WEBVTT

00:00:03.610 --> 00:00:06.270
Today on Blooming Curious,
we have a very special guest.

00:00:06.290 --> 00:00:09.360
Veronica Green is an early
childhood consultant and a

00:00:09.360 --> 00:00:11.260
mum to a neurodivergent son.

00:00:11.270 --> 00:00:16.500
She is the power behind Cultivating
Confidence, an early years consultancy,

00:00:16.919 --> 00:00:22.790
and is in the unique position to advise
educators how to create inclusive early

00:00:22.790 --> 00:00:27.640
years experiences and environments
where children and adults can thrive.

00:00:28.070 --> 00:00:31.630
So Veronica, we are so honoured to
have you on Blooming Curious today.

00:00:31.660 --> 00:00:32.640
So welcome.

00:00:33.885 --> 00:00:34.375
Thank you.

00:00:34.375 --> 00:00:35.985
I'm very excited to be here.

00:00:36.035 --> 00:00:40.214
I'm very honored that you've reached out
and I get to share and learn together with

00:00:40.215 --> 00:00:41.905
your audience and community of educators.

00:00:41.914 --> 00:00:43.644
So I'm super excited to be here.

00:00:44.645 --> 00:00:45.145
Great.

00:00:45.175 --> 00:00:50.495
Let's kick off with you telling us
about yourself and how you came about

00:00:50.534 --> 00:00:54.614
creating your early years consultancy
and what led you to this work.

00:00:55.565 --> 00:00:57.065
Oh, that's a great question.

00:00:57.074 --> 00:01:04.345
So, um, I became an ECE in 2012, and
I have worked with, uh, children from

00:01:04.385 --> 00:01:08.705
infancy all the way to school age
in a variety of different settings

00:01:08.705 --> 00:01:11.465
from large centers, small centers.

00:01:11.784 --> 00:01:16.495
Um, I was also an assistant director
for a little while, and then I decided

00:01:16.495 --> 00:01:19.605
to operate a family day home as well.

00:01:19.905 --> 00:01:24.325
I wanted to still have my career, but I
also wanted to be at home with our child.

00:01:24.675 --> 00:01:30.595
So I, I, um, over three years, I curated
and thrifted a lot of our resources.

00:01:30.945 --> 00:01:34.425
And after we had our son, I opened
up my day home and I did that

00:01:34.425 --> 00:01:35.944
for a couple of years as well.

00:01:36.314 --> 00:01:42.365
And so during that time, when I was
running the day home is really when I

00:01:42.374 --> 00:01:46.294
found myself as an educator, cause I went
through all the turmoil and the journey

00:01:46.304 --> 00:01:49.834
of learning that our son is autistic and
going through the diagnosis journey and.

00:01:50.315 --> 00:01:55.014
being an educator and a parent and all
the behaviors that I did not understand

00:01:55.014 --> 00:01:58.554
and being so overwhelmed with how
am I going to support the children?

00:01:58.564 --> 00:02:01.334
How am I going to support my son as well?

00:02:01.374 --> 00:02:02.824
And I don't know what I'm doing.

00:02:02.824 --> 00:02:04.824
And so it was a long journey.

00:02:05.244 --> 00:02:08.654
And that's where I learned about
sensory processing and loose

00:02:08.664 --> 00:02:13.005
parts play and the Reggio Emilia
approach all at the same time.

00:02:13.385 --> 00:02:17.775
And this really changed my
perspective as to how I see the

00:02:17.775 --> 00:02:22.945
environment, how I view children,
how I viewed my role and families.

00:02:23.215 --> 00:02:28.695
And I slowly, through learning and
lots of trial and error, I started to

00:02:28.745 --> 00:02:33.885
create a very inclusive environment that
worked for the people in my setting.

00:02:33.895 --> 00:02:36.015
So the children, myself, and my families.

00:02:36.545 --> 00:02:39.815
And throughout this time,
I shared my journey.

00:02:40.034 --> 00:02:44.684
On social media, and so I always shared
all the provocations that I was setting up

00:02:44.684 --> 00:02:49.355
and the why behind them when I was talking
about our journey with our son as well.

00:02:49.774 --> 00:02:52.635
And I've always been very
open around that journey.

00:02:52.915 --> 00:02:56.135
And so that seemed to
resonate with people.

00:02:56.529 --> 00:03:00.820
And so I started to build an audience on
social media through sharing these daily

00:03:00.820 --> 00:03:05.099
experiences that I had with the children
and always my why behind my decisions.

00:03:05.429 --> 00:03:09.329
And that's what led to slowly
being asked to have people come,

00:03:09.380 --> 00:03:10.799
wanted to come see my day home.

00:03:11.140 --> 00:03:13.370
And then I got asked to
start doing workshops.

00:03:13.620 --> 00:03:14.650
And then I got asked.

00:03:14.730 --> 00:03:17.470
to write a module for
an online membership.

00:03:17.510 --> 00:03:20.980
And I did it on sensory processing
and used my whole journey with that.

00:03:21.480 --> 00:03:25.000
And kind of just over time,
I slowly got asked to do more

00:03:25.000 --> 00:03:26.739
workshops and I love doing it.

00:03:27.149 --> 00:03:31.100
And then I went full time into
consulting because, um, it just works

00:03:31.120 --> 00:03:33.130
what's worked best for our family.

00:03:33.509 --> 00:03:38.160
Uh, running a day home was amazing, but
it was really hard on my son, just having

00:03:38.170 --> 00:03:40.670
even a few other families in our home.

00:03:40.730 --> 00:03:42.670
And so we needed our home to be our home.

00:03:43.185 --> 00:03:48.115
And I thought about running a small
preschool program outside of the house,

00:03:48.155 --> 00:03:52.675
but, um, it just wasn't really a viable
option and so I went full time into

00:03:52.675 --> 00:03:57.614
consulting and I've been doing that
for the last six years and I am so

00:03:57.654 --> 00:04:02.090
honored and I will Always be grateful
that I get to inspire and support my

00:04:02.090 --> 00:04:07.500
fellow educators on a global basis,
whether it's online or in person, um,

00:04:07.529 --> 00:04:11.480
through talking about my experiences
with loose parts, pre play behavior,

00:04:11.489 --> 00:04:14.190
sensory processing, and sharing that.

00:04:14.200 --> 00:04:19.010
And, uh, that has just been an incredible
journey that I've had over the last six

00:04:19.010 --> 00:04:20.769
years doing that with the consulting.

00:04:22.580 --> 00:04:25.500
Well, that sounds like a really,
really amazing start, but.

00:04:26.335 --> 00:04:29.645
Tell me, Veronica, you know, you used
that word sensory processing and for

00:04:29.645 --> 00:04:34.794
those that don't know it, could you
perhaps just give a definition, so to

00:04:34.794 --> 00:04:39.155
speak, or for you, your experience of
what is sensory processing, essentially?

00:04:40.054 --> 00:04:42.984
Yeah, so there's a lot of
misconceptions about what that,

00:04:43.014 --> 00:04:44.284
what people think that is.

00:04:44.344 --> 00:04:46.844
Do I know, have I ever
experienced this before?

00:04:46.974 --> 00:04:50.694
And so, it's processing that,
it determines whether or not.

00:04:51.099 --> 00:04:54.139
it needs to pay attention to
it, or if it needs to ignore it.

00:04:54.219 --> 00:04:57.959
And if it needs to pay attention
and elicit a response, then it has

00:04:57.959 --> 00:04:59.859
to go, what does that response be?

00:05:00.219 --> 00:05:05.739
And so that could be, for example, is
your tactile sense, your skin, you place

00:05:05.739 --> 00:05:08.129
your hand on a hot stove by accident.

00:05:08.179 --> 00:05:12.199
It's an instant reaction to move
that hand out of the way, right?

00:05:12.199 --> 00:05:15.719
So that is your tactile, the
heat sensors on your hands

00:05:16.159 --> 00:05:17.579
feel that heat that's too hot.

00:05:17.579 --> 00:05:19.609
Your brain is instantly making that.

00:05:20.504 --> 00:05:22.534
Connection and going,
Oh, I know what this is.

00:05:22.534 --> 00:05:23.094
This is harmful.

00:05:23.094 --> 00:05:23.814
It's going to hurt me.

00:05:23.834 --> 00:05:25.654
I need to remove my hand from it, right?

00:05:26.254 --> 00:05:29.594
Um, that's very, uh, very
part of your reflexes too.

00:05:29.984 --> 00:05:33.214
But it also could be like, another
simple example I always say is when

00:05:33.214 --> 00:05:35.184
you smell fresh cookies being baked.

00:05:35.694 --> 00:05:40.674
So you're going to, your, your, uh,
olfactory sense in your nose is going to

00:05:40.674 --> 00:05:43.504
be like, there's a sensation coming in.

00:05:44.024 --> 00:05:46.214
I smell this your brain is going to go.

00:05:46.234 --> 00:05:47.584
Have I smelled this before?

00:05:48.064 --> 00:05:49.474
Yes, I know what that is.

00:05:49.514 --> 00:05:51.554
I recognize what that is.

00:05:51.604 --> 00:05:54.104
And I'm going to elicit a
response is probably going to

00:05:54.114 --> 00:05:55.654
be I want to go eat the cookie.

00:05:55.974 --> 00:05:56.374
Right?

00:05:56.994 --> 00:06:06.464
So your body, everybody processes
sensory Information 24 seven.

00:06:07.004 --> 00:06:10.564
It is not just when we're
playing with our hands in this

00:06:10.574 --> 00:06:12.564
water tables or the sand tables.

00:06:12.604 --> 00:06:15.804
It is everything 24 seven.

00:06:16.514 --> 00:06:20.934
So even for example, like when we have
our environments with the Children, if

00:06:20.934 --> 00:06:25.154
we have anything we put on the walls,
whether it's decoration or artwork or

00:06:25.164 --> 00:06:29.964
anything, if we have it filled from
baseboard to ceiling, Every child

00:06:29.974 --> 00:06:34.234
has to take in all that information
through their visual systems, and

00:06:34.234 --> 00:06:37.944
their brain has to decide, should I pay
attention to it, or should I ignore it?

00:06:38.344 --> 00:06:41.794
And if you're not giving the
eye a break, then they're going

00:06:41.794 --> 00:06:42.894
to pay attention to it all.

00:06:42.894 --> 00:06:46.394
And that's when we can create an
overstimulating environment, because

00:06:46.394 --> 00:06:50.409
they're constantly having to Go,
no, I don't need to pay attention.

00:06:50.429 --> 00:06:52.509
And it's very, it's done
very subconsciously, right?

00:06:52.569 --> 00:06:56.709
Like, it's not like we are aware of all
of that, except if you are very sensitive,

00:06:56.979 --> 00:07:02.159
it's going to create experiences for
children that they won't be able to play.

00:07:02.189 --> 00:07:06.629
They won't be able to engage in things
because they are either so overstimulated

00:07:07.149 --> 00:07:08.709
that their body doesn't feel safe.

00:07:09.229 --> 00:07:10.549
One more thing I'm going to mention.

00:07:11.369 --> 00:07:16.009
Is that it's really important to know that
sensory systems so we have eight of them,

00:07:16.039 --> 00:07:20.059
and I'm sure we'll dive into what those
other eight those other three are sensory

00:07:20.059 --> 00:07:25.119
systems develop, just like our learning
domains, we don't come into the world

00:07:25.429 --> 00:07:27.939
with our sensory systems already like.

00:07:28.224 --> 00:07:30.454
Set in stone and ready to go.

00:07:30.784 --> 00:07:35.604
So they are constantly developing, just
like our language skills, our social

00:07:35.604 --> 00:07:37.154
skills, our cognitive skills, right?

00:07:37.414 --> 00:07:42.994
And if you think about it, if you
are not feeling regulated and safe

00:07:43.004 --> 00:07:46.644
in your own body from all of that
sensory information coming in from the

00:07:46.644 --> 00:07:51.554
environment, You are not going to be
able to develop your language skills

00:07:51.554 --> 00:07:54.164
and social skills, because you're not
gonna be able to go into the block area

00:07:54.184 --> 00:07:57.684
because it's too loud, too crowded,
too much stuff going on, too bright.

