Welcome to Fandom Shmandom, the fandom podcast
that covers everything you love and more. I'm
Sam Williams. And I'm Sierra Obermark. Today's
episode, we will be gregariously gabbing about
Stranger Things Season 4, Episodes 1 through
4. And without further ado, we will, as Roger
Smith says, dive on in. So get up to 88, because
it's time to travel back. To our story recap.
Episode 1 of Season 4. L once killed all the
staff and all the other telekinetic children,
other than 8, and opened a gate in the children's
playtime section of Hawkins Lab. Anyway, California!
Things are super good for Elle, whose letters
aren't filled with lies at all. And also super
good for Will, who is quietly absorbed in his
art. And super good for Jonathan, who's getting
high all the time. And super, super good for
Joyce, who definitely loves her job. Definitely.
Back in Hawkins, the Hellfire Club and basketball
tournament have a conflict. Which actually means
drama, since Lucas... It's on both. And Mike
and Dustin must choose where their loyalties
lie. Oh, and have we mentioned Max is super depressed?
Joyce is sent a weird Russian doll. Elle hates
school. Mike is out to Cali for spring break.
And welcome, Eddie Munson, hellfire captain and,
unfortunately, drug dealer. Eddie? is helping
a young woman named Chrissy get over her awful,
terrifying, possibly real nightmares. And while
he's trying to supply her with strong drugs in
his trailer apartment thingy, Chrissy floats
to the ceiling. Not metaphorically because of
the drug, but literally. In her mind, she is
being hunted by... Is that Vecna's bells I am
hearing? And is killed in her mind. and in real
life, gruesomely, so that's nice. Episode 2.
Robin has a crush on a girl in band. Steve can't
find anyone that measures up to Nancy. Nancy
won't go visit Jonathan in California, and Jonathan
won't come out to see Nancy, and me thinks they
both protest too much. Murray joins Joyce to
see a note left in the Russian doll that says
Hopper is still alive. But is Hopper even still
alive? Yes. Yes, he is. Local heartthrob and
way too old to be in high school, Jason, the
basketball man, has figured out that Chrissy
is dead and thinks Eddie did it. He gets the
whole basketball team, including Lucas, to hunt
down the Hellfire leader. Speaking of Eddie.
Dustin and Max are on the hunt and enlist Robin
and Steve's help. Eleven is lying to Mike about
having friends in California, and Will tries
to get her to stop, but Eleven's friends, that's
in air quotes, do a good job of bullying her,
which leads to Eleven breaking noses and hearts.
Joyce and Murray make contact with a Russian
guard in Hopper's prison who is helping to orchestrate
a breakout. Vecna kills Nancy's managing editor
while they're out trying to investigate Chrissy's
murder, and Eddie is found in a lake house. Episode
3. The U .S. government is infighting about whether
Eleven should be kept alive or not. Some people
think she's the cause of the weird deaths in
Hawkins. Others, like Dr. Sam from Season 2,
do not. Mike is upset that Eleven hit a girl
in the face with a skate, and Joyce and Murray
make up a conference in Alaska that they need
to go to, but really, they're rescuing Hoop.
Lucas and the basketball hunters are on the prowl,
but they haven't found Eddie yet. Eddie, Dustin,
Max, Steve, and Robin are still at the lake house,
brainstorming about finding Vector to prove he
killed Chrissy and not Eddie. Meanwhile... Eleven
and Mike are having trivial fights about how
Mike won't say that he loves Eleven anymore before
cops show up to arrest Eleven for the skate to
the face. She's taken away to jail, but lo and
behold, Dr. Sam has come to take her away to
maybe get her powers back? Joyce and Mary, dear
Mary, arrive in Alaska, which is freezing in
springtime, and Hooper gets a fellow inmate to
loosen his ankle shackle, breaking his foot in
the process. and allowing him to slide his shackle
off. Nancy joins with our Scooby -Doo gang after
her managing editor is killed, and her and Ruben
go off to research Hawkins' history, only to
find that some gruesome murders in the 50s were
blamed by the murderer on a phantom. That sounds
awfully like Vecna. Project Research Victor Creel
has now begun. Correspondingly, the other half
of our Scooby -Doobies have tracked down Chrissy's
therapist file, and Max realizes that the symptoms
Chrissy showed, the ones that the managing editor
showed, are the same ones she's experienced the
past several days. And now, Max has seen Vecna's
clock, which means Max has 24 hours before Vecna
will kill her. Episode 4 Cops are watching Mike,
Will, and Jonathan as Eleven has been taken from
them. Jonathan takes some initiative and gets
his stoner buddy to pick them up just at the
right time since the US military that wants Elle
dead has come to kill them. They flee a gunfight,
but not before one of the special forces guarding
them is incapacitated and kept for torture. The
Russian guard helping Hopper, Dmitry, is coordinating
efforts between Hopper and Joyce and has enlisted
the help of a pilot named Yuri, who double -crosses
everyone for more money. Yuri drugs Murray and
Joyce, and just when Hopper has removed his ankle
shackle, beat up some guards, and snowmobiled
away, he and Dmitry are captured and thrown in
prison. Again. Lucas has abandoned the basketball
band of man -child murderers to help protect
Eddie and tricked them for a wrong direction.
He's with Steve, Dustin, and Max, who is furiously
writing letters in the event that she dies. Nancy
and Robin need to research Victor Creel more,
so they pretend to be psych students and delve
into Silence of the Lambs, where Victor Creel
divulges his story of being haunted and his family
killed by Vecna. The only thing that saved him
was music playing that night, which he followed
out of Vecna's mind attack. But the audience
can't help but worry, mostly about Max, who seems
minutes away from death. She has the boys drive
her to her mom's to drop off letters. She won't
tell Lucas anything or engage with him about
her fate at all, and then asks to go to Billy,
where she does something Hopper knows nothing
about, a heart -to -heart with Billy's gravestone.
Only, Billy is alive and talking to her. Wait,
no, that's Vecna. He's here to kill Max. Joyce
and Robin just barely get the information that
music might save Max, and Lucas knows just the
song. Running up that hill is shoved into Max's
ears as she faces Vecna, and she sprints for
her life, away from Vecna and to the portal in
her head to live at least one more day. Fantastico!
But... Before we get to the nitty -gritty schmitty,
we welcome our wonderful expert and executive
producer of the podcast, Aurelia, to provide
us with the vital information that we need to
know all about Eddie Munson this time. So welcome,
Aurelia. Give us that integral info. Sam and
Theo, do you copy? Right. Hello! So I have three
books to cover today. One of them is a bit longer
than the other two, so I'll give it the most
focus. But that is also the first one I'm going
to talk about. So that book is Flight of the
Icarus by Caitlin Schneiderhan. And it's set
in 1984, so it's about two years before season
four, which is quite interesting and good to
know. So it's sort of around when all of the...
the Stranger Things shenanigans start to happen.
This book is about Eddie Munson. It's his origin
story, and it's detailing his intense struggle
for self -discovery and belonging while trying
to escape his past. It explains his move to Uncle
Wayne's and the origin of his drug dealing as
a direct result of his father's criminal scheme
and the devastating loss of his mother's possessions.
It is really sort of about the lore of the escape
ticket, the whole book. The central theme is
Eddie's fierce desire to break free from Hawkins,
which he sees as the perpetual tomb of horrors.
His lifeline is a record label contract, and
the entire plot is driven by his attempts to
raise money for Corroded Coffin, which is his
band, and they are getting a demo tape. His one
-way ticket to a rock and roll dream in Los Angeles.
This need for money forces a confrontation with
his estranged father, Al Manson, the schemer
Eddie desperately fears becoming. Eddie helps
him not just for cash, but for a subconscious
shot at the one thing he's never had, his father's
validation. The book is also about finding his
own, like, tribe. So, in stark contrast to his
father, the book highlights Uncle Wayne. as Eddie's
true Albert Imperfect father figure, who offers
unconditional support and acceptance. And the
story also offers a deeper look at the formation
of Hellfire Club and his band. These groups are
where the little lost sheep find their tribe
and are finally free to be themselves. This includes
his best friend Ronnie, who is not only a fantastic
character, but also an Arrow Ace icon, we love
to see it, who accepts Eddie completely. The
book reinforces how Hawkins already perceived
Eddie as a freak long before the Upside Down
due to his passion for metal and D &D. And we
also see a lot throughout the book how members
of the Hellfire Club get bullied by the jocks
of the school and how Eddie feels responsible
and steps in and is the protector of those kids
who don't feel like they belong otherwise. Ultimately,
despite the tragic, like, non -supernatural dangers
he faces, the narrative proves that Eddie was
always a hero at heart. He shines as a natural,
chaotic, good bard and protector, especially
through his friends and burgeoning protective
connection with Chrissy Cunningham, which we
are introduced in these episodes, showcasing
the heroism that would define his final and unforgettable
moments in season four. I think, in general...
