WEBVTT 00:00:04.515 --> 00:00:09.495 Today on Blooming Curious, we have the very special Sally Haughey She's the 00:00:09.495 --> 00:00:16.184 founder and CEO of fairy dust teaching now called Wunderled and a passionate 00:00:16.184 --> 00:00:22.605 advocate for early years educators embracing a play-based philosophy with 00:00:22.635 --> 00:00:25.365 a teaching journey that began in 1996. 00:00:25.365 --> 00:00:29.025 Sally draws inspiration from many approaches like Waldorf 00:00:29.025 --> 00:00:31.380 and Reggio Emilia In two. 00:00:31.440 --> 00:00:37.200 In 2010, she established fairy dust teaching, and today it has grown into 00:00:37.200 --> 00:00:46.170 a vibrant global community of over 240,000 educators across 120 countries. 00:00:46.680 --> 00:00:52.080 Sally's strong dedication lies in empowering educators to unlock 00:00:52.290 --> 00:00:57.360 the transformative power of play, nurturing children's imagination. 00:00:57.540 --> 00:00:58.949 And curiosity. 00:00:59.490 --> 00:01:04.860 Welcome to Blooming Curious Sally, it is wonderful to have you here today sharing 00:01:04.890 --> 00:01:08.010 your amazing passion with all of us. 00:01:09.450 --> 00:01:11.310 Ha, I am so excited. 00:01:11.460 --> 00:01:13.170 So thank you for having me. 00:01:13.470 --> 00:01:15.570 Oh, I'm so excited for having you. 00:01:16.020 --> 00:01:20.250 Listen, I want you to share with everybody, we've just had a chat off 00:01:20.610 --> 00:01:22.860 record, but I want you to share with them. 00:01:23.685 --> 00:01:28.335 What inspired you to start fairy Dust teaching and how 00:01:28.335 --> 00:01:30.945 did it evolve into Wunderled 00:01:32.295 --> 00:01:40.995 Yeah, so I started fairy dust teaching really as a. Passionate stand for 00:01:40.995 --> 00:01:48.285 children globally out of my own struggles when I was a child and then my son 00:01:48.285 --> 00:01:54.825 had similar struggles and I knew that the, as Seth Godin calls, the factory 00:01:54.825 --> 00:01:58.005 model of education wasn't working. 00:01:58.185 --> 00:01:58.725 And in fact. 00:01:59.460 --> 00:02:04.199 In terms of building of our own identities, it was damaging. 00:02:04.679 --> 00:02:11.160 So, you know, I began to just do a little bit online and I was blown away. 00:02:11.160 --> 00:02:15.900 I have to tell you, I, I started like six different blogs just trying to find my 00:02:15.900 --> 00:02:22.260 way, and, uh, finally hit with Fairy dust teaching and I had been Waldorf trained, 00:02:22.260 --> 00:02:24.450 so I was sharing Waldorf activities. 00:02:24.450 --> 00:02:26.010 I kind of was still. 00:02:26.519 --> 00:02:28.890 Not quite sure how to share my passion. 00:02:28.890 --> 00:02:31.650 So it came through projects and things like that. 00:02:32.070 --> 00:02:37.530 But what kind of took my breath away is the first time I made an offering 00:02:37.950 --> 00:02:39.840 about how to be with children. 00:02:40.470 --> 00:02:45.060 And because it was fairy dust, I called it, um, a dash of wonder 00:02:45.060 --> 00:02:49.470 as I think is what I called it, is how many people signed up. 00:02:50.190 --> 00:02:53.940 And from there it just became like. 00:02:54.285 --> 00:02:58.665 It was like throwing seeds on the ground that began to blossom. 00:02:59.114 --> 00:03:03.644 So it was just going along beautifully and I had had several 00:03:03.644 --> 00:03:05.475 iterations of the websites. 00:03:05.760 --> 00:03:09.390 Of fairy Dust I was in the process of, it was so funny, 00:03:09.390 --> 00:03:11.310 like whatever mood hits, right? 00:03:11.310 --> 00:03:17.070 Like I'm, oh, it's been so fairy like maybe I should go MoMA, you 00:03:17.070 --> 00:03:19.500 know, contemporary artist look. 00:03:19.500 --> 00:03:22.980 'cause I am an artist by, you know, went to college for art. 00:03:23.460 --> 00:03:30.600 Um, and I was in the middle of that in Covid trying to redesign my website 00:03:30.990 --> 00:03:39.660 and I had a dream And In the dream, someone hands me a magazine and it 00:03:39.660 --> 00:03:45.720 says, wonder Led and it's the most beautiful magazine I get teary eyed. 00:03:45.720 --> 00:03:50.339 It was like so vivid I could see it like it was an actual lived 00:03:50.339 --> 00:03:57.839 experience in my dream and I woke up and I knew I had to create that. 00:03:58.890 --> 00:03:59.340 It was. 00:03:59.430 --> 00:04:02.760 And I think sometimes it's like Fairy Dust teaching. 00:04:02.760 --> 00:04:05.580 I'm not really sure what will happen with that site. 00:04:05.580 --> 00:04:06.720 I keep it there. 00:04:06.990 --> 00:04:10.560 You know, it's like a child. 00:04:10.680 --> 00:04:16.890 I don't wanna let go of it, but I'm so excited about Wunderled and, and. 00:04:17.325 --> 00:04:19.034 The future it holds. 00:04:19.034 --> 00:04:19.484 Yeah. 00:04:20.084 --> 00:04:20.325 Yeah. 00:04:20.325 --> 00:04:24.344 So you didn't just decide just to change the name like I have, you just 00:04:24.344 --> 00:04:27.945 changed the name, kept the site, and let grow and evolve, but just changed 00:04:27.945 --> 00:04:30.195 the name you decided to keep both. 00:04:31.244 --> 00:04:31.664 Yeah. 00:04:32.025 --> 00:04:32.955 It's a lot of work. 00:04:34.184 --> 00:04:35.054 It is. 00:04:35.054 --> 00:04:38.955 But you know, there's, it's, they're living, you know, this is the 00:04:38.955 --> 00:04:40.724 part of being a conscious mm-hmm. 00:04:41.265 --> 00:04:44.955 Entrepreneur is that there actually works of. 00:04:45.570 --> 00:04:46.560 Art for me. 00:04:46.560 --> 00:04:53.219 They're actually, yeah, an expression of my heart, and I can't kill that. 00:04:53.520 --> 00:04:53.849 You know? 00:04:53.849 --> 00:04:56.729 I can't take it away and say it wasn't there. 00:04:56.729 --> 00:05:00.960 I need to, like, I know one day I'll wake up from another dream. 00:05:01.590 --> 00:05:06.750 I know something, or someone will say something, you know, because again, 00:05:06.750 --> 00:05:08.969 I'm a creative first and foremost. 00:05:08.969 --> 00:05:11.099 I paint, I draw, I write. 00:05:11.520 --> 00:05:18.990 And I know that work of art will have its purpose, but it's a living thing to me. 00:05:19.860 --> 00:05:21.485 'cause it still serves people. 00:05:22.085 --> 00:05:22.205 I. 00:05:22.305 --> 00:05:27.165 Exactly, and it is beautiful and I'm, I dabble all around there very often 00:05:27.165 --> 00:05:29.265 and it is just such a beautiful place. 00:05:29.805 --> 00:05:32.145 So absolutely keep them both, Sally. 00:05:32.145 --> 00:05:35.175 Just keep them both until why not You have another dream? 00:05:35.175 --> 00:05:35.445 Another dream. 00:05:36.135 --> 00:05:36.675 Exactly. 00:05:38.015 --> 00:05:44.255 Tell me what's the core philosophy behind Wunderled and how it supports curiosity 00:05:44.255 --> 00:05:48.455 driven and wonder based teaching? 00:05:48.575 --> 00:05:51.425 'cause I know that that's your passion, but what's, what's that 00:05:51.425 --> 00:05:53.705 core that that drives Wunderled 00:05:54.770 --> 00:05:58.895 I would, you know, I, I love that question because I think this is 00:05:58.895 --> 00:06:09.360 really important that for me, children are born with this innate desire. 00:06:10.380 --> 00:06:16.110 And actually it's a drive to be curious and to wonder and to have awe. 00:06:16.410 --> 00:06:22.020 It, it actually, in my opinion, drives development. 00:06:22.470 --> 00:06:26.490 I think it's, it's been inside of us to have us. 00:06:26.640 --> 00:06:30.870 It's, you know, like whatever it is that's driving the flower to bloom, 00:06:31.140 --> 00:06:34.260 curiosity is driving the child to stand. 00:06:34.490 --> 00:06:40.070 Driving the child to speak, driving the child to run, driving the child 00:06:40.070 --> 00:06:44.390 to, you know, it's like, it's the drive that gives us everything. 00:06:44.600 --> 00:06:46.430 It's what drives me. 00:06:46.940 --> 00:06:47.330 Absolutely. 00:06:47.330 --> 00:06:49.790 You know, it's the drive behind passion. 00:06:49.790 --> 00:06:51.860 It's the drive behind innovation. 00:06:51.860 --> 00:06:57.770 It's the drive behind anything we do as humans that takes it to the next level. 00:06:57.770 --> 00:06:59.420 That's evolutionary. 00:07:00.200 --> 00:07:05.505 You know, we need curiosity to meet the needs of our our planet. 00:07:06.555 --> 00:07:14.925 So I think what I stand for is to stop killing it in young children, to stop 00:07:14.925 --> 00:07:18.555 denying the drive and instead support it. 00:07:18.975 --> 00:07:21.585 We have classrooms globally. 00:07:22.065 --> 00:07:28.335 There are absolutely stifling the very thing children need most, and 00:07:28.425 --> 00:07:31.065 I think it's because it's easier. 