WEBVTT

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Welcome to Fandom Shmandom, the fandom podcast

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that covers everything you love and more. I'm

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Sierra Obermark. And I'm Sam Williams. And I

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have an apology and our first retcon of the podcast,

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which is everything to do with the MVP conversation

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from our very last, not Bob's Burger episode,

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but our Stranger Things episode, where we...

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duly dubbed Robin and Will MVP, and then later

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realized that we'd already given Robin an MVP

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in season three. And that Will, I now will cede

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to you, Sierra, that Will should probably have

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solo MVP honors from episodes one through four

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of season five, our last episode. So you win.

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Will is now solo MVP. Well, we, I think, I think

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we did decide he would be solo MVP as long as

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Robin didn't die in these next three episodes.

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So doubly, we didn't, we didn't have to technically

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retcon. Well, great. So the retcon's gone. But

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now I'm also feeling like it probably just should

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have been Will. And also she didn't die, so that's

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helpful. Spoilers alert from here on forward.

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Oh my gosh, yes. Sorry, we should have maybe

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led with that. It's coming. It really is. It

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really is. Today's episode, we will be proficiently

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prattling about Stranger Things Season 5, Episodes

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5 through 7. Spoiler warning, we will be talking

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about everything to do with Stranger Things.

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That includes all four previous seasons, the

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play, and all of season five so far. And without

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further ado, we will, as Roger Smith says, dive

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all in. So keep your finger on the pause button

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and rewind that tape. It's... The prestige category.

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What did we notice on this watch through? Biggest

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reaction times, episode five. My biggest reaction

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in chronological order in this one was Mr. Clark.

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Yes. Hello. We were right. A, he deserves to

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be in the show more. And B, Sierra, you said

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he deserves to know everything. I hope they do

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that. And you were very right about that. Yes,

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yes. We were a little wrong on the circumstances

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of him coming into the group and being part of

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everything. I think we'd originally said that

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maybe he would be in danger and the group would

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come and save him and that's how he would come

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into everything. And so it's a little flipped

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because he gets drawn in specifically to save

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Dustin. But I honestly like this a lot better

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because just shows even more that he's just so

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ride or die for. His students, his favorite student,

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his little protege, go schnookums. He really,

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I hope that in his brain, a lot of this is just

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like, oh, well, this makes sense. This all makes

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sense a lot more now. I feel like I understand

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a lot more about what's been going on in my life

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for the last five years. So that's great. And

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also, yes, go schnookums. I had a big reaction.

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To Erica and Lucas coming up with two excellent

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and flawed plans. Just kind of the same as I

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did for the first four episodes when I was like,

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Mike and Nancy are like leading this plan brigade.

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And they just both come in with this like sibling

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energy. And, you know, they come up with some

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good plans. We got the demo getting re -alived.

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And we've got bringing in Mr. Clark, which are

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great. I will say this is the best line, I think,

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of the entire three. which was, you want to Dr.

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Frankenstein a dead demo? And we're not doing

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that category today. So I will just like check.

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That's it. Yes, I agree. I shall confirm. Dustin

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and Steve's fight. Just Dustin and Steve in general

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in these episodes. I feel like so much needed

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to come out. So much conversation needed to be

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had. And I don't think that it. happens without

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a fight. So yeah, it was pretty intense. And

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I I've seen since watching, I've seen some of

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the behind the scenes footage of them filming

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the actual fight and he just, they're going all

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out. Yeah. They're just going for it. And, um,

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the actor who plays Steve. Joe Keery. Thank you.

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Joe Keery was. saying just he was pretty impressed

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because every once in a while he'd just go yeah

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he just like goes all in i feel like that's dustin's

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actor gaten m i will say his last name is m i

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that's just him in the nutshell is that he's

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constantly willing to commit very much to what

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whatever the the moment or the bit or whatever

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it calls for he's he stands up for it and that's

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just So excellent. Especially because Joe Keery's

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acting of Steve is so consistent. That character

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is so solidly acted. And so Dustin's able to

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sort of swing in this season from funny and joyful

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to depressed in a way that it doesn't feel unnatural

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because of Joe Keery's very solid present in

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that moment. So what a great fight. It was really

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interesting to see them have that debate about.

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Did Eddie actually save anybody or not? Very

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a la what you and I were talking about. It's

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the same thing. I know the whole time I was,

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I was doing the meme. I was, I was like, this,

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this is, this is the conversation that we had

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because you were very much on Dustin's side because

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you're seeing things from Dustin's perspective.

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I think a little bit more. And then I was seeing

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things more from Steve's side of like, he kind

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of was needless. And. A little sad. I think it's

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somewhere. Because of that. It's not in the middle.

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I would say it leans more towards Steve's side.

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But there is that whole deal about like when

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you hurt the hive mind, you hurt the hive mind.

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And so like he is doing damage and causing a

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distraction. But I, you know, Steve eventually

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comes up and says like, no, he did save some

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people. And I felt like that they struck that

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middle ground there where Dustin realizes it

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is a little bit useless. And also there is some

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penance given to this did some good. Yeah. Yeah.

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Even if it was, you know, specifically to save

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Dustin or there was a specific amount of time

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that it delayed everything. Yeah. But yeah, I

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definitely, I like that they kind of come to

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that compromise. I'm really missing Eddie in

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this season, I will say. And that's not a shot

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at season five. I still think all the characters

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are great and it would have been very difficult

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to have. Eddie added in or like if they brought

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back Billy or any of this stuff, especially with

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the whole child line where you have to bring

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in Holly and, and Derek as new actual characters.

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But I, I just miss him so much. I just loved

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him. He was great. I will also say it's interesting

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to me. I care way more about Dustin and Steve's

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relationship than I did Nancy and Jonathan's

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this entire run, even with their big, we'll talk

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about their breakup scene later, but. I think

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that's a real indicative of like the problems

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with season four, where I would have told you,

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I think Nancy and Jonathan's place holds and

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their relationship holds this incredibly important

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place in the show in terms of teenage romance.

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you know, kind of riffing off of 1980s romance

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tropes and them having real life conversations

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just as much as Steve and Dustin's joyousness

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and friendship and quirkiness really held a strong

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place in the show. And then when they end up

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benching both, both buyers in the desert and

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Jonathan really doesn't have a storyline. And

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then they kind of create this relationship problem.

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They don't have anywhere else to go. And especially

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if you read the Nancy book, which I just finished

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Nancy and Robin's little murder mystery. set

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in Hawkins in between seasons four and five.

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Like they really do set up like Jonathan and

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Nancy have problems and there's no way out of

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it. But yeah, I was much more into Dustin and

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Steve's fight and the importance of them having

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words and coming to blows and then everything

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that that leads to. In terms of biggest reactions

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of episode five, I think Will breaking Vecna's

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leg. Ooh, yeah. Which is just like a visceral

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like, whoa, yes. I know. I was a little let down

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because I was just going, oh, yes, you're able

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to do it. Keep going. Come on. Do something else

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now. The end of some of these episodes with keep

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going was just like, hey, continue. Continue

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to do this thing. No, you're not doing this thing.

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So, Will, just a bit slow, like, boom, boom,

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boom, let's get all four limbs, let's get the

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eyes, and then he's dead. And I think Vecna puts

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up resistance in between, but that's more subtextual

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than textual. It was just really cool to see

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the leg break and be like, ah, Vecna's human.

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All right, he is actually human. That's kind

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of the whole point of this deal. I also, interesting

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note here, especially for our what's going on

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with eight conversation coming up, when... Vecna

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is being spoken through by Will. So Will has,

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has puppeteered the puppet master Vecna himself.

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And he's speaking, they give him this voice.

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That's like, it's much more like Will's now it's

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still Vecna's voice, but it's much more like

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Will's in the way that Will speaks. And it's

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a great acting performance. But also I think

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that when we talk about where Callie's accent

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has gone, just keep that in mind. And of course,

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big, big reaction to Dustin's. incredible like

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wrap up of episode five, giving that huge amount

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of anxiety of like, wait, I was wrong. Don't

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destroy it. If you destroy it, everyone will

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die. Holly will die. You will die. You know,

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there's just the screaming that Dustin is doing

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as he's racing up the stairs with his broken

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walkie talkie. And that's just, I had a big reaction

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and was immediately like, okay, next episode.

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Yeah. Not even a discussion. And then of course

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we get the great lines of Jonathan. holding nancy's

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gun and pushing it down and being like are you

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sure about this no and then shoots it anyways

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i also i know this is getting into episode six

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but on that topic it really cracks me up that

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dustin immediately knows that because something

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has happened he knows that nancy has shot it

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yeah Anything else has happened. Not that they

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threw something at it. Not that they figured

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out a way to turn it off or whatever, interfere

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with the signal. But literally, he's like, well,

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Nancy clearly shot it. That's not Jonathan. So

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funny. Let's be honest. No, I did like that part

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a lot. Speaking of episode six, I had a big reaction

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to 11, Superman 8, and Hop to Safety to avoid

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the void sucking that has just been created by

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Steve's. beamer going through the wall as the

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like matter the extreme matter the what is it

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called the exotic matter when the exotic matter

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sort of self heals after a little bit and maybe

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stops the wall it's all confusing anyways i did

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have a big reaction that because that's like

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we're seeing a lot of l's powers like that's

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like full force l avoiding the the vacuum of

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space getting everybody to safety taking out

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all the stuff being thrown at her, I was like,

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oh, hey, we get a bit of moment. I didn't realize

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I'd been craving a little bit more action like

00:12:20.710 --> 00:12:26.370
that. Yeah. Yeah, definitely. In a very fantastical,

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high -level science story, I feel like we don't

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get quite enough of it. Yeah. I also loved Dustin's

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moment of saying, it's not magic, it's science.

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Yes. Oh, great. It's not as dark magic, it's

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science. It's fantastic. And that's kind of been

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the whole point of the last couple seasons. If

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we start with the, it's magic in season one,

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and now it's all science. It's a really cool

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sort of meta moment for the story to reveal itself

00:12:58.330 --> 00:13:04.309
like that. Very interesting. I had just this

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wonderful reaction to Robin. Telling Lucas that

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they needed to turn the radio off and Lucas refusing

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to turn the radio off. He is. I think I'm going

00:13:20.860 --> 00:13:22.840
to say I'm going to say it right here. Lucas

00:13:22.840 --> 00:13:26.039
is becoming my favorite part of this show. Yeah,

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absolutely. It started. It started last season.

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Yeah. And definitely it's just he's just getting.

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and just consistent in his emotional beats throughout

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the episodes. And him just clinging to her, those

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kind of tears brimming in his eyes, the fear,

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them seeing the Demodogs closing in on them,

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and then just his faith that Max is coming. He

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knows it. Max is on the way. Max is coming. He's

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not going to turn that radio off. If he can do

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anything about it, he would rather die. Yeah.

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Than not let her escape. Yeah. And it's fantastic.

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They are, they're the best couple duo. Not, not

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even close. It's not even close. I mean, the

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season four finale of him holding her as she's

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like actively about to die, sealed that already

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for me. I just got chills again, thinking about

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Erica help. Erica, help! Oh my gosh, yeah. But

00:14:37.529 --> 00:14:41.970
that moment with Max and not turning it off,

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even as the demo dogs are... He knows they're

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coming. They're in the laundry room. It's just

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like, what amazing faith. And the fact that Robin

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is like, okay, and scared out of her mind. I

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really thought for a moment they were going to

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kill Robin off right there in order to save more

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time. And then I thought it was Elle who was

00:15:02.009 --> 00:15:04.519
doing the washing machine. Because I thought

00:15:04.519 --> 00:15:07.620
it was like a season three callback to turning

00:15:07.620 --> 00:15:12.419
on the car. Oh, no, I knew who it was. Yes. Well

00:15:12.419 --> 00:15:17.259
done. Well done. Yes. I, yes, I know. I knew

00:15:17.259 --> 00:15:23.840
who it was because Mrs. Wheeler. Yes. Amazing.

00:15:24.820 --> 00:15:28.860
Here's Lucas's name over the PA. Immediately.

00:15:29.419 --> 00:15:33.909
I know them. I know these demos are bad. I know

00:15:33.909 --> 00:15:36.809
these lights flickering. Yes, I know these lights

00:15:36.809 --> 00:15:38.789
flickering. I know exactly what is going on and

00:15:38.789 --> 00:15:42.850
I am going to save whoever I can. Let's go. And

00:15:42.850 --> 00:15:47.649
then she looks at the oxygen tanks. And so then

00:15:47.649 --> 00:15:53.230
when I heard the thing going and the Demogorgons

00:15:53.230 --> 00:15:57.370
or the Demodogs turning and seeing what the commotion

00:15:57.370 --> 00:16:00.980
was about. Especially when you see that it's

00:16:00.980 --> 00:16:04.919
the oxygen tank in the dryer. It's so, so good.

00:16:05.019 --> 00:16:10.139
I also had a very visceral reaction to the Demodogs

00:16:10.139 --> 00:16:15.159
becoming cats for a second. And just looking

00:16:15.159 --> 00:16:19.360
at the oxygen tank spinning around in the dryer

00:16:19.360 --> 00:16:23.740
like, ooh, what is this? I will say I had a big

00:16:23.740 --> 00:16:25.539
problem with the fact that they gave one of the

00:16:25.539 --> 00:16:28.419
Demodogs like the Tim Allen. Home improvement.

00:16:28.759 --> 00:16:36.919
It was very funny. Come on. It was slightly cheesy.

00:16:37.399 --> 00:16:40.899
Yeah. With that added in noise. That's the only

00:16:40.899 --> 00:16:43.480
point. I was down with the whole moment right

00:16:43.480 --> 00:16:44.980
up until they did that. And then I was like,

00:16:45.000 --> 00:16:49.559
okay. Yeah. But Mrs. Wheeler for the win. And

00:16:49.559 --> 00:16:51.679
then she's just like, yeah, I'm continuing to

00:16:51.679 --> 00:16:53.799
follow you guys. Let's go. I'm here to help.

00:16:53.940 --> 00:16:56.919
No. I'm here. And they're like, no, you got to

00:16:56.919 --> 00:16:59.440
stay. But I take back. Great Mike moment, by

00:16:59.440 --> 00:17:01.759
the way. Great Mike moment right there when he's

00:17:01.759 --> 00:17:04.519
like, this is the group that saved Will. You've

00:17:04.519 --> 00:17:06.559
got to go and trust us and you've got to go back.

