WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:04.569 This morning, we welcome Jessica Vance, who has a professional teaching and 00:00:04.569 --> 00:00:08.980 leadership background in both private and public international schools as an 00:00:09.000 --> 00:00:12.830 IB PYP educator and PYP coordinator. 00:00:13.260 --> 00:00:17.700 Her passion for student centered learning, collaboration and coaching stems 00:00:17.700 --> 00:00:22.260 from the students themselves, finding inspiration in their natural curiosity. 00:00:23.000 --> 00:00:27.220 Her journey and experience as an inquiry educator in IB schools and 00:00:27.220 --> 00:00:31.860 place based education fuels her passion and global work in coaching 00:00:31.860 --> 00:00:35.710 both teachers and leaders in their roles, as well as supporting schools 00:00:35.730 --> 00:00:37.890 in implementing inquiry based learning. 00:00:38.530 --> 00:00:43.380 Jessica understands the power of curiosity to guide next steps and 00:00:43.450 --> 00:00:45.940 actively engage in reflective practice. 00:00:46.420 --> 00:00:51.520 In her newest publication, Leading with a Lens of Inquiry, she outlines the ways 00:00:51.530 --> 00:00:57.439 in which leaders need to support and facilitate teachers in the same ways in 00:00:57.520 --> 00:01:00.079 which teachers engage with their students. 00:01:00.549 --> 00:01:02.750 Welcome to Blooming Curious, Jessica Vance. 00:01:02.770 --> 00:01:05.230 It's awesome to have you on Blooming Curious. 00:01:05.945 --> 00:01:06.805 Thank you so much. 00:01:06.805 --> 00:01:08.345 It's nice to be here. 00:01:08.395 --> 00:01:12.905 Um, of course, getting to connect with you virtually is always a treat. 00:01:12.905 --> 00:01:14.015 So it's been a minute. 00:01:14.024 --> 00:01:15.115 So happy to be here, Edwina. 00:01:15.780 --> 00:01:23.290 And isn't it wonderful having, you know, I'm, I'm a bit anti technology for many 00:01:23.290 --> 00:01:28.720 reasons when it comes to kids, but I'm just loving the fact that we can connect 00:01:28.970 --> 00:01:32.769 and you can connect with so many other like minded people across the world. 00:01:33.080 --> 00:01:38.500 That's just, for me, an incredible, amazing thing that technology gives us. 00:01:39.000 --> 00:01:39.690 Jess, let's start out. 00:01:41.180 --> 00:01:45.250 I've just read out your very impressive bio, but I'd love to share, 00:01:46.310 --> 00:01:50.860 I'd love you to share with us how your passion for inquiry started. 00:01:51.230 --> 00:01:55.010 What started this journey for you that's led you to where you are now? 00:01:56.435 --> 00:02:01.825 Yeah, so, you know, the best laid plans actually never come to be, right? 00:02:02.405 --> 00:02:06.625 I started in a traditional school, um, at a private school, actually, in,, 00:02:06.654 --> 00:02:10.714 Southern California, and,, my husband and I ended up moving to Austin, 00:02:10.714 --> 00:02:15.104 Texas, and I found myself teaching, IB, which I didn't know what it was 00:02:15.144 --> 00:02:17.274 at the time,, at an elementary school. 00:02:18.209 --> 00:02:20.889 I remember being interviewed and the principal was like, 00:02:20.909 --> 00:02:22.259 It's just best practice. 00:02:22.259 --> 00:02:22.849 You'll love it. 00:02:23.279 --> 00:02:25.209 And I didn't know what I was jumping into. 00:02:25.209 --> 00:02:30.139 And boy oh boy did I jump head first and loved how non traditional it was. 00:02:30.149 --> 00:02:33.489 My head was spinning with, you know, just the different approach and ways 00:02:33.489 --> 00:02:37.934 to,, But figure out how do I unlearn all the things that I thought that I 00:02:37.934 --> 00:02:41.794 knew about teaching, and relearn, , a different approach to my practice. 00:02:41.794 --> 00:02:45.924 So started to teach in elementary classroom, grade 00:02:45.934 --> 00:02:48.164 five, and then also grade three. 00:02:48.904 --> 00:02:52.884 And, you know, I was always really inspired by leaders ever since I was a 00:02:52.884 --> 00:02:56.894 student teacher and so knew that that was something that I eventually wanted to grow 00:02:56.894 --> 00:03:03.654 into and, um, had the opportunity to be an IB coordinator at another IB school. 00:03:03.904 --> 00:03:06.404 And so got to stretch my wings in that way. 00:03:06.444 --> 00:03:09.104 And, um, again, just kind of. 00:03:09.649 --> 00:03:13.859 Leading adults in the same way that I was facilitating learning in the classroom 00:03:13.859 --> 00:03:18.879 just felt really natural and normal , my principal at the time, you know, I really 00:03:18.879 --> 00:03:20.719 appreciate her feedback that first year. 00:03:20.719 --> 00:03:22.869 She's like, I don't really have any feedback to give you. 00:03:22.869 --> 00:03:25.579 And I said, you know, I was like itching for more, like, tell me 00:03:25.579 --> 00:03:26.929 more, like, how can I get better? 00:03:26.929 --> 00:03:27.939 What are things going to learn? 00:03:28.349 --> 00:03:31.249 And she's like, you know, you just seem to really naturally fall into it. 00:03:31.259 --> 00:03:34.399 And I think I just like I did with students in the classroom 00:03:34.399 --> 00:03:37.839 is really attuned to adult learners and really became 00:03:38.184 --> 00:03:40.474 curious to lead and learn alongside them. 00:03:40.634 --> 00:03:45.144 And so, uh, have, you know, taken leadership and of course authored a 00:03:45.144 --> 00:03:50.444 book because of that and have gotten to take authorship and consultancy and 00:03:50.444 --> 00:03:54.574 leadership around the globe, which is, gosh, again, nothing I quite imagined 00:03:54.594 --> 00:03:56.034 when I thought about being a leader. 00:03:57.554 --> 00:04:01.844 I loved how you've, you know, you've explained how you just naturally fell 00:04:01.844 --> 00:04:07.124 into this whole role, you know, I interviewed Claire Warden , a few weeks 00:04:07.124 --> 00:04:12.054 ago, actually, and we were talking about curiosity, and she was saying, 00:04:12.799 --> 00:04:17.759 about supporting those of us or those colleagues who, she said, some people 00:04:17.759 --> 00:04:22.299 would, just naturally, like you just said yourself, you just naturally are 00:04:22.309 --> 00:04:27.099 that way inclined and other people need more support, which is, I think, where 00:04:27.099 --> 00:04:29.629 you coming in with your coordinator role. 00:04:30.219 --> 00:04:35.469 So you're very much, Jess, you're very much the expert on inquiry based 00:04:35.469 --> 00:04:39.739 learning and learning walls specifically. 00:04:40.479 --> 00:04:43.849 And now I want to put my hand up and just say that I have 00:04:43.989 --> 00:04:47.759 actually never used learning walls in the way that you do them. 00:04:48.339 --> 00:04:52.509 I've always used floor books more for sharing the learning journey and planning. 00:04:53.239 --> 00:04:55.719 But I'd love you to talk us through the process. 