00:07:58.104 --> 00:08:02.294
And so if you don't feel safe in
your body, that's part of that self

00:08:02.294 --> 00:08:06.824
regulation, feeling safe in your body
with all those internal sensations, then

00:08:06.834 --> 00:08:10.489
you're not going to be able to go and,
develop all of those other skills that

00:08:10.529 --> 00:08:12.639
we know that children do through play.

00:08:13.359 --> 00:08:17.079
So really, self regulation,
sensory processing is so,

00:08:17.109 --> 00:08:19.439
so important to learn about.

00:08:20.259 --> 00:08:24.559
And I didn't know about any of it until
out of survival, trying to understand

00:08:24.559 --> 00:08:26.879
my son while I was running my day home.

00:08:26.909 --> 00:08:30.709
I had to dive into that world and learn.

00:08:31.179 --> 00:08:34.829
about all the different unique
things that he was exhibiting that

00:08:34.829 --> 00:08:38.609
I did not understand and all of the
distressful behaviors as well and

00:08:38.619 --> 00:08:43.089
what that meant and how I was able
to make very simple accommodations in

00:08:43.089 --> 00:08:48.009
the environment that worked for him
and allowed me to support everybody.

00:08:48.559 --> 00:08:52.449
And sensory processing is
not just for children who are

00:08:52.984 --> 00:08:54.644
overstimulated or understimulated.

00:08:54.714 --> 00:08:58.234
This is beneficial for everybody
because we all have these sensory

00:08:58.234 --> 00:08:59.944
systems they all have to develop.

00:08:59.944 --> 00:09:03.584
It's just some children need
more support than others.

00:09:04.154 --> 00:09:04.724
Okay.

00:09:05.414 --> 00:09:08.094
Now I want to just say
right up front here.

00:09:09.029 --> 00:09:13.979
Is that as a teacher, I always have
felt that I have never been equipped

00:09:14.039 --> 00:09:22.749
to deal with, um, children with sensory
overload or, , sensory sensitivities.

00:09:22.749 --> 00:09:27.519
I don't feel that we've ever been taught
to  how to deal with these things in

00:09:27.519 --> 00:09:32.169
our classrooms when we're still having
to have all these other kids as well.

00:09:32.589 --> 00:09:33.009
So.

00:09:33.329 --> 00:09:36.509
I really want to learn all this
stuff from you today and I, and

00:09:36.509 --> 00:09:39.719
I know that there'll be people
listening that are also desperate

00:09:39.719 --> 00:09:41.979
for information and help with this.

00:09:42.349 --> 00:09:46.499
So you said eight senses and to me that
was already, what do you mean eight?

00:09:46.559 --> 00:09:47.829
What are these other three?

00:09:47.869 --> 00:09:49.429
Because I don't know about them.

00:09:49.799 --> 00:09:54.209
So do you want to please expand on
what these other three senses are and

00:09:54.209 --> 00:10:00.319
how we as not just teachers, but as
parents can also help these children.

00:10:01.634 --> 00:10:02.334
For sure.

00:10:02.584 --> 00:10:06.084
So I, I really, I, I'm going to answer
that, but I also want to circle back

00:10:06.084 --> 00:10:09.264
to the really important thing that
you said that you are not, like, you

00:10:09.264 --> 00:10:10.574
don't feel like you're equipped for it.

00:10:11.364 --> 00:10:12.814
That is very true for most of us.

00:10:12.864 --> 00:10:14.264
I wasn't equipped either.

00:10:14.654 --> 00:10:18.764
The only reason I went down this
path is out of survival for my son.

00:10:18.784 --> 00:10:21.814
And the reason I say it that way
is because there were so many

00:10:21.814 --> 00:10:23.394
behaviors that I did not understand.

00:10:23.754 --> 00:10:27.084
And what typically happens is we see
these behaviors as a child being.

00:10:27.159 --> 00:10:32.639
Bad, as I'm using air quotes right now,
bad, or the parents aren't on board, or

00:10:32.789 --> 00:10:35.279
they're just beyond our abilities to care.

00:10:35.539 --> 00:10:39.869
And I went through a time where
I went, well, I can't kick

00:10:39.869 --> 00:10:41.379
my own son out of my program.

00:10:41.889 --> 00:10:43.819
I have to figure it out.

00:10:44.214 --> 00:10:45.114
I have to.

00:10:45.714 --> 00:10:52.034
So that's where my educator as researcher
mindset was really helpful and I dove

00:10:52.064 --> 00:10:57.084
down plus a very supportive my own mother
bringing up the idea of sensory a few

00:10:57.084 --> 00:11:00.724
times and we can talk about the journey
of accepting that there's something else

00:11:00.724 --> 00:11:03.734
going on as well and what that looks like.

00:11:03.784 --> 00:11:08.104
We're not equipped when we leave
our, uh, academic careers, right.

00:11:08.104 --> 00:11:10.324
And we come into the
early years profession.

00:11:10.654 --> 00:11:12.124
We are not taught about sensory pro.

00:11:12.274 --> 00:11:14.584
If we are taught about sensory
play, it's about hands in the

00:11:14.584 --> 00:11:16.294
water table, and that is like

00:11:17.494 --> 00:11:18.664
It's not even close to that.

00:11:18.664 --> 00:11:22.284
But I wasn't equipped either,
so I had to figure it out.

00:11:22.494 --> 00:11:24.894
And using a lot of trial
and error and learning.

00:11:25.309 --> 00:11:29.939
That really and making making a
tons of mistakes along the way,

00:11:30.029 --> 00:11:33.059
because I had to figure it feel like
does this going to work yes or no.

00:11:33.529 --> 00:11:34.329
And then I would see.

00:11:34.619 --> 00:11:39.949
And so I wanted to just say that I didn't
really just, you know, I didn't magically

00:11:39.949 --> 00:11:41.489
just have all this information in my head.

00:11:41.509 --> 00:11:42.699
I wasn't equipped either.

00:11:42.729 --> 00:11:44.219
I had to learn it as well.

00:11:44.219 --> 00:11:48.349
So I'm trying to normalize that to be
like, no, the early years profession is

00:11:48.379 --> 00:11:51.759
not educated enough in sensory processing.

00:11:52.209 --> 00:11:54.969
It's slowly changing,
but it's not enough yet.

00:11:55.249 --> 00:11:58.749
Okay, so the other three senses,
we know the five senses, right?

00:11:58.959 --> 00:12:06.439
Tactile, visual, aural, olfactory, what's
the, I've forgotten the fifth one now.

00:12:06.719 --> 00:12:07.669
I have to see it in my head.

00:12:07.789 --> 00:12:08.329
Taste.

00:12:08.469 --> 00:12:09.449
Oh, we said aural.

00:12:09.449 --> 00:12:09.859
Thank you.

00:12:09.899 --> 00:12:10.649
I said aural.

00:12:11.069 --> 00:12:12.546
What's the other one I'm missing now?

00:12:12.546 --> 00:12:12.809
Aural.

00:12:13.289 --> 00:12:14.079
Audio.

00:12:14.219 --> 00:12:14.669
There we go.

00:12:14.789 --> 00:12:15.139
Audio, yes.

00:12:15.479 --> 00:12:16.179
Auditory.

00:12:16.179 --> 00:12:18.004
What is it?

00:12:18.184 --> 00:12:20.144
Okay, so we know those five common ones.

00:12:20.454 --> 00:12:21.764
There are three other ones.

00:12:21.764 --> 00:12:26.614
They're big words, and they took me a few
years to be able to say so eloquently now.

00:12:26.654 --> 00:12:30.444
Okay, so the first one is proprioceptive.

00:12:31.194 --> 00:12:37.164
So the proprioceptive sense is, uh, and
I'm not an OT, so this is how I explain

00:12:37.164 --> 00:12:38.804
it in, like, the most simplest form.

00:12:38.804 --> 00:12:41.484
And I learned all of this from
books that are written by OTs.

00:12:41.914 --> 00:12:47.824
So Um, the proprioceptive sense is
basically your body getting input in

00:12:47.824 --> 00:12:51.424
your muscles and joints and that helps
your body know where your limbs are

00:12:51.424 --> 00:12:56.734
in space and, um, what I like to say
is that's the example of heavy work.

00:12:56.784 --> 00:13:01.134
So pushing and pulling, running and
jumping, that constant heavy work.

00:13:01.144 --> 00:13:03.634
We know that toddlers love
to fill up a wheelbarrow.

00:13:04.164 --> 00:13:06.884
put a bunch of rocks or whatever
there is, and they're going to push it

00:13:06.884 --> 00:13:10.054
around the backyard, or a box, they're
going to things and drag it, right?

00:13:10.054 --> 00:13:11.654
They love to do those kinds of things.

00:13:12.094 --> 00:13:16.934
And for a lot of children, for most
children, that kind of heavy work

00:13:17.194 --> 00:13:19.024
is very calming in their bodies.

00:13:19.304 --> 00:13:23.084
And I think we also have a misconception
around sensory processing is that we

00:13:23.084 --> 00:13:26.754
think self regulation is equal to calm.

00:13:27.799 --> 00:13:35.009
Which calm is interpreted in society as
no movement and quietness, but really calm

00:13:35.009 --> 00:13:41.209
to me and being self regulated is being
happy and able to handle the different

00:13:41.209 --> 00:13:44.569
emotions that you're experiencing
different and all those kinds of things.

00:13:44.579 --> 00:13:45.869
That's what being calm is.

00:13:46.209 --> 00:13:48.039
And so how do children get that?

00:13:48.604 --> 00:13:50.414
They get it through heavy work as well.

00:13:50.424 --> 00:13:54.724
So it could be more active play, but
it's actually very regulating in their

00:13:54.724 --> 00:13:57.124
bodies that helps them stay regulated.

00:13:57.124 --> 00:13:59.334
They need more of that heavy input.

00:13:59.974 --> 00:14:03.204
So some children could be seeking,
which means they need more,

00:14:03.204 --> 00:14:06.129
more, more, more, more, and some
children can be more active.

00:14:06.179 --> 00:14:10.699
Avoiding, which means those sensations
are really uncomfortable for them.

00:14:10.889 --> 00:14:13.859
Sometimes those sensations
can cause pain as well.

00:14:14.099 --> 00:14:18.779
And so they might avoid experiences
like that because, um, just

00:14:18.779 --> 00:14:20.609
that's how their sense works.

00:14:21.489 --> 00:14:25.809
So the proprioceptive sense is getting
impact into your muscles and joints.

00:14:25.809 --> 00:14:29.179
So heavy work, pushing, pulling,
jumping, things like that.

00:14:29.789 --> 00:14:33.059
Then there's the vestibular
sense, and this is very much

00:14:33.059 --> 00:14:34.799
related to your inner ear.

00:14:35.119 --> 00:14:36.799
So, uh, balance.

00:14:37.229 --> 00:14:42.019
There's a term that, uh, is used
called gravitational security.

00:14:42.389 --> 00:14:46.089
So this is about you feeling safe
in your body to be able to get up

00:14:46.089 --> 00:14:48.089
and move about in your environment.

00:14:49.799 --> 00:14:54.629
And so for some children,
they might seek out this.

00:14:54.759 --> 00:14:57.959
They love to spin, spin,
spin, spin, spin, spin.

00:14:57.960 --> 00:15:04.409
And that, so that again, that active
play is actually for them calming.

00:15:04.849 --> 00:15:08.369
So for example, maybe,
oh, before I get to that.

00:15:09.239 --> 00:15:12.149
The other thing with the vestibular
sense is that you can be in

00:15:12.149 --> 00:15:18.789
like that spiral rotational, uh,
direction or more linear direction.

00:15:18.789 --> 00:15:23.619
So back and forth or side to side is
also engaging the vestibular sense.

00:15:24.069 --> 00:15:27.219
What's really helpful way to understand
is let's think about infants.

00:15:27.934 --> 00:15:31.154
When we go to comfort infants,
what do we do when they're crying?

00:15:31.214 --> 00:15:34.654
We rock them in a linear
direction back and forth.

00:15:34.674 --> 00:15:37.184
We're engaging in that
vestibular sense as well.

00:15:37.454 --> 00:15:41.644
They might be getting some proprioceptive
sense too from us carrying them.

