WEBVTT 00:00:02.079 --> 00:00:04.679 Welcome to episode six of the Men of Issachar 00:00:04.679 --> 00:00:07.820 podcast. We're going to be talking about a subject 00:00:07.820 --> 00:00:10.259 that is not the most fun to talk about, but I 00:00:10.259 --> 00:00:13.279 think definitely is and is becoming more and 00:00:13.279 --> 00:00:16.899 more so relevant to the world landscape and to 00:00:16.899 --> 00:00:19.519 the local landscape. We're going to be giving 00:00:19.519 --> 00:00:22.300 you tools to gain wisdom on this subject and 00:00:22.300 --> 00:00:25.839 gain truthful and biblical perspective. And we 00:00:25.839 --> 00:00:27.879 just want to raise awareness on a subject that 00:00:27.879 --> 00:00:30.199 is creeping its way into positions of power and 00:00:30.199 --> 00:00:33.240 influence. We're going to be talking about the 00:00:33.240 --> 00:00:37.060 religion of Islam. I want to draw the distinction 00:00:37.060 --> 00:00:40.200 now that we're not blaming the people that have 00:00:40.200 --> 00:00:43.640 fallen subject to or are born into Islam. We're 00:00:43.640 --> 00:00:46.939 calling out the spirit behind it all. We love 00:00:46.939 --> 00:00:49.820 and pray for these folks, and our enemies are 00:00:49.820 --> 00:00:53.159 not flesh and blood, but spiritual. I think we 00:00:53.159 --> 00:00:56.000 are witnessing our country's lack of wisdom and 00:00:56.000 --> 00:00:59.840 deception give ground to the enemy. We're just 00:00:59.840 --> 00:01:01.899 saying that we need to take it back before it's 00:01:01.899 --> 00:01:04.680 too late, and the deception has reached a critical 00:01:04.680 --> 00:01:10.219 threshold. So sit back, relax, and take in this 00:01:10.219 --> 00:01:13.780 conversation with Jeff Wright, Terry Gant, and 00:01:13.780 --> 00:01:17.819 myself, Jason Gull, as we strive to be men of 00:01:17.819 --> 00:01:28.579 this cigar. Welcome everyone to the Men of Issachar 00:01:28.579 --> 00:01:31.579 podcast. This is episode six. We're going to 00:01:31.579 --> 00:01:34.379 be discussing some of Raymond Ibrahim's books 00:01:34.379 --> 00:01:37.439 and talking about the Crusades. Guys, where do 00:01:37.439 --> 00:01:40.879 we go from here? Well, Raymond Ibrahim came up 00:01:40.879 --> 00:01:45.159 once earlier in a podcast with, I was working 00:01:45.159 --> 00:01:48.879 on a review for American Reformer. And so I had 00:01:48.879 --> 00:01:51.599 gotten an advanced copy of his most recent book, 00:01:51.599 --> 00:01:54.540 which is called The Two Swords of Christ. And 00:01:54.540 --> 00:01:58.310 it's the third in a... kind of a trilogy, all 00:01:58.310 --> 00:02:01.030 three on the Crusades. They're a really good 00:02:01.030 --> 00:02:03.109 intro into the importance of the Crusades and 00:02:03.109 --> 00:02:05.390 the historical truth of the Crusades. And so 00:02:05.390 --> 00:02:07.950 he started off with Sword and Scimitar, which 00:02:07.950 --> 00:02:11.310 mostly focused on the important events of the 00:02:11.310 --> 00:02:14.409 Crusades, predominantly battles and sieges and 00:02:14.409 --> 00:02:17.449 things like that. So he followed that up with 00:02:17.449 --> 00:02:20.349 Defenders of the West, which was many biographies 00:02:20.349 --> 00:02:23.629 of, I want to say nine guys. It's either nine 00:02:23.629 --> 00:02:26.620 or 10. Yeah. Maybe I can't remember now exactly, 00:02:27.099 --> 00:02:29.740 but it's many biographies of those guys and they're 00:02:29.740 --> 00:02:31.919 arranged kind of chronologically. Some of them 00:02:31.919 --> 00:02:33.500 were contemporaries with each other. So they 00:02:33.500 --> 00:02:36.060 cross paths a little bit, but it goes from the 00:02:36.060 --> 00:02:38.039 very first crusade all the way kind of through 00:02:38.039 --> 00:02:40.879 where the crusades were essentially defending 00:02:40.879 --> 00:02:43.960 the heartland of Eastern Europe, where the Ottomans 00:02:43.960 --> 00:02:46.580 were pushing their way in. So kind of through 00:02:46.580 --> 00:02:49.460 the kind of the end of the Crusades. And then 00:02:49.460 --> 00:02:52.479 the Two Swords of Christ emphasizes specifically 00:02:52.479 --> 00:02:55.120 the orders of knighthood that were church affiliated, 00:02:55.919 --> 00:02:58.280 the most famous two of which are the Hospitallers 00:02:58.280 --> 00:03:01.800 and the Templars. And he debunks a lot of Templar 00:03:01.800 --> 00:03:05.219 mythology and focuses on a lot of the events 00:03:05.219 --> 00:03:07.120 that they participated in and gets kind of down 00:03:07.120 --> 00:03:08.919 into like, what were they? What did they do? 00:03:09.280 --> 00:03:11.479 How did they come to be formed? Those kinds of 00:03:11.479 --> 00:03:14.620 things. that's his three works on that. Now he 00:03:14.620 --> 00:03:20.520 also maintains an ongoing blog where he researches 00:03:20.520 --> 00:03:23.259 and kind of reports on Islamic violence against 00:03:23.259 --> 00:03:26.180 mostly Christians in the Middle East. That's 00:03:26.180 --> 00:03:29.120 kind of an intro to his work, I guess. And if 00:03:29.120 --> 00:03:31.960 we're kind of talking about why do we care in 00:03:31.960 --> 00:03:35.120 2025 about these medieval efforts, the personal 00:03:35.120 --> 00:03:38.259 angle I would give to that is The government 00:03:38.259 --> 00:03:40.219 school education I had actually did touch on 00:03:40.219 --> 00:03:42.840 the crusades and it was just kind of basically 00:03:42.840 --> 00:03:45.419 the crusades are bad. And the one that I remember 00:03:45.419 --> 00:03:48.099 standing out the most in that summary from my 00:03:48.099 --> 00:03:50.159 government school days was the children's crusade 00:03:50.159 --> 00:03:53.560 where, you know, basically these children were 00:03:53.560 --> 00:03:55.860 gathered together because they thought the purity 00:03:55.860 --> 00:03:58.280 of their heart would give them victory. And they 00:03:58.280 --> 00:03:59.960 just lead them out into the deserts and they're 00:03:59.960 --> 00:04:02.099 preyed upon. Yeah, they get captured and made 00:04:02.099 --> 00:04:06.460 slaves and worse. And so that's That's really 00:04:06.460 --> 00:04:10.080 parallel to how I met Jonathan Edwards as a Puritan, 00:04:10.819 --> 00:04:13.580 because the vision of the Puritans you get in 00:04:13.580 --> 00:04:14.659 government school, or at least at the time that 00:04:14.659 --> 00:04:17.620 I went through it, was, look at how dry and dour 00:04:17.620 --> 00:04:19.720 and awful these people are. You read Sinners 00:04:19.720 --> 00:04:21.920 in the Hands of an Angry God. You may read The 00:04:21.920 --> 00:04:25.480 Scarlet Letter. That and The Crucible are the 00:04:25.480 --> 00:04:28.620 only two literary works that anybody really touches 00:04:28.620 --> 00:04:32.819 with Puritans. You get this, what I now know, 00:04:33.019 --> 00:04:36.439 incredibly biased. Very not even two -dimensional 00:04:36.439 --> 00:04:39.579 one -dimensional misrepresentation of them. It's 00:04:39.579 --> 00:04:41.439 very parallel to the crusade So then I get to 00:04:41.439 --> 00:04:44.439 seminary and church history is not a major of 00:04:44.439 --> 00:04:48.240 mine, but I'm an amateur in the sense of I think 00:04:48.240 --> 00:04:50.220 History is the greatest story church history 00:04:50.220 --> 00:04:54.139 is maybe the best version of it So I'm just regularly 00:04:54.139 --> 00:04:56.839 reading church history for fascination and profit 00:04:56.839 --> 00:04:58.980 of learning from previous generations And it 00:04:58.980 --> 00:05:01.220 wasn't a lot different, you know the dominant 00:05:01.470 --> 00:05:03.970 I went to a very conservative seminary, but the 00:05:03.970 --> 00:05:06.889 dominant narrative about the crusades were, this 00:05:06.889 --> 00:05:10.449 is a waste of time at best. And at worst, it's 00:05:10.449 --> 00:05:13.490 this deep compromise of the church where she 00:05:13.490 --> 00:05:18.310 would dare take up a sword. And so... And everybody's 00:05:18.310 --> 00:05:19.829 assumption is always, well, they were trying 00:05:19.829 --> 00:05:24.149 to convert under force of violence, which is 00:05:24.149 --> 00:05:26.470 not typical, right? When you read Ibrahim's books, 00:05:26.490 --> 00:05:29.829 that was not usually the deal. Well, and that 00:05:29.829 --> 00:05:32.490 narrative too... I mean, really, the effect of 00:05:32.490 --> 00:05:35.550 it is to say this version of medieval Christianity 00:05:35.550 --> 00:05:37.790 is not much different from Islam. Yeah, right. 00:05:38.089 --> 00:05:39.870 They just want to force people to do what they 00:05:39.870 --> 00:05:42.189 say. And that's, that would be, in my opinion, 00:05:42.269 --> 00:05:44.050 that's kind of the best version you're going 00:05:44.050 --> 00:05:47.769 to get in a lot of modern education settings. 00:05:47.910 --> 00:05:49.490 It's going to be, well, it was just a, it was 00:05:49.490 --> 00:05:53.089 a traditional land war over resources and territory. 00:05:53.589 --> 00:05:55.449 And the Christians were allied with each other 00:05:55.449 --> 00:05:57.069 and the Muslims were allied with each other and 00:05:57.069 --> 00:05:59.370 they just kind of fought. Religion was a pretext. 00:06:00.139 --> 00:06:02.399 Um, and that's about they, I think that they 00:06:02.399 --> 00:06:04.160 think that that comes across as more neutral. 00:06:05.519 --> 00:06:08.279 So, well, and that, that's still, I think probably 00:06:08.279 --> 00:06:10.220 if you could do a broad survey in some way, kind 00:06:10.220 --> 00:06:12.680 of dominant. So some of our listeners may know 00:06:12.680 --> 00:06:14.699 the name James White. He's kind of prominent 00:06:14.699 --> 00:06:18.319 reform Baptist circles. He still is kind of selling 00:06:18.319 --> 00:06:20.439 this narrative on social media. Anytime it comes 00:06:20.439 --> 00:06:22.860 up, sometimes in response to what Ibrahim has 00:06:22.860 --> 00:06:26.339 written. So somebody told me how great, it might've 00:06:26.339 --> 00:06:28.079 been you, Terry could have been Nick Duncan. 00:06:28.180 --> 00:06:31.290 Somebody told me how great. The book was in sort 00:06:31.290 --> 00:06:33.569 of my online circles, people were talking and 00:06:33.569 --> 00:06:36.870 raving about it. I read the book and I felt, 00:06:37.009 --> 00:06:38.350 I think I mentioned this the last time we kind 00:06:38.350 --> 00:06:40.009 of talked about this briefly. I felt this deep 00:06:40.009 --> 00:06:43.990 sense of shame after Ibrahim puts all these primary 00:06:43.990 --> 00:06:47.069 sources in front of me. It's not editorial. It's 00:06:47.069 --> 00:06:48.889 not somebody telling me, look how bad these people 00:06:48.889 --> 00:06:51.730 are. It's a robust presentation from primary 00:06:51.730 --> 00:06:55.089 sources. And the conclusion I came away with 00:06:55.089 --> 00:06:57.250 was these are some of the best Christians that 00:06:57.250 --> 00:07:01.389 the world has ever seen. I was a monster for 00:07:01.389 --> 00:07:03.589 just kind of following the false narrative about 00:07:03.589 --> 00:07:07.610 them. So if you're wondering why you care, well, 00:07:07.629 --> 00:07:10.129 friends, you may not care, but I would encourage 00:07:10.129 --> 00:07:12.189 you to start caring by picking up these books. 00:07:13.490 --> 00:07:15.670 Jason, what was your, is this consistent with 00:07:15.670 --> 00:07:17.589 your education in the crusades when you were 00:07:17.589 --> 00:07:20.389 coming up? Yeah, when I was coming up, it was 00:07:20.389 --> 00:07:22.810 kind of a blight on, you know, the Christian 00:07:22.810 --> 00:07:27.410 name and it kind of, it made me see Islam and 00:07:27.410 --> 00:07:30.250 Christianity, it made me understand how people 00:07:30.250 --> 00:07:34.310 could see them in the same vein. The more I learned 00:07:34.310 --> 00:07:38.550 about it, it was really, like Jeff said, is eye 00:07:38.550 --> 00:07:42.189 -opening. It helped me to understand the difference 00:07:42.189 --> 00:07:47.689 at the core of the Christians of yesterday and 00:07:47.689 --> 00:07:50.310 that they were truly doing it with a good heart. 00:07:51.640 --> 00:07:53.980 Now we would say, I think, and Ibrahim even points 00:07:53.980 --> 00:07:55.600 this out, these guys would have been what we 00:07:55.600 --> 00:07:58.480 would consider today to be Roman Catholic. I 00:07:58.480 --> 00:07:59.620 don't know if they would have used that term 00:07:59.620 --> 00:08:01.720 or not at the time, but their beliefs would have 00:08:01.720 --> 00:08:04.759 been consistent in a lot of modern Catholic beliefs. 00:08:04.800 --> 00:08:07.959 So we would have doctrinal issues. If I had a 00:08:07.959 --> 00:08:09.779 crusader here in the room, we would probably 00:08:09.779 --> 00:08:12.040 dispute some things. That's true. Yeah, this 00:08:12.040 --> 00:08:15.459 is far enough back though that, I mean, you know, 00:08:15.600 --> 00:08:18.279 the Reformation isn't launched till the 1500s. 00:08:18.279 --> 00:08:21.240 Right. some of these guys are double digit centuries 00:08:21.240 --> 00:08:24.160 before. The Eastern Orthodox can claim them. 00:08:24.560 --> 00:08:26.500 And for those of us who are Protestant, we all 00:08:26.500 --> 00:08:28.639 kind of look back. Everybody loves Augustine. 