Hello, Carol. This is ePluribus Unum, where we
dive deeper into the hive mind. This is your
favorite podcast about the show Pluribus with
Eric and Josh. Today we're talking about episode
8, Charm Offensive. Before we jump into the episode,
a couple items of housekeeping here. If you guys
would like, please join us on our ePluribus Unum
Discord, where we're putting all our newest theories
out there. I think after this episode, we'll
have quite a few new theories and quite a few
questions answered. I have to recommend our other
podcast, Dad, You're Wrong, where a Gen X dad
and millennial son discuss everything from philosophy
to film and everything in between. We have a
wonderful time on that show and we cover some
really interesting subjects. So if you do appreciate
our E Pluribus Unum Pluribus show, I think you'll
probably appreciate Dad, You're Wrong. even though
I don't necessarily appreciate it because apparently
I'm wrong a lot. So I'm told. Yeah, absolutely.
And we're going to have a great episode coming
up, our big end of the year top ten lists as
well. And we have a couple really cool special
guests joining us on that one. So keep an eye
out for that. You know, I would also have to
add something special for us. We started this
show just a month ago and we had nothing behind
it necessarily, just the two of us coming up
with the idea that we wanted to recap a show
that we really enjoyed and we hope to share thoughts
and opinions and theories with other people.
We just want to thank everybody from literally
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to us over the last month. We've grown from no
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is you are Lord Cthulhu, so please jump in. We
would like to hear from you. Well, I think that
takes care of that we can go ahead and jump into
this episode. Do you have any initial thoughts
on this one? Marvelous episode overall it looked
like to me it was almost mirroring the previous
episode in its structure we had Carol begin the
last episode and we had Manusos in the center
and then Carol ended the episode and on this
one it is the opposite but as far as the the
story, craft, and the reveals, and the performances,
just another fantastic episode. Yeah, I agree.
I really like the title of the episode being
Charm Offensive, and I initially thought that
it was going to be Carol's charm offensive, and
she was going to try a new route into the Hive
Mind, which she does, but it's very much a charm
offensive from the Hive Mind as well. And they
sure do weaponize that pretty effectively, I
think, throughout this episode. I'll have to
agree with you. I think it's a double -sided
coin here. I think both parties are trying to
be charming in order to get what they want out
of the other. And we do start off with a blurry
vision of what seems to be blood dripping on
what could be a hospital floor. And I want to
note in the slow motion dripping of the blood
here that the first drop looked like the Petri
dish that they've been using for the promotion
and the Petri dish that we use for the cover
of our podcast. And we get to see our buddy Manny
and he's lying on the bed there on his chest
and he is just waking up seemingly from whatever
may have happened prior to that. And we find
out through one of the joint who's attempting
to converse with him here that he did indeed
have an infection from the aptly named porcupine
trees that we coined last episode, but it is
responding to antibiotics. So he is on the mend.
And you could tell just by how Menousos wakes
up that he is unhappy to be taken care of by
the joined. in this hospital. It looks almost
as if he feels like he's been taken advantage
of by them forcefully healing him. And I really
love the shot of Manousos in the bed highlighting
the scalpel. And it made me wonder because of
the look on his face, because the look on his
face was pure anger. And you see the scalpel
and you're like, man, are you going there? But
luckily he doesn't. He again just illustrates
his honor. by, if you can, in a way of holding
a knife to someone's neck, to say, no, I just
want out of here. I also want to note the way
the either surgeon or nurse is speaking to him.
Again, it's very much the, I would say, saccharine
way that the joint can speak to people. And in
typical Manusso's fashion, he rolls up to the
nurse's station and says, I need you to give
me a bill. When it comes to Manusos being that
honorable, righteous man, he is still going to
be paying his hospital bill and ambulance. I
adore that portion. It's just so part and parcel
with the mani that we've come to love here. As
far as the color theory, I want to ponder this
a little bit, but we see a lot of red and a lot
of mention of red in this episode, not only with
the blood, but also the red marker in which he
writes this IOU for his hospital bill. We also
discovered that he is in Panama now. So they
not only helped him out of the gap, but they
helped him on his journey a little bit. And I
don't know if this is part of their wanting to
please him or if it is something else. And another
note about red, all the signage around him is
red. As he exits the hospital, All of the lighting
is red in the emergency entrance and exit, and
he jumps into a yellow ambulance. It makes me
wonder if this new introduction of red in this
episode is almost signifying the upcoming conflict
between our individuals and the joined. And I
could also see it as our individuals As they
are approaching the conflict, maybe our yellow
has shifted into a more aggressive red as well.
I think he's waited until now to introduce this
color so that it has that tremendous impact.
We have so many marvelous shots of cinematography
and so many marvelous shots of the thing in the
foreground is not as important as the thing in
the background that's a little bit blurry. But
after this, we get a chance to jump on over to
Carol. who as we know in the previous episode
had so heartfully embraced Zosia. And now apparently
she has invited her in to have some lemonade.
Yeah, and even that lemonade is sort of a red
pink color. She's very formal almost and very
nice to Zosia. even asking, oh, is it too sweet?
It's a very stilted conversation at the beginning.
It seems as if not only Carol, but the joined
are also having trouble reestablishing this relationship
and having an awkward moment. And we have a fairly
pertinent conversation specifically about the
painting that Carol had stolen from the Georgia
O 'Keefe Museum last episode in the Belladonna.
But did she steal it? I mean, you can't steal
anything anymore. Nobody owns anything anymore,
so you can do whatever you want as Kumba has
so clearly illustrated. I think it is pretty
funny the awkwardness that they have there. She
also ends up saying, which kind of breaks the
ice, I don't really know what to say. I really
don't know what to talk about. And I think that
that's important because when you kind of confess
that in an awkward situation, it does break the
ice. And now you realize, you know what? We're
both kind of awkward here. Now let's try to open
things up. But she does compliment her on the
painting. And Carol sort of plays it back. She's
like, oh, you know, I was going to take that
back. It's as though she realizes that they're...
is and will be a world after this, and that means
that this picture needs to go back to the museum,
and it really isn't hers. She says, I just wanted
to protect the image, you know, give it a safe
place. I didn't want any roaming animals to infiltrate
the museum. And then she jokes later, well, you
don't want a buffalo eating the Mona Lisa. We
even get a little laugh from Zosia. as well.
