WEBVTT

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Welcome to Fandom Shmandom, the fandom podcast

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that covers everything you love and more. I'm

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Sierra Obermark. And I'm Sam Williams. Today's

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episode will be beneficially bellowing about

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Stranger Things Season 1, Episode 5 through 7.

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Without further ado, we will, as Roger Smith

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says, dive on in. Get up to 88 because it's time

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to travel back for our story recap. Episode 5

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of Season 1, Hopper. is a non -stopper. Moving

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past my terrible rhyme, Jim Hopper is an unstoppable

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man infiltrating Hawkins' lab. Joyce's ex -hubby

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Lonnie has come back to Hawkins and he sucks.

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And Mike has... And Mike has figured out where

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Will is. The Upside Down. Cue... Terrible scream

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from a movie like Scream. Hopper gets caught

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at the lab and wakes up to find his place is

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bugged. At Bugged HQ, Dr. Brenner realizes that

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Elle is with the kids trying to find Will. Jonathan

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and Nancy decide to team up to find the Demogorgon.

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The children find out where the gate might be

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and Nancy proves to be a very good shot. Flashbacks

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about Elle in the submersive chamber give us

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more clues about what's going on, but then Elle

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uses her power on Lucas and knocks him out. Cut

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to Jonathan and Nancy. They found a dying deer

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and a monster. But it's okay, because Nancy just

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manages to trap herself in the Upside Down by

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herself with the monster. Nailed it. Episode

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6. It's okay, because in episode six, Nancy immediately

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finds her way out. Cue love music. The gate seals

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itself in the tree, and we're back to roll intro.

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Steve Harrington is being cuckolded by Jonathan

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Jeffries Byers. Wait. No, he's not. Hopper realizes

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that he may be chasing after a lost girl named

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Jane, a .k .a. Eleven, and not Will. In a typical

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horrors shower scene, we get a taste that our

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characters might actually have PTSD as Nancy

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relives her experience and asks Jonathan to sleep,

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and we literally mean just sleep, with her for

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the night. Mr. Clark is in danger. The same woman

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that killed Bunny, the burger man in episode,

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wait, Benny. I definitely heard Bunny on the

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show. I was like, that's that guy's name? That's

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crazy. The same woman that killed Benny, the

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burger man in episode one, is trying to track

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down which kids use the AV radio to contact Will

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with Eleven. Eleven steals some product placement,

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and Hopper and Joyce go to speak with her mother,

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who is completely incoherent. Lucas goes on his

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own to find the gate. Mike and Dustin try to

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track down Eleven. We find out that Eleven's

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mom was part of the MKUltra program and was pregnant

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with Eleven when she was on CIA drugs and also

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has powers? Steve writes mean things about Nancy

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on a marquee. Jonathan beats up Steve. Lucas

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figures out the gate is in Hawkins' lab and Dustin

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is nearly killed? In a wild scene, a middle school

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bully demands Mike jumps off a cliff and kills

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himself, or he'll cut out Dustin's baby teeth.

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Eleven stops that nonsense, and we find out she

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may have opened the gate. What a wild episode.

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Episode 7! Insane episode. Episode 6 is insane.

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Episode 7, everything is coming together. Which

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might be good news for Jonathan, Nancy, Hopper,

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and Joyce, but it's not for Dr. Brenner, Mike,

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Lucas, Dustin, and Eleven. Dr. Brenner knows

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where Eleven is, and the boys have to hide her.

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Meanwhile, Steve is reflecting on his life and

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whether or not he wants to sell Obi -Wan death

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sticks, while Hopper leads the older teens and

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adults. And they all meet together. Well, not

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Steve. Hopper and Eleven meet for the first time

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and they all swap info so everyone's on the same

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page. They get Eleven a sensory deprivation tank

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in the school gymnasium and she confirms Barb's

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murder. And they find Will is still alive. Keep

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the Williams. Which is also great. But now they

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have to go get him. So that's cool. Joyce and

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Hopper hop to it, and they're stopped by police

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of some sort, and Will is left in the Upside

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Down as the monster bears down on him. But before

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we get to the nitty -gritty schmitty, we welcome

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history teacher extraordinaire Elizabeth Wade

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Stickle to provide us with vital information

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that we need to know. Welcome, Liz. Give us that

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integral real -life history parallels. about

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what MKUltra actually was in real life. Hey fandom

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shmandum, this is Liz, your friendly local historian.

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I'm here for Expert Corner. Charles Manson, Britney

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Spears, Stranger Things. What do they all have

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in common? An alleged connection to the mid -20th

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century top secret CIA project, MKUltra. Project

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MKUltra. was preceded by the US government's

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somewhat infamous Operation Paperclip. Post -World

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War II, the US recruited Nazi scientists to get

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our space program off the ground and to learn

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about their unethical research on human subjects

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in the Nazi regime. Some had been prosecuted

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at Nuremberg already. Several clandestine projects

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grew out of Operation Paperclip. Many of them

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focused on studying mind control, torture, and

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brainwashing. The program was treading water

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for a while, but after the Korean War, the US

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redoubled their efforts and prioritized cracking

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the code for brainwashing. The US government

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was spooked by prisoners of war returning from

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Korea, suddenly sympathetic to communist ideologies.

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Surely they were being mind -controlled. The

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CIA poured $10 million into attempting to master

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brainwashing and mind control. In 1964, the project

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became more specific. trying to develop a truth

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serum that could be used on captured Soviet agents.

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MKUltra largely experimented on unsuspecting

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and non -consenting adults, both in and out of

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the intelligence community. They used LSD, buying

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almost all of the supply of this synthetic psychedelic

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in the country, amphetamines, opiates, and other

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psychedelics, among other substances they experimented

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with. They also utilized hypnosis techniques

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and sleight -of -hand magic that ended up in

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one of their manuals. They also outsourced experimentation

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to Canadian hospitals. The program took place

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under CIA Director Dulles and the direct supervision

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of so -called Poisoner -in -Chief Sidney Gottlieb.

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While MKUltra has been proven to exist, Stranger

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Things also drew inspiration from conspiracy

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theories around the Montauk Project. Stranger

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Things' working title when it was pitched to

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Netflix was actually Montauk, but we'll get to

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that another time. Some of the clear connections

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between Project MKUltra, their goals around brainwashing,

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mind control, and Stranger Things are, I think,

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clearest in seasons two and three with the mind

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flayer. While they use a D &D, not trope, a D

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&D creature, as the vessel for this mind control,

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this subconscious idea planting. It very much

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is rooted in this very real instance of the US

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government experimenting on our own civilians.

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Even in the series itself, they allude to the

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idea that Eleven's mom may actually have been

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a victim of MKUltra, thus passing some of their

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successful experiments outcomes to Eleven. We

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also see connections in the secrecy of the government

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base in Hawkins. Project MKUltra was so top secret

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that people inside the CIA didn't know it was

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happening. It was on a strictly need -to -know

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basis, and most of the time, even subjects of

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experimentation were not considered need -to

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-know. We definitely see this in Eleven's relationship

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to other victims of the program, as well as the

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program director in the show. Even though he...

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puts himself in this paternal position that Sidney

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Gottlieb probably wouldn't have been in, we do

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still see that idea of the experiment itself

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being what's precious, being what's guarded,

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and the human subjects being pretty squarely

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collateral damage and data points at the end

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of the day. In real life, Once Canadian victims

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realized they had been part of the program, they

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actually did sue the United States and the U

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.S. did settle outside of court. American victims,

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however, were not so fortunate. Once documents

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became declassified as a result of this Canadian

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lawsuit, Justice Sandra Day O 'Connor reiterated

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for the american public that the nuremberg trials

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had made very clear to the global community that

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getting consent in human experimentation was

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not only critical but essential and required

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um and so in the in the wake uh of mk ultra itself

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um We actually lost a lot of documentation as

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a result of some directed destruction of materials,

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but what we do have pretty clearly paints the

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picture of a large -scale human experiment that

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should not have been allowed to happen. And as

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we reach the end of Stranger Things, we're starting

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to see much the same, especially with the rise

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of Vecna, the tangible consequences of human

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experimentation, even in this supernatural setting.

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Oh, this has been Expert Corner. I'm Liz. See

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you next time. Thank you so much, Liz, for coming

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in and doing Expert Corner for us. What a fascinating

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run through of MKUltra, the CIA project. What

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was it? Pinhead? No. Paperclip. Project Paperclip.

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Before we dive into the whole thing, I feel as

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though we must discuss the elephant in the room.

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And I don't want to make too much light of the

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situation of like real people being unethically

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experimented on and everything. But sleight of

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hand magic. That was wild. As soon as I heard

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that little tidbit, my mouth just dropped and

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I kind of threw my hands in the air and just

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went, what? Listen, we know you've been on a

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ton of LSD because we keep injecting it into

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you without your permission. But would you please

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pick a card? Any card. Any card. what do they

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have steve martin as a kid in there just i'm

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so confusing i i guess i mean i guess just playing

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with your mind and maybe seeing if you can the

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only thing i can i need to know more about this

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liz i just i have to say but I'm just imagining

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them saying, okay, a normal person can't catch

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these details as a sleight of hand magician is

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performing. But maybe if we pump you full of

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all of this cocktail of shenanigans, you'll be

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able to pick out the exact moment that the card

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goes behind their... What are they hoping to

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achieve from that one? I think that's... hilarious

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so stupid um okay so such a wild yeah oh my god

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um okay so moving back to moving back into a

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more serious analysis first of all the the horrors

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of mk ultra are quite bad i do always appreciate

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when people are able to take really horrific

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things and craft an interesting story about the

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dangers of those continuing Because all of this

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horrific experimentation being done to Eleven's

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mother, which we then see, as Liz was saying,

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she is on LSD when pregnant. Right. Eleven's

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mother. And that sort of seems to amp up Eleven's

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telekinesis, or something to that effect, is

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what Stranger Things is going with. And then

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all the dangers that occur from then on are really

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at the behest of Dr. Brenner and his terribles.

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Now, there's some stuff with Vecna, right? It's

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not like we don't know if Vecna's parents were

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experimented on or any of that sort of stuff.

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But really fascinating. And of course, I really

00:14:53.509 --> 00:14:57.389
liked Liz pointing out that the mind flayer is

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essentially an allegory for attempted mind control

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implanting. What did you think? Yes, I really

00:15:06.809 --> 00:15:09.830
thought it was interesting that even though we're...

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as Liz pointed out, using a D &D creature, essentially,

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as the example, it's a very nice parallel to

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the realities and what they're really pulling

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from because it almost personifies the horror

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instead of it being something that's very mental.

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And very individual to the person experiencing

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it. And something that you can't really explain.

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This is a way that we are able to put a face,

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essentially, or a being behind the horrible thing

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that has occurred. And so I think that that's

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a very interesting insight and way that the Duffer

00:16:02.139 --> 00:16:07.100
Brothers have... put together a horrifying creature

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which if you know dnd and or what a mind flayer

00:16:12.700 --> 00:16:16.779
itself looks like as we see in the show with

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the pictures that they that the kids are looking

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at books um we get this mental image of something

00:16:25.039 --> 00:16:29.360
truly terrifying that is messing with your mind

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And then we also have the comparison to real

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people messing with people's minds. And it almost

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gives it a lighter quality because it's not a

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human doing it to another human. But at the same

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time, it almost makes it more horrifying because

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you have another unknown evil. Right. That is

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compounded upon what is happening. So very, very

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interesting dynamic there. Yeah, I mean, it's

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really cool. I was just talking to, at my other

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job, about allegory, as one does as an English

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teacher, and pointing out, you know, Dune, the

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Timothee Chalamet movie, slash the Frank Herbert.

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novel is an allegory about the way that the U

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.S. treats, treated the Middle East in terms

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of gathering oil in the 1960s, which of course

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then repeats in the 2000s and is still going

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on today. George Lucas's Star Wars, he's on record

00:17:36.400 --> 00:17:40.119
as saying is an allegory for overreach by really

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powerful nations. So for his example in the 70s,

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it was him talking about the Vietnam War with

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the United States. He felt like there was overreach.

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uh to the vietnamese people that sort of stuff

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and how that that creates rebellion naturally

00:17:54.039 --> 00:17:56.500
and it's really interesting to see that this

00:17:56.500 --> 00:18:00.400
is this whole show is an allegory for governmental

00:18:00.400 --> 00:18:03.920
overreach and how that begets problems throughout

00:18:03.920 --> 00:18:06.640
that you cannot control and so you may be trying

00:18:06.640 --> 00:18:09.799
to control something but that control is an illusion

00:18:09.799 --> 00:18:12.099
because it just will will disappear away from

00:18:12.099 --> 00:18:15.259
you instantly really neat stuff it really also

00:18:15.259 --> 00:18:16.960
makes me want to just dive into the history of

00:18:16.960 --> 00:18:20.200
all of this and go research Everything that the

00:18:20.200 --> 00:18:23.779
Doppelbrothers have been researching. Yeah, exactly.

00:18:24.500 --> 00:18:28.859
You know, it was touched upon in my history classes

00:18:28.859 --> 00:18:32.920
in high school, but I don't, I think I'm trying

00:18:32.920 --> 00:18:36.599
to remember maybe just US history and junior

00:18:36.599 --> 00:18:40.140
year of high school or whenever that was. But

00:18:40.140 --> 00:18:43.640
you don't really dive too deeply into that with

00:18:43.640 --> 00:18:49.099
teenagers. So it is definitely a... a fraught

00:18:49.099 --> 00:18:56.460
time in our, our country's history. And it would

00:18:56.460 --> 00:19:00.059
definitely be interesting though, to learn a

00:19:00.059 --> 00:19:02.440
lot more. Liz, can you please teach me a class,

00:19:02.519 --> 00:19:07.359
a one -on -one class on this topic? I would love

00:19:07.359 --> 00:19:09.240
it. Thank you very much. Yeah. Thanks Liz. We

00:19:09.240 --> 00:19:12.250
really appreciate this. Find your donut holes.

00:19:12.369 --> 00:19:15.289
It's time for our Knives Out category, where

00:19:15.289 --> 00:19:18.049
we sooth out which three storylines are the most

00:19:18.049 --> 00:19:23.309
vital to pay attention to. Number one, The Kids

00:19:23.309 --> 00:19:26.670
and Elle. What can she do and what can't she

00:19:26.670 --> 00:19:30.859
do? Number two, Nancy and Jonathan. Focus on

00:19:30.859 --> 00:19:33.519
the Demogorgon and how to attract and potentially

00:19:33.519 --> 00:19:38.000
kill it. Number three, Hop and Joyce. The agreements

00:19:38.000 --> 00:19:40.700
with the lab and government, these don't happen

00:19:40.700 --> 00:19:44.880
yet. Yeah, I added that because they don't actually

00:19:44.880 --> 00:19:46.480
have any agreements with the government yet.

