WEBVTT

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Welcome back to the second episode of the Men

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of Issachar podcast. This week we're going to

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take a look at a Christmas song. We're going

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to discuss laws versus rulers. We'll discuss

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a little bit about Trump, bison stew and cheeseburgers

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and creating legacies with your family and farm

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animals among many other things. So sit back

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and relax. We're rolling. Welcome back to the

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Men of Issachar podcast, our second attempt at

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a podcast, our second episode. So if you're new

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to the program, which you are because we are,

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then this is a podcast where we discuss all kinds

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of things. And the idea behind it, if you're

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not familiar with the scripture references, that

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the Bible describes the men of Issachar who knew

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the times and what to do. And so that's kind

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of the theme. Do we know the times and do we

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know what to do? And so we'll be discussing a

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variety of things. So I am Terry and I'm here

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with Jason. It's just us two for now. We'll see

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if our third co -host joins us, Jeff, he might

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be here and we'll sneak him in. At some point

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he'll just start talking and that's how you'll

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know he's here. So I'd like to start us off with

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a interesting anecdote that I learned today.

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Um, we've been, we've been preparing, if you

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don't know this, this is being recorded in a

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school and we are, uh, uh, we are preparing for,

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uh, at the time of this recording, we're preparing

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for Christmas, um, Christmas caroling events.

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So one of the, one of the things that we really

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want to be is a school that sings well, sings

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with elevated culture and tries to. seeing beautiful

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things and unique things and kind of reach back

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into the past and look for forgotten things that

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were beautiful that have kind of been left behind

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in the dustbin of history as you might say and

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our music teacher found because she wanted to

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give parts to to women's voices and she wanted

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to give some for the male voices as well so she

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found a really good carol for the ladies to sing

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called Coventry Carol which is a which is a very

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beautiful song you should look that up And for

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the men, she found one that I had never heard

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of call it. Have you heard, had you heard of

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this before? I'd never heard of this. Okay. This

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is called the boars head Carol. And, um, apparently

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the story goes that a, a student at, I think

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it was Oxford Queens college. It was, it was,

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it was somewhere, somewhere in the United Kingdom,

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um, very old college. I imagine, uh, was, was

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wandering about campus one evening with his volume

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of Aristotle. He was studying. I think he was

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studying. You're studying somewhere where, where

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wild boars apparently are because he was confronted

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with one unexpectedly. And his, his gut reaction

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was to take the book he had been reading and

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shove it down the board's throat, which I guess

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killed it or, or, you know, something. So he

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kills this bore. And then he, I don't know if

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he goes and gets help or what the deal is, but

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they bring the board back. And this was right

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around Christmas time. And they, you know, barbecue

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it over a spit and they have a Christmas feast

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with this boar as the honored guest. And so they

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wrote a song about it. And it's it's this song

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that is our music teacher said that it is still

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sung on on Christmas Eve or Christmas Day, but

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they still do the tradition as well. They get

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a board. Yeah. So you may have seen this if you

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watched old movies or something like that. They'll

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have, you know, the big, the big feast on the

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table and kind of in the middle of it, there's

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a pig's head with like a, maybe like an apple

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in it. You can imagine that except with like

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a textbook stuck in its mouth. Um, and, uh, they,

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you know, they prepare it, the original, apparently

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the original title was a boar's head with mustard.

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And they changed it to the Boar's Head Carol

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because it's kind of a Christmas tradition. And

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so I'm really looking forward to singing it.

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And I think it's a really good time. There's

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another layer to this as well, because at the

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school, we have a dad's group that's called the

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Boar's Club. So it was kind of apropos of it.

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Yeah. And we actually borrowed that. Now I'm

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wondering because We got that name from another

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classical school in Idaho that has been around

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longer than us, which isn't saying a lot because

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we're new, we're pretty new. But they've been

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around for a little while and they were the ones

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who gave me the idea of kind of initiating like

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a dad's kind of social group to discuss and talk

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about the school and just talk about other issues

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and kind of have fellowship and develop friendships

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with the dads amongst the men of the school.

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And so theirs was called the Boars Club. And

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I was trying to think of an alternative name

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and then like, you know, kind of time kind of

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got away from me and I just was mentally referring

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to it as our boars club. So I was like, let's

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just call it the boars club. So now I'm going

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to have to send an email and see if those guys

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named it after this, this boars head tradition.

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Yeah. Uh, and it wouldn't surprise me if they

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did. And the genesis of this podcast came out

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of the boars club as well, because we were talking

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about, uh, I wasn't familiar. I'm not nearly

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as educated as my other two. co -host here, but

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they were talking about the men of Issachar.

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And I just thought, hey, that would be a great

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idea for a podcast to talk about things that

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are very appropriate to Christians in this day

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and age. And I knew that these guys were well

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-studied and very current on their knowledge

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of issues and politics and whatever else. That

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was the Genesis of it. Yeah. So it's all tied

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together. Maybe we should change. Do we have

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bump music? We can change it to the boars head

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Carol, maybe for the Christmas episode. We're

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just seeing it maybe. Um, so, uh, that, I thought

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that was an amusing anecdote. Um, you know, we've

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got, I'm trying to think of some other ones.

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Um, so here's, this one's kind of funny too.

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So as a, as a kind of a new school plant here,

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um, one of the things classical schools are finding.

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I apologize. I've got a lingering cough here.

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But one of the things that classical schools

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are finding is that there's a desire and a need

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for the inclusion of what could be called the

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common arts. A lot of times it's called common

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arts. That's as opposed to liberal arts. Liberal

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arts are the more academic side. There will probably

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have an episode about that at some point, but

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the you've no doubt listener, you've heard the

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term liberal arts and you you know, that's not

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to be confused with them sort of the modern vernacular

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as we use the term liberal to describe like a

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politically left person. It's more of a academic

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term. But as opposed to the the liberal arts,

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we have the common arts and there's a couple

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other types of arts, but the common arts is like

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trades. So carpentry. You can do modern ones

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as well. I mean electronics or electrical contracting

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mechanical mechanical work on cars All those

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kinds of things that we would consider to be

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skilled trades and a funny anecdote from here

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recently is that I've assigned a short paper

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to my guys that are in the mechanical arts class

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and I had them kind of pick a topic and it was

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based on what we had been discussing in class

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So they each had kind of a different focus But

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they asked one day if they could use my class

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time to go to the Harbor Freight Tools, which

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is like a, I don't know, if you, if you don't

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have those wherever you're located, you will

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find that Harbor Freight carries kind of an odd

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mix of like bottom of the barrel, like cheapo

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tools, but there's, there's occasional treasure

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to be found there. Radio Shack and Lowe's had

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a baby. Yeah. Yeah. A lot of like gimmicky things.

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It's a kind of a fun store, but They asked if

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they could go look at some stuff there and I

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was like okay I mean these I trusted these guys

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to be back on time. They were both old enough

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to drive I know both sets of parents well enough

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and so they were allowed to go and when they

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returned they came back about half an hour later

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like they brought with them a go -kart engine

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that they had bought one of them bought and so

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they're now building a go -kart and they're doing

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this kind of on their own time but I told them

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that when they get it done they've got to bring

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it to school and like drive it around so That's,

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that's the plan right now. And we're going to

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see if they can do it. Yeah. And we, and we,

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uh, referenced the book, durable trades in the

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last podcast. And that kind of goes along with,

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with that, that idea or that spirit. Yeah. Yeah.

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They're trying to learn and it's not just a specific

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set of skills. There's more, there's more of

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a, like a self ownership here, like the, the

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willingness and the ability to take on. an unknown

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challenge because you've already met and overcome

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previous unknown challenges. There's, there's

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something to be said for that. Yeah. I've lived

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my life by that mantra, if you will. Um, it's,

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it's, you just can't be scared to, to do what

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God's prepared you to do. Uh, I've, I've done

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a lot of different tasks or jobs in my life and

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one is built upon the other and Some of them

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are completely unrelated, but you know, ends

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up in God's plan. They're, they're all necessary.

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Yeah. That's this man is, is, uh, one of the

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most well -rounded in terms of like, I don't

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know, employment history is not even like a,

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like a great word. It's like, uh, it's like,

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uh, I don't know, like a serial entrepreneur

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or something. I guess it's just kind of like

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here, here's an idea. I'm just going to go do

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it. And, um, That's a, that's a rare type of

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person. Entrepreneurship economists say refer

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to as a scarce resource. So not everybody has

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that. Well, I think, um, I consider myself a

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hack of all trades. I'm not quite a Jack of all

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trades. It's a step below that. And, um, I think

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I'm just stupid enough to believe that I can

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do it. And most times with God's help. I can

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usually get it mostly done. Can fumble through.

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Yeah. I don't know. There's probably a lesson

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there. There's, there's a funny little meme that

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I saw recently and it's just a, it's, it's a

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little cartoon mouse, but the, the caption just

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kind of captures the imagination. It just says

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you must learn to proceed without certainty,

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which is true for life in general. Absolutely.

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But there's a lot of folks I think who would

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try things if they thought. Well, if I was guaranteed

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success, I would definitely do it, but nobody

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really ever is. I mean, even things that you're

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very confident about aren't really guarantees.

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Well, I'm just, I mean, I've, I've come to realize

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in my faith journey that I serve a supernatural

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God. And if I truly believe that if I truly with

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in my bones, if I believe that, then I have to

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believe that there's nothing that's impossible.

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And I just have some. I'll call it blind courage,

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for lack of a better term. And sometimes that's

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just how I do it. I'm just like, okay, God, you

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put me here. You better stop me. You better stop

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me if you don't want me to. And I'm sure that's

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probably happened some. Some things don't go

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well, but that's another place where trust in

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God comes in. Because if something flops, then

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do you... Get angry with God. Do you feel like

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you or, or do you question yourself or do you

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just say, well, this was God's will as well,

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you know, um, and, and just trust in his sovereign

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plan. But that may be a good, that may be a good

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early takeaway from this is if you've got something

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that you're thinking about trying and you're

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scared to do it, then, then do some soul searching

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and think about what your motivation is. Cause

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it could be, it could be prudence that's keeping

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you from doing it, or it could be that you should

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do it. Yeah. One of my key phrases is I'm just,

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I throw, throw spaghetti noodles at the wall

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to see if they stick. And if they do, then I

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just take another step. And sometimes I'll get

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several steps in and you know, the ground falls

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out from under me and I find myself in a new

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place that I can take a step in a different direction

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where I couldn't have. Otherwise, you know, I

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don't like this kind of hackneyed phrase, but

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they like when God closes a door, he opens a

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window is kind of, it kind of captures that idea.