00:08:28.759 --> 00:08:31.399 Every tradition loves Augustine. These guys are 00:08:31.399 --> 00:08:33.320 sort of in that same category. Yeah, I agree 00:08:33.320 --> 00:08:36.200 with that. You get into their theology, they're 00:08:36.200 --> 00:08:37.679 steeped in Catholic theology, but it was the 00:08:37.679 --> 00:08:42.100 only Christian theology. Aquinas dominated everybody 00:08:42.100 --> 00:08:45.879 in this era. And so, I guess the way I would 00:08:45.879 --> 00:08:49.850 address that is, yeah, there's there's historical 00:08:49.850 --> 00:08:52.750 doctrinal differences, but they had no source 00:08:52.750 --> 00:08:55.809 of comparison. And what comes across in Ibrahim, 00:08:55.990 --> 00:08:58.490 again, from primary sources, is that they had 00:08:58.490 --> 00:09:02.429 a rich devotional relationship with Christ. As 00:09:02.429 --> 00:09:04.549 evangelicals, we tend to think of that as more 00:09:04.549 --> 00:09:07.549 of an authentic version of the faith. These people 00:09:07.549 --> 00:09:09.850 were incredibly pious in the traditional sense 00:09:09.850 --> 00:09:11.929 of the word and had a deep affection for Christ 00:09:11.929 --> 00:09:15.149 and his people. Yeah, so let me ask this, this 00:09:15.149 --> 00:09:17.830 is before we get into the details of these books 00:09:17.830 --> 00:09:21.230 and the Crusades themselves. This kind of relates 00:09:21.230 --> 00:09:23.629 to the Puritans as well, but how important do 00:09:23.629 --> 00:09:27.889 you think that it is for Christians to have historical 00:09:27.889 --> 00:09:30.470 heroes? I will come at this as like a history 00:09:30.470 --> 00:09:35.210 of ideas issue. So, historical heroes, one of 00:09:35.210 --> 00:09:37.929 the primary functions they serve is they give 00:09:37.929 --> 00:09:40.590 credibility to the claims of our faith, that 00:09:40.590 --> 00:09:42.830 this can be lived It's not going to be lived 00:09:42.830 --> 00:09:45.870 perfectly, but men can attain growth in the faith, 00:09:46.009 --> 00:09:49.149 right? Right. And here's where I do reverse reading 00:09:49.149 --> 00:09:53.389 from the era that I've come of age in. Postmodernism 00:09:53.389 --> 00:09:56.750 wants you to have no heroes. Yeah. Yeah. Everybody 00:09:56.750 --> 00:10:00.950 is a hypocrite. Everybody is, you know. Well, 00:10:00.950 --> 00:10:03.129 the revisionists is everybody that you liked 00:10:03.129 --> 00:10:05.850 in history was secretly gay. Yeah. Everybody 00:10:05.850 --> 00:10:08.789 was actually a monster in some way. Yes. They 00:10:08.789 --> 00:10:12.049 were all frauds. Yes. And here's the thing, there's 00:10:12.049 --> 00:10:14.169 enough examples of that in history that that 00:10:14.169 --> 00:10:18.850 becomes credible if you read broadly. But having 00:10:18.850 --> 00:10:21.870 actual heroes that you can document through primary 00:10:21.870 --> 00:10:25.529 sources that were actually noble. One, again, 00:10:25.529 --> 00:10:28.830 like I said, it's important for you as a Christian, 00:10:29.110 --> 00:10:30.889 if you're struggling, you're in difficult spots 00:10:30.889 --> 00:10:33.450 to say, oh yeah, after the apostles, there were 00:10:33.450 --> 00:10:35.350 actually people who authentically lived the faith. 00:10:35.490 --> 00:10:38.269 So that's a real encouragement. The other thing 00:10:38.269 --> 00:10:40.250 is it's apparently important to the bad guys. 00:10:40.399 --> 00:10:44.360 to make sure you have no heroes. So you should 00:10:44.360 --> 00:10:47.740 be cultivating a garden of them. I mean, it's 00:10:47.740 --> 00:10:49.899 easy for me to go, and I realize this may be 00:10:49.899 --> 00:10:53.840 controversial to some of our listeners, and I 00:10:53.840 --> 00:10:55.320 don't know that I reflect the opinion of the 00:10:55.320 --> 00:10:56.559 room. I don't speak on behalf of these other 00:10:56.559 --> 00:10:59.480 guys here, but Robert E. Lee is another example 00:10:59.480 --> 00:11:02.539 of this, that he's supposed to be viewed entirely 00:11:02.539 --> 00:11:05.919 as someone who supported slavery and therefore 00:11:05.919 --> 00:11:09.039 has nothing of value to offer society ever again. 00:11:09.179 --> 00:11:12.669 He should be Not just cast on the dustbin of 00:11:12.669 --> 00:11:15.490 history, but he should be, you know, denigrated. 00:11:15.850 --> 00:11:18.169 The statues have to come down. You read Robert 00:11:18.169 --> 00:11:20.049 E. Lee, you read what people thought about Robert 00:11:20.049 --> 00:11:22.750 E. Lee, and here again, you think, oh, this may 00:11:22.750 --> 00:11:25.149 be one of the greatest men that the continent 00:11:25.149 --> 00:11:28.789 I live on ever produced. And you can just tell. 00:11:29.289 --> 00:11:30.950 I mean, they literally melted his statue down 00:11:30.950 --> 00:11:32.970 and published the pictures of the molten statue. 00:11:33.450 --> 00:11:36.629 It's a humiliation ritual. Well, they tore up 00:11:36.629 --> 00:11:39.269 the plaque that stood over the grave of his horse. 00:11:39.559 --> 00:11:42.039 Yeah. I mean, and then they put up some memorial 00:11:42.039 --> 00:11:43.980 to like the horses that the Confederates were 00:11:43.980 --> 00:11:45.820 mean to or something like that. I can't remember, 00:11:46.000 --> 00:11:48.700 but it really is that ridiculous and petty. Well, 00:11:48.820 --> 00:11:52.100 I'll touch on this later. Uh, some follow -up 00:11:52.100 --> 00:11:55.820 questions, but just to mention the tactics that 00:11:55.820 --> 00:11:59.740 Islam uses in this day and age, uh, they use 00:11:59.740 --> 00:12:03.259 a lot of Marxist tactics. Uh, and that's, that's 00:12:03.259 --> 00:12:06.460 one of them is, is rewriting history. Uh, you 00:12:06.460 --> 00:12:09.879 know, putting it shining in a bad light. Yeah, 00:12:09.879 --> 00:12:13.600 it's almost like you can see common family features 00:12:13.600 --> 00:12:17.279 and satanic endeavors. Yeah, it totally is. We'll 00:12:17.279 --> 00:12:19.759 get into that later, but yeah. So anyway, Terry, 00:12:19.820 --> 00:12:21.340 just to come back and put a fine point on it. 00:12:21.340 --> 00:12:24.399 Yeah, I think to what degree of importance, it's 00:12:24.399 --> 00:12:26.179 not as important as gathering with your church 00:12:26.179 --> 00:12:29.700 on the Lord's day. It's not as important as your 00:12:29.700 --> 00:12:32.059 own devotional life and your family worship time, 00:12:32.519 --> 00:12:35.659 but like right behind that, I think it, you know, 00:12:35.799 --> 00:12:38.879 fourth slot. for all the reasons we've talked 00:12:38.879 --> 00:12:40.700 about. It's incredibly important. You know, growing 00:12:40.700 --> 00:12:45.000 up as a kid, you like action, action guys, soldiers 00:12:45.000 --> 00:12:48.019 and cops and firemen. And some people grow out 00:12:48.019 --> 00:12:50.799 of that and some people don't. And I've just, 00:12:50.960 --> 00:12:55.000 I like guys that did action things. And so I've 00:12:55.000 --> 00:12:57.080 had Christian heroes, guys like you mentioned, 00:12:57.100 --> 00:12:59.639 Jonathan Edwards, right? Like he did some interesting 00:12:59.639 --> 00:13:01.480 things, but I mean, mostly he was a preacher 00:13:01.480 --> 00:13:03.419 and he lived his faith and he was a good hero 00:13:03.419 --> 00:13:05.840 to have. And when I read Defenders of the West, 00:13:06.350 --> 00:13:10.009 just thought these guys are action guys and they're 00:13:10.009 --> 00:13:12.750 like this is what it really looked like to be 00:13:12.750 --> 00:13:15.149 And you said you had a deep sense of shame because 00:13:15.149 --> 00:13:17.389 you didn't arrive at this conclusion on your 00:13:17.389 --> 00:13:18.970 own Like you you know, you felt like you kind 00:13:18.970 --> 00:13:21.799 of had had been hoodwinked by bad. And betrayed 00:13:21.799 --> 00:13:23.740 my brothers by letting people lie to me about 00:13:23.740 --> 00:13:26.379 them. And I feel a sense of shame when I look 00:13:26.379 --> 00:13:28.340 at that and think I'm not doing what they're 00:13:28.340 --> 00:13:30.159 doing. And that's not to say that I want to go 00:13:30.159 --> 00:13:32.059 take up sword and go, you know, butcher people. 00:13:32.500 --> 00:13:34.320 But, you know, some of, you know, just to, we're 00:13:34.320 --> 00:13:35.740 going to get into some of the names, but the 00:13:35.740 --> 00:13:39.220 first guy, Wright Godfrey was a nobleman who 00:13:39.220 --> 00:13:41.879 mortgaged his estate and, you know, spent great 00:13:41.879 --> 00:13:43.620 amounts of money. He wasn't the only one. The 00:13:43.620 --> 00:13:45.700 King, King Louis the ninth almost went bankrupt. 00:13:45.960 --> 00:13:47.879 fighting the Crusades. And so these are guys 00:13:47.879 --> 00:13:50.559 that believed in it. And it wasn't just that 00:13:50.559 --> 00:13:52.639 they were willing to risk their skin, but they 00:13:52.639 --> 00:13:55.159 were willing to risk their family's future and 00:13:55.159 --> 00:13:58.120 livelihood in some cases. Their ancestral holdings. 00:13:58.120 --> 00:14:01.279 They took great risk to do what they believed 00:14:01.279 --> 00:14:05.519 was the right thing to do. So the Crusades and 00:14:05.519 --> 00:14:07.980 I don't know if I, again, just to kind of echo 00:14:07.980 --> 00:14:09.639 Jeff, I don't know if I echo everyone's opinion, 00:14:09.639 --> 00:14:11.779 but I think I probably do. The Crusades were 00:14:11.779 --> 00:14:14.480 a fully justified military intervention to protect 00:14:14.480 --> 00:14:19.309 Christians. from predation by Islam that started 00:14:19.309 --> 00:14:24.570 in 1090 or so, not long after the Norman invasion 00:14:24.570 --> 00:14:26.789 of England, right? We kind of think of that almost 00:14:26.789 --> 00:14:30.710 as prehistory now, but mostly led by Franks or 00:14:30.710 --> 00:14:32.330 the French at that time. That's where all the 00:14:32.330 --> 00:14:35.090 best knights were at the time. And when the French 00:14:35.090 --> 00:14:38.070 were great. Yeah, they were. So our first guy 00:14:38.070 --> 00:14:41.490 is Godfrey of Bouillon, led the first crusade 00:14:41.490 --> 00:14:43.669 almost single -handedly, did all kinds of amazing 00:14:43.669 --> 00:14:45.879 things. I don't know, do we want to share some 00:14:45.879 --> 00:14:47.919 anecdotes about this? He almost cut a man in 00:14:47.919 --> 00:14:50.940 half long ways with his sword. And somebody later 00:14:50.940 --> 00:14:54.200 challenged him and said, is that story really 00:14:54.200 --> 00:14:56.720 true? This is one of those Muslim dignitaries 00:14:56.720 --> 00:14:59.139 that came to visit the kingdom of Jerusalem after 00:14:59.139 --> 00:15:01.639 the first crusade was successful. And he was 00:15:01.639 --> 00:15:04.240 like, yeah, that did happen. And he said, well, 00:15:04.320 --> 00:15:05.820 you know, how sharp is your sword? And he was 00:15:05.820 --> 00:15:07.259 like, well, it wasn't the sword. It was because 00:15:07.259 --> 00:15:10.059 I practice and I'm super strong basically. So 00:15:10.059 --> 00:15:12.340 he brought a camel. into the court there. And 00:15:12.340 --> 00:15:14.039 he was like, can you chop off a camel's head 00:15:14.039 --> 00:15:16.720 in one stroke? And he was like, yeah. So he did. 00:15:17.320 --> 00:15:19.600 And he said, well, I think your sword is just 00:15:19.600 --> 00:15:21.340 super sharp. And he's like, give me a different 00:15:21.340 --> 00:15:23.320 sword. Didn't he maybe say, give me your sword? 00:15:23.539 --> 00:15:26.340 Yeah. And so he gave the Muslim dignitary gave 00:15:26.340 --> 00:15:27.980 him his own sword and he did the same thing to 00:15:27.980 --> 00:15:31.820 a second camel. And now someone's crying about 00:15:31.820 --> 00:15:34.559 the dead camels probably. Which by the way, Terry, 00:15:34.559 --> 00:15:36.720 I was thinking the exact same thing. This goes 00:15:36.720 --> 00:15:39.580 back to your point about how young Christian 00:15:39.580 --> 00:15:44.500 men I mean, we've basically been told that kind 00:15:44.500 --> 00:15:47.679 of masculine display of power is bad and dangerous. 00:15:48.539 --> 00:15:51.419 Can't someone think of the camels? Yeah. You 00:15:51.419 --> 00:15:53.360 have to look up. And here's the thing, I do look 00:15:53.360 --> 00:15:55.320 up to Jonathan Edwards. I look up to John Owen. 00:15:55.419 --> 00:15:57.759 I look up to Charles Spurgeon, but those are 00:15:57.759 --> 00:16:01.100 like the only positive male role models. And 00:16:01.100 --> 00:16:04.740 that you resonate with that and don't care if 00:16:04.740 --> 00:16:06.860 people are freaking out about the camels. I would 00:16:06.860 --> 00:16:08.600 just say it's a good thing. Yeah, that's correct. 00:16:08.620 --> 00:16:10.139 Well, I'm sure they took them out and ate them, 00:16:10.139 --> 00:16:11.759 you know, like they probably didn't go to waste. 00:16:11.759 --> 00:16:13.720 I was about to say, my mind immediately goes 00:16:13.720 --> 00:16:16.000 to, that's the best meat I've ever had is camel 00:16:16.000 --> 00:16:18.799 hook. They're having a great barbecue after that. 00:16:18.820 --> 00:16:20.200 In fact, Ibrahim might even make a comment to 00:16:20.200 --> 00:16:21.559 that effect where it's like, yeah, they went, 00:16:21.559 --> 00:16:23.080 they would have, you know, butchered them and 00:16:23.080 --> 00:16:24.700 eaten them because that was a thing that was 00:16:24.700 --> 00:16:26.019 done at the time. I don't know if anybody still, 00:16:26.100 --> 00:16:27.759 I'm sure somebody does. I don't know if it's 00:16:27.759 --> 00:16:31.240 common, but yeah, they would have eaten them, 00:16:31.240 --> 00:16:32.879 I'm sure. So, you know, it would have been not 00:16:32.879 --> 00:16:34.899 that different from saying, Hey, these cows are 00:16:34.899 --> 00:16:36.559 ready for slaughter. Can you kill them in one 00:16:36.559 --> 00:16:38.919 shot? And he probably would have been able to. 00:16:39.000 --> 00:16:40.539 Which is a humane way to execute an animal. Yeah, 00:16:40.539 --> 00:16:42.100 sure. You know, they'd never know what hit them. 00:16:42.299 --> 00:16:46.240 And then they move on. So that's an example of 00:16:46.240 --> 00:16:49.120 one of his feats. He killed a bear, right? And 00:16:49.120 --> 00:16:53.039 they were out hunting. The Muslims had adopted 00:16:53.039 --> 00:16:55.120 some scorched earth tactics. So they had to hunt 00:16:55.120 --> 00:16:57.559 to supplement their nutrition for the army that 00:16:57.559 --> 00:16:59.659 he was marching through the Anatolian mountains. 00:17:00.340 --> 00:17:03.080 And he gets jumped by a bear and he stabs it 00:17:03.080 --> 00:17:05.829 to death with a sword. I don't know if you guys 00:17:05.829 --> 00:17:07.650 have ever stabbed just, I mean, have you ever 00:17:07.650 --> 00:17:09.789 fought a bear with a melee weapon? I've not. 00:17:10.250 --> 00:17:12.190 No, I've also seen the Revenant and I don't think 00:17:12.190 --> 00:17:15.509 my chances are very good. Yeah. So this guy managed 00:17:15.509 --> 00:17:17.450 to do it and I did get injured in the process, 00:17:17.450 --> 00:17:19.269 but he recovered and was able to get back in 00:17:19.269 --> 00:17:21.569 the fight out for a couple of weeks. Is my memory 00:17:21.569 --> 00:17:24.190 wrong, Terry, that with him, maybe the bear had 00:17:24.190 --> 00:17:26.630 first attacked one of his people. Right. It went 00:17:26.630 --> 00:17:28.930 after one of his guys. And he's like, no, you 00:17:28.930 --> 00:17:32.430 don't get to do that bear. Yeah. Yeah. He's a, 00:17:32.490 --> 00:17:34.500 I mean, all these guys literally are kings. Yeah. 00:17:34.940 --> 00:17:37.400 Is he also the one who leapt from the boat? Well, 00:17:37.400 --> 00:17:39.700 that was Richard. That was Richard. Yeah. So 00:17:39.700 --> 00:17:42.119 Richard the Lionheart. Richard the Lionheart, 00:17:42.279 --> 00:17:43.920 by the way, is one of the ones that they want 00:17:43.920 --> 00:17:45.700 to make the case for the fact that he was gay. 00:17:46.059 --> 00:17:47.400 They're like, yeah, because I don't think he 00:17:47.400 --> 00:17:49.720 had any male children or any children actually. 