00:19:46.819 --> 00:19:50.440
Okay. So, it's just Hop and Joyce. Okay. Number

00:19:50.440 --> 00:19:55.059
three, Hop and Joyce. Okay, so this first storyline

00:19:55.059 --> 00:19:58.369
is the kids and Elle. What can she do? What can't

00:19:58.369 --> 00:20:00.150
she do? What are her powers? And this is, this,

00:20:00.269 --> 00:20:03.269
over these three episodes, this storyline contextualizes

00:20:03.269 --> 00:20:06.710
a lot of the fantasy elements. So we get, like,

00:20:06.750 --> 00:20:08.769
what is the Upside Down? They talk about the

00:20:08.769 --> 00:20:13.869
Veil of Shadows. And we get an understanding

00:20:13.869 --> 00:20:16.569
in the name of what the Upside Down is going

00:20:16.569 --> 00:20:18.410
to be called for the rest of Stranger Things

00:20:18.410 --> 00:20:21.529
history. Which is really cool. We discover what

00:20:21.529 --> 00:20:25.170
a gate is. How another dimension is created.

00:20:25.309 --> 00:20:28.970
We get that with Mr. Clark. We get how it disrupts

00:20:28.970 --> 00:20:31.970
fields of gravity and creates electronic magnetic

00:20:31.970 --> 00:20:36.029
differentiating things that mess with magnets

00:20:36.029 --> 00:20:40.650
and compasses and stuff. We get Elle's powers

00:20:40.650 --> 00:20:44.470
being more explored and sort of a better understanding

00:20:44.470 --> 00:20:47.509
of what she can and can't do. So we see her in...

00:20:47.880 --> 00:20:50.420
Like, the purgatory space, we see her moving

00:20:50.420 --> 00:20:52.299
things with her mind. We see her breaking kids'

00:20:52.519 --> 00:20:55.160
arms. We can also see that she can levitate Mike

00:20:55.160 --> 00:20:59.619
from, like, hundreds of feet. Yeah. And whip

00:20:59.619 --> 00:21:02.380
him right back up when he jumps into the quarry.

00:21:02.500 --> 00:21:04.779
Super crazy. Which is, like, it feels like that's

00:21:04.779 --> 00:21:06.619
one of the hardest things she does all season.

00:21:07.099 --> 00:21:10.460
I think, yeah, honestly. Like, one could argue

00:21:10.460 --> 00:21:13.359
that, like, some of the other things that she

00:21:13.359 --> 00:21:15.819
does that are pretty crazy still has, like, momentum

00:21:15.819 --> 00:21:21.759
going for her, at least. Yeah. But this is absolutely

00:21:21.759 --> 00:21:26.299
the opposite. Right. She holds momentum. Yeah,

00:21:26.299 --> 00:21:28.940
very, very crazy. And then lifts him back up

00:21:28.940 --> 00:21:33.660
and over into... Carefully. Carefully. into safety

00:21:33.660 --> 00:21:36.180
but like and we'll get we'll talk more about

00:21:36.180 --> 00:21:38.180
like the wildness of that scene but in terms

00:21:38.180 --> 00:21:41.119
of her powers it's it's got to be one of the

00:21:41.119 --> 00:21:42.319
most difficult things and then she just goes

00:21:42.319 --> 00:21:46.500
and like breaks the troy's arm the bully's arm

00:21:46.500 --> 00:21:49.299
with a snap of her neck and then also earlier

00:21:49.299 --> 00:21:52.799
she like isolates her powers to squeeze his bladder

00:21:52.799 --> 00:22:01.319
so that he we know that it takes effort like

00:22:01.319 --> 00:22:04.819
it's not completely soft fantasy here we we get

00:22:04.819 --> 00:22:07.740
words later about her powers from dustin and

00:22:07.740 --> 00:22:12.140
mike and we know that she's like she needs to

00:22:12.140 --> 00:22:14.599
fuel up we know that it takes effort that she

00:22:14.599 --> 00:22:17.279
bleeds when it happens but like it's not like

00:22:17.279 --> 00:22:20.880
she gushes blood during some of this stuff versus

00:22:20.880 --> 00:22:22.700
when she takes out the demogorgon like you see

00:22:22.700 --> 00:22:25.480
all of her blood vessels sort of working and

00:22:25.480 --> 00:22:27.700
stuff like that so i'm interested here as to

00:22:27.700 --> 00:22:29.940
why she's not like just full -on running a huge

00:22:29.940 --> 00:22:33.819
bloody nose when she lifts mike up yeah no idea

00:22:33.819 --> 00:22:36.599
okay good i'm glad you're on the same page no

00:22:36.599 --> 00:22:39.000
yeah it seems like there should be a little bit

00:22:39.000 --> 00:22:44.980
more exertion on her part um And, you know, sometimes

00:22:44.980 --> 00:22:46.920
when she's using her powers, you know, she kind

00:22:46.920 --> 00:22:49.579
of, like, has to rest. She just falls down, something

00:22:49.579 --> 00:22:52.920
like that. But it definitely seems like, in comparison

00:22:52.920 --> 00:22:55.180
specifically to a lot of the other things we've

00:22:55.180 --> 00:22:59.900
seen so far, she should have more of a draining

00:22:59.900 --> 00:23:03.200
effect on herself specifically for this. Well,

00:23:03.240 --> 00:23:06.160
and I felt that way, too, about the smashing

00:23:06.160 --> 00:23:10.250
of all the glass that she does in the Eggo. Yeah.

00:23:10.329 --> 00:23:11.750
When she, you know, cause she has that awesome

00:23:11.750 --> 00:23:13.410
moment of like, she goes and gets Eggos and like

00:23:13.410 --> 00:23:15.289
everybody started eating Eggos all of a sudden

00:23:15.289 --> 00:23:20.109
again, uh, in real world. Um, and then she leaves

00:23:20.109 --> 00:23:23.490
and she smashes the front glass of like everything

00:23:23.490 --> 00:23:25.230
in the shop. And it was like, that seems like

00:23:25.230 --> 00:23:28.250
a little bit more than shoving Lucas. Right.

00:23:29.190 --> 00:23:31.730
So that's fascinating. But the real question

00:23:31.730 --> 00:23:35.009
here I think is around the creation of the rift

00:23:35.009 --> 00:23:39.700
because Is this Els doing? Is this Vectors doing?

00:23:40.099 --> 00:23:44.140
Is it just happens to be what occurs? Because

00:23:44.140 --> 00:23:46.299
she goes, and so she's in this, like, weird purgatory

00:23:46.299 --> 00:23:51.119
space, which is, like, filled with water. Questions.

00:23:51.759 --> 00:23:55.779
Why is it filled with water? I don't understand

00:23:55.779 --> 00:23:58.559
that. I could kind of see it, you know, if she's,

00:23:58.579 --> 00:24:03.480
like, in the tank, and then, you know, she, it's

00:24:03.480 --> 00:24:09.230
kind of like a... The water acts as like a barrier

00:24:09.230 --> 00:24:12.869
between the worlds or something like that. And

00:24:12.869 --> 00:24:15.910
she's in the water and in the sensory deprivation.

00:24:15.910 --> 00:24:18.450
But then later when she's not using the sensory

00:24:18.450 --> 00:24:22.309
deprivation tank and she's just using like white

00:24:22.309 --> 00:24:25.309
noise and things, there's still water. Yeah.

00:24:25.329 --> 00:24:30.569
So maybe because it's a good conductor? Is it?

00:24:31.529 --> 00:24:35.240
I mean, of electricity, isn't it? No, it's a

00:24:35.240 --> 00:24:39.220
great conductor of electricity. So, like, I don't

00:24:39.220 --> 00:24:41.319
know. I'm just thinking, like, that's the only

00:24:41.319 --> 00:24:43.880
thing I can think of is somehow it's tied into

00:24:43.880 --> 00:24:49.980
the, like, electromagnetism idea that we get

00:24:49.980 --> 00:24:53.900
in a couple seasons. I don't know. This is always

00:24:53.900 --> 00:24:57.640
the frustrating part about the visual medium

00:24:57.640 --> 00:24:59.519
when it comes to fantasy and science fiction,

00:24:59.640 --> 00:25:02.400
is that there's these, from a creative standpoint,

00:25:02.460 --> 00:25:06.390
like, This is a neat visual effect with the water

00:25:06.390 --> 00:25:10.410
drips as well auditorily and everything sort

00:25:10.410 --> 00:25:12.369
of happening within water. It's a great visual

00:25:12.369 --> 00:25:17.609
thing. But unlike with writing, with writing,

00:25:17.630 --> 00:25:20.230
you have to figure out, okay, what are all the

00:25:20.230 --> 00:25:23.150
purposes of this? Or am I doing soft, right?

00:25:23.269 --> 00:25:26.130
And so you don't have these sort of visual limitations

00:25:26.130 --> 00:25:28.859
of like, okay, but if I do this. What's the point

00:25:28.859 --> 00:25:31.380
of it? It looks great, which is awesome. I mean,

00:25:31.400 --> 00:25:32.779
in writing, you have a lot of other problems,

00:25:32.839 --> 00:25:34.519
too. I'm not just trying to say that, like, fantasy

00:25:34.519 --> 00:25:36.799
is only good for novels. It's great in everything.

00:25:37.019 --> 00:25:40.960
But this is a specific visual problem where,

00:25:41.059 --> 00:25:43.680
you know, you get these awesome, oh, this looks

00:25:43.680 --> 00:25:47.200
so cool. But why? And, like, I still don't quite

00:25:47.200 --> 00:25:49.400
understand after watching the show many times.

00:25:49.869 --> 00:25:52.349
Why is it filled with water? I thought for a

00:25:52.349 --> 00:25:54.130
while it was just, oh, she's in the sensory deprivation

00:25:54.130 --> 00:25:55.970
tank. That's why. But then as you pointed out,

00:25:56.009 --> 00:25:57.910
when she's using white noise, it's not like it's

00:25:57.910 --> 00:26:02.549
just like TV static all around her. Right. Which

00:26:02.549 --> 00:26:05.190
could be interesting. But yeah, it makes it seem

00:26:05.190 --> 00:26:07.890
like it's something else. Yeah. You know, it's

00:26:07.890 --> 00:26:10.809
not just based on her surroundings in the real

00:26:10.809 --> 00:26:14.049
world. And so are we, is it just like a visual

00:26:14.049 --> 00:26:16.309
representation of what's going on in her mind?

00:26:16.369 --> 00:26:18.589
Because I would accept that just fine. That this

00:26:18.589 --> 00:26:20.950
liminal purgatory space is just like her in her

00:26:20.950 --> 00:26:23.230
mind palace, essentially. But it does feel like

00:26:23.230 --> 00:26:25.730
it's a physical place. And we know this because

00:26:25.730 --> 00:26:28.289
she goes and touches the Demogorgon with her

00:26:28.289 --> 00:26:30.269
two fingers. She puts it in his back and that's

00:26:30.269 --> 00:26:33.529
when he turns around, she screams, and then the

00:26:33.529 --> 00:26:35.150
rift is open. And it's interesting here because

00:26:35.150 --> 00:26:37.470
the rift doesn't open in the deprivation tank.

00:26:37.769 --> 00:26:39.930
It opens outside of it. It doesn't open where

00:26:39.930 --> 00:26:43.750
she is. And it doesn't open where the Demogorgon

00:26:43.750 --> 00:26:46.789
is either. It's not like he's in the wall. In

00:26:46.789 --> 00:26:49.789
the upside down feasting. So, you know, there's

00:26:49.789 --> 00:26:52.450
some definite questions. They're not huge deal

00:26:52.450 --> 00:26:55.829
breaker questions about what's going on. But

00:26:55.829 --> 00:26:58.509
in terms of world building, it is unsatisfying.

00:26:58.750 --> 00:27:03.230
Why does the rift open? And, yeah, why does the

00:27:03.230 --> 00:27:06.289
rift open? When it does, where it does, how it

00:27:06.289 --> 00:27:10.769
does. Confusion. Well, and like, so, do you think

00:27:10.769 --> 00:27:13.690
it is just a physical connection? It's her just

00:27:13.690 --> 00:27:15.619
touching it? I think so. Okay, tell me why. It

00:27:15.619 --> 00:27:18.900
has to be. So I think that it has to be because

00:27:18.900 --> 00:27:24.619
she's able to see people and listen in on the

00:27:24.619 --> 00:27:29.160
conversations and find people and whatnot. But

00:27:29.160 --> 00:27:33.059
she only actually opens the rift when she physically

00:27:33.059 --> 00:27:35.779
touches the Demogorgon. And so it's like when

00:27:35.779 --> 00:27:38.680
Mr. Clark is explaining and punches the hole

00:27:38.680 --> 00:27:42.839
through the paper that she's essentially punching

00:27:42.839 --> 00:27:46.519
the hole through. that space and like through

00:27:46.519 --> 00:27:51.480
the veil essentially and creating a rift i think

00:27:51.480 --> 00:27:55.680
that that has to be the the the actual cause

00:27:55.680 --> 00:28:01.519
of of that it's the physical like breaking of

00:28:01.519 --> 00:28:04.180
the barrier okay essentially if that's true which

00:28:04.180 --> 00:28:06.740
i i think you're onto something there if that's

00:28:06.740 --> 00:28:09.200
true i think that's the thing that shows that

00:28:10.140 --> 00:28:13.160
the the scope of her power more than the demogorgon

00:28:13.160 --> 00:28:15.420
or anything else that she's done because she

00:28:15.420 --> 00:28:17.660
mr clark says it would have to be an extremely

00:28:17.660 --> 00:28:21.759
powerful force to open up right a dimension and

00:28:21.759 --> 00:28:24.119
if if she because of her powers is able to go

00:28:24.119 --> 00:28:26.880
into the space and make contact and it just feels

00:28:26.880 --> 00:28:28.819
like walking around and touching something to

00:28:28.819 --> 00:28:31.779
her she's actually yeah way more powerful than

00:28:31.779 --> 00:28:36.240
i than i really realize well and also so like

00:28:36.240 --> 00:28:39.619
skip forward to season three The Russians have

00:28:39.619 --> 00:28:43.299
to build this machine that is absolutely crazy.

00:28:44.059 --> 00:28:46.579
And it takes them a long time. And they have

00:28:46.579 --> 00:28:48.799
to be in a place where the rift has already been

00:28:48.799 --> 00:28:53.259
opened before just to reopen it. So in order

00:28:53.259 --> 00:28:56.559
to reopen the gate, they need all of these, all

00:28:56.559 --> 00:28:59.740
this power and all of the, you know, the green

00:28:59.740 --> 00:29:04.779
acidic, whatever it is, you know, like essentially

00:29:04.779 --> 00:29:09.740
nuclear power or whatever. And this huge machine

00:29:09.740 --> 00:29:13.980
and all of this just to do what she did accidentally.

00:29:15.599 --> 00:29:19.240
So absolutely wild. So cool. When you put it

00:29:19.240 --> 00:29:23.720
in the context. Yeah. Yeah. Fascinating. Really

00:29:23.720 --> 00:29:27.460
important information disseminated here for season

00:29:27.460 --> 00:29:29.599
five as well in terms of prepping y 'all for

00:29:29.599 --> 00:29:33.240
Vecna. And we know that she has the face -off

00:29:33.240 --> 00:29:34.680
effect, and we know that she's already beaten

00:29:34.680 --> 00:29:36.440
him once, but in terms of what the scope of her

00:29:36.440 --> 00:29:38.460
power is, I don't think that we actually see

00:29:38.460 --> 00:29:42.099
just how powerful she is like this again. Because

00:29:42.099 --> 00:29:44.519
her opening the rift is crazy powerful, if it

00:29:44.519 --> 00:29:48.299
is indeed just her. But! Yeah. Second storyline.