And throughout this episode, we really see Zosia
act a little bit more individually with things
like laughing and being comedic herself at the
same time. It's huge. I gotta say it's huge.
It's a stark difference from what we've seen
in the past from The Joined. And I think that
plays into the performative nature of The Joined.
And sometimes they lay it on so thick, but it
almost seems as if they're learning to pull it
back just a little bit for Carol, but they still
are making mistakes. I don't think they've learned
any lesson in the way that they should interact
with the immune. And it's played out to the nth
degree in this episode. So they are still socially
stupid. I don't know what else to call it. Because
it's not socially awkward, it's socially ignorant.
Even though, as she points out several times,
you are the collective of so many human beings
that have so much knowledge, how come you can't?
And this also begins the break in the, do they
know everything? And I love how we get to see
some cracks sort of break open in that. But as
they break their sort of awkward nature, Zosia
says, well, how about we play a game? And I think
my favorite part of sifting through the games
is Carol comes across risk. And she goes, oh,
world domination. That's hilarious. There's a
subtle portion of this where. She says, Oh, what
about chess? And she says, Oh, of course not.
They have all the greatest grand masters of chess.
So she doesn't want to play that. And Zosia says,
well, you're also missing your white rook, but
we can get another one for you. And this just
shows that they're subtly going against Carol's
wishes and utilizing Helen's consciousness. Cause
who else would know that she is missing a white
rook in her chess set, but Helen. It feels like
a child that's testing their limits, you know
She seems to be kind of going here on her own.
How deeply can we go? How much of this can we
use? Also again, it points out their lack of
social awareness that they honestly shouldn't
be bringing up the fact that she's missing a
rook They shouldn't be bringing up the fact that
there are certain games that Carol loved as a
child It's red flag after red flag, but you know,
Zocha at this point says well What about the
game you used to play with your cousins back
in the day? And this seems to be a perfect fit.
It's a good, direct, simple game. It's a game
that Carol hasn't played since she was a kid.
And it gets them to the point to where they're
sitting across from the table from each other,
and they're playing a game called Spit. What
a great name for a card game. I personally have
never heard of a game called Spit. But it reminded
me at least of a game I used to play as a kid.
We called it War. This is the scene I was mentioning
where we hear the color red again. When they
originally played this game, her and her cousins
as children, her Nana had a red deck and a blue
deck. And Nana says, be sure to put all the cards
in the right boxes, meaning not to mix those
blue cards and red cards into the wrong boxes.
I want to point out something in this card playing
scene. And that is the intimacy that builds between
Zosia and Carol here. In fact, one of the first
things we see is one of them slapping their hand
on top of the others. And so this is not only
a card game where you just sit across the table
from each other, but they're touching each other.
And neither of them seem to be put off by that.
And it almost is... and olive branch from the
both of them that says, okay, I'm willing to
be in the same room with you. I'm willing to
play games with you. I'm willing to touch you.
Zosia even asked her at one point, you haven't
seen your cousins since 2005, would you like
to see them? And Carol aptly points out, that
would be exactly like talking to you, right?
And this is... The first of Zosha's non -answer
answers, and she simply just shrugs her shoulders
and says, yes. But I start to wonder as we move
on through this episode if that's necessarily
true. And it brings up a sort of a philosophical
question. If individuals are part of the collective,
do they lose their personal inclination to reach
out to other individuals? Does her cousin now
not? Is he not concerned with wanting to go see
Carol at any given point, because now he's part
of this collective, or does he still have that
individual draw to still want to do individual
things? Do we still have a sense of that individuality
in all of us, and can we pull from that? And
she ends it in such a great Carol way, right,
as Zosia wins this round of spit. Carol gathers
up the cards and says, it's like playing cards
with fucking Google. Yeah, because Zosia can't
help herself from dropping the little information
bombs. But you know, Carol stepped in it herself.
She was asking for the origin of the name spit
for this particular game. Zosia can't answer
the question. Even in the collective, not everyone
on the planet has a collective understanding
of where the origin of the name Spit came for
this game. And as much as we think they do know
everything, they actually don't. Yeah, they're
not omnipotent by any means. But I think that
leads us into the next scene here, and it is
with Zosia and Carol as they're overlooking Albuquerque.
And you can see the city in the distance. And
we find out that the joined are indeed returning
en masse to Albuquerque. And at this point, Carol
poses a question, and I think this is something
you and I had been wondering throughout the series,
is where do you live? We soon find that out in
the next scene as Osha says, do you want me to
show you? And she even uses sort of this colloquialism.
She says, wherever we hang our hat is where we
stay. And that's such a human thing to say to
me. She's also smart to say, would you like to
see? As she takes her to the local stadium, we
see a good amount of joined creating a communal
bed that they're all laying in. And we see all
of them taking their clothes off and getting
ready for bed. But another thing that is freaking
weird, none of this in any way, shape or form
looks comfortable at all. Why not have beds?