Because we only get to see Eddie for this season,
as far as we know, at least. I would recommend
reading this book because it gives you so much
of what defines Eddie. Like his whole, the whole
book, he struggles with people comparing him
to his father when his father's basically absent
for most of his life. And he's, you know, he's
perceived as, oh, he's a Munson. So he's just
gonna be in trouble anyway. He's gonna cause
trouble when really Eddie's just a high school
student trying to get by. So, yeah, and also
it's quite nice to see how he's trying to make
it in the music world. The next book I want to
talk to you, and you will pick up on the theme,
these are all books that are sort of set between
season three and season four, trying to just
give you a little bit more insight. This one's
called Lucas on the Line by Zuyi Davis. And it's
obviously about Lucas, a character we've known
since season one, but because of the time skip
between season three and four, This book focuses
on what's happening and, you know, explains a
little bit more why when we come into season
four, the party seems disrupted. And, you know,
the friends are not where we last seen them.
They're not the close, tight -knit group of friends
anymore. There has been, you know, obviously
a separation, so to speak. So the book focuses
on Lucas' struggle to balance his multiple selves.
You know, there's the nerdy party member. as
well as the basketball star. Although throughout
this book, he's not a star yet. He just starts
to get himself immersed with basketball and he
learns how to play basketball. But it's also
about striving to embrace his blackness and confronting
the realization that he is an outsider in the
ways his white friends are not. So it's a lot
about, we're all outsiders who have been bullied,
but hey, I'm also one of the only black people
around here. It's a lot about his decision to
join the basketball team to escape that bullying
and invisibility. And that causes the significant
strain on his relationships with Mike and Dustin,
which we then see as the season opens. And also
like his difficulty to balance like the old loyalties
with his friends, as well as like his new social
life with the basketball team. Also shows you
a little bit of like the aftermath of the Star
Court. So this is obviously, as I said, between
season three and four. And it explains Luca's
distance and emotional exhaustion at the start
of season four. It shows him struggling to be
a supportive boyfriend to Max while dealing with
her depression and deterioration of their relationship.
And we also get some family insight. So the book
provides a closer look at the Sinclair family
dynamic. specifically Lucas' relationship with
his sister Erica and his parents. And also the
uncle here makes a big impact on Lucas because
he's the one actually encouraging him to connect
more with his black roots and what it means to
be a black person in America, which his father
and mother sort of almost discourage him a little
bit, not to not know the story, but make an effort
to fit in and not stand out because of their
fear that it'll only... cause more trouble for
them and for him. So it's, yeah, it's a very
relevant book at the time that we're living now,
as much obviously as the time it is set for.
And it really is sort of nice to see that, you
know, Lucas perspective, because as season four
opens, you sort of see the rift in the friend
group. But here you get some more details as
to why Lucas chose to connect with like different
members of the high school society. And then
the last book I want to talk to you about is
called The Dustbin Experiment by J .L. DeMato.
And this, just like the Lucas book, focuses on
another member of the party that we've known
since season one. And it sort of follows the
same sort of trajectory like the Lucas book did.
So it's about why we are at with the status of
the friend group by season four. So it explores
the bittersweet reality of adolescent friendship,
where Mike, Lucas and Will's new priorities cause
the party to drift apart. Dustin attempts to
force a reconnection through a science competition,
and that's sort of highlighting his struggle
to hold on to the past. The competition becomes
a coming -of -age moment, where Dustin's intellect
and scientific talent take center stage, allowing
him to shine on his own terms and gain new understanding
of his place in Hawkins. So again, it's just
really good to sort of see Dustin's perspective
and also see how he changes in that time that
isn't shown on the screen. Crucially, the story
establishes the canon beginnings of Dustin's
close big brother -like bond with Eddie Munson,
which, you know, I think if you're watching season
four, you can sort of see that they're clearly
quite close, but here you actually get to see
how that started. Because there's a road trip
and a charismatic senior becomes like an unlikely
mentor aiding Dustin's project and solving a
mystery. And yeah, again, both of those books
are like really helpful to understand more about,
you know, those characters that we probably know
the best throughout like going into season four
with like the addition of other characters. Because
we've been watching them for like three seasons
at that point. But it's really nice to sort of
see what's happened after the buyers moved away
and what has caused this drift in the Hawkins
Center friend group. So yeah, that is my summary
of the three books. As always, I would recommend
you read them yourselves. But if you don't have
time, I've hopefully did them justice with this
summary. And with that, for the last time, this...
This season, I'm going to have to say, over and
out. Okay, so Flight of Icarus first. Your initial
reactions, Miss Obermark? I think it's really
interesting that we have another kind of absentee
father but substitute father situation. I feel
like this is a fairly common theme throughout.
Stranger Things. Dustin, Eleven, Eddie. Yeah.
Mike, even to some extent. Yeah. Oh, oh, will
I have things to say about that man later in
later talking about season four. Also, Will.
Don't know how I forgot Will and Jonathan. Yeah,
Will and Jonathan. I guess we don't really know
anything about Steve's family and Robin's family
and stuff, but. We don't meet them either, so.
There's an absence of fathers in this situation,
but I do like that there's more of a context
for his relationship with his uncle. Yeah. Because
we can see in the season that they are very close
and Wayne really, truly cares for his nephew,
despite the issues that both of them may have.
So. I think it's nice to be able to have that
and to also have Eddie constantly trying to escape
or run away. Which, you know, definitely ties
into his whole journey of self -exploration and
eventual realization and final moments and all
of that. Yeah, I think that's super interesting
because we know for those of you who are like,
no, no, don't tell me spoilers. This is a spoiler
for the very end of the season. We know that
he ends sacrificing himself to save the town
that he hates, which is a brutal situation. Cause
at least Bob in season two was like, I love Hawkins,
even though he was ready to leave. Like he loved
his town. You know, there's just, uh, it just
really sucks to have Eddie constantly wanting
to leave and his bravery. saving his friends
which is all good but then he ends up dying for
the town that he's he's wanted to leave it the
entire time that hasn't really picked him up
or helped him out or care for him and think that
he's a murderer that just that really sucks it's
awesome to also have more music context i didn't
really realize that he was like that much searching
for a los angeles i want to go to capital records
and i want to get discovered and i want to do
this thing like i they don't even really build
up the music that much No, not really. In season
four, I know we get him saying like, I play the
guitar, still do. And I was in this band that
Chrissy saw way back when. And how could you
forget that name? And then they actually run
into the band and the Jason and the basketball
man run into the band and beat them up. And then,
of course, you realize how good he is at music
because he just straight slays in like my all
time favorite Stranger Things moment. But it's
really cool to see that that's. There's so much
more behind that than just he's using the talent
that he wants to leave Hawkins in order to save
Hawkins. Really neat. Lucas on the Line. Lucas
on the Line seems like an incredibly important
book for Lucas's character. It's like the one
thing that they tepidly get into. On the show,
we get a couple of moments of the tensions around
race with Lucas versus the rest of the party.
I'm thinking specifically about the Ghostbusters
moment where Mike and him are both the same character.
He's like, well, no, you've got to be. And I
was like, why? Because, because, because, because
he's black. And like, that's a moment that I
think really works. And of course, they also
address a little bit of race with the way in
which there's like, Max is, isn't racist. And
her brother is racist. And Max falls for Lucas.
But Billy is. Sort of an example of what a lot
of that town might feel. Right. So it seems like
a really awesome book. I really want to read
this one after hearing. I mean, I want to read
the other one, too. But I think that's really
interesting. And I really want the context of
Max and Lucas's relationship. What I am most
interested in with this book is Lucas and Erica
together. Yeah. Because. You know, obviously
we get Erica and we get Lucas, but season four
is the first time that we really get Erica and
Lucas in the same place at the same time. Yeah.
Yeah. And only really at the very, very end.
So I would love to know a little bit more about
them and also his parents, because we have little
bits and pieces, but the most that we see his
parents is when. all of them are in trouble and
the police are questioning all of the parents.
And then the parents are all coming together
to talk about their children. And that's the
most that we see the rest of the Sinclair family.
So I think it would be, that's the section that
I'd be most interested in because I feel like
a lot of the, they do a pretty good job of touching
on the important aspects of, Friendship strain
and him wanting to be popular and why and how
that affects his relationship with his existing
friends. So I think that that's maybe touched
on enough. So I would I think that more context
is important and we have some really interesting
moments because I think that some of Lucas's
best moments are specifically about that topic.
