WEBVTT

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Today on Blooming Curious, we welcome
Victoria Crosson of Learning by Inquiry.

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Victoria is a Canadian inquiry educator
who's passionate about inquiry based

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learning and helping kids discover
their passions and interests.

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Victoria is passionate about
helping children develop lifelong

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skills like critical thinking,
collaboration, and perseverance.

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So Victoria, welcome to Blooming Curious.

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Very happy to be here.

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Thank you for having me.

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Absolute pleasure.

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And for those people listening, I found
Victoria online, about a year ago,

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I'd say, and Victoria has a fabulous
resource online, which I'm sure she'll

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tell you all about later, but Victoria
today is the absolute perfect person

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for us to talk about inquiry and

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something even more special that
is very much part of an inquiry

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teacher's, strategy kit  that  inquiry
teachers can use when teaching.

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So I want to kick off, Victoria,
can you share something about your

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teaching journey and how you came
to embrace inquiry based learning?

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Sure.

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Yeah.

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Um, so formally, I, Took a
ConEd program in, in 2008 and,

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and finished that in 2013.

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, and from there I sort of had a, a
mixed bag of experiences in, um,

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public and private schools, both
here in Canada and , in England.

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Um, so when I graduated, . I started
working for a local, uh, international

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college and I did some ESL summer camp
work with them and then shortly after

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that I was whisked away to,  England
and the national curriculum there

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is so vastly different from what I
learned about in my Con Ed program and

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it was really there that I started.

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It was sort of very eye opening for me to
see some of the similarities that existed

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but also how starkly different their
curriculum is and how they teach students

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and sort of, you know, how their program
is in terms of what they expect from their

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students and how they go about actually,
um, testing their students and, and

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seeing how well they've been successful.

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And really, my, my journey to becoming
a teacher started so young, actually,

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um, with my, my little sister who I
noticed would struggle a lot with, , with

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her homework, especially math, right?

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We all have a story of, you know, sitting
at a kitchen table with our parents

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and trying to do, like, math homework.

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Like, I feel like everybody has
that kind of a funny story, right?

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And I noticed so often that she
would struggle with it and, and so.

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Um, I thought to myself, like, I wish
there was a way for me to help her and a

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way to make this make sense for her and
for her to not hate the subject, right?

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And, um, so that was really something
we laugh about now, but something

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that really sparked my interest in
teaching and, um, You know, contrast

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that with me being in England.

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I saw a lot of the same
struggles with students.

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You know, they just weren't getting
what was being taught to them.

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It wasn't being taught in a way that I
felt was really benefiting the students.

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Um, maybe in terms of, you know, writing
a test and preparing for a test, but

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it's, uh, didn't really give them
the skills that I thought were really

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important, like critical thinking and
collaboration and things like that.

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And,  They just weren't engaged.

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And so I thought, how can I, without
disrupting what the school has going

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and without disrupting the national
curriculum, how can I sort of

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build this curiosity with students?

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How can I make them feel comfortable
with what they're doing, but present

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it in a way that gives them a
little bit more choice, a bit more

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ownership, um, and helps them to,
to feel confident to be curious.

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And it was there that I found they just
didn't have the time or the experience

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with fostering those skills and, and
being encouraged to ask questions

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and investigate their curiosity.

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Um, and I think it's important too
to remember that inquiry is not

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something that you just tack on, you
know, it's not just something that

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you do on in an afternoon, right?

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It's, it's a mindset.

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It's something that you have to cultivate.

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It takes time, but I think, what works
with inquiry is that students are just so

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naturally curious and they want to Take an
idea that they have and just go with it.

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And so it's not something that
you can just condense into a day

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and say, oh you've done inquiry,
you know, congratulations.

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It's it's definitely something that a
lot of students aren't used to but once

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you sort of say, it's okay to be curious,
it's okay to, um, to explore your thinking

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and your questions, then that really,
like, opens the door to what students

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are really capable of, and it's such a
foundation for them to really build on the

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things that are important, in my opinion.

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A few things that you said there,
like inquiry isn't just something

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you tack on, it's a mindset.

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I think that's something that
I've been talking a lot about.

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But I'm curious as to, you said you found
the system in England really, really

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different to what you were used to.

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So, do you think that the system
was just, is it vastly different?

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Is there inquiry already going on
in the system that you were used

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to, or did you just find that the
English system, you said they were

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very  into, I guess, assessment
and seeing what kids can do, right?

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Was that your experience there?

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Yeah,  like I said , there are a
lot of similarities in terms of

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what they're expected to learn and
how they test and things like that.

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But, um, one thing that really stuck
out to me was, um, a few things.

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Really, I think what was really
stark was, was just the emphasis

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that they put on testing and how
important rigorous testing is.

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And it's, it's almost ingrained in them
from a young age that when they do their

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SATs tests, At the end of, uh, year six,
for example, basically all the way back

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uh, you know, year five, year four, year
three, it is ingrained in their head

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that they are preparing for the SATs
and the SATs are the be all end all of,

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you know, their high school and, you
know, whether they go on to do their A

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levels in specific courses or whatever.

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That in itself is a different system
than what we use in Ontario, but I

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found that the, , the strictness and the
structure and the teaching to the test.

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is so much more apparent
in the national curriculum.

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And that's not to say that in Ontario
there is no testing because there is.

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We have EQAO, we have the
literacy test in grade 10.

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, But I, I found that in my experience
in Canada,  especially with student

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teaching to finish my program, if a
student had a question or they wanted to

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know a bit more about something, there
was a little bit more flexibility, um,

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you know, for the teacher to sort of
veer off topic for a little bit and say,

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Oh, why, you know, why do you ask that?

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What is what's prompting that curiosity?

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And you have the time to sort of branch
off and explore it a little bit, as long

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as you sort of come back to the topic
that you were, , talking about or the

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activity that you're doing with them.

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It was okay.

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Whereas in England, um, and this
could have just been something

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that was a little bit more
particular to the school I was at,

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but I found that if a student had a
question about something or wanted to

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know more, there really wasn't time in
the prescribed allotted period to do that.

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You know, if math was an hour and
15 minutes, you had to allocate

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10 minutes for this, 10 minutes
for this, by 20 minutes, they

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have to have this and this done.

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And it just simply didn't
work for a lot of students.

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And it was very prescribed and it was
sort of, you know, I would hear them

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ask questions and I thought, I'm going
to have to make a mental note of this

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and come back to it because I just
don't have the time to look at it now.

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But unfortunately, as you know,
it's kind of hard to go back to that

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and try and get that spark again,

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because by that point, they're
like, well, I forgot about it, or,

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you know, math is done now, right?

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Yeah, it's actually quite frightening
and scary how, as educators, we're often

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just so driven by the curriculum and
the content that we have to teach, that

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that curiosity is pushed to one side.

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And then we wonder why and I think Sir,
Ken Robinson said that so wisely, is that

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schools were killing kids' creativity, but
I think schools were also killing kids'

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curiosity in our quest to make these very
academic children perform to a test, , and

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that's something that has always concerned
me because I think that curiosity is

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far more important than a test score.

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Test scores, I guess, at the end of
the time when you have to graduate

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and you want to go to university
or further study, I guess, you

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know, you need that test score.

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But I think you're not going to get that
test score anyway, unless you're curious.

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And very often if you're teaching
to the test, you study for

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the test and we all did it,

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I know I did it.

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You've written the test and you don't
remember a thing afterwards, you know,

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but it's those things that you do.

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It's those experiences that you have
when you go through the process of

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finding out that you actually remember.

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And so, maybe at some point as we
go on this mission to encourage

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others to embrace this way of
teaching, hopefully that will change.

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Victoria, just, just tell me here.

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Do you think there are other things also
that come into play when we consider

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the difference between an inquiry
based, for , want for a better word,

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an inquiry based experience versus a
traditional non inquiry based experience?

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I think, yeah, I think that,
, there's a few key differences.

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Just thinking about an experience I
had, um, when I taught at a Montessori

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school when I came back from England.

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I found, fortunately, I had a great
experience, um, in both England

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and at the Montessori school.

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What was great about the Montessori
school is that , we had, obviously,

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we had to teach the students,
but we didn't have to adhere so

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rigidly to , The Ontario curriculum.

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So with the Ontario curriculum and inquiry
learning, I find that when I would teach

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with an inquiry approach,  of course, the
curriculum would inform my planning, and

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I would take a lot of my, my topics and my
big ideas and, you know, things I really

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wanted the students to know, and I would
sort of plan them in, but they wouldn't be

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planned in so that the students would have
to, you know, achieve a certain objective

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by a certain date or anything like that.

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Um, what I find is the
biggest difference between.

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The Ontario curriculum and teaching it in
a traditional way versus an inquiry way

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is that the students hit their objectives
in an inquiry in a much more natural way.

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Um, and I think that's, that's due
to the interconnectedness in inquiry

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where, you know, a student may be
investigating something that interests

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them, but they find that they end up
investigating different facets of that

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initial question or that initial
curiosity, and it actually  end up

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learning more and touch on a lot
of different subjects than what

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they originally set out to do.

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Like, you know, for example, if a
student is really interested in, in

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oceans, like I had a student, um, who
was really interested in, in climate

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change and what it was doing to the
oceans and what it was doing to, you

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know, the coral reefs, for example.

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And so he sort of investigated
why that's happening and ways that

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we can prevent it practically.

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And he ended up learning not just
about preserving the oceans, but

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also about how companies like oil
companies, for example, like what,

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how do they operate in the ocean?