00:29:49.500 --> 00:29:52.440
Nancy, and maybe it's going to be my boyfriend,

00:29:52.640 --> 00:29:56.079
maybe not, Jonathan, Jeffries, fire. Which, to

00:29:56.079 --> 00:29:57.960
everybody who listened to the introduction was

00:29:57.960 --> 00:30:00.670
like, is Jonathan's middle name Jeffries? No,

00:30:00.769 --> 00:30:04.150
it's Michael Jordan's middle name. And so that

00:30:04.150 --> 00:30:06.569
was a shout out to Michael Jordan. Michael Jeffrey

00:30:06.569 --> 00:30:11.650
Jordan. Sorry about that, y 'all, if you were

00:30:11.650 --> 00:30:14.390
confused. So they've got this huge focus, Jonathan

00:30:14.390 --> 00:30:16.809
and Nancy on the Demogorgon. We left off with

00:30:16.809 --> 00:30:19.549
our last episode talking about how they Jonathan

00:30:19.549 --> 00:30:22.210
accidentally takes a photo of the Demogorgon.

00:30:22.309 --> 00:30:25.230
That photo gets ripped up by Steve. Nancy picks

00:30:25.230 --> 00:30:28.059
it up. stitches it back together and sees the

00:30:28.059 --> 00:30:31.839
Demogorgon there. And so now she shows Jonathan

00:30:31.839 --> 00:30:35.579
the photo and they decide to team up. And at

00:30:35.579 --> 00:30:39.200
Will's funeral, which again, Jonathan's now starting

00:30:39.200 --> 00:30:41.339
to believe Will's not dead. Joyce already believes

00:30:41.339 --> 00:30:44.339
Will isn't dead. The kids already believe Will

00:30:44.339 --> 00:30:45.819
isn't dead. So there's a bunch of people at this

00:30:45.819 --> 00:30:50.980
funeral that are like, ah, kids fine. We're just

00:30:50.980 --> 00:30:54.160
here for appearances. Yeah, for real. Jonathan.

00:30:54.990 --> 00:30:58.029
goes into, I think, his dad's car, picks a lock,

00:30:58.230 --> 00:31:03.170
and then takes out this revolver, which he gives

00:31:03.170 --> 00:31:07.470
this very sad story about, my dad took me hunting

00:31:07.470 --> 00:31:11.410
when I was 10. Oh, so upsetting. Made me kill

00:31:11.410 --> 00:31:13.809
a bunny, and I cried for a week. She's like,

00:31:13.869 --> 00:31:15.910
oh, God. He's like, what? I'm a big fan of Thumper.

00:31:15.970 --> 00:31:18.630
She's like, no, not you, your dad. But it turns

00:31:18.630 --> 00:31:21.069
out Jonathan's not very good at shooting things.

00:31:21.250 --> 00:31:25.019
No. And Nancy is actually very good at it. Yeah.

00:31:25.680 --> 00:31:28.920
Excellent. Really excellent. And they do a nice

00:31:28.920 --> 00:31:31.359
job, I think, here of showing, okay, she's got

00:31:31.359 --> 00:31:34.819
a natural talent. And unlike with a lot of other

00:31:34.819 --> 00:31:37.400
female characters, Stranger Things, which has

00:31:37.400 --> 00:31:39.759
already sort of been built on, hey, Eleven's

00:31:39.759 --> 00:31:43.240
super strong, Joyce is super amazing and talented,

00:31:43.279 --> 00:31:45.440
and Nancy's super cool. You don't hear a lot

00:31:45.440 --> 00:31:47.440
of Mary Sue complaints, and I'm very glad about

00:31:47.440 --> 00:31:52.819
it. Yeah. Mm -hmm. Yeah, the ladies have a pretty

00:31:52.819 --> 00:31:55.900
good representation in the show. Yeah. And a

00:31:55.900 --> 00:31:58.640
wide range as well, which I think is very nice.

00:31:58.680 --> 00:32:02.539
It's not just one type of strong woman or a strong

00:32:02.539 --> 00:32:05.019
girl or anything like that. Like Elle obviously

00:32:05.019 --> 00:32:09.359
is very, you know, essentially physically strong

00:32:09.359 --> 00:32:12.079
because of everything that she can do with her

00:32:12.079 --> 00:32:14.920
powers. And then Joyce being very like mentally

00:32:14.920 --> 00:32:17.740
and emotionally strong. Nancy intellectually

00:32:17.740 --> 00:32:22.390
strong. And then also has some of these physical

00:32:22.390 --> 00:32:25.509
talents as well, despite, you know, her slight

00:32:25.509 --> 00:32:28.170
build and things like that. Yes, absolutely.

00:32:28.849 --> 00:32:33.710
Very morally strong as well. Yes, well, not previously,

00:32:33.990 --> 00:32:38.369
but sure. No, but I mean, in terms of like, these

00:32:38.369 --> 00:32:40.190
things shouldn't be happening. Yes, what's right

00:32:40.190 --> 00:32:50.779
and wrong, absolutely. Just in general, they

00:32:50.779 --> 00:32:54.839
do a very good job of representing women in a

00:32:54.839 --> 00:32:57.700
very good way. And then when she get Max, you've

00:32:57.700 --> 00:33:01.700
got her. Skater punk girl strong is amazing.

00:33:02.019 --> 00:33:05.140
Awesomeness. Yeah. So good. So good. So, and

00:33:05.140 --> 00:33:08.500
again, a completely new, unique. And Lucas's

00:33:08.500 --> 00:33:10.740
sister as well. Character as well. Yeah. Whose

00:33:10.740 --> 00:33:13.039
name escapes me. Erica. Erica. Yes, thank you.

00:33:13.759 --> 00:33:20.019
She is so annoying for a while. And then she

00:33:20.019 --> 00:33:23.140
kind of grows on you a little bit. But yeah,

00:33:23.240 --> 00:33:26.160
super irritating with the bell at the counter.

00:33:26.799 --> 00:33:33.539
And Robin, another great female character. Yeah,

00:33:33.619 --> 00:33:35.839
just racking him up. Nailing it. Nailing it,

00:33:35.859 --> 00:33:38.299
indeed. And it's interesting. So for those of

00:33:38.299 --> 00:33:40.119
you who are unfamiliar with the term, Mary Sue

00:33:40.119 --> 00:33:44.839
is a derogatory term usually used to explain

00:33:44.839 --> 00:33:47.400
women characters that are... too strong too quick

00:33:47.400 --> 00:33:49.619
for a lot of people normally male viewers but

00:33:49.619 --> 00:33:53.099
not always male viewers um and in this case i

00:33:53.099 --> 00:33:56.559
i think there is there is room for an argument

00:33:56.559 --> 00:33:58.460
to be made oh why is she just suddenly good with

00:33:58.460 --> 00:34:00.700
guns but i think that they've done it in a way

00:34:00.700 --> 00:34:03.700
that shows she has a natural affinity for it

00:34:03.700 --> 00:34:06.140
that is satisfying for the viewer and i think

00:34:06.140 --> 00:34:09.320
that's what um what escapes that sort of argument,

00:34:09.380 --> 00:34:11.800
why that argument sort of falls apart, is it's

00:34:11.800 --> 00:34:14.059
done in a satisfying way for the viewer to hold

00:34:14.059 --> 00:34:18.219
on to. And even if they didn't, women can be

00:34:18.219 --> 00:34:21.380
naturally inclined to shooting guns. I've met

00:34:21.380 --> 00:34:23.940
very good, like, my wife is an excellent shot

00:34:23.940 --> 00:34:28.059
with a bow. Like, it happens sometimes. And we

00:34:28.059 --> 00:34:31.019
can all be a little bit less Mary Sue trigger

00:34:31.019 --> 00:34:34.159
happy. Not to make a gun pun on a Mary Sue comment.

00:34:34.380 --> 00:34:38.889
Anyways. So she, Nancy's a good shot. They find

00:34:38.889 --> 00:34:41.949
the Demogorgon. They realize when they find this

00:34:41.949 --> 00:34:44.130
dead deer, right? The deer's already bleeding,

00:34:44.170 --> 00:34:46.570
etc. And then the monster comes and gets it.

00:34:47.489 --> 00:34:52.550
They realize, oh, blood draws this. And whether

00:34:52.550 --> 00:34:55.969
or not, I don't know that Nancy ever realizes,

00:34:56.230 --> 00:34:58.630
oh, Barb was cut that night. I don't know that

00:34:58.630 --> 00:35:01.809
she says those lines, but it's... certainly inferred

00:35:01.809 --> 00:35:03.869
that they understand this she doesn't i don't

00:35:03.869 --> 00:35:05.710
think she says it in that moment but she does

00:35:05.710 --> 00:35:08.530
say it later on because she's listed yeah she's

00:35:08.530 --> 00:35:11.750
listing this oh and it showed up because of the

00:35:11.750 --> 00:35:14.329
blood here it showed up barb had her finger and

00:35:14.329 --> 00:35:18.670
all that yeah um yeah also nancy shows an uncanny

00:35:18.670 --> 00:35:22.550
amount of bravery in this sort of storyline because

00:35:22.550 --> 00:35:27.400
she she finds this organic hole In a tree? And

00:35:27.400 --> 00:35:31.460
is like, sure! And just crawls into it. Which

00:35:31.460 --> 00:35:35.199
also, blasting those, like, women don't want

00:35:35.199 --> 00:35:38.599
to get gross stereotypes there. Because, ew!

00:35:38.920 --> 00:35:42.820
Ew, it's nasty. As a woman who probably would,

00:35:42.900 --> 00:35:47.579
like, hesitate before climbing through a gross,

00:35:47.579 --> 00:35:51.909
gross thing like that. Props. I'd be scared.

00:35:52.329 --> 00:35:55.130
I'm amazed that nobody was like, hey, is there

00:35:55.130 --> 00:35:57.469
a possibility that this tree, that this is just

00:35:57.469 --> 00:36:00.170
a mouth for a weird upside down tree and it's

00:36:00.170 --> 00:36:03.550
going to eat me if I enter it? Like, that would

00:36:03.550 --> 00:36:05.809
be my first thought. There's no way I'd be going

00:36:05.809 --> 00:36:09.570
in. That's a valid concern. But she goes in and

00:36:09.570 --> 00:36:12.110
then, and then she's, you know, her teenage stupidity

00:36:12.110 --> 00:36:13.710
gets the better of her. She goes in without telling

00:36:13.710 --> 00:36:16.110
Jonathan. And I know they've kind of just been

00:36:16.110 --> 00:36:18.250
fighting. Because they're romantically getting

00:36:18.250 --> 00:36:20.150
to know each other, and they find that they're

00:36:20.150 --> 00:36:22.289
not at all similar, but they see each other's

00:36:22.289 --> 00:36:26.349
faults really well. But, like, she goes in without

00:36:26.349 --> 00:36:28.130
telling Jonathan, and then she's down there by

00:36:28.130 --> 00:36:30.210
herself with a Demogorgon and a gun, which is

00:36:30.210 --> 00:36:36.309
like, yeah, okay, babe. And then she just starts,

00:36:36.309 --> 00:36:42.219
like, wandering around. Bar? Yeah. Just... Oh,

00:36:42.260 --> 00:36:44.780
wow. I like, I crawled through a tree and now

00:36:44.780 --> 00:36:47.699
I'm in another forest, but it's really dark.

00:36:47.780 --> 00:36:50.480
And it seems like maybe this is like, there's

00:36:50.480 --> 00:36:53.900
like floating things. And I guess this is like,

00:36:53.920 --> 00:36:56.900
she just acts like it's so normal. Well, and

00:36:56.900 --> 00:36:59.500
then also just like, bye. There's this awesome

00:36:59.500 --> 00:37:03.199
hint to season two and moving forward. When she

00:37:03.199 --> 00:37:05.000
attracts the Demogorgon, it's not because she

00:37:05.000 --> 00:37:07.119
touches it or she's in view. She steps on a vine.

00:37:07.670 --> 00:37:10.610
Which is a huge thing about season two, is don't

00:37:10.610 --> 00:37:13.050
step on the vines. Right? It's all an interconnected

00:37:13.050 --> 00:37:17.349
hive mind. So that was really cool. It was nice

00:37:17.349 --> 00:37:19.610
to see that little, oh, okay, they are planning

00:37:19.610 --> 00:37:21.530
this out. Not that I doubt the Duffer Brothers

00:37:21.530 --> 00:37:24.869
at all. No. It's a cool little tidbit there.

00:37:25.489 --> 00:37:28.110
And then she escapes pretty easily. And you can

00:37:28.110 --> 00:37:29.829
hear each other in the Upside Down, it turns

00:37:29.829 --> 00:37:31.989
out. Right? Yeah, super interesting. Jonathan's

00:37:31.989 --> 00:37:34.380
calling for her. Nancy's calling for her. And

00:37:34.380 --> 00:37:36.800
it's unclear if it's coming through the hole

00:37:36.800 --> 00:37:39.760
of the tree or if it's if it's just like kind

00:37:39.760 --> 00:37:42.800
of in the air. And I feel like it's kind of there

00:37:42.800 --> 00:37:45.619
because Joyce later and Jonathan can kind of

00:37:45.619 --> 00:37:47.219
hear each other in episode eight in the finale.

00:37:47.380 --> 00:37:51.500
But of course, Will and then in Will can hear.

00:37:51.659 --> 00:37:56.780
Yeah. And in season and in season four. Yeah.

00:37:56.860 --> 00:37:58.699
That's like a whole thing where they're like

00:37:58.699 --> 00:38:00.940
walking parallel to each other and like calling

00:38:00.940 --> 00:38:06.050
through essentially. Yeah, I'm realizing as I'm

00:38:06.050 --> 00:38:08.090
talking about walking through and walking parallel

00:38:08.090 --> 00:38:10.429
that I'm doing all these hand gestures that totally

00:38:10.429 --> 00:38:14.889
work for an audio medium. I'm right there with

00:38:14.889 --> 00:38:18.369
you. The auditory experience is really enhanced

00:38:18.369 --> 00:38:23.429
by all of my wild hand motions. Y 'all are welcome.

00:38:23.530 --> 00:38:26.590
So then Nancy does manage to escape. She climbs

00:38:26.590 --> 00:38:28.650
back through the weird gross hole, which I will

00:38:28.650 --> 00:38:32.099
say the one thing about this season. other than

00:38:32.099 --> 00:38:35.380
this wild middle school serial killer moment

00:38:35.380 --> 00:38:39.019
that I don't like is at the end of season five,

00:38:39.199 --> 00:38:43.519
the, the hole starts to close. Yeah. And, and

00:38:43.519 --> 00:38:46.099
then it's like, they kind of play around with

00:38:46.099 --> 00:38:48.539
the bark motion being like, Oh, am I closing?

00:38:48.659 --> 00:38:50.739
Am I not? But it's like, no, at the very end

00:38:50.739 --> 00:38:52.699
of season five, you were clear at season five,

00:38:52.739 --> 00:38:54.360
at the very end of episode five, you were clearly

00:38:54.360 --> 00:38:57.599
closing the hole and now it's open. And I, I

00:38:57.599 --> 00:38:59.820
just, it's a little cheap and I don't love it.