Yeah, totally. So. That could maybe even just
lead to more personal growth from him. Yeah,
I agreed. Very much agreed. And then on to –
listen, Max has been my favorite character for
forever for this show. But on this rewatch, Dustin
may have a chance to steal the crown. So on to
maybe my favorite, if not tied for my favorite
Stranger Things character in Dustin. What did
you think of the Dustin experiment? I think it
seems like a – I struggle to say cute, but I
want to say it just because, yeah, it's like
a cute mini story of potentially not larger consequences,
but very much a, it's very much kind of a microcosm
of the relationship between all the boys, but
also just a nice moment of really seeing Dustin
because I was hit. on this last rewatch, the
very end of episode, the final episode of this
season, Dustin is alone. And that bothered me
a lot. on this rewatch where all these other,
all the, you know, we're getting these little
moments of all the other characters going out
to see what's going on. Uh, and, and you even
get those dual, those, those duos, right? 11
standing. And then it's Mike and Will and Joyce
and, uh, Hopper. And then you're in Murray and
Demetri and Murray. No, it's Nancy and. Oh, you're
right. It's Nancy and Jonathan. Yeah. But then
you also have Steve and Robin are together. Right.
And the Sinclairs are with Max in the hospital,
so we don't really get a close -up of them. But
then it's just Dustin alone. Talk to Uncle Wayne,
yeah. Yeah, but even after that when they're
all walking outside. Oh, right, of course. And
it just – it really hit me on this one and I
did not like it. I didn't care for that moment
because I just was like, my boy. It's been really
interesting with Dustin, too, because through
this rewatch, the first season, they're all so
together. Yeah. But even then, Dustin's like,
I know I'm on the outs. I know Lucas is your
best friend, and you're his best friend. And
the mic has to be like, no, you're my best friend,
too. It's like one of Mike's better moments of
the whole series. And then in season two, he
gets separated out, and he's with Steve. And
then with season three, he's separated out when
he comes back. With his, you know, cerebro that
he's created. And it's just like, he stays with
the science. He stays with the sort of AV club
stuff. But not everybody else does. Mike is just
kind of willowing out there in quote unquote
leadership and love territory. Will is like.
The shadow monster's proxy and also an artist.
Eleven's doing her own thing. Lucas is sort of
finding his own way, and he has a whole different
dynamic with Max. It's really interesting to
see. I didn't really realize how much Dustin
is kind of alone and then alone and then alone.
Even with that dynamic with Steve, he's really
separated out from the party more than anybody
else. Yeah, definitely. And it did also, you
know, obviously... we had to make way for Dustin's
relationship with Eddie in this season. And Dustin
really needed somebody at school with him to
be that bond that he can share. But it did bother
me that he isn't with Steve. And Steve and he
were just so close for two full seasons. I know.
And had that brother relationship. And then suddenly
it's just gone. Well, they really needed to set
up. love triangle for season five. I know. But
I am still bothered by how much Steve is like,
wait, I kind of want to be with, um, I, uh, let
me be with Nancy. Yeah. And like, he is with
Dustin a lot at the beginning of this season.
Like in these first four episodes, they are together
and Steve is doing his babysitter stuff, but
then it's really separated out in the next two
of our podcast episodes. Yeah. But I just, yeah,
I just, it feels like Dustin. just keeps losing
everyone. And I do wonder if that's going to
play a larger role than we've thought of up until
this point. We haven't really talked about kind
of Dustin's role in season five all that much.
And I do wonder if his loneliness and his having
lost that closeness with Steve, because Steve's
on his other mission, having lost his friends,
having lost Eddie. If that's really going to
impact him almost in a Max like way of Max losing
Billy. So I'm now very, very curious where Dustin's
character is going. Me too. To be continued.
Well, thank you very, very much, Aurelia, for
all of that wonderful information and backstory.
Great amount of research. A lot of time spent
reading. Yes, fantastic. Thank you. Find your
donut holes. Found them. It's time for our Knives
Out category, where we sleuth out which three
storylines are the most vital to pay attention
to these first four episodes. Here we go. I gotta
tell you something, Sierra. There is no donut
hole in the desert. It's just a mouthful of sand.
Dear listeners and listeners, you will hear nothing
about Eleven or Jonathan or Will or Mike or their
friend whose name escapes me in my head. Argyle.
Argyle. You will find nothing about those in
this section over the next three episodes. And
you will hear more from us on why. But moving
forward, we have three of those that have nothing
to do with California or the desert. Number one,
Hoop Hopper. He's alive. And, of course, Joyce
and Murray are there. Number two, Chrissy is
dead. Chrissy, wake up. I don't like this. Sorry,
had to. Couldn't resist. Chrissy's dead. And
it was Vecna. Also, Max and Dustin. And Steven
Robin. And Eddie. All of those people's storylines.
And then, of course, there's the... Part two
of Chrissy is dead. And it was Victor Creel,
the Nancy and Robin storyline. Yes. So our first
storyline of Hopper and Joyce and Murray. Hopper
jumped for it when the explosion occurred. You
guys, that's why we didn't see an official body
death, et cetera, et cetera, because he was very
athletic for a moment and just went for it. Joyce.
Gets a ransom style note in a Russian doll in
a box from Russia saying that Hop is alive and
rightfully, honestly, calls Murray about it.
Murray thinks that this means it's either a lie
or if Hopper is alive, he's been captured and
tortured into finding Joyce as well. Joyce just
thinks that he escaped and is trying to contact
her via a friend. Murray is more right than Joyce.
Neither of them are completely right, but Murray
is more right because Hopper is getting tortured
to find out about Joyce. They call the number
on the letter and they speak to Enzo, not a friend,
not KGB, who tells them to go to Nome, Alaska.
Shout out Nome. Shout out Nome! Enzo lets Hopper
know that the money for the plane is on the way
and to get going on his breakout plan, which
is to get his shackles broken enough to get them
off, basically breaking his leg in the process.
Joyce and Murray get the money to Yuri, not to
be confusing at all, a mildly insane fella who
takes way too long to do everything. Hopper makes
his escape from the camp. Turns out Yuri is the
worst. He's drugged Joyce and Murray and sold
out Enzo and Hopper to the KGB. Amazing. Tell
us all about this, Sierra. Why is this such an
important storyline? Well, it's an important
storyline for a number of reasons. The first
reason being Hopper's alive and we love him.
And that's it. That's the only reason. Hopper's
back. Yay! That's the reason. Woohoo! The second
huge thing is that this sets up... The Russians'
continuing role in the Upside Down and the creatures
that lie therein. They're housing demogorgons,
people, because they're a bright bunch. And they
want to keep their power going. When you see
a weapon, you train the weapon. Sure. Sure. Let's,
yeah, you know. A bear, a Demogorgon. It's the
same, right? Sure. For sure. Trainable. Absolutely.
Yeah. Training Demogorgons. Definitely not going
to come back to bite you in the face, arm, leg,
toe, belly button. Swallow you whole. NBD. What's
the line that you've been saying all night? Nothing
can stop you. No one, nobody can stop me. That's
what the Demogorgon says. I thought that was
the theme song. Oh my gosh. Okay, good, good,
good, good. Keep going. So those are, I mean,
I think really the main reasons why this is important.
Really bringing back what the heck else the Russians
have been up to. Also, why Hopper is there? Because
it's not just a camp for building whatever they're
building, working on a railroad? Question mark?
Something. Yeah. I mean, okay, so that's like
an allusion to Russian work camps, right? I don't
know that it makes a ton of sense that they're
working on a railroad. And also, how's Demogorgon?
It's kind of like, what is this place? Like,
what's happening? Like, the prison just happens
to be next to this railroad? Or is the railroad
there to ship stuff into the prison? It's also
like, 1984, are we still building railroads like
this? Like, sort of question marks there. It's
not 1984, it's 1986. You know, it's clearly a
wonderful sort of nostalgia to the Cold War still
going on, and it makes a lot of sense that Russia's
continuing to do similar research to the United
States. It very much reflects kind of real life
there. I will say, I'm thoroughly annoyed by
the way in which they explain Hopper surviving.
Mm -hmm. It's not as bad as Benedict Cumberbatch's
Sherlock, where they, like, never actually answer
how he survives clearly dying. Don't they give,
like, three different potentials or something
like that? And they never say what actually happens.
That's much more frustrating. But I just am kind
of like, oh, okay, so we haven't seen this level.
