Olé, olé, olé. Olé, olé, olá. Olé, olé, olé.
Cada día te quiero más. Soy, soy memorial. Es
un sentimiento. No puedo parar. Olé, olé. Okay,
I'll stop. I'll stop. What? What? What is this?
Listen, this song is stuck in my... Okay, it's
World Cup season. right? Yeah. For the 0 .5 %
chance that our listeners are watching the World
Cup because we're Americans and even though it's
taking place in our country, I don't know. It's
actually enjoyable. I'm enjoying it. But anyways,
my favorite part about the World Cup so far has
been all of the Europeans being like, oh, this
is what America's really like. It's so fun. Like
watching them on TikTok and they're like, it's
no longer what their media portrays us to be
like, but they're realizing we have amazing stuff
like Buc -ee's. Yeah. Watching like people from
Denmark discover Buc -ee's and Waffle House.
Watching them discover Waffle House has been
amazing. Anyways, so that chant. That's incredible.
That's actually a popular soccer chant in Argentina.
In Argentina. And so I lived in Argentina, and
I went to soccer games in Argentina. But even
that, we would just be in the cafeteria of the
school when I was in Argentina. And so the song
Ole Ole, they're just chanting. And then it says,
I love you more each day. And then the original
song goes, Soy Argentino, so I'm Argentine. And
then it's a sentimento, it's a feeling, no puedo
parar, I can't stop. But like... in Argentina,
like this is a huge song, but like in the cafeteria,
they'd change I'm Argentine to like, the big
one I remember is soy, soy facturas. And a factura
was like a really popular dessert. And so we
were chanting in the cafeteria, like we want
this dessert. We want this dessert. So anyways,
it's World Cup season. I thought what better
way to open up the Pursuing Jesus podcast. And
I changed it to soy memorial. Well, que esta
la factura? I wish I had some facturas. I don't
have them. What are they? So a factura is it's
a pastry filled with like jelly and stuff like
that. And there's different styles. There's different
styles of them. So it's kind of like their version
of a donut. Okay. I dig that. I dig that. And
they were delicious. We will have to find some
facturas somewhere here in Stanley County. In
Stanley County. You know, there's a... There's
a Latin store in Albemarle. It's got some pretty
good stuff. I've been in there a couple times.
Okay. We might have to go. We might have to go.
So anyways, what's up, Pursuing Jesus people?
You know, you talk about singing, Sean, and you
open with a song, which I was not prepared for
at all. Sean just looks at me and goes, I have
an opening. And boy, did I. And boy, did you.
My favorite part about the World Cup has not
only been the people experiencing America, but
the spoof videos that I see on Facebook or on
Instagram of people pretending to be the players
and then hearing a country's quote -unquote national
anthem. But it's just a song that people know
well from their country. Right. I saw one that
was courtesy of the red, white, and blue. Standing
for America's National Anthem. I saw the British
one, and it's like that drill beat. Man's not
hot. Two plus two is four. Quick maths. I recognize
that song. I actually do. Here's the real question.
How does a song become the National Anthem? Is
it by votes? Could I start a petition to change
our song to Party in the USA? I feel like as
far as... the focuses of our degrees that we
both have, yours is more inclined to have the
answer to this question than mine. Even though
it probably still is way off, you're closer than
I am there, buddy. That's a great question. Is
it something that just naturally happens over
time? Or is it an act of Congress? Okay, so as
far as the United States, I feel like it had
to have been an act of Congress, right? To implement
this? The Star Spangled Banner was not our first
national anthem. Wait. Yeah. Isn't that crazy?
Is this going to be one of those questions that's
on the test for people to become citizens and
us as citizens have no idea about it? I don't
know, but if you're listening and you're an American
citizen, unlike Sean, you... We've talked about
that before, haven't we? If you're listening
and you're an American citizen, unlike Sean,
this is what's on the test. My country, tis of
thee, used to be our national anthem, which,
interestingly enough, is... The Steel's the same
tune and meter from the British National Anthem
at the time, which was God Save the King. We
straight up took their National Anthem, put our
own lyrics to it, and said, nah, this is ours
now. This ain't about a king. This ain't about
a king. My country, tis of... Oh, dude. And playing
on the singing theme again here, there's been
a lot of singing in the building here at Memorial
recently, hasn't there? You know what? There
is joy in the air, and sometimes that joy comes
out in song form. Yes, song and dance. What are
we talking about here, Sean? VBS, baby. Oh, yeah,
dude. At the time you were listening to this
podcast, VBS will have been well and over by
about a week or so. Yeah, so to give you some
behind the scenes for our podcast listeners who
are dedicated listeners. This is off the page.
