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Welcome back everyone to the Men of Issachar

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podcast. We have a very special guest this week.

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Mr. Nick Duncan joins us. Nick is very highly

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respected in the classical Christian school world.

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He is a very wise man, very well studied, as

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you'll quickly see. He has a lot to offer to

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this conversation and I truly consider him to

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be someone who is representative of the Men of

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Issachar. So I hope you enjoy this conversation.

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All right. Welcome everybody to the third episode

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of the Manavisakar podcast. I've brought some

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more friends in today. Mr. Nick Duncan. He's

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a good friend and someone wise that I look up

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to. Again, Terry Gant and Jeff Wright are with

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me and I'm Jason Gaw. So what are we getting

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into today, guys? Let's see, this is we've we've

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figured out we're kind of getting into a rhythm

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here of being the the podcast that is a grab

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bag of Cultural issues and whatnot things that

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things of that sort Partly because the men of

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isekar as we've we've mentioned before Are the

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men who knew the times and knew what to do and

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so it's almost like it's almost like we're all

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on on on like four hot seats So it's we don't

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have we don't have very firm plans here, but

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let's see what to kick it off I've been reading

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a book, and I will tell you about it if you'd

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like. Oh, I would like. Okay. I would like. All

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right, so there's a fellow by the name of Raymond

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Ibrahim, who's a descendant of Egyptian Coptic

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Christians, and he's a historian by education.

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And so he operates a blog, which is an interesting

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read. I guess a blog is the right word. where

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he details ongoing, like contemporary, like with

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our times, persecution of Christians, mostly

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in the Islamic world. And he has a couple of

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books out and he's got what is now becoming about

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to become a trilogy. At the time that we're recording

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this, the book is actually not out yet, but it

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comes out in about a week. And so this is the

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third in the series. So the first one was called

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Sword and Scimitar, which is about the Crusades

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and it focused mostly on the major battles of

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the Crusades. Actually just got that in the mail

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because I love defenders what you're about to

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talk about so much Yes, we read it over fall

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break and I was like, well, I've got to complete

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the you know the set Yeah, so it may be they'll

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come in a box set in the future. We actually

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arrived in So sword and scimitar you'll have

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to let me know what you think of that when you

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get done with it So that one's mostly about major

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battles and sort of the aftermath what led well

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led up to them and what were the the ramifications

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of the battles Defenders of the West is the second

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one, which is Primarily many biographies of,

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I believe it's nine crusaders, if I remember

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the number right. It's somewhere in that neighborhood

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anyway. And that one. We've all voted and decided

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it's none. Okay. Good. All right. So you may

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have evidence to the contrary, but it's nine.

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Nope. Democracy rules. So that one is a really

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great read too. And I particularly would commend

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that one to people because I think biographies

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and this may be a place to get opinions here.

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Biographies are good. Intro into history because

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it is the story of a person so we have a character

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and you have Their struggles their flaws. You

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have all those things the things that we can

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identify with so If you like biographies, it's

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a really good one You've got there, you know

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each guy has a chapter about the events of their

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life how they furthered the defense of Christendom

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versus the the invasion of Islamic powers Some

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of them were crusades. Some of them were the

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Spanish reconquista And then we have the last

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ones chronologically. They're kind of arranged

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chronologically. The last ones are the lesser

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known guys that were mostly in like Eastern Europe

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fighting the Ottoman invasion into Europe, which

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is a period of history that we don't are in America

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don't know real well. We're kind of familiar

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with the Crusades from movies and sort of the

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imagery of Knights. Well, in the shame campaign

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in our education that Christianity is bad because

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the Crusades every other religion that you can

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point to like Islam that's so violent. Oh Christianity

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is just as bad because the Crusades. Yeah And

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Abraham's, you know, he does a good job of rehabilitating

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the Crusades he's laying out a case for why the

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Crusades were not only justified but morally

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upright and That they were defensive conflicts

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primarily that the Christians engaged in and

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then I told you guys I Just gush about that book.

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Yeah but for our listeners one of the things

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it did for me is it actually I came away feeling

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a sense of shame and did some like authentic

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repentance because I had just bought without

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questioning the idea that the Crusades were morally

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bankrupt. And I realized what I had done had

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been participating in the shaming of faithful

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Christian brothers who were doing what needed

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to be done in the time. And so I came away from

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that book. particularly challenged that I try

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not to be someone who takes any kind of narrative

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uncritically, but I had that one. And I'm very

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thankful to Ibrahim for flipping that on my,

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on, uh, it's head, uh, Vlad Drakul in particular,

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you know, you, you talked about, like, we're

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familiar with certain things in the crusades,

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but some is left to us. I mean, it's almost a

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satanic propaganda campaign that's been waged

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through the eras against him. by the appearances

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of the historical record was a faithful Christian

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brother. Something that's been put on my mind

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as of late is just immigration and how that is

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leading up to us necessarily making a crusade

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of sorts for Christianity. Well, and really it's

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kind of the reconquista model at this point.

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I was watching a video from Dearborn, Michigan

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this week where some Christian protesters were

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protesting something that is very sane, like

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their protest was sane, something like protesting

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the sounding of the Muslim call to prayer over

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public buildings in their town. And they were

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surrounded and harangued by the Muslims, right?

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So this idea that it's a peaceful religion at

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its core, that that's a guise until they get

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a foothold and then they begin acting like they

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acted historically. So I don't know that it'll

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be swords and spears, but there's going to have

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to be some sort of reassertion of the Christian

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West. And that's truly a reconquist in Dearborn

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because I think they're Muslim majority now.

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I think they're like 50 something percent Muslim

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population. Well, there's a famous video of their

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mayor telling a kind of a normal, you know, white

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dude, probably some sort of cultural Christian

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at minimum that he doesn't belong there. Because

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he's upset with the Muslim dominance of the town.

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I mean, the writing's on the wall. Once it's

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overtaking, how do we take it back? Especially

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with the repopulation, like once they start having

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kids and once their kids are indoctrinated. Yeah,

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this is an arena. The best solution here. And

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I'm not calling for anything that's not the best

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solution. I just want to be clear about that.

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The best solution is for the magistrate to exercise

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just powers under God's delegation and to expel

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those who are here legally or here on some kind

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of legal facade. So we have to have deportations.

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Then we have to have an assertion of privileging

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Christianity in the legal code. And I guess that

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could weird people out, but it's... It's been

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the dominant motif for civic governance in the

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Christian West, both Catholic and Reformation.

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And it seems to be quite clear from the primary

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records, it was the assumption of the framers

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of the Constitution. And so the best possible

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thing, the thing that all Christians should be

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praying for, is that the highest magistrate at

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the federal level and then the lesser magistrates

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at the state and city level would begin to exercise

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their just authority towards punishing evil and

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cultivating the good, the way scripture calls.

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Really the law code that we've got in most places

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as it stands already kind of does this because

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it's based on the understanding of Christian

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ethics. Every, every, I think 49 of the 50 states

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are based on British common law, which is rooted

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in Christian ethics. I think Louisiana is the

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exception because they based on French Napoleonic

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code, I think they're, but. You plugged a book,

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so I'll plug another one, but Jeff was talking

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about privileging the Christian faith and how

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Christian governments have done that in the West.

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That's true of pretty much all cultures until

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modern day pluralism, even before Christianity.

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Even pagans believed that promoting religion

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was part of the public good. So if you haven't

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read the Chinese dynastic cultures were the same

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Near Eastern Far Eastern Western anywhere you

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look the Greek and the Greeks and the Hebrews

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talked about promoting religion as part of the

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public good and so when Christians Started gaining

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political power They saw promoting Christianity

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as part of the public good and they felt like

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that was reaffirmed by places like Romans 13,

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which says that the government is is to do good.

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And I'm a Presbyterian, so I confess Westminster

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Confession of Faith. Yeah, sorry, I know. Everybody,

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everybody, everybody at the table. He's a PC

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USA. Not true. That is not true. The American

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revisions, I'm an elder, so I took vows. based

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on the Westminster Confession of Faith with the

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American Revisions. But I do not dislike the

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original, but I also do not believe that the

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American Revisions do harm to Christianity being

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promoted as part of the public good. I believe

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that they were not revised in order that America

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could be pluralistic. They were revised in order

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that America could be broadly Protestant, so

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that Virginia might be Anglican and North Carolina

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might be Presbyterian and Tennessee might be

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Baptist or whatever. Amen. I know, I'll throw

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you a bone here. I know when I'm in the minority.

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So James Baird is a teaching elder in the PCA

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and he recently has released a book called King

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of Kings, where he argues that it is - From Founders

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Press, a great Baptist imprint. From Founders

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Press, that's right. And he argues in the book

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that Christianity should be that it's the civil

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magistrate's job to promote good. Romans teaches

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us that, other places in scripture teaches us

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that. And if the civil magistrate is supposed

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to promote the good, then the one true faith

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should be part of promoting the good. And so

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that's just a plug, Baird's book, because I just

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finished reading it and it's really good. I think

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every... I mean, it's... Very accessible layman

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can read it, but definitely I think elders should

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be reading it especially like my denomination

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the PCA we have a study committee this year to

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study Christian nationalism and so there's a

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lot of debate and discourse about what the civil

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magistrate's role and religion or not is and

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I think this book gives a really helpful way

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forward and roots back into the way not just

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Presbyterians, but all early American Christians

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up through you know, probably the period between

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the civil war and the world wars thought about

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promoting religion as a public good. So Terry,

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I know I'm the one who led us away from the book

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you were actually going to tell us about. Yeah.

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So I'd like to give that kind of theme back to

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you before I do. Since we have mentioned talking

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about natural law, what you're getting at there,

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Nick, is that every society's governance must

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be governed by religious vision. Yeah. Even cannibals.

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participate in cannibalism for religious motivations.

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It is inescapable that government is going to

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reflect some kind of religious and moral vision.

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It's inescapable. So, Terry, tell us about the

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book I interrupted you from telling us about.

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Okay. Well, so we talked about the first two,

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right? Sword and Scimitar is the first one. Defenders

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of the West, I think, is an upgrade from that.

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And I just finished The Two Swords of Christ,

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which is, if you liked having the Crusades rehabilitated

00:13:18.799 --> 00:13:21.309
for you, This one might be interesting to you

00:13:21.309 --> 00:13:23.529
because this is rehabilitating the Knights Templar

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and the Knights Hospitaller. Oh my, my conspiracy

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temple has just started wobbling. Well, it's

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probably going to be settled down actually, because

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a big part of his, what he covers here is it's

00:13:33.529 --> 00:13:35.789
just a chronological historical narrative of

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their founding, why they were founded, the things

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that they did through the Crusades. Until the

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the Templars kind of went extinct in around 1300s.

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There was a specific eradication date. Yes there

00:13:46.889 --> 00:13:49.789
was well sort of so the they were all over Europe,

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right? And they were in the Middle East and other

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places that castles kind of everywhere and the

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King of France at the time Was a scumbag and

00:13:58.210 --> 00:14:01.549
that you know shocking. Yeah I had a professor

00:14:01.549 --> 00:14:03.669
in college that would say the French always there

00:14:03.669 --> 00:14:07.250
when they need you. Yeah Yeah, well this guy

00:14:07.250 --> 00:14:09.610
decided that he didn't want to pay back his his

00:14:09.610 --> 00:14:12.289
enormous debt to the temple which he had borrowed

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money from and so he found a disaffected night

00:14:15.950 --> 00:14:18.330
that had been booted out from his behavior and

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Got him to accuse them of all kinds of insanity

00:14:20.789 --> 00:14:23.110
which includes a lot of things like occultism

00:14:23.110 --> 00:14:27.250
devil worship Communion with demons among other

00:14:27.250 --> 00:14:31.669
things that are unmentionable and so he The Pope

00:14:31.669 --> 00:14:33.590
at the time was a figurehead for the French King

00:14:33.590 --> 00:14:36.809
and he did not help them. And so all the Templars

00:14:36.809 --> 00:14:39.090
in France were eventually hunted down and burned

00:14:39.090 --> 00:14:42.370
at the stake. Order 66. Yeah, basically. Now

00:14:42.370 --> 00:14:44.750
the other countries didn't buy it because they

00:14:44.750 --> 00:14:46.509
were like, well, this is clearly politically

00:14:46.509 --> 00:14:48.529
motivated. He wants their castles and their money

00:14:48.529 --> 00:14:51.929
and stuff like that. But the order really never

00:14:51.929 --> 00:14:54.350
recovered. So they kind of just went extinct.

00:14:55.850 --> 00:14:58.629
And the Knights Hospitaller actually still exists.

00:14:59.319 --> 00:15:02.159
The Knights of the hospital of st. John the Baptist,

00:15:02.379 --> 00:15:04.059
which is I think technically its own sovereign

00:15:04.059 --> 00:15:05.940
entity Like it's like a country kind of like

00:15:05.940 --> 00:15:09.700
the Vatican really tiny little micro thing They

00:15:09.700 --> 00:15:12.440
have sovereign relations, but there's no there's

00:15:12.440 --> 00:15:16.679
not a whole lot to it but a very detailed history

00:15:16.679 --> 00:15:18.980
of both of those and he will disabuse you some

00:15:18.980 --> 00:15:20.940
of the conspiracy stuff because the most people

00:15:20.940 --> 00:15:23.259
who think of the Templars think of like I don't

00:15:23.259 --> 00:15:26.320
know the Da Vinci code The Freemason and the

00:15:26.320 --> 00:15:28.799
Freemasons and created the Illuminati. Yeah.

00:15:29.019 --> 00:15:31.139
And I'll let you read it to find out where the

00:15:31.139 --> 00:15:35.600
connection is there. Um, there's not one, sorry,

00:15:35.779 --> 00:15:38.200
spoiler alert, but, um, so many hours of podcasts

00:15:38.200 --> 00:15:42.879
just got ruined. And he kind of lays out his

00:15:42.879 --> 00:15:44.120
history for that, but he pretty much says, no,

00:15:44.159 --> 00:15:45.799
the order went extinct and anybody who came along

00:15:45.799 --> 00:15:48.480
later claiming that they were sort of the, uh,

00:15:48.519 --> 00:15:50.759
the descendants of these, like the ideological

00:15:50.759 --> 00:15:52.519
descendants of the Templars just borrowed the

00:15:52.519 --> 00:15:54.940
name. And there's more than one, like the Rosicrucians,

00:15:55.720 --> 00:15:58.059
there's a few others that have said like, we're

00:15:58.059 --> 00:16:00.320
the continuation of the Knights Templar, which

00:16:00.320 --> 00:16:02.600
actually their real name is the Poor Fellow Soldiers

00:16:02.600 --> 00:16:05.419
of Christ. And they got the name Templars because

00:16:05.419 --> 00:16:08.340
their headquarters was the Temple of Solomon,

00:16:08.759 --> 00:16:11.220
or the Temple Mount. That's where they were given

00:16:11.220 --> 00:16:13.480
that after the first crusade as like a base of

00:16:13.480 --> 00:16:17.700
operations. So very interesting read and I've

00:16:17.700 --> 00:16:20.279
not I've not I need some time to reflect before

00:16:20.279 --> 00:16:22.860
I decide if I like to defenders of the West or

00:16:22.860 --> 00:16:25.299
the two swords of Christ better But it's in high

00:16:25.299 --> 00:16:29.039
contention. I think okay Well, so that'll be

00:16:29.039 --> 00:16:31.740
out on the 25th of November So depending on when

00:16:31.740 --> 00:16:33.799
this comes out you might can go get it elites

00:16:33.799 --> 00:16:36.139
get it first The rest of us, please have to get

00:16:36.139 --> 00:16:38.460
it. I reviewed his last book for American reformer

00:16:38.460 --> 00:16:43.450
and so I reached out to him on on x .com And

00:16:43.450 --> 00:16:45.509
asked if I could have an advanced copy and they

00:16:45.509 --> 00:16:48.669
sent me a digital version. So they were very

00:16:48.669 --> 00:16:51.070
kind of sky horse publishing, if I remember correct.

