Welcome back to the second episode of the Men
of Issachar podcast. This week we're going to
take a look at a Christmas song. We're going
to discuss laws versus rulers. We'll discuss
a little bit about Trump, bison stew and cheeseburgers
and creating legacies with your family and farm
animals among many other things. So sit back
and relax. We're rolling. Welcome back to the
Men of Issachar podcast, our second attempt at
a podcast, our second episode. So if you're new
to the program, which you are because we are,
then this is a podcast where we discuss all kinds
of things. And the idea behind it, if you're
not familiar with the scripture references, that
the Bible describes the men of Issachar who knew
the times and what to do. And so that's kind
of the theme. Do we know the times and do we
know what to do? And so we'll be discussing a
variety of things. So I am Terry and I'm here
with Jason. It's just us two for now. We'll see
if our third co -host joins us, Jeff, he might
be here and we'll sneak him in. At some point
he'll just start talking and that's how you'll
know he's here. So I'd like to start us off with
a interesting anecdote that I learned today.
Um, we've been, we've been preparing, if you
don't know this, this is being recorded in a
school and we are, uh, uh, we are preparing for,
uh, at the time of this recording, we're preparing
for Christmas, um, Christmas caroling events.
So one of the, one of the things that we really
want to be is a school that sings well, sings
with elevated culture and tries to. seeing beautiful
things and unique things and kind of reach back
into the past and look for forgotten things that
were beautiful that have kind of been left behind
in the dustbin of history as you might say and
our music teacher found because she wanted to
give parts to to women's voices and she wanted
to give some for the male voices as well so she
found a really good carol for the ladies to sing
called Coventry Carol which is a which is a very
beautiful song you should look that up And for
the men, she found one that I had never heard
of call it. Have you heard, had you heard of
this before? I'd never heard of this. Okay. This
is called the boars head Carol. And, um, apparently
the story goes that a, a student at, I think
it was Oxford Queens college. It was, it was,
it was somewhere, somewhere in the United Kingdom,
um, very old college. I imagine, uh, was, was
wandering about campus one evening with his volume
of Aristotle. He was studying. I think he was
studying. You're studying somewhere where, where
wild boars apparently are because he was confronted
with one unexpectedly. And his, his gut reaction
was to take the book he had been reading and
shove it down the board's throat, which I guess
killed it or, or, you know, something. So he
kills this bore. And then he, I don't know if
he goes and gets help or what the deal is, but
they bring the board back. And this was right
around Christmas time. And they, you know, barbecue
it over a spit and they have a Christmas feast
with this boar as the honored guest. And so they
wrote a song about it. And it's it's this song
that is our music teacher said that it is still
sung on on Christmas Eve or Christmas Day, but
they still do the tradition as well. They get
a board. Yeah. So you may have seen this if you
watched old movies or something like that. They'll
have, you know, the big, the big feast on the
table and kind of in the middle of it, there's
a pig's head with like a, maybe like an apple
in it. You can imagine that except with like
a textbook stuck in its mouth. Um, and, uh, they,
you know, they prepare it, the original, apparently
the original title was a boar's head with mustard.
And they changed it to the Boar's Head Carol
because it's kind of a Christmas tradition. And
so I'm really looking forward to singing it.
And I think it's a really good time. There's
another layer to this as well, because at the
school, we have a dad's group that's called the
Boar's Club. So it was kind of apropos of it.
Yeah. And we actually borrowed that. Now I'm
wondering because We got that name from another
classical school in Idaho that has been around
longer than us, which isn't saying a lot because
we're new, we're pretty new. But they've been
around for a little while and they were the ones
who gave me the idea of kind of initiating like
a dad's kind of social group to discuss and talk
about the school and just talk about other issues
and kind of have fellowship and develop friendships
with the dads amongst the men of the school.
And so theirs was called the Boars Club. And
I was trying to think of an alternative name
and then like, you know, kind of time kind of
got away from me and I just was mentally referring
to it as our boars club. So I was like, let's
just call it the boars club. So now I'm going
to have to send an email and see if those guys
named it after this, this boars head tradition.
Yeah. Uh, and it wouldn't surprise me if they
did. And the genesis of this podcast came out
of the boars club as well, because we were talking
about, uh, I wasn't familiar. I'm not nearly
as educated as my other two. co -host here, but
they were talking about the men of Issachar.
And I just thought, hey, that would be a great
idea for a podcast to talk about things that
are very appropriate to Christians in this day
and age. And I knew that these guys were well
-studied and very current on their knowledge
of issues and politics and whatever else. That
was the Genesis of it. Yeah. So it's all tied
together. Maybe we should change. Do we have
bump music? We can change it to the boars head
Carol, maybe for the Christmas episode. We're
just seeing it maybe. Um, so, uh, that, I thought
that was an amusing anecdote. Um, you know, we've
got, I'm trying to think of some other ones.
Um, so here's, this one's kind of funny too.
So as a, as a kind of a new school plant here,
um, one of the things classical schools are finding.
I apologize. I've got a lingering cough here.
But one of the things that classical schools
are finding is that there's a desire and a need
for the inclusion of what could be called the
common arts. A lot of times it's called common
arts. That's as opposed to liberal arts. Liberal
arts are the more academic side. There will probably
have an episode about that at some point, but
the you've no doubt listener, you've heard the
term liberal arts and you you know, that's not
to be confused with them sort of the modern vernacular
as we use the term liberal to describe like a
politically left person. It's more of a academic
term. But as opposed to the the liberal arts,
we have the common arts and there's a couple
other types of arts, but the common arts is like
trades. So carpentry. You can do modern ones
as well. I mean electronics or electrical contracting
mechanical mechanical work on cars All those
kinds of things that we would consider to be
skilled trades and a funny anecdote from here
recently is that I've assigned a short paper
to my guys that are in the mechanical arts class
and I had them kind of pick a topic and it was
based on what we had been discussing in class
So they each had kind of a different focus But
they asked one day if they could use my class
time to go to the Harbor Freight Tools, which
is like a, I don't know, if you, if you don't
have those wherever you're located, you will
find that Harbor Freight carries kind of an odd
mix of like bottom of the barrel, like cheapo
tools, but there's, there's occasional treasure
to be found there. Radio Shack and Lowe's had
a baby. Yeah. Yeah. A lot of like gimmicky things.