Why not have bed covers? Why not have comfort
for the human body so that it can sleep well
and sleep in good health? It's almost like a
prison camp or something we've recently dealt
with in the United States here in Florida, but
voluntarily. And it felt very creepy to me. But
Carol finds comfort in it. You see her actually
relax and her shoulders drop. after she is introduced
to probably your favorite character of the episode
minus Menousos, which would be Bear Jordan, this
border collie. He rolls up and she asks specifically,
this dog is not one of you, is it? And Zosia
answers, no, definitely not. She didn't hesitate,
she didn't non -answer. She leapt in there, no,
definitely not. And not only that, she said it
in a way of almost like down, like, oh no, no,
not animals. Or that's how I caught it. So I
thought that was really important. And then she
says, I didn't realize you kept pets. And then
again, very emphatically, we don't. And then
nices it up. We take care of the animals that
are still attached to their former owners. And
it does answer some heavy duty questions. And
there's one particular line in this scene that
I want to bring up before we move on. Zosia mentions
that the reason that they have this sort of communal
cuddle puddle, we'll call it. That's what Carol
calls it. Is because it saves on resources if
they all sleep together. It's much easier to
heat one large room as opposed to a bunch of
small rooms. And there's actually a very subtle
portion coming up here in the second act, where
I think they give us an answer on why the joined
are so adamant about saving resources, specifically
saving energy. Yeah, that's a big one. Well,
at this point, we have Zosia asking, would you
like to stay with us tonight? And I adore Carol's
reaction, because it's what she really wanted
to hear from Kumbha in Vegas. Wouldn't you like
to stay here with me? You can have your own place.
But instead we have Zosia, and seemingly the
charm is cranked up to 101. Would you like to
stay with us tonight? Knowing that is it exactly
what Carol would want or would like. And Carol
fights it for what she can, but the next shot
is us very close to Carol asleep. And it looks
like she could be at home, but as we pull back,
she's in the middle of the cuddle puddle. and
she has her arm draped over Zosia. And as she
wakes up, she pulls her arm away from Zosia,
sort of in shock, but we all know why. You know,
she's desperately missed the touch of another
human being and maybe even specifically in a
specialty, Zosia. And she lays back and just
sort of stares into space for a moment. The next
scene, we are returning to Carol's house and
even outside in the car, as she's dropping her
off, Zosia says, that she's had a nice time and
Carol actually admits to Zosia that she had a
nice time as well. And it seemed to me almost
as if Carol was begrudgingly admitting that she
indeed had a nice time being with the joint.
Yeah, I kind of saw it as that, but I also saw
it as, you know, sometimes when you just react
and it just comes out without you having thought
about it first. I think she almost wanted to
say it right after Zosia said, we had a very
good time, we're glad to be back. And she didn't,
she stopped herself. And then she couldn't the
second time around. And she's almost like a little
kid. She goes, I had a nice time too. And she
runs into the house. It was a sweet moment. Also,
even though you do have these two offenses going
toward each other, again, just like the hug and
any other honest. contact that Carol has with
Zosia or the joint, I believe it's real. It's
true. And I feel her desperation of wanting to
not only alleviate the loneliness, but also to
have a companion. This gets us back over to one
of my favorite rooms in the house, which is her
office and her whiteboard. And we see Carol add
a number six to her list of things that that
she knows about the joined and She very emphatically
writes. They eat people almost as if Maybe she
did have a nice time with Zosia yesterday, but
she wanted to remind herself and reiterate to
herself that This is wrong. I can't succumb to
this charm offensive that they're putting on
me To me this really proves that Carol wasn't
defeated in the last episode, as I had presumed.
And you were very much right in our last conversation
that this might just be the next step in our
plan that she's enacting. And note also that
the color of her marker is purple. Oh. Interesting.
Yeah. I like following up with your color theory.
It makes me very happy. I like it a lot. She
definitely underlines people, and she puts a
period after every word. This leads to a scene
that you would think might be fairly innocuous,
but it's not. Carol and Zosia go on a hike. I
really, really love this scene as Zosia and Carol
are taking a hike up to a plateau and we get
a really great view of the desert surrounding
Albuquerque. But in the background, we see an
incredibly long train and it brings up a great
conversation. Again, emphasizing that the joined
are not omnipotent. And she says something about
how she always loved the sound of a train horn.
She literally says, man, I love trains. There's
just something about the sound of a train horn,
you know? And I'm going to say this is Carol
being calculative. and that she never loved trains,
she never loved the sound of a train horn, and
she's trolling. Because look at Zosia's response.
Zosia looks at her like this is new information.
Here we have another moment where the joined
supposedly don't know something or everything.
And I think this is Carol doing this on purpose.
I don't think she had any affiliation to trains
because if she did at any point in her life,
they would know. So it would be impossible for
them not to know even when she was a child through
Nana and her cousins or the kids next door or
Helen or anybody else. I feel like she's trolling
them. And they're very shocked. What? Hold on
a second. We didn't know that. And she's like,
oh, I thought you knew everything about me. And
she says, not this, very specifically, not this.
That doesn't make her line of, it is the loneliest
sound in the world, not land any harder. That
is her. She is that train whistle. She understands
the depth of loneliness. And it does encapsulate
Carol's experience. And when we hear the train
horn in the background, Carol asks Zosia, how
do you do that? Zosia responds, something to
do with the body's electromagnetic field, our
natural electric charge, so to speak. You have
one too, just unused. And Carol asks, so like
radio? And Zosia responds, sort of, but radio
transmission is like talking. It's conscious.
Our communication is unconscious. homeostatic,
like breathing. There's still a lot we don't
understand. We're going to have to unpack this
one, I think, a little bit here. But the first
thing that came to mind for me was it might have
possibly debunked my theory previously about
Manousos sifting through the radio signals, and
there was the one radio signal in use that was,
you had mentioned, sort of in between signals
or in between bandwidths. So is that not how
they communicate or is that still a possibility
for us? It brings up a lot of questions and a
lot of potential theories here. Well, I like
how she equals radio transmission to a physical
form and in the way they communicate with each
other is unconscious. I still like your idea
where you said. This isn't magic. There's a scientific
answer as to how they're able to communicate
with each other I also like referring back to
previous comments She doesn't really answer the
question here and it actually provides us with
more questions than answers Yeah, I could very
much see this information that she's getting
specifically in this scene to be used as a weapon
for our quote unquote good guys in Carol and
Manousos. Absolutely. And I think bringing what
Manousos has learned with studying the radio
waves with Carol's knowledge as well can really
get us to some sort of conclusion. And I don't
doubt that we'll see something along those lines.
