Welcome to Fandom Shmandom, the fandom podcast
that covers everything you love and more. I'm
Sierra Obermark. And I'm Sam Williams. Today's
episode will be beneficially bellowing about
Stranger Things Season 1, Episode 5 through 7.
Without further ado, we will, as Roger Smith
says, dive on in. Get up to 88 because it's time
to travel back for our story recap. Episode 5
of Season 1, Hopper. is a non -stopper. Moving
past my terrible rhyme, Jim Hopper is an unstoppable
man infiltrating Hawkins' lab. Joyce's ex -hubby
Lonnie has come back to Hawkins and he sucks.
And Mike has... And Mike has figured out where
Will is. The Upside Down. Cue... Terrible scream
from a movie like Scream. Hopper gets caught
at the lab and wakes up to find his place is
bugged. At Bugged HQ, Dr. Brenner realizes that
Elle is with the kids trying to find Will. Jonathan
and Nancy decide to team up to find the Demogorgon.
The children find out where the gate might be
and Nancy proves to be a very good shot. Flashbacks
about Elle in the submersive chamber give us
more clues about what's going on, but then Elle
uses her power on Lucas and knocks him out. Cut
to Jonathan and Nancy. They found a dying deer
and a monster. But it's okay, because Nancy just
manages to trap herself in the Upside Down by
herself with the monster. Nailed it. Episode
6. It's okay, because in episode six, Nancy immediately
finds her way out. Cue love music. The gate seals
itself in the tree, and we're back to roll intro.
Steve Harrington is being cuckolded by Jonathan
Jeffries Byers. Wait. No, he's not. Hopper realizes
that he may be chasing after a lost girl named
Jane, a .k .a. Eleven, and not Will. In a typical
horrors shower scene, we get a taste that our
characters might actually have PTSD as Nancy
relives her experience and asks Jonathan to sleep,
and we literally mean just sleep, with her for
the night. Mr. Clark is in danger. The same woman
that killed Bunny, the burger man in episode,
wait, Benny. I definitely heard Bunny on the
show. I was like, that's that guy's name? That's
crazy. The same woman that killed Benny, the
burger man in episode one, is trying to track
down which kids use the AV radio to contact Will
with Eleven. Eleven steals some product placement,
and Hopper and Joyce go to speak with her mother,
who is completely incoherent. Lucas goes on his
own to find the gate. Mike and Dustin try to
track down Eleven. We find out that Eleven's
mom was part of the MKUltra program and was pregnant
with Eleven when she was on CIA drugs and also
has powers? Steve writes mean things about Nancy
on a marquee. Jonathan beats up Steve. Lucas
figures out the gate is in Hawkins' lab and Dustin
is nearly killed? In a wild scene, a middle school
bully demands Mike jumps off a cliff and kills
himself, or he'll cut out Dustin's baby teeth.
Eleven stops that nonsense, and we find out she
may have opened the gate. What a wild episode.
Episode 7! Insane episode. Episode 6 is insane.
Episode 7, everything is coming together. Which
might be good news for Jonathan, Nancy, Hopper,
and Joyce, but it's not for Dr. Brenner, Mike,
Lucas, Dustin, and Eleven. Dr. Brenner knows
where Eleven is, and the boys have to hide her.
Meanwhile, Steve is reflecting on his life and
whether or not he wants to sell Obi -Wan death
sticks, while Hopper leads the older teens and
adults. And they all meet together. Well, not
Steve. Hopper and Eleven meet for the first time
and they all swap info so everyone's on the same
page. They get Eleven a sensory deprivation tank
in the school gymnasium and she confirms Barb's
murder. And they find Will is still alive. Keep
the Williams. Which is also great. But now they
have to go get him. So that's cool. Joyce and
Hopper hop to it, and they're stopped by police
of some sort, and Will is left in the Upside
Down as the monster bears down on him. But before
we get to the nitty -gritty schmitty, we welcome
history teacher extraordinaire Elizabeth Wade
Stickle to provide us with vital information
that we need to know. Welcome, Liz. Give us that
integral real -life history parallels. about
what MKUltra actually was in real life. Hey fandom
shmandum, this is Liz, your friendly local historian.
I'm here for Expert Corner. Charles Manson, Britney
Spears, Stranger Things. What do they all have
in common? An alleged connection to the mid -20th
century top secret CIA project, MKUltra. Project
MKUltra. was preceded by the US government's
somewhat infamous Operation Paperclip. Post -World
War II, the US recruited Nazi scientists to get
our space program off the ground and to learn
about their unethical research on human subjects
in the Nazi regime. Some had been prosecuted
at Nuremberg already. Several clandestine projects
grew out of Operation Paperclip. Many of them
focused on studying mind control, torture, and
brainwashing. The program was treading water
for a while, but after the Korean War, the US
redoubled their efforts and prioritized cracking
the code for brainwashing. The US government
was spooked by prisoners of war returning from
Korea, suddenly sympathetic to communist ideologies.
Surely they were being mind -controlled. The
CIA poured $10 million into attempting to master
brainwashing and mind control. In 1964, the project
became more specific. trying to develop a truth
serum that could be used on captured Soviet agents.
MKUltra largely experimented on unsuspecting
and non -consenting adults, both in and out of
the intelligence community. They used LSD, buying
almost all of the supply of this synthetic psychedelic
in the country, amphetamines, opiates, and other
psychedelics, among other substances they experimented
with. They also utilized hypnosis techniques
and sleight -of -hand magic that ended up in
one of their manuals. They also outsourced experimentation
to Canadian hospitals. The program took place
under CIA Director Dulles and the direct supervision
of so -called Poisoner -in -Chief Sidney Gottlieb.
While MKUltra has been proven to exist, Stranger
Things also drew inspiration from conspiracy
theories around the Montauk Project. Stranger
Things' working title when it was pitched to
Netflix was actually Montauk, but we'll get to
that another time. Some of the clear connections
between Project MKUltra, their goals around brainwashing,
mind control, and Stranger Things are, I think,
clearest in seasons two and three with the mind
flayer. While they use a D &D, not trope, a D
&D creature, as the vessel for this mind control,
this subconscious idea planting. It very much
is rooted in this very real instance of the US
government experimenting on our own civilians.
