WEBVTT

00:00:15.470 --> 00:00:17.949
Welcome to Fandom Shmandom, the fandom podcast

00:00:17.949 --> 00:00:21.170
that covers everything you love and more. I'm

00:00:21.170 --> 00:00:24.989
Sierra Obermark. And I'm Sam Williams. And a

00:00:24.989 --> 00:00:29.609
big, giant, welcome shmelcom to our expert on

00:00:29.609 --> 00:00:32.090
today's episode. It's Garrett Fielding, y'all.

00:00:32.130 --> 00:00:34.909
Welcome, Garrett. Hi, everyone. Thanks for having

00:00:34.909 --> 00:00:41.210
me back. Yay, welcome. Yes, excellent. Alrighty,

00:00:41.289 --> 00:00:44.869
then. So. Today, Garrett will be disseminating

00:00:44.869 --> 00:00:49.509
all of his wonderful information about the illustrious

00:00:49.509 --> 00:00:55.310
Darth Maul. Yes, Darth Maul. Garrett, what is

00:00:55.310 --> 00:00:59.429
your favorite moment from Maul's malevolent maliciousness?

00:00:59.770 --> 00:01:02.810
Well, this is a little bit of an overlap with

00:01:02.810 --> 00:01:06.349
the answer from the Obi -Wan episode, but Maul

00:01:06.349 --> 00:01:09.629
versus Qui -Gon and Obi -Wan is an excellent

00:01:09.629 --> 00:01:13.099
fight. That is, again, one of the best sword

00:01:13.099 --> 00:01:15.920
fights in all of cinema. I will die on that hill.

00:01:17.439 --> 00:01:21.180
As a viewer, as a small child, you know, in the

00:01:21.180 --> 00:01:23.799
9, 10, 11 -year -old range, the moment where

00:01:23.799 --> 00:01:27.379
Maul reveals himself in the Nebu Palace just

00:01:27.379 --> 00:01:30.200
before that fight, when he first activates the

00:01:30.200 --> 00:01:32.359
double -ended lightsaber for the first time.

00:01:32.700 --> 00:01:36.280
Oh, yes. That was a mind -blowing moment. Not

00:01:36.280 --> 00:01:39.159
only as, like, a child who had, like, who could

00:01:39.159 --> 00:01:41.120
have thought that there could be multiple blades?

00:01:41.219 --> 00:01:44.000
My God. But also, like, the audience reaction

00:01:44.000 --> 00:01:49.090
at the time was phenomenal. Amazing. And boom

00:01:49.090 --> 00:01:54.090
again. Second, second lightsaber comes out. Yeah,

00:01:54.129 --> 00:01:57.730
that's incredible. Yeah, I, I feel very similarly.

00:01:57.829 --> 00:01:59.989
Sierra, what is what is your favorite moment

00:01:59.989 --> 00:02:03.310
from Maul's illustrious career? Oh, man. I mean,

00:02:03.329 --> 00:02:06.989
I feel like that moment is just so iconic. And

00:02:06.989 --> 00:02:11.030
it's really where you kind of have this Oh, who

00:02:11.030 --> 00:02:14.770
are we dealing with here? What is going on? And

00:02:15.180 --> 00:02:17.319
Then that really sparks the, we want to know

00:02:17.319 --> 00:02:20.639
more about this guy. And then, you know, spoiler

00:02:20.639 --> 00:02:24.919
alert, he dies a few minutes later. Because up

00:02:24.919 --> 00:02:28.219
until then, he was just kind of a pest. Yeah.

00:02:28.280 --> 00:02:30.780
Right. He's just there. Yeah. He's trying to

00:02:30.780 --> 00:02:35.460
mow down a child in the desert. He's cloaked

00:02:35.460 --> 00:02:38.539
and brooding. And his lightsaber handle's too

00:02:38.539 --> 00:02:43.219
long. Because you don't know it's double -sided

00:02:43.219 --> 00:02:46.099
yet, so it's just like this giant silver handle,

00:02:46.199 --> 00:02:48.439
and you're like, why is that guy's handle so

00:02:48.439 --> 00:02:51.860
big? You know, I don't remember noticing that

00:02:51.860 --> 00:02:54.780
on first watch. Really? I don't think I did either.

00:02:55.219 --> 00:02:57.639
I remember as a kid in the theater being like,

00:02:57.800 --> 00:03:02.080
that's too big. Now, you know, looking at it

00:03:02.080 --> 00:03:05.840
on subsequent viewings, absolutely. Yeah, of

00:03:05.840 --> 00:03:09.289
course. You know, first time. I don't know that

00:03:09.289 --> 00:03:12.650
I was paying attention that closely. Excellent.

00:03:12.849 --> 00:03:16.490
Glad I'm the only one of world -renowned Sherlockian

00:03:16.490 --> 00:03:21.189
-ness. I will say, I do give an honorable mention

00:03:21.189 --> 00:03:27.689
to Ahsoka and Maul's fight in Clone Wars. So,

00:03:27.789 --> 00:03:30.909
what I was going to say is... I don't know that

00:03:30.909 --> 00:03:33.069
that's necessarily my favorite, though. It's

00:03:33.069 --> 00:03:36.289
so iconic, but I don't think it's my favorite

00:03:36.289 --> 00:03:43.909
Maul moment. Where my favorite Maul -ism comes

00:03:43.909 --> 00:03:49.389
in is when you really see what his plot on Mandalore

00:03:49.389 --> 00:03:56.659
was before the... Ahsoka bit with Order 66 and

00:03:56.659 --> 00:04:01.039
all of that. So when you can see him basically

00:04:01.039 --> 00:04:04.879
pulling a Palpatine and all right, I'm going

00:04:04.879 --> 00:04:07.620
to dangle you over here and I'm going to shoo

00:04:07.620 --> 00:04:10.020
you in this direction and then you are going

00:04:10.020 --> 00:04:13.360
to fight these people. And oh, look who's ruling.

00:04:14.270 --> 00:04:21.350
It's me! Oh, what have we here? What? Oh, oops!

00:04:21.610 --> 00:04:26.410
I think I have the crown. Exactly. So I feel

00:04:26.410 --> 00:04:31.329
like that is really where I go, okay, yes. You

00:04:31.329 --> 00:04:35.189
know, might there have been some judgment here

00:04:35.189 --> 00:04:38.350
and there about bringing him back and his plot

00:04:38.350 --> 00:04:41.569
up until this point? All of those things, I feel

00:04:41.569 --> 00:04:44.639
like by the time that his I mean, essentially

00:04:44.639 --> 00:04:49.399
genius is revealed during that plot line. I'm

00:04:49.399 --> 00:04:52.740
all in. I'm, I'm so all in. I'm going, okay,

00:04:52.839 --> 00:04:56.139
yes, he is a force to be reckoned with. He has

00:04:56.139 --> 00:04:59.439
some brains going on in there. He is not just,

00:04:59.459 --> 00:05:04.899
you know, this muscle that's sent in to be just

00:05:04.899 --> 00:05:09.620
this Sith assassin, essentially a version of

00:05:09.620 --> 00:05:14.110
an apprentice. Like he has, knowledge like he

00:05:14.110 --> 00:05:19.009
is very very intelligent so that's i think my

00:05:19.009 --> 00:05:21.870
favorite that's that's definitely my favorite

00:05:21.870 --> 00:05:24.870
moment of his is really realizing who you're

00:05:24.870 --> 00:05:29.129
really up against i there's a lot to like about

00:05:29.129 --> 00:05:32.610
what they do with maul after he stops being in

00:05:32.610 --> 00:05:35.230
spider -like form and and to me i think he's

00:05:35.230 --> 00:05:36.850
much more interesting as a solo character than

00:05:36.850 --> 00:05:38.970
when he's with savage even though he has some

00:05:38.970 --> 00:05:42.399
interesting moments of power and and sort of

00:05:42.399 --> 00:05:45.220
showing off like the the plague assiduous line

00:05:45.220 --> 00:05:47.819
of thinking certainly he's manipulative and and

00:05:47.819 --> 00:05:50.240
i think his ruling of the underworld that he

00:05:50.240 --> 00:05:52.879
gets to uh with the pikes being under his control

00:05:52.879 --> 00:05:55.459
and black sun etc is really effective and interesting

00:05:55.459 --> 00:05:59.079
i will say as much as i love the animation style

00:05:59.079 --> 00:06:01.879
of clone wars and especially when their budget

00:06:01.879 --> 00:06:04.980
is just like zipped up as much as possible for

00:06:04.980 --> 00:06:08.259
season seven and they capture all sorts of movement

00:06:08.259 --> 00:06:11.339
really well There is something about Ray Park's

00:06:11.339 --> 00:06:15.120
physicality that he brings to Maul that is irreplaceable

00:06:15.120 --> 00:06:19.100
to me. And I love all of this updating of the

00:06:19.100 --> 00:06:20.959
fact that he's not just muscle. He's not just

00:06:20.959 --> 00:06:22.920
Dave Bautista's character in that Bond movie

00:06:22.920 --> 00:06:25.860
he's in where he's just like silent and deadly.

00:06:26.459 --> 00:06:31.660
But Maul has intelligence with him, has conniving

00:06:31.660 --> 00:06:34.160
inside him. That's all really effective. He's

00:06:34.160 --> 00:06:37.850
a really expressive. character, despite having

00:06:37.850 --> 00:06:40.050
not a whole lot of lines in his introductory

00:06:40.050 --> 00:06:43.709
film. Yeah. And, and I know that there was quite

00:06:43.709 --> 00:06:46.509
a bit of disappointment in that original movie

00:06:46.509 --> 00:06:48.550
with a phantom menace and people thinking in

00:06:48.550 --> 00:06:52.949
the trailer, it's mall, not Palpatine, but he

00:06:52.949 --> 00:06:55.870
only has this one line. And then there's, he

00:06:55.870 --> 00:06:58.470
just brings this menace to it, but he's not actually

00:06:58.470 --> 00:07:03.389
the phantom. That's Palpy. So I, but Ray Park's

00:07:03.389 --> 00:07:07.569
physical. and the motion and the power behind

00:07:07.569 --> 00:07:10.670
the movements. I specifically am thinking about

00:07:10.670 --> 00:07:13.790
there's this one moment where he force grabs

00:07:13.790 --> 00:07:15.910
like some sort of box on the ground and throws

00:07:15.910 --> 00:07:18.490
it into an electrical panel. And that movement

00:07:18.490 --> 00:07:21.029
is so sharp and so defined, it's almost dancer

00:07:21.029 --> 00:07:24.250
-like. And there's just no capturing of that

00:07:24.250 --> 00:07:27.490
in the animation to me. So that's the reason

00:07:27.490 --> 00:07:31.410
why I think... Duel of Fates Maul beats out Clone

00:07:31.410 --> 00:07:34.370
Wars Maul, although there are so many great moments,

00:07:34.470 --> 00:07:38.069
as you pointed out, Sierra, of Maul's whole actual

00:07:38.069 --> 00:07:41.769
character coming out. Mm -hmm. Right. Maul sort

00:07:41.769 --> 00:07:45.410
of suffered from what I will call Boba Fett syndrome,

00:07:45.550 --> 00:07:48.730
in that this really cool character is introduced

00:07:48.730 --> 00:07:50.689
that people want to know more about, and his

00:07:50.689 --> 00:07:54.829
time is cut short very quickly. Very quickly.