00:15:41.644 --> 00:15:45.644
They're getting that weight on their
bodies and tactile sense as well, right?

00:15:45.684 --> 00:15:48.634
Because their body's feeling
the pressure of the senses.

00:15:49.364 --> 00:15:54.254
And so when we engage in a linear
direction for most people, because I

00:15:54.254 --> 00:15:57.334
never want to say it's 100 percent,
for most people and children

00:15:57.494 --> 00:15:58.974
that's very calming for them.

00:15:59.764 --> 00:16:04.714
So children will naturally try to
seek out the things that they need

00:16:04.774 --> 00:16:10.374
to stay regulated, but society
perceives them as not socially

00:16:10.374 --> 00:16:12.254
acceptable behaviors a lot of the time.

00:16:12.494 --> 00:16:14.184
So here I'm going to go to my example.

00:16:14.754 --> 00:16:19.849
Think about children getting ready for
Um, going from circle time to lunchtime.

00:16:20.529 --> 00:16:23.959
Typically, we send them to start,
uh, getting their hands washed,

00:16:23.959 --> 00:16:25.269
right, before they go sit down.

00:16:25.589 --> 00:16:29.309
Now, some rooms, we try to stagger
it, so there's no backlogs,

00:16:29.309 --> 00:16:30.759
but what if a line appears?

00:16:30.799 --> 00:16:33.819
A line comes, and there's a bunch
of children waiting to wash their

00:16:33.819 --> 00:16:39.389
hands, and you see a child spinning or
jumping, spinning around in the line.

00:16:39.709 --> 00:16:43.729
We see that as disruptive behavior
sometimes, but in reality, it could

00:16:43.739 --> 00:16:48.924
be that They are feeling uncomfortable
or they're getting overstimulated by

00:16:48.934 --> 00:16:52.904
having to be so close to these other
kids, the anticipation of waiting for

00:16:52.904 --> 00:16:56.824
their hands to get washed, or they're
a little bit hangry because they're

00:16:56.824 --> 00:16:59.094
hungry, waiting for lunch to come.

00:16:59.104 --> 00:17:04.674
And so spinning is their way of
actually calming themselves, but

00:17:04.674 --> 00:17:08.074
it looks like it's And I'm using a
lot of air quotes here, disruptive.

00:17:08.414 --> 00:17:12.064
There's always a reason
why behind the behavior.

00:17:12.554 --> 00:17:13.984
There's always that reason.

00:17:14.834 --> 00:17:16.824
So that's two out of the next three.

00:17:16.884 --> 00:17:20.504
The last sense that most
people haven't heard about is

00:17:20.504 --> 00:17:22.624
called the interoceptive sense.

00:17:23.284 --> 00:17:29.689
And so this is an internal sense where
it's about You being able to understand

00:17:29.689 --> 00:17:34.229
the different sensations inside your body
when you are hungry, when you are thirsty,

00:17:34.469 --> 00:17:35.929
when you need to use the bathroom.

00:17:36.069 --> 00:17:36.869
Are you hot?

00:17:37.109 --> 00:17:38.099
Are you cold?

00:17:38.369 --> 00:17:42.469
Um, do you feel, do you feel
pain or don't feel pain?

00:17:42.469 --> 00:17:45.419
Some, some people feel pain
more intensely than others.

00:17:45.759 --> 00:17:51.299
Um, and again, I always like to say
again, that these senses develop.

00:17:51.969 --> 00:17:54.329
So this leads me to the whole.

00:17:54.669 --> 00:18:02.189
The again, air quotes socially acceptable
milestone of using the washroom by a

00:18:02.189 --> 00:18:06.239
certain age and whether or not that
is developmentally appropriate or not.

00:18:06.239 --> 00:18:09.789
So there's sometimes there's programs
that require children to be using

00:18:09.789 --> 00:18:13.639
the toilets independently by the
time that they're three or because

00:18:13.639 --> 00:18:14.829
they and then they can't enter.

00:18:14.879 --> 00:18:15.189
Right.

00:18:15.659 --> 00:18:16.864
But this is not right.

00:18:17.164 --> 00:18:21.334
This is a sense that has to develop and
being able to understand what all of those

00:18:21.334 --> 00:18:27.374
different sensations are inside of you is
confusing example right as adults we've,

00:18:27.794 --> 00:18:31.194
a lot of us have learned to understand the
pain that we're feeling in our stomachs

00:18:31.194 --> 00:18:35.804
if that's if you're hungry thirsty, or if
you're hungry, or if you have gas pain,

00:18:35.954 --> 00:18:39.994
or you need to go to the bathroom right
those are all very different sensations,

00:18:40.264 --> 00:18:45.564
and we've learned How to understand
them, but children are developing these

00:18:45.594 --> 00:18:49.054
things, and they might not have the
words to be like, Oh, I feel bubbles.

00:18:49.084 --> 00:18:50.464
No, I feel stabbing pain.

00:18:50.814 --> 00:18:52.254
I feel cramps, right?

00:18:52.254 --> 00:18:55.744
Like they don't under have those
words, they're developing that.

00:18:55.994 --> 00:18:58.274
But it doesn't mean they're
not feeling those sensations.

00:18:58.624 --> 00:19:02.854
So when we ask children to use
the toilet by a certain age,

00:19:03.024 --> 00:19:04.424
they may not recognize it.

00:19:04.554 --> 00:19:07.754
what a full bladder feels like,
or when it's only partially full,

00:19:07.974 --> 00:19:12.344
or the sensation of when they need
to have a bowel movement, right?

00:19:12.364 --> 00:19:16.014
Like they might not understand what those
sensations are, yet but yet we have these

00:19:16.014 --> 00:19:19.274
rules where it's like, no, once they're
three, they need to use the washroom

00:19:19.274 --> 00:19:20.764
where they can't enter our programs.

00:19:21.334 --> 00:19:24.014
Now, and I know that's not every
program, but it is out there.

00:19:24.834 --> 00:19:27.744
Or, uh, expectations of children.

00:19:27.804 --> 00:19:28.424
You're three.

00:19:28.434 --> 00:19:29.784
Why can't you do this yet?

00:19:29.854 --> 00:19:30.244
Right?

00:19:30.264 --> 00:19:33.034
So, it's like, they have to develop.

00:19:33.214 --> 00:19:37.484
So, those are the three other
senses as well, beyond the five.

00:19:38.064 --> 00:19:42.214
Yeah, that just rang a lot of
bells for me, I have to say.

00:19:42.214 --> 00:19:46.754
So, I was just thinking back about my
own teaching practice and children that

00:19:46.754 --> 00:19:48.534
have been in my own teaching practice.

00:19:49.164 --> 00:19:54.904
So when you were speaking about the
heavy one, which is that the procept,

00:19:55.034 --> 00:19:59.544
the proprioceptive, you know, for
many teachers, and I remember having

00:19:59.544 --> 00:20:05.334
a child and an OT came in to help me
with a child and gave me all these, uh,

00:20:05.594 --> 00:20:10.414
aids that could help things like the
weighted blankets and stuff like that.

00:20:10.864 --> 00:20:12.314
But now I was just thinking,

00:20:14.414 --> 00:20:19.004
sometimes I guess those kids a weighted
blanket can be a solution to help them,

00:20:19.004 --> 00:20:23.164
but sometimes they really need to do
heavy work in terms of maybe things

00:20:23.174 --> 00:20:28.614
like push ups or, or carrying a heavy
pile of books or something like that.

00:20:28.614 --> 00:20:28.984
Right.

00:20:29.294 --> 00:20:34.624
So I guess as a teacher or as a parent,
you don't really know which one of those

00:20:34.624 --> 00:20:39.014
is best suited to that kid, unless you
actually have a go and see how they react.

00:20:39.504 --> 00:20:44.629
Uh, once you've given them that, that
task or, or that in, intervention to

00:20:44.629 --> 00:20:46.709
see was this, is this how they respond?

00:20:46.709 --> 00:20:48.589
Is this what they will respond better to?

00:20:48.589 --> 00:20:54.219
So I guess as we were talking before
recording, we're learning on the job.

00:20:54.549 --> 00:20:59.909
So as much as I've always felt
really like a fish out of water and

00:20:59.969 --> 00:21:06.149
I think really, um, I always felt
like I wasn't prepared well enough.

00:21:06.149 --> 00:21:07.019
I always felt like.

00:21:07.059 --> 00:21:10.149
Gosh, they're expecting me to be a
specialist when really I'm just a

00:21:10.539 --> 00:21:14.759
GP in this situation, you know, and
I think I was really being hard on

00:21:14.759 --> 00:21:20.719
myself because I felt so bad that
I couldn't help these children, but

00:21:20.719 --> 00:21:24.929
now I'm thinking, ah, it's just a
matter of just trying trial and error.

00:21:25.099 --> 00:21:31.749
You just try all these different things
to see which one this child really, I

00:21:31.749 --> 00:21:36.799
guess, resonates with or which one really
helps, helps this child, because I guess

00:21:37.694 --> 00:21:42.554
nobody really knows what is their
stimulus until you can find something

00:21:42.644 --> 00:21:47.674
that calms them down and when you say
calms means that they're, they're happy

00:21:47.724 --> 00:21:49.764
and they feel safe in that environment.

00:21:50.604 --> 00:21:51.324
Is that correct?

00:21:51.374 --> 00:21:52.964
Is what I'm saying right there?

00:21:53.194 --> 00:21:55.554
Oh, you have hit the nail on the head.

00:21:55.564 --> 00:21:56.434
You have got it.

00:21:56.444 --> 00:22:01.034
So that is what makes behavior
so challenging is that they are

00:22:01.264 --> 00:22:03.274
Just as unique as the child.

00:22:03.704 --> 00:22:07.024
If it was simple to be like,
here's five steps to solve all

00:22:07.024 --> 00:22:12.194
behaviors, we wouldn't have to take
a bazillion hours of PD around it.

00:22:12.204 --> 00:22:15.784
We, and you're, I don't, we're
never going to eliminate behaviors.

00:22:15.834 --> 00:22:18.614
That's never, that's never,
that shouldn't be anybody's goal

00:22:18.624 --> 00:22:19.664
because it's never going to happen.

00:22:20.144 --> 00:22:20.924
It's about.

00:22:21.314 --> 00:22:25.174
Understanding how is my environment
impacting through these different senses

00:22:25.174 --> 00:22:27.554
as well, plus my own mindset, right?

00:22:27.564 --> 00:22:31.654
Mindset plays a big role around behaviors
to my relationships with the children,

00:22:32.734 --> 00:22:37.884
but that's what makes behavior so hard
is because what works for one child.

00:22:38.149 --> 00:22:42.149
might not work for the next child, and
even within that child, what worked one

00:22:42.149 --> 00:22:46.739
day might not work three months from
now because they keep developing, so you

00:22:46.739 --> 00:22:48.889
keep having to adapt your strategies.

00:22:48.969 --> 00:22:51.549
So yes, this is very, very difficult.

00:22:51.849 --> 00:22:56.879
However, though, what I will say is
when you start to build this knowledge

00:22:56.889 --> 00:22:59.779
around sensory processing, and I
really want to reiterate that I did

00:22:59.779 --> 00:23:01.609
not learn all of this in one night.

00:23:01.899 --> 00:23:03.779
I started with one sense.

00:23:04.429 --> 00:23:08.129
Because I had some observations
from my son, and he was constantly

00:23:08.129 --> 00:23:12.109
like, he was constantly rubbing
his head on the floors of the doors

00:23:12.109 --> 00:23:16.399
and the walls, so not a distressful
behavior, but a unique behavior that

00:23:16.399 --> 00:23:17.969
we were like, why is he doing this?

00:23:17.969 --> 00:23:22.579
And it wasn't like once in a while, it
was every day, multiple times a day.

00:23:22.829 --> 00:23:24.579
And we're like, why is he doing this?

00:23:25.039 --> 00:23:28.509
And my mom kept bringing
up, um, sensory processing.

00:23:29.014 --> 00:23:33.324
Um, and just quick caveat there,
it took me 18 months to finally go,

00:23:33.324 --> 00:23:34.714
okay, there's something going on.

00:23:35.124 --> 00:23:38.914
I need to look into sensory processing and
my mom is someone who I love and trust.

