Hey, hey, hey, welcome to Pursuing Jesus. We
are going to talk today about sacred cows. That's
right, you heard it here, sacred cows. You will
have to listen in, check things out. Today was
really awesome, so we hope you are excited and
ready to give it a listen. I felt like that was
something. It was an old ringtone. Is that a
ringtone? I think it's like an old Blackberry
ringtone. Yes. It's something. I used to have
it. That's why I know it. Okay, so what was the
Blackberry experience like? I couldn't tell you
it's been that long ago. Like a real keyboard.
I kind of miss it. Have you all seen the attachments
like they're selling on Instagram or whatever
where it's a keyboard that magnetizes to the
back of your iPhone and it slides down and so
you've got a physical keyboard to type on? I
do miss a physical keyboard. Really? Do you feel
like it would make more or less spelling errors?
Because those buttons are itty -bitty. That's
one of the reasons that I go for a big screen
because then you have... Bigger keys. Now, have
you seen Tiffany's phone? No, I haven't. What
does she have? I don't even know if they make
it anymore, but it's an older iPhone, but it's
called the iPhone Mini. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And
it is tiny. That's not that old. That's like
maybe two, three generations ago. I don't know
if they've stopped making them. I think they've
stopped putting that one out. Dang. But it is,
it's a challenge to type on that one. Yeah. I
remember when my son got the first, like what,
XL iPhone. Yeah. And I was like. dude, they're
going to eventually come out with like a tablet
for a phone, you know, as big as that thing was.
And now I have the big one and I'm like, I think
it's the pro is what it's called now. Well, they've
hinted at the folding ones like because Samsung
has been doing it for five. I've been right,
but they've hinted at the folding ones that like
you can use it one way and then open it and it's
another way. Yeah, I don't know if they'll the
really funny thing about that though is before
touchscreen phone started coming out yeah the
trend was smaller and smaller and smaller yes
and now we're trending the opposite direction
but think about the usage of the phone at the
time we're smaller oh yeah it made sense um versus
the usage now i mean now it's like like phone
text social media people watching movies stuff
like that but back in the day when it was like
you got nine you know what is that the typing
call where you have to press 116 oh i had that
with my flip phone uh It is something nine. It's
something, I don't remember what the first word
is. T9? T9? Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, you didn't
have to push it six times. You could only push
it up to three times because, you know, it was
like if you were using the last letter that was
on that number, you pressed it three times to
use that letter, and then, yeah. Now, as much
as I want to go back to a physical keyboard,
I do not want to go back to the T9. Okay, that's
a bridge too far, you think? Oh, that's too far.
Yeah, I think we hit peak cell phones with the
slide -out keypads. You know, you had the like
the nice little click there and it was like a
T -Mobile had the best one T -Mobile because
it was exclusive to T -Mobile and they had the
sidekick which flipped out and I was always switchblade
phone. I was always jealous because I did not
have T -Mobile and so I did not have the flip
out keyboard that was it was and I was very jealous
of my friends at school who had the flip out
keyboard. Yeah, no, I hear on that one. Well,
speaking of... Speaking of flip out phones, welcome
to Pursuing Jesus. No. I think it's good that
the congregation hears some of the deep... rigorous
theological discourse that we have before we
press record sometimes. You know, it just goes
to show you that God cares about every aspect
of our lives, not just when we're explicitly
discussing theology. Including cell phones, right?
Including, listen, I think God has a lot to say
about our cell phones. I think that's a whole
different podcast right there. I mean, I'm dead
serious. Somebody write that down. So we've got,
we have AI. We talked about AI. We did. It was
a long intro. Long intro. But I still think I
heard some people that want more. Dead Sea Scrolls,
AI. Jesus and Your Cell Phone. That's three special
episodes. Just the topic of technology, we could
subcategorize that into a couple months worth
of podcast material. Let's just be honest. Digital
Jesus. We're going to find some zany name to
call it too. First century text 21st century.
