Welcome to Fandom Shmandom, the fandom podcast
that covers everything you love and more. I'm
Sam Williams. And I'm Sierra Obermark. Today's
episode, we will be melodiously maundering about
Stranger Things Season 4, Episodes 5 through
8. Without further ado, we will, as Roger Smith
says, dive on in. So get up to 88 because it
is time to travel back to our story recap. Episode
5. The agent was dead to begin with. That's a
Dickens reference. Sorry. Merry Christmas or
July. We don't know when you're listening to
this. But in actuality, of the two special agents
guarding Will, Mike, and Jonathan, one is captured
and the other is now dead. But before he died,
he gave the crew. The coordinates to Nina, which
they think is a girl, but the audience knows
is a giant machine made to bring Eleven's powers
back online. At 6 '3", 120 pounds, it's Dr. Papa
Brenner! Eh. He's come back to help Eleven work
through some memories and get the ball rolling
on flipping her proverbial power switch back
on. Joyce and Murray, who were betrayed recently
by a man named Yuri, overcome him and crash his
plane, but survive because plot armor? Hopper
waxes poetic about death, his daughter, and feeling
cursed to his new friend enemy, Enzo slash Dimitri.
But most importantly, our Scooby -Doobies have
figured out that in the Upside Down, Vecna exists
in the old murder mansion, and they can track
him using lights, like Joyce did with Will in
Season 1. Oh. But Jason and the Argonauts have
found Eddie, and they follow him out into the
lake. And did I mention that one of the basketball
players, Patrick, has been having nosebleeds
and visions of a clock? I'm sure he'll be okay.
Episode 6, he is, in fact, and say it with me
now, dead. Cue the overmark. Dun, dun, dun. Jason
is questioned and realizes the police do not
believe his story that the devil has killed Patrick.
Jason makes a rousing speech to get the whole
town to hate Eddie and hunt him. What no one
realizes is that down in the depths of the lake,
right below where Patrick was killed, a gate
has opened. The evil side of the U .S. government
is torturing the other secret agent who they
captured to find and kill Eleven. Eleven is a
danger to no one, for she's agreed to work with
Papa to get her powers back and finds her memory
self talking with a kindly orderly who is definitely
not important and super not the origin story
we are looking for in Vecna. But he's kind to
Eleven now when all the other kids bully her.
The Desert crew, Mike, Argyle, Will, and Jonathan,
have driven to Utah to meet Dustin's techie girlfriend,
Susie, who helps them find where the exact coordinates
of Nina are. Murray and Joyce use Yuri to break
into the Russian prison, while Hopper and Enzo
have been sentenced to death by Demogorgon. Hopper
stages a fake fight with Enzo to grab a lighter
off a guard, because, lest we all forget, fire
is the Demo's only weakness. These Scooby -Doobies
figure out a gate must have opened up in the
lake, and the older teens, Eddie, Steve, Nancy,
and Robin, go out on the lake to confirm said
water gate. But cops arrive, and Max, Lucas,
and Dustin distract them as Steve is grabbed
by a tentacle and plunged into the Upside Down,
where fun little bats try to kill him. Episode
7, But They Can't Kill Him. For Nancy, Robin,
and Eddie arrive to save the day, lose where
the gate is, and run away from more bat swarms.
But no matter, because Eleven is on her way to
save, wait, no she's not, she's still stuck in
memory land trying to get her powers back on.
She keeps diving into these memories about kids
bullying her and planning to kill her, you know,
childhood. But Vecna slash Henry slash One has
a plan to get Eleven out of there. One and Brenner
both know Eleven is more powerful than any of
them, and they both have ulterior motives. She
escapes with One, and takes out his implant chip,
which Brenner can explode. But it turns out that
it was an inhibitor chip, which stopped One from
using his mind powers. This enables One to go
on a great, joyous, happy, murdering rampage
of many children, before trying to tell Eleven
that he is Vecna all along, and also... He wants
her to help him reform the whole world in his
image, which she doesn't really like, and then
they fight, and then she sends him to the Upside
Down, and now we're all caught up. Hopper hatches
a plan to fight the Demogorgon back in Russia,
which kind of works, and Murray and Joyce infiltrate
the base, freeing Hopper finally. which also
kind of works, the young half of our scoobs must
find a way to help the older half of the doobs
stuck in the Upside Down. The older doobs need
weapons, so they head to Nancy's room in the
Upside Down, because in real life she has guns
in her room, but they aren't there. Instead,
Nancy figures out that the Upside Down Hawkins
version was created the day Will went missing,
the day Elle created the gate in Season 1. By
using lights and electricity, the scoobs are
able to relay that there is another gate in Eddie's
trailer. The doobs rush there, only for Vecna
to grab Nancy. Making us feel like Nancy, not
Max, will be one of Vecna's next victims. And
you know who literally isn't in this episode
at all? Argyle, Jonathan, Will, and Mike. Episode
8! After Nancy sees Vecna's origin story, he
shows her his plan, opening a giant gate to Hawkins.
Hopper, Murray, Yuri, and Joyce escape the Russian
base and find Katinka, their ride home. Eleven
has her powers back after remembering how she
created Vecna, and they seemed to power up a
bit? Maybe? She can lift an 11 ,000 ton tank
with her mind. That's definitely more than a
van. But Eleven has now made psychic one -way
contact with her friends, and they are in dire
trouble. She wants to leave. Dr. Sam says yes.
Brenner says absolutely not and stops her, only
for the evil side of the U .S. military to show
up and try and kill everyone. But here comes
Mike, Will, Jonathan, and Argyle bearing the
flag of the show's worst storyline, finally making
themselves relevant again and saving Eleven from
a sniper. They need to get to Hawkins to save
Max. Why? Well, Nancy relays Vecna's plan to
the Scooby -Doobs, a giant gate and army, essentially
Armageddon. They hatch a plan to kill Vecna.
They need to get Vecna to remote travel to kill
his next victim. He'll go into a trance, and
then they can kill him in the Upside Down. But
they need to control the timing of this, so Max
offers herself up as bait. And off we go into
the finale. Hopper, Joyce, and Murray, plus Enzo
and Yuri, trying to fly back from Russia, Mike,
Eleven, Jonathan, Will, and Argyle driving back
to Hawkins, and the Scooby Doobies marching into
the murder mansion to offer up Max so they have
a chance to kill Vecna. Breathe, everybody. We'll
get through this together. Just hold our proverbial
hands. Yes, it's okay. Here we go. Well, friends,
find your donut holes. It's time for our Knives
Out category, where we sleuth out which three
storylines are the most vital to pay attention
to out of everything we just discussed. Yeah,
okay. So the three are The Creel House and the
Upside Down, a .k .a. The Hawkins Crew, The Scooby
Doobies. Number two, Eleven's Powers, which seem
important. And number three, From Russia, With
Love, Again. So our first storyline, the Creel
house and the upside down. Max draws Vecna's
mind palace after she gets back and Nancy realizes
that it is Victor Creel's house. They go and
explore the house and using lights, they find
where Vecna is. And now they can tell when he
is using his powers to kill. They go and they
meet up with Eddie, who unfortunately was present.
For yet another death. And while they are all
getting together, there's a town hall meeting
where all of the kids become suspects in these
murders because of their connection with Eddie
and Hellfire Club. While this is happening, they
figure out everything about Vecna, how he works.
