WEBVTT 00:00:00.050 --> 00:00:00.880 Welcome everybody. 00:00:00.980 --> 00:00:05.620 Today I'm welcoming Victoria Hackett, the founder of OutdoorClassrooms. 00:00:05.640 --> 00:00:09.410 com and the Secret Gardens Outdoor Classroom. 00:00:09.869 --> 00:00:14.150 She's also the host of the Outdoor Classrooms podcast, as a parent, 00:00:14.319 --> 00:00:18.469 educational consultant, trainer and coach, Victoria inspires 00:00:18.485 --> 00:00:20.125 playful learning outdoors. 00:00:20.415 --> 00:00:25.685 She offers on site seminars, virtual masterclasses, summits and e courses 00:00:25.695 --> 00:00:29.775 that blend theoretical information with hands on problem solving techniques. 00:00:30.324 --> 00:00:34.754 She has been in the field of education for over 25 years and holds a Master's 00:00:34.754 --> 00:00:36.965 in Education from Cambridge College. 00:00:37.455 --> 00:00:40.645 After years of working with children, Educators and parents. 00:00:40.945 --> 00:00:44.095 Victoria has cultivated a passion for inspiring teachers and 00:00:44.095 --> 00:00:48.425 parents to reconnect children with nature using outdoor classrooms 00:00:48.425 --> 00:00:50.315 and backyard teaching gardens. 00:00:50.765 --> 00:00:55.705 Her vision is for every child to have access to an outdoor classroom and or 00:00:56.014 --> 00:00:59.174 backyard, excuse me, teaching garden. 00:00:59.584 --> 00:01:01.884 Welcome to Blooming Curious, Victoria. 00:01:03.250 --> 00:01:04.209 Thank you for having me. 00:01:04.209 --> 00:01:05.250 I'm thrilled to be here. 00:01:05.689 --> 00:01:09.029 Oh, this is just such a lovely thing to be talking about one of 00:01:09.029 --> 00:01:13.739 my favorite subjects, which is children being outdoors in a garden. 00:01:14.509 --> 00:01:20.179 So, let's kick off by perhaps you sharing with us a pivotal moment 00:01:20.179 --> 00:01:25.219 or an experience that inspired your journey into creating outdoor 00:01:25.259 --> 00:01:27.889 classrooms or, and teaching gardens. 00:01:28.659 --> 00:01:29.859 Ah, what a great question. 00:01:29.879 --> 00:01:30.729 Absolutely. 00:01:31.039 --> 00:01:38.250 I started with, um, outdoor classrooms with, I, yes, so I started with, uh, 00:01:38.270 --> 00:01:40.149 outdoor classrooms actually as a parent. 00:01:40.280 --> 00:01:47.039 I've always been an educator and taught workshops and teaching and teaching 00:01:47.039 --> 00:01:52.869 at our local community college and also Uh, taught young children, but it 00:01:52.869 --> 00:01:54.770 wasn't really until I became a parent. 00:01:55.149 --> 00:01:59.999 And there was this very desolate courtyard at my children's elementary school. 00:02:00.470 --> 00:02:03.699 And I had a first grader and, or a kindergartner and 00:02:03.699 --> 00:02:05.090 a preschooler at the time. 00:02:05.620 --> 00:02:10.349 And they, we would pass this desolate courtyard every morning during drop 00:02:10.349 --> 00:02:12.769 off and every afternoon during pickup. 00:02:13.399 --> 00:02:18.649 And I got this crazy idea of what would happen if we created a children's garden. 00:02:19.160 --> 00:02:24.240 And so it was at that point where I gathered up the leadership in the school 00:02:24.270 --> 00:02:26.359 and other parents and other teachers. 00:02:26.829 --> 00:02:30.380 And we just moved towards this idea of. 00:02:31.265 --> 00:02:36.945 Transforming this sort of courtyard space and I'm telling you, it was incredible 00:02:37.304 --> 00:02:44.404 and I think the most the pivotal moment within that story is when I saw 5th 00:02:44.434 --> 00:02:49.674 graders at the time that had never planted anything in the ground and 5th graders. 00:02:49.685 --> 00:02:53.745 So I had a preschooler and a. Uh, kindergartner and fifth graders at the 00:02:53.755 --> 00:02:55.885 time just seemed like humongous beings. 00:02:56.685 --> 00:02:59.385 And I thought they should be able to, they should have had 00:02:59.385 --> 00:03:01.924 this experience, but they hadn't. 00:03:01.925 --> 00:03:06.794 So that really got me thinking about my own philosophy of education and 00:03:06.795 --> 00:03:10.095 how I was teaching other teachers in child growth and development 00:03:10.095 --> 00:03:11.795 at the local, community college 00:03:11.795 --> 00:03:12.775 and so that. 00:03:13.880 --> 00:03:17.020 Then, prompted me to start outdoor classrooms. 00:03:18.100 --> 00:03:18.800 Amazing. 00:03:18.800 --> 00:03:23.089 So, when you planted this, this space, was your intention just to 00:03:23.090 --> 00:03:27.380 make it sort of pretty with flowers or were you doing vegetables or how 00:03:27.380 --> 00:03:29.479 did, how did this whole thing start? 00:03:29.490 --> 00:03:30.370 What did you decide? 00:03:30.370 --> 00:03:31.400 What was your plan? 00:03:32.445 --> 00:03:33.605 Wow, that's such a good question. 00:03:34.015 --> 00:03:37.355 So the plan was to really create a teaching garden. 00:03:37.355 --> 00:03:43.164 It was a teaching garden and, uh, so what I did at the time was fairly new. 00:03:43.204 --> 00:03:47.104 I, there were other mentors of mine that had done similar things, but 00:03:47.105 --> 00:03:51.635 I pretty much during that whole period threw my kids in the minivan 00:03:52.085 --> 00:03:54.315 and drove around and learned about 00:03:54.825 --> 00:04:00.545 children's gardens and teaching gardens , and I was just in this happy heaven and 00:04:00.545 --> 00:04:02.515 learning as much as I possibly could. 00:04:02.515 --> 00:04:05.965 And I found that they were actually four different types of gardens, and 00:04:05.965 --> 00:04:10.744 this is what we wanted to integrate into the, um, the children's garden 00:04:10.744 --> 00:04:12.005 at my children's elementary school. 00:04:12.005 --> 00:04:15.475 And so what I found with the four different. 00:04:16.015 --> 00:04:21.725 Camps of people and they were, uh, folks that were just focused on food and 00:04:21.725 --> 00:04:27.375 they were so that folks that were just focused on wildlife and focus that, uh, 00:04:27.405 --> 00:04:30.254 then I thought, oh, well, there's these mud kitchens and all these wonderful 00:04:30.264 --> 00:04:34.585 things so we call those the gardens , for outdoor learning stations and then. 00:04:35.210 --> 00:04:38.000 Folks that just wanted to make it beautiful, like you had just said. 00:04:38.010 --> 00:04:42.120 So I call this in my work the four types of gardens. 00:04:42.130 --> 00:04:45.800 So gardens that feed, gardens that attract wildlife, gardens as outdoor learning 00:04:45.800 --> 00:04:47.920 stations, and gardens for art and beauty. 00:04:47.930 --> 00:04:52.850 Because, and I see really creating outdoor classrooms using the elements 00:04:52.860 --> 00:04:56.420 from all those different types of gardens. 00:04:57.340 --> 00:05:01.740 So they can be Creating one of a kind outdoor classrooms wherever you are. 00:05:02.900 --> 00:05:03.380 Right. 00:05:03.800 --> 00:05:09.130 And when you, when you say, , a teaching garden, so somebody's hearing you saying 00:05:09.180 --> 00:05:14.880 a teaching garden, what would come to one's mind when you say teaching garden? 00:05:15.010 --> 00:05:21.819 Would it be a space then where teachers would take children to learn something? 