WEBVTT 00:00:04.100 --> 00:00:07.940 Good morning, Vietnam! I'm going to have to cut 00:00:07.940 --> 00:00:12.500 that. I'm going to leave that in. You should. 00:00:12.720 --> 00:00:17.760 Oh, man. That's from Robin Williams. Robin Williams. 00:00:17.800 --> 00:00:21.219 The late, the great Robin Williams. Listen, so 00:00:21.219 --> 00:00:23.539 here's what I hate about whenever I start talking. 00:00:23.660 --> 00:00:24.679 What you hate about Robin Williams? What I hate 00:00:24.679 --> 00:00:26.219 about talking about movies I have not seen in 00:00:26.219 --> 00:00:28.199 a long time. Okay. Because my memories of this 00:00:28.199 --> 00:00:31.260 movie, incredible movie. Okay. It could have 00:00:31.260 --> 00:00:33.679 horrible language. And I just don't remember, 00:00:33.979 --> 00:00:36.460 right? But from what I remember about that movie, 00:00:36.619 --> 00:00:38.640 it was like a really good, like Robin Williams, 00:00:38.799 --> 00:00:42.700 he's a comedic guy, but it's more of a dramatic 00:00:42.700 --> 00:00:44.920 role. But it's a good movie. Have you seen that 00:00:44.920 --> 00:00:47.219 movie? No, I haven't. Really? No, I haven't. 00:00:47.280 --> 00:00:49.560 That's one I think you should add to your list. 00:00:51.780 --> 00:00:56.000 That's the what is going on. I saw a movie this 00:00:56.000 --> 00:00:59.259 weekend. Yesterday. Yesterday. I watched a movie. 00:01:00.060 --> 00:01:03.000 that is an American classic that I feel like 00:01:03.000 --> 00:01:05.959 I am more American than I've ever been because 00:01:05.959 --> 00:01:08.400 I had never watched this movie before. What movie 00:01:08.400 --> 00:01:10.659 was this? For the very first time in my life. 00:01:10.780 --> 00:01:14.159 Yeah. I watched Smokey and the Bandit. Smokey 00:01:14.159 --> 00:01:17.480 and the Bandit. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Have you seen 00:01:17.480 --> 00:01:18.799 this movie? No, I haven't seen this movie. So 00:01:18.799 --> 00:01:21.579 it's one of those movies that I have heard just 00:01:21.579 --> 00:01:24.060 in our culture. Okay. In the culture. I've heard 00:01:24.060 --> 00:01:29.310 referenced countless times. I thought I knew 00:01:29.310 --> 00:01:32.569 what it was about. I had no idea what it was 00:01:32.569 --> 00:01:35.010 about. Now that you finished the movie, do you 00:01:35.010 --> 00:01:36.810 know what it's about? Did you ever get to that 00:01:36.810 --> 00:01:42.549 point? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. It was a 70s movie. 00:01:42.750 --> 00:01:47.069 So there was kind of a plot. Okay. And mainly 00:01:47.069 --> 00:01:51.670 it involved CB radios. Interesting. Like truck 00:01:51.670 --> 00:01:54.930 driving. I know what a CB radio is, Sean. You 00:01:54.930 --> 00:01:58.150 know, one of the interesting things... One interesting 00:01:58.150 --> 00:02:00.670 thing about coming to church here in Stanley 00:02:00.670 --> 00:02:04.189 County, coming from my background, is the things 00:02:04.189 --> 00:02:06.549 that people call stuff. There are different words 00:02:06.549 --> 00:02:09.550 for the same thing. It's English vocabulary, 00:02:09.689 --> 00:02:12.050 but it's different English vocabulary. It's regional 00:02:12.050 --> 00:02:15.610 differences, right? So the sandals that I'm prone 00:02:15.610 --> 00:02:19.189 to wear are called Chacos. It's the brand of 00:02:19.189 --> 00:02:22.590 sandals that they are, right? Every time I wear 00:02:22.590 --> 00:02:24.889 them in Stanley County, somebody will go, you 00:02:24.889 --> 00:02:27.939 got your Jesus shoes on. You know, you're doing 00:02:27.939 --> 00:02:31.219 what you can. So speaking of that, so like an 00:02:31.219 --> 00:02:34.860 actual illustration of that as well. Okay. It's 00:02:34.860 --> 00:02:36.819 like just one of those learning curves you get 00:02:36.819 --> 00:02:39.580 when you move to Stanley County. because when 00:02:39.580 --> 00:02:42.560 I moved here and I was learning all of the different 00:02:42.560 --> 00:02:46.219 areas around Norwood, my community, and I was 00:02:46.219 --> 00:02:48.879 very interested when I learned that there was 00:02:48.879 --> 00:02:54.199 an Aquedale here. What? Exactly. I was told very 00:02:54.199 --> 00:02:56.360 quickly, no, no, no, even though it is spelled 00:02:56.360 --> 00:03:00.979 Aquedale, it is it. Aquedale. Aquedale. It is 00:03:00.979 --> 00:03:03.539 Aquedale. So that was one that I got corrected 00:03:03.539 --> 00:03:07.240 very fast because I don't remember who I was 00:03:07.240 --> 00:03:09.800 talking to, but I remember referring to Aquedale 00:03:09.800 --> 00:03:12.560 to someone, and they looked at me like I was 00:03:12.560 --> 00:03:16.400 a foreigner because I was. Well, you've gotten 00:03:16.400 --> 00:03:20.680 your Aquedale on. There's somebody I was talking 00:03:20.680 --> 00:03:23.139 to as I was trying to get the dialect down that 00:03:23.139 --> 00:03:25.840 told me that their dad called it Ackydale. Ackydale? 00:03:26.080 --> 00:03:27.680 Ackydale. I'm not sure whether it was derived 00:03:27.680 --> 00:03:30.960 from, like, and you're saying the Q, Accudale, 00:03:31.080 --> 00:03:34.680 or if it's Accudale, A -C -K -Y -D -A -L -E. 00:03:34.840 --> 00:03:36.900 So the interesting thing is someone will have 00:03:36.900 --> 00:03:38.539 to brush me up on my Stanley County history. 00:03:38.680 --> 00:03:40.819 I believe from what I was told it was called 00:03:40.819 --> 00:03:43.080 that because there was an aqueduct running through 00:03:43.080 --> 00:03:45.659 that area or something like that. So it actually 00:03:45.659 --> 00:03:47.879 does have to do with water, and it really is 00:03:47.879 --> 00:03:50.039 aqua, but you don't pronounce it that way. Okay. 00:03:50.550 --> 00:03:52.409 You know what? That is good for me. That's good 00:03:52.409 --> 00:03:53.669 for me to know. Yeah, and you know what? This 00:03:53.669 --> 00:03:55.509 is good, because one of the things that I like 00:03:55.509 --> 00:03:57.150 about you, Ben, since you've been here, is you 00:03:57.150 --> 00:03:59.969 love to ask what you call culture questions. 00:04:00.090 --> 00:04:03.139 That is true. All the time. I mean, I don't even 00:04:03.139 --> 00:04:04.719 know if we've ever talked about this on the podcast. 