Today on Blooming Curious, we welcome Shana Roberts of Nurture Connect
Play and the Talk and Coffee podcast.
Shana is a mum, author, educator and podcast host.
She helps educators and parents build deeper connections with children
and helps them navigate difficult situations and big emotions.
Welcome to Blooming Curious, Shana.
It's wonderful to have you here.
Thank you so much for having me.
It's great
to sit down and
chat with you more.
I always say to people, you know, although I hate technology, I love technology in
that it helps you connect with people from all over the world so easily.
This would never have happened in days gone by.
So we have to thank technology for these connections we can make.
So that's really cool.
So Shana, you are very busy juggling teaching, being a mum,
an author and a podcast host.
So tell us a little bit about yourself and what led you to creating your website
and Chalk and Coffee, your podcast.
Absolutely.
Well, I began in education about 20 years ago before I began
my study to become a teacher.
I Was first an SSO.
So in South Australia, that's a service school services officer who supports
children within the classroom and different roles within the school.
And I wanted to do that to give me a really great foundation of
understanding how a school works.
And I guess, develop more connections with students and I wanted to do that first
before I went and did my teaching degree.
So it was really great having the, um, experience, which helped me to
understand more of what they were teaching us at university, because I
think hands on experience is I guess, a better way to understand and learn
things than just through textbooks.
So that's how I began working with children.
And then from there, I've worked in education as a teacher for around
13 years, and I've been lucky to have been at the same school for the
last approximately 10 to 11 years.
And within that, it's a very complex site, um, with children from a range
of different backgrounds, quite often with trauma or, , disadvantage.
So it's a very eye opening, and I think makes myself and others who I work with
better educators, because we have to have more understanding more, support,
more connection with the students.
And from all of that, and then having my own child, I then developed my own
business, which first started out as wild and free publishing, which I still have.
And through there, I've published my books and more that are coming, but I
wanted to also do something different.
So have a space that was, I don't know, somewhere people could go
to find resources or just kind of learn about child development,
ways that they can interact and support their children to thrive.
And that's when Nurture Connect Play was born.
That's amazing.
And I think, especially now with everything that's changing in the
world, you know, we've become in quite a, a technological
world as modern world of ours.
And I think I see a lot of disconnect in the world now.
So I think something that you're doing is just amazing.
Helping people to have better connections with their children.
Cause I see a lot of disconnect.
I was teaching health as a specialist subject for a while, and
that has a lot to do with making friends and just issues around.
Um, the way children feel, you know, their whole, their emotions
and how to deal with emotions.
And when kids start opening up and they start talking to you about that, you
realize very quickly that it's not just friendship issues that they have, but
they also don't feel heard at home.
And that's something that was very eye opening for me.
So you can imagine, because I think of our busy lives, perhaps people are so
busy that they're forgetting to connect with their children, that it's not
just about providing all the physical stuff for your child, but also about
providing and having that connection with children that's so important.
Now Shana, you've touched on trauma here, and I know that you say that
you're a trauma informed educator.
What does that mean?
And can you share with us how that has helped you to help children thrive?
Absolutely.
There are so many different frameworks that support teachers to
become a trauma informed educator.
And one of the ways that I was really lucky through my site to
do that was to be trained through the Berry Street education model.
Because we know that trauma impacts on children in different ways, and in in turn
it affects their development and learning.
So by understanding more about the whole child, I think it sets educators
up to enable the school and learning space to really support them and help
them in their educational, but the social emotional development as well.
So before I became trained through the Berry Street, I really resonated
with the idea that Gabor Mati suggests about trauma and how it has the lasting
impact on people, because we know that trauma can lead to reduced cognitive
ability, um, difficulty with memory and concentration, language delays, but also
really impacts the social and friendship issues, as you say, that you also taught
through your health specialist role.
and I used to say that every day within my classroom and students would struggle
with all of those areas and also from the impacts, within their own home lives.
So having this extra training assisted us within, especially my site and
others that I know of to set up a more nurturing environment with specific
strategies and supports we could use
to support the students, so, education and understanding more about their
body and what is happening when they're faced with difficult situations.
And Mattie's work suggests about healing requires compassion,
self awareness and reconnection.
And that's one of the ways, that we do that through Berry Street is
you understand where the children are at developmentally and teaching
them through self regulation, through emotional regulation, through connection,
different ways to support them.
And, I guess one of the foundations that we do that is, it's rooted in
the idea that you need to have strong relationships with your children.
So, connection is one.
Understanding who they are, seeing them as a whole person.
That sometimes the behaviours they represent it's not about them, it's
not about us, it's just a sign of something else going on underneath.
So teaching them how to de escalate self regulation, looking at the factors
that their body is doing, understanding what their triggers are, you know,
what kind of, if they display the fight, flight, freeze symptoms, and how
you can set up your entire classroom
to support that is a really great education model and one that I highly
recommend that any educators willing to go and do to investigate and learn about.
You know, and this is something that so many of us now in schools
all over have classrooms with children with diverse needs.
Absolutely.
And I wonder if you could just, just give us one, you talked about these
strategies that you're using that you've learned through Berry Street.
And I was just thinking about dysregulation.
Dysregulation is such a massive one now, we're seeing more and more children
with diverse needs and often I think dysregulation is something that happens.
Yeah.
Could you give like one example of how you would deal or a tip for a teacher or
even a parent listening, how you could deal with a child who is dysregulated?
What is your advice when it comes to that?
I think not taking it personally and always having positive regard.
So, Dr. Daniel Siegel talks about the whole brain and the hand model.
So when the kids, like flip their lid.
And they're in that state of being highly dysregulated, they're not able to take
in and understand what you're saying.
So using less words and sometimes just being physically present.
Less verbal interactions is a great way to support the children, helping them de
escalate because they're going to feed off your energy if you're calm, if you're
present and they're with them, it helps them to, sometimes de escalate quicker.
But it also just depends on each individual child as
how you would tackle that.
Sometimes they might want you closer, sometimes for your own
safety, you might need to be
further away.
I guess sometimes a lot of the kids I work with too, when they perceive they are in
a stressful situation that's when they have that sometimes, intense reaction.
So feeling like they have an exit, so not blocking the doorway, letting them feel
like they have an out is a great way.
So being in a position where you are safe yourself, cause you have
to always keep yourself safe first, but still being where you are with
the child, supporting them safely.
If it was in my classroom
if the children needed to evacuate, I'd always get them out first, um, stand
in a spot near the door, but not near the child where they felt threatened.
I think things like that are a great way.