00:16:51.730 --> 00:16:54.990
So, so the Templars were not the bad guys trying

00:16:54.990 --> 00:17:01.309
to destroy principle pluralism that Orlando Bloom

00:17:01.309 --> 00:17:06.549
stopped. It turns out Saladin was terrible. Shocking.

00:17:06.690 --> 00:17:07.730
A shocking revelation. Are you telling me for

00:17:07.730 --> 00:17:11.230
the first time? I'm just sharing this now. Yes.

00:17:11.430 --> 00:17:14.069
Yes. There's some, this is a reference to the

00:17:14.069 --> 00:17:16.089
movie kingdom of heaven, which is a, which is

00:17:16.089 --> 00:17:18.970
a good movie and a terrible rendition of history.

00:17:19.329 --> 00:17:21.289
Yeah. It's supposed to be better in the director's

00:17:21.289 --> 00:17:24.390
cut, right? It is the extended cut is better.

00:17:24.619 --> 00:17:27.180
I've actually never seen either one. I know the,

00:17:27.180 --> 00:17:31.519
like the memes of the guy and stuff. The film's

00:17:31.519 --> 00:17:34.119
a good time. It's just, it makes the Christians

00:17:34.119 --> 00:17:36.220
look like the bad guys. Specifically the Templars

00:17:36.220 --> 00:17:39.599
are the antagonists and they kind of want Jerusalem

00:17:39.599 --> 00:17:42.640
to be Christian. They're like, no, the Muslims

00:17:42.640 --> 00:17:45.039
and Christians and Jews can all live here peacefully

00:17:45.039 --> 00:17:46.700
together. That's kind of the motif of the movie.

00:17:46.740 --> 00:17:49.079
I will say this about the Templars and the Hospitallers

00:17:49.079 --> 00:17:51.579
as well. Part of the reason why they developed

00:17:51.579 --> 00:17:53.980
that reputation historically is because with

00:17:53.980 --> 00:17:56.200
much long experience with dealing with Muslims,

00:17:57.160 --> 00:17:59.160
they figured out that Muslims don't always tell

00:17:59.160 --> 00:18:02.279
the truth. And so there were several times when

00:18:02.279 --> 00:18:03.779
Muslims would reach out and say, we're going

00:18:03.779 --> 00:18:06.420
to convert to Christianity if you don't attack

00:18:06.420 --> 00:18:11.089
us. And some of the more naive crusaders that

00:18:11.089 --> 00:18:12.829
were recent arrivals to the Holy Land would be

00:18:12.829 --> 00:18:15.490
like, oh, great, wonderful. This is great. And

00:18:15.490 --> 00:18:16.849
then on the way back, the Templars would just

00:18:16.849 --> 00:18:19.230
like attack the ambassador train because they

00:18:19.230 --> 00:18:21.910
were like, no, they're not. And that's you can

00:18:21.910 --> 00:18:23.289
know. You can pass judgment on that if you think

00:18:23.289 --> 00:18:25.470
that's hasty. That's the kind of thing that wouldn't

00:18:25.470 --> 00:18:29.289
fly today with Big Eva. Well, it also seems like

00:18:29.289 --> 00:18:33.569
that's the error we continue to. Take up writing

00:18:33.569 --> 00:18:37.200
like. a religion that in its sacred text says

00:18:37.200 --> 00:18:40.200
it's not wicked to deceive what they view as

00:18:40.200 --> 00:18:43.119
pagans. We just ignore that. Yeah, Abraham is

00:18:43.119 --> 00:18:45.000
actually really good on that specifically. He's

00:18:45.000 --> 00:18:47.420
very knowledgeable about Muslim doctrine, and

00:18:47.420 --> 00:18:49.920
so there's little sidebars in the book where

00:18:49.920 --> 00:18:52.039
it's like, here's why this is ethical for them,

00:18:52.200 --> 00:18:54.640
why they can do that, according to their teachings.

00:18:54.640 --> 00:18:57.140
Within their framework. So they can lie, and

00:18:57.140 --> 00:18:58.700
then they have another, I can't remember the

00:18:58.700 --> 00:19:00.220
Arabic word for it, but they have another one

00:19:00.220 --> 00:19:02.779
where they're allowed to Use double entendre

00:19:02.779 --> 00:19:04.839
to kind of obscure the truth. So if a guy said

00:19:04.839 --> 00:19:07.079
he'd the example he gives is Hey, can I borrow

00:19:07.079 --> 00:19:09.279
a dollar and the guy says I'm sorry. I haven't

00:19:09.279 --> 00:19:11.960
got a penny on me Well, clearly the implication

00:19:11.960 --> 00:19:14.380
is that you don't have a dollar But what what

00:19:14.380 --> 00:19:16.240
the Muslim would be able to say is technically

00:19:16.240 --> 00:19:18.339
I didn't have a penny But I did have a pocketful

00:19:18.339 --> 00:19:19.859
of dollars that I could have given him but he

00:19:19.859 --> 00:19:22.200
didn't lie isn't Mohammed referred to as the

00:19:22.200 --> 00:19:25.759
great deceiver by them Maybe I think in there

00:19:25.759 --> 00:19:27.829
in their book. Yeah Well, he encouraged them

00:19:27.829 --> 00:19:30.730
to basically lie as long as they had to, to get

00:19:30.730 --> 00:19:33.349
the upper hand. And once they have it, then they

00:19:33.349 --> 00:19:35.130
don't have to anymore. Well, and this is like

00:19:35.130 --> 00:19:38.930
the downside of people who've been shaped by

00:19:38.930 --> 00:19:41.849
the Christian ethic for centuries. We believe

00:19:41.849 --> 00:19:44.309
strongly in telling the truth because Jesus presents

00:19:44.309 --> 00:19:48.109
himself as the truth, right? So any kind of deception

00:19:48.109 --> 00:19:50.769
is an assault on his character, but it just leaves

00:19:50.769 --> 00:19:54.630
us naively very susceptible to groups that are

00:19:54.630 --> 00:19:57.390
happy to deceive. Yeah, and the Templars, that

00:19:57.390 --> 00:19:59.190
was one of their chief rules, was that you cannot

00:19:59.190 --> 00:20:05.089
lie, like in any context. So they were what we

00:20:05.089 --> 00:20:07.109
would think of today as Roman Catholics, so we

00:20:07.109 --> 00:20:08.789
wouldn't agree with everything. They were monks

00:20:08.789 --> 00:20:11.049
in their lifestyle, so there's some things that

00:20:11.049 --> 00:20:13.250
we think that they probably withheld from themselves

00:20:13.250 --> 00:20:18.210
that is extra lawful, like it's succeeding, like

00:20:18.210 --> 00:20:21.329
pharisaically. But one of the things that it

00:20:21.329 --> 00:20:23.309
did result in is that they were extremely single

00:20:23.309 --> 00:20:25.400
-minded. And they were very, very good at fighting.

00:20:25.640 --> 00:20:28.180
They were they won many victories against impossible

00:20:28.180 --> 00:20:30.799
odds. I mean, they were they were easily ten

00:20:30.799 --> 00:20:37.160
to one in combat ratio kill death ratio. So great

00:20:37.160 --> 00:20:39.380
stories. It's an emotional roller coaster, much

00:20:39.380 --> 00:20:42.099
like defenders. There's a lot of losses and it's

00:20:42.099 --> 00:20:44.859
hard to read because he does detail what happens

00:20:44.859 --> 00:20:47.180
in the aftermath. And the Muslims did not treat

00:20:47.180 --> 00:20:49.920
their conquered adversaries with any kind of

00:20:49.920 --> 00:20:53.799
dignity at all. But there's also some great heroic

00:20:53.799 --> 00:20:55.940
victories. So if you find that stuff interesting,

00:20:55.980 --> 00:20:59.039
there's even a story in there That he relates

00:20:59.039 --> 00:21:02.319
as a as a historical fact of a dragon slaying

00:21:02.319 --> 00:21:05.680
on the island of Rhodes by night of the hospital

00:21:05.680 --> 00:21:11.119
Now I've got Jason's attention now Should I go

00:21:11.119 --> 00:21:14.359
into that more Yeah, okay, then you won't hear

00:21:14.359 --> 00:21:17.019
that. All right. So apparently Rhodes the island

00:21:17.019 --> 00:21:19.059
of Rhodes This is the same place where the Colossus

00:21:19.059 --> 00:21:21.769
of Rhodes stood which was one of the wonders

00:21:21.769 --> 00:21:24.269
of the ancient world. The Knights of the Hospital

00:21:24.269 --> 00:21:26.950
built a fortress on the foundations of the Colossus

00:21:26.950 --> 00:21:28.789
of Rhodes because it had already collapsed and

00:21:28.789 --> 00:21:32.869
they just kind of used the groundwork. But the

00:21:32.869 --> 00:21:35.950
story goes that there was a giant serpent of

00:21:35.950 --> 00:21:39.710
some kind on the island that was killing shepherds

00:21:39.710 --> 00:21:42.410
and livestock. And eventually, knights were going

00:21:42.410 --> 00:21:44.150
after it, but then none of them came back. And

00:21:44.150 --> 00:21:46.470
so the master of the order said, nobody go after

00:21:46.470 --> 00:21:48.769
the serpent. I'm tired of losing guys to it.

00:21:49.329 --> 00:21:51.109
But one of the knights decided he was going to

00:21:51.109 --> 00:21:53.349
do it anyway. So the trick that he came up with

00:21:53.349 --> 00:21:56.089
is he taught his he went back to his home to

00:21:56.089 --> 00:21:58.490
where like his family lands were and he built

00:21:58.490 --> 00:22:01.529
a model of a giant dragon like a giant serpent

00:22:01.529 --> 00:22:04.329
and then he trained his dogs to attack it whenever

00:22:04.329 --> 00:22:07.589
he struck it with his sword and So he goes out

00:22:07.589 --> 00:22:09.690
there with his dogs and he goes in and finds

00:22:09.690 --> 00:22:12.230
it and fights it and while the Serpent's trying

00:22:12.230 --> 00:22:14.940
to get him the dogs start tearing it up so the

00:22:14.940 --> 00:22:16.380
serpent turns its attention to them and he's

00:22:16.380 --> 00:22:18.359
able to get a sword into it because he wasn't

00:22:18.359 --> 00:22:21.059
able to strike through the scales like he couldn't

00:22:21.059 --> 00:22:22.779
slash it so he managed to get kind of up under

00:22:22.779 --> 00:22:25.119
it and get it in the stomach and he killed it

00:22:25.119 --> 00:22:27.059
and according and so part of the reason why Ibrahim

00:22:27.059 --> 00:22:28.680
brings this up because it sounds like fantasy

00:22:28.680 --> 00:22:31.480
story is that it appears in multiple records

00:22:31.480 --> 00:22:33.539
and that there's lots of people who said things

00:22:33.539 --> 00:22:35.480
like yeah the skull of it hung from their castle

00:22:35.480 --> 00:22:37.440
for like a long time until it just kind of rotted

00:22:37.440 --> 00:22:40.579
away and this is this is coming from several

00:22:40.579 --> 00:22:44.230
accounts that didn't veer off into mythology.

00:22:44.869 --> 00:22:47.589
They're actually recording like, it's just records

00:22:47.589 --> 00:22:52.150
of the knights. So according to other sources

00:22:52.150 --> 00:22:55.430
outside of the Christian tradition, various cultures

00:22:55.430 --> 00:22:57.849
referred to Rhodes as the Isle of Serpents, and

00:22:57.849 --> 00:22:59.890
there's like references from other peoples that

00:22:59.890 --> 00:23:02.509
are kind of pre -existing this that suggests

00:23:02.509 --> 00:23:05.670
that there was some kind of serpent -like creatures

00:23:05.670 --> 00:23:07.930
that lived here. Maybe this is the last of them.

00:23:08.470 --> 00:23:10.109
It could have been a crocodile, maybe a giant

00:23:10.109 --> 00:23:13.549
crocodile or something like that. Um, yeah, go

00:23:13.549 --> 00:23:15.930
ahead. Yeah. No, I just had listened to the haunted

00:23:15.930 --> 00:23:19.730
cosmos this morning to plug another podcast and

00:23:19.730 --> 00:23:22.589
they were talking about an American dragon and

00:23:22.589 --> 00:23:25.569
it was the, uh, what's the name? It was the,

00:23:25.569 --> 00:23:29.589
the Snelly gaster. Oh yeah. Let me guess the

00:23:29.589 --> 00:23:32.710
Smithsonian came in and see all of the remains

00:23:32.710 --> 00:23:36.410
once the Snelly gaster was destroyed by some,

00:23:36.410 --> 00:23:39.069
by some farmer with a lever action, probably

00:23:39.069 --> 00:23:43.450
they hung up a cow. A dead cow. To try to lure

00:23:43.450 --> 00:23:46.210
it in? And lured it in and had a hook in it.

00:23:46.230 --> 00:23:48.390
I mean, they went, basically went fishing for

00:23:48.390 --> 00:23:52.190
this dragon. That's very American right there.

00:23:52.730 --> 00:23:56.349
Yeah. Everything likes beef. Almost as good as

00:23:56.349 --> 00:23:59.190
bison. Almost as good. They don't want to give

00:23:59.190 --> 00:24:01.470
the snallygaster your bison meat. That's true.

00:24:01.470 --> 00:24:06.089
That's true. Hey, um, this is kind of a veer,

00:24:06.170 --> 00:24:07.890
but since an early theme there was books were

00:24:07.890 --> 00:24:09.970
recommended. I'm reminded that I think today

00:24:09.970 --> 00:24:13.490
or yesterday, Dr. Jared Moore's new book, I think

00:24:13.490 --> 00:24:17.309
it's 33 Days to Freedom from Lust came out. And

00:24:17.309 --> 00:24:21.269
I'm very optimistic about that book. Jared was

00:24:21.269 --> 00:24:23.490
one of the first people who are willing to point

00:24:23.490 --> 00:24:28.230
out in public the obvious deception of the sexual

00:24:28.230 --> 00:24:32.750
ethics that dominated evangelicalism for maybe

00:24:32.750 --> 00:24:36.490
eight to 10 years from the 2010s to the 2020s

00:24:36.490 --> 00:24:39.609
where aberrant sexuality was treated as some

00:24:39.609 --> 00:24:43.319
sort of warping of good instincts like friendship

00:24:43.319 --> 00:24:45.819
and whatnot. He was one of the first to point

00:24:45.819 --> 00:24:49.339
out the destructive consequences in advance that

00:24:49.339 --> 00:24:52.660
we've now seen come to pass because of warped

00:24:52.660 --> 00:24:55.700
quote unquote ministries like Sam Albury's. And

00:24:55.700 --> 00:24:59.420
he's now moved on from sort of taking that lie

00:24:59.420 --> 00:25:04.680
down in his previous book. The lust of the flesh.