Even in the series itself, they allude to the
idea that Eleven's mom may actually have been
a victim of MKUltra, thus passing some of their
successful experiments outcomes to Eleven. We
also see connections in the secrecy of the government
base in Hawkins. Project MKUltra was so top secret
that people inside the CIA didn't know it was
happening. It was on a strictly need -to -know
basis, and most of the time, even subjects of
experimentation were not considered need -to
-know. We definitely see this in Eleven's relationship
to other victims of the program, as well as the
program director in the show. Even though he...
puts himself in this paternal position that Sidney
Gottlieb probably wouldn't have been in, we do
still see that idea of the experiment itself
being what's precious, being what's guarded,
and the human subjects being pretty squarely
collateral damage and data points at the end
of the day. In real life, Once Canadian victims
realized they had been part of the program, they
actually did sue the United States and the U
.S. did settle outside of court. American victims,
however, were not so fortunate. Once documents
became declassified as a result of this Canadian
lawsuit, Justice Sandra Day O 'Connor reiterated
for the american public that the nuremberg trials
had made very clear to the global community that
getting consent in human experimentation was
not only critical but essential and required
um and so in the in the wake uh of mk ultra itself
um We actually lost a lot of documentation as
a result of some directed destruction of materials,
but what we do have pretty clearly paints the
picture of a large -scale human experiment that
should not have been allowed to happen. And as
we reach the end of Stranger Things, we're starting
to see much the same, especially with the rise
of Vecna, the tangible consequences of human
experimentation, even in this supernatural setting.
Oh, this has been Expert Corner. I'm Liz. See
you next time. Thank you so much, Liz, for coming
in and doing Expert Corner for us. What a fascinating
run through of MKUltra, the CIA project. What
was it? Pinhead? No. Paperclip. Project Paperclip.
Before we dive into the whole thing, I feel as
though we must discuss the elephant in the room.
And I don't want to make too much light of the
situation of like real people being unethically
experimented on and everything. But sleight of
hand magic. That was wild. As soon as I heard
that little tidbit, my mouth just dropped and
I kind of threw my hands in the air and just
went, what? Listen, we know you've been on a
ton of LSD because we keep injecting it into
you without your permission. But would you please
pick a card? Any card. Any card. what do they
have steve martin as a kid in there just i'm
so confusing i i guess i mean i guess just playing
with your mind and maybe seeing if you can the
only thing i can i need to know more about this
liz i just i have to say but I'm just imagining
them saying, okay, a normal person can't catch
these details as a sleight of hand magician is
performing. But maybe if we pump you full of
all of this cocktail of shenanigans, you'll be
able to pick out the exact moment that the card
goes behind their... What are they hoping to
achieve from that one? I think that's... hilarious
so stupid um okay so such a wild yeah oh my god
um okay so moving back to moving back into a
more serious analysis first of all the the horrors
of mk ultra are quite bad i do always appreciate
when people are able to take really horrific
things and craft an interesting story about the
dangers of those continuing Because all of this
horrific experimentation being done to Eleven's
mother, which we then see, as Liz was saying,
she is on LSD when pregnant. Right. Eleven's
mother. And that sort of seems to amp up Eleven's
telekinesis, or something to that effect, is
what Stranger Things is going with. And then
all the dangers that occur from then on are really
at the behest of Dr. Brenner and his terribles.
Now, there's some stuff with Vecna, right? It's
not like we don't know if Vecna's parents were
experimented on or any of that sort of stuff.
But really fascinating. And of course, I really
liked Liz pointing out that the mind flayer is
essentially an allegory for attempted mind control
implanting. What did you think? Yes, I really
thought it was interesting that even though we're...
as Liz pointed out, using a D &D creature, essentially,
as the example, it's a very nice parallel to
the realities and what they're really pulling
from because it almost personifies the horror
instead of it being something that's very mental.
And very individual to the person experiencing
it. And something that you can't really explain.
This is a way that we are able to put a face,
essentially, or a being behind the horrible thing
that has occurred. And so I think that that's
a very interesting insight and way that the Duffer
Brothers have... put together a horrifying creature
which if you know dnd and or what a mind flayer
itself looks like as we see in the show with
the pictures that they that the kids are looking
at books um we get this mental image of something
truly terrifying that is messing with your mind
And then we also have the comparison to real
people messing with people's minds. And it almost
gives it a lighter quality because it's not a
human doing it to another human. But at the same
time, it almost makes it more horrifying because
you have another unknown evil. Right. That is
compounded upon what is happening. So very, very
interesting dynamic there. Yeah, I mean, it's
really cool. I was just talking to, at my other
job, about allegory, as one does as an English
teacher, and pointing out, you know, Dune, the
Timothee Chalamet movie, slash the Frank Herbert.
novel is an allegory about the way that the U
.S. treats, treated the Middle East in terms
of gathering oil in the 1960s, which of course
then repeats in the 2000s and is still going
on today. George Lucas's Star Wars, he's on record
as saying is an allegory for overreach by really
powerful nations. So for his example in the 70s,
it was him talking about the Vietnam War with
the United States. He felt like there was overreach.
uh to the vietnamese people that sort of stuff
and how that that creates rebellion naturally
and it's really interesting to see that this
is this whole show is an allegory for governmental
overreach and how that begets problems throughout
that you cannot control and so you may be trying
to control something but that control is an illusion
because it just will will disappear away from
you instantly really neat stuff it really also
makes me want to just dive into the history of
all of this and go research Everything that the
Doppelbrothers have been researching. Yeah, exactly.
You know, it was touched upon in my history classes
in high school, but I don't, I think I'm trying
to remember maybe just US history and junior
year of high school or whenever that was. But
you don't really dive too deeply into that with
teenagers. So it is definitely a... a fraught
time in our, our country's history. And it would
definitely be interesting though, to learn a
lot more. Liz, can you please teach me a class,
a one -on -one class on this topic? I would love
it. Thank you very much. Yeah. Thanks Liz. We
really appreciate this. Find your donut holes.
It's time for our Knives Out category, where
we sooth out which three storylines are the most
vital to pay attention to. Number one, The Kids
and Elle. What can she do and what can't she
do? Number two, Nancy and Jonathan. Focus on
the Demogorgon and how to attract and potentially
kill it. Number three, Hop and Joyce. The agreements
with the lab and government, these don't happen
yet. Yeah, I added that because they don't actually
have any agreements with the government yet.
Okay. So, it's just Hop and Joyce. Okay. Number
three, Hop and Joyce. Okay, so this first storyline
is the kids and Elle. What can she do? What can't
she do? What are her powers? And this is, this,
over these three episodes, this storyline contextualizes
a lot of the fantasy elements. So we get, like,
what is the Upside Down? They talk about the
Veil of Shadows. And we get an understanding
in the name of what the Upside Down is going
to be called for the rest of Stranger Things
history. Which is really cool. We discover what
a gate is. How another dimension is created.