It's a kind of a fun store, but They asked if
they could go look at some stuff there and I
was like okay I mean these I trusted these guys
to be back on time. They were both old enough
to drive I know both sets of parents well enough
and so they were allowed to go and when they
returned they came back about half an hour later
like they brought with them a go -kart engine
that they had bought one of them bought and so
they're now building a go -kart and they're doing
this kind of on their own time but I told them
that when they get it done they've got to bring
it to school and like drive it around so That's,
that's the plan right now. And we're going to
see if they can do it. Yeah. And we, and we,
uh, referenced the book, durable trades in the
last podcast. And that kind of goes along with,
with that, that idea or that spirit. Yeah. Yeah.
They're trying to learn and it's not just a specific
set of skills. There's more, there's more of
a, like a self ownership here, like the, the
willingness and the ability to take on. an unknown
challenge because you've already met and overcome
previous unknown challenges. There's, there's
something to be said for that. Yeah. I've lived
my life by that mantra, if you will. Um, it's,
it's, you just can't be scared to, to do what
God's prepared you to do. Uh, I've, I've done
a lot of different tasks or jobs in my life and
one is built upon the other and Some of them
are completely unrelated, but you know, ends
up in God's plan. They're, they're all necessary.
Yeah. That's this man is, is, uh, one of the
most well -rounded in terms of like, I don't
know, employment history is not even like a,
like a great word. It's like, uh, it's like,
uh, I don't know, like a serial entrepreneur
or something. I guess it's just kind of like
here, here's an idea. I'm just going to go do
it. And, um, That's a, that's a rare type of
person. Entrepreneurship economists say refer
to as a scarce resource. So not everybody has
that. Well, I think, um, I consider myself a
hack of all trades. I'm not quite a Jack of all
trades. It's a step below that. And, um, I think
I'm just stupid enough to believe that I can
do it. And most times with God's help. I can
usually get it mostly done. Can fumble through.
Yeah. I don't know. There's probably a lesson
there. There's, there's a funny little meme that
I saw recently and it's just a, it's, it's a
little cartoon mouse, but the, the caption just
kind of captures the imagination. It just says
you must learn to proceed without certainty,
which is true for life in general. Absolutely.
But there's a lot of folks I think who would
try things if they thought. Well, if I was guaranteed
success, I would definitely do it, but nobody
really ever is. I mean, even things that you're
very confident about aren't really guarantees.
Well, I'm just, I mean, I've, I've come to realize
in my faith journey that I serve a supernatural
God. And if I truly believe that if I truly with
in my bones, if I believe that, then I have to
believe that there's nothing that's impossible.
And I just have some. I'll call it blind courage,
for lack of a better term. And sometimes that's
just how I do it. I'm just like, okay, God, you
put me here. You better stop me. You better stop
me if you don't want me to. And I'm sure that's
probably happened some. Some things don't go
well, but that's another place where trust in
God comes in. Because if something flops, then
do you... Get angry with God. Do you feel like
you or, or do you question yourself or do you
just say, well, this was God's will as well,
you know, um, and, and just trust in his sovereign
plan. But that may be a good, that may be a good
early takeaway from this is if you've got something
that you're thinking about trying and you're
scared to do it, then, then do some soul searching
and think about what your motivation is. Cause
it could be, it could be prudence that's keeping
you from doing it, or it could be that you should
do it. Yeah. One of my key phrases is I'm just,
I throw, throw spaghetti noodles at the wall
to see if they stick. And if they do, then I
just take another step. And sometimes I'll get
several steps in and you know, the ground falls
out from under me and I find myself in a new
place that I can take a step in a different direction
where I couldn't have. Otherwise, you know, I
don't like this kind of hackneyed phrase, but
they like when God closes a door, he opens a
window is kind of, it kind of captures that idea.
Yeah. Um, so sorry, sorry, listener to use that
phrase. I think that's kind of cheesy, but I
think that, I think the spirit of it is not terribly
far off from, uh, from, from the truth. So, all
right, shall we get into this article? Let's
do it. All right. So I, I, um, I work as a one
of my part -time gigs is that I work as a managing
editor for American reformer, which is a journal
for specifically Protestant civic and social
thought the idea is to rejuvenate Protestant
political theology through Having people read,
you know people who are reading primary sources
engaging with those things Doing the work of
political philosophy either professionally or
as layman to contemplate an issue Write their
opinion up on it and so i do managing were edited
work which is really kind of grunt work it's
a very fulfilling career. Side gig because i
get to read all these things which i'm already
interested in anyway and. So i really enjoy it
and we have one that came out today by a guy
named ronald dotson who is a very good follow
on x if you're on there. Very intelligent dude
he's been around done all kinds of stuff. and
is extremely well read, very thoughtful, knowledgeable
about all kinds of philosophies and things of
that nature. So this article that he came out
with today, and the reason why I kind of wanted
to think, this has been on my mind a little bit
in other contexts, but his thesis here, and Ron,
if you're out there, don't skewer me if I don't
get this exactly right, but his thesis is basically
that laws are useful tutors for the immature,
And that when we reach maturity, that wisdom
takes over. And so what he has, and he's using
the incarnation of Christ as an example of this.
So when Jesus came, you can look at the Sermon
on the Mount and you can see, Moses gave you
this law, do not commit murder. But I say, whoever
looks on his brother, you know, whoever hates
his brother is a murderer. So the law instructs
us about What not to do wisdom which Christ imparts
through his his teachings his life and completed
revelation Shows us rather not not just to not
commit murder but to uproot the sin which leads
to murder and And in theory if we're successful
at doing that then actually murdering someone
like physically taking a life never even becomes
an issue So he kind of extrapolates from that,
this concept of like, we are a nation of laws
and not of men, which is sometimes something
that you might hear. Um, we're governed by laws.
Um, but I guess the question that I'm, that I'm
kind of getting at is, do you think that it's
better to have laws as, as kind of this sovereign
entity or should we entrust the wisdom of men?