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What is their impact on the ocean?

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Um, what are the impacts of things like
traffic and congestion and pollution?

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And so it went from just focusing on
preserving the ocean to learning a lot

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more about, you know, business concepts
and learning about you know, environmental

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protections and science concepts, you
know, he learned about , the water cycle

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and how that contributes to, you know,
if, if something's arrived there, how does

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that impact the water temperatures and
how much rain we get, things like that.

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And so with inquiry, I feel like what
they're learning is much more organic.

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It's much more natural.

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But they're still hitting the
objectives that they need to.

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So we have to look at that and think
there's a better way to teach students.

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There's a, there's a way to get them
to, to learn what we want them to,

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but in a way that gives them ownership
and, and it's something that's in tune

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with what they're interested in and
they feel like they, they have the

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authority and it gives them confidence.

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Right.

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Totally correct.

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I think also as educators, do you
think that sometimes we struggle

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as well to think cross curricula,
that multifaceted approach?

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Because I think that sometimes we box
all the subjects into one little box.

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You know, this is what we do in science.

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This is what we do in, um, social studies.

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This is what we do in math.

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This is what we do in art.

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And I think sometimes we forget
that life is integrated and

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Inquiry is also integrated.

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So you can teach your science and your
English and your maths all together.

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It's not, you know, Jessica Vance always
says it's not, um, an and or approach.

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It's a, what does she say?

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It's a, it's an and and more
approach or something like that.

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It's, it's not a choice
between one or the other.

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You can actually have it all right.

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And I think if we can get through to
people so that they can understand

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it, when you are teaching this
multidisciplinary way, reaching a

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variety of subjects, you can actually
also meet the outcomes of all these

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other subjects by doing one task.

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Like that child would have been
doing probably writing a report,

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perhaps, you know, including
learning, the skills he needs.

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Where do you look for answers?

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, The kind of questions
that you have to set.

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So there's just so many
skills that come with that.

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As opposed to, okay, we're just going to,
I'm going to give you the information.

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Here's the information on,
I don't know, coral reefs.

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And then you're just going to regurgitate
that and write a report on that.

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I mean, that's not engaging.

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So I think that does need to change.

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And I love how that is changing
and that you've seen that.

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So that's, that's really, I think,
a step in the right direction.

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Victoria, provocations and invitations.

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This is something that I,  know that
is part of an inquiry classroom.

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It's something that I've seen a
lot in your work, what you do.

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You talk a lot about,
provocations and invitations.

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And I wondered if you could for our
listeners explain the difference, because

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I often think that there is some confusion
between a provocation and an invitation.

00:15:49.935 --> 00:15:53.965
So could you explain the
difference between those two?

00:15:53.995 --> 00:15:57.995
And when does one decide whether
you're going to use a provocation

00:15:57.995 --> 00:16:02.775
or an invitation, especially in an
elementary or an early childhood setting?

00:16:03.655 --> 00:16:04.715
That's a really good question.

00:16:05.105 --> 00:16:09.045
Um, you know, I find that they're very
similar and I think that might be part

00:16:09.045 --> 00:16:13.495
of the reason why,  people can't really
differentiate or they're just not sure,

00:16:13.495 --> 00:16:17.185
like, what is the actual difference,
um, because they are so similar.

00:16:17.575 --> 00:16:23.785
In my opinion, an invitation is something
that encourages students to engage in a

00:16:23.785 --> 00:16:26.695
specific type of play or, or activity.

00:16:27.035 --> 00:16:28.165
Um, to me, it's.

00:16:28.460 --> 00:16:32.130
It's something that encourages
a student to engage with

00:16:32.130 --> 00:16:33.280
something that you've set up.

00:16:33.670 --> 00:16:36.220
So it's a really good way
to introduce a new concept.

00:16:36.680 --> 00:16:41.990
Um, and I'll, I'll go through a couple
examples in a sec.  On the other hand,

00:16:42.130 --> 00:16:49.890
a provocation is, to me it's more
like, You're provoking curiosity, like

00:16:49.890 --> 00:16:53.240
I sort of hear that word and I think
of the first few letters and I think

00:16:53.410 --> 00:16:55.520
provocation, you're provoking something.

00:16:55.720 --> 00:16:57.340
It's about inviting a response.

00:16:57.640 --> 00:17:02.140
Yeah, like, like stimulating imagination
and creativity  so an example of an

00:17:02.140 --> 00:17:08.400
invitation, um, so like, let's say that
you, um, you're doing a new unit on

00:17:08.520 --> 00:17:12.590
the environment or nature or something
like that, you could set up a table

00:17:12.600 --> 00:17:18.820
with, um, you know, rocks with flowers,
twigs, shells, and you could write a

00:17:18.820 --> 00:17:23.770
prompt on, , a whiteboard or, or, you
know, a lot of people do these really

00:17:24.435 --> 00:17:29.145
beautiful aesthetic, uh, little signs
on the table that invite the student,

00:17:29.185 --> 00:17:33.235
and, you know, it says something
like, what can you create with nature?

00:17:33.785 --> 00:17:38.335
And in this scenario, the students
have an objective, like a specific

00:17:38.805 --> 00:17:43.475
kind of skill or activity that
they're intending to explore.

00:17:44.245 --> 00:17:48.605
And a lot of times, , you would see
this in like early childhood years or

00:17:48.605 --> 00:17:53.775
younger grades when you want students to
practice fine motor skills, for example.

00:17:54.280 --> 00:17:58.730
So they're using something that
you've provided, in this case twigs or

00:17:58.730 --> 00:18:00.850
flowers, and they're creating something.

00:18:00.850 --> 00:18:03.500
It doesn't matter what they
create, but they're using those

00:18:03.950 --> 00:18:08.110
objects in a purposeful way, right?

00:18:08.600 --> 00:18:14.510
Whereas provocations, I find, I like to
use them more with older students just

00:18:14.510 --> 00:18:19.370
because they're a bit more open ended,
um, and you use your students interests

00:18:19.690 --> 00:18:20.720
as a starting point.

00:18:20.730 --> 00:18:24.230
That's something that I like to make
sure that I'm always doing is taking

00:18:24.270 --> 00:18:28.860
what they're interested in and sort of
using that as a, as a starting point.

00:18:28.950 --> 00:18:31.390
And that's sort of their spark, right?

00:18:32.040 --> 00:18:37.320
And,  so for example, like say you were
starting a unit or investigation, um,

00:18:37.410 --> 00:18:42.900
into structures or forces or something
like that, um, setting up a table

00:18:42.910 --> 00:18:47.270
or a floor space kind of similar to
an invitation with, , like building

00:18:47.270 --> 00:18:52.470
materials for students to tinker with,
or maybe some blueprints of a famous,

00:18:52.480 --> 00:18:54.535
uh, Skyscraper or something like that.

00:18:54.905 --> 00:19:00.985
, You may have those hanging around and you
sort of, um, provoke them to do something

00:19:00.985 --> 00:19:05.085
with those that you don't have to
suggest that they recreate the structure.

00:19:05.085 --> 00:19:07.745
You don't have to suggest that
they build something specific.

00:19:07.775 --> 00:19:12.835
But when you leave those things out,
or you create an area where they are

00:19:12.835 --> 00:19:18.840
exposed to, you know, those materials
or books or photos, You're , provoking

00:19:18.840 --> 00:19:20.960
them saying like, you know, what,
what are you going to do with this?

00:19:20.990 --> 00:19:23.590
Like, is there something here
that sparks your interest?

00:19:23.690 --> 00:19:27.920
And so to me, that's
kind of the difference.

00:19:27.940 --> 00:19:30.810
Invitations are a little bit
more purposeful in my opinion.

00:19:30.810 --> 00:19:35.780
They're a bit more, to me, they're
geared more towards younger students.

00:19:35.780 --> 00:19:38.530
Although there's no reason you
can't use them with older students.

00:19:38.600 --> 00:19:44.490
But I find that when you give a student
a specific activity or skill or, or,

00:19:44.690 --> 00:19:49.870
, Invitation younger students tend to
respond better to that in my experience.

00:19:50.460 --> 00:19:53.560
Um, whereas provocations
are a bit more open ended.

00:19:53.700 --> 00:19:58.080
Students can sort of take them a little
bit further because there's no specific

00:19:58.740 --> 00:20:00.530
objectives that they have to  explore.

00:20:00.530 --> 00:20:02.880
There's nothing purposeful
that they have to do with it.

00:20:02.880 --> 00:20:05.100
It's just open ended, right?

00:20:05.800 --> 00:20:09.450
Yes, that's a, that's a
very good explanation there.

00:20:09.450 --> 00:20:11.050
And I think that becomes very clear.

00:20:11.060 --> 00:20:16.330
And I loved how you said it's really
purposeful versus open ended and

00:20:16.635 --> 00:20:19.935
you're absolutely right, because in
the early childhood classrooms or

00:20:19.945 --> 00:20:24.725
spaces, you would very much see the
invitations, you know, the laying out

00:20:24.735 --> 00:20:26.605
of things for children to explore.

00:20:27.035 --> 00:20:30.225
And sometimes I think people think
that is a provocation, but it's not.

00:20:30.225 --> 00:20:34.275
It's an invitation because you have
very clear, as an educator, a very clear

00:20:34.315 --> 00:20:38.545
intent what you want those children
to do with those objects, right?

00:20:39.205 --> 00:20:43.315
But then on the other hand, when
you place things out and you leave

00:20:43.315 --> 00:20:48.230
it open ended, What can you do, you
know, or what do you think of this,

00:20:48.230 --> 00:20:50.250
or how would you like to explore this?