00:04:57.184 --> 00:05:02.604 of learning walls and how educators that haven't used them, for 00:05:02.604 --> 00:05:04.574 example, can get started in them. 00:05:05.544 --> 00:05:08.274 Because if, you know, we, I think there's a distinction, right? 00:05:08.304 --> 00:05:10.614 Between a learning wall and a display. 00:05:10.914 --> 00:05:14.384 So I think many of us have done displays, but a learning wall 00:05:14.384 --> 00:05:15.794 is something totally different. 00:05:15.824 --> 00:05:20.214 And how do those learning walls connect to inquiry? 00:05:20.979 --> 00:05:25.189 Yeah, so I'm currently writing this publication all about learning walls 00:05:25.209 --> 00:05:29.359 because there's so many things to unpack and to be honest, Edwina, you know, 00:05:29.359 --> 00:05:32.669 when I say that I follow the learners and attune to them, this was not my 00:05:32.669 --> 00:05:34.459 original plan for my second book. 00:05:35.329 --> 00:05:39.429 Um, but really, again, just listening to the questions and seeing where 00:05:39.429 --> 00:05:41.679 they take us or have taken me. 00:05:42.019 --> 00:05:45.009 So again, of course, lots to unpack that I'm excited to be able 00:05:45.009 --> 00:05:46.679 to release later on this year. 00:05:46.709 --> 00:05:52.419 But as it relates to learning walls, again, it came from my learners. 00:05:53.049 --> 00:05:57.339 , I was working with a couple of first grade teachers, at the IB school. 00:05:57.864 --> 00:06:02.024 And we're reflecting on a unit of inquiry, and they felt really frustrated that 00:06:02.024 --> 00:06:05.274 students weren't making transdisciplinary connections, and they couldn't 00:06:05.274 --> 00:06:07.574 figure out why they couldn't do it. 00:06:07.984 --> 00:06:12.404 , and it was a really dynamic and very open minded team, to be honest, really 00:06:12.404 --> 00:06:15.834 willing to take risks and try new things and honestly ask that question. 00:06:16.304 --> 00:06:19.944 And so honestly, when they asked that question, I responded to 00:06:19.944 --> 00:06:21.884 them in a question as I often do. 00:06:21.884 --> 00:06:26.134 And I said, well, what would happen if we took all of the learning that you have 00:06:26.134 --> 00:06:30.004 surrounding the classroom and instead of having a math wall or reading wall, a 00:06:30.004 --> 00:06:32.504 science wall, we put it into one space. 00:06:32.514 --> 00:06:38.104 So that way it drew us towards a wall and that we continue to use it as a tool. 00:06:38.204 --> 00:06:42.564 This is not something so foreign to the I. B. If you have listeners who are familiar 00:06:42.564 --> 00:06:46.264 with the I. B. There's usually an I. B. board or your I. B. unit of inquiry, 00:06:46.264 --> 00:06:52.034 and I definitely had an I. B. unit of inquiry wall as well that I did not take 00:06:52.034 --> 00:06:54.054 advantage of, and it was more display. 00:06:54.054 --> 00:06:55.814 It was definitely not a learning wall. 00:06:57.214 --> 00:07:01.134 And so, you know, , I, if somebody says what is a learning wall, how 00:07:01.134 --> 00:07:06.114 is it different to a display, I'd say, you know, it's another tool 00:07:06.114 --> 00:07:10.664 that we can use to leverage and document and celebrate and show that 00:07:10.664 --> 00:07:12.214 we value the process of learning. 00:07:12.554 --> 00:07:17.394 A display usually is that end product or that final piece of writing 00:07:17.394 --> 00:07:19.284 or maybe some beautiful artwork. 00:07:19.524 --> 00:07:24.844 Or a collection of photos, um, and it's usually a single handed effort, right? 00:07:24.844 --> 00:07:28.404 Or maybe we grab some of our colleagues to help us staple 00:07:28.424 --> 00:07:29.764 some of the artifacts up there. 00:07:30.104 --> 00:07:32.474 But it's usually one vision, one direction. 00:07:32.724 --> 00:07:36.984 , and there's nothing wrong with a display, but, , just like, uh, Reggio 00:07:36.984 --> 00:07:41.054 Emilia,, research, says that space really is a third teacher, and it's 00:07:41.054 --> 00:07:45.724 a missed opportunity for us to not leverage our walls as an opportunity 00:07:45.724 --> 00:07:50.024 to be able to support and co construct the learning alongside, , our 00:07:50.024 --> 00:07:53.754 little or big learners, if you will, throughout our units of inquiry. 00:07:53.764 --> 00:07:58.339 So, I would say that's probably the qualifier of what it is or what it 00:07:58.369 --> 00:08:01.029 isn't, and where the idea came from. 00:08:01.069 --> 00:08:03.459 Again, always responding to learners. 00:08:04.009 --> 00:08:06.139 You had asked though, how do you get started? 00:08:06.139 --> 00:08:11.389 Yeah, so I'd say, um, and you know from facilitating learning together 00:08:11.489 --> 00:08:14.699 and getting to engage with one another that setting an intention. 00:08:14.709 --> 00:08:17.059 So what's your intention for this space? 00:08:17.399 --> 00:08:23.159 Is it to be able to, focus on an entire unit of inquiry that lasts a 00:08:23.159 --> 00:08:26.019 span of six weeks centered on a concept? 00:08:26.349 --> 00:08:29.679 Are you really trying to, harness? 00:08:30.334 --> 00:08:31.764 Uh, vocabulary. 00:08:31.784 --> 00:08:37.504 And do you want to have tiered vocabulary wall that is still rooted in the 00:08:37.504 --> 00:08:41.014 attendance of a learning wall, but is really something that's co constructed, 00:08:41.294 --> 00:08:43.454 um, together alongside your learners? 00:08:43.654 --> 00:08:47.164 As a school leader, , I create several different learning walls, 00:08:47.214 --> 00:08:51.874 both with, administrators on the same team, school learning wall, 00:08:51.874 --> 00:08:55.114 if you will, to document the school learning that we're doing together. 00:08:55.394 --> 00:08:59.464 And then, , a couple of additional learning walls this year have bubbled up. 00:08:59.484 --> 00:09:02.994 I've been doing some support work for our educational assistants this year. 00:09:03.254 --> 00:09:06.084 So they have their own learning wall that's documenting the things 00:09:06.094 --> 00:09:07.494 that we're unpacking together. 00:09:07.834 --> 00:09:12.929 And then, The fourth wall in that space that I share is for 00:09:12.979 --> 00:09:16.819 our grade level leaders and developing their leadership skills. 00:09:16.999 --> 00:09:20.349 And so the walls interchange based off of the learning and 00:09:20.349 --> 00:09:21.499 things that are unfolding. 00:09:21.499 --> 00:09:24.339 So an intention is the first step. 00:09:24.864 --> 00:09:26.674 , and how do you do that? 00:09:26.704 --> 00:09:30.214 You know, I, I worked with a leader just last week and he printed off an email. 00:09:30.624 --> 00:09:35.434 And then there was a teacher who grabbed an artifact from a provocation , and then 00:09:35.434 --> 00:09:39.184 there's another , leader that I worked with who grabbed a sketch note and that 00:09:39.184 --> 00:09:40.714 was going to be the start of their wall. 00:09:40.724 --> 00:09:45.024 So the intention is set and then choosing an artifact to anchor and 00:09:45.024 --> 00:09:49.234 build off of would be first two starts, I'd say, for your listeners. 