00:39:00.500 --> 00:39:02.699
Yeah. Just a little bit. It's a great cliffhanger.

00:39:02.699 --> 00:39:05.119
It works well for the TV medium format, but it's

00:39:05.119 --> 00:39:12.119
kind of like, Gah! So then, Steve enters this

00:39:12.119 --> 00:39:16.000
sort of love triangle, which, of course, he does.

00:39:16.139 --> 00:39:18.940
But Steve and his friends, it's unclear who actually

00:39:18.940 --> 00:39:21.340
writes the message at first, and then turns out

00:39:21.340 --> 00:39:23.760
it's Steve's awful, terrible friend who spray

00:39:23.760 --> 00:39:27.760
paints Nancy starring Nancy the Slut Wheeler.

00:39:28.219 --> 00:39:31.679
on a marquee for all the right absolutely horrible

00:39:31.679 --> 00:39:35.820
just a disgusting remark horrible um and jonathan

00:39:35.820 --> 00:39:39.599
beats up steve which put heck yeah put steve

00:39:39.599 --> 00:39:44.559
down for he's oh and one uh for those of you

00:39:44.559 --> 00:39:48.179
going to keep track at home oh and one currently

00:39:48.179 --> 00:39:56.359
q robin with her board of you win you lose So,

00:39:56.359 --> 00:39:59.260
and then Jonathan gets arrested. And we have

00:39:59.260 --> 00:40:01.940
this awesome moment where Hopper's already with

00:40:01.940 --> 00:40:04.480
Joyce, which we'll get to in a second. And he

00:40:04.480 --> 00:40:07.500
comes and he's like, what happened? And Jonathan's

00:40:07.500 --> 00:40:10.099
like, you won't believe me. And he sidles up

00:40:10.099 --> 00:40:13.860
to him and he goes, give me a try. Yeah. Why

00:40:13.860 --> 00:40:15.159
don't you give me a chance? Something like that.

00:40:15.360 --> 00:40:17.039
Which is just this great little moment of like,

00:40:17.159 --> 00:40:23.880
oh, we're all coming together. Yay! Yay! And

00:40:23.880 --> 00:40:26.900
that is Nancy and Jonathan's storyline, which

00:40:26.900 --> 00:40:30.199
is, I think, the most riveting of all of them

00:40:30.199 --> 00:40:35.840
from a plot perspective. Then there's Hop and

00:40:35.840 --> 00:40:40.699
Joyce. Okay, so Hopper at the very end of the

00:40:40.699 --> 00:40:43.519
last episode, our last podcast episode, had just

00:40:43.519 --> 00:40:46.920
cut open the already autopsied question mark

00:40:46.920 --> 00:40:49.750
Will Byers, why are there no stitches? Why are

00:40:49.750 --> 00:40:58.210
there no stitches, Will? Why are there no stitches,

00:40:58.429 --> 00:41:02.329
Will? Okay. And finds all the bedding fluff inside

00:41:02.329 --> 00:41:05.670
of him. And is like, okay, so this is all terrible.

00:41:05.869 --> 00:41:10.630
He wakes up in his apartment after getting caught

00:41:10.630 --> 00:41:13.010
in the lab, trying to infiltrate the lab. He

00:41:13.010 --> 00:41:15.349
wakes up in his, like, cabin, which is not the

00:41:15.349 --> 00:41:17.449
cabin in the woods yet. It's his, like, little...

00:41:17.760 --> 00:41:22.579
long ranch styled house by the lake um and he

00:41:22.579 --> 00:41:26.079
uh has been they've scattered pills everywhere

00:41:26.079 --> 00:41:30.239
they put yeah clearly a setup yeah yeah very

00:41:30.239 --> 00:41:32.800
clearly cans of beer and what is it that he does

00:41:32.800 --> 00:41:38.440
immediately he starts looking around to figure

00:41:38.440 --> 00:41:41.099
out what they did yeah absolutely because he

00:41:41.099 --> 00:41:44.199
he thinks he's bugged which is just like oh it's

00:41:44.199 --> 00:41:49.170
so cool how smart he is And I just dig that scene

00:41:49.170 --> 00:41:51.389
so much. Although I will say, you don't have

00:41:51.389 --> 00:41:57.010
to rip up your couch cushions. I, yeah. I feel

00:41:57.010 --> 00:42:00.510
like every time that I see, every time that I

00:42:00.510 --> 00:42:03.869
see, it's a common thing in when people start

00:42:03.869 --> 00:42:05.809
getting paranoid that like something's hidden

00:42:05.809 --> 00:42:08.469
in their house or whatever, and they start, or

00:42:08.469 --> 00:42:12.800
even in a, And I think it's a man from uncle.

00:42:13.000 --> 00:42:16.239
They're in the hotel and they start, but they

00:42:16.239 --> 00:42:19.019
always rip into the cushions. And I'm like, you

00:42:19.019 --> 00:42:23.219
really think that they took the time to unstitch

00:42:23.219 --> 00:42:27.320
a cushion, put it inside the cushion and then

00:42:27.320 --> 00:42:30.820
restitch the cushion. Like there's not like a

00:42:30.820 --> 00:42:33.500
rip in it. There's not a, if there's a zipper,

00:42:33.559 --> 00:42:39.090
maybe use that. I mean, there's a lot of ways

00:42:39.090 --> 00:42:42.550
to, like, get in and see if this is here. A metal

00:42:42.550 --> 00:42:46.590
detector, maybe. Literally anything except for

00:42:46.590 --> 00:42:49.650
destroying your couch. Like, okay, it doesn't

00:42:49.650 --> 00:42:51.389
look like a very expensive couch, and it's a

00:42:51.389 --> 00:42:56.469
horrible upholstery on it anyways. But if that's

00:42:56.469 --> 00:42:58.190
your only couch. And that's your only couch.

00:42:58.210 --> 00:43:00.230
And also, it's not like he does a very thorough

00:43:00.230 --> 00:43:03.030
job looking. He splits open the middle. He digs

00:43:03.030 --> 00:43:04.969
into it and is like, must not be there. And it's

00:43:04.969 --> 00:43:08.159
like, bro. He finished the job. He didn't even,

00:43:08.179 --> 00:43:12.460
like, really look. It's probably all bugs. He

00:43:12.460 --> 00:43:14.579
just really hated that couch. Really, he's like.

00:43:14.920 --> 00:43:17.380
He needed an excuse to get rid of it. Oh, no,

00:43:17.519 --> 00:43:20.360
they bugged my apartment. Rip, rip. Oh, I guess

00:43:20.360 --> 00:43:25.059
I have an excuse to buy a new couch. That's so

00:43:25.059 --> 00:43:28.960
funny. He does eventually find a recording device

00:43:28.960 --> 00:43:32.539
that's in one of his main lamp, I think. He undoes

00:43:32.539 --> 00:43:34.039
it and it's in there with his light bulb and

00:43:34.039 --> 00:43:37.940
stuff, which is terrifying. Yeah. But it means

00:43:37.940 --> 00:43:40.400
that he's on to something. So he finds Joyce.

00:43:40.400 --> 00:43:43.260
Yes. And in one of my favorite moments, Joyce

00:43:43.260 --> 00:43:45.219
thinks it's Lonnie. They've just had this giant

00:43:45.219 --> 00:43:47.519
blow up about Lonnie's really just there to collect

00:43:47.519 --> 00:43:50.079
money from the organization that owns the quarry.

00:43:50.079 --> 00:43:52.900
There's no danger signs. There's no all of this.

00:43:53.000 --> 00:43:54.960
So he should be made accountable, which I'm like,

00:43:55.019 --> 00:43:57.639
yes, actually, all of that's true. They should

00:43:57.639 --> 00:44:00.170
be held accountable. And if Will really did die

00:44:00.170 --> 00:44:03.429
in that. Except for the fact. But he's not actually

00:44:03.429 --> 00:44:06.070
dead. And also Lonnie's just not supportive and

00:44:06.070 --> 00:44:07.710
he's just there for the money. And I love Joyce

00:44:07.710 --> 00:44:10.329
being strong in that whole moment. But Joyce

00:44:10.329 --> 00:44:14.250
thinks Lonnie has come back. And she's, you know,

00:44:14.269 --> 00:44:17.130
having a fit. As one does when you think that

00:44:17.130 --> 00:44:19.969
your undead child is on the other side of some

00:44:19.969 --> 00:44:21.610
weird mystery world that you have no idea what's

00:44:21.610 --> 00:44:24.110
going on. She starts screaming at him and she

00:44:24.110 --> 00:44:27.190
opens the door and it's this awesome moment of

00:44:27.190 --> 00:44:29.949
Hopper. with his finger over his lips, holding

00:44:29.949 --> 00:44:33.010
this sign that says, don't say anything. And

00:44:33.010 --> 00:44:35.889
then it cuts. And it's just, oh, the feels are

00:44:35.889 --> 00:44:40.630
great. They're so good. Yeah. I love that scene.

00:44:41.170 --> 00:44:43.909
It's very good. And then Hopper and Joyce sort

00:44:43.909 --> 00:44:47.969
of go about trying to track down any information

00:44:47.969 --> 00:44:51.070
they can. And eventually, when they reach Jonathan,

00:44:51.269 --> 00:44:53.510
they're able to start putting all the pieces

00:44:53.510 --> 00:44:57.460
together. And that gets us to this. deprivation

00:44:57.460 --> 00:45:01.360
tank where Joyce is the one saying how do we

00:45:01.360 --> 00:45:03.739
make this all better because Dustin and Mike

00:45:03.739 --> 00:45:06.980
are going over oh like she needs to refuel she's

00:45:06.980 --> 00:45:10.340
really low on battery power and Joyce ever the

00:45:10.340 --> 00:45:12.960
cognizant human being how do we make this better

00:45:12.960 --> 00:45:16.500
and then that's when Elle is like I think I know

00:45:16.500 --> 00:45:19.159
how and they call Dr. Clark and we get moving

00:45:19.159 --> 00:45:22.199
and we get that awesome classic scene of making

00:45:22.199 --> 00:45:24.320
the deprivation tank out of a kiddie pool in

00:45:24.320 --> 00:45:27.650
the gym Yeah, so good. Those are your three best

00:45:27.650 --> 00:45:30.309
ones. They're fantastic. They're great. They

00:45:30.309 --> 00:45:35.489
lead us into season, episode eight. Very, very

00:45:35.489 --> 00:45:37.869
well. And you've got a note here about what season

00:45:37.869 --> 00:45:39.909
seven is really, episode seven is really doing.

00:45:40.630 --> 00:45:44.090
Yeah. I mean, I feel like throughout one through

00:45:44.090 --> 00:45:47.829
six episodes, you have very distinct storylines.

00:45:49.010 --> 00:45:51.630
happening simultaneously but then in episode

00:45:51.630 --> 00:45:53.849
7 it's exciting because we finally get to see

00:45:53.849 --> 00:45:57.050
all of them overlap and then we really need to

00:45:57.050 --> 00:46:02.570
focus on one storyline which is Brenner's singular

00:46:02.570 --> 00:46:06.530
singular focus on finding and retrieving Elle

00:46:06.530 --> 00:46:09.289
so it's almost like we have all these different

00:46:09.289 --> 00:46:11.769
things happening and then it all comes in together

00:46:11.769 --> 00:46:13.750
they share all the information everybody's in

00:46:13.750 --> 00:46:16.530
the know And now we need to focus on this other

00:46:16.530 --> 00:46:20.230
important thing. And it's finding and retrieving

00:46:20.230 --> 00:46:22.489
Elle is more important to him than research,

00:46:22.650 --> 00:46:25.190
more important to him than the Demogorgon, than

00:46:25.190 --> 00:46:27.849
anything else that he has going on, which is

00:46:27.849 --> 00:46:32.570
fascinating, especially with how we see from

00:46:32.570 --> 00:46:34.530
flashbacks and then what we see in the future,

00:46:34.570 --> 00:46:37.469
how he treats her and their relationship and

00:46:37.469 --> 00:46:39.989
everything. The fact that she is that important

00:46:39.989 --> 00:46:43.719
to him is. Very vital. Well, and it's interesting

00:46:43.719 --> 00:46:46.420
to hear. So if you this is going to be a little

00:46:46.420 --> 00:46:49.800
bit of a spoiler for the play. One of the things

00:46:49.800 --> 00:46:52.260
that really inspired the Duffer Brothers is something

00:46:52.260 --> 00:46:54.500
called the Philadelphia Experiment, which is

00:46:54.500 --> 00:46:58.079
an urban legend that claimed a U .S. Navy destroyer,

00:46:58.079 --> 00:47:00.880
a .k .a. the USS Eldred, was made invisible and

00:47:00.880 --> 00:47:04.360
teleported during a military experiment in 1943

00:47:04.360 --> 00:47:07.480
involving like intense electromagnetic fields.

00:47:07.699 --> 00:47:10.739
This is the this actual experiment opens the

00:47:10.739 --> 00:47:15.719
play. And it turns out that Brenner's father

00:47:15.719 --> 00:47:22.579
is on this ship. And so that sort of is why he's

00:47:22.579 --> 00:47:25.300
so interested in all of this stuff. And then

00:47:25.300 --> 00:47:27.360
you know, okay, so he lost his dad to this because

00:47:27.360 --> 00:47:30.519
in the play, this ship ends up in the Upside

00:47:30.519 --> 00:47:34.000
Down and everybody dies. Oh, interesting. Yeah,

00:47:34.059 --> 00:47:37.800
it's fascinating. And that's how I remember it

00:47:37.800 --> 00:47:39.559
best. So I might not be 100 % on the details

00:47:39.559 --> 00:47:42.280
because I saw it. once and i wasn't like taking

00:47:42.280 --> 00:47:47.280
active notes during the play um but uh and so

00:47:47.280 --> 00:47:49.099
you see you know he's lost a family member like

00:47:49.099 --> 00:47:52.440
that already and then he loses his son going

00:47:52.440 --> 00:47:55.280
into the rift and and so everything becomes about

00:47:55.280 --> 00:47:57.739
this one child who can do all of these things

00:47:57.739 --> 00:47:59.340
that he's interested in finding out information

00:47:59.340 --> 00:48:02.400
about so l becomes like his entire world which

00:48:02.400 --> 00:48:06.860
i think is really fascinating um yeah all right

00:48:06.860 --> 00:48:10.380
moving on keep a finger On the pause button,

00:48:10.440 --> 00:48:12.800
everybody, and rewind that tape, it's time for

00:48:12.800 --> 00:48:15.260
the prestige category for what did we notice

00:48:15.260 --> 00:48:19.159
on this watch through. Sierra. Episode five gets

00:48:19.159 --> 00:48:22.840
us our first upside down. Indeed, it really does.

00:48:23.179 --> 00:48:26.159
Yeah, it's the first time we hear of it referred

00:48:26.159 --> 00:48:30.219
to as upside down. It takes five episodes, which

00:48:30.219 --> 00:48:34.460
is kind of wild. And then that, you know, carries

00:48:34.460 --> 00:48:36.699
through for the rest of the show, which is pretty

00:48:36.699 --> 00:48:39.920
great. Indeed. I wrote down a couple things here.

00:48:40.019 --> 00:48:43.019
Lonnie just sucks. He sucks as a husband. He

00:48:43.019 --> 00:48:46.539
does. He sucks as a dad. Remember? Terrible.