Same as if it's your child at home.
Physical presence, you could be close to them, you could be further away
but when you can start to see them de escalate is when you might
begin to interact more, and start to get close to them if it's safe,
I guess and sometimes it just takes time, like you said, give them time and
just be there, but not let them feel threatened in any way that they still
feel that they have an exit, as you said.
And it's really difficult now having all these different situations that
we as teachers have to deal with, but I think it's really important
because we didn't learn all of this stuff at university, you know.
So going on courses, like you did with Berry Street or listening
to podcast episodes like this can really help educators think about
possible students or parents that they have and give them some tips
and strategies that they can use to deal with these situations because it
is becoming more and more prevalent.
Shana, tell me, what do you believe then is the most important elements for
fostering this connection between children and their caregivers or educators?
That's a really great question.
I think connection is super important.
To me, I think there's a lot of things that can develop and are
important to build that connection.
I think one of the things is respect.
Is as a teacher, I always treated my students with respect.
I didn't demand it back.
Once I modeled how I treated them, how I saw them, that aided
in me developing really strong connections with all of my students.
That would be things like asking their permission to look in their
books or write in their books because I view them as it's theirs.
I would like to use it.
I'm just trying to model it in a different way.
If I wanted to borrow something else of theirs.
The same as if they wanted to borrow something of mine within the classroom.
I think besides respect being really present and giving your full attention
is a great one because I can do this as a teacher and as a parent.
Technology is so prevalent within our world as we were talking about
before, and it has such an impact.
So putting phones away.
Even for five minutes, if that's all you can fit into your schedule, that's okay.
But then your child or students know that you are really focused on them
and getting to know them, talking with them, just spending time with them.
So for me, I think, yeah, respect, time, focus, and being really present are really
important to develop strong connections.
I think you've nailed that.
It is being present as so many of the children that I've spoken to
one of their biggest gripes is that their parents don't listen to them.
And when I say what do you mean they don't listen to you?
Aah no because my mom's always on her phone and this is gospel truth exactly
what children have shared with me.
They don't feel listened to therefore they don't feel respected because you
are not giving them your full attention.
Now of course we know we've got things to do, you know, you've got to cook,
you've got to do whatever, whatever.
So you can't give a child 100 percent full attention 100 percent of the time.
But I think when those moments when you're actually interacting with someone,
that's important to put your phone away and I think Simon Sinek had something
on social media where he put the phone in his hand and the minute you have
the phone in your hand, the person that you're speaking to feels a little bit
less, because they feel that they are not the most important person at the
moment because you're more concerned with the message on your phone, right?
Or whatever's going on on your phone.
So that is crucial.
I think that's really important.
What you've just said there.
I also think that purposeful language is really important.
So how you are communicating things.
So as you're saying, it's, you're not able to focus on your child
a hundred percent of the time.
That's, that's okay.
Communicating when you can and when you have the time, making
sure they understand that.
So even with my child, I might say to them, I have five minutes available
before I need to go and do X, Y, and Z. Let's play together for that time and
then when I'm there, I'm really focused
I'm really present when I'm needing to go and if it's a meeting, get ready
for work, letting them know and it makes a lot of the transition smoother
because they understand and know what you're doing and why because you have
clearly communicated that with them.
And that just rang a bell for me, Shana.
I remember when my kids, I learned this so many years ago, and I
remember when my boys were little.
One of the things they said was, if you, let's say your kids are
playing, and all of a sudden you've got to go, right, that's it,
stop everything, we've got to go.
And that just causes like, what the, you know, we are busy playing, and then
you get that whole tantrum or whatever.
Apparently the best thing to do is, to warn them.
So in 10 minutes time, guys, we're going to be doing this and this and that.
And we, I need you to be ready, start packing up or whatever it is,
because in 10 minutes we're going.
And then in five minutes, you give them another warning.
It's five minutes to go, right?
Start doing this now, start doing that.
And I think that even in a classroom, that's important is to warn children that
at this time, this is what's happening and this is what we'll be doing and I
have found that when you do that in a classroom, the kids become real sticklers.
Like, Mrs. Cottino, don't forget, it's now 10 o'clock and we have
to do this and this and this.
I'm going, great, thanks for reminding me.
Which is funny.
Yeah, they would be really if you warn them before and tell them
what's going to be happening.
Boy, they're so ready.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
10 o'clock.
You said this is going to happen.
So it's happening, you know,
Because I know, as we say, there's such diverse needs and
abilities within the classroom.
So I used to love having the visual timer, um, on the board so they knew each
like lesson of the day, what times and pictures so they knew what was coming,
talking about it in the morning so they knew what was happening when, but one
of the things I really loved was I had a clock and you could turn it so it
would count down and it would, block the time out in like covering a red
cover and it just had a battery in it
so when it got to 10 or 5 minutes, I would give them the warnings,
but they also had the visual there.
So they could also learn to self regulate.
Um, so that was another great classroom strategy.
And boy, did they all love, Oh, can we set the timer?
And if I, if the timer went off and I didn't hear it, they
were the ones who reminded me.
So I think just these warnings, right, this is a great way to prevent escalation
in children, because it also gives them a little bit of power, right?
Cause they know now that this is what's going to be happening
and they have to be ready.
And I found that it's works very, very well with children.
That is a very good strategy.
And I hope a
lot of people take that on board.
Another thing I really find useful with my child as well is not just giving them
the power, giving them the choice, feeling like they're in control of part of the
situation is a really useful strategy.
And I give him a warning, but sometimes when they're very young,
they don't understand concepts of time.
So I do find ahead of time, five or 10 minutes, we need to leave
in the car in five minutes.
I still say to him, because it's getting him used to concepts of time
and things like that but what would you like to bring with you in the car?
And quite often then they'll choose, things they want to take with them.
Okay.
Are you hopping in the car or would you like me to help you?
Giving them the option first.
And then it just makes that transition a lot smoother, as you say.
Yeah, and it does give them the choice as well, you know, do you want to get
in by yourself or shall I help you in?
Yeah, that also has this little bit of effect of giving them some agency
because you're giving them an option, you know That's right both ways you
get what you want, but I think that they have they feel like they have a
little bit of control which is amazing.
As we've already spoken about that there are children today in this fast paced
world of ours, and I think a lot of adults struggle to connect with children.
We've already spoken about some of the strategies that they can use, but do you
think there's anything else with someone's feeling quite disconnected from their
child what is there that they can do?
Uh, and it happens with classrooms and it happens in families.
Adults sometimes they have this feeling that they're not connecting
with their child or with their student.