00:17:07.380 --> 00:17:10.640
And I kind of want to take back everything I've

00:17:10.640 --> 00:17:13.299
said about Mrs. Wheeler and Mike because they're

00:17:13.299 --> 00:17:18.259
really on it this season. Although. Listen, I

00:17:18.259 --> 00:17:21.480
understand the sentiment. The recency bias is

00:17:21.480 --> 00:17:23.720
strong with you right now. Because if you go

00:17:23.720 --> 00:17:26.519
back. There was a good reason why for the first

00:17:26.519 --> 00:17:29.380
four seasons, at least with Mike, we were like,

00:17:29.559 --> 00:17:34.180
good God, this guy sucks. Yes, this is true.

00:17:34.319 --> 00:17:38.059
No, I don't necessarily want to take it all back,

00:17:38.180 --> 00:17:42.859
but I do think that they have, my opinion of

00:17:42.859 --> 00:17:47.059
them now has superseded, they have made up for

00:17:47.059 --> 00:17:52.700
in spades, the lackluster performances previous.

00:17:54.000 --> 00:17:58.319
In terms of character. Yeah. Yes. Especially,

00:17:58.460 --> 00:18:02.420
I think, with Mrs. Wheeler because she was really

00:18:02.420 --> 00:18:05.660
relegated to this kind of side character who

00:18:05.660 --> 00:18:08.380
is very willfully ignorant of everything that's

00:18:08.380 --> 00:18:11.380
going on and just very much, you know, Holly

00:18:11.380 --> 00:18:13.819
points one direction, she looks the other direction

00:18:13.819 --> 00:18:18.869
type of situation. very much on the outskirts

00:18:18.869 --> 00:18:20.690
of everything that's going on. And you're kind

00:18:20.690 --> 00:18:22.990
of going, why do we care so much about her? This,

00:18:23.150 --> 00:18:26.150
this is why we care about her. Yes. I, I got

00:18:26.150 --> 00:18:28.789
a, I got a little announcement for those of you

00:18:28.789 --> 00:18:31.390
online and, and in the world that are like, I

00:18:31.390 --> 00:18:34.250
want, Mike is no longer good. I want to go back

00:18:34.250 --> 00:18:36.990
to the old Mike, go back to the dark cave of

00:18:36.990 --> 00:18:41.809
where you came from. From whence you came. Crawl

00:18:41.809 --> 00:18:44.910
back into the abyss. We don't want to hear from

00:18:44.910 --> 00:18:47.710
you. You have terrible taste in human people.

00:18:52.289 --> 00:18:57.410
Dear Lord. My goodness. So the next thing that

00:18:57.410 --> 00:18:59.849
I, you know, I would say it was a big reaction,

00:18:59.910 --> 00:19:02.809
but honestly, it was kind of a lackluster reaction

00:19:02.809 --> 00:19:07.930
for me was Nancy and Jonathan's breakup. I think.

00:19:08.650 --> 00:19:11.150
It didn't necessarily come out of nowhere, but

00:19:11.150 --> 00:19:13.430
I feel like we hear during their conversation

00:19:13.430 --> 00:19:17.809
all the problems that they had. And I feel like

00:19:17.809 --> 00:19:21.950
we maybe should have seen more of those in the

00:19:21.950 --> 00:19:25.390
interim time between the end of season four and

00:19:25.390 --> 00:19:29.890
the beginning of season five. And obviously there's,

00:19:29.890 --> 00:19:34.390
you know, almost two years have passed. And so

00:19:34.390 --> 00:19:38.019
a lot of things I'm sure have come up. He sold

00:19:38.019 --> 00:19:41.000
her sweater to Goodwill and hates everything

00:19:41.000 --> 00:19:46.079
she's ever written? So there's been two instances

00:19:46.079 --> 00:19:47.980
of this type of conversation that have come up

00:19:47.980 --> 00:19:50.880
that my wife and I have been like, what the actual

00:19:50.880 --> 00:19:54.740
flippin' flyers? Like, who does that? Because

00:19:54.740 --> 00:19:58.980
there was like this, you know, we... The TikTok

00:19:58.980 --> 00:20:01.599
trend of, like, we listen and we don't judge.

00:20:01.819 --> 00:20:04.400
And couples will do it. And one couple was like,

00:20:04.599 --> 00:20:06.680
oh, yeah, when I get angry with you, sometimes

00:20:06.680 --> 00:20:08.779
I donate your favorite clothes to Goodwill. And

00:20:08.779 --> 00:20:10.759
then I'm like, oh, yeah, you must have lost it.

00:20:12.160 --> 00:20:16.220
That's horrible. I'm sorry. That's, like, really

00:20:16.220 --> 00:20:19.160
toxic. Let's all be very clear. That action's

00:20:19.160 --> 00:20:21.380
very toxic. Jonathan, it's like, first of all,

00:20:21.400 --> 00:20:23.690
Nancy's like. Has, like, very relatable things

00:20:23.690 --> 00:20:25.750
to say about Jonathan. And then he's like, I

00:20:25.750 --> 00:20:27.910
hate reading the thing that you want to do for

00:20:27.910 --> 00:20:30.970
your career. I hate your articles so much. And

00:20:30.970 --> 00:20:33.269
then he clarifies, to be fair. He does clarify

00:20:33.269 --> 00:20:36.789
to say, you aren't interested in my actual opinions

00:20:36.789 --> 00:20:38.509
about your articles. You just want to hear how

00:20:38.509 --> 00:20:40.769
great they are. Which, that would be annoying,

00:20:40.910 --> 00:20:44.089
certainly. Yes. And then she responds, but they

00:20:44.089 --> 00:20:46.849
are great. Yeah, which is super annoying and

00:20:46.849 --> 00:20:50.799
very Hermione -coded for Nancy. And this is then

00:20:50.799 --> 00:20:53.400
Jonathan and her are very Ron and Hermione coded

00:20:53.400 --> 00:20:55.779
in ways. And this is why I think they don't actually

00:20:55.779 --> 00:20:57.539
work as a couple, but that's a whole different

00:20:57.539 --> 00:21:02.339
podcast. So, but then Jonathan is like, so first

00:21:02.339 --> 00:21:03.680
of all, he's like, by the way, I hate your career.

00:21:03.779 --> 00:21:06.539
And second of all, I donated one of your favorite

00:21:06.539 --> 00:21:08.779
articles of clothing and then didn't tell you

00:21:08.779 --> 00:21:12.819
that I did that. What? No, you guys should be

00:21:12.819 --> 00:21:15.619
broken up. This is crazy. And like, it's, it's

00:21:15.619 --> 00:21:17.460
nice to refreshing that they're like, we're feeling

00:21:17.460 --> 00:21:20.369
strangled by their shared trauma. And suffocated

00:21:20.369 --> 00:21:22.049
by that. That was important information to see.

00:21:22.089 --> 00:21:23.990
But you're right. In terms of, like, storytelling,

00:21:24.210 --> 00:21:27.509
there was a lot of tell. Right. And don't show.

00:21:27.630 --> 00:21:29.650
And not enough show. I feel like the California

00:21:29.650 --> 00:21:31.470
storyline for Jonathan really painted him into

00:21:31.470 --> 00:21:35.470
this corner. Right. Like, either they were going

00:21:35.470 --> 00:21:37.430
to resolve everything off camera, which would

00:21:37.430 --> 00:21:39.269
have been very unsatisfying. And then they'd

00:21:39.269 --> 00:21:41.650
still be, you know, dating or whatever. And it

00:21:41.650 --> 00:21:44.329
would all be fine. Or they were going to have

00:21:44.329 --> 00:21:48.779
struggles. And have to break up. And my wife

00:21:48.779 --> 00:21:51.420
and I, you know, we saw that ring in the cassette

00:21:51.420 --> 00:21:54.920
tape. And we went, oh, no. Like, trying to fix

00:21:54.920 --> 00:21:57.500
everything by getting engaged is crazy. That's

00:21:57.500 --> 00:21:59.720
like having a kid to save your marriage. That,

00:21:59.740 --> 00:22:04.799
what? Stupid. Stupid decisions. PSA, this is

00:22:04.799 --> 00:22:07.900
your early public service announcement. This

00:22:07.900 --> 00:22:10.920
episode. Please don't do that. Please don't do

00:22:10.920 --> 00:22:12.220
that. Please don't have kids to save your marriage.

00:22:12.220 --> 00:22:15.559
For the sake of yourselves. For the sake of said

00:22:15.559 --> 00:22:18.980
child. For the sake of anybody involved, please

00:22:18.980 --> 00:22:21.000
don't do that. Please don't do that. It's really

00:22:21.000 --> 00:22:25.079
a lot of pressure on one kid. Yes. Please don't.

00:22:25.079 --> 00:22:29.920
Please don't. Oh my gosh. Yeah, I just... I was

00:22:29.920 --> 00:22:32.519
a fine conclusion to come to them. I liked that

00:22:32.519 --> 00:22:34.700
scene a lot. I thought the acting was phenomenal

00:22:34.700 --> 00:22:37.599
between the two. And also, more importantly,

00:22:37.859 --> 00:22:41.400
for show stuff... Okay, so does the exotic matter...

00:22:41.900 --> 00:22:44.859
feed off of emotional stability, because when

00:22:44.859 --> 00:22:47.539
they're emotionally unstable is when the whole

00:22:47.539 --> 00:22:49.460
melting thing's happening, and as soon as they

00:22:49.460 --> 00:22:53.920
find emotional stability, it's all stable and

00:22:53.920 --> 00:22:57.420
good. I have no idea. That's like a real weak

00:22:57.420 --> 00:22:59.920
theory. I'm not actually behind that, but it

00:22:59.920 --> 00:23:04.299
was a thought that crossed my mind. Those two

00:23:04.299 --> 00:23:06.740
random soldiers just had a very good emotional

00:23:06.740 --> 00:23:09.319
stability right as they were - As they were dying.

00:23:09.710 --> 00:23:11.990
Or they died, and so it froze because there was

00:23:11.990 --> 00:23:19.569
no emotional instability. Oh my gosh. Yeah. Good.

00:23:19.710 --> 00:23:22.470
Good, good, good, good, good. So, episode six.

00:23:23.569 --> 00:23:26.150
My two biggest reactions from episode six, though,

00:23:26.210 --> 00:23:29.549
were these two. First of all, the cave and the

00:23:29.549 --> 00:23:33.029
briefcase, and then Max. Dear Max, run. The cave

00:23:33.029 --> 00:23:37.099
and the briefcase. Listen. It's... I think they've

00:23:37.099 --> 00:23:39.059
done a pretty good job of building in this backstory

00:23:39.059 --> 00:23:42.599
for Vecna so that even if you haven't seen the

00:23:42.599 --> 00:23:46.019
play, you can understand what's happening. I

00:23:46.019 --> 00:23:48.279
will say, there's this very strange space on

00:23:48.279 --> 00:23:50.200
being like, well, I saw the play, so therefore

00:23:50.200 --> 00:23:52.859
I can do all of these predictions. Like, we can

00:23:52.859 --> 00:23:55.140
talk about, because Aurelia and I went and saw

00:23:55.140 --> 00:23:57.880
the play in London over the summer, you and I

00:23:57.880 --> 00:24:00.720
are able to have a discourse around the Mind

00:24:00.720 --> 00:24:03.269
Flayer's probably the ultimate villain. Henry

00:24:03.269 --> 00:24:05.450
doesn't realize that he's actually being played.

00:24:05.750 --> 00:24:07.950
He's probably going to turncoat. Like we can

00:24:07.950 --> 00:24:10.150
have those conversations and we probably would

00:24:10.150 --> 00:24:12.589
have anyways, because you and I are following

00:24:12.589 --> 00:24:15.029
a lot of people on social media who are doing

00:24:15.029 --> 00:24:16.509
all sorts of stuff and that have explained the

00:24:16.509 --> 00:24:19.289
play, et cetera. We would have done that, that

00:24:19.289 --> 00:24:22.089
research, but it's kind of frustrating to be

00:24:22.089 --> 00:24:24.130
like, all right, the people who've seen the play

00:24:24.130 --> 00:24:26.269
kind of already know what, how this is going

00:24:26.269 --> 00:24:29.619
to end. Right. And the people who haven't are

00:24:29.619 --> 00:24:31.759
kind of a little too confused and are having

00:24:31.759 --> 00:24:34.779
to rely on people. It's just such a strange social

00:24:34.779 --> 00:24:37.680
media space where a lot of people are getting

00:24:37.680 --> 00:24:39.880
their information from content creators who have

00:24:39.880 --> 00:24:42.799
either listened to somebody else explain what

00:24:42.799 --> 00:24:44.400
the play is or went and saw the play themselves.

00:24:44.660 --> 00:24:46.779
And it's kind of this funky game of accurate

00:24:46.779 --> 00:24:51.440
telephone. I will say it's pretty accurate, though,

00:24:51.539 --> 00:24:57.009
but it is quite frustrating. Because they really

00:24:57.009 --> 00:25:01.450
should have released some version of the play

00:25:01.450 --> 00:25:05.190
to the masses ahead of time. We said this, I

00:25:05.190 --> 00:25:08.829
think, before. Just let us read it. Right. Yeah.