00:04:04.840 --> 00:04:07.719 I don't think we have. Just so for our Pursuing 00:04:07.719 --> 00:04:11.180 Jesus listeners here, this is something that 00:04:11.180 --> 00:04:14.439 Ben has become famous for in the office. Because 00:04:14.439 --> 00:04:18.000 there's many times where he will walk into anyone 00:04:18.000 --> 00:04:21.839 and everyone's office, and he will open the dialogue 00:04:21.839 --> 00:04:24.529 by saying, I have a culture question. That's 00:04:24.529 --> 00:04:26.410 true. That's true. But they're all good, and 00:04:26.410 --> 00:04:28.910 they all make sense because it is. Because you 00:04:28.910 --> 00:04:32.170 go from church to church. You go to a different 00:04:32.170 --> 00:04:34.629 church. You go to a different region. There are 00:04:34.629 --> 00:04:36.730 things that they do different culturally, and 00:04:36.730 --> 00:04:38.310 it's good to learn those things. Well, I'll tell 00:04:38.310 --> 00:04:41.670 you this. At our last Triple L gathering for 00:04:41.670 --> 00:04:43.810 our - Triple L. Triple L. That's right. That's 00:04:43.810 --> 00:04:44.670 right. I don't know if anybody - That's how they 00:04:44.670 --> 00:04:47.290 refer to it all the time. Triple L. But at our 00:04:47.290 --> 00:04:49.970 last Triple L meeting, the Josies - shout out 00:04:49.970 --> 00:04:51.930 to the Josies, brought some delightful desserts. 00:04:52.230 --> 00:04:54.290 Oh, shout out to the Josies and their desserts. 00:04:54.430 --> 00:04:57.589 As they have been prone to do. Yes. What Oren 00:04:57.589 --> 00:05:00.730 and Nancy made this time was homemade cherry 00:05:00.730 --> 00:05:04.490 ice cream. Now, I have never had homemade ice 00:05:04.490 --> 00:05:08.949 cream before. Wait. What? This was my first time. 00:05:09.319 --> 00:05:12.579 In your entire life? In my miserable little life. 00:05:12.660 --> 00:05:15.560 You've never had homemade ice cream? Your reaction 00:05:15.560 --> 00:05:18.879 is the reaction that 20 separate people have 00:05:18.879 --> 00:05:22.379 to be saying that. And it was a dollar at once. 00:05:22.420 --> 00:05:24.560 It was a chain. Like I was sitting at a table. 00:05:24.560 --> 00:05:26.199 This didn't happen in front of everybody. No, 00:05:26.220 --> 00:05:29.139 I was sitting at a table with Cornelia Hatley 00:05:29.139 --> 00:05:31.379 and a couple other folks. And I was like, man, 00:05:31.420 --> 00:05:33.319 this is so good. I've never had homemade ice 00:05:33.319 --> 00:05:35.879 cream before. And Cornelia goes, you've never 00:05:35.879 --> 00:05:38.579 had homemade ice cream before? And she called. 00:05:38.639 --> 00:05:40.639 somebody else to the table and she's like ben's 00:05:40.639 --> 00:05:42.019 never had homemade ice cream before and that 00:05:42.019 --> 00:05:44.399 person said you've never had homemade ice cream 00:05:44.399 --> 00:05:46.860 before and like they kept it was a chain it was 00:05:46.860 --> 00:05:49.620 like a phone tree like they kept calling over 00:05:49.620 --> 00:05:52.019 more people and finally i was like no i'm not 00:05:52.019 --> 00:05:54.779 cultured like you guys i'm working on it homemade 00:05:54.779 --> 00:05:57.019 ice cream and by the way delightful delightful 00:05:57.019 --> 00:06:00.839 okay church church church okay we're having a 00:06:00.839 --> 00:06:02.639 moment right now church here's i need your help 00:06:02.639 --> 00:06:08.500 right now i need i need some people to come make 00:06:08.500 --> 00:06:10.899 homemade ice cream in different flavors and bring 00:06:10.899 --> 00:06:12.879 it to Ben. Now, when you do that, I'm going to 00:06:12.879 --> 00:06:16.100 request some too. But I'm not doing this selfishly 00:06:16.100 --> 00:06:18.379 all the way. I feel like you're doing this selfishly. 00:06:18.600 --> 00:06:23.040 This man needs to experience peach homemade ice 00:06:23.040 --> 00:06:25.939 cream for sure. For sure. At least peach. That 00:06:25.939 --> 00:06:29.240 is like a summer tradition. Really? Peach homemade 00:06:29.240 --> 00:06:32.019 ice cream. So this isn't new for you either. 00:06:32.259 --> 00:06:35.660 No. Interesting. Yeah. Hey, you know what? I 00:06:35.660 --> 00:06:37.220 think there was someone in the church that had 00:06:37.220 --> 00:06:38.980 like a cookies and cream homemade ice cream. 00:06:39.019 --> 00:06:40.740 That was really good. If I remember, I can't 00:06:40.740 --> 00:06:43.019 remember, but, uh, all right, church, y 'all 00:06:43.019 --> 00:06:45.100 got to help me culture this guy. Well, so, so 00:06:45.100 --> 00:06:49.339 here, so counteroffer. Okay. The next, the next 00:06:49.339 --> 00:06:52.319 church gathering, the next time that we have 00:06:52.319 --> 00:06:55.040 like a potluck or something, like, I think that 00:06:55.040 --> 00:06:57.740 we should announce to all the folks at the church, 00:06:57.759 --> 00:07:00.139 like, like for desserts, bring your homemade 00:07:00.139 --> 00:07:03.290 ice cream. We can have a homemade ice cream competition. 00:07:03.430 --> 00:07:06.209 So I'm pretty sure. I want to be one of the judges. 00:07:08.029 --> 00:07:11.610 We can have the staff judge it. Yes. Yes. 100%. 00:07:11.610 --> 00:07:15.589 I'm behind this idea now. You know, but if you're 00:07:15.589 --> 00:07:17.769 going to do that, you're going to have a homemade 00:07:17.769 --> 00:07:19.730 ice cream competition. We're going to have a 00:07:19.730 --> 00:07:21.089 good prize. I don't know what that would be. 00:07:21.149 --> 00:07:22.930 Ooh. All right. We're going to have to think 00:07:22.930 --> 00:07:24.230 on that one. We have to think with them. Yeah. 00:07:24.350 --> 00:07:26.670 For the time being, are you ready to dive into 00:07:26.670 --> 00:07:29.319 a little bit of scripture, Sean? You know. That 00:07:29.319 --> 00:07:31.279 is why we're here. We're here to pursue Jesus. 00:07:31.699 --> 00:07:33.180 Through homemade ice cream. Through homemade 00:07:33.180 --> 00:07:36.060 ice cream. Listen, Jesus put us on this earth 00:07:36.060 --> 00:07:39.399 to enjoy some of the things of the earth, to 00:07:39.399 --> 00:07:41.199 enjoy. I mean, even like you look at the Psalms. 00:07:41.220 --> 00:07:43.579 Yeah. I mean, you look at the Psalms and the 00:07:43.579 --> 00:07:45.920 joy that they received from different parts of 00:07:45.920 --> 00:07:49.199 nature. Oh, taste. And see that the Lord is good. 00:07:49.500 --> 00:07:52.519 Man, you know. But like, if you think about it. 00:07:52.750 --> 00:07:55.750 If you think about it, God didn't have to make, 00:07:55.889 --> 00:07:59.029 and I'm being legitimately serious, God didn't 00:07:59.029 --> 00:08:02.949 have to make our world in color. 100%. I understand 00:08:02.949 --> 00:08:04.149 where you're going with this. There are animals 00:08:04.149 --> 00:08:06.769 that you have rods and cones in your eyes. The 00:08:06.769 --> 00:08:08.529 cones are how you see color. The rods are how 00:08:08.529 --> 00:08:10.689 you see black and white. There are animals that 00:08:10.689 --> 00:08:12.470 live perfectly functional lives. I think maybe 00:08:12.470 --> 00:08:14.490 dogs are some of them. I've heard dogs. That 00:08:14.490 --> 00:08:16.509 they see in black and white. God didn't have 00:08:16.509 --> 00:08:19.139 to make color. God chose to make color as part 00:08:19.139 --> 00:08:22.360 of his creative expression. God didn't have to 00:08:22.360 --> 00:08:25.120 make taste. There are plenty of other organisms 00:08:25.120 --> 00:08:27.540 in this world that either don't have a tongue 00:08:27.540 --> 00:08:30.680 or don't taste or any of these things. They are 00:08:30.680 --> 00:08:34.299 ways of enjoying his goodness and his creativity. 