Welcome to Fandom Shmandom, the fandom podcast
that covers everything you love and more. I'm
Sierra Obermark. And I'm Sam Williams. Today's
episode, we will be simply shouting about Stranger
Things Season 3, Episode 8, The Finale. And without
further ado, we will, as Roger Smith says, dive
on in. So get up to 88, because it's time to
travel back to our story. Recap. We open on this
finale in the Battle of Starcourt, which begins.
And, as per usual, everyone that just got together
has split up. Hoop, Joyce, and Murray descend
down to the gate. Steve, Robin, Erica, and Dustin
ascend up the hill to Dustin's Cerebro to maintain
radio connection with those down below. And Elle,
Max, Nancy, Jonathan, Lucas, Will, and Mike neither
ascend nor descend. They, in fact, fail to go
anywhere as their ignition cable has been pulled.
But Biller, Biller has moved. He's sitting in
his car, making no noise and pretending he doesn't
exist. No, no, no. He's revving. Revving his
engine like he's at the start of a fast and furious
movie. Which... He kind of is, as he is both
fast and furious. It's back into the mall for
Elle's company of teens, where they... wait.
For if Billy knows where they are, then so does
the mind flayer. But no matter, Joyce, Hopper,
and Murray have everything under control. After
Harrison Ford, I mean, Hopper, punches a Russian
and steals outfits, Murray uses his fluent Russian
to get them deep into the base. While waiting
for Murray to input a code, Joyce asks Hopper
out, and Jim agrees. Yay! But Murray doesn't
know math as well as he thinks he does, and Dustin
has to contact Susie to get the math out of her.
After a musical number, some begging, and cute
pre -teen flirtiness, Dustin provides the code
they need to get into a room to twist some keys
so they can blow up the machine and close the
gate. Steve and Robin see the Mind Flayer advancing
towards the mall and drive down to save them.
Above them, the kiddos push a car over to get
a different ignition cable and then battle against
the most horrifying monster anyone has ever seen.
Yeah. Perfect. Excellent. It's so true. They're
just like pushing this car and then, oh my god!
They're like Kermit. See? Suddenly. Physics.
It's like physics. The mind flayer, the grossness
itself, is huge and deadly and looking for L.
Lucas comes up with an idea way better than Mike
ever has. Throw fireworks at the monster. It
works. The fireworks explode. And hurt it. Cue
entry music. Standing at 5 '10", at 200 pounds
of pure Australian muscle, Billy Hargrove enters
the ring. Thank you. He knocks out both Max and
Mike before finding and delivering Elle to the
grossness. Elle's powers don't seem to be working,
but she manages to talk to Billy about his mom.
while fireworks explode against the Mind Flayer.
She brings out his inner human, and he turns
against the Mind Flayer, protecting Elle, only
to be killed fairly instantaneously for doing
so. Below, Hoop fights Arnold Rushenegger and
wins with another Harrison Ford reference by
Temple of Dooming the Rushenegger into the machine,
but trapping Hoop in the room. Joyce. Has to
make a decision. Kill Hoop, or have the Mind
Flayer take over everyone and everything. Well,
we know how that goes. Cue myself? Dun dun dun.
Or maybe not. When the machine explodes, closing
the gate, destroying the Mind Flayer, and not
affecting Dustin or Erica in any way, there's
a shot inside the gate opening machine room where
Hopper isn't there. Murray and Joyce run for
it, escaping the Russians, just as Dr. Sam arrives
with the cavalry of U .S. soldiers not actually
on any horses. And then time passes. They're
all wearing glasses now to show that time has
passed. Dr. Sam is assumed dead. Joyce has adopted
Elle, and they're moving. Nancy and Jonathan
have a heartfelt goodbye, and in one of the most
emotional scenes in the whole show, Elle reads
Hopper's note, which is both a heart -to -heart
and an extremely well -written, if accidental,
goodbye. And that's it. Time for all to stay
safe and mourn. Meanwhile, in Kamtschka, Russia,
prisoners are being fed, Rancor -style, to a
fully evolved but starved Demogorgon. Happiness.
Find your donut holes. It's time for our Knives
Out category, where we sleuth out which three
storylines are the most vital to pay attention
to. We got three. Number one, The Radio Tower,
a .k .a. The Mall Crew, a .k .a. Scoop's Troop.
Number two, Infiltration, The Adults, most notably
Bald Eagle. Number three, Billy. And the Shadow
Monster versus Griswold family. So, our first
storyline, the radio tower. They drive up the
hill and coordinate with Bald Eagle, the mall
crew being Steve, Robin, Erica, and Dustin. They
direct Murray through the tunnels, but then the
teens head off to save the Griswold family. They
have to contact Susie to get Planck's constant,
because Murray can't remember math properly.
It is the code to the keys in the lab, and Dusted
sings a beautiful duet with girlfriend Susie,
and it's adorable, and there's lots of sweeping
cameras. Then they have to coordinate together
with everybody else when exactly is the perfect
time to close the gate when everything else is
happening. They do a lot. Yeah, they do. So,
Sam, what is most important about this storyline?
