I got joy, joy, joy, joy down in my heart. Where?
Down in my heart. No, no, where? Down in my heart.
So you've got the joy, joy, joy, joy down in
your heart? Down in my heart. But how long is
it going to be there? Oh, to stay. And are you
so happy? I'm so happy. So very happy. So very
happy. You've got the love of Jesus in your heart.
It's in my heart. So you're very happy. So is
it just me, or does that actually sound like
really circumstantial? I feel like, so I think
that that's an interesting, I mean, so like we
all grew up, we didn't all grow up. I didn't
grow. I have still not grown up. Let's just,
let's be honest. This is a, this is part of the
reason we're filming a podcast is that we were
trying to get in live action. This is actually
like the, what is that old movie with that old
dude who like his life is a TV show and he doesn't
realize it. The Truman Show. This is the Truman
Show. Oh, God, you just referred to the Truman
Show as that old show. This is the Truman Show
for your spiritual development. Yes, yes. That
very, very old, extremely old movie. Yes. When
did it come out? Like, what, 80 -something? I
don't know. I'm pretty sure it came out in the
2000s. I'm pretty sure it had a two at the beginning
of when it came out. I might've been alive for
this. Hold on. I'm going to give it. Oh my God,
dude, that's actually a really like good movie.
Like it's a good surface level movie, but at
the same time, like when you start to do like
introspective on that movie, like it gets to
like, it's a good movie. It's a good movie. Oh,
so the Truman show is PG. So you're still in
the clear. Yeah, we can still, we can still,
we keep talking about this movie, but yeah, no,
I am one year younger than that movie. What year
did it come out? It came out in 98. Oh no, it
does have a 19 at the beginning. And so in all
fairness, like I'm probably less than a year
older than that movie because I'm January of
99. So I'm so sorry to everybody out there who
was born before January of 99. Because time existed.
Time existed, yeah. But no, there's two distinct
directions that we take here. One, I think in
a very real sense, the Pursuing Jesus podcast
is us, Truman, showing our spiritual development.
In that, so I haven't seen the movie, so I actually
don't know. I may be spitting completely off
here, but we're doing spiritual growth in public.
There have been things that I have learned on
this podcast that I did not know before. Um,
and, and, and like you shared with me, there've
been things that like you didn't know before,
or like I've been encouraged by things that I've
heard on this podcast as we've been putting this
together. Like, so like the process of discussing
like our own spiritual experience in the text
is spiritually formative for us. And so like,
that's kind of one of the reasons I feel like
we're doing this is to, is not just like to equip
our people, but also for them just to see what
it looks like for two dudes to sit down and try
to follow Jesus in the same room. And you know
what I love about that is, and it's one of the
things that is deep in my personality of how
I preach and what I do with my students and even
on Sunday mornings, and that is I am constantly
trying to make sure that I'm not on a pedestal.
And I don't even mean from a spiritual aspect.
I mean, like, I want people to know, like, I
am human, right? I am not set apart. spiritually
in a way because I am a pastor. You don't have
an extra dose of the Holy Spirit. No, exactly.
And so that's one of the things. And that's why
I love using my own personal stories. I love
using my own failures. Right now I'm writing
my sermon that I'm going to be giving tomorrow
night to our students, and I'm opening with a
really bad story of when I deserve to get beat
up in school because of my mouth. It makes me
look bad. I want to do those things. I want people
to know, hey, I'm real. I'm a real person. I
can relate to what's going on. I'm an idiot too.