00:17:50.220 --> 00:17:52.779 You know, I first met that paradigm with King 00:17:52.779 --> 00:17:55.400 David, with Jonathan. Right. So like the militant 00:17:55.400 --> 00:17:57.920 men that are heroes of the faith immediately 00:17:57.920 --> 00:18:00.980 have to be closeted. Sure. That has to be how 00:18:00.980 --> 00:18:03.400 it goes. Yeah. But yeah, Richard the Lionheart 00:18:03.400 --> 00:18:05.839 was a true action here. In fact, Ibrahim shares 00:18:05.839 --> 00:18:08.920 an anecdote. Ibrahim is a Coptic Christian from 00:18:08.920 --> 00:18:12.559 Egypt and his family, his parents gave all their 00:18:12.559 --> 00:18:15.400 kids our names. And so when he was getting ready 00:18:15.400 --> 00:18:17.500 to be born, they were considering the name Richard, 00:18:17.700 --> 00:18:20.680 but he shared that in the Middle East, Richard 00:18:20.680 --> 00:18:23.140 would be kind of similar to a Christian naming 00:18:23.140 --> 00:18:25.279 their kid like Judas or something like that. 00:18:25.989 --> 00:18:28.769 because it's got so much, he's essentially a 00:18:28.769 --> 00:18:31.470 boogeyman to them. He says in there that at the 00:18:31.470 --> 00:18:35.009 time, and probably at events right after Richard's 00:18:35.009 --> 00:18:36.710 time, that the Muslims would tell their kids, 00:18:36.809 --> 00:18:38.710 you better behave or Richard's gonna get you. 00:18:38.910 --> 00:18:41.269 Like that was like an anecdote that he shared 00:18:41.269 --> 00:18:42.950 in the book that I thought was interesting, but 00:18:42.950 --> 00:18:45.589 they thought he was invincible. And he might've 00:18:45.589 --> 00:18:47.289 been, depending on how you want to define the 00:18:47.289 --> 00:18:49.569 term. Yeah, I mean, they kind of run together. 00:18:49.670 --> 00:18:50.950 I've read the book twice, but they kind of run 00:18:50.950 --> 00:18:53.829 together. Was he the one who was accidentally 00:18:53.829 --> 00:18:56.710 speared in the back and died from gangrene? No. 00:18:57.329 --> 00:18:59.450 He died, I think he was hit by a crossbow bolt. 00:18:59.829 --> 00:19:02.109 It was in France though, like they were on their 00:19:02.109 --> 00:19:04.950 way back and he decided to sack some French castles 00:19:04.950 --> 00:19:07.869 on the way. I think he had some beef with them 00:19:07.869 --> 00:19:10.990 from before. And some nobody. I think it was 00:19:10.990 --> 00:19:13.130 like a Coke or something, like picked up a crossbow 00:19:13.130 --> 00:19:15.450 and just randomly shot it and hit him. It can 00:19:15.450 --> 00:19:17.809 be kind of heartbreaking reading those stories 00:19:17.809 --> 00:19:20.849 from a couple different angles. And on the theme 00:19:20.849 --> 00:19:23.890 of them being invincible, it appears there is 00:19:23.890 --> 00:19:27.410 a period in time where God's martial spirit is 00:19:27.410 --> 00:19:30.630 so upon them that it's amazing. I mean, it's 00:19:30.630 --> 00:19:33.529 just unbelievable what they accomplish. And then 00:19:33.529 --> 00:19:36.869 for most of them, when that's over, the time 00:19:36.869 --> 00:19:40.289 is done. It ends in the most, you just come away 00:19:40.289 --> 00:19:42.569 going like, could we not have had one more run 00:19:42.569 --> 00:19:44.990 Lord? You know what I mean? But they're struck 00:19:44.990 --> 00:19:48.410 by a bolt or they get some kind of wasting disease. 00:19:48.670 --> 00:19:50.240 You know, it's just, stuff that comes out of 00:19:50.240 --> 00:19:52.059 nowhere. It really does seem like the Lord is 00:19:52.059 --> 00:19:54.799 like, here's your invincibility star. And when 00:19:54.799 --> 00:19:57.619 it ran out, you've exhausted yourself physically 00:19:57.619 --> 00:20:00.279 and something inexplicable is going to take you 00:20:00.279 --> 00:20:02.940 off the planet, you know? You got to read a new 00:20:02.940 --> 00:20:06.420 one. If you like stories like that, because it's 00:20:06.420 --> 00:20:09.160 loaded with those. I've started it just kind 00:20:09.160 --> 00:20:11.640 of setting the scene for the listener. So I think 00:20:11.640 --> 00:20:13.460 the primary abiding lesson is that these are 00:20:13.460 --> 00:20:16.069 men who believe the faith. thought it was worth 00:20:16.069 --> 00:20:18.009 defending, thought their people were worth defending 00:20:18.009 --> 00:20:20.250 and put real, as you've already said, very sacrificial 00:20:20.250 --> 00:20:22.369 actions. And these are not national friends, 00:20:22.670 --> 00:20:24.150 right? Like these people are not, they're just 00:20:24.150 --> 00:20:27.049 Christians who are ethnically different from 00:20:27.049 --> 00:20:29.210 them. Yep. And have very competing interests. 00:20:29.329 --> 00:20:31.769 Under different governments, yeah. And now some 00:20:31.769 --> 00:20:33.549 of them were pilgrims, right? Like the Franks 00:20:33.549 --> 00:20:35.150 had pilgrims that would go to the Holy Lands 00:20:35.150 --> 00:20:36.730 and they would get messed with. But a lot of 00:20:36.730 --> 00:20:38.910 it was the Christians in Armenia are calling 00:20:38.910 --> 00:20:42.430 for help. And so the crusaders from Italy would 00:20:42.430 --> 00:20:44.549 go. We're going to go help our brothers. And 00:20:44.549 --> 00:20:46.809 that's where I was going to go. But I do want 00:20:46.809 --> 00:20:48.450 to circle back, I think, to one other earlier 00:20:48.450 --> 00:20:50.329 point. But where I was going to go is they're 00:20:50.329 --> 00:20:53.990 so often left on an island by what should be 00:20:53.990 --> 00:20:56.349 their allies. And we can talk about that more 00:20:56.349 --> 00:20:58.210 in a minute. But to the listener who maybe still 00:20:58.210 --> 00:21:00.509 isn't bought in on like the Crusades were a good 00:21:00.509 --> 00:21:03.390 thing, you've got to understand that by the time 00:21:03.390 --> 00:21:07.690 Constantine comes, he starts monumentalizing 00:21:07.690 --> 00:21:10.849 the important areas of our faith historically. 00:21:11.049 --> 00:21:13.750 And Abraham's introductory essay to the third 00:21:13.750 --> 00:21:17.750 book is really good on this. The physical events 00:21:17.750 --> 00:21:21.589 where the things Jesus did took place matter 00:21:21.589 --> 00:21:24.710 to us as Christians because we claim to be a 00:21:24.710 --> 00:21:28.009 historical faith. That Jesus died at a certain 00:21:28.009 --> 00:21:31.670 place as an act of history that is just as historic 00:21:31.670 --> 00:21:35.490 as the Twin Towers falling on 9 -11. Constantine 00:21:35.490 --> 00:21:38.230 understood that, made memorials out of these 00:21:38.230 --> 00:21:40.799 places. And Christians who wanted to be encouraged 00:21:40.799 --> 00:21:43.039 in their faith and sort of reconnect with the 00:21:43.039 --> 00:21:46.180 historical truth wanted access to those things. 00:21:46.740 --> 00:21:49.880 And Christians held those lands until Islam comes 00:21:49.880 --> 00:21:54.400 in as a predatory force. And in thievery takes 00:21:54.400 --> 00:21:56.619 those lands or attempts to take those lands eventually 00:21:56.619 --> 00:22:00.200 successful doing it. But this is not like what 00:22:00.200 --> 00:22:02.220 you said earlier. It's not a petty land squabble. 00:22:02.720 --> 00:22:06.650 These are significant factors in our faith. that 00:22:06.650 --> 00:22:09.269 were subject to predation and these crusaders 00:22:09.269 --> 00:22:11.329 rolled out to say, you just don't get to take 00:22:11.329 --> 00:22:13.470 them. Yeah, a lot of people forget because the 00:22:13.470 --> 00:22:16.250 world we live in, the Middle East is Muslim and 00:22:16.250 --> 00:22:18.670 that's just the way it is, right? It wasn't always. 00:22:18.690 --> 00:22:20.910 It wasn't though. That was the first place where 00:22:20.910 --> 00:22:23.490 the Christian church took root. And so all those 00:22:23.490 --> 00:22:26.710 areas that are now Muslim, North Africa, the 00:22:26.710 --> 00:22:29.750 Middle East, the Near East, Turkey, that was 00:22:29.750 --> 00:22:32.079 where the first Christian churches were. After 00:22:32.079 --> 00:22:33.799 the, you know, after the destruction of Jerusalem, 00:22:33.920 --> 00:22:35.839 the church scattered. Well, they scattered before 00:22:35.839 --> 00:22:37.579 that because of the persecution in Jerusalem. 00:22:37.779 --> 00:22:41.380 And that whole area was the cradle of our faith. 00:22:42.039 --> 00:22:44.960 And not just the Holy Lands, but, you know, Alexandria 00:22:44.960 --> 00:22:48.799 and Antioch and Syria and all these places that 00:22:48.799 --> 00:22:50.420 we now think of as like, well, they're all in 00:22:50.420 --> 00:22:52.880 Muslim hands and have been forever, but they're 00:22:52.880 --> 00:22:55.279 not. That's all stolen land. So all these people 00:22:55.279 --> 00:22:57.700 griping about your own stolen land, you can go 00:22:57.700 --> 00:23:00.069 tell that to the Muslims. Well, and Terry, if 00:23:00.069 --> 00:23:02.009 I can just kind of help my evangelical friends 00:23:02.009 --> 00:23:05.109 here, this is within God's providence, but you 00:23:05.109 --> 00:23:08.789 can see this in the biblical canon in Revelation 00:23:08.789 --> 00:23:11.849 when Jesus dispatches these letters to the churches 00:23:11.849 --> 00:23:15.329 of Revelation on a postal circuit. And he warns 00:23:15.329 --> 00:23:18.490 them, if you don't repent, I'll take your lampstand. 00:23:18.690 --> 00:23:22.250 And so, if you read history as God's providential 00:23:22.250 --> 00:23:26.029 action, he uses pagan nations to judge his people. 00:23:26.109 --> 00:23:30.440 And so, in unrepentance, I think probably Islam 00:23:30.440 --> 00:23:33.940 is this force of judgment that comes to accomplish 00:23:33.940 --> 00:23:37.000 the warning that Jesus gave. So what does a Christian 00:23:37.000 --> 00:23:39.359 do with that? Well, one, you would want to be 00:23:39.359 --> 00:23:41.150 repentant. right? You would want to say, well, 00:23:41.150 --> 00:23:43.069 I've taken the warning seriously, I've repented. 00:23:43.450 --> 00:23:45.670 You would also want to be the one who stands 00:23:45.670 --> 00:23:48.829 against that judgment in every way you can, first 00:23:48.829 --> 00:23:51.250 in repentance, second in, actually, this is our 00:23:51.250 --> 00:23:53.710 family property. You know, I want to be faithful 00:23:53.710 --> 00:23:56.210 in every sense of the word and reclaim it. And 00:23:56.210 --> 00:23:58.990 if this still sounds odd to an evangelical audience, 00:23:59.710 --> 00:24:02.329 I can't tell you how many conversations I've 00:24:02.329 --> 00:24:05.250 had with missionaries who are working in Central 00:24:05.250 --> 00:24:08.589 Asia, Turkey, places like that. And they say, 00:24:08.589 --> 00:24:11.970 this is the cradle of our faith. There's no indigenous 00:24:11.970 --> 00:24:15.450 church. My great passion is to reestablish a 00:24:15.450 --> 00:24:18.130 church there. That is part and parcel of the 00:24:18.130 --> 00:24:20.650 same spirit that animated the crusaders. They 00:24:20.650 --> 00:24:23.950 wanted to reestablish what was recently taken 00:24:23.950 --> 00:24:26.710 in that area. And so, if you think it's legitimate 00:24:26.710 --> 00:24:28.809 to say, well, we want to go reclaim that area 00:24:28.809 --> 00:24:31.049 for the gospel, you're in close fraternity with 00:24:31.049 --> 00:24:35.589 the crusaders. I want to pose a couple of questions. 00:24:35.769 --> 00:24:37.930 being in the spirit of the men of Issachar that 00:24:37.930 --> 00:24:40.430 knew the times and knew what to do, I don't claim 00:24:40.430 --> 00:24:42.730 to know what to do, but I sure want to look for 00:24:42.730 --> 00:24:45.630 the things to do. Do you think that, and this 00:24:45.630 --> 00:24:48.369 is a big question, do you think that Islam is 00:24:48.369 --> 00:24:52.549 compatible at all with America? No, not at all. 00:24:52.789 --> 00:24:55.730 I think Islam doesn't think it's compatible with 00:24:55.730 --> 00:24:59.059 America. I'm in agreement with that, but I'm 00:24:59.059 --> 00:25:02.319 just trying to pose these questions to help listeners 00:25:02.319 --> 00:25:04.319 understand. So here, there you've got kind of 00:25:04.319 --> 00:25:08.119 two things at play. One is that America is a 00:25:08.119 --> 00:25:10.900 Christian nation and it's filled with Christians. 00:25:11.240 --> 00:25:14.119 And the other one is that its structure, its 00:25:14.119 --> 00:25:16.480 founding documents were all established with 00:25:16.480 --> 00:25:18.920 Christian nation in mind. I mean, we see this 00:25:18.920 --> 00:25:22.000 now with the Somalian issues, right? And we'd 00:25:22.000 --> 00:25:23.680 be foolish to think that their religion doesn't 00:25:23.680 --> 00:25:25.220 play a role in the fact that they think it's 00:25:25.220 --> 00:25:28.000 entirely justifiable to steal everything, to 00:25:28.000 --> 00:25:30.480 move in and conquer things. They're not killing 00:25:30.480 --> 00:25:31.940 people. Well, I mean, there's crime, but they're 00:25:31.940 --> 00:25:35.759 not, this isn't an army. It's totally fine to 00:25:35.759 --> 00:25:37.619 them to just say, we're just going to take whatever 00:25:37.619 --> 00:25:42.539 we can from whoever. And the Haitians, to be 00:25:42.539 --> 00:25:44.500 fair, are not Muslim, but they do believe in 00:25:44.500 --> 00:25:46.400 a false religion too. Now, there are Christians 00:25:46.400 --> 00:25:49.599 amongst these ethnic groups, but it's really 00:25:49.599 --> 00:25:51.640 naive to think that there's any kind of significant 00:25:51.640 --> 00:25:55.200 minority of Christians amongst the Somalian refugees. 00:25:55.339 --> 00:25:57.519 And certainly a minority that could have an influence 00:25:57.519 --> 00:25:59.700 on the broader group. Right. Somalia is a Muslim 00:25:59.700 --> 00:26:02.180 country and the people that live there are Muslims. 00:26:02.880 --> 00:26:05.480 I want to play advocate for a second and just 00:26:05.480 --> 00:26:09.359 say, okay, well, what about the argument of America 00:26:09.359 --> 00:26:12.440 and the freedom of religion that we have here, 00:26:12.859 --> 00:26:16.299 why isn't it? I mean, why doesn't that play into 00:26:16.299 --> 00:26:19.279 this conversation? Well, because nobody understands 00:26:19.279 --> 00:26:22.579 the freedom of religion in the right way. So 00:26:22.579 --> 00:26:24.740 the First Amendment, which is what most people 00:26:24.740 --> 00:26:27.599 are referring to, only bars the federal government 00:26:27.599 --> 00:26:29.680 from establishing a specific denomination of 00:26:29.680 --> 00:26:32.980 Christianity as a state church. Yeah. And listen, 00:26:33.279 --> 00:26:37.569 lock in on that state. Church, right? So the 00:26:37.569 --> 00:26:40.069 comparison would be Anglicanism, right? And that's 00:26:40.069 --> 00:26:42.650 what they had departed from. So the Anglican 00:26:42.650 --> 00:26:45.349 Church is the state church of England. And you 00:26:45.349 --> 00:26:47.890 can see what shape that's in now, and the state 00:26:47.890 --> 00:26:52.490 that England is in. But the idea was that the 00:26:52.490 --> 00:26:55.210 minority groups were persecuted. And that's the 00:26:55.210 --> 00:26:56.950 reason for the Great Migration that took place 00:26:56.950 --> 00:27:00.410 in the 1630s, and the initial colonization that 00:27:00.410 --> 00:27:04.490 took place from 1607 to 1620 or so. when the 00:27:04.490 --> 00:27:07.289 first settlers came over from England, they were 00:27:07.289 --> 00:27:10.890 non -conformists, what were derogatorily called 00:27:10.890 --> 00:27:13.130 Puritans because they thought the Church of England 00:27:13.130 --> 00:27:16.230 still had too much Catholicity in it. That's 00:27:16.230 --> 00:27:18.130 the capital city. They thought it was too Romish. 