Do you have any advice for that and how they can build that
connection again apart from just trying to be present and listening?
Or is that just the best thing?
I think that's part of it, but I also think having fun, so being present,
putting technology away, if that's one of the, factors that's contributing
to you feeling disconnected, pop it away, have fun, play games, be
silly, tell jokes, have a dance party in the kitchen, you know, that
releases all the positive endorphins.
And that helps drive connection as well.
So doing things like that, have a racing game, go on the
trampoline, anything that helps.
you to have fun with your child and just enjoy each other's company.
I love that.
We need a bit more fun in our
lives yeah.
We can never have enough.
And children
love fun.
I mean, that's their big thing.
They do.
How was your day?
Oh, it was so fun.
You know, they love that.
If it was just fun, that's, that's then, you know, that's
all they need just to have fun.
So if you can bring that into your life, I think that's half the battle, probably
most of the battle won, you know, so that's, that's amazing advice there.
Shana, lately we hear a lot about it on social media as well, is that children
are very much lacking often in resilience.
Yeah.
What do you see the connection between resilience, or is there
a connection between resilience and connection with caregivers?
Does this connection and resilience, does it play a role in children
having better resilience?
Yeah, absolutely.
I think it does.
I think child development always comes down to connection and the relationship
they have with the people closest to them.
I think developing resilience and having an understanding of
emotional intelligence, the basic things of what we've talked about,
assisting children to regulate.
Understanding that they're going to come across difficult situations,
being okay with feeling uncomfortable and helping guide them through
those, different challenges is big.
I know that my child struggles with that, but a lot of modeling, I think,
helps them to develop those skills so when you're faced with adversity.
And how you regulate yourself, how you, the language you use.
So even if I, for example, what did I do the other day?
I lost my car keys again, which is quite regular.
It's a sign of stress.
Yeah.
Oh, I've lost my, my keys again.
I'm feeling really annoyed, frustrated.
Okay.
That's okay.
I'm going to think about where I last saw them.
Okay, where can I look first?
Hmm.
And just having that conversation with my son, and he's like, uh, the couch.
Oh, that's a great idea.
So now he's starting to help me.
So we'd go and check the couch.
Oh, they're not here.
Okay, I might go and check my bag.
Oh, we found them.
Amazing.
Now we can go.
But it was just me doing that modeling, I guess how I felt
talking through the situation and now he's starting to do the same.
With bigger situations, you know, he's seen me become upset.
He's seen me cry, and a lot of the time we practice skills when he's regulated.
Oh, yeah.
Which is a great thing.
So when it's happening, I can do it.
But he's also starting to naturally do it himself now, stamping his foot,
curling his hands up into a fist.
You know, if something happens that he's not happy with, he doesn't like.
He's, they're always going to have those situations, but it's just helping him
to navigate them a little bit easier and now he's quicker to respond with,
Oh, okay, he's becoming more resilient because he's having that natural
exposure and modeling from other people.
Yeah.
Modeling is so important.
Yeah, absolutely.
Because everything that we do and say and not do and not say,
children pick up on those cues.
So I think modeling is absolutely crucial when it comes to teaching kids how to
navigate life and even how to learn.
It's like that old explicit instruction, you have to actually
show children how to do it.
And I find that you've got to show them how to behave
and how to handle situations.
It's up to us.
We are the North Star, so to speak, to help children learn and
deal with all their issues and frustrations because they don't know,
they don't have those skills yet.
We actually have to teach that to them as adults.
And the problem comes is if we ourselves don't know how to deal with our own
issues and our own dysregulation.
So I think very often we have to learn how to regulate ourselves first so that
we can then teach that to children.
And I just interviewed.
some guests a couple of weeks ago and we were talking exactly about that,
about how we as adults have to first learn those skills for ourselves so that
we can teach the children because so often I think so many of us, especially
of a certain generation, We never learned how to regulate ourselves.
You know, uh, in my day, it was always children are seen and not heard.
So we never learned how to, how do you regulate yourself?
No.
Well, if you've got a problem, you just scream and shout, right?
Um, and that's just not helpful to anybody.
So we really have to learn those skills.
I think that's really
very good advice.
And I think being very self aware within yourself and learning to tune
into your own body helps you become able to regulate, I guess, easier.
And it's a skill that's, you know, you learn as you go.
And it's one everyone can learn and it's one everyone can learn
to manage in different ways.
I guess one of the things that I think helps my son to become more resilient
is since becoming a parent, I've had a bit of a lens shift, so to speak.
So thinking about what I can do to help him be successful and set him up
for success in all areas of his life.
And one of the ways is by doing the modeling, making sure I'm very conscious
of what I'm saying, what I'm doing with my actions, because everything,
as we say, is picked up by them.
Shana, if you could give one piece of advice to parents and
educators about building connections with children, what would it
be?
I think if I could give one piece of advice, would be to slow
down, slower than you think.
Things with children, they take a long time to, process, but just by
allowing enough time to do things.
You know, the world at the moment is so fast paced.
So taking the time to slow down, to really connect, to really engage, even if it's
the routine of getting in the car, when, when appropriate, so not when you have
to rush off to work, but slowing down, doing things together, allowing your kids
the opportunity to have a bit of a say in what they're doing and how it's happening,
with things like we were talking about before, hopping in the car, giving them
the space to try and do it first before you step in and say, would you like
to hop in, or would you like to help me if they're struggling a little bit?
I think it's a really great way, and it helps to, I guess, lay the foundation
to connect, to build respect, to have those situations where you can model
things for them to learn, to help with regulation, to build resilience.
Everything kind of, it's very layered.
So once you start with the basic, develop the connection, develop the great
relationship with each other, then you can start to do all of these other parts.
You know, just thinking as you were talking there, when you rush kids, I
think very often as a teacher, you see kids coming in the morning sometimes,
and they're all over the place.
And I think that often, if I think back to my time, when my kids were
little, I think that comes from a rush in the mornings, hurry up, we're late,
, where are your things, your school bag, your lunch, da, da, da, da, da.
And I think that just whips everybody up into a frenzy.
Yeah.
And so I think that's wonderful advice is just to slow down.
And so I often, I've trained my kids since they were little.
The night before you put out your uniform, you put out your school bag,
you pack your bag, you put in your homework, you get yourself organized.
Right.
So that in the morning.
There isn't this big rush, which just gets everybody frazzled.
And then by the time the kids come to school, the child's already crying and
they're already, you know, heightened and dysregulated because things have
just been so chaotic in the morning.