Dustin figures out that there is a gate at each
kill site because of the changes in the electromagnetic
field. His compass is malfunctioning again. They're
able to find the Watergate, as they dub it, and
Steve gets pulled through with Nancy, Robin,
and Eddie going after him while Dustin, Max,
and Lucas distract and are caught by the cops
who are looking for them because of aforementioned
town hall meeting. The older teens make it to
the Wheeler house in the upside down in order
to try to find weaponry that Nancy has stored
away. But they find that it is stuck in the day
that Will went missing in season one. However,
they are able to make noise and contact the younger
teens who are in the present day reality Wheeler
house in the non upside down in the right side
up question mark. They. Recruit Erica, steal
a light bright from a child, and then communicate
with each other in order to figure out what the
plan is. And then they set off towards the gate
in Eddie's trailer, because that's easier than
diving into water and going through that way.
They all see each other through this very odd
gravity -defying gate. They form a floating rope.
Through the barrier, and Eddie and Robin make
it back, but Nancy is caught by Vecna and forced
to relive Barb's death before Vecna tells Nancy
everything about who he was as Henry, as one,
the lab massacre, and tells his plans for the
world, leaving her with horrible visions and
the chilling, I want you to tell Eleven, tell
her everything you see. They make a plan to use
Max as bait. They stock up on weapons, where
they run into Jason and company doing the same,
and they arrive at the Creel house after having
some really sweet little moments together, and
they drop off Max, Lucas, and Erica. Why is this
so important, Sam, besides it being a lot? Okay,
so there's a lot of stuff in terms of how do
we kill. And how does Vecna work and how do we
kill Vecna? That pops up in here. So we've got
this. Oh, okay. So he's connected to the mansion
because Nancy is able to look at Max's drawings.
And even though she's not Will in terms of an
artist, she is able to, Nancy is able to recognize
some things and put it together because she's
already investigated Victor Creel. So they're
able to go there. And while they're there, figure
out that that's where Vecna's living because
the light's going off, et cetera, et cetera,
et cetera. This is so important because without
any of this information, we don't really have
an idea of the setting of where people need to
be and how it's all going to work. Also, when
they're in Victor Creel's old house, the murder
mansion, they witness Vecna there and then shattering
all the lights around them. Later, when they
realize he's transporting remotely to go and
make his attacks, they're like, oh, oh, he's
there. He's there when this happens, which leads
directly to the final when they set up there
in order to get into the gate through Eddie's
car home thing and then off into the mansion
to face the physical form of Vecna while he's
trying to attack Max. But also this gives us
a ton of emotional. It gives us way more Lucas
and Max depth, which really makes the finale
hit home. It gives us a ton of Nancy and Steve
romance lines, which is setting up this love
triangle for season five. It shows off Eddie's
bravery, which we'll talk about a lot throughout
this podcast episode, the next podcast episode.
And in general, just really gives us the crux
of the story for this season. And also it brings
the most characters together, which is going
to be really fun because season five is going
to be everyone's in the same place. So it's giving
us a little taste of that as well from a writing
standpoint. Yeah, it is. It is definitely very
nice. I think one of the talking about the emotional
points, this sequence that we get where they're
all kind of practicing with their weapons and
getting used to what their role is going to be
in this four part plan. that they're putting
together really sweet moments between Nancy and
Max, who we don't really see together that often.
They have this really nice moment of this bonding.
And we get to see Dustin and Eddie being goofy.
And enjoying each other's company, even in the
face of what's going on. We get to see Steve
and Robin continuing to connect. We get to see
all these little moments of them kind of trading
around of who they're talking to and almost saying
their little final goodbyes to each other in
a way before they enter what could potentially
be death for all of them or any of them, any
number of them. I really, really enjoyed, especially
on a second watch through that whole sequence
of just seeing the little emotional beats that
we can get and how they're all going to carry
us through, through the end of this season and
through the next season as well. Yeah, absolutely.
Our second storyline, Eleven's Powers. So it
turns out that Owens is working with Brenner.
Eleven freaks out, which is understandable, and
tries to run but is subdued because that's what
kind of Brenner's whole MO is. She wakes up in
a loop of a memory stuck in the Rainbow Room
from Hawkins Lab, being approached by an orderly
and realizes she has to follow the memory through
sort of like a video game where you have to start
matching and remember where everything is, like
a Groundhog Day memory. She begins going through
the memories of having trouble with lessons and
her powers and is resuscitated after having an
episode, but attacks Brenner and the others and
tries to escape and then turns back and decides
that she does want to recover her memories because
she wants to recover her power. The orderly in
these memories begins to help her, telling her
about Papa, his lies, and how one was real, not
a legend, because she's there with two through
herself. One isn't actually around anywhere.
During a competition, Eleven uses her anger to
power her powers and uses only one hand. But
her win makes some of the other children angry
and they attack Eleven, which the orderly lets
her know was planned by Papa. And they will kill
her next time because Papa is scared of her power
and needs control. The orderly has a plan to
get her out, but he can't come because Papa put
a tracker in his neck. She removes the tracker,
only for him to realize that he is one during
their escape. He tells Eleven to stay, but after
time and screaming, she investigates to find
out that he has killed everyone. As the memory
one is telling his story to Eleven, At the same
time, Nancy is hearing Vecna tell the exact same
thing to her. Eleven refuses to join One in the
memories and in the past, and they fight, her
blasting him into the Upside Down, creating him
anew as Vecna. Eleven wakes in the real world
and tests her powers, finding out that her friends
are in danger. But Papa doesn't think she's ready,
as One has been gaining power this whole time.
Owen says it is her choice, but Brenner chains
up Owen and tries to make Eleven stay by explaining
they were searching for the Soviets, not Henry,
which Eleven calls him out on. He knocks her
out and collars her just as the military arrives
and kills everyone, including Brenner, who is
shot trying to get Eleven and him out. Eleven
brings down a helicopter using two hands just
as the California boys arrive. And in his last
moments, Brenna releases the collar, asking her
to understand why he did it, and that it was
all to protect her. They leave to get back to
Hawkins tonight, otherwise all their friends
will die. So, Sierra, why is this important?
Why do we care? I think there's two main reasons
for this plotline. One is... more of the backstory
of vecna yeah because while nancy is getting
a lot of information it is also an unreliable
narrator because he doesn't tell her the full
story yeah totally and he does make it seem like
11 caused the massacre and 11 was the one who
killed all of the people in the lab whereas when
we get it from 11's own memories we are seeing
Much more of the reality of the situation, that
it was one, he's the one who lost control and
went on this rampage. And also we get a little
bit more of his mindset as one, not as Henry.
Yeah. Because while he is the same person, Henry,
one, Vecna, it's a different stage in his life
that we're getting. a little bit more backstory
on. So together, they create the full story of
who Vecna is. And we get then another lore drop
in the finale, but these are the two main sections.
So we're getting a lot more information about
one, about Papa, about the lab, about how Eleven
basically was raised and trained, and her story
as well, and how she ended up opening the gate
in the first place, being connected to the upside
down, etc. The other important thing is really
her powers and being able to access those again
using the same techniques that she used in the
past. Because as we find out, she had powers,
she grew those abilities. When she fights one
and sends him through the upside down, she loses
all of her powers and has to retrain again with
Dr. Brenner. That's why she's still there, is
to retrain her powers again. So this is the second
time now that she's gone through this. It is
very interesting, though, that Brenner believes
that she doesn't need to physically train this
second time and that she can experience. initial
training and unlocking of her memories in order
to unlock her almost tearing down a wall in her
mind yeah so it's like writer's block for superpowers
yes exactly exactly so those are the two main
focuses of this storyline that really come into
play i'll also say i think this really puts to
bed the hawkins lab storyline at this point We
were teased about Brenner being alive in season
two. He's come back. He's now officially, like,
he's dead. He's dead dead. I will be entirely,
thoroughly pissed off if they're like, oh, no,
but then people came and they revived him and
it's all good. No, no, no. This is over. And
maybe Dr. Owens will be in the next season. But
I think in terms of, like, growing up, all that
sort of stuff, that main storyline, the hangups
of it, a lot of the holes have been plugged.