Yeah. Oh man. Still, we got to get some patron
supporters, but until then you get all the information.
So for me and Ben, the podcast that you listened
to last week happened yesterday because we're
in the middle of summer and we've got to double
up on some stuff. And so, but somebody's got
the nerve to be gone next week. You know, sometimes
people have to go to Orlando, Florida and visit
universal studios for the Lord. Yeah. It's a
vacation. Listen, this is closer to a vacation
than Mission Serve was. But yeah, SLU, I'm leaving
out for SLU next week. By the time you listen
to this, I'll be back from SLU. But yeah, we'll
be in Orlando. We do get to visit SeaWorld. We
do get to visit Universal. It is a... It is a
treat for the amount of knowledge that is about
to be stuffed into our students' heads. Amen.
So it's actually a really cool policy. It's like,
hey, we're going to sit you in a conference room,
in a business conference room for hours and hours
and hours, and people are just going to throw
so much information. Your hand's going to get
tired from writing, but don't worry. You're going
to get a break, and you're going to get to go
ride some crazy roller coasters. So it's actually
really cool how they do that so that they realize
teenagers can only take so much. Everybody hits
that saturation point. You just got to breathe.
excited for the SeaWorld break. I'm excited for
the Universal break. Exactly, exactly. Well,
before you skip out of town again here, Sean,
I believe you and I have some passages that we
got to talk about. Man, and yeah, and we are
officially, fully into quarter three, baby. We're
quarter three. This is purple book status. This
is purple book time. So we've been orange. We've
been orange. Orange, we're glad we're done. Blue,
I'm not blue, that is gone. And now we're purple.
How are we going to make a joke about this? You
sang about Purple Rain last week. Okay, that's
true. Purple book, purple book. That's how you
ended the podcast, isn't it? I guess it is. I
think it is. But anyways, we are now in there.
So once again, if you have not picked up that
purple book. Make sure you go get it. We are
fully invested into the purple book now. Absolutely.
And if you want to decide the color of the next
book as we're approaching quarter four, go ahead
and just tape a color swatch from Home Depot
or Lowe's on Sean's door. No, don't. And we'll
do that by verse. You're going to hurt my heart
if you do this because if you hold on. Did you
already make it? No. Because if you hold all
three books together, you'll notice that the
colors go well together. I've been using a color
wheel to pick the colors to make sure the books
blend together well. So if someone just comes
out here with some random shade of red or something,
like, oh, we got our state fans and our Carolina,
they're going to be like, it'll end up being
a college color debate. Your door will become
equally parts red and blue. None of those colors
are going to look good with the color scheme
I've chosen. So you're saying that based off
of your plan, an outrageous request might be
kind of out of left field and people wouldn't
really be understanding what they're asking for.
Yes. That sounds like a text of scripture that
I heard about recently. Oh, see now that's a
good transition. That's what I'm talking about.
They're not going to see this, but we got to
pound it. Boom. There's a pound, man. What, what,
what a difference. Cause like last week we were
struggling with the fake transitions. And then
today a banger of a banger transition. And now
that I've talked about the transition, let's
get into it. There it is. You have effectively
ruined it. Yeah, I know. But, wow, that was so
good. Oh, man, props to you. Man, what you been
drinking over there? You got some good coffee
today. It's a nice dark roast, a little bit of
honey. Local honey? Trader Joe's honey. Okay,
upper class honey. No, we get our rice from there.
It's better than like... Walmart rice. I don't
know. And so we got honey this time too. Interesting.
So Jesus, Bible passage? Yeah, that's right.
That's right. Oh, my passage. Yeah. Like dead
serious. The transition was for my passage. It
wasn't for mine. I'm talking about Zacchaeus,
dude. I thought for sure. What the crap, Sean?