00:20:50.490 --> 00:20:56.310
Those open ended invitations, they, I'm
saying an open ended invitation, but that

00:20:56.310 --> 00:21:00.600
is very much more along the line of a
provocation, because you're trying there,

00:21:00.630 --> 00:21:05.090
I guess, to provoke some kind of response.

00:21:05.600 --> 00:21:06.430
Would that be correct?

00:21:08.690 --> 00:21:09.510
I would agree with that.

00:21:09.510 --> 00:21:09.860
Yeah.

00:21:10.310 --> 00:21:10.670
Okay.

00:21:10.670 --> 00:21:15.520
So I think as educators who are listening
now and thinking, well, gosh, is it a, is

00:21:15.520 --> 00:21:18.660
it an invitation or is it a provocation?

00:21:19.070 --> 00:21:24.120
I think if we just remember, does it
provoke a response or are children

00:21:24.120 --> 00:21:29.390
doing something that you have an
intent for them to practice or build

00:21:29.400 --> 00:21:31.680
or do or make or create or whatever.

00:21:32.050 --> 00:21:36.010
So I think that's a really good,
reminder  and I think, especially

00:21:36.010 --> 00:21:41.280
for me as well, to really cement that
difference between an invitation and

00:21:41.280 --> 00:21:45.120
a provocation, which I think is really
important for educators to understand.

00:21:46.070 --> 00:21:51.125
So If educators want to take this
leap and they want to start planning

00:21:51.165 --> 00:21:56.075
provocations for newbies or people
who've never done this before, where do

00:21:56.075 --> 00:21:58.265
you suggest that they would then start?

00:21:58.385 --> 00:22:02.705
Just dipping their toes in and this
is how you would go about setting

00:22:02.705 --> 00:22:04.595
up provocations for children.

00:22:05.135 --> 00:22:10.440
So I think, um, my biggest piece of
advice from just, being in classrooms

00:22:10.440 --> 00:22:15.430
myself and and observing what's worked
for me and what hasn't is, , definitely

00:22:15.430 --> 00:22:19.420
it starts with knowing your students
and tuning into what they're interested

00:22:19.420 --> 00:22:22.180
in and what gets them curious, right?

00:22:22.210 --> 00:22:24.610
And that's going to be
different for every student.

00:22:25.090 --> 00:22:29.910
But I think starting there is a really
good, um, a good starting point.

00:22:30.160 --> 00:22:34.660
And now I'm not suggesting that teachers
arrange their classroom into like a

00:22:34.660 --> 00:22:38.240
Roblox studio or anything like that,
although that would be kind of cool.

00:22:38.720 --> 00:22:43.090
But um, encouraging students to talk about
their interests and ask questions and show

00:22:43.090 --> 00:22:47.010
an interest in what they're interested
in, what their likes and dislikes

00:22:47.010 --> 00:22:51.990
are and, and being curious yourself,
you know, modeling curiosity and, and

00:22:52.000 --> 00:22:56.290
modeling,  the act of just talking
about, you know, like asking a student,

00:22:56.330 --> 00:22:57.940
how was your soccer game last night?

00:22:57.950 --> 00:23:04.320
Like how, how did Uh, have you been
working on your, um, your aim or did

00:23:04.320 --> 00:23:08.030
you get any penalty shots or, you
know, asking them about their lives

00:23:08.030 --> 00:23:11.250
and asking, you know, if you see a
student with a phone and, and you say,

00:23:11.250 --> 00:23:12.950
like, what are you playing these days?

00:23:12.960 --> 00:23:15.060
Like, what's, you know,
what game are you playing?

00:23:15.060 --> 00:23:15.920
What's interesting?

00:23:15.930 --> 00:23:16.720
How does that work?

00:23:16.730 --> 00:23:17.680
Teach me about that.

00:23:17.680 --> 00:23:20.690
I'd love for you to take
five minutes at lunchtime.

00:23:20.690 --> 00:23:21.610
Show me how that works.

00:23:22.050 --> 00:23:26.890
Um, So taking an interest in, in
what they're interested in is great.

00:23:27.130 --> 00:23:31.110
I think also teachers sometimes
fall into this way of thinking that

00:23:31.110 --> 00:23:32.580
they have to reinvent the wheel.

00:23:33.200 --> 00:23:36.890
And I know that when I was creating
invitations and provocations for

00:23:36.890 --> 00:23:40.790
my students, I really started
with what I had in the classroom.

00:23:41.110 --> 00:23:44.830
And you know, it can be as
simple as a book and a whiteboard

00:23:44.960 --> 00:23:46.150
that you write a question on.

00:23:46.510 --> 00:23:49.480
You invite a student to look
at a particular picture book.

00:23:49.810 --> 00:23:54.425
Um, I spy books were really, I
don't know if you have I spy books

00:23:54.425 --> 00:23:57.275
and you know about them when I
was a kid, they were so popular.

00:23:57.275 --> 00:23:58.405
They were like gold.

00:23:58.905 --> 00:23:59.215
Yeah.

00:23:59.755 --> 00:24:04.555
And, um, yeah, I even used that
once I used an I spy book and I

00:24:04.555 --> 00:24:06.695
put a whiteboard out on a table.

00:24:06.855 --> 00:24:11.425
And I just said, like, , what nature
objects can you find on this page

00:24:11.425 --> 00:24:18.095
, and, , The act of just looking for
those objects gave students a purpose.

00:24:18.185 --> 00:24:22.435
It wasn't just you're looking for certain
objects, like, you know, they have

00:24:22.435 --> 00:24:26.085
the prescribed, like, find this, find
a magnifying glass, find a whatever,

00:24:26.595 --> 00:24:30.665
but getting them to think about something
different and what is a nature item?

00:24:31.055 --> 00:24:33.775
Or how, what does that look like?

00:24:33.805 --> 00:24:38.555
Why would a nature item be in an office,
you know, and so from there you get a

00:24:38.555 --> 00:24:40.165
lot of really interesting questions.

00:24:40.475 --> 00:24:43.635
So something as simple as a book and
just a little whiteboard that you

00:24:43.635 --> 00:24:47.805
have in the classroom that can be a
perfect start for an invitation um

00:24:48.525 --> 00:24:52.955
having uh, like recyclable materials
that get brought in, you know boxes

00:24:52.955 --> 00:24:55.165
and empty bottles and things like that.

00:24:55.695 --> 00:24:59.585
That is enough for a lot of kids,
you know, like we we joke a lot about

00:24:59.605 --> 00:25:03.605
you know cats, you buy them these
extravagant cat beds and all they

00:25:03.605 --> 00:25:04.705
want to do is play with the box.

00:25:04.755 --> 00:25:06.785
I find that students are like that too.

00:25:06.785 --> 00:25:10.075
You can buy the coolest thing for
them, but they see a box and they're

00:25:10.075 --> 00:25:11.435
like, what could I make out of that?

00:25:11.445 --> 00:25:12.555
Like let's make a sled.

00:25:12.555 --> 00:25:13.575
Let's make a robot.

00:25:13.585 --> 00:25:18.195
Let's make a a window like, you
know, they're creative juices just

00:25:18.195 --> 00:25:20.325
start flowing with like a simple box.

00:25:20.335 --> 00:25:24.815
So sometimes, you know, teachers feel
like they have to go out and buy all

00:25:24.815 --> 00:25:28.615
these expensive things and spend a lot
of money and reinvent the wheel, but

00:25:28.955 --> 00:25:32.375
just knowing your students interests
and just using what you already have

00:25:32.960 --> 00:25:34.270
is a great place to start.

00:25:34.350 --> 00:25:38.290
That's probably like the biggest,
uh, piece of advice I would give

00:25:38.360 --> 00:25:41.800
if someone wants to just dip their
toes and start with that, see what

00:25:41.800 --> 00:25:43.690
happens, see how they respond.

00:25:44.260 --> 00:25:44.460
Yeah.

00:25:44.530 --> 00:25:49.010
I love what you just said, because
I've been really a bit triggered

00:25:49.080 --> 00:25:52.870
on social media this week with all
this going back to school stuff.

00:25:53.510 --> 00:25:57.400
So I've actually just recorded a
podcast episode, which will come out.

00:25:57.785 --> 00:26:02.495
Um, it'll be featured before this,
this recording comes out, but one of

00:26:02.495 --> 00:26:08.755
the things I've noticed is my gosh,
these teachers, they are going to town

00:26:08.765 --> 00:26:16.125
with decorating their classrooms and
buying these extravagant, I, it looks

00:26:16.125 --> 00:26:17.875
like an interior decorating show.

00:26:18.595 --> 00:26:20.345
And I'm thinking to myself.

00:26:21.505 --> 00:26:24.795
How long are kids going to
engage with those things?

00:26:24.795 --> 00:26:26.565
How long are they going
to engage with them?

00:26:26.595 --> 00:26:31.245
And also, let's face facts, it
costs a fortune and it comes

00:26:31.245 --> 00:26:32.765
out of a teacher's own pocket.

00:26:33.475 --> 00:26:36.655
When really, I think the
question we need to ask ourselves

00:26:36.655 --> 00:26:38.705
is, is it really necessary?

00:26:38.755 --> 00:26:39.745
Is it really necessary?

00:26:39.745 --> 00:26:44.210
Because as you've just said, You can
just put a whole bunch of boxes out.