So I think that that piece of advice to slow down is really, really,
really valuable for everybody.
And I think it helps us too, you know, If you slow down, it's such a, so much
better to start your day in a nice, calm, even keeled way than to be all
rushed and, chomping at the bit and everybody hurry up, hurry up, hurry up.
And, and I don't think that's really a great way for anybody to start the day.
So thank you for
that.
That's okay.
And I think people forget sometimes that a lot of adults expect the same
of children that they would have other adults and they forget that
they're younger and still developing.
And I myself hate it when I start the day feeling dysregulated and most of the
time it has nothing to do with my son.
It's just other things that have happened.
So grounding myself and making sure.
Within our morning routine, I allow enough time for us to connect first, before we
do anything, organizing myself the night before, as you did with your children.
Um, it all just helps most days for them to start.
Positive, calm and connected, which to me, you know, as you say, it lays the
way for the day to be more pleasant.
Yes.
Shana I think we're coming to the end, but I wanted to talk to you now about
your job as a, or your role as an author.
You have published books, which I am just so in awe of.
Tell us a little bit about your books and how do they fit into this whole
thing with connection with children?
Absolutely, um, I found since having my child it just spurred a lot
of creativity and it's been such a fun journey learning all about
publishing and how to go about it.
But my first book, Mama, I See You, kind of supports the child parent
relationship when the child is newborn.
It's kind of like a, as someone said to me once a snapshot of a
really special moment in time when you are your baby's entire world.
So in the middle of the night, one night it just popped into my head.
And from there I ended up with the lovely story.
I loved that time.
It was to me, magical, also tricky as we have lots of things, you
know, middle of the night, wake ups and feeds but I still loved it.
I also wanted to make sure I created a bottle feeding version, because
relationships and connections with mothers and children can still be developed
it doesn't just depend on breastfeeding, so that was really important for
me to have that representation.
And I think the amazing illustrations within the book really reflect what
I was trying to convey, cause the whole point of starting the book
was to create books that support connection, but are created with heart.
So they're created with, the idea of relationships are special and how we can
support that, which kind of led me into my second book, which was called Don't Go.
And it's about Joey, the koala and how he faces separation anxiety and how his
mom supports him through this challenging situation and uses strategies such as,
their close bond, reassurance, self regulation by co regulating with her.
And it's a lovely little book, and there's some things I do in there with
my own child that kind of, were the foundation for this story to be written
and I love the little illustrations and I love how I used the animals
because that's a great way for kids to understand storytelling as well.
And I have more in the works, but time is, a factor being really busy.
So I'm trying to do these well and trying to take my time to create resources
that support these books for educators.
and families to use with their children.
Amazing.
You know, just again, as you speak, I think of my own life really, and I was
thinking about when my children, who are now 23 and 24, when they were babies.
Yep.
And feeding them, I was so lucky is that I did not have a phone and those times
of feeding them, first breast and then bottle, I would always, of course, even
with a bottle, hold them, feeding them.
And I just remember staring at these beautiful little faces and noticing
every day the little eyebrows coming out and the little lashes getting longer.
And it was such a magical, magical time for me and I wouldn't change that for
anything and I often now I sometimes see, you know, and it's not a judgment.
It was just comparing it to myself Is it just what an what an amazing
time it was Such a connection and I had no distractions.
I was in the moment with my child and I sometimes I see young mums and
they're feeding but they're also on their phones and I think to myself,
it's such a missed opportunity.
You know, it's so wonderful that just that simplicity of being in the moment.
It's like when you're creating a work of art and it's just you and the medium.
It's a type of therapy and you're not spreading yourself thin.
You are just in that moment.
And I think it's such a healthy way for us to be as well, especially when
you're parenting, it can be so fraught.
You're not getting enough sleep.
There's so many demands, They're crying.
And then you get these special moments of silence when they're feeding.
And it's just this moment where you and your child can just be, and I
used to absolutely love those moments.
That's a treasure.
So if anybody out here is listening, and you're a young mum, put away
your phone and just be in the moment.
Because, not just for the child, but for you too.
I think that's, it's always something so powerful that stayed with me.
Shana, before we go, what impact do you hope that your work that you're doing
with your books that you're doing in your school, what's your hope that your work,
the impact it'll leave on the way children are nurtured and taught for the future?
I guess for me, it's rooted in why I became a teacher in the first
place, trying to make the world a better place, even if it's one child,
because it's that ripple effect.
It's, their self belief, how they view others, their relationship with others.
For a short period of time you develop such a close bond with the children you
teach and I think that's really powerful and I hope that everything I'm doing can
have the impact or it has the ability to support one child to feel like they
are seen and that they are valued.
And I hope it has that impact within my own, child as well.
I'm sure it does because I can see that you are such a gentle, loving person
and such a creative person and I'm sure that your gentleness really impacts your
own child and those that you work with.
So I think everything you're doing is just, is leaving such a valuable
legacy for all the children.
So I thank you on behalf of everybody and all the people's
children that you deal with.
Thank you very much.
Sometimes, sometimes parents are often, so busy that you sometimes forget to say
thank you, and think everything that you're doing is really, really powerful.
So well done and congratulations on your books, which is just amazing.
Thank you so much.
So Shanna, thanks so much for being on Blooming Curious today.
I think it's been a wonderful conversation and a one that I
really hope touches the lives and hearts of so many people listening.
So thank
you so much.
It's been a pleasure and I look forward to chatting with you again.
So that was Shana Roberts.
And listen, if you enjoyed this episode today, could you do me a favor?
Please click that share button and share it with a colleague or friend
or parent so that we can get this message that we have on Blooming
Curious out to a lot more people.
Until next week, I'll see you again next time.
Same place.
See you around.
Today on Blooming Curious, we welcome Shana Roberts of Nurture Connect
Play and the Talk and Coffee podcast.
Shana is a mum, author, educator and podcast host.
She helps educators and parents build deeper connections with children
and helps them navigate difficult situations and big emotions.
Welcome to Blooming Curious, Shana.
It's wonderful to have you here.
Thank you so much for having me.
It's great
to sit down and
chat with you more.
I know, it's just so great.
I always say to people, you know, although I hate technology, I love technology in
that it helps you connect with people from all over the world so easily.
This would never have happened in days gone by.
So we have to thank technology for these connections we can make.
So that's really cool.
So Shana you are very busy juggling teaching, being a mum,
an author and a podcast host.
So tell us a little bit about yourself and what led you to creating your website
and Chalk and Coffee, your podcast.
Absolutely.