We get that with Mr. Clark. We get how it disrupts
fields of gravity and creates electronic magnetic
differentiating things that mess with magnets
and compasses and stuff. We get Elle's powers
being more explored and sort of a better understanding
of what she can and can't do. So we see her in...
Like, the purgatory space, we see her moving
things with her mind. We see her breaking kids'
arms. We can also see that she can levitate Mike
from, like, hundreds of feet. Yeah. And whip
him right back up when he jumps into the quarry.
Super crazy. Which is, like, it feels like that's
one of the hardest things she does all season.
I think, yeah, honestly. Like, one could argue
that, like, some of the other things that she
does that are pretty crazy still has, like, momentum
going for her, at least. Yeah. But this is absolutely
the opposite. Right. She holds momentum. Yeah,
very, very crazy. And then lifts him back up
and over into... Carefully. Carefully. into safety
but like and we'll get we'll talk more about
like the wildness of that scene but in terms
of her powers it's it's got to be one of the
most difficult things and then she just goes
and like breaks the troy's arm the bully's arm
with a snap of her neck and then also earlier
she like isolates her powers to squeeze his bladder
so that he we know that it takes effort like
it's not completely soft fantasy here we we get
words later about her powers from dustin and
mike and we know that she's like she needs to
fuel up we know that it takes effort that she
bleeds when it happens but like it's not like
she gushes blood during some of this stuff versus
when she takes out the demogorgon like you see
all of her blood vessels sort of working and
stuff like that so i'm interested here as to
why she's not like just full -on running a huge
bloody nose when she lifts mike up yeah no idea
okay good i'm glad you're on the same page no
yeah it seems like there should be a little bit
more exertion on her part um And, you know, sometimes
when she's using her powers, you know, she kind
of, like, has to rest. She just falls down, something
like that. But it definitely seems like, in comparison
specifically to a lot of the other things we've
seen so far, she should have more of a draining
effect on herself specifically for this. Well,
and I felt that way, too, about the smashing
of all the glass that she does in the Eggo. Yeah.
When she, you know, cause she has that awesome
moment of like, she goes and gets Eggos and like
everybody started eating Eggos all of a sudden
again, uh, in real world. Um, and then she leaves
and she smashes the front glass of like everything
in the shop. And it was like, that seems like
a little bit more than shoving Lucas. Right.
So that's fascinating. But the real question
here I think is around the creation of the rift
because Is this Els doing? Is this Vectors doing?
Is it just happens to be what occurs? Because
she goes, and so she's in this, like, weird purgatory
space, which is, like, filled with water. Questions.
Why is it filled with water? I don't understand
that. I could kind of see it, you know, if she's,
like, in the tank, and then, you know, she, it's
kind of like a... The water acts as like a barrier
between the worlds or something like that. And
she's in the water and in the sensory deprivation.
But then later when she's not using the sensory
deprivation tank and she's just using like white
noise and things, there's still water. Yeah.
So maybe because it's a good conductor? Is it?
I mean, of electricity, isn't it? No, it's a
great conductor of electricity. So, like, I don't
know. I'm just thinking, like, that's the only
thing I can think of is somehow it's tied into
the, like, electromagnetism idea that we get
in a couple seasons. I don't know. This is always
the frustrating part about the visual medium
when it comes to fantasy and science fiction,
is that there's these, from a creative standpoint,
like, This is a neat visual effect with the water
drips as well auditorily and everything sort
of happening within water. It's a great visual
thing. But unlike with writing, with writing,
you have to figure out, okay, what are all the
purposes of this? Or am I doing soft, right?
And so you don't have these sort of visual limitations
of like, okay, but if I do this. What's the point
of it? It looks great, which is awesome. I mean,
in writing, you have a lot of other problems,
too. I'm not just trying to say that, like, fantasy
is only good for novels. It's great in everything.
But this is a specific visual problem where,
you know, you get these awesome, oh, this looks
so cool. But why? And, like, I still don't quite
understand after watching the show many times.
Why is it filled with water? I thought for a
while it was just, oh, she's in the sensory deprivation
tank. That's why. But then as you pointed out,
when she's using white noise, it's not like it's
just like TV static all around her. Right. Which
could be interesting. But yeah, it makes it seem
like it's something else. Yeah. You know, it's
not just based on her surroundings in the real
world. And so are we, is it just like a visual
representation of what's going on in her mind?
Because I would accept that just fine. That this
liminal purgatory space is just like her in her
mind palace, essentially. But it does feel like
it's a physical place. And we know this because
she goes and touches the Demogorgon with her
two fingers. She puts it in his back and that's
when he turns around, she screams, and then the
rift is open. And it's interesting here because
the rift doesn't open in the deprivation tank.
It opens outside of it. It doesn't open where
she is. And it doesn't open where the Demogorgon
is either. It's not like he's in the wall. In
the upside down feasting. So, you know, there's
some definite questions. They're not huge deal
breaker questions about what's going on. But
in terms of world building, it is unsatisfying.
Why does the rift open? And, yeah, why does the
rift open? When it does, where it does, how it
does. Confusion. Well, and like, so, do you think
it is just a physical connection? It's her just
touching it? I think so. Okay, tell me why. It
has to be. So I think that it has to be because
she's able to see people and listen in on the
conversations and find people and whatnot. But
she only actually opens the rift when she physically
touches the Demogorgon. And so it's like when
Mr. Clark is explaining and punches the hole
through the paper that she's essentially punching
the hole through. that space and like through
the veil essentially and creating a rift i think
that that has to be the the the actual cause
of of that it's the physical like breaking of
the barrier okay essentially if that's true which
i i think you're onto something there if that's
true i think that's the thing that shows that
the the scope of her power more than the demogorgon
or anything else that she's done because she
mr clark says it would have to be an extremely
powerful force to open up right a dimension and
if if she because of her powers is able to go
into the space and make contact and it just feels
like walking around and touching something to
her she's actually yeah way more powerful than
i than i really realize well and also so like
skip forward to season three The Russians have
to build this machine that is absolutely crazy.
And it takes them a long time. And they have
to be in a place where the rift has already been
opened before just to reopen it. So in order
to reopen the gate, they need all of these, all
this power and all of the, you know, the green
acidic, whatever it is, you know, like essentially
nuclear power or whatever. And this huge machine
and all of this just to do what she did accidentally.
So absolutely wild. So cool. When you put it
in the context. Yeah. Yeah. Fascinating. Really
important information disseminated here for season
five as well in terms of prepping y 'all for
Vecna. And we know that she has the face -off
effect, and we know that she's already beaten
him once, but in terms of what the scope of her
power is, I don't think that we actually see
just how powerful she is like this again. Because
her opening the rift is crazy powerful, if it
is indeed just her. But! Yeah. Second storyline.