00:26:44.270 --> 00:26:49.280
I know it doesn't look pretty, but
it's going to get those kids so

00:26:49.520 --> 00:26:53.910
much more engaged than the pretty
manicured stuff that you're putting

00:26:53.910 --> 00:26:58.230
out, which they're going to be bored
with within a, within 20 minutes.

00:26:58.240 --> 00:27:01.590
They are going to, no, we don't
want to interact with that anymore.

00:27:01.990 --> 00:27:05.340
I'm thinking, God, my classroom
never looked like that.

00:27:05.410 --> 00:27:06.830
I must have been a hell of a failure.

00:27:06.830 --> 00:27:08.650
I know.

00:27:08.650 --> 00:27:11.250
I see it too.

00:27:11.250 --> 00:27:13.070
And I think, oh, it's, it's so aesthetic.

00:27:13.080 --> 00:27:13.950
It's beautiful.

00:27:14.290 --> 00:27:18.410
But I try to remind myself, you
know, like when I created my bulletin

00:27:18.410 --> 00:27:24.490
boards, something that I found that
was really impactful was, obviously

00:27:24.490 --> 00:27:26.540
not overloading them with stuff.

00:27:26.580 --> 00:27:31.290
Also, the aesthetics didn't really, you
know, I wanted it to look nice, but I

00:27:31.290 --> 00:27:36.820
didn't care if it was, you know, like the
same tones of green and a perfect font.

00:27:36.830 --> 00:27:37.150
Right.

00:27:37.450 --> 00:27:41.140
What I found that was really, uh,
meaningful to the kids was seeing

00:27:41.150 --> 00:27:44.670
their work up there and saying like,
where would your work look nice?

00:27:44.680 --> 00:27:48.240
Like this was a really interesting
presentation about the oceans and

00:27:48.480 --> 00:27:49.990
you made so many great connections.

00:27:50.670 --> 00:27:56.070
And as they were working on their you
know, their curiosity projects, they

00:27:56.070 --> 00:27:57.510
would stick stuff up on the board.

00:27:57.540 --> 00:27:59.900
They'd say, well, I just, I have
to put this picture up because

00:27:59.900 --> 00:28:00.870
I need somewhere to put it.

00:28:00.870 --> 00:28:02.950
I have to work on some other things.

00:28:03.220 --> 00:28:08.140
Or I found this biography of this person
who runs this oil company, for example.

00:28:08.140 --> 00:28:10.360
And I want to just print off his picture.

00:28:10.360 --> 00:28:11.400
Oh, put it on the board.

00:28:11.400 --> 00:28:13.220
Like it's a working document.

00:28:13.580 --> 00:28:20.060
And when students are allowed to or, or
have the autonomy to, to use that board

00:28:20.090 --> 00:28:22.440
as sort of like an extended workspace.

00:28:23.540 --> 00:28:25.590
It, I don't know, there's
something about it.

00:28:25.590 --> 00:28:29.920
That's just so like wonderful and
exciting because not only does it

00:28:29.920 --> 00:28:35.010
show their thinking process and their
creativity and their workflow, but

00:28:35.010 --> 00:28:37.130
it's also a great conversation point.

00:28:37.130 --> 00:28:39.500
You know, people have like
coffee table books, right.

00:28:39.500 --> 00:28:43.040
And it can be a great point of
discussion or a photo on the wall.

00:28:43.410 --> 00:28:46.470
Your working wall, or your bulletin
board, or whatever you want to

00:28:46.480 --> 00:28:48.550
call it, can work in the same way.

00:28:48.900 --> 00:28:53.260
It can be a visual representation of
your kids learning, and it's such a great

00:28:53.260 --> 00:28:58.730
way to, to talk with them about what
they're doing, and, and where they are in

00:28:58.730 --> 00:29:02.990
their inquiry journey, and what they're
learning, and what's standing out to them.

00:29:03.240 --> 00:29:06.030
You know, you can leave it up during
an open house and parents come in.

00:29:06.030 --> 00:29:10.640
They may say, oh, this board is, there's
a whole lot of stuff going on here.

00:29:10.640 --> 00:29:12.370
Where's, you know, what's going on.

00:29:12.370 --> 00:29:15.730
And the student will jump in the
same student who was working on

00:29:15.730 --> 00:29:19.600
the oceans project, this happened
is his dad was like, what's,

00:29:19.800 --> 00:29:20.620
what's this, what's going on.

00:29:20.620 --> 00:29:25.080
He's like, Oh, this is the
so and so, uh, CEO of BP.

00:29:25.740 --> 00:29:29.070
And when they, when they drill in
the ocean, this happens in book.

00:29:29.300 --> 00:29:32.880
And I was blown away at what he
remembered, how passionate he was

00:29:32.880 --> 00:29:36.660
telling his dad, and just that
simple question of,  what's this?

00:29:37.120 --> 00:29:37.460
What's this?

00:29:37.490 --> 00:29:38.710
Who's, who's this guy?

00:29:39.140 --> 00:29:44.380
You know, and it just led to, you know,
his investigations, his opinion on the

00:29:44.380 --> 00:29:48.060
guy, and how it related to the oceans,
because his dad was really big on,

00:29:48.080 --> 00:29:52.500
like, ocean preservation and surfing and
everything, and, like, I almost cried.

00:29:52.500 --> 00:29:55.780
I was like, oh, you know, that's,
it's so wonderful, because that's

00:29:55.780 --> 00:29:57.650
exactly why we do what we do, right?

00:29:57.660 --> 00:30:00.900
That's exactly what we want students
to do, is to have that passion

00:30:01.010 --> 00:30:04.930
and that curiosity and, , be able
to explain what they're doing and

00:30:04.930 --> 00:30:06.730
explain why it's important to them.

00:30:06.730 --> 00:30:09.850
It's just so I get like
choked up thinking about it.

00:30:09.850 --> 00:30:10.880
I love those moments.

00:30:10.880 --> 00:30:14.650
There's they just make
everything so worth it, right?

00:30:15.590 --> 00:30:20.360
Victoria, I hope that listeners
can hear how excited you are, and

00:30:20.370 --> 00:30:23.810
I hope they can hear your passion
because they won't be able to see it.

00:30:23.820 --> 00:30:27.370
A few snippets maybe here and
there, a few little clips of our,

00:30:27.460 --> 00:30:28.910
of our conversation on video.

00:30:29.270 --> 00:30:34.840
But I just want to tell listeners that
Victoria is absolutely glowing right

00:30:34.890 --> 00:30:43.190
now as you are speaking and your passion
and your excitement for for this type

00:30:43.190 --> 00:30:46.640
of learning  and what these children
have learned and what they've achieved

00:30:46.680 --> 00:30:52.070
it's just it's palpable right and that's
exactly what curiosity and inquiry and

00:30:52.070 --> 00:30:56.910
I'm sorry I say inquiry you say inquiry
what it's about it's about provoking

00:30:57.660 --> 00:31:03.480
thinking and questioning and curiosity
so that kids light up in exactly the

00:31:03.480 --> 00:31:06.520
same way as you're lighting up right now.

00:31:07.050 --> 00:31:13.820
And it really, as an educator, and I
can absolutely, I'm with you 100 percent

00:31:13.820 --> 00:31:18.050
on that, there have been so many times
where I have literally got choked up and

00:31:18.050 --> 00:31:22.480
had to fight back tears in a classroom
because these kids have just done the

00:31:22.480 --> 00:31:27.715
most incredible learning that they never
would have done had they not had that

00:31:27.755 --> 00:31:33.495
opportunity to explore and to question and
find answers and also to explore on things

00:31:33.845 --> 00:31:35.565
that they actually are interested in.

00:31:36.015 --> 00:31:40.625
Because  I think inquiry allows them,
gives them permission to do that.

00:31:41.485 --> 00:31:45.725
And you've related that story,
and, and as you said, all of us

00:31:45.735 --> 00:31:47.425
have these little stories, right?

00:31:47.425 --> 00:31:50.395
About kids who've, I can think of so many.

00:31:50.885 --> 00:31:53.945
And very often we think, and I've
had those as well, those, those

00:31:53.985 --> 00:31:58.265
kids that are so enthusiastic and,
they're often kids that are high

00:31:58.265 --> 00:32:00.735
achievers and gosh, they go all in.

00:32:01.295 --> 00:32:02.015
But you know what?

00:32:02.025 --> 00:32:05.725
There's also those little kids and
I've had them too, that really struggle

00:32:05.725 --> 00:32:08.005
academically and that hate school.

00:32:08.705 --> 00:32:13.105
And as soon as they start understanding
and learning, Oh my gosh, I'm actually

00:32:13.155 --> 00:32:18.365
what I can actually, are you telling me I
can actually investigate anything I like?

00:32:19.005 --> 00:32:23.815
And I'm going, yeah, you can, it
opens up an entire world to them.

00:32:24.355 --> 00:32:29.125
And if they've got problems writing,
well, gosh, gee whiz, they don't actually

00:32:29.135 --> 00:32:34.485
have to write a report, they can actually
make a movie or a video or a movie and a

00:32:34.485 --> 00:32:37.345
video, same thing, Edwina or a PowerPoint.

00:32:37.405 --> 00:32:42.575
I've had kids who struggle with
learning and have embraced making

00:32:42.605 --> 00:32:46.745
PowerPoints and standing up and
, where I've had to do the reading

00:32:46.755 --> 00:32:48.215
because they struggle with reading,

00:32:48.215 --> 00:32:52.415
so I've done the reading and they've
listened and they've stood up with a

00:32:52.415 --> 00:32:57.635
PowerPoint presentation that they've
made and remembered everything.