Well, I began in education about 20 years ago before I began
my study to become a teacher.
I Was first an SSO.
So in South Australia, that's a service school services officer who supports
children within the classroom and different roles within the school.
And I wanted to do that to give me a really great foundation of
understanding how a school works.
And I guess, develop more connections with students and.
I wanted to do that first before I went and did my teaching degree.
So it was really great having the, um, experience, which helped me to
understand more of what they were teaching us at university, because I
think hands on experience is far more.
Um, of a learning, I guess, a better way to understand and learn
things than just through textbooks.
So that's how I began working with children.
And then from there, I've worked in education as a teacher for
around 13 years, and I've been lucky to have been at the same
school for the last approximately.
10 to 11 years.
And within that, it's a very complex site, um, with children from a range
of different backgrounds, quite often with trauma or, um, disadvantage.
So it's a very eye opening, um, and I think makes myself and others
who I work with better educators, because we have to have more.
Understanding more, um, support, more connection with the students.
And from all of that, and then having my own child, I then developed my own
business, which first started out as wild and free publishing, which I still have.
And through there, I've published my books and more that are coming, but I
wanted to also do something different.
So have a space that was, I don't know, somewhere people could go.
to find resources or just kind of learn about child development,
ways that they can interact and support their children to thrive.
And that's when Nurture Connect Play was born.
That's amazing.
And I think, especially now with everything that's changing in the
world, yeah, regards, you know, we've become in quite a, a technological
world as modern world of ours.
And I think I see a lot of disconnect in the world now.
So I think something that you're doing is just amazing.
Helping people to have better connections with their children.
Cause I see a lot of disconnect and even, you know, I've been teaching,
I was teaching health as a specialist subject for a while, and that has
a lot to do with making friends and
it has a lot to do with making friends and just issues around.
Um, the way children feel, you know, their whole, their emotions
and how to deal with emotions.
And when kids start opening up and they start talking to you about that, you
realize very quickly that it's not just friendship issues that they have, but
they also don't feel heard at home.
Uh, and that's something that was very eye opening for me.
So you can imagine, because I think of our busy lives, perhaps people are so
busy that they're forgetting to connect with their children, that it's not
just about providing all the physical stuff for your child, but also about
providing and having that connection with children that's so important.
Now Shana, you just You've said you've touched on trauma here,
and I know that you say that you're a trauma informed educator.
How, what does that mean?
And can you share with us how that has helped you to help children thrive?
Absolutely.
There are so many, um, different frameworks that support teachers to
become a trauma informed educator.
And one of the ways that I was really lucky through my site to
do that was to be trained through the Berry Street education model.
Because we know that trauma impacts on children in different ways, and in in turn
it affects their development and learning.
So by understanding more about the whole child, um, I think it sets educators
up to enable the school and learning space to really support them and help
them in their educational, but the social emotional development as well.
Um, so before I became trained through the Berry Street, I really resonated
with the idea that Gabor Mati suggests about trauma and how it has the lasting
impact on people, because we know that trauma can lead to reduced cognitive
ability, um, difficulty with memory and concentration, language delays, but also
really impacts the social and friendship issues, as you say, that you also taught
through your health specialist role.
Um, and I used to say that every day within my classroom and.
students would struggle with all of those areas and also from the impacts,
um, within their own home lives.
So having this extra training assisted us within, especially my site and
others that I know of to set up a more nurturing environment with specific
strategies and supports we could use.
To, I guess,
support the students, um,
you know, all around them.
So, education and understanding more about their body and what is happening when
they're faced with difficult situations.
And
I know that, um, Mattie's work suggests about healing requires compassion,
self awareness and reconnection.
And that's one of the ways, I guess, that we do that through Berry Street is.
You understand where the children are at developmentally and teaching
them through self regulation, through emotional regulation, through connection,
different ways to, support them.
And, I guess one of the foundations that we do that is, it's rooted in
the idea that you need to have strong relationships with your children.
So, connection is one.
Understanding who they are, seeing them as a whole person.
That sometimes the behaviours they represent um, it's not about them, it's
not about us, it's just a, a sign of something else going on underneath.
Um, so Teaching them how to de escalate self regulation, looking at the
factors that their body is doing, um, understanding what their triggers are, you
know, what kind of, if they display the fight, flight, freeze symptoms, um, and
how you can set up your entire classroom.
To support that is a really great, um, education model and one that I highly
recommend that any educators willing to go and do to investigate and learn about.
Yeah, you know, and this is something that so many of us now
in schools all over have classrooms with children with diverse needs.
Absolutely.
And I wonder if you could just, just give us one, um, you talked about
these strategies that you're using that you've learned through Berry Street.
And I was just thinking about dysregulation.
Dysregulation is such a massive one now, I think, with, you know, we're
seeing more and more children with diverse needs and often I think
dysregulation is something that happens.
Yeah.
Could you give one example of how you would deal or a tip for a teacher or
even a parent listening, how you could deal with a child who is dysregulated?
I think not taking it personally and always having positive regard.
So, Dr. Daniel Siegel talks about the whole brain and the hand model.
So when the kids, flip their lid.
And they're in that state of being highly dysregulated.
They're not able to take in and understand what you're saying.
So using less words and sometimes just being physically present and less, Verbal
interactions is a great way to support the children, helping them de escalate
because they're going to feed off your energy if you're calm, if you're present
and they're with them, it helps them to, um, sometimes de escalate quicker.
But it also just depends on each individual child as
how you would tackle that.
Sometimes they might want you closer, sometimes for your own
safety, you might need to be
further
away.
Um, I guess sometimes a lot of the kids I work with too, when they perceive
They are in a stressful situation.
That's when they have that sometimes, um, intense reaction.
So feeling like they have an exit, so not blocking the doorway, letting them feel
like they have an out is a great way.
So being in a position where you are safe yourself, cause you have
to always keep yourself safe first, but still being where you are with
the child, supporting them safely.
Um, if I, if it was in my classroom.
If the children needed to evacuate, I'd always get them out first, um, stand
in a spot near the door, but not near the child where they felt threatened.
Threatened, yeah.
Yeah.
I think things like that are a great way.
Same as if it's your child at home.
Um, physical presence, you could be close to them, you could be further away.
But when you can start to see them de escalate is when you might.
Begin to interact more, um, and start to get close to them if it's safe,
I guess.
And sometimes it just takes time, like you said, give them time and just be
there, but not, but not just be there, but not let them feel threatened in
any way that they still feel that they have an exit, as you said.
And it's really difficult now having all these.
