WEBVTT 00:00:00.430 --> 00:00:02.529 Every church has some answer to the question, 00:00:02.649 --> 00:00:06.089 who tells the pastor he's wrong? Catholics have 00:00:06.089 --> 00:00:08.230 a pretty clear hierarchy. Your parish priest 00:00:08.230 --> 00:00:10.669 serves under a bishop. Bishops are part of a 00:00:10.669 --> 00:00:13.669 worldwide hierarchy under the Pope. There are 00:00:13.669 --> 00:00:17.109 archbishops, cardinals, diocese, archdiocese. 00:00:17.489 --> 00:00:19.949 Basically, if you keep following the organizational 00:00:19.949 --> 00:00:22.429 chart long enough, eventually you'll end up in 00:00:22.429 --> 00:00:27.050 Rome. Methodists have bishops and district superintendents. 00:00:27.809 --> 00:00:30.500 Presbyterians have presbyteries. Assemblies of 00:00:30.500 --> 00:00:33.700 God have local boards, congregational structures, 00:00:33.780 --> 00:00:36.320 with district leadership credentialing outside 00:00:36.320 --> 00:00:39.159 of the local church too. Everybody has a system. 00:00:39.439 --> 00:00:43.420 And then there are Baptists. Baptists do not 00:00:43.420 --> 00:00:46.000 particularly enjoy the phrase, someone above 00:00:46.000 --> 00:00:49.320 the local church has authority over you. We fought 00:00:49.320 --> 00:00:52.820 pretty hard for local church autonomy. Nobody's 00:00:52.820 --> 00:00:54.479 coming down here and telling us how to run our 00:00:54.479 --> 00:00:57.600 church. Nobody in a denominational office gets 00:00:57.600 --> 00:01:00.159 to appoint our pastor. and nobody outside this 00:01:00.159 --> 00:01:03.179 congregation owns us. Which sounds wonderfully 00:01:03.179 --> 00:01:06.540 independent, right? Until you ask who the pastor 00:01:06.540 --> 00:01:09.079 actually answers to. Because depending on the 00:01:09.079 --> 00:01:11.959 Baptist church, apparently the answer may be 00:01:11.959 --> 00:01:14.439 the deacon board, the finance committee, the 00:01:14.439 --> 00:01:16.819 personnel committee, the church council, the 00:01:16.819 --> 00:01:18.780 congregation, the founding families, because 00:01:18.780 --> 00:01:21.420 their grandparents poured the concrete, the largest 00:01:21.420 --> 00:01:23.780 donors, because somebody will eventually remind 00:01:23.780 --> 00:01:27.310 you who pays that pastor's salary. The volunteer 00:01:27.310 --> 00:01:29.730 leaders, because if they all quit, Wednesday 00:01:29.730 --> 00:01:32.430 nights stop functioning. And Sister Margaret, 00:01:32.629 --> 00:01:35.950 because she's been here since 1954 and has the 00:01:35.950 --> 00:01:38.329 keys to every door in the building, and nobody 00:01:38.329 --> 00:01:42.069 is entirely sure who gave them to her. So technically, 00:01:42.310 --> 00:01:45.069 the Baptist pastor answers to nobody outside 00:01:45.069 --> 00:01:47.969 the local church, and practically he may answer 00:01:47.969 --> 00:01:50.030 to everybody who has ever brought a casserole 00:01:50.030 --> 00:01:53.870 dish. Now, obviously I'm exaggerating. Well, 00:01:53.950 --> 00:01:57.390 mostly. But here's the point. Catholics have 00:01:57.390 --> 00:01:59.709 a structure. Methodists have a structure. Presbyterians 00:01:59.709 --> 00:02:01.810 have a structure. Assembly of God has a structure. 00:02:02.250 --> 00:02:04.769 Baptists have a structure too, even if we prefer 00:02:04.769 --> 00:02:07.829 to call ours autonomy. And all those systems 00:02:07.829 --> 00:02:11.789 developed for a reason. Some contain real wisdom. 00:02:11.930 --> 00:02:14.530 Some provide useful accountability. Some protect 00:02:14.530 --> 00:02:17.530 churches from one -man leadership. Some create 00:02:17.530 --> 00:02:21.650 problems for their own. But this season, we've 00:02:21.650 --> 00:02:23.689 been asking a question that's more uncomfortable. 