Well, and I'd like to support your concept of
the 8 .613 ham radio signal. as being the signal
that they are communicating on. We didn't go
through him channeling through all of these stations
for nothing. There has to be something there.
He's not going to do that to us. And this conversation
is sort of incapped by the question from Carol,
why do you guys still need trains? And after
a moment of hesitation, Zosia responds, food
distribution. And that genial conversation that
they've had is now broken. They fall into tension
at that moment. It is the subject for which we
will not speak. Right? Just like when a couple
are having a fight and they don't want to talk
about the thing that caused the fight, and you
just kind of casually go on, is cannibalism.
And I struggle with what happens later in the
episode on Carol's behalf a little bit, not a
lot, a little bit, because for some folks, this
would be a non -negotiable. I can't be with a
person who is technically accountable, okay,
for one. For two, how connected is this joined
person in front of me to the collective when
I'm with them and how they feel and experience
what they're feeling with me in this moment outwardly
to the other joined. And actually that's a wonderful
segue into the next sequence. Yeah, so we pick
up with Carol and Zosia as they're at a spa getting
massage. Carol asks Zosia, does this feel good
to you? Is the whole world getting a massage
right now? And Zosia responds, not exactly. It's
kind of like in the last 10 minutes, there's
been 1674 deaths and 965 births. To feel everything
at once would be unbearable, but we know it as
it happens. It's such a haunting portion when
she adds, we're aware that you just got goosebumps
and the goosebumps that she felt learning that
information at the same time, just absolutely
wonderful. Well, and she caps it off with having
said that this massage feels good. So again,
it's this thing where we get just enough information
in an eloquent and succinct way, but also she
non -answers the question. Zosia says, to feel
everything all at once would be unbearable. That
line alone is key because it goes back to what
Joe was saying in the last episode. Can we surf
people? Or, and moreover, my question to Joe
at the moment was, can we turn off or opt out
of people so that I don't have to be in the hot
tub with Kumba or I can be the surgeon or pilot.
If feeling everything is overwhelming, there
has to be a governor somewhere that they have
control over. And I think this is important in
a conversation the two characters have later,
and I want to link this thought to that. The
idea that you can either surf or opt out or turn
off other joined. so that you aren't in an unbearable
state. It also seems like they have almost an
alarm system, and we've seen it before, and we
see it here, where she says, you know, this many
deaths, this many births, oh, this man just fell
on a fence. And she felt that in that moment.
It was almost like, alarm, this man fell, and
oh, okay, he'll be okay, no vitals. They need
to flesh that out more. because it could make
more sense as to who is in the hot tub with Kumba
or who is flying the plane and how important
that is and how much of you being more finite
with your exercise in that person's skill or
knowledge makes you further away from the joined
or individual in some kind of an interesting
way. They're really good to put it in your face
about how much they know. Well, you can do that,
but can you do the opposite of that? Can you
get finite down to one singular character? And
then is that something that Carol can use and
in her way, for whatever reason that she's different,
that is a way to flip that person out of the
joined. We like to call them stupid theories.
Here's a stupid theory for you. Wouldn't it be
cool? If it's not necessarily Carol's blood or
DNA that they extract in order to create an antidote
to bring people back around, but what if it is,
and I'm going to point back to the Rolls Royce
and the love balloons from the last episode,
Carol and her true love for this humanoid in
front of her that forces them out of the collective
and back into their individual state. I love
that. That's great. That's an apt word to use
for how I feel about that theory as well. This
episode is such a hydra, right? As soon as they
answer one question and you lop one head off,
two more pop up right behind it. So I really
enjoy that about this episode. It's simultaneously
thrilling and... exhausting Especially for us.
Yeah, we got to talk about it, right? Well, they
do I believe after the massage and which they
very clearly point out her scars on their back
by the way from the grenade and They don't play
it down. They put it in our face and frankly
they put it in Carol's face. Let's be honest
about that Why would they choose of all things
that they could do a massage where you would
clearly see? Zosha's back. I mean I got to say
again passive aggressive, really not good behavior.
After the exchange between Carol and Zosia on
the massage tables, this gets us to what I'd
like to call the Kepler -22B scene. And again,
just scene after scene of, it's all fantastic.
I loved this episode so much. It's one of my
favorite episodes. But this was shot in such
an amazing way where we get a great overhead
view as Carol is looking into a very powerful
telescope. And we find that Carol's looking at
a sun by the name of Kepler 22. And in particular,
there's a planet. revolving around Kepler -22,
which is Kepler -22b, and presumably that is
the planet the transmission is emitting from.
We do know that it is roughly twice the size
of planet Earth. It is in the Goldilocks zone,
so there is potential for life, and it's most
likely almost exclusively water. So incredibly
interesting in thinking about the life forms
that may be there and maybe emitting this transmission.
Yeah, it makes me think of a couple of things.
One, if you have a planet that is an ocean, how
can that relate to frequencies, waves, and sound,
and how that works? And you think about cymatics,
right? You take sound and you apply it to a piece
of metal with sand or something on it, and it
creates these images. It creates these patterns
and these designs. So water, frequency, waves,
and cymatics, and the way that this transmission
got to us and how it was utilized. It was utilized
in a way to change our DNA by using this RNA.
So all of that coming together, I thought, was
really brilliant. And Carol herself is also curious
about what these life forms might be like. She
says, so what are people like on Kepler -22b
and Zosia responds, we will probably never learn
the first thing about them. They're too far away,
but we know we love them and we're grateful to
them and we'll pay it forward. However long it
may take. We have to share their gift with whoever
else might be out there. And again, they're expressing
their biological imperative here, I think, but
it's also in the most sinister way. It gave me
goosebumps hearing her talk about it like that.