00:23:39.234 --> 00:23:42.224
And that's someone who's
being an ECE and a parent.

00:23:42.524 --> 00:23:46.114
I still had a hard time accepting
that there was something else

00:23:46.124 --> 00:23:47.274
that I needed to look into.

00:23:47.424 --> 00:23:49.804
We can talk about that
more in depth, but, um.

00:23:50.249 --> 00:23:53.199
So when I was learning about the
tactile, his rubbing his head, I went,

00:23:53.239 --> 00:23:58.199
oh, he's seeking out that tactile
sensation on his head all the time.

00:23:58.439 --> 00:24:02.379
I hadn't learned about the proprioceptive
sense yet, because that's also

00:24:02.379 --> 00:24:03.879
getting that impact too, right?

00:24:03.919 --> 00:24:07.959
But I was thinking about this tactile
sense, because even though we learn

00:24:07.969 --> 00:24:12.349
information and compartmentalize,
so we learn to learn information

00:24:12.349 --> 00:24:13.639
through different senses, right?

00:24:13.639 --> 00:24:15.919
There's eight senses, so we
learn about each sense as we go.

00:24:16.274 --> 00:24:17.764
But our senses are integrated.

00:24:18.114 --> 00:24:21.534
So it's never just one sense
that's impacting things.

00:24:21.554 --> 00:24:25.374
It's about us trying to understand it
through these compartmentalized views.

00:24:26.524 --> 00:24:31.264
When I learned that this, he was
seeking it out, plus he was constantly

00:24:31.264 --> 00:24:32.844
touching and scratching things.

00:24:32.919 --> 00:24:34.189
All the time.

00:24:34.669 --> 00:24:39.159
And so my big aha moment was I learned
about the tactile sense and I went,

00:24:39.179 --> 00:24:41.079
oh, so he's not getting enough.

00:24:41.089 --> 00:24:43.949
He needs more, more, more, more, more.

00:24:44.509 --> 00:24:45.729
And I went, okay.

00:24:45.889 --> 00:24:51.359
So I DIY'd a sensory pathway where
I taped down a piece of felt.

00:24:51.549 --> 00:24:55.739
I taped down, I think some bubble
wrap, and I taped down, I think some

00:24:55.739 --> 00:24:58.149
old DVDs and a couple other things.

00:24:58.149 --> 00:24:58.519
I just.

00:24:58.669 --> 00:25:00.479
painter's tape and taped it to the floor.

00:25:00.519 --> 00:25:01.209
That's all I did.

00:25:01.209 --> 00:25:02.389
Like these little squares, right?

00:25:02.389 --> 00:25:04.039
A little pathway, a little walkway.

00:25:04.999 --> 00:25:06.409
This was around 18 months.

00:25:06.429 --> 00:25:08.949
My son, I was on a weekend,
so it was just me and my son.

00:25:08.949 --> 00:25:10.439
The day home wasn't open at that time.

00:25:10.949 --> 00:25:15.729
But he was on that sensory
pathway for about 5 to 10 minutes

00:25:15.729 --> 00:25:18.209
at a time, every 20 minutes.

00:25:19.044 --> 00:25:21.184
That's how often he was on there.

00:25:21.344 --> 00:25:22.764
He would be bear walking.

00:25:22.784 --> 00:25:24.984
He would be walk and
he was always barefoot.

00:25:24.994 --> 00:25:29.534
So he'd be bear walking, uh, walking,
crawling, running, and he'd be rubbing

00:25:29.534 --> 00:25:31.384
his head as well or just touching it.

00:25:31.794 --> 00:25:36.234
We had the most calm day that we've
ever had because that's how much

00:25:36.234 --> 00:25:41.484
tactile input and Now that I know it's
also proprioceptive, but that's how

00:25:41.484 --> 00:25:44.864
much he needed to feel calm and safe.

00:25:44.874 --> 00:25:50.644
And so my environment was not giving that
to him because he, he was seeking it out

00:25:50.664 --> 00:25:54.814
through the only way I could keep him
calm was through giving lots of massages,

00:25:55.324 --> 00:25:57.544
lots of back rubs, lots of leg rubs.

00:25:57.544 --> 00:25:58.904
And I'm like, well, I can't do this.

00:25:58.904 --> 00:26:01.404
I can't sit here and give him
a massage every 10 minutes.

00:26:01.404 --> 00:26:02.334
That's what I had to do.

00:26:02.334 --> 00:26:04.334
I'm like, this isn't working.

00:26:04.334 --> 00:26:05.374
So I was like, how am I going to.

00:26:05.629 --> 00:26:09.749
do what I promised the families and these
children and I'm sitting here and I say

00:26:09.749 --> 00:26:14.729
in our quotes again managing this behavior
that didn't work so that was very eye

00:26:14.729 --> 00:26:19.409
opening as to like how much he actually
needed and he was seeking it out and

00:26:19.409 --> 00:26:21.629
again it wasn't a distressful behavior.

00:26:22.359 --> 00:26:24.819
It was what they would call
a quirky behavior, right?

00:26:24.899 --> 00:26:26.859
Like something quirky,
something different.

00:26:26.869 --> 00:26:28.119
People would think it's weird.

00:26:28.499 --> 00:26:30.859
But I went, why is he doing this?

00:26:30.869 --> 00:26:36.419
And so I put more sensory pathways,
DIY'd them in my day home environment,

00:26:36.619 --> 00:26:40.309
so he could access it where he
needed, and the other children used

00:26:40.309 --> 00:26:42.559
it too, and he was able to get it.

00:26:42.729 --> 00:26:44.719
that tactile input that he needed.

00:26:45.049 --> 00:26:47.339
He loved having just aluminum foil.

00:26:47.339 --> 00:26:49.199
He loved a big piece of aluminum foil.

00:26:49.199 --> 00:26:50.539
And I know it's not
environmentally friendly,

00:26:50.859 --> 00:26:52.749
but it can be recycled.

00:26:53.019 --> 00:26:53.679
That's okay.

00:26:53.899 --> 00:26:54.239
Yeah.

00:26:54.419 --> 00:26:56.989
And he gave it was had
that coolness as well.

00:26:56.989 --> 00:26:59.729
So cause the aluminum foil
has that coolness to it.

00:27:00.009 --> 00:27:01.879
It's got a cool visual thing.

00:27:01.879 --> 00:27:03.379
It's got a nice sound to it.

00:27:03.379 --> 00:27:05.179
Like he just loved lying on it.

00:27:05.779 --> 00:27:09.789
And he didn't like to wear socks
or pants or things like that.

00:27:09.789 --> 00:27:10.759
And he was a toddler.

00:27:10.759 --> 00:27:12.999
He was 18 months when
I started my day home.

00:27:12.999 --> 00:27:16.909
So, um, but he needed all
of that tactile input.

00:27:17.229 --> 00:27:18.749
And so, yeah.

00:27:19.079 --> 00:27:21.859
So the only way I learned that
was from diving into books

00:27:21.889 --> 00:27:22.839
and through trial and error.

00:27:22.839 --> 00:27:26.799
I had no idea what was going to
happen when I put that little sensory

00:27:26.799 --> 00:27:28.559
path out, but I was curious, right?

00:27:28.829 --> 00:27:30.569
Curiosity is not just for children.

00:27:30.959 --> 00:27:32.849
Behaviors are a curious moment.

00:27:33.139 --> 00:27:34.179
That's what they really are.

00:27:34.219 --> 00:27:35.959
They're supposed to spark our curiosity.

00:27:36.099 --> 00:27:38.739
and go, hmm, why is the child doing this?

00:27:39.279 --> 00:27:41.049
Is the environment impacting it?

00:27:41.099 --> 00:27:42.299
Is it my mindset?

00:27:42.649 --> 00:27:44.569
Is it something that I don't know about?

00:27:44.709 --> 00:27:47.649
And it's okay to be like, why
wasn't I taught this in college?

00:27:47.669 --> 00:27:49.629
Why wasn't I taught about this topic?

00:27:49.639 --> 00:27:50.979
Because it's so eye opening.

00:27:51.479 --> 00:27:55.424
And so just through trial and
error, and over years, Because

00:27:55.424 --> 00:27:57.014
I learned each sense at a time.

00:27:57.414 --> 00:27:58.244
I really did that.

00:27:58.274 --> 00:28:01.714
And I had to integrate my information,
lots of mistakes along the way, because

00:28:01.714 --> 00:28:03.254
he'll tell you if it's working or not.

00:28:03.454 --> 00:28:04.394
You'll try something.

00:28:05.124 --> 00:28:08.194
If it doesn't, if he doesn't even
gravitate to it or want to touch

00:28:08.194 --> 00:28:11.234
it, or it doesn't calm him down,
that's his way of communicating

00:28:11.254 --> 00:28:12.734
that this strategy isn't working.

00:28:13.224 --> 00:28:15.514
And so then I'd have
to try something else.

00:28:15.864 --> 00:28:18.354
Um, but a lot of research
and trial and error.

00:28:18.964 --> 00:28:19.364
Okay.

00:28:19.394 --> 00:28:25.134
And, and, and really, um, we as the adults
and as the teachers, which is really why

00:28:25.134 --> 00:28:26.964
this podcast is called Blooming Curious.

00:28:26.994 --> 00:28:28.814
And that is exactly what you've just said.

00:28:28.834 --> 00:28:30.744
We are the ones that need to be curious.

00:28:30.804 --> 00:28:33.734
We have to be curious
about what's happening.

00:28:33.894 --> 00:28:35.134
How can I do better?

00:28:35.144 --> 00:28:36.394
How can I change this?

00:28:36.394 --> 00:28:37.814
How can I get through to this kid?

00:28:37.814 --> 00:28:39.434
How can I get this kid to be curious?

00:28:39.434 --> 00:28:42.874
How can I get this kid to be
calm or whatever it is, right?

00:28:43.394 --> 00:28:46.664
I want to just touch on something
that you, you actually mentioned it

00:28:46.664 --> 00:28:48.984
before, and that was the environment.

00:28:49.839 --> 00:29:00.090
Um, So we've got children sitting
in classrooms, 20, 25, 32 kids

00:29:00.090 --> 00:29:04.450
sitting in classrooms, and all
of them have different needs.

00:29:04.950 --> 00:29:09.530
And then within that classroom, you
will have now specific children.

00:29:09.875 --> 00:29:17.945
And increasingly so, that have,
uh, increased sensory needs.

00:29:18.445 --> 00:29:24.305
And you spoke about the environment and
how that really influences us and how

00:29:24.305 --> 00:29:27.845
that can trigger us, it can calm us down,
it can make us more anxious or whatever.

00:29:28.470 --> 00:29:33.290
I want to know from you, as an expert in
this field, if you had to give teachers

00:29:35.580 --> 00:29:39.310
inspiration and you had to give
them advice on how they would set

00:29:39.310 --> 00:29:45.080
up a room to be able to cater for
children, especially with sensory

00:29:45.330 --> 00:29:48.390
needs, what would you consider?

00:29:49.545 --> 00:29:54.925
Basics like what must teachers have
or not have I'm thinking more it's

00:29:54.925 --> 00:29:59.425
the not haves in their classrooms
to accommodate if you were thinking

00:29:59.705 --> 00:30:03.125
this is how you set up a classroom
so that you can actually accommodate

00:30:03.175 --> 00:30:06.925
all children with specifically those
children with increased sensory needs.

00:30:08.935 --> 00:30:10.145
Well, that's a big question.

00:30:10.635 --> 00:30:13.555
So I guess for me it's less is more.

00:30:14.365 --> 00:30:18.255
Yeah, there's some design principles
that we can think about as well.

00:30:18.655 --> 00:30:27.140
Um, I always like to take a very holistic
approach to things, and I truly, truly

00:30:27.140 --> 00:30:31.080
believe that the most important thing
before you change anything in your

00:30:31.080 --> 00:30:37.130
environment, you have to look at your
own mindset around behaviors, because

00:30:37.130 --> 00:30:42.660
if you have a view that children are
doing this, Instead of having a hard

00:30:42.660 --> 00:30:48.070
time, nothing you do in your environment
is going to really, it's not going

00:30:48.070 --> 00:30:49.820
to be as beneficial as it could be.