00:02:24.159 --> 00:02:27.120 then what does our denomination do? The question 00:02:27.120 --> 00:02:30.180 is, what does scripture actually say? Because 00:02:30.180 --> 00:02:34.259 it is possible to inherit a system, grow comfortably 00:02:34.259 --> 00:02:37.900 within it, defend it, put it in the bylaws, and 00:02:37.900 --> 00:02:40.039 never ask whether the New Testament actually 00:02:40.039 --> 00:02:43.879 describes the church functioning that way. So 00:02:43.879 --> 00:02:45.939 before we decide who the pastor should answer 00:02:45.939 --> 00:02:50.479 to, Rome, a bishop, a presbytery, a district, 00:02:50.759 --> 00:02:53.560 the deacons, the finance committee, the congregation, 00:02:53.860 --> 00:02:56.419 or whoever still has the original key to the 00:02:56.419 --> 00:02:59.520 fellowship hall, maybe we should open the Bible 00:02:59.520 --> 00:03:03.560 and ask, who does Scripture say should shepherd 00:03:03.560 --> 00:03:07.759 the shepherds? Welcome to an extra shot of Grace 00:03:07.759 --> 00:03:09.180 in the Grind, the part of the podcast where the 00:03:09.180 --> 00:03:10.340 mic probably should have been turned off, but 00:03:10.340 --> 00:03:12.159 we kept talking anyways. This is a bonus space 00:03:12.159 --> 00:03:14.639 for deeper theology, harder questions, fewer 00:03:14.639 --> 00:03:16.360 filters, and a level of caffeinated commentary 00:03:16.360 --> 00:03:19.439 I should probably apologize for in advance. Grab 00:03:19.439 --> 00:03:22.620 your coffee. Take a breath. And let's get into 00:03:22.620 --> 00:03:26.300 this. Now, I'm not saying every structure is 00:03:26.300 --> 00:03:30.139 just mentioned and we're wrong, right? That would 00:03:30.139 --> 00:03:32.759 be too easy. And honestly, a little arrogant. 00:03:33.280 --> 00:03:35.439 Churches need practical structure. Somebody has 00:03:35.439 --> 00:03:37.639 to handle finances. Somebody has to deal with 00:03:37.639 --> 00:03:39.939 property. Somebody has to know whether the insurance 00:03:39.939 --> 00:03:44.159 premium got paid. There are some things I'm perfectly 00:03:44.159 --> 00:03:46.819 comfortable not finding in the book of Acts. 00:03:47.400 --> 00:03:50.560 But we have to distinguish between This is a 00:03:50.560 --> 00:03:53.020 wise way we have chosen to organize ourselves. 00:03:53.379 --> 00:03:56.120 And this is the structure Scripture gives the 00:03:56.120 --> 00:03:59.000 church. Those are not necessarily the same thing. 00:03:59.439 --> 00:04:02.620 Take deacons, for example. The New Testament 00:04:02.620 --> 00:04:06.699 clearly gives us deacons. 1 Timothy 3 gives us 00:04:06.699 --> 00:04:09.860 qualifications for them. They are important servants 00:04:09.860 --> 00:04:13.139 in the church. That does not make deacons second 00:04:13.139 --> 00:04:16.660 -class leaders. It means Scripture gives deacons 00:04:16.660 --> 00:04:19.509 and elders different responsibilities. But scripture 00:04:19.509 --> 00:04:22.410 does not clearly present deacon boards as the 00:04:22.410 --> 00:04:24.970 body responsible for governing or shepherding 00:04:24.970 --> 00:04:29.189 elders. A trustee board may provide valuable 00:04:29.189 --> 00:04:32.009 legal and financial oversight. But scripture 00:04:32.009 --> 00:04:34.750 does not say business success qualifies someone 00:04:34.750 --> 00:04:39.430 for spiritual oversight. Paul never says an overseer 00:04:39.430 --> 00:04:41.930 must be above reproach, self -controlled, able 00:04:41.930 --> 00:04:44.930 to teach, and preferably own a successful construction 00:04:44.930 --> 00:04:49.589 company. Business ability can be a gift. It's 00:04:49.589 --> 00:04:52.449 just not the qualification Scripture gives for 00:04:52.449 --> 00:04:55.329 spiritual oversight. And congregational voting 00:04:55.329 --> 00:04:57.470 can express real congregational responsibility. 00:04:58.189 --> 00:05:01.870 But 51 % is not automatically biblical wisdom. 00:05:02.370 --> 00:05:06.470 The majority can be wrong too. So instead of 00:05:06.470 --> 00:05:09.550 beginning with whatever system we inherited and 00:05:09.550 --> 00:05:13.230 then hunting for the verse to defend it, let's 00:05:13.230 --> 00:05:16.060 start with Scripture. What pattern actually emerges? 