00:07:55.050 --> 00:07:58.519
Mm -hmm. At least he didn't go out in a whimper

00:07:58.519 --> 00:08:02.079
like Boba does. Correct. Correct. Boba gets,

00:08:02.240 --> 00:08:06.420
he screams, and then is eaten alive, and then

00:08:06.420 --> 00:08:11.639
the Sarlacc burps. Yeah. Like, that is not, at

00:08:11.639 --> 00:08:13.920
least you and McGregor got to cut this guy in

00:08:13.920 --> 00:08:17.519
half. So if you haven't guessed, dear listeners,

00:08:17.639 --> 00:08:20.779
missioners, today's episode, we will be malevolently

00:08:20.779 --> 00:08:27.279
mumbling about Maul, Darth Maul. Well, folks,

00:08:27.439 --> 00:08:32.399
we officially have a Patreon. Woohoo! There will

00:08:32.399 --> 00:08:35.019
be a lot more added on there in the coming year.

00:08:35.120 --> 00:08:37.740
But for now, if you'd like to listen to our show

00:08:37.740 --> 00:08:41.879
ad -free and slash or before anyone else and

00:08:41.879 --> 00:08:46.500
be a special lucky baby ducky, you can pay 500

00:08:46.500 --> 00:08:51.149
pennies. A month, just 500 pennies, and you can

00:08:51.149 --> 00:08:54.490
support this little show. We would greatly appreciate

00:08:54.490 --> 00:08:59.789
it. Indeed. Without further ado, we will, as

00:08:59.789 --> 00:09:03.809
Roger Smith says, dive on in. We will begin with

00:09:03.809 --> 00:09:08.110
the when category. When are viewers introduced

00:09:08.110 --> 00:09:12.710
to Darth Maul, and how do our Schmisseners mainly

00:09:12.710 --> 00:09:17.940
know him? The merch. And the trailer of Phantom

00:09:17.940 --> 00:09:21.159
Menace is how, is how people first were introduced

00:09:21.159 --> 00:09:25.440
to him is, is just freaking out about who this

00:09:25.440 --> 00:09:30.070
so Sith coded, like red and yellow eyes. Red

00:09:30.070 --> 00:09:32.970
and black tattoos that you thought were maybe

00:09:32.970 --> 00:09:35.889
his actual, like, alien coloring. Little horned

00:09:35.889 --> 00:09:39.889
devil. Like, such an allusion to sort of Catholic

00:09:39.889 --> 00:09:43.190
paintings of devils in the Renaissance time.

00:09:43.389 --> 00:09:45.529
There could be no question that this guy is your

00:09:45.529 --> 00:09:47.970
ultimate bad guy. This is the Phantom Menace,

00:09:48.029 --> 00:09:51.009
Darth Maul. Then we actually got to know him

00:09:51.009 --> 00:09:54.830
in the movie. And while perception changed about

00:09:54.830 --> 00:09:59.840
him, this is... He still was a pretty bad -bottomed

00:09:59.840 --> 00:10:05.799
character, as I can say. Underutilized is what

00:10:05.799 --> 00:10:11.799
I'll go with. Yeah, certainly. So, he's apprenticed

00:10:11.799 --> 00:10:15.539
to Darth Sidious. He's tracking Qui -Gon Jinn

00:10:15.539 --> 00:10:21.399
and Obi -Wan and more Queen Amidala at this time,

00:10:21.480 --> 00:10:23.740
trying to get her to sign a treaty to start...

00:10:24.169 --> 00:10:27.370
all this war shenanigans so that Palpatine can

00:10:27.370 --> 00:10:31.649
take over and become emperor. And he seems to

00:10:31.649 --> 00:10:34.330
be completely in on everything and working very

00:10:34.330 --> 00:10:39.049
closely with his master and doesn't even have

00:10:39.049 --> 00:10:41.850
any qualms with what's happening. And also, as

00:10:41.850 --> 00:10:43.610
Sierra and I noted in our Phantom Menace podcast,

00:10:43.909 --> 00:10:47.690
he seems like he has amazing tracking abilities

00:10:47.690 --> 00:10:52.379
because if you remember Sierra. When we're discussing

00:10:52.379 --> 00:10:55.039
the Phantom Menace gear, I don't remember if

00:10:55.039 --> 00:10:59.299
you've noticed this or not. They get this transmission

00:10:59.299 --> 00:11:01.519
from Naboo saying, the people are starving, you

00:11:01.519 --> 00:11:04.120
must make contact with me. And then Obi -Wan

00:11:04.120 --> 00:11:05.220
and Qui -Gon are talking about it, and they're

00:11:05.220 --> 00:11:08.740
like, it seems like bait to have a connection

00:11:08.740 --> 00:11:10.460
tracing. Send no reply, send no transmission

00:11:10.460 --> 00:11:13.320
of any kind. And then, without any explanation,

00:11:13.679 --> 00:11:19.199
Maul's on Tatooine. Maul just shows up. There's

00:11:19.199 --> 00:11:21.580
no reason for him. They haven't replied. They've

00:11:21.580 --> 00:11:24.620
sent no transmission. No, it's like, you know,

00:11:24.639 --> 00:11:27.200
sometimes businesses will send out advertising

00:11:27.200 --> 00:11:29.200
emails and they can tell if you've opened it

00:11:29.200 --> 00:11:32.080
or not. Oh, I see. So they made a connection

00:11:32.080 --> 00:11:35.159
just because they opened it. That's what I'm

00:11:35.159 --> 00:11:40.399
going to go with. This is why you don't open

00:11:40.399 --> 00:11:44.240
spam email, kids. There you go. Yeah, I'm pretty

00:11:44.240 --> 00:11:46.220
sure they opened it on the ship and Maul went...

00:11:46.779 --> 00:11:53.639
Tatooine. It's been opened. Kenobi. He like pre

00:11:53.639 --> 00:11:55.919
-knows about his rivalry. They're just actually,

00:11:56.279 --> 00:11:58.720
they're a force dyad and we just don't know it.

00:12:01.059 --> 00:12:03.879
Yeah. Okay. So that, that's all that situation.

00:12:04.240 --> 00:12:08.679
On to the who category. Who is Maul? What defines

00:12:08.679 --> 00:12:12.460
him? What makes him tick? What's likable and

00:12:12.460 --> 00:12:14.460
dislikable about him? I'll tell you one thing.

00:12:14.909 --> 00:12:21.950
He is tenacious. He is defined by his just revenge

00:12:21.950 --> 00:12:29.710
mode with absolute no qualms. One track mind,

00:12:29.970 --> 00:12:34.429
he has this savagery, but also this genius behind

00:12:34.429 --> 00:12:40.230
him. And he has this, after Phantom Menace, once

00:12:40.230 --> 00:12:43.070
we get into Clone Wars, just this hatred of Obi

00:12:43.070 --> 00:12:46.940
-Wan, which... takes over everything, but makes

00:12:46.940 --> 00:12:51.519
him very, very, as you said, tenacious. He is

00:12:51.519 --> 00:12:56.580
so driven to get back at Obi -Wan for essentially

00:12:56.580 --> 00:13:01.120
killing him that he will stop at nothing and

00:13:01.120 --> 00:13:05.659
creates these very, very, very elaborate plots

00:13:05.659 --> 00:13:09.779
in order to get Obi -Wan to come and deal with

00:13:09.779 --> 00:13:13.799
him so that he can get his revenge. Honestly,

00:13:13.899 --> 00:13:18.460
they pretty much work. Except for season seven,

00:13:18.500 --> 00:13:21.519
where Ahsoka shows up and he goes, why are you

00:13:21.519 --> 00:13:27.419
here? Who are you? And why are you here? And

00:13:27.419 --> 00:13:30.700
where the heck is Obi -Wan? Where on earth is

00:13:30.700 --> 00:13:36.000
my little Obi -Bobi? I would characterize it

00:13:36.000 --> 00:13:40.500
as Maul is driven by lots of feelings. Yeah,

00:13:40.559 --> 00:13:44.970
I... feelings so many feelings he has a lot of

00:13:44.970 --> 00:13:47.370
feelings and now those feelings are like rage

00:13:47.370 --> 00:13:51.409
grief and like abandonment issues but yeah they

00:13:51.409 --> 00:13:55.490
are lots of feelings nonetheless he is he is

00:13:56.049 --> 00:13:59.090
Almost a didactic embodiment of what the dark

00:13:59.090 --> 00:14:03.190
side is. And at times so much so that he feels

00:14:03.190 --> 00:14:05.850
one dimensional. And I know that part of his

00:14:05.850 --> 00:14:07.309
character is just to be the villain off in the

00:14:07.309 --> 00:14:09.350
corner. And they're trying to develop different

00:14:09.350 --> 00:14:13.950
villains. Ventress and Dooku and Savage. uh palpatine

00:14:13.950 --> 00:14:16.210
and so there's an anakin being of like trying

00:14:16.210 --> 00:14:17.690
to make anakin be a villain but there are times

00:14:17.690 --> 00:14:20.429
in clone wars where he's a static character he's

00:14:20.429 --> 00:14:22.750
not dynamic and this comes back to play in rebels

00:14:22.750 --> 00:14:25.710
as well and so i feel that there are still moments

00:14:25.710 --> 00:14:28.049
where he's underutilized which is why i was so

00:14:28.049 --> 00:14:31.250
excited in solo when he pops up for a brief moment

00:14:31.250 --> 00:14:33.870
because i'm like oh man a whole different side

00:14:33.870 --> 00:14:36.129
where he's just in charge of the underworld that

00:14:36.129 --> 00:14:38.190
i'm excited about because i can get behind a

00:14:38.190 --> 00:14:39.889
lot of this other stuff that's very in line with

00:14:39.889 --> 00:14:43.090
his character but he can be a little one note

00:14:43.090 --> 00:14:47.889
i think to his detriment yes yeah so who is this

00:14:47.889 --> 00:14:50.129
guy maul comes from a planet called death amir

00:14:50.129 --> 00:14:53.350
and it's unclear as to exactly when he's picked

00:14:53.350 --> 00:14:56.529
up by palpatine to be his apprentice but he is

00:14:56.529 --> 00:14:58.610
his apprentice for a while there's an awesome

00:14:58.610 --> 00:15:01.129
little comic series that's canon about uh pre

00:15:01.929 --> 00:15:03.789
Pre -Phantom Menace, that explains a little bit

00:15:03.789 --> 00:15:06.049
of what their relationship is like, and Maul

00:15:06.049 --> 00:15:10.090
learning to trust and feel a sense of why there

00:15:10.090 --> 00:15:12.590
needs to be control and why there needs to be

00:15:12.590 --> 00:15:15.029
order. And that really follows his line through,

00:15:15.110 --> 00:15:17.649
too, of whatever situation he is in, he's like,

00:15:17.669 --> 00:15:19.690
there needs to be more control and more order,

00:15:19.730 --> 00:15:22.769
and it's got to be done by me. So he is, as we

00:15:22.769 --> 00:15:25.509
mentioned, the apprentice to Darth Sidious. He

00:15:25.509 --> 00:15:29.100
is the brother. of Savage Oppress, who shows

00:15:29.100 --> 00:15:33.659
up in Clone Wars. He is a part of a matriarchal

00:15:33.659 --> 00:15:36.139
society, so he doesn't actually rule if he had

00:15:36.139 --> 00:15:38.500
been left to his own devices on the planet of

00:15:38.500 --> 00:15:42.460
Dathomir. And he is Obi -Wan Kenobi's biggest

00:15:42.460 --> 00:15:45.580
annoyance, while he is Obi -Wan Kenobi's, in

00:15:45.580 --> 00:15:50.620
his mind, biggest rival. He's obsessed with revenge