00:07:32.385 --> 00:07:37.905 To control and dominate and tell children, you know, it's easier 00:07:38.205 --> 00:07:40.215 for the machine to process them. 00:07:40.995 --> 00:07:47.985 You know, it takes something to be a present, fully alive educator in 00:07:47.985 --> 00:07:50.805 the classroom that's not checked out. 00:07:53.055 --> 00:07:56.750 I've just suddenly had this wave of sadness wash over me 00:07:56.930 --> 00:07:58.845 as you spoken those words. 00:08:00.480 --> 00:08:01.260 How do you, 00:08:03.360 --> 00:08:08.760 so how did you, I mean, you've obviously had these, your passion and your drive 00:08:09.060 --> 00:08:15.300 like myself is for curiosity and both of us feel so strongly that that drive. 00:08:16.140 --> 00:08:17.700 That's really been driven out. 00:08:17.970 --> 00:08:18.750 Absolutely. 00:08:18.750 --> 00:08:21.720 We are fighting to keep that drive alive because without 00:08:21.720 --> 00:08:23.160 curiosity, we have nothing. 00:08:23.160 --> 00:08:26.370 'cause curiosity is the foundation of learning, you know? 00:08:26.430 --> 00:08:26.520 Mm-hmm. 00:08:27.630 --> 00:08:30.300 Just yesterday, I was thinking to myself. 00:08:31.875 --> 00:08:34.935 And we were talking about this earlier, children now have 00:08:34.935 --> 00:08:36.585 this access to technology. 00:08:37.034 --> 00:08:41.414 But the great minds today, the great creators, the great problem 00:08:41.414 --> 00:08:46.365 solvers today did not have technology when they were growing up. 00:08:47.325 --> 00:08:50.685 They were readers and um. 00:08:51.615 --> 00:08:58.604 Creators and problem solvers and probably pushed boundaries and read ferociously 00:08:58.604 --> 00:09:04.305 and worked with their hands and explored and tried out their little thoughts and 00:09:04.305 --> 00:09:07.694 ideas, but they did not have technology. 00:09:08.505 --> 00:09:12.915 They were driven by play an exploration in the real world. 00:09:14.010 --> 00:09:20.460 And so I want to ask you is how did this play led learning 00:09:20.880 --> 00:09:23.760 become your cornerstone approach? 00:09:23.760 --> 00:09:29.300 Was it just this this desirable, this undying fire in you that 00:09:29.300 --> 00:09:31.190 you wanted this for children? 00:09:31.700 --> 00:09:35.930 What made you decide, this is it, this is what I'm going to follow? 00:09:37.335 --> 00:09:43.610 I think, you know, I had a lot of different experiences as an educator. 00:09:43.610 --> 00:09:50.329 Everything from private education to a government funded, you know, 00:09:50.420 --> 00:09:54.170 establishment to public school. 00:09:54.410 --> 00:09:57.949 And when I was in kindergarten, you know, they hired me in 00:09:57.949 --> 00:09:59.300 as a kindergarten teacher. 00:09:59.599 --> 00:10:04.550 I was hired to teach the children to read and all those academic things. 00:10:04.550 --> 00:10:05.000 Right. 00:10:05.300 --> 00:10:07.609 And I was curious, I had been. 00:10:08.060 --> 00:10:09.619 Primarily play-based. 00:10:09.619 --> 00:10:11.119 I had a curiosity. 00:10:11.359 --> 00:10:14.839 What would it be like to be in a highly academic setting. 00:10:15.410 --> 00:10:20.569 The team that I went on to with were very much academic, but 00:10:20.569 --> 00:10:22.550 beautiful human beings, you know? 00:10:22.550 --> 00:10:26.689 So I walked into a climate of love, which is really important. 00:10:26.900 --> 00:10:30.650 Who, you know, when they saw me doing all of my things that were 00:10:30.650 --> 00:10:33.739 different than what they were doing, they'd say, you're so cute, you know? 00:10:35.569 --> 00:10:38.839 They were accepting and I, you know, forever grateful. 00:10:39.169 --> 00:10:46.039 Um, but what I saw when I implemented some of the academic things was 00:10:46.039 --> 00:10:52.549 the light go out in the children's eyes and I began to see, you know, 00:10:54.259 --> 00:10:58.189 what is this at five years old? 00:10:58.925 --> 00:11:03.635 There's this shutting down another child was this one little boy 00:11:03.635 --> 00:11:08.194 still, just again, those lived moments that change you internally. 00:11:08.465 --> 00:11:13.324 This little boy was in my first kindergarten class and he had been in 00:11:13.324 --> 00:11:18.545 foster homes and had been through trauma. 00:11:20.084 --> 00:11:23.314 And we were in, you know, it was my first year, so I was 00:11:23.404 --> 00:11:25.834 taking them through a process. 00:11:26.224 --> 00:11:29.045 They were wanting us to do handwriting. 00:11:29.045 --> 00:11:34.055 So instead I was doing a guided drawing, you know, I just felt like handwriting 00:11:34.055 --> 00:11:36.454 was too soon, too much, too quick. 00:11:36.454 --> 00:11:37.144 What can I do? 00:11:37.144 --> 00:11:40.624 I'd always look, what can I do that fulfills the requirement, but 00:11:40.624 --> 00:11:45.034 isn't quite so inappropriate, you know, like always balancing that. 00:11:46.069 --> 00:11:49.760 Even that, you know, 'cause I would say we're all, everyone's 00:11:49.760 --> 00:11:51.230 drawing is gonna be different. 00:11:51.260 --> 00:11:54.920 It's meant to be different and we don't wanna look like the others. 00:11:54.980 --> 00:11:59.780 You know, like really trying to set them up and he broke down sobbing, 00:12:00.380 --> 00:12:03.439 saying, I can't, I can't do this. 00:12:04.534 --> 00:12:08.675 I was like, why does he have to do it? 00:12:09.154 --> 00:12:16.264 What is it about being five that he cannot just follow his own curiosities, 00:12:16.264 --> 00:12:18.425 his own interest at this point? 00:12:18.874 --> 00:12:27.504 And I began to really work at bringing in open play because I think the 00:12:27.504 --> 00:12:30.414 hard pill to swallow as an educator, 00:12:31.704 --> 00:12:35.994 is that this is not just a child saying I can't do it. 00:12:36.444 --> 00:12:39.984 This is the formation of his identity as a learner. 00:12:43.135 --> 00:12:46.004 This is his self-concept. 00:12:47.084 --> 00:12:51.464 This is who he sees in him himself as. 00:12:53.309 --> 00:12:55.799 At this age, so tender. 00:12:55.859 --> 00:13:00.569 Shouldn't he be in an environment where what he experiences is the 00:13:00.569 --> 00:13:07.799 joy of learning, but instead the system even adapted and accommodated. 00:13:10.499 --> 00:13:13.020 It's still being, you have to do what I'm doing. 00:13:16.829 --> 00:13:18.959 You're saying such powerful things. 00:13:18.959 --> 00:13:20.219 My goodness. 00:13:20.399 --> 00:13:22.589 And so 00:13:24.629 --> 00:13:29.489 I feel for schools and educators because there are people like you and 00:13:29.489 --> 00:13:32.579 I who, who see things this way, right? 00:13:33.484 --> 00:13:33.904 Mm-hmm. 00:13:33.984 --> 00:13:37.889 And perhaps there, those of us that aren't scared to take on that challenge, 00:13:38.069 --> 00:13:44.224 but we're still, and educators are still bound by curriculum demands. 00:13:45.644 --> 00:13:46.004 Right. 00:13:46.034 --> 00:13:46.094 Yeah. 00:13:46.094 --> 00:13:49.364 They're still bound by curriculum demands and not everybody perhaps 00:13:49.694 --> 00:13:54.374 has, or is fortunate enough, like us to just say, okay, we're starting our 00:13:54.404 --> 00:13:59.824 own website and we're going to do our own thing for educators and children. 00:14:00.724 --> 00:14:07.954 So how can educators then in the classroom that don't have the choice perhaps. 00:14:07.969 --> 00:14:08.059 Hmm. 00:14:09.319 --> 00:14:14.089 Of leaving, how are they gonna balance this play, lead teaching 00:14:14.089 --> 00:14:16.069 with curriculum demands? 00:14:16.859 --> 00:14:17.969 What do we say to them? 00:14:18.660 --> 00:14:19.020 Well, when, yeah. 00:14:19.020 --> 00:14:25.349 So I'm gonna say, which I never thought I'd say, but Covid changed my perspective. 00:14:25.680 --> 00:14:30.540 Like Covid was like a tuning for, to me that went, boom. 00:14:30.780 --> 00:14:34.260 You know what, what matters most is relationship. 00:14:34.770 --> 00:14:36.599 So I think no matter what. 00:14:37.469 --> 00:14:44.430 Play-based, traditional based, you know, Montessori, academic, Reggio, 00:14:44.430 --> 00:14:52.229 whoever you are, the the tuning fork is saying you've got to be related 00:14:52.229 --> 00:14:54.660 to the individual in front of you. 00:14:55.469 --> 00:15:01.880 You have to be tuned in, you have to start there. 00:15:02.730 --> 00:15:07.350 Because Without being in relationship with the child, how 00:15:07.350 --> 00:15:09.360 can you possibly support them? 00:15:09.540 --> 00:15:13.770 So I'm really almost relationship based first. 00:15:14.130 --> 00:15:15.569 Play based second. 00:15:16.469 --> 00:15:16.740 Yeah. 00:15:17.910 --> 00:15:23.219 And I think the, the, what we're seeing in the classroom demands this. 00:15:23.370 --> 00:15:24.959 I think we have to look at their needs. 