00:08:34.700 --> 00:08:37.279 Those can be spiritual things. I think that's 00:08:37.279 --> 00:08:39.139 part of eating and drinking to the glory of God. 00:08:39.259 --> 00:08:41.480 I think it's in 1st or 2nd Corinthians where 00:08:41.480 --> 00:08:45.399 we actually can engage in worship by enjoying 00:08:45.399 --> 00:08:50.360 good things. I noticed this in some church traditions 00:08:50.360 --> 00:08:54.559 where renouncing things just for the sake of 00:08:54.559 --> 00:08:58.899 renouncing them is spiritualized. The historical 00:08:58.899 --> 00:09:03.200 word for that is asceticism. Not anesthetism 00:09:03.200 --> 00:09:06.960 or aesthetics, but asceticism. Yes. But they 00:09:06.960 --> 00:09:11.440 renounced everything like, that is good, I don't 00:09:11.440 --> 00:09:12.799 want it. That is good, I don't want it. That 00:09:12.799 --> 00:09:15.259 is good, I don't want it. One of the ways that 00:09:15.259 --> 00:09:17.500 we enjoy God is enjoying the good things that 00:09:17.500 --> 00:09:20.080 he's given us, including homemade ice cream. 00:09:21.240 --> 00:09:25.220 Amen and a -women, as you would say. I've never 00:09:25.220 --> 00:09:27.879 said that before. I'm pretty sure you have. Luke 00:09:27.879 --> 00:09:32.200 14, 25 through 33. Let's get into the text, Sean. 00:09:32.399 --> 00:09:34.879 Oh, man. You know what? Yeah, let's get into 00:09:34.879 --> 00:09:39.399 it. So this is June 8th's passage from the Pursuing 00:09:39.399 --> 00:09:45.399 Jesus devotional. And the title, that the Bible 00:09:45.399 --> 00:09:48.019 I was using gives this section is called The 00:09:48.019 --> 00:09:52.139 Cost of Following Jesus. Yep. And there's a couple 00:09:52.139 --> 00:09:55.740 things that I want to point out. First off, here's 00:09:55.740 --> 00:09:57.980 the very first thing I noticed. So it starts 00:09:57.980 --> 00:10:02.120 in Luke 14, verse 25, as you said, and literally 00:10:02.120 --> 00:10:04.000 one of the first few words, right? It says, now 00:10:04.000 --> 00:10:07.240 great crowds were traveling with him. Now that's 00:10:07.240 --> 00:10:10.860 interesting to me. Okay. Right? Because Jesus... 00:10:11.810 --> 00:10:14.409 Sometimes when we picture Jesus because of Sunday 00:10:14.409 --> 00:10:16.230 school lessons or whatever, a lot of times I 00:10:16.230 --> 00:10:18.870 feel like people just picture 12 dudes just chugging 00:10:18.870 --> 00:10:21.690 along with him and just walking along. And there 00:10:21.690 --> 00:10:25.370 was times when it was just him and his close 00:10:25.370 --> 00:10:28.549 disciples or the apostles. And that's actually 00:10:28.549 --> 00:10:29.929 something funny that I'm going to get off on 00:10:29.929 --> 00:10:31.710 a tangent on real quick because I was talking 00:10:31.710 --> 00:10:34.129 to my students the other day, and there was some 00:10:34.129 --> 00:10:37.529 of them, and they were like, so Jesus had 12 00:10:37.529 --> 00:10:40.440 disciples? And I was like... Kind of, you know, 00:10:40.440 --> 00:10:42.460 and I had to explain to them that, you know, 00:10:42.480 --> 00:10:45.240 we interchanged the word disciple and apostle 00:10:45.240 --> 00:10:47.879 a lot just because of our culture and how we 00:10:47.879 --> 00:10:50.659 refer to these guys. But I had to let them know, 00:10:50.740 --> 00:10:53.139 like, no, there was 12 apostles. There was 12 00:10:53.139 --> 00:10:56.120 dudes that were set aside for a specific purpose, 00:10:56.179 --> 00:10:59.820 for a specific ministry. But Jesus had multiple 00:10:59.820 --> 00:11:03.679 disciples and disciples, but also just people 00:11:03.679 --> 00:11:05.419 that followed him because he did cool stuff. 00:11:05.960 --> 00:11:09.240 And he had many faithful disciples outside of 00:11:09.240 --> 00:11:11.679 the 12. I think it's Luke 8 that talks about 00:11:11.679 --> 00:11:15.620 the three ladies that followed him that bankrolled 00:11:15.620 --> 00:11:18.539 his ministry, which is a crazy thing. I had never 00:11:18.539 --> 00:11:21.740 read that until recently. But maybe it's in Mark 00:11:21.740 --> 00:11:24.580 when he sends out the 72. Yeah, exactly. He gives 00:11:24.580 --> 00:11:26.000 them authority to cast out demons and to heal. 00:11:26.100 --> 00:11:30.299 We talked about that 18 podcasts ago. But Jesus 00:11:30.299 --> 00:11:33.610 had many disciples. He had 12 apostles. It's 00:11:33.610 --> 00:11:35.470 just a good, healthy reminder as we interchange 00:11:35.470 --> 00:11:38.970 terminology in our modern context through preaching 00:11:38.970 --> 00:11:41.210 and teaching and things. Just remember, no, there 00:11:41.210 --> 00:11:44.139 was a lot of disciples. Yeah. But here. There's 00:11:44.139 --> 00:11:46.440 a specific word used, and it's not disciples. 00:11:46.460 --> 00:11:49.440 Okay. It's crowds. Yeah. And so a lot of times 00:11:49.440 --> 00:11:50.659 when you look at the Gospels, you're going to 00:11:50.659 --> 00:11:54.240 see different terminology used to describe the 00:11:54.240 --> 00:11:56.419 people that are following Jesus or that are around 00:11:56.419 --> 00:11:58.539 Jesus at the time of whatever's taking place. 00:11:59.080 --> 00:12:02.720 Whenever it refers to crowds, that means that 00:12:02.720 --> 00:12:06.100 there are people with him. One, there are disciples 00:12:06.100 --> 00:12:08.220 there. Yep. However many, we don't know, but 00:12:08.220 --> 00:12:10.399 there's disciples. But that means there's people 00:12:10.399 --> 00:12:12.879 that are following him at this moment that have 00:12:12.879 --> 00:12:16.659 become awestruck by maybe we could call it the 00:12:16.659 --> 00:12:19.440 entertainment of Jesus. Or just interested. The 00:12:19.440 --> 00:12:21.480 miracles. Like he's doing stuff and they're like, 00:12:21.559 --> 00:12:23.919 that was cool. I want to keep seeing more of 00:12:23.919 --> 00:12:25.659 this, right? Or even just a seeking understanding 00:12:25.659 --> 00:12:28.179 of like, how did this happen? I need to understand 00:12:28.179 --> 00:12:33.159 more. But understanding that, now reading the 00:12:33.159 --> 00:12:36.090 passage to see what he's about to say. is very 00:12:36.090 --> 00:12:39.350 interesting. For sure. Especially in our modern 00:12:39.350 --> 00:12:41.970 church context. So we'll get to that in a second. 