00:15:50.620 --> 00:15:54.779
over Kenobi, which Sam Witwer definitely... shows

00:15:54.779 --> 00:15:57.240
off in his voice acting of the way that he shouts,

00:15:57.240 --> 00:16:05.159
Kenobi! Kenobi! It's great. It's much better

00:16:05.159 --> 00:16:08.440
than what Gare and I just did. And that's kind

00:16:08.440 --> 00:16:11.399
of what's going on. And what's cool here is he

00:16:11.399 --> 00:16:17.850
shows off a lot of this weird, dark side. force

00:16:17.850 --> 00:16:20.809
healing adjacent so we know with with ray and

00:16:20.809 --> 00:16:22.909
rise of skywalker force healing is a real thing

00:16:22.909 --> 00:16:25.990
it's been canonized you can take a little bit

00:16:25.990 --> 00:16:27.750
of your life essence and put in somebody else's

00:16:27.750 --> 00:16:29.610
so that they're healed cool awesome there's no

00:16:29.610 --> 00:16:31.149
problems with that whatsoever and we'll definitely

00:16:31.149 --> 00:16:34.509
never talk about it but there is this idea that

00:16:34.509 --> 00:16:39.490
was first in old eu uh with vader and how when

00:16:39.490 --> 00:16:43.350
vader would get extremely angry and extremely

00:16:43.350 --> 00:16:47.389
passionate that he would start to heal his body

00:16:47.389 --> 00:16:50.350
with the dark side. And then he would start to

00:16:50.350 --> 00:16:52.250
feel happy. And so everything would stop and

00:16:52.250 --> 00:16:56.529
go away. And we see that show up with Maul because

00:16:56.529 --> 00:16:59.789
he's also the guy that was cut in half. Like,

00:16:59.809 --> 00:17:01.529
if we're talking about who Maul is, what defines

00:17:01.529 --> 00:17:03.649
him, he was a man that was cut in half and survived.

00:17:04.750 --> 00:17:06.990
And the reason why we're given that he survives

00:17:06.990 --> 00:17:09.789
is that he's so full of rage and hatred for,

00:17:09.990 --> 00:17:18.140
say it with me now, Kenobi. That he survives

00:17:18.140 --> 00:17:20.980
this being split in half, cauterized. And like,

00:17:20.980 --> 00:17:22.480
there is some stuff to be said about the fact

00:17:22.480 --> 00:17:25.920
that he's not going to bleed out. Right. This

00:17:25.920 --> 00:17:29.839
is, all of this is, let's be clear, a retcon,

00:17:29.900 --> 00:17:33.319
right? None of this was intended after the, after

00:17:33.319 --> 00:17:36.380
episode one was released. Maul's survival was

00:17:36.380 --> 00:17:40.559
not intentional. The fan. reaction to this potentially

00:17:40.559 --> 00:17:44.220
really cool character is what drives the necessity

00:17:44.220 --> 00:17:47.240
to like bring this character back. Right. And

00:17:47.240 --> 00:17:50.839
we, you know, whether or not you're into like

00:17:50.839 --> 00:17:54.579
the reasoning of why he survives canonically

00:17:54.579 --> 00:17:57.880
doesn't really matter. The point is that this

00:17:57.880 --> 00:18:00.859
is like, this is a retcon that, that Lucasfilm

00:18:00.859 --> 00:18:02.740
at the time felt was necessary in order to like

00:18:02.740 --> 00:18:04.980
bring back a character to, to add to the repertoire.

00:18:05.400 --> 00:18:07.680
I'm, this is where I'm going to plant my flag.

00:18:08.160 --> 00:18:11.859
and say, Maul is an excellent character. What

00:18:11.859 --> 00:18:14.779
they do with Maul in The Clone Wars is fantastic.

00:18:15.200 --> 00:18:18.660
He's an excellent character. I don't like bringing

00:18:18.660 --> 00:18:23.779
people back from the dead. Okay, so I did this

00:18:23.779 --> 00:18:26.619
for my first hot take, my second hot take for

00:18:26.619 --> 00:18:30.650
TikTok, which was... I absolutely love what they

00:18:30.650 --> 00:18:33.589
do with Maul, but I absolutely hate the fact

00:18:33.589 --> 00:18:35.170
that they brought him back. This is something

00:18:35.170 --> 00:18:36.670
that you and I talk about all the time, Garrett,

00:18:36.750 --> 00:18:38.170
which is that death has to matter somewhere.

00:18:38.430 --> 00:18:42.369
Death has to be important. And this is, in my

00:18:42.369 --> 00:18:45.690
mind, this is one of the genesis moments of death

00:18:45.690 --> 00:18:48.529
has no meaning in Star Wars. I agree. That has

00:18:48.529 --> 00:18:52.029
no meaning in Star Wars. If it were the only

00:18:52.029 --> 00:18:54.309
example, if it were the only one, maybe we wouldn't

00:18:54.309 --> 00:18:57.029
be having this discussion. But it like spawns

00:18:57.029 --> 00:18:58.950
a bunch of other instances of this happening,

00:18:59.069 --> 00:19:02.049
which I think becomes a problem. Well, and it

00:19:02.049 --> 00:19:06.130
also leans into this. A lot of people in Star

00:19:06.130 --> 00:19:08.509
Wars have been stabbed by lightsabers in the

00:19:08.509 --> 00:19:11.210
Disney era and live to tell the tale. Versus

00:19:11.210 --> 00:19:13.869
Qui -Gon Jinn gets stabbed by a lightsaber and

00:19:13.869 --> 00:19:17.839
dies. And then... And Darth Maul gets cut in

00:19:17.839 --> 00:19:20.359
half and dies, but then is brought back because

00:19:20.359 --> 00:19:23.180
of merch and storytelling reasons. And I'm not

00:19:23.180 --> 00:19:26.980
trying to necessarily poop on that, but it is

00:19:26.980 --> 00:19:30.140
a thing that occurred. Like, this is driven by

00:19:30.140 --> 00:19:33.359
fan reactions and all the stuff that comes with

00:19:33.359 --> 00:19:35.640
fan reactions, fan love that leads to more money

00:19:35.640 --> 00:19:38.119
based off of the character. It also happens at

00:19:38.119 --> 00:19:40.400
the expense of Ventress, who basically disappears

00:19:40.400 --> 00:19:42.920
off the face of the planet in Clone Wars after

00:19:42.920 --> 00:19:46.859
Maul is introduced. And he takes her spot, and

00:19:46.859 --> 00:19:49.299
Savage and Maul take her spot quite a bit. And

00:19:49.299 --> 00:19:51.400
I'm a little disappointed because I'm a big Ventress

00:19:51.400 --> 00:19:55.299
defender. But the main point being, as you're

00:19:55.299 --> 00:19:56.759
saying, Garrett, is that death has to matter.

00:19:56.859 --> 00:19:59.200
And when death stops mattering, it becomes a

00:19:59.200 --> 00:20:02.920
giant problem. Because in all franchises, you

00:20:02.920 --> 00:20:05.759
and I go, well, okay, why is this person actually

00:20:05.759 --> 00:20:08.960
dead? Why can't they bring this person back?

00:20:09.380 --> 00:20:15.319
It's all about emotional weight. Yeah. I'm pretty

00:20:15.319 --> 00:20:18.200
much in line with where you guys are. Death has

00:20:18.200 --> 00:20:22.920
to matter. It bothers me that this is kind of

00:20:22.920 --> 00:20:26.920
the first one that really sparks a pattern of

00:20:26.920 --> 00:20:30.579
death not mattering. And we see this in other

00:20:30.579 --> 00:20:33.940
franchises. Star Wars is by no means the only

00:20:33.940 --> 00:20:39.319
one who has fallen prey to this. And while sometimes

00:20:39.319 --> 00:20:45.160
it works, I will give an out -of -universe example.

00:20:45.440 --> 00:20:48.680
I think Loki continuing to come back from the

00:20:48.680 --> 00:20:53.059
dead and continuing to not be dead works because

00:20:53.059 --> 00:20:56.960
it's Loki. It's because of who that character

00:20:56.960 --> 00:21:01.960
is and his whole disguising himself and always

00:21:01.960 --> 00:21:06.460
having a second plan and just him being a trickster,

00:21:06.599 --> 00:21:11.660
period, makes sense. Almost any other character,

00:21:12.140 --> 00:21:15.680
It does not make sense. And it bothers me because

00:21:15.680 --> 00:21:19.039
it's just because you don't want to let go of

00:21:19.039 --> 00:21:22.579
them. And if you don't want to let go of them,

00:21:22.660 --> 00:21:26.000
don't make them die. If you want to keep their

00:21:26.000 --> 00:21:28.119
story going, just keep their story going. You

00:21:28.119 --> 00:21:31.660
don't have to try to get some sort of an emotional

00:21:31.660 --> 00:21:34.940
reaction out of the fans or out of the other

00:21:34.940 --> 00:21:38.259
characters in the scene or whoever it might be

00:21:38.259 --> 00:21:41.470
and then go, oh, but they're fine. Because then

00:21:41.470 --> 00:21:45.049
that completely disregards all of the emotions

00:21:45.049 --> 00:21:46.750
that you just had. And then the next time that

00:21:46.750 --> 00:21:48.410
someone's in danger, I'm just going to go, they're

00:21:48.410 --> 00:21:51.990
fine. Yeah. I'm not going to care. So this is,

00:21:52.029 --> 00:21:55.769
I feel similarly about the way that you do about

00:21:55.769 --> 00:21:58.970
Loki as I do the Master and Doctor Who, who is

00:21:58.970 --> 00:22:01.029
never dead no matter what. But that's also built

00:22:01.029 --> 00:22:03.549
into that character. With Loki, the tricksterness

00:22:03.549 --> 00:22:05.250
is built in there. And also in Norse mythology.

00:22:06.079 --> 00:22:08.519
Loki is never dead. And also, there's a little

00:22:08.519 --> 00:22:10.319
bit to be said about, like, the fact that the

00:22:10.319 --> 00:22:13.220
Norse gods are held onto because of people's

00:22:13.220 --> 00:22:15.119
belief in them, so they can never actually die.

00:22:15.279 --> 00:22:17.880
Like, there's a whole bit of rigmarole and magic

00:22:17.880 --> 00:22:21.099
and, like, actual lore for Loki's character outside

00:22:21.099 --> 00:22:24.279
of Marvel. I will also say Jon Snow being brought

00:22:24.279 --> 00:22:26.500
back to life in Game of Thrones worked for me

00:22:26.500 --> 00:22:28.980
because of the established magic that had already

00:22:28.980 --> 00:22:32.920
been brought up with the Red Woman. What is her

00:22:32.920 --> 00:22:37.670
name? Yeah. Yeah, the Red Woman. Yeah. And so

00:22:37.670 --> 00:22:41.890
all of that was totally fine. It's this idea

00:22:41.890 --> 00:22:43.789
of retconning. And they did it with Boba Fett,

00:22:43.789 --> 00:22:46.390
too, to be fair. And when I was 10 years old,

00:22:46.430 --> 00:22:48.289
that didn't matter to me. I just wanted to read

00:22:48.289 --> 00:22:51.109
more books about Boba Fett. So the fact that

00:22:51.109 --> 00:22:53.069
he gets to punch out of the Sarlacc and come

00:22:53.069 --> 00:22:55.430
back to life because fans loved him rocked then.