00:15:24.959 --> 00:15:28.469 If a child is breaking down, not self-regulating. 00:15:29.715 --> 00:15:32.625 Then we have to take on being curious. 00:15:33.465 --> 00:15:37.395 The educator's, the first curious one in the room, right? 00:15:37.965 --> 00:15:46.590 Our curiosity allows us to, instead of react, reflect I. You know, 00:15:46.740 --> 00:15:48.810 what can I do to help this child? 00:15:48.810 --> 00:15:53.580 I mean, I know classrooms around the world right now are like teachers 00:15:53.580 --> 00:15:58.020 who've been in the room for 30 years are saying it's never been like this. 00:15:58.025 --> 00:15:58.415 Be like this. 00:15:58.439 --> 00:15:59.010 Never. 00:15:59.040 --> 00:15:59.880 Absolutely. 00:16:00.540 --> 00:16:04.439 And so I think it's calling for us to recalibrate. 00:16:04.890 --> 00:16:09.840 You know, I don't wanna, I don't wanna sit on my ideals in the 00:16:09.840 --> 00:16:11.910 face of the call of the children. 00:16:12.764 --> 00:16:15.915 I am here in service of the children, period, 00:16:18.464 --> 00:16:20.535 and I'm just thinking now as well. 00:16:21.734 --> 00:16:27.254 Of course you're absolutely 100% correct with this, but I'm also now thinking, 00:16:27.374 --> 00:16:29.145 do you know what else is increased? 00:16:29.564 --> 00:16:34.484 Instead of us becoming perhaps curious and asking those exact questions. 00:16:35.550 --> 00:16:39.630 If a kid isn't doing what the rest are doing, it's now a 00:16:39.630 --> 00:16:43.589 question of can you please make an appointment with a pediatrician? 00:16:44.760 --> 00:16:44.790 Mm, 00:16:47.010 --> 00:16:47.339 yep. 00:16:49.230 --> 00:16:55.280 And I understand being in a classroom, that it is really, really difficult. 00:16:55.280 --> 00:16:56.540 Now things have changed. 00:16:56.569 --> 00:17:01.129 Things have changed and it's really difficult to be in a classroom of 30 kids 00:17:01.970 --> 00:17:09.869 and having so many different needs and so much demand being placed on teachers 00:17:11.919 --> 00:17:14.359 and having, you know, so many 00:17:15.109 --> 00:17:20.239 different education plans even to meet the needs of different children and different 00:17:20.239 --> 00:17:25.550 children's needs that I think for teachers now, they're really just trying to get 00:17:25.550 --> 00:17:29.300 through the day right, in one piece. 00:17:30.110 --> 00:17:35.689 Um, and so how do we really get to this place where we can encourage 00:17:35.689 --> 00:17:43.610 teachers to trust themselves and trust children's natural curiosity. 00:17:44.195 --> 00:17:50.675 And allow for unstructured exploration in a classroom, and as we are talking, 00:17:50.675 --> 00:17:59.254 especially early childhood primary, that meets the needs of all children because 00:17:59.675 --> 00:18:03.395 not everybody is ready at the same time. 00:18:03.725 --> 00:18:09.605 Not every child in kindergarten or first grade or second grade is ready for the 00:18:09.605 --> 00:18:12.905 demands that a curriculum expects at that 00:18:13.745 --> 00:18:14.555 year level. 00:18:15.845 --> 00:18:23.254 So how do we encourage them to teachers to say, follow the child when they are still 00:18:23.254 --> 00:18:29.045 so much under the control of education departments, districts, um, in the 00:18:29.045 --> 00:18:32.105 states, for example, the administrators. 00:18:32.645 --> 00:18:34.655 It's a hard call to make, isn't it? 00:18:35.524 --> 00:18:35.915 It is. 00:18:35.915 --> 00:18:41.675 And I do think our own wellbeing is crucial and that 00:18:41.725 --> 00:18:44.935 you have to find what's gonna work for you. 00:18:44.935 --> 00:18:49.525 So when I taught first grade, I only did one year, my last year of teaching, 00:18:49.765 --> 00:18:51.595 it was a very challenging year. 00:18:52.269 --> 00:18:57.999 And I had, after lunch, I agreed, I got the principal to agree. 00:18:58.149 --> 00:18:59.919 You know, 'cause you have to negotiate these things. 00:18:59.919 --> 00:19:00.189 Absolutely. 00:19:00.189 --> 00:19:04.659 You don't want administration walking in the room, you know, and go, wait a minute, 00:19:05.050 --> 00:19:08.709 um, to agree to give me unstructured play. 00:19:08.889 --> 00:19:14.050 And during that time I would have my one-on-one with children, you know? 00:19:14.050 --> 00:19:17.019 So I gave a really, I think sometimes we have to pull out 00:19:17.019 --> 00:19:19.389 really good arguments and. 00:19:19.794 --> 00:19:24.895 That was a really good argument that she could completely have buy-in with. 00:19:25.495 --> 00:19:30.294 The other thing that I found really important in my own wellbeing 00:19:30.564 --> 00:19:34.824 is to keep a work home boundary. 00:19:35.725 --> 00:19:35.905 Yes. 00:19:35.905 --> 00:19:39.054 And when I didn't do that, I paid for it greatly. 00:19:39.895 --> 00:19:41.485 I struggle with that. 00:19:41.485 --> 00:19:44.004 I still struggle with that greatly. 00:19:44.965 --> 00:19:45.595 Um. 00:19:46.525 --> 00:19:49.675 I think we, every individual is different. 00:19:49.675 --> 00:19:54.505 There's no recipe other than, you know, you have to have the oxygen 00:19:54.505 --> 00:19:58.375 mask on first and that you are enough. 00:20:00.475 --> 00:20:03.835 You know that you have to look in the mirror and go, you are enough. 00:20:04.855 --> 00:20:09.325 You are the pilot of the plane. 00:20:10.060 --> 00:20:14.110 You know, you need the oxygen mask, not because you're the hostess. 00:20:14.110 --> 00:20:20.409 Because you are the pilot and that, you know, I, I literally, I, I think 00:20:20.409 --> 00:20:24.039 this is something that we don't talk about enough, so I love that you 00:20:24.039 --> 00:20:28.629 brought this up, is that we have to find our own way of finding the way. 00:20:29.334 --> 00:20:32.274 So, you know, for me, I would get really creative. 00:20:32.274 --> 00:20:38.215 I might draw, um, different ways that I could bring literacy into the classroom. 00:20:38.455 --> 00:20:41.455 That allowed a more open-ended way. 00:20:41.574 --> 00:20:49.854 One thing that I did discover in my time early on, like in 2005, I was a 00:20:49.854 --> 00:20:55.284 bar part of a arts integration movement, and I was sent to Brown University 00:20:55.284 --> 00:20:57.895 and took part in this great pd. 00:20:58.420 --> 00:21:04.990 And what I brought was having discussions with children to make the decisions 00:21:04.990 --> 00:21:07.780 with me about how we would move forward. 00:21:09.430 --> 00:21:14.560 And I think if the children can feel that agency of their 00:21:14.560 --> 00:21:19.390 voice, I would say sometimes in kindergarten, I go, okay, today. 00:21:19.959 --> 00:21:23.830 The district and I explained what the district was and what all the 00:21:23.830 --> 00:21:25.779 children in Oklahoma were doing. 00:21:26.050 --> 00:21:26.139 Mm-hmm. 00:21:26.379 --> 00:21:29.080 This is what we're having, what we're supposed to do today. 00:21:29.350 --> 00:21:31.899 This is my idea, what's yours? 00:21:32.379 --> 00:21:38.080 And by, by the end of the year, they literally were helping to design what 00:21:38.080 --> 00:21:40.269 it is we were gonna do in the classroom. 00:21:41.529 --> 00:21:42.669 They were driving it. 00:21:42.774 --> 00:21:45.100 It is not just with play. 00:21:45.715 --> 00:21:50.575 Play is also about creating play is also about inventing. 00:21:50.815 --> 00:21:52.885 It's also about experimenting. 00:21:52.885 --> 00:21:58.735 It's also, so it's this multifaceted amazing thing that we can bring 00:21:59.514 --> 00:22:02.035 conscious participation in. 00:22:02.665 --> 00:22:03.655 Does it make sense? 00:22:03.715 --> 00:22:05.335 It's like, absolutely. 00:22:06.745 --> 00:22:10.615 And so when we give those children that, I mean the voice, 00:22:10.915 --> 00:22:11.965 and I'll tell you one thing. 00:22:11.965 --> 00:22:13.375 I got a a note. 00:22:13.750 --> 00:22:20.470 Probably two years ago on Facebook from a parent who I'd had in like 2007. 00:22:20.470 --> 00:22:25.840 And she goes, our family, you know, of course the kids are grown, um, you 00:22:25.840 --> 00:22:30.880 know, at the time, uh, senior year I think, or first year of college. 00:22:30.910 --> 00:22:31.000 Mm-hmm. 00:22:31.240 --> 00:22:34.900 And she said, we were in Dallas at a museum, and Sam, 00:22:34.900 --> 00:22:36.790 our son, was looking at art. 00:22:37.615 --> 00:22:41.995 The art museum and giving us this full expression of what 00:22:41.995 --> 00:22:43.795 he saw and what he thought. 