Why did it make it into our top three? Well,
it results... Besides the fact that there are
three. There are only three storylines, so this
one has to make it. We can't do a whole one just
about Nancy's little sister again. She's the
MVP. Okay. Yeah, so... There's one big glaring
thing about this one, which is this storyline
resolves the case of the missing girlfriend,
which we finally get to meet Susie, have some
wonderful lighthearted jokes around, you know,
very Christian families. I think they taxfully
make fun of sort of what Susie's upbringing is
in a way that's both lighthearted and cute. And
also very endearing. You know, she's a very devout
girl. Um, the, one of the other things that this
storyline does is bring us the, one of the reasons
why Dustin's actor, uh, whose name I can never
pronounce, but Gaten is his first name, uh, is,
is here, which is that he was a Broadway star
before he came to Stranger Things. And we get
to see and hear him sing with, you know, uh,
Dusty Buns' little girlfriend, Susie. I will
also note here, I had the privilege of seeing
him, uh, in Sweeney Todd. with josh groban in
new york city and he's absolutely phenomenal
um he does an incredible job in that play and
i really really enjoyed uh you know saying that
also i i met his like best friend they weren't
best friends at the time they became best friends
later the guy is uh yeah uh i forget his name
but he was dating my cousin's husband's cousin
who was a major actress on Broadway, and he was
the understudy for Draco Malfoy's son in Cursed
Child, and then went on to be in the cast for
Sweeney Todd. Anyways, cool little factoid there.
I am weirdly, very oddly connected to Gaten.
Not at all. Okay, but going back to the actual
story. we need somebody to coordinate and it
also brings us into this nice full circle moment
back to why on earth we care about the fact that
dustin brings cerebro back right it's not just
for um hey look i did this cool thing like we
we have this nice little return to um some people
call it ring theory when you sort of loop back
around to something And so I really like this
moment for that reason. You get a reason to have
Cerebro. You also get to keep that group together,
which their chemistry has been so good. Erica,
Steve, Dustin, and Robin. And that payoff for
Susie is really, really good. Also, they are
able to get the communication from the mall fight
down to Russian HQ to be able to let people know,
you have to close the gate now. Which is what
creates the sense of urgency that leads to Joyce.
Having a belt loop twist. And as we think, murder
Hopper. Speaking of the adults down below, we've
got our second story here. Bald Eagle, which
is the code name for Murray, which he just loves.
So Hop shoots the soldiers when they get downstairs
and is like, I'm improvising. And he does the
Raiders of the Lost Ark like, oh, good. We're
all in an outfit. Everyone gets to look like
a Russian and they get into the base. Um, while
Murray goes through vents and such, Joyce asks
Hopper on a date, which we love. Uh, it's nice
that nobody's tricking anybody into that. Murray
disables the machine, uh, and Joyce and Hopper
head in to get the keys to explode it. They don't
have the right code, though, and have to get
it from Susie, but make it into the control room,
only to be stopped from turning the keys by the
muscle man, the Russianator himself. As Hop and
the actual name Grigori fight, Joyce tries to
turn both keys, but Hop gets stuck on the other
side of an electric field and knows he needs
to be sacrificed. Remaining soldiers are evaporated
and the gate closes. Joyce and Murray escape
as the U .S. military arrives. And that is the
end of that. So, Sierra, what is the key about
the storyline? Why do we care about it? Well,
it's closing the dang gate. So from a purely
plot standpoint, vitally important, because this
is how we are wrapping up this story. Once again,
we think that Hawkins is free because we don't
have any more bleed through from the upside down
because this gate is closed, everybody. Definitely,
definitely closed. And there's nothing else out
there. No one will ever change that. But it is
also what prompts Joyce's move and therefore
taking Jonathan, Will, and Elle along with her.
Yeah. And from a non -plot specific standpoint
and just kind of the emotional notes of the show,
A little bit of that Joyce Hopper payoff with
them agreeing to go on a date, which we've been
just waiting for. However, I don't know about
anybody else, but the second that that date is
agreed upon, I immediately have a sense of foreboding.
And I know that both of them are not making it
out of there. So it's almost like they doomed
themselves with that. However, it's very cute.
The looks that they give each other through the
window, just the nonverbal communication is really
spot on and very heart wrenching. The window
being Joyce is about to turn keys. Hopper is
stuck behind. It's that moment of sacrifice.
And they beat the Russians. Yeah. So. A lot of
great things you pointed out there. There's also
that, like, we finally get an end to the Grigori,
the Russianator storyline there. And just, like,
I'll see you in hell being another Harrison Ford
line with the Temple of Dooming after he, like,
they just really soup up the Harrison Ford in
this. And, like, I think it's funny that they...
I wonder if an initial draft in the previous
episode, when we talked about how one of the
lines is you remind him of a fat Rambo, talking
about Hopper, and the way that Alexis sees him.
I do wonder if at one point they were like, oh,
he reminds you of a, you know, like, clear and
present danger Jack Ryan Harrison Ford character.
Or if any other Harrison Ford character was stated
first before they were like, that's probably
just too much Harrison Ford. And they just went
with Rando instead. Rando. Rambo. It's fine.
I've never seen those movies. I'm learning so
much about you today. I know. I've never seen
Lampoon Christmas. I've never seen Rambo. And
that's it. I've seen every other movie known
to mankind. No. But I do really, really, really
like... The coordination going on between Dustin
and Hopper. Which is such an unusual pairing.
Like you get Dustin on the radio to Hop. And
I just. I think that's such a neat little thing.
That happens. Especially because Dustin really
is in charge. As soon as Steve and Robin are
like. That's a monster going towards the mall.