00:27:18.950 --> 00:27:20.990 So they didn't want to do that way, but they 00:27:20.990 --> 00:27:24.029 were not allowed to work certain jobs, hold office. 00:27:24.109 --> 00:27:26.410 Some of them had been jailed. They couldn't preach 00:27:26.410 --> 00:27:28.769 within city limits. Right. They had restrictions 00:27:28.769 --> 00:27:31.049 on their worship. And they were told that in 00:27:31.049 --> 00:27:32.450 order to get around that, they would have to 00:27:32.450 --> 00:27:35.250 preach according to the Anglican Book of Common 00:27:35.250 --> 00:27:36.869 Prayer. Sorry, I'm going to say the Book of Church 00:27:36.869 --> 00:27:38.930 Order, but that's a different thing. So they 00:27:38.930 --> 00:27:40.589 didn't want to do that, even though the Book 00:27:40.589 --> 00:27:42.569 of Common Prayer is loaded with good stuff. At 00:27:42.569 --> 00:27:44.509 least the one Cranmer had a hand in. Right. They 00:27:44.509 --> 00:27:47.329 didn't agree with everything, so they wanted 00:27:47.329 --> 00:27:49.750 to purify it. That was where the name came from. 00:27:50.109 --> 00:27:52.789 So they fled from there to Amsterdam. They were 00:27:52.789 --> 00:27:54.509 there for a little while because Amsterdam did 00:27:54.509 --> 00:27:57.359 have religious toleration, but they said, If 00:27:57.359 --> 00:27:58.940 we raise our kids here, they're going to lose 00:27:58.940 --> 00:28:00.920 their Englishness. They're not going to be Englishmen 00:28:00.920 --> 00:28:04.220 anymore. We need to leave. Amazing, by the way. 00:28:04.240 --> 00:28:06.019 Yeah. When you think about what they're doing. 00:28:06.359 --> 00:28:08.200 Yeah. Think about what they're doing. So they 00:28:08.200 --> 00:28:11.440 had been persecuted, hounded, bothered, run out 00:28:11.440 --> 00:28:14.440 of town by their country, but they believed so 00:28:14.440 --> 00:28:17.859 strongly in remaining Englishmen that they thought 00:28:17.859 --> 00:28:22.039 we have to go from this relatively safe, established 00:28:22.039 --> 00:28:26.490 civilized place to wilderness. in North America, 00:28:26.730 --> 00:28:28.369 literal wilderness. There was nothing there except 00:28:28.369 --> 00:28:31.230 for some natives that were nearby. They established 00:28:31.230 --> 00:28:35.089 at great cost the American colonies. So fast 00:28:35.089 --> 00:28:37.529 forward a little bit and our founders decided 00:28:37.529 --> 00:28:39.829 that it's not a good idea for the federal government 00:28:39.829 --> 00:28:42.049 to have the ability to decide that there must 00:28:42.049 --> 00:28:44.789 be a particular state church that is endorsed 00:28:44.789 --> 00:28:48.089 by the national federal government. It does not 00:28:48.089 --> 00:28:50.809 and did not prohibit the states from doing that, 00:28:51.069 --> 00:28:52.650 though, because at the time of the founding, 00:28:52.789 --> 00:28:55.400 when the Constitution was signed, most if not 00:28:55.400 --> 00:28:58.900 all of the states had official churches. And 00:28:58.900 --> 00:29:01.099 the understanding was that it would be Christian 00:29:01.099 --> 00:29:05.960 churches. So the idea that there would never 00:29:05.960 --> 00:29:08.640 be any religions banned is a silly one. And we 00:29:08.640 --> 00:29:11.019 know that because if somebody came to this country 00:29:11.019 --> 00:29:13.460 and said, my religion authorizes cannibalism 00:29:13.460 --> 00:29:15.920 and murder, we would not tolerate that. Child 00:29:15.920 --> 00:29:18.220 sacrifice. Yeah. Now I say that we wouldn't tolerate 00:29:18.220 --> 00:29:20.539 that. But these days I'm not as sure as I used 00:29:20.539 --> 00:29:22.480 to be but clearly the founders knew that that 00:29:22.480 --> 00:29:24.799 wouldn't be allowed So there definitely was things 00:29:24.799 --> 00:29:26.539 off limits and they knew that this is kind of 00:29:26.539 --> 00:29:28.519 like the free speech idea They had limits on 00:29:28.519 --> 00:29:31.880 that too Even though you have the right to express 00:29:31.880 --> 00:29:33.819 your opinion about what's going on You can't 00:29:33.819 --> 00:29:35.980 you can't literally say anything that you want 00:29:35.980 --> 00:29:38.319 any time you want to anyone you want There are 00:29:38.319 --> 00:29:39.779 there are things that you'll be held accountable 00:29:39.779 --> 00:29:42.480 for and so when we say freedom of religion people 00:29:42.480 --> 00:29:44.420 think well That just means that no the government 00:29:44.420 --> 00:29:46.339 can't do anything about anyone's religion, but 00:29:46.339 --> 00:29:49.740 that's not what that amendment means Yeah, I'm 00:29:49.740 --> 00:29:52.279 representing the more dense segment of the population 00:29:52.279 --> 00:29:54.799 in this room. And so, the reason I highlighted 00:29:54.799 --> 00:29:56.740 that they forbid the establishment of a state 00:29:56.740 --> 00:30:00.680 church. Church is not a flippant stand -in synonym 00:30:00.680 --> 00:30:03.640 for any religious organization. They didn't have 00:30:03.640 --> 00:30:05.960 in mind that church was a synonym for mosque 00:30:05.960 --> 00:30:11.579 or synagogue or whatever the Satanists gather 00:30:11.579 --> 00:30:16.720 in to mock... you know, and make use of our warped 00:30:16.720 --> 00:30:19.400 understanding of our legal documents to say things 00:30:19.400 --> 00:30:22.180 like abortion is a sacrament for us. Which they 00:30:22.180 --> 00:30:24.960 do, by the way. They say that. There was no category 00:30:24.960 --> 00:30:27.359 for anything other than Christianity. I think 00:30:27.359 --> 00:30:29.440 I mentioned this on a previous episode. I think 00:30:29.440 --> 00:30:31.220 they had come to say, even a guy like Jefferson, 00:30:31.500 --> 00:30:33.599 who we wouldn't call an Orthodox Christian by 00:30:33.599 --> 00:30:36.079 any sense, that Christianity was the pinnacle 00:30:36.079 --> 00:30:39.079 of moral and intellectual, it was the fountainhead 00:30:39.079 --> 00:30:41.589 of those things. And it was the pinnacle of what 00:30:41.589 --> 00:30:45.250 mankind had practiced as a religion. They really 00:30:45.250 --> 00:30:47.710 didn't think we would ever back off of that conclusion. 00:30:47.769 --> 00:30:50.210 They couldn't conceive of it. And so they're 00:30:50.210 --> 00:30:52.150 not thinking that someday someone's going to 00:30:52.150 --> 00:30:53.650 say, well, I have freedom of religion to build 00:30:53.650 --> 00:30:56.809 a mosque here and in Dearborn ring the call to 00:30:56.809 --> 00:30:59.210 prayer in a way that dominates the community. 00:30:59.750 --> 00:31:02.289 They did not think that way. They privileged 00:31:02.289 --> 00:31:04.730 Christianity. And they did privilege Christianity 00:31:04.730 --> 00:31:06.410 and they understood it to be the true religion 00:31:06.410 --> 00:31:07.970 and they believed that the state should promote 00:31:07.970 --> 00:31:13.759 it. The other thing is that in this country and 00:31:13.759 --> 00:31:16.720 in all the states separately, rape is illegal. 00:31:17.319 --> 00:31:19.200 But if you were to ask a Muslim who's serious 00:31:19.200 --> 00:31:21.039 about their faith, they would say, well, it's 00:31:21.039 --> 00:31:23.700 only illegal if it's another believer. If it's 00:31:23.700 --> 00:31:26.200 an infidel, it's fine. They're subhuman. You 00:31:26.200 --> 00:31:28.460 can't live in a society that way with them. And 00:31:28.460 --> 00:31:31.200 that's just one example. When our laws say things 00:31:31.200 --> 00:31:33.119 like, you can't do that, but the Muslims say, 00:31:33.200 --> 00:31:35.259 well, yeah, you can do that. It's part of our 00:31:35.259 --> 00:31:37.519 religion. Somebody's going to have to give, right? 00:31:37.680 --> 00:31:40.799 Well, I mean, there's several instances that 00:31:40.799 --> 00:31:45.380 our morality is quite different. Even lying is 00:31:45.380 --> 00:31:48.400 permitted in certain instances. It's about telling 00:31:48.400 --> 00:31:51.819 the whole truth. You can tell partial truths. 00:31:52.200 --> 00:31:54.619 You can deliberately mislead. Yes. Well, it's 00:31:54.619 --> 00:31:58.119 even virtuous. In the Islamic system, you probably 00:31:58.119 --> 00:31:59.980 know the terminology for it, but it's a virtue 00:31:59.980 --> 00:32:03.720 to deceive non -Muslims. You can't have a society 00:32:03.720 --> 00:32:06.519 that way. You can't do basic functions like exchange 00:32:06.519 --> 00:32:09.019 goods that way. How do you have commerce with 00:32:09.019 --> 00:32:13.519 someone who just has no context for private property 00:32:13.519 --> 00:32:16.920 rights, fraud? Or being honest in the exchange 00:32:16.920 --> 00:32:19.400 so that you know which value is being transferred. 00:32:19.720 --> 00:32:23.079 You can't have a society. That's just anarchy 00:32:23.079 --> 00:32:24.740 at that point. It's just whoever can put one 00:32:24.740 --> 00:32:26.420 over on the other guy. And then you're into the 00:32:26.420 --> 00:32:28.359 Hobbesian state of nature. It's just whoever 00:32:28.359 --> 00:32:31.309 can take. Well, it's very advantageous to them, 00:32:31.349 --> 00:32:33.910 because once it becomes a matter, kind of a Nietzschean 00:32:33.910 --> 00:32:36.589 will to power, they're very happy to be like, 00:32:36.609 --> 00:32:39.569 well, we're very happy to be brutal towards pagans, 00:32:39.630 --> 00:32:41.490 and so we'll put a sword to your children's neck. 00:32:42.569 --> 00:32:46.109 And they have an upper hand, in a sense, when 00:32:46.109 --> 00:32:48.509 dealing with Christians, because we play that 00:32:48.509 --> 00:32:50.809 different set of rules. Yeah, sure. Well, let 00:32:50.809 --> 00:32:52.329 me tell you how the Templars solved that problem. 00:32:53.369 --> 00:32:55.829 They did not believe them. Sure. Problem solved. 00:32:56.500 --> 00:33:00.099 There's a few examples in the new book where 00:33:00.099 --> 00:33:01.980 one of the critiques that the Templars would 00:33:01.980 --> 00:33:04.039 get, because the Templars, if you think about 00:33:04.039 --> 00:33:06.539 the historical understanding of them, if you 00:33:06.539 --> 00:33:09.319 can get around the silliness of the Freemasons 00:33:09.319 --> 00:33:11.960 and the Assassin's Creed video games and stuff 00:33:11.960 --> 00:33:13.799 like that, the Templars had this kind of weird 00:33:13.799 --> 00:33:16.200 mystique about them. And it's because they were 00:33:16.200 --> 00:33:18.640 a religious monk order. They were very strange. 00:33:18.839 --> 00:33:21.359 Even, even according to the day they were celibate 00:33:21.359 --> 00:33:24.700 monks who spent all their time training and practicing 00:33:24.700 --> 00:33:26.759 and building castles and stuff like that. So 00:33:26.759 --> 00:33:28.500 they were, they were not what we think of as 00:33:28.500 --> 00:33:30.160 monks, but they really were. That's kind of the 00:33:30.160 --> 00:33:32.130 way they thought of themselves. But they had 00:33:32.130 --> 00:33:33.809 been in the Crusades and in the Middle East. 00:33:33.869 --> 00:33:35.970 That was their entire reason for being was to 00:33:35.970 --> 00:33:38.109 defend Christians. They were established as an 00:33:38.109 --> 00:33:40.309 order to defend Christians traveling from Joppa 00:33:40.309 --> 00:33:43.289 to Jerusalem, which even after the first crusade 00:33:43.289 --> 00:33:45.690 was like the Badlands. That's where all the Muslims 00:33:45.690 --> 00:33:48.609 were still hanging out that the army hadn't eradicated 00:33:48.609 --> 00:33:51.029 from the area. So it's kind of like road pirates. 00:33:51.190 --> 00:33:53.190 They would pray upon pilgrim groups. And when 00:33:53.190 --> 00:33:55.769 we say pray upon, we don't just mean rob them 00:33:55.769 --> 00:34:00.029 and send them back home. It's murder, rape, slavery. 00:34:02.039 --> 00:34:04.660 And so the Templars were asked to, well, they 00:34:04.660 --> 00:34:06.240 weren't asked. I think they volunteered the first 00:34:06.240 --> 00:34:10.619 couple of guys. They were poor. They were Crusader 00:34:10.619 --> 00:34:12.280 veterans, but they didn't have a lot. They had 00:34:12.280 --> 00:34:14.619 one horse between them. So the original Templar 00:34:14.619 --> 00:34:17.719 logo is a horse with two riders because they 00:34:17.719 --> 00:34:19.440 would alternate. I guess the horse got super 00:34:19.440 --> 00:34:23.199 tired probably, but they eventually got funding 00:34:23.199 --> 00:34:25.599 and help. And so the name, their actual name 00:34:25.599 --> 00:34:28.719 is the Poor Fellow Soldiers of Christ. And they 00:34:28.719 --> 00:34:32.239 were given the temple on the Temple Mount as 00:34:32.239 --> 00:34:35.380 a base. And so that's where the name Templar 00:34:35.380 --> 00:34:38.300 came from. So anyway, years and years they've 00:34:38.300 --> 00:34:39.960 been in the Middle East, years and years they've 00:34:39.960 --> 00:34:42.139 been dealing with Muslims both in combat and 00:34:42.139 --> 00:34:45.559 in diplomacy. And every couple of years, a new 00:34:45.559 --> 00:34:48.380 group of crusaders would show up. Green could 00:34:48.380 --> 00:34:51.039 be, didn't understand Islam, didn't understand 00:34:51.039 --> 00:34:54.480 the different worldviews. And the Muslims would 00:34:54.480 --> 00:34:56.340 try to deceive them in some way. Often it was 00:34:56.340 --> 00:34:58.019 something like, we'll convert to Christianity 00:34:58.019 --> 00:35:03.619 if you do this. They would try to move assassins 00:35:03.619 --> 00:35:06.260 in. They were always trying to lie. And the Muslims 00:35:06.260 --> 00:35:09.139 or the Templars just stopped listening to them. 00:35:09.619 --> 00:35:11.760 There's one story in particular he told about 00:35:11.760 --> 00:35:14.039 when they came once and said, we're going to 00:35:14.039 --> 00:35:17.780 convert if you will agree to not attack us. And 00:35:17.780 --> 00:35:19.840 the Templars weren't present for this meeting, 00:35:19.980 --> 00:35:22.219 but the guy that what they were negotiating with 00:35:22.219 --> 00:35:25.500 said, okay, sounds good. And on their way back, 00:35:25.599 --> 00:35:27.980 the Templars attacked the Muslim envoys like 00:35:27.980 --> 00:35:30.539 caravan and wiped them out. And they got in trouble 00:35:30.539 --> 00:35:32.420 for it. And they were just like, he was lying. 