00:25:04.700 --> 00:25:07.160
The lust of the flesh. He dismantled that and

00:25:07.160 --> 00:25:09.000
showed it to be inconsistent with both scripture

00:25:09.000 --> 00:25:11.319
and the Christian tradition, the Protestant Christian

00:25:11.319 --> 00:25:16.240
tradition. Now he's offering people a way out.

00:25:16.599 --> 00:25:20.920
And I'm hoping to publish a long review on it,

00:25:20.920 --> 00:25:24.119
but it's the best thing on the topic. Oh, you've

00:25:24.119 --> 00:25:26.740
read it already? Yeah. He gave me an advance

00:25:26.740 --> 00:25:27.960
copy. He gave you an advance copy. Who's the

00:25:27.960 --> 00:25:31.019
elite now? Yeah. The guy I went to grade school

00:25:31.019 --> 00:25:34.420
with. But anyway, I thought Lost of the Flesh

00:25:34.420 --> 00:25:37.039
was probably the best book published in Evangelicalism

00:25:37.039 --> 00:25:40.420
the year it came out. This is a book that I plan

00:25:40.420 --> 00:25:44.140
to give out like Johnny Appleseed. And it's the

00:25:44.140 --> 00:25:45.900
first in a series that's planned, I believe.

00:25:46.039 --> 00:25:48.400
And I don't know what the approach is. I assume

00:25:48.400 --> 00:25:50.180
it's going to be something similar, like 33 Days

00:25:50.180 --> 00:25:53.819
to Freedom from maybe another sin. Is that the

00:25:53.819 --> 00:25:55.000
idea? Yeah, I think he's trying to do a kind

00:25:55.000 --> 00:25:57.799
of a practical sanctification, which is surprisingly

00:25:58.240 --> 00:26:00.880
At one point I'd read someone say the best book

00:26:00.880 --> 00:26:02.960
on sanctification that evangelicals have ever

00:26:02.960 --> 00:26:06.779
written is Bunyan's Pilgrim's Progress. There's

00:26:06.779 --> 00:26:09.359
now been a book written called The Unending Journey,

00:26:09.380 --> 00:26:11.779
I think, is a practical book on sanctification

00:26:11.779 --> 00:26:14.400
that is probably the second best since Bunyan.

00:26:14.740 --> 00:26:17.619
I'm hoping Jared will do a series on this. And

00:26:17.619 --> 00:26:19.559
just to kind of whet your appetite too, friends,

00:26:20.079 --> 00:26:23.740
he has amazing returns on what he's doing in

00:26:23.740 --> 00:26:27.039
the book before through his private ministry.

00:26:27.880 --> 00:26:30.140
I know a story that I think is pretty widely

00:26:30.140 --> 00:26:31.920
published to this point of a young man who thought

00:26:31.920 --> 00:26:35.480
he was transgendered, began reading Jared's material,

00:26:35.839 --> 00:26:39.440
repented of that, ran into Sam Alberry's material

00:26:39.440 --> 00:26:42.279
and thought maybe he was wrong to listen to Jared,

00:26:42.900 --> 00:26:45.319
but eventually the Spirit of God won out and

00:26:45.319 --> 00:26:46.859
I think he's happily married and maybe with a

00:26:46.859 --> 00:26:49.059
kid now. Yeah, praise God. Yeah, Jared related

00:26:49.059 --> 00:26:51.700
a few stories last night talking about this very

00:26:51.700 --> 00:26:55.849
issue of He got to save the date for a young

00:26:55.849 --> 00:26:58.910
man who's now getting engaged to a woman who

00:26:58.910 --> 00:27:02.029
came out of having to repent of homosexuality.

00:27:02.950 --> 00:27:05.769
So anyway, get that book. It's not expensive.

00:27:06.329 --> 00:27:07.730
It's the kind of thing that probably churches

00:27:07.730 --> 00:27:09.329
should have on their table in their four -year.

00:27:10.349 --> 00:27:12.470
Now that might be a good pastoral resource for

00:27:12.470 --> 00:27:14.490
guys that are helping counsel. Absolutely. If

00:27:14.490 --> 00:27:17.230
you're not sure what to say. And I think Jared's

00:27:17.230 --> 00:27:19.190
probably pretty accessible. So if you need to

00:27:19.190 --> 00:27:22.660
follow up with questions, you can find him. That's,

00:27:22.660 --> 00:27:25.740
that's definitely a subject that I don't think

00:27:25.740 --> 00:27:28.380
gets enough attention. And I just, I don't think

00:27:28.380 --> 00:27:32.200
people realize that once you're into that sexual

00:27:32.200 --> 00:27:35.019
sin, that it's not just something you take part

00:27:35.019 --> 00:27:37.420
in, it's something that you're forced to grow

00:27:37.420 --> 00:27:41.220
in. And it like leads to darker and darker places.

00:27:41.480 --> 00:27:43.339
It's like its own kind of dark sanctification

00:27:43.339 --> 00:27:45.779
setting you apart to darkness. Yeah. It's a,

00:27:45.779 --> 00:27:48.500
it's, it's a dehumanizing it more and more makes

00:27:48.500 --> 00:27:51.950
you less human. Whereas. sanctification, of course,

00:27:52.529 --> 00:27:55.690
you dine to sin and grow more and more into Christ's

00:27:55.690 --> 00:27:57.769
righteousness and become more human. Yeah, the

00:27:57.769 --> 00:28:00.930
way humans are meant to be and modeled for us

00:28:00.930 --> 00:28:05.910
in Jesus Christ, the perfect human. All right.

00:28:05.910 --> 00:28:08.630
Shall we move into the meat of the episode? I

00:28:08.630 --> 00:28:10.829
think so. Okay. I'm going to ask this question

00:28:10.829 --> 00:28:14.589
and then we'll see what happens next. What are

00:28:14.589 --> 00:28:18.740
conservatives supposed to be conserving? That's

00:28:18.740 --> 00:28:21.900
a great question and it's a great question because

00:28:21.900 --> 00:28:26.140
this is incredibly muddy One of the things I'm

00:28:26.140 --> 00:28:28.619
most depressed about Well two things kind of

00:28:28.619 --> 00:28:31.500
the public around that have depressed me is that

00:28:31.500 --> 00:28:33.319
we continue have this phenomenon of people who

00:28:33.319 --> 00:28:38.099
were very liberal Six years ago, but as the left

00:28:38.099 --> 00:28:40.559
has become more radical They have found themselves

00:28:40.559 --> 00:28:43.019
alienated from the radical left, which is most

00:28:43.019 --> 00:28:45.900
of the left politically in our country And so

00:28:45.900 --> 00:28:48.359
they now identify as conservatives. I've taken

00:28:48.359 --> 00:28:50.960
to calling them less liberals and people like

00:28:50.960 --> 00:28:53.119
James Lindsay, who will talk on social media

00:28:53.119 --> 00:28:56.660
about, um, checking out girls with his lesbian

00:28:56.660 --> 00:28:58.000
daughter. He's supposed to be a conservative

00:28:58.000 --> 00:29:01.579
voice. Right. And an atheist and an open atheist.

00:29:01.920 --> 00:29:04.180
Um, a guy that I once had some hope for, but

00:29:04.180 --> 00:29:07.799
I think, um, there's less hope. Um, and probably

00:29:07.799 --> 00:29:09.859
even more popularly, like, I mean, you could

00:29:09.859 --> 00:29:12.009
probably throw Elon Musk in that basket. Yeah.

00:29:12.109 --> 00:29:15.089
Elon's a less liberal. Jordan Peterson is a less

00:29:15.089 --> 00:29:17.089
liberal, although I think, you know, I'm really

00:29:17.089 --> 00:29:19.349
hopeful for Peterson still. Brett Weinstein.

00:29:19.769 --> 00:29:24.309
Yeah. And so what that's done is just completely

00:29:24.309 --> 00:29:27.329
destroy any real meaning to conservativism at

00:29:27.329 --> 00:29:32.369
the popular level. I also kind of tend to refer

00:29:32.369 --> 00:29:35.869
to these guys as daily wire liberal because their

00:29:35.869 --> 00:29:38.990
vision of a healthy society is Bill Clinton era.

00:29:39.240 --> 00:29:42.119
Yeah. United States. Barbecuing in the backyard.

00:29:42.779 --> 00:29:45.420
Is it Dave Rubin who's in a long -term sodomite

00:29:45.420 --> 00:29:50.279
relationship and they've bought a child to, you

00:29:50.279 --> 00:29:53.680
know, to mock adoption, right? These are supposed

00:29:53.680 --> 00:29:56.299
to be conservatives. Yeah. Go back to Reagan

00:29:56.299 --> 00:30:00.940
era. A return to Reagan era America. Right. But

00:30:00.940 --> 00:30:03.660
I mean, you think about a guy, is it Andrew Clavin

00:30:03.660 --> 00:30:06.519
who's also a long -term homosexual? It's supposed

00:30:06.519 --> 00:30:08.799
to be a dominant voice. It's either Andrew or

00:30:08.799 --> 00:30:10.059
Spencer. I can't remember which one's the dad

00:30:10.059 --> 00:30:12.539
and which one's the kid. I think maybe it's his

00:30:12.539 --> 00:30:14.859
son, but I could be wrong about that. Andrew's

00:30:14.859 --> 00:30:18.420
the dad, so it'd be Spencer. Look, I want the

00:30:18.420 --> 00:30:21.420
best for these people. They shouldn't be a voice

00:30:21.420 --> 00:30:24.559
at the table among conservatives, let alone seen

00:30:24.559 --> 00:30:27.900
as leading lights. And so the idea of conservatives

00:30:27.900 --> 00:30:29.880
figuring out what we're supposed to be conserving

00:30:29.880 --> 00:30:33.140
is, I mean, it's not as important as preaching

00:30:33.140 --> 00:30:36.130
the gospel clearly and authentically. But it's

00:30:36.130 --> 00:30:38.589
at a civic level, maybe the most important question.

00:30:38.769 --> 00:30:42.009
It's like, it's, it's Romans one and you're off

00:30:42.009 --> 00:30:44.730
the page, right? Because there are things in

00:30:44.730 --> 00:30:47.150
our culture that aren't even in Romans one, but

00:30:47.150 --> 00:30:49.750
it's, it's like conserve conservatives. I'm using

00:30:49.750 --> 00:30:52.950
air quotes now want to return to just kind of

00:30:52.950 --> 00:30:56.410
like halfway up the page of Romans one. Instead

00:30:56.410 --> 00:30:58.490
of act, instead of actually repenting of sin.

00:30:58.869 --> 00:31:01.230
Can we take this back to sort of bud form rather

00:31:01.230 --> 00:31:03.250
than full bloom is supposed to be the vision

00:31:03.250 --> 00:31:06.029
of conservativism. That's the daily wire critique

00:31:06.029 --> 00:31:07.569
that I have. It's more of a pruning of the weed.

00:31:07.690 --> 00:31:09.670
Yeah. And less of an uprooting of the weed, I

00:31:09.670 --> 00:31:11.349
guess. And I, I mean, I guess I feel a burden

00:31:11.349 --> 00:31:14.130
to qualify. Like I love Matt Walsh. Megan Basham

00:31:14.130 --> 00:31:16.170
works for daily wire. There, there are elements

00:31:16.170 --> 00:31:19.710
there that I love, but the Shapiros and the Boarings

00:31:19.710 --> 00:31:24.269
and the Clavens and whatnot. It's, it's, uh,

00:31:25.049 --> 00:31:27.730
it's something worse than a red herring. It's

00:31:27.730 --> 00:31:31.950
some kind of, um, very compelling counterfeit.

00:31:32.460 --> 00:31:34.539
That's robbing us of the resources. We need to

00:31:34.539 --> 00:31:38.259
do the actual thing. All right. So daily wire.

00:31:38.440 --> 00:31:41.619
No, we got one. We got one. This is a hell of

00:31:41.619 --> 00:31:46.160
a perimeter. Let me, let me, let me ask it. Let

00:31:46.160 --> 00:31:48.140
me redirect the question a little bit because

00:31:48.140 --> 00:31:50.259
the question of what are we supposed to be conserving

00:31:50.259 --> 00:31:53.519
conserving, um, conserving implies that you're

00:31:53.519 --> 00:31:55.839
holding onto something that has been right. So

00:31:55.839 --> 00:31:58.759
how far back should conservatives be looking

00:31:58.759 --> 00:32:00.279
right? We've just been complaining about these

00:32:00.279 --> 00:32:03.069
guys saying Clinton. Reagan came up a little

00:32:03.069 --> 00:32:10.109
further back in the 80s 70s, 1910, 1776. Where

00:32:10.109 --> 00:32:12.930
are we going? So I think the idea of conservativism

00:32:12.930 --> 00:32:15.950
is that in a fallen world, good things are hard

00:32:15.950 --> 00:32:20.670
to cultivate, excavate and preserve. And so this

00:32:20.670 --> 00:32:24.910
is something like mining, where you're pulling

00:32:24.910 --> 00:32:29.589
resources out that takes an amount of labor and

00:32:29.589 --> 00:32:33.819
work that is I don't know the right word, but

00:32:33.819 --> 00:32:38.680
just strenuous. And so when we pull out artifacts

00:32:38.680 --> 00:32:43.519
that are good, true, beautiful, healthy, that's

00:32:43.519 --> 00:32:46.220
what conservative is ultimately about. So what

00:32:46.220 --> 00:32:48.420
we want to do, I think, is instead of thinking

00:32:48.420 --> 00:32:52.259
of a golden era, I think we should think about

00:32:52.259 --> 00:32:55.819
what have previous generations surfaced that

00:32:55.819 --> 00:32:58.920
are authentically good and how do we maintain

00:32:58.920 --> 00:33:01.980
and carry those things into the future? You can

00:33:01.980 --> 00:33:06.500
imagine a field maybe out in Arkansas where you're

00:33:06.500 --> 00:33:10.140
paying for gyms. Previous generations found certain

00:33:10.140 --> 00:33:12.940
gyms. How do we keep them? How do we bring them

00:33:12.940 --> 00:33:15.819
to bear in our present moment and then hopefully

00:33:15.819 --> 00:33:18.519
find more? Okay. Yeah, that's a good answer.

00:33:19.279 --> 00:33:21.900
The idea of there being a golden age, I think

00:33:21.900 --> 00:33:23.980
that's one of the, as you said, red herrings

00:33:23.980 --> 00:33:26.500
earlier. We need to get back to a certain point.