00:22:44.035 --> 00:22:48.865 And he was extremely articulate in the classroom and in 00:22:48.865 --> 00:22:50.725 that, what are we gonna do? 00:22:51.325 --> 00:22:55.735 Um, and they looked at each other, the mother and father, and said, 00:22:55.885 --> 00:22:59.155 oh yeah, he had Mrs. Haughey Oh. 00:22:59.155 --> 00:23:04.885 Like the impact of that discussion and that co-creation. 00:23:05.739 --> 00:23:11.139 You know, and he, he went on to Princeton and he is a football player. 00:23:11.499 --> 00:23:12.519 You know, this football 00:23:15.610 --> 00:23:16.239 creative. 00:23:17.019 --> 00:23:18.489 And he's creative loving. 00:23:18.729 --> 00:23:19.719 Football player. 00:23:19.719 --> 00:23:20.290 Football player. 00:23:20.290 --> 00:23:20.679 That's okay. 00:23:21.669 --> 00:23:26.019 But I think this is like, I get really upset because when we talk 00:23:26.019 --> 00:23:30.370 play-based, so many people have the idea of these children running wild. 00:23:30.429 --> 00:23:30.939 Yes. 00:23:31.749 --> 00:23:34.254 You know, like that is, that's. 00:23:34.930 --> 00:23:36.100 Children running wild. 00:23:36.550 --> 00:23:38.390 That's not my idea of Play based. 00:23:38.650 --> 00:23:39.370 Play based. 00:23:39.520 --> 00:23:45.190 When I play, like anyone who thinks that's play hasn't been playing recently. 00:23:46.660 --> 00:23:47.800 Yeah, that's running wild. 00:23:47.830 --> 00:23:50.890 That's being a headless chook as they say here in Australia. 00:23:56.625 --> 00:24:00.310 Sally, do you know what, while you were talking about children having agency. 00:24:01.585 --> 00:24:03.145 Having that bit of choice. 00:24:03.145 --> 00:24:03.565 Right. 00:24:03.565 --> 00:24:09.145 And it immediately made me think of one of the problems we have, and I hear so many 00:24:09.145 --> 00:24:14.245 educators talk about it, and I've been, you know, looking on, uh, Facebook groups 00:24:14.245 --> 00:24:20.425 and in subreddit groups, teachers lament the fact that children are now disengaged. 00:24:20.425 --> 00:24:21.925 So disengaged, right? 00:24:22.375 --> 00:24:24.925 They're very engaged when you put them in front of a computer 00:24:24.925 --> 00:24:27.625 screen, but they're very disengaged. 00:24:28.010 --> 00:24:31.550 When they're sitting in a classroom listening to a teacher speak, and I do 00:24:31.550 --> 00:24:36.590 wonder whether that has something to do with the fact that they have no agency. 00:24:37.129 --> 00:24:44.420 Because if they could have a say in what they're doing, because you can still 00:24:44.420 --> 00:24:49.129 stick to your curriculum, but you can give them a little bit of agency in terms 00:24:49.129 --> 00:24:53.840 of how are you going to produce this, this project, or how are you going to 00:24:53.840 --> 00:24:59.590 show me, you know, your understanding if you're An art lover, you might want 00:24:59.590 --> 00:25:01.570 to create a painting and talk about it. 00:25:01.600 --> 00:25:06.310 Or if you are a fabulous writer, you might want to write a story or 00:25:06.310 --> 00:25:08.885 a drama or even just write a report. 00:25:09.215 --> 00:25:13.685 But to give children some agency where they can express their own 00:25:13.685 --> 00:25:19.774 understanding and learning, but also have a say in how they're going to 00:25:20.375 --> 00:25:25.355 show their learning or even in terms of the topic that they want to explore. 00:25:25.925 --> 00:25:29.675 And you can still be meeting your curriculum outcomes, but 00:25:29.675 --> 00:25:31.235 giving children some agency. 00:25:31.235 --> 00:25:38.275 And I really think that that solves the problem of this lack of attention, 00:25:38.275 --> 00:25:43.735 this disengagement that so many people are talking about in our classrooms. 00:25:43.765 --> 00:25:49.325 And I know that, the, our big inquiry proponents for inquiry, like 00:25:49.325 --> 00:25:54.065 Trevor McKenzie for example, he talks very much about this designing the 00:25:54.065 --> 00:25:55.235 learning together with children. 00:25:55.235 --> 00:25:55.325 This. 00:25:56.209 --> 00:25:57.769 This agentic learning. 00:25:58.279 --> 00:26:03.289 So I think that this is a really powerful, a powerful strategy 00:26:03.289 --> 00:26:04.789 for getting children engaged. 00:26:04.789 --> 00:26:11.569 And yes, I think that many of us have to actually stop a moment and focus 00:26:11.569 --> 00:26:13.639 on the relationships and just observe. 00:26:13.669 --> 00:26:17.899 And I remember being at university and one of the lecturers saying, you know, 00:26:17.899 --> 00:26:20.179 when you start out teaching in that first. 00:26:20.549 --> 00:26:23.549 Your first year, that first term of every year. 00:26:24.120 --> 00:26:27.929 Don't be so in a hurry to start teaching the curriculum. 00:26:28.439 --> 00:26:34.080 Take some time to just observe, get to know the children, build your 00:26:34.080 --> 00:26:38.249 relationships, and have a look at what it is that they love to do 00:26:38.249 --> 00:26:42.059 and how they love to learning so you can tap into what they know. 00:26:42.855 --> 00:26:46.875 But I think that once school starts, you're bang, you're into it, right? 00:26:46.875 --> 00:26:48.915 That curriculum, you've gotta get this done and that done 00:26:48.915 --> 00:26:49.965 and the next thing done. 00:26:51.195 --> 00:26:55.534 But you can do all of those things, but just and breathe first. 00:26:55.534 --> 00:26:56.074 Yeah. 00:26:56.074 --> 00:27:00.814 And I think there's two chemicals we have to remember at play here, 00:27:01.144 --> 00:27:02.915 but I think are really interesting. 00:27:03.544 --> 00:27:05.104 One is. 00:27:06.319 --> 00:27:12.169 I think the reason self-care is, is non-negotiable for any educator listening. 00:27:13.069 --> 00:27:13.339 Absolutely. 00:27:13.339 --> 00:27:17.629 Like if you have to walk out of the room and go home, at the end of the day you 00:27:17.629 --> 00:27:21.619 don't have time, then walk out of the room and go home at the end of the day. 00:27:21.889 --> 00:27:32.629 Because we know on a neuroscience level who you are as a, your state of being. 00:27:34.489 --> 00:27:39.109 Sets the climate through mirror neurons of the classroom. 00:27:39.259 --> 00:27:40.999 You're enthusiastic. 00:27:41.239 --> 00:27:42.949 The children are enthusiastic. 00:27:43.099 --> 00:27:43.459 Absolutely. 00:27:43.459 --> 00:27:46.459 You're dragged out, the children are dragged out. 00:27:46.819 --> 00:27:51.919 You're, you know, like our state, you know, just be like, um, again, 00:27:51.949 --> 00:27:56.269 a pilot on a plane all grumpy and yelling is gonna get us all upset. 00:27:57.469 --> 00:28:04.029 You know, I've been on planes where the pilot was like, just amazingly 00:28:04.029 --> 00:28:07.869 present, talking, laughing, giggling with us as we got onto the plane. 00:28:07.869 --> 00:28:12.039 Like it could have had horrid turbulence and I would've 00:28:12.039 --> 00:28:14.529 been chill because of who was. 00:28:14.739 --> 00:28:17.469 And in the front I knew I, I knew he was with me. 00:28:18.894 --> 00:28:18.985 Yes. 00:28:18.985 --> 00:28:22.704 And then the other brain science piece I wanna bring in is 00:28:22.704 --> 00:28:25.644 engagement is a dopamine hit. 00:28:26.860 --> 00:28:30.159 And so, you know, I think about myself. 00:28:30.159 --> 00:28:35.289 Like there's things John's interested in, and there is no dopamine happening 00:28:35.289 --> 00:28:39.639 in me when he's listening to a YouTube video or he is telling me about this 00:28:39.639 --> 00:28:44.679 prehistoric whatever, and I'm just like, you know, tell me right before bed so I 00:28:44.679 --> 00:28:50.499 can go to, sleep you know, and I think children experience the same thing. 00:28:50.499 --> 00:28:55.209 What's so beautiful about choice and play is we're activating 00:28:55.614 --> 00:28:57.474 engagement through dopamine. 00:28:57.474 --> 00:29:03.684 And so the thing that happens that in play that, that I think is not really 00:29:03.684 --> 00:29:11.514 fully understood in public domain is that when engagement has fully taken the 00:29:11.514 --> 00:29:17.334 child, they're going return to what they did day after day after day after day. 00:29:18.294 --> 00:29:21.954 And with that, the dopamine of reward is hitting. 00:29:21.954 --> 00:29:26.184 So they're like, yes, they're focusing executive functioning. 00:29:26.334 --> 00:29:32.274 You know, executive functioning does not develop without correct environment. 00:29:32.904 --> 00:29:37.494 I think children are not engaged because they have not played, 00:29:38.544 --> 00:29:42.894 because play develops the foundation of executive functioning. 00:29:43.449 --> 00:29:45.789 Through the dopamine hit of engagement. 