Nancy, and maybe it's going to be my boyfriend,
maybe not, Jonathan, Jeffries, fire. Which, to
everybody who listened to the introduction was
like, is Jonathan's middle name Jeffries? No,
it's Michael Jordan's middle name. And so that
was a shout out to Michael Jordan. Michael Jeffrey
Jordan. Sorry about that, y 'all, if you were
confused. So they've got this huge focus, Jonathan
and Nancy on the Demogorgon. We left off with
our last episode talking about how they Jonathan
accidentally takes a photo of the Demogorgon.
That photo gets ripped up by Steve. Nancy picks
it up. stitches it back together and sees the
Demogorgon there. And so now she shows Jonathan
the photo and they decide to team up. And at
Will's funeral, which again, Jonathan's now starting
to believe Will's not dead. Joyce already believes
Will isn't dead. The kids already believe Will
isn't dead. So there's a bunch of people at this
funeral that are like, ah, kids fine. We're just
here for appearances. Yeah, for real. Jonathan.
goes into, I think, his dad's car, picks a lock,
and then takes out this revolver, which he gives
this very sad story about, my dad took me hunting
when I was 10. Oh, so upsetting. Made me kill
a bunny, and I cried for a week. She's like,
oh, God. He's like, what? I'm a big fan of Thumper.
She's like, no, not you, your dad. But it turns
out Jonathan's not very good at shooting things.
No. And Nancy is actually very good at it. Yeah.
Excellent. Really excellent. And they do a nice
job, I think, here of showing, okay, she's got
a natural talent. And unlike with a lot of other
female characters, Stranger Things, which has
already sort of been built on, hey, Eleven's
super strong, Joyce is super amazing and talented,
and Nancy's super cool. You don't hear a lot
of Mary Sue complaints, and I'm very glad about
it. Yeah. Mm -hmm. Yeah, the ladies have a pretty
good representation in the show. Yeah. And a
wide range as well, which I think is very nice.
It's not just one type of strong woman or a strong
girl or anything like that. Like Elle obviously
is very, you know, essentially physically strong
because of everything that she can do with her
powers. And then Joyce being very like mentally
and emotionally strong. Nancy intellectually
strong. And then also has some of these physical
talents as well, despite, you know, her slight
build and things like that. Yes, absolutely.
Very morally strong as well. Yes, well, not previously,
but sure. No, but I mean, in terms of like, these
things shouldn't be happening. Yes, what's right
and wrong, absolutely. Just in general, they
do a very good job of representing women in a
very good way. And then when she get Max, you've
got her. Skater punk girl strong is amazing.
Awesomeness. Yeah. So good. So good. So, and
again, a completely new, unique. And Lucas's
sister as well. Character as well. Yeah. Whose
name escapes me. Erica. Erica. Yes, thank you.
She is so annoying for a while. And then she
kind of grows on you a little bit. But yeah,
super irritating with the bell at the counter.
And Robin, another great female character. Yeah,
just racking him up. Nailing it. Nailing it,
indeed. And it's interesting. So for those of
you who are unfamiliar with the term, Mary Sue
is a derogatory term usually used to explain
women characters that are... too strong too quick
for a lot of people normally male viewers but
not always male viewers um and in this case i
i think there is there is room for an argument
to be made oh why is she just suddenly good with
guns but i think that they've done it in a way
that shows she has a natural affinity for it
that is satisfying for the viewer and i think
that's what um what escapes that sort of argument,
why that argument sort of falls apart, is it's
done in a satisfying way for the viewer to hold
on to. And even if they didn't, women can be
naturally inclined to shooting guns. I've met
very good, like, my wife is an excellent shot
with a bow. Like, it happens sometimes. And we
can all be a little bit less Mary Sue trigger
happy. Not to make a gun pun on a Mary Sue comment.
Anyways. So she, Nancy's a good shot. They find
the Demogorgon. They realize when they find this
dead deer, right? The deer's already bleeding,
etc. And then the monster comes and gets it.
They realize, oh, blood draws this. And whether
or not, I don't know that Nancy ever realizes,
oh, Barb was cut that night. I don't know that
she says those lines, but it's... certainly inferred
that they understand this she doesn't i don't
think she says it in that moment but she does
say it later on because she's listed yeah she's
listing this oh and it showed up because of the
blood here it showed up barb had her finger and
all that yeah um yeah also nancy shows an uncanny
amount of bravery in this sort of storyline because
she she finds this organic hole In a tree? And
is like, sure! And just crawls into it. Which
also, blasting those, like, women don't want
to get gross stereotypes there. Because, ew!
Ew, it's nasty. As a woman who probably would,
like, hesitate before climbing through a gross,
gross thing like that. Props. I'd be scared.
I'm amazed that nobody was like, hey, is there
a possibility that this tree, that this is just
a mouth for a weird upside down tree and it's
going to eat me if I enter it? Like, that would
be my first thought. There's no way I'd be going
in. That's a valid concern. But she goes in and
then, and then she's, you know, her teenage stupidity
gets the better of her. She goes in without telling
Jonathan. And I know they've kind of just been
fighting. Because they're romantically getting
to know each other, and they find that they're
not at all similar, but they see each other's
faults really well. But, like, she goes in without
telling Jonathan, and then she's down there by
herself with a Demogorgon and a gun, which is
like, yeah, okay, babe. And then she just starts,
like, wandering around. Bar? Yeah. Just... Oh,
wow. I like, I crawled through a tree and now
I'm in another forest, but it's really dark.
And it seems like maybe this is like, there's
like floating things. And I guess this is like,
she just acts like it's so normal. Well, and
then also just like, bye. There's this awesome
hint to season two and moving forward. When she
attracts the Demogorgon, it's not because she
touches it or she's in view. She steps on a vine.
Which is a huge thing about season two, is don't
step on the vines. Right? It's all an interconnected
hive mind. So that was really cool. It was nice
to see that little, oh, okay, they are planning
this out. Not that I doubt the Duffer Brothers
at all. No. It's a cool little tidbit there.
And then she escapes pretty easily. And you can
hear each other in the Upside Down, it turns
out. Right? Yeah, super interesting. Jonathan's
calling for her. Nancy's calling for her. And
it's unclear if it's coming through the hole
of the tree or if it's if it's just like kind
of in the air. And I feel like it's kind of there
because Joyce later and Jonathan can kind of
hear each other in episode eight in the finale.
But of course, Will and then in Will can hear.
Yeah. And in season and in season four. Yeah.
