What's up, Pursuing Jesus? Pursuers? Dudes and
duets? I... Listen, no, no, no, no. I think pursuers
is the word. Because I can't say dudettes. I
know. Listen, I love the idea. It was brought
to us. And I say dude a lot. In fact, I say dude
too much. Dude, Mr. Tuttle was my fault. I was
even having a serious conversation with someone.
They messaged me. And my first draft... Luckily,
it was my first draft and I didn't send it of
my text. But I was like, dude, I'm so sorry.
But it was like... What's wrong with that? When
I read it, it didn't sound appropriate because
this was like an older gentleman. Oh, I got you.
And I was like, dude. And I was like... I should
change that to sir or first name or something.
So, um, I use dude a lot. I mean that, I mean,
nineties kid, you know, early two thousands kid
dude is definitely very much high up. Yeah. You
know, it's so funny though. Talking, thinking
about that. Like I remember, I think back to
the slang that, that we used back then. So the
two big ones that I remember, like I used a lot,
which feels so stupid now. is one is it all does.
That's the bomb, the bomb, DA, the bomb. That's
the bomb because that that was big in the nineties
and that that was not cringe back then. No, that
was like, no, that was like you said that with
your chest. Yes, but then the other one that
I used a lot was once again, you got to get the
pronunciation correct, but a but a not butter.
It's the word butter, but b u t t a Butta. So
it's something smooth. That's butta. Oh, dude,
I've never heard that one before. Butta was a
big 90s word. As I was coming up through middle
school and high school, this was like classic
Snapchat dog emoji era. You know, like the dog
face where everybody was doing it. So like turnt
and lit and things being on fleek. That was what
we said when we thought we were so cool. On fleek.
That was one that annoyed me as a youth pastor.
I had a youth leader ask me if I had some turnt
in my fleek. What does that even mean? That is
a great youth pastor to use that in that way.
For sure. I think a penchant for malapropism
is a clear... What did you call me? I'll say
it again. A penchant for malapropism. You're
going to have to define this. Using funny words
the wrong way. Okay, what word did you say to
say that? It was two words. A penchant for malapropism.
A penchant. I don't even know what that means.
You have like a disposition. A disposition or
a proclivity towards. Okay, a penchant for malapropism.
Malaproposition? Malapropism. A proposition?
I hate that you just messed with me on this podcast.
Come on, dude. You know what? Forget it. We're
moving on. That just made me so happy. I feel
like there's only been one word that I feel like
has stayed. Not in terms of words that have come
back. People say rad and groovy again, and they
say vibe again, which is from the 60s or whatever.
But one word that I have consistently heard stay
in people's vocabulary is yeet. Not like the
way that kids would say it all the time, like,
yeah, you know, but like, oh, yeah, I'm going
to eat over there and do this. Yeah, he yeeted
the ball across the room. I feel like that one
stayed since it has shown up. Yeah, it's I've
even used because that's that word is way after
my time. Yeah, a hundred percent, but I've even
been able to use that word and it didn't sound
cringy because it became it started to become.
It's a verb. Yeah. Yeet's a fun one. I like that
one. Well, speaking of fun and good and hearing
absolute nonsense past office slang, what are
you going to be doing two or three days after
this podcast releases, Sean? Man, so the church
knows our people. They know. They know. It's
been a crazy summer. It's been a crazy summer.
And so recap before we move forward. We started
out the summer with Mission Serve. Mission Serve.
Salute to South Carolina. Incredible. That's
the big one. Shout out to my man, Luke Berry.
Over 50 people there. Luke Berry, construction
coordinator, extraordinaire, amazing, amazing
guy. And just the church that we hang out with.
They're awesome. And then we had VBS the next
week. It feels like a long time ago. Then I went
to SLU 101 in Orlando, Florida. Smaller group
of kids started the SLU 101 journey, took a week
off, was in the office finally. Praise the Lord.
And then last week I was in SLU 201, had a great
time. Even smaller group of kids, but man, that
one. Even though it was a smaller group of kids,
I was definitely more tired from that one just
because it was 6 a .m. to 9 .30, 10 o 'clock
every day, Monday through Thursday. I have an
alternate theory about that. What's that? I think
you were tired because for once in your life,
you actually wore a tie. I did. I wore a tie
twice. A jacket and a tie twice. Wow. But then
also with that, we were in a... That's youth
pastor kryptonite, dude. We were in a hotel.