00:32:58.755 --> 00:33:01.865
Remembered everything that I read to them.

00:33:02.325 --> 00:33:05.745
There's no way that that would have
happened had we just given the same

00:33:05.745 --> 00:33:09.605
old boring lesson and , we're going to
sit down and they're going to fill in a

00:33:09.605 --> 00:33:11.855
worksheet  and never remember it again.

00:33:12.345 --> 00:33:17.025
And so I really, gosh, I hope all
of you guys listening can hear the

00:33:17.025 --> 00:33:20.765
passion in our voices and understand
how powerful this is for children.

00:33:20.765 --> 00:33:22.675
It's absolutely a celebration.

00:33:23.165 --> 00:33:27.690
So I think it's just wonderful that
we just have this passion and that

00:33:27.690 --> 00:33:33.880
children can be allowed this autonomy
and long may this live is what I say.

00:33:33.880 --> 00:33:37.680
Now, we've been talking a lot about
autonomy and children's interests.

00:33:38.240 --> 00:33:41.290
And I know that there are going to
be educators out there listening

00:33:41.290 --> 00:33:47.400
that say, well, hang on, how do
I include a kid's interest when

00:33:47.400 --> 00:33:49.850
I have to follow a curriculum?

00:33:50.340 --> 00:33:52.880
Because I think a lot of educators
will say, well, I've got these kids who

00:33:52.880 --> 00:33:56.050
are really interested in this, , but
the curriculum says I have to do that.

00:33:56.300 --> 00:33:58.480
So, so how do I marry the two?

00:33:59.200 --> 00:34:03.845
Do you have a little bit of information
or a little bit of advice for that?

00:34:03.845 --> 00:34:10.480
Yeah, I think, you know, we were talking
earlier about how interdisciplinary

00:34:10.590 --> 00:34:15.130
inquiry learning is, and what I found
is, you know, if a student has a,

00:34:15.420 --> 00:34:18.974
um, an interest in something that
we're not really,  working on it that

00:34:19.004 --> 00:34:22.804
particular time or the curriculum doesn't
really have us there at that time.

00:34:23.224 --> 00:34:27.564
Um, I try and find ways to make
connections between what we're looking

00:34:27.564 --> 00:34:29.304
at and what they're interested in.

00:34:29.314 --> 00:34:33.394
So, like, for example, you were saying,
you know, for working on like the

00:34:33.394 --> 00:34:35.504
water cycle or, or something like that.

00:34:35.504 --> 00:34:37.484
And a student's really
obsessed with space.

00:34:37.844 --> 00:34:45.509
You know, you could invite them to find
out, like, Do water cycles happen on Mars?

00:34:45.509 --> 00:34:47.579
Like, does Mars have its own water cycle?

00:34:47.589 --> 00:34:50.629
Does Jupiter You know, like,
how does water Is there even

00:34:50.629 --> 00:34:51.999
water in the solar system?

00:34:52.389 --> 00:34:54.239
And you could sort of lead them that way.

00:34:54.269 --> 00:35:00.219
And as the student is exploring that,
you know, you could sort of build in

00:35:00.369 --> 00:35:04.939
time where you review, for example,
like, the required vocabulary and sort

00:35:04.939 --> 00:35:06.619
of just infuse what they're doing.

00:35:06.619 --> 00:35:10.219
And, you know, , if they're trying to
explain how something works and maybe

00:35:10.219 --> 00:35:13.764
there's a correct term that you're
supposed to teach them, sort of slide

00:35:13.764 --> 00:35:18.674
that in, just say, oh, you know, X term
or whatever, and briefly explain what

00:35:18.674 --> 00:35:23.044
it means in that new context so that
they are aware of, you know, the term,

00:35:23.094 --> 00:35:27.474
but they're also aware that it can be
applied in different contexts, right?

00:35:27.884 --> 00:35:34.464
So I think leaning into that is
interdisciplinary, uh, approach and

00:35:34.654 --> 00:35:38.884
understanding that even if there
are two subjects that you feel are

00:35:38.884 --> 00:35:43.584
totally unrelated, they're probably
not as unrelated as you may think.

00:35:43.844 --> 00:35:49.824
There's always a way, uh, I've found to
connect what a student is interested in

00:35:49.854 --> 00:35:52.854
to something that they're supposed to
be learning about at that grade level,

00:35:53.054 --> 00:35:59.234
you know, and I feel like, um, as much
as we may say, you know, the kids are

00:35:59.234 --> 00:36:03.394
on iPads and their phones and they're
gaming all the time, there are so many

00:36:03.394 --> 00:36:08.659
opportunities to connect what they're
doing in their free time, what they're

00:36:08.659 --> 00:36:13.079
interested in to something relevant to
the curriculum and a lot of students I've

00:36:13.079 --> 00:36:16.839
noticed, especially in like grades four,
five and six, you know, they're like

00:36:16.839 --> 00:36:19.979
between the ages of like nine and 13.

00:36:19.979 --> 00:36:24.219
They're discovering that
their interests can actually.

00:36:25.884 --> 00:36:31.574
lead them to a career, for example, in
video game design, that the video game

00:36:31.574 --> 00:36:35.113
that they're playing, or the, the, the
game, they're like Roblox, Minecraft,

00:36:35.114 --> 00:36:40.584
all those, you know, Fortnite, they're,
um, there's so many things they can learn

00:36:40.584 --> 00:36:43.984
behind the scenes, you know, there's
connections to math in terms of coding,

00:36:44.294 --> 00:36:46.753
you know, how could you create this,
Um, how can you create this on your own?

00:36:46.754 --> 00:36:48.714
Could we use scratch to create this?

00:36:49.044 --> 00:36:52.194
Um, you know, building
like in Minecraft, right?

00:36:52.254 --> 00:36:55.134
How could you use recyclable
materials to recreate this?

00:36:55.424 --> 00:36:57.564
That also teaches them about forces.

00:36:57.614 --> 00:36:59.844
You know, what materials
will go well together?

00:37:00.294 --> 00:37:03.014
How can you distribute the
weight of your structure?

00:37:03.284 --> 00:37:07.264
You know, all these things can pop up
and it just takes a bit of practice

00:37:07.264 --> 00:37:12.404
and a bit of time and, um, experience
to, to look at what a student's

00:37:12.404 --> 00:37:14.393
interested in and say, okay, okay.

00:37:14.664 --> 00:37:15.914
Where are the connections here?

00:37:15.924 --> 00:37:20.224
How can I sort of do what I need to do
as a teacher, curriculum wise, teaching

00:37:20.224 --> 00:37:25.024
wise, objectives wise, and connect it
to what the students are interested in?

00:37:25.164 --> 00:37:28.734
And I think a lot of teachers find that
there's more connections than they think,

00:37:28.734 --> 00:37:33.253
and using that interdisciplinary approach
is a good way to find those connections.

00:37:33.253 --> 00:37:39.583
I think what you've just said, to me,
there's one word that we as educators

00:37:39.583 --> 00:37:44.483
need to be able to do that and find the
connections, and that's our mindset.

00:37:45.003 --> 00:37:46.483
We have to be curious.

00:37:46.483 --> 00:37:52.373
We have to be open to actually take
a moment to think about, well, gosh,

00:37:52.413 --> 00:37:53.753
this kid is interested in this.

00:37:53.773 --> 00:37:55.183
What questions could I ask?

00:37:55.183 --> 00:37:56.723
How can I relate?

00:37:57.488 --> 00:38:01.658
How can I relate this interest
that he has or that she has to

00:38:01.658 --> 00:38:03.078
this topic that I'm teaching?

00:38:03.448 --> 00:38:09.408
And so I think that just requires
curiosity on our part and a willingness

00:38:10.028 --> 00:38:15.223
to let go of what we're doing and to
just be more willing to experiment,

00:38:15.653 --> 00:38:17.063
which is, would you agree with that?

00:38:17.953 --> 00:38:18.833
Yeah, I agree.

00:38:18.903 --> 00:38:23.453
I think sometimes teachers are and
rightfully so nervous about, you

00:38:23.453 --> 00:38:28.273
know, because there's that, that old
thinking of compartmentalizing things.

00:38:28.703 --> 00:38:34.763
And I think when we realize how easy
it is to connect these different

00:38:34.763 --> 00:38:39.608
topics and subjects to each other,
That's when we start to think, well,

00:38:39.708 --> 00:38:44.148
okay, actually, I can use what they're
interested in, and I can infuse it with

00:38:44.188 --> 00:38:46.308
what I was planning on doing with them.

00:38:46.328 --> 00:38:50.578
I can make those connections and, or
even plan it so that the students make

00:38:50.588 --> 00:38:52.098
those connections on their own, right?

00:38:52.098 --> 00:38:57.538
It's, it's, for me, so great when
it's, I've, and I've had this

00:38:57.538 --> 00:39:00.118
happen before where a student
will be working on something.

00:39:00.128 --> 00:39:04.548
Like we were doing art, I remember once
we were  doing some Bob Ross painting.

00:39:04.938 --> 00:39:08.943
And, um, One of my students said
like, this is kind of like math.

00:39:09.923 --> 00:39:11.233
And I went, what do you mean?

00:39:11.993 --> 00:39:12.613
It's art.

00:39:13.343 --> 00:39:14.163
How is it like math?

00:39:15.033 --> 00:39:18.833
And, um, I like to play dumb with
my students to, to just show them,

00:39:18.833 --> 00:39:21.583
like, I don't know everything and
please tell me, what do you mean?

