WEBVTT 00:00:04.389 --> 00:00:07.530 Welcome everyone to the very first Man of Issachar 00:00:07.530 --> 00:00:11.169 podcast I wanted to bring some of my very wise 00:00:11.169 --> 00:00:13.750 friends to the table and discuss some topics 00:00:13.750 --> 00:00:17.109 that are pretty pertinent to Christ seekers of 00:00:17.109 --> 00:00:21.489 today We walk through a range of topics from 00:00:21.489 --> 00:00:25.489 books to farming to Marxism So I hope you enjoy 00:00:31.760 --> 00:00:35.880 This is the Men of Issachar podcast and what 00:00:35.880 --> 00:00:39.439 we want to do, we want to discuss and just hit 00:00:39.439 --> 00:00:42.479 on topics that are relevant to Christians and 00:00:42.479 --> 00:00:45.219 to the Big -C Church. My name is Jason Gall. 00:00:46.140 --> 00:00:50.939 I'm a bison farmer and technology dude from Cookville, 00:00:51.079 --> 00:00:53.340 Tennessee. These are some of my friends I brought 00:00:53.340 --> 00:00:55.820 to the table. I just wanted to introduce you 00:00:55.820 --> 00:00:59.640 to them. The headmaster of the Hickory Classical 00:00:59.640 --> 00:01:01.560 Christian School in Cookeville, Tennessee, Mr. 00:01:01.719 --> 00:01:05.659 Terry Gant, and the pastor of Midway Baptist 00:01:05.659 --> 00:01:09.079 Church in Cookeville, Jeff Wright. Jason, thanks 00:01:09.079 --> 00:01:11.019 for, yeah, thanks for kicking this off for us, 00:01:11.120 --> 00:01:13.239 man. I appreciate you doing that. Interesting 00:01:13.239 --> 00:01:14.799 talking with you fellas. Yeah, this ought to 00:01:14.799 --> 00:01:16.859 be good. I'm looking forward to it. Somebody 00:01:16.859 --> 00:01:19.390 fire. All right, well let's start. We probably 00:01:19.390 --> 00:01:22.629 should start with the name, right? Men of Issachar. 00:01:23.049 --> 00:01:25.510 Seems kind of obscure if you don't know, but 00:01:25.510 --> 00:01:27.969 this comes from 1 Chronicles. This is a reference 00:01:27.969 --> 00:01:30.430 to a Bible verse where the men of Issachar are 00:01:30.430 --> 00:01:32.590 described as the men who understood the times 00:01:32.590 --> 00:01:35.890 and knew what Israel should do. So we got two 00:01:35.890 --> 00:01:38.189 things going on there, right? We've got understanding 00:01:38.189 --> 00:01:40.879 the times and then knowing what to do. I think 00:01:40.879 --> 00:01:42.959 this is gonna be kind of a grab bag of a podcast 00:01:42.959 --> 00:01:45.420 But hopefully at least some of what we talk about 00:01:45.420 --> 00:01:48.200 is what's going on and ethics, right? Like what 00:01:48.200 --> 00:01:51.359 what what actual actions do we take based on 00:01:51.359 --> 00:01:53.500 what's going on? Well, I think that that's got 00:01:53.500 --> 00:01:55.659 to be there's got to be a fundamental Christian 00:01:55.659 --> 00:02:00.120 virtue or excuse me ambition for men right, so 00:02:00.120 --> 00:02:02.739 Who do we need in households? Who do we need 00:02:02.739 --> 00:02:05.560 in churches? Who do we need in? a pair of church 00:02:05.560 --> 00:02:07.420 things like classical Christian schools, or even 00:02:07.420 --> 00:02:09.460 to know, hey, we ought to be educating our children 00:02:09.460 --> 00:02:12.479 classically. How do we help get that started? 00:02:13.039 --> 00:02:14.740 Well, it's people who've done the work to know 00:02:14.740 --> 00:02:17.159 what's going on and what the Bible has to say 00:02:17.159 --> 00:02:20.979 about how you meet it. And, I mean, honestly, 00:02:21.580 --> 00:02:24.560 as a pastor, one of the things that's troubling 00:02:24.560 --> 00:02:27.340 to me is that the church is clearly set up for 00:02:27.340 --> 00:02:32.120 older, wiser men and women to teach younger men 00:02:32.120 --> 00:02:34.500 and women the path of wisdom in a practical way. 00:02:34.650 --> 00:02:36.849 right? But it feels like we're just suffering 00:02:36.849 --> 00:02:40.189 from a lack of that. There's been kind of a confluence 00:02:40.189 --> 00:02:43.229 of things, commercialism, Attractional Church 00:02:43.229 --> 00:02:46.110 models. And so if we're going to have that at 00:02:46.110 --> 00:02:48.729 any time soon, we're going to have to be pursuing 00:02:48.729 --> 00:02:50.250 that. I don't know that I'm a man of Issa right 00:02:50.250 --> 00:02:53.990 now. I trust that you guys are, but it's definitely 00:02:53.990 --> 00:02:56.310 an ambition and something I'm giving my energies 00:02:56.310 --> 00:02:58.889 to try to cultivate. Yeah, it's definitely something 00:02:58.889 --> 00:03:02.250 that I... I want to strive for. And something 00:03:02.250 --> 00:03:05.289 God's just been showing me lately is, and Terry 00:03:05.289 --> 00:03:09.389 is to blame with this because Terry, he was my 00:03:09.389 --> 00:03:12.689 Sunday school teacher for a long time. And we 00:03:12.689 --> 00:03:15.250 touched on beauty, we touched on a couple different 00:03:15.250 --> 00:03:19.169 subjects, but it really drove home the point 00:03:19.169 --> 00:03:22.569 that being a Christian and following Jesus is 00:03:22.569 --> 00:03:26.770 more about direction than it is what level you 00:03:26.770 --> 00:03:30.300 are. because we're all different and I don't 00:03:30.300 --> 00:03:34.219 think we can be compared to one another fully 00:03:34.219 --> 00:03:37.960 and certain things we sure surely can. But I 00:03:37.960 --> 00:03:42.099 think it's more about direction and about who 00:03:42.099 --> 00:03:46.960 your life points to. Like we're called to be 00:03:46.960 --> 00:03:52.340 man after God's own heart and to seek hard after 00:03:52.340 --> 00:03:56.199 Jesus. Just for an example, like if you look 00:03:56.199 --> 00:04:00.819 at Beauty, The beautiful things, in my opinion, 00:04:01.759 --> 00:04:04.979 are the things that point to Jesus. Like art, 00:04:05.080 --> 00:04:10.240 as far as art goes, as far as music goes, there's 00:04:10.240 --> 00:04:17.199 tons of stuff that's pleasing in this world that 00:04:17.199 --> 00:04:20.800 the world would consider beautiful, which I don't 00:04:20.800 --> 00:04:23.839 think is beautiful. Sure. Are you supposed to 00:04:23.839 --> 00:04:26.160 pretend like it's beautiful when everything internally 00:04:26.160 --> 00:04:28.980 says this is hot garbage? Yes, I don't even know 00:04:28.980 --> 00:04:31.779 like your point stands But we have a lot of people 00:04:31.779 --> 00:04:33.899 who would who would put art in front of you And 00:04:33.899 --> 00:04:35.600 if you were to say that is not beautiful, they'd 00:04:35.600 --> 00:04:38.680 say well, it isn't supposed to be And it kind 00:04:38.680 --> 00:04:40.540 of begs the question of like what is the point 00:04:40.540 --> 00:04:44.279 of the art? if beauty is not at least one of 00:04:44.279 --> 00:04:47.139 the things you're trying to do with it and there's 00:04:47.139 --> 00:04:49.819 lots of different answers we hear from from contemporaries 00:04:49.819 --> 00:04:53.209 on that but But what does it point to and why? 00:04:54.129 --> 00:04:58.230 Right, so classically art and beauty was understood 00:04:58.230 --> 00:05:01.689 to reflect something that was reflective of God, 00:05:01.810 --> 00:05:05.350 his design, his own handiwork, right? Art has 00:05:05.350 --> 00:05:07.350 been reduced to self -expression and that's why 00:05:07.350 --> 00:05:10.629 they can put a toilet up and say, it is meaningful 00:05:10.629 --> 00:05:14.350 to me, therefore it must be artistic. I was late 00:05:14.350 --> 00:05:18.730 to the game on objective beauty. It just seems 00:05:18.730 --> 00:05:23.149 so hard to quantify. But the tumbler that kicked 00:05:23.149 --> 00:05:26.709 for me was, I believe in objective truth. I believe 00:05:26.709 --> 00:05:31.350 in objective goodness. And since those two concepts 00:05:31.350 --> 00:05:34.649 are so tightly wedded to beauty in Scripture, 00:05:35.410 --> 00:05:38.129 beauty must also have an objective nature. And 00:05:38.129 --> 00:05:41.050 I think I've kind of located it in, does it tell 00:05:41.050 --> 00:05:43.449 the truth about who God is and what He's done? 00:05:44.449 --> 00:05:48.550 So there is a way out of this morass of modern 00:05:48.550 --> 00:05:51.680 art. But like everything else, to your point 00:05:51.680 --> 00:05:55.560 about direction, it involves a return to pursuing 00:05:55.560 --> 00:05:58.579 the truth about who Jesus is and what He's done. 00:05:59.079 --> 00:06:02.279 The Mona Lisa is an easy example, right? I'm 00:06:02.279 --> 00:06:04.899 not entirely sure what Christian ambitions may 00:06:04.899 --> 00:06:08.959 have driven that creation, but it is a painstaking 00:06:08.959 --> 00:06:12.480 effort to capture a particular woman's countenance. 