We haven't seen that the thing goes down. The
little wire mesh cage platform that they've got,
it goes down at all. And the explosion doesn't
really affect that area at all. Like, it seemed
like at the end of season three that the whole
room overloads. And so a lot of people, you know,
in between those seasons were like, he jumps
into the Upside Down, he's stuck there now. Yeah.
Or a lot of people were like, actually, the Russians
came and got him out of the room completely before
it. They had like a trap door or something of
that nature. All of which I didn't like any of
those things. I guess it's really just, it's
hard to have saved him from that room in a satisfying
way, but I still don't love it. But I'm glad
that obviously I'm glad that he's here. He's
a great character. And it was it was kind of
clear in all of the the press that the Duffer
brothers did. They were like, what happens to
Han Solo at the end? Oh, my gosh. OK, he comes
back and return. It's fine. We get it. He's going
to return. I have one question. Is Yuri too similar
to Murray for you? Character wise or name wise?
Both. Name wise, it does bother me. There's so
many other names. Why Yuri Murray? I don't know.
I think they're going for an overt, hey, this
is the Russian Murray. I think it's not even
a wink or not. They're just like, look, it's
Murray, but he's Russian. Yeah. It's Murray,
but he's Russian. Russian nesting bearded men.
And also, it's like his evil twin. Yeah. I am
Retep and my name is Evil. It's a Family Guy
reference. I just, I think that it's, it doesn't
bother me, his personality. Okay. I, mainly because
I think that they tap into the whole he's the
evil part. pretty quickly. I think that if they
just left it as like yet another eccentric person,
the only way that I could have accepted it is
if Murray started getting really annoyed with
Yuri and then Joyce is just like, uh, hello.
Are you not seeing this? So I think that's the
only way that they could have made it work. But
I think, I mean, he has to be similar enough
for the whole ploy to, to. happen towards the
end of the season yeah where murray is yuri and
all of that but yeah it doesn't it doesn't really
bother me the names bother me but i like the
actual personality doesn't so much until we get
to the switch i remember my first watch being
a little bit like what is what's happening here
it it feels like a meta moment in the story where
it's self -referential in a way that it feels
overt and i was like i don't love this and then
when they do the switch i'm like oh i i can be
patient it's fine i actually i end up really
liking it at the end um but yeah that's my that's
my one question there okay storyline number two
chrissy is dead and it was vecta the max dustin
steve robin eddie edition okay so eddie munson
is selling drugs to chrissy Because Chrissy's
having horrible, awful, terrible nightmares that
are, like, real. And Vecna's coming to kill her.
Chrissy goes to the local drug dealer to try
and get help with calming herself down. Because
therapy and antidepressants and all that sort
of stuff aren't working for her. Chrissy and
Eddie end up having really incredible chemistry.
Like, mind -boggling, off -the -scene, great,
like... Wow, their relationship works so well.
That scene in the woods is incredible, where
they talk about the band and everything. Then
Chrissy comes over to get Special K, which I'm
guessing is, like, ketamine, even before it was
ketamine. I would assume something. And while
she's there, Vecna has his final mind attack
on her, and in front of Eddie, she does the whole
bone break, bone break, bone break, eyes go in,
I'm dead, and completely freaks out Eddie. Transition
to Max. Max sees this because she lives across
the trailer park from Eddie. So she sees Chrissy
and Eddie go into the trailer, but only Eddie
comes out screaming and looking scared, and the
lights flicker, and then Eddie gets into the
van and takes off. The fact that Max is an immediate,
like, lights flickered, PTSD, quickly, upside
down is kind of funny to me, but so be it. Max
sees the cops in the morning and goes to Dustin
with the information since she can't reach Lucas,
and Mike and company are in. California. Dustin
and Max take over the family video, where Steve
and Robin are brought into this story. After
calling around to all of Eddie's friends, the
video crew finds a guy named Reefer Rick, I wonder
what he does, who may know where Eddie is. After
arriving at the boathouse and finding a terrified
Eddie, they all share what they know, reassuring
Eddie they believe him, and figure out that the
person doing this must be Vecna, a dark sorcerer
with incredible powers. But how is he choosing
his victims? Max figures out Chrissy and Fred
were both seeing the school counselor and finds
their files, only to realize she's having the
same symptoms as the deceased. Max is having
many hallucinations and writes goodbye letters
to everyone she cares about because she knows,
and her whole crew knows, Vecna is coming to
kill her in less than 24 hours. So what's important
about this, y 'all? This is kind of the main
story. Of season four. The discovery of Vecna,
right? So Max and Eleven will, they're all benched
for this season to set up. You know, we can't
have Superpowered Girl here because she always
saves the day. We have to have Mike with Eleven
because he has no relevance to the story otherwise.
Even though I actually think it would be a really
cool idea to have him grow on his own away from
Eleven with this crew. But whatever. I'm not
the writers. And we can't have Will there because
he senses Vecna. He knows what's going on. He's
sort of a spy still on the inside. So they're
all benched. And when you bench Will, you've
got to bench Jonathan. And when you bench Jonathan,
his new friends are also benched. Here's the
main story where we've got this discovery of
Victor Creel, which also has Nancy, and we'll
get to her side of it in a second. But we have
the deaths going on. We've got Eddie's death,
where he witnesses Chrissy. We've got all of
Dustin and Max's trying to find Eddie, all of
that sort of stuff, all leading up to Max realizing
that she's the next victim, which is a huge plot,
like the plot. Why is Vecna choosing these specific
victims? And what are they for? So that gets
us, Max's part really is what gets us to what
is this for? Oh, four sacrificial deaths to open
up one really large gate from the Upside Down
into Hawkins. So that's what we're going for.
And that's what this is all about. Sierra, do
you have any other thoughts about this? I mean,
I think you summed it up pretty good with just
this is the main plot. So, you know, we have
all of this very important information. And Max
realizing that she's next is a huge and is a
huge bringing together of all the information
that we have so far. So I think that is really
the key is just. We have all these little bits
and pieces here and there. We figure out it must
be a sorcerer. How is he doing it? He must be
doing it this way. How is he choosing everybody?
And then once it all comes together and they
realize that Max is next on the list, we can
launch into the remainder of the season. So I
think that it's very interesting because we're
also only getting kind of half the story when
we're saying, okay, Vecna's fault. That Chrissy
is dead. Yeah. And that Fred is dead. And in
just a second, we'll get into the other half
of that story, the Victor Creel side, which I
really do like that it's almost like the exact
same story is being told in three parts. And
you're getting little bits and pieces. You're
slowly putting the puzzle together. kind of in
almost like a spiral circle all the way to the
middle where we, it all comes together. And we
have that really great scene of Henry one, Henry
one Vecna. What are we calling him? And everybody
says something different. Yeah, totally. Absolutely.
So I, I enjoy this a lot. I will also say, this
is, I think my favorite part of season four is
the max storyline. This is where a lot of the
heart of the story is. The audience is really
invested in keeping Max alive. We have not had
a character be so threatened with death in the
way that Max is, where it's like, everybody else
has died. How are we supposed to protect her
from this? All of that sort of stuff. And these
moments of Max writing letters, listening to
the song, escaping Vecna, are... incredibly hugely
emotional i mean they do this mid -series finale
at the end of season four with this incredible
run sequence with her escaping uh from the upside
down back to the outside so i think that's also
important from a storytelling standpoint this
is like it's such a heavy lifter of the emotional
force propelling us forward in the story like
you it's hard to put down what's going on it's
hard to stop watching because max is in danger
And lastly, we've got Chrissy is Dead and It
Was Victor Creel, the Nancy and Robin edition.
Yes, so Nancy is on team investigation. Once
she finds out about Chrissy and what's going
on at the trailer park, she heads out to go investigate
and she brings Fred along. Her managing editor.
Her managing editor, yes. Fred, who we've never
met before or seen before, same as Chrissy before
all this happens, starts to have these visions
and these hallucinations referencing a facial
scar that he got in a crash where someone died
last year. Please tell me more about that. He's
very Nigel coded from Harry Potter where he just
pops up out of nowhere. Anyways, so sorry. Please
continue. But is that Vecna's clock again? That's
a terrible clock noise, but you all get it. Yeah.
We know what we're talking about. You do too.
Fred wanders into the woods after the clock sound
and sees the clock on a coffin and people standing
about declaring him a murderer. Meanwhile, Eddie's
uncle starts to talk to Nancy and says that he
thinks that the killer is Victor Creel, who is
someone who back in the 50s killed his family,
cut out their eyes. Chrissy had her eyes missing.
This Victor Creel is in Pennhurst Asylum, but
maybe he got out, question mark. Yeah. So Nancy
and Robin. head to the library to look at old
newspapers and to find out more about Victor,
what happened. And they find out that Victor
claimed a demon had killed his family. So then
when the whole gang meets back up to discuss
Max's potential fate, Steve makes some great
points. How is Vecna getting through? How did
he get through before when there was no gate?