There may be some Vecna. 1 .11 stuff that we
get. But in general, I think that this Brenner
storyline is completely done. And I think, well,
well done. It was worth Brenner coming back to
do this. And we found it very satisfying to see
a lot more of the origins, etc. What happened
to all the other kids. So they're really doing
a nice job of... of tying up what could be loose
ends. And I think with a big series franchise
like this, you think of Game of Thrones, you
think of Lost, right? Two enormous franchises,
two enormous fandoms that did not tie up their
loose ends as well as people would have liked.
The Duffer Brothers are doing a much better job
of doing that. And it gives me hope for season
five. Yes, very much so. Our third storyline
from Russia with love. Where we find love again.
So after the group is betrayed by Yuri, Hopper
and Dimitri are locked up together somewhere
new. Still in the prison, but a new section.
Joyce and Marie overtake Yuri in his plane as
he's going to deliver them. And they crash it,
but... They're fine. And they make a plan to
walk into the prison, essentially, delivering
themselves, but with Murray portraying Yuri,
because that's not confusing enough. Dimitri
and Hopper face new horrors, a succulent banquet,
where Hopper reveals he knows much about Demogorgons
and stages a drunken fight to obtain a lighter
and vodka. Hopper is about to face the Demogorgon
as Joyce and Murray arrive. The prisoners gather
their weapons as they are there to train the
beast or give it entertaining food, neither of
which are great options, and Hopper creates his
fire as the prisoners die. Murray reveals himself
and takes the warden hostage as Dimitri and Hopper
remain to escape through the door that Joyce
has now opened. Hopper spears the Demogorgon
and our lovebirds are reunited at last. Reunited
and it doesn't feel good to be sued. Turns out,
though, Demogorgons can climb and it hops out
of the enclosure, attacking soldiers left and
right. And as it does so, the group hears shrieks
from another room where they find another. Demogorgon
specimen tied to a table for investigation. As
Hopper puts it out of its misery, they realize
there is a whole lab growing Demodogs, Demogorgons,
and the like, and they also have the shadow monster
question mark contained? Yeah, that's wild. That's
a crazy moment. That, like, I totally glossed
over. What? Totally glossed over any time watching,
and this time I was like, wait, that's... That's
the shadow monster. It's inside a vessel. Yes.
So many questions. They do gloss over this as
well and escape through a tunnel and drive off
while threatening Yuri to please fix up his helicopter,
aka Katinka, and take them back to America. Yeah.
Whew. Not a lot, but a lot. Not a lot, but a
lot, certainly. I think the not a lot is the
fact that a lot of this storyline is used for
two different things. Hopper action, so like
action star moments where we're doing a Bruce
Willis, we're doing a Rambo, we're doing a sort
of Harrison Ford. where he has action -adventure
moments of battling the Beast as the hero. We
also have huge moments of comedy relief, where
Winona Ryder and the guy who plays Murray, whose
name is escaping me, Joyce and Murray are used
for comedic relief, really, and Yuri as well.
And we get to see Murray doing this impeccable
job of using his Russian, and the fact that he
looks a lot like Yuri, if you don't know who
Yuri looks like. To get through this Russian
prison. So there's like writing standpoints where
we get action adventure in a way that isn't as
scary or as horror based. As compared with like
Vecna breaking bones and smashing eyes. God,
that's what I want my band name to be. Breaking
bones and smashing eyes. It's your first single.
But also, there are these huge implications about
what the Russians have been doing, filling in
more holes. You know. tying up more loose ends.
And also there's this huge reveal that is like,
how is this going to work into season five? Or
is it even going to mean anything? The fact that
in the right side up, as we're calling it, you
can contain the particles that are the shadow
monster, which we'll see in the finale, having
the particles of the shadow monster, super dangerous,
especially if you've got carcass vessels of its
favorite dogs around. Yes. Not an ideal situation
to have placed yourself in. But, like, I don't
understand. How do they contain the shadow monster?
It's shadow. It's vapor. It's, like, air mist.
They vacuum sealed it? Yeah, but it is... But
how'd they get it? Particles? Right. Yeah, I
know. So many questions that I kind of feel like
we won't get answers to on that particular topic.
Frustratingly enough. Very annoying. I don't...
Yeah. There's other... There's bigger fish to
fry. In season five. Vecna. Does Will have powers?
Is Vecna the Demogorgon? All of these things
we're going to talk about in a little bit, y
'all. So keep your finger on the pause button
and rewind that tape. It's the prestige category
for what did we notice on this watch through.
Episode five. Owens is being so nice and then
suddenly we get to Brenner and then it isn't
Eleven's choice anymore if she gets to go into
Nina and get her powers back or anything like
that. Essentially, I just, I love Owens. I know,
he's great. And he's so sweet and he's so great
and, you know, he sees the stakes that we're
facing and we really need... Eleven to get her
powers back in order to fight this evil. But
Owens is so cognizant of the fact that Eleven
is still essentially a child, but should also
have her own autonomy. And then we get Brenner,
who's just the exact opposite and is just, no,
you're going to do this. It's not your... It's
very MKUltra, right? He's very much of the ilk
of, like, you get no say versus Owens is sort
of the, like, after the CIA gets caught, they're
like, okay, no, sorry, we'll be better. But Owens
is such this good, positive guy. And he's just
so heartwarming. But I've got a question for
you. What do you think about Brenner being brought
back like this? That this is the reason why they
bring him back? I think it is the only thing
that really makes sense. I don't know that there's
another way to bring him back that would be satisfying.
Yeah. It would feel too deus ex machina for him
to appear in any other circumstance. Right. But
I do enjoy that his coming back is very contained
to this specific mission. Yeah. This specific
location. Yeah. He doesn't interact with... Everyone,
he is only interacting with Owens and with Eleven.
Yeah. And that is it. And it is a very insular
story that doesn't, I don't mind him coming back
for this, especially after the tease of he's
still alive that we get when Eleven is off on
her grunge mission. Yeah, in Chicago. Yeah. So
I do like that. We came back around to him. I
think that he is a very interesting character.
And I do like that he gets this moment. Yeah.
I do. I was thinking a lot about what would be
– because the first time I watched this, I remembered
being like, this doesn't live up to the hype
of Brenner as this really evil dude from season
one. And then you get this tease and you feel
like it's – I don't know. It feels akin to like
if Scar came back. only to give Simba some lessons
about being king. And, like, I don't know that
Brenner's storyline here ever reaches, like,
the heights that I was expecting in the first
watch, but I also think it would be too melodramatic
if he, like, came back to take down Eleven with
his own number 12 or whatever. Like, you start
to get very Smallville, very Monster of the Week,
very, like, old television. Deal, I think he
would do that. So I like the way he comes back,
and you make a really excellent point. I think
it's super important that he's just with Ellen
Owens in this one spot doing this one thing,
and then they kill him off. Mm -hmm. Also, did
we say cue the Obermark for Brenner? No, and
we didn't say it for the agent at the beginning
either. Okay, so pour one out. Cue the Obermark
for Howard, or Hammer, whatever his name is.
Dun -dun -dun. So a really good eulogy, whatever
his name is. And then cue the overmark for Brenner.
Dun -dun -dun. Thank you. Excellent. All right.
Sierra, another big question for you. Is the
explanation of Eleven's powers being cut off
because she had similar symptoms to a stroke
make any sense? No. Short answer. I... I have
a hard time with this because it seems as though
Brenner is likening the result of whatever happened
to her as the result of someone who has had a
stroke and learning to walk again. That's his
big comparison is, you know, we need her to walk.