We slept in a hotel room. Nice hotel room. But
had to share a double bed with my son, Miles.
No. A double bed with my son, Miles. He's getting
to be a big dude. Yeah, he is. I mean, he's skinny,
but he's a little bit taller than me now. And
he's got some muscle on him. And we both take
up a lot of room on the bed. That's hilarious.
That was part of the issue, too. So caffeine
was my friend, was my best friend last week.
And so, yeah. So now I'm here. We're here. We're
recording the podcast again. We're back in the
office. However, this podcast comes out on Friday.
Monday morning, I get to take our fourth through
sixth graders to camp. Okay. Where are you guys
going? And so this is our rooted student ministry.
We also invited our fourth graders to come along
with this. So it's like our preteen age. We are
taking them to Ridgecrest Retreat Conference
Center. It's in the mountains of North Carolina.
Great location. But it's put on by Lifeway. It's
an event called Centra Kids. So like centrifuge
is like the whole idea of it. Okay. You put them
in there. You spin them around really, really,
really fast. And you get the Jesus. Okay. Yeah.
Interesting spiritual model. There's just something
there. I don't know. I don't remember. Anyways,
what it's like, though, what this is like, because
it's put on by Lifeway. Yeah. It is essentially
a four -day overnight VBS. Oh, so high energy.
High energy, tons of games. It's Lifeway, so
there's a theme. There's a theme that they use
in this camp every location. And I think this
one's called storytelling. Oh, maybe. And so,
but it'll have its own theme song, their own
dance moves, like the whole thing. Wow. So this
really is like, like overnight. No, this is overnight
VBS. You know, let's kill two birds with one
stone next year and just do overnight VBS. Like
have all the kids sleep in the gym and have a
morning and a afternoon and evening session.
Let's just, let's just do it, man. Go big or
go home. I love that you're going to be our new
VBS director. I'm so excited for. this new role
that you are taking on, and I cannot wait for
you to find those overnight volunteers. You know
what? I can't wait for the $500 ,000 raise it
would take for me to do that job. That's wild.
Oh my gosh. Yeah, no. So we are going to influence
them in an incredible way this camp. For the
Lord, right? Of course. I don't like the way
you said that. What do I need to be aware of?
We are going to be influencing them to the Lord.
Okay. But also there's a little challenge that's
going to be going on. Oh, goodness. Why am I
not surprised, Sean? There's a lovely volunteer
in our church who we needed another male chaperone.
It's hard to find a male chaperone to go on a
week -long trip, work, all that kind of stuff.
and so I reached out to a new member of ours
that we've been able to get to know really well.
We background checked him and did all the things
to make sure that he would be a good person to
take, but a guy named Scott in our church, he's
going to go on this trip with us and hang out
with us. He's a little crazy in a good way because
I think he's going to bring that high energy
that's needed for an overnight Lifeway VBS camp.
Aha. Right? But with that, me and him have a
challenge. A challenge. That has nothing to do
with camp. Okay. It's pure entertainment. And
to see, we're going to test our manliness. Okay.
And what we're going to do, as we've said, we
are eating tacos at every single meal. Are you
making your own food? No, no, no. There's a cafeteria
there. So how are you going to eat tacos every
meal? So I've thought about this. Is this going
to be camp food in a cafeteria? Yeah. We don't
know what we're going to get. But you know what
I can bring with me? What? Tortilla shells. Sean,
no. So when we arrive. Sean, no. And we get chicken
nuggets and macaroni and cheese on the first
night. You know what kind of taco I'm going to
have on the first night? A chicken nugget and
macaroni and cheese taco. Yes, sir. So me and
Scott are going to do this. And you know the
kids that we're taking with us are going to be
watching us. I guarantee you the majority of
our kids are going to be eating random tacos
by the end of the week, and it's going to be
glorious. I am. You know, all of a sudden, I'm
so glad I'm staying here at the church this week.
I'm more excited. Are you kidding me? I'm so
glad. This is a taco challenge. I was born for
this challenge. You so were. Scott, also, I can't
remember the exact distance. I believe you said
eight or nine miles a day is what we're going
to have to run. to work off the tacos that we're
going to eat. Best of luck with that too, my
guy. That's definitely not happening at camp.
I'm going to have to run this when I get back
because this is in the mountains, and Sean running
up mountains does not happen. I am a beach person.