That's why we have you. We have you, Mr. What
are you? He's not a millennial. No, he's not
millennial. You're Gen Z, aren't you? I am right
on the border. I was born in 99. dating myself
here um and so like oh yeah don't don't date
yourself too far with 99 no i said that for y
'all's benefit so i have some millennial tendencies
and i have some zillennial tendencies um but
there are people within my age range like hate
being identified with both groups urgency You
think decidedly I'm a Gen Z because you hate
being labeled. Yes, you're a Gen Z. Oh, shut
up. Man, congregation, what you just heard is
that hit right home. I'm not going to deal with
that. John, do you want to start us with your
text? Save me some of my dignity. Yeah, let's
do that. Let's do that. Yeah, I took April 26th.
It was a really short passage, and I'm looking
at the one in Matthew, Matthew 11, verses 20
to 24, because there's a lot of questions a lot
of times that come up from this passage, simply
because Jesus calls out some cities. I mean,
really. really calls them out. I mean, 21, woe
to you, Chorazin. Woe to you, Bethsaida, for
if the miracles had occurred in you, which had
occurred in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented
long ago in sackcloth and ashes. Nevertheless,
I say to you, it would be more tolerable for
Tyre and Sidon on the day of judgment than for
you. And you, Capernaum, which will not be exalted
to heaven, will you? You will be brought down
to Hades, for if the miracles that occurred in
you had been occurred in Sodom, it would have
remained to this day. And so he compares these
cities that he did his miracles in to some of
the worst cities in the Old Testament times.
I mean, just look at the last one. He said that
Sodom basically was better than Capernaum, right?
I mean, it's because of what he did in Capernaum.
That was Jesus' home base for a while. Yes, yes.
And so they saw some of the most incredible miracles,
whereas Sodom... really saw the judgment of God.
They, you know, I mean, let's just be honest.
Too little, too late, bud. He brought down fire,
brimstone, tore those cities up. Now, granted,
he did. Lot was a messenger of hope there. I
don't know how much hope he brought them. And
then those angels came down and visited among
them. But, you know, God brought down destruction
upon them because of their great sin. Whereas
Capernaum... as opposed to receiving the judgment,
they received the miracles. They got to see Jesus
heal the blind, make the lame to walk. Yeah.
All those incredible things. So what this says
to me today and what I get from it, I'm going
to kind of use a Spider -Man line. I told you
I was going to do that earlier. With great power
comes great responsibility. There it is. But
what it is is with more knowledge comes greater
responsibility. In other words, a lot of people
have asked the question, are there different
levels of hell? And the answer is, it seems so.
It seems that those who have greater knowledge
and deny it and push away from it, there is going
to be a greater judgment on them. Now, there's
another passage that teaches this in the Gospel
of Luke. Specifically, he who has much will be
beaten with many stripes, he who has little will
be beaten with fewer stripes. And it seems to
detail that those that have more knowledge. And
so I wanted to kind of equate that to Our country.
I wonder how much trouble are we going to be
in in America with the knowledge of the gospel
that we have and the denial that is put forth
in so many places. What do you think the denial
looks like here? Yeah, that's a good question.
Because I think there's an important distinguisher
here. So what do you think America's denial looks
like? Well, I mean, you look at how many people
want to talk about we are not founded on freedom
or, you know, a lot of people want to deny that
we were founded on Christian principles when
they came over, the Puritans and the different
ones that came over during that time. But I think
the denial really is the fact that you've got
to look at the northeast. If you've ever studied
the Great Awakening, the great revivals of America.
They occurred in the Northeast, and now the Northeast
is 1%, 2%, and 3 % churched. Connecticut, Vermont,
Maine, Massachusetts. These were the prime driven
places with great preachers like Jonathan Edwards.
The original seminaries and all that. Yes. And
now look at them with their denial. There are
so few. In church, there is such a transformation
of the seminaries, like you said, the colleges.
Most people don't realize this, but Harvard was
a Christian school. Isn't that wild? Yeah. And
then let's bring it down to the South where we're
at, right? The denial now is we want a Jesus
our way, not the Jesus of the Bible. And so I
think the denial is different from us because,
you know, In our own community, I think we are,
in Stanley County, 46 % churched. I think that's
right. When I was in Tennessee, the community
there was like 44 % churched. I've been in Alabama,
and in that community, I think it was like 56%.
So you're talking at least midway range. But
even in the church, there is a denial. of Christ
and his miracles, there's a denial of the true
and genuine Jesus. Yeah, absolutely. We formulate
him into our own opinion. So that's kind of where
I see America being in, almost, we're heading
kind of in the ways of Europe in a lot of ways.