And what are our pitfalls there? There's a few
obvious ones, but. And just a heads up for the
readers, I have not read this, so. No, no, he's
going in blind. I'm going in blind. So I'm trying
to ask good questions here and we'll see if I'm
successful. We just established you don't mind
going in blind. No, I don't, I don't. It's more
honest that way. My mind immediately goes to
the term laws and I question whether or not that
best describes what God gives us. I think if
we as wise men graduate from the laws, then I
think there are principles. It's more direction
based than actual guideline based. Does that
make sense? Yeah, that's a hard question. My
mind's going in a million different directions
right now. I think Ron would not say that the
laws of God are abrogated, right? Like the moral
laws still hold. You don't, you don't achieve
an evolutionary state where you're so mature
that you now can kill someone. Oh, sure, sure.
Um, and just to clarify that that's not what
his position would be. And I'm wondering if maybe
the idea here is, you know, the law of God is,
is a set of prohibitions and that is helpful
to learn where not to go. We kind of do this
with our children. I think that maybe he would
find that an apt metaphor with regards to maturity.
Don't do this. Don't do that. And as your children
grow, you want, you know, don't leave a mess
behind, right? Like this is a, this is a law
we would hand down, but as your children grow
and mature, you would rather, instead of having
to say, don't leave a mess behind, you would
rather your children walk through a messy room
and say, boy, this is a mess. I'd like to clean
this up. I have a desire to do what is good.
Yeah. My mind, one direction my mind wants to
go is, you know, we, we kind of add to the law,
but I can see the destruction that that led to.
in the days of Jesus with the Pharisees and everything.
That kind of quells that thought. But I think
we could somewhat sharpen those laws to an extent.
I think there would definitely be a line that
you couldn't cross. But I think that with godly
wisdom and guidance by Holy Spirit, we could
definitely hone those somewhat. And yeah, I guess
refine, like what is the spirit of the thing?
What is God really asking you to do when he says
do not murder, do not steal, those kinds of things.
So he references Plato, he likes Plato a lot.
And he has a quote here from Plato that said,
he calls law and legislation a device for making
men good by compulsion. And then Ron follows
up, this is an end quote of Plato. This is Ron
now says, law is medicine, but not health. It
keeps disorder in check, but it cannot create
virtue. It's a bold claim. What do you think
of that claim? Cause we hear this term legislating
morality and a lot of people throw around, well,
you can't legislate morality, but I would, I
would reject that. I would say that really laws
only legislate morality ultimately. I agree with
that. They have an instructive purpose in that.
Yeah, definitely. Now Plato, of course, being
a pagan philosopher, you have to keep that in
mind as well. Paul says, the law was our tutor
until Christ came. He writes, but now that faith
has come, we are no longer under a tutor, referring
to the law as the tutor. So when Paul says, are
we under law? Well, but he also gave us spirit.
Right. So we have a guide now. Um, so I think
that that changed the game pretty substantially.
Yeah. We have the maker of the law residing in
us. Sure. And illuminating that, you know, what,
what does God mean when he says, um, and we,
we have the, we have the complete Canon, you
know, to clarify where there's confusion and
things of that sort. So that's a, that's a very
deep question. Yeah. To wrestle with. Well, let's
ask a more practical question. So we have to
kind of get to like the U S history and U S government
and things like that, where this is kind of on
people's brains. A lot, a lot of people with,
with Trump derangement syndrome and you know,
any, any cult of personality around a political
figure, a legislator or whoever it might be.
this concept of like, well, they're restrained
by laws. We have checks and balances. We have
the Constitution, which the Constitution's job
is to enumerate specific powers and to restrict
abuses. And a debate can probably be had for
a long, long time about whether it's effective
at doing that or if it's being observed today.
But the theory being that the people in this
country are sovereign. We have enacted a constitution
to restrain the government which we elect to
take care of business for us. So would you With
regards to like the wisdom of men versus law
Would you rather be ruled by a wise ruler with
fewer laws? Or would you rather have laws that
govern let's assume that there are laws that
you would agree with and generally but more laws
that would be you know, just kind of enforced
by a an executive function of some kind I would
have to go a step further and Know the heart
of the population. Okay, because even some of
the founding fathers said this government is
for religious people. Right. Right. And without
the upright. Yeah. And, um, John Addis, famous
John Adams quote. Yeah. So without that, then
I think you need more laws, but with morality,
I think you need less. Sure. You know, it's just
less oppressive, less tyrannical. It's good all
around if a moral people can somewhat govern
themselves, and I think that's what we're called
to do. Yeah, and we see this in history. I think
I mentioned last time that I've been reading
the biographies of John Sevier and talking about
the early Watauga settlers, the first people
who came into Tennessee from Virginia, North
Carolina. And the early settlers all came They
were of like mind, they all wanted the same thing.
There was lots of gates to jump through to get
to that point. It was hard. Nobody was really
interested in going over there and being a miscreant
because you couldn't just easily get there. It
was work. So the people that went were going
to build a life for themselves. And for many
years when they got here, there was no law enforcement
or written laws. And it wasn't until a crime
was committed. I think somebody stole a horse
or something along those lines that they're like,
all right, we got to put a court in. We need
a sheriff. We need laws. And everybody kind of
knew already because I think what ended up happening
is when they caught the guy that hanged him.
And but there was technically no law that said
that that was the case. And they weren't sure.
