you Hello Carol, welcome to ePluribus Unum, your
favorite podcast on your favorite show Pluribus.
Today we will be going over episode 9, The Girl
or the World. Before we do that, I want to say
hello to Josh. Josh, how are you doing? I'm doing
pretty good over here. Now, you just watched
this and you're still in shock right now, I think.
Am I right? In more ways than one, I think, yeah.
Well, good. I think that's fantastic. Let's hit
some of our housekeeping real quick. Of course,
we would love for anyone and everyone that's
listening to jump onto our Discord. Let's have
a little bit of discourse. Let's talk about these
episodes. Let's talk about our theories. And
now we can have a discussion about the season
as a whole. Secondly, we definitely want to encourage
you to listen to our other podcast, Dad, You're
Wrong, where a Gen X Dad and Millennial Son discuss
film philosophy and everything in between. If
you appreciate our podcast E Pluribus Unum, we
have a feeling you'll probably like it. Dad,
you're wrong. So please be sure to check that
out. And finally, I think we're going to do a
10th episode of E Pluribus Unum for a whole show.
Review and we may perhaps have a special guest
come on to that show Josh. What what are your
thoughts on that? Yeah, I would love to do a
sort of a recap season one episode and just kind
of give our thoughts on the season as a whole
and Get some opinions from a guest star or two.
I think that'll be a lot of fun. Yeah, I totally
agree with you. Well, that being said, we have
a pretty heavy -duty and in -depth episode that
we need to review today. This is the final episode
of season one, episode nine, entitled The Girl
or the World. Josh, what are your overall thoughts
on this episode? To quote a meme, a famous old
meme, my disappointment is immeasurable and my
day is ruined. No, I didn't feel that bad about
it, but I would say that I do have a pretty solid
air of disappointment around this episode. And
I would say as well that it's probably my least
favorite episode of this first season. Well,
now I'm starting to feel like this is an episode
of Dad, You're Wrong. I think it was an excellent
episode. I think it delivered exactly what I
had anticipated for the show and where we were
going to go. That's not to say I don't have a
little bit of disappointment, but I think maybe
in a different way. And I'm wondering, as we
have the conversation about the episode, if either
of us change our minds or alter our way of thinking
here. Well, with that being said, I think it's
well worth us just jumping right into this bad
boy. And we're taking a look at Pluribus, episode
nine. the girl or the world, and the very first
thing that we see is a really gorgeous blue sky
and another jet flying through the sky here.
Yeah, I enjoyed this cold open quite a bit as
we pick up with Kusa Mayu in Peru. As this plane's
coming in, she asks, is that it? And I think
by that point, we sort of knew what was going
down in this scene. But the way they lay it out
is so unnerving. He has done such a good job
of basically walking this line where it can either
be really unnerving or it can be very comforting.
Isn't that weird? What a weird dichotomy that
we have here. And she confesses she's been sweeping
this patch of dirt for the last half hour. So
she's obviously been thinking about this quite
a bit and Again, another actor whose face gives
us so much without having to say a single word.
The actor's name is Darinka Arones, who plays
Kusumayu. And she does such a great job. She
has such an emotive face. And her family are
saying, are you nervous? And she's, no, I'm not
nervous. I'm excited. The next shot, we see a
tall man. meet an airplane come in on a landing
strip and as they open the door we see this fairly
decent sized gray box that the person on the
plane hands to this tall Peruvian man we would
assume and he takes the box and puts it into
the back of this coyote. He jumps in to travel
down this dirt road where we assume he's probably
headed to Kusumayu's village. You have these
huts, you have a corral with animals, you have
a fire going, you have them singing. It seems
very much like a normal, natural situation here.
And we find out rather quickly that it actually
isn't. As we watch the people in the village,
we can see that they're tending to the fire,
making food, singing. and they start to collect
themselves into a group in the center of this
small village. She is actually sitting in the
corral with several animals and she has a goat
in her lap. But what I think they're trying to
show us here in this first scene is that maybe
she is a little bit on the fence about joining
her family and she is petting this animal, which
is something that the joined wouldn't do. even
though they do ask her about her feelings and
her thoughts, but they always try to say everything
will be fine, but won't hurt, and we just want
you to be happy as they always do. I want to
note though that one of her relatives, she has
an unnerving smirk on her face. Yeah. even more
so especially when Kusumayu isn't looking at
her directly. And it gives me that creepy feeling
of how much of an act this is or how manipulative
this is. To me, it was very much the villain
getting what they wanted by placating this person
in the short term. And that was the feeling that
I'd gotten from there. Their literal ritual,
I heard turning. So here's another thing I want
to bring up about the scene. We have the villagers
collect themselves in the center of the village,
and we essentially coax her out of the corral.
And she shuts the corral, by the way. Behind
her, everyone is dressed in reds and blues and
purples. And there is a, I'm gonna call it the
rainbow effect throughout this episode, but we
do get a lot of colors throughout the spectrum
through the entire episode. This episode isn't
yellow, blue, red. It's all of those things,
but I think it's important when we apply those
colors to each character. Her elder relative
there is wearing a red top and a purple skirt.
And as we know, blue and red make purple. And
I believe in your color theory that red, as we
saw in the last episode, indicates danger. I
would say or something along those lines, something
that's not good. It's a color that Vince has
used before in his series to indicate violence
or other highly negative things. And when you
mix red and blue and when you say that blue essentially
could be associated with the joint, that you
get that purple. And I believe in my mind that
signifies the conflict that we have with the
immune and the joined. And I think it further
signifies the conflict that Kusumayu has in her
decision to become joined. She's still a little
conflicted by it. You don't ask these questions
if you're excited. You just do the do. As the
villagers again come to the center of the village,
they also lay down a blanket right behind her.
They know how this thing is going to play out.
