WEBVTT 00:00:03.759 --> 00:00:06.639 Welcome to the Pursuing Jesus podcast. Today 00:00:06.639 --> 00:00:08.880 we're going to be talking about listening to 00:00:08.880 --> 00:00:12.500 the voice of God and lists versus liberty. We 00:00:12.500 --> 00:00:15.279 hope you'll pay attention and enjoy this episode. 00:00:15.519 --> 00:00:22.620 So tune in. Well, good morning or good evening 00:00:22.620 --> 00:00:25.800 as it were. Hello at 3 a .m. Hello at 3 a .m. 00:00:25.920 --> 00:00:28.379 We don't even post it at 3 a .m. It goes live 00:00:28.379 --> 00:00:31.789 at 6. 6 a .m.? 6 a .m. Is that when it goes live 00:00:31.789 --> 00:00:33.369 every Friday? Yeah, and I usually get a text 00:00:33.369 --> 00:00:36.030 around 7 from a certain... From someone that's 00:00:36.030 --> 00:00:38.170 waiting for it to go live. They want to be the 00:00:38.170 --> 00:00:40.829 first one. That's because he's disappointed it's 00:00:40.829 --> 00:00:43.770 not on at 3 a .m. Yes, and I changed it once, 00:00:44.030 --> 00:00:46.090 but you know what? They didn't listen to it then, 00:00:46.170 --> 00:00:48.789 and I was like, you know what? 6 a .m. I don't 00:00:48.789 --> 00:00:50.090 have to be present for that. You could schedule 00:00:50.090 --> 00:00:52.310 these things. It's 2026, guys. You know what 00:00:52.310 --> 00:00:53.909 one of my favorite things to do is these days? 00:00:54.090 --> 00:00:57.929 Schedule texts. Oh, it's glorious. Because so 00:00:57.929 --> 00:01:00.219 many times... One of the times I guess my brain 00:01:00.219 --> 00:01:03.000 is operating best is when I'm at the gym on the 00:01:03.000 --> 00:01:07.159 treadmill and it's like six 45, 7am in the morning. 00:01:07.219 --> 00:01:10.159 And I'm like, I don't want to text this person 00:01:10.159 --> 00:01:12.599 right now, but I will schedule it right then. 00:01:12.659 --> 00:01:14.400 And then that way they get it later in the day. 00:01:14.439 --> 00:01:16.420 So here's the real question for you guys. If 00:01:16.420 --> 00:01:18.980 you schedule a text, do you have to make it like 00:01:18.980 --> 00:01:21.579 a weird time? So that like, it's like, Oh, it's 00:01:21.579 --> 00:01:26.640 not at six. It's like 602. Cause I don't want 00:01:26.640 --> 00:01:29.519 them to know I scheduled it. So I never do it 00:01:29.519 --> 00:01:34.780 right at 12 o 'clock. Exactly. John never schedules 00:01:34.780 --> 00:01:36.459 texts is what I'm seeing over there. I've never 00:01:36.459 --> 00:01:41.180 scheduled a text. It is revolutionary. For an 00:01:41.180 --> 00:01:43.819 ADD brain, it's life -changing. Glorious. Because 00:01:43.819 --> 00:01:45.200 for me, it happens right before I go to bed. 00:01:45.359 --> 00:01:48.340 And I'm like, okay, it's like 10 .30. I can't 00:01:48.340 --> 00:01:50.819 text you right now. You're asleep. I was waiting 00:01:50.819 --> 00:01:53.379 for you to be like, it was like 8 .30 and I guess 00:01:53.379 --> 00:01:56.719 I had to go to bed. No. You know what threw me 00:01:56.719 --> 00:02:00.049 for a massive loop? a couple of days ago, I, 00:02:00.209 --> 00:02:02.269 uh, I was, we're going through our firebox for 00:02:02.269 --> 00:02:05.129 something. And, uh, I got my passport out and 00:02:05.129 --> 00:02:08.150 I glanced at it. It expires October, 2026. No 00:02:08.150 --> 00:02:11.870 worries. And I was like, wait, yeah, that's, 00:02:11.870 --> 00:02:13.629 you can't leave. That's, that's this October. 00:02:13.750 --> 00:02:15.689 You can't leave the country with that. You got 00:02:15.689 --> 00:02:18.009 to get that thing fixed. I do. But like my brain 00:02:18.009 --> 00:02:21.650 just was like, yeah, 2026, I got plenty of time. 00:02:21.789 --> 00:02:24.110 So I, I actually have not told either one of 00:02:24.110 --> 00:02:26.629 you this. Okay. Uh, you're not an American citizen. 00:02:31.460 --> 00:02:35.360 that is something i would not admit on a podcast 00:02:35.360 --> 00:02:38.819 that goes on the internet if that was true there 00:02:38.819 --> 00:02:41.879 would be so many legal ramifications to that 00:02:41.879 --> 00:02:47.860 oh immigration i am an american citizen oh yeah 00:02:47.860 --> 00:02:50.860 please don't take me away passport expire oh 00:02:50.860 --> 00:02:54.740 my gosh so my passport is expired that's the 00:02:54.740 --> 00:02:58.849 point of this story Um, I got an email inviting 00:02:58.849 --> 00:03:02.590 me to go on a free trip to Israel. And it was 00:03:02.590 --> 00:03:05.729 lit. This was not like, no, no, no, no, no, no. 00:03:05.729 --> 00:03:08.669 This sounds like a, no, it was from, uh, it was 00:03:08.669 --> 00:03:11.330 from the president of SLU, uh, student leadership 00:03:11.330 --> 00:03:13.289 university, uh, that we do a lot of stuff with, 00:03:13.289 --> 00:03:15.509 with our students. And they were partnering. 00:03:17.030 --> 00:03:18.650 They were partnering with a lot of stuff that 00:03:18.650 --> 00:03:21.069 the government was doing with Israel and they 00:03:21.069 --> 00:03:24.050 were trying to get pastors to go to Israel. That's 00:03:24.050 --> 00:03:28.050 crazy. And I was invited to go and I filled out 00:03:28.050 --> 00:03:31.050 the application. I was accepted. And then I looked 00:03:31.050 --> 00:03:33.210 and my passport was expired and there's not enough 00:03:33.210 --> 00:03:35.250 time to get in. And I was like, well, that just 00:03:35.250 --> 00:03:37.789 stinks. That stinks. So I missed out on a free 00:03:37.789 --> 00:03:39.370 trip to Israel because I didn't keep my passport 00:03:39.370 --> 00:03:41.770 up to date. And so you'd think I would have updated 00:03:41.770 --> 00:03:45.169 it by now. Nope, it's still expired. I got to 00:03:45.169 --> 00:03:47.050 fix that thing. If you get nothing else from 00:03:47.050 --> 00:03:49.210 this podcast today, ladies and gentlemen, watchers 00:03:49.210 --> 00:03:52.310 and listeners, keep your passport updated. I've 00:03:52.310 --> 00:03:55.009 never been to Israel. And John, I know you have. 00:03:55.189 --> 00:03:57.569 What was your experience going to the Holy Land? 00:03:57.689 --> 00:04:00.090 And when did you go? Just kind of depends on 00:04:00.090 --> 00:04:04.469 the mindset you go in with. If you're somebody 00:04:04.469 --> 00:04:07.270 that reads and loves to see visuals, it's really 00:04:07.270 --> 00:04:09.449 neat. I mean, I think the one that was really... 00:04:10.289 --> 00:04:12.389 surprising to me was the Pool of Bethsaida, the 00:04:12.389 --> 00:04:15.469 one that's in John 5. So, I mean, you saw a lot 00:04:15.469 --> 00:04:17.550 of really cool places, but I went when I was 00:04:17.550 --> 00:04:19.970 a junior in college, so it's been a long time. 00:04:20.610 --> 00:04:24.629 I had one plan with my last church. We were supposed 00:04:24.629 --> 00:04:28.709 to go in 2020, and COVID hit, and then it got 00:04:28.709 --> 00:04:32.480 postponed to 2021. Israel shut down again in 00:04:32.480 --> 00:04:36.040 21. And then in 22, they called us up and they 00:04:36.040 --> 00:04:37.660 said, because we had already paid for it, they 00:04:37.660 --> 00:04:40.819 said, well, we can chance it again to go to Israel 00:04:40.819 --> 00:04:43.019 or you can go to Greece and Turkey and follow 00:04:43.019 --> 00:04:44.680 in the footsteps of Paul. So that's what we did. 00:04:44.800 --> 00:04:49.060 All right. But I will say that was disappointing. 