Is this under North Carolina's law? Do we have
a court that has the ability to meet out capital
punishment or like, you know, felonious kind
of penal stuff? And they, they, they went around
and around with North Carolina about that for
a bit. Um, but I think that kind of bears out
the point of like, if you've got a virtuous people
that are all working together on the same mission,
do you need laws? And you can get by with very
few and. You know, like I said, they caught the
guy and they dealt with him. It's not written
down, but everybody knew the rule. You know,
you didn't really need the law. So, um, and they
had leaders. So that may go towards the idea
of do we have wise leaders to deal with issues
as they arise, or do we need laws in place to
deal with issues that arise? Or is it both? I
think it all depends on the volume. Because you
can't efficiently deal with a high volume like
that, but laws let you do that. Laws let you
put mechanical procedures in place in order to
take care of stuff like that. And that's where
we are today. And that's why our justice system
is so huge, just because we deal with so much
law breaking and everything else. Yeah. I was
a cop for four years in Nashville. And when I
would go to General Sessions Court, which is
one of the first stops in the judiciary process
if you're charged with a crime. And your state
probably has something similar wherever you are,
but they may call it something different. But
General Sessions Court is a probable cause hearing.
there enough evidence to believe this person
should be on trial for this matter and the dockets
every single day five days a week multiple general
sessions courtrooms like five or six of them
would be hours long you know there'd be 80 or
100 people with hearing scheduled for that day
and that's that's one city in one state and it
makes you wonder Do we have an overabundance
of laws? I mean, maybe not. Maybe that's evidence
that there should be. That's another good question
to ask. If you have this much misbehavior, then
do we need more? Maybe enforcement is lax. I
don't know. There's a couple of ways to go with
that. The easy answer is we need more Jesus.
But how do you get there? All right, let me see.
I'm looking for another quote here. There was
one specifically that I had in mind. Oh, here
we go. So this is talking about the rule of the
wise. Like, is this an ideal that we should be
kind of hoping for, as opposed to rule by an
overabundance of just legal code. So he's referencing
Solomon. It says, biblical kingship shows the
same hierarchy. Solomon's judgment between the
two mothers is not a legal formula, but a revelation
of the heart. His wisdom fulfills the law's intent
rather than applying its letter. Christ on the
Mount completes this pattern you have heard it
said but I say to you each antithesis moves the
rule from rule to reason from restraint to renewal
the law forbids murder wisdom roots out hatred
the law condemns adultery wisdom purifies desire
the King governs by wisdom not by code the code
trains the King it does not sheath his sword
That's an interesting reference to Solomon. He's
referencing if you're not familiar with this
Solomon very famous legal case brought before
Solomon, right? There's two mothers, both have
infants. One of them had rolled over and smothered
her infant in the night and they both woke up
the next day and claimed the surviving infant
was theirs. So they're brought before the king
because everyone's probably afraid to touch that.
and deal with it. And so he says, all right,
we can't figure this out. Bring me a sword. I'll
cut the baby in half, and you can each have half.
And the woman who was the mother said, no, just
give the baby away to her. I'd rather him stay
alive. And then by that discernment, Solomon
was able to say, well, you're the real one, so
give the baby to her. Right. This is kind of
a famous example of Solomon's wisdom. He's purported
to be, by the Holy Scriptures, the wisest man
who ever lived, with the exception of Christ.
And so, you know, obviously the law doesn't say,
well, if there's a dispute about a baby, cut
it in half, right? That's not what the rule was.
So he had to apply this in a way that was wise.
I think there are multiple examples of King's
wisdom or even not King's, but like very powerful
people like Joseph. His wisdom was obviously
abundant. And it was wisdom that came from God
through dreams and whatnot. Yeah, just all through
the Bible, you can see King's wisdom being treasured
and guiding God's people all throughout the Bible.
Yeah. Yeah, and you could even say, just to kind
of bring it back to the Mendevissachar idea,
if you look through the records of the Kings
in Chronicles, you'll see that the pattern is
you have the King's name given. They're kind
of dates of their rule and then there's usually
an assessment of their rule. Were they a good
king or not? And the good kings were the ones
who knew what time it was and knew what to do.
You know, like they they went out and hacked
down the Asherah poles right for idol worship.
They got rid of idols or they didn't. That was
that was often what it boiled down to. And there's
there's lots more detail about some of the specific
ones. But, you know, did they did they return
to God or did they move away from God? Was it
was often kind of litmus test is this a good
king or not? You know another example of a wise
man wasn't a king, but he was he was very important
was Daniel That's one that I always think of
I tend to think of him as behind Solomon probably
the next most Wise that I can that I can think
of and he had divine insight But you know he
he just was and everybody recognized that right
like even the pagans recognized that that Daniel
was a particularly gifted Thinker and he might
have been like an actual intellectual genius.
We don't really know that but Definitely had
the wisdom that King sought after and they held
him You know even after the he served under Nebuchadnezzar
and Nebuchadnezzar his nephew who was ousted
by the Persians The Persians didn't just send
him away. They kept him on right that they recognized
that this is This is an asset that the net that
the kings of Babylon had and we're gonna we're
gonna use this as well. Yeah Yeah, I mean you
could you can name example after example like
King David, Joshua, and Jericho. And there's
a direct line with being close to God and having
wisdom. I think you could also make that correlation.
Sure. The fear of the Lord is the beginning of
wisdom, right? Oh, sure. It would seem to be,
I don't know if this is necessarily deduced directly,
but the more you fear the Lord, it seems like
the more wisdom you will seek from Him. And He
is a good God, and He gives good gifts, and He
will... Give you wisdom and proverbs says wisdom
just calls out in the street for anyone who will
listen so it's it's relatively low -hanging fruit
we have it all written down and Prayer is at
your fingertips and godly counsel from other
Christians is available So seek those people
out too Sure. Now let's let's ask this question.
Do you think Trump is a wise ruler? That's who's
that's who's in office at the time I think he
has his moments. He has certain strong points
of wisdom. And there are certain things that
I think that he's doing that are very wise as
far as business wise. I tend not to focus on
the character because you could, I mean, anybody
could tear that down. But at the same time, I
see that being somewhat of a necessity in the
swamp that he's in. He has to be strong. in certain
ways. And that, and that lends itself to the
character traits that he has. It's a little bit
of a reflection on the system he's in too. Like
he's going to succeed in this. And he, you know,
he's from the cutthroat business world too. And
that, that comes through a little bit, but overall,
I think he's the right man for the right job.
People are, are harping on The whole White House
thing now. Sure. Where he's wanting to build
the ballrooms and everything else. And the plans
for that have been in existence for decades.