00:09:50.209 --> 00:09:56.689 Gosh, as you were talking there, my brain started racing and I kind of thought 00:09:56.689 --> 00:10:00.929 about this almost a spider web on a wall. 00:10:01.609 --> 00:10:02.149 I love that. 00:10:02.159 --> 00:10:04.089 Where you would be connecting, right? 00:10:04.139 --> 00:10:08.009 Because as you were saying about making cross curricular connections. 00:10:08.399 --> 00:10:13.829 So you could really make it visible for students is how this unit of work actually 00:10:13.839 --> 00:10:19.599 links to their English narrative or their persuasive text or whatever it is that 00:10:19.599 --> 00:10:27.539 they're writing, as well as vocabulary, as well as perhaps even their art or 00:10:27.589 --> 00:10:29.869 experiments or whatever it might be. 00:10:30.789 --> 00:10:34.869 And as you've been talking, I've been sort of thinking, Oh, geez, that 00:10:34.869 --> 00:10:39.449 would be a nice thing to start because very often, and I think this is where 00:10:40.064 --> 00:10:46.514 inquiry is so powerful is that it makes these cross curricular connections. 00:10:46.874 --> 00:10:51.304 So we're always, and I'm sure even there where you are, there's so 00:10:51.494 --> 00:10:53.194 much to cover in the curriculum. 00:10:53.734 --> 00:10:57.294 And so for me, inquiry does that. 00:10:57.619 --> 00:11:04.879 It goes cross curricular and you can tick off multiple boxes with one thing, and 00:11:04.879 --> 00:11:10.119 you can get through the curriculum so much easier and so much quicker when you 00:11:10.129 --> 00:11:12.389 have these cross curricular connections. 00:11:13.009 --> 00:11:17.589 And for young children, especially, they often don't see those connections. 00:11:18.019 --> 00:11:19.409 Why do we have to do this? 00:11:19.419 --> 00:11:21.189 You know, we're never going to do this in our lives. 00:11:21.189 --> 00:11:27.044 And we're Adults, but yes, you actually are and I think just you speaking my 00:11:27.054 --> 00:11:33.824 brain started racing and obviously this is a great way to make learning visible. 00:11:33.874 --> 00:11:37.204 I think for teachers, having those learning walls in your staff room, for 00:11:37.204 --> 00:11:42.334 example, it's not in a, it's not in a document, you know, online anymore. 00:11:42.344 --> 00:11:45.664 It's not, and correct me if I'm wrong, so it's not like, , you've 00:11:45.664 --> 00:11:47.834 got this policy in a file somewhere. 00:11:48.124 --> 00:11:49.304 It's actually visible. 00:11:49.534 --> 00:11:55.504 So educators would be able to see their journey and where the school, 00:11:55.544 --> 00:12:00.054 the culture of the school, where they want to take The school as a whole. 00:12:00.644 --> 00:12:04.484 So I think that's just mind boggling and I can't understand why we don't 00:12:04.484 --> 00:12:06.354 do more of that, quite frankly. 00:12:07.404 --> 00:12:10.324 Yeah, yeah, it's unlearning and relearning, right? 00:12:10.324 --> 00:12:12.524 It's just, when we're just humans, right? 00:12:12.524 --> 00:12:14.449 And we have that lizard brain and so when we get sick. 00:12:15.019 --> 00:12:17.659 Um, and of course, teachers have a lot of things on their plate. 00:12:17.659 --> 00:12:20.739 We're going to revert to the things that are habits or ways that we 00:12:20.759 --> 00:12:22.789 experienced, teaching and learning. 00:12:22.789 --> 00:12:27.699 So, of course, it's at no fault of, of teachers or leaders for not being able 00:12:27.699 --> 00:12:32.309 to slow down the transaction of learning, if you will, and create a space to make 00:12:32.339 --> 00:12:36.209 the thinking visible, of course, you know, I have to think about Ron Richard 00:12:36.209 --> 00:12:39.464 and Mark Church and the work that they do with Project Zero and so forth. 00:12:39.834 --> 00:12:40.904 Their publications. 00:12:41.334 --> 00:12:46.874 So really, it's taking that idea of making and keeping our thinking visible. 00:12:47.174 --> 00:12:49.174 And what happens when we do that? 00:12:49.184 --> 00:12:52.284 How might we see these cross curricular connections? 00:12:52.504 --> 00:12:55.584 And like you said, get to those deeper learning opportunities that we would 00:12:55.584 --> 00:12:58.794 have missed if we were just ticking off the boxes of our curriculum, 00:12:59.284 --> 00:13:01.954 and working smarter and not harder. 00:13:02.469 --> 00:13:06.829 I love to, you know, nudge leaders to really anchor their learning wall 00:13:06.839 --> 00:13:10.799 on their vision statement for their school, because if we're co constructing 00:13:10.799 --> 00:13:13.979 a vision statement together, then we should be really living and breathing 00:13:13.979 --> 00:13:17.049 that and working towards what that could look like and sound like. 00:13:17.339 --> 00:13:22.399 So I love to nudge leaders to consider what that might look like as you are 00:13:22.594 --> 00:13:27.044 Delving into PL together or exploring kind of different things, or even just 00:13:27.304 --> 00:13:32.004 mandated things, if you will, from the district or from other government bodies. 00:13:32.284 --> 00:13:36.604 How might you take that and think about it through the lens and the frame of 00:13:36.604 --> 00:13:38.514 the things that you value as a school? 00:13:40.074 --> 00:13:43.614 And, and, and I, again, I love that, that sentence stem of 00:13:43.614 --> 00:13:45.424 what happens when we, right? 00:13:45.424 --> 00:13:48.344 What happens when we put the learning and thinking on display? 00:13:48.634 --> 00:13:54.344 How might we come together as a community of learners and what things may we have 00:13:54.344 --> 00:13:59.374 missed because we kept it in a document or, you know, thrown it into some 00:13:59.424 --> 00:14:02.284 spreadsheet that we have forgotten about? 00:14:03.354 --> 00:14:04.364 That's very true. 00:14:04.364 --> 00:14:06.104 Now, listen, I'm partway through. 00:14:06.899 --> 00:14:07.729 your book here. 00:14:08.479 --> 00:14:09.249 Oh, thank you. 00:14:10.349 --> 00:14:14.949 And I have to say that I really liked the way that you propose that school 00:14:14.949 --> 00:14:20.389 leaders tackle their leadership role, especially with regards to cultivating 00:14:20.419 --> 00:14:24.439 a culture of curiosity and inquiry. 00:14:25.239 --> 00:14:30.069 Could you share with us first, I think you have touched on it, but the catalyst 00:14:30.479 --> 00:14:35.479 for your book or actually authoring the book, what made you think, well, 00:14:35.479 --> 00:14:37.419 you know what, let me write a book. 00:14:37.419 --> 00:14:44.899 Yeah, I think over the years, others that I coached or, led alongside 00:14:45.379 --> 00:14:50.069 have always made some sort of really, positive claims or comments about the 00:14:50.069 --> 00:14:55.249 way that I, facilitated learning or sat with them as they were planning 00:14:55.249 --> 00:14:56.949 or reflecting on units of inquiry. 