00:05:23.020 --> 00:05:24.280 Yes, it is. 00:05:24.310 --> 00:05:30.810 There's so many different things that can be taught and learned and a playful spaces 00:05:30.810 --> 00:05:32.819 where playful learning can happen as well. 00:05:32.820 --> 00:05:35.270 So, yes, you can be measuring. 00:05:35.890 --> 00:05:40.700 So, for instance, the mud kitchen is a wonderful space because it's so sensorial 00:05:40.740 --> 00:05:45.725 and oftentimes the the space where many, many children learn the most, but there's 00:05:45.725 --> 00:05:50.215 measuring, there's cooking, there's weight, there's all these different things 00:05:50.215 --> 00:05:54.535 that actually happen in a real kitchen, but you're using nature's loose parts. 00:05:54.815 --> 00:06:00.185 So say in a vegetable garden or a kitchen garden, um, planting seeds and what, and 00:06:00.185 --> 00:06:05.505 learning about how seeds are grown and what not and, I'm just thinking about 00:06:05.505 --> 00:06:09.875 the secret gardens here we have a fishing bridge, and so we have letters and numbers 00:06:09.895 --> 00:06:14.145 on the little fish that they can capture, with their magnet fishing poles. 00:06:14.155 --> 00:06:18.445 So there's so many different things we, uh, adding literacy to outdoor 00:06:18.445 --> 00:06:24.195 spaces with , story walks, uh, all sorts of different possibilities within 00:06:24.215 --> 00:06:26.045 each of those four types of gardens. 00:06:26.055 --> 00:06:31.775 So yes, really taking, ideally teachers taking their curriculum, what they're 00:06:31.775 --> 00:06:37.175 doing indoors to, to see if they can take it outdoors and , adapt the space 00:06:37.185 --> 00:06:39.185 and adapt the curriculum as well. 00:06:39.835 --> 00:06:40.795 That's amazing. 00:06:41.125 --> 00:06:45.935 Um, I know that there's, there's a website called Outdoor Classroom. 00:06:46.285 --> 00:06:48.185 No, there's an Outdoor Classroom Day. 00:06:48.195 --> 00:06:49.285 Have you ever heard of that? 00:06:49.725 --> 00:06:50.265 Yes. 00:06:50.660 --> 00:06:50.830 Yeah. 00:06:50.830 --> 00:06:51.960 That's really incredible. 00:06:51.980 --> 00:06:56.390 I've done that a few times where you join up with everybody else in the 00:06:56.390 --> 00:07:00.080 world and have this day of learning outdoors, which is really amazing. 00:07:00.660 --> 00:07:03.710 But sometimes I think it can be very, very difficult for 00:07:03.940 --> 00:07:06.320 educators who never go outside. 00:07:07.050 --> 00:07:14.610 So having a space where they can, I guess, with you learn how to use these outdoor 00:07:14.610 --> 00:07:20.450 spaces and outdoor gardens in their planning and teaching.. We'll talk 00:07:20.460 --> 00:07:24.579 about that as well , in a little while is how people can get involved with you. 00:07:25.149 --> 00:07:28.339 But Victoria, what do you believe are the most significant benefits 00:07:28.340 --> 00:07:33.250 children gain from learning in outdoor environments compared to, let's 00:07:33.250 --> 00:07:35.400 say, a traditional indoor classroom? 00:07:35.740 --> 00:07:35.770 Ah. 00:07:35.770 --> 00:07:42.795 it is the one place that not only us adults, but children, we come 00:07:42.795 --> 00:07:45.005 alive, we come alive outdoors. 00:07:45.005 --> 00:07:49.065 So when you have our, when children are sitting at desks or wherever they 00:07:49.065 --> 00:07:52.465 are indoors, there's a flatness to it. 00:07:52.715 --> 00:07:57.055 But when they can go outdoors their brains come alive, all the research is 00:07:57.055 --> 00:08:04.815 saying all the incredible benefits of spending more time outdoors and that's it. 00:08:04.825 --> 00:08:06.865 You could feel it when you go outside. 00:08:06.865 --> 00:08:09.785 So, I, there's just a very quick story. 00:08:09.815 --> 00:08:13.715 I was talking to another colleague of mine who is actually in Kenya right now. 00:08:14.095 --> 00:08:16.245 And we shared very similar stories. 00:08:16.245 --> 00:08:19.395 And her story, and I'm like, oh, that's the same story that I've, 00:08:19.795 --> 00:08:21.085 same experience that I've had. 00:08:21.144 --> 00:08:26.044 Was when you have a child who does not do very well indoors and 00:08:26.054 --> 00:08:27.794 , they're just not, they're just flat. 00:08:27.804 --> 00:08:30.034 They're just not connecting to the curriculum, 00:08:30.034 --> 00:08:31.514 they're not connecting to themselves. 00:08:31.514 --> 00:08:35.764 They're not connecting to their peer group, and then you take them outside and 00:08:35.764 --> 00:08:41.004 all of a sudden they're engaged, they're working, they're, they've come alive. 00:08:41.024 --> 00:08:46.484 So my, my colleague and I share this story with very different 00:08:46.664 --> 00:08:49.494 children, but , it's an example of 00:08:49.494 --> 00:08:52.784 what happens when we take our children outside, and I know there 00:08:52.784 --> 00:08:56.014 are many teachers out there that are afraid of all the things. 00:08:56.524 --> 00:09:01.264 It, it seems like the indoors is such a controlled environment and that would make 00:09:01.264 --> 00:09:06.844 it easier and let's keep it that way and the being outdoors, uh, there might be 00:09:06.844 --> 00:09:12.499 risk involved and all of that, but there's , all this research around this Topic that 00:09:12.499 --> 00:09:18.009 is showcasing the importance of spending more time outdoors and connecting children 00:09:18.019 --> 00:09:20.929 to the outdoors to bring their mind alive. 00:09:21.869 --> 00:09:24.829 That's so true because I think as teachers, you know, when the bell 00:09:24.829 --> 00:09:30.244 goes for playtime, they can't wait just to get out, get out , onto the 00:09:30.244 --> 00:09:33.014 playground and , into nature and outside. 00:09:33.704 --> 00:09:36.974 Uh, kids do come alive when they're outside. 00:09:37.004 --> 00:09:41.844 And as you said, I think many teachers have a story that they can relate to 00:09:41.844 --> 00:09:47.724 where there's a child that indoors, and I've had those that just, as you 00:09:47.724 --> 00:09:51.824 say, they're flat, but the minute you take them outside, suddenly you see 00:09:51.834 --> 00:09:54.074 leadership skills coming to the fore. 00:09:54.734 --> 00:09:55.534 It's incredible. 00:09:56.504 --> 00:10:01.524 So how have you seen outdoor classrooms impact not only children, 00:10:02.254 --> 00:10:07.744 you mentioned it earlier, but also educators and parents who engage 00:10:07.744 --> 00:10:09.694 with them in that outdoor space? 00:10:10.649 --> 00:10:11.659 It's magic. 00:10:11.709 --> 00:10:14.869 There's there's no other way around describing it. 00:10:14.869 --> 00:10:19.879 It's I again run this Secret Gardens nature classes, and have 00:10:19.909 --> 00:10:21.759 many, many parent child programs, 00:10:21.759 --> 00:10:26.519 and many of the parents said this is amazing because it's a yes environment. 00:10:27.139 --> 00:10:32.419 We're creating these environments that kids can get messy and the messier they 00:10:32.419 --> 00:10:37.784 get, the actual, the healthier they are, the more that they are getting 00:10:37.794 --> 00:10:42.624 messy and mud and the more freedom that they're feeling, um, and for parents, 00:10:42.694 --> 00:10:46.764 it's like, oh, wow, this is something, obviously we wouldn't make this, we 00:10:46.764 --> 00:10:48.334 wouldn't want to make this mess indoors, 00:10:48.344 --> 00:10:54.694 so there's restrictions and there's this constant no and being outdoors enables 00:10:54.694 --> 00:11:00.855 children to have risks, take risks and to allow the parent or teacher to take a 00:11:00.855 --> 00:11:06.265 step back and to watch Children in these environments where they can succeed. 