Honestly, John, I completely see where you're
coming from. So one of the interesting trends
that... I feel like we watched happen in the
Northeast, and I'm a little nervous about what
I see here in the South. I mean, I'm from the
South. I spent a little bit of time in Ohio.
I don't sound like it, but I was born in Alabama.
O -H -I -O. Listen, man, it's my family. So Maddie's
family of origin is like they're they're Buckeyes
through and through when Ohio State has played
Alabama like like I don't get a text for a week
beforehand or a week after it's a party. It's
a party. So not to get us off on a too much of
a squirrel, but I am genuinely curious because
what I know of Ohio is OH and you responded with
IO. Is that a sports thing or is that a state
thing? Yes. So it belongs to a certain. It does
belong to a certain like. to the buckeyes the
ohio ohio state but you need to understand that
like it is deeply culturally unified. Dude, they
got OSU stuff every... So there's not like another
big college. They're like other Ohioans. When
her family comes down, you need to introduce
them to Kellen Rankin. Kellen is the biggest
Michigan fan and that is their main rival. It
is their main rival. I think, you know, Kellen,
no offense, I am not letting you anywhere near
my head loss when they come down. But no, it's...
It's real, dude. When they lost the national
championship relatively recently, like the Thompson's
went into a season of mourning. But isn't that
what they do in Alabama, too? Oh, 100%. All I'm
saying is that Ohio is singular focus. At least
in Alabama, you got Alabama and Auburn. And so
when they lose to one another, that other group
doesn't come to church. I know this personally.
I'm sure you do. I'm sure you do. This sets me
up really well, though. So like these deeply
ingrained. sports rivalries and sports allegiances.
Listen, dude, I watch football. Not a bunch,
but I do. And there's nothing wrong with our
enjoyment of sports. But these deeply ingrained...
sports rivalries i think are indicative of traditions
that have become part of the culture yeah that
people just like dude they sink their they sink
their teeth into it and it's because it's fun
to do so but if you look at to bring it way back
to what we're talking about the northeast if
you look back at the direction that a lot of
the church populations went there. They didn't
just go straight from flourishing in the great
awakening to dead. Their very next step was to
idolize their traditions. Yeah. Yeah. Kind of
like a slow fade. Like that one song. Yeah. Casting
crowns. Shout out to them. Yep. but like they
need a shout out. They need some help. Do they?
No. Shout out Casting Crowns, the biggest worship
group that there is right now. They're doing
great. I just like their music. Listen, I got
saved. Oh, I love Casting Crowns. I got saved
through Casting Crowns song. Okay, I'm for it.
Dude, Mark Hall, full -time youth pastor, full
-time going and doing concerts. Incredible. Incredible.
Yeah. Full -time nerd. Yeah, for sure. But all
that to say, like, I think that the path to the
death of the church is paved with worshiping
tradition over genuine commitment to biblical
authority and genuine commitment to lay down
our preferences at the throne of Jesus. Because
then it has the appearance of godliness. I can't
remember where it says this in the Gospels. The
appearance of godliness, but it denies its power.
And this goes back to, I mean, it fit in exactly
in with what John was saying. And even we talked
about this, I believe, on last week's podcast
of the consumer mentality of church. Yeah. And
it's just all of it. It's so difficult because
we are consumer -minded culture. And so it is.
It's not like we're just blasting people, be
like, man, you need to stop doing this about
church. No. This is difficult for us as Americans.
Oh, yeah. It really is because everything. that
we do is we're putting the shiniest stuff in
front of our eyes, and we're doing all this stuff,
and it's all of this consumer -driven mentality.
And so, of course, when we get to church, we
are going to look for, hey, what do you got for
my kids? How good is your worship? How good is
the preaching? How is this? Or whatever it is
that you're looking for, whatever that niche
is. Niche? Niche. Niche. Niche. Niche. Thank
you. Whatever that is, you're going to go out
and look for it. Genuinely. And so, But that's
what we're talking about. We need to overcome
that. And we need to be able to look and say,
hey, just because we do this at the grocery store,
just because we do this shopping for cars or
whatever else in our American life that we do,
we need to realize this is not the same when
it comes to spiritual matters. No, but I'll tell
you this. So like a very close to home example
for me actually is with worship. So I'm going
to tell a story here. When I graduated Cedarville
with my degree, I had some very specific preferences
about worship music. I leaned hardcore contemporary
and like, just kind of like, like felt like the
hymns were dusty and dry and blah. The church
that I served at first hired me on to be like
a contemporary input to what is, was more of
a traditional context. And man, the first year
I was like, Oh, we're going to play come now
found again. Come on a mighty fortress. Seriously.