00:30:50.060 --> 00:30:54.110
So if you believe that children
are giving you a hard time, instead

00:30:54.110 --> 00:30:58.690
of having a hard time, that's the
first thing that we need to look at.

00:30:58.730 --> 00:31:02.580
And I learned a lot from Dr. Ross
Green, who's the author of, um, The

00:31:02.580 --> 00:31:05.245
Children are, uh, The Explosive Child.

00:31:05.245 --> 00:31:07.675
He's also done a documentary
called The Children We Lose.

00:31:08.145 --> 00:31:11.775
It's very, it's a, he's, he's,
he also runs an organization

00:31:11.775 --> 00:31:12.925
called Lives in the Balance.

00:31:12.975 --> 00:31:14.965
All of his information
is free on his website.

00:31:14.965 --> 00:31:15.685
It's wonderful.

00:31:16.095 --> 00:31:19.875
But he always starts with mindset
as, as well, and going, if we have a

00:31:19.875 --> 00:31:26.230
view that kids do well if they wanna,
That us as educators, we show up

00:31:26.230 --> 00:31:28.120
in those situations very different.

00:31:28.180 --> 00:31:31.860
Our motive is to make
them want to do better.

00:31:32.440 --> 00:31:36.320
So that's where like rewards, punishments,
all that kind of stuff comes into place.

00:31:36.880 --> 00:31:40.990
But when we have a mindset around
that kids do well if they can,

00:31:42.130 --> 00:31:43.640
we show up very differently.

00:31:43.650 --> 00:31:45.850
We're going to go, what's
getting in their way?

00:31:45.930 --> 00:31:47.970
What is the roadblock to this?

00:31:48.040 --> 00:31:49.200
Is it sensory?

00:31:49.510 --> 00:31:51.300
Is it the strategy that I'm using?

00:31:51.580 --> 00:31:54.640
Is it my expectations of
this particular child?

00:31:54.840 --> 00:32:00.370
Is it a learning develop a domain
skill that they are struggling with?

00:32:01.230 --> 00:32:02.890
That's that curiosity.

00:32:03.300 --> 00:32:07.780
So I always like to use four different
lenses to try and view behaviors

00:32:07.790 --> 00:32:12.005
through to guide my thinking because
It can be really hard to deal with

00:32:12.005 --> 00:32:13.945
these, to understand these behaviors.

00:32:13.945 --> 00:32:15.185
I don't like to use the word deal.

00:32:15.195 --> 00:32:16.275
That's not the word I choose.

00:32:16.675 --> 00:32:19.325
Understand the behaviors
to keep moving you forward.

00:32:19.815 --> 00:32:22.545
So the four lenses that I
always go through is safety.

00:32:22.575 --> 00:32:24.675
Does the child feel
safe in the environment?

00:32:24.955 --> 00:32:26.535
That's through the relationships.

00:32:26.695 --> 00:32:30.110
You know, beyond just a roof over
their heads and food in their belly.

00:32:30.320 --> 00:32:33.350
What's the relationship like with
this child and the family as well?

00:32:33.970 --> 00:32:35.430
Is it sensory related?

00:32:35.650 --> 00:32:38.860
Are they seeking or avoiding
within those different senses?

00:32:39.220 --> 00:32:42.220
And then as well, those
expectations is another lens.

00:32:42.430 --> 00:32:45.110
Do I have the view that
children do well if they can?

00:32:46.880 --> 00:32:51.690
Dr. Ross Green talks about that, uh,
behaviors are really unsolved problems.

00:32:52.220 --> 00:32:56.910
And when we have that curiosity mindset,
we can really dive into the why behind it.

00:32:57.560 --> 00:33:01.790
And then the other lens I view
behaviors through is, is this part

00:33:01.820 --> 00:33:03.520
of a learning skill, like a domain?

00:33:03.530 --> 00:33:04.950
Is it a language difference?

00:33:04.980 --> 00:33:07.690
Is it a social skill that
they need support with?

00:33:08.070 --> 00:33:11.410
Like that's, that's how I guide
my thinking because I don't know

00:33:11.410 --> 00:33:14.740
exactly what, and it's probably
a little bit within all of that.

00:33:15.230 --> 00:33:18.320
It's never just one particular
thing that's causing, that's

00:33:18.480 --> 00:33:19.550
creating the behavior.

00:33:19.550 --> 00:33:20.980
It's probably a multifaceted.

00:33:21.250 --> 00:33:23.720
faceted thing because human
beings are multifaceted, right?

00:33:23.770 --> 00:33:24.050
Yeah.

00:33:24.080 --> 00:33:26.480
Children are amazing human beings.

00:33:26.480 --> 00:33:28.450
They have these full experience of lives.

00:33:28.500 --> 00:33:32.950
And as much as adults are told to leave
our stuff at the door, children do not.

00:33:33.250 --> 00:33:37.410
So if they are experiencing food
insecurities, if they are watching their

00:33:37.410 --> 00:33:42.800
parents have fights at the end of the day,
or families are struggling, who is not

00:33:42.800 --> 00:33:44.730
struggling right now to pay for groceries?

00:33:44.740 --> 00:33:45.880
It's a global thing, right?

00:33:45.920 --> 00:33:46.870
Like it's insane.

00:33:47.420 --> 00:33:50.370
So children are going to bring
those things into the environment.

00:33:50.380 --> 00:33:51.600
So it's not just sensory.

00:33:51.610 --> 00:33:53.990
Sensory is one lens to
view things through.

00:33:54.740 --> 00:33:57.670
So I know I kind of went off on
a tangent here, but before you

00:33:57.670 --> 00:34:00.520
change the environment, you need
to think about your mindset.

00:34:00.610 --> 00:34:02.050
Do you have the right mindset?

00:34:02.050 --> 00:34:04.370
Because that impacts the kind
of strategies that you're

00:34:04.370 --> 00:34:05.480
going to use with children.

00:34:06.160 --> 00:34:08.340
So that's why I really
wanted to mention that.

00:34:08.590 --> 00:34:12.360
Then if you move, if you have the
view of kids do well, if they can.

00:34:13.125 --> 00:34:15.185
And I'm going to get to the why behind it.

00:34:15.555 --> 00:34:19.015
Then if you look at the environment,
you can use those different eight

00:34:19.015 --> 00:34:24.485
senses to go, well, am I providing
enough tactile, uh, stimulation?

00:34:24.685 --> 00:34:26.955
Are there different textures
through pillows, through

00:34:26.955 --> 00:34:28.525
fabrics that they can access?

00:34:28.945 --> 00:34:32.475
Um, What about, uh, like paint?

00:34:32.525 --> 00:34:34.435
Are they, can they paint on their body?

00:34:34.445 --> 00:34:35.795
Some children love to do that.

00:34:35.795 --> 00:34:38.425
It's okay to get, in
air quotes again, messy.

00:34:38.705 --> 00:34:44.635
Like, can they experience those things
holistically, beyond just their hands?

00:34:44.965 --> 00:34:49.465
Um, visually, do I have,
what do I have on the walls?

00:34:49.625 --> 00:34:51.145
Why is it on the walls?

00:34:51.670 --> 00:34:53.070
Does it need to be there?

00:34:53.310 --> 00:34:56.440
Because that is providing
visual stimulation.

00:34:56.460 --> 00:35:00.420
Again, their brains have to decide
whether or not to pay attention to it.

00:35:00.430 --> 00:35:04.980
So if our walls are filled with
pre done posters and not just their

00:35:04.980 --> 00:35:08.140
art, because it's wonderful to
have their art on the walls, how

00:35:08.140 --> 00:35:09.780
much documentation do we have up?

00:35:09.860 --> 00:35:11.220
Why is it there?

00:35:11.435 --> 00:35:14.095
because that's going to impact
their ability to focus on their

00:35:14.095 --> 00:35:17.015
play if they're too overstimulated.

00:35:17.635 --> 00:35:20.805
The auditory, how loud is the environment?

00:35:21.125 --> 00:35:24.855
Can I have quieter spaces further
away from louder spaces, right?

00:35:24.855 --> 00:35:28.755
Like usually the block and the
drama area are loud, dynamic spaces.

00:35:29.025 --> 00:35:33.045
Do I have a quiet space
available for children to go

00:35:33.045 --> 00:35:34.845
and get reprieve in their day?

00:35:35.585 --> 00:35:37.845
As adults, what do we do as ECEs?

00:35:37.865 --> 00:35:39.575
Where do we go to get reprieve in the day?

00:35:39.975 --> 00:35:40.875
We're going to be honest here.

00:35:40.935 --> 00:35:41.865
We go to the bathroom.

00:35:42.675 --> 00:35:46.535
We go to the bathroom so we can have
some peace and quiet and get out

00:35:46.535 --> 00:35:47.785
of the room for two minutes, right?

00:35:47.795 --> 00:35:51.765
It happens all the time because
we're looking for a little like, oh,

00:35:51.835 --> 00:35:53.035
we're just a little overstimulated.

00:35:53.635 --> 00:35:55.945
Where do children get
to do that in our rooms?

00:35:55.975 --> 00:35:57.215
They need that too.

00:35:57.325 --> 00:35:59.215
And some children need it more.

00:35:59.565 --> 00:36:04.545
Um, What else, uh, what
else other senses are there?

00:36:04.555 --> 00:36:05.845
They're like oral, right?

00:36:05.845 --> 00:36:06.595
Snacks.

00:36:07.325 --> 00:36:09.985
Uh, we talk a lot about
sensory safe foods.

00:36:10.235 --> 00:36:13.335
Can we provide foods that we
know that they're going to eat?

00:36:13.675 --> 00:36:16.685
Because you can't just
make a kid eat a new food.

00:36:16.775 --> 00:36:18.715
They're not gonna just eat
because they're hungry.

00:36:18.765 --> 00:36:23.595
That does not work when you are
Very sensitive to those particular

00:36:23.595 --> 00:36:27.105
textures that can make you
gag, that can make you vomit.

00:36:27.745 --> 00:36:30.655
And we have to remember,
sensory processing is not

00:36:30.655 --> 00:36:32.465
just some uncomfortableness.

00:36:33.325 --> 00:36:34.765
It can cause pain.

00:36:35.525 --> 00:36:42.270
So, an example, when I learned about it,
Your auditory part of your brain is right

00:36:42.270 --> 00:36:44.340
next to your pain receptors in your brain.

00:36:45.400 --> 00:36:49.100
So that's why, so if you ever experienced
really loud noises and it's very painful

00:36:49.100 --> 00:36:52.510
in your ears, that's because those parts
of the brain are very close together.

00:36:53.290 --> 00:36:56.350
Another thing is with the
visual thing with lights.

00:36:56.460 --> 00:36:57.670
Let's talk about lights.

00:36:57.945 --> 00:37:01.975
How bright those fluorescent lights
are, can we have more natural light?

00:37:02.255 --> 00:37:03.375
Can we have dimmers?

00:37:03.405 --> 00:37:06.795
Can we have some of the fluorescent
lights on and some of them off?

00:37:06.825 --> 00:37:08.655
Can we take some of those bulbs out?

00:37:08.695 --> 00:37:09.685
Let's just take them out.

00:37:09.745 --> 00:37:11.025
We don't even need, do we need them?

00:37:11.785 --> 00:37:13.315
Cause those are very hard.

00:37:13.315 --> 00:37:17.565
They're very harsh on our eyes
and they can be overstimulating.

00:37:17.765 --> 00:37:20.375
And when you think about that, if
you've got all your walls full of stuff,

00:37:20.375 --> 00:37:24.075
you've got all the fluorescent lights
on, you've got all these loud areas.

00:37:24.490 --> 00:37:27.220
You don't, uh, so much stimulation, right?

00:37:27.220 --> 00:37:29.650
And for a lot of children, that's going
to be too much, and they're going to

00:37:29.650 --> 00:37:31.770
walk in with their hands over their ears.

00:37:31.770 --> 00:37:33.150
They might be crying more.

00:37:33.150 --> 00:37:35.970
They might be like refusing
to go to a certain area.

00:37:35.970 --> 00:37:37.570
They're like, nope, I
don't want to go there.

00:37:37.650 --> 00:37:38.590
I don't want to do that.

00:37:38.870 --> 00:37:40.250
I don't want to wash my hands.