00:29:46.479 --> 00:29:51.459 You know, like the child who wants to go to blocks every single day and do the 00:29:51.459 --> 00:29:57.549 same, like they're planning, strategizing, expanding what they did, bringing other 00:29:57.549 --> 00:29:59.919 kids in, you know, it's, it's huge. 00:29:59.919 --> 00:30:06.489 And this is what's young children need to be prepared for academics. 00:30:06.969 --> 00:30:11.139 Toss out the worksheets, bring out the dopamine, please. 00:30:12.609 --> 00:30:15.249 So really education needs a whole new structure, right? 00:30:15.309 --> 00:30:16.479 Education needs. 00:30:16.479 --> 00:30:17.319 It does a revamp. 00:30:17.319 --> 00:30:22.419 And so actually say, this is amazing because this goes to my next question I 00:30:22.419 --> 00:30:29.259 wanted to ask you is how do you envision the future of education to better align 00:30:29.259 --> 00:30:34.004 with the principles of curiosity and wonder, which of course includes play. 00:30:34.599 --> 00:30:38.649 So if you were able to go to the White House. 00:30:39.084 --> 00:30:47.424 Or be this worldwide influencer to make real change happen. 00:30:47.484 --> 00:30:48.204 What would you do? 00:30:48.234 --> 00:30:49.134 What would you say? 00:30:49.134 --> 00:30:54.324 What would you, how do you think we should get change happening 00:30:54.354 --> 00:30:55.944 for the benefit of our children? 00:30:58.194 --> 00:31:04.224 Again, it goes back to, I would say we must. 00:31:04.734 --> 00:31:15.824 From the, from infancy through age nine, the primary concern has to be serving the 00:31:15.824 --> 00:31:25.094 foundational needs of the children, the need for certainty that they, they have 00:31:25.094 --> 00:31:30.104 certainty about the care and wellbeing of. 00:31:30.914 --> 00:31:35.684 Their own being in the classroom, that they know they have an educator that 00:31:35.684 --> 00:31:37.664 cares who's gonna serve their needs. 00:31:37.904 --> 00:31:40.814 Do you know a little girl who comes to the Hummingbird Cottage? 00:31:41.384 --> 00:31:42.914 My little play space? 00:31:43.184 --> 00:31:43.484 Oh, yes. 00:31:43.484 --> 00:31:46.454 You must talk about, we must remember, yeah. 00:31:46.454 --> 00:31:48.194 To talk about Hummingbird Cottage. 00:31:48.314 --> 00:31:49.214 Very exciting. 00:31:49.214 --> 00:31:55.424 She, she was in a public preschool and the Hummingbird Cottage is a play lab. 00:31:55.424 --> 00:31:58.034 It's not a full educational setting. 00:31:59.039 --> 00:32:04.519 She came in and was really depressed and her mother told me her teacher, 00:32:04.549 --> 00:32:10.279 because she was moping, her teacher was withholding snack from her. 00:32:12.319 --> 00:32:16.009 To me, this is grounds for being fired. 00:32:16.129 --> 00:32:17.989 You do not play with food. 00:32:18.259 --> 00:32:21.889 You know, it's like this, like that is messing with her sense of 00:32:21.889 --> 00:32:25.159 certainty that her needs will be met. 00:32:26.164 --> 00:32:30.784 You know, the need to the the need of significance to know that you 00:32:30.784 --> 00:32:37.174 matter, that if you fall on the floor crying, that you're not viewed as 00:32:37.294 --> 00:32:42.574 someone who's trying to manipulate the teacher, rather, you're viewed as. 00:32:43.999 --> 00:32:47.689 You're doing the best you can to regulate, and right now 00:32:47.689 --> 00:32:49.249 you're trying to see if I care. 00:32:49.489 --> 00:32:51.919 You know, it's like, or you're crying. 00:32:51.979 --> 00:32:54.169 I mean, you have to figure out what the message is. 00:32:54.169 --> 00:32:54.469 Right. 00:32:54.469 --> 00:32:54.619 That's 00:32:54.619 --> 00:32:57.229 all Maslow's hierarchy of needs, right? 00:32:57.289 --> 00:33:04.399 It is, and I think that until we put this in place, what we're 00:33:04.399 --> 00:33:08.629 actually having in the us we had another school shooting today. 00:33:09.709 --> 00:33:11.149 No, I haven't seen it. 00:33:11.149 --> 00:33:11.749 Yes. 00:33:12.049 --> 00:33:17.989 A female high school student, and again, it goes back to, I would 00:33:17.989 --> 00:33:24.679 say, those, those students who have taken those horrific actions did not 00:33:24.679 --> 00:33:29.449 get their needs met at home or at school, and they're taking it out. 00:33:29.449 --> 00:33:38.749 And so I think that it's a crisis of humanity that until we say the identity. 00:33:39.399 --> 00:33:46.774 and The joy of children matters first, and we know the thing that 00:33:46.774 --> 00:33:52.985 we know is when we deal with those foundational needs, as Maslow said. 00:33:53.314 --> 00:33:58.474 Then another way we put it is the, if you look at the three brains 00:33:58.474 --> 00:34:04.774 survival, um, the mammalian brain and the neocortex, you know. 00:34:05.914 --> 00:34:06.994 Survival. 00:34:07.054 --> 00:34:08.135 You're born with it. 00:34:08.434 --> 00:34:11.614 Baby screams for food, screams for diaper to be changed. 00:34:11.854 --> 00:34:13.534 We're driven for survival. 00:34:13.864 --> 00:34:15.304 The limbic system. 00:34:16.385 --> 00:34:19.955 The second brain is where early childhood is at. 00:34:20.885 --> 00:34:23.045 Children not regulated. 00:34:23.045 --> 00:34:23.764 Guess what? 00:34:23.764 --> 00:34:27.199 Normal, you know, that's our work. 00:34:28.564 --> 00:34:30.724 Children fighting normal. 00:34:30.844 --> 00:34:34.205 Our work is to teach conflict resolution. 00:34:34.205 --> 00:34:37.489 I. Children not knowing what to do. 00:34:38.779 --> 00:34:42.170 What we're doing is supporting them, helping them make choice 00:34:42.800 --> 00:34:45.019 like that whole limbic system. 00:34:46.220 --> 00:34:51.949 Children do not have access to the neocortex until they have regulation. 00:34:52.790 --> 00:34:55.550 What person do you know who's dysregulated? 00:34:55.880 --> 00:34:58.460 Who has access to thinking? 00:35:00.184 --> 00:35:00.964 No, no one. 00:35:02.734 --> 00:35:06.389 You know, it's, I, it just sparked a little memory in me. 00:35:06.389 --> 00:35:09.659 I actually, I think I wrote a blog post about it a while back. 00:35:10.439 --> 00:35:15.959 It was about looking at really violent perpetrators and there was a scientist 00:35:15.959 --> 00:35:21.479 who and I can't remember the details, sorry, that's my, um, menopausal brain. 00:35:21.559 --> 00:35:24.649 Um, but it's somewhere in a blog post and I'll find it and put a link so 00:35:24.649 --> 00:35:25.909 that people can actually read it. 00:35:25.909 --> 00:35:26.209 Oh, nice. 00:35:27.769 --> 00:35:31.529 There was a researcher that went and researched, , these very 00:35:31.529 --> 00:35:35.309 violent perpetrators, and he actually discovered that none of 00:35:35.309 --> 00:35:37.109 them played in their childhood. 00:35:37.144 --> 00:35:37.434 They 00:35:37.434 --> 00:35:39.449 had Stuart, they were deprived of play. 00:35:39.449 --> 00:35:40.289 Was it Stuart Brown? 00:35:40.289 --> 00:35:40.619 Actually. 00:35:40.619 --> 00:35:41.039 Thank you. 00:35:41.039 --> 00:35:42.449 I think that that that reminds me yeah. 00:35:42.449 --> 00:35:43.139 Stuart Brown. 00:35:43.199 --> 00:35:44.639 Massively important. 00:35:44.639 --> 00:35:45.569 Absolutely, yes. 00:35:45.569 --> 00:35:49.469 They were deprived of play in childhood and therefore became violent perpetrators. 00:35:49.949 --> 00:35:50.994 I mean, know that sounds common. 00:35:50.994 --> 00:35:54.209 It one of the very simplistic, but it was a common thread 00:35:54.299 --> 00:35:55.859 across all of them, wasn't it? 00:35:55.859 --> 00:36:02.994 So what this study said that, um, as he interviewed and looked at, you know, what 00:36:02.994 --> 00:36:10.524 was the common, like you said, thread is that they had come from a home of trauma. 00:36:10.644 --> 00:36:10.944 Yeah. 00:36:11.244 --> 00:36:13.374 And two, they had not played. 00:36:13.929 --> 00:36:15.429 Yeah, those two things. 00:36:17.139 --> 00:36:18.879 And I think that's just shocking. 00:36:18.879 --> 00:36:19.209 You know? 00:36:19.209 --> 00:36:24.579 It's like, but I think if you really get into the brain science of play, which 00:36:24.579 --> 00:36:29.409 most teachers don't have time to do, which is why I love what I do, I get to break 00:36:29.409 --> 00:36:39.489 things down for people, um, is that play is literally our innate drive to develop. 00:36:40.644 --> 00:36:46.764 It's, you know, we, we can delight in infants and toddlers as the infant 00:36:46.884 --> 00:36:52.494 goes to, to, is being driven by play, to crawl, to stand, to reach, to grab. 00:36:53.184 --> 00:36:55.974 We're like, yay, we, we want them to come on. 00:36:56.094 --> 00:36:59.449 But the minute children get articulate, they start speaking, 00:37:00.079 --> 00:37:01.734 they start holding crayons. 