00:11:07.435 --> 00:11:12.845 But ultimately, it's a yes, it's It's a yes environment and allowing, 00:11:13.255 --> 00:11:18.645 educators and or parents just to be able to step back and allow children to 00:11:18.645 --> 00:11:20.425 explore the environment on their own. 00:11:21.295 --> 00:11:23.575 Obviously people come to your space, right? 00:11:23.575 --> 00:11:28.425 They can come to your space to learn, um, the people that come, would they 00:11:28.465 --> 00:11:33.675 all be people of the same, mindset where they want to get kids outside 00:11:34.545 --> 00:11:37.935 because they're already open to it, or do you also find that you're getting 00:11:37.935 --> 00:11:42.105 people who've never done this before and are possibly quite reticent 00:11:42.135 --> 00:11:45.615 'cause you know, they don't like the mud and they don't like the dirt and 00:11:45.615 --> 00:11:47.205 they don't like the sand and the shoes. 00:11:47.280 --> 00:11:47.570 Yeah. 00:11:47.570 --> 00:11:47.690 Yeah. 00:11:47.990 --> 00:11:51.450 And , do you get those parents or teachers as well, that to them, 00:11:51.450 --> 00:11:53.070 this is a whole new experience? 00:11:54.185 --> 00:11:54.835 I do. 00:11:54.855 --> 00:11:55.795 It's funny. 00:11:55.805 --> 00:11:57.905 And it's funny when I, it's like, Oh yes. 00:11:57.945 --> 00:11:58.205 Yep. 00:11:58.255 --> 00:11:59.785 Not everybody thinks the way I think. 00:12:00.685 --> 00:12:00.855 Yeah. 00:12:00.915 --> 00:12:05.055 And when I, it's, it's mind boggling actually. 00:12:05.055 --> 00:12:09.205 And I'm like, and then I've had parents that have said, okay, and we run straight 00:12:09.205 --> 00:12:12.235 through the winter and it's very, gets very cold here in New England. 00:12:12.745 --> 00:12:15.305 And I've had parents said, okay, we'll see you in the spring. 00:12:15.305 --> 00:12:17.845 So they, they won't have anything to do with the colder weather. 00:12:18.335 --> 00:12:22.675 And they, they will be sort of helicopter parenting because they don't want 00:12:22.675 --> 00:12:24.325 their child to get too, too dirty. 00:12:24.815 --> 00:12:28.845 But I've also seen parents and the growth of parents this, 00:12:28.885 --> 00:12:32.945 especially this past year, when kids are wearing the right gear. 00:12:33.475 --> 00:12:36.915 If kids are wearing the right and proper gear, like rain suits and 00:12:36.915 --> 00:12:41.735 the right gloves and the mittens, it enables them the freedom to get 00:12:41.890 --> 00:12:46.800 dirty and messy as much as they want because all the parent has to do is 00:12:46.840 --> 00:12:50.420 unzip them and then all of a sudden they're dry and happy on the inside. 00:12:50.420 --> 00:12:52.440 So it's, it's about. 00:12:52.490 --> 00:12:58.860 , educating parents about the best way to do this so their kids can feel that freedom. 00:12:59.710 --> 00:13:04.260 And for some parents, it's more of a learning curve for others, and, and I see 00:13:04.260 --> 00:13:07.400 kids that come to my program and they're not dressed appropriately, so it's, 00:13:07.450 --> 00:13:10.640 it's just this gentle learning curve, 00:13:10.700 --> 00:13:14.970 and I think when they see other parents and other kids engrossed 00:13:14.970 --> 00:13:18.210 in their play, the light bulb goes off and they're all there. 00:13:18.360 --> 00:13:20.816 We had a class at the beginning of the winter where they're all 00:13:20.826 --> 00:13:22.576 ordering their rain mittens. 00:13:22.816 --> 00:13:27.946 So on Amazon so they're all kind of learning from each other and aren't we 00:13:27.946 --> 00:13:31.966 doing that anyway as as young parents so they're they're learning from each other 00:13:31.966 --> 00:13:37.321 and I think, again, I work with schools as well, and there's lots of resistance 00:13:37.371 --> 00:13:41.701 in terms of, well, I, just all the pressures of what needs to be happening 00:13:41.701 --> 00:13:47.891 in schools, and really changing that mindset around the outdoor classrooms. 00:13:47.891 --> 00:13:50.251 I mean, and it shouldn't be an additional thing. 00:13:50.731 --> 00:13:55.511 It should be something that is, is woven in, so it's, it's a natural, 00:13:56.021 --> 00:14:01.151 uh, the indoor should be as natural as being outdoors and, and whatnot. 00:14:01.511 --> 00:14:02.841 It's so exciting. 00:14:03.811 --> 00:14:08.351 Can you describe, Victoria a particularly memorable transformation 00:14:08.411 --> 00:14:12.531 moment that you've witnessed while you've been implementing these 00:14:12.551 --> 00:14:14.121 outdoor learning experiences? 00:14:14.151 --> 00:14:18.521 Is there, is there someone or a moment that stands out for you that 00:14:18.521 --> 00:14:24.181 really showed you how transformational outdoor learning is for children. 00:14:25.441 --> 00:14:30.451 Oh, there's been so many, there's been so many just here at the secret gardens. 00:14:30.451 --> 00:14:34.481 There's been so many that I see when I'm working with different schools, but for 00:14:34.481 --> 00:14:41.791 myself, when, uh, when I have a mentor, uh, Phil Solomon, many, many years ago, 00:14:41.861 --> 00:14:46.856 she started a. classroom at the Chenery Middle School and I'll never forget it. 00:14:46.876 --> 00:14:51.896 I saw what she had done and thought, holy cannoli, I think 00:14:51.896 --> 00:14:53.896 this is really what we could do. 00:14:54.501 --> 00:14:58.491 And that was the inspiration of that my children's elementary school, when 00:14:58.491 --> 00:15:02.701 I saw that, because a lot of what was happening again, this is 20 years 00:15:02.701 --> 00:15:07.341 ago, so a lot of what was happening was happening on the West Coast. 00:15:08.171 --> 00:15:12.191 So there wasn't a lot of outdoor classrooms, and people thought 00:15:12.201 --> 00:15:14.981 like, if I talk about it, they thought I was this cuckoo brain. 00:15:15.621 --> 00:15:20.741 But just now, I mean, I think COVID has been.. The silver lining because it 00:15:20.741 --> 00:15:25.561 forced all of us to go outside and to see what our campuses and our landscapes 00:15:26.176 --> 00:15:29.006 are that we can use for children. 00:15:29.006 --> 00:15:34.856 So, , I would say that that one initial mentor of mine and just 00:15:34.896 --> 00:15:41.646 this, these slow progressions of witnessing, what educators are doing 00:15:41.806 --> 00:15:43.636 around the country, it's exciting 00:15:44.076 --> 00:15:46.386 I don't know what it's like for you there. 00:15:46.596 --> 00:15:50.096 But I've noticed where I live in Perth,, we're actually very fortunate. 00:15:50.146 --> 00:15:54.236 There are a lot of playgrounds around for families and children. 00:15:54.776 --> 00:15:59.606 Um, a lot of them are really getting into this whole nature playground. 00:15:59.606 --> 00:16:03.996 So there's a lot of natural elements in the playground, moving 00:16:03.996 --> 00:16:06.466 away from the plastic fantastic. 00:16:07.326 --> 00:16:10.956 But I have a question , in that I also notice, and I think there's 00:16:10.956 --> 00:16:12.876 a, there's a slow progression. 