00:04:49.699 --> 00:04:51.980 The Greece one. The Greece and Turkey one was. 00:04:52.040 --> 00:04:56.610 It was not as. I don't know. It wasn't near as 00:04:56.610 --> 00:04:58.050 good as Israel. Israel was just, there was just 00:04:58.050 --> 00:04:59.689 something about it. You know, you're, you're, 00:04:59.689 --> 00:05:01.889 you're seeing the gospels come to life, but the, 00:05:01.910 --> 00:05:05.329 the Greece and Turkey trip, you were on a bus 00:05:05.329 --> 00:05:07.930 for like four hours going to each site. And so 00:05:07.930 --> 00:05:10.310 it was like you were doing so, whereas in Israel, 00:05:10.329 --> 00:05:13.769 you spend four days in Jerusalem. So, and then 00:05:13.769 --> 00:05:16.050 you're like an hour, maybe an hour to Bethlehem 00:05:16.050 --> 00:05:18.529 or an hour to Hoffa, you know, all these different 00:05:18.529 --> 00:05:20.970 places. So it was just like it, there was nowhere 00:05:20.970 --> 00:05:23.189 near as much traveling. So it's not as spread 00:05:23.189 --> 00:05:25.370 out. It's more condensed kind of. a smaller area. 00:05:25.449 --> 00:05:28.129 But it also makes you think when Paul was walking 00:05:28.129 --> 00:05:30.430 to these places, if it took you four hours to 00:05:30.430 --> 00:05:33.009 drive there, how long it took Paul to go from 00:05:33.009 --> 00:05:37.129 Corinth to Athens and then to Thessalonica and 00:05:37.129 --> 00:05:41.930 all that. You got to wonder, Paul's traveling 00:05:41.930 --> 00:05:44.569 with Luke or with Barnabas at times or dragging 00:05:44.569 --> 00:05:47.430 Timothy around or John Mark. What was that like 00:05:47.430 --> 00:05:50.959 walking with somebody who... who saw the risen 00:05:50.959 --> 00:05:54.000 Christ. I think at least internally, I have that 00:05:54.000 --> 00:05:58.699 tendency to like, I don't know, overly sanctify 00:05:58.699 --> 00:06:01.639 Paul walking around, talking in a calm voice, 00:06:01.839 --> 00:06:03.800 you know, like, oh, Timothy, the things I've 00:06:03.800 --> 00:06:06.019 seen. I bet it wasn't. I'm sure Paul was like, 00:06:06.079 --> 00:06:09.060 dude, will this inn ever get our food out? You 00:06:09.060 --> 00:06:10.800 know, that is an interesting thing. And these 00:06:10.800 --> 00:06:12.100 are thoughts that I've had too when it comes 00:06:12.100 --> 00:06:15.740 to scripture. I call them characters, but they're 00:06:15.740 --> 00:06:19.019 historical figures, but they're characters. Oh, 00:06:19.019 --> 00:06:20.459 they said characters in Scripture. But that's 00:06:20.459 --> 00:06:24.279 the point. We get a little bit of emotions through 00:06:24.279 --> 00:06:27.740 different passages. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But one 00:06:27.740 --> 00:06:30.540 of the things that the written word lacks is 00:06:30.540 --> 00:06:33.360 personality and those different things, and it 00:06:33.360 --> 00:06:36.800 would be so cool just to know some of the personality 00:06:36.800 --> 00:06:39.160 traits of some of these people, to really know 00:06:39.160 --> 00:06:43.019 this is who this person was from disability. 00:06:43.050 --> 00:06:44.410 personality standpoint, not just the written 00:06:44.410 --> 00:06:46.589 word. Yeah. I've always wondered those kind of 00:06:46.589 --> 00:06:48.550 things. Those will be interesting. So anyways, 00:06:48.629 --> 00:06:50.189 guys, y 'all want to get into some passages today? 00:06:50.269 --> 00:06:51.990 Yeah, I think let's do it. Awesome. Awesome. 00:06:52.110 --> 00:06:54.069 So I'm going to get us started. I'm going to 00:06:54.069 --> 00:06:57.629 be in John chapter 10. I'm going to be looking 00:06:57.629 --> 00:07:00.230 at verses one through five. And this, if I can 00:07:00.230 --> 00:07:04.439 pull out my handy dandy notebook. Blue's Clues 00:07:04.439 --> 00:07:08.079 reference there. May 27th. So if you have done 00:07:08.079 --> 00:07:09.399 that, when you like to turn there, if you like 00:07:09.399 --> 00:07:10.860 to follow along. You know, that's one of the 00:07:10.860 --> 00:07:13.019 things I've actually kind of wondered from our 00:07:13.019 --> 00:07:15.779 listeners who I hope you're doing the devotional 00:07:15.779 --> 00:07:17.800 books with us. I really do. That's kind of the 00:07:17.800 --> 00:07:19.699 point of this that we're doing is to help you 00:07:19.699 --> 00:07:22.480 guys out. But I'm really curious, when you listen 00:07:22.480 --> 00:07:24.779 to the podcast, do you have your notes in front 00:07:24.779 --> 00:07:27.319 of you? Are you kind of looking at what you wrote 00:07:27.319 --> 00:07:29.180 down on those days compared to what we're saying? 00:07:29.379 --> 00:07:31.139 You know, I've never heard any of that feedback. 00:07:31.259 --> 00:07:33.120 And so, hey, let me know. know. Let me know if 00:07:33.120 --> 00:07:34.480 that's something you do, if you ever compare 00:07:34.480 --> 00:07:37.300 what you wrote or anything. I would love to hear 00:07:37.300 --> 00:07:39.279 that kind of feedback, and so let us know. But 00:07:39.279 --> 00:07:42.319 anyways, May 27th. It goes all the way down to 00:07:42.319 --> 00:07:43.819 verse 10, but I just want to read the first five 00:07:43.819 --> 00:07:46.279 verses, right? I mean, the big verse is verse 00:07:46.279 --> 00:07:48.279 10, and so that's the one that a lot of people... 00:07:49.450 --> 00:07:51.850 will really focus on, but there's something that 00:07:51.850 --> 00:07:53.810 Jesus says, and it's all Jesus speaking in the 00:07:53.810 --> 00:07:56.490 first five verses, that caught me a number of 00:07:56.490 --> 00:07:59.029 years ago, and it's something that I love to 00:07:59.029 --> 00:08:02.050 use to talk with my students about, and something 00:08:02.050 --> 00:08:04.930 the Lord really worked in my life as well to 00:08:04.930 --> 00:08:06.970 help me understand my relationship with Him. 00:08:07.209 --> 00:08:09.110 And so let me read it. It's only five verses, 00:08:09.209 --> 00:08:10.970 and then let me tell you kind of what I want 00:08:10.970 --> 00:08:14.660 to say. So here it goes. Truly I tell you, anyone 00:08:14.660 --> 00:08:18.459 who doesn't enter the sheep pen by the gate but 00:08:18.459 --> 00:08:20.800 climbs in some other way is a thief and a robber. 00:08:21.040 --> 00:08:23.740 The one who enters by the gate is the shepherd 00:08:23.740 --> 00:08:26.259 of the sheep. The gatekeeper opens it for him, 00:08:26.300 --> 00:08:29.920 and the sheep hear his voice. He calls his own 00:08:29.920 --> 00:08:32.960 sheep by name and leads them out. When he has 00:08:32.960 --> 00:08:35.799 brought all his own outside, he goes ahead of 00:08:35.799 --> 00:08:38.450 them. The sheep will follow him because they 00:08:38.450 --> 00:08:41.970 know his voice. Hint, hint, I'm going slower 00:08:41.970 --> 00:08:45.750 as I read that. They will never follow a stranger. 