00:12:42.110 --> 00:12:45.210 But let me just read. Let me read the words in 00:12:45.210 --> 00:12:47.809 red, if you will, and start in verse 26 and see 00:12:47.809 --> 00:12:49.990 what he does when he turns around, looks at the 00:12:49.990 --> 00:12:52.330 crowd, and then immediately turning around, looking 00:12:52.330 --> 00:12:55.659 at the crowd, says this. Verse 26. If anyone 00:12:55.659 --> 00:12:59.179 comes to me and does not hate his own father 00:12:59.179 --> 00:13:03.100 and mother, wife and child, brothers and sisters, 00:13:03.220 --> 00:13:06.159 yes, even his own life, he cannot be my disciple. 00:13:06.399 --> 00:13:08.980 All right, let's just pause there. That's enough 00:13:08.980 --> 00:13:13.620 for now. Pardon? I mean, just imagine you're 00:13:13.620 --> 00:13:16.340 one of the crowds, not the disciple. You're the 00:13:16.340 --> 00:13:18.919 interested. Like I said, multiple reasons you're 00:13:18.919 --> 00:13:22.070 there. You could be very interested in wanting 00:13:22.070 --> 00:13:24.129 to seek and learn more, or you could be just 00:13:24.129 --> 00:13:27.029 following because you have no other thing else 00:13:27.029 --> 00:13:28.169 to do in your life, and you're just following. 00:13:28.269 --> 00:13:29.370 Like, whatever. I don't know. We don't know the 00:13:29.370 --> 00:13:32.149 reasons, but it is a crowd of people. Correct. 00:13:32.190 --> 00:13:35.370 And Jesus sees a crowd of people following him 00:13:35.370 --> 00:13:42.750 and drops one of the most crazy lines in Scripture, 00:13:43.070 --> 00:13:48.440 you know, and just says, hey. You really want 00:13:48.440 --> 00:13:52.200 to follow me? All right, cool. Hate your family, 00:13:52.259 --> 00:13:53.460 hate all this, hate all this, hate all this. 00:13:53.799 --> 00:13:59.879 And we know from looking, this is why it's important 00:13:59.879 --> 00:14:03.039 to look at Scripture, even the Gospels, as a 00:14:03.039 --> 00:14:05.940 total story. Yeah. Right? Because this could 00:14:05.940 --> 00:14:08.679 very easily be taken out of context. Yeah, this 00:14:08.679 --> 00:14:10.480 is one of the passages that people struggle with. 00:14:10.559 --> 00:14:13.360 They do, because they read just this. they'll 00:14:13.360 --> 00:14:15.799 have someone on TikTok say, hey, go read that 00:14:15.799 --> 00:14:20.000 one verse. And look, it's words in red. You see 00:14:20.000 --> 00:14:22.620 what Jesus just said there? Oh my gosh, is that 00:14:22.620 --> 00:14:25.240 the Jesus you want to follow? And they'll call 00:14:25.240 --> 00:14:27.779 it a contradiction too because of the Ten Commandments. 00:14:27.799 --> 00:14:30.600 Honor your father and mother that it may go well 00:14:30.600 --> 00:14:32.919 with you and your days be long. Right. But when 00:14:32.919 --> 00:14:36.460 we look even at this entire story and we look 00:14:36.460 --> 00:14:38.960 at the other parables that he's about to share, 00:14:39.159 --> 00:14:43.159 that's what he's doing. He's giving an example 00:14:43.159 --> 00:14:46.419 of the cost of discipleship. And he's showing 00:14:46.419 --> 00:14:49.200 like, hey, if you really want to follow me, if 00:14:49.200 --> 00:14:52.039 you want to, I mean, you've got to be willing 00:14:52.039 --> 00:14:54.500 to lay down your life for me is ultimately where 00:14:54.500 --> 00:14:56.919 he's eventually going to go with this. And it's 00:14:56.919 --> 00:15:00.259 showing that in comparison. To the love that 00:15:00.259 --> 00:15:02.320 you have for your family, the love that even 00:15:02.320 --> 00:15:05.639 you have for your wife. That was one of the things 00:15:05.639 --> 00:15:09.240 that as you get deeper into Christian culture, 00:15:09.320 --> 00:15:11.000 you forget some of the things that you say and 00:15:11.000 --> 00:15:14.019 how wild they are. Because one of the things 00:15:14.019 --> 00:15:17.440 that I say and that I truly believe is that my 00:15:17.440 --> 00:15:19.000 relationship with the Lord is more important 00:15:19.000 --> 00:15:22.379 than the relationship with my wife. And me saying 00:15:22.379 --> 00:15:25.220 that within the church walls, people are like, 00:15:25.220 --> 00:15:28.649 amen, right? Yeah, we get it. But people outside 00:15:28.649 --> 00:15:31.129 the church don't understand that. Well, how could 00:15:31.129 --> 00:15:33.590 they? Exactly. Because they're like, whoa, hold 00:15:33.590 --> 00:15:36.970 on. That's pinnacle relationship right there. 00:15:36.990 --> 00:15:38.669 That's a very intimate relationship, and all 00:15:38.669 --> 00:15:40.309 of a sudden you're saying that there's another 00:15:40.309 --> 00:15:43.169 relationship more important to that? Right. And 00:15:43.169 --> 00:15:45.090 so I think that's also one of the things that 00:15:45.090 --> 00:15:49.470 as we... as we Christianese so much stuff, and 00:15:49.470 --> 00:15:51.830 as we speak within our Christian circles, it's 00:15:51.830 --> 00:15:54.250 important to remember that sometimes we say things 00:15:54.250 --> 00:15:55.850 and people don't understand what we're saying, 00:15:55.990 --> 00:15:57.750 because just because we're used to it doesn't 00:15:57.750 --> 00:15:59.889 mean... I mean, going back to the vocabulary 00:15:59.889 --> 00:16:02.850 of Norwood and the culture questions, there's 00:16:02.850 --> 00:16:04.450 things that we do within our Christian culture 00:16:04.450 --> 00:16:10.090 that look really weird on the outside. And it's 00:16:10.090 --> 00:16:12.070 kind of one of those things, but I love... And 00:16:12.070 --> 00:16:13.789 it's true, and my wife will say the same thing. 00:16:14.360 --> 00:16:16.440 And it is. And the reason we say that, the reason 00:16:16.440 --> 00:16:18.220 that I say that my relationship with Jesus is 00:16:18.220 --> 00:16:19.700 more important than my wife and the reason that 00:16:19.700 --> 00:16:21.559 my wife will say the relationship with Jesus 00:16:21.559 --> 00:16:23.440 is more important than me is because we have 00:16:23.440 --> 00:16:26.320 fully realized within our 19 years of marriage 00:16:26.320 --> 00:16:28.899 that we've gone through that the closer we are 00:16:28.899 --> 00:16:31.419 to Jesus separately and then the closer we are 00:16:31.419 --> 00:16:33.940 to Jesus together, the better we are together. 00:16:34.259 --> 00:16:36.480 Yeah. I mean, I've heard that described as a 00:16:36.480 --> 00:16:39.120 triangle, right? You're both moving towards Jesus, 00:16:39.179 --> 00:16:41.480 and as you move towards Jesus, you move closer 00:16:41.480 --> 00:16:44.299 to yourself, or to each other, rather. And it's 00:16:44.299 --> 00:16:48.100 one of those things that it is, I think it's 00:16:48.100 --> 00:16:53.759 hard to grasp. Until you experience it. And then 00:16:53.759 --> 00:16:56.419 you realize, oh, I understand what they were 00:16:56.419 --> 00:16:59.720 saying now. You can see the concept, and I think 00:16:59.720 --> 00:17:02.639 you can have a knowledge of it, of a knowledge 00:17:02.639 --> 00:17:05.539 understanding of that concept of growing closer. 