00:14:57.199 --> 00:15:00.599 And I kind of just fluffed it off as like, well, doesn't everybody do this isn't what 00:15:00.599 --> 00:15:03.019 we do as coaches and as we do as leaders. 00:15:03.429 --> 00:15:08.459 , and the more that I heard that, the more I realized that it's not the norm, and 00:15:08.459 --> 00:15:12.469 that while well intentioned, um, there are pressures that leaders feel, and 00:15:12.469 --> 00:15:16.499 even coaches feel, and they get stuck in their own kind of rat race, if you will. 00:15:16.949 --> 00:15:21.119 And so I actually had a friend of mine, who you probably know, Trevor McKenzie, 00:15:21.329 --> 00:15:25.159 make a mention, and he said, you know, it might be worth writing about. 00:15:25.189 --> 00:15:27.329 And I kind of, again, just said, oh, I don't really know, 00:15:27.329 --> 00:15:28.679 I can't write anything about it. 00:15:29.449 --> 00:15:32.919 Ended up sitting with a different colleague of mine at another school 00:15:32.929 --> 00:15:36.919 who I was a leader with and we just started to just jot down stories and 00:15:36.919 --> 00:15:40.849 then all of a sudden we realized we had a legal pad of paper of all these 00:15:40.849 --> 00:15:44.419 different stories of all these different ways that we saw our leadership. 00:15:44.649 --> 00:15:46.919 in a different lens and landscape. 00:15:46.919 --> 00:15:51.779 So that was the start of just little seeds that people were planting. 00:15:51.799 --> 00:15:56.719 And then of course, that imposter syndrome that we all have, um, and 00:15:56.719 --> 00:15:59.349 just kind of pushing that to the side and just kind of seeing if 00:15:59.349 --> 00:16:00.919 this might be something to explore. 00:16:00.919 --> 00:16:05.099 And man, oh man, did I learn so much about myself through writing the book Edwina. 00:16:05.199 --> 00:16:06.539 You think you do know. 00:16:07.019 --> 00:16:07.769 Who you are. 00:16:07.769 --> 00:16:11.969 And then you write a book, and you have to peel back all these layers and ask 00:16:11.969 --> 00:16:14.039 yourself some really hard questions. 00:16:14.289 --> 00:16:18.219 And then also, , I'll say it again, is I go back to the teachers and my learners 00:16:18.219 --> 00:16:19.989 and I ask them specific questions. 00:16:19.994 --> 00:16:21.279 What felt different for you? 00:16:21.429 --> 00:16:24.489 What did this look like compared to other learning experiences? 00:16:24.699 --> 00:16:27.549 Can you even get more, specific around that? 00:16:27.549 --> 00:16:30.189 And so getting feedback from learners was a very vulnerable 00:16:30.189 --> 00:16:31.869 experience to be able to ask for. 00:16:32.424 --> 00:16:33.954 Because you don't always know what you're going to get. 00:16:34.434 --> 00:16:39.864 But, hearing their feedback helped me reflect on the ways that perhaps I was 00:16:39.884 --> 00:16:44.284 leading differently, and then also what I wanted to inspire other leaders to do. 00:16:44.634 --> 00:16:47.654 And of course, I was inspired by other amazing leaders. 00:16:47.654 --> 00:16:51.194 When we jumped on this call, I said I lead alongside a really amazing principal. 00:16:51.504 --> 00:16:55.614 And, She's somebody that I continue to lead and learn alongside as well. 00:16:55.614 --> 00:16:58.824 So being able to take all those little parts and pieces into the 00:16:58.824 --> 00:17:03.654 writing was something that continued to make it grow into the publication 00:17:03.654 --> 00:17:04.724 that you have in your hand. 00:17:05.304 --> 00:17:11.584 I'm just thinking when we sit as teachers, sometimes you want to be led. 00:17:12.044 --> 00:17:15.394 Sometimes I think teachers just want someone just to tell them. 00:17:16.269 --> 00:17:17.959 This is the road you have to take. 00:17:18.439 --> 00:17:23.159 And I think as teachers we do need that leading from the front, so to speak. 00:17:24.089 --> 00:17:27.899 But at the same time, I think leaders also need to, as you've 00:17:27.899 --> 00:17:31.069 just said, ask the questions. 00:17:31.839 --> 00:17:32.629 How are you feeling? 00:17:32.659 --> 00:17:34.029 How are you thinking about this? 00:17:34.039 --> 00:17:35.499 How might we do this? 00:17:35.509 --> 00:17:36.569 What do you think will happen? 00:17:36.569 --> 00:17:36.989 When? 00:17:37.459 --> 00:17:42.239 And I think perhaps, Maybe that needs to happen more often, especially, if 00:17:42.239 --> 00:17:47.249 schools are on a journey, and they have an end point in mind, maybe they're 00:17:47.259 --> 00:17:52.059 changing their culture, or they want to improve outcomes, whatever it might be. 00:17:52.899 --> 00:17:54.809 Everybody has to be on the same page. 00:17:55.159 --> 00:18:01.969 So I think, When you're leading from a position of asking rather than telling, 00:18:02.349 --> 00:18:08.349 that could be really powerful for teachers because then they feel part of the team. 00:18:08.349 --> 00:18:12.329 They feel seen and heard, which I think very often teachers don't. 00:18:12.359 --> 00:18:17.189 We just had yesterday here in Western Australia, a teacher strike, for example, 00:18:17.759 --> 00:18:20.579 I think that comes from not being seen and not being heard. 00:18:20.579 --> 00:18:27.279 So, going forward for teachers to feel valued and validated is 00:18:27.279 --> 00:18:32.499 something that, Is really important for education as a whole, yeah, 00:18:32.609 --> 00:18:36.579 everybody wants to feel seen and that's probably why you're drawn to an inquiry 00:18:36.579 --> 00:18:40.479 based approach to teaching, of course, and learning in the classroom space. 00:18:40.929 --> 00:18:43.499 And as leaders, we need to model the model, right? 00:18:43.549 --> 00:18:46.369 If our teachers are not feeling empowered, how do they know 00:18:46.369 --> 00:18:47.879 how to empower their students? 00:18:48.219 --> 00:18:50.889 If our teachers are not feeling curious. 00:18:51.304 --> 00:18:54.884 How are they going to cultivate and create spaces of curiosity in their classroom? 00:18:55.334 --> 00:18:59.364 So I think that phrase, model the model, although quite simplified, 00:18:59.654 --> 00:19:04.074 is really something to hang our hats on and to consider that if we want 00:19:04.074 --> 00:19:08.884 this for others, then we need to be, , acting in those spaces as well too. 00:19:09.234 --> 00:19:11.884 And, it's a learner centered approach as well, right? 00:19:11.884 --> 00:19:16.399 Inquiry is a learner centered approach to Teaching and learning, and so is 00:19:16.399 --> 00:19:21.529 leading in this mindset, and yes, teachers definitely want to feel seen 00:19:21.529 --> 00:19:25.229 and empowered and have that sense of agency, which oftentimes you know that 00:19:25.229 --> 00:19:27.319 they don't, and we don't as educators. 00:19:27.884 --> 00:19:31.074 And I, and I'd really say that it also needs to be something that's 00:19:31.074 --> 00:19:32.614 looked at outside of education. 00:19:32.644 --> 00:19:37.574 This should be a model that leaders all over should be leading, right? 