00:08:45.850 --> 00:08:48.789 Instead, they will run away from him because 00:08:48.789 --> 00:08:53.200 they don't know the voice of the strangers. So 00:08:53.200 --> 00:08:55.480 it's that whole idea of understanding the voice 00:08:55.480 --> 00:08:57.539 of Jesus. And this has been my encouragement 00:08:57.539 --> 00:09:00.259 to so many people that are young in their faith, 00:09:00.440 --> 00:09:03.779 whether that's age -wise or spiritually. And 00:09:03.779 --> 00:09:05.799 one of the questions I get is, how do I know 00:09:05.799 --> 00:09:07.740 if I'm listening to the voice of God? And that 00:09:07.740 --> 00:09:10.279 is such an important question because there's 00:09:10.279 --> 00:09:12.799 so many times where we might be praying about 00:09:12.799 --> 00:09:16.740 something and it can be more obvious. We're praying 00:09:16.740 --> 00:09:19.379 about something. But there's other times that 00:09:19.379 --> 00:09:20.940 we're going to be praying about something. And 00:09:20.940 --> 00:09:23.899 because of conflicting emotions that we have, 00:09:24.100 --> 00:09:26.580 here's a big one that might be silly to some 00:09:26.580 --> 00:09:28.740 of our listeners, but it is honestly important 00:09:28.740 --> 00:09:31.580 to some of our students. And that's dating, right? 00:09:31.740 --> 00:09:33.659 Yeah, for sure. There's some guys, they're going 00:09:33.659 --> 00:09:35.840 to look at a girl. They're going to say, that 00:09:35.840 --> 00:09:39.879 girl looks really good. I want to date this girl. 00:09:39.919 --> 00:09:42.299 Let me pray about it. And sometimes they're serious, 00:09:42.340 --> 00:09:46.490 right? And when they're serious, It can still 00:09:46.490 --> 00:09:50.669 be difficult to discern, am I listening to my 00:09:50.669 --> 00:09:54.049 own fleshly desires that really want to date 00:09:54.049 --> 00:09:57.269 this girl? Or is this something that it would 00:09:57.269 --> 00:09:59.289 be a godly relationship? Absolutely. Like that's 00:09:59.289 --> 00:10:01.970 hard to discern when there are emotions attached 00:10:01.970 --> 00:10:04.250 to it or there are other desires attached to 00:10:04.250 --> 00:10:07.409 whatever's going on. And so this is what I tell 00:10:07.409 --> 00:10:09.769 my students. The more you know the voice of God, 00:10:09.870 --> 00:10:11.070 the more you're going to be able to discern, 00:10:11.269 --> 00:10:17.200 okay, is this me? Or is this the Holy Spirit? 00:10:17.360 --> 00:10:19.620 Yeah. Right? Yeah. And so the illustration that 00:10:19.620 --> 00:10:22.960 I use so often for that is my wife on the phone. 00:10:23.279 --> 00:10:27.919 Okay. So follow along with me, right? I've been 00:10:27.919 --> 00:10:32.460 married now for just a few weeks over 19 years. 00:10:32.580 --> 00:10:34.259 We just had our anniversary not too long ago. 00:10:34.440 --> 00:10:37.320 And so we're at 19 years, and we dated for a 00:10:37.320 --> 00:10:39.159 few years before that. And so I've been with 00:10:39.159 --> 00:10:43.980 my wife essentially for 20 years. And we definitely, 00:10:44.159 --> 00:10:46.779 you know, we grew up in the time where actually 00:10:46.779 --> 00:10:49.539 talking on the phone and not FaceTime or texting 00:10:49.539 --> 00:10:51.960 was a thing. And we talked on the phone and we 00:10:51.960 --> 00:10:53.460 actually had a long distance relationship through 00:10:53.460 --> 00:10:56.539 college. Really? Yeah. And so we talked on the 00:10:56.539 --> 00:11:01.080 phone a lot. And so my wife is someone that. 00:11:01.600 --> 00:11:04.679 I know her voice immediately. Yeah. Absolutely 00:11:04.679 --> 00:11:07.379 immediately when I'm talking on the phone. My 00:11:07.379 --> 00:11:10.340 daughter, Cora, loves to play this game, and 00:11:10.340 --> 00:11:12.919 she still does this today all the time. Okay. 00:11:12.960 --> 00:11:16.120 Where I will call my wife's cell phone, and then 00:11:16.120 --> 00:11:17.899 my kids are homeschooled, so they're always home. 00:11:18.059 --> 00:11:21.480 Right. And my daughter, Cora, will answer the 00:11:21.480 --> 00:11:24.379 phone, and all she'll say is hello. That's all 00:11:24.379 --> 00:11:27.450 she'll say. Okay. But immediately I respond, 00:11:27.710 --> 00:11:32.490 Hey Cora. And it frustrates the mess out of Cora. 00:11:32.549 --> 00:11:37.549 She wants to trick me. Yes. She's trying to mess 00:11:37.549 --> 00:11:40.850 with me and it's just one word, but that one, 00:11:40.909 --> 00:11:43.129 and you know, she's, and she's tried it now for 00:11:43.129 --> 00:11:46.570 a year, but still she has never been able to 00:11:46.570 --> 00:11:49.809 trick me. Not saying she never will, but right 00:11:49.809 --> 00:11:51.549 now she's never been able to trick me. And it's 00:11:51.549 --> 00:11:54.769 not because. Essentially, I know Cora's voice. 00:11:54.950 --> 00:11:57.509 Yeah. But it's because I know my wife's voice 00:11:57.509 --> 00:12:01.149 because I talk with my wife all the time. And 00:12:01.149 --> 00:12:05.110 even one singular word of someone trying to trick 00:12:05.110 --> 00:12:08.870 me, a .k .a. wolves in sheep's clothing. Don't 00:12:08.870 --> 00:12:13.490 look too deep into that illustration. Wolves 00:12:13.490 --> 00:12:18.309 in sheep's clothing cannot trick me. I know my 00:12:18.309 --> 00:12:20.710 wife's voice. And so I tell the students, the 00:12:20.710 --> 00:12:25.230 more time you spend with Jesus, the more you're 00:12:25.230 --> 00:12:29.090 going to hear his voice. How can you expect to 00:12:29.090 --> 00:12:33.590 have discernment over spiritual matters if the 00:12:33.590 --> 00:12:35.570 only time you spend in God's word is Wednesday 00:12:35.570 --> 00:12:38.409 night and Sunday morning? Yeah. You're not going 00:12:38.409 --> 00:12:41.490 to know the voice of God. You have got to spend 00:12:41.490 --> 00:12:45.049 quality time with Jesus. You need to be spending 00:12:45.049 --> 00:12:47.990 time with him because you desire to get to know 00:12:47.990 --> 00:12:51.830 him better. And the more you do that, the more 00:12:51.830 --> 00:12:53.789 you're going to know his voice. And here's the 00:12:53.789 --> 00:12:56.529 interesting thing to me about this passage. The 00:12:56.529 --> 00:12:58.950 sheep hear his voice and he calls them out, or 00:12:58.950 --> 00:13:00.990 he calls out his own sheep by name and leads 00:13:00.990 --> 00:13:06.509 them out. For me, one thing that I think about 00:13:06.509 --> 00:13:10.049 is that before we were following the voice of 00:13:10.049 --> 00:13:12.710 our shepherd, we were following some other voice. 00:13:13.289 --> 00:13:17.350 And I think that varies person to person, right? 00:13:17.570 --> 00:13:19.809 Either the voice of the society that we're living 00:13:19.809 --> 00:13:22.809 in, this internal sense of what is right or wrong, 00:13:22.909 --> 00:13:24.889 or just this internal sense of these are my desires. 