Like, like I had this attitude is like, this
is, this is, this is dead. This is old, this
is dusty. But can I tell you, the Lord convicted
me so hard about that when I was there. Both
in terms of letting me see the legacy of the
believers that have gone before us and left us
these rich hymns. But man, that was me putting
my traditions and my preferences over what the
needs of the church were. Because there were
people there that got fed by those. And the Lord
was gracious enough to humble me and teach me,
these have value, and if you put your traditions
before me, you will lose me. Hey, I've got a
question. Okay. And so I'm about to get us off
topic of... where we're going as far as the pursuing
Jesus devotion, but I'm staying on Bible. So
are y 'all cool with that? We're staying on Bible.
Let's do it. So, cause I have a legit question
that I think you might be able to help me with.
I've mentioned it that I've been, I've been reading
the Psalms along with the pursuing Jesus devotion
and I've been there. And there's a phrase that's
been repeated many times. And I'm wondering just
because of your degree, because of being worship,
it's about music. If you understand it, or if
you've looked into this, And what you just said
reminded me. And that is many times, and I believe
it's mainly David in his Psalms, he will say,
sing to me a new song. Why does he say a new
song? Do you have any idea? I'm just telling
you, we have not discussed this. I'm just throwing
this on you. Because he liked the contemporary
Christian group's new song. Please don't call
them contemporary. Moving on. They forced themselves
to stay in the winter gym. They were awesome.
Because they run winter gym. Because they run
it. And that's why they're still relevant. Their
vocal harmonies are great. But do you have any
idea? Yeah. So Colossians 3 .16. teach and admonish
one another with psalms, hymns, and spiritual
songs. And so this is part of my own philosophy
of worship. The way I interpret that is psalms
is as believers sing psalms, P -S -A -L -M -S,
from the text that the Lord gave us, the Hebrew
hymn book, whatever, whatever. Hymns, I would
interpret as established songs of the church.
We've been singing these for a while. Let's draw
this out here. That has nothing to do with style.
Sure. Oh, yeah, absolutely. Because back then,
dude, they didn't have organs. The Romans had
a water organ, but that was really expensive.
And it was mainly probably sung a cappella. You
should look it up. It's actually a water organ.
Yeah, so rather than running on air, it ran on
water. It was really neat. Nerd alert here. Now
I want to hear this. Spiritual songs. You should
look it up. It's very ambient, like the Minecraft
soundtrack. Oh, cool. spiritual songs, commentators
fight over this pretty consistently. Some say
songs that were spontaneous, like from that moment.
Some say songs that the Holy Spirit gave them.
Some say spiritual songs were just new stuff.
And I tend to give a big fat yes to each of those.
But what I think David means there is like...
Have you ever not been able to find the words
to express something outside of what you could
say yourself? All the time. Right. Like, if you're
only trying to use the words that other people
have given you, sometimes it just doesn't quite
fit. And so I think when David says, sing a new
song of the Lord, it's like, take what God has
done in your life for you through the power of
his Holy Spirit as he works in you and your experiences
and your personality, pour that back out as a
unique offering to the Lord. And the blessing
of that is that at times, you know, that gets
to feed even more people. Like, I had a buddy
who was at... a Chris Tomlin concert when he
sang how great is our God for the first time.
So like, like quintessential, like, like one
of the defining Christian songs of the, the two
thousands, how great is our God. And Chris was
like, you know, this is just a simple song we're
working on. Not really sure it's going to go
anywhere. We feel like we need to sing it to
you. Sing it. That was a spiritual song for Chris.
I think he wrote it. He wrote it. It was from
his own experience. It stood out to him at the
time. He shared it, and bam, it falls, I think,
closer to the category now of what I would consider
a hymn. Not stylistically, but it's a well -established,
accepted truth of the church. Interesting. When
you think about hymn, though, we always think
of what's in the Baptist hymnal or the Methodist
hymnal. And it's funny. Because if you look back
in the 15s and 1600s, those were the spiritual
songs. Yep. The contemporary songs. Uh -huh.