00:05:17.300 --> 00:05:20.500 One pattern shows up repeatedly. Multiple elders. 00:05:20.959 --> 00:05:23.819 Acts 14 speaks of elders being appointed in the 00:05:23.819 --> 00:05:26.620 church. Acts 20 calls together the elders of 00:05:26.620 --> 00:05:29.879 the church of Ephesus. Titus is told to appoint 00:05:29.879 --> 00:05:33.579 elders. Peter addresses elders among the flock. 00:05:34.199 --> 00:05:37.500 The repeated picture is not centered on one isolated 00:05:37.500 --> 00:05:41.709 pastor carrying spiritual oversight alone. It 00:05:41.709 --> 00:05:44.209 is multiple qualified shepherds sharing responsibility 00:05:44.209 --> 00:05:47.810 under Christ. That does not mean every elder 00:05:47.810 --> 00:05:51.410 has exactly the same role. One may preach more. 00:05:51.610 --> 00:05:54.509 One may carry more public responsibility. One 00:05:54.509 --> 00:05:58.370 may work vocationally for the church while another 00:05:58.370 --> 00:06:01.970 earns his living somewhere else. But they are 00:06:01.970 --> 00:06:05.470 shepherds together. The preaching pastor is not 00:06:05.470 --> 00:06:08.310 the chief shepherd. And the other elders are 00:06:08.310 --> 00:06:11.600 not merely his advisory panel. They have responsibility 00:06:11.600 --> 00:06:15.199 for the flock too, which means they need to be 00:06:15.199 --> 00:06:18.660 able to say, brother, you're wrong. You're getting 00:06:18.660 --> 00:06:22.699 harsh. You're drifting doctrinally. You are neglecting 00:06:22.699 --> 00:06:26.019 your family. You are caring too much. You are 00:06:26.019 --> 00:06:29.800 not listening. You need to repent. Meaningful 00:06:29.800 --> 00:06:33.339 plurality means meaningful accountability. If 00:06:33.339 --> 00:06:35.579 the other elders cannot meaningfully correct 00:06:35.579 --> 00:06:40.209 one pastor, then whatever titles are On organizational 00:06:40.209 --> 00:06:43.629 charts, biblical plurality is not functioning 00:06:43.629 --> 00:06:48.110 the way it should. And Acts 20 takes this even 00:06:48.110 --> 00:07:04.529 deeper. Paul tells those elders, Notice where 00:07:04.529 --> 00:07:08.620 he starts. Yourselves. Then the flock. Before 00:07:08.620 --> 00:07:11.300 these men watch everybody else, they're told 00:07:11.300 --> 00:07:13.980 to watch themselves. Their doctrine, character, 00:07:14.319 --> 00:07:17.759 motives, pride, fear, temptation to please people, 00:07:18.000 --> 00:07:20.860 their desire to control, their need to protect 00:07:20.860 --> 00:07:24.300 their own reputation. A man does not graduate 00:07:24.300 --> 00:07:26.459 out of needing shepherding because he becomes 00:07:26.459 --> 00:07:29.459 a shepherd. A shepherd who watches everybody 00:07:29.459 --> 00:07:33.100 else but never watches his own soul is already 00:07:33.100 --> 00:07:36.100 ignoring part of the command. And sometimes, 00:07:36.879 --> 00:07:40.079 One of the ways he watches himself is by having 00:07:40.079 --> 00:07:44.019 other godly men close enough to see what he cannot 00:07:44.019 --> 00:07:48.540 see. Then we get to 1 Timothy 5. And this may 00:07:48.540 --> 00:07:50.680 be one of the clearest passages for balancing 00:07:50.680 --> 00:07:53.939 pastoral protection and pastoral accountability. 00:07:55.180 --> 00:07:57.480 Don't receive an accusation against an elder 00:07:57.480 --> 00:08:00.160 except at the word of two or three witnesses. 00:08:00.920 --> 00:08:05.740 Those who sin reprove in the sight of all. that 00:08:05.740 --> 00:08:09.800 the rest also may be in fear. I command you in 00:08:09.800 --> 00:08:13.620 the sight of God and the Lord Jesus Christ and 00:08:13.620 --> 00:08:17.019 the chosen angels that you observe these things 00:08:17.019 --> 00:08:20.199 without prejudice, doing nothing by partiality. 00:08:21.180 --> 00:08:24.399 That is real protection. An accusation is not 00:08:24.399 --> 00:08:27.879 proof. A rumor is not evidence. A disagreement 00:08:27.879 --> 00:08:31.420 is not misconduct. And somebody told me somebody 00:08:31.420 --> 00:08:33.340 heard something is not biblical accountability. 