00:13:25.190 --> 00:13:28.909 I think there's part of the process of learning 00:13:28.909 --> 00:13:32.190 to hear the Savior's voice or our shepherd's 00:13:32.190 --> 00:13:35.639 voice. is recognizing the voices that we've been 00:13:35.639 --> 00:13:38.620 listening to and that we're still listening to. 00:13:38.720 --> 00:13:42.080 There are so many different voices that input 00:13:42.080 --> 00:13:44.919 into us, and we have to choose what to do with 00:13:44.919 --> 00:13:48.940 those. There's a discernment factor there. And 00:13:48.940 --> 00:13:50.700 I think for me, there have been times in my life 00:13:50.700 --> 00:13:53.820 where there's been what I would probably consider 00:13:53.820 --> 00:13:57.960 a neutral voice, that the Lord has said, mute 00:13:57.960 --> 00:14:02.629 that voice because I want to speak to you. And, 00:14:02.629 --> 00:14:04.289 you know, one of the things going on, and I use 00:14:04.289 --> 00:14:07.649 dating as a funny example. It ain't that funny, 00:14:07.690 --> 00:14:09.789 Chief. But like I said, it's real for them. I 00:14:09.789 --> 00:14:11.429 mean, these are big decisions for them, but it 00:14:11.429 --> 00:14:14.490 goes beyond that. I mean, you think of many of 00:14:14.490 --> 00:14:16.710 – we're in graduation season, and many of them 00:14:16.710 --> 00:14:18.149 were wondering about the college they were going 00:14:18.149 --> 00:14:19.870 to go to and trying to make that – that's a big 00:14:19.870 --> 00:14:21.990 choice. That's going to influence the people 00:14:21.990 --> 00:14:23.850 you're hanging around with, the type of community 00:14:23.850 --> 00:14:26.629 that you're putting yourself in. And so the choice 00:14:26.629 --> 00:14:28.529 of what college you go to is a big one, and I 00:14:28.529 --> 00:14:29.929 think it's something that should be prayed about. 00:14:30.830 --> 00:14:34.909 I've even seen experiences where – There's been 00:14:34.909 --> 00:14:38.250 some well -meaning parents that have given their 00:14:38.250 --> 00:14:41.230 students advice, and honestly, they should have 00:14:41.230 --> 00:14:43.750 listened to the Holy Spirit. Let me say the example 00:14:43.750 --> 00:14:45.629 so I don't have parents mad at me, right? Let 00:14:45.629 --> 00:14:48.370 me give you one example. So I had a student a 00:14:48.370 --> 00:14:52.850 number of years ago that was feeling called to 00:14:52.850 --> 00:14:55.009 the mission field. He felt like this was something 00:14:55.009 --> 00:14:58.929 they wanted to do. This freaked out their mom 00:14:58.929 --> 00:15:04.980 so much. Scared mom to death. And was like, no, 00:15:05.100 --> 00:15:06.820 you are not going to go on the mission field. 00:15:06.879 --> 00:15:09.720 Absolutely not. So the girl ends up going off 00:15:09.720 --> 00:15:14.139 to college. While in college, she gets the chance 00:15:14.139 --> 00:15:20.460 to study abroad. And all of a sudden, mom's all 00:15:20.460 --> 00:15:24.460 about that. Really? Yeah. And unfortunately, 00:15:24.840 --> 00:15:29.279 when she went off to college. She didn't go to—she 00:15:29.279 --> 00:15:31.039 fell in with the wrong crowd at college. We'll 00:15:31.039 --> 00:15:34.200 just put it that way, right? And so those were 00:15:34.200 --> 00:15:36.940 no longer desires of her heart that she had when 00:15:36.940 --> 00:15:39.000 she was younger. And I was just like, man, I 00:15:39.000 --> 00:15:41.580 wonder what would have happened if you would 00:15:41.580 --> 00:15:43.419 have listened to the Holy Spirit, helped to guide 00:15:43.419 --> 00:15:45.639 your parents through this process and this decision 00:15:45.639 --> 00:15:49.700 instead of not. And so those are hard situations, 00:15:49.860 --> 00:15:52.299 but that's why we need to know the difference 00:15:52.299 --> 00:15:54.960 between the different voices that we're listening 00:15:54.960 --> 00:15:57.480 to. Yeah, absolutely. That's why I think verse 00:15:57.480 --> 00:16:00.679 5 is really unique, too, if we miss this. It 00:16:00.679 --> 00:16:03.899 says, yet they will by no means follow a stranger. 00:16:05.000 --> 00:16:07.779 If you look at that, you realize that they're 00:16:07.779 --> 00:16:11.029 not going to follow. false teachers. And that's 00:16:11.029 --> 00:16:13.570 what Jesus is getting a point across is that 00:16:13.570 --> 00:16:15.309 if you know the Savior, you're going to follow 00:16:15.309 --> 00:16:18.370 his voice. But I love this because Paul talks 00:16:18.370 --> 00:16:20.929 about this in Ephesians chapter four, and it's 00:16:20.929 --> 00:16:23.789 when he talked about equipping the saints. And 00:16:23.789 --> 00:16:25.809 he talked about equipping them for the work of 00:16:25.809 --> 00:16:27.509 the ministry, for the education of the body. 00:16:27.690 --> 00:16:29.809 But he says this, he says, and of the knowledge 00:16:29.809 --> 00:16:32.870 of the Son of God to a perfect man, to the measure 00:16:32.870 --> 00:16:34.769 of the stature of the fullness of Christ, that 00:16:34.769 --> 00:16:36.649 we should no longer be children tossed to and 00:16:36.649 --> 00:16:41.620 fro and carried about with every wind of In other 00:16:41.620 --> 00:16:46.840 words, a true Christian who follows Christ, hears 00:16:46.840 --> 00:16:49.840 his voice, and will not be dragged around by 00:16:49.840 --> 00:16:52.299 every doctrine or every whim that's out there. 00:16:52.799 --> 00:16:55.240 And, I mean, we live in a society where, I mean, 00:16:55.279 --> 00:16:57.950 I remember growing up. Pastors on television, 00:16:58.210 --> 00:17:00.490 right? I mean, they would teach all kinds of 00:17:00.490 --> 00:17:03.649 crazy, crazy mess. There's demons attached to 00:17:03.649 --> 00:17:05.869 your thrift store finds. Oh, my goodness. Or 00:17:05.869 --> 00:17:09.029 there's demons in certain buildings. And I'm 00:17:09.029 --> 00:17:10.890 like, the only thing we ever see a demon possess 00:17:10.890 --> 00:17:14.549 is a person in Scripture, not a place. And there 00:17:14.549 --> 00:17:16.410 were just so many things like that. But the slaying 00:17:16.410 --> 00:17:18.049 of the spirit was a big thing when I was growing 00:17:18.049 --> 00:17:20.890 up, right? The Benny Hens, the different ones, 00:17:21.009 --> 00:17:23.289 they were just throwing their hands out and people 00:17:23.289 --> 00:17:26.970 would fall over. It was a lady in our church, 00:17:27.009 --> 00:17:29.009 and she made a statement because a lot of the 00:17:29.009 --> 00:17:32.089 churches were falling into that, this being slain 00:17:32.089 --> 00:17:34.890 in the spirit. And she said, you know what? She 00:17:34.890 --> 00:17:37.910 said, there's no need in somebody catching you 00:17:37.910 --> 00:17:40.210 if you're slain in the spirit. And he said, yet 00:17:40.210 --> 00:17:42.509 in every case, you see them catching them. And 00:17:42.509 --> 00:17:44.690 she said this. She said, if the spirit will slay 00:17:44.690 --> 00:17:48.200 you, he'll lay you. In other words, he's not 00:17:48.200 --> 00:17:50.319 going to hurt you. But it was just, it's one 00:17:50.319 --> 00:17:53.440 of those things, there's so many voices that 00:17:53.440 --> 00:17:55.859 are out there, in particular teaching things 00:17:55.859 --> 00:18:00.890 that are not scriptural. And he says here, Yet 00:18:00.890 --> 00:18:03.569 they will by no means follow a stranger, but 00:18:03.569 --> 00:18:05.750 will flee from him, for they do not know the 00:18:05.750 --> 00:18:08.470 voice of strangers. We live in a day and age 00:18:08.470 --> 00:18:11.349 where there are a lot of people out there speaking 00:18:11.349 --> 00:18:14.170 and saying they are talking the voice of God, 00:18:14.230 --> 00:18:16.809 that they are bringing his word, and they are 00:18:16.809 --> 00:18:20.710 leading people astray greatly. And he says here, 00:18:20.849 --> 00:18:22.930 my sheep are going to follow my voice. They're 00:18:22.930 --> 00:18:24.349 not going to follow the voice of a stranger. 