00:17:05.640 --> 00:17:08.160 But then when you really do it, and you really 00:17:08.160 --> 00:17:12.200 make that a part of your marriage life, it's 00:17:12.200 --> 00:17:14.980 like, oh, wow. I didn't realize that our marriage 00:17:14.980 --> 00:17:18.119 could get this much better. I wonder, though, 00:17:18.180 --> 00:17:21.630 doesn't that... premise also apply to the other 00:17:21.630 --> 00:17:25.349 areas of our lives though. I mean, so as we are 00:17:25.349 --> 00:17:29.190 following Jesus and pursuing Jesus, the other 00:17:29.190 --> 00:17:32.509 areas of our lives change too. I mean, like if 00:17:32.509 --> 00:17:35.970 you're working in the church or out of the church, 00:17:36.150 --> 00:17:40.329 you're a better employee in some ways. You're 00:17:40.329 --> 00:17:43.410 more honest. You're more willing to show grace 00:17:43.410 --> 00:17:46.390 and mercy to people. You're willing to own up 00:17:46.390 --> 00:17:48.250 to your wrongs because you recognize that you're 00:17:48.250 --> 00:17:51.500 a sinful human being. the more that you pursue 00:17:51.500 --> 00:17:55.140 Jesus. And so I think that premise is more evident 00:17:55.140 --> 00:17:59.640 in marriage because conflict is more obvious 00:17:59.640 --> 00:18:02.559 in marriage. You live with the person you're 00:18:02.559 --> 00:18:06.019 fighting with. There is no escape. I think that's 00:18:06.019 --> 00:18:09.259 real though. One of the other things about this 00:18:09.259 --> 00:18:13.920 verse 25 that is interesting to me, because I 00:18:13.920 --> 00:18:18.809 was reading up on this and... The Greek and Hebrew 00:18:18.809 --> 00:18:21.869 here for the word hate is different than the 00:18:21.869 --> 00:18:24.670 hate that we have in the English language. Ooh, 00:18:24.750 --> 00:18:26.549 let's hear about this. I won't be able to say 00:18:26.549 --> 00:18:29.269 the Hebrew words or the Greek words, but this 00:18:29.269 --> 00:18:33.569 is a callback to when the book of Hebrews says 00:18:33.569 --> 00:18:39.470 that God hated Esau but loved Jacob. The Hebrew 00:18:39.470 --> 00:18:43.309 here doesn't indicate what we would indicate 00:18:43.309 --> 00:18:46.799 as hate and love. It refers to... it refers to 00:18:46.799 --> 00:18:50.900 dramatic choice. And so Jesus isn't saying, man, 00:18:51.000 --> 00:18:53.539 I got to hate my dad, or you got to hate your 00:18:53.539 --> 00:18:55.440 mom, or you got to hate your wife or your kids, 00:18:55.460 --> 00:18:58.359 your brothers, because elsewhere in scripture, 00:18:58.480 --> 00:19:01.259 we know it says love one another. Fathers don't 00:19:01.259 --> 00:19:03.920 provoke your kids to anger. Husbands love your 00:19:03.920 --> 00:19:07.200 wives as Christ loved the church, but it's a 00:19:07.200 --> 00:19:11.259 question of priority. Yeah. how do I see my marriage 00:19:11.259 --> 00:19:13.539 compared to this? How do I see my family compared 00:19:13.539 --> 00:19:16.940 to this? How do I see my obedience to my parents 00:19:16.940 --> 00:19:20.859 compared to this? Because if we love any of those 00:19:20.859 --> 00:19:24.680 things more than Jesus, those become the gods 00:19:24.680 --> 00:19:27.440 in our lives. And when there's a conflict between 00:19:27.440 --> 00:19:31.400 what God wants me to do and what my idealized 00:19:31.400 --> 00:19:34.599 relationship with my parents, my idealized kids. 00:19:35.309 --> 00:19:37.130 or my idealized marriage, when that conflict 00:19:37.130 --> 00:19:41.309 comes, it's idolatry if we choose our family 00:19:41.309 --> 00:19:45.289 over that. But through Jesus, we can love those 00:19:45.289 --> 00:19:47.730 things in their right place. Yeah. Because they 00:19:47.730 --> 00:19:51.700 are dramatically important. And the roles of 00:19:51.700 --> 00:19:54.400 marriage, the roles of fatherhood and motherhood, 00:19:54.460 --> 00:19:57.119 the roles of being faithful, honorable children 00:19:57.119 --> 00:19:59.900 are all designed by God. And so I think that, 00:19:59.920 --> 00:20:03.400 and obviously, Jesus sets up each of these stories 00:20:03.400 --> 00:20:06.940 for a purpose. So he just laid the foundation, 00:20:07.220 --> 00:20:09.880 right? He laid the foundation of, okay, this 00:20:09.880 --> 00:20:12.579 is what a relationship with me looks like. And 00:20:12.579 --> 00:20:15.000 then he really goes into a story of truly... 00:20:15.470 --> 00:20:18.309 talking about counting the cost, right? So verse 00:20:18.309 --> 00:20:21.690 28, he says, for which of you wanting to build 00:20:21.690 --> 00:20:24.930 a tower does not first sit down and calculate 00:20:24.930 --> 00:20:27.930 the cost to see if he has had enough to complete 00:20:27.930 --> 00:20:30.569 it. Otherwise, after he has laid the foundation 00:20:30.569 --> 00:20:33.049 and cannot finish it, all the onlookers will 00:20:33.049 --> 00:20:35.869 begin to ridicule him saying, this man started 00:20:35.869 --> 00:20:38.769 to build and wasn't able to finish. And so once 00:20:38.769 --> 00:20:41.170 again, you've got this language with the crowd 00:20:41.170 --> 00:20:43.799 present. Very important context of who he's speaking 00:20:43.799 --> 00:20:46.160 to. And he's letting these guys know, hey, this 00:20:46.160 --> 00:20:47.839 is what this relationship is going to look like. 00:20:47.920 --> 00:20:50.740 And also, are you really willing to commit that? 00:20:51.339 --> 00:20:57.039 Think about what I'm saying. Think about the 00:20:57.039 --> 00:21:02.240 cost. Are you willing to go that far? And I think 00:21:02.240 --> 00:21:04.660 that's so important. And once again, going to 00:21:04.660 --> 00:21:08.640 our modern American Christian context, many times 00:21:08.640 --> 00:21:12.420 we, even if it's like... Especially within the 00:21:12.420 --> 00:21:15.900 SBC circles, we like to bash on prosperity gospel. 00:21:16.420 --> 00:21:18.920 It is what it is. And I'm not saying I agree 00:21:18.920 --> 00:21:20.940 with prosperity gospel, but it's just one of 00:21:20.940 --> 00:21:24.539 those easy targets within our church culture. 00:21:25.390 --> 00:21:28.430 But at the same time, I feel like there's those 00:21:28.430 --> 00:21:31.869 little pieces of like, well, if I come to Jesus, 00:21:31.970 --> 00:21:34.630 my life's going to be better. That happens within 00:21:34.630 --> 00:21:37.990 even our church context. Yeah. We think all of 00:21:37.990 --> 00:21:39.809 our problems are going to be solved. You know, 00:21:39.890 --> 00:21:42.009 you hear like, oh, come to Jesus and everything's 00:21:42.009 --> 00:21:43.349 going to be good. Everything's going to be right. 