00:33:27.230 --> 00:33:29.589
Well, no certain point was ever perfect, right?

00:33:29.650 --> 00:33:33.410
Or good enough. I would also say that too. We

00:33:33.410 --> 00:33:36.130
think of progressives as always hungry for more.

00:33:36.609 --> 00:33:38.230
There does need to be something like that on

00:33:38.230 --> 00:33:41.029
the right, where we're consistently saying it's

00:33:41.029 --> 00:33:43.250
just not good enough. We need better. Yeah. It's

00:33:43.250 --> 00:33:46.130
not just trying to hold on to, I think when we

00:33:46.130 --> 00:33:47.869
think of conservatism, we think we're just trying

00:33:47.869 --> 00:33:50.809
to hold on to the things that are good and not

00:33:50.809 --> 00:33:55.200
let them fade away. that kind of implies that

00:33:55.200 --> 00:33:56.859
you don't really have a positive vision for what

00:33:56.859 --> 00:33:59.660
the world should be like. And so conservatives

00:33:59.660 --> 00:34:04.680
really need to, I think, reframe the way they

00:34:04.680 --> 00:34:10.199
speak about things to speak of the world as a

00:34:10.199 --> 00:34:11.719
positive vision. What do you want the world to

00:34:11.719 --> 00:34:14.159
be like that you would live in? And some of that

00:34:14.159 --> 00:34:18.139
will be trying to excavate things, as you said,

00:34:18.199 --> 00:34:22.000
and bring them back. but you can't point to any

00:34:22.000 --> 00:34:25.780
one particular era because They're fallen humans

00:34:25.780 --> 00:34:27.880
in every particular area. And so they're always

00:34:27.880 --> 00:34:31.280
Every age has different cultural sins that it

00:34:31.280 --> 00:34:32.840
that it has to deal with and that's been true

00:34:32.840 --> 00:34:35.719
throughout all of our country's history and and

00:34:35.719 --> 00:34:38.960
so I think you have to What was good from that

00:34:38.960 --> 00:34:41.820
era that we want to that we want to bring back?

00:34:42.539 --> 00:34:45.039
What are things that are totally lost like there

00:34:45.039 --> 00:34:46.659
are some things to hold on to still but there's

00:34:46.659 --> 00:34:51.760
some things are totally lost I heard someone

00:34:51.760 --> 00:34:54.780
say just last night, it's not, are you feminist

00:34:54.780 --> 00:34:56.940
in America? It's just how feminist are you? Because

00:34:56.940 --> 00:35:00.920
it's just the air that we breathe. And we've

00:35:00.920 --> 00:35:05.840
talked about LGBTQ world a little bit and feminism,

00:35:06.079 --> 00:35:08.760
abortion, all these things are attacks on creation.

00:35:09.400 --> 00:35:12.340
And so we're so far gone that fundamentally we

00:35:12.340 --> 00:35:14.059
really need to return to Genesis and say, what

00:35:14.059 --> 00:35:15.739
was the world that God created and what did he

00:35:15.739 --> 00:35:17.559
intend for it to be like? And how do we pursue

00:35:17.559 --> 00:35:21.300
that? Yeah. So Genesis and, uh, the new Jerusalem,

00:35:21.300 --> 00:35:25.039
like those are the, those are the, um, targets.

00:35:25.179 --> 00:35:27.599
Yep. And of course that's the work of Christ

00:35:27.599 --> 00:35:29.440
to bring it past, but he's pleased to work through

00:35:29.440 --> 00:35:31.920
his agents. Yeah. He uses means. Right. He uses

00:35:31.920 --> 00:35:34.780
means. And so nobody here thinks that we're going

00:35:34.780 --> 00:35:36.980
to bring about, uh, the millennium, whatever

00:35:36.980 --> 00:35:39.599
your eschatology is, that's Jesus, his work,

00:35:39.699 --> 00:35:42.460
right? But Jesus does his work through his people.

00:35:42.719 --> 00:35:45.059
And so we have to be giving ourselves to that

00:35:45.059 --> 00:35:49.190
effort. Yeah. And if I may expand on your mining

00:35:49.190 --> 00:35:53.530
analogy, I think there are also new things that

00:35:53.530 --> 00:35:57.590
are being revealed to us that are new targets

00:35:57.590 --> 00:36:02.050
for us. And just to make that analogy, and one

00:36:02.050 --> 00:36:04.750
of the things that I'm studying to do right now,

00:36:05.090 --> 00:36:07.869
I'm looking up some different elements that are

00:36:07.869 --> 00:36:11.769
essential for a manufacturing of a yet to be

00:36:11.769 --> 00:36:14.730
told endeavor of mine. But if you mine zinc,

00:36:14.969 --> 00:36:17.670
Some of the offshoots of that or some of the

00:36:17.670 --> 00:36:22.530
waste are like gallium and indium. Those elements

00:36:22.530 --> 00:36:25.909
are gathered from the waste of zinc mining that

00:36:25.909 --> 00:36:29.650
previously had no use for anybody. Nobody even

00:36:29.650 --> 00:36:32.010
knew about them. So that's new things that are

00:36:32.010 --> 00:36:36.710
being revealed and new targets that I think have

00:36:36.710 --> 00:36:40.769
been presented to us, new targets to hit. Yeah.

00:36:40.769 --> 00:36:42.590
Well, you know infinitely more about that than

00:36:42.590 --> 00:36:45.179
I do, Jason, but I feel like I have to just affirm

00:36:45.179 --> 00:36:48.519
what you're saying because that assumes that

00:36:48.519 --> 00:36:50.579
the Lord has a future for the people who dwell

00:36:50.579 --> 00:36:53.800
on this earth and that the resources that he

00:36:53.800 --> 00:36:57.960
built into the creation like gallium have some

00:36:57.960 --> 00:37:01.260
creational purpose that he intended mankind to

00:37:01.260 --> 00:37:04.619
discover and utilize for his glory. And so, I

00:37:04.619 --> 00:37:08.400
can't talk about that specific, but in principle,

00:37:08.699 --> 00:37:11.119
I assume that that is right. And that we should,

00:37:11.139 --> 00:37:13.119
it goes back to Nick's idea of a positive vision

00:37:13.119 --> 00:37:15.940
for conservatives. We need to take ground and

00:37:15.940 --> 00:37:19.440
maybe it's, uh, through implementation of underutilized

00:37:19.440 --> 00:37:22.900
elements. Sure. All right. So practically speaking,

00:37:23.619 --> 00:37:26.420
where could a listener go to find where good

00:37:26.420 --> 00:37:29.300
work is being done in the minds? Like who's,

00:37:29.400 --> 00:37:32.219
who's doing this stuff? That's a good question.

00:37:32.280 --> 00:37:34.039
Some of this could not, I mean, maybe it's the

00:37:34.039 --> 00:37:36.639
preservative stuff. Like we have. I'll just start

00:37:36.639 --> 00:37:38.400
with American Reformer, because that's who I'm

00:37:38.400 --> 00:37:41.260
affiliated with. But their goal is to reinvigorate

00:37:41.260 --> 00:37:43.739
American Protestant civic and social thought.

00:37:44.420 --> 00:37:49.159
And so they're going to forgotten sources of

00:37:49.159 --> 00:37:50.880
Protestant thinkers who have answered a lot of

00:37:50.880 --> 00:37:52.599
the questions that people are having right now.

00:37:52.639 --> 00:37:54.619
And they've just been shelved and forgotten about.

00:37:55.159 --> 00:37:57.460
And when COVID came through, everybody suddenly

00:37:57.460 --> 00:37:59.039
panicked and was like, we don't have a political

00:37:59.039 --> 00:38:02.409
theology. So everyone started looking for these

00:38:02.409 --> 00:38:04.110
things and there was a handful of experts that

00:38:04.110 --> 00:38:06.190
were kind of niche experts that were like let's

00:38:06.190 --> 00:38:08.469
start let's start a blog basically or journal

00:38:08.469 --> 00:38:12.789
and So they're they're going through the shelves

00:38:12.789 --> 00:38:14.730
blowing the dust off of stuff that has been on

00:38:14.730 --> 00:38:16.690
that has already been mined out of the ground

00:38:16.690 --> 00:38:20.309
for us But I don't know what who else what else

00:38:20.309 --> 00:38:23.190
where people finding things that are I think

00:38:23.190 --> 00:38:25.670
if we were conservatives at work I guess if you're

00:38:25.670 --> 00:38:29.329
thinking about You know, I brought up feminism

00:38:30.059 --> 00:38:34.460
And if you read scripture, it's super obvious

00:38:34.460 --> 00:38:37.980
that, um, God made men and women differently

00:38:37.980 --> 00:38:40.559
and he made them to do different things or equal

00:38:40.559 --> 00:38:43.039
and dignity, dignity, but men are made to lead

00:38:43.039 --> 00:38:46.780
and to rule and women were created to help. And

00:38:46.780 --> 00:38:49.039
we just don't really have categories for that

00:38:49.039 --> 00:38:51.880
at all. Um, and so there's a couple of books

00:38:51.880 --> 00:38:56.019
by a teaching elder in the PCA. Sorry, that's

00:38:56.019 --> 00:38:57.909
a second. Presbyterian. If you're going to talk

00:38:57.909 --> 00:39:00.309
about Zach Garis, that was who I went to talk

00:39:00.309 --> 00:39:03.530
about Zach Garis. So Zach Garis is a, is a teaching

00:39:03.530 --> 00:39:05.710
elder in the PCA and he has a book called masculine

00:39:05.710 --> 00:39:09.809
Christianity, um, which really is just him walking

00:39:09.809 --> 00:39:13.769
through all the scriptures and, um, doing it's,

00:39:13.769 --> 00:39:15.750
it's very pastoral. He's doing pastoral work

00:39:15.750 --> 00:39:19.289
to look at what, what do these texts, um, say

00:39:19.289 --> 00:39:22.809
about men and women. And, um, so he's looking

00:39:22.809 --> 00:39:24.530
at the scriptures. He has a kind of a follow

00:39:24.530 --> 00:39:28.059
-up to that called honor thy fathers. which is

00:39:28.059 --> 00:39:30.360
not particularly looking at the scriptures, but

00:39:30.360 --> 00:39:33.079
looking at the same topic on men and women and

00:39:33.079 --> 00:39:38.320
what the Orthodox Reformed, the Reformers, and

00:39:38.320 --> 00:39:42.460
some of the later Reformers like the Westminster

00:39:42.460 --> 00:39:46.599
Assembly had to say kind of their commentary

00:39:46.599 --> 00:39:49.000
on the scriptures and what they have to say about

00:39:49.000 --> 00:39:51.019
men and women. And so if you were wondering,

00:39:51.380 --> 00:39:54.010
what should I believe about men and women? I

00:39:54.010 --> 00:39:56.050
would point you to those two sources and they'll

00:39:56.050 --> 00:40:01.230
point you back to Scripture. Well, so Gersh is

00:40:01.230 --> 00:40:05.030
where I was going to pretty quickly. Michael

00:40:05.030 --> 00:40:07.630
Clary is a pastor in the Cincinnati area. Michael

00:40:07.630 --> 00:40:09.210
Foster is also in the area. He's done a lot of

00:40:09.210 --> 00:40:11.150
work on sort of the same area. It's good to be

00:40:11.150 --> 00:40:13.909
a man. He's done good there too. Michael Clary

00:40:13.909 --> 00:40:16.530
wrote a book called God's Good Design for men

00:40:16.530 --> 00:40:19.650
and women for households. There's a guy named

00:40:19.650 --> 00:40:22.690
CR Wiley who's writing on households masculinity.

00:40:22.769 --> 00:40:24.789
That's very helpful. And he has a book that's

00:40:24.789 --> 00:40:27.949
been around for quite a while called Man of the

00:40:27.949 --> 00:40:30.369
house and the house. Yeah. Yeah, that's another

00:40:30.369 --> 00:40:34.929
book I give out now It's interesting to me I

00:40:34.929 --> 00:40:36.670
mean Terry went to American reform, which is

00:40:36.670 --> 00:40:40.550
true Civic thought needs to be developed but

00:40:40.550 --> 00:40:42.889
to your point about feminism being the air that

00:40:42.889 --> 00:40:47.159
we breathe now it really does my my mind immediately

00:40:47.159 --> 00:40:50.059
goes to people who are bringing clarity to the

00:40:50.059 --> 00:40:52.719
topic of what has God purposed these genders

00:40:52.719 --> 00:40:57.460
to do. Because feminism has not just muddied

00:40:57.460 --> 00:41:01.280
the waters, it's almost completely obscured.

00:41:01.820 --> 00:41:03.260
It's poisoned the water to the point where you

00:41:03.260 --> 00:41:07.599
can't hardly drink of it. It's such a dominant

00:41:07.599 --> 00:41:09.320
influence on our society that it is something

00:41:09.320 --> 00:41:13.489
like asking a fish to consider wetness. And so

00:41:13.489 --> 00:41:15.590
these guys, Jared Moore is another one. These

00:41:15.590 --> 00:41:18.369
guys who are stepping out and saying, actually,

00:41:18.429 --> 00:41:21.130
Scripture is pretty clear on this, and we don't

00:41:21.130 --> 00:41:24.750
have to pretend like it's ambiguous. Those are

00:41:24.750 --> 00:41:27.829
where my mind goes immediately. So, Garris, Clary,

00:41:28.750 --> 00:41:33.070
Moore. Just to throw something else into the

00:41:33.070 --> 00:41:38.329
hopper, Terry and Nick have a real expertise

00:41:38.329 --> 00:41:41.369
in classical Christian education. everybody around

00:41:41.369 --> 00:41:45.650
this table has suffered within classical Christian

00:41:45.650 --> 00:41:51.250
education for trying to just be, to just own

00:41:51.250 --> 00:41:53.769
what's normal on these very topics we're talking

00:41:53.769 --> 00:41:56.809
about. Classical Christian education is a good

00:41:56.809 --> 00:42:01.030
endeavor to recover the idea that education is

00:42:01.030 --> 00:42:04.269
discipleship. And so, we want to have the best

00:42:04.269 --> 00:42:07.349
form of it, right? And what we talked about,

00:42:07.349 --> 00:42:09.519
what's true, good, and beautiful? Well, the best

00:42:09.519 --> 00:42:11.340
form of it, the most true, good and beautiful

00:42:11.340 --> 00:42:13.079
form of that we've encountered yet is classical

00:42:13.079 --> 00:42:16.760
Christian education. And so the group, the various

00:42:16.760 --> 00:42:19.559
groups that are working on that are very important

00:42:19.559 --> 00:42:22.320
to the future of our country, if Jesus tarries.