I teed you up. I'm going to have to cut so much
of this out for this even to make sense. Where
do I begin? So now you have choices of like,
do I cut out? Right after you teed it up, go
right into my Bible study? Or figure out how
much of this mess that I have created gets to
stay in? It's every week, dude. This is nothing
special. So speaking of the purple book, I actually
want to start us off on the very first day of
the purple book, which means we are going to
July 1st. Perfect. So, yeah, so July 1st, there's
two passages, Matthew 20, 20 through 28, Mark
10, 35 through 45. Obviously, the passages go
together. There are some slight differences in
the passage, but instead, I just want to focus
on just the Mark account and look at what we
can learn there. And so it's an interesting passage
where, quite honestly, two of the disciples say
something. Make it outrageous for Christ. And
then the other disciples respond wildly, and
then all the time Jesus is being Jesus, be like...
Old humans. And loves on them and responds in
an incredible way. We're really grateful for
Christ's character in this. Oh, my God. Because,
like, dude, as we read this, and I think you
should read the whole text. I'm going to read
the passage. Yeah, I'm going to do it. Dude,
I see myself in every character of this story
other than Jesus sometimes. Isn't that how it
is? Yes. I mean, the majority of the time when
we read scripture. In fact, I feel like if we
ever feel like we are. the Jesus character or
the hero character of the story. Most of the
time we need to some self reflection. I think
we can align with them a little. That's why I
said most of the time, if it's most of the time,
like you got to realize like, okay, there's like,
am I being honest with myself? Although like,
like, reframing that a little though like even
the like the major like mountaintop characters
of scripture all of them have like oh darn moments
like where they completely just completely wreck
whatever is going on where they make huge mistakes
seriously yeah seriously yeah so thankful the
lord leaves those in there exactly that's a proof
incident. Like, like as a tangent, that's one
of the proofs that I see in scripture for the
veracity of scripture, like for the truth of
the, of the narrative and all that stuff. Cause
if you're writing a holy text, your main characters
don't make mistakes. No. If you're, if you're
coming up with something like, like from a human
perspective, you want them to be as squeaky clean
as possible. And it's like, the Lord's like,
nah, dude, this is how this actually went down.
And I'm the only perfect one in this story for
a reason. Exactly. And interestingly enough,
the two main characters is James and John. Yep.
So let's talk about what you just said, right?
James and John. The inner circle of Jesus. Sons
of Thunder, baby. Major characters among the
disciples. And you've got these two guys, and
they're called out by name for saying some wild
stuff. Yes. These guys saw the transfigured Jesus
on the mountain. Let's just look at John and
talk about not only John is an author of the
New Testament, not only with the Gospels, but
he also threw in some other books there as well
that have a little bit of significance. Undertone,
undertone, undertone. And yet we are seeing them
approach Jesus, which, like you just said, this
should be left out. If we were trying to make
these guys be like, hey, these are the guys you
need to follow for this new religion, leave this
part out, right? But the Bible doesn't do that.
And I love it. So yeah, we've talked about it.
Let's get into it. Starting in verse 35 of chapter
10 in the book of Mark. James and John, the sons
of Zebedee, approached him and said, Teacher.
So approached him, they approached Jesus. Teacher,
we want you to do whatever we ask of you. What
do you want me to do for you? Wow. He asked them.
They answered him, allow us to sit at your right.
and at your left in your glory. Jesus said to
them, you don't know what you're asking. Are
you able to drink the cup I drink or to be baptized
with the baptism I am baptized with? We are able,
they told him. Jesus said to them, you will drink
the cup I drink, and you will be baptized with
the baptism I am baptized with. But to sit at
my right or left is not mine to give. Instead,
it is for those for whom it has been prepared.
When the ten disciples heard this, they began
to be indignant. There's a word we looked at
last week. Indignant with James and John. Jesus
called them over and said to them, you know.
that those who are regarded as rulers of the
Gentiles lord it over them, and those in high
positions act as tyrants over them. But it is
not so among you. On the contrary, whoever wants
to become greatest among you will be your servant.