00:06:13.100 --> 00:06:17.939 And woman is a creation of God and the fairer 00:06:17.939 --> 00:06:22.939 creation of God. who embodies beauty. So that's 00:06:22.939 --> 00:06:25.019 what I have in mind when I say something true 00:06:25.019 --> 00:06:28.620 about Jesus or what He's done. Again, pastoral 00:06:28.620 --> 00:06:32.259 landscapes, I love those things. I think the 00:06:32.259 --> 00:06:34.379 reason I love them is because they reflect something 00:06:34.379 --> 00:06:38.160 that's actually accurate about the beauty of 00:06:38.160 --> 00:06:41.439 God's creation. It doesn't mean everything has 00:06:41.439 --> 00:06:46.550 to be. overtly doctrinal in its artistic representation, 00:06:47.089 --> 00:06:48.949 but it should tell the truth about Christ and 00:06:48.949 --> 00:06:52.269 His creation. Yeah, I would agree with all that. 00:06:52.990 --> 00:06:57.129 Hey, I'm curious if we're talking about the kind 00:06:57.129 --> 00:06:59.790 of what's going on right now. I think for me, 00:06:59.790 --> 00:07:02.990 I'm still living in the wake of Charlie Kirk's 00:07:02.990 --> 00:07:08.089 life and assassination broadly, right? Like that's 00:07:08.089 --> 00:07:10.110 kind of the big topic that's still, what are 00:07:10.110 --> 00:07:12.439 we, two weeks out, three weeks out? It was more 00:07:12.439 --> 00:07:16.500 than two. More than two. September 10th. Yeah, 00:07:16.800 --> 00:07:18.959 okay, so quite a bit out. Today's October 1st 00:07:18.959 --> 00:07:21.680 when the recording is. That's still true for 00:07:21.680 --> 00:07:23.100 y 'all. If you're thinking about like a national 00:07:23.100 --> 00:07:26.100 context, still the most dominant thought. I'm 00:07:26.100 --> 00:07:29.259 just curious where you're at since it's been 00:07:29.259 --> 00:07:33.759 more like 20 -something days. I think we all 00:07:33.759 --> 00:07:37.259 initially went through a state of horror. And 00:07:37.259 --> 00:07:39.000 then I think probably for most of the men that 00:07:39.000 --> 00:07:43.879 I know, a visceral rage. Then there seems to 00:07:43.879 --> 00:07:47.379 have come after that a clarion call to continue 00:07:47.379 --> 00:07:51.019 his work. Any developments from there? I'm just 00:07:51.019 --> 00:07:56.790 curious for y 'all. It seems now that it's almost 00:07:56.790 --> 00:08:00.329 like the the the the death of Charlie Kirk is 00:08:00.329 --> 00:08:02.490 almost like a lens through which I'm viewing 00:08:02.490 --> 00:08:04.949 like with subsequent things and like I've been 00:08:04.949 --> 00:08:09.569 watching for example the ICE versus Antifa clashes 00:08:09.569 --> 00:08:13.470 in Chicago And I just see them as downstream 00:08:13.470 --> 00:08:15.790 I know there there's not a direct connection 00:08:15.790 --> 00:08:17.990 that I am aware of between those two things But 00:08:17.990 --> 00:08:20.069 I think okay, this was left -wing violence that 00:08:20.069 --> 00:08:22.750 we've got with the murder of Charlie Kirk. This 00:08:22.750 --> 00:08:28.600 is and I've been underwhelmed with the response. 00:08:30.060 --> 00:08:33.419 And therefore it's emboldened the same kinds 00:08:33.419 --> 00:08:36.399 of elements to perpetrate further violence. So 00:08:36.399 --> 00:08:39.799 I see it as a, it's not the first left -wing 00:08:39.799 --> 00:08:42.259 violence we've seen. An argument can be made 00:08:42.259 --> 00:08:44.000 that it's not even the most brutal or severe. 00:08:44.379 --> 00:08:49.940 It was the most... Pop possibly shocking just 00:08:49.940 --> 00:08:51.460 because of the nature of how it went down but 00:08:51.460 --> 00:08:53.120 this isn't the first person that they've killed 00:08:53.120 --> 00:08:55.559 for for their beliefs or for being different 00:08:55.559 --> 00:08:59.639 and But for some reason this one really just 00:08:59.639 --> 00:09:03.480 captivated My thoughts as well, and I don't know 00:09:03.480 --> 00:09:05.139 if it's right to say I'm looking at everything 00:09:05.139 --> 00:09:07.200 kind of now through that lens But that's just 00:09:07.200 --> 00:09:11.620 sort of where my head's at Yeah, I'm definitely 00:09:11.620 --> 00:09:14.919 dealing with a lot of different angles looking 00:09:14.919 --> 00:09:19.940 at because I'm both sad and encouraged by what's 00:09:19.940 --> 00:09:23.019 come after it because there have been so many 00:09:23.019 --> 00:09:29.960 people that it is exposed evil in our world in 00:09:29.960 --> 00:09:32.500 a way that's undeniable. And they don't have 00:09:32.500 --> 00:09:36.440 any legs to stand on anymore. And there's a lot 00:09:36.440 --> 00:09:40.139 of people that are converting back to Christianity 00:09:40.139 --> 00:09:45.860 because they see the truth and the true nature. 00:09:46.460 --> 00:09:50.679 of decide they're serving versus decide Charlie 00:09:50.679 --> 00:09:53.440 Kirk was serving. Sure. I mean, it's a pretty 00:09:53.440 --> 00:09:56.620 visceral example of it's either Christ or chaos, 00:09:57.100 --> 00:10:00.960 that there's no third alternative, which is helpful 00:10:00.960 --> 00:10:04.059 in the long run because it kinda re -shocked 00:10:04.059 --> 00:10:07.779 us into reality. We've had it so good as a country 00:10:07.779 --> 00:10:10.259 for my adult life and beyond, you know, earlier 00:10:10.259 --> 00:10:13.679 even than that. I think we got pretty complacent 00:10:13.679 --> 00:10:15.759 about the benefits of Christ given to us. And 00:10:15.759 --> 00:10:18.980 this is one of those times where the Lord reminded 00:10:18.980 --> 00:10:21.580 us that, no, actually it's directly a gift from 00:10:21.580 --> 00:10:26.879 me. And if my hand of blessing is removed, if 00:10:26.879 --> 00:10:29.220 I'm provoked in such a way that judgment increases, 00:10:30.559 --> 00:10:34.299 you're not going to like that world. And so, 00:10:34.299 --> 00:10:37.480 of course, you wouldn't want to pull Charlie 00:10:37.480 --> 00:10:40.019 out of heaven. But in a general sense, we'd rather 00:10:40.019 --> 00:10:42.750 have Charlie alive. But it's clearly one of those 00:10:42.750 --> 00:10:44.549 times where the Lord has brought really good 00:10:44.549 --> 00:10:48.389 out of evil. But to kind of leap from that back 00:10:48.389 --> 00:10:53.990 to what you said, Terry, pursuit and driving 00:10:53.990 --> 00:10:57.269 out the enemy, I think to say it in a more healthy 00:10:57.269 --> 00:10:59.850 way, I feel more ambitious than I've ever been. 00:11:00.350 --> 00:11:03.149 There's so much remaining good in our culture 00:11:03.149 --> 00:11:05.570 that I guess I had just become a little black 00:11:05.570 --> 00:11:08.970 pill toward. Now you look everywhere and you 00:11:08.970 --> 00:11:12.200 see it. How many frustrated there's not more 00:11:12.200 --> 00:11:15.720 follow -up? Yeah, and so many