00:37:40.560 --> 00:37:43.240
I don't want to wear That smock.

00:37:43.540 --> 00:37:45.790
I don't want, that's all a
tactile experience, right?

00:37:45.790 --> 00:37:51.110
So it's analyzing our environment
through the sensory systems when learning

00:37:51.240 --> 00:37:53.050
about the avoiding and the seeking.

00:37:53.410 --> 00:37:56.950
And so we can talk about some really
great resources that are out there to

00:37:56.950 --> 00:38:02.410
help guide you as you're learning about
this because There is a lot of information

00:38:02.680 --> 00:38:04.880
and so you need resources to help you.

00:38:04.930 --> 00:38:08.010
One of the books that really, there
was two books that really helped me.

00:38:08.020 --> 00:38:13.150
One was called, um, The Out of Sync
Child written by Dr. Carol Kranowitz.

00:38:13.380 --> 00:38:16.800
It's a much more technical
book but it is a good book.

00:38:17.090 --> 00:38:19.520
So it's not the easiest
read, but it is a good book.

00:38:19.870 --> 00:38:23.180
The other book that I highly
recommend for educators and parents,

00:38:23.450 --> 00:38:25.820
it's called Sensory Processing 101.

00:38:26.400 --> 00:38:29.940
And it goes through all of, they have,
they have seven sentences in there.

00:38:29.940 --> 00:38:31.960
I don't know why they didn't
do their interoceptive sense.

00:38:32.455 --> 00:38:35.955
But seven senses are in there and they
have perspectives from educators and

00:38:35.955 --> 00:38:40.195
they have perspectives from parents,
tons of hands of ideas, and they

00:38:40.195 --> 00:38:42.285
go through each sense individually.

00:38:42.285 --> 00:38:46.225
So that would be a great tool
to use to like, analyze your

00:38:46.225 --> 00:38:47.765
environments through that, right?

00:38:47.765 --> 00:38:50.865
And it helps you understand some of
the behaviors that you might be seeing.

00:38:51.235 --> 00:38:54.815
And as I mentioned before, behaviors
are not only distressful behaviors.

00:38:54.815 --> 00:39:00.015
Behaviors can be running, jumping,
avoiding, um, withdrawing.

00:39:00.315 --> 00:39:01.775
Some of that can also be.

00:39:01.795 --> 00:39:04.895
You know, or even like the ones
that my son was doing, right?

00:39:04.895 --> 00:39:07.535
Like the constant rubbing of his
head or the constant touching

00:39:07.535 --> 00:39:10.905
of things, things that we might
just think are quirky behaviors.

00:39:11.430 --> 00:39:13.070
Behaviors to me are like actions.

00:39:13.490 --> 00:39:16.500
Veronica, this is such
a huge, huge, huge area.

00:39:16.510 --> 00:39:20.600
I think we need to have you on the
podcast every week or every month

00:39:20.600 --> 00:39:25.120
or something just to, because I just
feel, gosh, there's just so much to

00:39:25.120 --> 00:39:28.560
know and so much to learn that, um,

00:39:28.610 --> 00:39:29.540
it's almost.

00:39:30.345 --> 00:39:31.975
Gosh, I mean, you know,

00:39:32.025 --> 00:39:34.855
as you were talking, I was actually
starting to feel overwhelmed.

00:39:35.625 --> 00:39:36.095
I know.

00:39:36.345 --> 00:39:36.745
I'm sorry.

00:39:36.745 --> 00:39:37.755
I don't want to do that.

00:39:38.005 --> 00:39:38.775
Absolutely not.

00:39:38.795 --> 00:39:43.475
And I also thought of the environments
that I've gone into, the individual

00:39:43.475 --> 00:39:45.325
classrooms that I've gone into.

00:39:45.655 --> 00:39:52.125
Um, where I have felt, look, I, not
that I know of, I mean, who knows,

00:39:52.165 --> 00:39:55.395
I think we're all on a spectrum
somewhere, but I go into some spaces

00:39:55.395 --> 00:39:57.345
and I think I got to get out of here.

00:39:57.665 --> 00:39:59.755
It is just too much for me.

00:39:59.755 --> 00:40:01.145
It's just too much going on.

00:40:01.155 --> 00:40:02.165
There's too much noise.

00:40:02.175 --> 00:40:03.995
There's too much stuff on the walls.

00:40:03.995 --> 00:40:05.595
I feel overwhelmed.

00:40:06.015 --> 00:40:11.515
So you can just imagine what kids must
be feeling, you know, and I think as

00:40:11.605 --> 00:40:16.170
educators, I loved how you've said,
We really have to think why and I

00:40:16.170 --> 00:40:21.860
particularly took me back to a moment
where I had a very, uh, a specific child

00:40:21.860 --> 00:40:27.080
with really high needs and I didn't
even know what the hell I was doing.

00:40:27.090 --> 00:40:33.430
Okay, I really didn't, but I did realize
that this child needed his own space.

00:40:33.480 --> 00:40:36.550
And so I created a little
nook under a table.

00:40:36.570 --> 00:40:40.580
I put a net over, I put
different types of cushions.

00:40:41.230 --> 00:40:44.670
And I remember there's this one kind
of cushion that has the sequence on and

00:40:44.670 --> 00:40:46.600
you can move it in different directions.

00:40:46.910 --> 00:40:48.460
And kids love that thing.

00:40:48.940 --> 00:40:54.850
And also play things that they can squeeze
with their hands and little fairy lights.

00:40:54.850 --> 00:40:59.850
And it was just like a little safe
space, a quiet space in a corner where

00:40:59.860 --> 00:41:02.940
he could go if he felt that he needed to.

00:41:03.430 --> 00:41:07.520
And so thank God, at least I knew
that one little thing, but there's.

00:41:08.335 --> 00:41:14.115
There's so much for teachers and, and
parents to realize with, with children.

00:41:14.425 --> 00:41:17.235
And of course, it wasn't just
him that needed that space.

00:41:17.235 --> 00:41:20.515
Very often during the day, other
children would go into that too,

00:41:20.545 --> 00:41:24.725
because things became too much for
them, you know, being with friends

00:41:24.725 --> 00:41:29.525
all the time, or, uh, whatever was
going on, they needed that reprieve.

00:41:29.545 --> 00:41:31.195
as well.

00:41:31.845 --> 00:41:36.535
So I think as educators, it's so
important to ask ourselves, and I've

00:41:36.535 --> 00:41:40.795
done blog posts on that, you know,
how to set up environments in your

00:41:40.795 --> 00:41:43.985
classroom because you want them to be,

00:41:46.045 --> 00:41:49.105
you know, I have to be careful because
you want to say stimulating because

00:41:49.105 --> 00:41:52.745
we've always thought that we need to
stimulate our thinking, stimulate our

00:41:52.745 --> 00:41:57.935
minds, but actually what you want to
do is provoke curiosity, but at the

00:41:57.935 --> 00:42:00.535
same time, your environment, I guess.

00:42:00.940 --> 00:42:10.070
also has to enhance calm and feelings
of calmness slash happiness in children.

00:42:10.810 --> 00:42:15.360
So this is a massive learning
area because as I said in the

00:42:15.360 --> 00:42:20.680
beginning, we are not as teachers
taught how to handle these things.

00:42:20.880 --> 00:42:22.010
We learn on the job.

00:42:22.640 --> 00:42:29.390
So, and thank you so much for Thank
you so much for recommending these

00:42:29.420 --> 00:42:34.390
books, which I will get from you to
get the specific details so I can put

00:42:34.390 --> 00:42:36.140
them in the show notes for people.

00:42:36.880 --> 00:42:41.150
But we spoke about in the beginning,
you said about parents that even

00:42:41.150 --> 00:42:45.400
for you, it took you 18 months to
accept that something was going on.

00:42:45.440 --> 00:42:50.580
And I know that in a classroom
environment, we often as educators

00:42:50.580 --> 00:42:56.280
will see some things not quite
what we consider, I guess, Average

00:42:56.820 --> 00:42:59.780
and you would then say to parents,
look, something's going on.

00:43:00.030 --> 00:43:01.090
Have you considered this?

00:43:01.090 --> 00:43:02.220
Have you considered that?

00:43:02.250 --> 00:43:06.100
And parents, you know, and it even
sometimes things just like dyslexia

00:43:06.140 --> 00:43:12.520
or reading or language issues, you
know, and very often as a parent, we

00:43:12.520 --> 00:43:16.790
all want to believe, I guess, that
our children don't have issues, right?

00:43:17.580 --> 00:43:20.070
We all want to believe
that our kids are fine.

00:43:20.700 --> 00:43:27.230
So sometimes it takes a lot for a parent
to accept, I guess, that they need

00:43:27.240 --> 00:43:29.610
intervention, some kind of intervention.

00:43:30.160 --> 00:43:36.650
What advice do you have for educators
and how we can help parents to get to

00:43:36.650 --> 00:43:42.130
that point, but also for parents, you
yourself as a parent and an educator,

00:43:42.130 --> 00:43:43.740
you're in such a unique position.

00:43:44.280 --> 00:43:49.160
What advice do you have with respect
to seeing those behaviors and

00:43:49.160 --> 00:43:51.590
realizing that your kid needs help?

00:43:52.870 --> 00:43:53.980
Yeah, so

00:43:55.590 --> 00:43:58.510
Again, all I can do is speak from
my experience, but what I always

00:43:58.510 --> 00:44:02.180
like to say first is we have to
meet parents where they're at.

00:44:03.320 --> 00:44:08.250
It's a journey, and so we have to
consider what contributes to the

00:44:08.250 --> 00:44:15.910
ability to accept mindset, education,
um, there are cultural aspects.

00:44:16.460 --> 00:44:17.050
As well.

00:44:18.390 --> 00:44:24.450
Many cultures see neurodivergence as
something that is not, it's not accepted.

00:44:24.820 --> 00:44:28.320
So there's many different things that
we have, we can't just have the mindset

00:44:28.320 --> 00:44:32.860
around, again, if we have the mindset
that parents do well if they can.

00:44:34.080 --> 00:44:37.670
Then we show up differently for it
with them and I have the same thing

00:44:37.670 --> 00:44:41.630
with educators educators do well if
they can as well if you don't have the

00:44:41.630 --> 00:44:46.340
knowledge, then you're gonna you're
gonna I messages and redirection are

00:44:46.340 --> 00:44:47.980
only going to get you so far, right?

00:44:48.030 --> 00:44:51.050
But you're going to keep doing that
because that's all you know, so I truly

00:44:51.050 --> 00:44:52.820
believe that parents do well if they can.

00:44:53.260 --> 00:44:58.010
So if they have new knowledge, then that
might change change their perspectives.

00:44:58.440 --> 00:44:59.430
So for myself.

00:45:00.255 --> 00:45:05.025
My experience, I was in ECE
for years before I had my son.

00:45:05.435 --> 00:45:09.275
Mm. And I naively thought that
because I was an ECE being a parent

00:45:09.455 --> 00:45:10.595
would be a little bit easier.

00:45:11.705 --> 00:45:13.355
my son really changed that for me.

00:45:13.895 --> 00:45:18.815
, um, children and whether he's neurotypical
or not, completely different guy, you

00:45:18.815 --> 00:45:20.555
become a completely, it's very different.

00:45:20.965 --> 00:45:21.295
Yep.

00:45:21.805 --> 00:45:23.370
It's very different when
it's your own child.

00:45:23.680 --> 00:45:23.970
Yeah.

00:45:24.795 --> 00:45:29.895
And so, um, so I had some, I already
had knowledge and experience, right?

00:45:30.315 --> 00:45:35.865
And even at seven weeks old, my
mom, who I love and trust, I am

00:45:35.965 --> 00:45:37.905
very, very close with my mom.

00:45:37.975 --> 00:45:40.395
We actually moved back to Winnipeg
to be closer to my parents.

00:45:40.865 --> 00:45:44.155
And my mom is an early
childhood music educator.

00:45:44.475 --> 00:45:47.735
She has worked with children
her entire life as well.

00:45:48.135 --> 00:45:49.765
And this is someone who I love and trust.

00:45:49.775 --> 00:45:54.860
And at seven weeks, when I came to visit,
she was like, You know, I wonder if

00:45:54.860 --> 00:45:59.160
there's something sensory because she had
learned about this new perspective, and

00:45:59.380 --> 00:46:01.650
she goes, it should be easier to calm him.