Theologically, I think the word that Jesus uses
is sheep, not idiot. But I get the point that
you're trying to come across with. He also uses
the word fool. He does, but he does not call,
I don't know. That's neither here nor there,
and I'm not going to fight you. It's a different
context. It is a different context. I was meeting
with a guy who has followed Jesus a lot longer
than I have, relatively recently. And he is often
telling me, like, Ben, God wants to meet you
in the present. Not in the past. Although he's
there, you're not. Not in the future. He's there,
you're not. And so the only place that you can
genuinely... meet God is exactly where you're
sitting in that room, but also in terms of the
focus of your heart. And so I feel like some
of what you and I do here in Pursuing Jesus is
we engage with the text in the present. To the
best of our abilities, of course, we talk about
what we're going to talk about beforehand a little,
not much, but performative spiritual. growth
is not spiritual growth. And so for this to be
really be of any value for me personally, I have
to come at this with the real Ben Smith, not
necessarily with like the polished pastor Ben
Smith. 100%. I mean, if this is truly going to
be a pursuing Jesus podcast and the two hosts
are not pursuing Jesus, it's not going to work.
No, it'd be pursuing tacos for you, honestly.
So there's this new taco place in Albemarle that
I really want to try that I've been hearing about.
It's located in a tent, not in a building, and
it's on the corner where... Man, forget food
laws. I know. I want to go try this place, and
hopefully I might be trying it tonight if it's
there. I heard it's one of those things where
maybe they're there, maybe they're not, if they're
set up. So yes, I do like to pursue tacos. I
am literally trying to pursue this place tonight,
but at the same time. More importantly, I need
to be pursuing Jesus. And that's the heart of
why we sit down, why we put headphones on, and
we sit in front of these mics, is as we're doing
our daily devotionals separately, and then we
get to come together and like, hey, man, this
is what I learned from Jesus this week. And we
get to do that with microphones and with our
church family. I hope that they get to learn
from that as well. I think that practice is something
that we have to cultivate, though. I think there's
a natural impulse in us to want to form an image
or to hide who we really are or what we're really
thinking. Dude, that goes back to our first grandparents,
Adam and Eve. The first thing they do when they
realize that they have royally messed up is hide
in the garden from God and sow fig leaves to
cover their nakedness. But it is only through
being seen as we really are that we can relate
to God that way. Otherwise, we're not bringing
the real us, and he's not shaping the real us.
But it is something different to do in front
of an audience. Oh, 100%. Even though this is
audio only, still, we could sit here, we could
be fake, and we could do those things. It's a
discipline. But I would rather... I think our
church is going to learn more, and then we ourselves
are going to grow more the more honest we are.
100%. 100%. Dude, man. Well, hey, so I guess
we're not going to bash children's Christian
worship songs anymore, so that's probably a good
thing. We'll move on from that. We'll save that
for another day. That'll be another topic, like
songs we grew up singing. Let's look at the theology
of this. That's an interesting question that
I'm not going to pursue hardcore today, but as
a worship pastor, The songs that I put in the
mouth of our congregation are so important. Our
people and me are going to remember those easier
than even the best sermon sometimes. There are
certain moments that affect us for sure, but
when you give something pitch and melody and
meter and rhythm. It gives it more the ability
to memorize much easier. You remember those things.
If your songs aren't actually accurate to what
the Bible says or to the reality of the Christian
life, you could end up in trouble because you
start to believe that stuff when you sing it.
It's very true. Yeah, it is. So I think we're
going to start opening up our pursuing Jesus
devotionals. Sean gradually shepherding me in
the direction our conversation needs to go. Thanks,
G. So what day are you looking at there, buddy?
Oh, man. I'm looking at July 4th, Rockets, Red
Glare, and All. And this is Luke 19, 11 through
28. So this is a tremendously difficult parable,
or it was to me initially when I first came to
it. Maybe just the mindset I came into it. So
this is a fat chunk of text. I'm going to read
it anyways. Just go for it. Let's just run it.
So this is Luke 19, 11 through 28. And as they
heard these things, side note, this comes directly
after the story of Zacchaeus. The wee little
man? The wee little man was he. I mean, there's
a kid's song there. Keep moving, keep moving.
As they heard these things, he, who is Jesus,
proceeded to tell a parable because he was near
Jerusalem and because they supposed that the
kingdom of God was to appear immediately. He
said, therefore, a nobleman went into a far country
to receive for himself a kingdom, then return.