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Yeah. Um, so sorry, sorry, listener to use that

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phrase. I think that's kind of cheesy, but I

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think that, I think the spirit of it is not terribly

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far off from, uh, from, from the truth. So, all

00:12:33.029 --> 00:12:34.789
right, shall we get into this article? Let's

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do it. All right. So I, I, um, I work as a one

00:12:39.740 --> 00:12:42.440
of my part -time gigs is that I work as a managing

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editor for American reformer, which is a journal

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for specifically Protestant civic and social

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thought the idea is to rejuvenate Protestant

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political theology through Having people read,

00:12:55.279 --> 00:12:57.000
you know people who are reading primary sources

00:12:57.000 --> 00:12:59.799
engaging with those things Doing the work of

00:12:59.799 --> 00:13:02.120
political philosophy either professionally or

00:13:02.120 --> 00:13:07.190
as layman to contemplate an issue Write their

00:13:07.190 --> 00:13:10.570
opinion up on it and so i do managing were edited

00:13:10.570 --> 00:13:12.470
work which is really kind of grunt work it's

00:13:12.470 --> 00:13:16.110
a very fulfilling career. Side gig because i

00:13:16.110 --> 00:13:17.769
get to read all these things which i'm already

00:13:17.769 --> 00:13:22.070
interested in anyway and. So i really enjoy it

00:13:22.070 --> 00:13:24.009
and we have one that came out today by a guy

00:13:24.009 --> 00:13:26.590
named ronald dotson who is a very good follow

00:13:26.590 --> 00:13:30.870
on x if you're on there. Very intelligent dude

00:13:30.870 --> 00:13:35.449
he's been around done all kinds of stuff. and

00:13:35.449 --> 00:13:38.870
is extremely well read, very thoughtful, knowledgeable

00:13:38.870 --> 00:13:40.769
about all kinds of philosophies and things of

00:13:40.769 --> 00:13:42.669
that nature. So this article that he came out

00:13:42.669 --> 00:13:45.929
with today, and the reason why I kind of wanted

00:13:45.929 --> 00:13:47.649
to think, this has been on my mind a little bit

00:13:47.649 --> 00:13:52.389
in other contexts, but his thesis here, and Ron,

00:13:52.429 --> 00:13:54.389
if you're out there, don't skewer me if I don't

00:13:54.389 --> 00:13:57.190
get this exactly right, but his thesis is basically

00:13:57.190 --> 00:14:03.330
that laws are useful tutors for the immature,

00:14:03.580 --> 00:14:07.460
And that when we reach maturity, that wisdom

00:14:07.460 --> 00:14:12.659
takes over. And so what he has, and he's using

00:14:12.659 --> 00:14:15.980
the incarnation of Christ as an example of this.

00:14:16.120 --> 00:14:19.379
So when Jesus came, you can look at the Sermon

00:14:19.379 --> 00:14:22.440
on the Mount and you can see, Moses gave you

00:14:22.440 --> 00:14:25.600
this law, do not commit murder. But I say, whoever

00:14:25.600 --> 00:14:27.360
looks on his brother, you know, whoever hates

00:14:27.360 --> 00:14:31.259
his brother is a murderer. So the law instructs

00:14:31.259 --> 00:14:36.590
us about What not to do wisdom which Christ imparts

00:14:36.590 --> 00:14:40.070
through his his teachings his life and completed

00:14:40.070 --> 00:14:44.309
revelation Shows us rather not not just to not

00:14:44.309 --> 00:14:47.409
commit murder but to uproot the sin which leads

00:14:47.409 --> 00:14:50.610
to murder and And in theory if we're successful

00:14:50.610 --> 00:14:52.870
at doing that then actually murdering someone

00:14:52.870 --> 00:14:55.090
like physically taking a life never even becomes

00:14:55.090 --> 00:14:58.529
an issue So he kind of extrapolates from that,

00:14:58.629 --> 00:15:01.029
this concept of like, we are a nation of laws

00:15:01.029 --> 00:15:03.049
and not of men, which is sometimes something

00:15:03.049 --> 00:15:06.389
that you might hear. Um, we're governed by laws.

00:15:07.610 --> 00:15:10.289
Um, but I guess the question that I'm, that I'm

00:15:10.289 --> 00:15:12.009
kind of getting at is, do you think that it's

00:15:12.009 --> 00:15:16.210
better to have laws as, as kind of this sovereign

00:15:16.210 --> 00:15:20.710
entity or should we entrust the wisdom of men?

00:15:21.789 --> 00:15:23.669
And what are our pitfalls there? There's a few

00:15:23.669 --> 00:15:28.070
obvious ones, but. And just a heads up for the

00:15:28.070 --> 00:15:30.629
readers, I have not read this, so. No, no, he's

00:15:30.629 --> 00:15:32.929
going in blind. I'm going in blind. So I'm trying

00:15:32.929 --> 00:15:34.649
to ask good questions here and we'll see if I'm

00:15:34.649 --> 00:15:37.549
successful. We just established you don't mind

00:15:37.549 --> 00:15:41.350
going in blind. No, I don't, I don't. It's more

00:15:41.350 --> 00:15:45.470
honest that way. My mind immediately goes to

00:15:45.470 --> 00:15:50.169
the term laws and I question whether or not that

00:15:50.169 --> 00:15:54.899
best describes what God gives us. I think if

00:15:54.899 --> 00:15:58.940
we as wise men graduate from the laws, then I

00:15:58.940 --> 00:16:02.179
think there are principles. It's more direction

00:16:02.179 --> 00:16:06.379
based than actual guideline based. Does that

00:16:06.379 --> 00:16:10.220
make sense? Yeah, that's a hard question. My

00:16:10.220 --> 00:16:11.700
mind's going in a million different directions

00:16:11.700 --> 00:16:15.940
right now. I think Ron would not say that the

00:16:15.940 --> 00:16:18.960
laws of God are abrogated, right? Like the moral

00:16:18.960 --> 00:16:22.350
laws still hold. You don't, you don't achieve

00:16:22.350 --> 00:16:24.429
an evolutionary state where you're so mature

00:16:24.429 --> 00:16:26.889
that you now can kill someone. Oh, sure, sure.

00:16:27.289 --> 00:16:29.629
Um, and just to clarify that that's not what

00:16:29.629 --> 00:16:32.029
his position would be. And I'm wondering if maybe

00:16:32.029 --> 00:16:36.129
the idea here is, you know, the law of God is,

00:16:36.409 --> 00:16:40.129
is a set of prohibitions and that is helpful

00:16:40.129 --> 00:16:42.149
to learn where not to go. We kind of do this

00:16:42.149 --> 00:16:43.649
with our children. I think that maybe he would

00:16:43.649 --> 00:16:46.370
find that an apt metaphor with regards to maturity.

00:16:46.690 --> 00:16:49.960
Don't do this. Don't do that. And as your children

00:16:49.960 --> 00:16:52.519
grow, you want, you know, don't leave a mess

00:16:52.519 --> 00:16:54.399
behind, right? Like this is a, this is a law

00:16:54.399 --> 00:16:56.539
we would hand down, but as your children grow

00:16:56.539 --> 00:16:59.419
and mature, you would rather, instead of having

00:16:59.419 --> 00:17:00.860
to say, don't leave a mess behind, you would

00:17:00.860 --> 00:17:02.299
rather your children walk through a messy room

00:17:02.299 --> 00:17:03.820
and say, boy, this is a mess. I'd like to clean

00:17:03.820 --> 00:17:06.519
this up. I have a desire to do what is good.

00:17:06.839 --> 00:17:10.200
Yeah. My mind, one direction my mind wants to

00:17:10.200 --> 00:17:13.200
go is, you know, we, we kind of add to the law,

00:17:13.220 --> 00:17:16.579
but I can see the destruction that that led to.

00:17:16.759 --> 00:17:20.400
in the days of Jesus with the Pharisees and everything.

00:17:21.740 --> 00:17:25.920
That kind of quells that thought. But I think

00:17:25.920 --> 00:17:31.700
we could somewhat sharpen those laws to an extent.

00:17:31.799 --> 00:17:33.819
I think there would definitely be a line that

00:17:33.819 --> 00:17:37.319
you couldn't cross. But I think that with godly

00:17:37.319 --> 00:17:41.359
wisdom and guidance by Holy Spirit, we could

00:17:41.359 --> 00:17:46.369
definitely hone those somewhat. And yeah, I guess

00:17:46.369 --> 00:17:49.230
refine, like what is the spirit of the thing?

00:17:49.670 --> 00:17:52.009
What is God really asking you to do when he says

00:17:52.009 --> 00:17:54.990
do not murder, do not steal, those kinds of things.

00:17:55.670 --> 00:17:58.930
So he references Plato, he likes Plato a lot.

00:17:59.589 --> 00:18:01.210
And he has a quote here from Plato that said,

00:18:01.809 --> 00:18:05.470
he calls law and legislation a device for making

00:18:05.470 --> 00:18:10.680
men good by compulsion. And then Ron follows

00:18:10.680 --> 00:18:13.019
up, this is an end quote of Plato. This is Ron

00:18:13.019 --> 00:18:15.819
now says, law is medicine, but not health. It

00:18:15.819 --> 00:18:17.720
keeps disorder in check, but it cannot create

00:18:17.720 --> 00:18:20.839
virtue. It's a bold claim. What do you think

00:18:20.839 --> 00:18:23.740
of that claim? Cause we hear this term legislating

00:18:23.740 --> 00:18:27.119
morality and a lot of people throw around, well,

00:18:27.140 --> 00:18:29.500
you can't legislate morality, but I would, I

00:18:29.500 --> 00:18:32.759
would reject that. I would say that really laws

00:18:32.759 --> 00:18:36.720
only legislate morality ultimately. I agree with

00:18:36.720 --> 00:18:38.559
that. They have an instructive purpose in that.

00:18:38.920 --> 00:18:41.180
Yeah, definitely. Now Plato, of course, being

00:18:41.180 --> 00:18:45.059
a pagan philosopher, you have to keep that in

00:18:45.059 --> 00:18:48.299
mind as well. Paul says, the law was our tutor

00:18:48.299 --> 00:18:50.359
until Christ came. He writes, but now that faith

00:18:50.359 --> 00:18:54.240
has come, we are no longer under a tutor, referring

00:18:54.240 --> 00:18:57.359
to the law as the tutor. So when Paul says, are

00:18:57.359 --> 00:19:02.160
we under law? Well, but he also gave us spirit.

00:19:02.740 --> 00:19:08.210
Right. So we have a guide now. Um, so I think

00:19:08.210 --> 00:19:12.549
that that changed the game pretty substantially.

00:19:12.809 --> 00:19:18.029
Yeah. We have the maker of the law residing in

00:19:18.029 --> 00:19:22.230
us. Sure. And illuminating that, you know, what,

00:19:22.450 --> 00:19:25.589
what does God mean when he says, um, and we,

00:19:25.609 --> 00:19:28.029
we have the, we have the complete Canon, you

00:19:28.029 --> 00:19:30.950
know, to clarify where there's confusion and

00:19:30.950 --> 00:19:33.670
things of that sort. So that's a, that's a very

00:19:33.670 --> 00:19:36.140
deep question. Yeah. To wrestle with. Well, let's

00:19:36.140 --> 00:19:39.900
ask a more practical question. So we have to

00:19:39.900 --> 00:19:42.619
kind of get to like the U S history and U S government

00:19:42.619 --> 00:19:44.380
and things like that, where this is kind of on

00:19:44.380 --> 00:19:46.180
people's brains. A lot, a lot of people with,

00:19:46.180 --> 00:19:51.059
with Trump derangement syndrome and you know,

00:19:51.339 --> 00:19:53.700
any, any cult of personality around a political

00:19:53.700 --> 00:19:56.339
figure, a legislator or whoever it might be.

00:19:56.960 --> 00:19:59.940
this concept of like, well, they're restrained

00:19:59.940 --> 00:20:01.859
by laws. We have checks and balances. We have

00:20:01.859 --> 00:20:04.019
the Constitution, which the Constitution's job

00:20:04.019 --> 00:20:07.099
is to enumerate specific powers and to restrict

00:20:07.099 --> 00:20:10.619
abuses. And a debate can probably be had for

00:20:10.619 --> 00:20:12.420
a long, long time about whether it's effective

00:20:12.420 --> 00:20:14.420
at doing that or if it's being observed today.