We need her to run as a stroke victim. would
have to regain their abilities. So Eleven, after
whatever she has experienced, has to regain her
abilities. And I just don't know that... I understand
the recovery analogy being similar. I just have
a hard time with the... Still, because I still
don't feel that it's really explained because
I think that when he's doing his stroke analogy,
it's really about the recovery and still not
about how we got here to begin with. We still
don't really understand. Is it a, some mental
injury? Is it some physical injury? You know,
her unlocking these memories is what unlocks
her powers, but she didn't have these memories
before the fight with the mind flare. It doesn't
fully connect in my head how we got here. I think
that's my problem as well. So he likens it to
a stroke victim needing to recover. And I get
that her brain is the source of her power. It's
the same with Vecna. It's brain. And so if you're
saying a stroke is the cutoff of blood to your
brain, you can see how, okay, that might short
-circuit her powers and she needs a reboot. But
without directly saying, Hey, the numbers on
your chart indicate that you had a stroke -like
event for you, which, because your brain is so
powerful, it was able to survive your normal
functions but cut off your brain. I need, like,
a more overt explanation like that than what
we got. Because what we got is, it's like a stroke
for your recovery, but her powers aren't blood
-based, and the Mind Flayer's little... gulag
slippery substance thing was in her leg it never
seemed like l was giving any of the symptoms
of a stroke victim there was no slurred speech
there was no sagging of one side of the face
there was no any of this stuff that you're taught
to look for for stroke victims so i like i just
need a better sort of meet you of why her power
stopped yes yeah i agree I think it's a tricky
subject there. And I think the reason why you
and I are harping on this so much is because
the show does a fairly good job with all of its
science. Right. And so it's just really, this
major plot point just ends up feeling a little
contrived. And this is the type of stuff that
regular watchers who don't like deep diving and
just like watching and taking it in, which is
a totally great way to... To do TV. Oh, yeah.
And saves you a lot of aches and pains. But if
you're just doing that, this is the type of stuff
that maybe you're not vocalizing, but that bothers
you. Inconsistency and predictability, I feel
like, are the two layman's biggest problems with
shows and fandoms and stuff like this. And this
is... It feels a little inconsistent. This is
a big enough question to make everybody go, but...
But I guess, you know, maybe they are trusting
the audience to just be like, yep, got it. Yeah,
it's true. We could be diving too deep. Also,
kind of still with Brenner and Owens and Eleven,
there's this image when Brenner knocks her out
and she's laying in his arms and Owens and the
others are standing around. I couldn't help but
notice that it. Seems like a painting almost.
It's a really good triptych. Not triptych. It's
this. Tableau. Yes. It's this really almost beautiful
imagery that we're getting. And kind of this
romantic style of how she's laying sprawled in
his lap and his arms. And then everyone else
is kind of watching and gathered around. There's
a moment later that I think it mirrors as well,
which is in Brenner's death. And I'll get there
when we get to that moment in this noticing.
But it is a very interesting tidbit for me. Totally.
As an art person. Absolutely. So continuing with
these individuals. As someone who very much cares
about their hair, waking up to find it gone would
be absolutely horrifying to me. That is abuse
right there. The absolute rest of it notwithstanding,
that in and of itself is horrible. Especially
since she's had her hair cut and now she's had
the freedom to grow it out for the last two and
a half, three years that we've been... And she
clearly wants to have it grown out. And that
would be just terrible. It's such a moment of
horror realization about, like, I'm back here
against my will. Again, that MKUltra sort of
reverberating through. Mm -hmm. Yeah. And another
moment, just kind of my last touch on the Nina
sequence. Eleven kind of accepts what she's going
to be doing and she says, Papa. And then he says,
daughter. I felt it lackluster. And I think that
it's because it would be more impactful if Millie
Bobby Brown was actually 14 years old. If we
didn't take nine years to make this. Exactly.
And not an adult playing a 14 year old. Or, you
know, an older teen playing a 14 -year -old.
I can't remember exactly how old she was at the
time. But I just, some of these moments I feel
like would have been so good had that age really
been shown. And maybe that was a moment we, yeah,
I don't know. I mean, because we get all the
young 11. So it makes it very obvious to me when
we're missing a young Eleven moment. I really
feel that there were a lot of people throughout
season three. I mean, even starting in season
two. Oh, the kids are so much older. But it didn't
really seem to bother the zeitgeist in season
two. Season three, you heard a lot about it,
but it really didn't bother me at all for season
three. No. They were still clearly younger than
Billy, who was the main. in that show. They weren't
around people like adults as much. And, you know,
Hopper and Joyce are clearly much older and age
appropriate. But season four, there's such a
dramatic difference. And because they aged down
Vecna compared to what he should be. He should
be, that character should be around 36, 37 years
old. The real actor is about 33 years old. Millie
Bobby Brown is around 18 years old. She should
be 14. So instead of seeing this, like, 27 -year
difference, you're seeing, in reality, a 13 -year
difference. It's a huge, it's a huge deal. It
is. And you can see it with Brenner, too. Like,
it's, I think Millie Bobby Brown delivers that
line really well. But it's kind of like in the
NBA, you can't teach height. In acting, you can't
teach youth. Age. Yeah. Although as much as Death
Becomes Her or whatever that movie is with Meryl
Streep, where they try and go back in time with
their looks. Oh, man. My last few things just
on episode five, seeing, watching it back. One
of them is just. These are just noticings of
people that I do not understand. Mr. Wheeler
is kind of a butt about having other kids around
in his house, and I don't understand it. Shouldn't
he be used to this situation by now? It's a weird
situation in general. Maybe he's just always
asleep in front of the TV on the couch, and he
doesn't even notice that there's other kids in
his house all the time. But it seems weird. To
be fair, I knew a lot of dads like this growing
up. Okay, fair enough. The other thing that I
didn't understand, I do not understand Sheriff
Powell's deputy. He is so rude. Always. He's
having this interview with Jason. Who just watched
his friend die horribly. And he's openly mocking
him. Right. How – in what world is this any amount
of professional? Yeah, they're really selling
the idea that the cops who hear people speculate
all the time, get things wrong all the time,
bring in the supernatural, I'm sure in a place
like Hawkins, all the time. They're really, like,
laying it on thick in that scene that, like –
These cops have heard it all, but they know that
it's just it's not magic. It's perfectly explainable
when in actuality it is kind of magic. It's really
not. I mean, it's definitely science fiction,
right? It's it's so advanced brain technology
that it appears as magic. So, yeah, it's it.
He's he's a butt and he's been a butt all all
the seasons. All the seasons, but I feel like
this is when it really came to a head for me.
And we see it again later when the kids are essentially
under house arrest. And he's going up and he's,
I'm going to get one of these little brats to
talk and we'll get him. And I'm just going, what?
He just, he has this, and it doesn't make sense
to me because. beforehand we have hopper and
then powell who's under him and hopper while
not the most professional at the beginning still
does his job well and doesn't outwardly dismiss
anybody and powell seems to have taken note from
that and seems to be trying to do his job as
best as he can and fill hopper's shoes and really
try to bring professionalism to a really wacky
scenario but this guy I think he doesn't respect
Powell that much, and he respected Hopper. But
it still doesn't track, though, because Hopper,
I don't think, would have tolerated that behavior
either. I don't think Hopper would have, but
I think that's what this guy's personality has
kind of been under the surface, and that Hopper
is keeping him in check. And as soon as Hopper
leaves and he doesn't really respect, you know,
they were basically peers. Who knows if he's
jealous or not that the sheriff got the position
over him. But either way, even if he does, I
just don't think he is as scared or intimidated
by Sheriff Powell. I see. I don't like it, but
I see it. Episode six. Episode six. My first
thing. Susie's house feels like a dang Wes Anderson
film. That whole sequence. I love Wes Anderson
as a filmmaker. There's definitely like the dramatic
level of this and some of the ways that they
frame some of the shots. I'm like, I get where
you're coming from. But it is really funny. The
color palette is completely different. The way
that they're sequencing things is different.