00:08:34.409 --> 00:08:36.850 That is gossip with a church parking sticker. 00:08:37.590 --> 00:08:40.450 Pastors should not live under constant suspicion. 00:08:40.909 --> 00:08:43.570 Their families should not have to endure careless 00:08:43.570 --> 00:08:46.190 accusations because somebody is angry about a 00:08:46.190 --> 00:08:49.690 decision or disliked a sermon. We should take 00:08:49.690 --> 00:08:53.389 accusations against elders seriously. But Paul 00:08:53.389 --> 00:08:57.070 does not stop there. He moves immediately from 00:08:57.070 --> 00:08:59.509 protecting elders against unsupported accusations 00:09:04.059 --> 00:09:07.159 is established, and he commands that the process 00:09:07.159 --> 00:09:11.580 be handled without prejudice or partiality. Same 00:09:11.580 --> 00:09:15.980 passage, same leaders, same Bible. Scripture 00:09:15.980 --> 00:09:19.899 protects elders from reckless accusation, and 00:09:19.899 --> 00:09:22.259 scripture refuses to protect elders from real 00:09:22.259 --> 00:09:26.879 sin. Pastors are not easy targets, and pastors 00:09:26.879 --> 00:09:30.460 are not untouchable. Both truths belong together. 00:09:31.799 --> 00:09:35.019 Now, Plural elders do not make the rest of the 00:09:35.019 --> 00:09:37.899 church passive. The New Testament gives the gathered 00:09:37.899 --> 00:09:42.659 body real responsibility. Members discern. Members 00:09:42.659 --> 00:09:45.139 pursue holiness. Members participate in discipline. 00:09:45.460 --> 00:09:48.679 Members recognize leaders. Members guard truth. 00:09:48.980 --> 00:09:52.059 Members hold one another accountable. So I do 00:09:52.059 --> 00:09:56.159 not think the Bible's answer is simply replace 00:09:56.159 --> 00:09:59.159 the deacon board with an elder board and now 00:09:59.159 --> 00:10:02.559 everything is fixed. Five unhealthy men can sit 00:10:02.559 --> 00:10:05.580 around a table just as easily as one unhealthy 00:10:05.580 --> 00:10:10.460 man can sit behind a desk. Plurality by itself 00:10:10.460 --> 00:10:13.639 is not the final authority. The congregation 00:10:13.639 --> 00:10:16.919 is not the final authority. The pastor is not 00:10:16.919 --> 00:10:19.039 the final authority. The deacons are not the 00:10:19.039 --> 00:10:20.980 final authority. A denomination is not the final 00:10:20.980 --> 00:10:23.500 authority. Christ is the head of his church. 00:10:24.659 --> 00:10:27.399 And Christ rules his church through his word. 00:10:27.970 --> 00:10:30.549 Every structure has to remain underneath that. 00:10:31.669 --> 00:10:34.690 So here is a question every church ought to be 00:10:34.690 --> 00:10:37.389 able to answer clearly. If a pastor seriously 00:10:37.389 --> 00:10:40.889 departs from Scripture, who can tell him? Who 00:10:40.889 --> 00:10:45.070 can correct him? Who can stop him? And are those 00:10:45.070 --> 00:10:47.669 people actually biblically qualified to do so? 00:10:48.190 --> 00:10:52.350 Not. Who can complain about him? There will never 00:10:52.350 --> 00:10:54.470 be a shortage of applicants for that position. 00:10:54.669 --> 00:10:57.629 I mean... Who actually shares spiritual responsibility 00:10:57.629 --> 00:11:00.509 closely enough to confront him with scripture 00:11:00.509 --> 00:11:05.049 and say, brother, this cannot continue. If every 00:11:05.049 --> 00:11:07.250 path of accountability eventually circles back 00:11:07.250 --> 00:11:10.049 to the same man being confronted, you probably 00:11:10.049 --> 00:11:14.230 do not have much accountability. And if the people 00:11:14.230 --> 00:11:16.789 with the power to remove him are financially 00:11:16.789 --> 00:11:20.389 influential but spiritually unqualified, we still 00:11:20.389 --> 00:11:24.070 have a problem. The goal is not merely an accountability 00:11:24.070 --> 00:11:27.299 structure. The goal is biblically accountable 00:11:27.299 --> 00:11:35.299 shepherds under Christ. James 3 .1 says, Hebrews 00:11:35.299 --> 00:11:57.580 13 .17 says, And 1 Peter 5 .4 says, When the 00:11:57.580 --> 00:11:59.779 chief shepherd is revealed, you will receive 00:11:59.779 --> 00:12:03.120 the crown of glory that does not fade away. That 00:12:03.120 --> 00:12:06.039 should make every pastor humble. Because ultimately, 00:12:06.320 --> 00:12:10.000 they are not his people. This is not his church. 