00:22:56.400 --> 00:22:58.700
But there's still there's still something different

00:22:58.700 --> 00:23:00.660
about, OK, he gets swallowed alive and then he

00:23:00.660 --> 00:23:03.059
is still alive in there and he is a Mandalorian

00:23:03.059 --> 00:23:05.619
and he has tons of weaponry on him. So he he

00:23:05.619 --> 00:23:08.220
explodes the Sarlacc from inside and crawls out.

00:23:08.460 --> 00:23:12.420
OK, for whatever reason that I give that a little

00:23:12.420 --> 00:23:16.240
bit more grace. It feels more believable. Then

00:23:16.240 --> 00:23:19.539
I got cut in half and clearly died and then was

00:23:19.539 --> 00:23:21.960
brought back 12 years later because kids liked

00:23:21.960 --> 00:23:25.279
me. I'm curious how much of that reaction is

00:23:25.279 --> 00:23:28.059
because of like the mysticism element of the

00:23:28.059 --> 00:23:31.400
explanation of like, oh, well, he survived because

00:23:31.400 --> 00:23:34.299
of rage in the force, right? Like he willed himself

00:23:34.299 --> 00:23:36.259
to be alive versus Boba Fett, which is like a

00:23:36.259 --> 00:23:39.059
very utilitarian example of like, I have tools.

00:23:39.859 --> 00:23:42.599
My body is surrounded by a Swiss army knife.

00:23:43.019 --> 00:23:49.420
Yeah. A malfunctioning Swiss army knife, but

00:23:49.420 --> 00:23:52.349
a Swiss army knife. Well, to be fair. I also

00:23:52.349 --> 00:23:55.069
think I think it really just goes back to what

00:23:55.069 --> 00:23:57.410
you're saying is that it's a difference between

00:23:57.410 --> 00:24:02.970
established canonical reasoning. Yeah. And we

00:24:02.970 --> 00:24:05.230
feel like it. So we're going to write in a reason

00:24:05.230 --> 00:24:09.210
that does technically make sense, but we've never

00:24:09.210 --> 00:24:13.269
talked about it before. So I think that's really

00:24:13.269 --> 00:24:15.910
the difference. Now, all of that being said.

00:24:16.400 --> 00:24:20.480
I love Maul. That's true. I will totally agree.

00:24:20.680 --> 00:24:23.440
What they did with Maul afterward and the way

00:24:23.440 --> 00:24:25.680
they wrote him, he's an excellent character.

00:24:25.900 --> 00:24:29.640
Fantastic work. Yes. But there will always be

00:24:29.640 --> 00:24:32.680
this little quibble at the beginning of his story.

00:24:33.779 --> 00:24:37.980
So, Garrett, with all that being said about Maul

00:24:37.980 --> 00:24:40.099
coming back and that being annoying and death

00:24:40.099 --> 00:24:42.500
not being a real thing, et cetera, et cetera,

00:24:42.599 --> 00:24:46.230
and I will also split hairs here. Obi -Wan is

00:24:46.230 --> 00:24:48.309
dead. A force ghost is still dead, right? He

00:24:48.309 --> 00:24:52.470
can't do other stuff. So I don't want to hear

00:24:52.470 --> 00:24:53.910
from people who are like, yeah, but death has

00:24:53.910 --> 00:24:56.049
never mattered ever since Obi -Wan spoke to Luke

00:24:56.049 --> 00:24:58.069
in his brain during the shootout. I mean, no,

00:24:58.109 --> 00:25:01.910
no, no, that's totally different. So I will say

00:25:01.910 --> 00:25:04.269
now that it's established that death doesn't

00:25:04.269 --> 00:25:09.490
matter as much. I was super really down for a

00:25:09.490 --> 00:25:13.089
how do we find Ben Solo in the force and bring

00:25:13.089 --> 00:25:17.720
him back to life? I would have been especially,

00:25:18.339 --> 00:25:20.380
especially because of what they do in rebels,

00:25:20.440 --> 00:25:22.680
which I know neither of you have seen yet. So

00:25:22.680 --> 00:25:24.619
I'll, I'll keep this brief without spoiling much.

00:25:24.700 --> 00:25:28.539
They, there is a pathway, uh, between worlds

00:25:28.539 --> 00:25:32.539
as they call it. And that is, was sort of the

00:25:32.539 --> 00:25:34.859
plan on how to find Ben Solo to bring him back.

00:25:35.099 --> 00:25:39.339
And I'm, there's very, the, the best thing that

00:25:39.339 --> 00:25:41.720
they did in the sequels, in my opinion, was the

00:25:41.720 --> 00:25:44.619
relationship between Kylo and Ray. And if they're

00:25:44.619 --> 00:25:46.640
going to do more Ray, I think you've got to have

00:25:46.640 --> 00:25:49.619
some element of Kylo there. And so I was like,

00:25:49.700 --> 00:25:52.339
heck yes, let's go get Ben Solo. And then they're

00:25:52.339 --> 00:25:56.180
like, no, no, no. The movie was shot down because

00:25:56.180 --> 00:25:59.519
Disney execs didn't know how Ben Solo was alive.

00:26:00.519 --> 00:26:03.480
I'm not going to lie. This is another case of

00:26:03.480 --> 00:26:07.059
like, could it have been good to have more Kylo

00:26:07.059 --> 00:26:11.279
Ray story? Absolutely. Too late now. You painted

00:26:11.279 --> 00:26:15.269
yourself into a corner. Okay. I will accept it.

00:26:15.650 --> 00:26:18.589
I was super down for it because I love Adam Driver

00:26:18.589 --> 00:26:20.710
and I want more of that. That's true. And this

00:26:20.710 --> 00:26:24.109
is another perfect example. Kylo Ren's character

00:26:24.109 --> 00:26:26.329
is quite interesting. There are a lot of things

00:26:26.329 --> 00:26:28.809
you can do there. Adam Driver is an excellent

00:26:28.809 --> 00:26:31.430
actor. He does that character very well. I would

00:26:31.430 --> 00:26:34.670
want more Kylo Ren content. The problem is this

00:26:34.670 --> 00:26:38.009
is what happens when you write something without

00:26:38.009 --> 00:26:42.140
thinking all the way through. But OK, so it's

00:26:42.140 --> 00:26:43.619
a little bit hard to have this conversation without

00:26:43.619 --> 00:26:46.759
having seen Rebels because they there is a character

00:26:46.759 --> 00:26:50.099
that is saved by going through the world between

00:26:50.099 --> 00:26:54.059
the worlds. And it has to do with a timing element

00:26:54.059 --> 00:26:58.039
of it. So they could have essentially saved him

00:26:58.039 --> 00:27:00.079
before he died. I know. Which I think is how

00:27:00.079 --> 00:27:03.200
they were going to do that. I get it. But OK,

00:27:03.420 --> 00:27:08.130
so this is my other problem is. Time travel does

00:27:08.130 --> 00:27:12.289
not excuse death either. Like bringing someone

00:27:12.289 --> 00:27:14.869
back for the sake of it is bad, but also using

00:27:14.869 --> 00:27:17.589
time travel as like a, no, we didn't, we didn't

00:27:17.589 --> 00:27:20.309
get, we saved him ahead of time. That is not,

00:27:20.309 --> 00:27:23.650
that is not any better. All right. I will, I

00:27:23.650 --> 00:27:27.549
will cop to that. Unless, unless the point of

00:27:27.549 --> 00:27:33.069
the thing is time travel. Yes. That is a hundred

00:27:33.069 --> 00:27:35.930
percent my opinion on time travel. If the point

00:27:35.930 --> 00:27:41.119
of, what it is is time travel yeah i accept time

00:27:41.119 --> 00:27:44.680
travel if you are using time travel as a tool

00:27:44.680 --> 00:27:48.640
within your existing story to do things or fix

00:27:48.640 --> 00:27:52.400
things that you went whoopsie on no yeah when

00:27:52.400 --> 00:27:56.279
so garrett and i saw we didn't see an end game

00:27:56.279 --> 00:27:59.900
together but we saw on the same night and i remember

00:27:59.900 --> 00:28:01.720
sitting down in the theater and as soon as it

00:28:01.720 --> 00:28:04.180
became a time travel movie i went ah garrett

00:28:04.509 --> 00:28:09.670
He's with me. We both kind of hate this. And

00:28:09.670 --> 00:28:12.230
it's so funny because Prisoner of Azkaban is

00:28:12.230 --> 00:28:14.730
objectively my favorite is what I think is the

00:28:14.730 --> 00:28:17.130
objective best Harry Potter book. And that is

00:28:17.130 --> 00:28:19.589
a time travel book. The entire point of that

00:28:19.589 --> 00:28:22.789
book is built around time travel. And then Roland

00:28:22.789 --> 00:28:26.009
goes, which is why it works. Oh, shoot. And had

00:28:26.009 --> 00:28:30.799
to just get rid of it. Yeah. Now I have painted

00:28:30.799 --> 00:28:34.160
myself into a corner of using time travel. Which

00:28:34.160 --> 00:28:37.819
is why how it should have ended is so funny of

00:28:37.819 --> 00:28:41.720
Snape just turning it 8 ,730 ,000 times to go

00:28:41.720 --> 00:28:43.559
back and kill Voldemort when he's meeting with

00:28:43.559 --> 00:28:48.599
Dumbledore. Yeah. Anyways. Moving to the what

00:28:48.599 --> 00:28:53.759
category. What extra material exists about Maul

00:28:53.759 --> 00:28:59.519
outside of the prequel trilogy? We will include

00:28:59.519 --> 00:29:04.220
Clone Wars in that section. And what does that

00:29:04.220 --> 00:29:07.960
material do to shape our understanding of who

00:29:07.960 --> 00:29:11.059
Maul is? Garrett, is there... I don't remember

00:29:11.059 --> 00:29:15.319
much Maul stuff in the old EU. It's not a lot.

00:29:15.400 --> 00:29:18.700
There is a little bit. It's not a lot. So Maul,

00:29:18.799 --> 00:29:21.900
as with so many prequel characters, doesn't get

00:29:21.900 --> 00:29:25.819
a whole lot of EU content because the transition...

00:29:26.240 --> 00:29:29.339
from Lucasfilm to Disney happens relatively shortly

00:29:29.339 --> 00:29:33.640
after their introduction as characters. So there's

00:29:33.640 --> 00:29:36.279
not a whole lot. He does make appearances in

00:29:36.279 --> 00:29:40.539
the book Plagueis. Oh, yeah. He does make an

00:29:40.539 --> 00:29:44.059
appearance in Cloak of Deception. He does make

00:29:44.059 --> 00:29:46.319
an appearance in Darth Maul Saboteur, which is

00:29:46.319 --> 00:29:51.079
like a short story. There's Darth Maul Shadowhunter.