00:25:08.990 --> 00:25:13.369
Give us the script or film a production of it

00:25:13.369 --> 00:25:18.170
and put it on Netflix and let everybody see it

00:25:18.170 --> 00:25:21.750
to understand what's going on. Because I do feel

00:25:21.750 --> 00:25:25.210
like... There are still so many questions because

00:25:25.210 --> 00:25:28.430
they're kind of teasing the information and giving

00:25:28.430 --> 00:25:32.470
the characters viewpoint. You know, Holly's watching

00:25:32.470 --> 00:25:35.789
this in the cave and watching what Henry is doing

00:25:35.789 --> 00:25:38.930
and watching him open the briefcase, but then

00:25:38.930 --> 00:25:41.470
it cuts because Holly turns away. Right. And

00:25:41.470 --> 00:25:43.589
so we don't actually see, I kept expecting it

00:25:43.589 --> 00:25:47.359
to go back to at least inform the viewers. what

00:25:47.359 --> 00:25:49.960
was going on no they're clearly gonna do that

00:25:49.960 --> 00:25:53.140
in the finale and i bet anything that the finale

00:25:53.140 --> 00:25:56.380
is gonna open with a flashback to dr brenner's

00:25:56.380 --> 00:25:59.559
um dad captain brenner who i bet anything is

00:25:59.559 --> 00:26:03.680
the actual uh creator of that journal that dustin

00:26:03.680 --> 00:26:06.059
found oh it's the wrong brenner because there's

00:26:06.059 --> 00:26:08.359
the there's that wonderful drawing of the exotic

00:26:08.359 --> 00:26:12.740
matter and in season four dr brenner draws the

00:26:12.740 --> 00:26:14.680
cow dog and it's like i've never been much of

00:26:14.680 --> 00:26:17.680
an artist right Yeah. And now it could be that

00:26:17.680 --> 00:26:19.380
an assistant created that notebook and it's still

00:26:19.380 --> 00:26:21.859
Dr. Brenner stuff. But I'm like, this is like

00:26:21.859 --> 00:26:24.180
a little Sam theory. It's like Captain Brenner

00:26:24.180 --> 00:26:26.200
wrote that notebook, not Dr. Brenner. But who

00:26:26.200 --> 00:26:28.539
knows? But the point is, I think they're going

00:26:28.539 --> 00:26:30.259
to open up with a flashback to explain a bunch

00:26:30.259 --> 00:26:33.619
of that stuff. Or it'll happen in it at some

00:26:33.619 --> 00:26:35.900
point. Yeah, go for it. Exactly. But the frustrating

00:26:35.900 --> 00:26:38.960
thing is that currently there's a bunch of people

00:26:38.960 --> 00:26:41.180
who are confused and are going, well, what was

00:26:41.180 --> 00:26:43.420
in the briefcase? Yeah. And then everybody who's

00:26:43.420 --> 00:26:46.269
seen the play. Or knows about the play is going,

00:26:46.390 --> 00:26:48.390
well, it was the mind flayer in the briefcase.

00:26:49.230 --> 00:26:51.509
Obviously. Did he see the particles come out?

00:26:51.809 --> 00:26:54.349
It's like one of their equipment from Captain

00:26:54.349 --> 00:26:57.410
Brenner's ship that is from, that went to the

00:26:57.410 --> 00:26:59.890
abyss slash dimension X that he touches and gets

00:26:59.890 --> 00:27:01.490
transported or something like that. But yeah,

00:27:01.569 --> 00:27:04.650
eventually he ends up with the mind flayer with

00:27:04.650 --> 00:27:08.049
that tool. It's just, it's just, it is a little

00:27:08.049 --> 00:27:10.250
frustrating because it does feel like there's

00:27:10.250 --> 00:27:12.130
just so many, I mean, with any show, there are

00:27:12.130 --> 00:27:13.289
going to be a lot of people who are confused

00:27:13.289 --> 00:27:14.930
and it feels like there's a little bit, Too many

00:27:14.930 --> 00:27:17.009
people confused about this one thing because

00:27:17.009 --> 00:27:19.710
they haven't seen the play. And I don't know.

00:27:19.769 --> 00:27:22.029
It's hard. It's hard to get past. But still a

00:27:22.029 --> 00:27:23.710
big reaction because at this point, it's not

00:27:23.710 --> 00:27:26.250
even a theory anymore to me. The Mind Flayer

00:27:26.250 --> 00:27:30.349
is in charge, not Vector. And that it hasn't

00:27:30.349 --> 00:27:34.990
been proven, but it's a pretty set wrap for me.

00:27:35.049 --> 00:27:37.849
And I'm going to bring it up again in a little

00:27:37.849 --> 00:27:40.170
bit. Okay, great. So don't you fret. Here we

00:27:40.170 --> 00:27:42.609
go. Also, the other biggest reaction, as I said,

00:27:42.609 --> 00:27:47.369
was Max, run. Like, you already didn't make it

00:27:47.369 --> 00:27:50.450
out because the music turned off from Kate Bush.

00:27:50.829 --> 00:27:54.289
And then you got shut out. Like, I know we need

00:27:54.289 --> 00:27:57.450
to help Holly get out. That's so noble of you.

00:27:58.109 --> 00:28:01.829
Super great. But. You did not know that portal

00:28:01.829 --> 00:28:05.289
was going to open, ma 'am. You had no idea. Ma

00:28:05.289 --> 00:28:09.690
'am. Yes, seriously. You, me, everyone else.

00:28:10.200 --> 00:28:13.160
Why are they talking for 20 minutes instead of

00:28:13.160 --> 00:28:16.500
running up that hill? Run, run, run up the hill.

00:28:16.759 --> 00:28:18.500
But then she starts walking. It takes her a while

00:28:18.500 --> 00:28:24.200
to run. Even after they're going to their separate

00:28:24.200 --> 00:28:26.440
things, I was like, oh yes, this is nice and

00:28:26.440 --> 00:28:30.680
cinematic. Can you run now? Please. I get the

00:28:30.680 --> 00:28:33.980
fact that we're all like, come on, come on. That

00:28:33.980 --> 00:28:38.299
is precisely what the medium is supposed to do.

00:28:38.750 --> 00:28:42.650
And make you feel, but I, I confess myself extremely

00:28:42.650 --> 00:28:44.849
annoyed, even though I think it's exactly right.

00:28:44.890 --> 00:28:47.009
And then I'm supposed to be annoyed and I'm supposed

00:28:47.009 --> 00:28:48.970
to be frustrated and I'm supposed to be feeling

00:28:48.970 --> 00:28:52.869
anxiety. And so I say this with, with all credence

00:28:52.869 --> 00:28:55.529
to the fact that this is good. This is good television,

00:28:55.650 --> 00:29:01.809
but my God, I, there's a great, a great, a great.

00:29:02.890 --> 00:29:05.130
gif that somebody put together tiktok video something

00:29:05.130 --> 00:29:08.130
of that nature of mr bean like his most famous

00:29:08.130 --> 00:29:10.309
like looking at his watch and then laying down

00:29:10.309 --> 00:29:13.630
the field and everything as he's waiting for

00:29:13.630 --> 00:29:17.609
max to run so good it's really good if you're

00:29:17.609 --> 00:29:18.910
listening to this podcast and you're like i have

00:29:18.910 --> 00:29:21.650
no idea who mr bean is hello gen z hi gen alpha

00:29:21.650 --> 00:29:25.670
uh look him up he's really weirdly funny a lot

00:29:25.670 --> 00:29:28.390
of physical comedy rowan atkinson is a legend

00:29:28.390 --> 00:29:33.339
episode seven biggest reaction What is this Dark

00:29:33.339 --> 00:29:37.359
Crystal Cave? If none of you have seen Dark Crystal,

00:29:37.619 --> 00:29:40.140
it's a 1980s movie. I watched it 10 ,000 years

00:29:40.140 --> 00:29:42.200
ago. I watched a recap just a little bit ago

00:29:42.200 --> 00:29:44.859
to remind myself of what's going on. The cave

00:29:44.859 --> 00:29:48.900
that Vecna is in. First of all, I don't think

00:29:48.900 --> 00:29:51.559
it's a cave. I think it is the corporeal form

00:29:51.559 --> 00:29:54.099
of the Mind Flayer. We see those beating hearts.

00:29:54.339 --> 00:29:57.079
We see its weird shape. I think that this is

00:29:57.079 --> 00:29:58.960
where that beast comes from. And so when they

00:29:58.960 --> 00:30:01.069
eventually go to kill... The beast, they will

00:30:01.069 --> 00:30:05.329
have to destroy its physical form. But this cave

00:30:05.329 --> 00:30:08.130
that's there looks almost, it's certainly a reference

00:30:08.130 --> 00:30:10.710
to the Dark Crystal. If not, there may be something

00:30:10.710 --> 00:30:12.450
more going along. It is interesting that that

00:30:12.450 --> 00:30:15.150
Dark Crystal, that movie is all about, so a little

00:30:15.150 --> 00:30:17.690
bit of a spoilers or a quick summary of that

00:30:17.690 --> 00:30:20.630
movie. That movie is all about like, hey, there's

00:30:20.630 --> 00:30:23.730
a crystal that got shattered. And so Dark Crystal

00:30:23.730 --> 00:30:26.690
came out and it basically split a whole species

00:30:26.690 --> 00:30:29.390
in two different parts. And the whole thing is

00:30:29.390 --> 00:30:31.779
about. putting that crystal back to where it

00:30:31.779 --> 00:30:34.539
was and creating balance and rejoining those

00:30:34.539 --> 00:30:38.279
two worlds together, which is, is Henry Creel's

00:30:38.279 --> 00:30:42.859
plan. Is it not? Yeah. Uh, and so like, I don't

00:30:42.859 --> 00:30:45.299
know how much of a reference this is going to

00:30:45.299 --> 00:30:48.920
be, but like creating balance and was this world

00:30:48.920 --> 00:30:51.799
is dimension X and earth actually the same place

00:30:51.799 --> 00:30:53.819
and it should be brought together. I have no

00:30:53.819 --> 00:30:56.980
idea. I don't think so, but I was intrigued to

00:30:56.980 --> 00:31:00.410
see that this was about like, Now, their planet

00:31:00.410 --> 00:31:02.769
is a whole planet, and it's really just two species

00:31:02.769 --> 00:31:05.269
that have been split in half. And they're trying

00:31:05.269 --> 00:31:07.829
to bring everything back together to create harmony.

00:31:08.190 --> 00:31:11.009
And that's clearly not Vekta's plan. Vekta's

00:31:11.009 --> 00:31:13.549
plan is to take over and reform the world as

00:31:13.549 --> 00:31:17.069
new. But it was just enough to make me go, huh,

00:31:17.250 --> 00:31:21.569
I wonder if there's anything there. To make you

00:31:21.569 --> 00:31:26.029
go, hmm. To reference something else that people

00:31:26.029 --> 00:31:31.509
won't know. So listen, I'm going to have my biggest

00:31:31.509 --> 00:31:34.210
negative reaction of the whole three episodes.

00:31:35.430 --> 00:31:39.690
Holly plummeting to her death. Oh gosh, yeah.

00:31:39.849 --> 00:31:42.869
I gotta say, as soon as she started... Okay,

00:31:42.970 --> 00:31:45.789
let's pull back. I think it's interesting that

00:31:45.789 --> 00:31:47.450
she has this, like, I'm going to run away from

00:31:47.450 --> 00:31:50.049
Vecna and I found this rift. And at first I was

00:31:50.049 --> 00:31:51.349
like, that's a convenient rift. And then we find

00:31:51.349 --> 00:31:53.890
out later Vecna's putting those rifts there on

00:31:53.890 --> 00:31:58.099
purpose. Okay, fine. Easy peasy. I can buy into

00:31:58.099 --> 00:32:01.099
that. And then she pulls through and then she

00:32:01.099 --> 00:32:04.180
falls. And I'm sitting there being like, she

00:32:04.180 --> 00:32:06.839
shouldn't, she shouldn't be falling. Right? Like,

00:32:06.880 --> 00:32:10.160
it's not like there's a gravitational force that's

00:32:10.160 --> 00:32:14.779
heavier. That's creating gravity down in upside

00:32:14.779 --> 00:32:16.880
down Hawkins in the abyss. Like it should be

00:32:16.880 --> 00:32:20.920
equal weight gravity. I like, I guess they really

00:32:20.920 --> 00:32:23.579
needed a way to be like, guys, it's up there.

00:32:24.279 --> 00:32:26.519
And so here's how we show that it's up there.

00:32:26.839 --> 00:32:30.039
But Holly, first of all, she just falls. And

00:32:30.039 --> 00:32:33.839
then it happens to be right on top of Hawkins

00:32:33.839 --> 00:32:36.920
Lab, which again seemed contrived. Well, not

00:32:36.920 --> 00:32:39.240
necessarily. I think that that makes sense because

00:32:39.240 --> 00:32:42.339
that's where the exotic matter is. And so everything

00:32:42.339 --> 00:32:46.599
is coming out of the exotic matter. But Vecna's

00:32:46.599 --> 00:32:49.400
lair. being literally right on top of the same

00:32:49.400 --> 00:32:51.960
place just happens to be right there and that

00:32:51.960 --> 00:32:54.079
rift just happens to be right there is what feels

00:32:54.079 --> 00:32:57.240
a bit contrived okay so she pulls out and she

00:32:57.240 --> 00:32:59.299
falls immediately down there like i understand

00:32:59.299 --> 00:33:00.960
that being in the center of everything that's

00:33:00.960 --> 00:33:03.160
fine but in terms of her like bloop and then

00:33:03.160 --> 00:33:05.640
she falls and then nancy hears the screen and

00:33:05.640 --> 00:33:08.799
she's like oh holly and it just just like Okay,

00:33:08.839 --> 00:33:10.859
there's a lot of coincidences happening that

00:33:10.859 --> 00:33:13.460
seem less interesting and more just like, well,

00:33:13.500 --> 00:33:16.460
we need a way to show this. And the fact that

00:33:16.460 --> 00:33:21.640
Becta's just like, yoink! Also, that is an insanely

00:33:21.640 --> 00:33:27.119
long distance for him to stop terminal velocity.

00:33:27.480 --> 00:33:30.539
Yeah, gently. Gently stop terminal velocity.

00:33:30.539 --> 00:33:34.039
Gently, yeah. And then pull her back up. Yeah.