00:39:21.953 --> 00:39:24.853
And she was saying, you know, like, the
way that the branches are separating

00:39:24.853 --> 00:39:26.693
from the trees, it's, like, symmetrical.

00:39:26.703 --> 00:39:29.773
They're, like, one branch is a
little bit different, but they're

00:39:29.773 --> 00:39:31.913
sort of, the patterns are the same.

00:39:32.593 --> 00:39:36.373
And, you know, when, when we
draw the leaves in the trees,

00:39:36.403 --> 00:39:39.533
they sort of make, like, little
circles that are, like, patterns.

00:39:40.203 --> 00:39:43.343
And I said, Oh yeah, because
in math, don't we do like

00:39:43.373 --> 00:39:46.613
patterns and tessellations
and, and she goes, yeah, yeah.

00:39:46.613 --> 00:39:49.973
And I said, Oh, it's, and I was
like, would the rug be math?

00:39:50.063 --> 00:39:53.553
Cause we had like a sort of rug
with shapes on it, different colors.

00:39:53.553 --> 00:39:56.673
And I said, so would the rug be math?

00:39:56.703 --> 00:39:57.923
Is that a math rug?

00:39:58.443 --> 00:39:59.463
And she thought it was funny.

00:39:59.463 --> 00:40:01.163
And I said, is it an artsy rug?

00:40:01.193 --> 00:40:06.613
Like people who are artists would design
rugs, but like, what, how is it math?

00:40:06.613 --> 00:40:10.003
And she, you could see the
gears turning and she's like,

00:40:10.003 --> 00:40:11.253
well, I guess it's kind of.

00:40:11.643 --> 00:40:14.783
like math because there's these shapes
she got on the floor and everything.

00:40:14.783 --> 00:40:16.173
She's like, well, here's a triangle.

00:40:16.173 --> 00:40:19.703
Here's a, um, uh, diamond,
here's a whatever.

00:40:19.993 --> 00:40:22.883
And I said, Oh, I wonder
where else there's math.

00:40:23.233 --> 00:40:25.123
And I like got up and started looking.

00:40:25.123 --> 00:40:26.713
I'm like, no, you continue your painting.

00:40:26.713 --> 00:40:27.893
I'm going to look for more math.

00:40:27.893 --> 00:40:30.463
And I could see that she
was like looking around too.

00:40:30.473 --> 00:40:34.173
We had like stained glass windows
and, you know, she was totally

00:40:34.173 --> 00:40:35.773
tuned in just that one question.

00:40:35.773 --> 00:40:39.363
And then, you know, we would
do math and I'm sure she.

00:40:39.883 --> 00:40:41.913
could see, you know,
patterns and think back.

00:40:41.913 --> 00:40:46.043
And so those connections that I feel
like are really like magical moments

00:40:46.043 --> 00:40:49.143
where you can really see the connections
that they're making with what they're

00:40:49.143 --> 00:40:52.023
doing to, to an abundance of things.

00:40:53.023 --> 00:40:54.043
Yeah, that's amazing.

00:40:54.053 --> 00:40:58.093
And that's, and that again, it's, as you
know, it's just to being aware and having

00:40:58.093 --> 00:41:01.303
an awareness and, and always questioning.

00:41:01.303 --> 00:41:04.323
And I love how you've just said,  you
sort of play dumb a little bit and you

00:41:04.373 --> 00:41:08.853
ask the questions and that in itself is
a provocation because you're provoking

00:41:08.853 --> 00:41:14.503
them to think and respond and, and come
up with some kind of explanation or

00:41:14.503 --> 00:41:16.973
search for the answer, which is amazing.

00:41:17.993 --> 00:41:23.593
I'm just wondering now, Victoria,
how does one, measure the

00:41:23.593 --> 00:41:25.523
effectiveness of a provocation?

00:41:26.298 --> 00:41:27.288
It's a really good question.

00:41:27.318 --> 00:41:32.208
I would say definitely just based
on how engaged the students are,

00:41:32.268 --> 00:41:35.008
you know, some provocations just
don't, they kind of fall flat.

00:41:35.098 --> 00:41:38.708
Like I've had provocations where
I think the student's going to be

00:41:38.708 --> 00:41:44.038
interested and they're actually like,
and they don't really seem interested.

00:41:44.418 --> 00:41:47.878
Um, the good thing about a provocation
is that because it's so open ended,

00:41:47.888 --> 00:41:52.258
you can really shift gears and kind
of steer it in a different direction.

00:41:52.258 --> 00:41:56.733
If you notice that the student isn't,
curious and they're sort of just meh,

00:41:57.103 --> 00:42:01.603
you know, sometimes they just aren't used
to being asked an open ended question.

00:42:01.603 --> 00:42:03.683
They're just used to quickly
googling and they're like,

00:42:03.683 --> 00:42:05.013
oh, this is the answer, right?

00:42:05.403 --> 00:42:08.723
Um, so for some students, they're just
not used to it and you sort of have to

00:42:08.743 --> 00:42:13.083
coax them and, and, you know, scaffold
the process of, you know, here's your

00:42:13.083 --> 00:42:15.573
question and where could we go with this?

00:42:15.583 --> 00:42:19.173
Like, and, and trying to get them
to activate their prior knowledge,

00:42:19.523 --> 00:42:23.523
activate their lived experiences
to try and, you know, make a

00:42:23.523 --> 00:42:27.893
connection between what the question
is and what they could do with it.

00:42:28.233 --> 00:42:30.703
So for some students,
they're just not used to it.

00:42:30.703 --> 00:42:33.173
You have to sort of
guide them a little bit.

00:42:33.403 --> 00:42:36.823
But if a student is, is super
engaged in what they're doing and

00:42:36.823 --> 00:42:40.003
they're like, Oh yeah, this reminds
me of blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

00:42:40.183 --> 00:42:45.403
Or, or they say, Oh, I need to
find a plastic bottle and a piece

00:42:45.403 --> 00:42:47.403
of string and a piece of red clay.

00:42:47.443 --> 00:42:50.923
And you go, Okay, let's
look for something.

00:42:51.213 --> 00:42:57.273
You know, if, if they, they seem excited,
engaged, they have questions, they want

00:42:57.273 --> 00:43:02.863
to act and do something, that I feel is a
sign of a really successful provocation.

00:43:03.673 --> 00:43:09.848
But if a student is sort of passé about
it and, you know, just kind of, mmm.

00:43:10.308 --> 00:43:13.368
Then you either have a student
who's not used to that kind of,

00:43:13.728 --> 00:43:18.688
uh, experience, or they just don't
really know where to go with it.

00:43:18.688 --> 00:43:21.988
You sort of have to pivot and,
and think, okay, how can I

00:43:21.988 --> 00:43:23.278
make this exciting for them?

00:43:23.278 --> 00:43:27.348
And once they show excitement
and engagement, then you know

00:43:27.358 --> 00:43:29.168
that your provocation is working.

00:43:29.168 --> 00:43:29.988
And it takes time.

00:43:30.378 --> 00:43:33.048
They're not all going
to be, you know, a hit.

00:43:33.208 --> 00:43:35.559
You know, you sort of have
to,  feel around a bit.

00:43:36.499 --> 00:43:39.689
And so again, you've just
demonstrated that the way you

00:43:39.689 --> 00:43:41.439
do that is by asking questions.

00:43:41.449 --> 00:43:44.769
So you ask yourself the
question again, how do I pivot?

00:43:44.779 --> 00:43:48.099
How can I make this provocation
interesting to these children?

00:43:48.119 --> 00:43:51.459
Because as you've said, sometimes we
just think, Oh, maybe I just changed the

00:43:51.459 --> 00:43:56.479
provocation, but perhaps it actually just
requires a little bit more thinking on

00:43:56.479 --> 00:44:02.849
our part of saying, well, maybe children
don't understand how to actually go about.

00:44:03.989 --> 00:44:06.219
questioning the provocation, right?

00:44:06.859 --> 00:44:10.769
Um, and again, it's that whole modeling
story of, you know, people often

00:44:10.779 --> 00:44:14.039
think that inquiry just like, you
just let them go free range chickens

00:44:14.039 --> 00:44:16.829
and off they go, they're going to
inquire, but it's not that at all,

00:44:16.839 --> 00:44:21.829
we actually have to be really
explicit and model what inquiry is.

00:44:21.829 --> 00:44:25.359
And we have to be explicit and model
exactly what we want children to do.

00:44:25.399 --> 00:44:29.709
So if they've never, if they're not
used to, , asking questions or wondering

00:44:29.999 --> 00:44:34.449
then we, I guess, have to model, oh,
what kind of questions do you think?

00:44:34.449 --> 00:44:36.189
What do you, what do you think about that?

00:44:36.759 --> 00:44:38.529
Or how do you think this could work?

00:44:38.769 --> 00:44:40.969
We have to model those questions.

00:44:41.319 --> 00:44:42.759
So I love how you've said that.

00:44:42.969 --> 00:44:45.389
And it's becoming more
and more apparent to me.

00:44:45.479 --> 00:44:50.029
The more I speak to people is
that with inquiry, it's just the

00:44:50.029 --> 00:44:54.459
same thing over and over the same,
everybody says the same thing.

00:44:54.469 --> 00:44:59.354
It's our curiosity and our questioning
that lead children down this path of

00:44:59.364 --> 00:45:01.284
being curious and asking questions.

00:45:02.194 --> 00:45:05.414
It's just getting used to a
different mindset, isn't it?