00:21:43.450 --> 00:21:46.250 And there is a portion of that because of our 00:21:46.250 --> 00:21:49.250 heart and because of how much we love him. But 00:21:49.250 --> 00:21:50.410 that doesn't mean we're not going to go through 00:21:50.410 --> 00:21:52.970 hard times. Well, that's workspace faith. Yes. 00:21:53.529 --> 00:21:56.349 At the end of the day, that is transactional. 00:21:56.829 --> 00:22:00.430 You give me what I need, so I give you what you 00:22:00.430 --> 00:22:03.470 need. I do the right thing enough of the time 00:22:03.470 --> 00:22:06.410 for you to bless me. I've got a dear friend of 00:22:06.410 --> 00:22:10.789 mine who's wrestling with that right now. I don't 00:22:10.789 --> 00:22:12.450 think he listens to this podcast, but I'm not 00:22:12.450 --> 00:22:16.089 going to drop his name. But he's had some really 00:22:16.089 --> 00:22:18.390 hard things happen over the past couple of years. 00:22:18.710 --> 00:22:21.269 Dude lost his mom. He was in the hospital for 00:22:21.269 --> 00:22:25.440 a couple of months. And he's like, why would 00:22:25.440 --> 00:22:29.319 God let this happen even though I've been so 00:22:29.319 --> 00:22:34.339 faithful? And it's hard because the principle 00:22:34.339 --> 00:22:37.599 we see in this text, Jesus has a lot of ands, 00:22:37.599 --> 00:22:40.440 right? Going back to 26. Does not hate his father 00:22:40.440 --> 00:22:43.220 and mother and wife and children and brothers 00:22:43.220 --> 00:22:49.130 and sisters. Yes, even his own life. The price 00:22:49.130 --> 00:22:52.210 of discipleship involves our relationships with 00:22:52.210 --> 00:22:55.329 our family, but the pinnacle of the price of 00:22:55.329 --> 00:22:58.930 discipleship is our own lives. And so setting 00:22:58.930 --> 00:23:01.890 those in Jesus' hands is really hard, particularly 00:23:01.890 --> 00:23:05.930 when we go through hard things in his hands. 00:23:06.089 --> 00:23:08.109 Yeah, man, that's a really good thought. I'm 00:23:08.109 --> 00:23:10.869 glad you added that little bit on there. That's 00:23:10.869 --> 00:23:15.049 good for us to think about. There is a cost. 00:23:15.230 --> 00:23:17.289 There is a cost. There is a cost to following 00:23:17.289 --> 00:23:19.150 Jesus. And that's something that we need to be 00:23:19.150 --> 00:23:24.029 aware of. That the closer you get to Jesus, the 00:23:24.029 --> 00:23:26.190 more you're going to see that cost. But the first 00:23:26.190 --> 00:23:30.509 cost has been paid and will continue to be paid. 00:23:30.710 --> 00:23:34.009 Yeah. Like Jesus paid the first cost for us. 00:23:34.049 --> 00:23:37.470 With his lifeblood and his perfect life, he conquered 00:23:37.470 --> 00:23:42.670 sin and death. And so as we are... What did you 00:23:42.670 --> 00:23:47.569 say? Bearing our own cross? Yeah. Jesus took 00:23:47.569 --> 00:23:51.769 the first cross and in a very real sense is still 00:23:51.769 --> 00:23:56.069 bearing that cross with us and for us and in 00:23:56.069 --> 00:24:02.700 us and through us. Jesus paid that cost for us, 00:24:02.740 --> 00:24:06.500 and he continues to work in us. Because, I mean, 00:24:06.539 --> 00:24:08.400 like, man, I don't know about you, I think that 00:24:08.400 --> 00:24:10.680 he's the one who gives us the strength to die 00:24:10.680 --> 00:24:15.099 to ourselves. That is not in my nature. And I 00:24:15.099 --> 00:24:19.519 think that it is... Not in human nature. I'm 00:24:19.519 --> 00:24:21.380 hoping that problem is not generic just to Ben 00:24:21.380 --> 00:24:24.559 Smith. Because Jesus paid that cost, we can say, 00:24:24.799 --> 00:24:27.279 Lord, I love you more than the rest of these 00:24:27.279 --> 00:24:30.140 things. Will you help me love you more than the 00:24:30.140 --> 00:24:32.700 rest of these things? And so this is kind of 00:24:32.700 --> 00:24:34.599 getting to the point of what I believe is this 00:24:34.599 --> 00:24:38.980 passage, because when I look at my life and I 00:24:38.980 --> 00:24:45.420 look at things that maybe I have missed out on, 00:24:45.769 --> 00:24:49.109 We'll say that in quotes, right? Because of my 00:24:49.109 --> 00:24:51.410 love for Jesus, there has been sacrifices in 00:24:51.410 --> 00:24:55.849 my life. Because I care more about following 00:24:55.849 --> 00:25:00.009 Jesus than fulfilling whatever those things are. 00:25:00.269 --> 00:25:05.089 But I don't care, right? So there's been a cost. 00:25:05.690 --> 00:25:08.190 There's been things, and it was more obvious. 00:25:08.589 --> 00:25:11.190 The cost was more obvious when I was younger. 00:25:11.640 --> 00:25:14.000 when I was farther away from Jesus, when I was 00:25:14.000 --> 00:25:17.059 beginning to leave my worldly life and I was 00:25:17.059 --> 00:25:19.759 beginning to follow Jesus because as my desires 00:25:19.759 --> 00:25:24.059 were changing, there's still that inkling of 00:25:24.059 --> 00:25:27.539 going back that we all deal with, that we all 00:25:27.539 --> 00:25:30.480 wrestle with. But the closer I get to Jesus, 00:25:30.740 --> 00:25:34.140 the more those desires have changed and more 00:25:34.140 --> 00:25:36.779 they are fulfilled in my relationship with Him. 00:25:37.509 --> 00:25:39.869 I just had a conversation with a dude this morning 00:25:39.869 --> 00:25:43.930 at the gym. It was a guy that has gone to our 00:25:43.930 --> 00:25:47.069 church. He still says he goes to our church, 00:25:47.089 --> 00:25:49.049 but he hasn't been in months. That kind of situation. 00:25:49.430 --> 00:25:52.289 And his life just fell apart. I mean, just stuff 00:25:52.289 --> 00:25:55.470 was happening, stuff was happening. And you could 00:25:55.470 --> 00:25:58.430 see how broken he was. And he says, you know, 00:25:58.569 --> 00:26:02.589 I ran back to smoking. I've been dealing with 00:26:02.589 --> 00:26:05.720 my anxiety because I went back to smoking. And 00:26:05.720 --> 00:26:07.680 you could see him wrestling and knowing that 00:26:07.680 --> 00:26:10.980 it was not the right choice, not the right thing 00:26:10.980 --> 00:26:17.920 to run to. But to see just him just having an 00:26:17.920 --> 00:26:20.019 honest moment in the parking lot of Planet Fitness 00:26:20.019 --> 00:26:22.039 was interesting. Praise God for it. Absolutely. 