00:29:51.960 --> 00:29:55.779
There are a couple of these books, but... It's

00:29:55.779 --> 00:29:58.960
like, how would I say this? It's like Maul as

00:29:58.960 --> 00:30:02.380
a character is much less fleshed out in the old

00:30:02.380 --> 00:30:06.920
EU than he is in the Clone Wars show. He's much

00:30:06.920 --> 00:30:10.259
less vocal. He's more of a like brooding passive

00:30:10.259 --> 00:30:14.660
assassin, silent assassin. He is definitely like

00:30:14.660 --> 00:30:18.910
the methodical patient. character that we see

00:30:18.910 --> 00:30:21.369
in portions of the Clone Wars where he's like

00:30:21.369 --> 00:30:23.750
setting up the takeover of Mandalore or like

00:30:23.750 --> 00:30:27.569
later on in in the lead up to Solo, you know,

00:30:27.589 --> 00:30:31.269
he goes through the whole syndicate arc. But

00:30:31.269 --> 00:30:34.309
in these books, he is portrayed very much as

00:30:34.309 --> 00:30:37.089
like a patient, methodical assassin operating

00:30:37.089 --> 00:30:39.609
sort of in the underworld a little bit. He like

00:30:39.609 --> 00:30:41.769
has these run ins with these syndicates like

00:30:41.769 --> 00:30:47.410
Black Sun and tears them apart. But. It's not

00:30:47.410 --> 00:30:51.730
a very fleshed -out character. The Legends novels

00:30:51.730 --> 00:30:55.210
portray Maul as competent and disciplined and

00:30:55.210 --> 00:30:58.410
ideologically committed to Darth Sidious' teachings,

00:30:58.609 --> 00:31:02.450
but he doesn't crack open as a character and

00:31:02.450 --> 00:31:06.890
have introspective moments the way that the canon

00:31:06.890 --> 00:31:08.950
does. And by the canon, I'm including Clone Wars

00:31:08.950 --> 00:31:10.789
in this, even though the beginning of Clone Wars

00:31:10.789 --> 00:31:15.170
is technically the Lucasfilm era. It is part

00:31:15.170 --> 00:31:20.539
of canon. The most interesting material from

00:31:20.539 --> 00:31:23.460
the old EU is probably in Darth Plagueis, especially

00:31:23.460 --> 00:31:26.380
they treat him as like a philosophical object

00:31:26.380 --> 00:31:29.980
where like it's a question about identity and

00:31:29.980 --> 00:31:35.680
autonomy. But Maul doesn't engage with those

00:31:35.680 --> 00:31:40.170
questions himself. It is like the reader. in

00:31:40.170 --> 00:31:43.150
sort of a third -person perspective is engaging

00:31:43.150 --> 00:31:45.829
with these ideas. But Maul is still just this

00:31:45.829 --> 00:31:53.029
sort of automaton of Sidious, which is not the

00:31:53.029 --> 00:31:54.750
same depth of character that we get in canon.

00:31:55.069 --> 00:31:58.509
Right, right. Speaking of canon, there are two

00:31:58.509 --> 00:32:00.890
comic runs that I think should be on everybody's

00:32:00.890 --> 00:32:02.990
list if you're really excited about the Maul

00:32:02.990 --> 00:32:05.529
show and want some extra knowledge about what's

00:32:05.529 --> 00:32:08.269
going on with him. So there's... The first sort

00:32:08.269 --> 00:32:12.130
of comic run that's Son of Dathomir, that is

00:32:12.130 --> 00:32:16.369
about what happens in between when Plagueis kills

00:32:16.369 --> 00:32:21.309
Savage Opress and captures Maul and how Maul

00:32:21.309 --> 00:32:24.529
escapes and what he does by the time Ahsoka runs

00:32:24.529 --> 00:32:27.410
into him in Clone Wars Season 7. So it's an explanation

00:32:27.410 --> 00:32:30.539
of like, wait, you were just... captured and

00:32:30.539 --> 00:32:32.539
now you're back on mandalore like what happened

00:32:32.539 --> 00:32:34.539
so that that runs really good it happened in

00:32:34.539 --> 00:32:38.000
2014 it's it's a solid run and if you want to

00:32:38.000 --> 00:32:40.759
see more mandalorian armors that are in that

00:32:40.759 --> 00:32:43.960
black and red death emirian sort of outlining

00:32:43.960 --> 00:32:46.940
that is the artwork for you and then there's

00:32:46.940 --> 00:32:50.319
a more recent run which is uh darth maul black

00:32:50.319 --> 00:32:55.390
white and red which is the prequel series that

00:32:55.390 --> 00:32:57.089
i was mentioning where it's him sort of working

00:32:57.089 --> 00:32:59.750
with darcidious there's some really cool sithy

00:32:59.750 --> 00:33:02.910
things that happen in there so if you like the

00:33:02.910 --> 00:33:04.750
sith world and want to know more about the dark

00:33:04.750 --> 00:33:07.529
side without becoming an evil person that is

00:33:07.529 --> 00:33:11.369
the comic book run for you as well uh like i

00:33:11.369 --> 00:33:13.670
said it is not the path to the dark side itself

00:33:13.670 --> 00:33:16.730
it's not it's just the knowledge of the dark

00:33:16.730 --> 00:33:20.190
side so i suppose in this case i'm the star wars

00:33:20.190 --> 00:33:24.819
version of eve holding out an apple It's a red

00:33:24.819 --> 00:33:27.420
and black owl full with horns. It's really good,

00:33:27.480 --> 00:33:30.960
though. So the how category. How does this extra

00:33:30.960 --> 00:33:33.059
material change our perspective of the character?

00:33:33.339 --> 00:33:35.660
How does it inform the way we consume the material?

00:33:36.099 --> 00:33:41.140
We know him from now. I will say, first and foremost,

00:33:41.380 --> 00:33:44.839
there's all of this debate around whose idea

00:33:44.839 --> 00:33:49.799
it was to bring Maul back. Now, Filoni has been

00:33:49.799 --> 00:33:53.589
quoted. saying that it was Lucas's idea. There's

00:33:53.589 --> 00:33:57.849
been reporting that it was Filoni's idea. I will

00:33:57.849 --> 00:34:01.309
say, I think the fact that the old EU doesn't

00:34:01.309 --> 00:34:04.750
really go into this, into Maul so much, shows

00:34:04.750 --> 00:34:08.829
to me that this is more a drive by the Clone

00:34:08.829 --> 00:34:11.889
Wars team than it is by Lucas himself initially.

00:34:12.269 --> 00:34:15.539
That's my speculation. Yeah, it is speculation

00:34:15.539 --> 00:34:18.280
because we're never really going to know unless

00:34:18.280 --> 00:34:21.639
there's a big interview with the Clone Wars team.

00:34:22.860 --> 00:34:28.340
I will say, in terms of what does this extra

00:34:28.340 --> 00:34:32.300
content bring to the character, I would say that

00:34:32.300 --> 00:34:36.980
Legends Maul sets up the aesthetic of what Maul

00:34:36.980 --> 00:34:39.659
is supposed to be. It's up this cool aesthetic

00:34:39.659 --> 00:34:43.239
of this of this character who is like ruthless

00:34:43.239 --> 00:34:47.360
and calculating and efficient, but he's a lesser

00:34:47.360 --> 00:34:51.599
character. Canon takes the bones of what legends

00:34:51.599 --> 00:34:56.039
established established and build something that

00:34:56.039 --> 00:34:58.960
is far more of a human character out of out of

00:34:58.960 --> 00:35:02.460
that base material. Yeah, I think in terms of

00:35:02.460 --> 00:35:07.159
extra material. Being anything except for Phantom,

00:35:07.380 --> 00:35:11.860
it really just fleshes out this character that

00:35:11.860 --> 00:35:15.679
we wanted to know more about. He was cut short

00:35:15.679 --> 00:35:19.400
after one movie. We thought he was going to be

00:35:19.400 --> 00:35:21.400
so important to the whole plot. Quite literally

00:35:21.400 --> 00:35:27.559
cut short. Exactly. Quite literally. And this

00:35:27.559 --> 00:35:29.820
changes really everything because he goes from

00:35:29.820 --> 00:35:34.559
just this iconic visual of... What he looks like

00:35:34.559 --> 00:35:37.099
himself, we hadn't seen anybody who looked quite

00:35:37.099 --> 00:35:40.780
like him. And the double -bladed lightsaber,

00:35:40.880 --> 00:35:44.340
which in itself is iconic. But other than that,

00:35:44.360 --> 00:35:47.119
he was fairly one -dimensional throughout his

00:35:47.119 --> 00:35:50.719
first appearance. And them bringing him back

00:35:50.719 --> 00:35:56.719
in Clone Wars and then Rebels and Solo, all of

00:35:56.719 --> 00:36:01.369
those things, as well as any additional... comics

00:36:01.369 --> 00:36:04.210
and books, et cetera, that we've been getting,

00:36:04.349 --> 00:36:08.869
that really just turns him into this complex

00:36:08.869 --> 00:36:12.389
character who might not be as complex as others

00:36:12.389 --> 00:36:15.190
because he is very much focused in the dark side,

00:36:15.289 --> 00:36:19.269
which has a limited palette of emotions, I will

00:36:19.269 --> 00:36:23.210
say. But even through that, we see his intellectual

00:36:23.210 --> 00:36:30.039
genius. We see still his physical power and fighting

00:36:30.039 --> 00:36:33.860
ability and his revenge story, which is most

00:36:33.860 --> 00:36:37.579
of his plot, but also the cunning that it takes

00:36:37.579 --> 00:36:41.119
to actually get him there. And we get more of

00:36:41.119 --> 00:36:44.199
where he came from, which is not necessarily

00:36:44.199 --> 00:36:46.880
part of his story, but we still get that through

00:36:46.880 --> 00:36:51.440
Ventress and Savage and that whole subplot where

00:36:51.440 --> 00:36:54.900
we can see a little bit more of what his background

00:36:54.900 --> 00:36:57.539
probably was like before Sidious picked him up.

00:36:58.010 --> 00:37:03.349
And then we just get additional information about

00:37:03.349 --> 00:37:06.050
this character that we were all so excited about.

00:37:06.210 --> 00:37:09.429
And I think that it's just fascinating to see

00:37:09.429 --> 00:37:12.630
him really be fleshed out. And it's a big reason

00:37:12.630 --> 00:37:15.369
why I'm so excited about the new show. Yeah,

00:37:15.369 --> 00:37:18.400
I think the new show is one of the more... interested

00:37:18.400 --> 00:37:21.500
i've been in a in a concept before it comes out

00:37:21.500 --> 00:37:23.699
like i was interested in the acolyte i was super

00:37:23.699 --> 00:37:25.360
interested in the mandalorian that might be the

00:37:25.360 --> 00:37:27.440
only thing that that went above it because i

00:37:27.440 --> 00:37:29.440
was just i just love mandalorian stuff so much

00:37:29.440 --> 00:37:34.699
but maul because he's been so fleshed out especially

00:37:34.699 --> 00:37:36.980
towards the end of clone wars and then we've

00:37:36.980 --> 00:37:39.500
given a little hint as to what he's up to in

00:37:39.500 --> 00:37:42.539
between Clone Wars and then where he comes in

00:37:42.539 --> 00:37:46.019
in Rebels with Solo, I just am fascinated by

00:37:46.019 --> 00:37:50.980
his mind. He is a seductive personality. That's,

00:37:50.980 --> 00:37:52.900
I think, the main thing that makes him so cool

00:37:52.900 --> 00:37:55.079
in Rebels in particular when he runs into the

00:37:55.079 --> 00:37:59.380
main Jedi character, Ezra, is he is this seductive

00:37:59.380 --> 00:38:02.719
idea. And he brings the seduction of the dark

00:38:02.719 --> 00:38:04.880
side in with the luring of what he's talking

00:38:04.880 --> 00:38:08.079
about. Even for a second, Ahsoka is like, huh.

00:38:08.179 --> 00:38:13.579
She was almost in. Just watching that, sitting

00:38:13.579 --> 00:38:17.380
there going, is she really going to say yes right

00:38:17.380 --> 00:38:21.280
now? I know. Because it's so close. And the only

00:38:21.280 --> 00:38:25.300
thing that really brings her out is just her

00:38:25.300 --> 00:38:28.320
trust of Anakin, which unfortunately is completely

00:38:28.320 --> 00:38:33.900
misplaced in this instance. And so it's almost

00:38:33.900 --> 00:38:38.260
like the one thing that saves her from teaming

00:38:38.260 --> 00:38:42.559
up with Darth Maul. Which, side story, would

00:38:42.559 --> 00:38:47.639
have been very interesting. So cool. Please,

00:38:48.179 --> 00:38:52.119
I need an alternate universe where that happens.