We're going to zip down there. And when we arrive
at the mall. There's also Billy. And the shadow
monster. Fighting our beloved. family. Billy
has disabled the car, so they need to go back
into the mall and find the display car and get
the cable out of there. Elle also realizes that
she doesn't have any powers anymore after trying
to flip the car back. And then, of course, the
Mind Flayer arrives. After escaping the mall
and the Mind Flayer, they get to the car again
with the cable. And Billy tries to ram them,
but Steve arrives! Woo! Woo -woo! And takes out
Billy's car before he can reach Nancy. Everyone
makes it into the car, except for Mike, Elle,
and Max, who are chased by Billy. Billy knocks
out Mike and Max, kidnaps Elle, and then Billy
attempts to sacrifice her to the Mind Flayer.
The rest arrive to shower fireworks down on the
Mind Flayer in this terrifying moment. And then
Elle tries so hard to reach Billy, who's trapped
in his own body. She's reminding him of the day
on the beach with his mother. And it works. It
actually works. And Billy tries to stop the Mind
Flayer, essentially just sacrificing himself
instead of Elle. The gate closing cuts the Mind
Flayer off and it dies. So what is so key about
all of this? Well, you know, it's certainly like
the ultimate story happening here, which is as
much as you and I, you know, love all the Hopper,
the Joyce stuff, the Will stuff, the questions
about Vecna and Will, and, you know, as much
as we love everything except for whatever's going
on with Mike, this is really... The ultimate
storyline. So we've got this sort of Mind Flayer
versus Elle moment. And I think what's neat about
the storyline is it opens up a couple of questions
here. Which is, why does the Mind Flayer want
Elle, want to absorb Elle? Or to, you know, insert
its tube into Elle like with everybody else?
Is it trying to absorb it? Will it gain more
strength? Or is it going to absorb her and then
bring her back to Vecna? In addition to that...
Billy has not been known to be the most self
-sacrifice person. Billy, like Will in previous
episodes, or previous seasons, has a lot of information
that he has access to. So what's going on in
Billy's head that as soon as he's able to finally
fight the Mind Flayer, he's instantly like, no,
I'm going to protect this person who I barely
know. So that's, I think, these fascinating questions
that have been brought up in the overall story,
which is like, what is the Mind Flayer's plan
with Elle? And what does Billy know to the fact
that he just, it's not even a question. He turns
around, I'm going to save her. Instead of just
like, yeah, it's in my best interest to still
live and let you die. Just hits home again the
idea of this has been built for L and that we
still don't fully know what that means. What
does it mean? What does it mean? Just like Vader
when he's spinning in A New Hope. What? What?
What? Keep your finger on the pause button and
rewind that tape. It's the prestige category
for what did we notice on this watch through?
Jim is rocking that pastel Hawaiian shirt. I
gotta say, when the police officer says at the
beginning, that's too much color for you, Chief,
when he's down in the Russian base, like when
he's in those blue lighting in the elevator when
he's at the mall, I'm like, this guy looks dang
good. It's really, it is quite a look. Excellent
and perfect for him. He should just wear that
shirt. But then he changes into a stupid Russian
uniform almost immediately. Well, he couldn't
chance that shirt being blown up. This is fair.
He can die, but the shirt must survive. There's
a filler episode like Breaking Bad's Fly that's
just the perspective of the shirt. As it gets
folded up and brought to a thrift store and then
not bought until the 90s and then they ruin and
spoil everything about what happens. Oh my gosh.
Great. Or it ends up somewhere and when eventually
Elle finds it or something. Yeah, yeah, totally.
I'd forgotten. how much L and company's story
is a little bit filler for a second. Like, it
takes a minute to tell the mind flayer to get
there, and they're just kind of like, well, I
guess we'll go outside to the car. No, the car
doesn't work. All right, we'll pop the hood.
Okay. Well, your ignition cable's gone. Oh, that
sucks. Vroom, vroom. Oh, no, that's... I think
that's Billy over there. Let's go back in the
mall. Okay. I guess the mind flayer's gonna show
up. Yeah, yeah, I guess you're right. Well, let's
get the ignition cable from over here. Yeah,
yeah, yeah, totally. That sounds great. Push
over car. Physics. And then the monster shows
up. It's just kind of this weird, this weird
lead up to it. It really is odd. Yeah, it does.
It takes a little bit for that plot line to get
going. And I think it's paced properly. Like,
I have no complaints about it. It's just like,
when you kind of separate it out. Like, if you
were to just watch that, if you were to have
watched that whole thing first, and then the
monster gets there, and then you cut to everything
else, and it was all just, like, a triptych where
it's all one thing, all one thing, all one thing,
and then the battle starts, you would be sitting
there being like, what is this? What are they
doing? What is happening? So, once the Mind Flayer
does get there, after they've pushed the car
over and the action starts, the - The mind flayer,
the grossness, knows enough about walkie -talkies
to roar into it and then throw it? Not only that,
but it hits the button. Because you have to hit
the button to talk. Yeah, it hits the button
to roar into it and then chucks it. It has the,
like, fine motor skills to hit that small of
a button? Is it, like, using its little alien
hand thing that comes out to, like, yeah! And
then hit the button? I know. It is really funny
to just have it go, ah, at the mic, and Dustin's
just like, hey, is that static? That doesn't
sound great. It doesn't sound wonderful. Yeah,
that is a particularly odd part. I mean, it's
really fun in watch, but again, when you separate
it out, you're like, I guess it would know, because
it absorbed people who've used walkie -talkies
before, but like, come on. Why would it think
to even do that in the moment? It's got residual
Will memories. And so it's like, I know all you
suckers are on this channel. Maybe it thinks
that the others have their walkie -talkies on
too, so it's trying to find them by hearing the
roars pop up. That's a terrible theory, but it's
there. Alright, so big question here. I like...