00:20:15.039 --> 00:20:16.920
But the theory being that the people in this

00:20:16.920 --> 00:20:19.880
country are sovereign. We have enacted a constitution

00:20:19.880 --> 00:20:22.880
to restrain the government which we elect to

00:20:22.880 --> 00:20:27.319
take care of business for us. So would you With

00:20:27.319 --> 00:20:29.799
regards to like the wisdom of men versus law

00:20:29.799 --> 00:20:34.000
Would you rather be ruled by a wise ruler with

00:20:34.000 --> 00:20:37.819
fewer laws? Or would you rather have laws that

00:20:37.819 --> 00:20:39.519
govern let's assume that there are laws that

00:20:39.519 --> 00:20:41.619
you would agree with and generally but more laws

00:20:41.619 --> 00:20:44.500
that would be you know, just kind of enforced

00:20:44.500 --> 00:20:48.119
by a an executive function of some kind I would

00:20:48.119 --> 00:20:51.859
have to go a step further and Know the heart

00:20:51.859 --> 00:20:55.950
of the population. Okay, because even some of

00:20:55.950 --> 00:20:58.849
the founding fathers said this government is

00:20:58.849 --> 00:21:01.869
for religious people. Right. Right. And without

00:21:01.869 --> 00:21:05.230
the upright. Yeah. And, um, John Addis, famous

00:21:05.230 --> 00:21:10.829
John Adams quote. Yeah. So without that, then

00:21:10.829 --> 00:21:14.650
I think you need more laws, but with morality,

00:21:15.210 --> 00:21:19.009
I think you need less. Sure. You know, it's just

00:21:19.009 --> 00:21:23.509
less oppressive, less tyrannical. It's good all

00:21:23.509 --> 00:21:26.250
around if a moral people can somewhat govern

00:21:26.250 --> 00:21:28.029
themselves, and I think that's what we're called

00:21:28.029 --> 00:21:31.829
to do. Yeah, and we see this in history. I think

00:21:31.829 --> 00:21:33.130
I mentioned last time that I've been reading

00:21:33.130 --> 00:21:35.150
the biographies of John Sevier and talking about

00:21:35.150 --> 00:21:37.390
the early Watauga settlers, the first people

00:21:37.390 --> 00:21:39.789
who came into Tennessee from Virginia, North

00:21:39.789 --> 00:21:44.559
Carolina. And the early settlers all came They

00:21:44.559 --> 00:21:46.779
were of like mind, they all wanted the same thing.

00:21:47.240 --> 00:21:49.859
There was lots of gates to jump through to get

00:21:49.859 --> 00:21:52.140
to that point. It was hard. Nobody was really

00:21:52.140 --> 00:21:53.920
interested in going over there and being a miscreant

00:21:53.920 --> 00:21:57.920
because you couldn't just easily get there. It

00:21:57.920 --> 00:22:00.440
was work. So the people that went were going

00:22:00.440 --> 00:22:02.559
to build a life for themselves. And for many

00:22:02.559 --> 00:22:04.660
years when they got here, there was no law enforcement

00:22:04.660 --> 00:22:08.470
or written laws. And it wasn't until a crime

00:22:08.470 --> 00:22:10.049
was committed. I think somebody stole a horse

00:22:10.049 --> 00:22:11.529
or something along those lines that they're like,

00:22:11.529 --> 00:22:13.170
all right, we got to put a court in. We need

00:22:13.170 --> 00:22:15.650
a sheriff. We need laws. And everybody kind of

00:22:15.650 --> 00:22:17.490
knew already because I think what ended up happening

00:22:17.490 --> 00:22:19.029
is when they caught the guy that hanged him.

00:22:19.089 --> 00:22:20.710
And but there was technically no law that said

00:22:20.710 --> 00:22:22.450
that that was the case. And they weren't sure.

00:22:22.950 --> 00:22:25.369
Is this under North Carolina's law? Do we have

00:22:25.369 --> 00:22:27.769
a court that has the ability to meet out capital

00:22:27.769 --> 00:22:30.849
punishment or like, you know, felonious kind

00:22:30.849 --> 00:22:35.099
of penal stuff? And they, they, they went around

00:22:35.099 --> 00:22:36.819
and around with North Carolina about that for

00:22:36.819 --> 00:22:39.359
a bit. Um, but I think that kind of bears out

00:22:39.359 --> 00:22:41.160
the point of like, if you've got a virtuous people

00:22:41.160 --> 00:22:44.119
that are all working together on the same mission,

00:22:44.539 --> 00:22:47.759
do you need laws? And you can get by with very

00:22:47.759 --> 00:22:50.680
few and. You know, like I said, they caught the

00:22:50.680 --> 00:22:52.700
guy and they dealt with him. It's not written

00:22:52.700 --> 00:22:55.000
down, but everybody knew the rule. You know,

00:22:55.019 --> 00:22:58.799
you didn't really need the law. So, um, and they

00:22:58.799 --> 00:23:01.970
had leaders. So that may go towards the idea

00:23:01.970 --> 00:23:05.390
of do we have wise leaders to deal with issues

00:23:05.390 --> 00:23:07.569
as they arise, or do we need laws in place to

00:23:07.569 --> 00:23:11.109
deal with issues that arise? Or is it both? I

00:23:11.109 --> 00:23:15.430
think it all depends on the volume. Because you

00:23:15.430 --> 00:23:19.309
can't efficiently deal with a high volume like

00:23:19.309 --> 00:23:22.869
that, but laws let you do that. Laws let you

00:23:22.869 --> 00:23:26.490
put mechanical procedures in place in order to

00:23:26.490 --> 00:23:28.440
take care of stuff like that. And that's where

00:23:28.440 --> 00:23:31.039
we are today. And that's why our justice system

00:23:31.039 --> 00:23:34.579
is so huge, just because we deal with so much

00:23:34.579 --> 00:23:38.079
law breaking and everything else. Yeah. I was

00:23:38.079 --> 00:23:41.799
a cop for four years in Nashville. And when I

00:23:41.799 --> 00:23:43.559
would go to General Sessions Court, which is

00:23:43.559 --> 00:23:47.079
one of the first stops in the judiciary process

00:23:47.079 --> 00:23:49.579
if you're charged with a crime. And your state

00:23:49.579 --> 00:23:52.140
probably has something similar wherever you are,

00:23:52.140 --> 00:23:53.599
but they may call it something different. But

00:23:53.599 --> 00:23:55.819
General Sessions Court is a probable cause hearing.

00:23:56.670 --> 00:23:59.329
there enough evidence to believe this person

00:23:59.329 --> 00:24:04.809
should be on trial for this matter and the dockets

00:24:04.809 --> 00:24:07.789
every single day five days a week multiple general

00:24:07.789 --> 00:24:10.509
sessions courtrooms like five or six of them

00:24:10.509 --> 00:24:13.490
would be hours long you know there'd be 80 or

00:24:13.490 --> 00:24:16.470
100 people with hearing scheduled for that day

00:24:16.470 --> 00:24:22.869
and that's that's one city in one state and it

00:24:22.869 --> 00:24:25.769
makes you wonder Do we have an overabundance

00:24:25.769 --> 00:24:27.910
of laws? I mean, maybe not. Maybe that's evidence

00:24:27.910 --> 00:24:31.089
that there should be. That's another good question

00:24:31.089 --> 00:24:34.910
to ask. If you have this much misbehavior, then

00:24:34.910 --> 00:24:38.569
do we need more? Maybe enforcement is lax. I

00:24:38.569 --> 00:24:39.869
don't know. There's a couple of ways to go with

00:24:39.869 --> 00:24:43.269
that. The easy answer is we need more Jesus.

00:24:43.809 --> 00:24:48.029
But how do you get there? All right, let me see.

00:24:48.029 --> 00:24:49.349
I'm looking for another quote here. There was

00:24:49.349 --> 00:24:52.150
one specifically that I had in mind. Oh, here

00:24:52.150 --> 00:24:54.950
we go. So this is talking about the rule of the

00:24:54.950 --> 00:24:57.930
wise. Like, is this an ideal that we should be

00:24:57.930 --> 00:25:01.450
kind of hoping for, as opposed to rule by an

00:25:01.450 --> 00:25:05.750
overabundance of just legal code. So he's referencing

00:25:05.750 --> 00:25:07.829
Solomon. It says, biblical kingship shows the

00:25:07.829 --> 00:25:10.549
same hierarchy. Solomon's judgment between the

00:25:10.549 --> 00:25:13.589
two mothers is not a legal formula, but a revelation

00:25:13.589 --> 00:25:16.170
of the heart. His wisdom fulfills the law's intent

00:25:16.170 --> 00:25:19.200
rather than applying its letter. Christ on the

00:25:19.200 --> 00:25:21.019
Mount completes this pattern you have heard it

00:25:21.019 --> 00:25:24.660
said but I say to you each antithesis moves the

00:25:24.660 --> 00:25:27.740
rule from rule to reason from restraint to renewal

00:25:27.740 --> 00:25:30.579
the law forbids murder wisdom roots out hatred

00:25:30.579 --> 00:25:33.960
the law condemns adultery wisdom purifies desire

00:25:33.960 --> 00:25:37.839
the King governs by wisdom not by code the code

00:25:37.839 --> 00:25:40.880
trains the King it does not sheath his sword

00:25:40.880 --> 00:25:43.640
That's an interesting reference to Solomon. He's

00:25:43.640 --> 00:25:45.160
referencing if you're not familiar with this

00:25:45.160 --> 00:25:47.930
Solomon very famous legal case brought before

00:25:47.930 --> 00:25:49.869
Solomon, right? There's two mothers, both have

00:25:49.869 --> 00:25:53.230
infants. One of them had rolled over and smothered

00:25:53.230 --> 00:25:55.670
her infant in the night and they both woke up

00:25:55.670 --> 00:25:57.849
the next day and claimed the surviving infant

00:25:57.849 --> 00:26:00.670
was theirs. So they're brought before the king

00:26:00.670 --> 00:26:02.789
because everyone's probably afraid to touch that.

00:26:03.439 --> 00:26:06.000
and deal with it. And so he says, all right,

00:26:06.039 --> 00:26:07.940
we can't figure this out. Bring me a sword. I'll

00:26:07.940 --> 00:26:10.099
cut the baby in half, and you can each have half.

00:26:10.539 --> 00:26:13.480
And the woman who was the mother said, no, just

00:26:13.480 --> 00:26:15.759
give the baby away to her. I'd rather him stay

00:26:15.759 --> 00:26:19.380
alive. And then by that discernment, Solomon

00:26:19.380 --> 00:26:21.400
was able to say, well, you're the real one, so

00:26:21.400 --> 00:26:24.240
give the baby to her. Right. This is kind of

00:26:24.240 --> 00:26:27.200
a famous example of Solomon's wisdom. He's purported

00:26:27.200 --> 00:26:29.900
to be, by the Holy Scriptures, the wisest man

00:26:29.900 --> 00:26:32.240
who ever lived, with the exception of Christ.

00:26:34.059 --> 00:26:37.079
And so, you know, obviously the law doesn't say,

00:26:37.140 --> 00:26:38.940
well, if there's a dispute about a baby, cut

00:26:38.940 --> 00:26:41.539
it in half, right? That's not what the rule was.

00:26:41.720 --> 00:26:43.720
So he had to apply this in a way that was wise.

00:26:43.980 --> 00:26:46.720
I think there are multiple examples of King's

00:26:46.720 --> 00:26:51.859
wisdom or even not King's, but like very powerful

00:26:51.859 --> 00:26:56.279
people like Joseph. His wisdom was obviously

00:26:56.279 --> 00:27:00.259
abundant. And it was wisdom that came from God

00:27:00.259 --> 00:27:03.539
through dreams and whatnot. Yeah, just all through

00:27:03.539 --> 00:27:07.859
the Bible, you can see King's wisdom being treasured

00:27:07.859 --> 00:27:11.599
and guiding God's people all throughout the Bible.

00:27:13.299 --> 00:27:15.400
Yeah. Yeah, and you could even say, just to kind

00:27:15.400 --> 00:27:17.160
of bring it back to the Mendevissachar idea,

00:27:17.400 --> 00:27:19.640
if you look through the records of the Kings

00:27:19.640 --> 00:27:22.920
in Chronicles, you'll see that the pattern is

00:27:22.920 --> 00:27:26.339
you have the King's name given. They're kind

00:27:26.339 --> 00:27:28.799
of dates of their rule and then there's usually

00:27:28.799 --> 00:27:31.200
an assessment of their rule. Were they a good

00:27:31.200 --> 00:27:33.819
king or not? And the good kings were the ones

00:27:33.819 --> 00:27:35.380
who knew what time it was and knew what to do.