And what's funny to me, a lot of people, they're
so adamant about the hymns. And I love hymns.
Don't get me wrong. Holy, holy, holy. Oh, 100%.
Still my favorite hymn. It's a band. And There
is a Fountain is second, just because I wrote
it and love it. But anyways, a lot of those songs
were bar songs. Yep. And then they would change
the wording and sing it in the church. And people
that had been all night at the bar passing by
the church would hear the song and think, did
I drink too much? And end up going into the church
because they're hearing the tune to their favorite
bar song. Right. Which was a hymn. Was a hymn.
In our books now. And let's take that a step
further. They didn't have organs or pianos in
those bars. It was usually on a lute or a guitar.
both of which are predecessors of the modern
guitar. And so I understand not wanting to have
the appearance of worldliness, but you can't
just write off a whole instrument. I love that
you highlighted that, that that which is a spiritual
song can become a hymn with time and testing
and just the church singing those and getting
them into their hearts. But you know, thinking
about tradition, a buddy of mine gave me a book
in my first church, and it was called Who Moved
My Cheese? I know it sounds funny. No, that's
a good book. You have heard it. That's a good
book I've read it. No, not that. Move my cheese.
And it's phenomenal because it is the way we
get steeped in traditions. And he made his favorite
statement that he would make is. Oh, what was
it? Sacred cows make the best hamburger. Okay,
I like that. I've never heard that before. Oh,
man. My buddy, his name was Dale, and he used
that all the time. When he handed me that book,
he's like, you've got to read this book. He said,
but just know, sacred cows make the best hamburger.
And I died laughing, and I was like, I don't
think I'll ever use that in a pulpit, though.
Oh, no, you got to. Like, please. We have podcast
listeners now. They're going to be keeping you
accountable to see when you're going to use this
from the pulpit. I mean, I know we're kind of
being funny, but I think, so can you unpack that
a little bit? Because, I mean, we just kind of
skipped over sacred cows make the best hamburger.
Like, what do you think that means? Well, our
sacred cows are our traditions that we put up
there on the same frame as the Bible, right?
I've been in a church where the constitution
and bylaws of the church was more sacred than
the Bible. It was like, this is our guideline.
And so they made it a sacred cow. And we can
make a lot of things a sacred cow. We can make
it our choice of song. We can make it... I'll
just say it, a bulletin. We can make something,
a sacred cow that is really, it's not founded
in the Bible. It's just something that we have
created and made it sacred. And his thing was,
is listen, if it's not necessarily in the word
of God, it's not something that we should sit
there and hold in such high regard and high standard.
So he said, they make the best hamburger because
in truth, God would rather us grind up our sacred
cows like Israel with the golden calves to get
rid of those things because they are our idols.
They're not what God has intended for us as a
church. So following up on that, I mean, like...
What I'm hearing here with the sacred cow concept
here is that the people have a deep heart connection
to their stuff, their traditions, whatever, whatever,
that runs deeper in that one area of their lives
than their connection to the Lord. And maybe
they conflate the two. My connection to this
is my connection to Jesus. So y 'all have been
pastoring for a lot longer than I have. So I'm
really curious, how do we handle the barbecuing
of sacred cows? With grace. Kid gloves. Yeah,
that's what it is. Yeah. How do we do that? Recognizing
that people are like tied up in these things.
These have meaning for people, even if they've
outgrown their rightful place. And I mean, the
words you just used. Grace is that. And I believe
that comes in the form of one -on -one heartfelt
conversations. That's where I think it begins
is just sitting down and talking to someone.
It's like, hey, man, so tell me. Because there's
got to be a story. There has to be a story of
why this became so big. Sometimes it has to do
with what your grandma did. I mean, there's a
lot of stories there. Without knowing a story,
it's so easy to attack something. But you sit
down and you sit down and talk with them and
be like, hey, so tell me about this. Tell me
about why this thing is so important to you.
Hey, let's have a conversation here. And then
I think that always helps it out because then
it also humanizes both sides. Yeah, because you're
right. I mean, for them, it is. Usually it goes
back to, like you said, grandma or even mama.