Um, different situations that we as teachers have to deal with, but I think
it's really important because we didn't learn all of this stuff at university,
you know, so going on courses, I guess, like you did with Berry Street or
listening to podcast episodes like this can really help educators think about.
possible students or, you know, parents that they have and give them some tips
and strategies that they can use to deal with these situations because it
is becoming more and more prevalent.
Um, Shana, tell me, what do you believe then is the most important elements for
fostering this connection between children and their caregivers or educators?
Because I think, as you've just said, That connection is the thing that perhaps
helps children de escalate, right?
So, what do you believe are the most important elements of fostering this
connection between children and adults?
That's a really great question.
I think connection is super important.
To me, I think there's a lot of things that can develop and are
important to build that connection.
I think one of the things is respect.
Is as a teacher, I always, um, treated my students with respect.
I didn't demand it back.
Once I modeled how I treated them, how I saw them, um, that aided
in me developing really strong connections with all of my students.
Um, that would be things like asking their permission to look in
their books or write in their books because I view them as it's theirs.
I would like to use it.
I'm just trying to model it in a different way.
Um, if I wanted to borrow something else of theirs.
The same as if they wanted to borrow something of mine within the classroom.
Um, I think.
Besides respect being really present and giving, giving your full attention
is a great one because I can do this as a teacher and as a parent, um,
technology is so prevalent within our world as we were talking about
before, and it has such an impact.
So putting phones away.
Even for five minutes, if that's all you can fit into your schedule, that's okay.
But then your child or students know that you are really focused on them
and getting to know them, talking with them, just spending time with them.
So for me, I think, yeah, respect, time, focus, and being really present are really
important to develop strong connections.
I think that is,
I think you've nailed that.
It is.
Being present as so many of the children that I've spoken to one
of their biggest gripes is that Their parents don't listen to them.
And when I say what do you mean?
They don't listen to you Aah no because my mom's always on her phone
and This is gospel truth exactly what children have shared with me.
They don't feel listened to therefore they don't feel respected because you
are not giving them your full attention.
Now of course we know we've got things to do, you know, you've got to cook,
you've got to do whatever, whatever.
So you can't give a child 100 percent full attention 100 percent of the time.
But I think when those moments when you're actually interacting with someone,
That's important to put your phone away and I think Simon Sinek had something
on social media where he put the phone in his hand and the minute you have
the phone in your hand, the person that you're speaking to feels a little bit
less because they feel that they are not the most important person at the
moment because you're more concerned with the message on your phone, right?
Or whatever's going on on your phone.
So that is crucial.
I think that's really important.
What you've just
said there.
I also think that purposeful language is really important.
So how you are communicating things.
Um, so as you're saying, it's, you're not able to focus on your
child a hundred percent of the time.
That's, that's okay.
Communicating when you can and when you have the time, making
sure they understand that.
So even with my child, I might say to them, I have five minutes
available before I need to go and do X, Y, and Z. Um, let's.
Play together for that time and then when I need to go, you know, I'm, but
when I'm there, I'm really focused.
I'm really present when I'm needing to go and if it's a meeting, get ready for work.
Um, letting them know and it makes a lot of the transition smoother
because they understand and know what you're doing and why because you have
clearly communicated that with them.
And that just rang
a bell for me, Shana.
I remember when my kids, I learned this so many years ago, and I
remember when my boys were little.
One of the things they said was, if you, let's say your kids are
playing, and all of a sudden you've got to go, right, that's it,
stop everything, we've got to go.
And that just causes like, what the, you know, we are busy playing, and then
you get that whole tantrum or whatever.
Apparently the best thing to do is, to warn them.
So in 10 minutes time, guys, we're going to be doing this and this and that.
And we, I need you to be ready, start packing up or whatever it is,
because in 10 minutes we're going.
And then in five minutes, you give them another warning.
It's five minutes to go, right?
Start doing this now, start doing that.
And I think that even in a classroom, that's important is to warn children that.
At this time, this is what's happening and this is what we'll be doing and I
have found that when you do that in a classroom, the kids become real sticklers.
Like, Mrs. Cottino don't forget, it's now 10 o'clock and we have
to do this and this and this.
I'm going, great, thanks for reminding me.
Which is funny.
Yeah, they would be really if you warn them before and tell them
what's going to be happening.
Boy, they're so ready.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
10 o'clock.
You said this is going to happen.
So it's happening, you know,
because I know, um, as we say, there's such diverse needs and
abilities within the classroom.
So I used to love having the visual timer, um, on the board so they knew
Each like lesson of the day, what times and pictures So they knew what was
coming, talking about it in the morning.
So they knew.
What was happening when, but one of the things I really loved was I had a
clock and you could turn it so it would count down and it would, um, block
the time out in like covering a red cover and it just had a battery in it.
So when it got to 10 or 5 minutes, I would give them the warnings,
but they also had the visual there.
So they could also learn to self regulate.
Um, so that was another great classroom strategy.
And boy, did they all love, Oh, can we set the timer?
And if I, if the timer went off and I didn't hear it, they
were the ones who reminded me.
So
I think just these warnings, right, this is a great way to.
prevent DS.
This is a great way to prevent escalation in children.
Uh, if you give them, because it also gives them a little bit of power, right?
Cause they know now that this is what's going to be happening
and they have to be ready.
And I found that that is, it's works very, very well with children.
That is a very good strategy.
And I hope a
lot of people take that on board.
Another thing I really find useful with my.
Child as well is not just giving them the power, giving them the choice, feeling
like they're in control of part of the situation is a really useful strategy.
And I give him a warning, but sometimes when they're very young,
they don't understand concepts of time.
Cool.
So I do find ahead of time, five or 10 minutes.
We need to leave in the car in five minutes.
I still say to him, because it's getting him used to concepts
of time and things like that.
but Um, what would you like to bring with you in the car?
And quite often then they'll choose, um, things they want to take with them.
Okay.
Are you hopping in the car or would you like me to help you?
Giving them the option first.
And then it just makes that transition.
And I guess, um, a lot smoother, as you say.
Yeah, and it does give them the choice as well, you know, do you want to get
in by yourself or shall I help you in?
Yeah, that also has this little bit of effect of giving them some agency
because you're giving them an option, you know That's right both ways you get
what you want, but I think that they have they feel like they have a little
bit of control Which is amazing Do you think As we've already spoken about that
there are children today in this fast paced world of ours, and I think a lot of
adults struggle to connect with children.
We've already spoken about some of the strategies that they can use,
but do you think there's anything else with someone's feeling quite
disconnected from their child?