Sure. And I, yeah, I remember him talking about
this quite a while ago. Like he was excited about
this. If you haven't heard of this that if you
do if you don't know the White House is architectural
layout I can forgive you for that because not
many people do but the White House itself the
thing you see on TV The actual big tall kind
of squarish structure that's white. That's a
relatively small portion of it There's the East
Wing and West Wing that both go off with I can't
remember what they call those walkways, but they're
kind of outdoor walkways that are covered And
one side, the West Wing, I believe goes off to
where the actual Oval Office is. The Oval Office
is not even in that structure that you see. It's
in the next building along. There's even more
underground. And there's a bunch. They have a
bowling alley down there. Um, so the West Wing
is mostly where like the business office side
is. And that's so when you see, like, if you
watch the West Wing show, which I don't recommend.
My friends are gonna are gonna come after me
for saying that but then wandering around the
hallways talking about things that's often not
in the residential part of the building and then
the east wing Had until recently had a two -story
structure which was where visitors would enter
and they would have your metal detector and stuff
like that and then there was a I think the first
lady had an office in there on the second floor
and There's just kind of some receiving areas.
So that's what was demolished. It's not the,
the, the residents like the historical residents
part. It's that East wing part. And they're going
to, they're going to rebuild a larger structure
where that East wing was. And this is not unprecedented.
Um, Abraham Lincoln did expand extensive renovations
on it. And I can't, there was another president
that nearly tore the thing down, trying to renovate
the interior. And that makes sense. It's a 200
and something year old building. Yeah. It's gotta
be fixed from time to time. So. You know that
kind of brings up the old question of I think
it's the question of Odysseus's ship and sometimes
it's applied to other things but And I'll pose
the opposite I'll pose the question to you to
see if what you think So well, I'll use a more
modern example because this one actually is in
existence So Lord Horatio Nelson like the best
Admiral that the British ever had fought Napoleon
won great battles It was eventually killed in
a naval battle, but his ship, the HMS Victory,
is, I think, still to this day docked at Portsmouth
in England. And it's like a floating museum.
But over the years, the wooden ship has had to
have pieces and parts replaced. So if, in theory,
the thing lasts long enough that they have to
replace every single piece of wood, is it still
the Victory? Like none of it is the original.
that they would have come out of dry dock with
in 18, whatever 17, whatever it was built. I
would argue it is. Yeah. So that begs the question
of what is the, you know, what makes it the victory?
It's, it's the, I guess the, the purpose behind
it. It's the usefulness of it. It's the job that
it enables. Sure. So wherever the president lives
is the white house. Kind of. Yeah. But there's,
there's more to that. that picture because Trump
is, he is wanting to beautify Washington DC and
he is wanting to improve Washington DC. And that's
just one of the many ways that he's looking to
do that. There's always going to be naysayers
and there's always going to be opposition. Sure.
But I think he truly means well for Washington
DC and he appreciates beauty and I think as Christians,
we are called to appreciate beauty. Yeah, I think
so. And to probably, you know, maybe this is
too far, but maybe we should be obligated to
patronize the arts in a way. Like, I can't build
a ballroom, right? But my understanding is that
he's building this at his own expense, and I
could be wrong there, but... If a sitting president
wants to use his own money to build a ballroom,
it's not a golf course or a bar. Like this is
a ballroom. But that's within his character and
that should speak to the way you think of Trump.
He's willing to do things at his own expense
much of the time. If it's what needs to be done
in his opinion. I think he's shown that before.
This is just a kind of a dramatic example of
it, I guess. Yep. You think Vance is a wiser
ruler? I think he's a different type of guy.
Yeah. I think he has, he has boldness like Trump
does, but I think he has more reservedness about
his character. I think he, he's more careful
than Trump. Trump's kind of a bull in a china
shop. Yeah. Vance is, I think he, he measures
twice before he cuts. Yeah, maybe so, maybe so.
I think that. That's one way you could look at
the difference between Trump and Vance. But at
the same time, I think Trump has a, he has a
vision. There's a long game unfolding that we
don't even see yet that Trump has, I believe.
Just because I've seen, I've seen evidence of
that in some of the actions that he's taken,
just that have unfolded and uncovered. Yeah.
You know, I think Trump has demonstrated that
he's concerned about legacy in a way that a lot
of politicians Don't seem to a lot of them and
this is this may be a hasty judgment to make
in some cases But it also often feels like they're
in it for themselves They're president for four
or eight years and they're gonna do what they
think they can do for that time Trump seems to
be more concerned with you know What who's taken
over? Um, and I don't know that he's ever necessarily
said those words, but he's built a movement,
which is, um, different. Um, and you know, lots
of, lots of ink has been spilled and lots of
podcasts abound about the MAGA movement itself.
And, uh, I find it interesting that while it,
you could look out from the outside and say,
well, this is just a cult of personality around
Trump, but I'm just not so convinced. I think
that MAGA is probably going to outlive him. Yeah.
Um, I think you could look at it in a fatherly
way. Uh, he's, he's kind of training his sons
for lack of a better term and not his actual
sons, but possibly his actual sons to follow
in his footsteps. He's, he's creating a path
that is sustainable. He's, he's not just, you
know, serving his, his time and just saying,
well, whatever happens next, I have no. Yeah.
I'm just out. I got mine. Yeah. He's, he's really
setting the stage. Well, yeah. Yeah. And kind
of to tie that back in, do you think that that
kind of like succession planning, um, legacy
focused mindset, is that a mark of a wise ruler?
I think so. I really do in that way. Yes. Um,
that's, that's just not something that we're
used to in our politicians. Yeah. Is that type
of wisdom, but maybe one of the shortcomings
of the system that we have, right? Like you have
term limits and therefore this is one of the
arguments that I've heard for monarchy. And,
um, you know, a King will pass on his kingdom
to his children in some form. And so the incentive.
kind of like it would be for a private citizen
to build wealth so that they can have an inheritance
for their kids, which doesn't motivate everyone
to do that. But it's a motivator. And it is something
that people consider when they have kids. I want
to at least make it to where I'm not a burden.
If not, give them more than I had. So if you
got a king who's got a kingdom, he's got a son
or he's got a daughter who will marry a son who
he can then pass on through his own family line.
He's got this incentive to pass on a healthy
kingdom that is Preferably stronger than it was
when he took it or, you know, ready for a, you
know, the, the rule of the new one and to raise
the sun up in such a way that that son will manage
it well and hold it in trust for the next generation.