00:46:02.020 --> 00:46:04.520
It should be a little
bit easier to settle him.

00:46:04.810 --> 00:46:07.240
And I was like, No, I think
it's just because I'm a new mom.

00:46:07.270 --> 00:46:09.630
I think it's because I
just, I'm overwhelmed.

00:46:09.830 --> 00:46:11.040
And I don't know what I'm doing.

00:46:11.530 --> 00:46:13.300
And I was she just she just let it go.

00:46:13.340 --> 00:46:17.235
She was like, Okay, And then over
the course of like, I don't know how

00:46:17.235 --> 00:46:21.905
many more months I'd be calling her
in tears at home going, mom is this,

00:46:21.905 --> 00:46:25.545
and I use these words then I wouldn't
use them now, but is this normal, mom?

00:46:25.905 --> 00:46:27.375
Is this what's supposed to be happening?

00:46:27.395 --> 00:46:30.925
And she'd be like, no, sweetheart,
this is not a typical experience.

00:46:30.935 --> 00:46:32.385
He should be easier to settle.

00:46:32.385 --> 00:46:33.765
It shouldn't be this difficult.

00:46:34.285 --> 00:46:38.945
And then she gently brought up again, I
think there might be something sensory.

00:46:38.965 --> 00:46:41.985
So we as educators do not use those.

00:46:42.005 --> 00:46:45.965
official labels of autism,
ADHD, nothing like that.

00:46:45.975 --> 00:46:47.835
That is not our jobs.

00:46:48.295 --> 00:46:51.285
We can talk about sensory needs.

00:46:51.615 --> 00:46:56.595
We can talk about, um, simple
accommodations that are required for

00:46:56.595 --> 00:46:58.395
their child to stay self regulated.

00:46:58.425 --> 00:47:03.055
I think that's okay, but we are
never to bring up The word autism or

00:47:03.075 --> 00:47:05.305
ADHD, unless maybe the parent does.

00:47:05.305 --> 00:47:08.115
And even then, I agree, that
depends on my relationship

00:47:08.115 --> 00:47:10.225
with the child with the family.

00:47:10.255 --> 00:47:12.365
But so she brought it up again.

00:47:12.585 --> 00:47:16.115
And I was like, No, I don't think so.

00:47:16.155 --> 00:47:17.665
This is probably around six months.

00:47:17.925 --> 00:47:20.145
Again, she brought it up around 12 months.

00:47:20.335 --> 00:47:23.665
And I was like, No, I don't think so.

00:47:23.665 --> 00:47:27.035
I was just doubting my own abilities
or thinking it was going to get better,

00:47:27.125 --> 00:47:32.940
you know, and then around 18 months, I
was running my day home and it was just

00:47:32.940 --> 00:47:35.830
over that we were, we had to go into
early intervention program because he

00:47:35.830 --> 00:47:37.870
wasn't walking or talking enough yet.

00:47:38.370 --> 00:47:45.430
And I was running in the day home and I
was in tears and sweating like crazy just

00:47:45.430 --> 00:47:51.210
to get my kid in a new diaper and a pair
of shoes to go out the door for summer.

00:47:52.030 --> 00:47:55.280
And I went, I have been a
practicum student getting

00:47:55.660 --> 00:47:57.490
15 toddlers into snow pants.

00:47:58.515 --> 00:48:04.175
And that was a breeze compared to this
and I was like, it shouldn't be this hard.

00:48:04.465 --> 00:48:06.055
It shouldn't be this hard.

00:48:06.065 --> 00:48:08.755
And that's when I went, I think
there's something else going on.

00:48:09.325 --> 00:48:15.435
So I saved my story because we cannot
expect to talk with parents at the

00:48:15.465 --> 00:48:19.445
end of the day when they're coming to
pick up their kid and they're busy and

00:48:19.455 --> 00:48:21.375
bring up something super important.

00:48:21.705 --> 00:48:22.675
One time.

00:48:23.875 --> 00:48:25.385
and think that they're
going to be on board.

00:48:26.155 --> 00:48:31.765
As well as those conversations, how those
conversations go starts from the tour

00:48:31.785 --> 00:48:35.595
of your center, even your website, where
they're starting to check things out.

00:48:35.925 --> 00:48:39.825
How do you talk about, how do you
handle, how do you understand behaviors?

00:48:39.825 --> 00:48:41.695
I don't like those words,
handle and dealing and managing.

00:48:41.695 --> 00:48:42.585
I don't like those words.

00:48:42.905 --> 00:48:44.205
Understand behaviors.

00:48:44.795 --> 00:48:46.065
How is your tour going?

00:48:46.075 --> 00:48:48.765
What's the relationship
that you are building with

00:48:48.765 --> 00:48:50.415
families right from the moment?

00:48:50.455 --> 00:48:53.105
Are you telling them how
awesome their kid is every day?

00:48:53.285 --> 00:48:57.815
Or you only speak to speaking to them
because they're biting or hitting

00:48:57.825 --> 00:49:00.335
or running or not listening, right?

00:49:00.355 --> 00:49:03.925
Is that if that's the only time you're
ever talking to those families, when

00:49:03.925 --> 00:49:08.305
you need to go and have a conversation
about here's some observations,

00:49:08.515 --> 00:49:12.605
we see some sensory things or
these particular things going on.

00:49:12.785 --> 00:49:14.165
Have you ever seen that happen at home?

00:49:14.720 --> 00:49:15.790
What are you experiencing?

00:49:15.800 --> 00:49:20.850
How do you create that safe environment
for families to open up and share their

00:49:20.890 --> 00:49:26.970
toughest, darkest moments with you about
how they didn't handle those situations

00:49:26.970 --> 00:49:31.700
well as parents and try not to feel
judged sitting across the table from an

00:49:31.710 --> 00:49:35.620
early childhood educator and director
because that's what they're going to feel?

00:49:35.890 --> 00:49:41.210
And so then how can we create that safe
environment for them to say, yes, my

00:49:41.210 --> 00:49:42.840
child does have 45 minute meltdowns.

00:49:42.840 --> 00:49:43.484
Yeah.

00:49:43.565 --> 00:49:46.685
multiple times a day and
I have no idea what to do.

00:49:46.685 --> 00:49:50.055
So I just hand him a screen all the
time because that's what I had to do.

00:49:51.145 --> 00:49:53.295
But not every environment is safe.

00:49:54.255 --> 00:49:58.545
So how do we build those relationships
with these families so that if that

00:49:58.545 --> 00:50:02.025
conversation does have to come,
it's a very different dynamic.

00:50:02.025 --> 00:50:05.885
You cannot expect to start having
conversations with families like,

00:50:05.935 --> 00:50:09.275
uh, if you've only ever talked
to them about tough things.

00:50:09.285 --> 00:50:12.015
Hold on, uh, something's happened.

00:50:12.015 --> 00:50:13.525
I can't hear you suddenly.

00:50:14.350 --> 00:50:14.780
Hang on.

00:50:20.880 --> 00:50:22.470
I'm, I'm, are we good?

00:50:23.900 --> 00:50:25.330
I'm still showing that I have sound.

00:50:25.760 --> 00:50:26.570
No, it's me.

00:50:26.600 --> 00:50:29.760
Something's happened to my, um, earphones.

00:50:29.800 --> 00:50:32.230
I can't, it just went off.

00:50:37.720 --> 00:50:40.630
It's just, it's not
picking up my earphones.

00:50:40.680 --> 00:50:41.310
That's okay.

00:50:41.320 --> 00:50:43.820
We'll just carry on and I'll just
put it through the Mac speakers.

00:50:43.820 --> 00:50:45.150
Can you hear me okay still?

00:50:45.570 --> 00:50:46.720
Yeah, yeah, I can.

00:50:46.720 --> 00:50:47.720
Can you hear me?

00:50:48.150 --> 00:50:52.630
Yeah, I can hear you, but through the
computer something's just switched off.

00:50:57.090 --> 00:50:57.410
Hang on.

00:50:57.410 --> 00:50:58.450
Sorry about this.

00:50:59.405 --> 00:51:02.324
Don't be sorry, text has happened.

00:51:06.605 --> 00:51:07.405
Let's have a look.

00:51:08.895 --> 00:51:10.215
It just switched off.

00:51:28.175 --> 00:51:28.925
Can you hear me?

00:51:35.255 --> 00:51:36.115
Bloody hell.

00:51:36.125 --> 00:51:36.145
Am

00:51:38.725 --> 00:51:39.455
I back?

00:51:41.415 --> 00:51:43.825
See, this is why I don't like technology.

00:51:48.125 --> 00:51:50.485
Oh, Mickey Mouses.

00:51:51.195 --> 00:51:51.865
Okay.

00:51:54.225 --> 00:51:57.015
It's probably just Gonna sound different.

00:51:57.025 --> 00:51:57.705
Doesn't matter.

00:51:57.785 --> 00:51:58.955
Let's just carry on.

00:51:59.005 --> 00:52:00.375
It's still recording anyway.

00:52:00.375 --> 00:52:01.265
We'll just carry on.

00:52:02.215 --> 00:52:05.135
Um, I didn't hear the
last few things you said.

00:52:05.185 --> 00:52:06.025
What was that?

00:52:07.175 --> 00:52:11.485
Uh, I was talking about how, um,

00:52:15.275 --> 00:52:17.525
how, how important it is to build.

00:52:17.910 --> 00:52:21.520
Your relationships with the families
right from the get go that you

00:52:21.520 --> 00:52:26.200
can't expect to have these kinds
of conversations with them without

00:52:26.200 --> 00:52:27.920
doing all the work beforehand.

00:52:28.670 --> 00:52:32.360
And we have to meet them
where they're at, right?

00:52:32.500 --> 00:52:37.130
And so it took me 18 months with some
knowledge and experience and from someone

00:52:37.130 --> 00:52:39.470
who I love and trust for my entire life.

00:52:39.900 --> 00:52:44.250
So us as educators, how long has
that family been in your program?

00:52:44.260 --> 00:52:45.720
A couple weeks?

00:52:45.930 --> 00:52:46.390
Months?

00:52:46.460 --> 00:52:47.020
Years?

00:52:47.745 --> 00:52:48.055
Right?

00:52:48.085 --> 00:52:49.845
Like, this is someone who
I've known my entire life.

00:52:49.845 --> 00:52:54.425
It's my mom, so, and I still took
18 months to get off the fence.

00:52:54.705 --> 00:52:56.735
Some families are going
to be more open to it.

00:52:56.935 --> 00:52:59.885
Some may never get there by the
time that they're in your care.

00:53:00.165 --> 00:53:02.875
However, though, the child needs help.

00:53:03.485 --> 00:53:04.955
The child still needs support.

00:53:05.095 --> 00:53:11.030
Whether If they choose to listen and when
they are ready to listen and to get a

00:53:11.030 --> 00:53:16.120
referral or whatever that looks like, we
still have to remember that that journey

00:53:16.160 --> 00:53:20.480
of getting a referral and going to see the
pediatrician, never mind, we could talk

00:53:20.480 --> 00:53:25.510
about my experience with the pediatrician
and if they believe you, and even though

00:53:25.510 --> 00:53:32.140
I had all this paperwork from OTs and PTs
and child psychologists and, and so, um,

00:53:32.945 --> 00:53:38.455
It's quite a journey to wait, to get on
a wait list, to get an assessment, and

00:53:38.455 --> 00:53:40.285
then you're waiting for that appointment.

00:53:40.555 --> 00:53:43.905
The child and the family still
need support during that.

00:53:44.295 --> 00:53:48.105
So, this is why I said earlier,
like, I had to figure it out.

00:53:48.115 --> 00:53:52.655
When I started all the behaviors,
I was not thinking about autism.

00:53:53.025 --> 00:53:55.745
I was thinking about how can
I understand these behaviors.

00:53:56.215 --> 00:53:59.295
I did not understand them and
sensory processing was a different

00:53:59.305 --> 00:54:01.965
lens that opened up my perspective.