And the man arrives with the gray case and we
have a silver cylinder inside and when they crack
it open they put it toward her face and there's
a fog that comes out and we understand that she
needs to inhale this fog in order to instigate
the change into becoming one of the joined. She
takes a deep inhalation and her eyes roll back
in the back of her head and she begins to seize
and if you notice in this scene the moment that
her eyes roll back into the back of her head
everyone stops singing. The performance of the
ritual stops entirely once she's begun to turn
How much does that tell us about the joined again
about their performative nature that they have
now literally? recreated her village for her
only Including all the singing and the ritualistic
behavior and the food and the animals Just to
get to the point to where they can get her to
turn and the moment that that begins to happen
the facade falls away in the same way she falls
away into this blanket and goes into the seizure.
Once she has completed the seizure, another one
of the most unnerving scenes in this episode,
she gets the joined smile, and boy howdy, this
is a character we haven't really seen smile,
and now she has an all -knowing smile, and instantly
I was terrified. We pick up with Carol and Zosia
here as they're using some sort of satellite
feed to track Manousos as he's coming in in his
ambulance and it gives that same kind of slightly
comedic but also slightly sinister vibe to it.
We see Manousos pull up to Carol's cul -de -sac
and again we have another slightly comedic scene
where he's adjusting himself and tucking in his
shirt and He doesn't go up to the door and knock
on the door or ring the doorbell or anything
like that. He stays outside and he just honks
on the horn instead. And I thought that was pretty
funny and kind of part and parcel for Manusso's
character here. So Manusso honks his horn and
we get a really cool almost like Wild West standoff
as Carol comes out and we see these two characters
meet each other for the first time. There's a
really great pulled back establishing shot and
it really exemplifies the gap between them, right?
And we're going to see a gap between these two
characters throughout this episode. We get a
really great scene of them attempting to speak
each other's languages. and they don't seem to
meet in the middle while they're initially having
their conversation, which I thought really shows
where their relationship is going throughout
this episode. I was also saying it illustrates
how stubborn and hard -headed both of them are.
We've watched them individually as stubborn,
hard -headed people. We're like, yeah, that's
great. And now you put two stubborn, hard -headed
people in the same cul -de -sac together and
we get a completely different experience. We
really do. Yeah and to quite a bit of comedic
effect Manusos delivers his mantra. I am Manusos
Oviedo I am not one of them. I wish to save the
world and Carol doesn't take that as I thought
she might initially but she does decide to go
back in and grab her cell phone and she comes
out and she wants to utilize a translation app,
but Manusos definitely does not like the fact
that Carol is utilizing her phone. Oh, he's completely
put off by it. I do want to note as well the
number on the ambulance is 103, which is a prime
number and indivisible number with one of our
indivisible characters that we have here. Yeah,
when she breaks out the phone and tries to use
it as a translation device Manusos snatches it
out of her hand and exclaims that they can hear
us and they can hear our plan and they fumble
back and forth until Manusos comes up with the
brilliant idea apparently of dropping the phone
into the sewer grate there in front of Carol's
house what's funny again about the scene is that
the app is still working so as they argue the
app is continuing to translate And as Manousos
has to retrieve it from the sewer grate, it's
continuing to translate and it frustrates the
both of them as it continues to simply just do
its job. I love that so much as they are arguing
over the sewer grate and the app continues to
translate their argument to them back and forth.
And of course, Carol, in her Carol ways, tells
him to fuck right off and she storms back into
the house. You can see Manousos is disappointed
at this point and he wants to make amends. He'd
made this arduous journey to get here. He doesn't
want to fail because of a cell phone. I remember
seeing the bumper for This segment that they
used in the advertisement. It's so funny He has
a childlike reaction when he pulls it out of
the great like he's just won a prize from a game
at the fair and the next shot we see is the fish
-eye lens of the viewer in the door and He is
recording a message into the phone essentially
telling her Okay, you've won. We're not gonna
go into the ambulance and speak, and I won't
have my machete, but I'm not coming inside. I
would rather meet you out in the desert behind
your house, and I will have my umbrella. And
her reaction to the recording of him having his
umbrella was comedic shock at its best. And he
brings out a pink umbrella. And the reason he
brings out the umbrella is because he believes
that they are utilizing satellites to spy on
them, which they most certainly are. He's completely
right in this scene. Well, they've told him as
much, right? They said, if you ever need anything,
just wave to the sky and we're there. And they
have a conversation under the pink umbrella that
is vital to every single episode in this show.
I absolutely love that Menousos refers to the
joined as... these weirdos. I think that's such
an apt way and such a menusos way to approach
the hive mind. Yeah, he insists that they are
able to read lips from space. And he's not wrong.
You mentioned before about how they aren't omnipotent.
They aren't everywhere. So we should be able
to get away with a handful of conversations without
them absolutely knowing what we're talking about.
I agree with you 100%. I'm deeply considering
calling them weirdos from this point on rather
than the joined. I believe my comment from our
last episode was, I'm ready for you to bounce
out of the house so I can get back to my whiteboard
and continue to theorize about your weird ass.
So I do agree with Menusos 110%. What we discover
is Menusos... has a little bit of a different
perspective on the joint than Carol does. And
we also discover, or I did in this instance,
that Carol actually has a different perspective
on the joint than I believe she had. But he states
that if they can't fix them, they are better
off dead. And Carol insists that they are still
human, and she has to reiterate, they are not
evil. They won't even... hurt an ant. And Manusos
says something very interesting. He says, and
isn't it evil to value a man the same as an ant?
Amazing line. Love that. Great line from Manusos.
I don't know if I necessarily agree with it,
but it definitely helps to further define his
perspective. And Carol ends up using the same
words that were used against her in episode two
toward Manuso. She says, have you even tried
talking to them? You might learn a thing or two.