And presidents don't really have that incentive
unless they are personally motivated, like what
would seem to be the case with Trump. Like he
kind of wants. Yeah. And, and you see, uh, his,
uh, his younger sons. you see them weighing in
on some of his decisions because they, they know
the, the times and they can speak into the more
current issues. Yeah. I've, you know, Baron Baron
kind of became a meme in the last election as
sort of a new, like a, like a right -wing kind
of Messiah type figure. And that was done with
a little tongue in cheek, but I wouldn't at all
be surprised if he had a future in politics.
He seems to have the gravitas and there's less
of the He seems less rough around the edges in
ways that his dad is. So he may be around. Well,
you see that in all of Trump's kids. They're
more refined, at least to certain extents, especially
his daughter. His daughter is very classy and
she doesn't speak out anywhere close to what
Trump does. Yeah, they're more measured. Yeah.
More controlled. I wouldn't say self -control
is one of, and I believe he's grown in that area.
He has. There's a big difference ever since the
assassination attempt. I think, uh, it has given
him a new outlook on a lot of things. Well, that's
a, that's, that's our assessment of, of Trump
with this would, you know, Vance is looking like
he's probably going to run next. I think that's
likely, or at least sometime soon. So we'll,
you know, we'll see what happens next, I suppose.
Anyway, so this was this was wrong. So to bring
it back if you're interested in this idea, um,
you can engage with this article on on americanreformer
.org Where you'll find it. It just came out on
today's the 29th. Uh, yes Yeah, so today's 29th
of october. So that's the date that it came out
and the title of the article is the rule of the
incarnate and again, the thesis is this idea
that Societies are kind of the subtext is that
societies are better off governed by wise rulers
than they are by an abundance of laws and that's
that's a thesis which you can disagree with but
you should look into it and Read it and see if
you find this convincing or interesting And I
don't think that he's necessarily advocating
for a monarchy, you know He might if he were
in the room with us He might say he would rather
have that if he could you know, just snap his
fingers. I don't know You know, would you rather
have a wise president or wise ruler wise judges?
We all kind of want these things. Um, and if
you could trade in a bunch of our laws and, and,
and get an exchange wise rulers and governors
and judges, I don't know that there's a lot of
people who would say, nah, I'd rather just have
a bunch of laws. Yeah. Yeah. If, if, if there
was a way for him to be omnipresent in all the
courtrooms across the nation, then. That would
be one thing, but I think with the sheer volume
that we deal with today, it would lead to more
chaos, I think, than it would lead to order.
Society would not be ready for that kind of thing
yet. Yeah, that's more of a utopianistic ideal.
I mean, in the practical space, I think laws
are required. And even the laws we have, if you're
of a mind that we have too many or that they're
excessively burdensome or maybe pedantic or something,
you know, they're just kind of petty. We still
need wise application. Sure. And I think that's
what's lacking in our whole society, and judges
included, because judges are, you know, they're
the arbiter of... They're kind of the front line.
Yeah. And they are supposed to be the wise ones.
Yeah. and they can enforce or choose to overlook
certain things. Certain things they can't overlook,
but there are certain things that they can. And
they can make judgments on situations that are...
Sometimes they hang as crimes, you know, like
they still have wide leeway and they're protected
from consequences in a lot of cases. I think
there's probably limits to that. I don't know
exactly what they are. A lawyer could probably
sound off about that, but... You know, that kind
of begs the question. And the judiciary in general
is kind of, if you're a political conservative,
they're kind of, you know, they're kind of on
the hit list right now, proverbially, for being
obstructing a lot of things. Frustration about
poor enforcement of crime. This was the situation
in Charlotte, right, with... The girl who was
stabbed on the train, that guy was arrested a
whole bunch of times. I don't remember the number,
but it was enough that people were like, why
was he out? Why was he out walking around? And
the theory of course being, well, judges kept
letting him go, which is quite possibly accurate.
I don't know. But, uh, would you rather have,
I mean, would you rather take the judge, the
judge's subjective judgment out and just say,
I mean, there's people who've advocated for things
like let an AI do the judging. I think that's
where we're headed. Yeah. Like a neutral letter
of the law only. I don't know if I like that.
I'm frustrated with judges too. Yeah. I just
think it's what school that you subscribe to
as far as being a judge. If you are more conservative,
I think you're going to be a more just judge.
You're going to be a more lax judge if you're
left leaning. Yeah. That seems to be the trend.
I'm sure there's a few exceptions, but that seems
to be what we see. All right, well, let's shift
to something more lighthearted, shall we? Yeah,
let's do it. Unless you want to go on with that.
So we just had the bison stew at your bison ranch.
Yeah. Tell me about the bison stew. Well, we've
done it for over 30 years. My family, on our
family farm, we always get together at a designated
time. I'll start out about, I started at seven
30 in the morning. I hung the kettles on a, on
the chains that we had made. We've got a whole
structure we put up and we create fires under
that and start boiling some water. And then we
put the bison meat in and we put the, all the
different ingredients, the tomatoes or tomato
paste and tomato sauce. potatoes and carrots
and onions. And we, we have a recipe that at
different points during the day, we, we put them
in and it's from an old recipe we got from a,
it was a horseback riders club from way back
in my early childhood. I mean, I was little,
I was probably five or six years old whenever
we got this recipe. And my dad has just treasured
it and We have, you know, between two and 300
people probably there at the farm. Yeah. I didn't
know that. I kind of thought it was going to
be like 30, not get there. And it's a whole thing.
You got a bunch of, yeah, we even have music
there at the barn. Well, that's when I, that
was my first clue that it was kind of a bigger
deal when you were like, well, there's going
to be live music. I was like, Oh, this is a thing.