00:54:02.515 --> 00:54:06.295
It was through us being in the early
intervention program, as I just

00:54:06.295 --> 00:54:10.135
mentioned, we had speech pathologists
come, we had an OT, we had a child

00:54:10.135 --> 00:54:15.535
psychologist come, um, and so through
those conversations and having a child

00:54:15.535 --> 00:54:21.155
development supervisor or a person come
to my house once a month, um, that's

00:54:21.155 --> 00:54:22.825
when we started to explore the idea.

00:54:23.020 --> 00:54:24.420
of him being autistic.

00:54:24.720 --> 00:54:26.140
But I didn't start there.

00:54:26.190 --> 00:54:28.910
I started with these behaviors
that I don't understand.

00:54:29.240 --> 00:54:30.730
And my mom never said autism.

00:54:30.740 --> 00:54:33.740
She only ever brought up the
idea of sensory, because we're

00:54:33.750 --> 00:54:35.470
all, we all have sensory.

00:54:35.470 --> 00:54:39.920
Now some people might get, that might
even be a triggering word because sensory

00:54:39.920 --> 00:54:43.850
things are definitely talked a lot more
about children around neurodivergent

00:54:43.860 --> 00:54:46.490
people, as we've now learned.

00:54:47.055 --> 00:54:50.885
Everybody has these sensory
systems, we all have little things

00:54:50.895 --> 00:54:52.685
that we like, that we prefer.

00:54:52.835 --> 00:54:58.575
We are all, we all have different sensory
preferences, but some people need more

00:54:58.615 --> 00:55:01.025
or less and more or less support with it.

00:55:01.335 --> 00:55:01.585
Yeah.

00:55:01.645 --> 00:55:02.785
That's basically what it is.

00:55:02.785 --> 00:55:04.295
That's what we can focus on.

00:55:04.695 --> 00:55:05.225
Okay.

00:55:06.265 --> 00:55:11.575
Veronica, before I really do think
that I, we need to have another episode

00:55:11.605 --> 00:55:15.835
because there's just, this is such
a massive field and I really believe

00:55:15.835 --> 00:55:19.495
that we as educators and parents
really need all the help we can get.

00:55:19.505 --> 00:55:21.775
So I'd love to have you back on.

00:55:22.715 --> 00:55:28.965
But before we go, can you give some
help to teachers and how they balance

00:55:28.965 --> 00:55:33.585
the needs of sensory sensitive or
neurodivergent children with the rest of

00:55:33.585 --> 00:55:39.860
the classroom so that All students can
be engaged without feeling overwhelmed.

00:55:40.410 --> 00:55:45.140
Is there advice that you can leave
teachers with in how to, to handle

00:55:45.190 --> 00:55:47.670
all these children simultaneously?

00:55:48.240 --> 00:55:50.100
What, what advice would you give us?

00:55:50.710 --> 00:55:53.300
Yeah, that's a great
question because it is hard.

00:55:53.300 --> 00:55:56.160
So I always like to take a
very holistic view to things.

00:55:56.710 --> 00:56:00.980
First and foremost, you need to take
care of yourself as an educator.

00:56:01.335 --> 00:56:03.655
You need to be able to stay
self regulated as well.

00:56:03.675 --> 00:56:06.855
If you are not regulated, you're not
going to be able to show up in those

00:56:06.875 --> 00:56:10.825
moments and lean into your values,
lean into the kind of educator that you

00:56:10.825 --> 00:56:12.715
want to be if you are not regulated.

00:56:13.005 --> 00:56:15.895
So taking care of yourself
is very important.

00:56:16.355 --> 00:56:20.785
Um, the next thing would be,
is that mindset piece, right?

00:56:20.805 --> 00:56:24.085
Making sure that I'm viewing children
as that they are having a hard

00:56:24.085 --> 00:56:26.195
time and not giving me a hard time.

00:56:27.085 --> 00:56:35.680
Um, looking at your environment,
And how is it providing stimulation?

00:56:35.940 --> 00:56:37.070
Is it too much?

00:56:37.110 --> 00:56:37.960
Too little?

00:56:38.080 --> 00:56:41.770
What simple adaptations can I, can I do?

00:56:41.930 --> 00:56:43.670
I did not spend a ton of money.

00:56:43.700 --> 00:56:45.520
I really DIY'd a lot of it.

00:56:45.520 --> 00:56:48.800
I slowly invested in some
pieces that did work.

00:56:49.280 --> 00:56:51.970
Um, but I did not spend
a lot of money at first.

00:56:51.970 --> 00:56:53.750
Knowledge really is power.

00:56:53.800 --> 00:56:54.680
It really is.

00:56:55.040 --> 00:56:57.900
Um, there was one other
thing I wanted to do.

00:56:58.210 --> 00:56:59.530
It all popped into my head.

00:56:59.580 --> 00:57:01.720
Um, so the environment.

00:57:03.910 --> 00:57:05.220
Oh, there was one more thing.

00:57:06.510 --> 00:57:08.250
Oh, the other thing.

00:57:08.850 --> 00:57:10.110
Very, very important.

00:57:10.970 --> 00:57:15.210
It is not favoring a child to provide.

00:57:15.630 --> 00:57:19.110
the resources that they need to develop.

00:57:20.270 --> 00:57:24.380
Oftentimes we think when we're in
group care, whatever that size looks

00:57:24.380 --> 00:57:28.710
like, is that if we're doing it for
one, we need to do it for everybody.

00:57:29.120 --> 00:57:30.110
That is not true.

00:57:30.880 --> 00:57:34.440
Individual needs are how
the world goes, right?

00:57:34.440 --> 00:57:37.930
We don't want to be generalizing, we
don't want to make assumptions because

00:57:37.930 --> 00:57:40.080
that leads to biases and not proper care.

00:57:40.470 --> 00:57:45.330
When we view children as
individuals and we provide what

00:57:45.330 --> 00:57:47.840
they specifically need to develop.

00:57:47.860 --> 00:57:52.200
Like example, would we give, we're not
going to give everybody a wheelchair,

00:57:52.280 --> 00:57:55.280
but we're going to give the child
that needs a wheelchair, a wheelchair.

00:57:56.020 --> 00:58:02.790
So it's not favoring giving them the
resources that they need to develop.

00:58:04.280 --> 00:58:09.330
My son was not developing his language
skills, his social skills, his cognitive

00:58:09.330 --> 00:58:11.460
skills, because he was so dysregulated.

00:58:12.390 --> 00:58:17.320
He was not able to go and play
because he felt so unsafe in his body.

00:58:17.910 --> 00:58:21.700
Your sensory nook that you were
describing, I did that for my son as well.

00:58:22.020 --> 00:58:26.025
And that was his safe Place the
other children respected it.

00:58:26.365 --> 00:58:30.065
They knew they could go and play there,
but they also respected that that was his

00:58:30.065 --> 00:58:32.415
space if he needed to be alone as well.

00:58:33.085 --> 00:58:38.565
And so it's not favoring when I'm
creating an environment that suits the

00:58:38.565 --> 00:58:40.085
needs of the people that are in it.

00:58:40.575 --> 00:58:44.405
And when I did that, when he had his
safe place and the things that he needed.

00:58:44.715 --> 00:58:51.685
it freed up my time and to stop managing
behaviors and go and be able to actually

00:58:51.695 --> 00:58:56.355
support and facilitate the play for
all children, because my environment

00:58:56.595 --> 00:59:02.265
and my mindset started to work together
instead of against me, which is really

00:59:02.265 --> 00:59:06.705
leaves me in that dealing and managing
aspect instead of supporting and

00:59:06.705 --> 00:59:11.475
facilitating how I can put my mindset,
the environment to all working together.

00:59:12.095 --> 00:59:17.095
And that's when we slowly started to
find our way is when I was able to make

00:59:17.095 --> 00:59:21.825
simple accommodations and not seeing
it as favoring because it was my son.

00:59:21.825 --> 00:59:23.005
Sometimes I get asked that.

00:59:23.335 --> 00:59:24.425
I'm like, I'm not favoring.

00:59:24.455 --> 00:59:26.265
I'm providing what he needed.

00:59:26.285 --> 00:59:28.005
And I would do that for any other child.

00:59:29.335 --> 00:59:30.265
Thank you very much.

00:59:30.285 --> 00:59:32.595
That is really good advice.

00:59:33.355 --> 00:59:38.205
And I love what you just said about
mindset and I think that is really

00:59:38.205 --> 00:59:42.055
important and that's the one thing that
perhaps sometimes holds us back is that

00:59:42.055 --> 00:59:47.515
some of us don't stop and just have
those thoughts and ask those questions

00:59:47.555 --> 00:59:50.175
as to why and what should I be providing.

00:59:50.515 --> 00:59:51.095
I love that.

00:59:51.930 --> 00:59:57.240
Veronica, I am definitely hopefully
with your, uh, if you agreed, getting

00:59:57.240 --> 01:00:02.430
you back, uh, to speak more about
this topic, but I'd love you to just

01:00:02.440 --> 01:00:07.570
tell people where can they get hold of
you and how do you help them on your

01:00:07.570 --> 01:00:12.030
website, just give them all those details
and, and, and what do you provide for

01:00:12.080 --> 01:00:14.120
educators in the, in terms of help?

01:00:15.690 --> 01:00:18.620
Yeah, so I have an extensive website.

01:00:18.630 --> 01:00:21.050
It's at cultivatingconfidence.

01:00:21.060 --> 01:00:26.170
ca. So there's a blog with lots of
information, more on sensory processing,

01:00:26.490 --> 01:00:30.730
behaviors, even connected to sensory
processing and like planning and things

01:00:30.730 --> 01:00:33.360
like that, because it benefits everybody.

01:00:33.570 --> 01:00:37.230
Um, I have lots of free
resources on my website as well.

01:00:37.230 --> 01:00:41.280
I have like a free guide around behaviors
that talks about those four different

01:00:41.280 --> 01:00:42.800
lenses that I was talking about.

01:00:43.270 --> 01:00:44.800
So I'm all about providing.

01:00:44.990 --> 01:00:49.890
Uh, supportive tools and training
for ECEs so that they can.

01:00:50.395 --> 01:00:55.345
Feel confident in what they're doing
and use a childhood approach and

01:00:55.495 --> 01:01:03.565
know who they are as educators and
feel inspired and supported to keep

01:01:03.575 --> 01:01:05.485
growing in their own practice as well.

01:01:05.705 --> 01:01:09.045
And I also love talking about
Loose Parts Play, so you'll find

01:01:09.055 --> 01:01:10.585
lots of stuff on my website.

01:01:10.775 --> 01:01:14.665
But there's also connections between
loose parts play and sensory processing.

01:01:14.695 --> 01:01:17.555
So, so yeah, so there's
lots of stuff there.

01:01:17.555 --> 01:01:21.625
I said, there's a website has lots, and
then you can find me on social media

01:01:21.635 --> 01:01:28.105
as well on Instagram and Facebook,
uh, cultivating confidence as well.

01:01:28.625 --> 01:01:32.545
And I'll leave all the links
in the show notes so everybody

01:01:32.545 --> 01:01:33.615
can get hold of you there.

01:01:34.125 --> 01:01:36.995
Veronica, thank you so much for
being on Blooming Curious today.

01:01:37.015 --> 01:01:43.815
It's been an amazing journey to learn more
about how we as educators and parents can.

01:01:44.885 --> 01:01:45.825
Understand.

01:01:46.065 --> 01:01:48.265
I had to be careful about that
word that I was going to use.

01:01:48.525 --> 01:01:51.435
It can understand children
with different needs.

01:01:51.445 --> 01:01:53.415
So thank you so much for sharing with us.

01:01:54.465 --> 01:01:58.335
So thank you so much for sharing
this with all of us today.

01:01:58.395 --> 01:01:59.685
I really appreciate it.

01:01:59.685 --> 01:02:04.279
And I'm sure that many readers appreciate
you talking about this as well.

01:02:04.610 --> 01:02:05.720
Did I just say readers?

01:02:06.050 --> 01:02:11.380
And I'm sure many listeners would
appreciate you talking about this as well.

01:02:12.930 --> 01:02:13.720
So thank you.

01:02:13.810 --> 01:02:15.150
Thank you so much for having me.

01:02:15.830 --> 01:02:16.920
You're so welcome.

01:02:17.420 --> 01:02:18.860
I am going to stop recording now.