And it's just like there's something that they
hold on to. It could be just a memory. And it's
like you're changing things, and this is the
way my mama always did it. This is the way my
grandma always did it. And when you begin to
change things, it affects people because it affects
their memories. And they're like, you're saying
that this is not good. No, it's not we're not
saying that it's not good. It's just we. I guess
the best way to say it is the way we used to
say it. God's word doesn't change, but the methods
do. And so we change methods, and some people
get upset with changing of methods. But I think
one great preacher asked, his church was dying.
I mean, it was a church of 70 and older. And
he asked his church, he said, listen, he said,
we're not reaching any young people. We are not
making a difference. What do we need to do? He
said, what do we need to do to capture your grandchildren?
And there was one 70 -year -old in the church
that took that and ran with it. And they started
a youth program and a kids program. that church
didn't die like most churches do. It survived
and it is thriving even to this day. So I think
it's that one guy mindset. Like if there's one
person who's willing to lay down their preferences,
be open and honest about what they're looking
for, but also be open and honest about like,
look, I'm going to set this down because I'm
pursuing Jesus over my own comfort. I think that
people rally behind those kind of people. Or
they crucify them. I'll give you like an opposite
side of that as well. I think sometimes sacred
cows can be things that are still good, but they're
keeping us from something great. So an example
that is in a different context and culture than
our church here, but in more of a suburban church
is all over the place, big churches all over
the place. I know of a church that they started
to look at VBS. And they're saying, everybody's
doing VBS. Everybody's doing it. Ours is fine.
And we're seeing kids saved, and we're seeing
all this stuff, and people are coming. But it
felt like everybody was doing Lifeway or Groove
or Answers in Genesis. And just people were just,
it was the same thing all the time. And so in
their context, they were like, hey, VBS is good.
What can we do that's better? And this was an
SBC church. They were willing to say, hey, how
can we make this better? And they completely
revamped it. didn't call it VBS, did a similar
thing, but they were willing to make those difficult
decisions, which I think showed a lot of maturity
for the leaders of that church saying, hey, it's
a good program. We like this. What can we do
better? I was like, man, that was awesome. I
wonder what that, so that setting aside the things
that are good for the things that are best. So
I wonder what that looks like in our personal
lives, like as we pursue Jesus, because I feel
like, Like, I think we can personally get in
kind of in Scots in our own traditions as well.
But like, what do you, what do y 'all think that
looks like for us as we're just like walking,
trying to pursue Jesus, like bump being a pastor,
like, like just as a Christian. Hmm. Well, and
this is something I kind of talk with my students
a lot about is I believe that I tell them that
it can be very easy to be aware of your sin.
You know, there's a lot of shame that can be
associated with your sin. There's a lot of guilt
that can be associated with your sin. And so
there's a lot of those things that my students
are very aware of. Like, you know, they realize,
okay, this is a problem. I need the Lord's help.
But they might not be aware of something good
in their life that's keeping them from Jesus.
Wow. Right? And so that's one of the things that
I really try to talk to my students about. Hey,
it's like, hey, your involvement with this, is
it keeping you from growing in the Lord? Like
it doesn't have to be something sinful. There
could be something in your life that is, let's
just call it out. Let's just call it out. Here
in Stanley County, a sacred cow. of our culture
is sports i mean i'm just gonna call it and now
i see and i have to tell my students because
there is a fine line here because we have some
amazing coaches that go to our church and that
i am very good friends with. And I believe that
sports, we even talked about it earlier, from
a broader standpoint, sports has its place in
our culture. And it has its place in gospel ministry.
Yes. I mean, it provides students with leadership
ability, teamwork, and there's so many positive
aspects. And you can bring Jesus into it. 100%.
However, I also see the opposite side of that
as well, where it becomes the... the over and
over excuse of no longer participating. But now
once again, so this is that opportunity to where
as pastors, do we just blame sports for everything?
Or do we go like the church that's VBS and say,
let's think outside of the box and say, how can
we still reach those people with the season that
they're in? Because if we just go to them and
say, You're terrible because your sports is more
important. How's that going to work? It's not
going to work. It's not going to work. We've
got to think outside of the box and think, hey,
how can we still minister to these families?