people cared When 00:11:15.720 --> 00:11:18.460 when Charlie died, I wasn't a giant Charlie Kirk 00:11:18.460 --> 00:11:20.919 fan before I didn't dislike him But I didn't 00:11:20.919 --> 00:11:23.139 watch his stuff regularly, but I knew who he 00:11:23.139 --> 00:11:25.279 was and I thought that his work was fine and 00:11:25.279 --> 00:11:28.539 good and There's probably a lot of people like 00:11:28.539 --> 00:11:31.419 me who had heard of him but didn't follow him 00:11:31.419 --> 00:11:33.899 and they were still outraged by what happened 00:11:33.899 --> 00:11:37.019 and it's not it's because of what Charlie represented 00:11:37.019 --> 00:11:40.779 in addition to just the outrage of his specific 00:11:40.779 --> 00:11:45.700 murder and People have not it doesn't seem like 00:11:45.700 --> 00:11:48.399 it's it's had the same effect that the left probably 00:11:48.399 --> 00:11:51.259 hoped it would Which is the kind of the silencing 00:11:51.259 --> 00:11:54.299 of of people like him? It's it's just fired up 00:11:54.299 --> 00:11:57.460 people more and Charlie's unique He may not be 00:11:57.460 --> 00:11:59.679 able to necessarily just be easily replaced in 00:11:59.679 --> 00:12:01.440 spite of what appears to be some efforts to do 00:12:01.440 --> 00:12:04.960 so But if there's a million Charlie Kirk's and 00:12:04.960 --> 00:12:08.220 each one of them has 10 % of his talent then 00:12:08.220 --> 00:12:11.139 that's still a lot of people doing some good 00:12:11.139 --> 00:12:15.600 and working to try to make things better. I think 00:12:15.600 --> 00:12:18.639 he planted a lot of seeds and I think they're 00:12:18.639 --> 00:12:21.700 coming to fruition now because of his death. 00:12:22.559 --> 00:12:26.279 I think his death sparked a lot of thoughts and 00:12:26.279 --> 00:12:29.259 he planted a lot of wisdom that is now coming 00:12:29.259 --> 00:12:31.559 to fruition and it's coming out through different 00:12:31.559 --> 00:12:36.269 outlets and I'm encouraged by that. Yeah, I mean 00:12:36.269 --> 00:12:38.110 really to get down to like what's needful in 00:12:38.110 --> 00:12:40.610 this moment, kind of the theme of the podcast. 00:12:42.070 --> 00:12:44.690 And it again ties to your idea about I've just 00:12:44.690 --> 00:12:47.149 been just not impressed by the follow -up to 00:12:47.149 --> 00:12:49.710 deal with his murderers and things like that. 00:12:50.169 --> 00:12:53.330 I guess the thing that this far out from it is, 00:12:53.750 --> 00:12:56.409 I guess the thing I feel most pressing on me 00:12:56.409 --> 00:13:00.490 is that it's time for all gas, no breaks. Every 00:13:00.490 --> 00:13:03.370 godly ambition should be pursued. We should be 00:13:03.370 --> 00:13:08.809 completely done. with theological and civic compromisers 00:13:08.809 --> 00:13:11.129 that there's, you know, kind of the idea that, 00:13:11.129 --> 00:13:13.049 well, both sides have strengths to offer. Let's 00:13:13.049 --> 00:13:15.490 just, I just think it's time to let that stuff 00:13:15.490 --> 00:13:18.169 be evaporated. Well, I think that's one of the 00:13:18.169 --> 00:13:19.950 great awakenings that's kind of happening, is 00:13:19.950 --> 00:13:22.210 that there was a time when you could articulate 00:13:22.210 --> 00:13:23.950 that the right and the left both want the same 00:13:23.950 --> 00:13:26.669 things and they have different methods. And that's 00:13:26.669 --> 00:13:29.080 clearly not true. Anymore, which has not been 00:13:29.080 --> 00:13:30.740 true for a long time, but I think this has woken 00:13:30.740 --> 00:13:32.740 up a lot of people to the reality that this is 00:13:32.740 --> 00:13:35.519 not a This is not a discussion about methods. 00:13:35.539 --> 00:13:38.440 This is a discussion about outcomes and It's 00:13:38.440 --> 00:13:40.700 existential. There's going to be a winner and 00:13:40.700 --> 00:13:44.200 a loser and it's and you know, this is not Like 00:13:44.200 --> 00:13:45.580 tomorrow we're going to wake up and it's going 00:13:45.580 --> 00:13:48.840 to be a communist takeover but in the long run 00:13:48.840 --> 00:13:51.799 we're fighting against evil and darkness and 00:13:51.799 --> 00:13:55.399 They are fighting against good And I had an article 00:13:55.399 --> 00:13:59.179 just at American Reformer, and it was about the 00:13:59.179 --> 00:14:03.279 vanishing middle ground. And it was done in the 00:14:03.279 --> 00:14:04.980 context of classical schools, like that's kind 00:14:04.980 --> 00:14:06.259 of what I had in mind because I was reacting 00:14:06.259 --> 00:14:08.620 to a tweet where someone was trying to ride the 00:14:08.620 --> 00:14:12.100 fence on this. Articulate that like well a class 00:14:12.100 --> 00:14:13.620 school is really just about human beings It's 00:14:13.620 --> 00:14:15.919 not about right versus left and my position is 00:14:15.919 --> 00:14:17.679 that classical schools need to be done with that 00:14:17.679 --> 00:14:19.919 they need to they need to just openly acknowledge 00:14:19.919 --> 00:14:22.639 that they're right -wing institutions and guard 00:14:22.639 --> 00:14:27.139 that and It's just it seems clear that with Charlie's 00:14:27.139 --> 00:14:29.460 death and the fault the outcome which Jason you 00:14:29.460 --> 00:14:31.980 were referring to like the the exposure of the 00:14:31.980 --> 00:14:35.039 evil and how widespread now a lot of the people 00:14:35.039 --> 00:14:36.620 that were celebrating his death would never pull 00:14:36.620 --> 00:14:40.120 a trigger themselves, but they are Endorsing 00:14:40.120 --> 00:14:43.539 and enjoying other people's evil deeds and and 00:14:43.539 --> 00:14:47.360 you know celebrating those so whatever middle 00:14:47.360 --> 00:14:50.320 ground that there has been is really drawing 00:14:50.320 --> 00:14:52.620 up quick and it's gotten to the point where you 00:14:52.620 --> 00:14:55.399 kind of need to pick a side or You're going to 00:14:55.399 --> 00:14:58.419 find yourself with no allies and both sides are 00:14:58.419 --> 00:15:01.120 going to either not trust you or outright hate 00:15:01.120 --> 00:15:02.720 you, which I think has been true for the left 00:15:02.720 --> 00:15:05.200 for a while. They've always been as far back 00:15:05.200 --> 00:15:07.399 as I can remember. If you're not 100 % in lockstep 00:15:07.399 --> 00:15:10.320 with whatever today's dogma is, you're out. The 00:15:10.320 --> 00:15:12.639 right's more tolerant, but the tolerance is starting 00:15:12.639 --> 00:15:15.240 to go away. And if you're not on our side, we're 00:15:15.240 --> 00:15:17.970 just going to assume you're with them. So, I 00:15:17.970 --> 00:15:20.750 think classical schools in particular need to 00:15:20.750 --> 00:15:22.629 be thinking in those terms, because that's what 00:15:22.629 --> 00:15:24.629 their constituency ultimately, I think, wants. 00:15:25.490 --> 00:15:27.330 And they've just got to be prepared, because 00:15:27.330 --> 00:15:28.889 the left is going to continue to come for them, 00:15:28.889 --> 00:15:31.909 even if they try to ride the line. Nobody's going 00:15:31.909 --> 00:15:35.990 to tolerate the killerism like they used to. 00:15:35.990 --> 00:15:39.649 That's just clearly a broken approach. Well, 00:15:39.710 --> 00:15:41.230 what you just said about classical schools, I 00:15:41.230 --> 00:15:42.809 think is certainly true for the church as well, 00:15:42.809 --> 00:15:45.490 and for the same reason. So, Keller, Tim Keller. 00:15:45.799 --> 00:15:50.480 who I believe is probably in heaven, nonetheless 00:15:50.480 --> 00:15:53.840 gave a pretty terrible legacy of sort of always 00:15:53.840 --> 00:15:57.679 catering to the left, holding the right at an 00:15:57.679 --> 00:16:00.480 arm's distance as an idea of an evangelistic 00:16:00.480 --> 00:16:03.980 strategy. Well, it collapsed probably by the 00:16:03.980 --> 00:16:06.059 time Keller died, if not immediately thereafter. 