Calling 10 of his servants, he gave them 10 minas
and said to them, engage in business until I
come. But his citizens hated him and sent a delegation
after him saying, we do not want this man to
reign over us. And when he returned, having received
the kingdom, he ordered the servants to whom
he had given money to be called to him. that
he might know what they had gained by doing business.
First came before him, saying, Lord, your mina
has made ten minas more. And he said to him,
Well done, good servant. Because you have been
faithful in very little, you shall have authority
over ten cities. What? And the second came, saying,
Lord, your mina has made five minas. And he said
to him, And you are to be over five cities. And
then another came saying, Lord, here is your
mina, which I kept laid away in a handkerchief.
For I was afraid of you because you are a severe
man. You take what you did not deposit. You reap
what you did not sow. And he said to him, I condemn
you with your own words, you wicked servant.
You knew that I was a severe man taking what
I did not deposit and reaping what I did not
sow. Why then did you put my money in the bank?
And at my coming, I might have collected it with
interest. And he said to those who stood by,
take the mina from him and give it to the one
who has 10 minas. And they said to him, Lord,
he already has 10 minas. I tell you that everyone
who has more will be given, but to the one who
has not, even what he has will be taken away.
But as for these enemies of mine who did not
want me to reign over them, bring them here and
slaughter them before me. Whoa. Sean, what is
your overall vibe or impression when you come
to this text? Just looking at the idea of, I
think people are given different amounts from
the Lord. And are you being faithful with what
the Lord has given you? I mean, there is some
definite different ways that we're going to be
able to look at this and personalize this text.
So yeah, tell me why you chose this one. So I
zeroed in. So I feel like kind of the climax
of the story, like the... big boss battle, you
know, in terms of action movie things is where
the master comes back and he's kind of getting
account for the different people, the people
have given, he's given money to, and then he
talks with the wicked servant. Now, when we read
a text, like sometimes the authors of scripture
are kind to kind of give us a purpose statement
before or after. Right. And so like, like in
verse 11, Jesus tells us parable because he's
near Jerusalem. And because the Jews suppose
that the King, And you see that further on because
he's about to walk into Jerusalem and they're
going to say, Hosanna, Hosanna. God save us.
God save us. They're going to call him the son
of David. They will label him as the Messiah.
And so partially the text tells us that Jesus
is confronting their preconceived ideas about
what it looks like for God to come reign in his
kingdom. But kind of with that context in mind,
I zeroed in on a couple of things from... really
the master's response to the servants. So one,
the first kind of truth thing that stuck out
to me is the requirement for the servants was
not based off of their results. Now hear me out
here, because you see like these guys make money,
they're praised, this guy doesn't, and he's not
praised. But look at the very first thing that
the nobleman says in verse 13. He gave them 10
minus and he said, engage in business until I
come. Yeah. Uh, dude never gives a goal in mind.
No. All he says is be active. Yeah. And I think
that's why the first two people that are addressed
in this text, um, like I think that's why they
get a, Hey, nice job. Like you did something.
You, you engaged with the call that I put on
your life. Um, And the second piece here is like,
dude, the equipment that they are given is not
at all consistent with the reward for their faithfulness.
Not at all. Because look at that. So I looked
it up. A mina is like three months wage or whatever.
And so not a small sum of money by any means.
But I think that like... Just from my own budget
and household finance experience, dealing with
three months of my wages is in no way consistent
with literally running tensities. No, exactly.
No, not at all. But, I mean, the whole premise
here of being faithful in little correlates to
the Lord giving you much more to be faithful
for, I think is something that we carry into
our daily lives. The mundane, the day -to -day,
the things that we do each day feel meaningless
sometimes to me. But like one of the things that
this text reminded me of is that it is in the
very mundane day -to -day that God prepares us
for the big. But I think we expect the big things,
the rule over 10 cities or even five, without
having engaged in the mundane. And that was a
big application point that I drew out for myself
of like, Ben, how are you doing with your day
-to -day? Your day -to -day walk with Jesus in
your quiet time, yes. But also just your day
-to -day, like, are you involving the Lord in
the other things? Like when you set down your
Bible, when you close it and you start your day.