It takes me back to saying how sort of religious
and how evangelical this behavior is. It's obsessive,
too. This is the only choice because of this
biological imperative. I have to say, too, just
as a tiny little sidebar, since we're talking
about our water planet here, you know how they
say the octopus is not from here and that they
have a DNA that is otherworldly, that is not
from Earth. Throw that in the stupid theory that
the people that sent the message are octopus.
Again, you're dealing with our water planet Kepler
-22b, and she does say that they're too far away.
And when you sort of do the math of anywhere
from 600 to 680 million light years away, it
would take even if they traveled at light speed
1 ,200 years for them to get to us. But in our
first episode, one of the scientists had said,
we don't know how long the signal has been playing.
So if it has been playing for longer than 1 ,200
years, they could be knocking on our door any
moment now. And I would even posit that they're
knocking on our door within the next 10 years.
because that seems to be the lifespan of the
remainder of the joined if they don't change
their evil ways. We return to Carol's house,
presumably the next day, and I wanted to talk
about some of the additions that Carol's made
to the whiteboard. The first new addition we
see is communal sleeping, communal puddle, and
right next to it is sex, question mark, and that's
one thing you and I have been talking about,
is the hive mind breeding. We know that there
were 965 births just yesterday, but that had
to have been from pre -joining. So we don't know
if the joined are breeding in any sort of way.
Isn't that literally the definition of the biological
imperative is to continue to grow your species
through mating? Right, that's how it makes sense
to me. All these other things don't equate to
biological imperatives to me. Well, certainly
not in the way they define them. Because even
if they do get past this starvation episode over
the next 10 years, they're only going to survive
for another 60, 70 years without reproducing
at some point. The bounce that we get from the
scene with them looking at the stars is Carol
asking, how will you evangelically share this
information with the rest of the universe and
we get the jump cut over to giant antenna in
all caps. That's the latest thing that she's
added to the whiteboard. But we see communicate
via bodies, electric charge with a little star
next to it, radio question mark, telepathy question
mark. The next one is trains to transport food.
The next one is individuals feel everyone knows.
The next line being signal from Kepler 22B and
the last one being building giant antenna using
up all power in world to send signal to space.
And I think that clears up a little bit of the
question of why exactly are the joined utilizing
all of these measures to save power and to save
energy. Because we know that if they were to
send a signal into space, the amount of power
that it would take to send that across space
and have it reach another galaxy is probably
more power than we're really able to utilize
currently on Earth. So it's a big problem for
the joined to solve. Again, so much to unpack
in this scene alone. Oh, it's huge. And just
to talk about the building of the giant antenna
and the power that it takes, we remember from
episode one, one of the scientists says, how
massive do you think that the satellite array
would be in order to shoot a signal this far
to us from 600 million light years away? And
one of the guys says, it would have to be the
size of a continent. Think about that. alone.
Now we have an array that's the size of a continent
and it's going to take all of the energy of the
entire planet in order to energize it. What if
we're a throwaway planet and we're just tossing
the ball off to whoever catches it next? And
maybe even where we got the signal from Kepler
-22b is just another Bounce before it got to
us because they're gonna behave in the same way.
I assume evangelical Biological imperative everyone
in the universe needs this How does that alone
not lead to the devastation of the planet? it
brought to mind for me the Kardashev scale which
is a categorization of civilizations or interplanetary
civilizations Type one being a civilization that
can harness the planet's energy, which technically
humans aren't even a type one civilization yet.
We're not to the point where we can harvest the
planetary energy that is all around us. It seems
in order to transmit the signal, they would at
the very least need to be at some sort of type
one civilization and we're just not there yet.
At this rate, I don't think we will be. After
Kirill's completed her list that is comprehensive
and thought -provoking, her marker runs out of
color. I think she likes this color purple, to
be frank, and she specifically needs a new marker,
contacts the joined and says, can you do me a
favor? And Zosia comes by, drops off some new
markers for her and asks, is this what we think
it is? Are you writing again? And Carol didn't
even think about this. And she goes, uh, yeah,
that's what I'm doing. I'm writing. But every
time she looks at her notes for her novel, you
see her getting inspired. You see her wanting
to return to writing as an artist, as a creative,
as Carol. And she every single time kind of shakes
her head and then just slides that writing board
over to reveal the joined board that she has
here. when Zosia is asking if she's writing again,
there was a certain excitement coming from Zosia.
And I think there's a couple ways to look at
that. Is it that Zosia and the joined are truly
excited to have something new in the world that
they can consume? Or is it that the hive mind
want her to write the new Waikaro novel because
if Carol is writing, then she's not trying to
topple everything that the joined has achieved
so far. So Couple different ways to look at that,
I think. Yeah, and she accuses them of this later
on. But I would also say, in the way that Zosia
answers it, she seems genuinely thrilled that
something new comes across the table. Here's
something that I think is awful about the joined.
And this is the way that I might disagree with
Joe's theory from before. it's not transcendent,
it's homogenized. And from this point on, no
one can have an original thought anymore. I absolutely
adore that. That's what I want Zosha's feeling
in this scene to be, that they are missing something
and there's something lost when you become one
of the joined. I think that is absolutely fantastic.
Well, and it's the same reaction that Goomba
had with his Avocado Toast and Carol. Here's
another unique human being sitting across from
me, showing me something I hadn't seen before,
something new, something unique, something original
to me. That's what makes it interesting to me.