00:16:06.679 --> 00:16:09.620 New York is no different because Tim Keller wanted 00:16:09.620 --> 00:16:13.740 to make Christianity palatable to urban elites. 00:16:14.269 --> 00:16:16.929 But America's different because Charlie Kirk 00:16:16.929 --> 00:16:20.490 was very clear about where the lines were and 00:16:20.490 --> 00:16:24.049 what the unavoidable alternatives were. And I 00:16:24.049 --> 00:16:26.129 guess what you're saying about a classical school, 00:16:26.210 --> 00:16:27.610 I think it's certainly true of the church as 00:16:27.610 --> 00:16:31.590 well. Only the kingdom transcends categories 00:16:31.590 --> 00:16:34.269 of right -wing and left -wing, but those categories 00:16:34.269 --> 00:16:38.070 reflect greater conformity or less. And we should 00:16:38.070 --> 00:16:41.620 be unashamed about which that is. And it's time 00:16:41.620 --> 00:16:43.759 to be done with sort of the, well, let's tiptoe 00:16:43.759 --> 00:16:47.159 around the feelings of people who, I don't know, 00:16:47.200 --> 00:16:50.039 think that the left is more compassionate. Let's 00:16:50.039 --> 00:16:53.080 just talk in frank moral categories, call people 00:16:53.080 --> 00:16:55.919 to join in. And if you're not going to, we're 00:16:55.919 --> 00:16:59.179 going to move on without you. I would love to 00:16:59.179 --> 00:17:02.159 talk just a little bit. I don't know how much 00:17:02.159 --> 00:17:04.940 you guys know about Marxism. I guess it's my 00:17:04.940 --> 00:17:10.519 opinion that Marxism is a core principle that 00:17:10.460 --> 00:17:13.420 a lot of the left adheres to, but most of them 00:17:13.420 --> 00:17:15.859 don't even know about Marxism. They just know 00:17:15.859 --> 00:17:19.880 some of the components of Marxism. And I think 00:17:19.880 --> 00:17:23.200 that if those things were exposed, people might 00:17:23.200 --> 00:17:27.140 get a better picture of the left and some of 00:17:27.140 --> 00:17:31.779 the tactics that they use, such as division and 00:17:31.779 --> 00:17:34.539 posing people groups against people groups. Sure. 00:17:35.140 --> 00:17:37.299 Just some of the mentalities. Do any of you guys 00:17:37.299 --> 00:17:40.009 have any wisdom on? That or does that spark any 00:17:40.009 --> 00:17:43.210 thought? It's been a while since I've read the 00:17:43.210 --> 00:17:47.390 Communist Manifesto, but I have read it And then 00:17:47.390 --> 00:17:49.710 he's got his other big book Das Kapital or just 00:17:49.710 --> 00:17:51.869 capitalism. I think it's often when it's translated 00:17:51.869 --> 00:17:55.470 into So, I don't know what's the I'm trying to 00:17:55.470 --> 00:18:02.930 think of how to succinctly Like summarize Marx's 00:18:02.930 --> 00:18:07.750 view and all of life is class struggle Well, 00:18:07.930 --> 00:18:12.470 it's basically trying to, in my opinion, what 00:18:12.470 --> 00:18:16.210 the goal of Marxism was is to create a utopianistic 00:18:16.210 --> 00:18:20.069 society without God. Yeah, that's certainly true. 00:18:20.150 --> 00:18:22.009 I think it's interesting to think about what 00:18:22.009 --> 00:18:24.650 you're saying about methodology. So, yeah, I've 00:18:24.650 --> 00:18:27.529 read Marx. I'm also familiar with the Frankfurt 00:18:27.529 --> 00:18:31.710 School and really the kind of insanity of the 00:18:31.710 --> 00:18:34.609 project, but you see it everywhere. The insanity 00:18:34.609 --> 00:18:37.369 of the project through the Frankfurt lens is 00:18:37.369 --> 00:18:43.150 that if society can be reduced to rubble, a new 00:18:43.150 --> 00:18:47.289 order of utopia will spring forth spontaneously. 00:18:48.910 --> 00:18:53.549 It's insane in a way that's hard to think that 00:18:53.549 --> 00:18:56.289 any rational human being would embrace. But that's 00:18:56.289 --> 00:18:58.769 really what they believe. If we can destroy all 00:18:58.769 --> 00:19:01.490 of this, this new order is going to leap into 00:19:01.490 --> 00:19:05.250 existence. And that's why you see cities burned 00:19:05.250 --> 00:19:09.269 and people mutilated and all that. They really 00:19:09.269 --> 00:19:12.509 actually believe the route to growth is destruction. 00:19:13.390 --> 00:19:15.150 That's what we're up against. We're up against 00:19:15.150 --> 00:19:18.410 a totalizing worldview that says the only way 00:19:18.410 --> 00:19:22.029 forward is to destroy everything. And its kind 00:19:22.029 --> 00:19:25.690 of ultimate goal is is a pure form of egalitarianism, 00:19:25.970 --> 00:19:28.750 sort of. There's always ulterior motives, and 00:19:28.750 --> 00:19:30.990 I don't think that Marx would have been okay 00:19:30.990 --> 00:19:34.450 with just being one of many. He would have wanted 00:19:34.450 --> 00:19:36.289 to be an elite. That tends to be the way it is 00:19:36.289 --> 00:19:37.690 with these movements, but the idea... Well, he 00:19:37.690 --> 00:19:39.269 came from a wealthy family, right? Like, I mean, 00:19:39.430 --> 00:19:41.730 he was kind of a ne 'er -do -well from a... Yeah. 00:19:41.890 --> 00:19:45.109 He was sort of a... He was kind of like a freeloader 00:19:45.109 --> 00:19:47.630 off his roommate when he grew up and started 00:19:47.630 --> 00:19:51.329 writing and things like that, but... Yeah, I 00:19:51.329 --> 00:19:54.529 mean it's the egalitarianism I think it gets 00:19:54.529 --> 00:19:57.390 back to the really the core of it which is they 00:19:57.390 --> 00:19:59.369 hate God and they don't want there to be a God 00:19:59.369 --> 00:20:02.069 and they want to be like God and they want to 00:20:02.069 --> 00:20:04.230 get everybody else on board with their radical 00:20:04.230 --> 00:20:05.970 vision so they say we can all just be like God 00:20:05.970 --> 00:20:10.269 together and We'll just be equal and everything 00:20:10.269 --> 00:20:12.849 will be fine. No problems will happen because 00:20:12.849 --> 00:20:15.759 everyone will be the same Just kind of reducing 00:20:15.759 --> 00:20:18.240 humanity to like an amorphous mass and we see 00:20:18.240 --> 00:20:21.380 this with I mean with I mean even with like Transgenderism 00:20:21.380 --> 00:20:24.819 you have this idea that gender is nothing It 00:20:24.819 --> 00:20:26.460 can be changed. It's mutable. It's just whatever 00:20:26.460 --> 00:20:28.359 your preference is because it doesn't really 00:20:28.359 --> 00:20:30.920 matter That's kind of what what the the bottom 00:20:30.920 --> 00:20:33.559 of that philosophy is It's just your preference 00:20:33.559 --> 00:20:35.779 of how to express yourself and everybody's all 00:20:35.779 --> 00:20:37.759 the same and there's no real differences worth 00:20:37.759 --> 00:20:41.039 mentioning I think that's ultimately the destruction 00:20:41.039 --> 00:20:43.400 of the family. Yeah, I mean where that's trying 00:20:43.400 --> 00:20:46.839 to take us but where else is hierarchy more clearly 00:20:46.839 --> 00:20:49.759 visible right between parents and children husband 00:20:49.759 --> 00:20:52.940 and the rest of the family and in long -term 00:20:52.940 --> 00:20:55.779 like on a long enough time scale nations in many 00:20:55.779 --> 00:20:59.039 cases just emerge from clans right like Tolkien 00:20:59.039 --> 00:21:01.259 references this with one of the hobbits that 00:21:01.259 --> 00:21:02.920 talks about how he moved across the water had 00:21:02.920 --> 00:21:05.140 a bunch of kids they had a bunch of kids after 00:21:05.140 --> 00:21:06.819 two or three generations he basically had his 00:21:06.819 --> 00:21:09.339 own city and country of his own that was all 00:21:09.339 --> 00:21:13.680 just descended from him. Goals. Yeah. Goals right 00:21:13.680 --> 00:21:15.700 there. Y 'all heard me talk about this multiple 00:21:15.700 --> 00:21:19.539 context, but to that point, I think you can go 00:21:19.539 --> 00:21:22.440 even beyond family or church or all these institutions 00:21:22.440 --> 00:21:26.079 in that it's ultimately an anti -creation project. 