Even after all of season four, which is about
healing Elle's power for her storyline, I still
don't understand why Elle's powers aren't working.
And it really bothers me because I feel really
stupid. Like I'm clearly missing core concept.
I also do not understand. So we're either dumb
together. Yeah, great. Or it's not fully explained
because I actually started kind of. seeing crowdsourcing
some information on this right me too and yeah
there's no concrete anything you know everybody's
got assumptions and guesses and maybe it was
because of the physical injury maybe it was because
of the uh the actual part of the mind flare that
ended up in her leg that it infected her maybe
it dead battery because of the the dead battery
the proximity there's so many different theories
but it does really bother me that season four
doesn't answer it it doesn't in a satisfying
way right whatever dr brennan's just like you've
got a wound that needs healing and then it's
a mental wound and a memory wound and then her
powers come back and i'm like but it's not like
she faced Vecna right here, she faces the...
The thing that makes most sense to me is that
she dead -batteried and that killed it. And that
in order to get her memory, like, her powers
back, she needed her full self. But it's not
explained in any satisfying way. And so I, you
know, I sometimes think about, like, hey, could
I win a debate? And with this, I could not win
a debate. Like, there's not enough information.
No one in my mind could win the debate on this.
Other than the writers, like, obviously, but.
Well, yeah. I would hope. One would hope. Or
it'll be like. One would hope. The last writers
being like, well, we don't know what's wrong
with Walt. Again, Dacre's facial acting. Yeah.
When he is running Nancy down is amazing because.
It's full Mind Flayer takeover. Yeah. But again,
you can see the tiny bit of Billy still in there.
Yeah. And just the little moment where he looks
absolutely terrified to be doing what he's doing,
which in hindsight, now that I'm really thinking
about it, he was fully ready to run over three
small children. But now is. a little concerned
about running over nancy well i don't think it's
i don't think it's so much about nancy i mean
the crumple zones on 1970s cars are not very
good and so i think like there's a legitimate
chance of without and i don't know if that car
has airbags or not they're not you know standard
in the 70s so like the idea of like 70 miles
an hour ramming into uh that car even if he misses
nancy i feel like like oh death might be upon
me Is going on his mind. Yeah, that as well.
And then, of course, then Steve hits him. And
everyone walks away from that accident. So, what
do I know? Yeah. I mean, he doesn't look great
after. He does not. That's true. There's definitely
some injury happening. But, yeah. But it's crazy,
though. It just keeps going. And this man needs
to be hired on hired on hired, in my opinion.
So, speaking of something that keeps on going.
the harrison ford stuff in season three all right
so it's a lot and and we've we've pointed out
a bunch of them there's way more if people can
go through season three and just be like harrison
ford harrison ford harrison ford harrison ford
for hop yeah and the writers even talked about
it um way back when when they were like you know
is hop dead i mean harrison everyone keeps saying
he's harrison ford and is harrison ford dead
at the end of empire and everyone's like oh okay
so he's alive then um because no harrison ford
is not and neither is han solo um yeah but do
you love it or hate it all the harrison ford
stuff oh i love it okay good me too yeah i i
love it i loved it back in season two when he
did the hat grab yeah the indiana girls hat grab
totally yeah and i just i i do really enjoy it
might be a silly thing but when movies or shows
put in references that are almost like a scavenger
hunt for me to find while i'm watching i do very
much enjoy that especially if they're fun things
that work with the character and blend into the
landscape yeah so i think it is it's definitely
it i i yeah i very much enjoy all of the little
moments and pinpointing them and Going, ah, that's
the, you know, insert Leonardo DiCaprio from
Once Upon a Time in Hollywood pointing at himself.
Absolutely. So I liken it to, because some people
don't like it. I liken it to, you know, sometimes
you get cover bands, right? People who only play
other people's music. And they can be very good.
They can even play some songs really, like, as
well or even better sometimes, right? And then
you get bands that do covers. So I'm thinking,
like, Panic at the Disco covered Queen's Bohemian
Rhapsody. Yeah. And that's phenomenal, especially
when they get to the breakdown, the guitar solo,
where they just go, like, very Panic at the Disco
-y on it. But I would liken, like, Hopper's sort
of Harrison Ford stuff that David Harbour posed
off so well to when Smash Mouth covered The Monkees.
For, I thought love was only true. Oh, yeah.
And then I have to stop there, or else we'll
get sued. Love was out to... You know, all that
stuff. Yeah. And, like, that... Everyone knows
that from Shrek. So, like, that Smash Mouth cover
of The Monkees is a better song. And, like, this
is... No one will ever top Harrison Ford. But
David Harbour's use of those Harrison Ford moments,
I think, just elevates the show in a really great
way. Mm -hmm. Yeah, I agree. Here's another question
for you, though. Turning back to Billy, the Australian
man. Why doesn't the grossness itself absorb
Billy when he turns tailcoat instead of killing
him? I think because it's an in -the -moment
decision, and the grossness has lost control
over Billy. And is angry about it. Oh, interesting.
So you don't think it can disintegrate him because
it lost control? No, I think it can't. No, I
think he lost control over Billy because none
of the other ones were willing participants either.
So I think that he has lost control over Billy.
Billy is standing up against it. And so the Mind
Flayer is angry about that and just is lashing
out. Basically going back to kind of like a baser
instinct, more of an animalistic quality of how
dare you defy me and then I'll show you what
happens to those who defy me type of a thing.