00:16:12.876 --> 00:16:17.446 It's a slow change coming that some schools are now, and I can see it 00:16:17.446 --> 00:16:22.596 when I'm driving around, changing their own outdoor spaces or their 00:16:22.646 --> 00:16:25.946 own playgrounds to be more natural. 00:16:26.666 --> 00:16:30.506 I'm seeing this movement towards a more natural playground for children. 00:16:31.396 --> 00:16:32.726 Simultaneously. 00:16:33.116 --> 00:16:36.296 We're seeing schools change their playgrounds, you know, putting 00:16:36.296 --> 00:16:40.076 softer surfaces, making it more natural, but they're still 00:16:40.126 --> 00:16:44.276 pretty structured and manicured. 00:16:45.286 --> 00:16:47.186 What are your thoughts around that? 00:16:47.226 --> 00:16:56.276 Because Isn't it the wildness and the freedom of nature that really attract 00:16:56.316 --> 00:17:01.696 children, where they can really learn, as opposed to the sort of 00:17:01.706 --> 00:17:06.696 manicured, perfect nature playground where everything has a place. 00:17:07.396 --> 00:17:12.516 So I think we're moving in the right direction, but perhaps not enough. 00:17:13.106 --> 00:17:19.706 So what are your thoughts around that, about these beautifully manicured Spaces, 00:17:20.436 --> 00:17:26.886 when you're thinking about more of a wild, natural space, what are your thoughts 00:17:26.886 --> 00:17:34.066 around that, perhaps for schools or municipalities or people thinking about 00:17:34.066 --> 00:17:39.376 changing their outdoor spaces to make them not only more child friendly, but 00:17:39.796 --> 00:17:43.396 more learning friendly for children? 00:17:44.296 --> 00:17:45.746 Oh, such a good question. 00:17:45.746 --> 00:17:51.696 I I And I get very sad when I see what you're describing. 00:17:51.976 --> 00:17:58.836 It's sort of this, oh, we have to go purchase these outdoor classrooms and 00:17:58.856 --> 00:18:00.676 we have to, and look, we're doing it. 00:18:00.836 --> 00:18:03.576 And it's oftentimes there's a disconnect. 00:18:04.386 --> 00:18:11.296 And I think that what children really need it's, they love, um, nature's loose parts. 00:18:12.166 --> 00:18:17.706 And so being able to play with sticks in, different capacities, being 00:18:17.706 --> 00:18:24.026 able to with stones and feathers and all of nature's loose parts and 00:18:24.026 --> 00:18:25.996 creating these outdoor classrooms. 00:18:26.356 --> 00:18:30.016 And again, I like to create outdoor classrooms on a shoestring budget. 00:18:30.606 --> 00:18:34.496 . And it just goes back to children would much rather play with an empty 00:18:34.496 --> 00:18:36.756 box than what's actually in the box. 00:18:37.316 --> 00:18:42.256 So it's that same mindset in terms of these, these folks spending thousands 00:18:42.256 --> 00:18:47.086 and thousands of dollars on these very manicured, playgrounds or playscapes 00:18:47.086 --> 00:18:51.956 and whatnot, when actually the children are going to be much happier in a 00:18:52.416 --> 00:18:58.346 homegrown, do it yourself, outdoor space that has different elements, like those 00:18:58.346 --> 00:19:00.596 four types of garden pieces, elements. 00:19:01.176 --> 00:19:05.486 Uh, it might have a garden that grows food, so there's that whole learning 00:19:05.486 --> 00:19:10.016 that can go on there and a garden that has mud kitchens and water walls and 00:19:10.436 --> 00:19:15.846 music walls and, but those elements that go into that can all be homegrown. 00:19:16.396 --> 00:19:20.066 Parents and families can pull those items from recycled materials. 00:19:20.316 --> 00:19:21.506 The kids don't care. 00:19:22.036 --> 00:19:26.796 I've seen adventure playgrounds popping up and where they have 00:19:26.846 --> 00:19:30.046 all sorts of different loose parts that kids can play with. 00:19:30.466 --> 00:19:32.916 Kids want their own environment. 00:19:32.956 --> 00:19:39.356 When they're so manicured, I feel like it's too structured, it's, then we're, 00:19:39.396 --> 00:19:45.796 we're expecting a certain type of play to come out of these manicured play spaces. 00:19:46.056 --> 00:19:50.896 But when they have loose parts, and these different elements from these four 00:19:50.896 --> 00:19:55.186 different types of gardens, the play changes, it, it becomes organic, it's 00:19:55.406 --> 00:19:58.616 authentic, it's, kids can feel freedom. 00:19:59.186 --> 00:20:02.646 So yeah, I, I get really sad, I feel like, oh. 00:20:02.921 --> 00:20:06.791 You know, let's just not, let's go this direction, but let's not miss the mark. 00:20:07.871 --> 00:20:13.141 And again, if, and obviously if these schools are getting funding to, 00:20:13.751 --> 00:20:18.641 , purchase , these new school grounds, uh, that makes me sad too, because I 00:20:18.671 --> 00:20:21.181 feel like that they've been misdirected. 00:20:21.866 --> 00:20:27.416 And, and again, it goes back to educating and having these conversations and 00:20:27.426 --> 00:20:34.286 talking more about the essence of child development and what they need and how 00:20:34.286 --> 00:20:39.196 we can incorporate our outdoor spaces to be not just spaces where they go 00:20:39.196 --> 00:20:43.506 out and have recess, but spaces where they can actually take extra time. 00:20:43.991 --> 00:20:46.621 That they would normally have indoors they can have it outdoors 00:20:46.931 --> 00:20:52.291 and still fulfill all the academia that learning that is required. 00:20:53.161 --> 00:20:53.741 Yes. 00:20:53.791 --> 00:21:00.022 That is also, a massive bone of contention and something that I really struggle with. 00:21:00.592 --> 00:21:01.222 Because. 00:21:01.477 --> 00:21:04.727 I think people think, you have to be this hippie type , to have this. 00:21:04.757 --> 00:21:08.757 It's just for like people that are hippies well, no, because in 00:21:08.757 --> 00:21:10.977 essence, all children are the same. 00:21:11.837 --> 00:21:13.797 They all want the same thing. 00:21:13.797 --> 00:21:18.967 I think all of us humans want that freedom to explore, but if 00:21:18.977 --> 00:21:24.047 everything's so beautifully laid out and manicured, there's nothing to explore. 00:21:24.297 --> 00:21:27.917 There's nothing that they can create for themselves. 00:21:28.517 --> 00:21:33.137 And so then, do you want a space where children, where they can grow their 00:21:33.197 --> 00:21:38.937 own creativity, where they can have agency, but when we put everything 00:21:38.977 --> 00:21:43.517 out for them and everything's all perfectly manicured, it's boring. 00:21:43.577 --> 00:21:47.177 It might look very pretty, but it's completely boring. 00:21:47.807 --> 00:21:48.167 Yeah. 00:21:49.047 --> 00:21:50.647 I couldn't agree with you more. 00:21:50.767 --> 00:21:52.347 I could not agree with you more. 00:21:52.677 --> 00:21:56.077 And again, it goes back to it's clean. 00:21:56.837 --> 00:22:02.917 And kids need to be messy and muddy and dirty and, I mean, there's nothing 00:22:02.917 --> 00:22:06.697 that makes me happier when I see kids leave my program and they're, they've 00:22:06.697 --> 00:22:10.727 got mud on their face and their clothes and, and whatnot, but, and 00:22:10.727 --> 00:22:17.287 they have a smile because they created something that they couldn't necessarily 00:22:17.287 --> 00:22:21.217 create in doors, but they were given the permission and the word yes. 00:22:21.602 --> 00:22:22.442 Like, go for it. 00:22:23.352 --> 00:22:27.102 So I think it's, it's just this conversation that we need to have. 00:22:27.102 --> 00:22:29.632 We need to really understand child development. 