00:48:46.539 --> 00:48:50.579
He's in Jonathan's room and he's got like something

00:48:50.579 --> 00:48:52.880
of the nature of Creature of the Black Lagoon.

00:48:53.460 --> 00:48:56.119
movie poster it's not that exact one but it's

00:48:56.119 --> 00:48:58.960
a monster with a hand on the throat of a young

00:48:58.960 --> 00:49:01.480
woman kind of dragging her down into it's like

00:49:01.480 --> 00:49:03.519
night of the living dead or something like that

00:49:03.519 --> 00:49:06.059
of that nature um and he points to it he says

00:49:06.059 --> 00:49:08.260
take that down it's inappropriate like who are

00:49:08.260 --> 00:49:10.000
you after all these years to come marching back

00:49:10.000 --> 00:49:12.559
into my to my room to tell me what or is not

00:49:12.559 --> 00:49:16.119
appropriate like clearly joyce goes into their

00:49:16.119 --> 00:49:18.260
bedrooms and sees things and if she's cool with

00:49:18.260 --> 00:49:20.320
it is fine with it who are you like you have

00:49:20.320 --> 00:49:25.519
no power here bud um yeah exactly and then uh

00:49:25.519 --> 00:49:29.659
i wrote down here wait l doesn't know how to

00:49:29.659 --> 00:49:31.360
get to the upside down is she lying and then

00:49:31.360 --> 00:49:33.960
i realized oh yeah that's right she is she's

00:49:33.960 --> 00:49:35.900
lying through her teeth yeah this entire time

00:49:40.280 --> 00:49:43.800
I wrote down that Lucas certainly has a lot of

00:49:43.800 --> 00:49:46.500
expectations for a kid who's only said about

00:49:46.500 --> 00:49:51.659
10 words. He just thinks that L should know everything

00:49:51.659 --> 00:49:55.119
and be able to do everything, and he just met

00:49:55.119 --> 00:49:58.880
this girl two days ago, and somehow she should

00:49:58.880 --> 00:50:04.599
be omniscient and omnipowerful and everything,

00:50:05.280 --> 00:50:10.260
and just be able to do whatever they ask. because

00:50:10.260 --> 00:50:12.440
they totally have a right to just demand things

00:50:12.440 --> 00:50:14.179
of her question. It's really interesting because

00:50:14.179 --> 00:50:16.480
it's such a juxtaposition from the way that Mike

00:50:16.480 --> 00:50:20.099
treats Max next season. So we know Lucas is jealous

00:50:20.099 --> 00:50:22.260
of the amount of attention that Elle is receiving

00:50:22.260 --> 00:50:25.079
from Mike because Mike and Lucas are best friends.

00:50:25.219 --> 00:50:29.280
And then Mike is super jealous of the attention

00:50:29.280 --> 00:50:33.119
that Lucas is giving Max in season two. But instead,

00:50:33.199 --> 00:50:36.239
Lucas is thinking way too much of Elle versus

00:50:36.239 --> 00:50:40.079
Mike thinks way too little of Max. Yeah. Definitely.

00:50:41.099 --> 00:50:43.380
Yeah, it's pretty interesting. It really is.

00:50:43.659 --> 00:50:45.860
I have written down a couple different notes.

00:50:45.920 --> 00:50:48.599
Jonathan knows where his dad keeps his gun, and

00:50:48.599 --> 00:50:51.199
he can pick locks, and he can take killer photos

00:50:51.199 --> 00:50:54.260
and make breakfast and be caring of his family.

00:50:54.300 --> 00:50:58.440
Why is Nancy dating Steve at all? Jonathan is

00:50:58.440 --> 00:51:02.460
a full package of a man. Yes, but Steve has the

00:51:02.460 --> 00:51:06.639
hair. Jonathan does have very bad hair. That's

00:51:06.639 --> 00:51:09.659
very true. Yes. But also, like, Steve the Hair

00:51:09.659 --> 00:51:11.440
Harrington. Steve the Hair Harrington. Yeah,

00:51:11.519 --> 00:51:16.039
that's true. But also, like, Nancy's smart enough

00:51:16.039 --> 00:51:17.960
to know that there's more to life than hair.

00:51:18.800 --> 00:51:21.940
Yeah, I mean, but every teenage girl can get

00:51:21.940 --> 00:51:24.679
distracted by the hair for a hot minute. Come

00:51:24.679 --> 00:51:28.239
on. Stupid. She figures it out. She does, eventually,

00:51:28.500 --> 00:51:33.099
but she's an idiot. She does. What teenager isn't?

00:51:33.420 --> 00:51:35.880
That's very accurate. Sorry, teenagers, but it's

00:51:35.880 --> 00:51:39.320
true. We're all a little bit of an idiot when

00:51:39.320 --> 00:51:42.820
we're teens. It's fine. Yes. Hopper turns to

00:51:42.820 --> 00:51:44.780
Joyce's side is my favorite part of the season

00:51:44.780 --> 00:51:47.099
because he starts out so like, oh my gosh, is

00:51:47.099 --> 00:51:49.340
he just with Lonnie? Will's probably just with

00:51:49.340 --> 00:51:52.659
his dad. All the way to like, I know everything

00:51:52.659 --> 00:51:55.599
that you've been talking about is real. And I'm

00:51:55.599 --> 00:51:59.539
here to help. Yeah. That's by far my favorite

00:51:59.539 --> 00:52:03.150
part of the season. Alright, major question here.

00:52:03.230 --> 00:52:07.590
How is there a gate in the tree? The only thing

00:52:07.590 --> 00:52:15.269
that I can think of is that the Demogorgon, when

00:52:15.269 --> 00:52:20.190
on the scent of blood, can open a temporary passage

00:52:20.190 --> 00:52:23.949
to get through, same as him attempting to go

00:52:23.949 --> 00:52:26.530
through the wall. But how? In Joyce's place.

00:52:27.150 --> 00:52:32.820
I don't know. Because Demogorgon magic? But how

00:52:32.820 --> 00:52:36.440
do Demogorgons have magic? I don't know. Yeah,

00:52:36.480 --> 00:52:39.199
okay. So this is my real speculation is that

00:52:39.199 --> 00:52:43.119
Vecna is doing this. That Vecna, the other telekinetic

00:52:43.119 --> 00:52:46.619
being in the world that's been in there is open.

00:52:46.699 --> 00:52:48.420
But then a part of me is like, but then why isn't

00:52:48.420 --> 00:52:51.719
he just popping out and doing that? And is it

00:52:51.719 --> 00:52:53.920
just like because the rift is weak and therefore

00:52:53.920 --> 00:52:56.500
things are now starting to pop open everywhere?

00:52:56.820 --> 00:52:59.289
Like, I just don't understand. Why this tree

00:52:59.289 --> 00:53:01.690
has a hole and why a Demogorgon can be like,

00:53:01.750 --> 00:53:04.389
I can now press through to the other side. He's

00:53:04.389 --> 00:53:06.670
not the door. Sorry, that's a terrible joke.

00:53:07.050 --> 00:53:10.750
Break on through to the other side. No, I got

00:53:10.750 --> 00:53:15.469
you. So, okay, but here's the thing. So here

00:53:15.469 --> 00:53:18.750
there's a gate in a tree and the Demogorgon can

00:53:18.750 --> 00:53:21.110
pop through and Nancy can go through. In the

00:53:21.110 --> 00:53:24.090
next season, Hop digs a hole into the Upside

00:53:24.090 --> 00:53:28.530
Down. Right. So, I think it's just, like, once

00:53:28.530 --> 00:53:32.969
the gate is open, the veil is weak. It's, like,

00:53:32.989 --> 00:53:36.190
just tears through the time -space continuum,

00:53:36.309 --> 00:53:40.210
essentially, of, Sam, the real reason is it's

00:53:40.210 --> 00:53:44.710
wibbly -wobbly timey -wimey time. I know that's

00:53:44.710 --> 00:53:47.170
the real reason that it's there, because the

00:53:47.170 --> 00:53:50.090
plot needs points, but, like, I just want to

00:53:50.090 --> 00:53:53.630
understand for the world what's going on. I know.

00:53:53.630 --> 00:53:58.130
It's so frustrating. uh you know what's not what

00:53:58.130 --> 00:54:01.869
is also frustrating but understandable yeah is

00:54:01.869 --> 00:54:07.670
your hatred of mike i do i do not i do not like

00:54:07.670 --> 00:54:10.969
mike and that's one of my main notes here i and

00:54:10.969 --> 00:54:12.989
this this will continue you are not like the

00:54:12.989 --> 00:54:17.869
movie from like mike yes i'm not like the commercials

00:54:17.869 --> 00:54:20.550
like mike if he was michael jeffrey jordan's

00:54:20.550 --> 00:54:25.990
i would absolutely like mike but he's not Michael,

00:54:25.990 --> 00:54:28.449
whatever their last name is, that's not Byers.

00:54:28.909 --> 00:54:32.809
Wheeler. Wheeler, thank you. Okay, this will

00:54:32.809 --> 00:54:35.250
continue every season that I don't like Mike.

00:54:35.389 --> 00:54:37.769
One of my all -time favorite moments is when

00:54:37.769 --> 00:54:42.000
Hopper... decides to to not quiet parent or soft

00:54:42.000 --> 00:54:44.500
parent mike when he's like i'll use my words

00:54:44.500 --> 00:54:47.059
and then he just decides to lay into him and

00:54:47.059 --> 00:54:50.440
like in the car when mike's being an absolute

00:54:50.440 --> 00:54:53.679
like garbage faced human being to him and he

00:54:53.679 --> 00:54:55.400
just feels it and i'm like yeah and i'm like

00:54:55.400 --> 00:54:57.300
i'm not that type of person in real life i think

00:54:57.300 --> 00:54:58.980
everyone should use their words and you should

00:54:58.980 --> 00:55:03.039
be patient and good with but like i can't stand

00:55:03.039 --> 00:55:06.780
this kid i love the actor he's great But Mike

00:55:06.780 --> 00:55:09.139
is just so annoying. And people are like, oh,

00:55:09.159 --> 00:55:11.019
he's the leader. He's like my favorite character.

00:55:11.119 --> 00:55:13.440
What leadership is he doing? Just looking at

00:55:13.440 --> 00:55:15.519
Al and being like, what's wrong with you? And

00:55:15.519 --> 00:55:21.019
boom, leadership done. Out. Tell me. Okay, I

00:55:21.019 --> 00:55:27.139
will. I will, however. I will get to this when

00:55:27.139 --> 00:55:30.340
we start talking about the crazy serial killer.

00:55:30.880 --> 00:55:35.260
kid i will get to the the little bit of redeeming

00:55:35.260 --> 00:55:37.619
mike ness okay we'll get there great we'll get

00:55:37.619 --> 00:55:39.900
there his willingness to just jump off a quarry

00:55:39.900 --> 00:55:42.780
being like i'll be fine i mean basically but

00:55:42.780 --> 00:55:45.840
but here's the thing we'll get there okay sorry

00:55:45.840 --> 00:55:50.480
all right all right before then before then mike

00:55:50.480 --> 00:55:54.820
makes a comment that it's like r2d2 trying to

00:55:54.820 --> 00:55:58.349
fight darth vader um I'm sorry, but I think that

00:55:58.349 --> 00:56:02.329
would actually probably go pretty well. Okay.

00:56:02.349 --> 00:56:05.210
I think R2 -D2 has a great chance of fighting

00:56:05.210 --> 00:56:08.289
Vader, and here's a couple reasons why. First

00:56:08.289 --> 00:56:11.809
of all, the personal relationship between R2

00:56:11.809 --> 00:56:17.849
-D2 and Anakin Skywalker, in and of itself, I

00:56:17.849 --> 00:56:21.610
think, could lend itself very well. R2 -D2 knows

00:56:21.610 --> 00:56:28.139
how to interact with this man. and has the ability

00:56:28.139 --> 00:56:35.420
as the narrator of the story to defeat Darth

00:56:35.420 --> 00:56:38.860
Vader. I was thinking about this a lot. Sneaky.

00:56:39.739 --> 00:56:42.739
Sneaky ways. He's not going to one -on -one combat

00:56:42.739 --> 00:56:48.320
him. That's the main point. At first I was like,

00:56:48.440 --> 00:56:51.599
what the heck? I don't want to get us too sidetracked,

00:56:51.699 --> 00:56:55.510
but at first I was like, Sierra, this is stupid.

00:56:55.610 --> 00:56:59.989
This would not go well. Vader would, like, coke

00:56:59.989 --> 00:57:04.769
crush R2 against his head. Like, he just uses

00:57:04.769 --> 00:57:07.510
the force on this metal and goes... Like, do

00:57:07.510 --> 00:57:10.889
we not remember when he woke up and said no and

00:57:10.889 --> 00:57:13.389
destroyed the hospital that he was in when he

00:57:13.389 --> 00:57:15.610
turned to Vader? And then I was like, oh, wait,

00:57:15.670 --> 00:57:17.710
no, but R2 knows that Anakin's Vader. Oh, wait,

00:57:17.730 --> 00:57:20.309
no, he doesn't. And he doesn't know the extent

00:57:20.309 --> 00:57:24.980
of his injuries. because he wasn't there on Mustafar.

00:57:25.039 --> 00:57:26.599
He got told to stay with the ship, which is the

00:57:26.599 --> 00:57:29.239
whole reason why R2, when Luke was like, stay

00:57:29.239 --> 00:57:32.360
with the ship, R2's like, no, in Empire. No.

00:57:32.760 --> 00:57:37.639
Yeah. But... Ha ha. I learned from my mistake.

00:57:38.659 --> 00:57:43.179
Fool me once, shame on you. And R2 is like, and

00:57:43.179 --> 00:57:46.119
R2 is kind of validated by that decision because...

00:57:46.400 --> 00:57:48.679
Luke only loses a hand. He doesn't lose three

00:57:48.679 --> 00:57:51.780
limbs and get burnt to a crisp. So that's a point

00:57:51.780 --> 00:57:58.300
for R2. But this is not Star Wars. So then I

00:57:58.300 --> 00:58:02.480
was like, okay, actually, though, Vader has a

00:58:02.480 --> 00:58:04.519
lot of metal in him. A lot of machinery in him.

00:58:04.559 --> 00:58:06.780
R2 is a droid. His whole thing is to mess around

00:58:06.780 --> 00:58:09.639
with machinery. And so if R2, probably with all

00:58:09.639 --> 00:58:12.099
of his sensors, pick up that Vader is... mainly

00:58:12.099 --> 00:58:16.280
metal for almost all of his limbs, and that his

00:58:16.280 --> 00:58:18.139
suit regulates his breathing and all that sort

00:58:18.139 --> 00:58:21.699
of stuff. I do wonder, because again, Vader can't

00:58:21.699 --> 00:58:25.960
sense metal in the Force. Right. It brings all

00:58:25.960 --> 00:58:28.039
living beings together, and as much as R2 and

00:58:28.039 --> 00:58:31.500
C -3PO, we love them, they're not technically

00:58:31.500 --> 00:58:33.840
by Force standards living unless they're like

00:58:33.840 --> 00:58:36.599
R5, but that's a whole different discussion.