Also, I think at this point, potentially, Billy
has been injured and beaten and bruised and potentially
has... outlived his usefulness and so there may
not be anything that the mind flayer stands to
gain by absorbing him a little extra meat never
hurt little little new billy arm punch from billy
extra little tentacle yeah exactly that's true
it's not much matter that he would be adding
okay i accept your thing This is a very random
thing that is not in our plan to discuss. However,
I just want to mention that I think the shadow
monster looks like the creature in Attack of
the Clones that... Yeah, absolutely. 100%. Yeah,
it's 100%. I thank you for saying it. I've been
thinking it for like 10 years. Yes. It is. Absolutely.
It's that, but just thicker. I feel like... Yeah,
exactly. I keep wanting to mention it and then
I forget to mention it. And so I just was picturing
it in my head and I was going, it really, it
really, really does. It really does. It really
looks like that. Good. But anyway. This time,
the mind flayer dies when the gate is closed.
But it didn't last time. Why? Is this because...
The Russians were already opening the gate when
Elle closed that one because they were already
experimenting and they just hadn't come to Hawkins
yet? I think that's – no, they are. They are
in Hawkins. So this is one of the reasons why
we did that little breakdown at the beginning
of the season. They're there summer of 1984.
October of 84 is when season two occurs. So when
they say one year later, they're already in Hawkins
opening up the gate. Interesting. Okay. That's
my assumption. I know that they were like, we
had to move, and I think they'd already moved
and were starting to make it work in Hawkins,
which is why the Shadow Monster was still able
to be there. Got it. So there was just enough
of a second gate open. Yeah. A smidgen. Because
otherwise it doesn't make any sense. Otherwise
the Shadow Monster shouldn't die. Also, to your
Attack of the Clones reference, both Season 2
and Season 3, I'm like, why aren't they making
any Phantom Menace references? To like, oh, you
kill the main computer and they all said, oh,
right, that's 1999. They're nowhere near it coming
out. They've barely seen Return of the Jedi.
Anyways, yeah, I think that's why. Okay. I accept
this premise. So after everything has completed
and Hopper is presumed dead, we all end up outside
the mall. And everybody's coming together to
find each other to see who has survived and who
has not. Yeah. And this struck me as odd because
for how much Joyce has been a mom to Elle over
the last three seasons, ever since the saltwater
pool and really just being there to support her,
I would have thought that she would offer some
comfort. That Joyce would offer Elle comfort
instead of just staring at her sadly while she
hugs Will. Like, Hopper was very important to
Joyce. Arguably a lot more important to Elle.
Yeah. Who has now just lost yet another parent.
And arguably the only parent that she has known
and has cared for her. Yeah. And... joyce just
kind of awkwardly stares at her i think i it's
very weird i think this is a writing contrived
moment um to specifically illustrate what hopper's
death means for the loneliness of l um and and
so you see i think you could you can make the
argument that this is a moment that joyce is
now realizing that she's going to need to be
the one to take l in And so you're seeing her
observe Elle, looking how lonely she is and doing
that. Now, it may be that 10 seconds later, she
goes and hugs her and takes care of her, but
they cut. This isn't quite a Force Awakens Leia,
Chewie, Han moment where Han's dead and Leia
doesn't even go to hug Chewie or anything, right?
Like, that's crazy. So I think it's just that,
because I think in actuality, Joyce would be...
Very aware and would absolutely take care of
Elle in tandem with Will. Yeah, I kept expecting
her to gesture her over and kind of usher her
into this new family they're about to create.
I would have loved that moment. I would have
loved a second longer to have her gesture and
Elle to come over. Mm -hmm. Yeah. In addition
to that, why is it that Mike... Can't be nice
to anybody except for L because I like the way
that he treats L at the end of this episode.
He's so in tune with kind of her needs, emotional
needs. And then when he comes in and sees her
trying, he is not Mr. Negative. He's not Mr.
Consolatory. He's not Mr. Let's empathize and
sympathize and be mournful. He comes in and is
joyful and is all about how can we make the future
better? And it's such a great Mike moment. But
I'm like, where is this for everyone else? You're
a constant jerk. And then suddenly you're great.
And I just be better, Mike. Mm hmm. We we get
I will say this is not the only time that I feel
this. Yeah. Because there's at least one other
time that I can think of in season four where
I feel this exact same thing where I go, wow,
he actually can discuss things with Elle in a
kind of mature way. And he knows how to bring
things up with her and whatnot. However, where
has this been? Yeah. For real. Why are you being
so mean to everybody else? Poor Will. Poor Will
indeed. Poor Will indeed. It's fine. We'll get
to that next season. Dear Lord. But before we
get there, you don't have to face down a horde
of angry soldiers all by yourself. Oh. Buckle
up, Schmisseners. Because it's our Sansa is smarter
than John category. Four. What is the most important
character moment of this episode? I have a caveat
on my selection. That one thing could win everything.
Exactly. Which is there are two that we will
discuss in the most important, most iconic category.
Yeah. And I put both of them out of the running
for the most important character moment. For
the other categories, yeah. To leave them for
the other categories. Yeah. So, besides those,
I believe that it is Elle attempting to use her
powers against Billy, even though she doesn't
have them anymore and she's already tested them.
Yeah, I think that really doubles down on this.
Like, her powers are done done. Like, this is,
like, they have to figure this out sans magic.