I would say that also is what makes us human,
our individuality, not our vegetarian, cannibalistic
collective. I think it goes back to the conversation
of the joined being this metaphor for AI. AI
doesn't create anything new. It's just repurposing
things that have already been created and it
can never create something on its own. Yeah,
he's gonna have a hard time fighting. This is
not about AI to some degree, especially when
he closes his show out with, this was made by
humans. Yeah. Even if he was ahead of his time
and having written it four years ago, I'm still
okay with that, because he's essentially also
not wrong. After this... She goes back in and
this is again where she faces her whiteboard
and she's reviewing the notes of her novel and
she's seriously considering now, hey, I have
an audience here as a writer would and go, I
do have an opportunity to do something that I
really enjoy doing here. But she still grabs
that whiteboard and slides it across. And she
finishes the addition to her antenna revelation.
How? That is the last question she writes on
the board. How are they? trying to do this. And
that's the question of the day, right? How are
they going to produce the amount of energy needed
to transmit this broadcast? So a lot again, another
Hydra, right? Another question that's popped
up here. Well into the next scene, we find Zosia
and Carol and they're at a empty football field
and they're playing the very fun game of croquet.
As Carol misses her first croquet shot, Zosia
hits hers and it goes right into the goal and
Carol brings up a really fascinating question.
Do the joined share muscle memory? Even though
Zosia mentions that she has all of the greatest
croquet champions within the hive mind, do they
share that muscle memory? And again, we get one
of those non -answers from Zosia and she just
answers, Maybe or maybe you just suck Carol and
we get a great joke in the background on the
jumbotron We see you suck Carol come up and a
bunch of stars flashing over it I thought that
was a fairly funny scene, but we get the sinister
undertones of her not specifically answering
that question as well she does what magicians
do she distracts you instead of answering the
question and I think the question actually answers
itself. We already know. And we already know
it from episode one. You have the TGI Fridays
pilot. And you have people that are seemingly
out of character according to their costume doing
remarkable things. Who's to say that this signal
isn't changeable now that they're connected?
and you can't reprogram them to do other things
that would go against their biological imperative
or whatever they want to call their philosophy.
So yeah, when she does the good non -answer,
that is probably one of the biggest distractions.
Oh, hey, look at this shiny thing over here.
We don't want to let you know more about how
capable we really are. Because that is the scary
part, right? It's one of them. Yeah. Yeah, I
got cannibals that are capable of being an entire
world of an army that can go against me and my
12 cohorts. Yeah. Yeah. Well, that gets us over
to Loughlin's diner. When we roll up to the place,
we assume it's been there for a long time and
Carol just hasn't been there for a while, but
we find out actually it's quite a bit different
than that. Yeah, as we hear Carol, and she's
sort of reminiscing, she's going over her early
days of writing. And even in the previous scene,
Zosia asks her, what was your best day of writing?
And Carol's response is such a Carol response.
She says, what was the most fun you had getting
your teeth drilled or something like that? So
it was pretty great. But this sort of builds
on that. And Carol is going over her early days
as a writer when she's writing on legal pads
that she's stolen from her work and there is
a Waitress named Brie who was always there and
she let her sit there as long as she wanted and
always kept her coffee topped off But as she's
reminiscing and all these memories are coming
back. We find out that Wait a second. This diner
burned down Right When you see that hit her all
at once, it is the culmination of all the things
that she's experienced with Zosia since she and
Zosia saw each other the first time with the
hug and all of the manipulative things Zosia
has done to her up to this point. I think it
just all landed on her, especially when you take
a restaurant that had literally burned down and
completely recreate it from scratch. Also, frankly
terrifying. Also, again, let's go back to our
thought of how much forethought the joined have.
They had to have taken an immense amount of time
to come up with all the materials and build it,
and it looked like it had been there for 40 years.
You had duct tape on the seat, all the little
details. You can't tell me that doesn't take
a significant amount of time, and maybe it was
the last 40 days that Carol had been alone. I
don't know, man. That's a lot to get accomplished
in such a short period of time without having
some sort of foreknowledge of that or something.
And it has to be more than just the collective
people inside of the joint having their version
of their history with Carol and their knowledge
of Carol. It has to be more than that. Here's
where I would drop this phrase about the joint's
behavior. Love bombing. That's exactly what they
are doing. so much so that they're going to recreate
the place of her origin. Again, overreaching,
love bombing, too much, poorly thought out, and
now I realize I just found myself in a love bomb
trap, and this diner shouldn't be here. I thought
they were going to say that they almost... reconstituted
Brie from something. I was glad to hear that
they just brought her in from Florida. But yeah,
way too much. And of course, Carol's reaction
of her literally freezing up, almost like the
joined do when they get their transmission. And
Zosia even asks, is everything okay? perfect
Carol performance. She stands right up, walks
out the door. The traffic outside literally stops.
She gets in the little blue car and hightails
at home. And she had even ended the conversation
with those were the best days. And she kind of
lets it land there as the manipulation is kind
of laid bare. At this point, we see that the
facade has fallen away from Carol. And she is
now angry again because They've tried to recreate
the best days of her life and we pick it up that
evening in the next scene where we see Carol
standing on her balcony overlooking the cul -de
-sac and she's having herself a drink and she
sees Zosia drive up and Zosia comes in and Carol
is pouring herself a drink and she offers Zosia
a drink, somewhat angrily. Zosia says, we'll
take one if that's what you want. And Carol asks,
would it kill you to say I? And even at that
point where Zosia tries to change her vernacular
here, the joined still struggle to say I. Carol
even says, another great Caroline here, all the
brains in the world and you can't navigate a
fucking pronoun. That works on so many levels
without a doubt. Well, it calls back to John
Cena. We are John Cena I believe that was the
first time we saw them break from the this individual
is or I and I wonder if the longer you're steeped
and the joined the more joined and more homogenous
you become and Zocha's Response is actually smart.
She says well, it's difficult for me to work
in singular pronouns because they're not. And
so she has to go in character almost to do that.