I'm a flat lander, and yeah, going uphill is
not in my legs. Well, best of luck with your
taco challenge. Thank you. As we pivot to our
text because we need to, I got a question for
you, Sean. Okay. I got answers. Who is the greatest
actor of all time? Oh my gosh. That is such a
good question. The greatest actor of all time.
All right. I'm thinking of range here. Matt Damon.
Matt Damon. Okay. So range. Mad range has done
a lot of different things. Like the movie, the
Martian. Phenomenal. Incredible room. Now, did
you go see The Odyssey? I have not seen The Odyssey,
so that's not what I'm... I'm not thinking of
Matt Damon in The Odyssey right now, because
I know he's in the movie, and I know he plays
a... I believe he plays a big role in this movie.
And so, anyways, yeah. And so, that's what I'm
debating on, you know? We don't have IMAX here
in Stanley County for some odd reason. There's
not an IMAX theater. Rude. And everything I see
online is like, you got to see this in IMAX and
all this kind of stuff. Well, there's only 12
theaters in America that show it the way that...
Exactly. The way that Christopher Nolan filmed
this and did all this. Yeah. I saw that same
thing online. Only 12 theaters exist in America.
that are going to be able to properly display
the movie as he intended it to be displayed.
Yeah. That's wild. It is. And like, I mean, we're
going to go see it anyways, right? But it's like,
is it that big of a difference? See, that's what
I'm saying. Also, there's something else that
you need to know about me. Okay. I'm cheap. Like,
just straight up. This surprises me so much,
Sean. I'm cheap when it comes to certain things.
And when it comes to spending money in the movie
theater, I love our Albemarle movie theater because
it is cheap. I can take my whole family, my entire
family, five people, and we can get popcorn and
drinks and everything. and get out of there for
less than 50 bucks. Let's go, dude. Okay. That
actually is really nice. I mean, you think about
it, you go to like just a date with like you
and your wife in Charlotte. Yeah. That's 50 bucks
for a movie theater. If you get all that stuff.
A hundred percent. But yeah, I think I want to
see it. Okay. Yeah. I like it. But so you would
say Damon is the great is what you would call
the greatest of all time on the top of my head
without overthinking it and just thinking about
that. Yeah. I think Matt Damon's a pretty, he's
a good actor, man. I like, I like that example.
I like that example. Who are you going to go
with? Um, so, uh, Matt Damon was in the running.
For me, it was between Matt Damon, Tom Cruise,
and Mel Gibson. Oh, Gibson. There's equal degree
of versatility there, but I would argue with
you that Tom Cruise plays himself in every movie.
That would be my only thought process. Listen,
the dude, he knows his role. But then you go
back to his movies in the 80s. Yeah. Great drama
roles and everything. But I think he's found
his lane as he's gotten older. Yes. And that's
just kind of where he ends up. Yeah. But so the
reason I bring this up, who's the greatest actor
of all time, is our central text for today, sort
of the one that you and I talked about beforehand
and really wanted to zero in on. Yeah, absolutely.
Because in a very real sense, this is the text
on which many others rest, spoiler alert, is
what commentators sometimes call the great commandment
or the greatest commandment. Yeah. Where Jesus,
you know. Who's the greatest? Exactly. So, Sean,
do you want to jump in here? I don't know if
you prefer the Mark account or the Matthew account.
Let's do this. For the sake of simplicity for
the podcast, let's settle on one of them. Let's
just look at one. I think let's settle on the
Mark 12 account. So it's Mark 12, 28 through
34. Thank you. You mind if I go ahead and read
it? By all means, please do. Hold your drink
further away from the mic. Verse 28. And one
of the scribes came up and heard him disputing
with one another. And seeing that he answered
them well, asked him, which commandment is the
most important of all? Jesus answered, the most
important is, hear O Israel, the Lord our God,
the Lord is one. And you shall love the Lord
your God with all your heart and with all your
soul and with all your mind and with all your
strength. The second is this, you shall love
your neighbor as yourself. There is no other
commandment greater than these. And the scribe
said to him, you are right, teacher. You have
truly said he is one. There is none besides him.
And to love him with all the heart and with all
the understanding and with all the strength and
to love one's neighbor as oneself is a much more
than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices.
And then Jesus said, he answered wisely. He said
to him, you are not far from the kingdom of God.