Why kill one family, vanish for 30 years, and
then start killing random teens? So he raises
a lot of points, and in order to get some answers,
we have to talk to Victor Krill. So Robin and
Nancy manage to score a meeting with the Pennhurst
director, and Robin, in a brilliant moment, manages
to talk their way into meeting Victor himself.
He tells his story, how his home, the town, and
his family was cursed by a demon, and the horrifying
nightmare that they lived and died in. Victor
Creel says that he followed an angel, a song,
and he was able to escape from the nightmare
that he had found himself in, where he was reliving
his worst memory. So then Nancy and Robin get
this vital, vital piece of information about
how to escape from Vecna and the situation that
a victim of his would find themselves in. And
is able to relay it to Dustin, thankfully, at
just the perfect moment in order to save Max
so that they can get her a song to follow. through
her mind back to reality. Right, because when
they're interviewing Victor Creel is when Max
is at the grave site of Billy and Vecna does
his final attack. So she's floating in the air.
Steve's freaking out. Dustin's freaking out.
Lucas is freaking out. Calling Nancy on the radio.
And they finally get that information. They're
able to put Kate Bush on and she runs. Max runs
for safety and lands. Back in Hawking. So, tell
me, Sierra, why is this important? Why did we
note this as our third biggest one? Because it's
really the other half of the main story. Because
this continues Max's plotline, why she is important
to this season, to Vecna's plot, etc. And also
explains, without fully explaining, because we
don't 100 % know why yet, but... it explains
more of some of Vecna's early victims and how
the Creel family is tied in to the plot at large.
We don't have all of the pieces yet, but we have
very important information about how to keep
somebody safe from Vecna, potentially. Not indefinitely,
but for at least a period of time, we have more
information about... what can happen when someone
succumbs to Vecna, what those people experienced
before they died, what Chrissy and Fred may have
went through beforehand. They're reliving their
worst memories. They're reliving the worst things
of their life. You know, Chrissy is being bullied
by her mom about her weight and what she looks
like and all of that. Fred has his whole, you're
a murderer thing because of a car accident. Then
we have Max with Billy. And so we're really getting
all of these moments that mirror Victor Creel's
moment when he was fighting in the war and made
a bad call and had to live with the consequences.
So, which is absolutely traumatizing and horrifying.
One of the saddest. bits that's just slid into
this whole season um but we get to also understand
okay well even if you live through vecna's attack
what does that look like for you your life is
kind of never going to be the same so absolutely
we're already you know in max is in immediate
danger but then also is still going to continue
to be in danger even after she quote, escapes.
So it's very, very important for kind of all
of those reasons and really building the puzzle
that is Vecna and his plot and who he is and
why. And it's amazing that Steve... brings in
such huge hammering questions. I mean, it's almost
a bit of, he's almost a bit reflective of the
audience, where he's, and they have these, like,
every season in Stranger Things, I'm not criticizing
the writing here, they occasionally, you need
to just overtly ask something so that the audience
can keep up with what's going on. But he asks,
like, why did he do this 30, like, why has he
disappeared for 30 years? Why, how did he get
through the last time? And, and I, It's so interesting
knowing what we know. It's like, oh, well, he's
one, and so it was him, this, and then he got
taken over by Brenner, and then he's kind of
put on a blocker for his powers, and he can't
do anything. And so we know all that information
as the audience now who's already watched this
show. But of course, it's majorly confusing to
be like, who is Vecna? And you're getting all
this sort of side story with 1 and 11 later on
in the season. But you don't make that connection
yet until the very end. And even you don't really
need Eleven's story for that. You get it with
Nancy later as well. So really good job by Steve
there as putting some stuff in. But also you
get to see this nice Silence of the Lamb moment
where she's down talking to Victor Creel, Nancy,
and Robin. And you also get this absolute horrific
look at why Hawkins may feel cursed. Yeah. Keep
your finger on the pause button and rewind that
tape. It's the prestige category. For what did
we notice on this rewatch? Episode one. Starting
out the mystery of what happened in the lab is
pretty awesome. And so is revealing Brenner.
And then being like, oh, but it's a flashback.
It's okay. Yeah. He's not actually here. The
way that they set it up, too, with, like, we
get an actual little L again, which is so much
fun to see. And the fact that you were like.
oh, this is how all the kids are no longer around
except for eight. And, oh my gosh, Eleven did
this, and she opened up a gate previous to the
beginning of Stranger Things. Like, that's a
crazy good way of starting that. Yeah. It did
make a lot of questions, though, about where
is eight, and how is she not there, and question,
question, question. Question, question, question.
Season five, answer our questions. Please answer.
Yes. Um, a tiny little bit. Ellen Joyce matching
is so adorable. I just love it. I really love
that she's stepping into the role as her mom
and it's just so cute. Yeah. I made fun of this
at the beginning with my season recap or my episode
recap, but like Jason, he's like 32 years old.
I know he's not the actors. I think like 27 or
something like that, but he just doesn't read
at all. No. Like a 17, 18 -year -old kid. And
I really like him in this part. Oh, he's very
sinister. We will have a lot more to say about
the visuals of age in this season over the next
couple of episodes. But immediately I'm like,
who is this 32 -year -old and why is he on this?
What's that movie? It's this rom -com where the
main girl character's brother. goes and joins
school as a baseball player so that he can get
drafted again. No idea. All right. Audience members,
if you. It's not like never been kissed or something,
is it? Maybe. Is that the one where she like
goes undercover at a high school? Oh, no, no,
no, no. Oh, wait. No, that's not what I'm thinking
of. It's something about pitch. fever pitch or
something like that i don't know you said baseball
that's why i was thinking about it but i don't
think i'm right at all i i think that this guy
is i'm like is this guy an undercover fbi agent
who's there at the high school to be like oh
yeah hi fellow kids anyways it's just i'm pretty
sure he was 28 when they filmed yes it's just
yeah he's he's not he 18 yeah no he he also just
has this like creepy quality about him and and
i think it's great it's not the actor it is the
acting and it's great um but that definitely
contributes to the like you don't fit well i'm
like i know that they really have to age up the
seniors because yeah like 11 is supposed to be
a freshman 20 years old and she's not really
but Yeah. They're all quite old for freshmen
and they need to age them somehow. It was like
when they did Smallville and they were like,
Tom Felton's 14. So that means Tom Felton. Sorry,
Tom Wellington is 14. Tom Felton was actually
14 at the time. Yeah. I am a big fan, though,
of how Will has stepped into this brother role
for Elle, despite everything else going on in
his life, too. I just think it's really sweet.
And also kind of in that vein of just sweet things,
I'm realizing that I realized that ending with
a letter in the last season and then starting
with a letter is a nice full circle moment and
a kind of father to daughter transition. So I
do like that a lot. A potentially question mark
thing. So Elle is having a lot of trouble in
school. She changed schools. They would have
tested her in and tested her in at a lower grade,
for sure. She would have been held back. It is
possible, and I don't know what it was like in
the 80s, but it is possible to have that low
skills and test into a public school in high
school, but you just go into a lot of remedials
and you get an individual education plan, an
IEP, to help with your learning differences so
that you are getting a ton of stuff. But it doesn't
seem like she has that. Correct, but it was also
the 80s, so they might have just been shilling
a kid in there and being like, ah, whatever.
Yeah, you're the right age, sure, here you go.
I mean, it's crazy that we do that already in
education. We're like, you're the age, not the
right smarts or maturity or anything like that.
Age, great, here you go. Yeah. Oh, well. I also
forget how quickly Vecna enters the story this
season. It is so fast. It's like right away.
Yeah. Wild. Yeah. Wild. I always feel like the
Chrissy scene is at least episode three, if not
four. I know. And it's no, it's one. She just
makes such an impact in this episode. She does.
She's almost a pound for pound MVP candidate,
but not quite because she does actually nothing.
Yeah. But her acting's great. There's this great
moment where it's the final moment of the game.
There's an injury on the basketball team. Lucas
gets put in. And Jason says this line to the
coach where he's like, no, pass the ball to me.
Winners find a way to win. And he doesn't. Lucas
figures out a way to win. And I just love the
inference that Lucas is a winner who will find
a way to win. Also, also Erica at the same time,
because she's the one that wins the D &D campaign.
So go Sinclair's. Episode two. I simply do not
like everything about. Kill them. Get them. I
don't like anything about the reunion at the
airport. Mike's outfit sucks. His attitude sucks.