It's fun. It's really fun. I loved it. I think
it's fascinating that we delve a bit more into
religion in this season. We got a little bit
of it. in season three just with suzy's character
in the mormons and and then in this one we've
got suzy you know sort of uh praying with jesus
or turning a blind making sure that jesus turns
a blind eye but also we get jason selling that
this is devil worship that how can you defeat
him if if you don't believe in the devil that
sort of stuff which he doesn't really realize
that He's saying the exact right thing just about
the wrong person. If you don't believe that Vecna
is real, how are you going to defeat him? Which
he doesn't defeat him at all. In fact, he helps
him. Because he's not paying attention to the
right thing. But it's a really interesting commentary
on religion as a whole from the Duffer brothers.
And I think it's a fun add -in to the season.
Definitely. I also love the imagery. There's
a lot of really interesting imagery just in...
these sequence of episodes, but the imagery when
the Scoobies or the doobies in the upside down
are running their hands through the lights, the
doobs, when they're running their hands through
the lights in such a grim, awful place, it is
so beautiful. And I love just that ethereal quality
that we get from a place that we usually only
see. gray and red and those dark and dingy colors.
And I, it's, it's just gorgeous. Yeah. The effect
that they play there. Well, quick way to remember
the dupes are down. Nah, I love it. The dupes
are down. Speaking of down, I don't understand
how we have reverse gravity now because Hopper
dropping down into the tunnels, the kids going
down into the tunnels and the soldiers going
through the gate. And all the times that we've
seen the upside down previously and people walking
in there, they haven't had to then crawl on the
ceiling floor to get where they're going. They
just it's all the same and they just drop straight
down or they walk straight in. And, yeah, any
of the other times we've seen it, the upside
down, it hasn't actually been upside down. Yeah.
So, I have speculations. All of Season 1's gates,
portals, were parallel to you. You could walk
straight into them. They were on a wall or in
a tree. There weren't any that were on a floor
or on a ceiling. The ones that are on a floor
or on a ceiling, yeah, so are you climbing up
into it? How does that work? Etc. Right? Especially
when it's... The lake one makes a little bit
more sense to me. You got dragged down and then
you have to... It's not like you're going to
keep going down into the lake on the other side.
It's going to be the other side of the surface.
The above one kind of, like, messes with my brains.
Especially because they don't really explain
it. Dustin just goes, according to my calculations.
And then he busts the towel through. Or the sheet
through. But... I think it's just because we
haven't seen it yet. Because the upside down
that we get to in season two is not the actual
upside down. It's an infected area of the upside
down. There's only one gate. And this is the
roots of things moving through from the gate
into the rest of Hawkins. So it's not actually
the upside down. It's a mixture of the two. It's
what I think we're going to see more of in season
five. Where the whole town becomes a lot more
like the Upside Down. So I hear your frustrations.
It's the first time we see it. It just kind of
happens. And it's a great visual. That's why
it's there. Yeah. It's contrived for the visual.
But I think there's also a little bit of a way
to justify it. Yeah. Well, because also, why
is the gate on the ceiling to begin with? Because
it should really be on the floor. Right. Why
does it go on the ceiling when... It's not like
Chrissy was killed on the ceiling. She rose up
in the air, but so did Patrick. So shouldn't
the gate be in the sky? And so did Fred. Yeah.
Yeah, true. Dear Lord. I wrote this one down
and then realized my error. I wrote, how is Steve's
flashlight working underwater? And then I looked
a little closer and I was like, oh, he wrapped
it in a plastic grocery bag. And the way that
I read that and snorted. Because, totally. Plastic
grocery. But like, that's how you keep it safe
from rain, not submerging it in water. Exactly.
Nailed it. Nailed it. I believe a Ziploc. I wouldn't.
Dear Lord. I believe it more than a plastic grocery
bag. Yeah, that's true. I would believe a Ziploc
over a stupid plastic. Dear Lord. I got to ask
you as a person who wears a scarf more frequently
because I live in California and it's way too
hot most of the year to wear a scarf. When diving
into water, why did Nancy not take her scarf
off? Yeah, that doesn't make sense to me because
doesn't she take off her jacket? Yes. So she
takes her jacket off, but not her scarf. The
scarf, I would take my scarf off before I take
my jacket off. I gotta think. For sure. I gotta
think that it's a costuming thing where the actress
needed that cover for something. Maybe there
was an injury or a mark of some sort that she
needed covered up. Like, why not? Or they just
really wanted her to have the scarf later. Like
the big flowy scarf in the water shot? Maybe.
Maybe. I really, it's. It doesn't make sense.
It's just as weird as Kylo Ren's, like, like.
Injury belt in Last Jedi. Yeah. As a person who,
I hate things on my neck, touching my neck, around
my neck. So, I wear scarves, but very loosely.
So, that would definitely be, I would be thinking,
I'm about to go into water, which will constrict
around my neck. Yeah, that's gotta go. I feel
like, I feel like with your fear of neck stuff,
as soon as you were like, Vecna, just scarf off.
Yeah. No. Uh -uh. Nope. Student got killed. No
scarf, please, for me. Don't want to be grabbed
by a scarf. Nope. I'm actually shaving my hair
now, too. Don't want that monster grabbing that.
So, Eddie is incredibly brave. He is. Yes. Like,
I think oftentimes, and maybe this is just because
I work with teenagers, but oftentimes people
forget that in order to be brave, you have to
be scared. It's not bravery if you're not overcoming
your fear. Yes, exactly. And everyone's been
through this. Nancy, you know, really was brave
in the first season, and now this is sort of
the way that she works. Steve, too. But also
for both of them, there was this sense of, like,
I have to go and avenge or help this person.
Eddie is way more scared, but feels this need
to live up to the version of himself that he
wants to be. And I find that incredibly touching
about his character. He is absolutely a Snape
Slytherin, a person who was sorted into Slytherin
too early and should have been a Gryffindor.
Yeah, definitely. Or potentially a closeted Hufflepuff.
You say that about everybody, you Hufflepuff.
You will not let the world rest if nobody else
is a Hufflepuff. No, I'm thinking more of just
his wanting to, you know, his whole thing with
Dustin is like, you have to be the shit. Like,
this is the flock. Like, this is my the sheep.
You have to collect these people who have nowhere
else to go. You have to be there for them. And
I just I feel like that's a very it's a Gryffindor
thing, too, as well. But it's a very Hufflepuff
type. We'll take the lot. Lastly, this is a moment
where. Lucas and Dustin and Max are on the shores
of the lake as the dupes have gone off, the older
teens have gone off, and they're looking through
binoculars, one of the boys, and Steve has just
taken off his shirt to go diving, and I think
Lucas says, something along the lines of like
wow when did steve get so hairy and dustin's
like i know i keep telling him to he's got to
control that beast but he says the ladies love
it and max comes over to lucas and is like let
me see and just takes the binoculars and keeps
staring and they like let several beats hit while
lucas is like um uh uh and like boy does that
make me uncomfortable but not as nearly as comfortable
as lucas gets with that I think it's really just
there for the humor of it. And also because Max
just has to push Lucas's buttons. Like, as much
as she really cares about him, I think there's
a little part of her that kind of wants to, hey,
you know. I could go somewhere else. Totally.
It's back to her previous season. Sometimes you
just got to break up with them. Yeah, yeah, totally.
Don't possess. That's so true. I think it is
a little moment of old Max coming back, just
in the teasing quality. But it's great. Yeah.