00:35:32.940 --> 00:35:36.119 We know that he was lying. Muslims and then they 00:35:36.119 --> 00:35:38.199 probably had to explain this, this idea that 00:35:38.199 --> 00:35:41.320 it's entirely okay for a Muslim to lie to an 00:35:41.320 --> 00:35:43.920 infidel. And not just, I mean, they had, they 00:35:43.920 --> 00:35:46.260 kind of had two, two. versions of this. There's 00:35:46.260 --> 00:35:48.539 one that's just like outright lying to infidels 00:35:48.539 --> 00:35:52.599 is fine, but even amongst themselves, it's acceptable 00:35:52.599 --> 00:35:54.980 to mislead intentionally. And he gave, he gave 00:35:54.980 --> 00:35:57.880 an example of this too. This is more of a, for 00:35:57.880 --> 00:35:59.980 instance, he said, if you were to walk up to 00:35:59.980 --> 00:36:02.380 a guy who has, you know, a hundred bucks in his 00:36:02.380 --> 00:36:05.139 pocket and ask him for $5 to buy a sandwich, 00:36:05.800 --> 00:36:08.019 he could say, man, I haven't got a penny on me, 00:36:08.500 --> 00:36:10.179 which is technically true because he doesn't 00:36:10.179 --> 00:36:12.760 have a penny, but clearly he has enough money 00:36:12.760 --> 00:36:15.599 to give you to buy a sandwich if he wants, but 00:36:15.599 --> 00:36:18.780 that's morally acceptable to them. So that's 00:36:18.780 --> 00:36:20.639 kind of the other alternate version. It's technically 00:36:20.639 --> 00:36:23.880 true. It's a technical truth, but it's deliberately 00:36:23.880 --> 00:36:26.739 meant to deceive. And, and listener, we're not 00:36:26.739 --> 00:36:29.840 promoting violence. I want to put that out in 00:36:29.840 --> 00:36:32.280 the open. We are not promoting violence against 00:36:32.280 --> 00:36:37.280 Islam or any other people group or whoever, but 00:36:37.280 --> 00:36:41.219 we want to raise awareness of Islam and help 00:36:41.219 --> 00:36:44.539 everyone understand the dangers that history 00:36:44.539 --> 00:36:48.679 shows us about the true nature of what they represent. 00:36:49.039 --> 00:36:51.199 Well, you know, I wouldn't affirm the cliche 00:36:51.199 --> 00:36:53.960 that history repeats itself, but I would affirm 00:36:53.960 --> 00:36:56.820 that history often rhymes. And so one of the 00:36:56.820 --> 00:37:00.199 things that defenders did for me is it showed 00:37:00.199 --> 00:37:01.880 that there's kind of nothing new under the sun 00:37:01.880 --> 00:37:03.599 between the interactions between Christianity 00:37:03.599 --> 00:37:07.199 and Islam. And so I mentioned earlier that often 00:37:07.199 --> 00:37:10.389 these crusaders who are giving everything they 00:37:10.389 --> 00:37:12.889 have, physically, emotionally, spiritually, and 00:37:12.889 --> 00:37:16.090 financially, and are actually making good return 00:37:16.090 --> 00:37:21.429 on that in retaking lands. They're left on an 00:37:21.429 --> 00:37:24.269 island or they're betrayed by their fellow Christians. 00:37:25.210 --> 00:37:28.369 And the way that this works out is they'll either 00:37:28.369 --> 00:37:31.309 do it because, as Terry mentioned, these are 00:37:31.309 --> 00:37:34.929 competing Christian nations. So while the Frank 00:37:34.929 --> 00:37:38.690 is off doing this, his Germanic or English counterparts 00:37:38.690 --> 00:37:41.429 like, oh, I can seize property. So then they 00:37:41.429 --> 00:37:44.050 make him face a two -front war, two different 00:37:44.050 --> 00:37:46.210 enemies. He doesn't want to fight the fellow 00:37:46.210 --> 00:37:49.650 Christians, right? He's here defending Christendom. 00:37:49.929 --> 00:37:52.929 So they put him in an awful position. Or the 00:37:52.929 --> 00:37:57.230 one that's most disgusting is that, particularly 00:37:57.230 --> 00:38:00.590 in the later Crusades, they do the math and they 00:38:00.590 --> 00:38:04.809 say, we think Islam is going to win. Can we betray 00:38:04.809 --> 00:38:08.289 our Christian brother to secure an advantaged 00:38:08.289 --> 00:38:11.110 position for ourselves within the coming Islamic 00:38:11.110 --> 00:38:13.849 order. Can we get some crumbs off the floor of 00:38:13.849 --> 00:38:16.630 the table? Will you leave us alone? Can we maintain 00:38:16.630 --> 00:38:20.090 our holdings? And so, they betray these brothers 00:38:20.090 --> 00:38:23.010 in Christ and the dynamic we're just talking 00:38:23.010 --> 00:38:25.150 about. The Islamic person after everything's 00:38:25.150 --> 00:38:27.269 done and the actual threat he's afraid of is 00:38:27.269 --> 00:38:30.650 off the table is like, haha, just kidding, we're 00:38:30.650 --> 00:38:33.349 taking everything and we're destroying you, right? 00:38:33.489 --> 00:38:37.349 Yeah. And you just read that and it's just crushing. 00:38:39.030 --> 00:38:41.630 In part because the church has kind of been sold 00:38:41.630 --> 00:38:45.230 this propaganda job about Islam, about the Crusaders. 00:38:46.190 --> 00:38:49.230 We just repeat the same problems. Well, we can 00:38:49.230 --> 00:38:52.070 all coexist in a tolerant society, things like 00:38:52.070 --> 00:38:55.389 that. To your point, Jason, that's very convenient 00:38:55.389 --> 00:38:59.530 to the Muslim. It's long -term catastrophic to 00:38:59.530 --> 00:39:03.289 the Christian. Absolutely. Absolutely. And that's 00:39:03.289 --> 00:39:05.250 another thing that I wanted to talk about is 00:39:05.250 --> 00:39:09.030 the tactics that they use. Right now, Christians 00:39:09.030 --> 00:39:11.769 have the high ground, but we see that slowly 00:39:11.769 --> 00:39:15.130 succeeding. I mean, the Midwest is being colonized. 00:39:15.130 --> 00:39:18.309 I mean, New York mayor. All those things, you're 00:39:18.309 --> 00:39:22.050 starting to see that progression. We have the 00:39:22.050 --> 00:39:25.809 authority right now to right the ship. Okay, 00:39:25.969 --> 00:39:29.329 I want to raise awareness of the true nature 00:39:29.329 --> 00:39:33.289 of Islam and how incompatible that it is with 00:39:33.289 --> 00:39:37.110 American ideals, with American moralism, with 00:39:37.110 --> 00:39:40.690 all this to help people see that there is a danger 00:39:40.690 --> 00:39:43.710 that is knocking at our door right now and we 00:39:43.710 --> 00:39:48.070 better pay attention. These books, I highly recommend 00:39:48.070 --> 00:39:51.230 them to everyone just because they will open 00:39:51.369 --> 00:39:55.130 your eyes to truth and reality as it really is. 00:39:55.130 --> 00:39:58.849 And it raises an awareness to the Christian to 00:39:58.849 --> 00:40:02.309 say, hey, if you really want peace, Christianity 00:40:02.309 --> 00:40:05.929 is the only way. And we need to put some things 00:40:05.929 --> 00:40:09.050 in place in our country that will be looked at 00:40:09.050 --> 00:40:13.409 by the Karens out there as harsh. Or dangerous 00:40:13.409 --> 00:40:16.750 Christian nationalism. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's 00:40:16.750 --> 00:40:19.329 just all silliness, but we're going to have to 00:40:19.329 --> 00:40:22.599 do it or we are going to get overtaken. Well, 00:40:22.800 --> 00:40:25.980 you were talking about tactics, and a tactic 00:40:25.980 --> 00:40:28.820 is keep the Christians from fighting. And I don't 00:40:28.820 --> 00:40:30.840 mean that in, like you said, we're not endorsing 00:40:30.840 --> 00:40:32.840 violence, but keep the Christians from resisting. 00:40:33.199 --> 00:40:35.780 Keep the Christians from voting for candidates 00:40:35.780 --> 00:40:38.519 who will privilege the church, who will deport, 00:40:38.840 --> 00:40:42.420 who will do a number of other things that can 00:40:42.420 --> 00:40:46.989 be done to defend our shores from invasion. call 00:40:46.989 --> 00:40:50.730 them Christian nationalists and say that this 00:40:50.730 --> 00:40:54.150 is not a gospel issue, those kinds of things. 00:40:55.010 --> 00:40:59.250 They've been so misled and so blinded to the 00:40:59.250 --> 00:41:01.989 truth of these tactics that you're speaking of. 00:41:02.650 --> 00:41:05.429 I really wish there was a way that we could open 00:41:05.429 --> 00:41:08.230 folks' eyes to those tactics. Like I said, they 00:41:08.230 --> 00:41:11.809 use a lot of Marxist tactics, communistic tactics. 00:41:12.210 --> 00:41:15.420 They partner with these like BLM. Sure. That's 00:41:15.420 --> 00:41:17.980 all. I mean, that's just textbook tactics that 00:41:17.980 --> 00:41:22.000 they use. I really want to challenge the listeners 00:41:22.000 --> 00:41:26.679 with these ideals and raise these questions of 00:41:26.679 --> 00:41:30.599 what Islam truly is and is it compatible at all 00:41:30.599 --> 00:41:34.420 with American ideals? Well, so that's another 00:41:34.420 --> 00:41:38.420 benefit of reading Ibrahim. Listener, it's bracing, 00:41:38.880 --> 00:41:43.460 it's disgusting, but what he documents is what 00:41:43.460 --> 00:41:47.840 it looks like. When is long gains total control. 00:41:48.800 --> 00:41:51.219 And so another thing that Islam is very committed 00:41:51.219 --> 00:41:55.360 to, and in a sense is very good at is humiliating 00:41:55.360 --> 00:41:58.679 the populations under their control. And so some 00:41:58.679 --> 00:42:02.239 of this is like a poll tax that you just for 00:42:02.239 --> 00:42:04.780 living in their lands and practicing Christianity, 00:42:04.780 --> 00:42:07.900 you have to pay this exorbitant tax, right? That's 00:42:07.900 --> 00:42:11.099 the mildest version of it. What they most often 00:42:11.099 --> 00:42:14.639 did when they secured. ground held by Christians 00:42:14.639 --> 00:42:19.219 is they would take nuns and children, I don't 00:42:19.219 --> 00:42:22.219 want to be graphic on the podcast, but defile 00:42:22.219 --> 00:42:26.679 them on top of religious monuments to Christianity. 00:42:27.099 --> 00:42:31.380 Often defile them until the subject of the defilement 00:42:31.380 --> 00:42:35.800 is dead, keeping young boys in perpetual slavery 00:42:35.800 --> 00:42:39.460 of a particular sort, demanding that the populations, 00:42:39.599 --> 00:42:41.769 the Christians under their control if you've 00:42:41.769 --> 00:42:44.690 ever heard the term Janissaries, okay, you have 00:42:44.690 --> 00:42:47.130 to give us a certain percentage or one whole 00:42:47.130 --> 00:42:49.570 year's worth of the sons that you have produced 00:42:49.570 --> 00:42:52.670 from your family lines. And they're either turned 00:42:52.670 --> 00:42:57.489 into military forces on behalf of Islam or slaves 00:42:57.489 --> 00:42:59.909 of a particular kind. Or both. On two of the 00:42:59.909 --> 00:43:04.630 crusaders that are mentioned, notoriously, Vlad 00:43:04.630 --> 00:43:10.179 Dracula was withheld from Islam, which is one 00:43:10.179 --> 00:43:12.019 of the things that kind of sparked the conflict 00:43:12.019 --> 00:43:14.539 because his brother was not. This is one of the 00:43:14.539 --> 00:43:16.559 places where - When you say withheld, so Vlad 00:43:16.559 --> 00:43:20.139 resisted their - Yeah, Vlad Dracul, the father, 00:43:21.239 --> 00:43:24.480 he had two sons, one son he sent to be a Janissary, 00:43:25.019 --> 00:43:31.159 and he was used by a Turk king. and was converted 00:43:31.159 --> 00:43:33.639 and became an enemy of his brother later in life. 00:43:33.719 --> 00:43:36.719 The other one was withheld and was not sent, 00:43:36.920 --> 00:43:40.800 which caused some issues for him. And Vlad, now 00:43:40.800 --> 00:43:43.980 known as Vlad the Impaler or Vlad Dracula, grew 00:43:43.980 --> 00:43:45.940 up to be one of the greatest of the defensive 00:43:45.940 --> 00:43:49.260 crusaders in history. And he's one who's been 00:43:49.260 --> 00:43:51.360 much maligned thanks to a fiction book which 00:43:51.360 --> 00:43:53.239 was written, I don't think with that intention, 00:43:53.340 --> 00:43:55.460 but everybody now thinks of him as a monster. 00:43:56.380 --> 00:43:58.880 he wasn't a vampire, but there's some interesting 00:43:58.880 --> 00:44:00.380 things about where some of those myths may have 00:44:00.380 --> 00:44:02.219 come from. If you read the story, it's pretty 00:44:02.219 --> 00:44:04.500 interesting. Yeah. The Defenders of the West, 00:44:04.619 --> 00:44:07.079 the second book has the chapter on him and that 00:44:07.079 --> 00:44:10.039 chapter in sort of undoing the historical revisionism 00:44:10.039 --> 00:44:13.840 is, and I would also say, Abraham's essays at 00:44:13.840 --> 00:44:16.199 the beginning, they're worth the cost of the 00:44:16.199 --> 00:44:18.619 book. I mean, you should pay whatever the cost 00:44:18.619 --> 00:44:21.179 is just to read those two sections. To come back 00:44:21.179 --> 00:44:22.900 to like, what does it look like when Muslims 00:44:22.900 --> 00:44:26.760 established dominance? Well, We have this opportunity 00:44:26.760 --> 00:44:30.219 to say, oh no, but they're much more Westernized. 00:44:30.260 --> 00:44:32.099 They're much more Christianized. Christianity's 00:44:32.099 --> 00:44:34.559 had an impact on them. There's more tolerant 00:44:34.559 --> 00:44:36.699 Muslims. Right. All these narratives you've heard. 00:44:37.500 --> 00:44:40.159 Talk to your neighbor who served in one of the 00:44:40.159 --> 00:44:42.679 wars in the desert for the last couple decades. 00:44:43.280 --> 00:44:45.900 I was listening to a podcast with a soldier who 00:44:45.900 --> 00:44:48.760 served overseas. When we're in Afghanistan and 00:44:48.760 --> 00:44:50.960 Iraq and those things, we made ally partnerships 00:44:50.960 --> 00:44:53.280 with certain factions of Muslims versus others 00:44:53.280 --> 00:44:55.400 that we were sort of you know, fighting more 00:44:55.400 --> 00:44:58.880 directly. And this guy was testifying that like 00:44:58.880 --> 00:45:01.960 when he would go visit the guard shack of the 00:45:01.960 --> 00:45:04.039 group that he was, you know, working as an ally 00:45:04.039 --> 00:45:06.260 with against these other factions, there would 00:45:06.260 --> 00:45:08.960 be a young man kept in the guard shack for certain 00:45:08.960 --> 00:45:12.099 kinds of entertainments. And it was just accepted. 