They can't lie. Did you know that? And he says,
these are the same weirdos that abandoned you,
right? And she says, yep, for 40 days. He's very
good at his questions. And we find out later
how good he is at his questions. But he asks
now, why did they come back? And Carol doesn't
answer him. She actually lies to him and says,
I don't know. And again, for me, another instance
where we find that Carol is siding with the joined
or with her relationship with the joined by lying
and saying, I don't know. I think it also indicates
her extreme sense of guilt about her relationship
with the joint by lying about this. And then
she changes the subject as the joint does. And
she says, why can't they pick an apple? She wants
to change the subject very quickly because she
doesn't want to talk about her intimacy with
the joint. And she finally gets frustrated and
she goes, this is el stupido. and she proceeds
to go inside. And this leads us to our next moment
where finally Menousos has caved and he's inside
the house, but he's also very adamant about searching
the house for any type of surveillance. Yeah,
and we have another great interaction between
Menousos and Carol as he's searching for bugs
and he begins snapping his fingers at her. And
of course, we know Carol by now. That's not gonna
work. I'm laughing just even thinking about that
scene because it's so funny. I think we all hoped
that when they came together that we were going
to get our super team, but it's very much not
that way. And it's much more realistic when you
have two stubborn people meeting for the first
time. As he's searching throughout the house,
another comedic scene, she asks, do you think
they bugged me? And he said, Insects? What do
insects have to do with this? Another great use
of language, of course, in this show. But he
continues searching and he gets to her liquor
cabinet. And boy, I wish I stayed at Carol's
house because she is stocked up, I tell you.
But he does indeed find a little device and it
was shot in such a fantastic way because a bottle
was obstructing it initially and he slightly
adjusts that bottle and the device comes into
view and I just love, love, love how that was
shot. Because not only do you see the bottle,
the device and Manusos, but you also see Carol
in the background as well. Again, wonderful cinematography
here. And he thinks he's found his prey here.
He thinks he's found that listening device and
he gives it to Carol. And what does she do instantly?
She falls back on her crutch of the weirdos,
the joined, and she instantly calls Zosia. Of
course we find out it was actually Helen all
along. This is something that we have talked
about throughout many episodes, the freezing
of Carol's eggs, all the way back to that cold
open where they were literally in a cold hotel.
I felt like they needed to reiterate that for
the big reveal later. I don't think it was much
of a reveal, but we do find out that it was not
a bug after all, and that it was placed by Helen.
But Carol leaves. Manusos in the desert and walks
through her backyard. We see Manusos sneak a
peek at Helen's grave. So it's another piece
of evidence that he's picking up, but he's also
very smart. He doesn't bring things up in the
moment. He holds onto them to bring them up later
and use them to the best of their ability. And
when he's rummaging through her house, trying
to find surveillance, He blocks her from going
to the bar at one moment, and she says, I don't
know how guests behave in Paraguay, but here
in Albuquerque, when you cock -block someone
from their booze, it's un grande mistakeo. And
I was like, goodness gracious, Carol. But this
scene is important because it shows... Apparently,
Carol has had a problem with drinking for a long
period of her life and so much so her partner
felt she needed to have a sensor in the liquor
cabinet to determine how often the liquor cabinet
was being opened when they were trying to harvest
her eggs. It's another instance where we see
Helen monitoring and managing Carol's life prior.
to the joining and these little things sneak
up on Carol after Helen's death here and then
they definitely haunt her and once they get to
a certain point in the conversation she simply
turns to Manusos and she says I'm tired we can
save the world manana and she snaps at him and
points to the door and he very clearly gets it
he smiles a little bit He puts his head down,
and then he very swiftly walks out the front
door. And it shows, in my opinion, respect, because
the moment earlier when he snapped at her, she
says, I don't speak snap. And I really like that,
because snapping has always been a thing of respect
in my life, that if anybody ever behaved that
way, even to a child. highly, highly disrespectful.
There's no reason to behave that way. You can
communicate, and he very clearly does. He turns
on the charm, he goes over to her, he very politely
asks her, may I have the phone, please, and he
smiles. And it's a little bit much, but it shows
that he is... capable of communicating in a respectful
way and that he's also willing to do so. He's
also a very task oriented character. It seems
like he's very much ready right now to get into
the nitty gritty and how do we solve this problem.
And the Carol that we're experiencing right now
is absolutely not. She is very comfortable in
her honeymoon mode with Zosia. So many of the
audience members were saying, I can't stand Carol.
Carol is so annoying. I never thought that throughout
the series. I was always on the side of Carol
and I enjoyed how she approached the world, even
though it was from a bit of a curmudgeon. Maybe
we're just two curmudgeons over here recording
this podcast. I identified with Carol so much,
right? That's hilarious. But this episode, this
is the one where I was like, I do not like Carol
in this moment. I do not like what Carol has
become now. And I think that is probably a bit
purposeful, but this first scene with Manusos
was the beginning of sort of my worries about
Carol. In our last podcast, I mentioned how I
had underestimated Carol time and time again,
but we find out at the end of the last episode,
they did win that charm offensive. And Carol
has bought into these weirdos. And that's where
my first disappointment with Carol had finally,
finally come. After they have their conversation
about the sensor found in the liquor cabinet,
Manousos asks her, who are you speaking to on
the phone? And she says, oh, the others, of course,
who else would I be talking to? She even says
at the end of the phone call was Zosia. I'll
call you back later. Yeah. It also shows how
much closer. she and Zosia have become and her
perspective on the relationship that she has
specifically with her Zosia. She takes Manousos
next door over to the Wilson's house and lets
him know that the house is fully stocked. You
have bed sheets. You have towels. You're ready
to go. And what do we get here? We get a classic
Manousos. We get a, you don't own this house.
I don't own this house. This is someone else's
house. I will not stay here. And then she says,
talk to me about that ambulance that you have
outside. And by the way, you're welcome. Yeah,
it shows some of the compromises that Manousos
has made. The entire episode up to this point
has been Manousos making compromises with Carol
in particular, just to achieve his goal. He still
has his end goal in mind and seemingly Carol
has lost her end goal. She's really drinking
the weirdos Kool -Aid. I really like saying the
weirdos instead of the joint. I'm fully bought
into that. And she has a really great carol line,
a little carol -ism, if you will. My vodka is
getting warm. You're welcome. And she also mentions,
if they return, I will get them back. Wouldn't
that be a good problem to have? Yeah. And the
next cut scene we have is... Once again, Carol
passed out on the couch. She has half a drink
in her hand, and she's awakened when she drops
that drink. I want to point out that we have
a loop playing in the background of the DVD menu
of Golden Girls, just to remind everyone once
again what a huge fan Carol and I are of Golden
Girls. And I thought that was pretty funny. That's
great. I love that. And what's funny is it's
just the first refrain of the song just repeated
over and over again. What we saw after she exited
the Wilson's house is that Manousos picks up
the phone and doesn't just ask for one of the
joint to come over and visit him. He says specifically,
I would like Zosia to come over and visit me.