00:27:35.640 --> 00:27:37.660
You know, like they they went out and hacked

00:27:37.660 --> 00:27:40.099
down the Asherah poles right for idol worship.

00:27:40.140 --> 00:27:42.779
They got rid of idols or they didn't. That was

00:27:42.779 --> 00:27:44.839
that was often what it boiled down to. And there's

00:27:44.839 --> 00:27:46.700
there's lots more detail about some of the specific

00:27:46.700 --> 00:27:51.400
ones. But, you know, did they did they return

00:27:51.400 --> 00:27:54.250
to God or did they move away from God? Was it

00:27:54.250 --> 00:27:56.450
was often kind of litmus test is this a good

00:27:56.450 --> 00:27:59.710
king or not? You know another example of a wise

00:27:59.710 --> 00:28:02.329
man wasn't a king, but he was he was very important

00:28:02.329 --> 00:28:03.970
was Daniel That's one that I always think of

00:28:03.970 --> 00:28:06.210
I tend to think of him as behind Solomon probably

00:28:06.210 --> 00:28:09.289
the next most Wise that I can that I can think

00:28:09.289 --> 00:28:13.609
of and he had divine insight But you know he

00:28:13.609 --> 00:28:16.470
he just was and everybody recognized that right

00:28:16.470 --> 00:28:19.309
like even the pagans recognized that that Daniel

00:28:19.309 --> 00:28:22.369
was a particularly gifted Thinker and he might

00:28:22.369 --> 00:28:24.049
have been like an actual intellectual genius.

00:28:24.049 --> 00:28:26.829
We don't really know that but Definitely had

00:28:26.829 --> 00:28:29.289
the wisdom that King sought after and they held

00:28:29.289 --> 00:28:33.170
him You know even after the he served under Nebuchadnezzar

00:28:33.170 --> 00:28:35.069
and Nebuchadnezzar his nephew who was ousted

00:28:35.069 --> 00:28:38.029
by the Persians The Persians didn't just send

00:28:38.029 --> 00:28:40.410
him away. They kept him on right that they recognized

00:28:40.410 --> 00:28:43.890
that this is This is an asset that the net that

00:28:43.890 --> 00:28:45.789
the kings of Babylon had and we're gonna we're

00:28:45.789 --> 00:28:48.390
gonna use this as well. Yeah Yeah, I mean you

00:28:48.390 --> 00:28:50.980
could you can name example after example like

00:28:50.980 --> 00:28:56.140
King David, Joshua, and Jericho. And there's

00:28:56.140 --> 00:28:59.960
a direct line with being close to God and having

00:28:59.960 --> 00:29:03.319
wisdom. I think you could also make that correlation.

00:29:03.500 --> 00:29:04.940
Sure. The fear of the Lord is the beginning of

00:29:04.940 --> 00:29:07.900
wisdom, right? Oh, sure. It would seem to be,

00:29:08.680 --> 00:29:10.599
I don't know if this is necessarily deduced directly,

00:29:10.619 --> 00:29:13.000
but the more you fear the Lord, it seems like

00:29:13.000 --> 00:29:16.160
the more wisdom you will seek from Him. And He

00:29:16.160 --> 00:29:18.500
is a good God, and He gives good gifts, and He

00:29:18.500 --> 00:29:21.259
will... Give you wisdom and proverbs says wisdom

00:29:21.259 --> 00:29:24.059
just calls out in the street for anyone who will

00:29:24.059 --> 00:29:28.000
listen so it's it's relatively low -hanging fruit

00:29:28.000 --> 00:29:31.559
we have it all written down and Prayer is at

00:29:31.559 --> 00:29:34.140
your fingertips and godly counsel from other

00:29:34.140 --> 00:29:37.440
Christians is available So seek those people

00:29:37.440 --> 00:29:41.619
out too Sure. Now let's let's ask this question.

00:29:41.940 --> 00:29:46.460
Do you think Trump is a wise ruler? That's who's

00:29:46.460 --> 00:29:49.799
that's who's in office at the time I think he

00:29:49.799 --> 00:29:53.019
has his moments. He has certain strong points

00:29:53.019 --> 00:29:55.660
of wisdom. And there are certain things that

00:29:55.660 --> 00:29:59.359
I think that he's doing that are very wise as

00:29:59.359 --> 00:30:03.059
far as business wise. I tend not to focus on

00:30:03.059 --> 00:30:06.839
the character because you could, I mean, anybody

00:30:06.839 --> 00:30:09.200
could tear that down. But at the same time, I

00:30:09.200 --> 00:30:13.779
see that being somewhat of a necessity in the

00:30:13.779 --> 00:30:19.539
swamp that he's in. He has to be strong. in certain

00:30:19.539 --> 00:30:23.819
ways. And that, and that lends itself to the

00:30:23.819 --> 00:30:26.599
character traits that he has. It's a little bit

00:30:26.599 --> 00:30:29.279
of a reflection on the system he's in too. Like

00:30:29.279 --> 00:30:33.119
he's going to succeed in this. And he, you know,

00:30:33.119 --> 00:30:36.880
he's from the cutthroat business world too. And

00:30:36.880 --> 00:30:40.400
that, that comes through a little bit, but overall,

00:30:40.480 --> 00:30:43.700
I think he's the right man for the right job.

00:30:44.599 --> 00:30:49.940
People are, are harping on The whole White House

00:30:49.940 --> 00:30:52.279
thing now. Sure. Where he's wanting to build

00:30:52.279 --> 00:30:55.380
the ballrooms and everything else. And the plans

00:30:55.380 --> 00:30:59.819
for that have been in existence for decades.

00:31:00.019 --> 00:31:01.500
Sure. And I, yeah, I remember him talking about

00:31:01.500 --> 00:31:03.880
this quite a while ago. Like he was excited about

00:31:03.880 --> 00:31:07.680
this. If you haven't heard of this that if you

00:31:07.680 --> 00:31:09.920
do if you don't know the White House is architectural

00:31:09.920 --> 00:31:12.019
layout I can forgive you for that because not

00:31:12.019 --> 00:31:13.740
many people do but the White House itself the

00:31:13.740 --> 00:31:16.720
thing you see on TV The actual big tall kind

00:31:16.720 --> 00:31:18.640
of squarish structure that's white. That's a

00:31:18.640 --> 00:31:20.640
relatively small portion of it There's the East

00:31:20.640 --> 00:31:25.180
Wing and West Wing that both go off with I can't

00:31:25.180 --> 00:31:26.799
remember what they call those walkways, but they're

00:31:26.799 --> 00:31:29.539
kind of outdoor walkways that are covered And

00:31:29.539 --> 00:31:31.720
one side, the West Wing, I believe goes off to

00:31:31.720 --> 00:31:33.440
where the actual Oval Office is. The Oval Office

00:31:33.440 --> 00:31:35.740
is not even in that structure that you see. It's

00:31:35.740 --> 00:31:37.920
in the next building along. There's even more

00:31:37.920 --> 00:31:39.519
underground. And there's a bunch. They have a

00:31:39.519 --> 00:31:43.380
bowling alley down there. Um, so the West Wing

00:31:43.380 --> 00:31:45.339
is mostly where like the business office side

00:31:45.339 --> 00:31:47.839
is. And that's so when you see, like, if you

00:31:47.839 --> 00:31:50.319
watch the West Wing show, which I don't recommend.

00:31:50.849 --> 00:31:53.329
My friends are gonna are gonna come after me

00:31:53.329 --> 00:31:55.769
for saying that but then wandering around the

00:31:55.769 --> 00:31:57.970
hallways talking about things that's often not

00:31:57.970 --> 00:32:00.509
in the residential part of the building and then

00:32:00.509 --> 00:32:04.509
the east wing Had until recently had a two -story

00:32:04.509 --> 00:32:07.029
structure which was where visitors would enter

00:32:07.029 --> 00:32:08.470
and they would have your metal detector and stuff

00:32:08.470 --> 00:32:10.890
like that and then there was a I think the first

00:32:10.890 --> 00:32:13.230
lady had an office in there on the second floor

00:32:13.230 --> 00:32:16.559
and There's just kind of some receiving areas.

00:32:16.819 --> 00:32:18.900
So that's what was demolished. It's not the,

00:32:18.900 --> 00:32:21.019
the, the residents like the historical residents

00:32:21.019 --> 00:32:23.740
part. It's that East wing part. And they're going

00:32:23.740 --> 00:32:26.680
to, they're going to rebuild a larger structure

00:32:26.680 --> 00:32:29.880
where that East wing was. And this is not unprecedented.

00:32:30.119 --> 00:32:33.339
Um, Abraham Lincoln did expand extensive renovations

00:32:33.339 --> 00:32:34.839
on it. And I can't, there was another president

00:32:34.839 --> 00:32:37.519
that nearly tore the thing down, trying to renovate

00:32:37.519 --> 00:32:39.380
the interior. And that makes sense. It's a 200

00:32:39.380 --> 00:32:41.619
and something year old building. Yeah. It's gotta

00:32:41.619 --> 00:32:45.440
be fixed from time to time. So. You know that

00:32:45.440 --> 00:32:47.880
kind of brings up the old question of I think

00:32:47.880 --> 00:32:50.039
it's the question of Odysseus's ship and sometimes

00:32:50.039 --> 00:32:53.819
it's applied to other things but And I'll pose

00:32:53.819 --> 00:32:55.619
the opposite I'll pose the question to you to

00:32:55.619 --> 00:32:59.559
see if what you think So well, I'll use a more

00:32:59.559 --> 00:33:01.119
modern example because this one actually is in

00:33:01.119 --> 00:33:03.900
existence So Lord Horatio Nelson like the best

00:33:03.900 --> 00:33:06.359
Admiral that the British ever had fought Napoleon

00:33:06.359 --> 00:33:09.579
won great battles It was eventually killed in

00:33:09.579 --> 00:33:11.900
a naval battle, but his ship, the HMS Victory,

00:33:12.180 --> 00:33:14.759
is, I think, still to this day docked at Portsmouth

00:33:14.759 --> 00:33:18.119
in England. And it's like a floating museum.

00:33:18.440 --> 00:33:20.720
But over the years, the wooden ship has had to

00:33:20.720 --> 00:33:24.180
have pieces and parts replaced. So if, in theory,

00:33:24.339 --> 00:33:25.960
the thing lasts long enough that they have to

00:33:25.960 --> 00:33:28.960
replace every single piece of wood, is it still

00:33:28.960 --> 00:33:33.240
the Victory? Like none of it is the original.

00:33:33.470 --> 00:33:35.809
that they would have come out of dry dock with

00:33:35.809 --> 00:33:39.309
in 18, whatever 17, whatever it was built. I

00:33:39.309 --> 00:33:42.869
would argue it is. Yeah. So that begs the question

00:33:42.869 --> 00:33:44.769
of what is the, you know, what makes it the victory?

00:33:44.990 --> 00:33:47.730
It's, it's the, I guess the, the purpose behind

00:33:47.730 --> 00:33:51.309
it. It's the usefulness of it. It's the job that

00:33:51.309 --> 00:33:54.349
it enables. Sure. So wherever the president lives

00:33:54.349 --> 00:33:59.970
is the white house. Kind of. Yeah. But there's,

00:33:59.970 --> 00:34:04.299
there's more to that. that picture because Trump

00:34:04.299 --> 00:34:09.760
is, he is wanting to beautify Washington DC and

00:34:09.760 --> 00:34:13.980
he is wanting to improve Washington DC. And that's

00:34:13.980 --> 00:34:16.500
just one of the many ways that he's looking to

00:34:16.500 --> 00:34:19.780
do that. There's always going to be naysayers

00:34:19.780 --> 00:34:22.440
and there's always going to be opposition. Sure.