That's like a whole thing where they're like
walking parallel to each other and like calling
through essentially. Yeah, I'm realizing as I'm
talking about walking through and walking parallel
that I'm doing all these hand gestures that totally
work for an audio medium. I'm right there with
you. The auditory experience is really enhanced
by all of my wild hand motions. Y 'all are welcome.
So then Nancy does manage to escape. She climbs
back through the weird gross hole, which I will
say the one thing about this season. other than
this wild middle school serial killer moment
that I don't like is at the end of season five,
the, the hole starts to close. Yeah. And, and
then it's like, they kind of play around with
the bark motion being like, Oh, am I closing?
Am I not? But it's like, no, at the very end
of season five, you were clear at season five,
at the very end of episode five, you were clearly
closing the hole and now it's open. And I, I
just, it's a little cheap and I don't love it.
Yeah. Just a little bit. It's a great cliffhanger.
It works well for the TV medium format, but it's
kind of like, Gah! So then, Steve enters this
sort of love triangle, which, of course, he does.
But Steve and his friends, it's unclear who actually
writes the message at first, and then turns out
it's Steve's awful, terrible friend who spray
paints Nancy starring Nancy the Slut Wheeler.
on a marquee for all the right absolutely horrible
just a disgusting remark horrible um and jonathan
beats up steve which put heck yeah put steve
down for he's oh and one uh for those of you
going to keep track at home oh and one currently
q robin with her board of you win you lose So,
and then Jonathan gets arrested. And we have
this awesome moment where Hopper's already with
Joyce, which we'll get to in a second. And he
comes and he's like, what happened? And Jonathan's
like, you won't believe me. And he sidles up
to him and he goes, give me a try. Yeah. Why
don't you give me a chance? Something like that.
Which is just this great little moment of like,
oh, we're all coming together. Yay! Yay! And
that is Nancy and Jonathan's storyline, which
is, I think, the most riveting of all of them
from a plot perspective. Then there's Hop and
Joyce. Okay, so Hopper at the very end of the
last episode, our last podcast episode, had just
cut open the already autopsied question mark
Will Byers, why are there no stitches? Why are
there no stitches, Will? Why are there no stitches,
Will? Okay. And finds all the bedding fluff inside
of him. And is like, okay, so this is all terrible.
He wakes up in his apartment after getting caught
in the lab, trying to infiltrate the lab. He
wakes up in his, like, cabin, which is not the
cabin in the woods yet. It's his, like, little...
long ranch styled house by the lake um and he
uh has been they've scattered pills everywhere
they put yeah clearly a setup yeah yeah very
clearly cans of beer and what is it that he does
immediately he starts looking around to figure
out what they did yeah absolutely because he
he thinks he's bugged which is just like oh it's
so cool how smart he is And I just dig that scene
so much. Although I will say, you don't have
to rip up your couch cushions. I, yeah. I feel
like every time that I see, every time that I
see, it's a common thing in when people start
getting paranoid that like something's hidden
in their house or whatever, and they start, or
even in a, And I think it's a man from uncle.
They're in the hotel and they start, but they
always rip into the cushions. And I'm like, you
really think that they took the time to unstitch
a cushion, put it inside the cushion and then
restitch the cushion. Like there's not like a
rip in it. There's not a, if there's a zipper,
maybe use that. I mean, there's a lot of ways
to, like, get in and see if this is here. A metal
detector, maybe. Literally anything except for
destroying your couch. Like, okay, it doesn't
look like a very expensive couch, and it's a
horrible upholstery on it anyways. But if that's
your only couch. And that's your only couch.
And also, it's not like he does a very thorough
job looking. He splits open the middle. He digs
into it and is like, must not be there. And it's
like, bro. He finished the job. He didn't even,
like, really look. It's probably all bugs. He
just really hated that couch. Really, he's like.
He needed an excuse to get rid of it. Oh, no,
they bugged my apartment. Rip, rip. Oh, I guess
I have an excuse to buy a new couch. That's so
funny. He does eventually find a recording device
that's in one of his main lamp, I think. He undoes
it and it's in there with his light bulb and
stuff, which is terrifying. Yeah. But it means
that he's on to something. So he finds Joyce.
Yes. And in one of my favorite moments, Joyce
thinks it's Lonnie. They've just had this giant
blow up about Lonnie's really just there to collect
money from the organization that owns the quarry.
There's no danger signs. There's no all of this.
So he should be made accountable, which I'm like,
yes, actually, all of that's true. They should
be held accountable. And if Will really did die
in that. Except for the fact. But he's not actually
dead. And also Lonnie's just not supportive and
he's just there for the money. And I love Joyce
being strong in that whole moment. But Joyce
thinks Lonnie has come back. And she's, you know,
having a fit. As one does when you think that
your undead child is on the other side of some
weird mystery world that you have no idea what's
going on. She starts screaming at him and she
opens the door and it's this awesome moment of
Hopper. with his finger over his lips, holding
this sign that says, don't say anything. And
then it cuts. And it's just, oh, the feels are
great. They're so good. Yeah. I love that scene.
It's very good. And then Hopper and Joyce sort
of go about trying to track down any information
they can. And eventually, when they reach Jonathan,
they're able to start putting all the pieces
together. And that gets us to this. deprivation
tank where Joyce is the one saying how do we
make this all better because Dustin and Mike
are going over oh like she needs to refuel she's
really low on battery power and Joyce ever the
cognizant human being how do we make this better
and then that's when Elle is like I think I know
how and they call Dr. Clark and we get moving
and we get that awesome classic scene of making
the deprivation tank out of a kiddie pool in
the gym Yeah, so good. Those are your three best
ones. They're fantastic. They're great. They
lead us into season, episode eight. Very, very
well. And you've got a note here about what season
seven is really, episode seven is really doing.
Yeah. I mean, I feel like throughout one through
six episodes, you have very distinct storylines.
happening simultaneously but then in episode
7 it's exciting because we finally get to see
all of them overlap and then we really need to
focus on one storyline which is Brenner's singular
singular focus on finding and retrieving Elle
so it's almost like we have all these different
things happening and then it all comes in together
they share all the information everybody's in
the know And now we need to focus on this other
important thing. And it's finding and retrieving
Elle is more important to him than research,
more important to him than the Demogorgon, than
anything else that he has going on, which is
fascinating, especially with how we see from
flashbacks and then what we see in the future,
how he treats her and their relationship and
everything. The fact that she is that important
to him is. Very vital. Well, and it's interesting
to hear. So if you this is going to be a little
bit of a spoiler for the play. One of the things
that really inspired the Duffer Brothers is something
called the Philadelphia Experiment, which is
an urban legend that claimed a U .S. Navy destroyer,
a .k .a. the USS Eldred, was made invisible and
teleported during a military experiment in 1943
involving like intense electromagnetic fields.