00:33:34.099 --> 00:33:38.170
With expedience. Did not love that. That precise

00:33:38.170 --> 00:33:39.910
moment. The whole rest of the show, I think,

00:33:39.910 --> 00:33:42.690
has been, you know, if not brilliantly written,

00:33:42.769 --> 00:33:45.190
then very arguable that this is the right way

00:33:45.190 --> 00:33:47.670
to go. That scene, I was like, I guess you need

00:33:47.670 --> 00:33:50.289
a way to get from point A to point B. But this

00:33:50.289 --> 00:33:53.450
felt a little bit weaker than the normal expectations

00:33:53.450 --> 00:33:58.170
I have for Stranger Things. Yeah. My biggest

00:33:58.170 --> 00:34:00.750
reactions, I think, are a lot of people's biggest

00:34:00.750 --> 00:34:04.190
reactions with this episode. Dustin and Steve's

00:34:04.190 --> 00:34:10.230
makeup. I honestly, this was the moment that

00:34:10.230 --> 00:34:14.449
I had tears brimming. Not the potential breakup

00:34:14.449 --> 00:34:17.530
earlier, or not potential, but not the breakup

00:34:17.530 --> 00:34:22.289
earlier, not the fight earlier, not any of the

00:34:22.289 --> 00:34:26.150
forthcoming stuff, but this right here was when

00:34:26.150 --> 00:34:30.429
it really got me. And Lucas and Max being reunited.

00:34:30.789 --> 00:34:33.789
Those two moments were the emotional beats for

00:34:33.789 --> 00:34:38.750
me. And so Dustin and Steve making up and actually

00:34:38.750 --> 00:34:42.170
having that conversation and apologizing to each

00:34:42.170 --> 00:34:45.130
other and explaining why they need each other

00:34:45.130 --> 00:34:48.630
and how important they are and that they should

00:34:48.630 --> 00:34:50.570
have been there for each other this whole time.

00:34:50.650 --> 00:34:52.510
And they were kind of taking each other for granted.

00:34:52.510 --> 00:34:57.929
And it's just so wonderful. So amazing. If you're

00:34:57.929 --> 00:35:00.550
looking for the opposite definition of toxic

00:35:00.550 --> 00:35:03.849
masculinity, it's this right here. Certainly.

00:35:03.949 --> 00:35:08.070
This conversation. It's the exact opposite. It

00:35:08.070 --> 00:35:10.730
feels very much, and this is so funny because

00:35:10.730 --> 00:35:12.730
this is not the type of thing that you saw in

00:35:12.730 --> 00:35:14.550
any of the films, but it feels very Lord of the

00:35:14.550 --> 00:35:17.650
Rings coded in terms of watching male friendships

00:35:17.650 --> 00:35:22.909
that are blooming and having a good time with

00:35:22.909 --> 00:35:26.179
each other. Super supportive, you know. to you

00:35:26.179 --> 00:35:28.199
guys. It's awesome. It's really great to see.

00:35:28.219 --> 00:35:33.159
I love it a lot. And then the last one. Will,

00:35:33.400 --> 00:35:35.820
or not the last one. The last one for me of what

00:35:35.820 --> 00:35:39.360
I think a lot of people had big reactions to

00:35:39.360 --> 00:35:42.659
is Will's whole coming out, which I think was

00:35:42.659 --> 00:35:45.179
very... I know there's a lot of different opinions

00:35:45.179 --> 00:35:48.179
about how many people were involved in this situation

00:35:48.179 --> 00:35:50.780
and should it have really been everybody or should

00:35:50.780 --> 00:35:52.800
it have just been a select few and things like

00:35:52.800 --> 00:35:56.530
that. I personally... think that it made sense

00:35:56.530 --> 00:36:01.929
for it to be either just joyce jonathan and mike

00:36:01.929 --> 00:36:05.570
or everyone i don't think that there's a way

00:36:05.570 --> 00:36:08.250
to have and he doesn't even really need to have

00:36:08.250 --> 00:36:09.670
that conversation with jonathan because they've

00:36:09.670 --> 00:36:11.849
kind of already had it yeah you can see that

00:36:11.849 --> 00:36:16.730
on jonathan's face yeah i know buddy yeah i know

00:36:16.730 --> 00:36:18.650
he's so proud of him in that moment which is

00:36:18.650 --> 00:36:22.469
really really sweet little brotherly And what

00:36:22.469 --> 00:36:25.289
I was hoping for, because I was hoping that Jonathan

00:36:25.289 --> 00:36:27.190
would be there to help him with that moment.

00:36:27.309 --> 00:36:31.969
So I, I really, I think that it makes sense because

00:36:31.969 --> 00:36:36.050
all of these people are now going to be relying

00:36:36.050 --> 00:36:41.530
on will and what he can do during this mission

00:36:41.530 --> 00:36:48.159
with L and eight and being able to. on him is

00:36:48.159 --> 00:36:51.739
also him relying on himself and being true to

00:36:51.739 --> 00:36:54.940
himself. And that's a really key moment for him

00:36:54.940 --> 00:37:00.780
to be able to fully accept who he is and then

00:37:00.780 --> 00:37:05.260
share that with everyone. And so I think that

00:37:05.260 --> 00:37:08.239
just builds the trust in the whole group. And

00:37:08.239 --> 00:37:11.789
also at this point. You know, everybody's really

00:37:11.789 --> 00:37:14.329
just this kind of quirky family at this point.

00:37:14.369 --> 00:37:17.510
And it would be odd to leave out, you know, I

00:37:17.510 --> 00:37:20.949
would like to talk to these seven of you. Erica,

00:37:21.030 --> 00:37:23.030
stay home. Murray, don't need to see you here.

00:37:23.469 --> 00:37:28.590
Yeah. You seven stay over there. I would be interested,

00:37:28.630 --> 00:37:30.630
again, in terms of showing, not telling, it would

00:37:30.630 --> 00:37:32.989
be nice to see him have relationships with more

00:37:32.989 --> 00:37:35.050
of these people. You can surmise that over the

00:37:35.050 --> 00:37:40.219
last 600 days, that. He has created more relationships

00:37:40.219 --> 00:37:44.559
with everybody. But yeah, I thought for a second

00:37:44.559 --> 00:37:46.400
that we were just going to get Mike, Joyce, and

00:37:46.400 --> 00:37:48.239
him. And then he says, actually, I think everybody

00:37:48.239 --> 00:37:50.579
needs to hear this. And that's great. I was shocked

00:37:50.579 --> 00:37:54.159
by that. I, you know, in terms of Vecna having

00:37:54.159 --> 00:37:56.940
no hold over him, it's like everybody that I'm

00:37:56.940 --> 00:37:58.800
going into battle with needs to know this so

00:37:58.800 --> 00:38:00.820
that there's no weaknesses for him to point out.

00:38:01.360 --> 00:38:05.730
Exactly. Still. a plausibly you know a very frightening

00:38:05.730 --> 00:38:08.789
perspective terrifying and it would i you know

00:38:08.789 --> 00:38:11.650
i i do have a slight criticism in in two different

00:38:11.650 --> 00:38:13.550
directions on this on this scene first of all

00:38:13.550 --> 00:38:15.349
the criticism for those people who are saying

00:38:15.349 --> 00:38:20.969
this was so anticlimactic the episode seven the

00:38:20.969 --> 00:38:24.530
penultimate episode of the entire series is anticlimactic

00:38:24.530 --> 00:38:28.929
from an action standpoint in terms of it is really

00:38:28.929 --> 00:38:31.440
all set up We got a little bit of action with

00:38:31.440 --> 00:38:34.639
Vecna and Will earlier. The rescue mission for

00:38:34.639 --> 00:38:39.960
Will felt truncated and not as much information

00:38:39.960 --> 00:38:42.119
as we could have gotten. It just felt rather

00:38:42.119 --> 00:38:45.400
easy for Elle to go in and do that. The escape

00:38:45.400 --> 00:38:47.199
from Camazotz I thought was great in Episode

00:38:47.199 --> 00:38:49.699
6, but Episode 7, not really. This does feel

00:38:49.699 --> 00:38:52.340
very, and this is a reference that Sierra and

00:38:52.340 --> 00:38:55.480
I will understand, but it does feel very Dragon

00:38:55.480 --> 00:38:59.849
Age -y. Where you are told... by the video game

00:38:59.849 --> 00:39:02.329
from here on out you will not be able to come

00:39:02.329 --> 00:39:05.150
back to your main base of operations yeah please

00:39:05.150 --> 00:39:07.150
finish up any side quests that you'd like before

00:39:07.150 --> 00:39:08.989
the end of the game starts and you go around

00:39:08.989 --> 00:39:10.849
and you go through all the side quests for all

00:39:10.849 --> 00:39:12.590
the different characters and you resolve all

00:39:12.590 --> 00:39:15.800
of their different stuff so we got Hopper and

00:39:15.800 --> 00:39:18.679
Joyce have a little moment together. Not that

00:39:18.679 --> 00:39:21.300
there's really any resolution needed there. We've

00:39:21.300 --> 00:39:24.579
got Nancy and Jonathan resolving and deciding

00:39:24.579 --> 00:39:28.440
to break up. We've got Lucas back with Max. We've

00:39:28.440 --> 00:39:32.260
got... What's the other pair? Dustin and Steve.

00:39:32.460 --> 00:39:35.679
We've got Steve and Dustin as well. And now we've

00:39:35.679 --> 00:39:38.519
got Will with his big secret to everyone. So

00:39:38.519 --> 00:39:42.389
this is... in terms of a lot of character development

00:39:42.389 --> 00:39:45.809
and a lot of information that we need to know.

00:39:46.949 --> 00:39:51.070
You don't have to have big action all the time,

00:39:51.110 --> 00:39:53.250
people. And I think that this was actually a

00:39:53.250 --> 00:39:56.030
fairly climactic setup, which is ultimately what

00:39:56.030 --> 00:39:58.750
the penultimate thing is. Now, of course, the

00:39:58.750 --> 00:40:02.630
end of season five, part one, super climactic

00:40:02.630 --> 00:40:04.630
in terms of action. Actions and powers, and that's

00:40:04.630 --> 00:40:06.650
what everybody wanted to see. But I think it's

00:40:06.650 --> 00:40:09.250
fair that the Duffer brothers decided that we're

00:40:09.250 --> 00:40:11.530
going to take care of everything at home, in

00:40:11.530 --> 00:40:14.230
our home base, at the Squawk, before we go off

00:40:14.230 --> 00:40:16.469
to the thing that we can't restart. Because after

00:40:16.469 --> 00:40:19.070
this, it's Game Man and it's game credits. Yes.

00:40:19.170 --> 00:40:21.829
Well, and also, I think that this is very much

00:40:21.829 --> 00:40:25.869
the theme of every season's penultimate episode.

00:40:26.530 --> 00:40:29.809
Everybody gets together again. Before they separate.

00:40:29.909 --> 00:40:33.130
And gets ready. to separate and go off and do

00:40:33.130 --> 00:40:36.369
what they need to do. And this is very much a

00:40:36.369 --> 00:40:40.250
literal, everyone is together in that room before

00:40:40.250 --> 00:40:43.369
they go off and they do their own thing. So I

00:40:43.369 --> 00:40:46.409
think that it makes perfect sense. Yeah. And

00:40:46.409 --> 00:40:49.150
then, so my other, my other criticism is a little

00:40:49.150 --> 00:40:52.269
bit around what's something specific to 2025.

00:40:52.949 --> 00:40:56.110
I would love to hear from anybody who's gay,

00:40:56.190 --> 00:40:59.440
who lived through the eighties. to explain a

00:40:59.440 --> 00:41:01.360
little bit about what the terminology would have

00:41:01.360 --> 00:41:05.760
been like in a scene like this. Because the impact

00:41:05.760 --> 00:41:08.079
of this scene in 2025 is that this is another

00:41:08.079 --> 00:41:11.920
show that's in a big fandom that has skirted

00:41:11.920 --> 00:41:15.099
around actually saying the word gay or homosexual.

00:41:15.619 --> 00:41:17.699
It's not said in any way, shape, or form. And

00:41:17.699 --> 00:41:20.920
that has become a loud, blaring complaint from

00:41:20.920 --> 00:41:24.929
the LGBTQI plus community. And so in terms of

00:41:24.929 --> 00:41:26.650
now, I'm not part of that community, but I'm

00:41:26.650 --> 00:41:29.010
here listening to that complaint and voicing

00:41:29.010 --> 00:41:31.809
it here for those who aren't on the pod. And

00:41:31.809 --> 00:41:35.849
I understand like that. It sucks to have that

00:41:35.849 --> 00:41:38.269
happen. And they skirt around that. Now, it's

00:41:38.269 --> 00:41:41.170
still all said it said without being said. Right.

00:41:41.250 --> 00:41:43.969
It's clear what Will is saying, but they do skate

00:41:43.969 --> 00:41:47.369
saying the word gay. And there is this idea that.

00:41:47.920 --> 00:41:51.219
TV shows and movies want to be able to express

00:41:51.219 --> 00:41:54.139
it without specifically naming it so that they

00:41:54.139 --> 00:41:56.780
can still have people who don't approve let their

00:41:56.780 --> 00:41:59.840
children watch because it's explainable in another

00:41:59.840 --> 00:42:01.699
way, shape, or form. I don't know if that's true.

00:42:01.739 --> 00:42:03.000
I don't know if that's the reason why it's done.

00:42:03.159 --> 00:42:05.079
I don't know what Netflix is doing. That's just

00:42:05.079 --> 00:42:07.639
speculation. But I am a little bit disappointed

00:42:07.639 --> 00:42:12.320
that they fall into this line of other tv show

00:42:12.320 --> 00:42:15.139
most famously off the top of my head is all the

00:42:15.139 --> 00:42:16.940
grindelwald dumbledore stuff in the fantastic

00:42:16.940 --> 00:42:20.119
beast series where they like just flat out would

00:42:20.119 --> 00:42:23.440
refuse to say the word in any way shape or form

00:42:23.440 --> 00:42:26.579
um and and so what that makes is stranger things

00:42:26.579 --> 00:42:29.840
it just becomes part of that it's like not making

00:42:29.840 --> 00:42:31.639
the bechdel test which obviously stranger things

00:42:31.639 --> 00:42:34.639
passes with flying colors but like Dark Knight

00:42:34.639 --> 00:42:36.400
doesn't pass the Bechdel test and that sucks.

00:42:36.659 --> 00:42:39.199
And I can be as complaining about that as I can

00:42:39.199 --> 00:42:40.739
complain about the fact that Stranger Things

00:42:40.739 --> 00:42:43.320
falls into this category of just not being able

00:42:43.320 --> 00:42:46.079
to say a simple word. Last big reaction of episode

00:42:46.079 --> 00:42:49.539
seven. I had a big reaction when eight gets Eleven

00:42:49.539 --> 00:42:51.840
to agree to essentially kill herself by remaining

00:42:51.840 --> 00:42:54.639
behind. And there's a lot of stuff that we're

00:42:54.639 --> 00:42:56.059
going to talk about about eight in a second.