00:21:26.140 --> 00:21:28.900 Yeah. So, you know, just quick summary. When 00:21:28.900 --> 00:21:31.819 you meet the world in Genesis, it's formless 00:21:31.819 --> 00:21:35.619 and void. And the way God does what we call creation, 00:21:35.799 --> 00:21:38.500 is he begins to shape with boundaries and distinctions. 00:21:38.920 --> 00:21:42.480 Light separated from dark, day from night, man 00:21:42.480 --> 00:21:45.799 from woman, right? And so all these categories 00:21:45.799 --> 00:21:48.460 of distinction are intrinsic to the order that 00:21:48.460 --> 00:21:51.099 God has established. And Marxism really does 00:21:51.099 --> 00:21:54.200 fundamentally seem to be, let's get rid of every 00:21:54.200 --> 00:21:56.319 possible distinction, right down to the distinction 00:21:56.319 --> 00:21:59.559 between man and woman. Well, even to the distinction 00:21:59.559 --> 00:22:02.420 of changing definitions of words, I mean, it 00:22:02.420 --> 00:22:06.109 talks about that. Sure. And to your point about 00:22:06.109 --> 00:22:09.750 their tactics and are people aware, you know, 00:22:09.769 --> 00:22:11.589 one of the first questions that came out of Charlie's 00:22:11.589 --> 00:22:14.529 murder was, why Charlie? He's like the nicest 00:22:14.529 --> 00:22:17.210 among us, right? Well, again, with the Frankfurt 00:22:17.210 --> 00:22:19.630 School, they pulled off what's famously called 00:22:19.630 --> 00:22:23.069 the Long March through the institutions, particularly 00:22:23.069 --> 00:22:25.650 higher education, or I say higher education, 00:22:26.190 --> 00:22:28.390 all education. Education in general, yeah. So 00:22:28.390 --> 00:22:30.990 this is going to take generations, but we're 00:22:30.990 --> 00:22:34.490 going to capture educational institutions because 00:22:34.490 --> 00:22:36.569 they understand in a way the church has been 00:22:36.569 --> 00:22:40.230 lazy and understanding that education is discipleship. 00:22:40.630 --> 00:22:43.150 And so they capture institutions. Everybody knows 00:22:43.150 --> 00:22:45.230 higher education is in chaos. Everybody knows 00:22:45.230 --> 00:22:47.710 the government school system is in chaos. That's 00:22:47.710 --> 00:22:50.289 because they did the long march through the institutions. 00:22:51.289 --> 00:22:53.529 Charlie was running their playbook against them. 00:22:53.630 --> 00:22:56.750 He was going to their territory, these captured 00:22:56.750 --> 00:23:00.089 institutions, and saying, I'll change the minds 00:23:00.089 --> 00:23:03.509 of young people. I think part of the reason he 00:23:03.509 --> 00:23:07.490 was so hated is that he was doing back to them 00:23:07.490 --> 00:23:10.410 what they had pulled off on a sane world generations 00:23:10.410 --> 00:23:13.829 ago. He was so effective. Well, I have just read 00:23:13.829 --> 00:23:16.170 something about, I was comparing him to Socrates, 00:23:16.430 --> 00:23:19.529 and he was killed for similar reasons. That's 00:23:19.529 --> 00:23:22.250 apt, yeah. Because Socrates was basically embarrassing 00:23:22.250 --> 00:23:25.109 the intelligentsia of his day, and so they charged 00:23:25.109 --> 00:23:26.630 him with corrupting the youth and they killed 00:23:26.630 --> 00:23:29.750 him for it, and that's... That's pretty similar. 00:23:29.910 --> 00:23:31.769 Like, he's questioning the current dogmas that 00:23:31.769 --> 00:23:34.869 are accepted by academia. And he's, if nothing 00:23:34.869 --> 00:23:36.450 else, even if he doesn't get everybody on board 00:23:36.450 --> 00:23:38.549 with his particular views, he's embarrassing 00:23:38.549 --> 00:23:41.190 the professoriate, right? He's showing that they 00:23:41.190 --> 00:23:43.430 don't know very much. It's sort of the emperor's 00:23:43.430 --> 00:23:45.210 new clothes. He's sitting there pointing out, 00:23:45.250 --> 00:23:48.890 well, those guys are naked. No. Yeah. And I really 00:23:48.890 --> 00:23:50.970 do think it offends sort of the Marxist sensibility 00:23:50.970 --> 00:23:53.670 that, I mean, you've seen it with the state. 00:23:53.960 --> 00:23:57.059 At least in my adult life from the Obama administration 00:23:57.059 --> 00:23:59.000 where they were saying, we're going to extend 00:23:59.000 --> 00:24:02.880 the school day. And I remember his secretary 00:24:02.880 --> 00:24:04.500 of education. I can't remember the dude's name, 00:24:04.700 --> 00:24:07.700 but he had a background in basketball. He played 00:24:07.700 --> 00:24:09.220 in an Ivy league. But he said, look, parents 00:24:09.220 --> 00:24:10.640 don't want to, they don't have to deal with the 00:24:10.640 --> 00:24:13.039 hassle of taking care of their kids. So let the 00:24:13.039 --> 00:24:15.619 government school system feed them dinner. Let 00:24:15.619 --> 00:24:17.460 them, you know, let us watch them. We'll take 00:24:17.460 --> 00:24:20.160 them out of your hair. The Marxist worldview 00:24:20.160 --> 00:24:22.680 basically understands that children are the property 00:24:22.680 --> 00:24:26.039 of the community. And they operate along those 00:24:26.039 --> 00:24:29.079 lines. I mean, that's why they hate Christianity 00:24:29.079 --> 00:24:30.980 so much, but it's also why they hated Charlie, 00:24:31.539 --> 00:24:33.799 because Charlie was coming in and taking what 00:24:33.799 --> 00:24:36.859 they understood to be their property and giving 00:24:36.859 --> 00:24:41.380 an off -ramp from that. I just think the way 00:24:41.380 --> 00:24:43.460 that you and I would feel if somebody had broken 00:24:43.460 --> 00:24:47.299 into our house and stole some priceless family 00:24:47.299 --> 00:24:50.160 heirloom, I think that's how the left saw Charlie 00:24:50.160 --> 00:24:52.880 Kirk. How dare you take this thing that is... 00:24:52.829 --> 00:24:55.529 quintessentially ours, which is the mind of young 00:24:55.529 --> 00:24:58.210 people. We stole it fair and square. Right. Right. 00:24:58.230 --> 00:25:01.549 How dare you steal it back? Jeff, are you reading 00:25:01.549 --> 00:25:03.970 anything interesting right now? Yeah, I'm reading 00:25:03.970 --> 00:25:06.970 a book by David Haynes called Natural Theology. 00:25:07.710 --> 00:25:11.529 I'd recommend it. So, Natural Theology gets a 00:25:11.529 --> 00:25:14.630 bad rap in Reformed circles. I'm part of the 00:25:14.630 --> 00:25:17.650 Reformed tradition as a Baptist. Presbyterians 00:25:17.650 --> 00:25:20.210 out there can freak out about that if they want, 00:25:20.250 --> 00:25:26.009 but... I am. And so David Haynes is presenting 00:25:26.009 --> 00:25:30.029 a vision of what we would call natural law and 00:25:30.029 --> 00:25:31.849 showing that it's very consistent with reform 00:25:31.849 --> 00:25:34.910 tradition. And I actually think it's a really 00:25:34.910 --> 00:25:40.150 relevant and needed topic right now. Not to bore 00:25:40.150 --> 00:25:42.609 anybody, but there was a famous apologist in 00:25:42.609 --> 00:25:46.000 reform circles named Cornelius Van Teel. And 00:25:46.000 --> 00:25:50.420 Van Til is helpful because he demands that we 00:25:50.420 --> 00:25:52.900 view the Christian worldview as absolute. So 00:25:52.900 --> 00:25:56.579 he would say, if I'm a believer and Terry's not 00:25:56.579 --> 00:26:00.359 a believer, when we look at a single rose, we 00:26:00.359 --> 00:26:03.619 do not see the same thing in absolute terms. 