00:58:37.980 --> 00:58:42.920
Yeah. So... I think it would be possible if R2

00:58:42.920 --> 00:58:47.380
is sneaky that he fires off an EMB and just completely

00:58:47.380 --> 00:58:51.039
obliterates Vader's suit. His life support system

00:58:51.039 --> 00:58:56.960
is just decimated. I'm saying. And then I think

00:58:56.960 --> 00:58:58.719
it could work out. Otherwise, I think he has

00:58:58.719 --> 00:59:00.800
absolutely no choice. Because I really do think

00:59:00.800 --> 00:59:03.360
they would just pan over. And if it was Stranger

00:59:03.360 --> 00:59:05.119
Things, they would pan over and Archie would

00:59:05.119 --> 00:59:07.340
be literally painted to look like a Coke can

00:59:07.340 --> 00:59:09.519
for product placement. And then he would just

00:59:09.519 --> 00:59:13.639
L Stranger Things the Coke can. But it would

00:59:13.639 --> 00:59:20.519
be Vader and DT. Anyways. I love this. Also,

00:59:20.980 --> 00:59:24.960
I forgot how much we hate Steve. Yeah. In this

00:59:24.960 --> 00:59:30.659
first season. Absolutely. And also, I wrote this

00:59:30.659 --> 00:59:33.659
here and then I continued, you know, my rewatch.

00:59:34.059 --> 00:59:38.739
But I said, also, do we just never hear about

00:59:38.739 --> 00:59:42.019
his terrible friends again? Do they die? Please

00:59:42.019 --> 00:59:44.940
tell me they die. Okay. So my headcanon for this.

00:59:44.940 --> 00:59:50.300
Because his friends are horrible. My headcanon

00:59:50.300 --> 00:59:54.480
for this is that this Troy, who we're going to

00:59:54.480 --> 00:59:55.980
speak of, we've been alluding to this moment

00:59:55.980 --> 00:59:58.139
the whole time, and we're still not there, but

00:59:58.139 --> 00:59:59.820
that Troy, who's the guy that threatens Dustin

00:59:59.820 --> 01:00:02.860
with a knife, is actually a little itty -bitty

01:00:02.860 --> 01:00:08.460
committee serial killer. And he goes around offing

01:00:08.460 --> 01:00:10.119
some people, and that's why certain characters

01:00:10.119 --> 01:00:13.500
disappear, including himself. We never really

01:00:13.500 --> 01:00:17.179
see Troy that much again. And so he does that

01:00:17.179 --> 01:00:20.599
to Steve's... terrible friends and that's the

01:00:20.599 --> 01:00:22.500
reason why they're gone is that he's just the

01:00:22.500 --> 01:00:24.739
background serial killer that victim's like hey

01:00:24.739 --> 01:00:28.400
i'm not even having to do all the bad stuff that

01:00:28.400 --> 01:00:35.860
would be a wild side story criminal minds taking

01:00:35.860 --> 01:00:39.360
place during strange would be a great spin -off

01:00:39.360 --> 01:00:44.280
it would be great uh Yes, finally in episode

01:00:44.280 --> 01:00:47.019
seven, though, as I spoke about before, we start

01:00:47.019 --> 01:00:50.159
getting some inner storyline communication. It

01:00:50.159 --> 01:00:55.639
absolutely drives me nuts. I get very anxious

01:00:55.639 --> 01:00:59.059
sometimes during these seasons when certain people

01:00:59.059 --> 01:01:02.119
know certain things and they're just not sharing

01:01:02.119 --> 01:01:05.079
it with the class. I'm like, you guys are brother

01:01:05.079 --> 01:01:12.050
and sister. Talk. talk you you guys are our uh

01:01:12.050 --> 01:01:16.489
son and mother just share something i'm like

01:01:16.489 --> 01:01:21.090
you guys are in the same house like share something

01:01:21.090 --> 01:01:23.750
drives me nuts but then hop is getting all the

01:01:23.750 --> 01:01:27.070
pieces together thank goodness that he can start

01:01:27.070 --> 01:01:31.170
actually melding it into one and he's not like

01:01:31.170 --> 01:01:34.090
one track minded just thinking oh that can't

01:01:34.090 --> 01:01:37.219
have anything to do with this Goodness gracious,

01:01:37.420 --> 01:01:39.519
it's a good thing he doesn't believe in coincidences.

01:01:40.239 --> 01:01:44.880
And he's able to pull it all together, and it's

01:01:44.880 --> 01:01:48.219
awesome. Thank goodness. Speaking of things that

01:01:48.219 --> 01:01:50.619
drive me crazy and Hopper melding together, can

01:01:50.619 --> 01:01:53.940
we get him a new hat? I hate his hat. His hat's

01:01:53.940 --> 01:01:57.159
terrible. It doesn't really work for his head.

01:01:57.739 --> 01:01:59.400
It's like, you know, supposed to be going for

01:01:59.400 --> 01:02:02.139
this kind of old -fashioned noir. Also, Joyce

01:02:02.139 --> 01:02:05.099
is a phenomenal mother. She's concerned about

01:02:05.099 --> 01:02:08.480
Elle. Immediately. She is so desperate to go

01:02:08.480 --> 01:02:10.679
find Will that she won't let Hopper go without

01:02:10.679 --> 01:02:12.820
him at the end of season or episode seven. I

01:02:12.820 --> 01:02:16.360
keep seeing season. My God. It's just she's she's

01:02:16.360 --> 01:02:18.780
so good. And I just love her so much. She's really

01:02:18.780 --> 01:02:24.260
great. A parent that I is not great. That is

01:02:24.260 --> 01:02:27.699
really not not excellent. We haven't seen an

01:02:27.699 --> 01:02:30.380
excellent moment from this man at all, which

01:02:30.380 --> 01:02:34.980
is Mr. Wheeler has this lovely quote. This is

01:02:34.980 --> 01:02:38.809
our government. They're on our side. Insert laugh

01:02:38.809 --> 01:02:42.789
cry emojis until I die. He's so oblivious, it's

01:02:42.789 --> 01:02:46.989
crazy. Oh, God. But I feel like that's such a,

01:02:46.989 --> 01:02:52.949
like, 80s middle class guy thing to think is

01:02:52.949 --> 01:02:57.019
like, hey. we got through a couple of wars. Like

01:02:57.019 --> 01:02:59.880
we're in a good, our government is on our side.

01:02:59.880 --> 01:03:01.920
You know, we haven't had all the scandals come

01:03:01.920 --> 01:03:05.000
out yet. We haven't had. It's interesting to

01:03:05.000 --> 01:03:06.940
hear from a real life perspective. Cause Reagan.

01:03:07.500 --> 01:03:10.000
is president at the time and one of his like

01:03:10.000 --> 01:03:12.679
most famous quotes about government is the eight

01:03:12.679 --> 01:03:14.880
scariest words in the human language are i'm

01:03:14.880 --> 01:03:17.059
from the government and i'm here to help so the

01:03:17.059 --> 01:03:19.559
fact that he he seems like he would be a reaganite

01:03:19.559 --> 01:03:22.980
man right he lives in indiana in the midst of

01:03:22.980 --> 01:03:26.960
uh and is a white suburban man those in general

01:03:26.960 --> 01:03:28.980
those were voters for reagan you would think

01:03:28.980 --> 01:03:30.980
he'd be like oh the government they're here to

01:03:30.980 --> 01:03:33.719
help oh no but no he's like i'm sure they're

01:03:33.719 --> 01:03:37.849
on our side Totally. Everything's fine, honey.

01:03:37.929 --> 01:03:40.389
You let them go through our children's rooms.

01:03:40.449 --> 01:03:44.789
No problem. They can upturn our entire existence.

01:03:44.889 --> 01:03:47.849
Whatever. They didn't even show up for it. It's

01:03:47.849 --> 01:03:53.369
fine. Yeah. It's totally fine. Oh, Lord almighty.

01:03:54.050 --> 01:03:59.090
Okay. We are here at the moment that we've been

01:03:59.090 --> 01:04:06.860
waiting for. I forgot. how extreme it's so extreme

01:04:06.860 --> 01:04:10.599
this scene is so obviously troy's this bully

01:04:10.599 --> 01:04:13.860
he's been bullying the boys throughout because

01:04:13.860 --> 01:04:16.599
they're nerds and he's a jock we think i mean

01:04:16.599 --> 01:04:21.019
his name's troy one could only assume and so

01:04:21.019 --> 01:04:24.219
we can only assume that he's been you know really

01:04:24.219 --> 01:04:28.880
bullying and whatever however i'm sorry a middle

01:04:28.880 --> 01:04:34.550
schooler going to cut a kid's throat Or cut his

01:04:34.550 --> 01:04:38.849
teeth out of his mouth. Is absolutely insane.

01:04:39.710 --> 01:04:43.489
This kid is the kid of all the kids who needs

01:04:43.489 --> 01:04:48.949
all of the therapy. Because that is insane. It's

01:04:48.949 --> 01:04:54.349
insane. The entire scene is just wild. From the

01:04:54.349 --> 01:04:57.969
fact that he grabs Dustin and puts a knife to

01:04:57.969 --> 01:05:02.090
his throat. And then tells Mike to go walk off.

01:05:02.519 --> 01:05:05.760
A cliff? Or he's gonna cut his baby teeth out?

01:05:05.840 --> 01:05:09.900
Like, what the heck? What? This is - That's like,

01:05:09.980 --> 01:05:14.739
it goes from middle school bully to absolutely

01:05:14.739 --> 01:05:20.639
insane asylum worthy speech in five seconds.

01:05:20.659 --> 01:05:23.800
So this is my, from a writing perspective and

01:05:23.800 --> 01:05:26.840
from like a show perspective, my least favorite

01:05:26.840 --> 01:05:32.050
moment of everything. Uh, that includes the desert

01:05:32.050 --> 01:05:35.650
storyline in season four. That includes the Chicago

01:05:35.650 --> 01:05:39.110
storyline in season two, which are massively

01:05:39.110 --> 01:05:41.829
unpopular storylines with a lot of fans. I, I

01:05:41.829 --> 01:05:44.309
just like, I don't understand the reason for

01:05:44.309 --> 01:05:47.530
ratcheting up. Yeah. And the fact that he's like,

01:05:47.570 --> 01:05:52.420
he tells Mike to go kill himself is. Yeah. Literally.

01:05:52.420 --> 01:05:53.800
And you don't have to do that. You could have

01:05:53.800 --> 01:05:56.699
had it where they have a scrap and he gets accidentally

01:05:56.699 --> 01:06:00.239
pushed off. There's no reason to up this bully

01:06:00.239 --> 01:06:04.239
level so dramatically. It feels like sort of

01:06:04.239 --> 01:06:06.199
a rookie writing workshop mistake that you get

01:06:06.199 --> 01:06:09.219
in your initial creative writing class, to me.

01:06:09.320 --> 01:06:13.460
It just feels like somebody just overshot. I

01:06:13.460 --> 01:06:15.039
don't mean to criticize the writers that much.

01:06:15.079 --> 01:06:16.980
I think they do a phenomenal job. The rest of

01:06:16.980 --> 01:06:19.619
the show is absolutely incredible. I just do

01:06:19.619 --> 01:06:23.079
not understand this moment from a writing or

01:06:23.079 --> 01:06:26.360
a show perspective. Troy, squeezing bladder to

01:06:26.360 --> 01:06:27.780
put yourself in front of the school to murder?

01:06:28.260 --> 01:06:30.800
Yeah, exactly. And permanent disfiguration? What?

01:06:31.340 --> 01:06:35.320
Yeah. Being a little bit humiliated all the way

01:06:35.320 --> 01:06:38.260
up to just, I'm going to murder you and your

01:06:38.260 --> 01:06:43.969
friends, essentially, is just... bonkers bonkers

01:06:43.969 --> 01:06:49.530
um we do however get one little moment of redemption

01:06:49.530 --> 01:06:55.030
for all of mike's whining um which is that he

01:06:55.030 --> 01:07:01.070
is literally ride or die for his friends um because

01:07:01.070 --> 01:07:06.530
he is he is going to die i mean it's crazy i

01:07:06.530 --> 01:07:08.170
don't think he realizes that he's going to die

01:07:08.170 --> 01:07:10.199
though because he's he's like no it's fine I

01:07:10.199 --> 01:07:13.579
don't think so either. He's just, yeah, I think

01:07:13.579 --> 01:07:15.059
he just thinks he's going to get really hurt

01:07:15.059 --> 01:07:19.980
or something like that. But there's not a way

01:07:19.980 --> 01:07:22.019
he lives through that. No, I mean, Hopper explains

01:07:22.019 --> 01:07:24.099
it at the beginning. The water becomes like cement,

01:07:24.159 --> 01:07:28.380
as he calls it. Yeah, exactly. And I just, like,

01:07:28.420 --> 01:07:30.320
I don't think, and I think Troy probably also

01:07:30.320 --> 01:07:32.280
doesn't understand that he's going to die, to

01:07:32.280 --> 01:07:34.440
be fair. Probably not. I think everybody just

01:07:34.440 --> 01:07:37.719
has this misconception that water is not a solid

01:07:37.719 --> 01:07:40.059
and that... When you get up to terminal velocity,

01:07:40.300 --> 01:07:44.460
it's going to be okay. Yeah. But, and like, the

01:07:44.460 --> 01:07:46.460
only chance Mike would even have is if he pencil

01:07:46.460 --> 01:07:49.900
dived with a perfect, perfect angle. But he doesn't.

01:07:49.900 --> 01:07:51.980
He goes belly flop, which is, he's going to shatter

01:07:51.980 --> 01:07:56.239
all of his bones. Yeah. But also, I will tell,

01:07:56.360 --> 01:07:58.780
I will say, okay, so sure, Mike is willing to

01:07:58.780 --> 01:08:02.099
make sure that Dustin isn't hurt. That's true.

01:08:02.440 --> 01:08:05.579
He's also stupid, though. And this is my whole

01:08:05.579 --> 01:08:07.920
thing about, oh, he's such a great leader. Is

01:08:07.920 --> 01:08:10.760
he? Like, the smart thing to do is just to be

01:08:10.760 --> 01:08:13.179
like, hey, man, you're going to permanently disfigure

01:08:13.179 --> 01:08:15.280
my friend. We're going to go tell everybody who

01:08:15.280 --> 01:08:17.239
did this and you're going to get arrested. Like,

01:08:17.260 --> 01:08:21.140
there's... Yeah. What? Also, like, they're baby

01:08:21.140 --> 01:08:23.840
teeth. So, like, he doesn't... As Dustin says,

01:08:24.000 --> 01:08:27.159
he doesn't need them. Like, just keep fighting.

01:08:27.359 --> 01:08:30.260
Like, unless he's actually going to kill... He's

01:08:30.260 --> 01:08:34.300
just an idiot. Yeah. But again, it's the whole

01:08:34.300 --> 01:08:36.609
scene. It's just upsetting. But you're right.

01:08:36.649 --> 01:08:38.770
He's literally right or die. He's a very loyal

01:08:38.770 --> 01:08:41.670
friend. He'd make a great, stupid Hufflepuff.