00:34:22.639 --> 00:34:27.219
But I think he truly means well for Washington

00:34:27.219 --> 00:34:32.219
DC and he appreciates beauty and I think as Christians,

00:34:32.599 --> 00:34:35.480
we are called to appreciate beauty. Yeah, I think

00:34:35.480 --> 00:34:39.000
so. And to probably, you know, maybe this is

00:34:39.000 --> 00:34:41.840
too far, but maybe we should be obligated to

00:34:41.840 --> 00:34:44.860
patronize the arts in a way. Like, I can't build

00:34:44.860 --> 00:34:47.159
a ballroom, right? But my understanding is that

00:34:47.159 --> 00:34:49.079
he's building this at his own expense, and I

00:34:49.079 --> 00:34:52.030
could be wrong there, but... If a sitting president

00:34:52.030 --> 00:34:55.010
wants to use his own money to build a ballroom,

00:34:55.150 --> 00:34:58.269
it's not a golf course or a bar. Like this is

00:34:58.269 --> 00:35:00.469
a ballroom. But that's within his character and

00:35:00.469 --> 00:35:04.789
that should speak to the way you think of Trump.

00:35:06.090 --> 00:35:09.289
He's willing to do things at his own expense

00:35:09.289 --> 00:35:13.849
much of the time. If it's what needs to be done

00:35:13.849 --> 00:35:18.110
in his opinion. I think he's shown that before.

00:35:18.269 --> 00:35:20.550
This is just a kind of a dramatic example of

00:35:20.550 --> 00:35:23.489
it, I guess. Yep. You think Vance is a wiser

00:35:23.489 --> 00:35:26.130
ruler? I think he's a different type of guy.

00:35:26.190 --> 00:35:30.130
Yeah. I think he has, he has boldness like Trump

00:35:30.130 --> 00:35:34.030
does, but I think he has more reservedness about

00:35:34.030 --> 00:35:37.309
his character. I think he, he's more careful

00:35:37.309 --> 00:35:39.429
than Trump. Trump's kind of a bull in a china

00:35:39.429 --> 00:35:43.829
shop. Yeah. Vance is, I think he, he measures

00:35:43.829 --> 00:35:46.570
twice before he cuts. Yeah, maybe so, maybe so.

00:35:46.869 --> 00:35:49.320
I think that. That's one way you could look at

00:35:49.320 --> 00:35:52.219
the difference between Trump and Vance. But at

00:35:52.219 --> 00:35:56.159
the same time, I think Trump has a, he has a

00:35:56.159 --> 00:35:59.760
vision. There's a long game unfolding that we

00:35:59.760 --> 00:36:03.179
don't even see yet that Trump has, I believe.

00:36:03.480 --> 00:36:06.000
Just because I've seen, I've seen evidence of

00:36:06.000 --> 00:36:09.079
that in some of the actions that he's taken,

00:36:09.599 --> 00:36:12.880
just that have unfolded and uncovered. Yeah.

00:36:14.019 --> 00:36:16.460
You know, I think Trump has demonstrated that

00:36:16.460 --> 00:36:18.440
he's concerned about legacy in a way that a lot

00:36:18.440 --> 00:36:21.719
of politicians Don't seem to a lot of them and

00:36:21.719 --> 00:36:23.760
this is this may be a hasty judgment to make

00:36:23.760 --> 00:36:26.119
in some cases But it also often feels like they're

00:36:26.119 --> 00:36:28.820
in it for themselves They're president for four

00:36:28.820 --> 00:36:31.000
or eight years and they're gonna do what they

00:36:31.000 --> 00:36:34.199
think they can do for that time Trump seems to

00:36:34.199 --> 00:36:37.860
be more concerned with you know What who's taken

00:36:37.860 --> 00:36:40.239
over? Um, and I don't know that he's ever necessarily

00:36:40.239 --> 00:36:43.079
said those words, but he's built a movement,

00:36:43.099 --> 00:36:46.760
which is, um, different. Um, and you know, lots

00:36:46.760 --> 00:36:48.639
of, lots of ink has been spilled and lots of

00:36:48.639 --> 00:36:51.380
podcasts abound about the MAGA movement itself.

00:36:52.159 --> 00:36:55.340
And, uh, I find it interesting that while it,

00:36:55.440 --> 00:36:57.019
you could look out from the outside and say,

00:36:57.039 --> 00:36:58.780
well, this is just a cult of personality around

00:36:58.780 --> 00:37:00.519
Trump, but I'm just not so convinced. I think

00:37:00.519 --> 00:37:02.820
that MAGA is probably going to outlive him. Yeah.

00:37:03.280 --> 00:37:06.039
Um, I think you could look at it in a fatherly

00:37:06.039 --> 00:37:11.440
way. Uh, he's, he's kind of training his sons

00:37:11.440 --> 00:37:14.239
for lack of a better term and not his actual

00:37:14.239 --> 00:37:17.980
sons, but possibly his actual sons to follow

00:37:17.980 --> 00:37:22.559
in his footsteps. He's, he's creating a path

00:37:22.559 --> 00:37:26.880
that is sustainable. He's, he's not just, you

00:37:26.880 --> 00:37:30.500
know, serving his, his time and just saying,

00:37:30.719 --> 00:37:33.079
well, whatever happens next, I have no. Yeah.

00:37:33.079 --> 00:37:37.579
I'm just out. I got mine. Yeah. He's, he's really

00:37:37.579 --> 00:37:41.559
setting the stage. Well, yeah. Yeah. And kind

00:37:41.559 --> 00:37:43.480
of to tie that back in, do you think that that

00:37:43.480 --> 00:37:48.260
kind of like succession planning, um, legacy

00:37:48.260 --> 00:37:51.440
focused mindset, is that a mark of a wise ruler?

00:37:51.880 --> 00:37:57.820
I think so. I really do in that way. Yes. Um,

00:37:57.960 --> 00:37:59.820
that's, that's just not something that we're

00:37:59.820 --> 00:38:03.679
used to in our politicians. Yeah. Is that type

00:38:03.679 --> 00:38:05.500
of wisdom, but maybe one of the shortcomings

00:38:05.500 --> 00:38:07.480
of the system that we have, right? Like you have

00:38:07.480 --> 00:38:11.599
term limits and therefore this is one of the

00:38:11.599 --> 00:38:13.619
arguments that I've heard for monarchy. And,

00:38:13.619 --> 00:38:17.219
um, you know, a King will pass on his kingdom

00:38:17.219 --> 00:38:21.460
to his children in some form. And so the incentive.

00:38:21.849 --> 00:38:23.929
kind of like it would be for a private citizen

00:38:23.929 --> 00:38:26.789
to build wealth so that they can have an inheritance

00:38:26.789 --> 00:38:28.670
for their kids, which doesn't motivate everyone

00:38:28.670 --> 00:38:32.130
to do that. But it's a motivator. And it is something

00:38:32.130 --> 00:38:34.150
that people consider when they have kids. I want

00:38:34.150 --> 00:38:35.909
to at least make it to where I'm not a burden.

00:38:35.969 --> 00:38:39.969
If not, give them more than I had. So if you

00:38:39.969 --> 00:38:42.250
got a king who's got a kingdom, he's got a son

00:38:42.250 --> 00:38:44.610
or he's got a daughter who will marry a son who

00:38:44.610 --> 00:38:47.110
he can then pass on through his own family line.

00:38:47.369 --> 00:38:49.849
He's got this incentive to pass on a healthy

00:38:49.849 --> 00:38:52.610
kingdom that is Preferably stronger than it was

00:38:52.610 --> 00:38:55.690
when he took it or, you know, ready for a, you

00:38:55.690 --> 00:38:58.190
know, the, the rule of the new one and to raise

00:38:58.190 --> 00:39:01.570
the sun up in such a way that that son will manage

00:39:01.570 --> 00:39:04.469
it well and hold it in trust for the next generation.

00:39:05.269 --> 00:39:07.530
And presidents don't really have that incentive

00:39:07.530 --> 00:39:10.769
unless they are personally motivated, like what

00:39:10.769 --> 00:39:12.949
would seem to be the case with Trump. Like he

00:39:12.949 --> 00:39:17.190
kind of wants. Yeah. And, and you see, uh, his,

00:39:17.190 --> 00:39:22.800
uh, his younger sons. you see them weighing in

00:39:22.800 --> 00:39:25.820
on some of his decisions because they, they know

00:39:25.820 --> 00:39:30.139
the, the times and they can speak into the more

00:39:30.139 --> 00:39:33.460
current issues. Yeah. I've, you know, Baron Baron

00:39:33.460 --> 00:39:35.820
kind of became a meme in the last election as

00:39:35.820 --> 00:39:38.800
sort of a new, like a, like a right -wing kind

00:39:38.800 --> 00:39:40.860
of Messiah type figure. And that was done with

00:39:40.860 --> 00:39:43.000
a little tongue in cheek, but I wouldn't at all

00:39:43.000 --> 00:39:45.059
be surprised if he had a future in politics.

00:39:45.219 --> 00:39:48.599
He seems to have the gravitas and there's less

00:39:48.599 --> 00:39:51.980
of the He seems less rough around the edges in

00:39:51.980 --> 00:39:56.519
ways that his dad is. So he may be around. Well,

00:39:56.679 --> 00:39:59.420
you see that in all of Trump's kids. They're

00:39:59.420 --> 00:40:04.679
more refined, at least to certain extents, especially

00:40:04.679 --> 00:40:09.059
his daughter. His daughter is very classy and

00:40:09.059 --> 00:40:11.960
she doesn't speak out anywhere close to what

00:40:11.960 --> 00:40:15.150
Trump does. Yeah, they're more measured. Yeah.

00:40:15.190 --> 00:40:17.369
More controlled. I wouldn't say self -control

00:40:17.369 --> 00:40:19.949
is one of, and I believe he's grown in that area.

00:40:20.130 --> 00:40:23.369
He has. There's a big difference ever since the

00:40:23.369 --> 00:40:27.070
assassination attempt. I think, uh, it has given

00:40:27.070 --> 00:40:31.889
him a new outlook on a lot of things. Well, that's

00:40:31.889 --> 00:40:34.389
a, that's, that's our assessment of, of Trump

00:40:34.389 --> 00:40:37.170
with this would, you know, Vance is looking like

00:40:37.170 --> 00:40:39.289
he's probably going to run next. I think that's

00:40:39.289 --> 00:40:42.650
likely, or at least sometime soon. So we'll,

00:40:42.650 --> 00:40:44.429
you know, we'll see what happens next, I suppose.

00:40:44.699 --> 00:40:47.500
Anyway, so this was this was wrong. So to bring

00:40:47.500 --> 00:40:50.219
it back if you're interested in this idea, um,

00:40:50.280 --> 00:40:53.059
you can engage with this article on on americanreformer

00:40:53.059 --> 00:40:56.699
.org Where you'll find it. It just came out on

00:40:56.699 --> 00:41:00.239
today's the 29th. Uh, yes Yeah, so today's 29th

00:41:00.239 --> 00:41:02.059
of october. So that's the date that it came out

00:41:02.059 --> 00:41:04.719
and the title of the article is the rule of the

00:41:04.719 --> 00:41:07.159
incarnate and again, the thesis is this idea

00:41:07.159 --> 00:41:12.079
that Societies are kind of the subtext is that

00:41:12.079 --> 00:41:14.380
societies are better off governed by wise rulers

00:41:14.380 --> 00:41:16.980
than they are by an abundance of laws and that's

00:41:16.980 --> 00:41:19.400
that's a thesis which you can disagree with but

00:41:19.400 --> 00:41:22.280
you should look into it and Read it and see if

00:41:22.280 --> 00:41:26.320
you find this convincing or interesting And I

00:41:26.320 --> 00:41:27.699
don't think that he's necessarily advocating

00:41:27.699 --> 00:41:29.860
for a monarchy, you know He might if he were

00:41:29.860 --> 00:41:31.179
in the room with us He might say he would rather

00:41:31.179 --> 00:41:32.920
have that if he could you know, just snap his

00:41:32.920 --> 00:41:34.719
fingers. I don't know You know, would you rather

00:41:34.719 --> 00:41:37.639
have a wise president or wise ruler wise judges?