Episode seven. So Brenner tells Eleven in the
memory flashback. If you allow anger or emotion
to invade your thoughts, you will fail. He says
this to all of the kids as they're about to enter
the competition. However, Eleven only succeeds
when she uses anger and emotion kind of on one's
instruction. And that confused me a little bit
because is this a Brenner control issue or is
this a... Brenner doesn't understand how these
powers actually work, is she? I think it's both,
right? I think he needs to feel like he's in
control and not being angry and not being emotional
has served him super well. But he obviously doesn't
have these powers. And also, when Eleven and
Vecna have the fight, like the fight where she
banishes him into the Upside Down, the memory
that fuels her fighting Vecna is... As we find
out with Max, when Max is like, hey, I'll defeat
him by thinking of a happy memory, and I'll just
pursue that, and then he can't find me in my
darkness. The memory that fuels Eleven's fight
against Vecna is her mom. It's a happy memory.
So, yes, Eight has said anger, and anger has
served her well. But I do feel like the Duffers
are building towards Eight. Yeah, but you know
what's even better than anger? Is love. Just
as... which is what I've been saying. Monsters
Inc. has built up, like, you know what's better
than screams is laughter. Mm -hmm. I have a big
problem every watch through with this plot in
season four of these children being like, we're
gonna kill Eleven. I just, it's too melodramatic.
I can see a lot of other bullying, but they just
ratchet and ratchet and ratchet. And I don't
feel like it builds in a satisfying way. It feels
very much like, nope, and now everything. Versus
I could see... a slow build of Brenner convincing
slightly with all of this stuff, but it just
happens so quickly. Well, also remember that
this is in the same world that a middle schooler
is going to murder, make Mike jump to his death
and kill his friend and cut out his teeth from
his gums. And holds a knife to his neck. And
then in the following season. A teenager attempts
triple homicide. With a vehicle. And. So this
is not 100 % new. You're right. This is accurate
to the Stranger Things world. Yes. But it is
wild. Like the bullies in this. In this universe.
In this show. Are just horrendous. The bullies
are. brutal oh you're so right i'm crying i totally
forgot about that dude two's brother was actually
the serial killer kid that's been going around
and murdering everybody oh he's the one that's
gonna end up killing vecna like aria stark style
where you're like it's gotta be john who does
it and then this guy comes out of nowhere and
it's like he made me pee my pants too Kills him.
Oh, my God. Oh, no. Okay. Here's a somewhat,
you know, pedantic question, but also kind of
serious. Is Eleven's power very good? I feel
like if you can turn on and off the power and
she needs a total reboot set, like, we're not,
this is not a very strong superpower. No. Not
particularly. Yeah, not particularly because
she's got these powers that seem very great,
but she needs a reboot every now and then, or
her battery drains, or she needs certain conditions
in order to use them. And I wonder if it's a
comparison between the natural gifts of one?
Yeah. Question mark? Versus manufactured gifts
of Eleven. Through LSD and a pregnancy. Yeah,
totally. So I wonder if that's why she has so
many potential kinks in the conduit of how her
powers work. Is because they're not a natural
gift. It's a created version. That's really the
only thing that I can think of. Is that it's
a almost weird. nature versus nurture situation
where one's powers don't seem to have that issue
and his seem to be he does just getting stronger
as he absorbs and as he kills and all of that
and so his are just increasing and getting stronger
and getting more powerful and he has pretty good
control over them potentially because he already
he created this he had this power in himself
it wasn't created for him. Whereas Eleven's is
100 % manufactured, created for her, manufactured,
has to work on it. Yeah. So I think that that's
really the... Henry Creel does knock himself
out when he kills his family. But yeah, the other
weaknesses don't seem to be as... Maybe he's
just more controlled. It's hard to know. Maybe
he wasn't pushing himself as much as I was, that
sort of stuff. Okay. Where is 8? No idea. Where
is 8? Chicago. We know that 8 was there. We have
no mention of the fact that someone could escape.
Did she escape during this massacre? How? I mean,
Brenner didn't die. Did one let her go? So maybe
8 didn't die? I don't know. Where is 8 during
the massacre? Yeah, where is it? It might be
answered in one of the comics. Who knows? Maybe.
If it is, tell us, people. Please. Please tell
us. I will say, at the end of episode seven,
I am very glad that we get Tiny L fighting Vecna
in this scene. We talked a little bit about the
age problems already, but I was so happy that
we get to see this very small seven, eight -year
-old to see that huge juxtaposition between Monster
Man. Fully grown adult versus little tiny seven
-year -old who was able to beat Vecna with just
a memory of love. I love it. Super good. Yeah.
Very, very, very good. Also. Yeah. Also interesting
tidbit here. Vecna shows Nancy Barb at the beginning
of when he captures her mind to illustrate, hey,
by the way, all of this is. all this is going
to happen but right before he does all of that
like here's who i was and now here's where i'm
going it's like a really effective corporate
pitch he shows nancy barb where she was strung
up where we saw her at the end of season one
in the pool dead right and yes and blames nancy
for it he's like do you remember when i remember
when i killed everybody i remember everybody
that i've ever killed and he's like do you remember
and I'm just like, why is he doing that? And
then that made me think, can Vecna disguise himself
as a Demogorgon? Is he there the one, like, I
still think he's capturing Will, but it looks
like a Demogorgon in season one. And then I'm
there thinking, is he the one that captures Barb
too? Is he the one that Jonathan captures the
photo of? And can he just morph himself to look
like a Demogorgon when he needs? Or is he inside
the Demogorgon via his own power with the Mind
Flayer? So many questions. I don't have a great
answer for this one. Honestly, it does seem odd
about the Barb situation. Potentially, it's just
to because his whole thing is to show people
their darkest. Yeah. Their darkest time, their
worst memory. And Nancy, I'm sure on some level,
still blames herself for Barb's death. Or, you
know, maybe on a very significant level still.
And so that may just be Vecna tapping into Nancy's
mind of what her worst memory is. Yeah, totally.
And that is of Barb. And just jabbing at that
and exacerbating it by... showing her more of
what barb went through yeah but there's a lot
of great questions about where is vecna in season
one absolutely episode eight this is a rhetorical
question why are a bunch of teenagers allowed
to buy guns and knives because that's what is
the 80s that's what jason and they are yeah for
real my goodness anyways go ahead with your poor
poor william My poor baby William. He's pouring
his heart out and making it sound like it's from
Elle. And I just feel for my baby boy. I know.
I do think good on Jonathan for recognizing what
is going on, though. That is some serious good
intuition and acknowledgement of what his brother
is going through. And it got me thinking that
maybe. He'll be the one to kind of pull Will
back to reality from whatever is going to happen
to him in season five. Obviously, we don't know
exactly what's going to happen, but something's
going to happen to Will. He's going to be important.
There's going to be a lot. And I do wonder if
Jonathan's going to be the one to make that connection
with Will. Absolutely. And I hope so. It's a
great point. Because their brotherly relationship
is very sweet. Yeah. Speaking of Will. Max is
planning her being bait situation. And, you know,
she says, or they're speaking about it and saying,
push him away and find a memory to hide in. Hide
in the light. And this feels very logical in
this world because it's similar to what we see
Will do in season one. He hides in Castle Byers,
which is his light. That is his happy place.