00:42:22.539 --> 00:42:26.679
But beyond that, to the kingdom. And it's gotten

00:42:26.679 --> 00:42:29.780
to a point of significance now that it is the

00:42:29.780 --> 00:42:32.199
target of intentional efforts to subvert it and

00:42:32.199 --> 00:42:34.719
to cut the legs out from under it, which is kind

00:42:34.719 --> 00:42:38.329
of part of what we suffered as well. And so We've

00:42:38.329 --> 00:42:40.210
got American Reformer on the list. We've got

00:42:40.210 --> 00:42:45.269
Garris, Clary, Foster more on recovering God's

00:42:45.269 --> 00:42:48.030
design for man and woman. And you've got classical

00:42:48.030 --> 00:42:51.610
Christian education as a kind of a comprehensive

00:42:51.610 --> 00:42:55.269
framework for raising a new generation that will

00:42:55.269 --> 00:42:56.969
have a much better understanding of these things.

00:42:57.250 --> 00:42:59.690
Yeah, I would point to the association of classical

00:42:59.690 --> 00:43:02.989
Christian schools specifically as something to

00:43:02.989 --> 00:43:04.969
look for if you're interested in the education

00:43:04.969 --> 00:43:08.369
component, because there's others that are Classical

00:43:08.369 --> 00:43:10.730
and I don't either don't know him well or don't

00:43:10.730 --> 00:43:13.469
entirely trust him. So yeah something that kind

00:43:13.469 --> 00:43:17.329
of In a way, you know at a very broad level sums

00:43:17.329 --> 00:43:19.969
up all of those things as well Is that the work

00:43:19.969 --> 00:43:21.989
of American reformer? What's what's that Gers

00:43:21.989 --> 00:43:28.070
has done? with speaking about feminism and patriarchy

00:43:28.070 --> 00:43:32.559
and what the ACCS has done. I heard the president

00:43:32.559 --> 00:43:35.280
of ACCS, David Goodwin, say one time, classical

00:43:35.280 --> 00:43:37.400
Christian education doesn't change, but our discovery

00:43:37.400 --> 00:43:43.260
of it is growing. Because the classical Christian

00:43:43.260 --> 00:43:45.739
education movement started because of Dorothy

00:43:45.739 --> 00:43:49.059
Sayers' essay, The Lost Tools of Learning. And

00:43:49.059 --> 00:43:51.360
in it, she references this medieval way of doing

00:43:51.360 --> 00:43:55.500
education. And so in the late 70s, early 80s,

00:43:55.519 --> 00:43:57.860
You know, Doug Wilson, a couple other places.

00:43:58.000 --> 00:43:59.760
There's actually about three places in America.

00:44:00.219 --> 00:44:02.619
This is how I believe that we providentially

00:44:02.619 --> 00:44:04.880
know that the Lord was doing a work there is

00:44:04.880 --> 00:44:08.059
because there's three different places, totally

00:44:08.059 --> 00:44:10.739
unrelated in America that all started classical

00:44:10.739 --> 00:44:12.539
Christian schools within about a three or four

00:44:12.539 --> 00:44:14.099
year stretch of each other and didn't know about

00:44:14.099 --> 00:44:16.739
each other. And so they're all trying to, they

00:44:16.739 --> 00:44:19.019
all found this essay. They're all trying to recover

00:44:19.019 --> 00:44:22.579
what is this medieval way of teaching. And so

00:44:22.579 --> 00:44:25.469
now that it's been, you know, 50 years, the more

00:44:25.469 --> 00:44:27.030
we've read the medieval as we started reading

00:44:27.030 --> 00:44:29.429
the ancients, of course, our discovery of that

00:44:29.429 --> 00:44:32.050
changes. It's the same way with political thought,

00:44:32.269 --> 00:44:35.150
trying to read the reformers and what they say

00:44:35.150 --> 00:44:38.170
about men and women in scripture. It's going

00:44:38.170 --> 00:44:40.769
back to the sources. So it's the Latin term ad

00:44:40.769 --> 00:44:45.130
fontes, going to the source, I think is just

00:44:45.130 --> 00:44:46.610
generally a helpful principle. I mean, I know

00:44:46.610 --> 00:44:49.349
we've been giving sources to go to, but for everybody

00:44:49.349 --> 00:44:52.090
also to just do their own reading by going back

00:44:52.090 --> 00:44:55.179
to as many of the original sources, as they possibly

00:44:55.179 --> 00:44:59.400
can. I think that I would make the argument that,

00:44:59.400 --> 00:45:03.300
you know, even our reform documents speak of

00:45:03.300 --> 00:45:06.099
the Fifth Commandment in this way. So the Fifth

00:45:06.099 --> 00:45:07.380
Commandment is to honor your father and your

00:45:07.380 --> 00:45:11.599
mother. And the Westminster Larger Catechism

00:45:11.599 --> 00:45:16.239
says something like, well, I actually think I

00:45:16.239 --> 00:45:18.340
have it pulled up. So let me just read it to

00:45:18.340 --> 00:45:22.619
you. This is a question. 123 says, what is the

00:45:22.619 --> 00:45:24.099
fifth commandment? The fifth commandment is to

00:45:24.099 --> 00:45:25.699
honor your father and your mother. Your days

00:45:25.699 --> 00:45:27.940
may be long upon the land the Lord's given you.

00:45:28.300 --> 00:45:30.559
And question 124 is, who are meant by father

00:45:30.559 --> 00:45:32.579
and mother in the fifth commandment? And the

00:45:32.579 --> 00:45:34.300
answer is, by father and mother in the fifth

00:45:34.300 --> 00:45:37.000
commandment are meant not only natural parents,

00:45:37.460 --> 00:45:41.079
but all superiors in age and gifts, and especially

00:45:41.079 --> 00:45:44.659
such as, by God's ordinance, are over us in place

00:45:44.659 --> 00:45:47.280
of authority, whether in family, church, or commonwealth.

00:45:48.650 --> 00:45:50.530
thinking about people that are in authority over

00:45:50.530 --> 00:45:54.110
you has to extend to past generations. And so

00:45:54.110 --> 00:45:56.869
a recovery and an honoring, really what we're

00:45:56.869 --> 00:45:59.409
talking about is piety, not piety in the popular

00:45:59.409 --> 00:46:02.190
way we think about it, but piety in the way that

00:46:02.190 --> 00:46:03.909
pretty much all Christians would have understood

00:46:03.909 --> 00:46:07.789
piety until about 10 minutes ago, is an honoring

00:46:07.789 --> 00:46:10.289
of your authorities over you. And that would

00:46:10.289 --> 00:46:14.889
extend to your historical authorities, your fathers

00:46:14.889 --> 00:46:17.630
and brothers and mothers, and sisters who came

00:46:17.630 --> 00:46:21.210
before you who have things to offer to you. And

00:46:21.210 --> 00:46:23.010
so I think American reformers doing that with

00:46:23.010 --> 00:46:25.809
political theology. I think Zach Garris has been

00:46:25.809 --> 00:46:28.489
doing that. ACCS has been doing that. So just

00:46:28.489 --> 00:46:31.590
generally an encouragement to people to dive

00:46:31.590 --> 00:46:33.869
back into, go as far back as you can. I mean,

00:46:33.909 --> 00:46:36.929
even the project of the reformers was of course

00:46:36.929 --> 00:46:40.590
to recover the scriptures. But if you read Calvin

00:46:40.590 --> 00:46:42.909
and Luther, they're talking about the church

00:46:42.909 --> 00:46:45.469
fathers. How did the first few generations of

00:46:45.469 --> 00:46:48.210
Christians understand the scriptures? You know,

00:46:48.349 --> 00:46:50.070
it's they're reading Augustine, they're reading

00:46:50.070 --> 00:46:52.909
John Chrysostom, you know. It is, of course,

00:46:53.369 --> 00:46:56.070
ultimately a project about understanding the

00:46:56.070 --> 00:46:58.969
scriptures, but also what are our fathers that

00:46:58.969 --> 00:47:01.539
are worth honoring? believe about these things.

00:47:01.579 --> 00:47:03.800
Well, it's an ongoing project, right? So we talk

00:47:03.800 --> 00:47:06.340
about simple referenda, right? Which is how you

00:47:06.340 --> 00:47:09.159
got Baptist from the Reformation tradition. I

00:47:09.159 --> 00:47:11.840
knew we couldn't escape without that. But that

00:47:11.840 --> 00:47:14.699
noted, you know, I went to that mind analogy

00:47:14.699 --> 00:47:17.300
earlier, but probably family is the better one.

00:47:18.019 --> 00:47:22.780
So like with my family, I grew up in a family

00:47:22.780 --> 00:47:24.980
that was pretty tight knit. I didn't understand

00:47:24.980 --> 00:47:26.840
at the time, but it was uniquely tight knit.

00:47:27.340 --> 00:47:29.760
Everyone in the family had something good to

00:47:29.760 --> 00:47:32.099
say about Jesus. Jesus was held in high regard,

00:47:32.119 --> 00:47:34.079
even those who weren't practicing their faith

00:47:34.079 --> 00:47:37.579
held Jesus in high regard. Well, I was never

00:47:37.579 --> 00:47:43.139
catechized, right? We went to church, but I was

00:47:43.139 --> 00:47:44.760
never catechized. And so one of the things I

00:47:44.760 --> 00:47:47.079
can do in sort of that, what did one generation

00:47:47.079 --> 00:47:49.599
surface that's helpful? How do we carry it forward?

00:47:50.139 --> 00:47:51.860
Well, I was given a high view of Christ, thank

00:47:51.860 --> 00:47:55.050
God. I was given a high view of God's Word. And

00:47:55.050 --> 00:47:56.969
the appropriate way for me to carry that forward

00:47:56.969 --> 00:47:59.809
is to catechize my children and be intentional

00:47:59.809 --> 00:48:02.489
about kind of the spiritual disciplines that

00:48:02.489 --> 00:48:06.210
my family did not necessarily lead me in. I can

00:48:06.210 --> 00:48:08.150
do that with my children. And so you're hopefully

00:48:08.150 --> 00:48:09.610
building from strength to strength. You're taking

00:48:09.610 --> 00:48:12.309
something good and building upon it even better.

00:48:13.110 --> 00:48:15.849
Yeah. Can I play devil's advocate for just a

00:48:15.849 --> 00:48:18.329
minute? I'm already antagonizing Nick about the

00:48:18.329 --> 00:48:22.489
Baptist. No. Okay. So let's go to some bigger

00:48:22.489 --> 00:48:25.230
organizations and we get your opinions about

00:48:25.230 --> 00:48:28.690
them. So turning point. Yeah. I'm really thankful

00:48:28.690 --> 00:48:32.630
for turning point and they're not just in a,

00:48:32.630 --> 00:48:34.489
they're not just in a crisis because of Charlie

00:48:34.489 --> 00:48:39.070
Kirk's assassination, but you know, there's their

00:48:39.070 --> 00:48:43.110
significance is so clear to everybody now that

00:48:43.110 --> 00:48:46.239
there's multiple, uh, factions. jockeying to

00:48:46.239 --> 00:48:47.860
be the inheritor of Charlie Kirk. And the sharks

00:48:47.860 --> 00:48:50.900
are in the water. And so I'm thankful for turning

00:48:50.900 --> 00:48:54.360
point. Um, and I think we should pray for turning

00:48:54.360 --> 00:48:57.539
point because they are in a, they are in a crisis

00:48:57.539 --> 00:48:59.480
situation. Well, I can tell you from speaking

00:48:59.480 --> 00:49:02.219
to people at turning point, actually that there,

00:49:02.219 --> 00:49:03.820
you know, there's different kind of divisions,

00:49:03.820 --> 00:49:05.980
right? So they've got turning point faith, turning

00:49:05.980 --> 00:49:09.199
point, maybe action. I know those two. Uh, and

00:49:09.199 --> 00:49:11.400
then there's turning point education. And I spoke

00:49:11.400 --> 00:49:14.900
to a guy at turning point education. Um, And

00:49:14.900 --> 00:49:17.719
he was, that conversation went really well and

00:49:17.719 --> 00:49:21.800
he said that we're actually moving more, the

00:49:21.800 --> 00:49:23.599
term doesn't seem to apply greatly here, but

00:49:23.599 --> 00:49:26.079
we're moving more conservative. Our statement

00:49:26.079 --> 00:49:28.900
of faith is about to be altered to become a explicitly

00:49:28.900 --> 00:49:30.920
Protestant one. We're not gonna exclude Catholics

00:49:30.920 --> 00:49:32.820
from joining us, but they've got to just kind

00:49:32.820 --> 00:49:34.880
of deal with the fact that this is a Protestant

00:49:34.880 --> 00:49:39.320
thing. They want to see it move in that direction.

00:49:40.429 --> 00:49:42.969
You know, I've heard from other places that Turning

00:49:42.969 --> 00:49:45.369
Point faith is not moving in a good direction.

00:49:46.190 --> 00:49:48.389
Well, I think Charlie Kirk's wife is Catholic,

00:49:48.530 --> 00:49:52.710
isn't she? I believe that's right. So, you know,

00:49:52.710 --> 00:49:54.929
we'll see. But clearly there's multiple interests.

00:49:54.949 --> 00:49:56.889
It's a large group. They've got a large donor

00:49:56.889 --> 00:50:00.530
base. They've got a lot of money, and that's

00:50:00.530 --> 00:50:04.050
going to bring people with dubious intentions.

00:50:04.269 --> 00:50:06.449
So they do need prayer. But at the moment, if

00:50:06.449 --> 00:50:08.849
you're just asking for my review of Turning Point,

00:50:08.909 --> 00:50:11.559
I think they're a good organization. Yeah, I

00:50:11.559 --> 00:50:16.739
think so too. Next would be like World Outreach

00:50:16.739 --> 00:50:20.940
Church, Alan Jackson. Just I'm not familiar enough

00:50:20.940 --> 00:50:23.380
to comment. I'd love to hear your thoughts. Well,

00:50:23.380 --> 00:50:27.719
I mean, he has every year a big conference called

00:50:27.719 --> 00:50:30.440
Culture and Christianity, and he highlights a

00:50:30.440 --> 00:50:33.360
lot of the issues that the church is dealing

00:50:33.360 --> 00:50:38.019
with. Charlie Kirk was slated to be there again.

00:50:38.199 --> 00:50:41.739
Um, lots of, lots of relevant speakers. So I

00:50:41.739 --> 00:50:44.599
think that's worth checking out world outreach.

00:50:44.599 --> 00:50:48.239
That's in Murfreesboro, Tennessee. Okay. Um,

00:50:48.340 --> 00:50:53.159
Canon plus, which is, uh, or just Canon, Canon

00:50:53.159 --> 00:50:55.780
in general. So Canon is kind of part of the larger,

00:50:55.860 --> 00:50:58.960
the Idaho, the Moscow, Idaho crowd, which gave

00:50:58.960 --> 00:51:01.059
us, if everybody doesn't know, kind of gave us

00:51:01.059 --> 00:51:03.739
one of the three centers of, uh, the recovery

00:51:03.739 --> 00:51:05.739
of classical Christian education. Nick was talking

00:51:05.739 --> 00:51:08.940
about earlier and the most prominent one. Yeah,

00:51:09.500 --> 00:51:14.559
so thoughts on Canon and and and its corollaries

00:51:14.559 --> 00:51:17.659
Yeah, I'm generally thankful for Canon now Just

00:51:17.659 --> 00:51:19.579
in full transparency. I think some of the guys

00:51:19.579 --> 00:51:21.880
in this room have heard me say that I have familial

00:51:21.880 --> 00:51:24.539
disagreements with them Yeah, there are times

00:51:24.539 --> 00:51:27.659
where I feel like They're the crazy uncle at

00:51:27.659 --> 00:51:30.579
the party and then at the family reunion and

00:51:30.579 --> 00:51:31.719
there are the times where I'm like, that's the

00:51:31.719 --> 00:51:36.739
most venerated Uncle at the get -together And

00:51:36.739 --> 00:51:38.420
I'm in this spot. I mean, you can just understand

00:51:38.420 --> 00:51:40.780
there are people who I think criticize them from

00:51:40.780 --> 00:51:42.800
within the family that have valid critiques.