And this is where Carol looks out the window
and sees Zosia's blue car parked in front of
Manny's house. and she runs directly over there
and bursts in through the front door. And again,
Ray and her facial expressions, we see this look
of surprise on her face, but not shock, just
almost pleasant surprise that it's Zosia and
Manny sitting on the couch, seemingly having
a innocuous conversation. I thought this was
so important. This is the first time. Menousos
throughout the entire season has ever sat down
and talked with one of the weirdos. And it's
not from a station of weakness. It's not from
a position of weakness. He would like to have
as much information so that they can continue
what he sees as their plan at this moment. Carol
essentially commands Zosia to return to the house.
And we returned back with Carol and Zosia and
Carol is having quite the fit. And again, this
just is the next step for me and my disappointment
in Carol. She has some really fantastic lines,
really possessive lines. When she's talking to
Zosia in this moment, she says things like, he's
just a stranger. You're my chaperone. You're
mine. And Zosia tries to reason with her and
saying, Listen, we love him as much as we love
you. And that hurts Carol to her core. That's
the first little rupture that we see in this
relationship. And she says, how, how can you
love this stranger as much as you love me? Because
she's become so possessive over Zosia to the
point where she's clouded herself in the fact
that she truly believes that. She has this relationship
with Zosia. It shows the depth of her delusion,
right? We've talked before about Lakshmi's delusion
with her family. We've talked about Kumba's delusion
with his fantasies. And now we have a carol who
began as the anti -hero or hero, the one against
the horde, the yellow jacket against the bees.
And we thought very strongly about that. And
we didn't think there... would be anything that
they could offer her that would make her change
her mind about who and what they are, until we
have the pirate queen come in here. This is another
one of the tremendous indications that Carol
has sold out to the joint. She is so deluded,
she honestly believes she's in a real relationship
with Zosia, and that Zosia is quote unquote hers.
And when Zosia says no, We love him equally and
she says no you can't he's a stranger you and
I have we you're mine you're my chaperone mine
and Again it very much like a child mine mine
mine Yeah, I feel the same disappointment that
you might be talking about, but I certainly don't
have disappointment in the episode, because the
arc is still there. And I think it is as strong
an episode as any other, but the disappointment
most certainly is in, we didn't think that Carol
would drink the Kool -Aid and fall for the ruse
of the joint. And as she pulls Zosia out of where
Manny is staying, we get to see on Manuso's face
our feelings toward Carol in this moment. And
he's looking at her with... disappointment and
disgust. You're sleeping with the enemy and I
know it and I'm disappointed and I'm disgusted.
And that's really great. I'm glad you picked
up on that because that's fantastic. When you
go back to look at the episode look at his face
because it's very much there And I'm not going
to say that it colors his view of Carol from
this point on it doesn't I don't think he's naturally
a judgy person anyway. He's a religious man He's
an honorable man seemingly from what we've seen
thus far Obviously the joint know more about
him than we do and they are quite put off by
him So we need to find out some more about his
past to have a better understanding, but he I
don't think holds it against her later, but in
that moment in the discovering that she has been
intimate with the joint, he is both disappointed
and disgusted. And as Carol rips Zosia out of
Manny's house, Manny immediately picks up the
phone and says this. How sinister is this on
his part? Send me another one. And I mean, not
another person, may I speak to someone? It's
a thing, send me another one. And I'm like, ooh,
that adds that creep factor to it. And when they
get back home, she starts to grill Zosia about
what exactly did you tell Manny. As Carol is
grilling Zosia, you can see the headlights of
the second. joined, pull up next door as they
flash through the shades of Carol's house. And
Zosia says, well, he's very good with his questions
and you know us, we're compelled to be honest
with him. And she goes, no, you're compelled
to be honest with me. So again, another pin to
drop in the cup of disappointment where Carol
truly believed that this was a unique relationship
she had with Zosia and that the joint had changed
in some strange way that allowed them to have
this unique little relationship when in actuality
Zosia probably had a very similar relationship
like this with Kumba when she was with him and
any of the other joint would with anyone else
in the same way. Carol. Wake up. They're performative.
They're not doing this on their behalf because
they want to. They're doing it for you. They're
doing it for Carol so that she feels all the
things that she wants to and needs to feel. And
this is just another crack in that facade of
the lie that she's been telling herself over
the last 12 to 14 days with Zosia. Now we have
the guilt and the things she didn't want to have
come out about her relationship with the joint.
And I think that should be also telling to her,
you shouldn't feel this guilt. You should be
more like Kumbha and be like, no, I love it.
I revel in it. I love being with these people.
But instead she has a tremendous amount of guilt
there. And I think that's her subconscious telling
her it's wrong to try and have this fake relationship
with Zosia. And this pulls us perfectly into
The next sequence as Zosia gets up and calmly
lays down on the ground and says something is
about to happen. And we discover later that she
says, he did warn us beforehand. So therefore
Zosia knew. And it takes Carol a moment to sort
of figure out what's going on. She's like, I
didn't do anything. And then she realizes, oh
no. but she does run back over to Manny's temporary
home and infiltrates what might be causing the
joint to have another seizure. We find Manusos
here with Rick and he's essentially experimenting
with them and we have one of our theories confirmed
finally and I was so happy about that. you know,
E. Pluribus Unum called that one pretty hard.
I'm going to say Josh nailed it. That's what
I'm going to say. Oh, okay. I'll take the credit.