And then after that, they did not dare to question
him. further. It's a great passage, man. It's
a great passage, and one of the few where, like,
I feel like Jesus and the Pharisees get to, like,
an armistice, you know? I mean, because, like,
even in the context of these passages, like,
Jesus is beefing with the Pharisees and the Sadducees
as this question is asked. Also, like, one of
the rare times that Jesus actually answers a
question point blank, and not, like, answers
a question with a question or a parable, but,
like, he's just, like... I mean, it starts, the
most important is. He just flat out answers the
question. He does. And I feel like part of this,
too, is where we sit in the Holy Week narrative.
Because Jesus is less than a week from going
to the cross. And you see him turn the temperature
up in terms of what he says and what's important.
Absolutely. I've wondered sometimes, as I've
read through the New Testament narratives of
Christ's... time on earth, like why he wasn't
this direct throughout his time. But I believe
it's because when he was, this is what happens.
Like when Jesus gets direct, the Pharisees finally
push to the point where they actually have him
executed. Yeah. And I find it interesting, the
response that he gives, right? I think there's
some modern correlation here. Essentially, the
first part of this, he responds with what the
Israelites, the Jewish people, would have known
as the Shema. And the Shema, you know, hero Israel,
the Lord our God, the Lord is one. I mean, this
was something they literally repeated to themselves
all the time. Yeah. This was a very important
part of their daily exercise of their faith.
Yeah, like a parallel to today would be like
a catechism or a creed from maybe a more Reformed
church. It's something that they say every time.
So I was kind of thinking about the Lord's Prayer.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. For some churches. Yep, that's
kind of where I was going with that. Where I
find it interesting because they would have been
extremely familiar with this passage. But a lot
of times I see people kind of like this. They
recite the Lord's Prayer. But they don't know
what they're saying, right? And I'm wondering,
Jesus is like, hey, you want to know what the
most important thing is? You already say it all
the time, but have you really thought about what
you say? Isn't that an interesting concept? The
truths of the gospel that you and I, day in and
day out, try to build into ourselves, learn more,
and share with our people every week are not
new. or necessarily hidden, but sometimes they're
hidden in plain sight. Yeah. And this is the
curse of the youth pastor. The curse of the youth
pastor. Yeah. The curse of the youth pastor is
this. We minister to students every week, all
of the really good youth pastors out there, that
we are just preaching our hearts out, preaching
the gospel. And the joke is that we'll go off
to camp. the camp pastor will say the exact same
thing that we do. And all of a sudden our students
will come to us and be like, did you hear what
he said? Oh my gosh, I love Jesus with all my
heart. I'm going to read my Bible every day.
I'm rededicating my life to the Lord. And like
that initial reaction of wanting to shake their
little head, be like, I said this last week.
But it's because they're in this different location.
It's a different voice, a different personality.
And the Lord uses that. And so I remember truly
being frustrated as a young youth pastor. Literally,
I had a situation where I was like, dude, I just
taught on this last week. And then I was getting
offended, and you're young, and you got some
pride there. And then as I got older, I started
to realize the... benefit of having multiple
voices speaking to my students. And now it's
like, it's one of the things I'm constantly looking
for. I'm constantly looking for other people
to speak into the students because yes, they
might say the exact same thing I will, but if
it says it in a way that the students are going
to respond to the Holy Spirit, praise God for
it. I think there's a principle here that is
bigger than just youth ministry. Oh, 100%. I
think it goes beyond people who are young and
to all of us. If the only place I hear scriptural
truth is on Sunday morning for 30 minutes. Oh,
keep going. After some singing. That will absolutely
affect my life. I believe, like scripture says
it, God's word does not return back void. As
the rain falls down and it waters the earth,
so is God's word. But if that is the only input
I get that emphasizes my worldview as a believer,
I'm not going to grow all that much. And it doesn't
mean that I should be listening to a sermon every
day, but I do think that it means that the voices
that we put into our lives really, really matter.
Because sometimes the very same truth from a
different source is what we need to ingrain it
to understand. Because here's the deal. At the
end of the day, it's the same source. Because
it's the Holy Spirit that works in our hearts
to make those things change in us, to show us
those things, to change stubborn. hard -headed
spiritual people into Christlikeness. Can I get
off topic for a second? You just had my mind
go to a couple of different areas, and I'm curious
now. Okay. So you started talking about all these
different inputs, and so my mind went to social
media. Okay. Right? And how we sit in there and
we listen. I was thinking about it. You said
we listen to a sermon for 30 minutes, but then
we can scroll on TikTok for three hours before
we go to bed and not even realize it, right?