00:51:43.500 --> 00:51:46.099
Um, but anytime somebody criticizes them from

00:51:46.099 --> 00:51:48.039
outside, I'm like, well, let's get our shotguns

00:51:48.039 --> 00:51:51.260
and let's go, you know, how dare you. Um, very,

00:51:51.739 --> 00:51:58.019
yeah. And so generally very thankful for Canon.

00:51:58.139 --> 00:51:59.699
I, you know, if I had the screwdriver, I would

00:51:59.699 --> 00:52:01.519
tighten some of the screws here and there in

00:52:01.519 --> 00:52:03.940
different ways. But I'm generally very thankful

00:52:03.940 --> 00:52:06.360
for them. And so Canon Plus is sort of the way

00:52:06.360 --> 00:52:08.280
that you can easily access it online, right?

00:52:08.500 --> 00:52:11.000
Virtually all their content, I think. And I would

00:52:11.000 --> 00:52:13.519
kind of echo that sentiment. I'm broadly in agreement

00:52:13.519 --> 00:52:15.599
with them. There's a few details that I'm not

00:52:15.599 --> 00:52:18.300
thrilled about, but I hope that their project

00:52:18.300 --> 00:52:21.579
continues to enjoy success. Yeah, and Canon Plus,

00:52:21.920 --> 00:52:24.940
if you have a family, I think is a really great

00:52:24.940 --> 00:52:29.039
tool. I know our family has, in seasons, had

00:52:29.039 --> 00:52:32.280
Canon Plus. There's lots of great content for

00:52:32.280 --> 00:52:35.460
children on there. You know, there's cartoons

00:52:35.460 --> 00:52:39.300
and there's really thoughtful children's stories.

00:52:41.119 --> 00:52:44.699
And, you know, Nate Wilson, whose pen name is

00:52:44.699 --> 00:52:48.000
Indy Wilson, has the Stories are Soul Food podcast,

00:52:48.139 --> 00:52:51.920
and that's a really helpful place if you're a

00:52:51.920 --> 00:52:53.239
parent and you're trying to think about what

00:52:53.239 --> 00:52:57.019
kind of stories do I give my kids. I think that's

00:52:57.019 --> 00:52:59.800
a really good resource, you know, there. And

00:52:59.800 --> 00:53:01.599
they've got kind of something for everybody really

00:53:01.599 --> 00:53:03.840
yeah, you got they've got parenting books. They've

00:53:03.840 --> 00:53:06.579
got marriage books. They've got My wife has a

00:53:06.579 --> 00:53:08.639
story a wife has a cookbook from them. Okay.

00:53:08.639 --> 00:53:11.039
Yeah. Yeah I've made a recipe from their cookbook

00:53:11.039 --> 00:53:16.119
that you turned my attention to So with the Canon

00:53:16.119 --> 00:53:20.260
thing as well Narrative is one of those deals

00:53:20.260 --> 00:53:22.099
that hopefully most people listen to this already

00:53:22.099 --> 00:53:24.300
understand how important that is for children

00:53:24.300 --> 00:53:26.840
You probably wouldn't expect me to positively

00:53:26.840 --> 00:53:31.309
quote Karen swallow prior On this podcast, she

00:53:31.309 --> 00:53:33.550
has a book called, she was next on his list.

00:53:33.849 --> 00:53:35.789
Officially in waters that I did not expect. I

00:53:35.789 --> 00:53:39.150
am now in daily wire territory. Um, but she made

00:53:39.150 --> 00:53:41.389
a very good point in the book. I wouldn't recommend

00:53:41.389 --> 00:53:43.530
much of what she puts into the public sphere,

00:53:43.530 --> 00:53:45.809
but in the book, she said that stories allow

00:53:45.809 --> 00:53:49.849
us to enter into, um, situations that, uh, we

00:53:49.849 --> 00:53:52.929
wouldn't, uh, we wouldn't know how to face in

00:53:52.929 --> 00:53:56.800
the moment of crisis. So stories give us an early

00:53:56.800 --> 00:53:59.679
opportunity to workshop those things. And to

00:53:59.679 --> 00:54:01.880
go back to your point about biographies, Terry,

00:54:02.179 --> 00:54:04.800
biographies are a better version of that. Right.

00:54:05.739 --> 00:54:07.059
And so people who have actually lived through

00:54:07.059 --> 00:54:10.719
those crises. So I want my kids knowing the story

00:54:10.719 --> 00:54:13.900
of Edmund being tempted by the white witch. And

00:54:13.900 --> 00:54:16.519
I also want them to know the story of Skanderberg

00:54:16.519 --> 00:54:21.219
trying to save his ancestral land from an invading

00:54:21.219 --> 00:54:24.090
force and having to Not just fight the invading

00:54:24.090 --> 00:54:26.349
force, but the betrayers who should be aligned

00:54:26.349 --> 00:54:29.670
with him. Yeah. And it gives me a clarity at

00:54:29.670 --> 00:54:32.210
a distance. It, you know, Scanderberg's choices

00:54:32.210 --> 00:54:35.889
can't affect me directly or immediately Edmonds

00:54:35.889 --> 00:54:39.349
definitely can't, but it teaches me how to anticipate

00:54:39.349 --> 00:54:44.030
those things. And you want your children weaned

00:54:44.030 --> 00:54:46.630
on the right kind of stories. Yeah. That's, that's

00:54:46.630 --> 00:54:50.389
really helpful because. Autobiographies are.

00:54:50.960 --> 00:54:53.059
Biographies and autobiographies are history.

00:54:53.760 --> 00:54:55.840
Which is the greatest story. Which is the greatest

00:54:55.840 --> 00:54:58.960
story. And we are often told that the reason

00:54:58.960 --> 00:55:01.380
why you would study history is so you're not

00:55:01.380 --> 00:55:03.679
doomed to repeat the mistakes of the past. Which

00:55:03.679 --> 00:55:06.139
is true. There are vices that you read about

00:55:06.139 --> 00:55:09.460
in history that you want to avoid. But it's also

00:55:09.460 --> 00:55:12.840
the opposite. There are also men and women that

00:55:12.840 --> 00:55:15.340
are virtuous, that are worth emulating. And we

00:55:15.340 --> 00:55:17.449
want to read about their stories. And I think

00:55:17.449 --> 00:55:19.630
that's why the culture is so adamant about tearing

00:55:19.630 --> 00:55:24.909
down history and heroes, right? This is why George

00:55:24.909 --> 00:55:27.590
Washington's a bad guy now and, and nothing,

00:55:27.590 --> 00:55:29.510
you know, Robert E Lee never said anything good,

00:55:29.630 --> 00:55:32.610
even though these were virtuous men. Um, and,

00:55:32.889 --> 00:55:35.289
and stories do the same thing. It's just in your

00:55:35.289 --> 00:55:40.349
imaginative, your moral imagination. Um, so biographies

00:55:40.349 --> 00:55:43.250
and autobiographies and stories, like you said,

00:55:43.690 --> 00:55:49.409
they, allow your mind to Think about people that

00:55:49.409 --> 00:55:53.989
have faced Situations where they failed it's

00:55:53.989 --> 00:55:57.610
not it's not even just about you know You know

00:55:57.610 --> 00:56:00.610
the heroes there there there are stories worth

00:56:00.610 --> 00:56:05.030
studying stories worth reading so that you don't

00:56:05.030 --> 00:56:07.889
you know do whatever the the hero did or the

00:56:07.889 --> 00:56:10.429
protagonist did not the hero necessarily, but

00:56:10.429 --> 00:56:12.869
also like, uh, with, I mean, like the great Gatsby

00:56:12.869 --> 00:56:15.489
is one example of, you know, where there's vice,

00:56:15.809 --> 00:56:17.090
you know, it's like, you read that story. It's

00:56:17.090 --> 00:56:19.849
an engaging story. If Scott Fitzgerald's writing

00:56:19.849 --> 00:56:22.570
is engaging, if you say so, you, yeah, I mean,

00:56:22.630 --> 00:56:27.789
I think so. Uh, but you read it and you, what

00:56:27.789 --> 00:56:30.909
you learn is adultery really does kill. You know,

00:56:30.909 --> 00:56:33.960
it's, it's I'm rooting for all of them to be

00:56:33.960 --> 00:56:36.139
hit by meteor every time I try to read that,

00:56:36.280 --> 00:56:38.260
but you're right. That's pretty much what it's

00:56:38.260 --> 00:56:40.880
like. It's not a figurative meteor, but everybody's

00:56:40.880 --> 00:56:44.320
life ends pretty miserably. Yeah, it's like Breaking

00:56:44.320 --> 00:56:46.760
Bad. Catastrophic stories are helpful. Yes. In

00:56:46.760 --> 00:56:49.800
that they tell you that actually, ruin does come

00:56:49.800 --> 00:56:51.880
from bad choices. When sin is full grown, it

00:56:51.880 --> 00:56:54.320
actually does bring death. Yeah, well said. Well,

00:56:54.340 --> 00:56:56.280
the stories of these crusaders mention Skanderbeg,

00:56:56.320 --> 00:56:58.000
and then I've been reading about these guys.

00:56:58.139 --> 00:57:00.980
Sometimes that story is, how do you... How do

00:57:00.980 --> 00:57:03.300
you behave when the end is come when you're not

00:57:03.300 --> 00:57:05.539
going to get the thing that you want? Yeah, what

00:57:05.539 --> 00:57:07.780
what should Christians think when they're evicted

00:57:07.780 --> 00:57:10.099
from the Holy Land that they believe God has

00:57:10.099 --> 00:57:14.260
turned his back on them and Reading those guys

00:57:14.260 --> 00:57:17.019
actual words about their thoughts their prayers

00:57:17.019 --> 00:57:21.960
Very interesting stuff. Yeah. I mean Nick has

00:57:21.960 --> 00:57:27.739
put Robert Ely's reflections upon the The what's

00:57:27.739 --> 00:57:30.960
that? Well, I can't remember the term the post

00:57:30.960 --> 00:57:33.219
Civil War destruction of the South. Reconstruction.

00:57:33.699 --> 00:57:36.599
Reconstruction. Just the fact that he felt it

00:57:36.599 --> 00:57:39.440
virtuous and important to remain optimistic about

00:57:39.440 --> 00:57:41.400
what could be done. He was hopeful all the way

00:57:41.400 --> 00:57:44.239
to the end of his life. Even as the land that

00:57:44.239 --> 00:57:47.260
he loved so much is being brutalized. That's

00:57:47.260 --> 00:57:50.480
helpful. And went back, you know, and I think

00:57:50.480 --> 00:57:52.960
lived in a world where he said we've lost a lot.

00:57:53.159 --> 00:57:55.039
How do we regain those things that are good?

00:57:55.849 --> 00:57:58.230
And he decided the way to do that was education.

00:57:58.329 --> 00:57:59.989
So he devoted pretty much the rest of his life

00:57:59.989 --> 00:58:03.670
to particularly to higher education. Yeah. Well,

00:58:03.670 --> 00:58:06.469
I mean, he saw, right. And he saw what the Marxists

00:58:06.469 --> 00:58:08.769
have seen that that's also a way to destroy things.

00:58:10.230 --> 00:58:14.690
I guess the, the final point on those story kind

00:58:14.690 --> 00:58:18.329
of deals there is that we do live in a world

00:58:18.329 --> 00:58:21.289
of men with clay feet. And so I'm an evangelical

00:58:21.289 --> 00:58:27.280
kind of With your heroes. You've got RC Sproul

00:58:27.280 --> 00:58:30.420
dying. Well You've got John MacArthur dying.

00:58:30.559 --> 00:58:33.820
Well, and then just a bacham voting bacham dying

00:58:33.820 --> 00:58:36.300
Well, then you've got a list of guys that I looked

00:58:36.300 --> 00:58:39.059
up to my their books are my bookshelf. They've

00:58:39.059 --> 00:58:43.460
made shipwreck and Postmodernism pushes us to

00:58:43.460 --> 00:58:46.860
believe that there's nothing actually good authentically

00:58:46.860 --> 00:58:50.900
good everything is sort of ruinous, you know,

00:58:50.920 --> 00:58:55.639
the movie wicked is Out in theaters it's the

00:58:55.639 --> 00:58:57.840
classic postmodern story turns out the bad guys

00:58:57.840 --> 00:59:00.980
actually the good guy the good guys this secret

00:59:00.980 --> 00:59:04.340
evil person this is postmodernism effect on us

00:59:04.340 --> 00:59:07.380
in. Are you familiar with the dead hero theory

00:59:07.380 --> 00:59:09.219
and you probably are but you know by the name.

00:59:09.699 --> 00:59:11.579
Don't believe so. It's this idea that you shouldn't

00:59:11.579 --> 00:59:13.820
have any heroes who are still alive. Oh, yeah,

00:59:13.820 --> 00:59:15.360
I've heard that before Yeah, because if your

00:59:15.360 --> 00:59:17.440
heroes are still alive, they can just you know

00:59:17.440 --> 00:59:19.199
disappoint you Yeah, well you sometimes hear

00:59:19.199 --> 00:59:21.019
that never meet your heroes, which I think it's

00:59:21.019 --> 00:59:22.900
kind of a similar sentiment Like they're never

00:59:22.900 --> 00:59:26.219
what you think they are. Yeah So now there may

00:59:26.219 --> 00:59:29.699
be some teeth to that. Yeah, I mean Kind of living

00:59:29.699 --> 00:59:32.039
through unless it's Luke Skywalker talking unless

00:59:32.039 --> 00:59:34.239
it's ryan johnson talking about Luke Skywalker

00:59:34.239 --> 00:59:38.699
in which case That's very precise, Nick. It seems

00:59:38.699 --> 00:59:41.639
like there may be some trauma there. Disney tried

00:59:41.639 --> 00:59:43.760
to destroy my childhood. Yeah, for sure. George

00:59:43.760 --> 00:59:48.940
Lucas did that to me in 1999. The point being

00:59:48.940 --> 00:59:52.820
that I think that reading history does tell me

00:59:52.820 --> 00:59:56.239
actually good men, not perfect men, but good

00:59:56.239 --> 00:59:59.139
men exist and some of them make it to the end

00:59:59.139 --> 01:00:01.960
well. I hope my kids, to whatever degree they

01:00:01.960 --> 01:00:07.340
think of me well, my ambition Is that they would

01:00:07.340 --> 01:00:11.159
say dad died well, right? But history gives me

01:00:11.159 --> 01:00:14.460
a litany of men who I can say this actually does

01:00:14.460 --> 01:00:19.079
postmodernism is not right. Um, all the examples

01:00:19.079 --> 01:00:21.500
of men who fail very close to the finish line.