I'll take it. Carol comes in and she is obviously
distraught by what has happened with Zosia. And
she even says, you don't know how many people
you just killed because she has no idea that
he gave them any sort of warning. but he runs
out back to his ambulance and he opens up his
backpack and pulls out the radio then he has
in there and he turns it to 8 .613. We hear that
there is very much something going on on that
frequency now. I think we have it confirmed that
specific frequency is likely what they're using
to communicate. That's likely the psychic glue
that holds them all together. And I think that's
going to be a pretty big weapon for our protagonist
as we move on into season two here. But as he
comes back in, we find that the seizures across
the weirdos has essentially ceased and Now, in
another fantastic comedic portion, and this is
one not only me but my partner laughed out loud
at, as Minuso sees him coming out of these seizures,
he bends over the couch that Rick is laying on
and just screams right into his face. Yeah, you're
adding comedy to a situation that's highly tense
and intense and... I honestly believe that because
Carol is so deluded in this moment. She can't
see what he's trying to do I would think that
the Carol even from the previous episode would
see oh you're trying something you're trying
to snap them out of it and it reminded me of
my theory from the last episode that Could it
possibly be Carol's love that would bring a character
out of the joined and back to their individual
state? And now we have Manny experimenting in
a way to say, is it this signal? Can I infiltrate
this signal in a way to get them maybe off of
the signal and bring them back? And you can hear
him. Try to be so compelling in Rick's ear to
come back. You know that this is the right thing.
I know that you're in there. Come back. It's
almost like you're speaking to a person who's
in a coma and you're just trying to convince
them to return to the conscious world and he's
doing his very best and you can clearly see the
8 .613 and there is some sort of sound or signal
or almost a voice coming across and I was hoping
now, because I'd mentioned in an earlier episode
of E Pluribus Unum, I want to see someone turned
from the joined to being immune. And what do
I get instead? I think, you know, Vince is rubbing
this in my face a little bit. We get someone
who was immune, who is now joined in the very
opening sequence. And I was hoping to get that
little bit of a twist here with Rick. But, you
know, Carol has has other thoughts. She does
indeed. We see that Carol did not go back for
Zosia. She went back for the shotgun. You have
him crouched over Rick, trying to compel him
to come back, and you just get this huge shotgun
blast, and you get this great angled shot of
Carol holding the shotgun, re -cocking it, and
saying, back away, now. And it was like she was
in an action film. I was like, yeah, let's go.
But once again, she's kind of fighting for the
wrong side here. She's so deluded and blind,
frankly, she can't see what he's trying to do.
But she's not clearly seeing that he is trying
to experiment with Rick to see if he can't get
him to turn. And he's not doing it violently.
He's not injecting him with anything. He's not
torturing him. He just... scared him significantly,
causing him to seize. He was even able to bring
him out of his seizure by bringing the ham radio
and playing the frequency from 8 .613. And it
was him yelling back in Rick's face that brought
Rick back into... That catatonic state or that
seizure state and I was fully ready for Rick
to come back and in fact I was dreaming of alternate
universe where it's actually Larry Lying on the
couch there and we would actually get Larry back
So another shout out to my true favorite character
Larry here But after she fires off the shotgun
and tells him to stop we get a quick break where
she goes back to Visit Zosia and bring her out
of her stupor. She lets her sit off and Carol
says can I get anything for you and she says
yeah can I have some water and I want to think
that water is also quite important in this show
because you can see just how exhausted Zosia
is from experiencing that seizure and I want
to think there might be something else going
on in that because she also sort of scarfs down
the water and Carol has to tell her slow down
it's okay. Want to think water has something
to do with it. I can't say for sure, but I do
want to throw that in there and Zosia also when
she awakens from her stupor, she doesn't say
can I have some water? She said could we have
some water so she's fully back into the joined
against my theory of the more that we dig into
her individuality and the more that Carol applies
love to Zosia that the real Zosia could and would
come back to us as an individual, but she does
say, I will be fine. And we hear the phone ring
in the background and she says, are you going
to answer that? And she goes, we both know who
that is. And eventually once she gets Zosia settled,
she does pick up the phone and she's like, uh
-huh. Yeah. Um, well, it wasn't me this time
and screw you too, Lakshmi. and hangs up the
phone. So we get to have a little Lakshmi joke
dropped in here before we conclude this season.
As our resident Lakshmi lover, I wish we got
to see a little bit more, honestly, of Lakshmi,
maybe see her in person. As soon as the phone
rang, we all knew who was calling over there.
Zosia tells Carol, you know what we have to do,
right? And we all know. what they have to do
at this point. They have to flee from Manusos
because he is utilizing their weakness against
them. So that's the only thing that they really
can do at this point. And Zosha even asked Carol
here, what have you done with Manusos? Where's
Manusos? And Carol says something like, Oh, don't
worry about him. He's in a, he's in a safe space
for right now. Then we find Manusos as she opens
up the trunk to her Rolls Royce. is in there.
Not only is he sitting in the trunk here, he's
got his arms crossed as if he is a disappointed
parent scolding his child or something like that.
I absolutely adored that. Another scene where
I laughed out loud. She does explain to him that,
well, now you've done it, so to speak. The joint
have now left the whole of Albuquerque. All of
the population has left. And he says, so what?
It was worth it. Now I know much more. You were
right. I think there is a way to put things back
in their place. Now the work begins. Again, vital,
few words here, but vital to the episode and
vital to the season as a whole. Fantastic line
from Menusos as the scene ends and we move into
act three and Carol is seemingly hopping in her
Rolls Royce to go and join. the joined, joined
the weirdos. And before she closes the door,
he says, do you want to save the world or get
the girl? And Carol closes the door and drives
away. That leads us to the title of our episode,
but it also shows how pertinent that line is
to the series as a whole. He sees that she has
fallen for The ways of the join he sees that
she's not the person that he saw in that video
30 plus days earlier and he understands it also
You do have a very clear choice here Do you want
to save the world or do you want to get the girl?
Because he can see how passionate she is about
our relationship with Zosia She still ignores
him. She gets in the car. She drives away. And
in the background, you even see that trail of
tail lights as the joined are leaving Albuquerque.
Yeah. So this leads us pretty well into act three.
I guess you can call it the honeymoon. This is
again, I think where my disappointment in Carol
really settled in. Um, there is a, a really fantastic.
part at the beginning that I loved though. I'll
say this. Zosia's in the, in a pool swimming
in some scenic location and Carol is reading
The Left Hand of Darkness by Ursula Le Guin.
This is such a fantastic sci -fi novel. It was
immaculate to me when I initially read it and
it goes in so well with this show, not only with
how the society is established within the Left
Hand of Darkness, but also the gender fluidity.