00:12:10.840 --> 00:12:14.820 He did not purchase the flock. Christ did. And 00:12:14.820 --> 00:12:17.820 one day the shepherd will answer to the one whose 00:12:17.820 --> 00:12:21.940 sheep they are. That's a very different posture 00:12:21.940 --> 00:12:24.679 from this is my ministry. or these are my people, 00:12:24.740 --> 00:12:27.919 or nobody has the right to question me. Brother, 00:12:28.080 --> 00:12:31.399 if you are a shepherd, somebody absolutely has 00:12:31.399 --> 00:12:34.039 the right to question you. The chief shepherd 00:12:34.039 --> 00:12:38.799 does, and his word does. And I want to end this 00:12:38.799 --> 00:12:42.259 with grace. A pastor who can be corrected is 00:12:42.259 --> 00:12:46.000 not a weak pastor. A pastor who can repent is 00:12:46.000 --> 00:12:48.980 not a failed pastor. A pastor who listens to 00:12:48.980 --> 00:12:51.500 other qualified shepherds is not surrendering 00:12:51.500 --> 00:12:54.620 his leadership. He is remembering that he is 00:12:54.620 --> 00:12:58.340 still a sheep too. Sometimes, one of the greatest 00:12:58.340 --> 00:13:01.919 gifts God can give a pastor is another brother 00:13:01.919 --> 00:13:05.419 who loves him enough to say, Slow down. Listen. 00:13:06.080 --> 00:13:09.240 You're in the wrong. You need help. You need 00:13:09.240 --> 00:13:13.120 to rest. You need to repent. Pastors need people 00:13:13.120 --> 00:13:16.120 who encourage them. People who pray for them. 00:13:16.179 --> 00:13:18.419 People who defend them from reckless accusations. 00:13:19.039 --> 00:13:21.419 And people who love them enough to tell them 00:13:21.419 --> 00:13:25.440 the truth. Those things are not enemies. They 00:13:25.440 --> 00:13:29.100 belong together. So who shepherds the shepherds? 00:13:29.720 --> 00:13:33.720 Ultimately, the chief shepherd does. And one 00:13:33.720 --> 00:13:35.399 of the ways he does that is through his word, 00:13:35.539 --> 00:13:38.399 through other qualified shepherds, through honest 00:13:38.399 --> 00:13:41.220 accountability, and through a congregation that 00:13:41.220 --> 00:13:44.240 loves its leaders enough to neither attack them 00:13:44.240 --> 00:13:49.000 carelessly nor protect them blindly. The safest 00:13:49.000 --> 00:13:51.460 shepherd is not the man nobody can question. 00:13:52.439 --> 00:13:55.679 It's the man who knows he is still a sheep under 00:13:55.679 --> 00:13:58.500 the chief shepherd. And maybe that brings us 00:13:58.500 --> 00:14:02.120 back to the question we've been asking throughout 00:14:02.120 --> 00:14:07.179 this whole pot. Not simply, is this how the Catholics 00:14:07.179 --> 00:14:09.460 do it, how the Methodists do it, how the Presbyterians 00:14:09.460 --> 00:14:13.460 do it, or the Assemblies do it? Or is this how 00:14:13.460 --> 00:14:15.320 the Baptists have been doing it since Sister 00:14:15.320 --> 00:14:17.179 Margaret's grandparents poured the concrete? 00:14:18.000 --> 00:14:21.450 The question is, Does what we are doing actually 00:14:21.450 --> 00:14:25.509 reflect the church's scripture describes? Because 00:14:25.509 --> 00:14:27.990 familiar does not automatically mean biblical. 00:14:28.929 --> 00:14:30.909 Thank you for joining me for this extra shot 00:14:30.909 --> 00:14:34.710 of Grace in the Grind. Take time to like the 00:14:34.710 --> 00:14:37.289 show, subscribe, and leave a review if you can. 00:14:37.389 --> 00:14:39.450 And come back and join us for the next full cup 00:14:39.450 --> 00:14:41.490 of Grace in the Grind, where we're going to talk 00:14:41.490 --> 00:14:44.549 about grace and restorative love.