01:00:21.760 --> 01:00:24.320
That's ultimately not the final word either.

01:00:24.980 --> 01:00:26.420
There are people in history that you can look

01:00:26.420 --> 01:00:29.820
to who finished their race well. And, and it,

01:00:29.820 --> 01:00:32.500
it, it helps it remain a credible ambition. Yeah.

01:00:32.980 --> 01:00:34.960
Yeah. That's helpful. All right. What do you

01:00:34.960 --> 01:00:37.440
got anymore? Jason, you want to lay on us? Okay.

01:00:37.500 --> 01:00:40.159
Just throw in a few, a few, uh, other miners

01:00:40.159 --> 01:00:42.960
out there. This is the mining episode. That's

01:00:42.960 --> 01:00:44.280
the, going to have to be the title of the mining

01:00:44.280 --> 01:00:47.760
episode. I'll throw one out there that, and just

01:00:47.760 --> 01:00:50.159
let me go ahead and say the views stated here,

01:00:50.159 --> 01:00:52.320
uh, are Jeff Wright's alone and do not reflect

01:00:52.320 --> 01:00:55.579
necessarily the other minimum is car. Um, but

01:00:55.579 --> 01:00:58.519
I'm going to say that for the, for the, the state

01:00:58.519 --> 01:01:01.099
of our public discourse, I think Tucker Carlson

01:01:01.099 --> 01:01:04.019
is doing really important work. He is being destroyed

01:01:04.019 --> 01:01:07.309
by what I would call. false accusations in certain

01:01:07.309 --> 01:01:10.250
arenas. But I think he's basically the last high

01:01:10.250 --> 01:01:13.269
level journalist we have. He talks about things

01:01:13.269 --> 01:01:15.429
that people in private conversation are talking

01:01:15.429 --> 01:01:18.369
about all the time, but we don't have the journalistic

01:01:18.369 --> 01:01:21.190
resources to suss out what may be true there.

01:01:21.369 --> 01:01:24.550
And so he just recently released an episode on

01:01:24.550 --> 01:01:27.389
the, the would be Trump assassin in Pennsylvania.

01:01:28.460 --> 01:01:30.880
I can't count the number of conversations I've

01:01:30.880 --> 01:01:32.840
had with people being like, what is this guy's

01:01:32.840 --> 01:01:35.199
deal? What do we know about him? We even have

01:01:35.199 --> 01:01:37.119
the FBI telling us like, well, he's just basically

01:01:37.119 --> 01:01:40.639
a ghost online. Tucker actually went and did

01:01:40.639 --> 01:01:44.320
journalism and gave us a 30 minutes told Alice

01:01:44.320 --> 01:01:47.119
in that episode in 30 minutes, he told us so

01:01:47.119 --> 01:01:49.539
much about that guy and we knew nothing. Yeah,

01:01:49.539 --> 01:01:53.320
it was 30 minutes and it was infinitely more

01:01:53.320 --> 01:01:55.679
than we'd gotten from any other source. And so

01:01:55.679 --> 01:01:57.380
again, there are criticisms of him out there.

01:01:57.400 --> 01:02:01.420
He, by his own attestation, he is a baby Christian

01:02:01.420 --> 01:02:04.000
who is trying to learn the faith. So sometimes

01:02:04.000 --> 01:02:05.500
he'll say things about Christianity where I'm

01:02:05.500 --> 01:02:06.860
like, you know, Tucker, I would probably tighten

01:02:06.860 --> 01:02:09.639
that screw a little differently. But in terms

01:02:09.639 --> 01:02:12.179
of journalism, I don't know anybody comparable.

01:02:12.280 --> 01:02:14.119
And so I'm really thankful for Tucker Carlson.

01:02:14.340 --> 01:02:19.179
Yep. I would co -sign that. Yeah. I think the

01:02:19.179 --> 01:02:24.199
argument against what he did with his more recent

01:02:24.199 --> 01:02:29.429
interview is give Light to, or give time to the

01:02:29.429 --> 01:02:33.650
wrong side. Well, the Nick Fuentes thing. Yeah.

01:02:33.710 --> 01:02:35.769
I have nothing good to say about Nick Fuentes

01:02:35.769 --> 01:02:38.730
other than he does raise the voice of his, the

01:02:38.730 --> 01:02:40.769
questions and the objections of his generation

01:02:40.769 --> 01:02:43.590
in a unique way. That's the only good thing I

01:02:43.590 --> 01:02:46.969
can say about Nick. Um, and so I don't want to

01:02:46.969 --> 01:02:49.190
kind of re -enter that debate here within this

01:02:49.190 --> 01:02:52.889
room. That said, Jason, where I come down on

01:02:52.889 --> 01:02:55.789
that is I think it's within the purview of a

01:02:55.789 --> 01:02:58.059
journalist. It may not be the choice I would

01:02:58.059 --> 01:03:03.119
make, but I also don't, I don't see it as some

01:03:03.119 --> 01:03:05.000
scandalously crazy thing. So I can remember.

01:03:05.280 --> 01:03:06.659
This is the same guy who interviewed Vladimir

01:03:06.659 --> 01:03:10.760
Putin. Right. Remember he also actively interviews

01:03:10.760 --> 01:03:13.119
people from the left. I mean, I can, I can't

01:03:13.119 --> 01:03:15.699
remember her name, but it's the lady who has

01:03:15.699 --> 01:03:18.500
been on Young Turks for years. Yeah. Yeah. And

01:03:18.500 --> 01:03:20.460
he's interviewed her a couple of times and she's

01:03:20.460 --> 01:03:22.519
a pretty far leftist on a lot of things. She's

01:03:22.519 --> 01:03:24.960
one of the people that now Kind of gets lumped

01:03:24.960 --> 01:03:27.539
into the not so left middle that you were talking

01:03:27.539 --> 01:03:29.860
about at the beginning of the episode Because

01:03:29.860 --> 01:03:31.980
she won't go with the radical left on some things

01:03:31.980 --> 01:03:33.599
So, I mean that's probably why he's interviewing

01:03:33.599 --> 01:03:36.500
her but she's way left on a lot of things and

01:03:36.500 --> 01:03:38.460
he doesn't get filleted for interviewing her

01:03:38.460 --> 01:03:40.360
Yeah, and you know Seth Dillon of the Babylon

01:03:40.360 --> 01:03:42.860
B is one of his most vocal critics when Seth

01:03:42.860 --> 01:03:47.449
was being canceled Tucker Adam on a show So again,

01:03:47.489 --> 01:03:49.630
I may not make every choice the same. Yeah. I

01:03:49.630 --> 01:03:51.130
probably would have interviewed Nick Fuentes,

01:03:51.369 --> 01:03:54.030
but he's a journalist and he can really want

01:03:54.030 --> 01:04:00.210
to interview. Well, I'll tell you this interview

01:04:00.210 --> 01:04:02.309
done at the actually talk to him some, so I don't

01:04:02.309 --> 01:04:03.889
think I would do that. Yeah. I mean, it would

01:04:03.889 --> 01:04:06.210
be, it'd be an interesting conversation if I

01:04:06.210 --> 01:04:09.610
did that. That said, um, what I said about Nick

01:04:09.610 --> 01:04:14.099
is I do think he gives a voice to his, uh, demographic

01:04:14.099 --> 01:04:16.599
is popular for a reason. There's something going

01:04:16.599 --> 01:04:19.239
on there. And so as a guy who doesn't listen

01:04:19.239 --> 01:04:22.400
to Nick Fuentes ever, other than clips that show

01:04:22.400 --> 01:04:25.380
up on Twitter, it was helpful for me to hear

01:04:25.380 --> 01:04:28.260
that. And I actually think it's helpful because

01:04:28.260 --> 01:04:30.980
if we want to disarm a guy like Nick Fuentes

01:04:30.980 --> 01:04:34.059
or Andrew Tate or some of these voices that are

01:04:34.059 --> 01:04:35.960
ostensibly on the right that we would say are

01:04:35.960 --> 01:04:39.659
not helpful. We've got to provide a better alternative.

01:04:40.079 --> 01:04:43.059
And so hearing Nick raise, we need Christian

01:04:43.059 --> 01:04:45.420
men raising the questions that Nick Fuentes raises

01:04:45.420 --> 01:04:47.340
and answering them better than he answers them

01:04:47.340 --> 01:04:50.739
in a godly way. Yeah. And so again, I might've

01:04:50.739 --> 01:04:52.400
done some things differently, but ultimately

01:04:52.400 --> 01:04:54.280
I was even thankful for that interview because

01:04:54.280 --> 01:04:57.500
I realized where the work is with young men now

01:04:57.500 --> 01:05:00.940
better probably than I did before. Yeah. Are

01:05:00.940 --> 01:05:05.820
any of you guys familiar with George Janko? He's

01:05:05.820 --> 01:05:11.030
a, he's a comedian now, but he. He's a very strong

01:05:11.030 --> 01:05:15.329
Christian. And I would point you guys, um, to

01:05:15.329 --> 01:05:19.710
his interview of Jordan Peterson. Okay. That's

01:05:19.710 --> 01:05:23.690
that relieved all doubt about Jordan Peterson

01:05:23.690 --> 01:05:28.849
being a Christian. Yeah. Um, that's what I prefer

01:05:28.849 --> 01:05:32.269
for Jordan. Well, Jordan, he has always been

01:05:32.269 --> 01:05:34.650
very standoffish about answering whether or not

01:05:34.650 --> 01:05:39.920
he's a Christian. And his argument is. I don't

01:05:39.920 --> 01:05:43.340
like the way the question was asked and they

01:05:43.340 --> 01:05:46.480
were backing me in a corner, you know, with that.

01:05:46.880 --> 01:05:50.239
Yeah. And that's always the reason that he is

01:05:50.239 --> 01:05:52.539
denied that question whenever he was asked that.

01:05:52.539 --> 01:05:55.320
So I would, I would highly recommend that, that

01:05:55.320 --> 01:06:00.659
episodes. Uh, Jenko Jenko. Okay. Yeah. But that

01:06:00.659 --> 01:06:03.139
really shed a lot of light on Jordan Peterson

01:06:03.139 --> 01:06:06.500
because I've looked up to Jordan Peterson, not

01:06:06.500 --> 01:06:09.250
on all levels, but on many levels. for a while

01:06:09.250 --> 01:06:12.329
now. And, uh, I just, I really appreciate some

01:06:12.329 --> 01:06:14.469
of the things that he's done. His studies on

01:06:14.469 --> 01:06:16.389
different books, the Bible and things like that

01:06:16.389 --> 01:06:19.750
really like showed me a lot that I wouldn't have

01:06:19.750 --> 01:06:22.949
been exposed to otherwise in a good way. Yeah.

01:06:22.949 --> 01:06:26.190
Yeah. And Peterson was kind of a prototype for

01:06:26.190 --> 01:06:28.909
you were talking about Andrew Tate and Nick Fuentes

01:06:28.909 --> 01:06:31.489
and that I don't, I don't say that to bash Jordan

01:06:31.489 --> 01:06:34.570
Peterson, but the younger millennials, older

01:06:34.570 --> 01:06:39.280
zoomers. Came to Peterson because he was offering

01:06:39.280 --> 01:06:43.500
order to them in a chaotic world And I think

01:06:43.500 --> 01:06:45.420
that's part of the appeal of some of these guys.

01:06:45.420 --> 01:06:47.679
I mean even a guy like Andrew Tate who's a villain

01:06:47.679 --> 01:06:53.539
is Trying to I mean he's trying to enrich himself

01:06:53.539 --> 01:06:55.920
ultimately But he's at least tapped into an unlike

01:06:55.920 --> 01:06:59.260
an actual market demand of like we're tired of

01:06:59.260 --> 01:07:01.619
chaos So this is a great place for the church

01:07:01.619 --> 01:07:04.789
to step in and be able to answer the same Like

01:07:04.789 --> 01:07:07.090
you have the questions, don't go ask that guy.

01:07:07.110 --> 01:07:11.550
Don't go to ask Nick Fuentes. But also we're

01:07:11.550 --> 01:07:13.210
not going to run you out the door if you ask

01:07:13.210 --> 01:07:17.530
an offensive question to us. Well, to that point,

01:07:17.590 --> 01:07:23.190
you can cultivate a market by selling base things.

01:07:23.190 --> 01:07:25.610
Yeah. Right. You can, you can cultivate a market

01:07:25.610 --> 01:07:28.110
by providing things that no one should want.

01:07:28.250 --> 01:07:31.590
So like the porn industry exists. Right. That's

01:07:31.590 --> 01:07:35.260
close to Tate. But there is a thread there with

01:07:35.260 --> 01:07:37.559
Tate that you're talking about that overlaps

01:07:37.559 --> 01:07:40.260
with Jordan Peterson that it actually is important

01:07:40.260 --> 01:07:43.860
to conservatives because he's offering a vision

01:07:43.860 --> 01:07:47.000
that is alternative to feminized masculinity.

01:07:48.000 --> 01:07:50.599
It's the wrong one, but that doesn't mean the

01:07:50.599 --> 01:07:53.280
underlying desire for a better vision of what

01:07:53.280 --> 01:07:55.519
these young people have grown up with is wrong.

01:07:55.559 --> 01:07:57.480
Well, how many, how many pagan and I wouldn't,

01:07:57.599 --> 01:08:00.179
I wouldn't call it Tate a philosopher Peterson.

01:08:00.440 --> 01:08:03.380
I would. But how many pagan philosophers have

01:08:03.380 --> 01:08:06.800
gotten the diagnosis right, but not the cure

01:08:06.800 --> 01:08:09.219
right. This is part of the reason why Nietzsche

01:08:09.219 --> 01:08:13.139
continues to be a draw for lots of folks is because

01:08:13.139 --> 01:08:14.940
he's right about a lot of the things that he's

01:08:14.940 --> 01:08:16.560
pointing at and saying these are the problems

01:08:16.560 --> 01:08:19.420
and here's my solutions and the solutions are

01:08:19.420 --> 01:08:21.800
all bad because they're not biblically based.