00:42:56.199 --> 00:43:00.519
But Eleven nodding to eight at the very end there

00:43:00.519 --> 00:43:02.579
to indicate, yep, all right, fine. We'll do your

00:43:02.579 --> 00:43:05.909
plan. because of this whole the u .s government

00:43:05.909 --> 00:43:08.190
is just going to try to continue to make more

00:43:08.190 --> 00:43:11.329
and more vechnas and we can't let that happen

00:43:11.329 --> 00:43:15.849
it's a problem uh and and everyone's saying there's

00:43:15.849 --> 00:43:17.650
there's got to be a different way there's there's

00:43:17.650 --> 00:43:19.230
another way to do this like l is looking for

00:43:19.230 --> 00:43:22.070
it mike's looking for it and that was a huge

00:43:22.070 --> 00:43:26.630
reaction for me and for whatever reason i don't

00:43:26.630 --> 00:43:29.570
know why i feel this way but there's still just

00:43:29.570 --> 00:43:33.210
enough ambiguity around dr k's character because

00:43:33.210 --> 00:43:35.550
she has not been able to talk directly with 11

00:43:35.550 --> 00:43:39.210
where i understand that she's seeking 11 with

00:43:39.210 --> 00:43:41.489
like a heat seeking missile right that whole

00:43:41.489 --> 00:43:44.050
conversation with her and the soldier is very

00:43:44.050 --> 00:43:46.769
much like oh my god she really wants 11 super

00:43:46.769 --> 00:43:49.769
bad but i i still feels like there's enough room

00:43:49.769 --> 00:43:51.489
to be like okay so she's doing everything in

00:43:51.489 --> 00:43:54.510
her power just to get to her but i for whatever

00:43:54.510 --> 00:43:57.110
reason i feel like she still might be like the

00:43:57.110 --> 00:44:00.940
person that's creating the out 411 the other

00:44:00.940 --> 00:44:02.840
way so that she doesn't have to kill herself.

00:44:03.019 --> 00:44:08.960
We'll see. No, I literally while watching episode

00:44:08.960 --> 00:44:13.059
seven and just seeing Kay's twisted up face,

00:44:13.400 --> 00:44:19.880
just getting all of her manpower into get her

00:44:19.880 --> 00:44:25.699
and all of this and how dedicated she is to the

00:44:25.699 --> 00:44:29.920
evil that she is doing. I literally, while washing,

00:44:30.139 --> 00:44:33.739
kind of laughed and scoffed. And my husband went,

00:44:33.840 --> 00:44:35.780
what? What's going on? He doesn't watch the show.

00:44:35.840 --> 00:44:38.920
But he was like, what? I don't understand. Why

00:44:38.920 --> 00:44:40.760
are you laughing? It doesn't seem like it's a

00:44:40.760 --> 00:44:43.340
funny part. And I go, Sam thinks that this person

00:44:43.340 --> 00:44:47.820
might end up not being terrible. We'll see. I

00:44:47.820 --> 00:44:50.780
might be horribly wrong on this. I think you're

00:44:50.780 --> 00:44:53.960
horribly wrong. I do not see a way that she can

00:44:53.960 --> 00:44:57.849
have any. Any turnaround. She's so committed.

00:44:58.409 --> 00:45:02.650
Unless everything is a lie. And that would suck.

00:45:02.889 --> 00:45:06.630
That everything is a lie would kind of be unfortunate,

00:45:06.929 --> 00:45:10.050
I will say. Because I don't care for that type

00:45:10.050 --> 00:45:12.650
of plot twist. Storytelling. Yeah, same. Yeah.

00:45:14.110 --> 00:45:21.130
But I have a theory about 8 getting 11 to agree

00:45:21.130 --> 00:45:25.639
here. Will is going with them now. Yeah. And

00:45:25.639 --> 00:45:30.199
the plan was decided before Will was coming along.

00:45:31.460 --> 00:45:35.860
And I think that Will is going to sacrifice himself

00:45:35.860 --> 00:45:39.539
for Elle because he wants to see the others happy,

00:45:39.719 --> 00:45:42.619
especially Mike, even though he's realized that,

00:45:42.659 --> 00:45:46.480
you know, Mike was just his Tammy. But I think

00:45:46.480 --> 00:45:51.079
that his love of his friends and everyone else,

00:45:51.139 --> 00:45:56.280
including Elle herself. is going to make it so

00:45:56.280 --> 00:45:59.659
that he's he will realize what eight is doing

00:45:59.659 --> 00:46:03.940
and will put himself in the middle how does i

00:46:03.940 --> 00:46:06.440
just my my big question around this theory is

00:46:06.440 --> 00:46:10.000
what changes l's mind because the whole thing

00:46:10.000 --> 00:46:13.219
is like but like will can't take vechna's blood

00:46:13.219 --> 00:46:15.980
out of her what changes her mind in terms of

00:46:15.980 --> 00:46:19.360
oh okay actually it's safe for me to live i mean

00:46:19.360 --> 00:46:22.329
she's disappeared before Yeah, okay. So you think

00:46:22.329 --> 00:46:24.170
she'll just go back to, actually, there's still

00:46:24.170 --> 00:46:26.610
ways for me to keep fighting. Yeah, I think that

00:46:26.610 --> 00:46:32.269
there are other ways. They have the ability to

00:46:32.269 --> 00:46:36.429
change her name, change her face, whatever, and

00:46:36.429 --> 00:46:40.849
go somewhere else completely unrelated to Hawkins,

00:46:41.010 --> 00:46:45.369
just like Mike wants, and they can go disappear.

00:46:45.869 --> 00:46:48.389
Yeah. Alright, I like the theory. I can be down

00:46:48.389 --> 00:46:52.650
with it. Question for you, Sierra. Yes. Do these

00:46:52.650 --> 00:46:57.070
episodes fulfill what you were expecting? I'll

00:46:57.070 --> 00:47:00.989
lead with this. Duffer Brothers said it's going

00:47:00.989 --> 00:47:05.110
to be a dark Christmas. And that was true from

00:47:05.110 --> 00:47:09.670
how they lit the scenes. It was literally dark.

00:47:10.289 --> 00:47:13.670
Yeah. But I don't think it was actually that

00:47:13.670 --> 00:47:20.579
dark. No. I don't think so at all. It's a little

00:47:20.579 --> 00:47:23.599
frustrating. We've talked about before the lack

00:47:23.599 --> 00:47:27.980
of death and how these stakes are so high and

00:47:27.980 --> 00:47:31.000
yet everybody keeps making it out by some miracle,

00:47:31.159 --> 00:47:35.260
some sudden change of fate. Steve doesn't get

00:47:35.260 --> 00:47:38.039
on the ladder. Nancy and Jonathan with the power

00:47:38.039 --> 00:47:45.780
of self -actualization stop the goo. You know,

00:47:45.820 --> 00:47:48.639
all of these different ways that everybody keeps

00:47:48.639 --> 00:47:53.239
surviving miraculously. And I feel like they

00:47:53.239 --> 00:47:56.460
can't then just turn around and get rid of characters.

00:47:56.639 --> 00:47:59.219
And Duffer Brothers have even come out and said,

00:47:59.280 --> 00:48:01.219
this isn't Game of Thrones. There's not going

00:48:01.219 --> 00:48:05.719
to be a red wedding scene. But nobody's asking

00:48:05.719 --> 00:48:08.840
for a red wedding scene. Well, but that was the

00:48:08.840 --> 00:48:11.159
only way that I was thinking they were even going

00:48:11.159 --> 00:48:13.820
to have the level of devastation that everybody

00:48:13.820 --> 00:48:17.239
keeps promising. Yeah. Noah Schnapp had come

00:48:17.239 --> 00:48:20.400
out and said, everybody's going to be devastated.

00:48:20.599 --> 00:48:24.300
You know, be prepared. Have your tissues at the

00:48:24.300 --> 00:48:28.039
ready. You know, it's going to be so sad. And

00:48:28.039 --> 00:48:30.380
other people have stated this as well of how

00:48:30.380 --> 00:48:32.480
you should prepare for the season finale. And

00:48:32.480 --> 00:48:34.500
I'm going. Well, the only way we're going to

00:48:34.500 --> 00:48:37.900
get that level of devastation is a Red Wedding

00:48:37.900 --> 00:48:41.980
-esque massacre, essentially, of a whole bunch

00:48:41.980 --> 00:48:44.139
of characters dying at once. And it just does

00:48:44.139 --> 00:48:46.639
not seem like it's going to happen. So I don't

00:48:46.639 --> 00:48:52.840
understand. Maybe it's because, for me, there

00:48:52.840 --> 00:48:58.840
isn't one or two characters that matter enough

00:48:58.840 --> 00:49:03.650
that it would be... that devastating if just

00:49:03.650 --> 00:49:08.809
one or two died i so when noah said that initially

00:49:08.809 --> 00:49:13.250
i did think immediately emotionally it's going

00:49:13.250 --> 00:49:15.969
to be difficult for the characters not necessarily

00:49:15.969 --> 00:49:18.409
death wise and i think that's because we're at

00:49:18.409 --> 00:49:21.030
least going to get one character left behind

00:49:21.030 --> 00:49:25.050
in in dimension x and the duffer brother said

00:49:25.050 --> 00:49:27.690
you know we'll see something in terms of where

00:49:27.690 --> 00:49:30.869
a spinoff could go it may be that Will ends up

00:49:30.869 --> 00:49:32.690
staying behind and becomes sort of the next Henry

00:49:32.690 --> 00:49:34.869
Creel, but they're able to shut it off for now.

00:49:35.190 --> 00:49:39.250
It may be that anybody that has sort of Vecna's

00:49:39.250 --> 00:49:41.989
touch in them has to stay behind. All the children,

00:49:42.230 --> 00:49:46.829
Elle, Will, and Eight. We'll see. But I do feel

00:49:46.829 --> 00:49:49.989
like, in my head, it's Will. Will's going to

00:49:49.989 --> 00:49:51.909
be the one left behind. And that's that sort

00:49:51.909 --> 00:49:55.150
of idea of, you know, you guys saved me, but

00:49:55.150 --> 00:49:58.340
it was... I was sort of marked for death ever

00:49:58.340 --> 00:50:01.000
since Beckner came to get me. That sort of emotional

00:50:01.000 --> 00:50:04.000
terribleness is right there. And so you can have

00:50:04.000 --> 00:50:07.659
that Mike -Will scene that's very Sam Frodo centered,

00:50:07.800 --> 00:50:09.780
where it was like, yes, we saved it, but not

00:50:09.780 --> 00:50:13.300
for me. And so that reference is then actually

00:50:13.300 --> 00:50:16.980
not an Elle and Mike reference, but a Will and

00:50:16.980 --> 00:50:19.559
Mike reference, which I think makes sense, especially

00:50:19.559 --> 00:50:21.360
because those two definitely feel the most Sam

00:50:21.360 --> 00:50:25.679
Frodo -esque, where Will is for sure. Frodo.

00:50:25.800 --> 00:50:30.219
And Sam is definitely Mike in a weird way. So

00:50:30.219 --> 00:50:32.239
I think that we're talking about emotional disturbance.

00:50:32.380 --> 00:50:36.000
If they killed Dustin, I would genuinely be devastated

00:50:36.000 --> 00:50:39.599
at this point. I just don't think that there's

00:50:39.599 --> 00:50:42.280
enough options of... Again, there's been too

00:50:42.280 --> 00:50:46.579
many close calls that it would feel... as if

00:50:46.579 --> 00:50:49.300
those moments were cheapened if they then turned

00:50:49.300 --> 00:50:51.559
around and killed them off in the finale i'm

00:50:51.559 --> 00:50:53.460
now back to thinking that hopper might actually

00:50:53.460 --> 00:50:55.820
be killed off especially there's this drawing

00:50:55.820 --> 00:50:57.440
that i'm going to talk about when we talk about

00:50:57.440 --> 00:50:59.780
the cali section that shows like it says it was

00:50:59.780 --> 00:51:01.860
done by the duffer brothers and it says hopper's

00:51:01.860 --> 00:51:04.079
chopper and i'm like if he's going to be in the

00:51:04.079 --> 00:51:07.780
hop like chopper he might actually be dying like

00:51:07.780 --> 00:51:11.599
that's a stupid plan but i i'm kind of idea i'm

00:51:11.599 --> 00:51:14.679
kind of of the idea that hopper May die, but

00:51:14.679 --> 00:51:17.900
I'm like, what's the point of season three? Yeah.

00:51:18.280 --> 00:51:20.340
What's the point of Joyce dying at this point?

00:51:20.800 --> 00:51:23.980
Like, I was genuinely concerned for Robin in

00:51:23.980 --> 00:51:26.840
the laundry room. I was concerned for Max at

00:51:26.840 --> 00:51:29.780
the end of episode six, being like, man, Vecta

00:51:29.780 --> 00:51:32.199
might come in here and just wreck her right before

00:51:32.199 --> 00:51:36.460
she gets to the exit. Especially because she'd

00:51:36.460 --> 00:51:38.239
just shown Holly how to get out, and so now Holly

00:51:38.239 --> 00:51:41.230
can tell everybody else how to get out. And so

00:51:41.230 --> 00:51:44.650
Max's sort of arc may be over, especially with

00:51:44.650 --> 00:51:47.750
Mike and Will having just had the conversation

00:51:47.750 --> 00:51:51.510
where Mike is like, this is your, mine, Lucas,

00:51:51.650 --> 00:51:54.010
Dustin's, and Elle's story. And he leaves out

00:51:54.010 --> 00:51:58.150
Max. And I was like, oh, no. But now that they

00:51:58.150 --> 00:51:59.989
haven't done any of that, I'm like, I just don't

00:51:59.989 --> 00:52:03.090
think the finale is going to be like Rogue One.