on your drive in as you're here in the office,
as you're talking with your friend on the phone,
as you're bugging Sean in his office, like, like
how am I shepherding the mundane things of my
life? I really, I really like where you went
with that. And when I look at this, you know,
so many, so many times I think people, People
want the ten cities, like you said. They want
the big thing first. And that varies person to
person what that thing is. And that's what I'm
saying. It depends on your desires, your goals,
and all that stuff. But a lot of times people
can look at whatever that is and they think,
like, this is what I deserve. The worldly example
I think about, one of the things I remember being
told is, like, you know, I've seen people. that
whenever they move out, Maybe even when they
get married, they think that they're automatically
going to be able to go out and get the house
that their parents have. Yeah. It's like, no,
it took them 30 years to get to the point where
they were able to get to this level of house.
And so for some people in that context, they
think that, oh, no, I'm going to get out of here.
And it's like, no, no, no, there's work involved
behind the scenes. And so really even there,
I mean, there is some worldly application as
well to this passage. But when I look at it,
And I look at this, and I love how you pointed
out at the very beginning, in verse 13, he told
them to engage in business until I come back.
Yes. That's the lens you have to interpret the
rest of this passage from. Each of them has been
given a different amount. Yeah. But like you
said, there's not a goal specifically for each
of them. It's just like, hey, this is what you've
been given. You are responsible for what you've
been given. Now go engage in business. Yeah.
Right? So I think there is something where we
have each been given different spiritual responsibilities.
Yes. This goes way beyond money. Yes. No, absolutely.
And here's where I think in our context we need
to understand that because... This was on July
4th. We live in a country that we just celebrated
our 250th anniversary, our 250th anniversary
of some incredible freedoms that we've been given
living in this country. And because we have those
governmental freedoms, there are spiritual freedoms
that we also have that other countries and other
Christians don't have. So we have been given
more. I believe that we have been given more.
We have more access to not only the Bible, but
theology. We've got freedom of speech. We've
got the ability to go almost anywhere and share
the gospel. We have been given 10 minus. I mean,
just in this country, we have a big spiritual
responsibility. And so now, knowing that, That
I feel like we, just because of where our location
is and the freedom we have, we have a very large
spiritual responsibility. The question is now
like, oh, okay. When we realize that, how much
more do we think of, okay, what business of the
Lord am I engaging in? Yeah. No, that is a great
question. I mean, because look at the end of
the passage. I tell you, everyone who has more
will be given, but the one who has not even what
he has will be taken away. Yeah. I'm not editing
that out. Sean threw his bottle across the room
and it clunked on the floor and he knows better.
Like he knows better that I would have to edit
that out. He made eye contact while he did it
like a child. And so I'm going to keep that in.
I hope he picked it up. That was good stuff.
Wow, that threw off the conversation. Dang it.
There's two truths here, though. Please get us
back on track. One, like you and I have been
heavily emphasizing, and I'm going to beat this
drum until the day that I die, dude, because
performance -based faith is the enemy. If you
are judged by your success or failure, then that
is not the gospel. If you are judged by how good
you are or how you ought to be, that is anti
-gospel. And you are trying to make up for in
your own effort what Jesus has already died for.
And God is not going to honor that. You may have
earthly success, but at the end of the day, that
will burn in the fire. Yes, it will. But here's
the other piece. The king is coming. Yes, he
is. Look at the beginning. This nobleman goes
into the far country to receive a kingdom. Obviously,
Jesus is using this as an analogy for himself
and the people of Israel. Yes. They send a delegation
after him saying, we don't want this man to rule
over me, which is what they did a week later
when they crucified him. But, dude, the seeds
of that are in all of our hearts. Yeah. That
is the thought process of... the wicked servant.
Because I think we take what he says is true.
The wicked servant is like, oh, you're a hard
man and you take money you didn't deposit and
you reap what you did not sow. No. It's all already
the king's. And so his mindset is just warped.