00:22:30.052 --> 00:22:34.592 We need to really understand the essence of loose parts and where that 00:22:34.592 --> 00:22:37.182 creativity and imagination and nurturing. 00:22:37.727 --> 00:22:43.637 All of that and how that comes into our outdoor classrooms and the development 00:22:43.667 --> 00:22:49.017 of our children, but because so many children and parents and families are 00:22:49.017 --> 00:22:54.937 spending too much time in front of a screen, and that's, we need to sort of 00:22:54.937 --> 00:23:02.167 shift that, take them outdoors and get them into this creative zone again. 00:23:02.697 --> 00:23:03.747 Funny you say that. 00:23:03.817 --> 00:23:11.077 I just, Yesterday, I recorded an episode where I'm talking about play 00:23:12.447 --> 00:23:14.987 and looked at some research around play. 00:23:15.747 --> 00:23:22.817 And here in Australia, a poll was done to parents and discovered 00:23:23.957 --> 00:23:27.277 the most prevalent form of play. 00:23:28.337 --> 00:23:29.377 Was digital. 00:23:30.197 --> 00:23:30.587 Yeah. 00:23:30.727 --> 00:23:33.477 You know, my brain just about exploded. 00:23:33.477 --> 00:23:43.467 54 percent of families were in front of screens on digital devices. 00:23:44.267 --> 00:23:48.347 And it was something like 27 percent or something, which I think, and 27 00:23:48.347 --> 00:23:52.127 percent sounds like nothing, but I think that's really, really high of 00:23:52.137 --> 00:23:55.847 young children and even toddlers. 00:23:56.407 --> 00:24:00.502 These are the things where you're giving kids It's not just television, it's 00:24:00.622 --> 00:24:03.262 phones, it's screens, it's an iPad. 00:24:03.262 --> 00:24:07.872 Anyway, don't even get me started because then I start thinking about, you know, 00:24:07.902 --> 00:24:13.192 we've got all these issues in society, but if you just take away the screens and put 00:24:13.192 --> 00:24:20.012 them in nature, I really feel that so many of those problems would just evaporate. 00:24:20.707 --> 00:24:21.977 Yeah, I do too. 00:24:22.047 --> 00:24:23.287 And that's why I do what I do. 00:24:23.517 --> 00:24:24.967 And I think that's why you do what you do. 00:24:25.467 --> 00:24:27.977 And I think that's, that's why our paths have crossed. 00:24:27.977 --> 00:24:37.487 But I do so, so wholeheartedly believe that the essence of changing the 00:24:37.497 --> 00:24:43.707 trajectory of where our mental health is going is to actually very simply open up 00:24:43.737 --> 00:24:47.037 the door and spend more time outdoors. 00:24:47.067 --> 00:24:52.977 And if we are, if we can get schools to think about and educators to 00:24:52.987 --> 00:24:58.117 think about, hmm, how can I take what I'm already doing and actually 00:24:58.117 --> 00:25:00.867 enhance it by taking it outdoors? 00:25:01.322 --> 00:25:07.122 And how can I create a space at my school to even make it greater? 00:25:07.882 --> 00:25:13.582 Or how can I even explore my campus at school to, to use it more? 00:25:14.792 --> 00:25:20.162 And there are teachers that there's such a huge fear factor and a lack of 00:25:20.162 --> 00:25:24.082 time factor and all of these things. 00:25:24.462 --> 00:25:29.622 I work with so many educators to really try to flip that into an opportunity. 00:25:30.172 --> 00:25:33.232 All these challenges that they have, how can we flip it to an 00:25:33.232 --> 00:25:36.792 opportunity where we are actually going outside because the benefits 00:25:36.842 --> 00:25:40.552 are huge and the research is huge. 00:25:40.552 --> 00:25:41.442 It's all there. 00:25:42.072 --> 00:25:45.682 But I, someone had just told me that there's research about, uh, 00:25:46.452 --> 00:25:51.022 inmates at jails are spending more time outside than our children. 00:25:51.597 --> 00:25:52.027 Today. 00:25:52.267 --> 00:25:56.617 Yes, I've read that research that inmates actually have more 00:25:56.617 --> 00:25:59.147 time outdoors than children do. 00:25:59.737 --> 00:26:01.547 It's quite frightening, really. 00:26:02.027 --> 00:26:07.897 And I'll just say that in the podcast that I was talking about play, I also 00:26:07.897 --> 00:26:13.697 found some other research done way back in the sixties, where the psychiatrist 00:26:13.757 --> 00:26:18.457 discovered that amongst inmates that had committed really violent crimes, 00:26:19.257 --> 00:26:25.157 one of the threads was that they were all deprived of play in their childhood. 00:26:25.787 --> 00:26:29.907 So they're not saying that a lack of play caused them to be violent 00:26:29.907 --> 00:26:35.537 criminals, but certainly the lack of play shaped their development. 00:26:36.442 --> 00:26:36.942 Oh, wow. 00:26:36.942 --> 00:26:40.702 Just really, really fascinating and I think it's time. 00:26:40.992 --> 00:26:41.862 The time has come. 00:26:41.862 --> 00:26:46.602 We're going full circle for us to perhaps be thinking about going back 00:26:46.602 --> 00:26:52.952 again to the way we were supposed to be, and that is naturally to be outside, 00:26:52.952 --> 00:26:58.212 but as you've said, it is a very difficult switch to flip for educators 00:26:58.212 --> 00:26:59.812 when they have so much pressure. 00:27:00.682 --> 00:27:05.272 You know, they've got all these time constraints, budget constraints, for 00:27:05.272 --> 00:27:10.952 them to flip that switch and think, well, how, as you've said, how can I do what 00:27:10.952 --> 00:27:16.402 I'm doing indoors, but just outdoors where children will perhaps be able to 00:27:16.402 --> 00:27:22.332 focus better, concentrate better and learn better and really be happier. 00:27:23.222 --> 00:27:23.642 Yes. 00:27:24.812 --> 00:27:25.142 Yes. 00:27:25.572 --> 00:27:28.302 And I think it's, it's something that happened during COVID 00:27:28.342 --> 00:27:30.222 because it, we had to do it. 00:27:31.002 --> 00:27:34.422 So in my eyes, I'm like, why, we know we can do it. 00:27:35.232 --> 00:27:38.582 So, so I think that, , we just keep plugging forward. 00:27:39.542 --> 00:27:44.762 So you've probably touched on it already, but in your view, what are 00:27:44.762 --> 00:27:50.152 those key elements or principles , that make outdoor classrooms successful? 00:27:50.212 --> 00:27:53.882 Is it just that we're seeing children are happier and they're learning better? 00:27:54.312 --> 00:27:59.272 Or are there other things that you have noticed for yourself that you think 00:28:00.102 --> 00:28:03.342 just make outdoor learning a success? 00:28:04.072 --> 00:28:04.782 It's twofold. 00:28:04.832 --> 00:28:09.972 I think that part of the design of an outdoor classroom is critical. 00:28:10.032 --> 00:28:13.222 I think it's critical , I talk to a lot of, educators and the 00:28:13.222 --> 00:28:15.222 design of the outdoor space. 00:28:15.242 --> 00:28:20.232 Again, not that it's going to be a fancy space, but it, I think you'd need to 00:28:20.232 --> 00:28:24.042 have a space where, um, children gather. 00:28:25.127 --> 00:28:28.617 So just like you do in an indoor classroom, you need a, you need a 00:28:28.617 --> 00:28:30.677 designated area where children gather. 00:28:31.527 --> 00:28:37.657 So, and again, I like to design my outdoor classroom with using the four 00:28:37.717 --> 00:28:39.897 elements from the four types of gardens. 