00:41:37.639 --> 00:41:40.559
We all kind of want these things. Um, and if

00:41:40.559 --> 00:41:44.219
you could trade in a bunch of our laws and, and,

00:41:44.219 --> 00:41:47.179
and get an exchange wise rulers and governors

00:41:47.179 --> 00:41:49.920
and judges, I don't know that there's a lot of

00:41:49.920 --> 00:41:51.579
people who would say, nah, I'd rather just have

00:41:51.579 --> 00:41:55.519
a bunch of laws. Yeah. Yeah. If, if, if there

00:41:55.519 --> 00:41:59.519
was a way for him to be omnipresent in all the

00:41:59.519 --> 00:42:04.119
courtrooms across the nation, then. That would

00:42:04.119 --> 00:42:07.099
be one thing, but I think with the sheer volume

00:42:07.099 --> 00:42:10.880
that we deal with today, it would lead to more

00:42:10.880 --> 00:42:14.039
chaos, I think, than it would lead to order.

00:42:16.119 --> 00:42:18.179
Society would not be ready for that kind of thing

00:42:18.179 --> 00:42:22.139
yet. Yeah, that's more of a utopianistic ideal.

00:42:22.719 --> 00:42:26.900
I mean, in the practical space, I think laws

00:42:26.900 --> 00:42:31.519
are required. And even the laws we have, if you're

00:42:31.519 --> 00:42:34.719
of a mind that we have too many or that they're

00:42:34.719 --> 00:42:37.320
excessively burdensome or maybe pedantic or something,

00:42:37.320 --> 00:42:39.239
you know, they're just kind of petty. We still

00:42:39.239 --> 00:42:43.480
need wise application. Sure. And I think that's

00:42:43.480 --> 00:42:46.579
what's lacking in our whole society, and judges

00:42:46.579 --> 00:42:50.039
included, because judges are, you know, they're

00:42:50.039 --> 00:42:53.119
the arbiter of... They're kind of the front line.

00:42:53.119 --> 00:42:57.679
Yeah. And they are supposed to be the wise ones.

00:42:57.820 --> 00:43:02.170
Yeah. and they can enforce or choose to overlook

00:43:02.170 --> 00:43:04.789
certain things. Certain things they can't overlook,

00:43:04.929 --> 00:43:07.889
but there are certain things that they can. And

00:43:07.889 --> 00:43:11.550
they can make judgments on situations that are...

00:43:11.550 --> 00:43:14.130
Sometimes they hang as crimes, you know, like

00:43:14.130 --> 00:43:16.969
they still have wide leeway and they're protected

00:43:16.969 --> 00:43:19.909
from consequences in a lot of cases. I think

00:43:19.909 --> 00:43:21.349
there's probably limits to that. I don't know

00:43:21.349 --> 00:43:22.929
exactly what they are. A lawyer could probably

00:43:22.929 --> 00:43:25.119
sound off about that, but... You know, that kind

00:43:25.119 --> 00:43:28.559
of begs the question. And the judiciary in general

00:43:28.559 --> 00:43:30.539
is kind of, if you're a political conservative,

00:43:30.840 --> 00:43:33.599
they're kind of, you know, they're kind of on

00:43:33.599 --> 00:43:37.559
the hit list right now, proverbially, for being

00:43:37.559 --> 00:43:42.179
obstructing a lot of things. Frustration about

00:43:42.179 --> 00:43:45.440
poor enforcement of crime. This was the situation

00:43:45.440 --> 00:43:47.869
in Charlotte, right, with... The girl who was

00:43:47.869 --> 00:43:49.929
stabbed on the train, that guy was arrested a

00:43:49.929 --> 00:43:51.530
whole bunch of times. I don't remember the number,

00:43:51.550 --> 00:43:53.170
but it was enough that people were like, why

00:43:53.170 --> 00:43:55.809
was he out? Why was he out walking around? And

00:43:55.809 --> 00:43:57.309
the theory of course being, well, judges kept

00:43:57.309 --> 00:44:00.150
letting him go, which is quite possibly accurate.

00:44:00.230 --> 00:44:03.889
I don't know. But, uh, would you rather have,

00:44:04.329 --> 00:44:06.130
I mean, would you rather take the judge, the

00:44:06.130 --> 00:44:09.389
judge's subjective judgment out and just say,

00:44:09.769 --> 00:44:11.329
I mean, there's people who've advocated for things

00:44:11.329 --> 00:44:13.869
like let an AI do the judging. I think that's

00:44:13.869 --> 00:44:17.050
where we're headed. Yeah. Like a neutral letter

00:44:17.050 --> 00:44:20.690
of the law only. I don't know if I like that.

00:44:20.989 --> 00:44:24.309
I'm frustrated with judges too. Yeah. I just

00:44:24.309 --> 00:44:28.050
think it's what school that you subscribe to

00:44:28.050 --> 00:44:32.210
as far as being a judge. If you are more conservative,

00:44:32.510 --> 00:44:35.090
I think you're going to be a more just judge.

00:44:35.449 --> 00:44:38.269
You're going to be a more lax judge if you're

00:44:38.269 --> 00:44:40.750
left leaning. Yeah. That seems to be the trend.

00:44:41.090 --> 00:44:42.989
I'm sure there's a few exceptions, but that seems

00:44:42.989 --> 00:44:46.389
to be what we see. All right, well, let's shift

00:44:46.389 --> 00:44:48.690
to something more lighthearted, shall we? Yeah,

00:44:48.690 --> 00:44:50.949
let's do it. Unless you want to go on with that.

00:44:51.809 --> 00:44:57.269
So we just had the bison stew at your bison ranch.

00:44:57.710 --> 00:45:01.949
Yeah. Tell me about the bison stew. Well, we've

00:45:01.949 --> 00:45:06.690
done it for over 30 years. My family, on our

00:45:06.690 --> 00:45:10.869
family farm, we always get together at a designated

00:45:10.869 --> 00:45:16.219
time. I'll start out about, I started at seven

00:45:16.219 --> 00:45:21.559
30 in the morning. I hung the kettles on a, on

00:45:21.559 --> 00:45:23.739
the chains that we had made. We've got a whole

00:45:23.739 --> 00:45:26.320
structure we put up and we create fires under

00:45:26.320 --> 00:45:28.260
that and start boiling some water. And then we

00:45:28.260 --> 00:45:32.000
put the bison meat in and we put the, all the

00:45:32.000 --> 00:45:34.820
different ingredients, the tomatoes or tomato

00:45:34.820 --> 00:45:40.630
paste and tomato sauce. potatoes and carrots

00:45:40.630 --> 00:45:44.909
and onions. And we, we have a recipe that at

00:45:44.909 --> 00:45:48.090
different points during the day, we, we put them

00:45:48.090 --> 00:45:51.730
in and it's from an old recipe we got from a,

00:45:51.730 --> 00:45:55.889
it was a horseback riders club from way back

00:45:55.889 --> 00:45:58.289
in my early childhood. I mean, I was little,

00:45:58.690 --> 00:46:01.349
I was probably five or six years old whenever

00:46:01.349 --> 00:46:05.929
we got this recipe. And my dad has just treasured

00:46:05.929 --> 00:46:09.320
it and We have, you know, between two and 300

00:46:09.320 --> 00:46:11.579
people probably there at the farm. Yeah. I didn't

00:46:11.579 --> 00:46:12.840
know that. I kind of thought it was going to

00:46:12.840 --> 00:46:15.340
be like 30, not get there. And it's a whole thing.

00:46:15.460 --> 00:46:18.019
You got a bunch of, yeah, we even have music

00:46:18.019 --> 00:46:20.280
there at the barn. Well, that's when I, that

00:46:20.280 --> 00:46:21.920
was my first clue that it was kind of a bigger

00:46:21.920 --> 00:46:22.860
deal when you were like, well, there's going

00:46:22.860 --> 00:46:24.860
to be live music. I was like, Oh, this is a thing.

00:46:24.880 --> 00:46:28.320
This is a big old thing. So, yeah, it's just,

00:46:28.320 --> 00:46:32.320
it's just something my family is, has done as

00:46:32.320 --> 00:46:35.920
a, as a deep rooted tradition. Yeah, and we just

00:46:35.920 --> 00:46:38.300
love to we love to share what we've been blessed

00:46:38.300 --> 00:46:42.599
with and the bison stew is I think a tradition

00:46:42.599 --> 00:46:45.599
that could be lost and we just we're trying to

00:46:45.599 --> 00:46:47.940
keep it up and keep going strong Well, it seems

00:46:47.940 --> 00:46:50.320
pretty strong at the moment and I hope it keeps

00:46:50.320 --> 00:46:52.000
up too. That's the kind of cultural artifact

00:46:52.000 --> 00:46:54.420
that Those are the kinds of things that when

00:46:54.420 --> 00:46:56.340
you take for granted whatever you take for granted

00:46:56.340 --> 00:47:00.079
the next generation will lose. Yeah And, you

00:47:00.079 --> 00:47:01.719
know, I know that you're passing it on because

00:47:01.719 --> 00:47:06.039
my little girl's in class with yours, and they

00:47:06.039 --> 00:47:07.960
were talking about having to rest their hands

00:47:07.960 --> 00:47:10.119
that day so that they would be ready to peel

00:47:10.119 --> 00:47:13.239
potatoes. Well, yeah, the night before, I mean,

00:47:13.239 --> 00:47:17.960
it's a big undertaking. And we have about between

00:47:17.960 --> 00:47:22.599
15 and 20 people come the night before, and we'll

00:47:22.599 --> 00:47:26.739
peel, goodness, probably close to 100 pounds

00:47:26.739 --> 00:47:31.699
of potatoes. and cut up onions and get carrots

00:47:31.699 --> 00:47:33.980
and everything ready. And just, you know, we're,

00:47:33.980 --> 00:47:36.380
we're preparing, we put it all on ice so that

00:47:36.380 --> 00:47:39.280
the next day when we're ready for it, we can

00:47:39.280 --> 00:47:42.699
just dump it in. Cause there's no way we could,

00:47:43.099 --> 00:47:46.039
we could do all that needs to be done the day

00:47:46.039 --> 00:47:52.099
of. I mean, it's five big, you know, between

00:47:52.099 --> 00:47:57.440
25 and 35 gallon kettles. Yeah. They were serious,

00:47:57.579 --> 00:47:59.980
man. It looked like a witch's brew. Um, it was

00:47:59.980 --> 00:48:03.460
the proper, proper stew. Um, it was also very

00:48:03.460 --> 00:48:07.360
good. I had the spicy kind. Yeah. We cook, uh,

00:48:07.539 --> 00:48:12.300
we cook a traditional, uh, we cook a vegetable

00:48:12.300 --> 00:48:16.659
bison. We cook, uh, medium spice, very difficult

00:48:16.659 --> 00:48:21.300
to raise vegetable bisons. It's not vegetarian.

00:48:22.829 --> 00:48:26.070
It's bison stew with more vegetables in it, and

00:48:26.070 --> 00:48:31.829
then we have the spicy. My late brother, he was

00:48:31.829 --> 00:48:35.070
always putting a little extra spice in, so we

00:48:35.070 --> 00:48:37.849
had to put some in for his memory. Pour a little

00:48:37.849 --> 00:48:40.670
extra in for him, yeah. Now, there was an anecdote

00:48:40.670 --> 00:48:43.090
that your wife shared with me about the burgers.