00:26:04.180 --> 00:26:09.240 I see a thoughtfully crafted expression of God's 00:26:09.240 --> 00:26:13.380 creative goodness. Terry sees a random product 00:26:13.380 --> 00:26:16.779 of atoms bumping into each other. So I don't 00:26:16.779 --> 00:26:19.299 hate Van Teel. I think he's very helpful in that 00:26:19.299 --> 00:26:22.559 way. But Van Teel, you can imagine if Van Teel 00:26:22.559 --> 00:26:25.759 is that absolute on Christians and non -Christians 00:26:25.759 --> 00:26:28.859 don't understand the world the same. He doesn't 00:26:28.859 --> 00:26:30.900 have a category for something we would share 00:26:30.900 --> 00:26:34.819 in common like a natural law that says Terry 00:26:34.819 --> 00:26:38.240 if he represents unbelievers in this hypothetical. 00:26:39.640 --> 00:26:43.019 Terry has no reason to believe that murder is 00:26:43.019 --> 00:26:46.000 wrong. As a Christian, I definitely do. But what 00:26:46.000 --> 00:26:49.980 we know from human experience is, broadly, even 00:26:49.980 --> 00:26:53.279 pagans recognize that murder is wrong. And so 00:26:53.279 --> 00:26:55.940 Haynes is kind of recovering that we can meaningfully 00:26:55.940 --> 00:27:00.519 talk about a natural law that governs and, I 00:27:00.519 --> 00:27:02.660 mean, that Christians have in fullness because 00:27:02.660 --> 00:27:05.279 we're aided by the special revelation of Scripture, 00:27:05.619 --> 00:27:08.799 but that everybody has access to. And the reason 00:27:08.799 --> 00:27:13.160 I think it's timely is that the nature of what 00:27:13.160 --> 00:27:16.160 it means to be a conservative is still very much 00:27:16.160 --> 00:27:19.299 up in the air, right? Donald Trump is not Ronald 00:27:19.299 --> 00:27:23.819 Reagan. Who gets to be the gatekeeper on which 00:27:23.819 --> 00:27:26.839 of those guys is more right anyway? Well, I think 00:27:26.839 --> 00:27:31.500 the essence of conservativism is conserving any 00:27:31.500 --> 00:27:35.160 attainment of honoring the natural law, God's 00:27:35.160 --> 00:27:39.529 natural law. And so I'm thankful Haynes wrote 00:27:39.529 --> 00:27:43.089 the book because it's giving what I think is 00:27:43.089 --> 00:27:46.049 a roadmap to conservatives. I can work in the 00:27:46.049 --> 00:27:49.089 civic arena with someone who understands that 00:27:49.089 --> 00:27:51.890 men are men and women are women, because we actually 00:27:51.890 --> 00:27:55.250 do both have access to a natural law. Outside 00:27:55.250 --> 00:27:57.170 of that civic project, I'm going to try to help 00:27:57.170 --> 00:28:00.269 that person understand why that is and what the 00:28:00.269 --> 00:28:02.829 ramifications are. But we can actually be conservatives 00:28:02.829 --> 00:28:06.630 together in a civic project. insofar as we both 00:28:06.630 --> 00:28:09.130 aspire to conform to God's natural law, if that 00:28:09.130 --> 00:28:11.269 makes sense. So yeah, it's interesting. It's 00:28:11.269 --> 00:28:13.789 good. I'd recommend it. There's a bigger volume 00:28:13.789 --> 00:28:17.650 set of books that he wrote, and I'm not a fan 00:28:17.650 --> 00:28:20.829 of Davenett Institute, but Davenett published 00:28:20.829 --> 00:28:26.589 a more approachable sort of distillation that 00:28:26.589 --> 00:28:30.430 he wrote that's aimed at lay readers. I'd recommend 00:28:30.430 --> 00:28:33.269 both. It's really good. What about you? Well, 00:28:33.269 --> 00:28:35.470 I just started reading, like I said earlier, 00:28:35.849 --> 00:28:39.910 it's kind of a biography of John Sevier. It's 00:28:39.910 --> 00:28:42.509 relevant. We're recording this in Tennessee. 00:28:43.710 --> 00:28:45.650 And Sevier was our first governor and one of 00:28:45.650 --> 00:28:47.549 the founding fathers of Tennessee. So the book 00:28:47.549 --> 00:28:50.250 is from the 1800s. It's called The Rear Guard 00:28:50.250 --> 00:28:53.210 of the Revolution. And it's kind of a biography 00:28:53.210 --> 00:28:55.710 of Sevier, but it's really more about the formation 00:28:55.710 --> 00:28:58.390 of the settlements west of the Appalachian Mountains 00:28:58.390 --> 00:29:02.099 in the early Like more than the 1750s and 60s 00:29:02.099 --> 00:29:04.000 leading into the American Revolution. And there's 00:29:04.000 --> 00:29:07.359 a second book called John severe Commonwealth 00:29:07.359 --> 00:29:10.339 builder, I think is the title. And I've got that 00:29:10.339 --> 00:29:11.940 one on the shelf. I'll probably read next, but 00:29:11.940 --> 00:29:14.099 this is relevant to me because our school has 00:29:14.099 --> 00:29:17.259 a hall system and my hall is severe hall. So 00:29:17.259 --> 00:29:19.539 I'm trying to learn more about them. And I kind 00:29:19.539 --> 00:29:22.319 of was afraid that this would be drudgery. I'm, 00:29:22.319 --> 00:29:23.980 I'm interested enough in the guy, but you know, 00:29:24.079 --> 00:29:25.720 history books are a mixed bag in that regard 00:29:25.720 --> 00:29:27.839 and it's, it's really well written. It's very 00:29:27.839 --> 00:29:29.819 fascinating. So it's, I've actually found it 00:29:29.819 --> 00:29:34.460 to be quite a page turner and it, it's just a, 00:29:34.460 --> 00:29:37.240 as a Tennessean reading about where our people 00:29:37.240 --> 00:29:39.740 came from, what they were like when they first 00:29:39.740 --> 00:29:41.900 came, how much courage, how much they endured 00:29:41.900 --> 00:29:47.000 is just really rewarding. Terry, we talked about 00:29:47.000 --> 00:29:50.059 it before we hit record, but Think our listeners 00:29:50.059 --> 00:29:52.220 will be profited by you giving a description 00:29:52.220 --> 00:29:55.059 of what they kept in their saddlebags Oh, yeah, 00:29:55.140 --> 00:29:57.460 sure. So so the early settlers when they came 00:29:57.460 --> 00:29:59.640 over the mountains there were no roads They had 00:29:59.640 --> 00:30:01.539 the only they could they could bring what they 00:30:01.539 --> 00:30:03.079 could carry and what they could basically put 00:30:03.079 --> 00:30:06.160 on one horse So in addition to their families 00:30:06.160 --> 00:30:09.059 who had to either walk or go on horseback They 00:30:09.059 --> 00:30:11.059 would bring along the food that they needed for 00:30:11.059 --> 00:30:14.119 the trip little bit of kitchen utensils and tools 00:30:14.119 --> 00:30:17.299 that they would need to build gun of course powder 00:30:17.299 --> 00:30:20.920 shot that that sort of thing and They would bring 00:30:20.920 --> 00:30:23.099 whatever books that they had and their libraries 00:30:23.099 --> 00:30:27.619 basically consisted of a Bible Isaac Watts's 00:30:27.619 --> 00:30:31.440 hymn book They would bring it like a like a reader 00:30:31.440 --> 00:30:34.660 or a spelling curriculum for kids To help them 00:30:34.660 --> 00:30:37.619 with the education of the young copy of Robinson 00:30:37.619 --> 00:30:41.789 Crusoe Fox's book of martyrs pilgrims progress 00:30:41.789 --> 00:30:47.990 and I feel like I'm forgetting one but Well that 00:30:47.990 --> 00:30:54.009 I mean that Say you've just described maybe the 00:30:54.009 --> 00:30:57.349 best like proto Educational curriculum I could 00:30:57.349 --> 00:31:01.289 imagine not just for settlers, but for humans 00:31:01.289 --> 00:31:02.809 Well, that's the kind of things that they were 00:31:02.809 --> 00:31:04.210 educating their children with and they would 00:31:04.210 --> 00:31:07.869 sit around the fire at night and read aloud so 00:31:08.089 --> 00:31:10.490 That was the education of the early American 00:31:10.490 --> 00:31:13.970 settler and according to this historian Almost 00:31:13.970 --> 00:31:16.750 all of them were able to read and write because 00:31:16.750 --> 00:31:18.670 they have some charters that were signed by everybody 00:31:18.670 --> 00:31:21.349 in town You know about 200 people and there might 00:31:21.349 --> 00:31:23.549 be one or two names that were signed like with 00:31:23.549 --> 00:31:26.289 X's Right that would be in lieu of a signature 00:31:26.289 --> 00:31:27.970 because they didn't know how to write so very 00:31:27.970 --> 00:31:30.910 few people were uneducated in the way that that 00:31:30.910 --> 00:31:34.329 sometimes the south and old people from olden 00:31:34.329 --> 00:31:36.369 times or it's just assumed they aren't as educated 00:31:36.369 --> 00:31:38.710 as we are but they probably had a higher literacy 00:31:38.710 --> 00:31:43.529 rate than moderns. Well, if you take the content 00:31:43.529 --> 00:31:46.910 of what they're consuming, I would take that 00:31:46.910 --> 00:31:50.450 over a lot of the modern curriculum we have foisted 00:31:50.450 --> 00:31:52.630 upon us today. Yeah. You know, it's funny though, 00:31:52.670 --> 00:31:54.769 because we don't read Robinson Crusoe, but we 00:31:54.769 --> 00:31:57.690 do Fox's Book of Martyrs, of course, the Bible. 