00:38:52.280 --> 00:38:54.659
I have a massive amount of money on the fact

00:38:54.659 --> 00:38:56.699
that Ahsoka is going to show up in the Maul series

00:38:56.699 --> 00:38:58.860
at some point. I am sure she will. And that's

00:38:58.860 --> 00:39:00.940
a joke, I don't gamble, but I really think she'll

00:39:00.940 --> 00:39:04.179
show up. I think that she will, for sure. But

00:39:04.179 --> 00:39:07.280
it is just, it is very interesting because he

00:39:07.280 --> 00:39:11.980
is... So seductive in his portrayal of, well,

00:39:12.059 --> 00:39:14.519
yes, I mean, this might be the dark side, but

00:39:14.519 --> 00:39:18.340
also look at all these facts. And also look at

00:39:18.340 --> 00:39:20.559
kind of the situation at hand. And I'm telling

00:39:20.559 --> 00:39:23.599
you the truth about everything, which he is again,

00:39:23.780 --> 00:39:27.639
which is wild. It's so funny because Darth Sidious

00:39:27.639 --> 00:39:30.179
is the one with the most power. He's the one

00:39:30.179 --> 00:39:32.579
that convinces Anakin. And he's like the least

00:39:32.579 --> 00:39:36.420
convincing Sith Lord ever. Yeah. He's like, be

00:39:36.420 --> 00:39:39.880
evil. And Anakin's like, I guess I gotta. And

00:39:39.880 --> 00:39:42.659
everyone else, like Dooku is like, the problem

00:39:42.659 --> 00:39:44.659
with the Jedi is Yoda. And here are all these

00:39:44.659 --> 00:39:47.000
different other problems. And I, it's interesting

00:39:47.000 --> 00:39:49.199
because Dooku represents white collar Sith while

00:39:49.199 --> 00:39:51.960
Maul is representing blue collar Sith. And both

00:39:51.960 --> 00:39:56.300
of them are much better at it than, than all

00:39:56.300 --> 00:39:59.039
powerful. What a characterization. Is that not

00:39:59.039 --> 00:40:02.760
accurate? I mean, that is, that is a very interesting

00:40:02.760 --> 00:40:09.210
take. I can't argue with it. You can't, and I'll

00:40:09.210 --> 00:40:12.590
tell you why. Dooku is the richest person in

00:40:12.590 --> 00:40:15.550
the galaxy when he takes over, when he leaves

00:40:15.550 --> 00:40:17.949
the Jedi Order and goes back to his family. He

00:40:17.949 --> 00:40:20.670
becomes the richest person in the galaxy. That's

00:40:20.670 --> 00:40:22.630
why he has those exquisite pajamas that I will

00:40:22.630 --> 00:40:26.750
mention every time I can for Dooku. But he then

00:40:26.750 --> 00:40:29.639
has all of these, like... You know, I've been

00:40:29.639 --> 00:40:32.400
in governance and I know all of this. And he

00:40:32.400 --> 00:40:34.900
like acts like he's some sort of banker or lawyer,

00:40:35.099 --> 00:40:38.780
even like a crypto dude. Right. He comes across

00:40:38.780 --> 00:40:41.539
as sort of all of those different versions of

00:40:41.539 --> 00:40:44.380
why I'm giving you these reasons as to why the

00:40:44.380 --> 00:40:48.500
Republic is bad versus mall is like, do you hear

00:40:48.500 --> 00:40:52.760
the people sing? at the bottom here and that's

00:40:52.760 --> 00:40:55.079
why he's so able to ingratiate himself with the

00:40:55.079 --> 00:40:57.820
people who are fighting against the type of order

00:40:57.820 --> 00:41:01.300
that dooku wants so he they're just they're two

00:41:01.300 --> 00:41:03.079
sides of the same coin it really does feel like

00:41:03.079 --> 00:41:06.420
white collar blue collar sith that's great that's

00:41:06.420 --> 00:41:10.260
great love that take the last thing i'll say

00:41:10.260 --> 00:41:13.139
about this is all of if we're counting just phantom

00:41:13.139 --> 00:41:15.679
menace as his like main thing all of this is

00:41:15.679 --> 00:41:17.849
additive and i don't think With the exception

00:41:17.849 --> 00:41:20.530
of me, every time I think of Maul, I will also

00:41:20.530 --> 00:41:23.429
think of the Black Knight from Monty Python going,

00:41:23.550 --> 00:41:27.230
it's only a flesh wound. Like, the fact that

00:41:27.230 --> 00:41:28.849
I do have to think about that every time I think

00:41:28.849 --> 00:41:30.949
of Maul is a big downside. But everything else

00:41:30.949 --> 00:41:34.610
has been so additive. And the coolest bit of

00:41:34.610 --> 00:41:38.289
lore, I think, is that he was both the conqueror

00:41:38.289 --> 00:41:42.710
of Mandalore and also per one of their traditions.

00:41:43.960 --> 00:41:46.420
Was also the rightful rule of Mandalore because

00:41:46.420 --> 00:41:49.280
he holds the dark saber. Yeah. I think that's

00:41:49.280 --> 00:41:52.179
super legit. That's super cool. It is very interesting.

00:41:52.719 --> 00:41:55.840
Here's my heart. My hot take. The dark saber

00:41:55.840 --> 00:42:02.340
is not cool. You almost made me spit. Garrett.

00:42:05.219 --> 00:42:09.619
You can shut up with that. You can, you, all

00:42:09.619 --> 00:42:12.440
right. We are, look, I'm going to put out an

00:42:12.440 --> 00:42:13.920
advertisement right now. We are looking for a

00:42:13.920 --> 00:42:19.980
new expert. Not to say that a black lightsaber

00:42:19.980 --> 00:42:23.880
isn't a cool idea. I'm just saying the way that

00:42:23.880 --> 00:42:30.090
they did it as a flat blade is silly. Oh, you

00:42:30.090 --> 00:42:32.510
visually don't like the way it looks. Yeah, yeah.

00:42:32.570 --> 00:42:34.510
Not its importance to Mandalorian culture, not

00:42:34.510 --> 00:42:35.329
what it does in the Mandalorian. No, no, no,

00:42:35.329 --> 00:42:37.829
no, no, no. Oh, okay. No, no, no, no. Never mind.

00:42:37.909 --> 00:42:40.250
We're taking that out of the classifieds. We

00:42:40.250 --> 00:42:43.190
don't need another expert. Yeah, I'm with you

00:42:43.190 --> 00:42:47.110
on it is a funky -looking thing. It's not a cool

00:42:47.110 --> 00:42:49.869
lightsaber. You are an actual science person.

00:42:49.909 --> 00:42:52.070
Tell me why this wouldn't work. Well, it's not

00:42:52.070 --> 00:42:53.929
that it wouldn't work. It's just that, like,

00:42:53.989 --> 00:42:57.559
you now have an edged weapon. That you're fighting

00:42:57.559 --> 00:43:02.719
against what is essentially a baton in all of

00:43:02.719 --> 00:43:07.159
the other lightsabers. It's just... I've never

00:43:07.159 --> 00:43:09.699
heard lightsabers described. The lightsaber is...

00:43:09.699 --> 00:43:13.579
It's a light baton saber. It's actually not even

00:43:13.579 --> 00:43:15.960
a saber. It's a light stick. It's a baseball

00:43:15.960 --> 00:43:18.179
bat. I mean, it's a baseball bat. Anyone who

00:43:18.179 --> 00:43:20.440
has played The Force Unleashed knows that it's

00:43:20.440 --> 00:43:26.300
just a baseball bat. That... That is a great

00:43:26.300 --> 00:43:29.780
take. That is an excellent take. That's so funny.

00:43:30.000 --> 00:43:32.119
Yeah, it is a baseball bat. You're right. A baseball

00:43:32.119 --> 00:43:34.800
bat that can slice instantly. I don't like the

00:43:34.800 --> 00:43:37.599
edged blade, and I also think the hilt is...

00:43:37.599 --> 00:43:42.360
I'm all for the understated hilt every now and

00:43:42.360 --> 00:43:44.380
again. I don't think the hilt is very cool either.

00:43:44.780 --> 00:43:47.199
Okay. That I will agree. I don't know that I

00:43:47.199 --> 00:43:51.000
like the hilt that much. I don't mind the outline

00:43:51.000 --> 00:43:53.260
at all, especially in the Mandalorian show live

00:43:53.260 --> 00:43:55.800
action. I think they do a more interesting job

00:43:55.800 --> 00:43:59.300
with the way that it sounds. Sure. And the power

00:43:59.300 --> 00:44:00.960
that they give the feeling to it physically.

00:44:01.519 --> 00:44:05.039
Yeah. It does not feel that heavy or burdensome

00:44:05.039 --> 00:44:07.800
when Maul's holding it and fighting with it.

00:44:08.079 --> 00:44:11.320
Yeah. It's just aesthetic problems I have with

00:44:11.320 --> 00:44:14.099
it. That's all. That's fine. Starting in with

00:44:14.099 --> 00:44:17.280
the Darksaber's not cool was a hot way to tell

00:44:17.280 --> 00:44:20.579
us that you didn't like the way it looked. Sorry,

00:44:20.599 --> 00:44:22.519
I didn't, I don't know, it just didn't occur

00:44:22.519 --> 00:44:25.059
to me that there would be anything else connected

00:44:25.059 --> 00:44:34.480
to that. Okay. So, the where category, part one.

00:44:35.179 --> 00:44:39.599
Where does Maul fit in the fandom of Star Wars,

00:44:39.739 --> 00:44:43.300
and where does he fit in rank of importance?

00:44:44.500 --> 00:44:46.840
Now, for this question, I have to assume that

00:44:46.840 --> 00:44:50.090
we are including the Clone Wars. as part of this

00:44:50.090 --> 00:44:55.510
question. Yes. Maul is, I would say, not a critical

00:44:55.510 --> 00:44:57.489
character, but he's a very important character.

00:44:57.949 --> 00:45:04.309
His influence on galactic events, subtly, you

00:45:04.309 --> 00:45:08.070
know, underground, is pretty significant. And

00:45:08.070 --> 00:45:13.309
if you add on top of that the level of fan appreciation

00:45:13.309 --> 00:45:17.030
that he has as a character, there's no question

00:45:17.030 --> 00:45:20.820
to me that he's like, in the top portion of important

00:45:20.820 --> 00:45:24.500
characters. Now, is he, you know, Luke Hanleah

00:45:24.500 --> 00:45:27.000
important? Obi -Wan important? Anakin important?

00:45:27.239 --> 00:45:31.920
Certainly not. But he's not a pure side character.

00:45:32.380 --> 00:45:36.800
So I was writing out my thoughts on this and

00:45:36.800 --> 00:45:39.820
kind of half changed them partway through because

00:45:39.820 --> 00:45:44.239
I initially started out thinking in terms of

00:45:44.239 --> 00:45:48.550
importance to the overall plot. of Star Wars

00:45:48.550 --> 00:45:52.630
as a whole. I was under the impression that he's

00:45:52.630 --> 00:45:56.150
fairly low on the totem pole. Yes. Is he doing

00:45:56.150 --> 00:46:00.630
interesting things? Yes. However, because Clone

00:46:00.630 --> 00:46:06.570
Wars doesn't directly impact the other kind of

00:46:06.570 --> 00:46:10.050
sets of trilogies that we see. There's not a

00:46:10.050 --> 00:46:12.690
whole lot of a through line of what he's doing.