00:45:12.679 --> 00:45:15.900 And U .S. policy was we can't really say anything 00:45:15.900 --> 00:45:17.780 about it. You just kind of got to look the other 00:45:17.780 --> 00:45:21.239 way. So if you think that like Islam has progressed 00:45:21.239 --> 00:45:24.909 beyond what we're talking about, friend, It's 00:45:24.909 --> 00:45:27.230 pure fantasy. Well, it's it's kind of central 00:45:27.230 --> 00:45:29.869 Yeah, if you read their books if you read their 00:45:29.869 --> 00:45:33.329 their texts that this is this stuff is permitted 00:45:33.329 --> 00:45:36.909 and it's done and You were you mentioned BLM 00:45:36.909 --> 00:45:38.710 and some of the tactics and one of the interesting 00:45:38.710 --> 00:45:40.530 things is that we know that the modern American 00:45:40.530 --> 00:45:43.949 left likes Islam They get along they think they 00:45:43.949 --> 00:45:45.829 get along well with them and a lot of people 00:45:45.829 --> 00:45:48.469 on the right say well They just they hate gays 00:45:48.469 --> 00:45:50.030 and they're gonna they would they would kill 00:45:50.030 --> 00:45:52.059 you if they could which is probably true, they 00:45:52.059 --> 00:45:54.559 would, but they don't really hate gays. They 00:45:54.559 --> 00:45:57.440 don't think of homosexual activity the same way 00:45:57.440 --> 00:45:59.619 that Americans do because they haven't, I don't 00:45:59.619 --> 00:46:02.960 think adopted the whole framework of you are 00:46:02.960 --> 00:46:04.760 gay or you are not gay. Like they don't really 00:46:04.760 --> 00:46:07.440 buy into that. But if you're an infidel, you're 00:46:07.440 --> 00:46:10.320 basically just a chunk of meat. Like they don't 00:46:10.320 --> 00:46:13.519 think of you as a human. So that kind of defilement 00:46:13.519 --> 00:46:16.139 is just not, they just don't think of it in the 00:46:16.139 --> 00:46:18.980 same way that we would. Yeah. Now, you know, 00:46:19.059 --> 00:46:21.440 like what happens in the streets of San Francisco, 00:46:22.199 --> 00:46:24.699 they would probably put that to the sword. It's 00:46:24.699 --> 00:46:28.380 a much more sort of in the confines of your own 00:46:28.380 --> 00:46:30.739 walls that you do what you do with the young 00:46:30.739 --> 00:46:34.840 men. But like Terry's saying, it's not, it's 00:46:34.840 --> 00:46:37.420 not antithetical in the way we would assume as 00:46:37.420 --> 00:46:41.179 Christians. Islam is not based. They operate 00:46:41.179 --> 00:46:44.679 in a semi -peaceful manner until they have a 00:46:44.679 --> 00:46:49.869 majority. That's what I've deduced over studying 00:46:49.869 --> 00:46:52.469 these books and things. That is where we're heading. 00:46:52.809 --> 00:46:55.530 Once they have an established majority, you will 00:46:55.530 --> 00:46:58.590 see their tactics change. Well, and this is even, 00:46:58.590 --> 00:47:01.110 you know, if, if you're dependent upon legacy 00:47:01.110 --> 00:47:02.849 and corporate media for this, you're never going 00:47:02.849 --> 00:47:06.210 to see it. But if you'll even dip your toes into 00:47:06.210 --> 00:47:10.159 alternative media, YouTube. Twitter. Well, Ibrahim's 00:47:10.159 --> 00:47:12.199 blog too. Yeah, Ibrahim's blog. If you'll just 00:47:12.199 --> 00:47:14.760 do anything outside of the tight confines of 00:47:14.760 --> 00:47:18.719 CNN, you're seeing in Dearborn, the mullahs have 00:47:18.719 --> 00:47:21.460 already reached a level of comfort that they're 00:47:21.460 --> 00:47:24.480 being very open about these things. That in Dearborn, 00:47:24.579 --> 00:47:26.980 they're saying, we are going to take this over. 00:47:27.179 --> 00:47:30.139 They're too weak to resist us. And that's late 00:47:30.139 --> 00:47:32.980 stage. They feel so confident that they are already 00:47:32.980 --> 00:47:34.980 showing we no longer feel like the deceptive 00:47:34.980 --> 00:47:37.380 tactic is needful. Right. Another positive I 00:47:37.380 --> 00:47:40.840 would say about Ibrahim, his essays. So I praised 00:47:40.840 --> 00:47:44.000 him earlier because the proper work of the books 00:47:44.000 --> 00:47:46.920 is just primary source history. And so I say 00:47:46.920 --> 00:47:50.440 it wasn't editorialized, but he does do editorial 00:47:50.440 --> 00:47:53.320 work in the introductory essays to his book. 00:47:53.619 --> 00:47:55.480 And this harkens back to something Terry mentioned 00:47:55.480 --> 00:47:58.719 earlier. By looking at the crusaders, he is very 00:47:58.719 --> 00:48:02.679 critical helpfully of what we would call feminized 00:48:02.679 --> 00:48:05.869 modern Christianity. that has this histamine 00:48:05.869 --> 00:48:08.269 reaction against masculine energy and masculine 00:48:08.269 --> 00:48:13.949 action. And so, Ibrahim, in those essays, he 00:48:13.949 --> 00:48:17.630 talks as a Christian in a way that is polar opposite, 00:48:17.889 --> 00:48:21.190 180 degrees away, antithetical from the kind 00:48:21.190 --> 00:48:23.789 of rhetoric about manhood and faithful Christian 00:48:23.789 --> 00:48:26.489 living that has dominated evangelicalism for 00:48:26.489 --> 00:48:30.820 my adult lives. He talks positively. about masculine 00:48:30.820 --> 00:48:33.619 pursuits of the glory of Christ and sacrificing 00:48:33.619 --> 00:48:36.019 on behalf of Christ, not just to have the richest 00:48:36.019 --> 00:48:37.920 quiet time. And I don't want to throw off on 00:48:37.920 --> 00:48:39.599 having a rich quiet time. That's a good thing 00:48:39.599 --> 00:48:42.659 to pursue, but that's like the sum total of what 00:48:42.659 --> 00:48:45.980 men can attain to in modern evangelicalism. And 00:48:45.980 --> 00:48:50.300 Ibrahim points out how we look so bizarre and 00:48:50.300 --> 00:48:54.179 even maybe obscene compared against the dominant 00:48:54.179 --> 00:48:57.679 spirituality of Christianity globally and throughout 00:48:57.679 --> 00:49:01.579 history. We are these really weird believers 00:49:01.579 --> 00:49:04.380 in this age if you have any sense of historical 00:49:04.380 --> 00:49:06.500 perspective And so that's one of the things I 00:49:06.500 --> 00:49:09.699 appreciate about his essays that actually Getting 00:49:09.699 --> 00:49:13.440 up to stuff positively for the Lord's glory is 00:49:13.440 --> 00:49:15.480 something that should be recovered Yeah, yeah, 00:49:15.480 --> 00:49:17.340 I can remember when the defenders of the West 00:49:17.340 --> 00:49:19.440 came out around that time. I had an article for 00:49:19.440 --> 00:49:21.989 American Reformer that was about, it was basically 00:49:21.989 --> 00:49:24.769 written to explain why I thought Christian men 00:49:24.769 --> 00:49:27.070 should be lifting weights, like why they should 00:49:27.070 --> 00:49:29.530 pursue physical strength. It was around that 00:49:29.530 --> 00:49:31.349 time that there was a bit of a Twitter controversy 00:49:31.349 --> 00:49:34.789 about that or X or whatever. And then it was 00:49:34.789 --> 00:49:38.110 fascinating to watch the argument unfold because 00:49:38.110 --> 00:49:39.949 there was, it was what you were saying. It was 00:49:39.949 --> 00:49:42.289 essentially pietism versus, you know, people 00:49:42.289 --> 00:49:44.150 who would like this book basically. And it was 00:49:44.150 --> 00:49:46.159 like, this is a waste of time. Christian men 00:49:46.159 --> 00:49:47.739 don't and it was always guys that you could tell 00:49:47.739 --> 00:49:49.500 like had never picked up anything heavier than 00:49:49.500 --> 00:49:51.500 a number two pencil. You know, they may have 00:49:51.500 --> 00:49:53.260 felt bad about it or whatever. And you can read 00:49:53.260 --> 00:49:55.480 the article. It's on American reformer. I would 00:49:55.480 --> 00:49:57.840 not say that it's a thing that makes you more 00:49:57.840 --> 00:50:00.000 holy. Although I do think that that having the 00:50:00.000 --> 00:50:02.099 discipline to pursue physical strength and power 00:50:02.099 --> 00:50:05.260 is a useful tool and obtaining the discipline 00:50:05.260 --> 00:50:07.380 needed to pursue holiness. Well, that's kind 00:50:07.380 --> 00:50:09.360 of the way I would see it. Furthermore, it makes 00:50:09.360 --> 00:50:12.000 you more resistant to injury, makes you live 00:50:12.000 --> 00:50:14.119 longer, puts your health in just a better state 00:50:14.119 --> 00:50:16.440 in general. And so those things are things that 00:50:16.440 --> 00:50:20.340 we can do and the church has just not honored 00:50:20.340 --> 00:50:23.579 that in my lifetime. This has been kind of contemporary 00:50:23.579 --> 00:50:26.840 on social media, but I'll give a very specific 00:50:26.840 --> 00:50:30.619 example. So, I love John Piper. I have benefited 00:50:30.619 --> 00:50:33.599 tremendously from John Piper's work in the kind 00:50:33.599 --> 00:50:36.219 of devotional and theological sense. John Piper 00:50:36.219 --> 00:50:39.900 also is famous for saying things like, if someone 00:50:39.900 --> 00:50:43.280 broke into my house and was attacking my family, 00:50:43.400 --> 00:50:47.800 I would not defend my family because that person, 00:50:48.199 --> 00:50:50.639 if I killed them, they may be a Christian. And 00:50:50.639 --> 00:50:53.579 I know my family are believers. And so... Or 00:50:53.579 --> 00:50:55.820 they may not be a Christian. And the attacker 00:50:55.820 --> 00:50:57.840 may not be. And so, I may send him to hell and 00:50:57.840 --> 00:51:00.400 my family will have a chance. Right? And so, 00:51:00.500 --> 00:51:04.539 I love John Piper when he's talking about theology 00:51:04.539 --> 00:51:09.269 proper, but... I mean, I just can't stress enough 00:51:09.269 --> 00:51:12.530 how weird evangelicalism in my adult age is. 00:51:12.530 --> 00:51:15.869 Because I think normal people see a man saying 00:51:15.869 --> 00:51:18.949 that and they have this visceral, what are you 00:51:18.949 --> 00:51:24.349 talking about, dude? Right? I do. But evangelicalism 00:51:24.349 --> 00:51:27.869 has cultivated this bubble where somebody says 00:51:27.869 --> 00:51:29.849 something like that and doesn't immediately lose 00:51:29.849 --> 00:51:32.329 all credibility. Well, they say, oh, that's so 00:51:32.329 --> 00:51:35.210 holy. Yeah. It's seen as spiritual attainment. 00:51:36.440 --> 00:51:41.280 I think that's sinful. Not everybody has to agree 00:51:41.280 --> 00:51:44.320 with that. But when I see a verse that says that 00:51:44.320 --> 00:51:45.980 a guy who doesn't take care of his family is 00:51:45.980 --> 00:51:49.019 worse than an unbeliever, I think that includes 00:51:49.019 --> 00:51:51.239 protecting them, particularly if you're the man 00:51:51.239 --> 00:51:54.179 of the house. Absolutely. But that has been stripped 00:51:54.179 --> 00:51:57.000 out of the dominant evangelicalism of my day. 00:51:58.119 --> 00:52:00.440 And this is what we're talking about, that Abraham 00:52:00.440 --> 00:52:02.929 is so refreshing. Cause he just shows you all 00:52:02.929 --> 00:52:04.269 these Christians. Abraham, by the way, is super 00:52:04.269 --> 00:52:06.369 jacked if he didn't know that. Yeah, former powerlifter, 00:52:06.449 --> 00:52:09.690 right? Yeah, I think so. So he knows, you know, 00:52:10.110 --> 00:52:14.889 this is a guy who's experienced, I mean, he probably 00:52:14.889 --> 00:52:16.389 has been through kind of what we're discussing. 00:52:16.510 --> 00:52:18.510 Like I look around and I see a bunch of pencilnecks 00:52:18.510 --> 00:52:20.809 or guys that are just, you know, grossly overweight 00:52:20.809 --> 00:52:23.510 and they're our spiritual leaders and supposed 00:52:23.510 --> 00:52:26.369 to be our luminaries, you know, for all the benefit 00:52:26.369 --> 00:52:28.510 John Piper gave us. You look at that guy and 00:52:28.510 --> 00:52:30.110 you're like, he's not super fit. Now he's an 00:52:30.110 --> 00:52:33.449 older guy. Now you compare that to somebody like 00:52:33.449 --> 00:52:35.070 John MacArthur, right? Who was like a division 00:52:35.070 --> 00:52:37.309 one college athlete and was in really good shape 00:52:37.309 --> 00:52:39.730 right up until the time that he had to go. We 00:52:39.730 --> 00:52:42.550 can have discussion about providence of God and 00:52:42.550 --> 00:52:45.110 the nature of when we die, but MacArthur took 00:52:45.110 --> 00:52:46.750 care of himself physically and he allowed him 00:52:46.750 --> 00:52:50.090 to have a very long ministry, a very fruitful 00:52:50.090 --> 00:52:53.090 ministry. He was with it. up until, you know, 00:52:53.090 --> 00:52:55.150 he's preaching, like not long before he had to 00:52:55.150 --> 00:52:57.869 kind of go down and that was that. And I'm thinking, 00:52:58.030 --> 00:52:59.789 Ibrahim's lifting weights, he's a Christian, 00:52:59.789 --> 00:53:01.510 he's looking around going like, you know, who 00:53:01.510 --> 00:53:04.409 are my heroes? Who can I look up to that has 00:53:04.409 --> 00:53:07.309 done things that I respect? And we have to make 00:53:07.309 --> 00:53:08.969 sure that the things we respect are in alignment 00:53:08.969 --> 00:53:10.730 with what the scripture teaches. But you look 00:53:10.730 --> 00:53:12.949 at the crusaders and if you're a guy who thinks, 00:53:13.210 --> 00:53:15.190 you know, I like guns and I like lifting weights 00:53:15.190 --> 00:53:17.449 and I like eating red meat. You may not be as 00:53:17.449 --> 00:53:19.530 into Jonathan Edwards, and Jonathan Edwards could 00:53:19.530 --> 00:53:20.909 have been the manliest guy ever. I don't really 00:53:20.909 --> 00:53:23.409 know him that well. But when I look at a guy 00:53:23.409 --> 00:53:25.429 who could chop a camel's head off in one stroke, 00:53:25.590 --> 00:53:27.989 I'm impressed by that. I respect that. And then 00:53:27.989 --> 00:53:29.909 I find out that this guy's a true believer, a 00:53:29.909 --> 00:53:32.230 man who laid his life on the line, a man who, 00:53:32.230 --> 00:53:34.789 when they won the crusade, they tried to make 00:53:34.789 --> 00:53:37.949 him King of Jerusalem. And he said, I will not 00:53:37.949 --> 00:53:40.349 wear a crown of gold where my savior wore a crown 00:53:40.349 --> 00:53:43.429 of thorns. And so he took the title of Lord Protector 00:53:43.429 --> 00:53:46.280 of Jerusalem. Would follow that man into battle 00:53:46.280 --> 00:53:48.719 absolutely if he was in here. Yeah, like I said, 00:53:48.840 --> 00:53:50.539 we're going to Dearborn now again. We're not 00:53:50.539 --> 00:53:53.559 advocating that but You know you listen to people 00:53:53.559 --> 00:53:56.480 like that This is a guy who's lived it and I 00:53:56.480 --> 00:53:58.039 think I can't help but think Ibrahim's looking 00:53:58.039 --> 00:54:01.219 around not at a loss for who a hero can be and 00:54:01.219 --> 00:54:03.360 he turns to history and he finds these guys and 00:54:03.360 --> 00:54:06.119 it just Captures his imagination and did mine. 00:54:06.480 --> 00:54:08.860 Yeah. Well, I'll just bolster that point Terry. 00:54:08.960 --> 00:54:12.059 So he's Coptic, right? And Coptic is sort of 00:54:12.059 --> 00:54:14.320 in fellowship with the East under what we would 00:54:14.320 --> 00:54:17.099 call Eastern Orthodoxy. I don't think anybody 00:54:17.099 --> 00:54:19.139 who knows me thinks I'm some kind of doctrinal 00:54:19.139 --> 00:54:22.219 squish. I draw pretty tight lines doctrinally. 