01:08:42.109 --> 01:08:44.630
For now. Before he has a girlfriend. Before he

01:08:44.630 --> 01:08:48.050
has a girlfriend, indeed. Speaking of having

01:08:48.050 --> 01:08:50.829
feelings, you've got your last note here. My

01:08:50.829 --> 01:08:55.329
last note here just cracked me up. From now on,

01:08:55.409 --> 01:08:57.609
we tell each other everything between Mike and

01:08:57.609 --> 01:09:00.050
Nancy, and then they immediately lie to each

01:09:00.050 --> 01:09:03.989
other about their emotions, which is just a classic

01:09:03.989 --> 01:09:07.390
sibling move that really tickled me. Absolutely.

01:09:07.869 --> 01:09:10.510
It's like, we tell each other everything from

01:09:10.510 --> 01:09:12.770
now on. Immediate lies. Are you dating Jonathan?

01:09:12.949 --> 01:09:17.470
What? No. Do you like Eleven? No. Okay. Great.

01:09:17.630 --> 01:09:20.390
Great. We're all on the same page. Excellent.

01:09:20.609 --> 01:09:24.770
Excellent. Lovely, lovely. So funny. You know,

01:09:24.909 --> 01:09:29.210
Sam, what is the most important character moment

01:09:29.210 --> 01:09:32.170
of this set of episodes? The only thing that

01:09:32.170 --> 01:09:34.970
I think is actually the most important moment,

01:09:35.010 --> 01:09:36.649
because there's a lot of moments that are leading

01:09:36.649 --> 01:09:39.649
up to episode eight. So none of them have really

01:09:39.649 --> 01:09:43.350
reached their sort of climax. But I think. Right.

01:09:43.680 --> 01:09:46.279
In this case, it's Nancy gaining her confidence

01:09:46.279 --> 01:09:48.819
and sense of self, where she wields the gun,

01:09:49.020 --> 01:09:52.039
she goes into the forest with Jonathan, she goes

01:09:52.039 --> 01:09:55.119
into the unknown. The unknown. She goes into

01:09:55.119 --> 01:09:57.119
the... Well, it is the unknown, but the upside

01:09:57.119 --> 01:10:00.119
down. Into the unknown! Sorry, no, we're not

01:10:00.119 --> 01:10:01.539
going to get copyrighted on that one. Don't get

01:10:01.539 --> 01:10:06.899
sued, Sierra! Dang it! You had one job! One job!

01:10:09.710 --> 01:10:13.689
Our GoFundMe will be at SierraDon'tGetSuedGoFundMe

01:10:13.689 --> 01:10:18.029
.com. No, I think that it's her moment of diving

01:10:18.029 --> 01:10:21.069
into, like, actually going through the tree hole

01:10:21.069 --> 01:10:23.750
to the upside down. I think that character moment

01:10:23.750 --> 01:10:26.869
is so important for what defines Nancy for the

01:10:26.869 --> 01:10:30.869
rest of the series. Yeah. No, I definitely would

01:10:30.869 --> 01:10:33.829
agree, for sure. Fantastic. And I know that you

01:10:33.829 --> 01:10:35.630
just lost a hand, Sierra, but I'd like you to

01:10:35.630 --> 01:10:38.739
listen, because it's time. For I am your father

01:10:38.739 --> 01:10:43.760
category of most iconic character moment. It

01:10:43.760 --> 01:10:48.039
has to be Eleven flipping the van. That's so

01:10:48.039 --> 01:10:50.439
iconic. I mean, you think of Stranger Things

01:10:50.439 --> 01:10:59.310
and it's just the... The slow -mo. Yeah. Awesome.

01:10:59.369 --> 01:11:01.930
Awesome. Awesome. I mean, it already has all

01:11:01.930 --> 01:11:06.430
of the 80s E .T. vibes. It already has... The

01:11:06.430 --> 01:11:08.550
bad men are coming. Yeah, exactly. They're all

01:11:08.550 --> 01:11:12.970
in vans. And instead of them going up and over

01:11:12.970 --> 01:11:15.449
the canyon, it's her flipping the bus up and

01:11:15.449 --> 01:11:17.850
over. It's beautiful. Exactly. It's phenomenal.

01:11:18.210 --> 01:11:21.710
So good. It's amazing. You and I are the opposite

01:11:21.710 --> 01:11:23.569
of whatever those Muppets are called. Waldorf

01:11:23.569 --> 01:11:26.529
and whatever his name is. We're not heckling.

01:11:26.590 --> 01:11:31.250
We're absolutely... Adorizing it. Yes. I have

01:11:31.250 --> 01:11:33.850
two honorable mentions for this because it is

01:11:33.850 --> 01:11:37.989
100 % the 11 flipping the van. I will say Hopper

01:11:37.989 --> 01:11:40.029
entering Joyce's house with the sign saying don't

01:11:40.029 --> 01:11:41.569
say anything and his finger on his lips is a

01:11:41.569 --> 01:11:45.989
great, is an amazing moment. It's pretty great.

01:11:45.989 --> 01:11:47.949
I don't know that it's iconic, but every time

01:11:47.949 --> 01:11:50.949
I see it, I'd forgotten it every time, which

01:11:50.949 --> 01:11:52.949
is why I don't think it's iconic. But every time

01:11:52.949 --> 01:11:58.159
I'm like, oh yeah, give it to me. Let's go. And

01:11:58.159 --> 01:12:00.300
then Eleven stealing the Eggos and breaking the

01:12:00.300 --> 01:12:02.300
store I think is actually iconic. Her, like,

01:12:02.380 --> 01:12:06.380
piling those Eggos into her arm. But product

01:12:06.380 --> 01:12:09.579
placement will always sort of jot it down a bit.

01:12:09.619 --> 01:12:15.859
Detract. Yeah, for real. Yeah. Everybody, sit

01:12:15.859 --> 01:12:21.680
down. It's time for our I Am Iron Man. Most iconic

01:12:21.680 --> 01:12:25.760
and most important scene. category so i've got

01:12:25.760 --> 01:12:28.939
a couple of different versions mainly just two

01:12:28.939 --> 01:12:31.340
in fact they're just it's literally a couple

01:12:31.340 --> 01:12:35.520
um there's the bus face -off scene which we return

01:12:35.520 --> 01:12:38.100
we return up to this sort of like car graveyard

01:12:38.100 --> 01:12:41.279
up on a hill uh setting a lot it reminds me a

01:12:41.279 --> 01:12:43.420
little bit of dragon age 2 where you're like

01:12:43.420 --> 01:12:46.619
oh the warehouse where my mom got torn apart

01:12:46.619 --> 01:12:48.920
is also the warehouse where this chest is and

01:12:48.920 --> 01:12:50.960
it's also this place where i'm meeting the slave

01:12:50.960 --> 01:12:55.279
traders um and this is one of those places uh

01:12:55.279 --> 01:12:58.640
so they're up in this old school bus they're

01:12:58.640 --> 01:13:01.720
hiding from the bad men with l and lucas and

01:13:01.720 --> 01:13:05.239
mike and crew and they're trying to see if hopper

01:13:05.239 --> 01:13:10.579
is lando where he's betrayed them or if he's

01:13:10.579 --> 01:13:15.579
yeah actually cool uh Three men arrive in suits

01:13:15.579 --> 01:13:18.819
and off screen we hear somebody take them out.

01:13:19.140 --> 01:13:21.359
And then Hopper comes on the bus and says, let's

01:13:21.359 --> 01:13:24.079
go! And, you know, it sort of picks up from there.

01:13:24.140 --> 01:13:26.840
So good. The other one that I have is perhaps

01:13:26.840 --> 01:13:29.300
also the kiddie pool sensory deprivation tank

01:13:29.300 --> 01:13:31.520
in the school gymnasium scene. The school gym

01:13:31.520 --> 01:13:33.920
becomes such another one of those places that

01:13:33.920 --> 01:13:38.649
we keep going back to. the sort of salt in the

01:13:38.649 --> 01:13:40.750
pool deprivation tank becomes almost somewhat

01:13:40.750 --> 01:13:43.630
of a cliche scene now for stranger things. So

01:13:43.630 --> 01:13:46.430
those are my two iconic scenes, but we got to

01:13:46.430 --> 01:13:49.029
pick one. So where, where are you leaning? I

01:13:49.029 --> 01:13:51.949
think I'd lean towards the bus face off more

01:13:51.949 --> 01:13:58.029
just because I think I don't, when I think of

01:13:58.029 --> 01:14:02.890
more like iconic situations and scenes in. Stranger

01:14:02.890 --> 01:14:06.789
Things over the seasons, I do remember the bus

01:14:06.789 --> 01:14:10.109
and the car graveyard a lot more than I ever

01:14:10.109 --> 01:14:13.449
think about them being in the gym. So I think

01:14:13.449 --> 01:14:17.130
that just becomes a little bit more impactful

01:14:17.130 --> 01:14:23.949
when you have them luring the demodogs from that

01:14:23.949 --> 01:14:27.510
same bus, and then they come back to the bus

01:14:27.510 --> 01:14:32.510
again. When they're tracking both up and below

01:14:32.510 --> 01:14:35.310
and things like that. So I feel like just for

01:14:35.310 --> 01:14:39.409
kind of leading through all the different seasons,

01:14:39.470 --> 01:14:45.130
I would argue that that is more important based

01:14:45.130 --> 01:14:53.510
on location. Location, location, location. Plus,

01:14:53.550 --> 01:14:56.770
I think that it's the first time that the kids

01:14:56.770 --> 01:14:59.649
really see Hopper as someone that they can trust

01:14:59.649 --> 01:15:04.430
and connect with and not just like another adult.

01:15:04.710 --> 01:15:06.590
Yeah, that's true. That's absolutely true. Okay,

01:15:06.649 --> 01:15:08.909
we'll go with that one. So now it's time to crack

01:15:08.909 --> 01:15:11.810
open an encyclopedia because it is, as Elijah

01:15:11.810 --> 01:15:15.569
Wood once said, no, how could we have known category

01:15:15.569 --> 01:15:17.989
where we discuss the most important information

01:15:17.989 --> 01:15:21.569
disseminated to the fandom over these last three

01:15:21.569 --> 01:15:26.500
episodes. Which you've got. Yes, Eleven opened

01:15:26.500 --> 01:15:29.500
the gate when trying to make contact with the

01:15:29.500 --> 01:15:32.039
Demogorgon. We've talked about this so much,

01:15:32.079 --> 01:15:37.239
but yes, absolutely. I mean, that's like the

01:15:37.239 --> 01:15:40.939
most vital piece of information that is passed

01:15:40.939 --> 01:15:44.399
along during these episodes is that that is how

01:15:44.399 --> 01:15:48.090
this gate was opened. Yeah. There's still so

01:15:48.090 --> 01:15:49.390
much we don't... We've talked about this. We

01:15:49.390 --> 01:15:51.130
don't understand about it. I know. It's crazy.

01:15:51.890 --> 01:15:55.329
So keep that in mind for season five. Eleven

01:15:55.329 --> 01:16:01.729
opens the gate. She's that powerful. Yes. Time

01:16:01.729 --> 01:16:05.630
to keep your horses safe. It is the I'm gonna

01:16:05.630 --> 01:16:09.029
make him an offer he can't refuse category of

01:16:09.029 --> 01:16:14.720
best lines. I absolutely love, she's our friend

01:16:14.720 --> 01:16:20.640
and she's crazy. I, if this other line didn't

01:16:20.640 --> 01:16:24.359
happen, Sierra, I would be 100 % with you. That

01:16:24.359 --> 01:16:27.640
that is the best line. But it's unacceptable

01:16:27.640 --> 01:16:31.340
when compared to the police station secretary

01:16:31.340 --> 01:16:35.770
who's talking. to nancy about jonathan after

01:16:35.770 --> 01:16:39.510
he beats up steve and she cooks on this line

01:16:39.510 --> 01:16:43.590
when she says you know she's like tell your boyfriend

01:16:43.590 --> 01:16:45.890
and nancy's like what he's he's not my boyfriend

01:16:45.890 --> 01:16:49.050
what would make you say that and she goes yeah

01:16:49.050 --> 01:16:52.350
she's she's putting ice into like some sort of

01:16:52.350 --> 01:16:55.069
handkerchief or towel or something uh because

01:16:55.069 --> 01:16:56.590
it's the 80s and they haven't made ice packs

01:16:56.590 --> 01:17:01.340
apparently uh and she she goes Only loves make

01:17:01.340 --> 01:17:03.939
you that crazy sweetheart and then hands her

01:17:03.939 --> 01:17:11.699
the ice pack and that damn stupid. It's amazing.

01:17:12.960 --> 01:17:15.460
And that's absolutely the best line in which

01:17:15.460 --> 01:17:18.659
you cannot. Fair enough. Thank you. Also, I will

01:17:18.659 --> 01:17:20.600
point out that right after that, Nancy immediately

01:17:20.600 --> 01:17:23.319
takes all the credit for the ice because she

01:17:23.319 --> 01:17:25.880
hands the ice to Jonathan and she goes, found

01:17:25.880 --> 01:17:30.720
some ice. No, you didn't. You were handed it

01:17:30.720 --> 01:17:32.979
while being given a life lesson by a random woman.

01:17:37.680 --> 01:17:42.939
Oh, gosh. Dust off that old card deck. Get ready

01:17:42.939 --> 01:17:45.899
to shuffle. It's our Joker category. For who

01:17:45.899 --> 01:17:48.600
is the MVP of this episode, I have three choices

01:17:48.600 --> 01:17:51.659
for you, Sierra. Okay. All right, I'm ready.

01:17:51.720 --> 01:17:54.859
Nancy Jonathan, who do the whole figuring out

01:17:54.859 --> 01:17:57.970
to go into a tree hole. Yeah. Get the Demogorgon,

01:17:57.970 --> 01:17:59.970
understand that it's attracted to blood, all

01:17:59.970 --> 01:18:03.409
that sort of stuff. You've got Dustin, who's

01:18:03.409 --> 01:18:05.609
the one who does all the math figures for the

01:18:05.609 --> 01:18:09.170
sensory deprivation tank, which confirms Barb's

01:18:09.170 --> 01:18:15.670
death and Will's being alive. Or, and I think

01:18:15.670 --> 01:18:18.430
I would go with this guy. Just pound for pound

01:18:18.430 --> 01:18:22.409
impact, which is just my favorite way to think

01:18:22.409 --> 01:18:29.340
about MVPs, is Mr. Clark. Because he, in this,

01:18:29.380 --> 01:18:33.939
explains the entire premise of punching through

01:18:33.939 --> 01:18:36.800
to different dimensions and giving them the clues

01:18:36.800 --> 01:18:39.659
of gravitational pull and electromagnetic pulses

01:18:39.659 --> 01:18:42.020
and all that stuff. He's not on the screen for

01:18:42.020 --> 01:18:45.579
very long, but he's absolutely vital to them

01:18:45.579 --> 01:18:48.659
actually being able to go and do anything. So

01:18:48.659 --> 01:18:51.020
he's not necessarily the basket maker, but he's

01:18:51.020 --> 01:18:58.460
the playmaker. Yeah. Hmm. Hmm. Hmm. Wow. Those

01:18:58.460 --> 01:19:03.720
are three very good options. You know, we may

01:19:03.720 --> 01:19:07.300
have to go with Mr. Clark for this one. Because

01:19:07.300 --> 01:19:12.680
without him, it's not understood how any of this

01:19:12.680 --> 01:19:16.159
works or how you would get there or how anything

01:19:16.159 --> 01:19:19.859
would get through or how you would connect to

01:19:19.859 --> 01:19:22.460
it. He's also the one that tells them how to

01:19:22.460 --> 01:19:24.300
make... It's with the flea on the tightrope.