This is the this actual experiment opens the
play. And it turns out that Brenner's father
is on this ship. And so that sort of is why he's
so interested in all of this stuff. And then
you know, okay, so he lost his dad to this because
in the play, this ship ends up in the Upside
Down and everybody dies. Oh, interesting. Yeah,
it's fascinating. And that's how I remember it
best. So I might not be 100 % on the details
because I saw it. once and i wasn't like taking
active notes during the play um but uh and so
you see you know he's lost a family member like
that already and then he loses his son going
into the rift and and so everything becomes about
this one child who can do all of these things
that he's interested in finding out information
about so l becomes like his entire world which
i think is really fascinating um yeah all right
moving on keep a finger On the pause button,
everybody, and rewind that tape, it's time for
the prestige category for what did we notice
on this watch through. Sierra. Episode five gets
us our first upside down. Indeed, it really does.
Yeah, it's the first time we hear of it referred
to as upside down. It takes five episodes, which
is kind of wild. And then that, you know, carries
through for the rest of the show, which is pretty
great. Indeed. I wrote down a couple things here.
Lonnie just sucks. He sucks as a husband. He
does. He sucks as a dad. Remember? Terrible.
He's in Jonathan's room and he's got like something
of the nature of Creature of the Black Lagoon.
movie poster it's not that exact one but it's
a monster with a hand on the throat of a young
woman kind of dragging her down into it's like
night of the living dead or something like that
of that nature um and he points to it he says
take that down it's inappropriate like who are
you after all these years to come marching back
into my to my room to tell me what or is not
appropriate like clearly joyce goes into their
bedrooms and sees things and if she's cool with
it is fine with it who are you like you have
no power here bud um yeah exactly and then uh
i wrote down here wait l doesn't know how to
get to the upside down is she lying and then
i realized oh yeah that's right she is she's
lying through her teeth yeah this entire time
I wrote down that Lucas certainly has a lot of
expectations for a kid who's only said about
10 words. He just thinks that L should know everything
and be able to do everything, and he just met
this girl two days ago, and somehow she should
be omniscient and omnipowerful and everything,
and just be able to do whatever they ask. because
they totally have a right to just demand things
of her question. It's really interesting because
it's such a juxtaposition from the way that Mike
treats Max next season. So we know Lucas is jealous
of the amount of attention that Elle is receiving
from Mike because Mike and Lucas are best friends.
And then Mike is super jealous of the attention
that Lucas is giving Max in season two. But instead,
Lucas is thinking way too much of Elle versus
Mike thinks way too little of Max. Yeah. Definitely.
Yeah, it's pretty interesting. It really is.
I have written down a couple different notes.
Jonathan knows where his dad keeps his gun, and
he can pick locks, and he can take killer photos
and make breakfast and be caring of his family.
Why is Nancy dating Steve at all? Jonathan is
a full package of a man. Yes, but Steve has the
hair. Jonathan does have very bad hair. That's
very true. Yes. But also, like, Steve the Hair
Harrington. Steve the Hair Harrington. Yeah,
that's true. But also, like, Nancy's smart enough
to know that there's more to life than hair.
Yeah, I mean, but every teenage girl can get
distracted by the hair for a hot minute. Come
on. Stupid. She figures it out. She does, eventually,
but she's an idiot. She does. What teenager isn't?
That's very accurate. Sorry, teenagers, but it's
true. We're all a little bit of an idiot when
we're teens. It's fine. Yes. Hopper turns to
Joyce's side is my favorite part of the season
because he starts out so like, oh my gosh, is
he just with Lonnie? Will's probably just with
his dad. All the way to like, I know everything
that you've been talking about is real. And I'm
here to help. Yeah. That's by far my favorite
part of the season. Alright, major question here.
How is there a gate in the tree? The only thing
that I can think of is that the Demogorgon, when
on the scent of blood, can open a temporary passage
to get through, same as him attempting to go
through the wall. But how? In Joyce's place.
I don't know. Because Demogorgon magic? But how
do Demogorgons have magic? I don't know. Yeah,
okay. So this is my real speculation is that
Vecna is doing this. That Vecna, the other telekinetic
being in the world that's been in there is open.
But then a part of me is like, but then why isn't
he just popping out and doing that? And is it
just like because the rift is weak and therefore
things are now starting to pop open everywhere?
Like, I just don't understand. Why this tree
has a hole and why a Demogorgon can be like,
I can now press through to the other side. He's
not the door. Sorry, that's a terrible joke.
Break on through to the other side. No, I got
you. So, okay, but here's the thing. So here
there's a gate in a tree and the Demogorgon can
pop through and Nancy can go through. In the
next season, Hop digs a hole into the Upside
Down. Right. So, I think it's just, like, once
the gate is open, the veil is weak. It's, like,
just tears through the time -space continuum,
essentially, of, Sam, the real reason is it's
wibbly -wobbly timey -wimey time. I know that's
the real reason that it's there, because the
plot needs points, but, like, I just want to
understand for the world what's going on. I know.
It's so frustrating. uh you know what's not what
is also frustrating but understandable yeah is
your hatred of mike i do i do not i do not like
mike and that's one of my main notes here i and
this this will continue you are not like the
movie from like mike yes i'm not like the commercials
like mike if he was michael jeffrey jordan's
i would absolutely like mike but he's not Michael,
whatever their last name is, that's not Byers.
Wheeler. Wheeler, thank you. Okay, this will
continue every season that I don't like Mike.
One of my all -time favorite moments is when
Hopper... decides to to not quiet parent or soft
parent mike when he's like i'll use my words
and then he just decides to lay into him and
like in the car when mike's being an absolute
like garbage faced human being to him and he
just feels it and i'm like yeah and i'm like
i'm not that type of person in real life i think
everyone should use their words and you should
be patient and good with but like i can't stand
this kid i love the actor he's great But Mike
is just so annoying. And people are like, oh,
he's the leader. He's like my favorite character.
What leadership is he doing? Just looking at
Al and being like, what's wrong with you? And
boom, leadership done. Out. Tell me. Okay, I
will. I will, however. I will get to this when
we start talking about the crazy serial killer.
kid i will get to the the little bit of redeeming
mike ness okay we'll get there great we'll get
there his willingness to just jump off a quarry
being like i'll be fine i mean basically but
but here's the thing we'll get there okay sorry
all right all right before then before then mike
makes a comment that it's like r2d2 trying to
fight darth vader um I'm sorry, but I think that
would actually probably go pretty well. Okay.