00:18:24.549 --> 00:18:27.259 The only way that happens... is knowing the voice 00:18:27.259 --> 00:18:29.799 of God. It's digging into His Word. It's hearing 00:18:29.799 --> 00:18:34.000 clearly from Him. And so I worry about those 00:18:34.000 --> 00:18:36.519 Christians that don't dig into the Word of God, 00:18:36.619 --> 00:18:40.660 that do only get it Wednesdays and Sundays. Do 00:18:40.660 --> 00:18:43.519 they really have a relationship with God? Because 00:18:43.519 --> 00:18:45.559 I'll tell you, I wouldn't just talk to my wife 00:18:45.559 --> 00:18:48.200 on Wednesday and Sunday. I've got to spend time 00:18:48.200 --> 00:18:50.660 with her every single day, as we should with 00:18:50.660 --> 00:18:54.880 God. So here's the question. Verse 5, like you 00:18:54.880 --> 00:18:57.269 said, Strangers, they won't follow, but they 00:18:57.269 --> 00:18:59.029 will flee from the stranger. They do not know 00:18:59.029 --> 00:19:02.869 the voice of strangers. And Jesus is making this 00:19:02.869 --> 00:19:06.190 point of, listen, I'm the real thing. I'm not 00:19:06.190 --> 00:19:09.269 the counterfeit. And we've spent time kind of 00:19:09.269 --> 00:19:13.549 exploring what it looks like to recognize the 00:19:13.549 --> 00:19:15.730 real thing, or to recognize the counterfeits 00:19:15.730 --> 00:19:18.190 because you know the real thing. Here's my question 00:19:18.190 --> 00:19:21.049 for you guys. What about when you feel like you 00:19:21.049 --> 00:19:24.480 can't hear his voice? Because I think it comes 00:19:24.480 --> 00:19:27.680 in all Christians' lives, usually in a time of 00:19:27.680 --> 00:19:32.440 difficulty. Absolutely. Where when you come to 00:19:32.440 --> 00:19:35.440 the scriptures, man, they just feel dry. Or when 00:19:35.440 --> 00:19:37.460 you go to pray, it feels like it's bouncing off 00:19:37.460 --> 00:19:39.700 the ceiling or the nearest hard surface around 00:19:39.700 --> 00:19:42.819 you. When you go to do community with believers 00:19:42.819 --> 00:19:45.039 and experience the fellowship of the Holy Spirit 00:19:45.039 --> 00:19:47.299 in that way, you still feel alone in a crowded 00:19:47.299 --> 00:19:51.480 room. What do we do when... When we seek our 00:19:51.480 --> 00:19:55.720 shepherd's voice, but we can't hear him. I figure 00:19:55.720 --> 00:20:00.099 the problem's me. And it usually, well, no, it 00:20:00.099 --> 00:20:03.859 always is me. It's not that God doesn't speak. 00:20:04.400 --> 00:20:07.240 And truthfully, the Bible talks about this. It 00:20:07.240 --> 00:20:09.019 says if there's sin in my heart, it puts a veil 00:20:09.019 --> 00:20:10.980 between me and God. It's in the book of Isaiah. 00:20:11.019 --> 00:20:15.579 It's in the book of Psalms. So it's me. I've 00:20:15.579 --> 00:20:18.440 either clogged up my ears, don't want to hear. 00:20:18.910 --> 00:20:21.349 truly hear from God or something's wrong with 00:20:21.349 --> 00:20:24.670 my heart. And so usually if I'm not hearing from 00:20:24.670 --> 00:20:28.670 God, I'm begging God to show me, am I just not 00:20:28.670 --> 00:20:30.890 listening or do I have sin in my heart that's 00:20:30.890 --> 00:20:32.789 keeping me from wanting to hear from you? So 00:20:32.789 --> 00:20:35.210 from what I'm hearing you're saying is that that 00:20:35.210 --> 00:20:37.690 silence becomes an indicator for you. Yes. It's 00:20:37.690 --> 00:20:40.750 an indicator that something is amiss. Well, if 00:20:40.750 --> 00:20:42.349 Maddie stopped talking to you, would you think 00:20:42.349 --> 00:20:45.430 something was wrong? I sure would. I sure would. 00:20:46.430 --> 00:20:49.349 You know what's funny about that, though, is 00:20:49.349 --> 00:20:52.049 that, not the Maddie and I part, but the silence 00:20:52.049 --> 00:20:57.710 being an indicator, in a strange way, that still 00:20:57.710 --> 00:21:00.369 feels like a call towards relationship to me. 00:21:01.359 --> 00:21:05.539 That if the spring of words and closeness with 00:21:05.539 --> 00:21:09.160 God that we feel like goes dark, that one, we 00:21:09.160 --> 00:21:11.539 know he's everywhere. His Holy Spirit lives in 00:21:11.539 --> 00:21:14.240 us. And he's also physically present everywhere 00:21:14.240 --> 00:21:16.779 else, the same as us recording this podcast. 00:21:17.299 --> 00:21:19.440 And for you who are listening, he's in the car 00:21:19.440 --> 00:21:23.220 with you or wherever. He allows the warmth of 00:21:23.220 --> 00:21:25.779 his presence to grow just a little colder to 00:21:25.779 --> 00:21:29.589 call you into deeper relationship with him. There's 00:21:29.589 --> 00:21:31.130 a part of it. And that's something that I've 00:21:31.130 --> 00:21:33.670 noticed, too, exactly what you just said. When 00:21:33.670 --> 00:21:36.630 I've gone through seasons of difficulty like 00:21:36.630 --> 00:21:38.470 that, where I was unsure if I was hearing the 00:21:38.470 --> 00:21:41.509 voice of God, and it's very difficult times, 00:21:41.670 --> 00:21:45.869 and when I've responded to it correctly, and 00:21:45.869 --> 00:21:48.349 as I get older, and hopefully this continues 00:21:48.349 --> 00:21:50.190 to happen, I feel like I do respond to it correctly, 00:21:50.369 --> 00:21:55.880 I notice it draws me into deeper waters. than 00:21:55.880 --> 00:21:59.460 I was usually at beforehand. And it does. It 00:21:59.460 --> 00:22:03.380 draws me into a deeper relationship with Jesus 00:22:03.380 --> 00:22:07.240 because I'm more relying on Him, more trying 00:22:07.240 --> 00:22:11.019 to get rid of the outside voices that are speaking 00:22:11.019 --> 00:22:14.849 to me and focus everything back onto Him. And 00:22:14.849 --> 00:22:17.630 so that's what I've done sometimes for periods 00:22:17.630 --> 00:22:20.029 of life. It's like, okay, what are some distractions 00:22:20.029 --> 00:22:23.049 that I have right now that might be keeping me 00:22:23.049 --> 00:22:24.730 from my relationship? And I'll really just start 00:22:24.730 --> 00:22:26.789 thinking about my days or my weeks and say, okay, 00:22:26.829 --> 00:22:29.589 I need to cut this, cut this, cut this. And sometimes 00:22:29.589 --> 00:22:32.450 I might bring that thing back into my life later. 00:22:33.029 --> 00:22:36.450 Sometimes I don't. I mean, just for me, and this 00:22:36.450 --> 00:22:39.990 is not... for everybody. Yeah, it's a description. 00:22:40.230 --> 00:22:43.390 But I've cut social media off my phone. The only 00:22:43.390 --> 00:22:44.930 thing I have on there is TikTok. Everyone wants 00:22:44.930 --> 00:22:46.829 to follow the scroll, but I used to spend way 00:22:46.829 --> 00:22:48.849 too much time on Instagram and Facebook and Snapchat. 