00:26:22.740 --> 00:26:25.759 Because you know what he's doing. Yes. Even in 00:26:25.759 --> 00:26:27.859 that conversation, dude's counting the cost. 00:26:28.000 --> 00:26:36.259 Yes. That internal battle of weighing. what do 00:26:36.259 --> 00:26:39.460 I do with the circumstances that I've been presented 00:26:39.460 --> 00:26:42.720 with, the things that I'm wrestling with? I mean, 00:26:42.759 --> 00:26:47.039 that's verse 33. Therefore, if any one of you 00:26:47.039 --> 00:26:49.779 who does not renounce all he has cannot be my 00:26:49.779 --> 00:26:53.460 disciple. And once again, I've heard that said, 00:26:53.579 --> 00:26:56.380 like give everything up, live a life of abject 00:26:56.380 --> 00:26:59.579 poverty, all those things. And maybe there is 00:26:59.579 --> 00:27:03.759 some... That is the call that Jesus puts on. 00:27:03.799 --> 00:27:06.019 I think there's some truth there, but yeah, but 00:27:06.019 --> 00:27:09.180 continue. But what I think it really is, is be 00:27:09.180 --> 00:27:12.640 willing to renounce whatever he asks of you, 00:27:12.720 --> 00:27:16.119 whether that is easy or hard for you. If there's 00:27:16.119 --> 00:27:18.619 something that you're not willing to give up 00:27:18.619 --> 00:27:20.819 for Jesus, you really need to check your heart 00:27:20.819 --> 00:27:24.180 on what that thing is. Well, that's idolatry. 00:27:24.220 --> 00:27:27.420 It is heart, love, and worship in a different 00:27:27.420 --> 00:27:30.680 direction. And worship can look a million different 00:27:30.680 --> 00:27:33.940 ways standing with your hands raised on a Sunday. 00:27:34.059 --> 00:27:37.119 It looks like what you give with your time. It 00:27:37.119 --> 00:27:39.240 looks like what you give with your money. It 00:27:39.240 --> 00:27:41.259 looks like what occupies your space. It looks 00:27:41.259 --> 00:27:43.519 like what occupies your mind. And that's why 00:27:43.519 --> 00:27:46.319 it looks so different for each person. Yes. Because 00:27:46.319 --> 00:27:50.140 we each have those things that we enjoy that 00:27:50.140 --> 00:27:53.460 are not... are in and of themselves, not sinful 00:27:53.460 --> 00:27:56.000 things, but they could be things that if they 00:27:56.000 --> 00:27:57.880 could, they could, they have the possibility 00:27:57.880 --> 00:28:01.240 of holding a higher place. Um, and they don't 00:28:01.240 --> 00:28:03.480 have to be physical things, but just hold a higher 00:28:03.480 --> 00:28:05.799 place than God. And that's like, okay, as you 00:28:05.799 --> 00:28:09.460 said, that thing has turned into idolatry. Yes. 00:28:09.539 --> 00:28:11.779 And it has turned into idolatry for you. And 00:28:11.779 --> 00:28:13.980 that's where we get into the area of like not 00:28:13.980 --> 00:28:16.500 causing a brother or sister to stumble. Right. 00:28:16.940 --> 00:28:19.099 Because there can be something that's completely 00:28:19.099 --> 00:28:22.440 fine. And maybe even like we talked at the very 00:28:22.440 --> 00:28:25.480 beginning, like, like I'm glorifying God through, 00:28:25.539 --> 00:28:28.579 through enjoying and enjoying and thanking him 00:28:28.579 --> 00:28:30.819 for it, that for another brother, it might be 00:28:30.819 --> 00:28:33.220 really hard. Yeah. So, I mean, let's go back 00:28:33.220 --> 00:28:35.000 to what the, I mean, the very first movie we 00:28:35.000 --> 00:28:36.500 mentioned at the very beginning, good morning, 00:28:36.519 --> 00:28:38.119 Vietnam. I don't even remember what that movie 00:28:38.119 --> 00:28:40.380 is rated. Right. And that's why, I mean, I had 00:28:40.380 --> 00:28:43.650 to put caveats on there, be like, okay, it. been 00:28:43.650 --> 00:28:45.269 more than five years since I've watched this 00:28:45.269 --> 00:28:47.109 movie. I might've been in a different spiritual 00:28:47.109 --> 00:28:49.430 mindset when I watched this movie. I think it 00:28:49.430 --> 00:28:51.809 was cool. I think it was a good movie, but like, 00:28:51.809 --> 00:28:53.690 there might be someone that this listening to 00:28:53.690 --> 00:28:55.769 this podcast, that's a brother in Christ that 00:28:55.769 --> 00:28:57.410 just watched this yesterday and was like, Oh, 00:28:57.470 --> 00:28:59.130 I should not have watched that. And then they 00:28:59.130 --> 00:29:00.650 get on here and hear their pastor being like, 00:29:00.690 --> 00:29:02.609 yeah, you should go watch that movie. It's like, 00:29:02.630 --> 00:29:04.470 well, hold on. You know, that's what I'm saying. 00:29:04.509 --> 00:29:06.940 Like there's, and then There's going to be these 00:29:06.940 --> 00:29:10.180 things that, you know, say there's a certain 00:29:10.180 --> 00:29:12.019 thing that's mentioned in that movie that's a 00:29:12.019 --> 00:29:14.900 really big struggle for someone. Like, I'm not 00:29:14.900 --> 00:29:17.900 trying to hurt their spiritual life. But that's 00:29:17.900 --> 00:29:19.920 what, like, we want to make sure that we are 00:29:19.920 --> 00:29:21.619 glorifying the Lord in everything we're doing. 00:29:21.839 --> 00:29:24.819 Absolutely. Absolutely. There's one other contrast 00:29:24.819 --> 00:29:26.819 I want to point out in this text. Yeah. From 00:29:26.819 --> 00:29:30.259 25 to 33. So you had highlighted the difference 00:29:30.259 --> 00:29:32.359 between a disciple and the crowds. Yes. Right? 00:29:32.440 --> 00:29:36.130 So 25. Now great crowds accompanied him. We're 00:29:36.130 --> 00:29:39.150 firmly in the, there are some faithful, there 00:29:39.150 --> 00:29:41.849 are some curious, there are some whatever, right? 00:29:42.390 --> 00:29:46.829 Crowds. 33, Jesus says, if any of you who does 00:29:46.829 --> 00:29:49.569 not renounce all he has cannot be my disciple. 00:29:50.069 --> 00:29:54.450 That's right. And discipleship, and I'm not necessarily 00:29:54.450 --> 00:29:56.950 talking about like the you or me sitting down 00:29:56.950 --> 00:29:59.569 with a younger believer. But the discipleship 00:29:59.569 --> 00:30:02.450 is a process that we all undergo of learning 00:30:02.450 --> 00:30:04.990 about Jesus. There's a pastor I respect who refers 00:30:04.990 --> 00:30:07.190 to it as the way of Jesus. He always capitalizes 00:30:07.190 --> 00:30:12.009 the W. I like the way it looks on paper. Discipleship 00:30:12.009 --> 00:30:17.190 is a process. I don't know. I feel like when 00:30:17.190 --> 00:30:19.690 we say, oh yeah, we're disciples of Jesus, we 00:30:19.690 --> 00:30:23.799 treat it as a synonym for I've been saved. Yeah, 00:30:23.920 --> 00:30:27.019 I see what you're saying. Like I have been made 00:30:27.019 --> 00:30:29.460 a disciple and the discipleship process is done. 00:30:30.119 --> 00:30:31.880 Look at me. I'm a disciple. I can wear the disciple 00:30:31.880 --> 00:30:34.420 name tag. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. 00:30:35.000 --> 00:30:39.119 Once you become a Christian, you begin the discipleship 00:30:39.119 --> 00:30:40.180 process. So I have a really cool illustration 00:30:40.180 --> 00:30:42.420 that I use with my students with this exact concept. 00:30:42.619 --> 00:30:45.019 So I kind of even dropped a hint about this on 00:30:45.019 --> 00:30:46.900 Sunday in my sermon when I talked about the word 00:30:46.900 --> 00:30:50.089 sanctification. Right? Because there's a difference, 00:30:50.269 --> 00:30:51.809 because I wanted to make sure that people were 00:30:51.809 --> 00:30:53.849 clear, because we talked about how salvation 00:30:53.849 --> 00:30:55.950 is through grace alone. Correct. Right? Like, 00:30:56.009 --> 00:30:58.230 that is just a universal concept in Christianity. 