00:46:12.889 --> 00:46:15.130
However, as I was writing that, I was going,

00:46:15.230 --> 00:46:17.590
well, the one exception is that he kills Qui

00:46:17.590 --> 00:46:21.010
-Gon. I was just about to say. Which creates

00:46:21.010 --> 00:46:24.170
the butterfly effect of... Literally took the

00:46:24.170 --> 00:46:27.789
words out of my mouth, Sierra. Yes. Obi -Wan

00:46:27.789 --> 00:46:31.909
having to train Anakin, which you one could argue,

00:46:32.150 --> 00:46:35.550
and I think we kind of have, that... That is

00:46:35.550 --> 00:46:39.489
a big reason why Anakin becomes Darth Vader is

00:46:39.489 --> 00:46:42.849
because he is trained by someone who is not holding

00:46:42.849 --> 00:46:45.909
him accountable the way that Qui -Gon would have.

00:46:46.090 --> 00:46:49.030
Yeah, totally. And so by changing that dynamic,

00:46:49.429 --> 00:46:54.789
he actually impacts a great deal of the overall

00:46:54.789 --> 00:46:58.570
plot. Of Star Wars as a whole. We don't have

00:46:58.570 --> 00:47:01.409
Star Wars without Darth Maul. I mean, if we're

00:47:01.409 --> 00:47:04.110
talking about Star Wars as a whole, he creates

00:47:04.110 --> 00:47:08.110
a whole in Qui -Gon that creates the whole of

00:47:08.110 --> 00:47:11.369
Star Wars. Like, he is immensely impactful for

00:47:11.369 --> 00:47:18.269
that one moment. Shut up. The only thing, though,

00:47:18.369 --> 00:47:23.010
that does bump him back down is that it doesn't

00:47:23.010 --> 00:47:27.530
have to be him. Right. Other people could have

00:47:27.530 --> 00:47:30.949
fit that role and taken Qui -Gon out of the equation

00:47:30.949 --> 00:47:36.309
for the same situation to line up. He's not someone

00:47:36.309 --> 00:47:40.670
like a Yoda where there is one of him and he

00:47:40.670 --> 00:47:44.010
has a, to use a Liam Neeson, particular set of

00:47:44.010 --> 00:47:51.110
skills with which he needs to affect this one

00:47:51.110 --> 00:47:56.139
plot point. I would put him kind of firmly in

00:47:56.139 --> 00:47:59.880
the middle in terms of importance to the overall

00:47:59.880 --> 00:48:04.559
plot of Star Wars. Now, importance to fandom,

00:48:04.800 --> 00:48:10.880
importance to just fan experience, then I would

00:48:10.880 --> 00:48:14.599
start ranking him a lot higher. Because for a

00:48:14.599 --> 00:48:18.639
whole generation, he's kind of the first iconic

00:48:18.639 --> 00:48:23.000
character that a lot of people got. If they hadn't

00:48:23.000 --> 00:48:25.820
seen this, you know, if they saw the prequels

00:48:25.820 --> 00:48:29.320
first. Yeah. If they were too young maybe to

00:48:29.320 --> 00:48:34.480
have seen the original trilogy before the prequels

00:48:34.480 --> 00:48:37.179
came out. Right, right. He was a lot of people's

00:48:37.179 --> 00:48:40.340
introduction. Yeah. To what Sith are. I will

00:48:40.340 --> 00:48:42.559
say this. Gare and I will get to this point a

00:48:42.559 --> 00:48:47.019
lot more when we talk about Anakin. But there's

00:48:47.019 --> 00:48:50.510
a whole generation. Of kids who appreciate, you

00:48:50.510 --> 00:48:55.389
know, the Anakins, the the Darth Mauls, the Dooku's.

00:48:55.670 --> 00:48:59.510
And I think Maul represents a lot to kids of

00:48:59.510 --> 00:49:03.869
like to Gen Z and Gen Alpha of like, this is

00:49:03.869 --> 00:49:05.789
a guy willing to fight the system. He should

00:49:05.789 --> 00:49:08.510
be celebrated for that, even though he's going

00:49:08.510 --> 00:49:11.469
about it the wrong way. And so I think he's a

00:49:11.469 --> 00:49:15.610
lot more important to generations below ours

00:49:15.610 --> 00:49:18.119
in the millennials than I. I think a lot of people

00:49:18.119 --> 00:49:22.360
realize Darth Maul, among students of mine, is

00:49:22.360 --> 00:49:25.239
like S tier for them. He's like one of the most

00:49:25.239 --> 00:49:28.039
important characters in all of Star Wars. People

00:49:28.039 --> 00:49:31.079
who grew up on Rebels or on Clone Wars are like,

00:49:31.119 --> 00:49:34.400
this guy, why isn't he in the rest of it? Why

00:49:34.400 --> 00:49:37.079
does his fate end up the way it does in Rebels?

00:49:37.219 --> 00:49:41.019
They have so many questions about why he's gone,

00:49:41.159 --> 00:49:43.239
because they like him better than they like Luke.

00:49:43.690 --> 00:49:48.050
or Han, or Leia. Like, they just, he's so important

00:49:48.050 --> 00:49:50.349
to younger generations. And again, there's this

00:49:50.349 --> 00:49:52.989
idea of, like, they've grown up in an era, especially

00:49:52.989 --> 00:49:55.190
Americans, right? They've grown up in an era

00:49:55.190 --> 00:49:56.989
where everyone's talking about how bad the system

00:49:56.989 --> 00:49:58.949
is and it needs to change, and that they just

00:49:58.949 --> 00:50:01.090
want people who change the system. And he represents

00:50:01.090 --> 00:50:03.909
somebody who's willing to change the system at

00:50:03.909 --> 00:50:06.590
all costs, which, for whatever reason, is much

00:50:06.590 --> 00:50:09.849
greater appreciated in younger generations. And

00:50:09.849 --> 00:50:12.539
this is all, this is the Clone Wars doing. The

00:50:12.539 --> 00:50:14.940
only reason that we're having this discussion

00:50:14.940 --> 00:50:17.980
at all is because of the Clone Wars and by extension,

00:50:17.980 --> 00:50:21.800
Rebels. Yeah, totally. The where category part

00:50:21.800 --> 00:50:29.639
two. Where? Where does Star Wars take Maul now?

00:50:30.440 --> 00:50:40.409
To the moon! Take her to the moon! I did not

00:50:40.409 --> 00:50:42.610
expect you to say that. No, Sierra, you have

00:50:42.610 --> 00:50:44.349
an actual different thing that you wrote in here.

00:50:45.829 --> 00:50:48.789
I did. I did. And it's the real answer, which

00:50:48.789 --> 00:50:51.829
is Mall Shadow Lord. Yes, which came out today.

00:50:53.289 --> 00:50:56.150
On the day that this is coming into your ear

00:50:56.150 --> 00:50:58.409
balls for the first time. So hopefully you have

00:50:58.409 --> 00:51:02.730
a lot of mall content to get through. Yeah, the

00:51:02.730 --> 00:51:06.250
Mall Shadow Lord, which is this awesome bit of

00:51:06.250 --> 00:51:09.920
in between. Clone Wars and A New Hope, where

00:51:09.920 --> 00:51:12.460
we're learning a lot more about, as Sam Witwick

00:51:12.460 --> 00:51:15.199
says, we're learning about how Maul feels about

00:51:15.199 --> 00:51:18.579
Palpatine, how he feels about the Jedi, how he

00:51:18.579 --> 00:51:20.420
feels about the Republic falling, how he feels

00:51:20.420 --> 00:51:23.099
about the Empire being here. And as Garrett said,

00:51:23.320 --> 00:51:25.860
he's a passionate character. Everything that

00:51:25.860 --> 00:51:28.579
surrounds Maul is around his emotions. So the

00:51:28.579 --> 00:51:31.579
fact that we are having what is essentially an

00:51:31.579 --> 00:51:36.019
emotional dive into Maul, I could not be more

00:51:36.019 --> 00:51:41.019
excited for. Very excited. I am completely stoked

00:51:41.019 --> 00:51:44.940
for everything that we're going to get. Obviously,

00:51:44.940 --> 00:51:47.599
at the time of recording, we have not yet seen

00:51:47.599 --> 00:51:50.940
it. The only things that we know is the hints

00:51:50.940 --> 00:51:53.780
and the interviews that we've been getting and

00:51:53.780 --> 00:51:57.679
the little teasers and all of that. And every

00:51:57.679 --> 00:51:59.639
piece of content that comes out just makes me

00:51:59.639 --> 00:52:04.349
more and more excited, especially with Learning

00:52:04.349 --> 00:52:09.929
how he is surviving in this post -Republic, now

00:52:09.929 --> 00:52:13.730
Empire world. Because at the end of Clone Wars,

00:52:14.050 --> 00:52:18.510
he says he's got a plan. He has a plan because

00:52:18.510 --> 00:52:20.429
he knows what's happening. He knows what's coming.

00:52:20.550 --> 00:52:25.190
He has set himself up to, as I wrote down, because

00:52:25.190 --> 00:52:29.730
Maul knows what is coming. He knows Palpatine's

00:52:29.730 --> 00:52:33.090
plan. He has been informed of everything that

00:52:33.090 --> 00:52:36.929
this is all leading up to. And he says, I survived

00:52:36.929 --> 00:52:41.449
and I can thrive in the chaos that is to come.

00:52:41.710 --> 00:52:45.489
But we are getting hints from Sam Witwer that

00:52:45.489 --> 00:52:49.150
perhaps this chaos is not exactly what he was

00:52:49.150 --> 00:52:52.269
expecting. It's a little bit, maybe more than

00:52:52.269 --> 00:52:55.070
he bargained for, or perhaps he didn't get to

00:52:55.070 --> 00:52:58.429
fully enact. this plan to set himself up for

00:52:58.429 --> 00:53:02.429
success ahead of time. Maybe Ahsoka is the cause

00:53:02.429 --> 00:53:06.630
of the issues that he's having now because she

00:53:06.630 --> 00:53:09.829
showed up instead of Obi -Wan. We're not entirely

00:53:09.829 --> 00:53:13.769
sure where this is starting out, but it's going

00:53:13.769 --> 00:53:17.289
to be very interesting to dive in to this character

00:53:17.289 --> 00:53:23.170
now, knowing his plotting and knowing all of

00:53:23.170 --> 00:53:27.300
the ingenuity that he can already put forth in

00:53:27.300 --> 00:53:29.739
such a short amount of time and to really see

00:53:29.739 --> 00:53:32.880
what he's made out of this situation. So it's

00:53:32.880 --> 00:53:35.719
going to be very interesting. So in addition

00:53:35.719 --> 00:53:37.699
to the mall shadow Lord stuff, there's this rumor

00:53:37.699 --> 00:53:43.619
of this live action underworld TV show that Lucas

00:53:43.619 --> 00:53:48.280
pitched and it didn't come to fruition in back

00:53:48.280 --> 00:53:50.619
in the aughts. It was supposed to be this more,

00:53:50.619 --> 00:53:53.880
more adult, more dramatic, more gritty thing.