And they design it that way, by the way. Oh,
yes, because we are consumers. and we are ad
dollars. And the longer they can keep us looking
at that screen, the more ad revenue they're getting
that we're consuming. We're consuming content
for the sake of the companies. But with that,
the content that we're consuming, we get stuck
on algorithms. Sometimes we're going to be filling
our heads with not good content and all this
kind of stuff. And then once again, all right,
so you've got 30 -minute sermon on Sunday once
a week, and then for... probably for most people
out there, a few hours a day of content that
is not necessarily biblical unless you've really
trained your algorithm to do that. But this is
not my point. Here's my point. Here's the thought
that I started to have. I'm wondering, is in
the next decade, are people going to be able
to sit and listen to a 30 -minute sermon? Because,
I mean, we're already seeing the attention span.
dramatically drop in teenagers that even so like
most teenagers cannot go to the movie theaters
without having their phone out and it's not they
get bored too fast even with something that's
built to be entertaining like a movie they're
so used to 30 second storytelling or 30 second
garbage that they can't process good storytelling
anymore that takes three hours sometimes to be
able to do without being able to have something
else and looking at something else in their brains.
So I wonder if that's going to affect church.
So that was the direction I was going to go with
this. So I'm not getting this off topic. No.
Okay. So yes, but no. This is where I was going
to go based off of what you were saying. Oh,
cool, cool, cool, cool. I believe that there
are realities that Scripture presents us that
cannot be grasped either by a 30 -second story
or a 30 -minute sermon. And so attention span
really does matter, but I think not in the way
of how long it lasts, but what you give your
attention to. So many, like I'm on this own,
like my own journey myself in terms of like,
what does it actually look like for Ben to pursue
Jesus, right? And what spiritually forms Ben
and the way that he does it and the way that
he reads the Bible and the way that he prays
and all of these things, right? Yeah. But I believe
that there are some realities that you have to
pay attention to what's going on internally.
And so for me, it's less of a how long can you
sit through a sermon and more so how long can
you sit with yourself? The TikTok culture, the
30 -second storytelling, and for our previous
generation, it was the three -hour movies, provided
not just an attention span suck, but a distraction
from your own internal reality. It's an escape
that you don't have to deal with the issues that
are going on inside of you. And it's rarely that
intentional. No. You don't realize what you're
doing. You don't realize what you're doing. And
so I think either for the person who just sits
behind the TV for five hours at the end of the
day or the person whose screen time is in triple
digits each week. If we don't pay attention to
the internal reality of our hearts, it doesn't
matter what we're distracting ourself with, whether
it's a movie screen or the glowing rectangle
in each one of our rooms. That's why Jesus says
the most important commandment is not about what
we do, but about what we love. Yes. Love the
Lord your God with all of your heart and with
all of your soul and with all of your mind and
with all of your strength. That's how he says
that it says in the other text. All the other
commandments that are given in the Old Testament
flow out of those. And so I think when we're
distracting ourself that way, whether it be with
a movie screen or whatever size LCD you get on
your phone. You know, one of the things that
I've started to do in my life, probably within
the last year. Hit me. Silence. It's been a discipline.
I think I've talked about that, but I'll go work
out in the mornings. I'll leave my house really
early before work. I'll go to Planet Fitness
and I'll go work out. And I've started to, both
on the way and home, not turn on anything. Yeah.
And sit in silence. Now, there's still distractions
going on because I'm driving. Always, right?
Right. However, I've been able to have a lot
more contemplation about just life. spirituality,
you know, even prayer. And I'm using that time
that I would usually fill with, you know, I mean,
I'd fill it with worship music or an audio book
or a podcast and like positive things. But I
have found that there is a benefit to sitting
in silence. That's biblical. Isn't it though?
Oh, my soul, wait in silence. Like Psalm 46 is
there. And it's interesting that you bring this
up. I have been experimenting with the spiritual
discipline of silence as well. This started for
me maybe about... I don't remember when we read
this book as a staff. Um, and I will tell people
about it until the day that I die. It's the ruthless
elimination of her. It was so good. If you have
not read that, um, there is an audio book. Um,
there's a, there's a paperback book and I will
come geek out with you about it whenever you
would like. So just kind of pick it up and come
to my office. I actually bought it for somebody
on Amazon the other day. I just sent it to their
house. I'm like, you need to read this. Um, but
he talks about how silence is a discipline that
we see in scripture and he goes to the, to the
hit church history with like the, the old church
fathers in the first, second, third centuries
that said it was super duper important. Um, but
I have found the same thing in my own life. It's
looked a little bit different. Um, uh, I get
too distracted driving and so I've got to have
something. Usually it's my lunch break, dude.