Argyle's awkward. Will is so sad. And once again,
Mike sucks again for not wanting to see his painting.
Get him. Elle's lying through her teeth and Jonathan
is just giving me nothing. Get him. Sound off.
Let's go. Continuing my frustration with episode
two. Tops. Generally, I'm on your side. You had
Hopper for quite some time. And you seemed decently
-ish competent under him. You suck. You told
the person who cares most about who the killer
would be, who you think the killer is, and you
just are shocked when this turns into a manhunt?
teenagers are gonna go off and try to find another
teenager because they killed his girlfriend like
what what what what um and then this this goes
to the fred situation i i don't understand why
we don't know more about this car accident where
someone died yeah i and i Couldn't at the time
when I was writing my notes on this, I couldn't
remember if this was answered. It's not. I finished
this season. It's not answered at all. And there's
someone else who has died amongst all these other
deaths in Hawkins in this fiery car accident.
And we don't know who they were, what the situation
was, how it was. Was it built into the lore of
Hawkins being cursed? We don't know anything
about it. It's just like, oh, yeah, someone else
died. Yeah. She's like, what? What? That's crazy.
And then going back to Jonathan, while he was
giving me nothing, now he's giving me too much
because he has some crazy self -confidence here.
Thinking that Nancy is just going to throw her
life out the window to go to community college
with him in California. Have you met Nancy? He's
just, he doesn't want to tell her that he's not
going to go to college because he thinks she's
going to throw her life away for him. And like,
um, I know that you're like pretty cool, but
no. Yeah, for real. My God. Um, all right. I'm
just going to very quickly say my, my piece about
the, the California stuff. Yes. Okay. First of
all, I love the fact that Mike's outfit sucks
because I think it's well -deserved. It's indicative
of his taste. I also think that it's a very,
like, classic 1980s California vibe, which I
just think that that sense of style right there
is pretty bad and it doesn't work on him. I still
think he looks iconic, even though I think he
also looks terrible. I, my actual, in all seriousness,
my biggest... problem with this entire thing
is the use of argyle's character which we have
like very little indigenous or or uh latino representation
in the show and they choose for him to be a big
california stoner the entire time who can only
calm down and is only there for comedic relief
and i think it's like a borderline in irresponsible
use of his character and then to not bring him
back in season five to help fix some of those
stuff i'm like Dude, what the heck are you guys
thinking? You take one of your only brown characters
outside of Lucas and you make him just this stoner
pot man thing who is like a bad influence on
a Mormon girl later on. Like, there are moments
where he's funny and good, but that's your only
version. Like, that's the only guy who is of
that ilk. He has two moments of legitimate. planning
intelligence knowledge yes one is recognizing
tire tread as military vehicles why amazing and
the second one is being able to commandeer a
pizza boy freezer an entire pizza place so that
they can use the freezer for the mind no he's
like later on he's like a fbi agent of pizza
places i need to commandeer your uh your shop
Anyways, that's an actual serious thing. In terms
of the rest of it, I just, like, Jonathan's storyline
stinks. Like, he's just, like, a stoner. He has
a storyline? He's not. No, he doesn't. He's,
like, freaking out about Nancy for a second.
Like, they set up a bunch of cool stuff in episode
one. They set up Jonathan having major problems
with dealing with all of this stuff. They set
up Mike and Elle not getting along. Elle's trouble
socializing and getting used to California and
being bullied and having a difficult time with
her powers. The only thing that gets really continued
is her having a difficult time with her powers.
Will and his connection with Mike and how that's
been interrupted and why aren't they really together?
And also his love and professed interest in being
kind of Mike's soulmate in a way. uh completely
not really followed through lightly drizzled
in there jonathan ends up having really no storyline
oh nancy and we're not gonna get together and
i'm just afraid and i want to be with my family
and then he ends up in hawkins and the only thing
is that they're like are we okay yeah we're okay
all right great now we've got a love triangle
totally And we've got Argyle, who's apparently
not, like, not in season five, not apparently.
He said, the actor said himself he's not in it.
So then we have him for, what, no reason at all.
Just those two things that you mentioned. And
then, like, Elle's entire story is just this
frustrating, sort of, we have to hem and haw
into getting her powers back because we deleted
them at the end of last season. And I just, I,
those three, those storylines are just such a
bag of nothing. That I, like, when I think about
this season, and I love this season, I, like,
delete those out of my memory. But other people
that I talk to are, like, they don't like this
season because that's the only thing that they
can remember. Is that Elle does nothing. And
she doesn't do nothing. We'll get into the nitty
gritty of it later. And Mike does nothing. And
he really doesn't do anything. They just, like,
go on a road trip through desert to find Nino.
Like, it's really frustrating. Anyways. Conversely,
Eddie is super good. The actor for him is incredible.
Amazing. There's that absolutely gorgeous scene
of them explaining everything to Eddie in the
boathouse. Where they set up how they think Hawkins
is cursed. They're not entirely far off. And
it's just welcoming this other guy into their
story. And that's all interwoven with Fred being
killed at the same time. And it's just a great
sequence. And I just, I love Eddie Munson so
much. He legitimately might be my third favorite
character on the show. Yeah, I love that. I think
he's, I think he's fantastic. And I mean, obviously,
Joseph Quinn has done some pretty phenomenal
things since this too. Between one of the Quiet
Place movies, Gladiator 2. And now Fantastic
Four. And he's signed on for, you know, being
Johnny Storm in all future projects. And he's
going to be I think he's even signed on for being
in some Beatles biopics as George Harrison. So,
I mean, he's just he's got a lot in the works.
And that really, I mean, really all stems from.
Yeah. Stranger Things. performance in Stranger
Things. Didn't Cardi B want to DM him, too? Or
was that Megan Thee Stallion or something like
that? I can't remember exactly, but yeah, I mean,
he was in some things before, bit parts here
and there and stuff like that, but this is really
where things kicked off, and it shows because
he is phenomenal. I think he is the MVP acting
-wise of this season. Yeah. Yeah, I would definitely
agree with that. Episode 3! Okay. fascinating
politics with dr sam at the beginning with the
fact that the u .s government is infighting about
that some people think that l is the problem
and should be killed and this is tying into a
storyline that i never bought into even in the
first watch which is like l is the monster and
they like really try and hammer this idea that
like 11 is the one that killed all those kids
when they do the flashback and then she even
herself was like what if i am the monster and
dr sam's like i'm betting my life that you aren't
and it's like come on people like she's Not in
this season. She's not going to be the monster.
But maybe in season five she'll turn. We'll see.
But I just I liked the politics. I liked bringing
in a little bit of real life. You know, we see
very little of what the U .S. government does
outside of Hawkins directly. So to see it on
Dr. Sam's front door with the military, I thought
was cool. Yeah, definitely. I had an issue with
Murray and Joyce because did they really not
come up with a cover story before the kids got
home? They made this plan and had all day to
figure it out. And then Joyce has the worst lying
I've ever seen out of anybody ever. And you have
a five year old. A thing. Yeah. I've got a thing.
Yeah, that conference. A conference. Yes, a conference.
In Alaska. That's stupid. Sure. Sure. I do, unfortunately,
Sam, I'm really sorry, but I do have to give
Mike some props here. Okay. For how he talks
to Elle. I know he's not the best, but he does
have yet another moment where he's trying to
connect to her, tries to understand her. And
it works okay until his feelings come up and
then he panics. Overall, though, he does pretty
well. And this is really the second time ever
that we see this from him, of him actually being
able to like really connect with Elle and communicate
properly and kind of. bring bring his viewpoint
and her viewpoint together yeah and so i do have
to give him a little bit of a no i i totally
agree i totally agree and i think it's a necessary
scene to keep his character alive in any way
shape or form um i think murray sierra i get
that joyce is trusting of yuri but murray is
way too trusting of yuri as compared to oh for
sure what season two murray like murray changes
a ton Over this show, into whatever the show
needs him to be. And he's just such a great physical
actor, and his voice is so dramatic that I get
why they're utilizing those talents to make him
this big, huge character. Big energy -wise, right?
But he's way too trusting of Yuri. Season 2 Murray
would never, could never. No. Never. Would never,
could never. Would never, could never. Never
in a million years. Were you... Ever afraid that
Lucas would actually join Jason's crew? Because
to me, the Jason's crew line is a little weak
in these four episodes. No, I never thought that
he'd actually like wholeheartedly join in. You
know, I think that there's a little bit of a
fear of how far he'd go playing along. Right.
But I think that that's where it ended for me
is, you know, I think it's just. Well, what if
they actually do show up and they are all there?