00:19:37.604 --> 00:19:42.854 Instead of tasking and telling, it's asking and facilitating and providing 00:19:42.854 --> 00:19:47.764 opportunities for us all to be able to flex, , dispositions and competencies. 00:19:48.234 --> 00:19:51.264 , I've been really, gosh, I can't get through it fast enough. 00:19:51.494 --> 00:19:56.674 Adam Grant's newest publication, , Hidden Potential, , I just am underlining, 00:19:56.684 --> 00:20:01.444 highlighting, , he even opens the book with what happens when we cultivate and 00:20:01.444 --> 00:20:06.254 create spaces with competency development in mind in a kindergarten space, and 00:20:06.254 --> 00:20:08.074 he shows the research behind that. 00:20:08.429 --> 00:20:12.959 And I love that's how he starts the book and he's talking about the importance of 00:20:12.959 --> 00:20:17.059 this and so developing competencies or giving opportunities for that competency 00:20:17.059 --> 00:20:18.609 development for our teachers is. 00:20:19.019 --> 00:20:22.989 Something that I am here for the long haul and is my passion. 00:20:22.989 --> 00:20:24.779 Of course, it's the work that I get to do. 00:20:24.819 --> 00:20:26.599 So I couldn't agree more. 00:20:27.449 --> 00:20:30.729 And I think teachers really need that support, especially when it comes to 00:20:30.739 --> 00:20:34.929 inquiry, because it's not something that you learn at university, and 00:20:34.979 --> 00:20:38.639 coming back to your book, because you've actually adapted in the 00:20:38.639 --> 00:20:40.759 book, Kath Murdoch's inquiry cycle. 00:20:40.939 --> 00:20:45.409 And you use that very cycle that teachers use with students. 00:20:45.789 --> 00:20:49.089 You use them as leaders with your teachers. 00:20:50.159 --> 00:20:54.629 So that was very interesting because you actually taking teachers through that 00:20:54.629 --> 00:20:59.419 inquiry cycle, through the tuning in, the finding out, the whole process, right? 00:21:00.419 --> 00:21:06.164 Did that happen by accident or did you just think, well, let's just apply Cath 00:21:06.164 --> 00:21:09.424 Murdoch's inquiry cycle , to teachers. 00:21:10.504 --> 00:21:14.954 Yeah, it actually happened because I was, um, asked by my principal 00:21:14.954 --> 00:21:19.694 to facilitate a parent information session on inquiry and, , IB. 00:21:20.384 --> 00:21:24.344 And I had never led a parent information session and I knew I didn't want 00:21:24.344 --> 00:21:28.434 to just, , tell because it just was going to feel like robotic and it's 00:21:28.434 --> 00:21:30.579 not the heart of what inquiry was. 00:21:30.579 --> 00:21:34.829 I knew I wanted the parents to feel it and within the IB and also 00:21:34.829 --> 00:21:38.289 education, of course, there's so much jargon and language and I didn't 00:21:38.289 --> 00:21:43.699 want that to take away the beauty and the amazing things that I saw in 00:21:43.699 --> 00:21:45.439 the classroom and I knew was there. 00:21:46.379 --> 00:21:51.279 So honestly, what I did is I took half Murdoch cycle and I thought about what 00:21:51.279 --> 00:21:54.939 we were going to be unpacking and I would write down on little sticky notes 00:21:55.289 --> 00:21:57.359 what activity or what thing it was. 00:21:57.699 --> 00:22:02.439 And I placed it along the cycle and I had all these like little stickies on 00:22:02.439 --> 00:22:07.149 this sheet of paper and just kind of noticed that that was a frame that could 00:22:07.149 --> 00:22:12.419 help take the parents and experience inquiry in an hour, if you will. 00:22:12.964 --> 00:22:17.114 But how that provided almost a safe hold, if you will, that's what I loved 00:22:17.114 --> 00:22:21.064 about her cycle and I continue to love about it is it gives me an entry point 00:22:21.074 --> 00:22:22.684 to figure out what should I be doing? 00:22:22.684 --> 00:22:26.134 What kind of thinking do I need to be thinking about or guiding 00:22:26.134 --> 00:22:27.824 or facilitating for learners? 00:22:28.134 --> 00:22:32.314 So for me, it provides a structure of safety when, like you said, inquiry is 00:22:32.314 --> 00:22:35.804 very ambiguous and it can go all these different places and it's really hard. 00:22:36.154 --> 00:22:38.694 But it was with parents first and using it. 00:22:38.694 --> 00:22:40.734 And so I continue to use it to this day. 00:22:41.054 --> 00:22:44.594 , again, in all my coaching work with leaders or helping coaches design 00:22:44.594 --> 00:22:48.094 professional development, I usually will say, you know, what kind of thinking 00:22:48.094 --> 00:22:49.674 do you want your learners to engage in? 00:22:49.684 --> 00:22:53.704 How might you create spaces for them to sort and make connections and collaborate? 00:22:54.054 --> 00:22:57.914 And we referenced that cycle and we use that cycle as a frame for planning 00:22:57.914 --> 00:22:59.484 professional development as well. 00:22:59.484 --> 00:23:04.434 But that's where it came to be, uh, again, responding to the moment and 00:23:04.434 --> 00:23:05.904 to the learners and what they needed. 00:23:07.564 --> 00:23:11.724 And I hope that our listeners have picked up on what an inquiry person 00:23:11.734 --> 00:23:16.484 does, because everything you say is actually a question, right? 00:23:16.514 --> 00:23:18.934 How might you, why, how, where? 00:23:19.794 --> 00:23:23.134 And that's how an inquiry specialist functions. 00:23:23.144 --> 00:23:25.614 We function on questions. 00:23:25.634 --> 00:23:27.684 That's the food that feeds us. 00:23:27.964 --> 00:23:33.114 And it's how we get kids to think for themselves , is asking them to 00:23:33.114 --> 00:23:38.444 consider the options, the opportunities, not telling them, but asking. 00:23:39.404 --> 00:23:40.584 And I think that's how we get. 00:23:41.089 --> 00:23:50.249 People thinking and collaborating and getting more involved in the whole inquiry 00:23:51.059 --> 00:23:55.879 process, because so often, and I've even seen it in kids and um, one of my 00:23:55.879 --> 00:24:01.329 colleagues was doing relief at a school and she was going, all these kids wanted 00:24:01.329 --> 00:24:02.679 was for me just to give them the answer. 00:24:02.679 --> 00:24:04.639 So what do I have to do to get the marks? 00:24:05.309 --> 00:24:07.909 Well, , what learning is that, right? 00:24:07.939 --> 00:24:12.029 If you only have to do something to get the marks, there's no depth to 00:24:12.029 --> 00:24:16.869 that, because you're just going to be regurgitating what the educator says 00:24:17.199 --> 00:24:18.969 so that you can get a certain grade. 00:24:19.779 --> 00:24:24.559 And so, obviously There must be a culture there of we just feed you this 00:24:24.569 --> 00:24:26.699 information and then you regurgitate it. 00:24:27.229 --> 00:24:28.979 That to me is not education. 00:24:29.469 --> 00:24:33.509 Anybody, you don't even have to have a degree in education, you can just 00:24:33.509 --> 00:24:37.589 walk into a classroom, pick that up, read from a script, off you go. 00:24:38.179 --> 00:24:39.629 That's not education. 