Um, if you drive by a memorial on a day where
it's less than 90 degrees outside, I'm parked
out on the front porch eating my lunch. Yeah.
And I'll bring a book, but most of the time I
eat and I sit there. And I watch the world go
by and I watch the trees blow in the wind. And
that is spiritually meaningful for me, not just
that it's a second to breathe, although it is,
but that is when I usually most clearly hear
the voice of God. It's rarely about what I want
to talk about. Maybe that's the season I'm in
where I feel like the things that I want to talk
about aren't the ones that are pressing on my
heart for him. But man, I think that silence
is so important. It is. And I hope we have encouraged
some of our pursuers. to find time in their schedule
to sit in silence. You know, I think an easy
one is if you're someone that has to commute
to work and you're by yourself, I think that's
a great time. You know, that's a great little
first step into silence. And it can be, I remember
it being awkward because I'm so used to having,
because we're constantly filling our lives with
noise. But to have that discipline, where you
have, there's a time in your life where you're
just silent and you just, and as you said, Use
that time, and you just listen for the Lord.
And it's incredible. All of a sudden, you sit
in silence, and the things that can begin to
happen in your soul. I have found, for me personally,
that that discipline of silence is very easily
lost in my life, even on the front porch of Memorial
Baptist or wherever else I do this thing. And
it's usually painful every time. Not emotionally
painful. There's been some of that. It's a different
story. Like to not distract yourself with noise
or something? I think even from a brain chemistry
perspective, Ben is used to the 500 beats per
minute pace that most of us function under. And
so the practice of pursuing silence before Jesus
is something that I had to build a distress tolerance
for. What it doesn't mean is like, okay, today,
this very day, I'm going to sit in silence for
an hour. Dude, it's not happening. You live in
the 21st century. Dudette, it's not happening.
You live in the 21st century. Your cell phone
will stand up and testify. It's not happening.
But go five minutes. Set a timer. You'll check
it around minute mark two. And with that said,
put on do not disturb mode on your phone. Yep.
or set a timer on your microwave and then maybe
go for five and a half and then maybe go for
seven. And eventually you'll find that distress
goes down a little. One of the interesting things
about silence for me is that I don't just hear
the voice of God, although I do at times. Often
one of the things he uses that time for is to
show me my inner realities. Like when I actually
slow down enough to know what I'm actually thinking
and feeling rather than I need to do this, I
need to do that, I need to do this. Going from
task mode to like, what's in the tank? It's like
looking at an aquarium and shaking everything
up. And it's like, yeah, there's fish in there.
I can't see what they are. But slowing down,
letting it settle to the bottom and seeing the
pretty colors. So you've reminded me of something
that happened to me in Argentina because we've
been talking about this. I've used it as an illustration
every once in a while with our students for different
reasons. So the college that I was at was outside
in the country, outside of Buenos Aires, the
second largest city in the world. But we were
out in the country outside that area, and that's
kind of like northern Argentina. But in the summer,
we took a bus and we went to the south all the
way down towards the bottom, and we were in the
mountain range. And so we were right on the border
of Argentina and Chile, going down. And the college
owned a retreat center hotel down there, and
it was called Pichi Traful. Okay. I don't know
if that was the name of just a hotel or if it
was the city or the mountain, but Pichi Traful.
And anyways. Middle of nowhere in the mountains.
And it was ran on generators. And so when the
generators get off, and the generators would
turn off at like 9 o 'clock each night or something
like that, pitch black. I mean, pitch black.
Could not see anything. There is no light pollution
anywhere. Wow. So one night, we had a campfire.
And we just sat by the campfire. Someone had
a guitar doing worship songs. Classic. I mean,
just really cool stuff. And then all of a sudden,
naturally, as the campfire was dwindling and
we were just chilling, all of a sudden, like
everybody was just getting in this really cool,
peaceful mood. We all laid down. The campfire
was just embers. And we laid down and just looked
at the sky. No one said a word. I don't know
if it was two hours or 30 minutes, but we just
sat there or laid there on the lean. Our heads
are on the logs. and just looked at the southern
hemisphere sky, which is cool because it's not
what we're used to, and we just stared in silence.