And that is where my high school Bible study
started from, as a way to think outside of the
box and how we can still reach those kids. And
it came from a teenager himself realizing, I
love sports. I love Jesus. I'm not getting fed.
Hey, Sean, what can we do? And for that to come
from him, that's huge. That's so good. I'll tell
you an example of what this has looked like in
my own life about having to set aside that which
is good for that which is best. I used to have
a very, very rigid system for doing my quiet
time. I would read a chapter. I would write down
what I got from the chapter and I would move
on. I inherited it from a youth pastor who poured
into me when I was young. I was very new in my
faith. And I think that was all I could handle
at the time. But during my college years, the
Lord really began to impress on me the importance
of prayer. Not just asking for stuff that I want,
but really more of an emotional connection of
opening my heart to the Lord and letting him
change stuff and being willing to work through
things in his presence. at his feet with that
Bible open in front of me, I had this weird tendency
to like, I would sit down and I would feel his
call. I wouldn't, I would know like, Oh, you
want me to pray? But for some reason I struggled
to shake myself out of, no, no, no. But this,
this is, this isn't, this is my, but I have a
system. I have a system. I have a, I have a plan.
I have, I have traditions. And he was kind enough
to even pull back some of his felt presence from
reading God's word that way to teach me, like,
hey, Ben, like, seek my face, man. And you will
find me in the scriptures. But if you're going
to pursue words in a page more than you're going
to pursue me, then you're missing the point.
You have the appearance of godliness, but you're
denying my power. So that's at least an example
of what it's looked like in my life of having
to give up something that is 100 % good, my process
for reading the Bible, for something that is
better, infinitely better, encountering God through
his word, but through prayer first. That's awesome,
man. And he's remixed it for me again, but this
time I listened better than the first time. And
I think it can happen in worship, too, if we're
not careful. Because, I mean, I grew up in a
traditional church where all we sang was the
hymns, and we sang the same hymns. It was on
a monthly or six -week rotation. Really? Yeah.
I mean, it's like they didn't know a lot of hymns,
and so they sang the same ones. You heard at
least Amazing Grace every six weeks, and Victory
in Jesus, and different ones like that. I don't
know. I think our worship has to grow. People,
they want to hold a hymn book, and then you've
got those that hold the tradition and are wanting
to sing it off the screen. And to be honest with
you, we shouldn't focus on a paper or a screen.
It's the person we're singing to. Amen. And we
seem to forget that. We forget that because we
want our preference of song. We want our preference
of the way we sing it. We don't want you to jazz
it up, or we want you to jazz it down, or we
want you to play it straight. And it's not bad
that we have particular ways we want songs, but
we've got to come to the realization in worship
who we're singing to. God is not concerned if
you add a drumbeat to a song or another instrument
that we may have never heard before. Well, I'm
going to break out the recorder next Sunday then.
Can I bring my brains, please? I want to hear
some different instruments. That'd be great.
Have y 'all heard Celtic worship? Yes. Oh, dude,
it's awesome. Ripping out bagpipes and in Christ
alone, sent me straight to the seventh heaven.
They are. They are on my Spotify. It's awesome.
In Christ alone, my hope is found. Oh, it's so
good. It's okay. Then if you're going to do that,
you're going to bring in Gregorian chants to
them. Don't tempt me with a good time. I would
love to do that. Can we move on, please? Because
y 'all are going to eventually bring up the banjo
and I don't want to go. Don't don't don't dudes.
Not the direction that I expected our conversation
to go. No, But I love that. It's like we just
ask questions of each other. That's church, right?
That's huge. That's community. It's the Spirit
working in and through us. I am for it. As a
matter of fact, this is a lot like what pursuing
Jesus looks like. I was going to say, in a lot
of ways, we were sitting there talking about
pursuing Jesus over and over and over again.
So it was great. Exactly. Well, speaking of which,
gentlemen, I have been Ben Smith. I have been
Sean Griffin. And I am John Ferguson. And this
has been Pursuing Jesus. Thank you guys for listening
and we will catch you next week. Bye everybody.
Pursuing Jesus is a ministry of Memorial Baptist
Church in Norwood, North Carolina. To learn more
about our church, please visit memorial4norwood
.com. Nothing really matters. Anyone can see.
It doesn't really matter to me.