I think R2 -D2 has a great chance of fighting
Vader, and here's a couple reasons why. First
of all, the personal relationship between R2
-D2 and Anakin Skywalker, in and of itself, I
think, could lend itself very well. R2 -D2 knows
how to interact with this man. and has the ability
as the narrator of the story to defeat Darth
Vader. I was thinking about this a lot. Sneaky.
Sneaky ways. He's not going to one -on -one combat
him. That's the main point. At first I was like,
what the heck? I don't want to get us too sidetracked,
but at first I was like, Sierra, this is stupid.
This would not go well. Vader would, like, coke
crush R2 against his head. Like, he just uses
the force on this metal and goes... Like, do
we not remember when he woke up and said no and
destroyed the hospital that he was in when he
turned to Vader? And then I was like, oh, wait,
no, but R2 knows that Anakin's Vader. Oh, wait,
no, he doesn't. And he doesn't know the extent
of his injuries. because he wasn't there on Mustafar.
He got told to stay with the ship, which is the
whole reason why R2, when Luke was like, stay
with the ship, R2's like, no, in Empire. No.
Yeah. But... Ha ha. I learned from my mistake.
Fool me once, shame on you. And R2 is like, and
R2 is kind of validated by that decision because...
Luke only loses a hand. He doesn't lose three
limbs and get burnt to a crisp. So that's a point
for R2. But this is not Star Wars. So then I
was like, okay, actually, though, Vader has a
lot of metal in him. A lot of machinery in him.
R2 is a droid. His whole thing is to mess around
with machinery. And so if R2, probably with all
of his sensors, pick up that Vader is... mainly
metal for almost all of his limbs, and that his
suit regulates his breathing and all that sort
of stuff. I do wonder, because again, Vader can't
sense metal in the Force. Right. It brings all
living beings together, and as much as R2 and
C -3PO, we love them, they're not technically
by Force standards living unless they're like
R5, but that's a whole different discussion.
Yeah. So... I think it would be possible if R2
is sneaky that he fires off an EMB and just completely
obliterates Vader's suit. His life support system
is just decimated. I'm saying. And then I think
it could work out. Otherwise, I think he has
absolutely no choice. Because I really do think
they would just pan over. And if it was Stranger
Things, they would pan over and Archie would
be literally painted to look like a Coke can
for product placement. And then he would just
L Stranger Things the Coke can. But it would
be Vader and DT. Anyways. I love this. Also,
I forgot how much we hate Steve. Yeah. In this
first season. Absolutely. And also, I wrote this
here and then I continued, you know, my rewatch.
But I said, also, do we just never hear about
his terrible friends again? Do they die? Please
tell me they die. Okay. So my headcanon for this.
Because his friends are horrible. My headcanon
for this is that this Troy, who we're going to
speak of, we've been alluding to this moment
the whole time, and we're still not there, but
that Troy, who's the guy that threatens Dustin
with a knife, is actually a little itty -bitty
committee serial killer. And he goes around offing
some people, and that's why certain characters
disappear, including himself. We never really
see Troy that much again. And so he does that
to Steve's... terrible friends and that's the
reason why they're gone is that he's just the
background serial killer that victim's like hey
i'm not even having to do all the bad stuff that
would be a wild side story criminal minds taking
place during strange would be a great spin -off
it would be great uh Yes, finally in episode
seven, though, as I spoke about before, we start
getting some inner storyline communication. It
absolutely drives me nuts. I get very anxious
sometimes during these seasons when certain people
know certain things and they're just not sharing
it with the class. I'm like, you guys are brother
and sister. Talk. talk you you guys are our uh
son and mother just share something i'm like
you guys are in the same house like share something
drives me nuts but then hop is getting all the
pieces together thank goodness that he can start
actually melding it into one and he's not like
one track minded just thinking oh that can't
have anything to do with this Goodness gracious,
it's a good thing he doesn't believe in coincidences.
And he's able to pull it all together, and it's
awesome. Thank goodness. Speaking of things that
drive me crazy and Hopper melding together, can
we get him a new hat? I hate his hat. His hat's
terrible. It doesn't really work for his head.
It's like, you know, supposed to be going for
this kind of old -fashioned noir. Also, Joyce
is a phenomenal mother. She's concerned about
Elle. Immediately. She is so desperate to go
find Will that she won't let Hopper go without
him at the end of season or episode seven. I
keep seeing season. My God. It's just she's she's
so good. And I just love her so much. She's really
great. A parent that I is not great. That is
really not not excellent. We haven't seen an
excellent moment from this man at all, which
is Mr. Wheeler has this lovely quote. This is
our government. They're on our side. Insert laugh
cry emojis until I die. He's so oblivious, it's
crazy. Oh, God. But I feel like that's such a,
like, 80s middle class guy thing to think is
like, hey. we got through a couple of wars. Like
we're in a good, our government is on our side.
You know, we haven't had all the scandals come
out yet. We haven't had. It's interesting to
hear from a real life perspective. Cause Reagan.
is president at the time and one of his like
most famous quotes about government is the eight
scariest words in the human language are i'm
from the government and i'm here to help so the
fact that he he seems like he would be a reaganite
man right he lives in indiana in the midst of
uh and is a white suburban man those in general
those were voters for reagan you would think
he'd be like oh the government they're here to
help oh no but no he's like i'm sure they're
on our side Totally. Everything's fine, honey.
You let them go through our children's rooms.
No problem. They can upturn our entire existence.
Whatever. They didn't even show up for it. It's
fine. Yeah. It's totally fine. Oh, Lord almighty.
Okay. We are here at the moment that we've been
waiting for. I forgot. how extreme it's so extreme
this scene is so obviously troy's this bully
he's been bullying the boys throughout because
they're nerds and he's a jock we think i mean
his name's troy one could only assume and so
we can only assume that he's been you know really
bullying and whatever however i'm sorry a middle
schooler going to cut a kid's throat Or cut his
teeth out of his mouth. Is absolutely insane.
This kid is the kid of all the kids who needs
all of the therapy. Because that is insane. It's
insane. The entire scene is just wild. From the
fact that he grabs Dustin and puts a knife to
his throat. And then tells Mike to go walk off.
A cliff? Or he's gonna cut his baby teeth out?
Like, what the heck? What? This is - That's like,
it goes from middle school bully to absolutely
insane asylum worthy speech in five seconds.
So this is my, from a writing perspective and
from like a show perspective, my least favorite
moment of everything. Uh, that includes the desert
storyline in season four. That includes the Chicago
storyline in season two, which are massively
unpopular storylines with a lot of fans. I, I
just like, I don't understand the reason for
ratcheting up. Yeah. And the fact that he's like,
he tells Mike to go kill himself is. Yeah. Literally.