00:48:44.130 --> 00:48:48.409
Do you mind sharing that? Oh, no. It's a tradition

00:48:48.409 --> 00:48:53.389
that also comes from my late brother. these burgers

00:48:53.389 --> 00:48:57.269
one time a year and you get salting crackers

00:48:57.269 --> 00:49:00.489
and you crush them up and then you infuse it

00:49:00.489 --> 00:49:03.929
with all the meat. You season the meat when you

00:49:03.929 --> 00:49:06.190
put the crackers in it. So the seasoning is all

00:49:06.190 --> 00:49:09.070
throughout the meat. We cook those and they're,

00:49:09.070 --> 00:49:12.210
they're probably an inch and a half thick burgers.

00:49:13.050 --> 00:49:16.170
They're great, great big substantial burgers.

00:49:16.969 --> 00:49:20.090
That's just a tradition as well that runs parallel

00:49:20.090 --> 00:49:23.329
to the stew cook. for all those that help us.

00:49:24.630 --> 00:49:27.769
The thing that I really liked about that that

00:49:27.769 --> 00:49:29.769
she shared was that this was something that your

00:49:29.769 --> 00:49:33.050
brother had been doing and that with him not

00:49:33.050 --> 00:49:35.789
being there, that your son said he wanted to

00:49:35.789 --> 00:49:39.789
take over. Yep, he did. That brings a tear to

00:49:39.789 --> 00:49:43.409
the eye. With this idea of like, well, we're

00:49:43.409 --> 00:49:45.329
not going to, you know, we want the next generation

00:49:45.329 --> 00:49:47.750
to carry this on. This is important to, you know,

00:49:47.750 --> 00:49:50.250
it's, it's sentimental, but also like this, this

00:49:50.250 --> 00:49:51.909
is something of interest to me because that's

00:49:51.909 --> 00:49:55.289
kind of how I view my work as a teacher is I

00:49:55.289 --> 00:49:58.210
want the next generation to have access to the

00:49:58.210 --> 00:50:00.730
things that the generation before me gave me.

00:50:00.949 --> 00:50:03.389
It's just really nice to see that trust passed

00:50:03.389 --> 00:50:06.269
on even in something as, you know, this is not

00:50:06.269 --> 00:50:08.610
world peace. This is, but this is a important

00:50:08.610 --> 00:50:11.710
family tradition that this guy, this young man,

00:50:12.650 --> 00:50:15.650
a relatively young man has recognized the importance

00:50:15.650 --> 00:50:19.730
of and has a desire to carry it forward. And

00:50:19.730 --> 00:50:22.050
one day his son maybe will make them as well.

00:50:22.630 --> 00:50:25.469
Yeah. And my father is very good about all that.

00:50:25.650 --> 00:50:30.389
He loves passing down those tradition rich, you

00:50:30.389 --> 00:50:32.769
know, things like we have a live nativity at

00:50:32.769 --> 00:50:35.469
our farm every year. It's always the first Saturday

00:50:35.469 --> 00:50:40.210
in December. And we make stockings for We'd probably

00:50:40.210 --> 00:50:43.409
make seven or 800 stockings and just hand them

00:50:43.409 --> 00:50:47.989
out to kids around that area. And there's several

00:50:47.989 --> 00:50:52.309
kids around there that don't have much financially.

00:50:52.690 --> 00:50:54.630
And that's one of the big things that they get.

00:50:55.289 --> 00:51:00.590
My dad is like Santa Claus and John Wayne infused

00:51:00.590 --> 00:51:03.550
together. Basically, man, I would watch a movie

00:51:03.550 --> 00:51:09.909
about that. Okay, everyone pause and insert Jeff

00:51:09.909 --> 00:51:12.730
from this point forward He just showed up so

00:51:12.730 --> 00:51:15.050
we give him a short synopsis of the subjects

00:51:15.050 --> 00:51:17.130
that we've been speaking on and he gives us a

00:51:17.130 --> 00:51:20.269
quick comment and You may hear a tiny bit of

00:51:20.269 --> 00:51:24.030
info Repeated as Jeff hears it, but I think it's

00:51:24.030 --> 00:51:25.989
worth getting his input from this point out.

00:51:26.010 --> 00:51:29.489
So now back to the podcast I'm glad y 'all are

00:51:29.489 --> 00:51:33.510
talking about that. It is governance by layering

00:51:33.510 --> 00:51:39.179
rules is is corruption, really. You're trying

00:51:39.179 --> 00:51:41.519
to manipulate people rather than grow them in

00:51:41.519 --> 00:51:45.559
wisdom. And it's a problem. It's so convenient,

00:51:45.639 --> 00:51:48.199
so easy, right? Yeah. Just add another rule.

00:51:50.199 --> 00:51:56.699
I think the classic example for me about a wise

00:51:56.699 --> 00:52:01.900
ruler punishes evildoers. I worked at a trucking

00:52:01.900 --> 00:52:04.519
company here in town for a number of years. And

00:52:04.519 --> 00:52:07.079
there were like five guys who went outside every

00:52:07.079 --> 00:52:11.099
break and just smoked cigarettes. And every day

00:52:11.099 --> 00:52:13.099
that they did it at every break would get an

00:52:13.099 --> 00:52:15.320
email saying, please don't smoke at the entrance

00:52:15.320 --> 00:52:19.659
of the, uh, of the building. All it really would

00:52:19.659 --> 00:52:23.860
have took. And the reason that it, you know,

00:52:24.099 --> 00:52:25.699
it never changed anything. They would just send

00:52:25.699 --> 00:52:27.199
the email. They would never go deal with the

00:52:27.199 --> 00:52:30.320
actual rule breaker. And what it ended up doing

00:52:30.320 --> 00:52:32.480
was undermining anybody's sense of respect for

00:52:32.480 --> 00:52:35.559
the authority. Now we're talking about bison

00:52:35.559 --> 00:52:39.820
stew. Oh gosh. Yeah. Guys, if you ever get a

00:52:39.820 --> 00:52:45.780
chance to go to Lazy G and eat bison stew, you've

00:52:45.780 --> 00:52:48.420
got to make the trip. That was unreal, Jason.

00:52:49.659 --> 00:52:52.059
Do y 'all cook it over the fire or do you kind

00:52:52.059 --> 00:52:54.199
of pre prep it and then put the fire? I mean,

00:52:54.239 --> 00:52:56.519
everything's cooked. I started at seven 30 in

00:52:56.519 --> 00:53:00.019
the morning and we boil water. I put the meat

00:53:00.019 --> 00:53:04.489
in and then. We have a, we have a set list and

00:53:04.489 --> 00:53:06.690
a way that we add all the different components.

00:53:06.969 --> 00:53:08.389
Doing some alchemy in there and they've got the

00:53:08.389 --> 00:53:11.730
old recipe book out. It was legitimately, well,

00:53:11.750 --> 00:53:13.789
I mean, Bison's good to start with, but it was

00:53:13.789 --> 00:53:17.739
turning into gold. Um, You know, my favorite

00:53:17.739 --> 00:53:21.320
part was the hockey puck of bison that was in

00:53:21.320 --> 00:53:23.159
a couple of those. Yeah. And I remember being

00:53:23.159 --> 00:53:25.679
like, do I need to get a fork or maybe a pitchfork

00:53:25.679 --> 00:53:27.820
to get this in my mouth? But you could cut it

00:53:27.820 --> 00:53:30.079
with the spoon. You just bite a piece off. It

00:53:30.079 --> 00:53:32.340
was unreal. It's boy. I mean, that's the first

00:53:32.340 --> 00:53:34.400
thing that we put in. So it's cooked all day

00:53:34.400 --> 00:53:37.099
long. So it just falls apart. Usually it was

00:53:37.099 --> 00:53:40.619
unreal, man. Unreal. Everything I go to out there

00:53:40.619 --> 00:53:44.059
is top notch. Y 'all, y 'all do it right. Big

00:53:44.059 --> 00:53:46.440
Eddie likes to do it right. Go big or go home.

00:53:46.969 --> 00:53:50.130
Yeah. I also got fascinated looking at the mules

00:53:50.130 --> 00:53:53.909
that he was pulling the hay rod with. I've got

00:53:53.909 --> 00:53:56.449
a little nephew who, I say a little nephew, he's

00:53:56.449 --> 00:54:00.769
young compared to my old self, but he's got a

00:54:00.769 --> 00:54:03.210
nice set of mules that he pulls a covered wagon

00:54:03.210 --> 00:54:05.329
with, but man, those were some pretty animals.

00:54:05.469 --> 00:54:08.690
That's W .J. Stacks and he's from around Rickman

00:54:08.690 --> 00:54:14.789
and he still logs. Oh yeah. I mean, he's probably,

00:54:14.789 --> 00:54:18.389
he's probably Well into his seventies and he

00:54:18.389 --> 00:54:21.070
logs with, with mules, the old fashioned way.

00:54:21.409 --> 00:54:24.510
And he's just a standup guy. He's a great guy.

00:54:25.010 --> 00:54:26.929
Well, it looks like he takes care of his animals

00:54:26.929 --> 00:54:29.030
too. You can learn a lot about a man, about how

00:54:29.030 --> 00:54:31.329
he takes care of his animals. Yeah, he does.

00:54:31.489 --> 00:54:34.349
And he, he raises a lot of them and he sold a

00:54:34.349 --> 00:54:38.530
lot of animals over the years. There's a Mennonite

00:54:38.530 --> 00:54:43.610
community. kind of Southeast of us and they still

00:54:43.610 --> 00:54:46.369
run draft horses. And man, that's an impressive

00:54:46.369 --> 00:54:48.630
thing to go watch. Oh yeah. We used to have two

00:54:48.630 --> 00:54:52.210
big Belgians and man, they were beautiful. We

00:54:52.210 --> 00:54:56.809
just, we felt bad not utilizing them. So we sold

00:54:56.809 --> 00:55:00.429
them to someone who, who would, but now we have

00:55:00.429 --> 00:55:03.110
two quarter horses. They're half quarter horse,

00:55:03.289 --> 00:55:06.349
half Clydesdale. Okay. And they're full sisters

00:55:06.349 --> 00:55:10.250
and they're from out West and They're growing

00:55:10.250 --> 00:55:12.269
up to be beautiful horses and we're going to

00:55:12.269 --> 00:55:16.489
train them to pull. We have a real stage coach

00:55:16.489 --> 00:55:20.949
and we're going to train them to pull that. That's

00:55:20.949 --> 00:55:23.809
cool. I used to ride quarter horses and walking

00:55:23.809 --> 00:55:25.829
horses when I was a kid. I miss doing that. I

00:55:25.829 --> 00:55:27.550
keep thinking when we get a fence built, I might

00:55:27.550 --> 00:55:29.670
have to buy one of my daughters a horse. Don't

00:55:29.670 --> 00:55:35.250
tell her that. I've been around horses my whole

00:55:35.250 --> 00:55:39.780
life. My family has been highly successful. and

00:55:39.780 --> 00:55:42.840
highly competitive in both walking horses and

00:55:42.840 --> 00:55:46.280
cutting horses, which are quarter horses. My

00:55:46.280 --> 00:55:49.019
brother's wife, she put herself through college

00:55:49.019 --> 00:55:52.219
and she represented the United States of America

00:55:52.219 --> 00:55:58.340
in international cutting. Wow. And my first cousin

00:55:58.340 --> 00:56:01.079
was grand champion of the world in walking horses

00:56:01.079 --> 00:56:05.239
for like three years. He had a legendary horse

00:56:05.239 --> 00:56:08.869
and it's still known, Big Bad John. Yeah. But

00:56:08.869 --> 00:56:11.489
I've never gotten to be around them, because

00:56:11.489 --> 00:56:15.250
I'm allergic to them. Zyrtec won't fix it. Just

00:56:15.250 --> 00:56:17.289
the walking horses, though. Other horses are

00:56:17.289 --> 00:56:21.929
fine. Tennessee walkers are... So walking horse

00:56:21.929 --> 00:56:24.789
is one of our state animals. I mean, they are

00:56:24.789 --> 00:56:27.510
a fabulous watch. If you just watch them operate.