01:08:23.359 --> 01:08:25.479
So, you know, throwing the baby out with the

01:08:25.479 --> 01:08:28.199
bathwater, I guess, kind of. I don't read Nietzsche

01:08:28.199 --> 01:08:31.159
because he's, you know, Don't what you don't

01:08:31.159 --> 01:08:34.399
want to do is is adopt niches worldview wholesale

01:08:34.399 --> 01:08:38.079
because you'll end up a suicidal nihilist. But

01:08:38.079 --> 01:08:40.640
when somebody and even marks right like marks

01:08:40.640 --> 01:08:42.560
is a guy that we everybody in this room hates

01:08:42.560 --> 01:08:45.420
but like. He was right about some of the diagnosis

01:08:45.420 --> 01:08:48.420
like he got some of the problems he noticed them

01:08:48.420 --> 01:08:50.439
the reasons why they were problems he didn't

01:08:50.439 --> 01:08:52.439
get right the reasons are how to solve them he

01:08:52.439 --> 01:08:56.520
didn't get right so. We have a long history of

01:08:56.520 --> 01:08:59.100
people showing up, identifying the problems rightly,

01:08:59.359 --> 01:09:01.659
offering bad solutions, and in the absence of

01:09:01.659 --> 01:09:05.020
good solutions, people go to that, which is where

01:09:05.020 --> 01:09:07.880
guys like Fuentes and Tate come from. Peterson's

01:09:07.880 --> 01:09:10.439
in a different league from them, I think. But

01:09:10.439 --> 01:09:13.279
there is something similar there in that, with

01:09:13.279 --> 01:09:18.159
Peterson, order instead of chaos. Tate, thriving

01:09:18.159 --> 01:09:22.579
as a man. Fuentes, young people don't have a

01:09:22.579 --> 01:09:24.380
vision of how they can participate in society

01:09:24.380 --> 01:09:28.060
economically. That is kind of an Issachar thing

01:09:28.060 --> 01:09:31.060
to be able to say, okay, there's a whole bunch

01:09:31.060 --> 01:09:33.859
of garbage here, but there's actually something

01:09:33.859 --> 01:09:36.439
helpful here for the people who want to actually

01:09:36.439 --> 01:09:38.920
do good to their neighbor. They can help them

01:09:38.920 --> 01:09:40.680
understand the issue better. So now let's get

01:09:40.680 --> 01:09:43.439
to work providing something better as an alternative

01:09:43.439 --> 01:09:46.619
vision. Right. So a man of Issachar knows the

01:09:46.619 --> 01:09:50.159
times and knows what to do. And they know the

01:09:50.159 --> 01:09:52.939
times, but they don't know what to do. So that's

01:09:52.939 --> 01:09:57.460
where the that's where the gap is, I think. Well,

01:09:57.460 --> 01:09:59.560
I know where I'm going to buy my Christmas tree.

01:10:00.340 --> 01:10:06.399
Oh, where's that? Duncan's tree lot. That's right.

01:10:06.800 --> 01:10:09.359
Serving the upper Cumberland. And you can drive

01:10:09.359 --> 01:10:11.359
the upper Cumberland very quickly from lots of

01:10:11.359 --> 01:10:13.819
different places in the world. Louisiana and

01:10:13.819 --> 01:10:16.979
we have Arkansas 111 north and south. We have

01:10:16.979 --> 01:10:20.289
interstate 40 east and west. It's an easily accessible

01:10:20.289 --> 01:10:25.130
area. Tell me about your trees. These are not

01:10:25.130 --> 01:10:28.149
junk trees, right? No, they're not junk trees.

01:10:28.449 --> 01:10:33.250
They are Appalachian grown Frasier firs, which

01:10:33.250 --> 01:10:35.829
in my opinion are the best. Trees to have for

01:10:35.829 --> 01:10:39.130
Christmas. Appalachian trees will shoot at intruders.

01:10:39.130 --> 01:10:42.170
That's right. That's one of the things they have.

01:10:42.170 --> 01:10:44.210
They have shotguns built into the trucks. Do

01:10:44.210 --> 01:10:46.770
not pull up into the driveway of a Frasier fir.

01:10:47.689 --> 01:10:49.489
Now you've got to keep them away from alcohol,

01:10:50.630 --> 01:10:57.090
but they will. What's the advantage of the Frasier

01:10:57.090 --> 01:10:58.789
fir? We all, you hear about Christmas trees.

01:10:58.949 --> 01:11:01.449
Everybody kind of thinks pine trees. Yeah. Pine's

01:11:01.449 --> 01:11:03.949
not really the ideal. Pine is not the ideal.

01:11:03.970 --> 01:11:07.810
Pine are really sappy and any tree, um, especially

01:11:07.810 --> 01:11:10.590
evergreen have sap. Yes. Just like Hallmark movies.

01:11:11.289 --> 01:11:14.829
Um, you know, pines have a lot of sap. They lose

01:11:14.829 --> 01:11:18.369
their needles. Um, uh, pretty quick alarming

01:11:18.369 --> 01:11:21.869
rate, uh, an alarming rate and a phrase refers

01:11:21.869 --> 01:11:24.550
are they do, they have the best needle retention.

01:11:24.670 --> 01:11:26.689
You might vacuum a couple of times while you

01:11:26.689 --> 01:11:29.390
have it up for, you know, depending on how many

01:11:29.390 --> 01:11:31.029
weeks you keep your tree up. So for some of us,

01:11:31.130 --> 01:11:33.329
that's longer than how many toddlers you have

01:11:33.329 --> 01:11:35.930
in the home may well affect the shedding rate

01:11:35.930 --> 01:11:38.590
as well. But they have great needle retention.

01:11:39.409 --> 01:11:43.609
They last several weeks. They'll last well through

01:11:43.609 --> 01:11:46.810
the Christmas season. And, you know, you make

01:11:46.810 --> 01:11:49.909
a clean cut at the at the base of the trunk and

01:11:49.909 --> 01:11:52.029
they'll they'll drink water for a lot of weeks

01:11:52.029 --> 01:11:55.520
and stay nice and fresh. They smell great. That's

01:11:55.520 --> 01:11:59.699
my favorite part of a live tree. The whole house

01:11:59.699 --> 01:12:03.619
will smell like Christmas. That's right. And

01:12:03.619 --> 01:12:06.520
they can only grow at certain elevations. And

01:12:06.520 --> 01:12:08.819
so the Fraser firs come from tree farms, primarily

01:12:08.819 --> 01:12:12.539
in Appalachia. So the trees that I will be selling

01:12:12.539 --> 01:12:17.800
in Cookville are grown in Western North Carolina,

01:12:18.020 --> 01:12:19.640
particularly in a place called Avery County.

01:12:20.079 --> 01:12:24.340
So I actually live there for a chunk of my raising.

01:12:25.230 --> 01:12:28.689
And my dad was a pastor there, and we lived in

01:12:28.689 --> 01:12:32.930
a parsonage. And the church's house that we lived

01:12:32.930 --> 01:12:35.369
in, it was just Christmas trees as far as the

01:12:35.369 --> 01:12:38.789
eye can see. And so we always had artificial

01:12:38.789 --> 01:12:42.770
trees up until that point. And we moved there.

01:12:43.569 --> 01:12:46.189
The locals quickly told us no one has an artificial

01:12:46.189 --> 01:12:48.930
tree up here. Artificial trees don't go around

01:12:48.930 --> 01:12:51.590
here. That's right. And say, don't, don't let,

01:12:51.770 --> 01:12:53.970
don't let artificial intelligence do your thinking

01:12:53.970 --> 01:12:57.050
and don't let artificial trees do your treeing.

01:12:57.510 --> 01:13:01.289
So you need a real Christmas tree. Yeah. So what's

01:13:01.289 --> 01:13:06.750
the address for the GPS is, uh, it is 200, uh,

01:13:06.829 --> 01:13:10.989
North old Kentucky Avenue, old Kentucky road,

01:13:11.510 --> 01:13:15.729
200 North old Kentucky road in Cookville, Tennessee.

01:13:16.109 --> 01:13:19.590
So you can come by or we'll, uh, we'll have fresh.

01:13:19.899 --> 01:13:23.539
cut Fraser for Christmas trees and wreaths, um,

01:13:23.720 --> 01:13:27.380
uh, and Garland, um, tabletop Christmas trees

01:13:27.380 --> 01:13:29.840
as well. If you want a centerpiece. So that'll

01:13:29.840 --> 01:13:33.880
be starting, uh, this Friday, uh, which is the

01:13:33.880 --> 01:13:37.659
21st. Yeah. And, and so we'll be selling on Friday

01:13:37.659 --> 01:13:39.600
and Saturday. We'll take a break for the Lord's

01:13:39.600 --> 01:13:41.220
day and then we'll be back on Monday and we'll

01:13:41.220 --> 01:13:43.659
sell all week, the week of Thanksgiving and into

01:13:43.659 --> 01:13:45.739
the weekend after Thanksgiving. And we'll sell

01:13:45.739 --> 01:13:47.479
as long as we have trees to sell. Just think

01:13:47.479 --> 01:13:50.939
of it as. An unwoke hallmark experience. That's

01:13:50.939 --> 01:13:54.380
right. The true and better hallmark experience.

01:13:55.039 --> 01:13:56.840
Yes. Nick, you're talking about the source of

01:13:56.840 --> 01:14:00.859
those trees you're selling. Was that area affected

01:14:00.859 --> 01:14:03.840
by Hurricane Helene? Very affected. Yeah. So

01:14:03.840 --> 01:14:06.760
my parents still live in the area. They do technically

01:14:06.760 --> 01:14:10.340
live in Tennessee, but they're only, you know,

01:14:10.460 --> 01:14:13.079
probably a mile and a half, two miles from the

01:14:13.079 --> 01:14:15.420
North Carolina border. And my brother and sister

01:14:15.420 --> 01:14:17.640
live on the other side of the mountains in North

01:14:17.640 --> 01:14:20.430
Carolina. And they were all thankfully minimally

01:14:20.430 --> 01:14:24.329
affected, but tons of people that live around

01:14:24.329 --> 01:14:28.850
them were devastated. There's one, if you're

01:14:28.850 --> 01:14:30.329
familiar with Appalachia, of course you have

01:14:30.329 --> 01:14:32.869
hollers. And then at the bottom of the hollers,

01:14:33.029 --> 01:14:34.970
where the mountains kind of run into these sharp

01:14:34.970 --> 01:14:38.189
ravines, they're called bottoms, typically. And

01:14:38.189 --> 01:14:40.189
so there's one particular place called Beach

01:14:40.189 --> 01:14:44.590
Bottom, which is at the bottom of the holler

01:14:44.590 --> 01:14:47.029
that my brother lives in. There were several

01:14:47.029 --> 01:14:49.489
houses in Beach Bottom that I used to drive by

01:14:49.489 --> 01:14:51.529
all the time And when I went up there to visit

01:14:51.529 --> 01:14:53.869
my brother and look at his property make sure

01:14:53.869 --> 01:14:57.670
they were okay After after Helene came through

01:14:57.670 --> 01:15:00.310
all the houses in Beach Bottom were gone If you

01:15:00.310 --> 01:15:02.470
didn't know they were there you would have never

01:15:02.470 --> 01:15:04.109
known they thought anything was there just look

01:15:04.109 --> 01:15:08.170
like a creek bed So very very affected. There's

01:15:08.170 --> 01:15:12.609
still people that Are making it living in campers

01:15:12.609 --> 01:15:15.920
and and things of that nature and rebuilding.

01:15:17.180 --> 01:15:21.300
And so, yeah, if you're a prayer warrior, and

01:15:21.300 --> 01:15:22.779
I hope you are, if you're listening to this,

01:15:23.220 --> 01:15:24.779
the people of Appalachia could still use your

01:15:24.779 --> 01:15:27.000
prayers recovering from that hurricane. Well,

01:15:27.020 --> 01:15:29.640
very practically, what was behind my question

01:15:29.640 --> 01:15:33.460
is that, I mean, this is an extension of some

01:15:33.460 --> 01:15:35.640
miles, but you're doing commerce with people

01:15:35.640 --> 01:15:37.720
trying to rebuild their lives after. hurricane

01:15:37.720 --> 01:15:40.100
Helene by buying their Christmas trees. The primary

01:15:40.100 --> 01:15:43.239
commerce that the folks in western North Carolina

01:15:43.239 --> 01:15:46.180
do, where I grew up, and the places where I'm

01:15:46.180 --> 01:15:49.720
talking about, Avery County, Watauga County,

01:15:49.800 --> 01:15:52.340
if you're familiar with Boone, it's near there.

01:15:53.760 --> 01:15:56.859
Those folks run Christmas tree farms, and they

01:15:56.859 --> 01:15:59.260
cut them like crazy in October, November, and

01:15:59.260 --> 01:16:03.939
they ship them all over the place. My dad's best

01:16:03.939 --> 01:16:06.369
friend is owned a tree farm for a long time and

01:16:06.369 --> 01:16:08.750
he's sold trees to the white house before. Oh

01:16:08.750 --> 01:16:10.869
yeah. And so it's, it's actually the preferred

01:16:10.869 --> 01:16:12.989
tree of the white house. Uh, the, there have

01:16:12.989 --> 01:16:14.710
been Fraser fir trees in the white house more

01:16:14.710 --> 01:16:18.029
than any other, um, top of Christmas tree. So,

01:16:18.710 --> 01:16:20.609
yeah. So you mean, you, you know, you could go

01:16:20.609 --> 01:16:22.510
help the people still suffering from the effects

01:16:22.510 --> 01:16:25.430
of Hulling, but buying a tree there and hauling

01:16:25.430 --> 01:16:27.289
it back, or you could let Nick bring it this

01:16:27.289 --> 01:16:29.350
way for you. That's right. And you can, you can,

01:16:29.489 --> 01:16:31.090
you don't, you don't have to even drive up there.

01:16:31.109 --> 01:16:33.479
You can just come to cookville. All right, guys.

01:16:33.539 --> 01:16:35.659
Well, I think that's going to wrap us up. Thank

01:16:35.659 --> 01:16:38.560
you guys for joining us. We, if you have any

01:16:38.560 --> 01:16:42.560
questions, you can email us at it's a car podcast

01:16:42.560 --> 01:16:47.649
at gmail .com. Aren't you contractually obligated

01:16:47.649 --> 01:16:49.810
as a podcaster to end an episode by saying, leave

01:16:49.810 --> 01:16:51.970
a rating and review on your favorite platform

01:16:51.970 --> 01:16:54.170
because it helps other people find us. Like and

01:16:54.170 --> 01:16:56.489
subscribe. Do it, like and subscribe. Smash the

01:16:56.489 --> 01:17:00.649
like button and ring the bell so you can get

01:17:00.649 --> 01:17:04.130
shared on your socials. No really. I'm going

01:17:04.130 --> 01:17:07.550
to leave you with a track with one of my good

01:17:07.550 --> 01:17:16.510
friends, Mr. Marcus Hill, bury me there. I heard

01:17:16.510 --> 01:17:20.270
the warden say, here's a dead man walking Car

01:17:20.270 --> 01:17:23.989
gave a knock, pointed me to my cell Seems like

01:17:23.989 --> 01:17:27.430
ages, I've lived in cages Might seem strange,

01:17:27.449 --> 01:17:37.189
but I like how they feel The drink put me down

01:17:37.189 --> 01:17:40.949
and the pills woke me up Spirit came by to feed

01:17:40.949 --> 01:17:45.100
on my lust Hooked on a craving Smothered in doubt,

01:17:45.159 --> 01:17:55.079
then I found Jesus And he broke me out I'm on

01:17:55.079 --> 01:17:57.920
a run to the river Hey, preacher, meet me there

01:17:57.920 --> 01:18:19.369
Bring the undertaker, not a moment to spare Chase

01:18:19.369 --> 01:18:20.170
me down