Right? This is, if Harry Potter had a... bunch
of muggle friends. They need to figure out how
to take down Voldemort without his powers. Like,
that's what's happening here. And I think that
really sets expectations for the Watcher on first
watches to be like, wait, something's seriously
wrong. And so we're not caught off guard when
time passes and everyone's wearing glasses and
she can't get down the teddy bear. Yes. And I
also think it brings up the fact that Elle is
so reliant on her powers as well. And that is
still her go -to. And the first thing that she
thinks of when in a dangerous situation or when
she needs something is to use her powers. And
she can't. Yeah, absolutely. I know you just
lost a hand, but listen up. It's time for the
I am your father category. For most iconic character
moment. Sierra, what you got? So again, besides
the two in another category, I am going with
Steve racing away to save the rest, smashing
into Billy's car. I do have an honorable mention,
which is as a visual. Just an iconic sequence,
not necessarily character moment, but an iconic
visual and sequence would be the mind flayer
lit up by fireworks. Yeah. Because I think that
that is the thing that sticks in my head the
most when I think about this season is the shadow
monster bearing down and the fireworks all going
off around it. being illuminated by it and everything.
So that's my honorable mention. But my pick is
Steve smashing into Billy's car. You know, I
really like that moment. And it's funny because
I think that the Steve moment is actually not
the most iconic part of that. It's the Billy
moment that we'd already discussed where he's
looking at him. And so, you know, it's an important
moment for Steve, certainly. risk his life and
also robin's life to save everybody else it's
such a turnaround as we've continuously seen
since season one steve and continues to hammer
down at just how good of a man he is and so when
nancy is sort of spouting off about all of jonathan's
uh wonderful qualities at the beginning of season
four steve is actually all of those things in
this episode um but To me, this isn't even Steve's
most iconic moment of the season. Fair. So, to
me, the thing that's iconic, when I think people
think, like, of season three, it's the musical
number. It's Dustin and it's Susie with the sweeping
cameras and the silliness and the flirtiness
and the, why are they doing this in the middle
of, like, there's, like, genuine questions about,
like, why is this written this way? But also,
like, why is Dustin okay with singing this song
when everybody's about to die? But also, like,
that song topped the charts during that week.
So, you'll kind of hate me for this. I legitimately
did not remember that the musical number existed
until re -watching it. So, for me, it's not exceptionally
iconic. Yeah, for me it's not iconic. Okay. Because
I didn't remember. But I can see how it could
be for others. Yes, great. I will take the win.
We'll pry it. We'll pry it from your cold, dead
hands. Cold, dead hands. As you slowly get absorbed
into the grossness. Yes. Everybody, sit down.
It's time for our... I am Iron Man award. Most
iconic and most important scene. I have an honorable
mention and I will explain why it is my honorable
mention and not the winner in between the honorable
mention revealing the winner. Okay. Honorable
mention goes to Hopper sacrificing himself to
close the gate. Yes, I agree. Why? I do not think
that this deserves the win is because ultimately
the impact of Hopper's death, while devastating,
does not really affect the current story. So
it is an unfortunate incident. But he's not –
it's kind of sacrificing, but it's not really
sacrificing. Yeah, yeah. He's not making a choice,
really, because it's either Joyce is really the
one who's making the choice to sacrifice him.
Right. And so – but I don't think that for her
either, it's not like his death causes something
else to happen. Right. that progresses the story.
It causes, it causes Joyce to move and bring
Elle out to California, which then elongates
her process back to Hawkins. But still to your
point, doesn't, I mean, it changes the fact that
Elle wasn't there to take on Vecna immediately,
but it doesn't really like Hopper is still alive.
Yes. Yes. So that is why the winner of this category.
Is Billy sacrificing himself to the Mind Flayer
to protect Elle. I think that entire - And the
rest. I think that entire sequence is definitely
most important and most iconic scene. It's the
lead up to, right? It's bringing Elle over. It's
talking to Billy about his mom. It's the - Kids
were throwing fireworks and being out and this
group effort to try and take something down to
buy them time. And then it's Billy having that
turnaround moment. And unfortunately, his turnaround
moment, unlike Steve's, is not long lived. So
he gets to play the hero for a second and then
is killed in front of Max, which is a horrifying
moment. And one of the things that starts off
season four. Unlike Hopper's death, which does
have some impact on season four, this has the
major impact on season four. Vecna is targeting
Max specifically over this ordeal with Billy.
Yes, exactly. And just like you said, the colors.
So I would be super happy to, for most iconic
character moments, swap out musical number for
Hopper sacrificing himself. Because I think that
definitely deserves to win. That is fair. I will
take that swap. Awesome. Crack open an encyclopedia?
As Elijah Wood once said, no. How could we have
known? Here we'll be discussing the most important
information disseminated to the fandom in this
final episode. Elle can lose her connection to
her abilities via injury, general trauma, infection?
Questions about. Questions about, indeed. This
is, for real, a big deal. Because it's still,
to my satisfaction, and it seems to most of the
hardcore Stranger Things internet faction, has
not been sufficiently answered as to how, who,
what, when, when, why. Now. As we've been watching,
I've been texting Sierra, as Sierra's been texting
me, and we've been talking about a lot of stuff.
And I am now sort of firmly of the opinion that
Will has powers. And so this has even more ramifications
if there's two people with powers. If Will is
going to end up being 12, essentially. Or even
if 8 comes back, which I don't see happening
for Season 5, but who knows. And I think one
of them is going to join Vecna's side, I think.