What is there that they can do?
Uh, and it happens with classrooms and it happens in families.
Adults have this, sometimes they have this feeling that they're
not connecting with their, with their child or with their student.
Do you have any advice for that and how they can build that
connection again apart from just trying to be present and listening?
Or is that just the best thing?
I think that's Part of it, but I also think having fun, so being present,
putting technology away, if that's one of the, um, factors that's contributing
to you feeling disconnected, um, yeah, pop it away, have fun, play games,
be silly, tell jokes, have a dance party in the kitchen, you know, that
releases all the positive endorphins.
And that helps drive connection as well.
So doing things like that, um, have a racing game, go on the
trampoline, anything that helps.
you to have fun with your child and just enjoy each other's company.
I love that.
We need a bit more fun in our
lives Yeah.
We can never have enough.
And children
love fun.
I mean, that's their big thing.
They do.
How was your day?
Oh, it was so fun.
You know, they love that.
If it was just fun, that's, that's then, you know, that's
all they need just to have fun.
So if you can bring that into your life, I think that's half the battle, probably
most of the battle won, you know, so that's, that's amazing advice there.
Um, I love the fact that we can edit.
Oh, I know.
We've done that.
I'm just looking because we've covered a lot of these questions that I
have actually already spoken about.
So it's so nice being able to do this, Shana.
Um, we've done that.
Oh, yeah, this is a good one.
Shana, lately We hear a lot about it on social media as well, is that children
are very much lacking often in resilience.
Yeah.
What do you see the connection between resilience, or is there
a connection between resilience and connection with caregivers?
Does this connection and resilience, does it play a role in children
having better resilience?
Yeah, absolutely.
I think it does.
I think.
Child development always comes down to connection and the relationship they
have with the people closest to them.
Um, I think developing resilience and having an understanding of emotional
intelligence, the basic things of what we've talked about, you know,
um, assisting children to regulate.
Understanding that they're going to come across difficult situations,
being okay with feeling uncomfortable and helping guide them through those,
um, different challenges is big.
Um, I know that my child struggles with that, but a lot of modeling, I think,
helps them, um, to develop those skills so when you're faced with adversity.
And how you regulate yourself, how you, the language you use.
Um, so even if I, for example, what did I do the other day?
I lost my car keys again, which is quite regular.
It's a sign of stress.
Yeah.
Um, but my, you know, Oh, I've lost my, my keys again.
I'm feeling really annoyed, frustrated.
Okay.
That's okay.
I'm going to think about where I last saw them.
Okay, where can I look first?
Hmm.
And just having that conversation with my son.
And he's like, uh, the couch.
Oh, that's a great idea.
So now he's starting to help me.
So we'd go and check the couch.
Oh, they're not here.
Okay, I might go and check my bag.
Oh, we found them.
Amazing.
Now we can go.
Um, but it was just me doing that modeling, I guess.
How I felt talking through the situation and now he's starting to do the same.
Um, with bigger situations, you know, he's seen me become upset.
He's seen me cry.
And a lot of the time we practice skills when he's regulated.
Oh, yeah.
Which is a great thing.
So when it's happening, I can do it.
But he's also starting to naturally do it himself now, stamping his foot.
Um, curling his hands up into a fist, um, you know, if something happens that
he's not happy with, he doesn't like, you know, he's, they're always going to have
those situations, but it's just helping him to navigate them a little bit easier
and now he's quicker to respond with, Oh, okay, he's becoming more resilient.
Um, because he's having that natural exposure and modeling from other people.
Yeah.
Modeling is so important.
Yeah, absolutely.
Because everything that we do and say and not do and not say,
children pick up on those cues.
So I think modeling is absolutely crucial when it comes to teaching kids how to
navigate life and even how to learn.
I think modeling there, modeling is absolutely crucial.
It's like that old explicit instruction, you have to actually
show children how to do it.
And I find that you've got to show them how to behave
and how to handle situations.
It's up to us.
We are the, the North Star, so to speak, to help children learn and, and.
and deal with all their issues and frustrations because they don't know,
they don't have those skills yet.
We actually have to teach that to them as adults.
And the problem comes is if we ourselves don't know how to deal with our own
issues and our own dysregulation.
So I think very often we have to learn how to regulate ourselves first so that
we can then teach that to children.
And I just interviewed.
some guests a couple of weeks ago and we were talking exactly about that,
about how we as adults have to first learn those skills for ourselves so that
we can teach the children because so often I think so many of us, especially
of a certain generation, We never learned how to regulate ourselves.
You know,
uh,
in my day, it was always children are seen and not heard.
So we never learned how to, how do you regulate yourself?
No.
Well, if you've got a problem, you just scream and shout, right?
Um, and that's just not helpful to anybody.
So we really have to learn those skills.
I think that's really
very good advice.
And I think being very self aware within yourself and learning to tune
into your own body helps you become able to regulate, I guess, easier.
And it's a skill that's, you know, you learn as you go.
And it's one everyone can learn and it's one everyone can learn
to manage in different ways.
Um, I guess one of the things that I think helps my son to become more resilient
is since becoming a parent, I've had a bit of a lens shift, so to speak.
So thinking about what I can do to help him be successful and set him up
for success in all areas of his life.
And one of the ways is.
By doing the modeling, making sure I'm very conscious of what I'm saying,
what I'm doing with my actions.
Um, because everything, as we say, is picked up by them.
Yeah.
Shana if you could give one piece of advice to parents and educators
about building connections with children, what would it
be?
I think if I could give one piece of advice, the.
Biggest piece of advice would be to slow down, slower than you think thing things
with children, they take a long time to, process, but just by allowing enough
time to do things, you know, , the, the world at the moment is so fast paced.
So taking the time to slow down, to really connect, to really engage, even if it's
the routine of getting in the car, um, when, when appropriate, so not when you
have to rush off to work, but slowing down, doing things together, allowing
your kids the opportunity to have a bit of a say in what they're doing and how
it's happening, even with things like we were talking about before, hopping in the
car, um, giving them the space to try and do it first before you step in and yeah.
Say, would you like to hop in, or would you like to help me if
they're struggling a little bit?
Um, I think it's a really great way, and it helps to, I guess, lay the
foundation to connect, to build respect, to have those situations where you can
model things for them to learn, to help with regulation, to build resilience.
Everything kind of, it's very layered.
So once you start with the basic, develop the connection, develop the great
relationship with each other, then you can start to do all of these other parts.