And that right there, those 30 minutes to a couple
of hours, was one of the most impactful nights
of my year in Argentina. That very thing right
there, that relationship with God, that reflection
of your love for Him, I mean, that's why when
the Pharisee responds to Jesus and says that
that love for God and love for others is more
important than whole burnt offerings and sacrifices,
which are like the biggest of like sacrifices
that Jewish people would make. That's what it
is right there. God only cares about what we
do in so much as it reflects our internal spiritual
reality. And we focused a lot on the Shema. But,
you know, Jesus, and you just mentioned it a
little bit, but Jesus added a little something,
something to this. More than what they... Something,
something. He added a little something, something.
And, you know, he says the second is like this.
So this is just as important. And he says, love
your neighbor as yourself. There is no other
commandment greater than these. And it's so important
to remember because, you know, we shorten it,
love God, love others. You know, we put these
little tropes on it to help us to remember this
idea. But really that idea of your neighbor,
And, you know, he goes in and defines it with
parables and other ideas of who is your neighbor,
but basically it's everyone. Yeah. And so there's
no caveat here. No. We are called to love God
and love everyone. Like, that's what God wants,
as ourself. Yeah. To love others as we love ourself.
So here's a question for you. So you're talking
about, like, God commanding love. how do you
command love? Because if love is a feeling, right?
Then, then you can't, I like, I can't conjure
that up on command. You can show me things that
I do love, right? For you to be tacos. I could
show you a taco. You're like, dude, I love that
taco. How do you command love? How does God have
the right to command us to love certain things?
Yes, he does. Um, because love is more than a
feeling. When we try to define love as just an
emotion, we are taking out so much from it. I
mean, what is love? Baby, don't hurt me. Listen.
Don't hurt me no more. C .S. Lewis wrote an incredible
book that has become like the quintessential
where pastors get their illustrations about love.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And in this book, he brings
out that there are four types of love in Greek.
Okay. Right? And there's four different words.
There is storge, eros, phileo, and agape. So
very, very quickly, phileo or Philadelphia, the
city of brotherly love, that's what it is. City
of bagels. It's a friendship -type love, phileo.
That's what that type of love means, right? eros
eros is where we get our word erotic so this
is a passionate uh type of love this is the type
of love that i have for my wife right this is
that this is this is that and then you've got
storge storge is just a uh familiar type love
like i know camaraderie camaraderie exactly it's
that kind of stuff and then you've got this word
agape right and agape is what we would call Godly
love. Now here's just to put this all in the
nutshell and to go back of why I'm saying that
love is more than emotion. Yeah. With the other
three loves, basically those loves say I'm loving
you, but you better love me back. Right? You
think of all of them. You think of all those
loves that we just talked about. They only work
when there's reciprocal love. Yes. Camaraderie
together, erotic love together. Yes. Filet -O
together. Yes. That's what they all are. However,
when we get to agape, Agape is the godly type
love. This is what he's talking about in the
passage we have. Agape love, we call it godly
love or unconditional love, meaning I'm going
to love you no matter what you do back. Man.
So that is not reciprocal love. This is saying
I am making a point to show love, to show compassion,
to serve you. no matter what vial you put back.
So Jesus is saying in the greatest commandment
that you love God in the way that he loves you
and that you love others in the way that God
loves them. Yes. Wow. And so that's how you can
command it. Yes. That's how you command it because
that's what unconditional love is. Unconditional,
it is a command because there are going to be
people that come across in my life that Sean
Griffin, does not want to love but the jesus
inside of me is commanding me to love that person
and moreover he will give you the strength yes
to do so absolutely that's awesome well dude
uh what a great way to kind of land the plane
here just talking about like the love that god
has for us and the way that and the way that
we get to give that love to others and this is
why this is why that in this podcast We can talk
about how much we love God, how much we love
our wives, and how much we love tacos. Because
they're all different types of love. But they're
all genuine. But they're different types, man.
Oh, man. Well, I would love to land this plane.
Let's do it. Let's do it. Oh, my goodness. Put
down your funyuns. I'm Ben Smith. I held back
the whole podcast. I had to eat a funyun. I'm
Sean Griffin. We'll see you next week on Pursuing
Jesus. Pursuing Jesus is a ministry of Memorial
Baptist Church in Norwood, North Carolina. To
learn more about our church,