You know, what is Lucas going to do then? At
what point does he turn his back on? Who is he
going to turn his back on? Yeah. But he escapes
from them before any of that really happens.
So I don't know. Yeah, I feel like it falls a
little bit flat because we just don't have that.
Yeah, and I think that overall, just the Jason's
crew plot doesn't – it stays weak. Jason's not
weak. Jason's great. Jason's great, but none
of his, like, lackeys – I mean, they start out
with, like, what, eight basketball players or
something like that? And by the time that we
get to the lake, there's only three of them,
and then the one, you know, dies. And so then
– By the time that we get to really the impactful
Jason stuff, there's Jason and a guy who tackles
a small girl. There's just one other guy who
tackles a small girl and then can barely hold
on to her before she kicks him in the bejubies.
Yeah, you know, I like it as a runner storyline,
right? It's not an A story, it's not a B story.
But it is, at moments, I just wish that it was
more like Lucas felt stuck being there, rather
than playing with the audience in terms of like,
Lucas might choose them because he wants to be
popular, not a freak. Nah, no. I just found,
and so his big line at the end where he's like,
normalcy is psychotic. And I'm like, cool, that
feels like the Duffer Brothers having a theme
that they're trying to teach. And it's almost
a little didactic in that moment because... I
never really believe that Lucas, for a moment,
is like, I'm going to be with these guys even
though they're killing people. Versus I do believe
it at the beginning when he just wants to be
on the basketball team. Right. All right, cool.
Cool, cool, cool. Yeah, definitely. Last thing
about episode three before we get to episode
four. The realization that Max is in danger and
is going to be killed is an all -time TV moment
for me. Mm -hmm. Like, absolutely. I remember
specifically being like, what? And then not even
asking my wife if we can watch the next one,
just hitting the next button. Like, I had to
watch more. Because like I said, Max in my first
watch, in my second watch, in my third watch,
my favorite character. Still tied for my favorite
character with Dustin. Like, my anxiety around,
oh my gosh, we're going to lose Max was huge
because I just like her so much. And then episode
four, I got super chills when Max says, Percy's
headache started seven days ago. Fred's six days
ago. I've been having them for five days. Oh,
I went, not this redheaded delight. My poor girl.
Yeah. But yeah, really, really well done delivery
on that line reading as well. Yeah. From her.
The Mike and Will conversation. about doing things
together as a team of best friends is a beautiful
callback to when Mike says that if they're ever
going to go crazy, at least they'll go crazy
together. I like that. It's a nice callback.
I really like that kind of rounded moment. And
that full circle moment is very sweet. And even
though Mike and Will are not quite in the same...
of where they're coming from with their friendship
and their relationship with each other. I think
it's just a really nice moment that we don't
get a ton of between the guys in these episodes.
Totally. So it's nice. Yeah. I've... Sorry to
keep bringing it back to Max. I've never been
more stressed about a character surviving in
a TV show ever. Like, I'm like, oh, yeah, sure,
the Michael Mills stuff. Absolutely. Give me
Max. Where is my precious darling baby girl?
I don't want her dead. Feels like a niece that
I'm super protective over. But the sequence of
Max being under Vecna's spell. Robin and Nancy
being nearly arrested with Dustin calling on
the radio for info and then putting music on
Max's head and Max running for it is just like
crazy good and might be the best thing in season
four period. No, I think it is. It's incredible.
Which is kind of a bummer that it happens halfway
through season four, but it is, it is phenomenal.
I think it is. It is very, very, very well done.
The finale is really good for season four, but
I just, like, the stakes are so big. I don't
know. Maybe season four might be, but we'll get
to that when we get to that. The season four
finale might beat it. But this is such a crazy
good bit of television. Yeah. And so is Hop's
Escape. Yeah. Oh, gosh. However, me just, I'm
watching this going. There's no way that he's
doing all of this barefoot. Oh my God, he's doing
all of this barefoot. Yep. Because I was watching
it and I was going, he must have taken the guard's
shoes before he runs through the snow, hops on
a snowmobile, goes for quite some time, hops
out, walks again through the snow, gets into
a building. And then I go, no, oh, no, no, no.
How does he not have frostbite on all of his
toesies? It's an absolutely, like, oversight
by the show. He 100 % should have frostbite for
that long of a trip out in the cold. And when
his feet are in snow and then on metal in exposed
winter air in Siberian Russia, like, are you
kidding? Absolutely, he should be amputating
his feet. He should have lost multiple toes.
If not feet. Yes. If not feet. Because he's got
an exposed wound, too. oh yeah it should be is
it an exposed wound or he just it was hit so
hard that it like broke something on the inside
i i think i remember it being exposed so his
blood vessels no matter what should be freezing
everywhere yeah also a big welcome back to billy
uh coming into the scene i honestly really enjoyed
yeah seeing him again just for a minute i hope
he's back in all of season five that would be
fantastic he's so good it was also what a harrowing
scene for max and the viewers yeah where he's
billy and then vecta appears and it's like wow
oh you know i don't really love vecta's design
but i love his whole the way in which he's scary
yes yeah His whole terrifying existence. Yes.
All right. Rapidly moving on with the rest of
our categories, y 'all. Thank you for bearing
with us. There's so much happens in season four
that our episodes are probably going to be a
little longer than our previous ones. So into
our last categories. You know you don't always
have to face down a horde of angry soldiers by
yourself. Buckle up, Schmisseners. It's our Sansa
is smarter than John category for. What is the
most important character moment of these episodes?
I think, Elle, what if I'm not good? What if
I'm the monster? Yeah, I think it's an important
moment. I think it's pretty important. It is.
It's really important. I can't get behind it,
mainly because her storyline is so unimportant.
Mm -hmm. That I kind of tossed it aside. Like,
that's an important moment for her to come to
the realization that she might be a problem.
Mm -hmm. And the audience has been lingering
with questions about that since the end of season
one. Mm -hmm. But for me, for whole season reasons,
the most important moment is Eddie running away,
trying to wake Chrissy up, and then bolting.
Yeah. Yeah. Mm -hmm. I know you just lost a hand,
but listen up. It's the eye. am your father category
for most iconic character moment. I think there's
only one. It's Max. Yep. At the end of season
three, realizing she's next on Vecna's list and
seeing the clock in Hawkins High. Yes. All right.
Kinker. Done. That's it. Everybody sit down.
It's time for our I am Iron Man award. Most iconic
and most important scene. Yeah, there's only
one again on this. It's the sequence of realizing
Mac is under Vecna's spell with Steve coming
up to the grave, realizing that she's under Vecna's
spell, and then the Scooby -Dooby's coming to
her rescue. And then her saving herself by running
up that hill slash running on a plane. Yes. Like
a flat plane. Yes. While running up that hill
is playing and she gets out. Yes. 100%. Sorry.
I would like to mention I'm very tickled by the
Scooby -Dooby. I'm just so grateful. I was going
to say it after the first time. I was going to
say it after the first time you said it, and
we just kept moving on. But I have to mention
it. The Scooby -Doo, it's a great nickname for
him, is it not? It's so good. I love it. It's
so great. Crack open an encyclopedia, as Elijah
Wood once said, no, how could we have known category,
where we discuss the most important information
disseminated to the fandom in these four episodes.
Elle was created to be a long -range assassin.
Yeah. What? Officially confirmed. Wildly impactful.
Crazy. It's insane. Just bonkers. It's really
insane. That four seasons in, we are learning
her progress. Why she was developed. Yeah. Exactly.
And once we get to the play, Sierra, you will
see how that's not exactly accurate from only
Brenner's standpoint. Right. The U .S. government
thinks that's what's going on, but it is interesting
what Brenner is doing. So a little teaser there
for y 'all to tune into our season five prediction
slash play episode. Yes. Keep your horses safe.
It's the I'm going to make them an offer we can't
refuse category of best lines. Before we start,
Sierra, I'm going to tell you right now. Yes.
Usually, I think you pick the better lines. And
all of my lines, I think, are better this time.
Oh, really? Yeah, I do. I love it. Okay. I'm
so excited. Okay, go for it. Your lines. All
right. I don't like this Chrissy. From Eddie.
The full line being Chrissy, wake up. I don't
like this Chrissy. I mean, alone. Let's face
it. We totally suck. Totally and utterly. I do
like this. Steve and Robin. This one cracked
me up just so much. It's okay. Steve will get
him with his oar. That's a great one. By Dustin.
I sense tension. It's the risotto, isn't it?
Everyone hates the risotto. By Murray. That's
a really good line. I might take it back on that
one. That one line might be on par with mine.