00:54:23.119 --> 00:54:26.599 But the Coptics, again, is family history. It's 00:54:26.599 --> 00:54:29.739 part of their story to be on the front line of 00:54:29.739 --> 00:54:32.500 interactions with Islam. So if you can think, 00:54:32.519 --> 00:54:34.619 you know, I'm assuming because we're Southerners 00:54:34.619 --> 00:54:37.559 in the room, there's a real sense, at least in 00:54:37.559 --> 00:54:41.059 my circles, that the Civil War isn't really history, 00:54:41.900 --> 00:54:44.440 that it still has a presence in our lives and 00:54:44.440 --> 00:54:46.840 our culture for Southerners. Maybe you don't 00:54:46.840 --> 00:54:48.619 relate to that listener, but I'm just telling 00:54:48.619 --> 00:54:52.760 you, that's part of my sense of myself in history. 00:54:53.400 --> 00:54:55.920 Well, for the Copts, interaction with Islam is 00:54:55.920 --> 00:54:58.360 still sort of that deal. And so, while I mean, 00:54:58.460 --> 00:55:02.159 they're still there dealing with it. Right. So, 00:55:02.159 --> 00:55:04.960 doctrinally, I've got some real significant criticisms 00:55:04.960 --> 00:55:08.039 of Coptic Christianity. But a few years ago, 00:55:08.039 --> 00:55:10.860 there was a video that went viral. There were, 00:55:10.860 --> 00:55:13.440 I think, seven Coptic Christians, and I think 00:55:13.440 --> 00:55:15.780 they were in orange jumpsuits. They'd been kidnapped 00:55:15.780 --> 00:55:18.460 by militant Islamists, or that's probably redundant. 00:55:18.559 --> 00:55:20.559 They'd been kidnapped by some of their neighbors, 00:55:21.079 --> 00:55:23.000 and they were on a beach, and they were commanded 00:55:23.000 --> 00:55:25.980 to renounce Christ. You know, to a man, they 00:55:25.980 --> 00:55:28.179 basically died saying, Jesus Christ is Lord, 00:55:28.179 --> 00:55:30.780 and they were executed on the beach. If that 00:55:30.780 --> 00:55:33.539 kind of faith, we don't have as evangelicals 00:55:33.539 --> 00:55:35.880 a vision for conquering Christianity. But we 00:55:35.880 --> 00:55:38.099 do have a vision of martyrdom Christianity that 00:55:38.099 --> 00:55:40.960 we still see as glorious. These are the Coptic 00:55:40.960 --> 00:55:42.920 Christians. This is the tradition that he's in. 00:55:43.519 --> 00:55:46.239 And so, it's not just a, I want to be a Chad 00:55:46.239 --> 00:55:49.239 who can arm wrestle everybody into submission. 00:55:49.559 --> 00:55:51.699 But these are people who, if they have the opportunity 00:55:51.699 --> 00:55:54.539 to conquer and establish good things for Christianity, 00:55:54.559 --> 00:55:56.820 they do that. If they're in a position where 00:55:56.820 --> 00:56:00.219 they can't and they're being pressed to renounce 00:56:00.219 --> 00:56:02.940 Christ or die, they choose death. I don't know 00:56:02.940 --> 00:56:05.460 how you can't gravitate to that kind of faith. 00:56:06.099 --> 00:56:07.800 And I think it speaks incredibly well of their 00:56:07.800 --> 00:56:10.739 faith. Again, where I would say on paper, doctrinally, 00:56:10.820 --> 00:56:13.039 I think there are real questions with your understanding 00:56:13.039 --> 00:56:17.280 of the faith. But if you die in the face of a 00:56:17.280 --> 00:56:18.940 sword that's going to, you know, end your life 00:56:18.940 --> 00:56:21.219 right there, and the last thing you say on earth 00:56:21.219 --> 00:56:24.059 is, Jesus Christ is Lord, I think the Spirit 00:56:24.059 --> 00:56:25.579 of God is present there. And I'm going to give 00:56:25.579 --> 00:56:27.360 you the benefit of the doubt. And that's the 00:56:27.360 --> 00:56:29.340 kind of faith that I hope to cultivate in myself 00:56:29.340 --> 00:56:31.500 and among my people. Abraham's a really great 00:56:31.500 --> 00:56:33.519 gateway. No, I'm not trying to tell you to become 00:56:33.519 --> 00:56:35.099 Coptic. I'm not trying to tell you to become 00:56:35.099 --> 00:56:37.179 Easter Orthodox. I would want the Coptics to 00:56:37.179 --> 00:56:39.059 all be Baptist if I could make... Yes, exactly. 00:56:39.500 --> 00:56:40.920 And they would be spiritually healthier if they 00:56:40.920 --> 00:56:44.460 were. But nonetheless, this is a vision of Christianity 00:56:44.460 --> 00:56:47.340 that's historic, global, and gets down to the 00:56:47.340 --> 00:56:49.659 roots of who the person is. As an evangelical, 00:56:49.739 --> 00:56:51.380 you could be like, yeah, I can see why that would 00:56:51.380 --> 00:56:54.179 be helpful to me. Yeah. So the overall narrative 00:56:54.179 --> 00:56:56.800 of the Crusades has been told to us wrong, and 00:56:56.800 --> 00:56:59.460 it was fought in defense of Christian pilgrims. 00:56:59.639 --> 00:57:01.940 and later Crusades were fought in defense of 00:57:01.940 --> 00:57:04.260 Christian lands that were being actively invaded. 00:57:04.980 --> 00:57:08.019 So once Islam holds the Holy Land, they use it 00:57:08.019 --> 00:57:10.440 as a launching base into other Christian lands. 00:57:10.440 --> 00:57:14.639 They move into Europe and then the Spaniards 00:57:14.639 --> 00:57:18.159 have to long, prolonged, drawn out, reconquista 00:57:18.159 --> 00:57:21.420 as it's known. where they were whittled down 00:57:21.420 --> 00:57:23.780 to just a handful of mountain peaks, basically, 00:57:23.840 --> 00:57:27.340 and they came back and conquered the Iberian 00:57:27.340 --> 00:57:30.699 Peninsula and sent the Muslims back to North 00:57:30.699 --> 00:57:33.820 Africa. If you took one thing away from this 00:57:33.820 --> 00:57:35.699 version of the Crusades, it's that the Christians 00:57:35.699 --> 00:57:37.980 were fighting to protect themselves and their 00:57:37.980 --> 00:57:40.179 fellow Christians from Muslim aggression, which 00:57:40.179 --> 00:57:42.840 was rampant and unchecked otherwise. Yeah. I 00:57:42.840 --> 00:57:45.820 just think today you would get so much kickback 00:57:45.820 --> 00:57:48.889 if I'm imagining the the Twitter replies and 00:57:48.889 --> 00:57:51.650 things, but they're most, there are mostly peaceful 00:57:51.650 --> 00:57:54.630 people. Right. Sure. Just like the, uh, George 00:57:54.630 --> 00:57:56.809 Floyd summer of love was mostly peaceful protests, 00:57:57.389 --> 00:58:00.469 same, same energy. Yeah. And I just, I just have 00:58:00.469 --> 00:58:02.889 to challenge that. I just have to challenge that. 00:58:02.969 --> 00:58:06.050 Well, historically they've been peaceful very 00:58:06.050 --> 00:58:09.159 seldom. Strategically. Yeah, and in strategic 00:58:09.159 --> 00:58:11.619 times. Yeah, you know, treaties that were struck 00:58:11.619 --> 00:58:13.980 with them during the Crusades were always temporary. 00:58:14.199 --> 00:58:16.480 The Crusaders knew that. I mean, this is not 00:58:16.480 --> 00:58:18.780 just Islam either, like pagan peoples do this. 00:58:19.409 --> 00:58:21.670 I've been reading about John Sevier's history. 00:58:22.050 --> 00:58:24.690 Sevier was a very seasoned Indian fighter in 00:58:24.690 --> 00:58:27.469 Tennessee back when it was still prior to its 00:58:27.469 --> 00:58:29.349 statehood even. And there's an anecdote from 00:58:29.349 --> 00:58:31.429 that where he had some Cherokee approach him 00:58:31.429 --> 00:58:33.429 up with a treaty that they had been in conflict 00:58:33.429 --> 00:58:35.670 with. And he knew immediately that the fact that 00:58:35.670 --> 00:58:37.969 they wanted him to sign a treaty was just because 00:58:37.969 --> 00:58:39.849 they wanted to buy time so that they could mount 00:58:39.849 --> 00:58:41.989 a larger attack. And his experience with them 00:58:41.989 --> 00:58:44.190 taught him they will not honor this treaty. They're 00:58:44.190 --> 00:58:47.190 just going to buy time. So he went ahead and 00:58:47.190 --> 00:58:49.360 signed it. And he didn't violate it, but he built 00:58:49.360 --> 00:58:51.960 up his forces and strengthened his forts in the 00:58:51.960 --> 00:58:54.699 meantime, knowing that the hammer was going to 00:58:54.699 --> 00:58:56.519 fall somewhere because they needed some time 00:58:56.519 --> 00:58:58.480 to gather up more warriors to come at him. And 00:58:58.480 --> 00:59:01.739 he was right. This is a thing that non -believers 00:59:01.739 --> 00:59:05.940 are okay with, is just lying to everyone so that 00:59:05.940 --> 00:59:09.199 they can win a strategic. Advantage. So what 00:59:09.199 --> 00:59:13.300 can we do as Christians to help folks understand 00:59:13.300 --> 00:59:16.659 and even what can we implement in our communities 00:59:16.659 --> 00:59:20.079 or even in our government to further this action? 00:59:20.340 --> 00:59:22.239 The first thing that I would take as a lesson 00:59:22.239 --> 00:59:26.260 from the crusaders is that the best defense is 00:59:26.260 --> 00:59:28.940 a good offense. So conservatives historically 00:59:28.940 --> 00:59:32.219 are very retreatist in the sense that we want 00:59:32.219 --> 00:59:35.289 to build families. We want to build livelihoods. 00:59:35.849 --> 00:59:39.130 We want to be about the good business of the 00:59:39.130 --> 00:59:41.230 language of scripture is a quiet and peaceful 00:59:41.230 --> 00:59:44.110 life. What that means is we want to be left alone 00:59:44.110 --> 00:59:47.369 and we basically fight only for the goal of being 00:59:47.369 --> 00:59:49.889 left alone. But there's a maxim that's true. 00:59:50.110 --> 00:59:52.789 The side that wants to win is always going to 00:59:52.789 --> 00:59:55.039 beat the team that wants to be left alone. And 00:59:55.039 --> 00:59:57.460 so the crusaders tell you that you cannot take 00:59:57.460 --> 01:00:00.179 a purely defensive posture. And I want to add 01:00:00.179 --> 01:00:02.300 the qualification we've provided a thousand times. 01:00:02.559 --> 01:00:05.599 Nobody here is calling for picking up arms. What 01:00:05.599 --> 01:00:07.719 we're calling for is something like common sense 01:00:07.719 --> 01:00:11.579 legislation that says this is allowed and this 01:00:11.579 --> 01:00:15.480 is not. And if there is any kind of physical 01:00:15.480 --> 01:00:19.460 conflict there, it's exercised justly under the 01:00:19.460 --> 01:00:21.880 auspices of the just government, the rightly 01:00:21.880 --> 01:00:23.699 established government. that has authority in 01:00:23.699 --> 01:00:26.159 the region who is given the sword for just such 01:00:26.159 --> 01:00:28.739 a restraining of evil, right? To the general 01:00:28.739 --> 01:00:33.480 point, retreatism is defeatism and Christianity 01:00:33.480 --> 01:00:36.800 has to recover a spirit of holy aggression. I 01:00:36.800 --> 01:00:40.380 think we have to identify the threat and I think 01:00:40.380 --> 01:00:43.460 Islam is a threat of sorts. I'm not saying it's 01:00:43.460 --> 01:00:47.840 a physical threat right now. But we need to realize 01:00:47.840 --> 01:00:51.199 the realistic potential of what it will grow 01:00:51.199 --> 01:00:55.679 into. and to stave that off. So it may be something 01:00:55.679 --> 01:00:57.719 that a government needs to take a new stance 01:00:57.719 --> 01:01:01.139 and consider it a type of terrorism. Sure. Right. 01:01:01.340 --> 01:01:04.059 I mean, there's other versions of this too. So 01:01:04.059 --> 01:01:07.840 like militant Hinduism, the kind that's often 01:01:07.840 --> 01:01:10.800 sort of replicating the horrors of Islam or in 01:01:10.800 --> 01:01:12.920 conflict with Islam because it's two similar 01:01:12.920 --> 01:01:15.260 forces fighting. They're wrecking statues in 01:01:15.260 --> 01:01:17.880 Houston. Right. We've simply got to get past 01:01:17.880 --> 01:01:21.659 the idea that we can only care to be left alone. 01:01:21.800 --> 01:01:24.480 So to that point, to identify the threat, Jason, 01:01:24.880 --> 01:01:27.519 one, do the primary source history we're talking 01:01:27.519 --> 01:01:30.440 about, read the Quran with the assumption that 01:01:30.440 --> 01:01:33.059 the people who are reading the Quran as their 01:01:33.059 --> 01:01:35.559 primary religious text are just taking it at 01:01:35.559 --> 01:01:37.920 face value. They're not looking for some metaphorical 01:01:37.920 --> 01:01:40.199 reading of the text. Okay, read that, then go 01:01:40.199 --> 01:01:43.039 read Abraham's historical record from the primary 01:01:43.039 --> 01:01:45.760 sources and just get to know what we're talking 01:01:45.760 --> 01:01:48.480 about. Don't just assume some intellectually 01:01:48.480 --> 01:01:52.719 vacuous late stage Western liberalism that nobody 01:01:52.719 --> 01:01:55.260 cares about anything, go read their primary sources 01:01:55.260 --> 01:01:57.059 and assume that they believe it and see if that 01:01:57.059 --> 01:01:59.659 makes sense of how they act. And then maybe you 01:01:59.659 --> 01:02:01.480 can draw some conclusions about what they represent 01:02:01.480 --> 01:02:03.880 as a four -centre society. Right. You know, speaking 01:02:03.880 --> 01:02:05.760 of being educated, a lot of Americans need to 01:02:05.760 --> 01:02:08.659 be educated on what our founding documents actually 01:02:08.659 --> 01:02:10.239 mean. You know, we brought that up with the First 01:02:10.239 --> 01:02:12.599 Amendment. So many people assume pluralism is 01:02:12.599 --> 01:02:14.440 just the thing that we have to have because that's 01:02:14.440 --> 01:02:17.280 what the law says when it doesn't say anything 01:02:17.280 --> 01:02:21.880 of the kind. And the American tradition has in 01:02:21.880 --> 01:02:25.880 the past lots of precedent for saying, no, that 01:02:25.880 --> 01:02:27.539 religion is not allowed here. We're not going 01:02:27.539 --> 01:02:29.699 to do that. And furthermore, we're going to protect 01:02:29.699 --> 01:02:32.119 the religions we do have. There's a very famous 01:02:32.119 --> 01:02:35.119 case where someone blasphemed, I can't recall 01:02:35.119 --> 01:02:37.679 exactly what was said, but I think it was blasphemed 01:02:37.679 --> 01:02:41.260 Christ and it was done intentionally to insult 01:02:41.260 --> 01:02:43.480 someone and to cause a physical confrontation 01:02:43.480 --> 01:02:45.789 to occur. And that man took that case to the 01:02:45.789 --> 01:02:48.030 Supreme Court after he was charged with the offense 01:02:48.030 --> 01:02:51.329 of blasphemy. And the Supreme Court found in 01:02:51.329 --> 01:02:54.730 favor of the prosecution and said, you can't 01:02:54.730 --> 01:02:59.110 do that. This is not new. And our post -war consensus 01:02:59.110 --> 01:03:00.489 world, everyone just says, well, you just got 01:03:00.489 --> 01:03:02.570 to put up with whatever religions say that they 01:03:02.570 --> 01:03:04.869 want to do and whoever wants to be here and however 01:03:04.869 --> 01:03:07.329 they want to act and practice because the First 01:03:07.329 --> 01:03:09.800 Amendment. But that's not the founders intent 01:03:09.800 --> 01:03:11.800 for the First Amendment. And it never was. And 01:03:11.800 --> 01:03:13.199 it wasn't their understanding when they wrote 01:03:13.199 --> 01:03:15.360 it. And it wasn't their practice for decades 01:03:15.360 --> 01:03:18.139 after they wrote it. So American reform is a 01:03:18.139 --> 01:03:19.760 good place for this because there's lots of commentary 01:03:19.760 --> 01:03:22.099 on the specifically this issue and just reading 01:03:22.099 --> 01:03:24.059 the primary documents, reading what the founders 01:03:24.059 --> 01:03:26.239 commentaries on those documents were and what 01:03:26.239 --> 01:03:29.420 they meant. So there's no restriction against 01:03:29.420 --> 01:03:31.599 the government saying that can't be done here 01:03:31.599 --> 01:03:34.550 religiously. And to kind of piggyback on that, 01:03:34.590 --> 01:03:36.590 to go back to way earlier in the episode where 01:03:36.590 --> 01:03:38.550 you talked about the charters of the original 01:03:38.550 --> 01:03:40.849 colonies, there's going to be an established 01:03:40.849 --> 01:03:43.210 church for this colony, but it can't impose itself 01:03:43.210 --> 01:03:45.010 upon other people and stuff like that, right? 