00:22:49.970 --> 00:22:52.549 I've slowly cut all of those off of my phone, 00:22:52.670 --> 00:22:57.549 and it has radically changed me mentally. Really? 00:22:57.569 --> 00:22:59.630 By getting those off of my phone. Like I said, 00:22:59.670 --> 00:23:01.650 that's not for everybody, but it's something 00:23:01.650 --> 00:23:04.710 I needed, and I noticed it affected my relationship 00:23:04.710 --> 00:23:08.230 with the Lord. And so because of that, that's 00:23:08.230 --> 00:23:10.329 one of the ones I haven't gone back to. Now, 00:23:10.390 --> 00:23:12.109 when I was a young man and I was newly married, 00:23:12.250 --> 00:23:17.150 I had to cut video games out of my life. I did. 00:23:17.309 --> 00:23:20.650 It was affecting my relationship with my wife 00:23:20.650 --> 00:23:23.970 and the Lord. And so there was a period of time 00:23:23.970 --> 00:23:26.630 that I literally sold all my games and did all 00:23:26.630 --> 00:23:28.609 that stuff because I needed it out of my life. 00:23:28.710 --> 00:23:30.329 Now, I've gone back, and I love playing video 00:23:30.329 --> 00:23:33.700 games now. But there was a time. There was a 00:23:33.700 --> 00:23:35.339 time that I had to get rid of it in my life. 00:23:35.380 --> 00:23:40.500 And so that becomes a sacrifice, though. And 00:23:40.500 --> 00:23:42.779 isn't that what worship is? That's exactly what 00:23:42.779 --> 00:23:44.400 worship is. That's exactly where I was going, 00:23:44.519 --> 00:23:48.079 dude. That it is giving up something of value. 00:23:48.259 --> 00:23:49.859 Like, I'm reminded of when David is, you know, 00:23:49.859 --> 00:23:52.859 David's trying to build the temple, and he wants 00:23:52.859 --> 00:23:54.480 the ground to build the temple, and there's that 00:23:54.480 --> 00:23:57.220 threshing floor there, right? And the dude's 00:23:57.220 --> 00:23:58.819 like, dog, I'll just give it to you. Like, I 00:23:58.819 --> 00:24:01.180 love Yahweh. You love Yahweh. You're also the 00:24:01.180 --> 00:24:04.279 king, so, like, I really can't say no. So, like, 00:24:04.279 --> 00:24:05.400 just have the threshing floor. David's like, 00:24:05.460 --> 00:24:09.230 I will not offer the Lord God. something that 00:24:09.230 --> 00:24:14.269 costs me nothing. And I think that he's the one 00:24:14.269 --> 00:24:17.750 who determines the price that we pay, quote unquote, 00:24:17.890 --> 00:24:21.250 the price that we pay. It's like you said, God 00:24:21.250 --> 00:24:25.670 has not unilaterally asked every human that has 00:24:25.670 --> 00:24:29.269 access to an Xbox or a gaming PC to give up video 00:24:29.269 --> 00:24:31.789 games. But when you hear the voice of the shepherd 00:24:31.789 --> 00:24:36.099 say, I'm offering you something deeper. Or maybe 00:24:36.099 --> 00:24:38.500 to use a better word, a more biblical phrase, 00:24:38.720 --> 00:24:44.859 follow me. That is a price worth paying. And 00:24:44.859 --> 00:24:48.380 I think the follow me does fit as well with the 00:24:48.380 --> 00:24:51.200 seasons of like, I didn't play video games then, 00:24:51.319 --> 00:24:53.640 I play a little bit of video games now. But the 00:24:53.640 --> 00:24:55.259 way that I play them is different and the heart 00:24:55.259 --> 00:24:57.940 that I approach them with is different. Jesus 00:24:57.940 --> 00:25:01.150 dragged his disciples. into Judea. He took them 00:25:01.150 --> 00:25:04.210 to the 10 cities outside of Israel. He brought 00:25:04.210 --> 00:25:06.589 them to Jerusalem. He took them to Tyre and Sidon. 00:25:06.609 --> 00:25:08.730 You know, different seasons for different emphases 00:25:08.730 --> 00:25:11.130 and different things. Well, that was a really 00:25:11.130 --> 00:25:13.250 good conversation, fellas. But let's move on 00:25:13.250 --> 00:25:15.230 to another text. So, Ben, I think it's your turn. 00:25:15.329 --> 00:25:17.809 I got you. Yeah, I'm internally trying to resist 00:25:17.809 --> 00:25:20.230 the urge to talk to you about video games. We'll 00:25:20.230 --> 00:25:24.369 do that off mic. Let's keep it moving. Let's 00:25:24.369 --> 00:25:29.230 keep it moving. Yes. So I focused on the Luke 00:25:29.230 --> 00:25:34.369 13 passage. This is from May 23rd. Jesus does 00:25:34.369 --> 00:25:36.769 a little bit of a controversial healing on the 00:25:36.769 --> 00:25:39.710 Sabbath. So I'm going to read this text. Now 00:25:39.710 --> 00:25:42.130 he, who's Jesus, was teaching in one of the synagogues 00:25:42.130 --> 00:25:44.390 on the Sabbath. And behold, there was a woman 00:25:44.390 --> 00:25:48.970 who had a disabling spirit for 18 years. Wow. 00:25:49.769 --> 00:25:51.849 She was bent over and could not fully straighten 00:25:51.849 --> 00:25:54.970 herself. When Jesus saw her, he called her over 00:25:54.970 --> 00:25:57.509 and said to her, woman, you are freed from your 00:25:57.509 --> 00:25:59.710 disability. And he laid his hands on her and 00:25:59.710 --> 00:26:02.250 immediately she was made straight and she glorified 00:26:02.250 --> 00:26:05.339 God. But the ruler of the synagogue, indignant 00:26:05.339 --> 00:26:07.480 because Jesus was healed on the Sabbath, said 00:26:07.480 --> 00:26:09.859 to the people, There are six days on which work 00:26:09.859 --> 00:26:12.420 ought to be done. Come on those days and be healed 00:26:12.420 --> 00:26:14.859 and not on the Sabbath day. And then the Lord 00:26:14.859 --> 00:26:17.799 answered him, You hypocrites! Does not each of 00:26:17.799 --> 00:26:20.299 you on the Sabbath untie his ox or his donkey 00:26:20.299 --> 00:26:22.500 from the manger and lead it away to water it? 00:26:22.660 --> 00:26:25.200 And ought not this woman, a daughter of Abraham, 00:26:25.380 --> 00:26:27.920 who Satan bound for eighteen years, be loosed 00:26:27.920 --> 00:26:30.400 from this bond on the Sabbath day? As he said 00:26:30.400 --> 00:26:32.700 of these things, all his adversaries blip up 00:26:32.700 --> 00:26:35.099 to shame and the people rejoiced at all the glorious 00:26:35.099 --> 00:26:38.640 things that were done by him. A lot to unpack 00:26:38.640 --> 00:26:40.880 in this text, like even in terms of like demonization 00:26:40.880 --> 00:26:43.319 manifested as physical sickness and illness. 00:26:43.640 --> 00:26:47.640 But the thing that stood out to me was the two 00:26:47.640 --> 00:26:51.440 responses we see to God's power. When that lady 00:26:51.440 --> 00:26:55.480 is healed. she immediately gives glory to God. 00:26:55.819 --> 00:26:59.200 She gets it. She recognizes that this is an act 00:26:59.200 --> 00:27:01.039 of the Lord. This is within his will. This is 00:27:01.039 --> 00:27:03.980 something that he is doing for his people. This 00:27:03.980 --> 00:27:06.740 is redemption. But the leader of the synagogue 00:27:06.740 --> 00:27:11.559 is caught up in his own internal rules. And so 00:27:11.559 --> 00:27:15.140 it leads him to make this like, like very like 00:27:15.140 --> 00:27:20.079 snide aside. Cause it says it was indignant. 