00:53:54.409 --> 00:53:57.530
And now, apparently, that is back in the works

00:53:57.530 --> 00:54:00.329
to a couple of different sources. So usually

00:54:00.329 --> 00:54:03.070
when you get two or three sources reporting on

00:54:03.070 --> 00:54:05.449
the same thing, it's fair to say that that's

00:54:05.449 --> 00:54:07.489
at least been talked about. It may not still

00:54:07.489 --> 00:54:10.110
happen, but hopefully it's actually in production.

00:54:10.329 --> 00:54:13.449
And I will say, if that's the case, I hope, first

00:54:13.449 --> 00:54:16.150
and foremost, that we're getting a lot of Kira

00:54:16.150 --> 00:54:20.210
Maul content. So I would love for Emilia Clarke.

00:54:20.510 --> 00:54:23.489
to be the head of this or one of the heads of

00:54:23.489 --> 00:54:26.690
this. And that sort of a physical combination

00:54:26.690 --> 00:54:30.329
of Sam Witwer and Ray Park to create a dynamic

00:54:30.329 --> 00:54:34.170
duo with Emilia Clarke. I think that show, which

00:54:34.170 --> 00:54:36.789
now exists in my head canon, would be fascinating.

00:54:37.389 --> 00:54:41.329
That would be fantastic. Yeah. I would love kind

00:54:41.329 --> 00:54:44.630
of any of that underworld content because we've

00:54:44.630 --> 00:54:47.510
gotten so many little bits and teasers about

00:54:47.510 --> 00:54:51.380
it throughout. just Star Wars in general, that

00:54:51.380 --> 00:54:56.019
really diving into what that all means and how

00:54:56.019 --> 00:54:58.880
that all functions in a world with and without

00:54:58.880 --> 00:55:03.440
Jedi would be fascinating. Yeah. I'm all for

00:55:03.440 --> 00:55:07.019
fleshing out the universe. Yeah. Garrett's the

00:55:07.019 --> 00:55:09.380
biggest proponent. Garrett's the biggest proponent

00:55:09.380 --> 00:55:11.400
of like, don't touch main characters, do side

00:55:11.400 --> 00:55:14.039
characters and old or super futuristic stories

00:55:14.039 --> 00:55:17.530
only. Yeah. I don't, I don't want to have any

00:55:17.530 --> 00:55:21.570
more Luke stories to go a thousand years forward

00:55:21.570 --> 00:55:24.150
or a thousand years backward. Don't go anywhere

00:55:24.150 --> 00:55:26.829
near where we've been. Just like, just move on,

00:55:26.849 --> 00:55:29.909
move away. So there's, there's so much other

00:55:29.909 --> 00:55:32.750
things you could do. And now I, I know this isn't

00:55:32.750 --> 00:55:35.570
necessarily mall, but end of Rogue One, were

00:55:35.570 --> 00:55:37.829
you okay with the Vader scene and, and juxtaposition

00:55:37.829 --> 00:55:40.530
that with end of Mando season two, were you okay

00:55:40.530 --> 00:55:42.949
with the Luke scene? Yeah. Yeah. They were both

00:55:42.949 --> 00:55:45.250
great. Okay. So it's okay to do that, but just

00:55:45.250 --> 00:55:48.309
not main stories. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm not saying

00:55:48.309 --> 00:55:49.809
that you can't have the characters involved at

00:55:49.809 --> 00:55:53.289
all, but like there seems to be this desire of

00:55:53.289 --> 00:55:57.090
like, we have to stick to the Skywalker saga.

00:55:57.210 --> 00:56:00.349
Like, no, no, the Skywalker saga. We've been

00:56:00.349 --> 00:56:02.530
there. We've done that. It's a nice little package.

00:56:02.730 --> 00:56:05.070
Let's just leave it where it is. It's also other

00:56:05.070 --> 00:56:08.489
people's stories. It's also kind of over. There's

00:56:08.489 --> 00:56:11.010
no bloodline of Skywalker left. Well, I mean,

00:56:11.010 --> 00:56:14.309
that's true. But as the sequel trilogy was coming

00:56:14.309 --> 00:56:16.570
out, there was a part of me that was like, how

00:56:16.570 --> 00:56:18.889
about we leave it alone and go do something else?

00:56:19.650 --> 00:56:25.989
Oh, man. If we ever get to do sequel era on this

00:56:25.989 --> 00:56:30.809
podcast, I'm not sure your friends will survive.

00:56:35.250 --> 00:56:37.449
Awesome. Well, we're all looking forward to Maul.

00:56:37.570 --> 00:56:40.670
Hopefully we're not cutting this out for social

00:56:40.670 --> 00:56:43.309
medias and then me giving a disappointed face

00:56:43.309 --> 00:56:47.269
and being like, it sucked! Gosh, I hope. I don't

00:56:47.269 --> 00:56:48.710
think it will. I don't think it will either,

00:56:48.769 --> 00:56:50.389
but who knows. I don't think there's a way. The

00:56:50.389 --> 00:56:52.530
writers have been great and they love this character

00:56:52.530 --> 00:56:57.849
and it just feels like it's really ready for

00:56:57.849 --> 00:57:03.099
gloriousness because of that. Yes. So. Today's

00:57:03.099 --> 00:57:05.320
public service announcement is a message from

00:57:05.320 --> 00:57:07.699
the Galactic Senate Bureau of Public Safety.

00:57:08.340 --> 00:57:11.809
Citizens of the Republic! Every year, thousands

00:57:11.809 --> 00:57:14.409
of beings are injured or killed in preventable

00:57:14.409 --> 00:57:17.809
lightsaber -related incidents. Not by Jedi, not

00:57:17.809 --> 00:57:21.750
by Sith, but by you. A lightsaber is not a tool.

00:57:21.889 --> 00:57:24.590
It is not a walking stick. It is not something

00:57:24.590 --> 00:57:26.909
to show your friends at a party on Coruscant.

00:57:27.030 --> 00:57:29.389
It is a weapon that can cut through blast doors,

00:57:29.550 --> 00:57:31.809
repulsor tanks, and the hull of a Venator -class

00:57:31.809 --> 00:57:35.079
star destroyer. If you find a lightsaber. Do

00:57:35.079 --> 00:57:38.239
not activate it. Do not hand it to a child. Do

00:57:38.239 --> 00:57:41.940
not attempt to just see what it feels like. Seventeen

00:57:41.940 --> 00:57:44.380
beings on Nar Shaddaa last cycle lost fingers

00:57:44.380 --> 00:57:48.059
in this way. One considerably lost more. The

00:57:48.059 --> 00:57:50.320
Force is not required to activate a lightsaber.

00:57:50.420 --> 00:57:53.699
Common sense, however, is. If you discover an

00:57:53.699 --> 00:57:56.420
unattended lightsaber, contact your local Jedi

00:57:56.420 --> 00:57:59.360
Chapter, Republic Garrison, or law enforcement

00:57:59.360 --> 00:58:02.480
immediately. This message is brought to you by

00:58:02.480 --> 00:58:04.219
the Galactic Senate Bureau of Public Safety,

00:58:04.400 --> 00:58:06.500
the Coruscant Emergency Medical Corps, and the

00:58:06.500 --> 00:58:08.480
families of those who just wanted to try it.

00:58:12.880 --> 00:58:18.300
And on that note, thank you very much, Garrett,

00:58:18.420 --> 00:58:23.420
for joining us here today to discuss double -bladed

00:58:23.420 --> 00:58:29.500
lightsaber man, Darth Maul. Double -bladed lightsaber

00:58:29.500 --> 00:58:35.929
man. lightsaberman oh gary that was always excellent

00:58:35.929 --> 00:58:37.389
to have you on thank you so much for coming on

00:58:37.389 --> 00:58:40.469
bud it's always nice yeah not a problem and thank

00:58:40.469 --> 00:58:43.530
you dear listener schmissners for listening to

00:58:43.530 --> 00:58:46.349
this episode of Fandom Shmandom if you'd like

00:58:46.349 --> 00:58:49.030
to discuss this episode or any other episode

00:58:49.030 --> 00:58:51.769
we've done please hit us up on our social media

00:58:51.769 --> 00:58:54.750
channels you can find us on tiktok and instagram

00:58:54.750 --> 00:58:58.190
at fandom shmandom pod Or you can head over

00:58:58.190 --> 00:59:03.630
to patreon .com slash CW slash fandom shmandon.

00:59:03.929 --> 00:59:06.550
Connect with us there. Please don't forget to

00:59:06.550 --> 00:59:08.210
rate and review us if you liked the episode.

00:59:08.369 --> 00:59:10.769
It really helps the algorithm place us in front

00:59:10.769 --> 00:59:13.989
of other like -minded shmissioners out there.

00:59:14.409 --> 00:59:17.829
With that, we're out, y 'all. Don't forget to

00:59:17.829 --> 00:59:21.389
tip your double -bladed lightsaberman. And fare

00:59:21.389 --> 00:59:26.010
thee well. Fandom Schmandom was created by Sam

00:59:26.010 --> 00:59:28.489
Williams and Sierra Obermark. The show is produced

00:59:28.489 --> 00:59:31.289
by Aurelia Lieb. The editor is Brittany Fisher.

00:59:31.489 --> 00:59:54.369
The music is by Jeremiah Alves. No, that's the

00:59:54.369 --> 00:59:59.530
great part. He accidentally left his earring

00:59:59.530 --> 01:00:02.309
in and that's why Maul canonically has an ear

01:00:02.309 --> 01:00:06.530
piercing. Clone Wars is special when they're...

01:00:06.530 --> 01:00:14.389
I'm so sorry. That was so aggressive. I'm so

01:00:14.389 --> 01:00:21.840
sorry. Snuck up on me. Anyways, I feel like because

01:00:21.840 --> 01:00:24.019
of the camera angle, I feel like I've been sneezed

01:00:24.019 --> 01:00:27.400
on. So I'm like trying to wipe my face. We're

01:00:27.400 --> 01:00:34.179
like 600 miles apart. So never mind. Yes. Hold

01:00:34.179 --> 01:00:36.340
on. Okay. I'm making sure I'm caught up. It lagged

01:00:36.340 --> 01:00:39.099
for a second. So I just got. Okay. That's why

01:00:39.099 --> 01:00:43.340
I wasn't responding. There was a moment. There

01:00:43.340 --> 01:00:45.920
was a moment indeed. Very well said, Sierra.

01:00:46.039 --> 01:00:48.039
We all liked it. We just didn't hear it until

01:00:48.039 --> 01:00:51.719
three seconds after you said it. So I know that

01:00:51.719 --> 01:00:53.900
could feel like harrowing with an audience, even

01:00:53.900 --> 01:00:56.159
as small as this one. You say something and then

01:00:56.159 --> 01:01:00.119
it's just... Well, I thought something was wrong

01:01:00.119 --> 01:01:02.719
because you were like intently staring. And I

01:01:02.719 --> 01:01:06.539
was like... Did everything crash? Well, because

01:01:06.539 --> 01:01:09.840
it made this like noise in my headphones. So

01:01:09.840 --> 01:01:14.289
I was like, oh man. Is Sierra okay? Or did St.

01:01:14.449 --> 01:01:22.570
Louis just get set on fire? It is useless to

01:01:22.570 --> 01:01:27.849
resist. Come with me, my son. We will rule the

01:01:27.849 --> 01:01:32.289
world. Search your feelings. It is true. So you

01:01:32.289 --> 01:01:35.829
have found a twin sister that... Garrett's just

01:01:35.829 --> 01:01:38.309
like, I am ignoring Sam as much as possible.

01:01:38.769 --> 01:01:39.829
Export audio.