01:03:45.489 --> 01:03:47.150 Like they're privileging Christianity and the 01:03:47.150 --> 01:03:49.050 colonies were going to be sort of these areas 01:03:49.050 --> 01:03:51.250 where if you're Anglican, gravitate to the Anglican 01:03:51.250 --> 01:03:53.630 one. Maybe that's Maryland. Go to Virginia. Right. 01:03:53.809 --> 01:03:56.429 Whatever that is. And these were places where 01:03:56.429 --> 01:03:58.730 you could have... Maryland was the Catholic colony, 01:03:58.849 --> 01:04:01.510 I think. Catholic, okay. So you can have your 01:04:01.510 --> 01:04:05.010 preferred flavor of Christianity. You just can't 01:04:05.010 --> 01:04:06.949 have a federal government that says, this is 01:04:06.949 --> 01:04:10.530 the only form. Kind of harkening back to my government 01:04:10.530 --> 01:04:13.730 education, Rhode Island is seen as the Petri 01:04:13.730 --> 01:04:16.889 dish from which American religious liberty springs 01:04:16.889 --> 01:04:20.010 from. And it's often foisted on Baptists because 01:04:20.010 --> 01:04:22.590 Roger Williams is this strange character in history, 01:04:22.730 --> 01:04:25.349 both American and church. He started at high 01:04:25.349 --> 01:04:27.449 church, maybe Anglican, Catholic, something like 01:04:27.449 --> 01:04:30.119 that. he ends his life in what looks like apostasy. 01:04:30.199 --> 01:04:32.280 But for this brief window, he's in something 01:04:32.280 --> 01:04:34.719 that we might say is similar to Baptist theology. 01:04:35.440 --> 01:04:38.000 And that's when he found Rhode Island. And Rhode 01:04:38.000 --> 01:04:39.480 Island - Because he had been kicked out of everywhere 01:04:39.480 --> 01:04:42.920 else. Yes. And Rhode Island does not have, it's 01:04:42.920 --> 01:04:45.719 the unique colony that does not have the established 01:04:45.719 --> 01:04:49.280 church identified. So it's seen as this open 01:04:49.280 --> 01:04:51.940 -ended religious environment, anything goes. 01:04:52.039 --> 01:04:54.920 It's kind of a libertarian thing. Right. That's 01:04:54.920 --> 01:04:57.139 how you're sold. But if you go read the Rhode 01:04:57.139 --> 01:04:59.099 Island Charter, which you can do, it's actually 01:04:59.099 --> 01:05:00.760 kind of hard to find, but if you read the original 01:05:00.760 --> 01:05:03.719 Charter, it specifies in the Charter that Rhode 01:05:03.719 --> 01:05:06.880 Island, part of the reason it's granted status, 01:05:07.380 --> 01:05:11.099 is for the conversion of the heathen. And so 01:05:11.099 --> 01:05:14.260 what that Charter says is Rhode Island, for whatever 01:05:14.260 --> 01:05:16.679 greater degree of religious liberty it had in 01:05:16.679 --> 01:05:19.500 the modern sense, its express purpose was to 01:05:19.500 --> 01:05:22.340 bring Indians, Native Americans into the Christian 01:05:22.340 --> 01:05:25.820 faith. Even the one that sold to you, as sort 01:05:25.820 --> 01:05:29.679 of the most egalitarian religious colony was 01:05:29.679 --> 01:05:32.780 privileging Christianity and expecting the pagans 01:05:32.780 --> 01:05:35.599 to be converted through it. He just can't stress 01:05:35.599 --> 01:05:37.719 this enough. The narrative you've been sold about 01:05:37.719 --> 01:05:40.599 religious liberty is inconsistent with the primary 01:05:40.599 --> 01:05:44.760 sources from the junk. There's nowhere that's 01:05:44.760 --> 01:05:47.059 present. Yeah. And you know, if you're a person 01:05:47.059 --> 01:05:49.659 out there who clings to the founding documents 01:05:49.659 --> 01:05:52.199 above everything else and thinks that they justify 01:05:52.199 --> 01:05:55.260 pluralism, in this kind of unlimited sense, you're 01:05:55.260 --> 01:05:57.860 going to find that if unlimited pluralism is 01:05:57.860 --> 01:06:00.099 what is allowed, then those founding documents 01:06:00.099 --> 01:06:02.500 are going to be gone with it. They're just going 01:06:02.500 --> 01:06:04.820 to be erased because the Muslims, hypothetically, 01:06:04.940 --> 01:06:07.139 if they were to conquer, they would not govern 01:06:07.139 --> 01:06:10.159 by those. They're not leaving a Catholic colony. 01:06:10.159 --> 01:06:12.699 They have Sharia law. Yeah, they've got their 01:06:12.699 --> 01:06:15.880 own system for that. And it's essentially fascistic. 01:06:16.440 --> 01:06:19.179 I mean, you see it. We have countries. They've 01:06:19.179 --> 01:06:21.619 got some monarchies. We've got Iran, which who 01:06:21.619 --> 01:06:23.340 knows what's going on with them now. While we're 01:06:23.340 --> 01:06:25.019 recording this, Iran's in the middle of what 01:06:25.019 --> 01:06:28.179 might be a revolution, but they have a religious 01:06:28.179 --> 01:06:30.860 kind of fascistic system and that's just the 01:06:30.860 --> 01:06:32.980 way they run things. Well, and I was having a 01:06:32.980 --> 01:06:35.179 conversation with a former student recently about 01:06:35.179 --> 01:06:38.159 this. You think about even sort of a modern, 01:06:38.539 --> 01:06:41.500 idealized Muslim city like Dubai. So it's like 01:06:41.500 --> 01:06:45.119 Tony Stark hometown, you know, the rich and powerful 01:06:45.119 --> 01:06:48.480 go there for a playground. Everybody there knows. 01:06:48.639 --> 01:06:50.559 You don't have anything bad to say about the 01:06:50.559 --> 01:06:53.079 prophet. For all the things that they're willing 01:06:53.079 --> 01:06:55.320 to indulge Western access. A lot of that city 01:06:55.320 --> 01:06:58.239 was built by slave labor, by the way. Sure. They 01:06:58.239 --> 01:07:01.099 will not play around even in sort of the most 01:07:01.099 --> 01:07:05.159 liberalized form of their religion for monetary 01:07:05.159 --> 01:07:08.159 access and whatnot. They will not play along 01:07:08.159 --> 01:07:10.139 with the idea that you have liberty to make fun 01:07:10.139 --> 01:07:14.219 of Muhammad as someone who engaged in under... 01:07:14.219 --> 01:07:16.739 I won't get into all of the details. Muhammad's 01:07:16.739 --> 01:07:18.949 a deeply moral figure. but you can't say that 01:07:18.949 --> 01:07:22.289 in Dubai. You can go and drink and have fornication 01:07:22.289 --> 01:07:24.530 and whatnot. They'll let you do that, but they 01:07:24.530 --> 01:07:26.969 will not let you mess with their religion. Yeah. 01:07:27.010 --> 01:07:28.849 Yeah. I'm going to just throw one other one in 01:07:28.849 --> 01:07:30.809 there that listener again, I have to qualify. 01:07:30.929 --> 01:07:32.650 Like this is the opinion of Jeff Robb, maybe 01:07:32.650 --> 01:07:35.030 not the whole miniviscar, but there's a concept 01:07:35.030 --> 01:07:38.409 called the friend -enemy distinction that is 01:07:38.409 --> 01:07:42.289 an intellectual tool under discussion in what 01:07:42.289 --> 01:07:43.969 we'd call the dissonant right. So like, if you 01:07:43.969 --> 01:07:46.349 think about maybe the people who are most enthusiastic 01:07:46.349 --> 01:07:49.139 about JD Vance, they're talking about the friend 01:07:49.139 --> 01:07:52.539 -enemy distinction. And Muslims practice friend 01:07:52.539 --> 01:07:55.639 -enemy distinction really well. Modern American 01:07:55.639 --> 01:07:58.920 evangelicals do not. So let's say JD Vance is 01:07:58.920 --> 01:08:03.179 having an interview with a hostile media figure. 01:08:03.579 --> 01:08:07.380 And in that interview, he uses a four -letter 01:08:07.380 --> 01:08:11.679 word. Nobody here is going to endorse using vulgar 01:08:11.679 --> 01:08:14.000 language. Nobody here is enthusiastic about that, 01:08:14.000 --> 01:08:15.960 promoting that, right? But the friend -enemy 01:08:15.960 --> 01:08:19.840 distinction would say, JD is a friend, and he 01:08:19.840 --> 01:08:22.880 may have made an error there. The hostile media 01:08:22.880 --> 01:08:26.000 member who's interviewing him is an enemy. And 01:08:26.000 --> 01:08:28.579 so we're not going to criticize JD in the way 01:08:28.579 --> 01:08:31.439 the enemy would, because it bolsters the enemy 01:08:31.439 --> 01:08:34.300 who would destroy us along with JD if he could. 01:08:34.819 --> 01:08:36.760 We may have a private conversation with a guy 01:08:36.760 --> 01:08:38.520 like JD and be like, man, really, we need you 01:08:38.520 --> 01:08:41.220 to kind of button up your language. But what 01:08:41.220 --> 01:08:43.979 we're not going to do is leap on on his failure 01:08:43.979 --> 01:08:47.359 there as an opportunity to show how how superior 01:08:47.359 --> 01:08:50.640 we are in our pietism, how superior we are in 01:08:50.640 --> 01:08:53.300 not being that kind of Christian in a way that 01:08:53.300 --> 01:08:56.180 feeds the desires of the people who would just 01:08:56.180 --> 01:08:58.699 destroy all of us if they could. And I think 01:08:58.699 --> 01:09:01.220 one of the things that Abraham's work suggests 01:09:01.220 --> 01:09:03.819 to us, what the Crusaders suggest to us, is that 01:09:03.819 --> 01:09:05.399 we should remember who our friends or enemies 01:09:05.399 --> 01:09:08.520 are and deal with them in those appropriate categories. 01:09:12.840 --> 01:09:16.319 So, listener, one thing, this is post crusaders, 01:09:16.359 --> 01:09:18.619 but we have to talk about it. The crusaders would 01:09:18.619 --> 01:09:20.699 have been happy to have these, I think. But you 01:09:20.699 --> 01:09:24.779 go ahead. Jason, who I wish you could see the 01:09:24.779 --> 01:09:28.380 studio we're in. Jason is just this guru of tech 01:09:28.380 --> 01:09:30.699 and audio and whatnot. So we just come in and 01:09:30.699 --> 01:09:32.920 talk. Jason does all this other incredible stuff. 01:09:33.619 --> 01:09:35.539 Well, this other incredible thing he's done is 01:09:35.539 --> 01:09:37.439 that he has brought us these bare knuckle work 01:09:37.439 --> 01:09:40.199 gloves. And we talked on previous episodes about 01:09:40.199 --> 01:09:42.800 like wanting to get a pair or whatnot. So he's 01:09:42.800 --> 01:09:46.100 brought them in and I have used a lot of work 01:09:46.100 --> 01:09:50.399 gloves in my life and these things are incredible. 01:09:51.600 --> 01:09:56.880 Uh, the material is that's bison. Yeah. Okay. 01:09:56.880 --> 01:09:59.319 Of course it's the superior material. If you've 01:09:59.319 --> 01:10:02.479 ever gotten into a high end vehicle and then 01:10:02.479 --> 01:10:08.220 had to get into your car. You're just kind of 01:10:08.220 --> 01:10:11.260 depressed by... I was a valet in college, so 01:10:11.260 --> 01:10:14.500 I was always depressed. I mean, you shut a Volvo 01:10:14.500 --> 01:10:16.420 door and you're like, oh, that thing's going 01:10:16.420 --> 01:10:19.729 to withstand an atomic bomb. You shut your geo 01:10:19.729 --> 01:10:22.350 trackers door and you're like, I would be very 01:10:22.350 --> 01:10:24.229 happy if this thing survives the potholes on 01:10:24.229 --> 01:10:26.850 the way home. And that's the experience of dealing 01:10:26.850 --> 01:10:28.449 with these bare knuckle gloves. Like the first 01:10:28.449 --> 01:10:30.550 time I put them on, I thought, Oh, this is, this 01:10:30.550 --> 01:10:31.970 is what a work glove feels like. This is what 01:10:31.970 --> 01:10:34.010 a work glove feels like. I bet I won't wear a 01:10:34.010 --> 01:10:37.229 hole in this by the end of the week. So we have 01:10:37.229 --> 01:10:41.630 the D 451 bare knuckle work glove, brown leather, 01:10:41.850 --> 01:10:45.170 some, uh, black highlighting on the black trim, 01:10:45.329 --> 01:10:47.670 black trim on the fringe and in the knuckles. 01:10:47.949 --> 01:10:51.609 These are amazing, Jason. Yeah, that bare knuckles, 01:10:51.729 --> 01:10:54.609 they keep, they continue to impress me. So listener, 01:10:54.729 --> 01:10:57.109 if you want to get yourself a pair, you go to 01:10:57.109 --> 01:11:00.829 their website and put in, uh, is a car as a keyword 01:11:00.829 --> 01:11:03.930 and you can get 15 % off. So you'll be supporting 01:11:03.930 --> 01:11:06.850 the show too. So you get to get a good pair of 01:11:06.850 --> 01:11:09.770 gloves, support a good company and help us. Yeah. 01:11:09.770 --> 01:11:11.970 I don't know that Godfrey had the opportunity 01:11:11.970 --> 01:11:15.850 to wear bison work gloves, but in my head he 01:11:15.850 --> 01:11:18.720 did now, like when I pictured Godfrey. Chopping 01:11:18.720 --> 01:11:22.260 down in one stroke a camel. He's going to be 01:11:22.260 --> 01:11:25.779 wearing like get my gloves bare knuckle D 451 01:11:25.779 --> 01:11:28.279 gloves Yeah, and so they're their website. It's 01:11:28.279 --> 01:11:32.020 bear. It's in the animal be a are knuckles Spelled 01:11:32.020 --> 01:11:35.319 the usual way so I've got a pair in my hand and 01:11:35.319 --> 01:11:37.500 I've had them on my hand throughout the episode 01:11:37.500 --> 01:11:39.720 occasionally So if you hear any weird squeaking, 01:11:39.720 --> 01:11:41.760 it's me putting gloves on just because I wanted 01:11:41.760 --> 01:11:45.279 to fidget with them kind of like you when you 01:11:45.279 --> 01:11:47.619 put money like I need to go rebuild a fence. 01:11:47.699 --> 01:11:49.380 Yeah. I'm going to find something to do with 01:11:49.380 --> 01:11:51.539 these. And it needs to be something with jagged 01:11:51.539 --> 01:11:54.600 edges. And I want to put up barbed wire screens. 01:11:54.920 --> 01:11:56.659 I've got a huge pile of bricks. I have to move. 01:11:56.819 --> 01:11:58.420 I wasn't kidding about that. So I'm looking forward 01:11:58.420 --> 01:12:02.199 to using these to do that. Well, thank you listener 01:12:02.199 --> 01:12:04.880 for joining us. I hope you got something out 01:12:04.880 --> 01:12:07.659 of this conversation. I know I did. We will talk 01:12:07.659 --> 01:12:08.260 again soon.