This is a big old thing. So, yeah, it's just,
it's just something my family is, has done as
a, as a deep rooted tradition. Yeah, and we just
love to we love to share what we've been blessed
with and the bison stew is I think a tradition
that could be lost and we just we're trying to
keep it up and keep going strong Well, it seems
pretty strong at the moment and I hope it keeps
up too. That's the kind of cultural artifact
that Those are the kinds of things that when
you take for granted whatever you take for granted
the next generation will lose. Yeah And, you
know, I know that you're passing it on because
my little girl's in class with yours, and they
were talking about having to rest their hands
that day so that they would be ready to peel
potatoes. Well, yeah, the night before, I mean,
it's a big undertaking. And we have about between
15 and 20 people come the night before, and we'll
peel, goodness, probably close to 100 pounds
of potatoes. and cut up onions and get carrots
and everything ready. And just, you know, we're,
we're preparing, we put it all on ice so that
the next day when we're ready for it, we can
just dump it in. Cause there's no way we could,
we could do all that needs to be done the day
of. I mean, it's five big, you know, between
25 and 35 gallon kettles. Yeah. They were serious,
man. It looked like a witch's brew. Um, it was
the proper, proper stew. Um, it was also very
good. I had the spicy kind. Yeah. We cook, uh,
we cook a traditional, uh, we cook a vegetable
bison. We cook, uh, medium spice, very difficult
to raise vegetable bisons. It's not vegetarian.
It's bison stew with more vegetables in it, and
then we have the spicy. My late brother, he was
always putting a little extra spice in, so we
had to put some in for his memory. Pour a little
extra in for him, yeah. Now, there was an anecdote
that your wife shared with me about the burgers.
Do you mind sharing that? Oh, no. It's a tradition
that also comes from my late brother. these burgers
one time a year and you get salting crackers
and you crush them up and then you infuse it
with all the meat. You season the meat when you
put the crackers in it. So the seasoning is all
throughout the meat. We cook those and they're,
they're probably an inch and a half thick burgers.
They're great, great big substantial burgers.
That's just a tradition as well that runs parallel
to the stew cook. for all those that help us.
The thing that I really liked about that that
she shared was that this was something that your
brother had been doing and that with him not
being there, that your son said he wanted to
take over. Yep, he did. That brings a tear to
the eye. With this idea of like, well, we're
not going to, you know, we want the next generation
to carry this on. This is important to, you know,
it's, it's sentimental, but also like this, this
is something of interest to me because that's
kind of how I view my work as a teacher is I
want the next generation to have access to the
things that the generation before me gave me.
It's just really nice to see that trust passed
on even in something as, you know, this is not
world peace. This is, but this is a important
family tradition that this guy, this young man,
a relatively young man has recognized the importance
of and has a desire to carry it forward. And
one day his son maybe will make them as well.
Yeah. And my father is very good about all that.
He loves passing down those tradition rich, you
know, things like we have a live nativity at
our farm every year. It's always the first Saturday
in December. And we make stockings for We'd probably
make seven or 800 stockings and just hand them
out to kids around that area. And there's several
kids around there that don't have much financially.
And that's one of the big things that they get.
My dad is like Santa Claus and John Wayne infused
together. Basically, man, I would watch a movie
about that. Okay, everyone pause and insert Jeff
from this point forward He just showed up so
we give him a short synopsis of the subjects
that we've been speaking on and he gives us a
quick comment and You may hear a tiny bit of
info Repeated as Jeff hears it, but I think it's
worth getting his input from this point out.
So now back to the podcast I'm glad y 'all are
talking about that. It is governance by layering
rules is is corruption, really. You're trying
to manipulate people rather than grow them in
wisdom. And it's a problem. It's so convenient,
so easy, right? Yeah. Just add another rule.
I think the classic example for me about a wise
ruler punishes evildoers. I worked at a trucking
company here in town for a number of years. And
there were like five guys who went outside every
break and just smoked cigarettes. And every day
that they did it at every break would get an
email saying, please don't smoke at the entrance
of the, uh, of the building. All it really would
have took. And the reason that it, you know,
it never changed anything. They would just send
the email. They would never go deal with the
actual rule breaker. And what it ended up doing
was undermining anybody's sense of respect for
the authority. Now we're talking about bison
stew. Oh gosh. Yeah. Guys, if you ever get a
chance to go to Lazy G and eat bison stew, you've
got to make the trip. That was unreal, Jason.
Do y 'all cook it over the fire or do you kind
of pre prep it and then put the fire? I mean,
everything's cooked. I started at seven 30 in
the morning and we boil water. I put the meat
in and then. We have a, we have a set list and
a way that we add all the different components.
Doing some alchemy in there and they've got the
old recipe book out. It was legitimately, well,
I mean, Bison's good to start with, but it was
turning into gold. Um, You know, my favorite
part was the hockey puck of bison that was in
a couple of those. Yeah. And I remember being
like, do I need to get a fork or maybe a pitchfork
to get this in my mouth? But you could cut it
with the spoon. You just bite a piece off. It
was unreal. It's boy. I mean, that's the first
thing that we put in. So it's cooked all day
long. So it just falls apart. Usually it was
unreal, man. Unreal. Everything I go to out there
is top notch. Y 'all, y 'all do it right. Big
Eddie likes to do it right. Go big or go home.
Yeah. I also got fascinated looking at the mules
that he was pulling the hay rod with. I've got
a little nephew who, I say a little nephew, he's
young compared to my old self, but he's got a
nice set of mules that he pulls a covered wagon
with, but man, those were some pretty animals.
That's W .J. Stacks and he's from around Rickman
and he still logs. Oh yeah. I mean, he's probably,
he's probably Well into his seventies and he
logs with, with mules, the old fashioned way.
And he's just a standup guy. He's a great guy.
Well, it looks like he takes care of his animals
too. You can learn a lot about a man, about how
he takes care of his animals. Yeah, he does.
And he, he raises a lot of them and he sold a
lot of animals over the years. There's a Mennonite
community. kind of Southeast of us and they still
run draft horses. And man, that's an impressive
thing to go watch. Oh yeah. We used to have two
big Belgians and man, they were beautiful. We
just, we felt bad not utilizing them. So we sold
them to someone who, who would, but now we have
two quarter horses. They're half quarter horse,
half Clydesdale. Okay. And they're full sisters
and they're from out West and They're growing
up to be beautiful horses and we're going to
train them to pull. We have a real stage coach
and we're going to train them to pull that. That's
cool. I used to ride quarter horses and walking
horses when I was a kid. I miss doing that. I
keep thinking when we get a fence built, I might
have to buy one of my daughters a horse. Don't
tell her that. I've been around horses my whole
life. My family has been highly successful. and
highly competitive in both walking horses and
cutting horses, which are quarter horses. My
brother's wife, she put herself through college
and she represented the United States of America
in international cutting. Wow. And my first cousin
was grand champion of the world in walking horses
for like three years. He had a legendary horse
and it's still known, Big Bad John. Yeah. But
I've never gotten to be around them, because
I'm allergic to them. Zyrtec won't fix it. Just
the walking horses, though. Other horses are
fine. Tennessee walkers are... So walking horse
is one of our state animals. I mean, they are
a fabulous watch. If you just watch them operate.