01:19:24.319 --> 01:19:27.060
And he tells them how to make the stupid deprivation

01:19:27.060 --> 01:19:31.000
tank thing. True. Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.

01:19:31.180 --> 01:19:33.260
Yeah. Gotta be Mr. Clark. It's gotta be Mr. Clark.

01:19:33.279 --> 01:19:37.699
Okay, Mr. Clark, MVP, which is crazy. Wild. It's

01:19:37.699 --> 01:19:41.340
wild that he gets an MVP vote and award. But

01:19:41.340 --> 01:19:45.760
he does. Yes, indeed. Well, Sam, it's time to

01:19:45.760 --> 01:19:48.340
clean up your evil lair and get ready for our...

01:19:49.159 --> 01:19:53.760
was the turkey all along? Category four. What

01:19:53.760 --> 01:19:56.939
is the biggest takeaway viewers should leave

01:19:56.939 --> 01:20:01.680
with in preparation for season five? You guessed

01:20:01.680 --> 01:20:04.979
it. There is still more going on than we can

01:20:04.979 --> 01:20:08.060
fully understand. Eleven opened the gate to the

01:20:08.060 --> 01:20:11.399
Upside Down. The lab already knew the Upside

01:20:11.399 --> 01:20:14.060
Down was there because they're trying to make

01:20:14.060 --> 01:20:18.539
contact. So... How do they know about the Upside

01:20:18.539 --> 01:20:22.640
Down? Eleven, is she grown specifically for the

01:20:22.640 --> 01:20:25.060
purpose of reaching through to the Upside Down,

01:20:25.180 --> 01:20:28.500
or were there other purposes for her? There's

01:20:28.500 --> 01:20:32.000
so much going on in kind of her still, like,

01:20:32.000 --> 01:20:34.319
we get a lot more information about her backstory,

01:20:34.399 --> 01:20:37.460
but we still don't fully understand kind of what

01:20:37.460 --> 01:20:43.239
happened to jumpstart this specific them. Making

01:20:43.239 --> 01:20:45.720
contact with the upside down and how that involves.

01:20:45.779 --> 01:20:51.260
Yeah, I it's really, you know, it's great fodder

01:20:51.260 --> 01:20:53.539
for podcasting. It is a little frustrating, though.

01:20:54.020 --> 01:20:56.539
And we get a little bit of this answer in season

01:20:56.539 --> 01:21:00.100
four. We know that they there are being trained

01:21:00.100 --> 01:21:05.680
to do psycho stuff because of. because Brenner's

01:21:05.680 --> 01:21:07.520
interested in that. We know from the play, what

01:21:07.520 --> 01:21:08.920
I said earlier, I don't want to spoil it again

01:21:08.920 --> 01:21:11.420
in case people skipped over that, that Brenner

01:21:11.420 --> 01:21:13.579
has some real reasons why he's invested in the

01:21:13.579 --> 01:21:15.600
Upside Down, that he kind of knows where it is

01:21:15.600 --> 01:21:18.920
-ish. And, you know, we've got all the Vecna

01:21:18.920 --> 01:21:21.880
information, so Eleven is grown to sort of do

01:21:21.880 --> 01:21:25.939
what Vecna was doing before Vecna was uncontrollable,

01:21:26.060 --> 01:21:29.239
before they put in Vecna's little, hey, stop,

01:21:29.359 --> 01:21:33.170
stop doing this technology. But there's just

01:21:33.170 --> 01:21:35.770
a lot more that I feel like needs to be disseminated.

01:21:36.529 --> 01:21:39.630
Exactly how did the gate get opened? Is it the

01:21:39.630 --> 01:21:43.409
fear? Is it the scream? Is it Eleven losing control?

01:21:43.710 --> 01:21:45.829
Is it just her punching through when she touched

01:21:45.829 --> 01:21:47.869
the Demogorgon? That sort of stuff. I think that's

01:21:47.869 --> 01:21:49.770
absolutely true. There's also some information

01:21:49.770 --> 01:21:55.130
given about her powers, specifically. So Mike

01:21:55.130 --> 01:21:57.649
and Dustin have this explanation as to what's

01:21:57.649 --> 01:21:59.829
going on with Eleven to Joyce and the adults

01:21:59.829 --> 01:22:03.039
and stuff. Mike says, Whenever she uses her powers,

01:22:03.079 --> 01:22:05.659
she gets weak. Dustin adds, the more energy she

01:22:05.659 --> 01:22:08.279
uses, the more tired she gets. Mike, but she's

01:22:08.279 --> 01:22:11.060
drained. Dustin, like a battery. Joyce, how do

01:22:11.060 --> 01:22:13.220
we make her better? So that's when we're introduced

01:22:13.220 --> 01:22:15.000
to the sensory deprivation tanks and how Eleven

01:22:15.000 --> 01:22:20.560
needs to be on one in order to tap into her sixth

01:22:20.560 --> 01:22:23.760
senses, kind of, you know, to be better at doing

01:22:23.760 --> 01:22:25.720
it. As you said, she does it with white noise

01:22:25.720 --> 01:22:28.699
later, but the sensory deprivation certainly

01:22:28.699 --> 01:22:31.949
helps the most. Doing that. But it is frustrating

01:22:31.949 --> 01:22:33.909
because we don't really know for what reason

01:22:33.909 --> 01:22:38.029
her senses need calming down. We don't know why.

01:22:38.569 --> 01:22:41.729
Like, oh, I can now smell better because all

01:22:41.729 --> 01:22:43.689
my other senses are turned off. Although people

01:22:43.689 --> 01:22:46.289
say that's true. Is that just it? Is it that

01:22:46.289 --> 01:22:47.930
simple or is it something else? You know, that

01:22:47.930 --> 01:22:50.670
sort of stuff. I mean, if you've ever been driving

01:22:50.670 --> 01:22:52.649
down a road and you need to pay attention to

01:22:52.649 --> 01:22:54.310
what you're seeing, you turn the radio down.

01:22:54.369 --> 01:23:00.609
That's true. Fair point. I concede defeat. But

01:23:00.609 --> 01:23:03.350
it is the strange space that Stranger Things

01:23:03.350 --> 01:23:07.069
sometimes lives in. It's a mixture of soft fantasy

01:23:07.069 --> 01:23:10.409
and hard fantasy. And with all the science fiction.

01:23:10.840 --> 01:23:13.220
the hard science fiction that they put in. This

01:23:13.220 --> 01:23:15.340
is how this happens. It is frustrating sometimes

01:23:15.340 --> 01:23:17.760
to get the soft fantasy when you're like, but

01:23:17.760 --> 01:23:19.520
you're so good at the science fiction aspects.

01:23:19.739 --> 01:23:25.920
Why is this so soft for the fantasy? Yeah. Also

01:23:25.920 --> 01:23:30.380
another thing that we really learn and get some

01:23:30.380 --> 01:23:32.579
information about is just that the upside down

01:23:32.579 --> 01:23:37.000
has the same layout as real life and that people

01:23:37.000 --> 01:23:40.100
can be. kind of tracked through it and somewhat

01:23:40.100 --> 01:23:43.699
heard through, like, the veil, essentially, between

01:23:43.699 --> 01:23:48.720
real life and the upside down. That definitely

01:23:48.720 --> 01:23:52.260
comes into play in later seasons. You know, go

01:23:52.260 --> 01:23:57.340
to the XYZ location, up or down, and, you know,

01:23:57.359 --> 01:24:00.399
be able to interact through that and everything.

01:24:00.579 --> 01:24:03.279
So I think that that is a very important thing

01:24:03.279 --> 01:24:06.500
that we find out in these episodes, is just that

01:24:06.500 --> 01:24:11.180
it's a mirrored... situation um and also being

01:24:11.180 --> 01:24:16.000
able to hear through it uh more than through

01:24:16.000 --> 01:24:19.979
lights or radio static or whatever the case may

01:24:19.979 --> 01:24:21.819
be and actually be able to communicate through

01:24:21.819 --> 01:24:25.739
super key yeah and and what like we've been saying

01:24:25.739 --> 01:24:28.239
mr cork explains that we have this huge amount

01:24:28.239 --> 01:24:30.819
of energy to create a hole through the barrier

01:24:30.819 --> 01:24:34.069
to get to the upside down um That it would mess

01:24:34.069 --> 01:24:37.029
with gravity, magnetic fields, etc. I do find

01:24:37.029 --> 01:24:39.869
it fascinating that the Upside Down is exactly

01:24:39.869 --> 01:24:44.170
the same layout, but as if it's... It bears all

01:24:44.170 --> 01:24:46.550
these questions on like, okay, so is what happens

01:24:46.550 --> 01:24:49.329
in Hawkins, does that set what's going on? As

01:24:49.329 --> 01:24:51.069
soon as a house gets built in the Upside Down,

01:24:51.130 --> 01:24:53.489
what's going on with that? Or is it just like,

01:24:53.550 --> 01:24:56.890
did Vecna just recreate his old town? Because

01:24:56.890 --> 01:24:59.229
when he gets there, what's happening with that?

01:24:59.310 --> 01:25:01.729
So there's a lot of questions to be had. for

01:25:01.729 --> 01:25:03.590
that as well, that I think that they'll answer

01:25:03.590 --> 01:25:05.890
in Season 5, because we started to get some sort

01:25:05.890 --> 01:25:09.409
of flash answers at the end of Season 4. Right.

01:25:10.289 --> 01:25:12.569
Hopefully. Interestingly enough, the Veil of

01:25:12.569 --> 01:25:15.329
Shadows in a D &D context is made up for the

01:25:15.329 --> 01:25:18.850
show. Really? Yeah, so I did some sleuthing on

01:25:18.850 --> 01:25:21.550
the internet. Veil of Shadows is not a Dungeons

01:25:21.550 --> 01:25:23.789
& Dragons concept. However, it is clearly a reference

01:25:23.789 --> 01:25:25.810
to both Shadow Veil and the Plane of Shadows.

01:25:26.029 --> 01:25:30.319
But it is... Okay, okay. I think I was thinking

01:25:30.319 --> 01:25:32.100
of the plane of shadows. It is alluding to D

01:25:32.100 --> 01:25:35.560
&D. Like, actual, like, not D &D being used as

01:25:35.560 --> 01:25:37.460
a mechanic to play, but like the actual Dungeons

01:25:37.460 --> 01:25:40.359
& Dragons world. Right. Yeah, exactly. So that

01:25:40.359 --> 01:25:42.840
I thought was fascinating. That is really interesting.

01:25:43.340 --> 01:25:47.340
I guess it's just kind of like such a common,

01:25:47.520 --> 01:25:51.760
I don't know about common, but it's a concept

01:25:51.760 --> 01:25:55.460
that you see in a number of different fantasy

01:25:55.460 --> 01:25:59.779
settings. And so I guess it just extrapolates

01:25:59.779 --> 01:26:02.460
out that it would make a lot of sense for that

01:26:02.460 --> 01:26:04.840
to exist. But yeah, that does kind of surprise

01:26:04.840 --> 01:26:08.420
me that it specifically is not in there. Especially

01:26:08.420 --> 01:26:10.319
when you know that Vecna is like an actual D

01:26:10.319 --> 01:26:14.560
&D character. I hadn't realized that it was made

01:26:14.560 --> 01:26:16.060
up for the show specifically. That was cool.

01:26:16.180 --> 01:26:18.560
I thought that was neat. Yeah, no. That is cool.

01:26:19.779 --> 01:26:22.800
Today's public service announcement. Are you

01:26:22.800 --> 01:26:25.579
a switchblade wielding serial killer middle school

01:26:25.579 --> 01:26:29.319
bully? Same! That's why I went to Dr. Brenner's

01:26:29.319 --> 01:26:32.079
home for the criminally insane. He zaps the bully

01:26:32.079 --> 01:26:38.979
right out of you. Well, thank you, listener schmissiners,

01:26:38.979 --> 01:26:41.779
for listening to this episode of Fandom Schmandom.

01:26:42.039 --> 01:26:44.979
If you'd like to discuss this episode or any

01:26:44.979 --> 01:26:47.359
other episode we've done, please hit us up on

01:26:47.359 --> 01:26:49.760
our social media channels. You can find us on

01:26:49.760 --> 01:26:52.579
TikTok and Instagram at fandomshmandumpod and

01:26:52.579 --> 01:26:56.960
on X at fandom underscore shmandum. Please don't

01:26:56.960 --> 01:26:58.539
forget to rate and review us if you like the

01:26:58.539 --> 01:27:00.539
episode. It really helps with the algorithm placing

01:27:00.539 --> 01:27:04.880
us in the algorithms of other like -minded shmissioners

01:27:04.880 --> 01:27:07.439
out there. And with that, we're out, y 'all.

01:27:07.619 --> 01:27:10.439
Don't forget to tip your demogorgons. And fare

01:27:10.439 --> 01:27:15.579
thee well! Fandom Schmandom was created by Sam

01:27:15.579 --> 01:27:18.060
Williams and Ciara Obermark. The show is produced

01:27:18.060 --> 01:27:20.880
by Aurelia Lieb. The editor is Brittany Fisher.

01:27:21.119 --> 01:27:43.020
The music is by Jeremiah Alves. So I just got

01:27:43.020 --> 01:27:45.739
like stuck in my throat for a second. Great start.

01:27:45.840 --> 01:27:51.600
Great start. Welcome to Sierra dying. Yes. Okay.

01:28:00.220 --> 01:28:02.560
I'm sure Brittany at this point is like, what

01:28:02.560 --> 01:28:08.439
the hell is this going on? You guys have been

01:28:08.439 --> 01:28:10.399
recording for 10 minutes and you haven't said

01:28:10.399 --> 01:28:14.699
a single damn thing. Also, like, why do I have

01:28:14.699 --> 01:28:18.420
to cut out all of this? Everything is coming

01:28:18.420 --> 01:28:20.899
together, which might be good news for Jonathan,

01:28:21.060 --> 01:28:23.319
Nancy, Hopper, and Joyce, but it's not for Dr.

01:28:23.380 --> 01:28:27.579
Brenner, Mike, Luke, Luke, Luke, Luke DeSoleil.

01:28:29.739 --> 01:28:34.279
We get Elle's powers more fully explored, explored

01:28:34.279 --> 01:28:37.779
it. Oh my God. Sorry, cut that section. Britney,

01:28:37.920 --> 01:28:43.460
I have 17 ,000 million apologies for you. I'm

01:28:43.460 --> 01:28:45.319
very sorry. This is such a difficult episode

01:28:45.319 --> 01:28:49.060
for you. If you don't skip through all the time

01:28:49.060 --> 01:28:51.079
that we've told you to skip through and you end

01:28:51.079 --> 01:28:53.119
up listening to all of our million apologies

01:28:53.119 --> 01:28:56.680
in silence, then here's million and one apologies

01:28:56.680 --> 01:29:02.260
for the chaos that is this episode. Hey, we did

01:29:02.260 --> 01:29:04.920
it. Brittany, we did it. Brittany, we did it.

01:29:07.399 --> 01:29:08.640
Brittany, I'm sorry.