And whoever wants to be first among you will
be a slave to all, for even the Son of Man. did
not come to be served, but to serve and to give
his life as a ransom for many. All right, so
there's some interesting things going on here.
And first off, in Mark's recording, this is not
the first time that the disciples have had a
similar argument. If you go back just one chapter
in Mark chapter 9, there's a story of the disciples.
No one's named in this story, but the disciples
are arguing about who is the greatest. And so...
There seems to be a bit of a theme here with
the disciples. Once again, we're seeing their
worldly mindset, even as they follow Jesus. And
they're here, and they come up to Jesus. And
even how they phrase this question is just wild
to me. Like to say, teacher, we want you to do
whatever. We ask you. Because it's like a two
-part scheme. Because if Jesus says yes to question
one, then he's got to do question two. Yes. Yes.
And even just that question right there. Yeah.
Jesus' response, man. It's like, okay, what do
you want me to do for you? There's care and compassion
for his children. He's like, all right, let me
see this played out. Even though he knows what
they're about to ask. Exactly. It's like, I want
you to say this, because this is about... this
is the learning lesson here. Go ahead, ask me
what it is. And they answered, allow us to sit
at your right hand and at your left in your glory.
So here's what's interesting as I was reading
this is really they're asking for a position
of authority in his kingdom, right? He had just
finished talking about, what's so wild is he
just finished talking about like his death. They're
on their way. They're walking into Jerusalem.
If you pick it up in verse 32 and Jesus literally
just said, hey, by the way, we're going in Jerusalem
and I'm going to be here. handed over, condemned
to death. They're going to spit on me. They're
going to mock me. They're going to flog me. They're
going to kill me. But in three days, I'm going
to rise again. So can I sit at your right hand
and left hand? I mean, that's literally what
just happened, right? It's like they just completely...
But also we know that whenever Jesus talks about
his death, the disciples don't get it. Right.
It doesn't clock for them. Yeah. And so whether
that is a Holy Spirit thing of... blocking their
understanding until the time is right for them
you know we're not sure but definitely we see
here like they had something else on their mind
which i've definitely done as well where someone's
having a conversation with me but i'm thinking
about the thing i want to say to them next yeah
and i'm not fully tracking with what they're
saying and then i end up looking really really
dumb because i just said something that really
didn't go along with what just happened with
them and so maybe that's what happening either
way they just uh man, their timing here is crazy.
But yeah, what were you going to say? Well, so
what's interesting is that, so you're right.
Jesus is like right before this directly talking
about death, burial, resurrection. And so the
thing that stands out to me, they ask about it
in, they ask for their roles in glory. Yes. And
so like there's, is there some kind of understanding
of what's going on, but not really, but I don't,
I don't, I don't know, you know? Yeah. So I,
I spent a little bit of time reading a single
commentary, just kind of getting some background
on this. And the guy that wrote the commentary
had an interesting thought on this right here.
Allow us to sit at your right hand and your left
hand in glory. And he said that as Jews, they've
been under Roman oppression for so long, and
they've been wanting to get out from under that.
But here we almost see them having the same attitude
of they want to be in the position of Rome. They
want to be in the position of authority. It's
like, hey, it's now like, well, what position,
how can we rule over other people? How can we
be the ones that are leading the kingdom? Which
kind of makes sense when you then get to see
how Jesus compares their attitude to how Gentiles
lord over people. That's a good parallel. And
so I think that's why the commentator kind of
went with that. But I want to talk about Jesus'
response for a second. For sure. Because once
again, teaching moment here. but he uses some
symbolic language in their culture. They would
have understood, but we just translate it word
for word, essentially, right? And so it says,
you don't know what you're asking. Are you able
to drink the cup? I drink. And so that was known,
that phrase was known to be talking about suffering,
right? And so the one for baptized, though, I
think trips people up because we think of spiritual
baptism, but really what Jesus is talking about
is literally what the word means, and that's
to be plunged or to be... What's the word I'm
looking for? Dunked. Dunked. There we go. Thank
you. And so really what he's saying here, literally
he's saying, are you willing to be submerged
into suffering for me? Right? He's not talking
about actual baptism. He's talking about being
so heavily in suffering. Yeah. And that's what
they would have heard, right? For us, we have
to interpret it. Okay. But they're not doing
that. They're just hearing Jesus say, all right,
James, John. are you willing to suffer immeasurably
for me? And then, of course, they have this response,
and they said, you know. We are able. We got
this. We're able to do that. And I find that
interesting because I really find it's like one
of those, I really believe it's one of those
responses of like they don't really realize what
they're saying. They're like, oh, yeah, we got
this. You know, it's kind of like that macho
response. And then what is really interesting.