00:52:03.630 --> 00:52:06.510
Where they're like, and then Chirrut dies, and

00:52:06.510 --> 00:52:09.730
then Bodhi dies. Spoilers for Rogue One. Sorry,

00:52:09.809 --> 00:52:13.650
spoilers for Rogue One. And then everybody dies,

00:52:13.949 --> 00:52:15.630
you know? I just don't think that they're going

00:52:15.630 --> 00:52:19.349
to do that necessarily. Which feels very 80s

00:52:19.349 --> 00:52:21.150
movie. If you go back and you watch a lot of

00:52:21.150 --> 00:52:22.849
fandom 80s movies, a lot of science fiction,

00:52:23.030 --> 00:52:27.610
think about Luke, Leia, Chewie, R2, and C -3PO

00:52:27.610 --> 00:52:31.400
all make it out. Nobody dies. Just really Ben

00:52:31.400 --> 00:52:35.719
Kenobi did in the first one. And so that does

00:52:35.719 --> 00:52:37.639
feel very appropriate for like an 80s tribute.

00:52:37.960 --> 00:52:41.260
But all of these quotes have gotten you and I

00:52:41.260 --> 00:52:43.940
very like, oh no. And so I thought there was

00:52:43.940 --> 00:52:46.300
going to be a slower progression of death throughout

00:52:46.300 --> 00:52:48.719
the whole thing. And now I'm very much like,

00:52:48.840 --> 00:52:51.780
I think maybe a character outside of eight will

00:52:51.780 --> 00:52:55.019
die. Yeah. And like Vecna slash the mind player.

00:52:55.159 --> 00:53:02.880
Well, yeah. Very frustrating. Well, I have a

00:53:02.880 --> 00:53:06.900
new category that is yet to be named. However,

00:53:07.019 --> 00:53:10.519
we did talk a lot in the last episode about references

00:53:10.519 --> 00:53:15.420
that have been made throughout the season so

00:53:15.420 --> 00:53:18.519
far. And so today we're just going to do the

00:53:18.519 --> 00:53:24.039
best one. What is the best reference of these

00:53:24.039 --> 00:53:26.500
episodes? Shall we say it on the count of three?

00:53:26.699 --> 00:53:29.559
Yeah, you and I wrote the same one. Yes, we did.

00:53:31.139 --> 00:53:38.440
One, two, three. Melon. Melon. If you guys don't

00:53:38.440 --> 00:53:41.219
know what that is, that is the elf word for friend

00:53:41.219 --> 00:53:44.440
that Gandalf says to open up the minds of Moria

00:53:44.440 --> 00:53:46.539
in Lord of the Rings, The Fellowship of the Ring.

00:53:47.519 --> 00:53:51.920
And in the movie, the adaptation. And Mr. Clark.

00:53:53.079 --> 00:53:59.690
Mr. Clark says it. It's incredible. It's so good.

00:54:01.409 --> 00:54:06.769
It's so fantastic. We have one singular biggest

00:54:06.769 --> 00:54:09.989
question because there's only really one worth

00:54:09.989 --> 00:54:16.769
asking at this point. Who is Callie working for?

00:54:16.929 --> 00:54:20.170
It is an enormous question that has taken the

00:54:20.170 --> 00:54:27.400
fandom by storm. Yes. So, my theory. Callie's

00:54:27.400 --> 00:54:30.320
working for the Mind Flayer itself. Mr. What's

00:54:30.320 --> 00:54:34.039
-It says that he has saved the children from

00:54:34.039 --> 00:54:37.519
the Black One, which is obviously the Mind Flayer.

00:54:37.719 --> 00:54:43.039
Right. However, the name Callie in Hindi is literally

00:54:43.039 --> 00:54:49.380
the Black One. Coincidence? Me thinks not. Me

00:54:49.380 --> 00:54:52.760
thinks not. So I think she's been working for

00:54:52.760 --> 00:54:57.340
the mind player directly. However, where I'm

00:54:57.340 --> 00:55:02.440
slightly confused is that her blood did not work

00:55:02.440 --> 00:55:07.300
on the pregnant women. So she says, again, this

00:55:07.300 --> 00:55:09.699
is all through the lens of eight. How much can

00:55:09.699 --> 00:55:12.000
she be trusted on this story that she told about

00:55:12.000 --> 00:55:15.380
how she attempted this grand escape and she was.

00:55:15.760 --> 00:55:20.840
10 meters from the end and etc she saw these

00:55:20.840 --> 00:55:23.239
pregnant women who were all dying because they

00:55:23.239 --> 00:55:27.800
had her blood and explains that this is why dr

00:55:27.800 --> 00:55:32.980
k wants l so that's why she's saying well you

00:55:32.980 --> 00:55:36.679
and i have to die because dr k wants your blood

00:55:36.679 --> 00:55:39.079
and she'll just hook you up like she hooked me

00:55:39.079 --> 00:55:42.579
up but it's only gonna work because you're the

00:55:42.579 --> 00:55:47.820
only one like henry However, am I misremembering?

00:55:47.820 --> 00:55:52.099
Didn't all the kids get Henry's blood? So Callie

00:55:52.099 --> 00:55:56.000
has the same blood that Elle does. Okay. Question

00:55:56.000 --> 00:56:00.900
mark. So that's my thing is technically if Callie's

00:56:00.900 --> 00:56:03.159
blood is doing these to the women, then Elle's

00:56:03.159 --> 00:56:05.199
blood should also do it because they are not

00:56:05.199 --> 00:56:08.719
directly from the mind flayer. And Callie even

00:56:08.719 --> 00:56:12.949
says this. She even says that. Henry's blood

00:56:12.949 --> 00:56:16.369
only worked because he got the powers directly,

00:56:16.590 --> 00:56:21.070
and they're basically descendants of him and

00:56:21.070 --> 00:56:24.829
his blood, and so that generational gap makes

00:56:24.829 --> 00:56:27.010
it so that it doesn't work for the next generation.

00:56:27.469 --> 00:56:30.969
So why would L be any different? And she even

00:56:30.969 --> 00:56:33.710
says, like, there's only been one that was any

00:56:33.710 --> 00:56:37.329
different. Also, also, she hasn't been fully

00:56:37.329 --> 00:56:40.050
taken over directly by the Mind Flayer, otherwise

00:56:40.050 --> 00:56:45.679
her blood would work. Because Henry's does. So

00:56:45.679 --> 00:56:48.360
there's holes in her story, first of all. Second

00:56:48.360 --> 00:56:50.260
of all, yes, she's working directly for the mind

00:56:50.260 --> 00:56:55.719
player. Also, there's this other little part

00:56:55.719 --> 00:56:58.760
of it, which is just straight manipulation. Obviously,

00:56:58.820 --> 00:57:03.579
she's manipulating Elle. And the key phrase that

00:57:03.579 --> 00:57:07.739
she uses is she calls Henry brother. Yeah. Well,

00:57:07.820 --> 00:57:11.059
she calls Elle sister. But Elle started the sister

00:57:11.059 --> 00:57:14.059
thing. Right. Elle's the one who called Callie

00:57:14.059 --> 00:57:16.400
sister first. And we know if we know anything

00:57:16.400 --> 00:57:19.119
about Callie, it's that Callie is very self absorbed

00:57:19.119 --> 00:57:22.820
in what she thinks is right and what she wants

00:57:22.820 --> 00:57:25.139
to do. And it's all about her and what she can

00:57:25.139 --> 00:57:30.519
do for herself. And so her like familial connection

00:57:30.519 --> 00:57:35.139
with Elle and then like having this weird familial

00:57:35.139 --> 00:57:38.880
connection with Henry does feel kind of odd,

00:57:38.980 --> 00:57:42.409
especially since. If they are sisters because

00:57:42.409 --> 00:57:46.150
they got Henry's blood, wouldn't that kind of

00:57:46.150 --> 00:57:49.610
be like weirdly their dad? Because they stem

00:57:49.610 --> 00:57:52.269
from him. So it wouldn't really be brother because

00:57:52.269 --> 00:57:54.590
it's not the same relationship. Like two would

00:57:54.590 --> 00:57:59.969
have been their brother, but not one. I have

00:57:59.969 --> 00:58:02.989
many thoughts. First of all, if there isn't something

00:58:02.989 --> 00:58:05.230
shady going on and this is just a weird acting

00:58:05.230 --> 00:58:07.889
thing. Oh my gosh. That the actress was given

00:58:07.889 --> 00:58:10.730
bad direction on, I'm going to be furious. Furious.

00:58:10.949 --> 00:58:14.530
Because I think there's just so much about 8's

00:58:14.530 --> 00:58:16.849
character. So I'm going to go over a couple of

00:58:16.849 --> 00:58:18.010
things that I already wrote down, and then I'm

00:58:18.010 --> 00:58:19.210
going to walk you through the thoughts that I've

00:58:19.210 --> 00:58:20.630
been having since you've been talking to me.

00:58:20.829 --> 00:58:23.429
Yes, please do. One of the theories that I have

00:58:23.429 --> 00:58:25.409
is that I think this is a fairly clear reference

00:58:25.409 --> 00:58:29.929
to the Raven Queen. The Raven Queen was an interloper

00:58:29.929 --> 00:58:33.809
goddess of death and fate in D &D. And also Winter

00:58:33.809 --> 00:58:36.449
from the word of Nerath. She was also a mysterious

00:58:36.449 --> 00:58:40.869
entity from the Shadowfell. Now, there's this

00:58:40.869 --> 00:58:44.570
lovely little Stranger Things 5 video on YouTube.

00:58:45.190 --> 00:58:47.849
That's legit. From the official Stranger Things

00:58:47.849 --> 00:58:51.630
account. And at this 6 minute, 23 minute mark,

00:58:51.690 --> 00:58:54.570
there's a drawing by the Duffer Brothers of the

00:58:54.570 --> 00:58:57.670
wormhole. They label, first of all, I think it's

00:58:57.670 --> 00:59:00.079
really funny, they label the mind flayers. the

00:59:00.079 --> 00:59:01.900
gross mind flayer and i was like the grossness

00:59:01.900 --> 00:59:09.659
it's canon yes the grossness itself for those

00:59:09.659 --> 00:59:10.980
of you who have not been listening to the whole

00:59:10.980 --> 00:59:14.159
pod sierra and i referred to seasons three mind

00:59:14.159 --> 00:59:18.539
flayer as the grossness because of its meat because

00:59:18.539 --> 00:59:22.900
of its disgustingness it's gross it's gross um

00:59:22.900 --> 00:59:26.519
but they refer to the the land that it comes

00:59:26.519 --> 00:59:30.280
in as shadow fell So, the Raven Queen is a character

00:59:30.280 --> 00:59:34.679
that's there, called, you know, and could be

00:59:34.679 --> 00:59:40.440
Callie. If not the Raven Queen, there is a literal

00:59:40.440 --> 00:59:45.780
D &D person called Callie. Callie was a strange,

00:59:45.800 --> 00:59:48.119
terrible, interlitterate goddess of both creation

00:59:48.119 --> 00:59:51.780
and destruction. How did we miss this? I feel

00:59:51.780 --> 00:59:58.400
stupid. I feel like so many people have been

00:59:58.400 --> 01:00:01.079
like, D &D this, D &D that. And here's this other

01:00:01.079 --> 01:00:03.420
D &D thing. And like, just because Callie hasn't

01:00:03.420 --> 01:00:06.219
been around since season two, which was so long

01:00:06.219 --> 01:00:09.059
ago, it wasn't really prevalent. And now I'm

01:00:09.059 --> 01:00:12.159
like, oh my goodness gracious. And you already

01:00:12.159 --> 01:00:14.639
touched upon the Hindi and Sanskrit stuff. So

01:00:14.639 --> 01:00:17.800
her numbers, her powers are just so different.

01:00:18.139 --> 01:00:22.079
Really? Yeah. From numbers two through 17, obviously

01:00:22.079 --> 01:00:24.849
minus eight. They're all much more in the way

01:00:24.849 --> 01:00:27.230
that Eleven's powers work, which is forceful

01:00:27.230 --> 01:00:31.010
telekinesis. Vecna's is both forceful telekinesis

01:00:31.010 --> 01:00:35.210
and mind stuff. So there's room there that that

01:00:35.210 --> 01:00:38.730
could be Callie's deal. However, Callie, taken

01:00:38.730 --> 01:00:42.349
from London, not taken from Hawkins. Eight is

01:00:42.349 --> 01:00:44.489
literally delivered by Dr. Brenner at the beginning

01:00:44.489 --> 01:00:46.909
of the book, Suspicious Minds, into Hawkins'

01:00:47.030 --> 01:00:49.670
lab. So by the time that she's coming in, being

01:00:49.670 --> 01:00:52.469
brought into the program, she's... She doesn't

01:00:52.469 --> 01:00:55.730
have any blood. And Eleven gets Henry's blood

01:00:55.730 --> 01:00:58.329
through a blood transfusion while pregnant. So

01:00:58.329 --> 01:01:01.329
there's some questions there as to like, wait

01:01:01.329 --> 01:01:03.670
a second. So Callie's brought into the program,

01:01:03.789 --> 01:01:07.130
but her mom wasn't pregnant with a blood transfusion.

01:01:07.730 --> 01:01:10.570
So then is she given the blood transfusion directly?

01:01:10.809 --> 01:01:13.030
I don't think so. So this makes me think that

01:01:13.030 --> 01:01:17.650
actually Eight is not like, is not derived from

01:01:17.650 --> 01:01:22.719
Vecna, but was taken over in London. by the Mind

01:01:22.719 --> 01:01:25.719
Flayer directly. And this is why their powers

01:01:25.719 --> 01:01:27.280
are a little different. There's going to be different

01:01:27.280 --> 01:01:30.579
variants for different humans in what their brains

01:01:30.579 --> 01:01:33.139
are capable of producing, depending on who you're

01:01:33.139 --> 01:01:37.099
talking to. And I think that she's, whether in

01:01:37.099 --> 01:01:39.460
Raven Queen form or whatever, is being directly

01:01:39.460 --> 01:01:42.239
controlled. One of the other big things that

01:01:42.239 --> 01:01:43.800
makes me think this is the way that she's speaking.