And it just shows how Ursula Le Guin is truly
decades ahead of her time. So I truly, truly
adored that portion. The Left Hand of Darkness,
published in 1969. It is a novel about a human
ambassador's complicated relationship with a
gender fluid alien species. and Carol is seeking
literary justification for her interspecies romance
with Zosia. I could see that being a very comforting
read, I think, for Carol in this time. But we
get pretty much a montage really of Carol and
Zosia having this wonderful honeymoon where they're
on beaches, they're going to ski resorts and
a really great little subtle portion here when
they hop off of the ski lift and it just ceases
to move at that point. It's really only there
for them. It's not only them, it's really only
there for Carol. You know, one visual detail
I want to point out in this montage scene, they
do exit that ski lift and when they do, they
do a close up on Zosia's ski boots and they are
locked together. That is essentially what we're
seeing with Zosia and Carol as they go on this
honeymoon. And as you mentioned before, we do
have the same type of color structure we saw
in the cold open. In fact, we have Zosia wearing
a red jacket and wearing blue pants, red and
blue, purple. We see Carol wearing red and blue
and later on we even see the color of her socks
are blue that go into sort of a pink as we had
seen before with Kusumayu falling back onto the
pink blanket and then the pink umbrella. that
Menousos and Carol use in the desert. So I think
what both purple and pink may signify on the
show here is the blending of either the faction
against the joined and the trepidation and doubt
they have about that relationship, and then also
the mixing of the immune and the joined, the
red. and the blue making that purple and we have
that blend. But what's significant is this. We
still have Zosia with a red jacket and blue pants.
We still have Carol draped and. of a blue with
the rainbow sock. So we don't have the full blend
into a solid purple where she has fully been
taken into the joint. And I think this scene
here at the chalet really clearly illustrates
that and really starts to ramp things up. And
this is where my disappointment started to wane
both with her diluted relationship that she has
with this person Zosia and we have a very important
conversation between Carol and Zosia not just
about the implications of their relationship
but the nature of the relationship and how this
pulls the scales away from Carol's eyes and the
truth is revealed that she has diluted herself.
And now she finds herself in the true reality
and the true nature of the relationship that
she has with Zosia and the joint. And she's truly
bought in to these weirdos. She has seemingly
almost gone the way of Kumba and I had taken
in that happiness, but of course things take
quite a turn as this conversation continues.
But man, the first thing that I thought of when
this conversation happened was, wow, did we nail
it on our episode where she goes to Las Vegas?
We are literally talking about how Kumba utilizes
the hive mind as his dopamine inducer. So much
of this episode was calling out a lot of our
theories that were correct in the end, and I
was incredibly happy about that. But this conversation
is fantastic. Absolutely. I would love to take
just a half a step back for just a moment. We
also get further insight into Carol herself as
a person. We get to see her bad side. Can I say
that? And as much as people may have not appreciated
her view on life before this, what we see in
this episode is the petulant child. We see the
spoiled person. We see the person who lies to
themselves. We see the person who compromises
themselves and compromises their, I don't want
to say morals, but their thought process in the
world that they're standing in. I think the reason
that the montage is so important is because it
lands on her sitting on the couch, seemingly
in utopia. She's had this marvelous experience
of traveling the world and going to these beautiful
places and spending this time with a person that
I believe she now loves. And she's sitting in
this chalet and guess what? She says, man, I'm
sorry. I am just not good at feeling good. It's
not even that she's discovered this for herself
in this moment She's always known this because
the questions she asks as she's in this utopian
Moment with her partner that she loves was there
somebody before me when you were not joined she's
not concerned with Zosia even or the Hive mind
she's concerned with another person that had
Zosia before she did jealousy and negative feelings
that I haven't seen in Carol yet, but they are
on full display in this episode, and I can see
why that rubs people the wrong way, but I think
it's vitally important that we do see the not
-so -good side of Carol, and frankly, the not
-so -good side of Manny as well. We've really
put him up on a pedestal, and in this episode,
we can see that he can go dark, but she can't
even enjoy this utopian moment with her partner.
Man, I'm sorry that I'm not... good at just feeling
good. And then she asks specifically, like she
wants to ask Google, what are those chemicals
that swim in my brain that make me feel this
way? And this is a double -sided coin here, too.
She's not only asking because she wants to know,
she's also helping to illustrate to the audience
what could potentially be the drug inside of
the joint that make them so darn happy. and them
so darn accepting of the situation because they're
swimming in serotonin and dopamine and oxytocin
and of course Zosia is very happy to jump into.
Fun fact. And I'm like, oh my gosh, we're back
to square one again, even after this long honeymoon.
And what does Zosia say? And it only gets better.
And Carol says better. You're not talking about
the joining, are you? And then she really gets
nervous. She immediately jumps from the joining
to, but you said, you can't stick this giant
needle in my ass and take my stem cells, right?
And it's so vital because it's another non -answer
from Zosia here. And even Carol calls it, Carol's
now seeing it. She's like, if you had an answer,
you would have told me immediately. And this
becomes the most important shot in this episode,
and I would hasten to say this is the most important
shot in the entire series because it's the only
time that it happens. The next shot is a Wes
Anderson, fully blocked, clear, straight, center
shot of Carol's face, of Ray Seehorn's face.
She's looking down, she looks up, directly into
the camera, and she says, My eggs. The ones I
froze with Helen. You have them, don't you? What
a gut punch. My heart just sank. This had to
happen. This had to happen at some point where
she finally has the revelation that this fantasy
she's in is not real. And here it is. And it
just hit her like a Mack truck. And Zosia says,
we do. So again, here's a excellent example of
how duplicitous and ignorant and evangelical
that the joint are that behind her back, they
would take her eggs and use them. You have to
destroy them essentially to create these stem
cells. And she talks about how difficult it is,
but they're willing to do that all the while,
while Zosia is courting her. and taking her around
the world. It was simultaneously disgusting and
shocking and irritating, but then it also, for
me, fully washed away the disappointment I had
in Carol because now our Carol is back. On initial
watch, the first half of the conversation I truly
adored. I loved it. I loved it. I loved it. And
then I think when it came to the quote unquote
Wes Anderson shot where she stares into the camera,
that was where it lost me a little bit. I thought
it was so on the nose, but quite honestly, hearing
you talk about it made me like it more. So I
think, yeah, you're right at the beginning of
our episode here. I am coming around a little
bit to lessen my disappointment a little bit.