00:56:27.510 --> 00:56:30.329
It's really amazing. Maybe for some other episode,

00:56:30.710 --> 00:56:33.800
but you know. We kind of famously say that dogs

00:56:33.800 --> 00:56:35.900
are man's best friend, and it clearly does seem

00:56:35.900 --> 00:56:37.940
like the Lord gave dogs in a unique way, at least

00:56:37.940 --> 00:56:41.659
to the West. But horses and cattle, or, you know,

00:56:41.699 --> 00:56:43.940
bison, but horses and cattle have done a lot.

00:56:44.420 --> 00:56:47.159
Ruminants have done a lot for mankind, too. Horses

00:56:47.159 --> 00:56:51.500
have a special place in the human race and God's

00:56:51.500 --> 00:56:53.820
plan. I mean, even the Bible says the Lord rides

00:56:53.820 --> 00:56:56.579
a white horse. I was about to say. And that's

00:56:56.579 --> 00:57:00.139
obviously a symbol of power and victory. You

00:57:00.139 --> 00:57:02.559
know, depending on who you ask that may be metaphorical

00:57:02.559 --> 00:57:06.760
language, but horses are special. And there's

00:57:06.760 --> 00:57:08.860
a, there's a guy up the hall from us that has

00:57:08.860 --> 00:57:12.380
a little horse riding school that he does. And

00:57:12.380 --> 00:57:16.039
his, his technique is that he buys wild Mustangs

00:57:16.039 --> 00:57:19.599
for like 150 bucks. We've got two of them. Yeah.

00:57:20.059 --> 00:57:22.380
And, um, he says he's got a horse there. He's

00:57:22.380 --> 00:57:24.780
like, I wouldn't sell this thing for $25 ,000

00:57:24.780 --> 00:57:27.420
because I've put so much work into, and he loves

00:57:27.420 --> 00:57:30.219
that horse. Um, but that's kind of how he gets

00:57:30.219 --> 00:57:32.300
his animals and then he's just got the skills

00:57:32.300 --> 00:57:34.659
to turn it into a useful thing. But it's just,

00:57:34.719 --> 00:57:37.099
you take a wild animal. There's not a whole lot

00:57:37.099 --> 00:57:39.420
of wild animals that you can just make into a,

00:57:39.739 --> 00:57:41.920
you know, go, go catch a raccoon sometime and

00:57:41.920 --> 00:57:43.920
see how long it takes to get it to domesticate.

00:57:43.920 --> 00:57:45.400
Terry speaking from experience. Yeah. Well we

00:57:45.400 --> 00:57:47.639
had, ours is a domestic, I have a raccoon, which

00:57:47.639 --> 00:57:50.139
is another state animal for our state, but it

00:57:50.139 --> 00:57:52.780
comes from multiple generations of being, uh,

00:57:52.780 --> 00:57:56.719
pets and it's still very prickly about certain

00:57:56.719 --> 00:57:59.699
things. And so you know there's just some animals

00:57:59.699 --> 00:58:01.920
that are, I don't really recommend raccoons as

00:58:01.920 --> 00:58:06.000
a pet having some experience with that. But you

00:58:06.000 --> 00:58:09.099
know horses and dogs and I don't know, I'm partially

00:58:09.099 --> 00:58:12.960
convinced that bears one day will be domesticated

00:58:12.960 --> 00:58:15.300
animals. I've seen them. They like, they want

00:58:15.300 --> 00:58:17.929
to be around us. I want to hang around. They

00:58:17.929 --> 00:58:21.489
want to eat what we eat. That's how we got dogs,

00:58:21.489 --> 00:58:23.429
you know, they came up to the campfire and somebody

00:58:23.429 --> 00:58:25.590
said, here you go. We need to train one of those

00:58:25.590 --> 00:58:27.309
old school wrestling bears, you know, that have

00:58:27.309 --> 00:58:29.590
these competitions, declaw them and wrestle them.

00:58:29.630 --> 00:58:34.710
Home defense bear. I think horses symbolize just

00:58:34.710 --> 00:58:40.469
bridle power. Cause they, they are just so majestic

00:58:40.469 --> 00:58:45.750
in the strength that they have. They're very

00:58:45.750 --> 00:58:50.690
loyal. I've been around enough people that are

00:58:50.690 --> 00:58:54.050
around horses to learn some things about them.

00:58:54.650 --> 00:58:57.329
And they are very loyal to different people.

00:58:57.949 --> 00:59:01.409
And they can tell the difference in someone with

00:59:01.409 --> 00:59:04.510
good motives and someone with bad motives. Well,

00:59:04.829 --> 00:59:07.289
I mean, I guess probably kind of my being in

00:59:07.289 --> 00:59:09.170
life is that I'm inclined to think of these things

00:59:09.170 --> 00:59:12.750
as frou -frou. I've just been won over by the

00:59:12.750 --> 00:59:15.030
empirical evidence. There was a horse therapy

00:59:15.030 --> 00:59:18.750
place up in East Tennessee and kids who had real

00:59:18.750 --> 00:59:21.210
trouble, man, they would bond with a horse and

00:59:21.210 --> 00:59:23.429
it made real improvements in their life. And

00:59:23.429 --> 00:59:25.489
I just saw it enough. I'm like, this is not hippie

00:59:25.489 --> 00:59:28.510
stuff. There's something to it. I don't know

00:59:28.510 --> 00:59:30.070
if we'll ever be able to quantify it, but that's

00:59:30.070 --> 00:59:32.769
why I kind of went to cattle, dogs, and horses.

00:59:32.829 --> 00:59:34.630
There's something about them that they have a

00:59:34.630 --> 00:59:37.889
unique relationship to humanity. And it goes

00:59:37.889 --> 00:59:45.079
beyond mere Utility yeah, yeah, and there's a

00:59:45.079 --> 00:59:48.800
there's a link between the bison and the Native

00:59:48.800 --> 00:59:54.440
Americans Oh for sure That it blows my mind You

00:59:54.440 --> 00:59:57.539
can go on YouTube and search up the lazy G and

00:59:57.539 --> 01:00:00.940
there's a there's a video where my stepmom talks

01:00:00.940 --> 01:00:05.300
about one day there was a there was a Native

01:00:05.300 --> 01:00:07.699
American lady that came up and she said can I

01:00:07.699 --> 01:00:11.980
sing to the bison and Frida said, sure, I guess

01:00:11.980 --> 01:00:14.840
if you want to. And she started singing in her

01:00:14.840 --> 01:00:18.179
native tongue and the bison that were there,

01:00:18.179 --> 01:00:22.619
they were about between 30 and 40 bison and they

01:00:22.619 --> 01:00:28.139
all laid down. Really? And they just, there's,

01:00:28.460 --> 01:00:31.360
I don't know, I don't know how to, how to explain

01:00:31.360 --> 01:00:35.460
it or how to quantify it, but they, there's a

01:00:35.460 --> 01:00:39.400
direct link. Like with the Native Americans and

01:00:39.400 --> 01:00:42.739
the bison Well, yeah, I mean that would make

01:00:42.739 --> 01:00:45.440
maybe it's a cultural thing. Maybe horse cattle

01:00:45.440 --> 01:00:48.079
dog is for Westerners. Maybe Native Americans.

01:00:48.239 --> 01:00:52.460
It's bison But you know if that's a food supply

01:00:52.460 --> 01:00:56.340
you do become what you eat you have a connection

01:00:56.340 --> 01:01:01.139
to the things that compose who you are and Again

01:01:01.139 --> 01:01:03.320
can't ever quantify it. Maybe the Lord would

01:01:03.320 --> 01:01:06.139
explain it in glory someday, but That they have

01:01:06.139 --> 01:01:08.619
some kind of community connection. Yeah, I'm

01:01:08.619 --> 01:01:11.159
very open to them. Well, you know, Tolkien talked

01:01:11.159 --> 01:01:13.500
about this and I can't remember what it was in.

01:01:14.460 --> 01:01:17.260
But he he was kind of complaining like we don't

01:01:17.260 --> 01:01:19.440
eat food grown on our own land. We don't drink

01:01:19.440 --> 01:01:22.260
the water that comes out of our own creeks. And

01:01:22.260 --> 01:01:24.280
that's the reason why people don't you don't

01:01:24.280 --> 01:01:26.559
hear stories of people seeing wood nymphs and

01:01:26.559 --> 01:01:28.480
water sprites anymore. And I'm not sure how literal

01:01:28.480 --> 01:01:31.519
he was being, but the idea of like we've lost

01:01:31.519 --> 01:01:33.579
our connection to the places where we actually

01:01:33.579 --> 01:01:37.309
live and I've always found that to be an intriguing

01:01:37.309 --> 01:01:40.670
concept. I'm not necessarily looking to see fairies

01:01:40.670 --> 01:01:43.389
in the woods. I actually think there's some of

01:01:43.389 --> 01:01:46.190
this in Aquinas, too. I've not sussed it all

01:01:46.190 --> 01:01:50.269
the way out, but he certainly believed in subordinate,

01:01:50.369 --> 01:01:53.829
regional spirits. And it would make sense to

01:01:53.829 --> 01:01:55.829
me, you know, that there's that old tradition

01:01:55.829 --> 01:01:57.909
of when a baby was born, they'd go tell it to

01:01:57.909 --> 01:01:59.849
the trees. They'd go to the woods and let them

01:01:59.849 --> 01:02:03.389
know. I think we talked about this last episode.

01:02:03.940 --> 01:02:06.320
Lewis called it chronological snobbery to assume

01:02:06.320 --> 01:02:08.099
that those people are idiots for doing that.

01:02:08.599 --> 01:02:11.920
They had some good reason to do that. Yeah. I

01:02:11.920 --> 01:02:16.219
mean, I think there's definitely a dominion over

01:02:16.219 --> 01:02:19.039
certain lands that was given to different spiritual

01:02:19.039 --> 01:02:22.639
entities. Yeah, the Bible seems to indicate that.

01:02:22.719 --> 01:02:24.320
Prince of Persia, all that, you know, you can

01:02:24.320 --> 01:02:29.139
go as far as you want to. You don't just have

01:02:29.139 --> 01:02:30.980
to take like the little hints of like Prince

01:02:30.980 --> 01:02:33.219
of Persia, the Prince of Israel, your people.

01:02:33.780 --> 01:02:36.920
The Lord clearly is pleased to distribute His

01:02:36.920 --> 01:02:39.820
own greater ultimate authority through subordinate

01:02:39.820 --> 01:02:42.179
authorities. You know, nobody has a problem saying

01:02:42.179 --> 01:02:45.059
He administers His authority to restrain evil

01:02:45.059 --> 01:02:47.260
through the government, or to cultivate humans

01:02:47.260 --> 01:02:50.880
through the family, or to cultivate virtue and

01:02:50.880 --> 01:02:54.739
discipleship through the church. I imagine regionally

01:02:54.739 --> 01:02:56.639
there's probably some kind of distribution too.

01:03:00.589 --> 01:03:02.989
Well guys, thanks for, I think that's going to

01:03:02.989 --> 01:03:05.690
wrap things up. Thanks for coming and thanks

01:03:05.690 --> 01:03:08.550
for all the conversations. Sorry, I missed all

01:03:08.550 --> 01:03:11.110
of it. It's all right. Well, you missed some

01:03:11.110 --> 01:03:12.250
of it, but you came in there. You can listen

01:03:12.250 --> 01:03:15.449
to it when it comes out. I definitely will. Definitely

01:03:15.449 --> 01:03:18.389
will. Well, I guess we'll catch you guys next

01:03:18.389 --> 01:03:54.090
time. The drink put me down and the pills woke

01:03:54.090 --> 01:03:58.730
me up Spirit came by to feed on my lust Hooked

01:03:58.730 --> 01:04:02.250
on a craving, smothered in doubt Then I found

01:04:02.250 --> 01:04:05.909
Jesus and he broke me out