01:01:44.260 --> 01:01:47.500
She is not speaking in her accent. She does none

01:01:47.500 --> 01:01:49.719
of her old expectations. Now, it could just be

01:01:49.719 --> 01:01:52.989
that she's like, recovering from being in torture

01:01:52.989 --> 01:01:56.010
for forever. And her personality has just been

01:01:56.010 --> 01:01:58.650
completely changed. I don't think so. It's been

01:01:58.650 --> 01:02:01.829
a few years. Right. But I don't think so. I think

01:02:01.829 --> 01:02:03.929
it's more like when Will is speaking through

01:02:03.929 --> 01:02:06.809
Vecna and it sounds a little bit more like Will,

01:02:06.929 --> 01:02:10.429
this is the mind flayer speaking through Callie.

01:02:10.690 --> 01:02:15.090
And I think that the plan really is, you know,

01:02:15.110 --> 01:02:17.989
I've got one super powerful telekinetic person

01:02:17.989 --> 01:02:21.539
in Henry Creel. That I flayed from back when

01:02:21.539 --> 01:02:26.119
he was, you know, 14 in 1959. I'm going to convince

01:02:26.119 --> 01:02:30.480
Eleven to stay behind because she is not flayed.

01:02:30.619 --> 01:02:33.820
Mm -hmm. I think this is the Mind Flayer attempting

01:02:33.820 --> 01:02:38.320
to lure Eleven into its grasp so that it can

01:02:38.320 --> 01:02:42.500
take over her. Mm -hmm. And have two hands, so

01:02:42.500 --> 01:02:46.699
to speak. Yes, definitely. So that's my theory.

01:02:47.139 --> 01:02:51.570
One... Additional little note on why we can figure

01:02:51.570 --> 01:02:55.730
out that something is highly suspicious about

01:02:55.730 --> 01:02:59.610
Callie. She knows everything. She knows about

01:02:59.610 --> 01:03:03.570
what and Henry and all of those details and the

01:03:03.570 --> 01:03:07.429
massacre and everything when she was not there.

01:03:07.929 --> 01:03:11.570
So how does she know everything? How does she

01:03:11.570 --> 01:03:15.590
know that L pushed him through? How does she

01:03:15.590 --> 01:03:19.219
know? All of this stuff. She shouldn't be able

01:03:19.219 --> 01:03:23.260
to. That was. There is nobody there. Who. There's

01:03:23.260 --> 01:03:25.380
nobody that she has come across. Who could tell

01:03:25.380 --> 01:03:28.519
her all this information. Okay. So. These are

01:03:28.519 --> 01:03:30.099
phenomenal point. This is actually something

01:03:30.099 --> 01:03:33.460
that you and I chatted about. But one of the

01:03:33.460 --> 01:03:34.880
very few things that we chatted about in the

01:03:34.880 --> 01:03:37.679
group text. Was just being like. How does she

01:03:37.679 --> 01:03:39.719
know everything? Now I think that she's lying

01:03:39.719 --> 01:03:44.019
about this entire story. I think. That. Dr. K

01:03:44.019 --> 01:03:47.019
and company. found her and was able to subdue

01:03:47.019 --> 01:03:50.059
her in the upside down. And we're keeping her

01:03:50.059 --> 01:03:52.860
there as prisoner, not as blood transfusion packet.

01:03:53.079 --> 01:03:56.900
I think that entire story is made up, which would

01:03:56.900 --> 01:03:59.820
help with my Dr. K is somewhat good theory, but

01:03:59.820 --> 01:04:02.840
also would help with that theory. I, I do. I

01:04:02.840 --> 01:04:07.159
also questioned when she said that awful noise

01:04:07.159 --> 01:04:11.679
of hers, pretty sure eight is the, is the noise.

01:04:11.840 --> 01:04:16.730
Yeah. She is the one creating... Her abilities

01:04:16.730 --> 01:04:20.150
create that sound. There's no way that there's...

01:04:20.150 --> 01:04:22.110
That's what I thought as well. Now, they're easier

01:04:22.110 --> 01:04:25.230
to say that they've created this mechanical thing

01:04:25.230 --> 01:04:29.710
that repels her specific sound. But I also thought

01:04:29.710 --> 01:04:34.070
it was her mind being used to amplify noise to

01:04:34.070 --> 01:04:38.650
stop Vecna and not necessarily Eleven. Because

01:04:38.650 --> 01:04:40.530
Dr. K is good and actually fighting the right

01:04:40.530 --> 01:04:51.630
fight. I will be so happy if I'm right. This

01:04:51.630 --> 01:04:53.230
has been the most victorious I will have felt.

01:04:54.230 --> 01:04:56.889
That's fair. I will allow you to be victorious

01:04:56.889 --> 01:05:00.130
if that does turn out to be so. I will wear a

01:05:00.130 --> 01:05:02.530
championship belt on every podcast from here

01:05:02.530 --> 01:05:06.929
on out if I'm right. Awesome. We're going to

01:05:06.929 --> 01:05:10.050
move now very rapidly into our last little section

01:05:10.050 --> 01:05:13.389
here. Our MVP conversation, which will be convoluted

01:05:13.389 --> 01:05:16.289
and confusing. So dust off that card deck and

01:05:16.289 --> 01:05:18.590
get ready to shuffle. It's our Joker category

01:05:18.590 --> 01:05:22.469
for who is the MVP of these couple of episodes.

01:05:22.690 --> 01:05:24.989
Now, the reason why I say confusing and convoluted

01:05:24.989 --> 01:05:27.269
is because this is like a Dragon Age where we're

01:05:27.269 --> 01:05:29.630
getting everybody's sort of personal notes out

01:05:29.630 --> 01:05:31.989
of the way. But there's no main character that

01:05:31.989 --> 01:05:33.769
is being controlled by a person to go around

01:05:33.769 --> 01:05:37.849
to each person to do this. So, like, is it Mr.

01:05:38.030 --> 01:05:40.619
Clark again? Is it Erica? Is it Lucas? Is it

01:05:40.619 --> 01:05:42.960
Dustin? Is it Elle? Is it Mike? Is it Steve?

01:05:43.300 --> 01:05:46.119
I will tell you, it is not Hopper 8, Joyce, Murray,

01:05:46.300 --> 01:05:51.340
Robin, or Will. But Sierra, can you read us through

01:05:51.340 --> 01:05:55.539
who have been our MVPs so far? Yes, I certainly

01:05:55.539 --> 01:06:00.300
can. I very much can. The current MVP standings.

01:06:00.480 --> 01:06:05.880
Everybody gets one. Season one, we had Hopper

01:06:05.880 --> 01:06:10.780
11 and Mr. Clark. Season two, we had Nancy, Bob,

01:06:11.159 --> 01:06:14.460
and Steve. Okay, good. Season three, we had the

01:06:14.460 --> 01:06:18.340
Mind Flayer, Alexi, and Joyce. But that's really

01:06:18.340 --> 01:06:20.760
a Billy Mind Flayer award. Let's be clear. Yes,

01:06:20.800 --> 01:06:24.760
a Billy Mind Flayer combo. Yeah, for sure. And

01:06:24.760 --> 01:06:27.980
season four, we had Robin, Dustin, and Lucas.

01:06:28.480 --> 01:06:32.079
Okay, and then Will last episode. Yes, and then

01:06:32.079 --> 01:06:34.880
Will in the last episode. Okay, so Robin, Dustin,

01:06:35.000 --> 01:06:40.829
and Lucas. Man. Okay. So it is interesting here.

01:06:40.909 --> 01:06:43.389
Mr. Clark coming in to find Dustin at the last

01:06:43.389 --> 01:06:45.429
second is another great pound for pound argument.

01:06:45.610 --> 01:06:48.010
I think he's in this episode just a little too

01:06:48.010 --> 01:06:50.809
much to actually come through on the pound for

01:06:50.809 --> 01:06:52.989
pound like he did in season one. Because now

01:06:52.989 --> 01:06:55.769
he's kind of part of the main team. Yeah. And

01:06:55.769 --> 01:06:58.349
that makes me be like, okay, so he's been in

01:06:58.349 --> 01:07:00.409
enough where he's like having reactions and it's

01:07:00.409 --> 01:07:04.250
not just essential information. Right. Erica

01:07:04.250 --> 01:07:07.559
has not won yet. Erica hasn't really had an opportunity

01:07:07.559 --> 01:07:10.940
to win yet. And Erica's plan to use the telemetry

01:07:10.940 --> 01:07:13.239
tracker, which is basically to just define Mr.

01:07:13.380 --> 01:07:17.019
Clark, maybe too many degrees removed to actually

01:07:17.019 --> 01:07:19.800
get her to win. We'll swing back to Lucas in

01:07:19.800 --> 01:07:24.039
a second. Elle rescues Will and saves Hopper

01:07:24.039 --> 01:07:27.039
at eight. But also eight might be a bad guy,

01:07:27.159 --> 01:07:32.539
so not great. Yeah, but she doesn't know that.

01:07:32.820 --> 01:07:36.900
Yeah, that's true. I'm going to say Mike might,

01:07:36.920 --> 01:07:40.519
might be coming in, in this weird, like sort

01:07:40.519 --> 01:07:42.280
of Billy thing where it's like, man, Mike is

01:07:42.280 --> 01:07:45.199
a weird part of a good amount of stuff that gets

01:07:45.199 --> 01:07:48.460
moving. And he hasn't won at all, which like

01:07:48.460 --> 01:07:51.079
this season, I'm like, do we recognize his, his

01:07:51.079 --> 01:07:54.860
change for good? But I don't feel like these

01:07:54.860 --> 01:07:57.780
three episodes have really showed that. I feel

01:07:57.780 --> 01:07:59.559
like if you were going to give it to Mike, it

01:07:59.559 --> 01:08:01.940
would have been the last. Yeah. It should have

01:08:01.940 --> 01:08:05.139
been the last one. But Will, you know, had to

01:08:05.139 --> 01:08:07.559
have the trump card on that one. And so I think.

01:08:08.079 --> 01:08:11.599
Yeah, I really did. It really, it's difficult.

01:08:11.980 --> 01:08:14.619
It's very difficult. So, okay, here's the people

01:08:14.619 --> 01:08:16.239
that, the four people that I think are actually

01:08:16.239 --> 01:08:22.840
in the running. Okay. Lucas, Dustin, Steve. Pound

01:08:22.840 --> 01:08:29.000
for pound, Mrs. Wheeler. Ooh. I feel dirty even

01:08:29.000 --> 01:08:31.970
saying it. It feels wrong. It does, but also

01:08:31.970 --> 01:08:33.989
- But if we're doing a pound -for -pound argument,

01:08:34.329 --> 01:08:39.449
she's a pretty strong candidate. She saved four

01:08:39.449 --> 01:08:45.329
people with one action and was completely gung

01:08:45.329 --> 01:08:48.569
-ho to continue saving people. And, like, her

01:08:48.569 --> 01:08:51.770
entire thing was, I see lights. I'm gonna - I

01:08:51.770 --> 01:08:53.810
know something's wrong. I hear intercom. I'm

01:08:53.810 --> 01:08:57.729
going to go help. Here's - you know, this joke

01:08:57.729 --> 01:09:00.909
is really not - Rips out her own IV. And just

01:09:00.909 --> 01:09:05.489
goes. Okay, so those are my four. Mrs. Wheeler,

01:09:05.710 --> 01:09:08.350
I, like, really do not want to give it to her,

01:09:08.409 --> 01:09:10.729
I gotta say. I, like, don't want to do it, but

01:09:10.729 --> 01:09:13.109
I am. We gotta talk through the other three.

01:09:13.729 --> 01:09:21.170
Yes. Okay, so Lucas. On the Lucas note. He recognizes

01:09:21.170 --> 01:09:23.670
that he needs to go back to Max. He recognizes

01:09:23.670 --> 01:09:29.170
that she's, like, on the way. Does not turn off.

01:09:29.680 --> 01:09:33.920
The radio. Sparta kicks a Demogorgon. Sparta

01:09:33.920 --> 01:09:37.119
kicks a Demodog as well. Yeah. Yes. Sparta kicks

01:09:37.119 --> 01:09:40.779
a Demodog to get out of the elevator. I saw this

01:09:40.779 --> 01:09:44.779
one quick aside. I saw this one comment where

01:09:44.779 --> 01:09:48.239
they go, did I miss something? There was a Demodog

01:09:48.239 --> 01:09:51.640
running at. The elevator. And then it wasn't

01:09:51.640 --> 01:09:54.140
there anymore. Did I blink? What happened to

01:09:54.140 --> 01:09:59.539
the demodog? All the comments were just Lucas'

01:09:59.659 --> 01:10:02.880
foot happened. And then all the, this is Sparta

01:10:02.880 --> 01:10:06.439
me. It was so funny. I mean, they didn't show

01:10:06.439 --> 01:10:07.920
that because they didn't want to, like, it was

01:10:07.920 --> 01:10:10.000
going to be so expensive. And, like, it's an

01:10:10.000 --> 01:10:12.520
awkward angle to try and show exactly where he

01:10:12.520 --> 01:10:15.239
kicks. That's why it's not there. But, yeah,

01:10:15.340 --> 01:10:18.359
he does. And also, he comes up with a plan to,

01:10:18.399 --> 01:10:21.260
like, Frankenstein a dead Demogorgon. Mm -hmm.

01:10:22.340 --> 01:10:25.300
Like, he... He does a lot. Man, he really does.

01:10:25.399 --> 01:10:28.600
Okay, so, arguments for Steve, which kind of

01:10:28.600 --> 01:10:32.039
become an argument for Dustin, really. Mm -hmm.

01:10:32.630 --> 01:10:35.430
Steve is the one that gets Nancy, Jonathan, Dustin,

01:10:35.569 --> 01:10:40.970
and himself into the abyss. That is the last

01:10:40.970 --> 01:10:44.409
set. But he gets them there. And with that action,

01:10:44.569 --> 01:10:46.869
they're able to find out what the exotic matter

01:10:46.869 --> 01:10:49.350
is. They find out that it's a wormhole. They

01:10:49.350 --> 01:10:54.289
are able to see Holly and know that they gotta

01:10:54.289 --> 01:10:57.770
go up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up. Now, Steve

01:10:57.770 --> 01:10:59.550
doesn't actually do any of that information finding.

01:10:59.710 --> 01:11:02.710
But he is the one that gets them there. The person

01:11:02.710 --> 01:11:04.710
who actually finds out and is able to read and

01:11:04.710 --> 01:11:08.229
understand pretty instantaneously what this all

01:11:08.229 --> 01:11:13.250
is, is Dustin. Yeah. And boy, does he provide

01:11:13.250 --> 01:11:17.409
the essential information that they need to know.