And what happens next is that Jesus confirms
it. He's like, oh, you are ready? Well, guess
what? You actually are going to suffer a lot.
And we know from church history that James and
John, in fact, all of the disciples, in fact,
I believe it's every disciple but John, according
to church history, was martyred for their faith.
And then John, we know that he was cast out onto
the island of Patmos, but he was tortured. And
so they all, They so were submerged in suffering
for their faith. And it's interesting. Both James
and John's sufferings were very different. So
James was martyred early in terms of the church.
I Googled this as you were talking because I
was thinking along the lines of them and their
suffering too. James was martyred maybe 10, 15
years after Jesus resurrected and left. So he
only had a little bit of time before he... paid
the price of martyrdom. Dude, John, it was like
another 40 years from where he was, you know?
And so like, even though that cup of suffering
was the same, it was different for both of the
guys. Yeah. And so here's what's interesting
too. Verse 41. When the ten disciples heard this,
they began to be indignant with James and John.
So here's the interesting thing. So the disciples
weren't mad at what they said. Yeah. The disciples
were mad that they got to Jesus first. That's
what it means when it says that they began to
be indignant with James and John. Once again,
so it's not just James and John that have this
attitude of, oh, wait, who gets to sit at your
left and right? It's all of them. Once again,
Mark chapter 9, they were all discussing who's
the greatest, and all of them are still dealing
with it. So Jesus is surrounded by these dudes,
acting like dudes, trying to figure out who is
the greatest still, who's going to be in the
seat of authority next to Jesus, and then you
get Jesus' response. Yeah. And once again, he
goes back, you know that those who are regarded
as rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them.
So he says, guys, you're acting like lost people.
You're acting like Gentiles. You're acting like
the Romans. I mean, imagine if that's how they
heard it, right? They're like, hey, you know
these guys that you hate that rule over you?
Guess what you're doing right now? You're acting
like them, right? But then in verse 43, but it's
not so among you. On the contrary. Whoever wants
to become greatest among you will be your servant.
And so Jesus is reminding them that what it means
to be a great leader. It's like, hey, all of
you can be leaders. You will be leaders, but
you're going to lead from a place of humility
and servanthood. And that's the lesson that Jesus
is teaching us today. And he starts with, and
it's his example, right? Verse 45, even the son
of man came not to be served, but to serve and
to give his life as a ransom. I mean, just think
about that, right? Yeah. So for even the son
of man, even God in human flesh, if anyone deserves
to be that person of authority or in that position
of ruling over, lording over, he says, that's
not why I came. No. Says. Right now I've come
as the lamb. Now the lion's going to come, but
right now it's the time for the lamb and I've
come to be a servant. Yeah. So what do you think
that means, not just for you and me sitting here
with the title of pastor, but for anybody who
is a Christian? Because I think there's a model
of Christian leadership here that extends outside
of Jesus and the disciples to anybody who would
claim the name of Christ. That servant leadership.
How do we differentiate I'm leading as a servant
from I do everything for everybody and everybody
else watches? I think it's a matter of how you
communicate with people. Yeah. And also the actions
that you take. Are you leading from behind a
desk on a phone? Or are you with your people,
showing them, being the example? Because that's
what Jesus is doing. Jesus showed them. He had
them follow him. Like I said, they're on their
way to Jerusalem. He has shown them how he reacts
with the Pharisees. He's shown them how he reacts
to the blind. He's shown them how he reacts to
the leper. He's shown them how he reacts to and
how he talks to the leaders of the synagogue.
And so he has been the example through his actions.