It's bent on his own good. It's bent on his own
comfort. It's bent on his own ownership, except
for he's... Nothing is his. Well, isn't this
exactly the same principle that we're looking
at in Galatians on Sunday morning right now?
Yes. And that is anytime you begin to add anything
to the gospel, anything you add to the gospel
is going to distort the gospel, and it's no longer
going to have the power it once did. Because
if you add anything to the work of Christ, you
are diluting the power of God. Well, a false
gospel is no gospel at all, dude. No. Because
if, I mean, Paul says it in Romans, like, if
we could do this ourselves, then Christ died
for nothing. Nothing, yeah. And so, but dude,
for those of us... As we labor, it's so hard
to be a Christian sometimes. Like the day -to
-day mundane that we were talking about, that
can get dry. That can get difficult. Being a
Christian costs us. I think in different parts
of the world where they don't have the same freedoms
that they are, people die because they take the
name of Jesus. But so for us, the notion that
our works, that our salvation, our standing before
God is not based off of our own efforts. or our
own success, rather. It's based off of our faithfulness.
But the second one, man, the king is coming back.
And so while we labor, we know that Jesus himself
is already on his way. Recognizing whether the
rapture comes tomorrow or in 2 ,000 years, all
of this that we're experiencing today, the good
and the bad, are part of his plan to redeem his
people and to restore his creation. Yeah, man,
I love it. That's so good. There's one more thing
I want to ask you about. What do you make of
that verse 26? Anyone who has more will be given,
but from the one who has not even more, or even
what he has will be taken away. That's a weird
phrase to end this with, particularly then going
on to say slaughter the enemies of mine who did
not want me to. I tell you that to everyone who
has, more will be given. And from the one who
does not have, that's the phrase that I'm stuck
on right now. I mean, you don't have it. Even
what he does have will be taken away. I'm trying
to figure out what he's talking about. I'm very
confused. I feel like it could refer to like
genuine belief or genuine relationship with God.
Because if you do, at the end of days, like I'm
presuming Jesus is talking about his return,
right? If you do have a walk with Christ, more
will be given to you. We see the example in the
text, like more responsibility, right? The very
beginning of verse 26, I tell you that everyone
who has, more will be given. Like that part.
I think there's very good correlation to what's
going on here, right? And just me reading from
the cuff right now, and from the one who does
not have, okay? So they don't have. This is even
what he does have will be taken away. So are
we talking about this? is this like someone's
heart's going to be more hardened because they're
not pursuing? Where are you at with this? I think
that this is someone who does not have a relationship
with God. It sounds like someone, and from the
one who does not have, so does not have salvation,
does not have Jesus, right? Even what he does
have will be taken away. You know what I think
he does have? His works. I think those are the
good things that he did trying to justify himself
before God. I think that those can be the things
that they hold as important to things that they've
strived for for their whole lives that ultimately
didn't have spiritual value. So this could be
like the guy who buried his coin because that
was his work. Yes. He's like, hey, I'm going
to protect what you've given me by doing not
what you asked. I'm not going to engage in business,
but I'm still doing something physical. but it's
not what you wanted. It's interesting to think
that you can go your whole life in an effort
to protect something, but if it's not what you've
actually been asked to do with it, then you can
still be doing the wrong thing. And so I think
that's where I'm struggling right now, and I'm
trying to figure out, so from the one who does
not have, I mean, the phrase right there lends
itself to believe this is someone that's not
a believer. Yes. Can you be a believer and still
do Christian things? From the outside perspective,
yes. Yes. Absolutely. Yeah, you can make it look
like you have it all together. There's a lot
of things you can do based on your mind. Yeah.
You have the knowledge of what is the right thing
to do. Or even just your desire to be justified.