01:11:17.829 --> 01:11:21.949
Yes, he is back to being the information giver

01:11:21.949 --> 01:11:26.970
of the group. He understands exotic matter. He

01:11:26.970 --> 01:11:29.149
understands the wormhole. He knows where they

01:11:29.149 --> 01:11:30.729
need to go and how this is all going to work.

01:11:31.130 --> 01:11:34.510
And he names it the Abyss. Like, we get this

01:11:34.510 --> 01:11:37.869
great name for what the Upside Down really is.

01:11:38.829 --> 01:11:41.310
And so I feel like Dustin's case is really strong.

01:11:41.390 --> 01:11:43.270
I feel like Lucas's case is really strong. And

01:11:43.270 --> 01:11:45.649
I feel like Mrs. Wheeler is really strong. Now,

01:11:45.710 --> 01:11:47.970
either way, for Lucas or Dustin, it would be

01:11:47.970 --> 01:11:51.069
the first double win. It would. It would be.

01:11:51.170 --> 01:11:55.270
Because we have taken away Robin. Yeah. Robin

01:11:55.270 --> 01:12:03.319
no longer has the second MVP. Oh, gosh. I want

01:12:03.319 --> 01:12:08.260
to give it to Lucas, and here's why. He does

01:12:08.260 --> 01:12:14.720
the heavy lifting of coming up with a plan from

01:12:14.720 --> 01:12:19.140
scratch. Yeah. He literally carries Max all around

01:12:19.140 --> 01:12:22.119
that hospital, running from Demodogs, fending

01:12:22.119 --> 01:12:27.560
them off. He then is there as emotional support

01:12:27.560 --> 01:12:32.529
for her, and... is there to be with her, does

01:12:32.529 --> 01:12:36.229
not turn off that radio, and then continues to

01:12:36.229 --> 01:12:39.529
be with her and stay with her when everybody

01:12:39.529 --> 01:12:42.350
else is going to do something else. They're the

01:12:42.350 --> 01:12:45.350
ones left behind, which, you know, I was kind

01:12:45.350 --> 01:12:47.529
of going, how are they going to get Max in a

01:12:47.529 --> 01:12:50.770
wheelchair down there? I was like, oh, they're

01:12:50.770 --> 01:12:53.750
not. Okay. And Lucas stays behind with her because

01:12:53.750 --> 01:12:56.989
he is so devoted to her. And so I think that

01:12:56.989 --> 01:13:00.739
that all of those things. are a little bit stronger

01:13:00.739 --> 01:13:05.600
than Dustin finding the information. He does

01:13:05.600 --> 01:13:07.880
interpret all the information as well. And he,

01:13:08.020 --> 01:13:12.399
but he doesn't, he's able to explain it to everyone

01:13:12.399 --> 01:13:16.520
later, but it doesn't, he, he isn't able to stop

01:13:16.520 --> 01:13:20.520
Nancy and Jonathan from messing with it. He isn't.

01:13:20.520 --> 01:13:22.460
Because of his own stupidity, him and Steve's

01:13:22.460 --> 01:13:26.039
stupidity. I will give you that. So he isn't

01:13:26.039 --> 01:13:29.810
able to stop that from happening. He, does get

01:13:29.810 --> 01:13:32.390
the information to everyone else to be able to

01:13:32.390 --> 01:13:35.310
figure out what's going on, but they would have

01:13:35.310 --> 01:13:38.789
figured out that they had to go up just from

01:13:38.789 --> 01:13:40.930
Holly falling, which didn't have anything to

01:13:40.930 --> 01:13:44.649
do with him. So I think, I think, but the information

01:13:44.649 --> 01:13:46.770
that he finds is very, very, very important and

01:13:46.770 --> 01:13:49.090
he does disseminate it to everyone. However,

01:13:49.329 --> 01:13:54.090
he's not coming up with information. Like it's

01:13:54.090 --> 01:13:57.409
not. I don't know. That's kind of my line in

01:13:57.409 --> 01:14:02.029
the sand there. I'm parsing. It's really frustrating

01:14:02.029 --> 01:14:06.390
because his information is much more vital to

01:14:06.390 --> 01:14:09.289
the final plan, which he doesn't come up with.

01:14:09.449 --> 01:14:12.229
Steve is the one who comes up with, let's just

01:14:12.229 --> 01:14:14.189
wait for it to get closer to us and then we can

01:14:14.189 --> 01:14:17.189
climb up. Steve's the one who does that. So that's,

01:14:17.189 --> 01:14:21.590
you know, not nothing in terms of Steve's candidacy.

01:14:22.280 --> 01:14:24.819
But Dustin's information about what this all

01:14:24.819 --> 01:14:29.579
is orients them to be able to create a last moment.

01:14:29.699 --> 01:14:32.659
Now, Max does bring in some information. Yeah.

01:14:32.720 --> 01:14:35.100
That is important in terms of when is this going

01:14:35.100 --> 01:14:38.060
to happen and why, what is Vecna doing? Right.

01:14:38.140 --> 01:14:41.159
In terms of making the two worlds meet. But,

01:14:41.239 --> 01:14:45.359
so, and Lucas does have the plan with the demo

01:14:45.359 --> 01:14:48.000
that gets Will trapped. So there is some stupidity

01:14:48.000 --> 01:14:51.109
there. True. Because creating the hive mind actually

01:14:51.109 --> 01:14:53.529
does not do them as much good as one would hope.

01:14:54.189 --> 01:14:58.010
And Mrs. Wheeler doesn't help at all with the

01:14:58.010 --> 01:15:00.170
abyss or the wormhole or any of the science behind

01:15:00.170 --> 01:15:03.550
it. She helps with the Max and Lucas part. And

01:15:03.550 --> 01:15:06.409
Vicky and Robin, yeah. And so I'm, yeah, I'm

01:15:06.409 --> 01:15:10.689
leaning more towards Dustin because the implications

01:15:10.689 --> 01:15:14.310
of his are much more impactful to orienting them

01:15:14.310 --> 01:15:18.109
to the final plan. That's a good point. versus

01:15:18.109 --> 01:15:21.270
Lucas and Maxis is a much more emotional connection

01:15:21.270 --> 01:15:24.909
for the storyteller, but ultimately just creates

01:15:24.909 --> 01:15:27.090
a little bit more of a sense of urgency and a

01:15:27.090 --> 01:15:31.470
bit more clarity as to what's happening. To be

01:15:31.470 --> 01:15:35.590
fair, if they didn't have Dustin's ideas, they

01:15:35.590 --> 01:15:37.550
know that they need to go up because Holly went

01:15:37.550 --> 01:15:41.010
up, but I think they would more likely do the

01:15:41.010 --> 01:15:43.819
chopper theory, not realizing. That this is a

01:15:43.819 --> 01:15:46.199
wormhole or what is even up there? Does he have

01:15:46.199 --> 01:15:49.039
like a castle in the sky? Bowser style, you know?

01:15:50.539 --> 01:15:54.380
This is true. Okay. That's not to say that Lucas's

01:15:54.380 --> 01:15:56.680
case isn't, I think they're just as strong. I

01:15:56.680 --> 01:15:58.779
think the implications towards the final plan

01:15:58.779 --> 01:16:01.439
is what pushes me to add Dustin. Okay. And I

01:16:01.439 --> 01:16:03.039
will go with that because I think that that's

01:16:03.039 --> 01:16:06.539
been our theme is overall story implication.

01:16:07.079 --> 01:16:10.500
So then the real debate has to happen. Pound

01:16:10.500 --> 01:16:14.880
for pound. Mrs. Wheeler or Dustin. Testing. Yeah,

01:16:14.880 --> 01:16:17.720
testing. Okay. Sorry, Mrs. Wheeler. We love you.

01:16:17.899 --> 01:16:19.960
You are absolutely deserving. You are awesome.

01:16:19.979 --> 01:16:21.840
There's just a candidate who's just a bit more

01:16:21.840 --> 01:16:29.520
deserving. Yes. Today's public service announcement.

01:16:29.840 --> 01:16:32.460
When given a choice between helicopter or ladder

01:16:32.460 --> 01:16:35.640
for your upwards mobility, please take into consideration

01:16:35.640 --> 01:16:38.060
if you are existing in a wormhole or trying to

01:16:38.060 --> 01:16:40.979
reach a Bowser castle in the sky. These and other

01:16:40.979 --> 01:16:44.640
weather factors may be vitally important. Thank

01:16:44.640 --> 01:16:46.899
you, dear listeners, schmisseners, for listening

01:16:46.899 --> 01:16:49.579
to this episode of Fandom Schmandom. If you'd

01:16:49.579 --> 01:16:51.859
like to discuss this episode or any other episode

01:16:51.859 --> 01:16:54.079
we've done, please hit us up on our social media

01:16:54.079 --> 01:16:56.819
channels. You can find us on TikTok and Instagram

01:16:56.819 --> 01:17:00.699
at fandomschmandompod and on X at fandom underscore

01:17:00.699 --> 01:17:05.659
schmandom. A quick PSA for me. When in midst

01:17:05.659 --> 01:17:07.800
of burp, please try and time it at a part where

01:17:07.800 --> 01:17:09.819
you're not supposed to laugh at this very funny

01:17:09.819 --> 01:17:11.840
thing that your partner on a podcast just wrote.

01:17:12.579 --> 01:17:15.300
I did really mean to laugh. I just was in the

01:17:15.300 --> 01:17:20.340
middle of being like... It was very funny. Kudos

01:17:20.340 --> 01:17:23.460
to you. Wormhole trying to reach Bowser in the

01:17:23.460 --> 01:17:26.920
sky. Excellent. You used my words and I feel

01:17:26.920 --> 01:17:31.260
like mockery is the highest form of flattery.

01:17:33.159 --> 01:17:37.560
Please do not forget to rate and review us if

01:17:37.560 --> 01:17:40.239
you liked the episode. It really helps the algorithm

01:17:40.239 --> 01:17:44.159
place us in front of other like -minded schmissioners

01:17:44.159 --> 01:17:51.539
out there. With that, we are out, you all. Really

01:17:51.539 --> 01:17:57.359
threw me with you all. Don't forget to tip your

01:17:57.359 --> 01:18:39.770
oxygen tanks. Fairly well. Oh, my God. I try

01:18:39.770 --> 01:18:43.229
to avoid it picking up nonsense. Dear listeners,

01:18:43.369 --> 01:18:47.609
Sierra has been sick for about 18 months now.

01:18:48.470 --> 01:18:53.590
18. She's been to the doctor 72 times in the

01:18:53.590 --> 01:18:56.970
last four days. God. No. It feels like it. But

01:18:56.970 --> 01:18:59.949
Sierra is actually sick and has been sick for

01:18:59.949 --> 01:19:02.029
like, I don't know, four and a half weeks at

01:19:02.029 --> 01:19:03.880
this point. Five weeks almost. Something like

01:19:03.880 --> 01:19:07.300
that. When did we do that recording where you

01:19:07.300 --> 01:19:09.819
can literally hear my voice? Did your voice break

01:19:09.819 --> 01:19:12.079
at the end? Yeah, I don't know. My voice started

01:19:12.079 --> 01:19:16.159
dying in the middle of the recording. Yeah, the

01:19:16.159 --> 01:19:19.800
30th of November. Oh yeah, we did the 30th of

01:19:19.800 --> 01:19:21.600
November. Exactly four weeks ago. Exactly four

01:19:21.600 --> 01:19:28.239
weeks ago. So she'll be fine. But her voice might

01:19:28.239 --> 01:19:33.000
break. Yeah, you may get very fun, like, as if

01:19:33.000 --> 01:19:36.159
I'm just, guys, I'm just going through second

01:19:36.159 --> 01:19:41.899
puberty. It's fine. Or menopause early. That

01:19:41.899 --> 01:19:46.300
would be shocking. Really early. I should stress

01:19:46.300 --> 01:19:49.800
the really. Really early. I had a big reaction

01:19:49.800 --> 01:19:54.000
to Eleven's Superman 8. I don't remember the

01:19:54.000 --> 01:19:55.619
word. Reactions. That's it. All right, Brett,

01:19:55.659 --> 01:19:58.420
starting that over. That's going to end up in

01:19:58.420 --> 01:20:02.100
the blooper reel. The two biggest reactions.

01:20:05.659 --> 01:20:08.399
That's like something out of a Disney channel

01:20:08.399 --> 01:20:13.899
TV show. Yeah, for real. You know, Noah Schnapp?

01:20:18.279 --> 01:20:22.460
Schnapp? Oh, Schnapp. Oh, Schnapp, Noah. Can't

01:20:22.460 --> 01:20:39.430
get your name right. Eep, sweep, clam. I can't

01:20:39.430 --> 01:20:44.130
beat bugs like Sam can, so I sing a stupid song

01:20:44.130 --> 01:20:56.979
instead. There are owls on his bookshelf. And

01:20:56.979 --> 01:21:06.239
a book about dogs. Sam loves his wife and it's

01:21:06.239 --> 01:21:11.420
cute. Creating a blooper reel with your singing?

01:21:11.880 --> 01:21:15.859
Yep. All right. No, everything's good. I was

01:21:15.859 --> 01:21:19.239
like, I can't beatbox, so I'll sing a stupid

01:21:19.239 --> 01:21:27.550
song. One second, Brit. I have to un -highlight

01:21:27.550 --> 01:21:30.850
all of this stuff to hide my thoughts. Okay,

01:21:30.890 --> 01:21:39.750
so. So, so far, we have had. Oh, sorry. Goodness

01:21:39.750 --> 01:21:43.609
gracious. We've had coughing. Nice ear. Viral

01:21:43.609 --> 01:21:47.489
illnesses as our episode one through four MVP.

01:21:47.989 --> 01:21:50.390
Play this new game, Helicopters and Ladders.

01:21:50.569 --> 01:21:59.460
You only go up. weather effects and the size

01:21:59.460 --> 01:22:01.239
of the hole that you're trying to go through

01:22:01.239 --> 01:22:05.840
oh gosh don't forget to chip your chopper pilots