At this point, Carol begins asking Zosia about
Bree, the waitress from the diner, and asking
about where she was prior to then shipping her
in to reassume this waitress position, just to
give Carol this. distraction and she even mentions
that she admits that the hive mind is trying
to distract her and trying to knock her off this
course and she says because i haven't given up
tell me you know i won't give up and zoesha responds
we know we wish you would she delivers one of
my favorite lines in this episode for sure but
also it just so clearly defines my feelings on
this show entirely and the joined themselves.
She says, it's all an act. It's manipulative
bullshit because you know I haven't given up.
Right there, it's manipulative bullshit. That's
what I've said since episode one. That's exactly
what all of this stuff is. Word for word, that's
what you said, yeah. Yeah, and notice that Zosia
doesn't respond to that. And I think it again
goes back to my heart of heart theories is that
they are duplicitous. They are manipulative.
They are deceptive. They pretend not to be. And
I think they almost pretend not to be all things,
but we can see if that plays out later. But this
is where the cards literally end up on the table.
Carol says, I like you, you people. There's a
lot of things that I like about you. She's really
admitting that she, there is some sort of adoration
or some sort of longing for another person and
that she sees that there are maybe even some
good aspects to the joined, but she knows in
her core, this is wrong. And she says, someone
has to put the world right. Even if it means
you all leave me again, even if that means I'm
And she, again, lets it lie there, even if it
means I'm all alone. She has to put the world
right again. We get, really, from Zosia, the
biggest weapon of all, I think, at this point.
Yeah, this scene deserves a good, solid breakdown.
What I think I got from this was it wasn't that
she likes the joined. I think she likes Zosia,
and for all the reasons that the joint chose
Zosia to be the ambassador to Carol, as we saw
from the very first, second episode. And look,
it's working. What is the line that we love so
much from this show? Why does she have to be
so goddamn fuckable? And we know that Carol has
fought that this entire time. How can you not?
Now we're in this position where she's putting
her cards on the table not only for confessing
she's not giving up and that she knows that they
know, but this is a train wreck. It is unsustainable.
This is a mental illness. It is a psychosis.
You are starving and you cannot pick a goddamn
apple off a tree. Someone has to put the world
right, even though You may all leave me and so
she tells this person that she cares about seemingly
and maybe there's a little bit of Helen in there
and maybe there's a little bit of Zosia and maybe
there's a little bit of the pirate Queen in there,
but she's being brutally honest here and I agree
with her 100 % and again just like an evangel
or like someone with a mental illness Zosia ignores
the entire thing and goes with the final weapon
that she has left, which is physical love. And
when I first saw this kiss happen with Zosia
leaning in and trying to kiss Carol, and Carol
kisses her but then pulls back, I thought, man,
do they have another kissing scheme that they're
trying to work here to see if she kisses her
and she turns like we began the entire series
with? It certainly called to that, I think. Secondly,
of course, we have what I consider to be the
most practical response in Carol is she is practically
starved of physical compassion and attention.
And she leaps in feet first, or I would say face
first. You know, when I'm watching it, I don't
assume everybody's watching it all at the same
time, but back in the day when you watch television,
we all did watch it at the same time. And in
the back of my mind, I heard a collective scream
from millions of people watching this episode,
because I know millions of people were dying
for this particular scene to happen. I let out
my own little scream over here in Chicago, certainly.
She brought out the big guns, right? She brought
out the atom bomb on the weaponizing of Carol's
loneliness. And you can't really blame Carol
for where she is and the things that she's experienced.
And after a fairly fervent makeout scene, it
has a really great cut to Zosia. alone in Carol's
bed. Again, she's laying face down, so we get
a really great look at the scars on her back
from her saving Carol. And as Zosia rises from
the bed, she finds that Carol is on her computer
and we find out that Carol has been working on
a brand new chapter one for her Waikaro novel.
This scene and the previous one felt like the
culmination of the charm offensive and we do
have a clear winner here and that unfortunately
is the joined seemingly they have used their
final weapon against Carol and has defeated her
and has won this this round of spit if you will
Carol presents the chapter one to Zosia who goes
upstairs and reads it alone and comes back and
Again, we have a scene here where Zosia is going
over the chapter and we find out that Rabban
is now a woman as well in this latest novel and
they're going over a lot of the lore from the
Waikaro novels and I feel like there's something
more there that I haven't dug into enough and
there's possibly something within the lore that
they're hinting at but there is that performative
nature of how much Zosia loves the... first chapter
of this novel. I think she loves that Carol has
begun the creation process again and is distracted
and there is something new coming into the world.
I want to point something out that may seem innocuous
upon first viewing but I think is vitally important.
When Zosia wakes up in Carol's bed and sees Carol
writing again, She smiles Now think about this
She's not playing to anyone She wakes up and
smiles as she sees Carol writing Now I think
this could be a couple of things I think it could
be as you mentioned They are actually genuinely
pleased to be able to find something brand new
in this world that they know so well And I think
that's all of us. Sometimes the newest thing
is the most exciting thing. Secondly, I think
it's another indication of the breaking from
the joined through individuality, meaning it's
the actual Zosia smiling as she sits up in bed.
Beyond that, the rest of that scene is so wrought
with... We'll call it insider speak, I guess.
If you were a super fan of these books, you know
all of these little phrases. And they're placed
in such a great way that if you remotely know
about fantasy novels, you can basically follow
along with what they're saying here. And it's
fun and fantastic. But I'm going to disagree
with you on her capitulating to the joined. I
think she purposely wrote this chapter. for the
joined and made Raban a woman for the joined
because that's what they expected and she's still
using it as a tool in her charm offensive. Her
charm offensive is not over just because she
got some. She's more empowered now than ever.
I think that you very much may be onto something
here, because much like the hive mind, I may
have once again underestimated Carol in that
this is all a part of her La Turca plan, if you
will. I like that. Look, we're not all Bear Jordan
here, is what I'm saying. And it is a great conversation.