00:28:40.287 --> 00:28:42.527 And I think using that. 00:28:43.772 --> 00:28:46.172 benefits children because there's something that's 00:28:46.172 --> 00:28:48.262 happening around every corner. 00:28:48.712 --> 00:28:55.082 So that element of wonder and curiosity and I think if the space is connecting, 00:28:55.942 --> 00:28:59.722 age appropriately to whatever the children are playfully learning. 00:28:59.722 --> 00:29:04.142 So it might be just that they are, but if they're learning about colors or 00:29:04.192 --> 00:29:09.362 alphabets or measuring or learning about planting seeds and, or whatever it is, 00:29:09.812 --> 00:29:15.882 that the outdoor classroom provides a space where it can extend that learning. 00:29:16.672 --> 00:29:20.182 And, I guess the best way to describe it is that it's a space that you 00:29:20.242 --> 00:29:24.712 can do, you can learn something that you can't learn indoors. 00:29:25.617 --> 00:29:31.087 So if you were going to learn about trees or the width of trees and whatnot, 00:29:31.097 --> 00:29:34.927 you can only, I mean, you can do that by looking at pictures indoors, right? 00:29:35.687 --> 00:29:39.447 But if you go outdoors and you go for a walk, you get the 00:29:39.447 --> 00:29:40.757 wind blowing through the trees. 00:29:40.757 --> 00:29:43.827 You get, you're talking about all the different types of trees. 00:29:44.257 --> 00:29:47.667 So that's an experience that you have outdoors that you can't 00:29:47.687 --> 00:29:51.307 necessarily have that same wow factor. 00:29:51.707 --> 00:29:52.367 Indoors. 00:29:53.137 --> 00:29:58.767 So that's where the outdoor classroom really becomes an extension of the indoor, 00:29:59.457 --> 00:30:03.567 and it shouldn't be either or, it should just be the extensions of each other. 00:30:04.257 --> 00:30:10.222 But I wholeheartedly believe that the design of the space, if you're so lucky 00:30:10.222 --> 00:30:16.222 to have a space to design , having that gathering space, I, I do like a check-in 00:30:16.222 --> 00:30:18.202 with rocks, with kids' names on them. 00:30:18.682 --> 00:30:23.512 I'm here , and , then having routines and systems in place, which will 00:30:23.752 --> 00:30:27.842 enable children to understand, okay, what are the boundaries of this space? 00:30:27.862 --> 00:30:28.762 Where can I go? 00:30:28.992 --> 00:30:33.392 So they can have that freedom to be themselves in that space. 00:30:33.722 --> 00:30:38.122 But there's some structure and routine, as there are in an indoor classroom. 00:30:39.102 --> 00:30:40.802 So it's, I think it's twofold. 00:30:40.802 --> 00:30:43.662 I think it's There's a design element and I think it's also 00:30:43.662 --> 00:30:45.352 a curriculum element as well. 00:30:46.272 --> 00:30:47.062 Incredible. 00:30:47.582 --> 00:30:54.972 That's really, really good advice for anybody or any institution or 00:30:55.072 --> 00:31:00.542 municipality thinking about creating or designing an outdoor space for 00:31:00.542 --> 00:31:02.952 children is to really keep that in mind. 00:31:03.552 --> 00:31:07.862 Let's talk for a moment about risk, Victoria, because we're so worried 00:31:07.862 --> 00:31:09.712 about kids getting hurt, aren't we? 00:31:10.177 --> 00:31:10.537 Yes. 00:31:10.587 --> 00:31:12.077 So worried about that. 00:31:12.757 --> 00:31:16.627 And a lot of parents are very risk averse. 00:31:17.627 --> 00:31:21.137 So if their children get hurt, I think this might be one of the reasons 00:31:21.137 --> 00:31:26.607 that schools are afraid of the backlash that we may get from parents 00:31:26.607 --> 00:31:34.077 because their child has been hurt somehow on an outdoor playground. 00:31:34.737 --> 00:31:36.547 What are your feelings around that? 00:31:37.467 --> 00:31:39.497 Every child needs to take risks. 00:31:40.017 --> 00:31:44.837 And we need to create environments and a mindset to give them 00:31:44.837 --> 00:31:46.787 the freedom to take risks. 00:31:47.537 --> 00:31:51.197 So there's healthy risks and there's dangerous risks. 00:31:51.257 --> 00:31:54.532 So we need to distinguish what that is. 00:31:55.162 --> 00:31:59.752 We need to sort of set ground rules and we need to have a risk, our own risk 00:31:59.752 --> 00:32:04.462 assessment in terms of, the age and stage of the children that we are working 00:32:04.462 --> 00:32:09.012 with, that we are with, and we need to make sure that our outdoor spaces are 00:32:09.012 --> 00:32:17.292 safe, but we also need to include things in the outdoor space where children can 00:32:17.852 --> 00:32:25.022 try a balance beam or walk on a log or all of these different things that Oh, 00:32:25.072 --> 00:32:30.582 well, they might fall off, but we, but falling off isn't necessarily a bad thing. 00:32:30.652 --> 00:32:34.212 It's, part of taking risks, healthy risks. 00:32:35.012 --> 00:32:40.282 So , I think risk is a huge topic and I think it's, it's been, uh, discussed. 00:32:40.282 --> 00:32:43.412 I think that there are schools that are so nervous about being 00:32:43.412 --> 00:32:47.392 sued and this and that, and it's safer to keep the kids indoors. 00:32:47.402 --> 00:32:49.862 So we're just going to keep it that and not. 00:32:49.977 --> 00:32:55.687 let them run because they might fall and all of the become these either helicopter 00:32:55.687 --> 00:32:57.597 parents or helicopter educators, 00:32:58.067 --> 00:33:00.667 , but it's so important for Children's. 00:33:01.517 --> 00:33:09.337 innate growth, and confidence to be able to try different things and for educators 00:33:09.387 --> 00:33:15.747 and parents to take a step back and really figure out what their relationship is 00:33:15.787 --> 00:33:22.107 with, with risk and what, and not be so, I mean, be close, but depending on what 00:33:22.107 --> 00:33:28.617 it is, , and what the child is doing to give them some space to actually explore. 00:33:28.617 --> 00:33:31.572 Because I think children are Smart. 00:33:32.482 --> 00:33:34.792 And I think they know what they're capable of. 00:33:35.162 --> 00:33:40.152 And I think if they fall off something, it's, important for us as educators 00:33:40.152 --> 00:33:43.942 and parents to get them back on the horse and say, let's try that again. 00:33:44.772 --> 00:33:48.232 And that develops their competence. 00:33:48.992 --> 00:33:53.272 But yes, there are many schools and teachers and educators 00:33:53.272 --> 00:33:54.662 and parents out there that 00:33:54.867 --> 00:33:57.037 feel like let's just keep them safe. 00:33:57.037 --> 00:34:01.857 And so what we're doing is we're raising children in the bubble wrap, and we're 00:34:01.857 --> 00:34:08.267 not allowing them to run free or do what their bodies are telling them to do. 00:34:08.717 --> 00:34:12.767 Uh, because we're, we're lining them up and we're moving them from one place 00:34:12.767 --> 00:34:15.357 to the second place and all in order. 00:34:15.357 --> 00:34:21.917 And so we can't that again, like you said earlier, it's just ends up being boring, 00:34:22.777 --> 00:34:25.587 you know, so we Need a little more risk. 00:34:26.827 --> 00:34:27.753 That's going to 00:34:27.753 --> 00:34:29.367 look different for everybody. 00:34:29.367 --> 00:34:30.173 Yes, exactly. 00:34:30.173 --> 00:34:35.417 And I also wonder whether a lack of risk is perhaps also contributing 00:34:35.417 --> 00:34:40.257 to the fact that we're seeing less grit, less resilience in children. 