00:37:01.854 --> 00:37:06.294 We wanna take it and strip it of the innate drive and put in. 00:37:07.044 --> 00:37:12.234 Um, our fabric, you know, our idea of what academic is. 00:37:12.474 --> 00:37:17.634 So I think if we could see that it's not just the, the academic part 00:37:17.634 --> 00:37:21.054 really is the least of my concerns, 00:37:21.744 --> 00:37:23.454 because children will learn, 00:37:24.204 --> 00:37:25.434 they will learn. 00:37:25.434 --> 00:37:28.434 My son did not read until third grade. 00:37:28.644 --> 00:37:32.184 He graduated in the top of his class. 00:37:34.134 --> 00:37:38.574 There's signs that tell us if a child, it's normal to start reading 00:37:38.574 --> 00:37:41.934 from anywhere of age three to age 12, 00:37:44.094 --> 00:37:45.924 and I do not understand. 00:37:47.394 --> 00:37:51.264 'cause really, if we want to give childhood back to children 00:37:52.104 --> 00:37:54.984 to get them back to being happy. 00:37:55.494 --> 00:37:57.954 Really and curious. 00:37:58.374 --> 00:38:01.704 We need to delay formal learning. 00:38:02.754 --> 00:38:03.054 Yes. 00:38:03.054 --> 00:38:08.394 I was lucky enough when I was growing up in South Africa, my very 00:38:08.394 --> 00:38:10.554 first year of formal education. 00:38:10.614 --> 00:38:15.114 Then it was called grade one, which is now kindergarten, was 00:38:15.114 --> 00:38:17.154 the year that I turned seven. 00:38:17.874 --> 00:38:19.704 I was six going to school. 00:38:19.704 --> 00:38:21.054 My birthday's in August. 00:38:21.054 --> 00:38:23.034 I turned seven in that first year. 00:38:24.249 --> 00:38:30.729 I was ready and I did not come from a family where my parents pushed me to 00:38:30.729 --> 00:38:32.679 read and write and do all these things. 00:38:33.309 --> 00:38:34.419 We just played. 00:38:35.019 --> 00:38:39.159 We literally, I played, I drew, I loved drawing. 00:38:39.429 --> 00:38:41.049 There were books in the house. 00:38:41.049 --> 00:38:46.719 I loved reading about animals and nature, but we just went fishing and played. 00:38:46.719 --> 00:38:48.489 We didn't, there was none of this. 00:38:48.519 --> 00:38:49.389 Oh my gosh. 00:38:49.389 --> 00:38:50.529 You know, I've gotta get you ready for school. 00:38:50.529 --> 00:38:51.639 You go, please. 00:38:51.639 --> 00:38:53.049 I still remember. 00:38:53.934 --> 00:38:58.704 I was, I went to a, convent then, uh, the nuns were our teachers, right? 00:39:00.414 --> 00:39:03.804 And they used to give us these little cards home for homework. 00:39:04.344 --> 00:39:05.814 Didn't have lines on. 00:39:05.934 --> 00:39:11.144 We weren't expected to write our little letters in dotted thirds 00:39:11.604 --> 00:39:16.704 it was a blank card on how we then practiced shaping letters. 00:39:17.094 --> 00:39:20.334 I was seven, and am I behind? 00:39:21.864 --> 00:39:28.914 I mean, literally, you know, and I do remember, , reading came easy to me. 00:39:29.094 --> 00:39:30.804 Writing came easy to me. 00:39:30.804 --> 00:39:31.824 I was ready. 00:39:32.064 --> 00:39:35.574 I mean, and I remember them going to my mom saying, we need to accelerate. 00:39:35.604 --> 00:39:36.594 And my mom said, no. 00:39:36.964 --> 00:39:41.044 I don't know what would've happened if they did, or, or what, but I wasn't 00:39:41.044 --> 00:39:44.494 accelerated and life was fine, you know? 00:39:44.494 --> 00:39:44.584 But. 00:39:45.679 --> 00:39:47.269 I started at seven. 00:39:47.879 --> 00:39:50.609 It's the same thing with now technology. 00:39:50.639 --> 00:39:53.699 We're saying, well, oh, well if we don't give kids these one-on-one iPads, 00:39:53.699 --> 00:39:57.599 if we don't get them learning about technology really, really early and 00:39:57.599 --> 00:39:59.159 get them, they're gonna miss the boat. 00:39:59.159 --> 00:40:01.769 Because, you know, our whole world is technology. 00:40:02.039 --> 00:40:04.739 Have you seen a young child how quickly they learn? 00:40:05.014 --> 00:40:06.269 They don't even need. 00:40:06.644 --> 00:40:07.664 Instructions. 00:40:07.964 --> 00:40:11.504 They take that iPad and within a half an hour they have figured 00:40:11.504 --> 00:40:13.214 out exactly how to use it. 00:40:13.604 --> 00:40:15.104 You do not need to tell them. 00:40:15.734 --> 00:40:22.424 So to take that and to delay that I don't believe is going to do any harm at all. 00:40:22.484 --> 00:40:24.284 In fact, I think it's the opposite. 00:40:24.914 --> 00:40:26.864 I think it'll do the more good. 00:40:27.104 --> 00:40:27.824 Then harm. 00:40:28.184 --> 00:40:31.994 So this whole thing, agree about we've gotta start them early. 00:40:32.504 --> 00:40:37.334 I don't think it's for anyone's benefit, except governments who want to, this 00:40:37.334 --> 00:40:40.964 is now gonna cause a hoo-ha, except governments who want to get parents 00:40:41.024 --> 00:40:43.004 working so that they can pay tax. 00:40:43.034 --> 00:40:47.834 That's what I think because the more kids we can get into schools, learning 00:40:48.014 --> 00:40:54.164 away from homes means that parents can go off and do jobs so that they can earn. 00:40:54.554 --> 00:40:55.364 And pay tax. 00:40:55.394 --> 00:41:00.554 That's what I think it's all about and that's why in the US institutions to have 00:41:00.614 --> 00:41:04.664 these children and so we better, we may as well then do something with them, right? 00:41:04.694 --> 00:41:08.744 Like teach them how to read and write instead of allowing them fine. 00:41:08.744 --> 00:41:12.644 I. Just play, create environments where kids can play. 00:41:12.944 --> 00:41:15.614 So that's just my soapbox for the day, Sally, sorry. 00:41:16.184 --> 00:41:21.134 Well, I would say in the US, even when I was a young mother in the 00:41:21.134 --> 00:41:27.734 eighties, that it was the sooner a child did a milestone, the better. 00:41:28.004 --> 00:41:31.784 So there is this whole thing, sooner is better. 00:41:32.564 --> 00:41:37.574 There were literally in the eighties, it'd be like, is your child, uh. 00:41:38.454 --> 00:41:41.174 walking Yet mine were late walkers. 00:41:41.174 --> 00:41:45.074 No, I would feel shame, like I'd done something wrong then. 00:41:45.074 --> 00:41:46.784 Is your My child's reading. 00:41:47.024 --> 00:41:51.074 My child started reading and at three years old, is your child reading, 00:41:51.074 --> 00:41:57.224 you know, like just this pressure on parents and in the US definitely 00:41:57.224 --> 00:42:02.444 there's pressure on parents to have their children achieving the milestones 00:42:04.034 --> 00:42:07.244 and that the schools that deliver. 00:42:07.904 --> 00:42:08.834 Are packed. 00:42:10.184 --> 00:42:19.034 So in, in my opinion, in the US, what we need is to turn the tide with parents 00:42:20.774 --> 00:42:28.274 that parents need to understand and education feels like a consumer product. 00:42:28.724 --> 00:42:28.814 Mm-hmm. 00:42:29.144 --> 00:42:29.234 Right? 00:42:30.194 --> 00:42:32.444 And the consumer is the parent. 00:42:32.449 --> 00:42:32.679 Mm-hmm. 00:42:33.839 --> 00:42:39.869 The, the family unit who wants their child to succeed and they feel like 00:42:39.869 --> 00:42:41.759 they're gonna be letting them down. 00:42:42.179 --> 00:42:48.149 Like, you know, um, in the nineties, in my first, you know, 4-year-old 00:42:48.149 --> 00:42:52.829 class, I had a parent ask me, what reading program are you going to use? 00:42:53.759 --> 00:42:55.349 Where are the worksheets? 00:42:57.329 --> 00:42:58.619 You know, I was like. 00:42:59.774 --> 00:43:03.344 You know, I was in the middle of my Waldorf training and I was like, what? 00:43:04.004 --> 00:43:05.684 What are you talking about? 00:43:05.834 --> 00:43:12.734 You know, it's like, it's so, you know, it's like a fungus growing 00:43:12.734 --> 00:43:15.074 on the system, in my opinion here. 00:43:15.074 --> 00:43:21.254 So it's interesting in the cultural sense, what's keeping this going? 00:43:22.124 --> 00:43:25.184 What's driving what children don't need? 00:43:26.444 --> 00:43:29.384 Not serving us even as a culture. 00:43:33.404 --> 00:43:36.284 It's a really complicated subject, isn't it? 00:43:36.284 --> 00:43:41.324 It's because as educators who've gone through university and done all the 00:43:41.324 --> 00:43:47.084 psychology units on how children learn, we know what's best for children. 00:43:47.084 --> 00:43:47.099 We know. 00:43:47.414 --> 00:43:49.064 We know what's best for children, right? 00:43:49.064 --> 00:43:53.115 But yet we then get into these situations and in these institutions, in schools. 00:43:54.089 --> 00:44:00.209 And then we forget because actually what's happening is that parents have more and 00:44:00.209 --> 00:44:06.059 more influence and parents are making, they drive it off here are making demands. 