And the way that the conversation ends, Carol
asks, so you like it so far? She is a master
of her craft, but she still wants to know. And
Zosia says, I love it. And she consciously made
the effort to jump into the I love it without
prompting. And I think that that's another pin
in the idea of the breaking away individually
by sharing love with Carol, specifically, or
any of the unjoined. And we get that very much
in the next scene here. As things are coming
to a close, we get our timestamp here of 60 days
and eight hours and some odd minutes. But one
thing I wanted to point out early in this scene
as we are getting our timestamp is there's a
radio playing. This is an actual radio station.
Did they bring back a radio station specifically
for Carol to listen to? Because the hive mind's
not out there listening to radio. And the song
that they're playing even is Miles Davis, All
of You, which was really great. But we pick up
with Carol as she's washing some peppers at the
sink and she looks out and is staring at Helen's
tombstone. And I think that might actually jive
with your theory of This is all part of her plan
this domestic life that she's living with Zosia.
It might be all for show because She's staring
at her real love and not this fake love this
manipulative love The reflection of her looking
through that back window on to Helen's grave
I think is quite telling and I'm really glad
that you brought that up and so she was like,
oh, I hope you're making enough for two Man,
I immediately felt like oh, I was kind of Looking
forward to you bailing because I need to get
back over to my whiteboard and all my theories
about your weird ass But instead we're gonna
have to sit here and talk about omelets. This
is the conversation that I find Probably most
important in my theory, but I'd like for you
to kind of run over the the omelet conversation
a little bit Seemingly at this point Zosia has
completely shifted to utilizing I and me and
my and carol asks her do you like omelets and
zosia responds that i do like omelets even though
i didn't have many opportunities to to have omelets
and carol asks her well what is your favorite
food and zosia responds with this story about
Not the joined and not the hive mind, but the
individual that is Zosia and her specific story
with loving mango ice cream at this point Zosia
is almost exclusively speaking with individual
pronouns as opposed to collective pronouns. I
think this is an expected result of Carol's charm
offensive, that she has essentially forced Zosia
into using I instead of we, so much so that it
was more comfortable and easier for Zosia to
fall back into her original self and begin speaking
in first person. And I can't help but have this
lean into my theory that the more interaction
they have with Carol and Frankly, in this instance,
the more intimate interaction that they have
with Carol, that she is the antidote. Whether
it's, you know, the theory before about using
her DNA or her blood as an antidote, maybe her
love is the antidote, and the more that any one
of them hang out with her for extended periods
of time and or to the level now that Zosia has
with her, they have a switch that can possibly
switch them back to their individuality. And
this scene right here is the apex of that theory,
that we saw her delight in her story of the mango
ice cream, so much so that Carol saw her delight
in it and touched her hand and said, thank you
for sharing that. And I believe she honestly
felt that because this is the first time that
Zosia had been that individual that Carol so
desperately wanted her to be. Up to this, she
was Google. And this person in front of her right
now is not Google. I really love, within the
last couple episodes, really exploring the conflict
within Carol and her relationship with the hive
mind. She truly meant that she was thankful that
Zosia shared this. memory with her. And it wasn't
a memory of the hive mind. It was a memory of
the individual. So I really loved that. And we
get a great performance out of Zosia, not only
in telling her the memory that she has of this
mango ice cream, but right after that, when she
completely freezes up. And it's very similar
to how the joint froze around Kumba when Carol
was approaching Las Vegas and There's a just
a split second of Zosia Seemingly completely
terrified and that deep fear within her that
Whatever is happening could have just ruined
all of the work that I've put in over the last
couple weeks here with Carol and It could all
be for nothing as she responds. You're going
to have a visitor There's no doubt it was terror
that crosses her face. It suggests she knows
that these two are coming together and that that
is a major problem for the joint, especially
with how strong -willed they are trying to get
back to the old world. It just goes to show how
formidable Carol and Menousos are, that a hive
mind of seven billion plus people could have
a fear of these two joining together. I think
that is quite wonderful. But we pick up with
Manny as he is treating the wounds on his back
and we're back at his yellow ambulance with the
yellow gurney inside. What I loved was as he's
pouring the... peroxide across his back. We even
see it bubble up. It was just such a great little
piece of special effects. But he hops back in
his ambulance and we see that he is just 31 kilometers
from the Mexican -American border. That essentially
gets us to the tail end of the scene as Manny
wheels off toward Carol and we anticipate the
two of them meeting in the next episode. I gosh
darn hope so. At that border, he's eight hours
or so away from Carol. So in the grand scheme
of things, that's a fairly short amount of time.
So I think they'll be meeting up the next day.
And I'm very much looking forward to that. Excellent.
Well, do you have final thoughts on this particular
episode? And how are you feeling about the final
episode? I thought this episode was magnificent.
It's one of my favorite episodes. We had so much
information and so much more questions brought
up. I can't wait for the next seven days to come
by because I'm so excited to see how they wrap
this up. And I got a feeling that they're not
going to end us on a calm note. I think there's
going to be quite the cliffhanger at the end
of this season. That's really going to keep us
for the amount of time that it takes for season
two here. So I am incredibly excited. I haven't
even seen the title of the next episode. Do you
know what that is? I do, actually. The final
episode for season one, episode nine, is La Chinga
o el Mundo, The Girl or The World. I love that.
That's great. Yeah. It hearkens us back to Menuso's
tapes as he's learning English a little bit there.
For those of you that... don't like calling the
trees the porcupine trees. They are Chunga palm
trees. They are the spiny trees that Manousos
fell onto in the Darien Gap. So feel free to
call them that. I personally like porcupine trees
myself. This particular episode was directed
by Melissa Bernstein and it was written by Johnny
Gomez. I think they knocked it right out of the
park. I'm super thrilled about what is to come
next for the upcoming episode and I'm sure our
listeners are too. Well, I think that'll do us
for today Carol. Thank you so much for listening
to e pluribus unum Your favorite podcast on the
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we look forward to seeing you guys next week