00:27:20.079 --> 00:27:22.910 And he said to the people, He watches this go 00:27:22.910 --> 00:27:26.950 on and he's like, y 'all saw that here, you know? 00:27:28.349 --> 00:27:31.990 And once again, like, like it's easy to dunk 00:27:31.990 --> 00:27:35.250 on the Pharisees and the Jews at the time. The 00:27:35.250 --> 00:27:38.490 thing, the heart work that I brought out of this 00:27:38.490 --> 00:27:42.289 for me was what rules am I holding on to or what 00:27:42.289 --> 00:27:45.609 presuppositions about what my life is supposed 00:27:45.609 --> 00:27:48.130 to look like are preventing me from giving glory 00:27:48.130 --> 00:27:51.930 to God with what he does. Because, guys, there 00:27:51.930 --> 00:27:57.089 are stuff in all of our lives that we look at 00:27:57.089 --> 00:28:04.029 him and we're like, why? Why? This isn't in the 00:28:04.029 --> 00:28:06.009 right order, God. Or this is not the way that 00:28:06.009 --> 00:28:12.049 I wanted this to go. This is not the coffee I 00:28:12.049 --> 00:28:14.710 ordered. I wanted oat milk. But in that, we miss 00:28:14.710 --> 00:28:17.509 what he's doing in the middle of something that 00:28:17.509 --> 00:28:21.460 surprises us. So that's what I pulled from this. 00:28:22.119 --> 00:28:25.900 Is there an area where I'm being a hypocrite 00:28:25.900 --> 00:28:29.700 like those people, recognizing what I call good 00:28:29.700 --> 00:28:32.559 and claiming it higher than the good that Christ 00:28:32.559 --> 00:28:37.119 has? You know, I wasn't even thinking of it like 00:28:37.119 --> 00:28:39.099 that. And I'm always talking about how we should 00:28:39.099 --> 00:28:41.240 put ourselves into Scripture. And it's so true, 00:28:41.380 --> 00:28:43.599 man, because you look at this. And like I said, 00:28:43.640 --> 00:28:48.319 it is so easy. It's so easy just to make fun 00:28:48.319 --> 00:28:51.960 of, dunk on, as you said, the Pharisees and the 00:28:51.960 --> 00:28:55.240 way the people respond. But we still do the same 00:28:55.240 --> 00:28:58.319 things. Like I said, it's not laid out in Scripture 00:28:58.319 --> 00:29:00.740 as obvious as this, because we read this and 00:29:00.740 --> 00:29:04.900 we're like, come on, man. Indignant over someone 00:29:04.900 --> 00:29:07.460 getting healed? Really? Like you made Jesus get 00:29:07.460 --> 00:29:09.420 an exclamation point. You know how hard it is 00:29:09.420 --> 00:29:16.490 for them to... But it's so true, man, that we 00:29:16.490 --> 00:29:21.670 still do the same things today. And I personally 00:29:21.670 --> 00:29:27.170 feel a great deal of tension internally about 00:29:27.170 --> 00:29:31.230 when people are saying God is working in ways 00:29:31.230 --> 00:29:33.740 that I don't understand. Like, John, you had 00:29:33.740 --> 00:29:37.140 mentioned earlier the slain in the spirit thing. 00:29:37.980 --> 00:29:40.099 I have no experience with that, and I haven't 00:29:40.099 --> 00:29:42.859 really spent a lot of time in charismatic churches. 00:29:43.200 --> 00:29:45.839 I tend to work at ones that look like this, and 00:29:45.839 --> 00:29:49.759 so that's just not my area. And when you get 00:29:49.759 --> 00:29:51.480 to stuff that doesn't look like it's there in 00:29:51.480 --> 00:29:55.319 Scripture, there are questions. But I also know 00:29:55.319 --> 00:29:57.420 people that are within that denomination that 00:29:57.420 --> 00:30:00.920 have experienced real fruit. I know people who 00:30:00.920 --> 00:30:06.440 have received a prophetic word or who view tongues 00:30:06.440 --> 00:30:09.599 differently than I do theologically, that that 00:30:09.599 --> 00:30:11.700 has blessed them and moved them closer to Jesus. 00:30:12.339 --> 00:30:15.579 And so there's this weird tension of like, God, 00:30:15.640 --> 00:30:19.059 I don't really... This is not as obvious as I 00:30:19.059 --> 00:30:21.259 would like it to be in scripture. How do you 00:30:21.259 --> 00:30:23.279 handle this? What do you think about this? And 00:30:23.279 --> 00:30:27.259 I look at Jesus's... the first thing he says 00:30:27.259 --> 00:30:30.839 to this woman, you are freed of your disability. 00:30:31.319 --> 00:30:33.539 He doesn't say be healed, which he says a lot, 00:30:33.720 --> 00:30:36.299 but you are freed from your disability. And it 00:30:36.299 --> 00:30:38.339 makes me think that when we get to the end of 00:30:38.339 --> 00:30:41.539 all this, when the role is called up yonder, 00:30:41.599 --> 00:30:44.900 as it were. I'll be there. I told you you'd finish 00:30:44.900 --> 00:30:48.339 any song lyric I quoted. When the role is called 00:30:48.339 --> 00:30:51.940 up yonder. It's not going to be like, all right, 00:30:52.000 --> 00:30:54.720 get out your fact sheets. Which denomination 00:30:54.720 --> 00:30:59.059 got the closest to what God's real intended thing 00:30:59.059 --> 00:31:04.740 is? It's going to be you are freed from your 00:31:04.740 --> 00:31:07.680 disability. You are freed from your sin sickness. 00:31:08.180 --> 00:31:10.960 And I don't care whether you believe that the 00:31:10.960 --> 00:31:13.099 body of Christ is literally the bread and the 00:31:13.099 --> 00:31:15.420 wine at communion, you believe in being slain 00:31:15.420 --> 00:31:17.660 in the spirit or holy laughter, or you believe 00:31:17.660 --> 00:31:19.380 that congregational singing is an opportunity 00:31:19.380 --> 00:31:21.240 to stick your hands in your pockets and mumble 00:31:21.240 --> 00:31:25.720 a couple of words. Like, he will free us all 00:31:25.720 --> 00:31:28.680 from what binds us and keeps us. But the issue 00:31:28.680 --> 00:31:32.410 is we like lists more than liberty. Come on. 00:31:32.470 --> 00:31:34.509 So that's really the problem, and that's what 00:31:34.509 --> 00:31:36.710 Galatians is all about, the freedom that we've 00:31:36.710 --> 00:31:39.650 been given because it's easier to follow a list. 00:31:39.910 --> 00:31:42.450 I mean, I'll be honest with you. My first church 00:31:42.450 --> 00:31:45.509 down the road was a church that, I mean, when 00:31:45.509 --> 00:31:49.170 I say a list, they had a list of things you had 00:31:49.170 --> 00:31:52.650 to do to go to heaven and what was sin and what 00:31:52.650 --> 00:31:54.710 wasn't sin. I mean, they had it down to a T. 00:31:55.329 --> 00:31:58.809 Women didn't wear pants, and men had to wear 00:31:58.809 --> 00:32:01.400 suits when they came to church. Really? Yeah, 00:32:01.420 --> 00:32:03.319 if you wanted to go to heaven. If you had to 00:32:03.319 --> 00:32:05.740 go to heaven. Those were salvation issues? Yes, 00:32:05.960 --> 00:32:07.740 at this church. Now, it wasn't a church I was 00:32:07.740 --> 00:32:10.779 at. It was a church down the street. No, no, 00:32:10.779 --> 00:32:15.200 no. This was a church down the street, and it 00:32:15.200 --> 00:32:17.779 was the largest church in Asheboro. Interesting. 