And that's what speaks loudest. And so for us,
as Christians, as pastors, our actions is what
speaks loudest. It's very easy. So going back
to us as pastors, it's easy for people to hear
us from a stage. from behind a pulpit with a
microphone for us around our ear, standing behind
a plexiglass podium and speaking to people. But
what is really going to matter is also what we
do off that stage. Yeah. And so what I hear you
saying is that it's not about the big public
actions. Where servant leadership comes in, it's
about the lifestyle that you lead. Yeah, and
this is one of the reasons that we've partnered
with Student Leadership University. Okay. You
know, taking it full circle. One of their mottos
is we want to teach students to lead from the
feet of Jesus. And so their motto, their thought
process is that every person has leadership capacity.
Leadership capacity, meaning some are meant to
lead over five, some are meant to lead over thousands.
There's leadership capacity. And that's good.
Yes, every person has leadership capacity, but
every person, and every person is called to be
a leader doesn't have to be the one with the
loudest in the room and hold the microphone.
That doesn't mean you're a leader just because
you're the loudest in the room. Heavens no. And
so they're teaching our students who they are
in. Christ so that they can become servant leaders.
And that's what I love about the organization.
Dude, that's awesome. You know what other thing
this text kind of makes me think of? So Jesus
sets himself up as the example for service and
leadership in this text, right? But often we
see the things that happen to Jesus and the things
that Jesus goes through are then repeated by
his followers. Of course, Like Jesus promises
this to James and John, right? But I think that
the Christian leadership ethic for us is the
exact same way. Think about it, dude. As we seek
to be a servant, as we seek to die to ourselves,
eventually we finish our race. We receive our
final promotion to heaven, and that is when he
glorifies us. I mean, dude, the book of 1 Thessalonians
are crazy for some of the things that they say.
We will judge the angels. Our servant leadership
here is in part to equip us for whatever role
he has for us in glory. I think it's one of the
things that shocked me a lot when I was studying
those books is that our work isn't over when
we stop drawing breath. It's that we're being
prepared for something new and better. Now, of
course, the way that we interface with work is
different because we're not under the creation
curse anymore, but it's Jesus who exalts us.
After we have been shaped by servanthood, then
he appoints us to a greater role. And I think
that to some degree, man, we all drink from this
cup and experience that baptism. Absolutely.
Suffering is... as general as it could be because
everybody suffers. And it is as specific as anything
else because it is down to how you suffer and
what you've experienced. Like in times where
I've gotten to talk with people who are hurting.
Not as a pastor, but as a friend, as just somebody
there. There have been times where they've shared
something with me and I've experienced something
worse in that area. And they're like, oh, well,
I can't even talk to you about this. I'm like,
no, no, no, no, no. This is not a race. The key
here, I think, is that when we... drink from
that cup, recognizing that he has drunk from
it first and that we're sharing in Christ's suffering.
And so he walks through those things with us
to shape us into his image. I love it, man. That's
a great thought. Thanks. I think the good reminder
as we begin to land this plane on this episode
is that suffering looks different for everybody.
Just because someone else is suffering might
seem... quote -unquote, worse than yours doesn't
nullify the suffering that you're going through
for Jesus or the suffering you're going through.
And it's a reminder that a call to be a Christian
is not a call to have a perfect life. Christ
says that we're going to take up our cross and
follow Him. And so we should come expecting to
realize that there's going to be troubles in
life, but there's no place I'd rather be than
suffering for Jesus. Yeah. And in that suffering,
he meets us and he shapes us to be more like
himself. And so as hard as that suffering is,
it's not purposeless. Nope, not at all. And like
you said, I believe that there is purpose on
this side of eternity and also the next. Absolutely.
So man, this has been a good conversation today.
Yeah, it's been a good conversation. I think
we started off a little wild. I'm excited to
see how you edit the wildness of this episode.
But man, we got into some good stuff. Yeah, it's...
landing the plane on something that touches all
of us is something that is good and encouraging
to me too. Yep. And I think, you know, I was
going to bring back the chant, but I don't think
it's appropriate right now. So we're just going
to say I've been Sean Griffin. And I've been
Ben Smith. And we love you guys. Have a great
week. We'll see you later. See you later, pursuers,
dudes, and dudettes. Pursuing Jesus is a ministry
of Memorial Baptist Church in Norwood, North
Carolina.