Most likely will, but possibly L. And if you
can remove the power of somebody, this could
mean some sort of big thing. Or the writers are
just leaving it as B and we kind of dealt with
it as we dealt with it in season four, which
would be disappointing. But it is a big deal.
It is. It could leave a lot for the plot to continue
and could... really yeah as you said have those
ramifications should the ability should someone
else find out exactly how l has lost her powers
and then be able to use that purposefully yeah
well you know it's it's interesting um the the
promotional material for season five just recently
came out um in the real world not when you're
hearing this episode listener the will poster
he has the red shaded eyes that they give Elle
at the end of season one when I went, what? Why
does she have those eyes? So I just, I really
think that there's something coming of this.
It also might be that, you know, they sort of
avatar to fire Lord Vecna, where they take away
his bending, so to speak, with what they've learned
from Elle losing her powers. So who knows? The
other big piece of information disseminated here
is the fact that humans under the, The grossness,
the Mind Flayer spell can be brought back by
appealing to their humanity. There is a bunch
of speculation in people who are big D &D fans,
because Vecna is, unlike the Mind Flayer, Vecna
is a real character in D &D. Yes. Vecna has an
undead assistant that likes bats, I think, and
has a sword. And he ultimately is the one who
stabs Vecna, sort of like a... uh you know the
kingslayer from game of thrones moment and a
lot of people think that eddie munson might return
as this undead assistant to vecna where he's
under his spell and so i wonder too if this information
of like hey you can appeal to their humanity
in a real meaningful way max tries to do it right
but she just lifts off facts Your name's Billy
Hardgrove. You live here. Like, that sort of
stuff. Right. Elle appeals to the memory, this
precious memory of Billy. And that, I think,
might make some appearances in season five. Yeah,
I could definitely see that. Keep your horses
safe. It's the, I'm gonna make him an offer he
can't refuse, category of best lines. We don't
know it's your kids. Yes. We do. Is that Murray
and Joyce and Hopper? Murray and Joyce. Yeah.
Murray. We don't know that it's your kids. Yes.
Yes. They know they're kids. They know they're
involved. Great. Nice. Heartbreaking one. I'm
sorry. Yeah. These last words. Yeah. Ugh. So
sad. Harrowing. And then this one. For the sake
of your dear old dad, keep the door open. three
inches just as a crying as a quick aside here
i think this is my favorite millie bobby brown
acting moment um i found her acting around reading
this letter nuanced and um incredible i i'm emotionally
affected by her acting not just david harbour's
um killer line readings as the voiceover fantastic
um And I think, honestly, of all the lines here,
I think that's probably the best one. It's just,
it's so... I don't know. At the end of the movie
Order of the Phoenix, Harry has that awesome
line where he's like, we've got one thing Voldemort
doesn't. What's that, Harry? Something worth
fighting for. And that line and this line here,
for the sake of your dear old dad, keep the door
open three inches, has that same sort of conclusion
in this melancholy moment of, no, not everybody
won, but we can move forward. Yes. Um, I, I have
one for you, which is, uh, Harrison Ford, Jim
Hopper coming in and I'll see you in hell before
he, before he throws the Russian anchor into
the machine. So good. That's great. So dust off
that card deck and get ready to shuffle. It's
our Joker category for who is the MVP of this
finale. This is probably the toughest MVP for
me for a number of reasons. Dustin, Jonathan,
Nancy, Steve, Billy, Joyce, Hopper, Murray, and
even Susie all very realistically contribute
to the success of closing the gate and keeping
as many of them alive as possible. Erica, Will,
Max. mike robin lucas and l are all kind of just
along for the ride just except for l's redeeming
billy moment i guess so i'll put her back into
the top category but i think i have to go with
joyce which seems like an odd decision but she
does a two -man job alone figuring out how to
turn both keys at the same time is able to get
the gate closed successfully and sacrifices yet
another person that she loves in order to do
what needs to be done. And as much as I really
wanted to give it to one of our sacrificing men,
or even some of the others who really help and
contribute, or like Elle, who... Yeah, gets Billy
to turn. Lucas, who gets the fireworks plan going.
Yep. Yeah. I mean, they all have so many things,
but I really feel like Joyce overall has to make
the hardest decision, has to push through the
most amount of fear, and really just gets it
done. She does exactly everything that she needs
to do. She asks Hop out. Yeah, she does. Man,
all of those things. I think she wins. It's so
nice to get to just a solitary episode when we
do these finales because it's so captured in
just one moment. So we're going to run through
a couple of different things. First of all, there
may be some listeners out here who at this point
are having fun with our pound for pound MVP conversations.
And I would like to say Susie may seem like a
pound for pound MVP candidate, but most of her
screen time is actively. not contributing and
delaying the process so that she makes Dustin
sing and almost gets everybody killed. So I would
say, pound for pound, she's the LVP. Yes, I would
also agree. Although Mike would be close. Physics.
Physics. Oh, gosh. Hopper has, I think, has a...
has a chance here in this race a you know he
he's really the driving force behind getting
the gate closed up until joyce gets in the room
um he improvising gets in the uniforms he's communicating
constantly with dustin he takes out russian ager
and then he's willing to sacrifice himself he
gives permission to joyce to do that yeah and
then he has the emotional like He does a lot
of emotional lifting with his letter and the
voiceover in terms of like, like helping the
episode really nail their ending. So he's really
close. Billy, you know, he's been our, I would
say just our, our host favorite for this entire
season. he has that incredible moment in the
car he has the awesome moments of like running
in there and knocking them out and getting l
and being completely like covered in completely
it looks like all of his blood vessels are black
at one point he's got this awesome makeup his
acting's fantastic he's super spooky like it's
just so good in so many different ways shapes
or forms and like He sacrifices himself and saves
Elle. So the only reason why people have a shot
at taking out Vecna is because he stands in the
way. Right. But also, like, I sense season one
is wild because I don't remember now, actually.