00:32:17.779 --> 00:32:20.559 So it was really surprising because, I mean, 00:32:20.559 --> 00:32:23.220 they would bus these kids in and actually do 00:32:23.220 --> 00:32:25.059 their Sunday school classes and stuff on the 00:32:25.059 --> 00:32:29.700 bus. And anyways, it just, it's... Even today, 00:32:30.000 --> 00:32:32.380 there are these churches that are thriving because 00:32:32.380 --> 00:32:34.980 people want to list. It's easier if they know 00:32:34.980 --> 00:32:38.099 A, B, C, and D versus saying, okay, I've got 00:32:38.099 --> 00:32:40.160 to listen to the voice of the Holy Spirit. Does 00:32:40.160 --> 00:32:43.039 this convict my conscience? Because to be honest 00:32:43.039 --> 00:32:45.740 with you, some things that are sin for me may 00:32:45.740 --> 00:32:48.400 not be sin for you because of the freedom that 00:32:48.400 --> 00:32:52.769 I have in God. This woman, I mean, she was experiencing 00:32:52.769 --> 00:32:57.230 that because here was this list that these Pharisees 00:32:57.230 --> 00:32:59.670 had. And I mean, it's funny to me that somebody 00:32:59.670 --> 00:33:01.450 would go to Jesus and say, hey, look, you're 00:33:01.450 --> 00:33:05.170 messing up our list. And instead of him saying, 00:33:05.309 --> 00:33:07.609 you know what, I apologize for messing up your 00:33:07.609 --> 00:33:10.410 list, he just looks at him and goes, your list 00:33:10.410 --> 00:33:13.049 is garbage. Yeah. You know, you hypocrite. So 00:33:13.049 --> 00:33:15.009 I'm sorry, sir. I don't see your healing on the 00:33:15.009 --> 00:33:17.369 Sabbath permit, you know? Yes, yes, exactly. 00:33:17.630 --> 00:33:19.390 Exactly. And so, I mean, it's just two points 00:33:19.390 --> 00:33:21.150 on your license. It's just one of those things 00:33:21.150 --> 00:33:23.930 where, you know, again, it's now that doesn't 00:33:23.930 --> 00:33:26.269 give us a freedom to just go out and sin. The 00:33:26.269 --> 00:33:29.400 Bible says, don't do it. Don't. do it well and 00:33:29.400 --> 00:33:31.500 shall we send the gracious abound more by no 00:33:31.500 --> 00:33:34.640 means i mean paul says that yeah so but here's 00:33:34.640 --> 00:33:37.460 where i tell people like on other issues that 00:33:37.460 --> 00:33:40.099 are not specifically stated thou shalt not okay 00:33:40.099 --> 00:33:43.480 i tell them three things one does it bother my 00:33:43.480 --> 00:33:46.220 conscience right because the bible makes it clear 00:33:46.220 --> 00:33:48.259 if it bothers your conscience that's the holy 00:33:48.259 --> 00:33:50.900 spirit speaking to you it's a sin for you you 00:33:50.900 --> 00:33:53.259 know for some people It's a sin to go to rated 00:33:53.259 --> 00:33:55.460 R movies for other people. They feel the freedom 00:33:55.460 --> 00:33:59.400 and lacks to be able to do that, right? And so 00:33:59.400 --> 00:34:01.680 they've got that freedom, at least they feel. 00:34:01.779 --> 00:34:04.160 So if it bothers your conscience, you don't go, 00:34:04.299 --> 00:34:06.779 right? The second one is, does it offend a brother? 00:34:06.940 --> 00:34:09.239 Now, this is a very, you got to be real careful 00:34:09.239 --> 00:34:11.260 with this. You do. Because let's be honest, the 00:34:11.260 --> 00:34:14.940 people that are very ultra conservative, they 00:34:14.940 --> 00:34:16.760 can say, well, that offends me. Well, no, no, 00:34:16.780 --> 00:34:19.119 that's not the offense. The offense is, I'll 00:34:19.119 --> 00:34:22.639 use an alcohol as an example. A guy struggles 00:34:22.639 --> 00:34:26.019 with alcoholism. He's a drunk. He finally gets 00:34:26.019 --> 00:34:29.059 free of it. But he sees a brother in Christ now 00:34:29.059 --> 00:34:31.519 participating in it. And he sees that he's got 00:34:31.519 --> 00:34:33.260 the freedom to do it. And he says to himself, 00:34:33.500 --> 00:34:36.219 well, I'm going to go back. And so he goes back. 00:34:36.239 --> 00:34:38.840 He falls. That's the offense. It takes him back 00:34:38.840 --> 00:34:41.920 into a place where he doesn't need to be. Yes. 00:34:41.920 --> 00:34:45.719 And so there is... The other issue, does it cause 00:34:45.719 --> 00:34:49.039 a believer to be offended? The third thing is, 00:34:49.059 --> 00:34:52.599 will it affect my witness as a Christian to a 00:34:52.599 --> 00:34:57.019 non -believer? If I can answer all three of those 00:34:57.019 --> 00:35:00.000 in saying this is not impactful, then it's not 00:35:00.000 --> 00:35:03.579 a sin to me. But if in any way, any of those, 00:35:03.739 --> 00:35:06.599 then I have to say, okay, it's a sin to me. Now, 00:35:06.619 --> 00:35:09.139 that doesn't mean I now get to put it on you. 00:35:09.889 --> 00:35:12.289 Right? There's that freedom, that liberty. I 00:35:12.289 --> 00:35:14.150 don't put that on you. God has brought it to 00:35:14.150 --> 00:35:17.289 my attention. Jesus is the one who decides what 00:35:17.289 --> 00:35:20.050 to ask each specific one of us within the realm 00:35:20.050 --> 00:35:23.710 of the laws that he's laid down. So my list may 00:35:23.710 --> 00:35:26.389 be different than yours based on the liberty 00:35:26.389 --> 00:35:28.949 that we have in Christ. Go Flames. Oh, different 00:35:28.949 --> 00:35:32.289 liberty. My bad, my bad. There you go. No, that's 00:35:32.289 --> 00:35:34.250 a great point to bring out. And it goes back, 00:35:34.289 --> 00:35:36.840 all the way back. to the listening that Sean 00:35:36.840 --> 00:35:39.079 was talking about earlier. If you're not locked 00:35:39.079 --> 00:35:41.820 in and listening to the Holy Spirit, you're not 00:35:41.820 --> 00:35:44.260 going to know what he's asking you to do or what 00:35:44.260 --> 00:35:47.980 he's freed you to. Yeah, it's both of those things. 00:35:48.820 --> 00:35:51.480 Well, gents, this has been a fun conversation. 00:35:51.920 --> 00:35:53.820 We never know exactly how these are going to 00:35:53.820 --> 00:35:56.119 go. We don't. We talk about, hey, what text are 00:35:56.119 --> 00:35:58.880 you going to do? But that's it. But that's never 00:35:58.880 --> 00:36:00.579 real. Like we don't, we don't go super in depth 00:36:00.579 --> 00:36:03.119 into it beforehand. And so seeing the way that 00:36:03.119 --> 00:36:04.860 those line up, I really hadn't even taken mine 00:36:04.860 --> 00:36:08.199 that direction either. Yeah. But no, I love it. 00:36:08.219 --> 00:36:09.579 What happens when we get together and we talk 00:36:09.579 --> 00:36:13.340 about scripture. So guys, anything else y 'all 00:36:13.340 --> 00:36:16.019 want to add before we sign off here on pursuing 00:36:16.019 --> 00:36:21.599 Jesus is episode 21, by the way, summertime and 00:36:21.599 --> 00:36:25.280 the living is easy. It's summer, man. It's summer. 00:36:26.630 --> 00:36:28.730 Would you say blackjack? No, John would never 00:36:28.730 --> 00:36:30.429 say that. He doesn't know what that is. He's 00:36:30.429 --> 00:36:33.829 an SBC preacher. He doesn't know what blackjack 00:36:33.829 --> 00:36:36.949 is. Oh, man, look at his face. He's royal flushing. 00:36:40.030 --> 00:36:43.269 And with that, I have been Ben Smith. I have 00:36:43.269 --> 00:36:45.690 been John Griffin. And I'm John Ferguson. This 00:36:45.690 --> 00:36:47.610 is Pursuing Jesus. We're grateful for you guys. 00:36:47.670 --> 00:36:50.929 We'll catch you on the next episode. Later. Goodbye. 00:36:53.840 --> 00:36:56.920 Pursuing Jesus is a ministry of Memorial Baptist 00:36:56.920 --> 00:36:59.840 Church in North Carolina. To learn more about 00:36:59.840 --> 00:37:03.880 our church, please visit memorial4norwood .com. 00:37:13.659 --> 00:37:15.320 Say that line one more time. No!