I thought it was the most on the nose that this
series has been up until this episode. But now,
hearing you talking about it, I think it has
a point, right? Yeah, I mean, as Amy pointed
out in the cold, cold open, where we first learn
about her eggs being frozen, it wasn't a throwaway
line. There are no throwaway lines in this series.
And it definitely called back. And you're right,
as far as the on the nose stuff. But perhaps
for certain audience members, it's a really good
idea that we go to the liquor cabinet. We find
that there's a device there placed by Helen because
they were trying to harvest her eggs and she
was concerned about her drinking, hint, hint.
And we get back here. where it is confirmed that
the joint are experimenting on her eggs. And
they also confess in this conversation that at
that point, because of their stupid, and I'm
gonna just call it that, stupid biological imperative,
or the lie in their philosophy. Stupido, I think,
is what we're saying now. They're not going to
offer Carol the opportunity not to be joined.
She goes, how long do I have? And Zocha confesses
about a month, hopefully not more than two or
three, because she's so hopeful that she wants
to turn Carol. And in fact, Kusumayu's family
in the very opening sequence say, look how blue
the sky is. It's a very hopeful day. And it just
comes all the way back around. Their hope is...
domination. Their hope isn't joy or love or any
of these other things and here's where an extremely
important key line gets dropped. Carol says,
if you loved me you would not do this. So again
the the last thread of her belief in the true
love that she had was Zosha I think is broken
here when she says you told me you would leave
me alone I told you I didn't want to do this
and yet here you are doing it anyway if you loved
me you would not do this and What does Zosha
say she says understand we have to do this because
we love you because I love you. Oh you manipulative
bee You're gonna throw that one in there, and
that was it. You could see Ray Seehorn's face
and her expression just drop, and she was done
in that moment. If she could have gotten in her
Rolls Royce and driven away at that moment, she
totally would have, but the look on her face
is beyond priceless. She's finally realized she
had bought in or been fooled by the joint and
now can see past that, and she doesn't want it
any longer. The ending of that conversation is
just so heart -wrenching. If you loved me, you
would not do this. Oh my goodness, Ray, you did
it again. Oh boy. That one hit me pretty hard.
It's tough because we needed this journey to
happen, right? We needed this Carol positioning
herself with the joined and coming back to what
I consider our side or the good guy's side or
Manuso's side. Well, I love it when we can change
each other's minds because we do have other episodes
where you'll bring something up and either I
didn't catch that or you've convinced me otherwise.
I'll go back all the way to the Soylent Green
issue and how we have to change our line of thinking
in the way that we see things. Honestly, I'm
glad because the last thing that anybody wants
to do is be nine episodes invested into a show,
watch the final episode and go, oh, I am left
with a bad taste in my mouth. If this were the
penultimate episode, I would be very happy with
it. But to leave us on an episode where the conclusion
is Carol going back to where she's always been
was a disappointment for me. We had this series
launch not with one episode, but with two. He
wanted to work really hard to lay the groundwork
for This show and in fact not once but twice
they speed up the release of two episodes When
we take these last two episodes that in my opinion
are actually married I'm going to say that episode
eight and nine are one episode The first episode
is the persuasive episode it is the tantalizing
episode it is the one where we've dangled enough
carrots in front of Carol, in order to get her
to come our way, and even at the very end when
it seems like she might slip away, they use their
final weapon, which is Zosia. That's the first
half of the episode. The second half is the quintessential
hero's story. What does the hero first do when
brought to a challenge? They say no. I'm not
going to leave the village and slay the dragon.
This is the second half of that for Carol where
she has said, you know what? No, if Kumba can
do it and Lakshmi can do it and I can find comfort
in it, whether playing golf alone or having what
could seem to be a real relationship with this
person, Zosia, then I'm going to do that. And
why not? you know prior to that she was abused
where she was left alone for 40 days and that
punishment was so severe on her it literally
brought out the worst in carol the jealousy the
anger the guilt and Through that, she now discovers
that the path she had taken with Zosia was the
wrong path for all of the wrong reasons. And
so she needed that catharsis. She needed, as
I think you mentioned earlier, actually, she
needed to go through this second version of the
gauntlet in order for her to firmly land on her
feet and have no doubt. about the direction that
she's going. She can't have her mind clouded
with the dreams of having a relationship with
Zosia and fight the joined at the same time.
And this really solidified it when they went
behind her back and stole her eggs in order to
force her to become a joined, even though they
said they wouldn't do either. We're not even
just talking about physical pain. Even the family
at the beginning in the cold open says we would
never hurt you You are though and it doesn't
have to be physical in order for it to hurt and
in fact in some ways This is worse than if you
would have chopped off Carol's arm You've taken
her on this whirlwind of what she believed would
be a really beautiful future for her and thrown
it in the garbage because you were actually lying
the entire time. So I think these two episodes
are actually married together as one episode.
Her full arc of her accepting the world she's
in, finding solace and perhaps love and partnership,
only to find out in the end that it was all fake.
And that she now has to more firmly land on her
feet now without any doubt whatsoever and move
forward with Manusos. I agree with a lot of your
points here. My still biggest disappointment
with this episode is I knew how it was going
to end. By the end of this episode, we got to
where I wanted to be at the beginning of this
episode and to leave us on Exactly where I expected
us to start is the biggest disappointment for
me. And the quote unquote big reveal, I'm doubling
up on the quotes here of the egg theory. It was
so foreshadowed that to have that as the big
reveal to bring Carol back to our side was disappointing
to me. It was one step back and one step forward.
I'm wondering if they just wanted to use this
as the episode to provide these confirmations.
I wouldn't say that it's a big reveal in any...