Yeah. And that's something like you have, like,
I think that I've met some people that are extremely
moral people. Yeah. Right? And there's no Christian
foundation to it, but they try to do what is
right. That is just built in them to do what
is right. And so here, even what he does have
will be taken away. Yeah. even though you've
tried to dig your own hole for the Lord, that's
not what he asked you to do. And so that's not
going to benefit you in any way. So it's an interesting
passage, man. It reminds me of 1 Corinthians
3, just kind of the idea that we're talking about
here, where Paul kind of talks about each believer's
works and ministries. It's 1 Corinthians 3, verse
10. I looked it up while you were talking. And
it says, according to the grace given to me,
this is Paul talking, like a skilled master builder,
I laid a foundation and somebody else is building
upon it. He's kind of fleshing out the idea that
like multiple different people can invest in
one person spiritually. Let each take care how
he builds upon it, that foundation. For no one
can lay a foundation other than that which is
laid, which is Jesus Christ. There's no other
rock this thing can get built on. Now, if anyone
builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious
stones, wood, hay, straw, each one's work will
become manifest for the day. In my text, the
day, that D is capitalized. So he's referring
to the day that Jesus comes back. We'll disclose
it because it will be revealed by fire. And the
fire will test what sort of work each one has
done. If the work that anyone has built on the
foundation survives, he will receive a reward.
If anyone's work is burned up, he will suffer
loss, though he himself will be saved. But it
is only through fire. And so I think here the
conversation shifts maybe a little, and maybe
it doesn't. Maybe there's a point where this
could talk about somebody who knows Jesus and
somebody who doesn't. But I also see here the
person who has, right? There is some spiritual
something. But what that is will be taken away
in that if you're doing it by yourself without
Jesus, then you're not getting fed the way that
he intends you to. So going back to our text,
the person that is being referred to there at
the end, what do you think it takes for them?
to recognize their works are not working, that
they need the master. There are a couple of things
that come to mind. I'm reading a book. I don't
remember the name of the author. I'm not even
going to give him credit here. There are a couple
of things that come to mind. And I see this in
our context here in Stanley County. I don't have
anybody specific in mind. I'm not shooting shots,
but I am thinking of a category of people that
I come across frequently here who trust in their
Christian cultural heritage in a way that they
don't recognize they're not actually engaging
with Jesus. They focus exclusively on the outward
trappings of Christianity. Go to church, been
baptized, tithe. Mama and daddy were Christians.
Nana and Papa were Christians. This is just who
we are. And the way that they treat people who
may have come up in the church but who have not
shown any fruit and who haven't been there since
they were a child still focuses on the external.
Man, they really need to turn their life around
and get back in church. And it's like, dude,
you're still focused on your works. And so I
think asking those questions of like, what actually
matters to me about the Christian life? Is it
a set of traditions that I follow and the way
that I feel about me and God is hinged on how
often I've been to church or how regularly I
tune in on pursuing Jesus? Or do I recognize
that those external actions are a symptom of
an internal reality? Because I think that, listen,
this dude in our verses was a servant of the
master. But you see from the way that he talks
about the master's actions and from the rebellion
at the beginning of the verse that his heart
was not with the master. He was focusing on himself.
And that is one of the, going back to just our
culture, and I recognize, I've been here in Stanley
County for nine years, and I think it's not just,
I don't want to say it's symptomatic of, it's
not symptomatic of just this county. But Bible
Belt culture. Yeah. I mean, it really is. You
know, people look, we look at the Bible Belt,
and we are so culturally Christian that so many
times that's where it stops. Yeah. It stops with
your culture. You do things out of tradition,
and I believe that a lot of people are hurting
spiritually because of that. And perhaps have
false assurance of their rightness with God.
Oh, 100%. 100%. Even if you've prayed the sinner's
prayer as an eight -year -old and got baptized
as a nine -year -old, I have to wonder, going
back to the parable of the sower, like, are you
one of those people who got choked up by the
weeds, the cares of this world, or the devil
came and stole that word away? Because we see
from the book of James that the evidence of a
believer is the fruit. Yeah. Not the salvation
of the believer. Salvation is by grace through
faith alone. But because of what Christ does
in you, because of the Holy Spirit in you, we
see their fruit and their works. And this is
why I ended my sermon this past Sunday the way
I did, talking about my transformation. Yeah.