00:34:41.957 --> 00:34:45.737 you know, they fall and it's the end of the world. 00:34:46.517 --> 00:34:50.537 So I think that risky play, a little bit of risk, I think it should be 00:34:50.537 --> 00:34:55.597 managed risks, as you said, educators, parents, you need to do that risk 00:34:55.597 --> 00:34:59.227 assessment beforehand, go and make sure that there's no, you know, shards of 00:34:59.227 --> 00:35:01.897 glass or sharp things sticking out. 00:35:02.307 --> 00:35:06.047 But for a child to go and experience, , balancing on stepping stones, 00:35:06.057 --> 00:35:08.677 walking on a log, climbing a rope. 00:35:09.457 --> 00:35:13.427 These are healthy risks to take, and even if they do fall 00:35:13.427 --> 00:35:15.257 and break an arm, that's okay. 00:35:15.387 --> 00:35:17.417 It'll heal, you know, a broken arm. 00:35:18.067 --> 00:35:18.717 It's okay. 00:35:18.877 --> 00:35:19.647 It's a story. 00:35:19.667 --> 00:35:20.277 It's a story. 00:35:20.277 --> 00:35:21.167 It's a story. 00:35:21.607 --> 00:35:23.567 And there is also a lot of research. 00:35:24.117 --> 00:35:27.437 That kids who don't have these little risks as they're growing 00:35:27.437 --> 00:35:34.097 up, these are these kids that when they're 18, 19, 20, take risks that 00:35:34.097 --> 00:35:36.827 are way beyond their capability. 00:35:36.937 --> 00:35:39.297 You know, things like just think about them getting a driver's 00:35:39.297 --> 00:35:44.142 license, for example, and speed because they haven't experience those 00:35:44.152 --> 00:35:47.332 little baby risks as they've been children and as they've grown up. 00:35:47.752 --> 00:35:50.752 And so they don't really know how to handle the big risks. 00:35:51.342 --> 00:35:52.612 So risk is important. 00:35:52.612 --> 00:35:57.612 And I think for anybody listening, parents, especially, and teachers, we 00:35:57.612 --> 00:36:02.912 need to allow children that element of risky play and see where it goes. 00:36:03.192 --> 00:36:07.372 And if they do fall, Obviously, you've got to stand back and just watch a 00:36:07.372 --> 00:36:11.102 little bit because , more than likely they just get up, dust themselves 00:36:11.102 --> 00:36:12.892 off and get back on the horse. 00:36:13.542 --> 00:36:13.832 Yeah. 00:36:14.002 --> 00:36:18.842 So we've got to also control ourselves a little bit and just stand back 00:36:18.872 --> 00:36:24.952 and observe and watch and allow children that freedom to take risks 00:36:24.982 --> 00:36:27.422 and, and push their own boundaries. 00:36:28.702 --> 00:36:29.112 Yes. 00:36:30.047 --> 00:36:30.667 I think, 00:36:31.127 --> 00:36:33.197 It's critical, it's critical. 00:36:33.477 --> 00:36:36.717 And you can tell children that have spent more time in outdoor 00:36:36.717 --> 00:36:41.797 classrooms, when they do fall, they, they pop right back up again. 00:36:42.097 --> 00:36:46.947 And you can tell children that have not spent time in outdoor classrooms because 00:36:46.957 --> 00:36:49.767 they, uh, they fall and they fall apart. 00:36:50.282 --> 00:36:52.042 Emotionally, physically. 00:36:52.702 --> 00:36:59.342 So it shows that the outdoor classrooms are really enabling children that 00:36:59.372 --> 00:37:05.492 opportunity to explore, to go beyond the limits and to make themselves stronger. 00:37:06.672 --> 00:37:10.692 Victoria, you've worked with a lot of schools and teachers and educators. 00:37:11.577 --> 00:37:15.157 You know, when they come up with all the barriers, like you've said, you work with 00:37:15.157 --> 00:37:21.257 a lot of them that are trying to figure out how they can get kids outdoors more. 00:37:21.507 --> 00:37:26.387 What were some of your tips or some of your advice that you give 00:37:26.417 --> 00:37:32.657 educators when it comes to getting kids outside and still meeting those 00:37:32.687 --> 00:37:36.762 curriculum outcomes, because I think as teachers, they're always worried. 00:37:36.782 --> 00:37:40.892 We're always worried because we're under pressure to cover curriculum, right? 00:37:41.362 --> 00:37:43.292 We need to meet these outcomes. 00:37:44.002 --> 00:37:49.092 And so it becomes a really stressful situation because we're thinking, well, 00:37:49.092 --> 00:37:52.822 if they take the kids out, then they're not going to be able to cover this and 00:37:52.822 --> 00:37:59.632 that and the next thing to meet those outcomes for assessment very often. 00:37:59.972 --> 00:38:00.872 So what? 00:38:01.287 --> 00:38:04.957 What are some of your tips that you've given to educators that you've worked 00:38:04.957 --> 00:38:08.297 with then to be able to meet curriculum 00:38:09.127 --> 00:38:15.157 . And at the same time, get kids outside doing things that will 00:38:15.157 --> 00:38:18.037 actually benefit their learning. 00:38:18.907 --> 00:38:19.927 That's such a good question. 00:38:19.937 --> 00:38:20.977 I work. 00:38:20.997 --> 00:38:23.707 Yes, I work with many, many, many different schools and many 00:38:23.707 --> 00:38:27.567 different capacities and many, uh, grade levels and whatnot. 00:38:27.597 --> 00:38:33.147 And my biggest recommendation , to all is to take baby steps. 00:38:33.447 --> 00:38:38.457 And that Rome was not built in a day and to take up something very, very 00:38:38.457 --> 00:38:46.797 small, whether you just go out and read a story and, or you go just create a 00:38:46.797 --> 00:38:49.277 gathering space so you have a place to go. 00:38:50.017 --> 00:38:54.257 So in my work, I, during COVID came up with the five phases of teaching 00:38:54.257 --> 00:38:57.667 outdoors and the phase one being. 00:38:58.282 --> 00:38:59.102 Infrastructure. 00:38:59.102 --> 00:39:01.602 So making sure that you have an infrastructure in 00:39:01.602 --> 00:39:03.352 your, , outdoor classroom. 00:39:03.352 --> 00:39:05.502 So you again that gathering space. 00:39:05.942 --> 00:39:08.112 Uh, what are you going to do when you get out there? 00:39:08.142 --> 00:39:13.152 What are the routines, the physical space and the phase two 00:39:13.152 --> 00:39:14.702 is actually getting outdoors. 00:39:15.052 --> 00:39:19.392 Moving kids outdoors and phase three is teaching and learning. 00:39:19.412 --> 00:39:22.752 Phase four is weather and phase five is, sustainability. 00:39:23.412 --> 00:39:27.492 So what finding that teachers are in all different phases of teaching 00:39:27.492 --> 00:39:31.162 outdoors, not one teacher is going to be in the exact same phase. 00:39:31.622 --> 00:39:36.782 And I tell educators that it's so important to identify where they are at. 00:39:37.402 --> 00:39:39.782 So you're going to get educators that may 00:39:40.052 --> 00:39:43.722 love going outside and they're just like, yeah, this is awesome. 00:39:44.012 --> 00:39:47.992 And they will just have ideas spinning through their mind and they'll just, 00:39:48.242 --> 00:39:50.532 they'll take, take it like water. 00:39:50.532 --> 00:39:53.012 You know, they'll, they'll just swim, swim right out. 00:39:53.592 --> 00:39:57.162 Other teachers will be petrified and so they're really not. 00:39:58.002 --> 00:40:00.592 Sure, what, what that experience will be like. 00:40:00.842 --> 00:40:04.492 So what I like to tell educators is like to, to acknowledge that in 00:40:04.492 --> 00:40:08.752 yourself and your, and where you are at in your teaching practice 00:40:08.792 --> 00:40:14.352 and your outdoor teaching practice, and then to start taking baby steps. 