00:31:58.130 --> 00:32:01.730 We sing hymns by Isaac Wast to this day. And 00:32:01.730 --> 00:32:03.930 we read Pilgrim's Progress. They just got done 00:32:03.930 --> 00:32:06.680 with that. You know, it's just funny. The things 00:32:06.680 --> 00:32:08.759 that have stood the test of time that Christians 00:32:08.759 --> 00:32:10.299 have always looked to and recognized, this is 00:32:10.299 --> 00:32:13.559 a great work. And it's full of truth, goodness, 00:32:13.720 --> 00:32:17.079 and beauty. Well done, kind of bringing it full 00:32:17.079 --> 00:32:20.799 circle. Yeah. And you also told me a fun fact 00:32:20.799 --> 00:32:24.309 about bison. Oh, yes. You want me to relate that 00:32:24.309 --> 00:32:26.130 one as well? Okay, so when they came over they 00:32:26.130 --> 00:32:29.190 they brought Some of the very early pioneers 00:32:29.190 --> 00:32:31.569 planted some fields, right? They're just so corn 00:32:31.569 --> 00:32:33.309 So when they got to the areas where they were 00:32:33.309 --> 00:32:35.150 going to settle there was some kind of corn growing 00:32:35.150 --> 00:32:37.309 They had a little bit of kind of pre seeded crops, 00:32:37.349 --> 00:32:39.329 but not not a ton. So they had to supplement 00:32:39.329 --> 00:32:42.289 their Their larders with whatever game they could 00:32:42.289 --> 00:32:46.710 trap and hunt And when they were in Carolina 00:32:46.710 --> 00:32:48.930 and Virginia, they were accustomed to shooting 00:32:48.930 --> 00:32:50.809 a lot of turkey and deer, which they liked pretty 00:32:50.809 --> 00:32:53.349 well. When they got into the valleys on the other 00:32:53.349 --> 00:32:55.450 side of the Allegheny Mountains, they found massive 00:32:55.450 --> 00:32:59.099 herds of buffalo. The North American bison that 00:32:59.099 --> 00:33:01.839 is and so they they shot some of those because 00:33:01.839 --> 00:33:03.980 those things had absolutely no fear of people 00:33:03.980 --> 00:33:06.180 So they could they could get pretty close to 00:33:06.180 --> 00:33:09.039 them probably not too close but a little bit 00:33:09.039 --> 00:33:11.279 close and they they shot those and they hit when 00:33:11.279 --> 00:33:14.599 they had sampled the The buffalo meat they said 00:33:14.599 --> 00:33:16.579 that they basically lost their taste for every 00:33:16.579 --> 00:33:18.960 other kind of meat because it was just so good 00:33:18.960 --> 00:33:20.920 They're like, all right deer tonight because 00:33:20.920 --> 00:33:22.519 we're out of Buffalo, but I'll get another one 00:33:22.519 --> 00:33:25.670 tomorrow. Don't worry everyone and just FYI The 00:33:25.670 --> 00:33:27.849 reason I like that is because we raised bison 00:33:27.849 --> 00:33:31.369 here in Cookville, Tennessee. So that kind of 00:33:31.369 --> 00:33:35.769 tickled me when he exposed that fact. Well, I 00:33:35.769 --> 00:33:38.430 mean, I come from generations of beef farmers. 00:33:38.630 --> 00:33:42.029 I love beef. Bison's better. And I think that 00:33:42.029 --> 00:33:44.049 everybody who comes in contact with it kind of... 00:33:44.109 --> 00:33:47.710 to realize that we were took a group of buddies 00:33:47.710 --> 00:33:50.329 on a football road trip this week and we ended 00:33:50.329 --> 00:33:52.829 up at this country kind of meeting three restaurant 00:33:52.829 --> 00:33:55.230 and a bunch of guys were like give me the meeting 00:33:55.230 --> 00:33:57.049 three but a couple other guys who don't like 00:33:57.049 --> 00:33:58.710 that style of food like can I get a menu we're 00:33:58.710 --> 00:34:01.049 gonna get burgers and as everybody's eating a 00:34:01.049 --> 00:34:03.009 burger they really liked it sort of spontaneously 00:34:03.009 --> 00:34:05.289 developed like yeah, but have you had a bison 00:34:05.289 --> 00:34:10.469 burger? I mean Again, I love beef. I'm not coming 00:34:10.469 --> 00:34:14.690 at this objectively. Bison's incredible. I'm 00:34:14.690 --> 00:34:17.769 not surprised at all by that story. Yeah. Sadly, 00:34:18.050 --> 00:34:20.710 they nearly eradicated them from this area, but 00:34:20.710 --> 00:34:23.090 that's what Jason's doing the good work of restoring 00:34:23.090 --> 00:34:25.429 the North American bison to their natural habitat. 00:34:25.829 --> 00:34:29.150 We need him back. And my dinner table. Yes. You 00:34:29.150 --> 00:34:31.030 have to prepare it a little bit different, but 00:34:31.030 --> 00:34:33.789 fun facts that it has less fat than chicken or 00:34:33.789 --> 00:34:37.820 salmon. It has higher mineral and vitamin content 00:34:37.820 --> 00:34:41.699 than beef. It has more omega -3 fatty acids and 00:34:41.699 --> 00:34:44.480 all that stuff. It's delicious. What's the best 00:34:44.480 --> 00:34:47.500 cut? Is it similar to a fillet still the best 00:34:47.500 --> 00:34:50.539 or sirloin? I think the ribeye. I would argue 00:34:50.539 --> 00:34:53.099 that the ribeye. It's just because it's such 00:34:53.099 --> 00:34:56.000 a leaner animal and the ribeye still contains 00:34:56.000 --> 00:35:00.679 some of that fat. If you cook a ribeye from bison 00:35:00.679 --> 00:35:04.009 correctly, you can cut it with a fork. It's, 00:35:04.009 --> 00:35:07.329 it's so good. So good. So the book specifically 00:35:07.329 --> 00:35:09.650 mentioned that they, a lot of Buffalo tongue, 00:35:10.289 --> 00:35:12.210 a lot of people, we, we sell a lot of Buffalo 00:35:12.210 --> 00:35:14.730 tongue. Yeah. I've, I've had cow time at beef 00:35:14.730 --> 00:35:17.510 tongue and it was fine. I liked it pretty well, 00:35:17.610 --> 00:35:20.130 especially in the Hispanic community. They, they 00:35:20.130 --> 00:35:22.530 love tongue. They cook a lot of dishes with tongue. 00:35:22.530 --> 00:35:25.250 What about organ meat? Do you, we do. We sell 00:35:25.250 --> 00:35:30.619 liver. We sell heart. I'm starting to get requests 00:35:30.619 --> 00:35:32.440 for a lot of the different tallows and things. 