00:24:39.629 --> 00:24:42.939 That's not why kids are in our classrooms. 00:24:43.939 --> 00:24:46.619 They're there for us to help them think. 00:24:46.874 --> 00:24:52.274 question, find answers, find bias, all these kinds of things. 00:24:52.274 --> 00:24:58.034 So, I think the questioning has to become a part of your culture. 00:24:58.044 --> 00:25:01.224 You have to learn to ask questions all the time. 00:25:01.474 --> 00:25:04.604 And so that's just come through for me so strongly with 00:25:04.604 --> 00:25:07.114 you, that innate questioning. 00:25:07.364 --> 00:25:09.024 That's inside you. 00:25:09.024 --> 00:25:09.494 Yeah. 00:25:09.704 --> 00:25:12.514 Shifting the question culture, right? 00:25:12.544 --> 00:25:15.034 And that questions don't have to always have an answer. 00:25:15.264 --> 00:25:18.934 But again, our human lizard brain is like searching for an answer, searching for 00:25:18.934 --> 00:25:20.974 an answer to try to make that meaning. 00:25:21.294 --> 00:25:24.074 So yeah, like unlearning what that is, , is tricky. 00:25:24.074 --> 00:25:26.604 And of course, as an inquiry educator, you picked that right up. 00:25:26.624 --> 00:25:29.074 I definitely think in questions you've nailed that one. 00:25:29.074 --> 00:25:30.094 Yeah. 00:25:30.644 --> 00:25:34.574 I think in questions too, all the time, which is not always a good thing though, 00:25:34.644 --> 00:25:36.114 because sometimes you get into trouble. 00:25:37.484 --> 00:25:38.394 As you do. 00:25:39.244 --> 00:25:43.014 I remember in high school, my English teacher, as I approached the classroom, 00:25:43.014 --> 00:25:47.474 wanting to jump out of the window, because it, Oh, you again, it's 00:25:47.494 --> 00:25:49.254 me again, the one with questions. 00:25:50.864 --> 00:25:53.264 With all your years of working with teachers and leaders, 00:25:53.264 --> 00:25:57.754 Jess, what advice would you give both to teachers and leaders? 00:25:58.149 --> 00:26:02.019 when leading and teaching with the lens of inquiry? 00:26:02.419 --> 00:26:08.024 Because I'm very big on curiosity because I think And I see it every day. 00:26:08.524 --> 00:26:10.384 We're losing our curiosity. 00:26:10.594 --> 00:26:12.444 It's, it's apparent everywhere. 00:26:12.484 --> 00:26:15.284 You see it in the media, you see it in our classrooms. 00:26:15.794 --> 00:26:18.464 Obviously curiosity is innate in children. 00:26:18.884 --> 00:26:22.614 And as they progress through schools, they become less and less curious to 00:26:22.614 --> 00:26:25.764 the point where they're saying, you know, just give me the work so that I 00:26:25.764 --> 00:26:27.364 can just finish it and get on with it. 00:26:28.504 --> 00:26:34.644 But what advice would you give us and to leaders When they teach with this 00:26:34.654 --> 00:26:41.104 lens of inquiry or that with this inquiry approach that we can better 00:26:41.234 --> 00:26:47.884 nurture curiosity in our children, but also curiosity in our adults, in 00:26:47.884 --> 00:26:49.764 our teachers, and even in our parents. 00:26:51.604 --> 00:26:54.794 Yeah, gosh, that is quite the question, isn't it, Edwina? 00:26:54.944 --> 00:26:58.254 , and I, of course, I probably will answer you in three questions. 00:27:00.864 --> 00:27:03.284 Yes, just because there's a depth and complexity. 00:27:03.284 --> 00:27:07.674 You know, I think when I first jumped to inquiry, because it was so overwhelming 00:27:07.674 --> 00:27:13.645 and so new, Asking questions wasn't giving me answers fast enough, , because 00:27:13.645 --> 00:27:16.445 I was looking for the thing, just like you said, is tell me this thing, 00:27:16.475 --> 00:27:18.275 is this thing the inquiry thing now? 00:27:18.275 --> 00:27:18.855 Is it now? 00:27:18.855 --> 00:27:19.315 Is it now? 00:27:19.315 --> 00:27:19.865 Is it now? 00:27:20.395 --> 00:27:25.905 And in my experience, both as a classroom teacher, and then of course later and 00:27:25.905 --> 00:27:31.095 facilitating learning for adults as well, , really I think about three questions, and 00:27:31.095 --> 00:27:36.150 no matter where you are in your inquiry journey, As an educator in the classroom 00:27:36.150 --> 00:27:42.070 or as a leader, these three questions tend to give us a depth and breadth to explore, 00:27:42.270 --> 00:27:46.530 um, and differentiate quite naturally, and the first question is, where might we 00:27:46.530 --> 00:27:49.060 create opportunities for collaboration? 00:27:49.830 --> 00:27:52.480 And of course that could be in collaborative structures, a turn and 00:27:52.480 --> 00:27:56.490 talk, the way that you're organizing your spaces or your rooms, like, 00:27:56.930 --> 00:28:00.250 even just that question alone, if you're a listener, like, jot 00:28:00.250 --> 00:28:02.090 that down and what comes to mind. 00:28:02.090 --> 00:28:02.210 Thanks. 00:28:02.695 --> 00:28:03.015 Right? 00:28:03.025 --> 00:28:05.965 Because we know that inquiry happens together, and so how 00:28:05.975 --> 00:28:07.275 might we do that together? 00:28:07.275 --> 00:28:09.585 So where are we creating spaces for collaboration? 00:28:10.055 --> 00:28:15.345 , how might we co construct understanding, uh, together is question number two. 00:28:15.755 --> 00:28:18.835 And of course, constructivism comes to mind, I'm sure. 00:28:19.155 --> 00:28:22.395 , how can we step back so that way our learners can step forward? 00:28:22.670 --> 00:28:25.590 What are the different tools and structures that we have within our 00:28:25.590 --> 00:28:30.610 tool belt that create those spaces for our learners to be able to walk 00:28:30.620 --> 00:28:35.040 through, if you will, the inquiry cycle, or to utilize a thinking routine 00:28:35.050 --> 00:28:39.680 for us to be able to lift up and visualize the thinking that we see. 00:28:40.015 --> 00:28:43.765 To not jump in right away when there's a misconception that bubbles up, but 00:28:43.765 --> 00:28:48.345 instead use that as a provocation for the next day or for the next week. 00:28:48.675 --> 00:28:53.774 So that co construction piece again slows down the transaction of the 00:28:53.775 --> 00:28:59.105 doing of the product that we often get stuck in, and then creates a different 00:28:59.105 --> 00:29:03.655 intention for us to show up to the learning, to be that facilitator, to 00:29:03.655 --> 00:29:07.015 observe, to ask questions, to notice. 00:29:07.400 --> 00:29:10.680 And take in the learning that's unfolding before us. 00:29:10.950 --> 00:29:15.300 And if our learners can't Then that right there is where we start, right? 00:29:15.310 --> 00:29:18.230 That is the competency that we know that we need to develop. 00:29:18.860 --> 00:29:22.680 I'd say that the campus that I currently serve on five years ago, 00:29:22.970 --> 00:29:25.010 that co construction piece was hard. 00:29:25.040 --> 00:29:26.220 They just wanted the answers. 