00:40:14.912 --> 00:40:18.192 So whether you're in the infrastructure stage, maybe you need to just set up a 00:40:18.192 --> 00:40:23.532 gathering space, take your kids outdoors, read a story, and go back indoors. 00:40:24.262 --> 00:40:25.762 So it could be as simple as that. 00:40:26.102 --> 00:40:28.742 That experience is huge. 00:40:29.462 --> 00:40:34.262 So to not negate the fact that Rome, it's all going to happen all at once. 00:40:34.722 --> 00:40:38.282 But then once you get kids used to going indoor and outdoor. 00:40:38.587 --> 00:40:42.607 Then you can move on to, um, maybe we'll do a little lesson 00:40:42.607 --> 00:40:44.087 outside while we're out here. 00:40:44.707 --> 00:40:46.397 Maybe we'll tag on a lesson. 00:40:46.407 --> 00:40:51.677 So it's just like creating a habit and figuring out what's that first domino. 00:40:51.677 --> 00:40:57.057 And it's just, okay, acknowledging where I'm at and then getting those kids 00:40:57.057 --> 00:40:59.187 outdoors for very something very simple. 00:40:59.657 --> 00:41:01.467 And then adding on to. 00:41:02.572 --> 00:41:06.182 So you get in the habit of doing it and then adding on to that. 00:41:06.552 --> 00:41:12.052 And with that, then you start really learning to, okay, wow, we're actually 00:41:12.542 --> 00:41:15.172 probably covering more ground outdoors. 00:41:15.542 --> 00:41:16.592 Kids are happier. 00:41:17.142 --> 00:41:18.592 They're making more connections. 00:41:18.602 --> 00:41:22.842 So all of these ahas that I wish I could just show them initially, 00:41:22.872 --> 00:41:24.222 but they will eventually. 00:41:24.457 --> 00:41:28.877 See the magic that happens, , and then they'll be like, Oh, 00:41:28.877 --> 00:41:30.217 why didn't I do this earlier? 00:41:30.217 --> 00:41:35.447 So it's, there's a certain magic that happens when this, when you 00:41:35.447 --> 00:41:40.777 start taking your kids outdoors and when that happens, they're the, the 00:41:40.777 --> 00:41:43.917 ahas to start sparking everywhere. 00:41:44.477 --> 00:41:48.197 So I always tell the teachers that I introduced the five phases of 00:41:48.197 --> 00:41:52.137 teaching outdoors, figure out where you are, take it very, very slow 00:41:52.587 --> 00:41:54.367 and then think of it as a habit. 00:41:54.962 --> 00:41:56.482 And to add on to your habit. 00:41:57.462 --> 00:41:58.852 That's really good advice. 00:41:59.612 --> 00:42:06.382 Victoria, tell people where they can find you, how you can help 00:42:06.382 --> 00:42:11.602 them, how they can join Outdoor Classrooms and your Circle community. 00:42:12.682 --> 00:42:18.192 So if anybody is listening and they need help with getting started with 00:42:18.192 --> 00:42:25.102 Outdoor Classrooms, and they can get hold of you and your amazing 00:42:25.102 --> 00:42:27.882 knowledge and experience in this field. 00:42:28.762 --> 00:42:32.602 Tell them how they can get hold of you and how you can help them. 00:42:33.762 --> 00:42:34.792 Oh, thank you for that. 00:42:35.372 --> 00:42:41.272 You can find me at my, on my website, all the information is there and that's www. 00:42:41.312 --> 00:42:44.592 outdoor dash classrooms with an s. com. 00:42:45.462 --> 00:42:48.702 And I work with schools. 00:42:48.702 --> 00:42:49.772 I work with parents. 00:42:49.802 --> 00:42:57.002 I work with in any capacity that I usually, will do a introductory call 00:42:57.002 --> 00:42:59.212 just to find out what your needs are. 00:42:59.212 --> 00:43:01.232 So happy , to do that. 00:43:01.682 --> 00:43:04.372 So a lot of my information is on my website. 00:43:04.372 --> 00:43:06.452 I'm also on Instagram and Facebook. 00:43:06.912 --> 00:43:12.582 And, we have a lovely, , community called the Circle Membership Community, which 00:43:12.582 --> 00:43:17.382 is , a group of educators from all over the world, that we come together, we 00:43:17.382 --> 00:43:21.052 come together live twice a month and we have different workshops and masterclasses 00:43:21.052 --> 00:43:27.742 and they get access to a lot of the resources that I offer on the website. 00:43:28.502 --> 00:43:31.382 so, and again, if you didn't want to have consulting or anything like 00:43:31.382 --> 00:43:35.622 that, you can also go to the website to find one hour workshops, , and 00:43:35.952 --> 00:43:37.692 our community and, , what else? 00:43:37.692 --> 00:43:42.132 It's just, a potpourri of wonderful support if you're looking for that. 00:43:42.142 --> 00:43:47.232 So it's, it's a very niche world, this world of outdoor classrooms, and it's, 00:43:47.612 --> 00:43:53.362 the circle community has enabled a lot of us educators to come together 00:43:53.372 --> 00:43:59.437 and talk just like this, to, um, Share what's working, what's not working 00:43:59.447 --> 00:44:02.777 and, and again, what you really need is that we're all over the country. 00:44:02.777 --> 00:44:03.167 So 00:44:04.217 --> 00:44:04.877 it's amazing. 00:44:05.447 --> 00:44:10.917 So even for international educators and international school leaders, 00:44:11.447 --> 00:44:14.967 you also would help them and they can get hold of you and even get 00:44:14.967 --> 00:44:17.642 some consulting advice from you. 00:44:17.872 --> 00:44:21.282 I will put all your details in the show notes as well. 00:44:21.592 --> 00:44:26.942 So anybody who's interested, I really, really, Victoria's got a fabulous website 00:44:27.392 --> 00:44:32.272 and loads and loads of information because I've been on there many, many 00:44:32.272 --> 00:44:35.232 times and there is just a plethora. 00:44:35.427 --> 00:44:40.067 of information for anybody who's interested in outdoor 00:44:40.067 --> 00:44:41.927 classrooms or outdoor learning. 00:44:42.397 --> 00:44:46.817 Victoria, is there anything else that you would like to add to everything 00:44:46.817 --> 00:44:48.507 that we've already discussed today? 00:44:49.497 --> 00:44:55.327 Just get outdoors and create fun environments that allow 00:44:55.337 --> 00:44:57.717 you to say yes to the mess. 00:44:58.227 --> 00:44:58.407 Oh, 00:44:58.437 --> 00:45:01.537 what a great slogan, say yes to the mess, 00:45:01.947 --> 00:45:04.677 I love that, that 00:45:05.807 --> 00:45:06.507 there it is. 00:45:06.507 --> 00:45:07.487 Yes to the mess. 00:45:08.067 --> 00:45:11.937 I , also I have a podcast as well, so it's, uh, the Outdoor Classrooms podcast. 00:45:12.307 --> 00:45:14.137 The Outdoor Classroom Podcast. 00:45:14.447 --> 00:45:17.547 I'll put that in the show notes as well for anyone who's interested. 00:45:18.067 --> 00:45:22.217 So, , I'm just going to finish off by saying thank you so much, Victoria, 00:45:22.227 --> 00:45:24.417 for being on Blooming Curious. 00:45:24.887 --> 00:45:26.977 It's been absolutely amazing. 00:45:26.987 --> 00:45:31.617 And I think the information that you've given is incredible for 00:45:31.677 --> 00:45:33.547 any educator or parent out there. 00:45:34.737 --> 00:45:37.457 So I'm really, really thrilled and grateful. 00:45:37.797 --> 00:45:43.497 That you have shared your knowledge today with everybody listening. 00:45:43.587 --> 00:45:49.587 And as I always say to everybody listening, stay Blooming Curious. 00:45:50.617 --> 00:45:51.797 And thank you for being here.