And he sings, should I stay or should I go? Very
similar to have the music kind of pull you back
to reality. So while he can't escape because
he's physically in the upside down instead of
locked in his own mind, it is very much him hiding
in the light. And so I really like this. idea
of you know push him away find a memory find
a happy place hide in the light because he's
always going to go for your deepest darkest worst
memory and so if you focus on the good he can't
find you there on uh another completely separate
note a brenner sucks so bad obviously he's awful
he's he's terrible also somehow i feel bad in
his last moments i i have this twinge this very
small twinge of twisting my feelings around and
kind of feeling bad for the guy at the very very
end he's reaching out to 11 for this last time
and i just want you to understand that i did
it for you and obviously i don't believe him
yeah but I don't believe him. He's doing it for
very selfish reasons. It's not to protect her.
It's for a whole bunch of other things that really
have nothing to do with that. But somehow, right
before he says that, I almost have some empathy
for him. Then he says that and it's clearly a
lie and she calls him out. It is very interesting
how well this show does of, like, twisting my
feelings around on people. I can't stand the
emotional, like, wish -washing the show does
in this episode with him. Because it's like,
you know, he's bad and he won't let her leave.
And then he's good and then he's bad. And I don't
really understand Elle either. I understand Elle's
drive to get her powers. And I understand that
she's also kind of been brainwashed into believing
that this man is like her father. But, like,
as a show, I feel like this guy is a bad guy.
And I know that it's very possible for bad people
to be parents and to love their children and
to have their children idolize them and all sorts
of different stuff like this. But I, like, this
part, like, almost bothers me into how much they're,
like, really sort of trying to give you a moment
with him to say goodbye. Yeah. I... Yeah, it's
very interesting. And also... Very clear. Here's
this moment that I was talking about earlier
of another imagery moment of this kind of romantic
style art. Very clear Christ -like pose for him
in death. Super odd. Very clear. Arms outstretched
to the sides. Legs bent at an angle with ankles
overlapping. Yeah. Very... Interesting, fascinating
that they choose that imagery in this moment.
And I do feel like it mirrors that moment earlier
where we have Eleven laying in his lap, almost,
now that I'm thinking about it, almost Christ
laying in the lap of Mary. And so we have this
juxtaposition of him almost holding Christ and
then him almost becoming Christ. I don't know
if that's where we're going, but in a season
where we actually mention religion? Religion
quite a bit. Very interesting. But it's just
a weird juxtaposition away from what his actual
character is, which is this conniving man. Very
opposite. Yeah, that scene bothers me for a couple
of different reasons, from both a mechanical
storytelling moment where I'm like, visually,
what are we doing, and why are we hitting these
beats like this? Yeah, it is very interesting.
Are you trying to make us feel what Elle is feeling?
Because if Elle's like, man, this guy's Christ
-like, I'm going to be like, man, people don't
trust Elle in season five. Like, she's a bad
judge of character. She's going to join Vecna's
side. Right. Speaking of people who are actually
worth being brave and being, you know, respected,
Max is super brave and super right. Lucas is
trying his best to try and get Max to not be
bait, which is understandable. Yeah. But Max
thoughtfully explains to him you can't put a
random stranger in danger when Max knows what
she's fighting, has fought, has survived, and
they have a plan. Right. It's not like they can
just follow somebody else. And that's so right,
and she's so good, and boy, I love her so much
as a character. She's just so great, too. To
be in the presence of when we watch things. Mm
-hmm. Conversely, while they're in the car, Max
and Lucas are talking. Steve is professing his
desire to have six kids in life. And he's professing
it to Nancy, which is wild. They've been having
romantic feelings for each other this whole time.
They've had moments of sexual tension. And then
he's like, yeah, so I am. I want like six kids,
babe. I mean, not with you. With anybody named
Nancy. Anybody named Nancy Wheeler. Anyone with
Nancy Wheeler who lives in Indiana. Anyone who's
Nancy Wheeler who lives in Indiana with guns
in her room. So, chop chop. I would like to mention,
he has six kids. Yeah. He already does. He has
six kids. And they're kind of mom and dad to
six kids. So... Name them. I don't know. You
nailed it, Steve. So, we're talking Dustin. We're
talking Mike. We're talking Will. Mike. Yep.
We're talking Max. Lucas. Lucas. Max and Eleven.
And Eleven. No Erica? I think Erica's too much
of a wild card. Unless you want to swap out Erica
and Eleven, because Steve isn't often with Eleven.
That's so true. I will give you that. We're going
to swap out Eleven and Erica. Either way, it's
still six. Yeah. Yeah, he's got six kids. During
this episode... Nancy says we got to go back
to the upside down. And everybody's kind of like,
whoa, wait, what? Eddie, they focus in on Eddie.
And he says no. He's the only one to really flat
out. No other listening. He doesn't want to hear
it say no. And that's just sad. And I miss him.
Eddie. You know, Sam, you don't always have to
face down a horde of angry soldiers by yourself.
I don't? Buckle up, Schmisseners. No. It's our
Sansa's smarter than John category. What is the
most important character moment? I've got honorable
mentions. Hopper's monologue about being cursed
to Enzo, I think, is a great character moment.
It's one of the few moments he really has this
season of being like, let's have an actual character
moment at all. And it's so great. Because it
helps tie him back to the Hawkins and everything.
Will's monologue to Mike that you were just talking
about, where he basically professes his love
to Mike, I think is also another incredible character
moment. And maybe would have won if we didn't
have this other one, which you may now reveal.
Eddie diving into the water. After Steve, Nancy,
and Robin. Also the acting before that where
he's like, this is stupid, this is stupid, this
is stupid. And he's like pacing on the boat and
then he like weighs too much and flips into the
water accidentally. Yes. So good. Yes. So good.
He didn't have to. No. And he does. Yeah. And
for a guy who always runs, as he says, he didn't
run. He continues to not run. He continues to
stay with them. And he continues. Exactly. I
know you just lost a hand. Eddie. Dear Eddie.
But listen up. It's the I am your father category
for most iconic character moment. You've nailed
it. So it's not a character moment on this one,
guys. It is a scene. It's them riding. It's the
Scoobies and the Doobies riding their bikes down
the road from the wheelers to Eddie's trailer.
Both on the upside down and the right side up.
I will argue this is a character, iconic character
moment. Because the bikes are essentially characters
in Stranger Things at this point. And this is
their one moment. It is an awesome. Oh my gosh.
It's like just as good as when Hopper jumps into.
The tunnel, and then it flips upside down. This
moment of bike, bike, bike, bike, turnover, flip
over, other people, bike, bike, bike, bike, bike,
so good. And way better visually than listening
to me going bike, bike, bike, bike, bike. Everybody
sit down. It's time for our I am Iron Man. Most
iconic and most important scene category. Take
one choice. There's one choice. Eleven blasting
one into the upside down and his Vecna transformation.
Couldn't be anything else. It's that. Because
you get it from both Nancy's perspective and
Eleven's perspective. It's really cool. And also
comes with way, way crazy amount of information.
So crack open that encyclopedia. As Elijah Wood
once said, no, how could we have known? Where
we discuss the most important information disseminated
to the fandom over these four episodes. The Hawkins
version of the Upside Down was created the day
Will disappeared and the day Elle opened the
gate. That's huge information. A huge, like,
people have been asking, when did this start?
Like, does it mirror where, like, okay, so they
built a new building and so now this exists in
the Upside Down? Because we never got to see
the Starcourt Mall as an Upside Down location.
That was never a thing. But no, it turns out
it's the day that Will goes missing. The day
that Eleven creates the gate. Now, I have a theory
for Season 5 that I've come up with after thinking
about this a lot. My theory is that it is not
Vecna who imprints Hawkins into the Upside Down.
And it's not Eleven that does it. I think it's
Will. I think when Will goes there, he's got
powers. I'm convinced of that at this point.
He may be way more powerful than either of them,
and his subconscious started taking over the
Upside Down more than Beckness could. Interesting.