You know, just thinking as you were talking there,
you know, when you rush kids, I think very often as a teacher, you see
kids coming in the morning sometimes, and they're all over the place.
And I think that often, if I think back to my time, when my kids were
little, I think that comes from a rush in the mornings, hurry up, we're
late, you've got to have an eating, where are your things, your school
bag, your lunch, da, da, da, da, da.
And I think that just whips everybody up into a frenzy.
Yeah.
And so I think that's a wonderful advice is just to slow down.
And so I often, I've trained my kids since they were little.
The night before you put out your uniform, you put out your school bag,
you pack your bag, you put in your homework, you get yourself organized.
Right.
So that in the morning.
There isn't this big rush, which just gets everybody frazzled.
And then by the time the kids come to school, the child's already crying and
they're already, you know, heightened and dysregulated because things have
just been so chaotic in the morning.
So I think that that piece of advice to slow down is really, really,
really valuable for everybody.
And I think it helps us too, you know, If you slow down, it's such a, so much
better to start your day in a nice, calm, even keeled way than to be all
rushed and, um, chomping at the bit and everybody hurry up, hurry up, hurry up.
And, and I don't think that's really a great way for anybody to start the day.
So thank you for
that.
That's okay.
And I think people forget sometimes that
a lot of adults expect the same of children that they would have
other adults and they forget that they're younger and still developing.
And I myself hate it when I start the day feeling dysregulated and most of the
time it has nothing to do with my son.
It's just other things that have happened.
So grounding myself and making sure.
Within our morning routine, I allow enough time for us to connect first, before we
do anything, organizing myself the night before, as you did with your children.
Um, it all just helps most days for them to start.
Positive, calm and connected, which to me, you know, as you say, lays
the, you know, um, it lays the way for the day to be more pleasant.
Yes.
Shana I think we're coming to the end, but I wanted to talk to you now about
your job as a, or your role as an author.
You have published books, which I am just so in awe of.
Tell us a little bit about your books and how do they fit into this whole
thing with connection with children?
Absolutely, um, I found since having my child it just spurred a lot
of creativity and it's been such a fun journey learning all about
publishing and how to go about it.
But my first book, Mama, I See You, kind of supports the child parent
relationship when the child is newborn.
Um, and just, it's kind of like a, as someone said to me once a snapshot of
a really special moment in time when you are your baby's entire world.
So in the middle of the night, one night it just popped into my head.
And from there I ended up with.
The lovely story.
Um, I loved that time.
It was to me, magical, also tricky as we have lots of things, you know,
middle of the night, wake ups and feeds and, um, but I still loved it.
I also wanted to make sure I created.
A bottle feeding version, because relationships and connections with mothers
and children can still be developed.
It doesn't just depend on breastfeeding, so that was really important for
me to have that representation.
Um, and I think the amazing illustrations within the book really
reflect what I was trying to convey.
Cause the whole point of starting the book was to create books that support
connection, but are created with heart.
So they're created with, um, the idea of.
Relationships are special and how we can support that, which kind of led me into
my second book, which was called don't go.
And it's about Joey, the koala and how he faces separation anxiety
and how his mom supports him through this challenging situation.
and uses strategies such as, um, their close bond, reassurance, self
regulation by co regulating with her.
And it's a lovely little book.
And there's some things I do in there with my own child that kind of, um, were the.
foundation for this story to be written and I love the little illustrations
and I love how I used the animals because that's a great way for kids
to understand storytelling as well.
And I have more in the works, but time is, um, a factor being really busy.
So I'm trying to do these well and trying to take my time to create resources
that support these books for educators.
and families to use with their children.
Amazing.
You know, just again, as you speak, I think of my own life really, and I was
thinking about when my children, who are now 23 and 24, when they were babies.
Yep.
And feeding them, I was so lucky is that I did not have a phone and those times
of feeding them, first breast and then bottle, I would always, of course, even
with a bottle, hold them, feeding them.
And I just remember staring at these beautiful little faces and noticing
every day the little eyebrows coming out and the little lashes getting longer.
And it was such a magical, magical time for me and I wouldn't change that for
anything and I often now I sometimes see, you know, and it's not a judgment.
It was just just just comparing it to myself Is it just what an
what an amazing time it was Such a connection and I had no distractions.
It was just I was in the moment with my child and I sometimes I see young
mums and they're feeding but they're also on their phones and I think to
myself, it's such a missed opportunity.
You know, it's so wonderful that just that simplicity of being in the moment.
It's like when you're creating a work of art and it's just you and the medium.
It's a type of therapy and you're not spreading yourself thin.
You are just in that moment.
And I think it's such a healthy way for us to be as well, especially
when it's, you know, when you're parenting, it can be so fraught.
You're not getting enough sleep.
Uh, the kids, you know, there's so many demands, They're crying.
And then you get these special moments of silence when they're feeding.
And it's just this moment where you and your child can just be, and I
used to absolutely love those moments.
And so, yeah, that's a really, that's a treasure.
So if anybody out here is listening, and you're a young mum, put away
your phone and just be in the moment.
Because, not just for the child, but for you too, you know, I think
that's, it's always something so powerful that stayed with me.
Shana before we go, what impact do you hope that your work that you're doing
with your books that you're doing in your school, what's your hope that your work,
the impact it'll leave on the way children are nurtured and taught for the future?
I guess for me, it's rooted in why I became a teacher in the first
place, trying to make the world a better place, even if it's one child,
because it's that ripple effect.
It's, it's their self belief, how they view others, their
relationship with others.
Um, for a short period of time you develop such a close bond with the children you
teach and I think that's really powerful and I hope that everything I'm doing can
have the impact or it has the ability to support one child to feel like they
are seen and that they are valued.
And I hope it has that impact within my own, um, child and As well.
I'm sure it does because I can see that you are such a gentle, loving person
and such a creative person and I'm sure that your gentleness really impacts your
own child and those that you work with.
So I think.
everything you're doing is just, is leaving such a valuable
legacy for all the children.
So I thank you on behalf of everybody and all the people's
children that you deal with.
Thank you very much.
Sometimes, sometimes parents are often, you know, we're so busy that you sometimes
forget to say thank you, you know, and.
Yeah, I think everything that you're doing is really, really powerful.
So well done and congratulations on your books, which is just amazing.
Thank you so much.
So Shanna, thanks so much for being on Blooming Curious today.
Uh, I think it's been a wonderful conversation and a one that I
really hope touches the lives and hearts of so many people listening.
So thank
you so much.
It's been a pleasure and I look forward to chatting with you again.
Great.
Thank you so much.
I'm going to stop.