Way, I would say they're more big confirmations
and a confirmation as you noted earlier is extremely
satisfying So I think he wanted to provide that
to the audience as broadly as possible So that
they would be willing to wait until August of
2027 before the next episode drops But I think
the very end is important, and I think the very
end does end in a great way. I had a smile on
my face as we wrap this episode up. In Act 5,
74 days, 18 hours, 30 minutes, and 22 seconds
is our time stamp. Menousos is doing research
on electronics, magnetic fields, circuits, and
even crystallography. I remember watching this
a particular scene and saying, I can't believe
how difficult that is. How he's reading these
very intricate and in -depth English versions
of these books and having to translate them as
well when he can't figure out the exact words.
It just shows the dedication of Manusos. I absolutely
love that. I want to point this out. The lights
over the living room or the main room in this
house are in a circular loop like pattern, like
a DNA sequence. I love that little detail that
they add into the set design is absolutely wonderful.
And he looks up specifically the term loop in
the dictionary and finds that circuit or circuito
is the translation. And as he's having this realization,
he sees this red helicopter. pull up outside.
Does a helicopter pull up? I don't know. I don't
know what they do. They will allow it. Yeah.
But they're carrying a large storage case, which
they drop into the cul -de -sac. And we see as
the helicopter lands, it's piloted by Zosia.
And there's a whole conversation that happens
just between these two actors, glances that is
again, just immaculate. The casting on this show
is so far and above anything else that's out
there on TV, quite honestly. It's pitch perfect,
even with any of the supporting actors, without
a doubt. It's one of the reasons I love this
show so much, and one of the reasons I can talk
for two hours about every episode that is only
45 minutes, is because of these performances.
And the way it's shot also, we have the intimate...
a conversation without words between Zosia and
Carol. I believe on Carol's face alone, we see
sadness, longing, disappointment, betrayal, but
there's still a love there. And they just hold
that pose. When Manousos walks up to her, she's
literally answering the question that he had
asked when she left before her honeymoon, we'll
call it. And she very flatly says, you win, we
save the world. And I would say she was emphatic
in her response. She wasn't saying it like, well,
okay, you win, we're gonna save the world. She
was like, no, you win, we save the world. And
I love that he uses her full name whenever he
speaks. Carol Sterka, what is this? And she simply
says, atom bomb, as we know, is a reference to
a previous conversation we had with The Joined
where they said they would literally give her
an atom bomb if she asked for it. We get this
really beautiful pull away from the camera overhead,
and we have a really beautiful jump into a perfect
ending song for this episode. And the screen
goes black. I think she's fully back now, and
I thought it was a perfect way to end the season.
Yeah, I think it was a good way to end the season.
On first watching, I was very disappointed. In
talking with you, I'm a little less disappointed.
While there was a lot that I loved, there was
just as much that I disliked in this episode.
Um, but overall I would still give this a satisfactory
score. I still adored the show and I still respect
the writing and directing team for what they
gave us. And I absolutely will be there. in season
two, episode one, and hungrily, I would say.
Well, I'm gonna hold tight to my overall thoughts
on the episode. I think it's as strong as any
other episode. If not more, I believe that if
we have any on -the -nose writing from this team,
it's just to ensure that some members of the
audience are still able to keep up with the show
without falling to the wayside. Kudos to Pluribus
season one. I think it's a marvelous show. It
holds its own against shows like Severance or
any other mystery box styled show. It holds its
own against anything else Vince Gilligan has
made. And yes, that does include the Lone Gunman
series that we all adore. Quite deeply. So thanks
to Vince and his team. Thanks to Ray Congratulations
on your nomination. I believe you're going to
win as much as I love Severance and the nominations
they've received I think you you have sealed
the deal for me here. We have some really wonderful
Easter eggs throughout the episode We had the
magician's posters in the Wilson home. I think
these allude to themes of illusion and misdirection
as we had seen in the prior episode. It was awesome
to come back to that 8 .613 frequency and see
that it does have some weight. I love all of
the literary references throughout the series,
including the left hand of darkness here in this
episode. I think it's important that we still
pay attention to the color theory that we have
throughout Purovus and see how it plays out.
I love that Carol did not go full purple on us
and I do think that pink is actually a transformation
color. We saw it with Kusumayu laying on the
pink blanket at the beginning and we see it in
the end with Carol's pink tinge socks as she
discovers the truth of her relationship with
Zosia. We do have some marvelous unresolved threads
here. You know, what, if anything, Carol can
do with a nuclear bomb, if it is that at all.
Whether Menusso's frequency disruption can actually
restore any of our humans. And what is the nature
of the alien signal from Kepler 600 light years
away? And what is their true intent? We have
a lot of questions here left open. The show still
sits at a 98%. Overall Rotten Tomatoes score,
most everybody's loving it. I noticed that the
audience score actually kind of hovers around
our favorite score from Dad, You're Wrong. It's
at 68%. Usually if it's 64%, it's gonna be a
pretty darn good movie. So maybe we can apply
that to Pluribus here. I'm extremely excited
to sit down with Josh and our special guest to
record. our 10th episode, which will be an overview
of Pluribus in its entirety. Yes, it probably
will be a little bit longer than some of our
episodes, but if you've been listening thus far,
I think you'd probably enjoy it. Josh, do you
have any closing thoughts, words, or any housekeeping
before we bounce out of here and start talking
about episode 10? I think I just want to close
it by thanking everyone across the globe that
has listened to E -Player Basunam. It has been
the highlight, not only of recapping this excellent
TV show, but just having an audience that would
join us in that. So I want to add, please hop
in our Discord and chat with us. We would love
to chat with you guys about some theories on
season two as it comes up. And if you guys have
any ideas on our series recap, of episode 10,
please add in on that as well. On top of that,
we'd also encourage you to listen to our Dad
Your Wrong podcast where a Gen X dad and millennial
son discuss film. philosophy and everything in
between. Once again, on behalf of Josh and myself,
thank you all so much for listening to E Pluribus
Unum. This has been our ninth episode covering
Pluribus episode nine, the world or the girl.
We do look forward to seeing you guys next week
as we go through episode 10, the full recap of
Pluribus. And we sincerely hope that everyone
has a wonderful end to their year. Thank you
again.