We should keep track of this. Who won MVP. But,
like, I've been kind of, like, a little, like,
we should have figured out a way to give Joyce
the MVP in season one at some point. mm -hmm
because she's and maybe we did for the first
episode because she her acting especially in
that like cold fall weather and the way that
we're doing spookiness her acting at the beginning
of that show really helps sell a lot of the horror
elements and the like conspiracy elements and
i've always been like oh man like we need to
get we need to get joyce a win and i think you're
right i know i think the two -man person willing
to sacrifice closing the gate kind of seals it
but it's a hard one this is definitely the hardest
mvp conversation oh yeah definitely i'd like
to look at the advanced metrics on like true
shooting percentage and stuff like that I had
to know before we moved on if we actually had
given her an MVP. We did not. In fact, there
was a specific moment in episode one where we
said, sorry, Joyce, it's not your time yet. All
you've done is yell and ax a wall. Excellent.
Good, good, good, good. I'm glad. Super happy
about that. Clean your evil air and get ready
for our... the turkey all along category four
what is the biggest takeaway viewers should leave
with in preparation for season five yeah we've
said it and it remains to be so l's powers are
not constant apparently even as a battery that
needs charging eventually she can become a dead
battery we think question yeah We think. Question.
Keep all of that in mind. That entire conversation
around Elle's dead battery fix with memory cure,
question mark? We will explore more in season
four. Today's public service announcement. Demogorgons
don't make good pets. Talking to you, Ruskies.
Thank you, listener schmissners, for listening
to this episode of Fandom Schmandom. If you'd
like to touch base with us about this episode
or any other episode we've done, please hit us
up on our social media channels. You can find
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and on X at fandom underscore shmandum. Please
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placing us in front of other like -minded shmissioners
out there. And with that, we're out, y 'all.
Don't forget to tip your self -sacrificing men.
And fare thee well. Before I read this, I just
really like that juxtaposition so much. The kiddos
push a car to get over an addiction cable and
then battle against the most horrifying monster
anyone's ever seen. Yep. This super simple thing
that takes so long. And then, oh my god. I, um,
I... I was reminded when I wrote that line, I
was reminded of, um, uh, what's it called? The
fairy Potter musical when they're doing the dragons
and it's like, Oh, the cute snowball dragon,
the twig dragon. And then he's like the Hungarian
horned fire tail, the most terrifying monster
anybody's ever seen. That's, that's how I wrote
that line. The mind flare is huge and deadly
and it's disgusting and looking for L Lucas.
The grossness itself. Grossness, right? That's
what we called it. Okay. What did I say last
episode? It's like, the mind flayer is gross
and it's coming for you. God, we're never going
to get through this episode. Who's ever editing
this is like, dear God. We haven't even gotten
past the first page. They're still on the story
recap? It's just the ending of that D &D session
really tickled me. Yes. Find the Energizer Bunny
Man. He'll know everything we need to know about
technology. Yes, the giant pink bunny wearing
sunglasses and beating a drum is very much...
Exactly who we need. Okay, Sam, time to get the
wiggles out. Actually, that is weirdly helpful.
Okay. I legitimately have to do that with Kenzie
sometimes. Yeah, sure. When I'm trying to get
her to pay attention to me and she's like in
all different directions, I'll be like, okay,
Kenzie. We've already gotten to the stage of
Sierra using toddler tricks to get me to pay.
I thought we'd at least get to the second season
before that needed to occur. That's what we get
for recording every episode at like almost midnight.
I know. Alright, here we go. You said cute entry.
Yeah, and then the entry was done and we went
for another beat of eight. But it was still...
You're like a triangle player thinking that they
can do a solo in a jazz song. Blow. Who fights
Arnold Ruschenegger and wins? With another Harrison
Ford reference. I don't know why it took us so
long to call him Russian Egger. It's such a good
name. I've been, you know, I had, like, Arnold
Russian Terminator Motorcycle Man. Like, there
was a bunch of iterations, and I really should
have just workshopped it a little bit more, because
Arnold Russian Egger is perfect. It's perfect.
It also sounds like a drink. Arnold Russian Egger.
I don't know why it reminds me of Gatorade. It's
an Arnold Palmer, but instead of lemonade, it's
just vodka. I feel like there needed to be some
sort of sting. Music sting right there. Demogorgon.
No, it's got to be super happy. Because I'm happy.
No, don't put that in there. No copyright. Don't
sue us. It's parody. Don't sue us. Because we're
not happy. It's a demogorgon going to eat our
little guts. This is parody. I said it in the
thing. So you can't sue us. Because we're not
happy. There's a demogorgon. It's really muscular.
Not anymore. Because it's been starred by the
Russian niggers. He's still alive. That's a total
lie. Okay, here we go. Shout out to Emma for
only knowing Livin' La Vida Loca from Shrek 2.
You do not have to put that in the episode, but
I had a friend who was like, I was like, you
know Ricky Martin, he did Livin' La Vida Loca,
and she's like almost ten years younger than
us. And she was like, oh yeah, from Shrek 2!
And I was like, oh my god, what? It's wild. I
know, it was crazy. Shout out to Emma.