00:45:06.214 --> 00:45:10.974
So, what do you think has been the
most rewarding experience of being

00:45:10.974 --> 00:45:15.814
an inquiry based educator using
inquiry as a strategy for teaching.

00:45:16.324 --> 00:45:21.234
Oh, it's, it's definitely seeing the
students and how they, how they light up,

00:45:21.344 --> 00:45:25.514
like  the story I was telling you about,
I can't put like words on exactly how it

00:45:25.514 --> 00:45:32.334
feels when you, because like you said, it
takes a long, not an extensive amount of

00:45:32.404 --> 00:45:37.364
time, it does take a lot of thought when
you plan out provocations, inquiries,

00:45:37.384 --> 00:45:43.064
you know, when you really want to dive
straight in and make it like a regular

00:45:43.994 --> 00:45:45.564
part of learning in your classroom.

00:45:45.634 --> 00:45:52.204
It does take a lot of thought and so the
most rewarding thing for me is when you

00:45:52.514 --> 00:45:57.904
give a child the opportunity to explore
something that's interesting to them.

00:45:58.964 --> 00:46:04.184
And they surprise you with either how
much they know, because they're so

00:46:04.184 --> 00:46:09.854
passionate, how driven they are, how
they sort of lose track of time when

00:46:09.854 --> 00:46:13.644
they're investigating, when they're,
you know, doing some research, maybe

00:46:13.644 --> 00:46:17.354
when they're conducting an interview,
they want to know more about something.

00:46:17.354 --> 00:46:18.964
They maybe want to ask an expert.

00:46:19.364 --> 00:46:24.014
Um, When you see them working hard on
something that they're excited about and

00:46:24.014 --> 00:46:28.044
when you hear them make the connections
I know we've talked about that you

00:46:28.044 --> 00:46:32.334
know, this, this whole time about how
important connections are for me when

00:46:32.334 --> 00:46:36.314
they make those connections and when
they say, like, you know, there's math

00:46:36.314 --> 00:46:40.774
in this art, or, you know, there's,
there's business in this science and

00:46:40.774 --> 00:46:43.844
they make those connections themselves.

00:46:44.244 --> 00:46:48.574
Or when you sort of guide them to
making that connection themselves

00:46:48.574 --> 00:46:52.284
and you leave it open and they're
able to go, Hey, wait a second.

00:46:52.344 --> 00:46:54.754
Isn't this sort of like that?

00:46:54.764 --> 00:46:56.904
Or I sort of, I saw this on the news.

00:46:56.904 --> 00:46:58.174
Is this kind of related?

00:46:58.579 --> 00:47:01.609
And it opens up a conversation
and you have a dialogue with that

00:47:01.609 --> 00:47:05.219
student about something that they
noticed and something that relates

00:47:05.219 --> 00:47:06.429
to what they're interested in.

00:47:06.729 --> 00:47:12.649
And for me, that chokes me up because I
think, You are learning the skills that

00:47:12.649 --> 00:47:17.759
are required to think critically, to
go into the world and learn something

00:47:17.759 --> 00:47:21.409
that might be difficult, but you have
an arsenal of information in your mind.

00:47:21.459 --> 00:47:25.429
You have an arsenal of experiences
that you can draw from that will

00:47:25.429 --> 00:47:26.939
help you to understand new things.

00:47:27.359 --> 00:47:31.839
Cause I find that a lot of students
have trouble, you know, making those

00:47:31.839 --> 00:47:35.719
connections and also being able to
think critically about what's going

00:47:35.719 --> 00:47:39.559
on around them, they may say, like,
I'm just a child, what do, , what

00:47:39.559 --> 00:47:44.869
does, um, I don't know, like, what
do certain laws or politics or

00:47:45.069 --> 00:47:46.459
what do they have to do with me?

00:47:46.819 --> 00:47:51.389
And actually, there are so many
ways that, that kids can relate

00:47:51.389 --> 00:47:52.929
to things that go on in the world.

00:47:53.469 --> 00:47:59.359
And when you see students making those
connections and you see them ask questions

00:47:59.359 --> 00:48:03.779
and try and make sense of what they're
learning  and , you watch them as they

00:48:03.779 --> 00:48:08.939
try to apply what they're learning in a
classroom to the outside world, whether

00:48:08.939 --> 00:48:12.349
it's through a TV show, newspaper,
something they saw when they were,

00:48:12.629 --> 00:48:15.829
you know, going to soccer practice or
going out for dinner with their family.

00:48:16.319 --> 00:48:20.249
When they come to you with those
curiosities, it, It feels great as a

00:48:20.249 --> 00:48:23.989
teacher that they feel confident to
come to you and ask questions, they

00:48:23.989 --> 00:48:27.619
know that you're going to honour those
questions and be just as interested as

00:48:27.619 --> 00:48:32.884
they are,  but then when you, when you
see them working hard  and they're like

00:48:32.884 --> 00:48:37.024
deep into their learning and they're
making those connections and,  you can

00:48:37.024 --> 00:48:41.224
see how much they're enjoying it, and
you can see the confidence building.

00:48:41.694 --> 00:48:47.664
That is so rewarding to me , and I'm
such a, like, emotional person that

00:48:47.714 --> 00:48:51.504
when I see that I'm like, Oh, I'm so
proud of you like you are really doing

00:48:51.504 --> 00:48:56.439
so much, and you're great becoming
so confident and so happy and, and

00:48:56.439 --> 00:48:59.569
you, you really feel accomplished,
you want to share what you're doing.

00:48:59.569 --> 00:49:01.589
You want to tell everyone about it.

00:49:01.599 --> 00:49:02.959
Like, that's just so sweet to me.

00:49:02.959 --> 00:49:08.229
It's such a, a remarkable thing to see
and also makes me feel very grateful to

00:49:08.229 --> 00:49:13.159
actually witness that and to be able to
work with students who just amaze me.

00:49:13.909 --> 00:49:14.819
That's so wonderful.

00:49:14.819 --> 00:49:17.959
And also  when they take what they've
learning in class, and they, as you

00:49:17.959 --> 00:49:19.939
say, they apply it to their real world.

00:49:20.399 --> 00:49:23.679
And then you hear that they come back
and their parents come back and they

00:49:23.679 --> 00:49:26.559
say to you, Oh my gosh, you know, my
child's come home and he's talking

00:49:26.559 --> 00:49:27.889
about this and that and the next thing.

00:49:27.889 --> 00:49:29.499
And he's made me go out and get this.

00:49:29.499 --> 00:49:31.009
And so I've had to get this.

00:49:31.009 --> 00:49:32.839
And we were reading up about that.

00:49:32.899 --> 00:49:36.489
And it's incredible because then,
you know, you've made an impact.

00:49:36.569 --> 00:49:41.849
And, and they're actually going to explore
outside of the classroom, something

00:49:41.849 --> 00:49:44.049
that you sparked inside the classroom.

00:49:44.439 --> 00:49:46.199
And I think that's just amazing.

00:49:46.209 --> 00:49:51.489
And I guess a true testament of how
powerful inquiry learning really is.

00:49:51.489 --> 00:49:55.179
Victoria, I think we're almost getting
to the end here, but I'd like to say

00:49:55.229 --> 00:49:57.149
or ask you , what you think about this.

00:49:57.839 --> 00:50:02.139
Education is going through
massive challenges right now.

00:50:02.749 --> 00:50:05.329
Especially in the Northern
Hemisphere right now, everybody's

00:50:05.329 --> 00:50:08.529
going back to school and getting
ready for the new academic year.

00:50:09.619 --> 00:50:14.819
What advice can you give educators
who are either new to inquiry or,

00:50:15.409 --> 00:50:17.509
perhaps have tried inquiry before,

00:50:17.929 --> 00:50:22.319
what advice can you give them  to
set up provocations and invitations

00:50:22.619 --> 00:50:28.684
and also just to consider inquiry
as a strategy in there learning

00:50:28.684 --> 00:50:30.834
experiences and in their classrooms?

00:50:30.834 --> 00:50:37.734
So I think, um, knowing your students
and, um, getting to know their interests,

00:50:37.754 --> 00:50:41.994
getting to know what makes them curious
is again, a great place to start.

00:50:42.364 --> 00:50:48.669
Um, In terms of implementing inquiry
and feeling overwhelmed, I like to

00:50:48.749 --> 00:50:53.329
sort of draw inspiration from an
old TV show, actually, that a lot

00:50:53.329 --> 00:50:57.269
of kids who are now my age watched,
which was The Magic School Bus.

00:50:57.629 --> 00:51:01.719
I don't know if that was a program
in Australia with Miss Rizzle.

00:51:01.719 --> 00:51:04.794
No, but we still watch it.

00:51:04.794 --> 00:51:05.134
Yes.

00:51:05.134 --> 00:51:08.614
And my kids actually went to an
American international school.

00:51:09.234 --> 00:51:13.244
And so we had a lot of magic school
bus going on when they were younger.

00:51:13.314 --> 00:51:13.534
Yeah.

00:51:13.944 --> 00:51:14.424
Yeah.

00:51:15.274 --> 00:51:16.414
That was, Oh my gosh.

00:51:16.424 --> 00:51:21.844
When, if I had any spare, you know, 10,
15 minutes here and there in England

00:51:22.214 --> 00:51:26.224
to really like consolidate something,
cause we had, like I told you, our

00:51:26.224 --> 00:51:30.494
lessons were very structured sometimes
with consolidation, I would take a few

00:51:30.494 --> 00:51:35.304
minutes and I'd find an appropriate
clip that would sort of solidify like

00:51:35.304 --> 00:51:39.604
if we were talking about the digestive
system or something I would put on

00:51:39.604 --> 00:51:43.204
a little clip from the magic school
bus and they didn't know what it was.