00:44:06.059 --> 00:44:06.539 Right? 00:44:06.839 --> 00:44:10.349 And so I guess then schools are just delivering on that demand. 00:44:10.619 --> 00:44:15.959 Instead of saying, hang on a minute, your child is actually going to meet 00:44:16.019 --> 00:44:22.499 all these milestones and they're going to excel if we do it this way. 00:44:23.429 --> 00:44:25.589 And, but I also do see Sally. 00:44:26.099 --> 00:44:29.069 There is a slow movement, there's a change happening. 00:44:29.459 --> 00:44:30.329 Um mm-hmm. 00:44:30.329 --> 00:44:35.249 More so with things like homeschooling home education, and there's this 00:44:35.249 --> 00:44:41.549 massive movement, um, happening here in Australia, more so in the States, 00:44:41.549 --> 00:44:43.899 of course, a little bit in the uk. 00:44:44.359 --> 00:44:47.579 But In speaking to some friends in, in Europe, homeschooling is 00:44:47.579 --> 00:44:49.379 not a big thing in Europe at all. 00:44:49.379 --> 00:44:52.559 In fact, it does not exist in some of those countries at all. 00:44:53.039 --> 00:44:56.909 But certainly the states here in Australia, it's a movement 00:44:56.909 --> 00:44:58.409 that is gaining momentum. 00:44:59.129 --> 00:45:00.240 Part of it is. 00:45:00.449 --> 00:45:05.999 And this is the sometimes the part, and I understand it completely, but then 00:45:05.999 --> 00:45:09.419 on the other side of the scale, I'm seeing kids that are just, as we said 00:45:09.419 --> 00:45:11.939 before, are just left to free range. 00:45:11.939 --> 00:45:13.679 And I'm thinking, uh, hang on a minute. 00:45:13.679 --> 00:45:17.099 Because that in itself is also not. 00:45:19.199 --> 00:45:22.049 You know, you have to have that free range. 00:45:22.049 --> 00:45:26.459 You have to have that free play that has to be there where children 00:45:26.459 --> 00:45:32.159 can explore and push their own boundaries and learn innately, right? 00:45:32.159 --> 00:45:32.219 Yeah. 00:45:32.939 --> 00:45:35.759 But at the same time, if you're going to be pulling children out 00:45:35.759 --> 00:45:38.249 of schools, you also need to. 00:45:39.269 --> 00:45:43.019 Turn that play into playful learning. 00:45:43.109 --> 00:45:45.059 And so that takes a skill. 00:45:45.839 --> 00:45:50.909 And so I do, it does, I do wonder a little bit about that as well, but Yep. 00:45:51.089 --> 00:45:55.349 I think there is a, an awakening by certain parents 00:45:55.349 --> 00:45:57.115 as well in terms of children, 00:45:57.115 --> 00:45:59.245 and it used to be that free range. 00:45:59.605 --> 00:46:03.080 Was, you know, when I was a little girl, I had free range at home. 00:46:03.080 --> 00:46:03.200 Yeah. 00:46:03.205 --> 00:46:05.214 I had free range until seven 00:46:05.214 --> 00:46:06.205 and it's been taken. 00:46:06.205 --> 00:46:09.625 Now we don't let our children free range, so I think unfortunately 00:46:09.625 --> 00:46:10.794 they're not getting it. 00:46:11.125 --> 00:46:15.895 You know, ideally when they were home, they'd have that freedom to, 00:46:16.645 --> 00:46:24.325 you know, be fully engaged and, and playing with neighbors and all of that. 00:46:24.325 --> 00:46:26.035 But we are in a different world. 00:46:26.874 --> 00:46:27.774 Unfortunately, 00:46:27.834 --> 00:46:28.134 yes. 00:46:28.134 --> 00:46:30.240 And I've had children, wouldn't I say to them, oh well. 00:46:30.700 --> 00:46:32.740 No, well, you're just gotta go home and play. 00:46:32.740 --> 00:46:34.600 And they go, oh, I don't have time to play. 00:46:34.690 --> 00:46:35.200 I said, what? 00:46:35.259 --> 00:46:36.460 What do you mean you don't have time to play? 00:46:36.790 --> 00:46:42.009 Oh, well I've got swimming lessons, I've got ballet, I've got music, da da. 00:46:42.580 --> 00:46:46.390 So a lot of children, as you said, you know, once they go home from school, 00:46:46.569 --> 00:46:48.460 which ideally would then be a time. 00:46:48.740 --> 00:46:50.029 A downtime, right. 00:46:50.089 --> 00:46:51.499 To play and explore. 00:46:51.680 --> 00:46:53.930 Run around with your friends, go to the park. 00:46:54.649 --> 00:46:57.890 A lot of these kids don't get that even because they now have 00:46:58.160 --> 00:46:59.749 extracurricular activities. 00:46:59.749 --> 00:47:00.140 Right. 00:47:00.709 --> 00:47:06.499 So there's a lot to think of and it's a lot to consider in society today. 00:47:06.890 --> 00:47:14.959 Um, and it does need a whole rethink and putting children first. 00:47:14.990 --> 00:47:16.459 'cause that's really what it's about. 00:47:16.459 --> 00:47:18.319 It's not about us, it's about them. 00:47:19.495 --> 00:47:25.375 It is, and I think Sir Ken Robinson said it really beautifully when I read this. 00:47:26.005 --> 00:47:28.155 I, got great comfort from it. 00:47:28.275 --> 00:47:34.145 You know, I would remind myself, he said, we don't have to transform the whole 00:47:34.235 --> 00:47:36.995 educational system to make a difference. 00:47:37.325 --> 00:47:41.135 He goes, you are transforming this system when you close your door. 00:47:42.035 --> 00:47:43.445 Oh, and face those children. 00:47:43.835 --> 00:47:46.175 That is transformation of the system. 00:47:46.715 --> 00:47:48.395 Just your piece. 00:47:49.595 --> 00:47:50.525 I love that. 00:47:51.395 --> 00:47:52.475 It's very comforting. 00:47:52.475 --> 00:47:53.975 'cause it can get overwhelming. 00:47:53.975 --> 00:47:55.085 The bigger picture. 00:47:55.415 --> 00:47:55.714 Yes. 00:47:55.745 --> 00:48:03.305 But if just with those children in, in your care as their educator that 00:48:03.305 --> 00:48:09.305 you bring, you know, I even advocate if you just brought one hour of play, 00:48:09.305 --> 00:48:17.435 a day of free play a day, you are doing something massive, massive. 00:48:18.965 --> 00:48:25.175 I am gonna champion you because you are doing something that, you know, millions 00:48:25.175 --> 00:48:30.605 of children are not getting in the classroom at 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 years old. 00:48:32.135 --> 00:48:32.315 And 00:48:32.315 --> 00:48:34.055 children that eight, nine need it too. 00:48:34.415 --> 00:48:34.985 Yes. 00:48:34.985 --> 00:48:40.745 And as you said earlier as well, if you are that teacher who is really. 00:48:41.840 --> 00:48:44.480 Committed to children and their needs. 00:48:44.540 --> 00:48:48.830 And as you said earlier, if you just go to your administration and 00:48:48.830 --> 00:48:50.390 say, look, this is what I'm doing. 00:48:50.450 --> 00:48:53.060 This is what the research says, this is what I know. 00:48:53.060 --> 00:48:59.000 Let, and this is what we know is best practice for children, and I'm going 00:48:59.000 --> 00:49:04.100 to be there and I will facilitate and observe because so many times now I know 00:49:04.250 --> 00:49:05.765 here in Australia, they're very strict. 00:49:07.295 --> 00:49:09.665 In terms of contact hours. 00:49:09.995 --> 00:49:13.115 So you could easily, you know, that is contact hours. 00:49:13.145 --> 00:49:18.005 I'm going to allow them to play, but I will observe and do my 00:49:18.005 --> 00:49:25.384 observations and facilitate and have my provocations and my invitations out 00:49:25.654 --> 00:49:27.995 and see how children learn with that. 00:49:28.355 --> 00:49:32.795 So there are ways around the system, you know, you just have to be, first of all, 00:49:32.795 --> 00:49:35.685 you really just want, must want want. 00:49:35.685 --> 00:49:36.995 it badly enough. 00:49:37.110 --> 00:49:37.730 That's it. 00:49:37.730 --> 00:49:43.565 And then secondly, you really just, if you really wanted badly enough and you believe 00:49:43.565 --> 00:49:46.265 in it enough, you'll make it happen. 00:49:46.265 --> 00:49:47.945 You can make those small changes. 00:49:47.945 --> 00:49:49.265 I really believe that. 00:49:50.735 --> 00:49:52.174 You just have to, I never 00:49:52.355 --> 00:49:52.805 push that. 00:49:52.805 --> 00:49:55.320 I never had an administrator turn me down. 00:49:56.000 --> 00:49:58.670 Yeah, not one because I gave the evidence. 00:49:58.759 --> 00:49:59.000 Exactly. 00:49:59.000 --> 00:50:03.170 And I think that's the key point that you mentioned is that do your research. 00:50:03.470 --> 00:50:09.680 I had a supervisor in a three-year-old classroom come by and say, you, 00:50:09.680 --> 00:50:11.299 we have to label everything. 00:50:11.299 --> 00:50:14.779 It's a mandate, everyth, single thing in the classroom. 00:50:14.779 --> 00:50:19.430 We're talking like 300 little labels up on doorknob door, 00:50:19.515 --> 00:50:21.935 you know, cubby window, window. 