Which I actually, two days ago, saw. A clip of
this exact line again. Amazing. On some sort
of social media. I don't remember what it was,
but I saw it again. Steve saying, I could have
taken you out with this lamp. So good. And then
my last one is Enzo. A hundred to one. Yeah.
It's a good, it's good. It's a great line. It's
a good line. And it's a great delivery. And it
comes back. It's better delivery though, than
it is a line. Fair enough. But I mean, that actor
is just great, too. The guy who plays Dimitri
slash Enzo is incredible. So I had Chrissy wake
up as well, but I have the whole thing. Chrissy,
wake up. I don't like this. Chrissy. Because
it became a whole TikTok song during the pandemic
-y time when this show was out. So I have that.
My other two are great lines. First of all, it's
Robin with a killer of a lore builder line here.
She's telling Nancy as they're about to get arrested
when Nancy's like, we're going to make a run
for the car. She goes, I got to tell you, I have
terrible coordination. It took me six months
longer to learn to walk than all the other babies.
Which if you think about it. It's so funny. It's
not just it took me six months longer, like on
average. It's the last baby to have learned to
walk. Then add six months and that's when I learned
to walk. And then I have a very serious line
here, which I think is one of the best lines
that Lucas has ever given. He says, I don't need
a letter. Talking to Max about the letters that
she'd written. I don't want a letter. Just talk
to me. To your friends. We're right here. I'm
right here. That's a good one. It's a great one.
Anyways, some good lines in there. Dust off that
card deck and get ready to shuffle. It's our
Joker category for who is the MVP of this set
of episodes. I have an honorable mention before
you give me the winner and slash pound for pound
argument. Honorable mention to Steve. He has
the timing right down in terms of being a good
babysitter and then going to find Max right before
she, like, because if he goes any second longer,
she's probably dead. So pound for pound there
for saving Max. And that leads to this whole
confirmation that it's Victor and where Vecta
might be, et cetera, et cetera. Right. Mm -hmm.
I have a pound for pound on this one, which is
Harmon. And if that name doesn't sound familiar,
it's because it's mentioned one time. It is the
cop guard Owen's guy who is... who's the one
who is protecting the boys in the house. Not
the one who gets taken captive, but the other
one. So there's two. There's a black officer
and there's a white officer. This is the white
officer. Yeah, this is the white officer. He
takes out an unbelievable number of soldiers
with a pistol. He saves Jonathan, Mike, and Will,
getting them out of the house, into the car,
and away. He gets shot and killed in the process.
But he does... A phenomenal amount of work in
a very short amount of time. And he gives them
the pen that has the location of where Elle is.
Of Nina. Yeah. Mm -hmm. It's an exceptionally
good argument. It really actually might be –
he might be the MVP. I just – it's hard to give
a one -name character – It's hard to give a pound
-for -pound – yeah. To harm it. Versus, like,
all the other legitimate pound -for -pound arguments
have been, like – Yeah. Like the AV club teacher.
Like a big character. yeah you know like he's
a bigger character he's in a couple more episodes
but yeah oh it's so true a little bit more going
on but i think the real winner is this other
person you have okay robin yeah for getting her
and nancy in to see victor comes in clutch impromptu
wild speech after nancy's telling her to just
sit there and be quiet and let me do the talking
and robin just in a moment of utter brilliance
comes up with this monologue of cinematic proportions
to explain why they desperately need to visit
this man and and they do and they get the information
that nitty -gritty that they need to know for
real i i think it's got to be robin and i know
that yeah that It's hard, because you could make
this argument that Harmon saves those three boys,
and those three boys end up saving Eleven, and
Eleven is probably going to save the whole universe.
At the same time, Robin is a bigger character
who gets Nancy and her to figure out the Victor
Creel stuff, which saves Max, which allows them
to do more Victor Creel research and plan and
really weaken Victor and allow time for Elle
to get there before everything's been destroyed.
And so I think just... I'm going with, I think
we got to say Robin because I just, I can't have
our list of MVPs be Harmon. Like when we put
up the MVP doc winner, when we do that social
media blast after we're done, I get like Harmon.
No, I can have Mr. Scott. I can't have Harmon.
Like we'd have to put up a photo of the guy.
And even then we'd have to put up like a link
to the scene that he's in. Exactly. All right,
good. Clean your evil air. And get ready for
our I was the turkey all along category for biggest
takeaway viewers should leave with in preparation
for season five. Okay, so Dustin goes over how
Eleven only opened the gate and that the Upside
Down probably existed for millions of years,
which is not a surprise necessarily, but it's
nice to get it written. For legal purposes, in
case we need to sue. No. Interestingly, the upside
down in a couple episodes, where one sort of
originally gets there, doesn't look like Hawkins
at all. So like a major question that I have
for season five, is this something that opening
the gate does? Or does Vecna do this? Secondly,
Vecna's attacks are inside your mind, first and
foremost. He is not like L's physical telekinesis.
He attacks your mind, takes everything in your
head for himself, and then breaks your bones
and bodies after that. But it's very much an
inside your own head. Not to, like, quote the
Cranberries, but... In your head! In your head!
Zombies! Okay, we can't get sued. That's parody?
Question mark? But speaking of music, music that
activates different parts of your brains and
exists on different signals in the physical world
can be a way to defeat or stall him. So we both
got what his attacks originate in and also what
types of things can mess with him, which is really
good that we've got somebody like Dustin on the
team who knows, who continues on with his AV
knowledge and technology knowledge. Well, Sierra,
I have a public service announcement for today.
Before creating a long -range telekinetic assassin
out of a child, please check that said child
cannot create interdimensional doors. This will
avoid unnecessary cleanup like rotten pumpkins,
slugs in your sink, and dead bodies strewn about
your town. Oh my goodness. The zero to 60 at
the end of that sentence. Yes. Cotton pumpkins.
Slugs. Dead bodies. Oh man. Thank you, listener
schmissners, for listening to this episode of
Fandom Schmandom. If you'd like to discuss this
episode or any other episode we've done, please
hit us up on our social media channels. We would
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you get your podcasts. That really helps with
the algorithm as... Well, and with that, we're
out, y 'all. Don't forget to tip your menacing
clocks. Fare thee well. Somebody had this had
this thing about watching K -pop Demon Hunters
with like his daughter and wife or whatever and
like how he was resisting it and then he ended
up watching it on his own and then he was like
all obsessed with it and was like singing along
dramatically and he turns around and his wife
and daughter are behind him and he just like
roomies my bias and then just walks out. It's
amazing. And so I commented on it because I thought
it was hilarious. And I was like, Rumi is my
bias. What an iconic walkout. And he commented
back to me. I was very excited. That's very exciting.
The best person that has ever commented back
to something that I've ever written was Mark
Hamill. Oh, yeah. You told me about that. That's
pretty great. It was great. I had a two -sentence
conversation with Mark Hamill. No one, nobody
can stop you. Mark stopped me. Mark never replied
to my reply. I gotta tell you, I couldn't stop
myself early last week when a student was like,
wait, so Star Wars doesn't take place in our
universe but in the future? And I was like, in
universe, yeah, but not in the future. It's in
a galaxy. A long time ago, far, far away. The
kid was like, oh, yeah. And everyone was just
sort of like, you idiot. It's like the first
thing that it says. Oh, my God. Oh, that's ridiculous.
I was watching a show earlier and someone was
like. I'm really, you know, like fitness is really
important and nutrition is really important to
me and all this stuff. And, you know, there's
this guy and his kid has diabetes. And like,
how can a kid like be so unhealthy that they
have diabetes? The kid has type one. Type one.
Okay. I was like, you're a moron. Dear God. allowed
you to speak today? Can I talk to them? Your
speaking privileges have been revoked. As you
address an envelope, God, Heaven, I don't know
your postcode. Dearest Father Malmighty, why
did you allow this man to speak today? I feel
like I know you just lost a hand. Make with the
oom -pah -pahs. Welcome to Fandom Shmandam. The
Fandom Card... The Fandom Cardcast. Coming again.
Steven. I almost said Steven. Because I saw Jonathan
right below it. Steven. Steven. Steven. One way
to kill millennials that graduated our exact
year. Steven. They're rescuing hoop. They're
rescuing. They're rescuing hoop. Rescuing. Rascuing.
Nancy and Robin need to do more Victor Creel.
So they pretend. Wait. Need to do more Victor
Creel. I don't know what that sentence was. My
brain clearly fizzled out in the middle of it.
Not gonna bite you in the ass and arm and face
and... You want to re -say that line? Yes. It's
not as bad as Benedict Cumberland... Benedict...
Benedict Cumberdatch's. Everybody knows who you're
talking about. It's not as... Bandy Snitch! Cumblepot.
Bandistatch Cumblepot.