00:51:43.244 --> 00:51:46.444
They hadn't seen it and I was
like, oh same with Bill Nye.

00:51:46.454 --> 00:51:53.249
They didn't you know, and so I I try
to think you know, about advice  for

00:51:53.249 --> 00:51:54.499
teachers who want to do inquiry.

00:51:54.819 --> 00:51:59.479
And I would take the words of Ms. Frizzle
and say, take chances, make mistakes, you

00:51:59.479 --> 00:52:02.719
know, because teachers are learning too.

00:52:02.719 --> 00:52:06.489
We are, we're never at a point where
we, where we can't learn, right.

00:52:06.489 --> 00:52:11.239
Teachers, I think, um, show a lot of
vulnerability with students when they

00:52:11.239 --> 00:52:15.509
say, I don't know the right answer and
maybe this isn't going to work, but we

00:52:15.509 --> 00:52:18.209
can pivot and I think it's important that.

00:52:19.159 --> 00:52:22.099
You know, as teachers, we remember
that we may not get it right the

00:52:22.099 --> 00:52:26.919
first time and to model to students
that what you did may not have

00:52:26.919 --> 00:52:28.699
worked the way that you intended it.

00:52:29.444 --> 00:52:34.954
But you can actively say, you know, oh,
didn't really work the way I wanted it to.

00:52:35.084 --> 00:52:36.404
I was sort of hoping for this.

00:52:36.414 --> 00:52:39.824
How can we regroup and make this better?

00:52:39.824 --> 00:52:43.774
And modeling how to deal with
that failure, even though I

00:52:43.794 --> 00:52:45.974
don't really consider it failure.

00:52:45.984 --> 00:52:47.704
It's just a learning experience.

00:52:48.424 --> 00:52:51.244
But reframing that as, you know,
what can we learn from this?

00:52:51.264 --> 00:52:52.454
How can we make it better?

00:52:52.494 --> 00:52:55.714
Getting the students input on
what they might be interested in.

00:52:56.639 --> 00:52:58.599
That works to a teacher's advantage.

00:52:58.609 --> 00:53:02.859
So if you're concerned about, you know,
am I going to get this provocation right?

00:53:02.909 --> 00:53:05.689
Or am I going to get inquiry
right the first time?

00:53:06.449 --> 00:53:11.589
Probably not, but it's a great opportunity
for you to say, this is what worked.

00:53:11.879 --> 00:53:12.749
This is what didn't.

00:53:13.099 --> 00:53:14.619
How did my students respond?

00:53:14.869 --> 00:53:16.019
What can I do better?

00:53:16.069 --> 00:53:17.309
Could I get their input?

00:53:17.819 --> 00:53:19.409
You know, that's of course what we want.

00:53:19.409 --> 00:53:20.399
We want student input.

00:53:20.399 --> 00:53:21.789
We want their engagement.

00:53:22.319 --> 00:53:28.669
And so modeling that,  You know, taking a
step back and regrouping and thinking of a

00:53:28.669 --> 00:53:34.519
different way to approach what we've done
or what we want to do is really powerful.

00:53:34.859 --> 00:53:38.069
And like I said, I think it really
starts with getting to know your students

00:53:38.069 --> 00:53:42.679
and cultivating that environment for
inquiry and asking lots of questions

00:53:42.679 --> 00:53:47.229
and, um, taking an interest in what
they like to do and what interests

00:53:47.229 --> 00:53:48.669
them and what makes them curious.

00:53:48.679 --> 00:53:50.189
It's a really great place to start.

00:53:51.344 --> 00:53:57.194
What an amazing, amazing piece of advice
and so getting to know your students.

00:53:58.199 --> 00:54:03.039
knowing their interests, modeling,
modeling, modeling, and more modeling

00:54:03.049 --> 00:54:06.789
because they don't know what they
don't know, and also embracing failure.

00:54:06.999 --> 00:54:10.039
And I think that's so important,
especially for those kids as well

00:54:10.039 --> 00:54:12.559
that, , that are the perfectionists.

00:54:12.629 --> 00:54:15.369
They are so afraid of doing anything
because they don't want to fail.

00:54:15.379 --> 00:54:16.399
They don't want to do badly.

00:54:16.399 --> 00:54:19.789
And so when we're modeling this
failure and we're modeling, I

00:54:19.829 --> 00:54:21.149
don't know, how do we do this?

00:54:21.149 --> 00:54:22.329
Oh, well, this didn't work.

00:54:22.329 --> 00:54:23.719
Well, so how do we change it?

00:54:24.514 --> 00:54:29.294
I think it embraces our own vulnerability,
which will then really help children

00:54:29.304 --> 00:54:30.974
embrace their vulnerability.

00:54:31.434 --> 00:54:35.014
And so I think those are really,
really valuable, valuable

00:54:35.014 --> 00:54:37.494
lessons and valuable insights.

00:54:37.554 --> 00:54:41.234
And I don't think teachers can
really get better advice than that,

00:54:41.294 --> 00:54:45.174
just to be brave themselves and
encourage their children to be brave.

00:54:45.494 --> 00:54:46.754
So that is amazing.

00:54:48.309 --> 00:54:52.979
Victoria, thank you for this and
I'm going to ask you, you have a

00:54:52.989 --> 00:54:59.059
wonderful blog that really goes cross
curricular and integrates all the

00:54:59.059 --> 00:55:04.879
different subject areas and it's a
treasure trove on all things Inquiry.

00:55:06.179 --> 00:55:09.779
How can other educators find you?

00:55:09.799 --> 00:55:12.679
How can they work with you
if that's an option for them?

00:55:12.749 --> 00:55:17.709
Or, and how can , they just seek out
more information like what you've

00:55:17.719 --> 00:55:21.049
given today, and as I know that there's
a heck of a lot more that you have

00:55:21.049 --> 00:55:22.969
to share, where can they find you?

00:55:24.039 --> 00:55:29.084
So where I publish all of the articles
and resources and downloadables

00:55:29.084 --> 00:55:31.319
is on, uh,, learningbyinquiry com.

00:55:31.889 --> 00:55:36.664
Um, I'm learning by inquiry on
Instagram as well, on Facebook, um,

00:55:37.344 --> 00:55:40.964
I'm not as active on some of the other
platforms like Twitter, for example.

00:55:41.934 --> 00:55:46.004
, I do have a YouTube channel,
Learn by Inquiry, um, but that

00:55:46.004 --> 00:55:48.484
is sort of in its early stages.

00:55:48.484 --> 00:55:51.854
It's sort of where I post the video
snippets that I like to include in my

00:55:51.854 --> 00:55:55.974
blog posts, like for example, the stop
motion videos that my students have done.

00:55:56.484 --> 00:56:01.274
, But primarily, the website is filled
with, you know, information, not just,

00:56:01.474 --> 00:56:07.494
, pedagogical approaches, but also,
uh, a lot of practical examples and

00:56:07.494 --> 00:56:11.244
inspiration, because what I found was
that, , there's a lot of really great,

00:56:11.284 --> 00:56:17.334
amazing, um, inquiry educators in the
space, like we talked about, um, but

00:56:17.334 --> 00:56:23.419
what I found was that,  a lot of social
media posts People were asking for ideas,

00:56:23.529 --> 00:56:28.529
examples, projects, practical things
that they could do with their students.

00:56:28.539 --> 00:56:35.519
So on my website, I try to offer a lot
of ideas and roots of inquiry and how

00:56:35.519 --> 00:56:37.619
they connect with different subjects.

00:56:37.619 --> 00:56:39.989
You know, like science and
math and everything like that.

00:56:39.999 --> 00:56:44.609
So,  my website is a really, , good place
to start if you want some inspiration

00:56:44.609 --> 00:56:46.559
and some good ideas, some resources.

00:56:47.169 --> 00:56:49.619
Um, and that's where I'm
most active right now.

00:56:51.109 --> 00:56:51.509
Yes.

00:56:51.559 --> 00:56:56.699
And I will place all the links to
Victoria's website in the show notes.

00:56:56.699 --> 00:57:01.559
So anybody  can just go there and
browse around and as Victoria has said,

00:57:01.849 --> 00:57:05.109
there's a lot of practical stuff because
I've had a really good browse around.

00:57:05.459 --> 00:57:10.789
There's also some stuff on pedagogy and
there's freebies  and integration ideas.

00:57:11.219 --> 00:57:15.319
So really just as I've said before,
treasure trove of information, so

00:57:15.319 --> 00:57:16.639
really go and have a look there.

00:57:16.949 --> 00:57:18.439
I'll put the links in the show notes.

00:57:18.909 --> 00:57:21.989
So Victoria, I would just want to
thank you for being on the show.

00:57:22.139 --> 00:57:27.129
It's been an absolute pleasure having you
and Just your passion and your enthusiasm

00:57:27.209 --> 00:57:32.469
for teaching and for children and keeping
them curious and getting them involved

00:57:32.469 --> 00:57:35.609
in inquiry and having curious minds.

00:57:35.609 --> 00:57:38.089
And I think that's what it's
all about at the end of the day.

00:57:38.089 --> 00:57:41.439
So I just want to thank you for
sharing that with our listeners.

00:57:41.889 --> 00:57:44.269
And I hope that in the future
we'll talk to you again.

00:57:44.859 --> 00:57:50.689
And until next time, I'd just like to
tell everybody to stay blooming curious.