00:29:26.220 --> 00:29:27.410 Just tell me what to do, Jess. 00:29:27.410 --> 00:29:28.750 Just tell me, is this what you want? 00:29:28.780 --> 00:29:29.680 Is this what you want? 00:29:30.020 --> 00:29:31.690 And you probably wouldn't be surprised. 00:29:31.690 --> 00:29:35.120 I would not tell them the answer right away, but respond to them in a question. 00:29:35.555 --> 00:29:39.805 And know that that's going to give them skills that they're going 00:29:39.805 --> 00:29:44.165 to be able to take by far, wide and greater than me being there 00:29:44.165 --> 00:29:45.755 that day giving them the answer. 00:29:46.285 --> 00:29:49.505 Um, and then lastly, and this of course again is probably no 00:29:49.505 --> 00:29:54.525 surprise, is how might we document evidence and artifact the learning? 00:29:55.265 --> 00:29:58.105 And what does that tell us when we do that, right? 00:29:58.105 --> 00:29:59.915 So is it a collection of sticky notes? 00:30:01.060 --> 00:30:05.280 that have some questions on them, but instead of answering them, do we take a 00:30:05.280 --> 00:30:10.020 look at the landscape of questions and how are our learners asking questions? 00:30:10.250 --> 00:30:12.790 Is that a skill that we can develop with one another? 00:30:13.010 --> 00:30:17.850 I love to take a look at questions as a data set and not answer them, but just 00:30:17.870 --> 00:30:20.430 as kind of, you know, soaking them up. 00:30:20.430 --> 00:30:22.220 What does this tell me that my learners know? 00:30:22.220 --> 00:30:23.060 What don't they know? 00:30:23.060 --> 00:30:23.880 What could they know? 00:30:23.880 --> 00:30:24.990 Where could we go? 00:30:25.360 --> 00:30:28.820 What are some other skills that we can focus in on one another across 00:30:28.820 --> 00:30:30.330 the span of an academic year? 00:30:30.620 --> 00:30:33.990 Of course, Learning Walls speaks to that, , and even within that 00:30:33.990 --> 00:30:37.470 final question, like you hear the other two questions in there, right? 00:30:37.470 --> 00:30:40.900 Collaboration and that co construction should be part of that 00:30:40.920 --> 00:30:42.700 evidence and that documentation. 00:30:43.030 --> 00:30:46.540 And I find that those three questions, especially if you are newer to your 00:30:46.540 --> 00:30:50.680 practice, give you something to have as a checkmark, if you will, 00:30:50.750 --> 00:30:52.430 if you're doing inquiry, right? 00:30:52.470 --> 00:30:54.070 Okay, are my learners collaborating? 00:30:54.370 --> 00:30:56.600 Are we creating spaces of co construction? 00:30:56.600 --> 00:30:59.060 Do I know what that could look like and sound like, right? 00:30:59.320 --> 00:31:04.435 And so I'd say, learners and teachers using those questions Would be a really 00:31:04.435 --> 00:31:09.245 great start to be able to reflect on, you know, how has your week gone? 00:31:09.245 --> 00:31:10.865 Where are you spending your time? 00:31:10.915 --> 00:31:14.535 Is it a lot of tasking and telling, , and where there might be space to 00:31:14.545 --> 00:31:18.645 be able to infuse some of those elements and values within your week. 00:31:18.900 --> 00:31:23.240 It's not either or, it's both and more, right? 00:31:23.250 --> 00:31:27.880 So we can still work within the system and use those values that 00:31:27.880 --> 00:31:31.780 we see threaded throughout to be able to step towards more of an 00:31:31.780 --> 00:31:33.790 inquiry mindset and inquiry practice. 00:31:34.570 --> 00:31:37.530 Yes, I would agree with everything that you've just said. 00:31:37.600 --> 00:31:42.875 Now, one of the other things is that, of course, As educators who want to 00:31:42.875 --> 00:31:49.605 perhaps step into, and please God, please want to, into an inquiry culture 00:31:49.605 --> 00:31:54.085 and inquiry mindset, one of the things that I've discovered was that kids 00:31:54.085 --> 00:31:55.835 don't know how to ask questions. 00:31:56.595 --> 00:31:59.895 Not open ended questions anyway, not deep questions. 00:32:00.455 --> 00:32:01.745 very shallow questions. 00:32:01.755 --> 00:32:07.735 Yes, those that require one answer that they're very good at, but questions 00:32:07.735 --> 00:32:11.795 that really require some reflection and some thinking and some digging. 00:32:12.425 --> 00:32:14.895 They honestly don't know how to do that. 00:32:15.555 --> 00:32:16.534 And that's a challenge. 00:32:17.145 --> 00:32:22.435 That's our fault, as I think as parents and as teachers, because I 00:32:22.435 --> 00:32:28.055 think if you're starting an inquiry, the best place to start is with 00:32:28.055 --> 00:32:34.755 questions and with learning how to ask good questions and simultaneously, 00:32:35.015 --> 00:32:41.190 I think explicitly, teaching kids what good questions look like. 00:32:41.440 --> 00:32:46.820 So very often we have this argument about, oh what about explicit instruction? 00:32:46.870 --> 00:32:50.450 And people don't understand that the two actually dovetail. 00:32:50.840 --> 00:32:56.495 Because as, Inquiry teachers, we do have to explicitly teach, especially 00:32:56.495 --> 00:33:01.525 because these kids don't have an inquiry mindset, possibly, or those skills. 00:33:01.805 --> 00:33:07.965 We have to explicitly teach them those skills and how to ask good questions. 00:33:08.485 --> 00:33:13.785 So a perfect place to start, as you've just said, ask questions, have it in your 00:33:13.785 --> 00:33:18.305 mind to constantly be asking questions, not just jumping over the answer. 00:33:18.615 --> 00:33:19.815 Take a few seconds. 00:33:20.645 --> 00:33:22.455 Silence is golden, they say. 00:33:22.575 --> 00:33:25.425 Just take a few seconds and let it percolate away. 00:33:26.995 --> 00:33:30.015 Jess, this has been an amazing chat with you. 00:33:30.145 --> 00:33:34.965 Is there anything that you would like to leave listeners with , a little nugget. 00:33:35.500 --> 00:33:38.120 All the other wonderful nuggets you've left us today. 00:33:38.830 --> 00:33:43.520 Are there any other little nuggets you'd like to leave educators and leaders 00:33:44.220 --> 00:33:44.770 Yeah. 00:33:44.770 --> 00:33:48.810 You know, there's one other element and that is having a critical 00:33:48.810 --> 00:33:50.010 friend and thought partner. 00:33:50.080 --> 00:33:54.620 You know, I did say that inquiry is better together and we do it together, but I'd 00:33:54.620 --> 00:34:01.440 say by far and away, my practice has grown Leaps and bounds because I brought in 00:34:01.440 --> 00:34:06.100 critical friends and thought partners and they're not always people who, um, agree 00:34:06.100 --> 00:34:07.830 with what it is that I'm sharing, right? 00:34:07.880 --> 00:34:11.870 Who'll nudge me with a question or give me a little bit of feedback. 00:34:11.900 --> 00:34:15.480 And so there's a handful of critical friends and thought partners who, , I 00:34:15.480 --> 00:34:19.670 seek, you know, for advice to be able to like get their feedback on something that 00:34:19.670 --> 00:34:24.230 I'm kind of putting together or, you know, even, you know, My principal definitely 00:34:24.230 --> 00:34:25.430 is a really great thought partner. 