It's really amazing. Maybe for some other episode,
but you know. We kind of famously say that dogs
are man's best friend, and it clearly does seem
like the Lord gave dogs in a unique way, at least
to the West. But horses and cattle, or, you know,
bison, but horses and cattle have done a lot.
Ruminants have done a lot for mankind, too. Horses
have a special place in the human race and God's
plan. I mean, even the Bible says the Lord rides
a white horse. I was about to say. And that's
obviously a symbol of power and victory. You
know, depending on who you ask that may be metaphorical
language, but horses are special. And there's
a, there's a guy up the hall from us that has
a little horse riding school that he does. And
his, his technique is that he buys wild Mustangs
for like 150 bucks. We've got two of them. Yeah.
And, um, he says he's got a horse there. He's
like, I wouldn't sell this thing for $25 ,000
because I've put so much work into, and he loves
that horse. Um, but that's kind of how he gets
his animals and then he's just got the skills
to turn it into a useful thing. But it's just,
you take a wild animal. There's not a whole lot
of wild animals that you can just make into a,
you know, go, go catch a raccoon sometime and
see how long it takes to get it to domesticate.
Terry speaking from experience. Yeah. Well we
had, ours is a domestic, I have a raccoon, which
is another state animal for our state, but it
comes from multiple generations of being, uh,
pets and it's still very prickly about certain
things. And so you know there's just some animals
that are, I don't really recommend raccoons as
a pet having some experience with that. But you
know horses and dogs and I don't know, I'm partially
convinced that bears one day will be domesticated
animals. I've seen them. They like, they want
to be around us. I want to hang around. They
want to eat what we eat. That's how we got dogs,
you know, they came up to the campfire and somebody
said, here you go. We need to train one of those
old school wrestling bears, you know, that have
these competitions, declaw them and wrestle them.
Home defense bear. I think horses symbolize just
bridle power. Cause they, they are just so majestic
in the strength that they have. They're very
loyal. I've been around enough people that are
around horses to learn some things about them.
And they are very loyal to different people.
And they can tell the difference in someone with
good motives and someone with bad motives. Well,
I mean, I guess probably kind of my being in
life is that I'm inclined to think of these things
as frou -frou. I've just been won over by the
empirical evidence. There was a horse therapy
place up in East Tennessee and kids who had real
trouble, man, they would bond with a horse and
it made real improvements in their life. And
I just saw it enough. I'm like, this is not hippie
stuff. There's something to it. I don't know
if we'll ever be able to quantify it, but that's
why I kind of went to cattle, dogs, and horses.
There's something about them that they have a
unique relationship to humanity. And it goes
beyond mere Utility yeah, yeah, and there's a
there's a link between the bison and the Native
Americans Oh for sure That it blows my mind You
can go on YouTube and search up the lazy G and
there's a there's a video where my stepmom talks
about one day there was a there was a Native
American lady that came up and she said can I
sing to the bison and Frida said, sure, I guess
if you want to. And she started singing in her
native tongue and the bison that were there,
they were about between 30 and 40 bison and they
all laid down. Really? And they just, there's,
I don't know, I don't know how to, how to explain
it or how to quantify it, but they, there's a
direct link. Like with the Native Americans and
the bison Well, yeah, I mean that would make
maybe it's a cultural thing. Maybe horse cattle
dog is for Westerners. Maybe Native Americans.
It's bison But you know if that's a food supply
you do become what you eat you have a connection
to the things that compose who you are and Again
can't ever quantify it. Maybe the Lord would
explain it in glory someday, but That they have
some kind of community connection. Yeah, I'm
very open to them. Well, you know, Tolkien talked
about this and I can't remember what it was in.
But he he was kind of complaining like we don't
eat food grown on our own land. We don't drink
the water that comes out of our own creeks. And
that's the reason why people don't you don't
hear stories of people seeing wood nymphs and
water sprites anymore. And I'm not sure how literal
he was being, but the idea of like we've lost
our connection to the places where we actually
live and I've always found that to be an intriguing
concept. I'm not necessarily looking to see fairies
in the woods. I actually think there's some of
this in Aquinas, too. I've not sussed it all
the way out, but he certainly believed in subordinate,
regional spirits. And it would make sense to
me, you know, that there's that old tradition
of when a baby was born, they'd go tell it to
the trees. They'd go to the woods and let them
know. I think we talked about this last episode.
Lewis called it chronological snobbery to assume
that those people are idiots for doing that.
They had some good reason to do that. Yeah. I
mean, I think there's definitely a dominion over
certain lands that was given to different spiritual
entities. Yeah, the Bible seems to indicate that.
Prince of Persia, all that, you know, you can
go as far as you want to. You don't just have
to take like the little hints of like Prince
of Persia, the Prince of Israel, your people.
The Lord clearly is pleased to distribute His
own greater ultimate authority through subordinate
authorities. You know, nobody has a problem saying
He administers His authority to restrain evil
through the government, or to cultivate humans
through the family, or to cultivate virtue and
discipleship through the church. I imagine regionally
there's probably some kind of distribution too.
Well guys, thanks for, I think that's going to
wrap things up. Thanks for coming and thanks
for all the conversations. Sorry, I missed all
of it. It's all right. Well, you missed some
of it, but you came in there. You can listen
to it when it comes out. I definitely will. Definitely
will. Well, I guess we'll catch you guys next
time. The drink put me down and the pills woke
me up Spirit came by to feed on my lust Hooked
on a craving, smothered in doubt Then I found
Jesus and he broke me out