00:35:32.780 --> 00:35:35.679 So, okay. I mean, again, just to come back to 00:35:35.679 --> 00:35:39.420 sort of the theme of, um, God's goodness and 00:35:39.420 --> 00:35:42.260 his creation. You think about what a gift this 00:35:42.260 --> 00:35:44.699 continent was to our people. You, you had the 00:35:44.699 --> 00:35:47.440 American chestnut everywhere and you had bison 00:35:47.440 --> 00:35:51.440 just walking around. Um, and I mean, I don't 00:35:51.440 --> 00:35:53.300 know. In addition to the other things that we're 00:35:53.300 --> 00:35:55.440 more accustomed to, right? Like deer, white tail 00:35:55.440 --> 00:36:00.800 deer. Turkey, other game animals. What a gift. 00:36:01.059 --> 00:36:03.480 I've often speculated that maybe ingratitude 00:36:03.480 --> 00:36:06.880 is the fundamental American sin. Maybe so. Because 00:36:06.880 --> 00:36:12.599 you just cannot categorize or quantify what a 00:36:12.599 --> 00:36:16.099 gift this continent is. The book records that 00:36:16.099 --> 00:36:18.280 the early settlers, it talks about Daniel Boone, 00:36:18.360 --> 00:36:19.920 who's one of the earliest ones who came over 00:36:19.920 --> 00:36:22.019 and kind of charted the way. James Robertson 00:36:22.019 --> 00:36:24.300 is also prominently featured in the book, which 00:36:24.300 --> 00:36:26.960 if you're from Nashville, you will notice that 00:36:26.960 --> 00:36:29.019 name because there's James Robertson Parkway. 00:36:29.420 --> 00:36:31.659 And I think Nashville still has what I assume 00:36:31.659 --> 00:36:34.880 is a reproduction of his log home that he settled 00:36:34.880 --> 00:36:36.739 there when it was still French Lick before it 00:36:36.739 --> 00:36:41.389 was called Nashville. And he knew General Donaldson, 00:36:41.630 --> 00:36:43.550 father of Rachel Donaldson, who became Andrew 00:36:43.550 --> 00:36:47.079 Jackson's wife. So there's a lot of intermixing, 00:36:47.139 --> 00:36:48.699 but when they first came over and they crossed 00:36:48.699 --> 00:36:51.059 the mountains, it says pretty much universally, 00:36:51.119 --> 00:36:53.059 everybody looked down into the valley. That's 00:36:53.059 --> 00:36:54.900 where kind of where like Knoxville region is 00:36:54.900 --> 00:36:57.800 now. They were like, this is Eden. This is paradise. 00:36:58.340 --> 00:37:00.059 And, you know, if you're from that area, you 00:37:00.059 --> 00:37:01.840 may be like, I don't know, it's, it's fine, but 00:37:01.840 --> 00:37:03.719 I don't know. And it may have been better back 00:37:03.719 --> 00:37:05.860 then, or it may be that it just was like, this 00:37:05.860 --> 00:37:07.980 has got the best climate. It's got everything 00:37:07.980 --> 00:37:10.239 that you need. The soil is better here than it 00:37:10.239 --> 00:37:12.409 is on the seaboard. which is where they were 00:37:12.409 --> 00:37:14.010 all coming from. They were all coming from mostly 00:37:14.010 --> 00:37:19.809 Virginia by way of North Carolina. And a group 00:37:19.809 --> 00:37:23.130 of 200 settlers moved over to Watauga near the 00:37:23.130 --> 00:37:26.289 river there and established a camp and did okay 00:37:26.289 --> 00:37:28.269 getting along with the Cherokee in the region 00:37:28.269 --> 00:37:30.889 for a while. And then their first big hiccup 00:37:30.889 --> 00:37:33.250 was when King George came along and said, you 00:37:33.250 --> 00:37:35.829 can't be over here because I decided not to. 00:37:36.250 --> 00:37:37.750 And it wasn't too many years after that that 00:37:37.750 --> 00:37:39.389 they decided that they didn't care for that. 00:37:41.559 --> 00:37:44.739 They have fisticuffs over it, one might say. 00:37:45.179 --> 00:37:46.659 Yeah, that sounds great. Jason, you reading anything 00:37:46.659 --> 00:37:51.159 right now? I just finished up the durable trades. 00:37:51.599 --> 00:37:56.239 Oh yeah. Yeah, so that was a fun read. Just getting 00:37:56.239 --> 00:37:58.400 all the stats on all the different jobs and getting 00:37:58.400 --> 00:38:02.360 perspectives on what do they entail and how many 00:38:02.360 --> 00:38:05.960 people take part in those careers. It's just 00:38:05.960 --> 00:38:08.940 a neat thing to know, neat thing to realize. 00:38:09.369 --> 00:38:11.389 Well for the younger guys out there that would 00:38:11.389 --> 00:38:13.989 be a pretty useful or even if even not like if 00:38:13.989 --> 00:38:17.789 you're just looking for a side gig You can the 00:38:17.789 --> 00:38:21.349 the book. It's by Rory groves. I believe it's 00:38:21.349 --> 00:38:24.110 called durable trades and he goes through trades 00:38:24.110 --> 00:38:26.010 that have historically stood the test of time 00:38:26.010 --> 00:38:29.030 and he rates them on if I'm not mistaken five 00:38:29.030 --> 00:38:32.630 criteria, so it's like historical stability resistance 00:38:32.630 --> 00:38:36.429 to like supply shocks How expensive it is to 00:38:36.429 --> 00:38:40.670 get started? Yeah Family center likely you can 00:38:40.670 --> 00:38:44.690 support a family like income potential and then 00:38:44.690 --> 00:38:46.349 you know, I think the first one was Shepherd 00:38:46.349 --> 00:38:48.250 It's like it's like the highest because it's 00:38:48.250 --> 00:38:49.849 you know, sheep are relatively cheap compared 00:38:49.849 --> 00:38:52.809 to cattle They are you know, they're less dangerous 00:38:52.809 --> 00:38:54.610 because they're not as heavy so a kid can be 00:38:54.610 --> 00:38:57.789 around them a little more easily You can you 00:38:57.789 --> 00:38:58.889 know, if you know what you're doing you can make 00:38:58.889 --> 00:39:00.650 money with it It's not you know, there's not 00:39:00.650 --> 00:39:02.889 a lot of equipment to buy and he kind of works 00:39:02.889 --> 00:39:06.269 his way through There's like a top 20 or 25 then 00:39:06.269 --> 00:39:08.269 he gives some shorter excerpts for some like 00:39:08.269 --> 00:39:11.420 lesser You know, like like lawyer is one of them. 00:39:11.420 --> 00:39:12.579 It's like, well, this has been around a long 00:39:12.579 --> 00:39:14.619 time The cost of entry is kind of high because 00:39:14.619 --> 00:39:17.480 you got to get education But it's it's worth 00:39:17.480 --> 00:39:18.800 it if that's something that you're interested 00:39:18.800 --> 00:39:20.760 in doing So if that's something where you're 00:39:20.760 --> 00:39:22.340 like, I kind of you know, I have some time or 00:39:22.340 --> 00:39:24.719 I have some energy I would like to supplement 00:39:24.719 --> 00:39:26.900 my family's income and maybe teach skills to 00:39:26.900 --> 00:39:29.139 my kids a trade something like that That might 00:39:29.139 --> 00:39:31.460 be really useful to them. Even if it's not something 00:39:31.460 --> 00:39:34.599 they do long term you can develop a lot of like 00:39:34.599 --> 00:39:37.920 human potential by teaching them how to be Had 00:39:37.920 --> 00:39:40.320 a husband to skill in a trade that might give 00:39:40.320 --> 00:39:43.300 you some good ideas For like what would be what 00:39:43.300 --> 00:39:44.619 would be something I could get into with zero 00:39:44.619 --> 00:39:46.679 experience. There's gonna be answers in there 00:39:46.679 --> 00:39:49.900 So I think we're a couple gears into a renewal 00:39:49.900 --> 00:39:52.360 of interest in the trades as an alternative to 00:39:52.360 --> 00:39:56.119 like college debt and Having to go to a company 00:39:56.119 --> 00:39:59.440 with a woke DEI department that's gonna use HR 00:39:59.440 --> 00:40:02.659 to scold you into conformity But you know if 00:40:02.659 --> 00:40:03.840 you're someone who's like, yeah, I've kind of 00:40:03.840 --> 00:40:05.219 felt that in the zeitgeist. I don't know where 00:40:05.219 --> 00:40:07.619 to start that's That's where I would say start. 00:40:09.260 --> 00:40:11.340 All the sort of career summaries you've been 00:40:11.340 --> 00:40:13.900 talking about are wonderful reads. But I think 00:40:13.900 --> 00:40:17.019 the two essays that open the book are worth the 00:40:17.019 --> 00:40:20.019 cost of purchase. So that's a great book to have 00:40:20.019 --> 00:40:23.539 in your library. It's very interesting. All right, 00:40:23.619 --> 00:40:26.500 well, I think we're going to wrap it up. So we'll 00:40:26.500 --> 00:40:29.019 catch you next time. Thanks, Jason. Yeah, thank 00:40:29.019 --> 00:40:51.219 you. I've lived in