Yeah. I don't know if I'm right, but it's a theory
that I like. I like it. Yeah. Great. I like the
theory. I do really like it. We'll see. We'll
see. We shall see. Then we shall see. Then we
shall know. Keep your horses safe. It's the,
I'm gonna make them an offer we can't refuse.
Your line readings get better and better. Thank
you. Thank you. I'm working on it. Good. I was
wrong this whole time. I wasn't cursed. I am
the curse. That's a great one. That's from Hopper's
whole spiel. So good. A comedy one here. Is black
not the highest color? When Joyce is, Murray
says he has a black belt and then says that he
can't fight somebody and Joyce is like, is black
not the highest color? So good. Another really
impactful one. How do you expect to stop the
devil if you don't believe he's real? Right.
We talked about this one with Jason. I wrote
this one down and I legitimately don't remember
who says it. I think it's Yuri or Murray, but
it's bada bada boom. It's a great memory for
the line for not having remembered it. Yes. Then
we have, I know what it's like to be different,
to be alone in this world, which I believe was
one to 11 in the memories before. Before the
Dark Time. Before the Empire. Music. We need
music. This is music. This one might be it for
me. I have this one as well. It's just Eddie
Munson's delivery of this. It's the emphasis.
It's how much he's like disdaining of all the
popular Bowie, Madonna, the Beatles. He's just
such disdaining of that. And he's got all this
metal stuff and he's just like shaking the cassette
in her face. So good. So funny. You heard her.
Keys. Map. Let's go. Murray. From Murray. Rumors.
Continues to have great lines. Yeah, absolutely.
You took all the lines that I was going to do
with the exception of this one. This is Eddie
Munson when he's first in the Upside Down. And
he goes, so this place is like Hawkins, but with
monsters and shit. And Nancy just goes, pretty
much. That's all the explanation that Eddie needs.
It's so good. It's so good. I just, I love how
just. Matter of fact, Eddie is about everything.
Like they explain this wild, insane story to
him. And he's just like, okay, cool. So, you
know, bad dude in people's minds. All right.
This is Hawkins, but with monsters. Cool. Check.
Moving on. Love it. Dust off that card deck and
get ready to shuffle. It's our Joker category
for who is the MVP of this episode. All right.
So I've got. Two honorable mentions. Murray,
he does a lot of Russian speaking. He gets them
into the base. He's the reason why Hopper's alive.
Also Hopper. Yes. He just, in general, does a
lot in his little action -adventure setting.
There's a lot of physical things that that man
does constantly throughout these episodes. Yes.
Both of them are - As not -fat -anymore Rambo.
Not -fat -anymore Rambo. What was that scientist's
name? Alex. Oh. Thanks, Alexi. Rest in peace,
bud. But they're off the podium. The podium to
me is a mixture of it's either Steve, Nancy,
Dustin, or Max. And I'll go through them in order
of who I think is fourth to first. So I'll give
you my winner last. Steve. Okay. Okay, he explores
the lake. He confirms the gate. He protects everybody.
He's emotionally brave. He also, like, survives
a choking out by a bat with its tail. Yeah. Nancy.
Isn't overcome by Vecna's attack, doesn't lose
her head, and is able to provide the information
that he gives her and help form the Vecna plan.
Hugely important. And jumps immediately after
Steve to go save her. Very much so. Then there's
Max, who gives herself up as bait, protects Eddie
from the cops, and enables the plan moving forward
into the finale. Yeah, there's a lot. But then
there's the guy who really does it for me in
these. Four episodes. His name is the serial
killer of Hawkins. This 12 -year -old boy. Now,
Dustin figures out using electricity to communicate
with the Doobies in the Upside Down, remembering
how Will did it, theorizes Watergate and Motorhome
Gate, and confirms it with the help of everybody
else, and gets everybody out of the Upside Down
who's stuck there. then also points out Eleven's
remote travel limitations, and that is the catalyst
for their plan with using Max's bait to go and
kill Vecna. Definitely. It's Dustin, right? Yeah,
he really puts it all together. Yeah, it has
to be. He puts it all together. He is the linchpin
in all of the big discovery moments. Yeah. And,
yeah, he nails it. All of these episodes end
up being sort of... How do you get to the plan
for the finale, which is how television works
in a show like this. He is the person who really
is doing the heavy listing on the plans. Once
we actually get to the plan, he does like diddly
squat. But. Unfortunately, yes. Unfortunately,
yes. But. Also, I would put up here for LVP,
that would be the least valuable player, would
be Mike for these four episodes. I think you
could make a legitimate – no other season, as
much as I would like to do it for any other season,
no other seasons or episodes that we've done
could you put him remotely near into the LVP
conversation. But Argyle, Jonathan, and William,
and Mike over these four episodes are all like,
what are we doing, kids? Yes. But Mike gets the
LVP because Jonathan is – Very encouraging to
Will. And the driver. Setting up that whole situation.
And the driver. And he's calming Argyle. And
he's handling all of these things. Will is bolstering
Mike. And is having these big emotional moments.
And is having these connections. And having Mike
understand that he's the heart and all of these
things. Argyle. Can pinpoint military tire tread.
Wildly. Wildly. And essentially is the one who
finds Nina and gets them there and has a few
little moments where he's actually helpful. But
Mike whines and freaks out and has to be helped
along. And just is very woe is me the entire
time. LVP. First LVP in the history of this podcast.
Clean your evil air and get ready for I was the
turkey all along category. What is the biggest
takeaway viewers should leave with in preparation
for season? Five. Vecna is one, lest we forget,
who kills people through their own mind like
Freddy Krueger in dreams, but it's in their mind
this time, not just their dreams, and he absorbs
everything about them. Also, in addition to what
we said last episode, he wants to make the world
in his own way, and Eleven stopped him. After
he killed all the other numbers except eight,
he asks Eleven to join him. She refuses. And
she beats him in a fight with her love memory,
banishing one slash Henry to the upside down
and creating Vecna. Yeah. Awesome. I mean, I,
yeah. That's enough said. We've done it. Yep.
Dearest boyfriends. It's me. Ask Aragog, your
local dating advice columnist. Today's public
service announcement is about creating lasting
long -distance relationships. If you're going
to attempt one, please don't lie about where
you're applying for college, the reason that
you can't come during spring break, and what
you've been doing with your life for 12 months.
Ignore me at your own peril, for your scarf -wearing,
gun -wielding journalist girlfriend may be swooned
by a hairy -chested, well -groomed babysitter
who lavishly lathers her with dreams of six.
Children. Sex. Children. Thank you, dear listeners
for listening to this episode of Fandom Schmandom.
If you'd like to discuss this episode or any
other episode we've done, please hit us up on
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out there. And with that, we're out, y 'all.
Don't forget to tip your water gates and your
trailer gates. Fare thee well. Fandom Schmandum
was created by Sam Williams and Sierra Obermark.
The show is produced by Avelia Lieb. The editor
is Brittany Fisher. The music is by Jeremiah
Alves. Jason is questioned and realizes the police
do not believe in Jason's story. L puts a stop
to him and causing Vecna to become Vecna. Who's
Vecna? It's Vecna's evil -er twin. Evil -er twin.
I grew out of a tentacle. I ate my twin outside
of the womb. And I was the turkey all along.
I was the turkey all along. Okay, let me start
that off again. I was the tentacle all along.
To succinct it this less that the words happened.
To succinct this to what? Less what? Kill me.
Okay. To succinct this less. That's the slogan
of Fandom Shmandom. It's the tagline. To succinct
this less. You thought we were going to make
this more succinct. No, we're doing it less so
for you. It will be really confusing and convoluted.
Oh boy. Okay. I like also that both of us have
gone into recently on the pods. Every time we
mess up words, we just go into a big hero six
month. But her win makes some of the other kitchen.