And I mentioned on Sunday that I don't have a
date, right? I don't have the date that... It
was this big Holy Spirit movement. For me, it
took time. It was over years. And sometime through
those years, man, I realized Jesus was Lord.
And how I know, because I remember at the beginning
feeling like, oh, I'm not saved because I don't
have a date, right? Yeah. But what I realized,
but no, I started to look at how I was being
transformed. My desires began to change, and
my desires were not changing to prove my love
for God. My desires were changing because I loved
God. And that is where I think people get tripped
up. So many people get stuck in cultural Christianity
because they're doing things to prove their love
for God instead of they're seeing a renewal of
their mind, as Paul says. and their desires are
changing because of the love they've experienced.
And that's how you realize there's fruit. And
I wonder if the, if it's, if, if a component
of this too, is that they're also thinking they've
done all they need to do to have to, to rather
than I'm doing what I need to do to prove that
I, that I love God or God's love for me. It's
like, no, dude, I'm good. I'm set. I'm set. But
like hearing you talk about your testimony, like
every time you bring it up, it reminds me of
Philippians. Like he who began to work in you
will bring it complete to completion in the day
of Jesus Christ. That's another one of those
passages where the day, the capital D is capitalized,
where Jesus comes back. It's like our spiritual
walk is not a one -time event. And I think that's
one of the things that we can treat our walk
as. Like I got saved, bam, donezo. I've done
what I need to do. And it's like, you've done
all that you needed to do to be saved, provided
that this leads to a lifelong relationship with
Jesus. If it doesn't, then I don't know if that's
a, I don't know if that was a genuine call to
salvation because there's not fruit there. If
the Holy Spirit isn't working in your life, like,
you know. And it's one of the, and all I can
speak of is from how the Holy Spirit has worked
in my life. And what I know and what I've experienced
is that the closer I get to Jesus, the more I
absolutely fall in love with Jesus and the more
I desire to represent him well in everything
I do. And that process is like the least linear
thing ever. It's like four steps forward, two
steps back, three steps back, one step forward.
I think that's the whole podcast in itself, like
quite honestly. Once again, going back to the
very beginning of... towards the beginning of
this podcast, of my desire to not paint myself
on a pedestal as a pastor. Facts. I want people
to know I tell stories of my past. I tell stories
now that I am still messing up. I am still, as
the Apostle Paul says, I am still being saved.
Yes. And that is the case for all of us. We're
all going to mess up. We're all on this journey.
But that's what I love about pursuing Jesus together,
is that's what the Christian faith is all about.
100%. Sean and I aren't sitting here like, oh
yeah, you're not saved and you're not saved and
you're not saved. I'm not the Holy Spirit. But
I would encourage anybody listening to this podcast,
and I think I'll land the plane here, ask the
Lord to examine your heart. Because I think he
really will show you. Yes, he will. Do I have
a living relationship with Jesus? Is it the fact
that I'm a Christian that drives my behavior?
Or does my daily walk with God inform what I
do and how I think and feel and function? We
can go a long way on willpower just to do stuff.
it's hard for us to change who we are under the
hood. And I think that's what that soul transformation
looks like. That's a good final thought, buddy.
Yeah. We all thank you for jumping in with us
here on this Pursuing Jesus episode. One of these
days, Sean, we're going to get to both texts.
You know, if we do, we do. If we don't. I think
we need feedback always. That's true. We're only
doing what we feel that our conversations are
just fluid and we do what we can. If you want
to hear us talk about more text instead of laboring
on number one, let us know. If you want to hear
us talk about more tacos, I would love to talk
more about tacos. Pursuing Tacos is going to
go up on our Patreon in a couple of weeks. All
right. Well, we love you guys. This has been
Pursuing Jesus. I'm Ben Smith. I am Sean Green.
And we will catch you later. Pursuing Jesus is
a ministry of Memorial Baptist Church in Norwood,
North Carolina. To learn more about our church,
please visit memorial4norwood .com.