00:34:25.430 --> 00:34:28.890 I'll share some of the things that I've learned on a learning walk and, 00:34:28.910 --> 00:34:32.380 , being able to have that perspective and her experience is really helpful. 00:34:32.700 --> 00:34:35.540 , and so when you pull in that critical friend and thought partner, of course, 00:34:35.540 --> 00:34:38.940 sometimes we just have to vent on our days, but really a critical friend and 00:34:38.940 --> 00:34:42.490 thought partner is there to be able to be that other perspective and mirror 00:34:42.490 --> 00:34:45.790 perhaps to ask you the questions, to help you sort things through. 00:34:46.150 --> 00:34:49.140 And so, I couldn't do what I do alone. 00:34:49.160 --> 00:34:49.670 Um, and. 00:34:49.990 --> 00:34:53.800 You know, even in consultancy world, like I'm always reaching out and 00:34:53.800 --> 00:34:55.200 reconnecting with my learners. 00:34:55.220 --> 00:34:58.240 It's not let me close the door and get on the airplane and leave. 00:34:58.620 --> 00:35:01.050 It's how is the learning impacting you now? 00:35:01.120 --> 00:35:04.760 What are you realizing in your practice and kind of going back and continuing to 00:35:04.760 --> 00:35:09.460 be those thought partners with one another is something that I really really value 00:35:09.460 --> 00:35:11.236 about my consultancy and leadership. 00:35:11.236 --> 00:35:15.143 It's something that I I really think that everyone can learn 00:35:15.143 --> 00:35:16.919 from and continue to you. 00:35:16.919 --> 00:35:21.419 Be able to be and remain curious, just as you've said, is quite critical for us all. 00:35:22.969 --> 00:35:27.109 I think that is a great place for everybody. 00:35:27.109 --> 00:35:30.059 And I think you have to put your ego aside, right? 00:35:30.109 --> 00:35:34.569 Because so many people are so afraid of having someone in their classroom, 00:35:34.569 --> 00:35:39.499 for example, but I think if you want to grow , as an educator, as a 00:35:39.499 --> 00:35:44.539 practitioner, as a leader, You do need that feedback, that constant feedback 00:35:44.539 --> 00:35:47.159 from a critical friend, as you say. 00:35:48.369 --> 00:35:50.709 I think that's important for growth, isn't it? 00:35:52.089 --> 00:35:53.119 Most definitely. 00:35:53.139 --> 00:35:56.089 And you're right, you have to put yourself out there and be vulnerable. 00:35:56.519 --> 00:35:59.759 And again, what happens when we do, right? 00:35:59.759 --> 00:36:03.379 What are our blind spots, our biases that we didn't necessarily know? 00:36:03.689 --> 00:36:05.899 , and every time I've done that, I've taken a risk. 00:36:06.314 --> 00:36:09.664 I've always been surprised and I've always grown and stretched in some new ways. 00:36:09.674 --> 00:36:13.574 So encouraging your listeners to, to do that as well too. 00:36:14.584 --> 00:36:16.034 And that's what it's about, isn't it? 00:36:16.064 --> 00:36:22.324 For people who are into inquiry, it's about growing and stretching and being 00:36:22.324 --> 00:36:25.364 brave and putting your fears aside. 00:36:25.874 --> 00:36:32.724 Because I believe inquiry gives you your mojo back. 00:36:33.164 --> 00:36:41.084 So if, if you are someone who's stuck and you're bored and you perhaps are getting 00:36:41.084 --> 00:36:46.359 quite negative about the profession, which I see a lot on social media. 00:36:46.359 --> 00:36:49.889 I'm actually not even looking at that anymore because I think it's just, it's 00:36:49.909 --> 00:36:54.329 awful how so many people are just so negative about a profession that has 00:36:54.329 --> 00:36:56.439 such a profound impact on the future. 00:36:57.319 --> 00:37:02.499 I think making yourself vulnerable and developing this inquiry 00:37:02.499 --> 00:37:07.459 mindset and just saying, how can I, how can I ask questions? 00:37:07.459 --> 00:37:11.769 How can I get kids excited about coming into my classroom? 00:37:12.239 --> 00:37:16.639 And I think inquiry, because of its nature, because of its 00:37:16.659 --> 00:37:18.669 messiness, it's not clear. 00:37:19.574 --> 00:37:24.504 And it's exciting as an educator to be an inquiry practitioner is 00:37:24.514 --> 00:37:28.854 really exciting because you just never know what you're going to get. 00:37:29.284 --> 00:37:33.344 So for someone who gets bored really easily, which is what I do, 00:37:33.864 --> 00:37:37.874 that's what keeps me going is the inquiry process, because you can 00:37:37.874 --> 00:37:40.904 never get bored because you just never know what you're going to get. 00:37:42.129 --> 00:37:49.099 So I would urge any educators listening, please adopt an inquiry mindset and reach 00:37:49.099 --> 00:37:52.769 out to people to help you to nurture it. 00:37:52.809 --> 00:37:55.229 And because you will, you'll get your mojo back. 00:37:55.239 --> 00:37:56.469 You'll love your job. 00:37:57.129 --> 00:37:58.569 Yeah, most definitely. 00:37:58.589 --> 00:38:03.639 And it's not about perfection, but unfolding towards one another, and 00:38:03.869 --> 00:38:07.609 a community that's really quite something and really quite beautiful. 00:38:07.659 --> 00:38:09.369 So I couldn't agree more. 00:38:10.139 --> 00:38:11.949 I think that's a beautiful note to end. 00:38:11.969 --> 00:38:18.239 That really is a wonderful way to teach and a wonderful way to inspire 00:38:18.569 --> 00:38:22.299 children to be curious, which is exactly what we need in our world 00:38:22.309 --> 00:38:24.889 today is we need curious thinkers. 00:38:25.629 --> 00:38:31.929 So Jess, I'd like to thank you so much for being on Blooming Curious today, and I 00:38:31.939 --> 00:38:34.489 hope you'll come back again another time. 00:38:34.489 --> 00:38:34.859 Anytime. 00:38:35.349 --> 00:38:39.199 And thank you for being such an inspiration to myself and to all 00:38:39.199 --> 00:38:45.169 the other educators and leaders out there who are thinking about changing 00:38:45.169 --> 00:38:46.989 the way we do things for the better. 00:38:47.779 --> 00:38:48.929 Thank you so much for having me. 00:38:48.929 --> 00:38:49.599 It's a pleasure. 00:38:49.639 --> 00:38:50.999 And I'd love to come back soon. 00:38:52.239 --> 00:38:54.999 I'm sure you'll agree that having Jessica on the podcast today 00:38:54.999 --> 00:38:56.649 was just an amazing experience. 00:38:56.649 --> 00:39:00.189 I'm sure you are all inspired to give inquiry a go. 00:39:00.219 --> 00:39:03.639 And if there's anything about this episode that you really appreciated. 00:39:03.999 --> 00:39:06.099 Why not leave us a review. 00:39:06.609 --> 00:39:11.079 Next week, we're going to talk all about questioning, how to ask questions 00:39:11.079 --> 00:39:15.069 and the types of questions that are just great for an inquiry educator to 00:39:15.069 --> 00:39:17.829 ask, to get kids curious and thinking. 00:39:18.189 --> 00:39:21.789 So don't forget to subscribe and follow, and I'll see you all next week. 00:39:21.819 --> 00:39:24.219 And until then stay blooming, curious.