00:30:58.829 --> 00:31:02.190 Salvation is through grace alone. However, the 00:31:02.190 --> 00:31:04.369 reason people talk about works so much is because 00:31:04.369 --> 00:31:08.250 it is evidence through the sanctification process, 00:31:08.750 --> 00:31:10.890 right? So, but here's... Are you a math guy? 00:31:12.650 --> 00:31:14.509 Geometry. Do you remember geometry? Yes, I do. 00:31:14.529 --> 00:31:16.730 I love geometry. Dude, so you remember? I liked 00:31:16.730 --> 00:31:19.670 simple geometry. When I was just given an X coordinate 00:31:19.670 --> 00:31:21.410 and a Y coordinate, and I put it on a map. When 00:31:21.410 --> 00:31:22.730 they were giving you a shape with four sides, 00:31:22.849 --> 00:31:24.150 and they're like, what is that? And you're like, 00:31:24.230 --> 00:31:26.549 it's a square. That was the geometry I was good 00:31:26.549 --> 00:31:29.789 at. When he started to have to learn sine and 00:31:29.789 --> 00:31:31.710 cosine and things like that, and he started to 00:31:31.710 --> 00:31:34.269 get into trigonometry geometry, no, I'm out. 00:31:34.490 --> 00:31:37.690 Your boy is gone. I remember liking that, but 00:31:37.690 --> 00:31:40.450 I don't remember anything that I learned in that 00:31:40.450 --> 00:31:42.390 class. Well, good for you. I'm going back to 00:31:42.390 --> 00:31:44.170 the simple part of geometry. In fact, I'm going 00:31:44.170 --> 00:31:45.970 back to elementary school geometry, which is 00:31:45.970 --> 00:31:47.809 why this illustration works so well. Here we 00:31:47.809 --> 00:31:49.750 go. So do you remember that when you're plotting 00:31:49.750 --> 00:31:51.630 points on a graph and there's two different points, 00:31:51.769 --> 00:31:54.710 they had different terminology. And so like a 00:31:54.710 --> 00:31:58.269 line has a dot, a dot, and there's a line going 00:31:58.269 --> 00:32:00.369 between it. Yes. Right? Dot to dot. That's a 00:32:00.369 --> 00:32:02.950 line. right? There's another terminology called 00:32:02.950 --> 00:32:05.869 array. Yeah. All my students are familiar with 00:32:05.869 --> 00:32:07.430 this terminology because like I said, elementary 00:32:07.430 --> 00:32:10.569 school, whatever. And so array, there's a dot, 00:32:10.630 --> 00:32:14.589 there is a definitive starting point, but the 00:32:14.589 --> 00:32:18.049 line never ends. That is sanctification. Absolutely. 00:32:18.109 --> 00:32:20.869 That is salvation. There is a time in your life. 00:32:20.930 --> 00:32:22.309 Now, here's something very important that I need 00:32:22.309 --> 00:32:24.730 to say to people like me. Okay. I don't have 00:32:24.730 --> 00:32:28.470 a date. Yeah. I don't know the day I was saved. 00:32:28.799 --> 00:32:31.559 Some people, some pastors, that'll trip them 00:32:31.559 --> 00:32:34.220 up. If you don't know the time and the day that 00:32:34.220 --> 00:32:37.319 you gave your life to Jesus, you need to check 00:32:37.319 --> 00:32:41.339 your heart. Dude, even my salvation was a process. 00:32:41.599 --> 00:32:44.819 Right. Because I didn't grow up in church, but 00:32:44.819 --> 00:32:46.740 I started going to church as a teenager. I thought 00:32:46.740 --> 00:32:49.599 I made the decision at 13, but I did not get 00:32:49.599 --> 00:32:51.900 saved at 13. The Lord started working on my heart 00:32:51.900 --> 00:32:55.779 at 13. And sometime between 13 and 18, the Lord 00:32:55.779 --> 00:32:58.990 Jesus. absolutely transformed my life. You want 00:32:58.990 --> 00:33:01.230 to know who else's salvation was a process? Yeah. 00:33:01.450 --> 00:33:06.470 Peter. 100%. Yeah. Yeah. And, oh, I don't know, 00:33:06.549 --> 00:33:10.890 Paul. Yeah. Like, that's, I get the, yeah. So 00:33:10.890 --> 00:33:13.009 I want to be clear, even though I'm using that 00:33:13.009 --> 00:33:15.750 term point, that's definitive on a graph, like, 00:33:15.809 --> 00:33:18.309 for some of you, that doesn't necessarily mean 00:33:18.309 --> 00:33:20.750 there's a date, time, location. Yeah, yeah. Now, 00:33:20.769 --> 00:33:24.160 for some people, It is very much a pinpoint. 00:33:24.759 --> 00:33:28.380 But so a ray, you've got the point, and then 00:33:28.380 --> 00:33:32.079 it goes on forever. You see, the point is salvation. 00:33:32.380 --> 00:33:35.480 The ray, the line that goes on forever is sanctification. 00:33:35.819 --> 00:33:39.019 We are getting closer to Jesus for the rest of 00:33:39.019 --> 00:33:42.900 our life. We absolutely are. And in that, I completely 00:33:42.900 --> 00:33:45.720 understand the ray example. All I'll say is this, 00:33:45.880 --> 00:33:51.059 man, there is a end. That line keeps going on, 00:33:51.119 --> 00:33:53.460 and it is a ray, but that third of those terms, 00:33:53.599 --> 00:33:56.720 sanctification, justification, sanctification, 00:33:56.920 --> 00:34:00.220 glorification. We are going to get to land, and 00:34:00.220 --> 00:34:03.319 that one's symbolized by an arrow going in both 00:34:03.319 --> 00:34:06.660 directions with magnitude, baby! It's a quote 00:34:06.660 --> 00:34:11.429 from Despicable Me. vector vector i was like 00:34:11.429 --> 00:34:14.989 he's orange he wears glasses and i was like trying 00:34:14.989 --> 00:34:18.369 to remember his name and i was just lost man 00:34:18.369 --> 00:34:22.170 that that one's gonna fall flat tonight we steal 00:34:22.170 --> 00:34:29.079 the moon tonight we steal the moon It is a good 00:34:29.079 --> 00:34:31.559 movie. It is a good movie. We've been movie heavy 00:34:31.559 --> 00:34:34.679 today. A little bit. A little bit. It was a movie 00:34:34.679 --> 00:34:37.599 sandwich, if you will. A movie sandwich. We began 00:34:37.599 --> 00:34:39.980 with movies. We had the beginning bread and the 00:34:39.980 --> 00:34:42.099 ending bread and a whole lot of pursuing Jesus 00:34:42.099 --> 00:34:44.019 in the middle. I love it. You know, that's what 00:34:44.019 --> 00:34:45.699 we're here for, pursuing Jesus. Talking about 00:34:45.699 --> 00:34:47.900 real things like movies. And sandwiches. And 00:34:47.900 --> 00:34:51.219 sandwiches. And pursuing Jesus in, through, and 00:34:51.219 --> 00:34:55.340 sometimes around those things. I have been Ben 00:34:55.340 --> 00:34:59.079 Smith. I have still been Sean Griffin. And this 00:34:59.079 --> 00:35:01.059 has been Pursuing Jesus. We will catch you guys 00:35:01.059 --> 00:35:03.440 next week. Love y 'all. See y 'all next week. 00:35:05.940 --> 00:35:08.920 Pursuing Jesus is a ministry of Memorial Baptist 00:35:08.920 --> 00:35:11.639 Church in Norwood, North Carolina. To learn more 00:35:11.639 --> 00:35:15.099 about our church, please visit memorial4norwood 00:35:15.099 --> 00:35:15.860 .com.