00:50:22.670 --> 00:50:27.380 And I pull, I had what I called the red notebook and I pulled it 00:50:27.380 --> 00:50:32.000 out, opened it up, and I said, and here is evidence and research done. 00:50:32.270 --> 00:50:37.700 That visual noise can increase behaviors and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. 00:50:38.090 --> 00:50:40.970 And I said, it needs to be meaning, here's another one. 00:50:40.970 --> 00:50:42.320 It needs to be meaningful. 00:50:42.320 --> 00:50:46.310 So I'll label what's meaningful, but I'm not gonna label the room. 00:50:46.340 --> 00:50:48.410 And she says, check, you're fine. 00:50:49.955 --> 00:50:50.695 She, knew. 00:50:50.875 --> 00:50:51.205 Okay. 00:50:51.205 --> 00:50:52.015 She understands. 00:50:52.015 --> 00:50:53.785 What's it, what's it's about. 00:50:53.875 --> 00:50:55.045 She's gonna manage it. 00:50:55.465 --> 00:50:56.095 I'm okay. 00:50:56.930 --> 00:50:59.815 I, I love that Sally having a red folder with all the research in. 00:51:01.209 --> 00:51:06.309 Oh, I always at my fingertips and here it's, it's like one. 00:51:06.309 --> 00:51:09.490 The other thing that I would say I think is really important, I meet the 00:51:09.490 --> 00:51:13.329 teacher, not meet the teacher at back to school night with the parents. 00:51:13.720 --> 00:51:18.639 I always educated them on the brain research and I would warn 00:51:18.639 --> 00:51:20.709 them, and I never had a complaint. 00:51:20.709 --> 00:51:22.209 In 20 plus years. 00:51:22.629 --> 00:51:26.079 Nobody complained about me, so, you know. 00:51:27.999 --> 00:51:29.649 Where there's a will there's a way. 00:51:30.369 --> 00:51:30.819 Absolutely. 00:51:30.999 --> 00:51:32.049 But I believe that 00:51:32.829 --> 00:51:35.884 where there's a will there's a way you just want to, you, you have to 00:51:35.914 --> 00:51:38.214 want it, and then you will want it. 00:51:38.214 --> 00:51:38.654 You have to want it. 00:51:38.889 --> 00:51:39.279 Yep. 00:51:40.599 --> 00:51:46.509 Sally, you've mentioned a lot of examples already in your career that you've 00:51:46.509 --> 00:51:48.934 seen the transformative power of play. 00:51:50.200 --> 00:51:54.890 Do you have any upcoming projects, at Wunderled that you are particularly 00:51:54.890 --> 00:51:57.440 excited to share with us today? 00:52:00.190 --> 00:52:01.900 You know, it's interesting. 00:52:01.900 --> 00:52:08.920 I'm sitting in Santa Fe, New Mexico in a Airbnb that looks out and I can 00:52:08.920 --> 00:52:14.320 see hundreds of miles and mountains and landscape, and I'm planning. 00:52:14.770 --> 00:52:20.350 The next iteration of what I'm up to in Wunderled And one thing that's 00:52:20.350 --> 00:52:28.360 there is definitely I am concerned with children's emotional wellbeing in the 00:52:28.360 --> 00:52:35.040 classroom and because of the heightened dysregulation and I'm just going say 00:52:35.040 --> 00:52:37.470 I have been there, it's overwhelming. 00:52:37.470 --> 00:52:42.090 As an educator, it can feel like you're going underwater and you can't breathe. 00:52:42.540 --> 00:52:46.620 I had a classroom one time that literally every night I would go 00:52:46.620 --> 00:52:51.090 home and cry for an hour, and then at that time I would look for a new job. 00:52:51.810 --> 00:52:54.660 Because I'm like, do I really have to go back? 00:52:54.660 --> 00:52:55.830 Don't make me go back. 00:52:55.860 --> 00:53:00.090 You know, it's like this is, you know, I'm, I'm trying to regulate myself 00:53:00.090 --> 00:53:05.670 and I have six children who are, you know, I, I, I'm not an octopus and 00:53:05.670 --> 00:53:10.410 I didn't have the help, you know, it was just me and 28 children. 00:53:10.920 --> 00:53:17.550 And so I think we have to start looking at the reality and 00:53:17.550 --> 00:53:21.090 giving teachers real knowledge. 00:53:21.615 --> 00:53:27.015 Of the limbic system in early childhood and how do we address that in the 00:53:27.015 --> 00:53:33.525 classroom so that we can actually have children follow their own interest. 00:53:34.185 --> 00:53:36.345 Otherwise, we're just putting out fires. 00:53:36.645 --> 00:53:41.445 We're, we're surviving the day and it's not necessary we, you don't 00:53:41.445 --> 00:53:47.205 have to survive the day, but it takes the knowledge of how do you 00:53:47.625 --> 00:53:50.385 reach children who seem unreachable? 00:53:52.260 --> 00:53:55.020 There's so many of them now in our classrooms. 00:53:55.440 --> 00:53:57.180 Teachers are really juggling that. 00:53:57.240 --> 00:54:01.380 It's just, it's quite frightening and yeah, you're right. 00:54:01.380 --> 00:54:04.950 I remember days sitting in my car in the parking lot doing deep 00:54:04.950 --> 00:54:08.730 breathing and thinking, okay, what is today going to bring? 00:54:08.730 --> 00:54:11.550 You know, it is very, very real. 00:54:12.535 --> 00:54:13.015 And I think if 00:54:13.015 --> 00:54:17.275 we could make, I, if I could say anything to the president back to that, 00:54:17.275 --> 00:54:21.505 I would say we need smaller classrooms so teachers can actually address 00:54:21.505 --> 00:54:25.855 the real needs in the room so that children can actually grow and learn. 00:54:26.275 --> 00:54:34.135 But I do think we're in crisis and um, I literally follow the educator's lead. 00:54:35.845 --> 00:54:40.525 With my business, you know, it's not, it's not about what I wanna do, it's about what 00:54:40.525 --> 00:54:42.925 their need is and how can I fulfill that. 00:54:43.375 --> 00:54:48.565 And so, you know, I'll always have offerings on play-based education, 00:54:48.565 --> 00:54:54.595 but I want to have the educator out there who doesn't know if 00:54:54.595 --> 00:54:56.455 they can survive another year. 00:54:56.965 --> 00:55:03.355 I wanna give them the toolkit that they're like, oh, this is where I belong. 00:55:04.120 --> 00:55:04.750 Amazing. 00:55:04.750 --> 00:55:06.790 This is, and that's exactly what they need, Sally. 00:55:06.790 --> 00:55:11.770 So on everybody's behalf, I say thank you for that, and also thank you for 00:55:11.770 --> 00:55:18.190 all the amazing work that you do with Wunderled on your website and just 00:55:18.190 --> 00:55:21.370 everywhere where I see you, your summits that you have every year, which is 00:55:21.370 --> 00:55:25.960 where I initially found you, . So I'll definitely put all your links to your 00:55:26.230 --> 00:55:31.840 website, which has got loads of courses on there that educators can do so that 00:55:31.840 --> 00:55:34.030 we all know exactly where to find you. 00:55:34.030 --> 00:55:38.500 And I really urge everybody listening to go and check out, follow 00:55:38.500 --> 00:55:41.920 those links, and go and check out Sally's website and her offerings 00:55:42.160 --> 00:55:44.200 because they're there to help you. 00:55:44.830 --> 00:55:46.300 And they're amazing. 00:55:46.300 --> 00:55:50.530 'cause ultimately all the help that we get directly impacts 00:55:50.530 --> 00:55:51.970 the children that we teach. 00:55:52.210 --> 00:55:54.280 And ultimately, that's what it's all about. 00:55:54.700 --> 00:55:59.920 So Sally, I'd like to thank you so, so very much for being here, taking 00:55:59.920 --> 00:56:05.100 this time while you're in Santa Fe, working on your latest, offering. 00:56:05.340 --> 00:56:10.730 And thank you for taking the time out to come and chat to us and share 00:56:10.730 --> 00:56:14.690 your passion and your wisdom with Blooming Curious and myself today. 00:56:14.720 --> 00:56:15.950 So thanks very much. 00:56:16.700 --> 00:56:17.270 Well, thank you. 00:56:17.270 --> 00:56:19.190 It Has been a delight. 00:56:19.490 --> 00:56:24.800 So that was the incredible Sally Haughey from Wundeled, and I really hope that 00:56:24.800 --> 00:56:30.830 today's episode sparked your curiosity and your awe and your wonder, and that you're 00:56:30.830 --> 00:56:36.110 gonna go out and find something in today's episode that you can think about and 00:56:36.110 --> 00:56:39.380 implement in your teaching from tomorrow. 00:56:40.530 --> 00:56:45.570 If I could ask one small, tiny little favor, it would be please click that share 00:56:45.570 --> 00:56:50.850 button and send this episode to a friend, to a colleague, to a parent, anyone with 00:56:50.850 --> 00:56:52.590 children or who works with children. 00:56:52.890 --> 00:56:56.880 'cause that's the only way we can get this message out to more people so 00:56:56.880 --> 00:56:58.680 that more children can ultimately. 00:56:58.695 --> 00:56:59.355 Benefit. 00:56:59.445 --> 00:57:02.655 And so thanks very much again for listening, for taking the time 00:57:02.955 --> 00:57:04.995 to be here right until the end. 00:57:05.245 --> 00:57:08.575 And until next time, stay blooming curious. 00:57:08.785 --> 00:57:09.385 I'll see you around.