And you don't have to do that. You could have
had it where they have a scrap and he gets accidentally
pushed off. There's no reason to up this bully
level so dramatically. It feels like sort of
a rookie writing workshop mistake that you get
in your initial creative writing class, to me.
It just feels like somebody just overshot. I
don't mean to criticize the writers that much.
I think they do a phenomenal job. The rest of
the show is absolutely incredible. I just do
not understand this moment from a writing or
a show perspective. Troy, squeezing bladder to
put yourself in front of the school to murder?
Yeah, exactly. And permanent disfiguration? What?
Yeah. Being a little bit humiliated all the way
up to just, I'm going to murder you and your
friends, essentially, is just... bonkers bonkers
um we do however get one little moment of redemption
for all of mike's whining um which is that he
is literally ride or die for his friends um because
he is he is going to die i mean it's crazy i
don't think he realizes that he's going to die
though because he's he's like no it's fine I
don't think so either. He's just, yeah, I think
he just thinks he's going to get really hurt
or something like that. But there's not a way
he lives through that. No, I mean, Hopper explains
it at the beginning. The water becomes like cement,
as he calls it. Yeah, exactly. And I just, like,
I don't think, and I think Troy probably also
doesn't understand that he's going to die, to
be fair. Probably not. I think everybody just
has this misconception that water is not a solid
and that... When you get up to terminal velocity,
it's going to be okay. Yeah. But, and like, the
only chance Mike would even have is if he pencil
dived with a perfect, perfect angle. But he doesn't.
He goes belly flop, which is, he's going to shatter
all of his bones. Yeah. But also, I will tell,
I will say, okay, so sure, Mike is willing to
make sure that Dustin isn't hurt. That's true.
He's also stupid, though. And this is my whole
thing about, oh, he's such a great leader. Is
he? Like, the smart thing to do is just to be
like, hey, man, you're going to permanently disfigure
my friend. We're going to go tell everybody who
did this and you're going to get arrested. Like,
there's... Yeah. What? Also, like, they're baby
teeth. So, like, he doesn't... As Dustin says,
he doesn't need them. Like, just keep fighting.
Like, unless he's actually going to kill... He's
just an idiot. Yeah. But again, it's the whole
scene. It's just upsetting. But you're right.
He's literally right or die. He's a very loyal
friend. He'd make a great, stupid Hufflepuff.
For now. Before he has a girlfriend. Before he
has a girlfriend, indeed. Speaking of having
feelings, you've got your last note here. My
last note here just cracked me up. From now on,
we tell each other everything between Mike and
Nancy, and then they immediately lie to each
other about their emotions, which is just a classic
sibling move that really tickled me. Absolutely.
It's like, we tell each other everything from
now on. Immediate lies. Are you dating Jonathan?
What? No. Do you like Eleven? No. Okay. Great.
Great. We're all on the same page. Excellent.
Excellent. Lovely, lovely. So funny. You know,
Sam, what is the most important character moment
of this set of episodes? The only thing that
I think is actually the most important moment,
because there's a lot of moments that are leading
up to episode eight. So none of them have really
reached their sort of climax. But I think. Right.
In this case, it's Nancy gaining her confidence
and sense of self, where she wields the gun,
she goes into the forest with Jonathan, she goes
into the unknown. The unknown. She goes into
the... Well, it is the unknown, but the upside
down. Into the unknown! Sorry, no, we're not
going to get copyrighted on that one. Don't get
sued, Sierra! Dang it! You had one job! One job!
Our GoFundMe will be at SierraDon'tGetSuedGoFundMe
.com. No, I think that it's her moment of diving
into, like, actually going through the tree hole
to the upside down. I think that character moment
is so important for what defines Nancy for the
rest of the series. Yeah. No, I definitely would
agree, for sure. Fantastic. And I know that you
just lost a hand, Sierra, but I'd like you to
listen, because it's time. For I am your father
category of most iconic character moment. It
has to be Eleven flipping the van. That's so
iconic. I mean, you think of Stranger Things
and it's just the... The slow -mo. Yeah. Awesome.
Awesome. Awesome. I mean, it already has all
of the 80s E .T. vibes. It already has... The
bad men are coming. Yeah, exactly. They're all
in vans. And instead of them going up and over
the canyon, it's her flipping the bus up and
over. It's beautiful. Exactly. It's phenomenal.
So good. It's amazing. You and I are the opposite
of whatever those Muppets are called. Waldorf
and whatever his name is. We're not heckling.
We're absolutely... Adorizing it. Yes. I have
two honorable mentions for this because it is
100 % the 11 flipping the van. I will say Hopper
entering Joyce's house with the sign saying don't
say anything and his finger on his lips is a
great, is an amazing moment. It's pretty great.
I don't know that it's iconic, but every time
I see it, I'd forgotten it every time, which
is why I don't think it's iconic. But every time
I'm like, oh yeah, give it to me. Let's go. And
then Eleven stealing the Eggos and breaking the
store I think is actually iconic. Her, like,
piling those Eggos into her arm. But product
placement will always sort of jot it down a bit.
Detract. Yeah, for real. Yeah. Everybody, sit
down. It's time for our I Am Iron Man. Most iconic
and most important scene. category so i've got
a couple of different versions mainly just two
in fact they're just it's literally a couple
um there's the bus face -off scene which we return
we return up to this sort of like car graveyard
up on a hill uh setting a lot it reminds me a
little bit of dragon age 2 where you're like
oh the warehouse where my mom got torn apart
is also the warehouse where this chest is and
it's also this place where i'm meeting the slave
traders um and this is one of those places uh
so they're up in this old school bus they're
hiding from the bad men with l and lucas and
mike and crew and they're trying to see if hopper
is lando where he's betrayed them or if he's
yeah actually cool uh Three men arrive in suits
and off screen we hear somebody take them out.
And then Hopper comes on the bus and says, let's
go! And, you know, it sort of picks up from there.
So good. The other one that I have is perhaps
also the kiddie pool sensory deprivation tank
in the school gymnasium scene. The school gym
becomes such another one of those places that
we keep going back to. the sort of salt in the
pool deprivation tank becomes almost somewhat
of a cliche scene now for stranger things. So
those are my two iconic scenes, but we got to
pick one. So where, where are you leaning? I
think I'd lean towards the bus face off more
just because I think I don't, when I think of
more like iconic situations and scenes in. Stranger
Things over the seasons, I do remember the bus
and the car graveyard a lot more than I ever
think about them being in the gym. So I think
that just becomes a little bit more impactful
when you have them luring the demodogs from that
same bus, and then they come back to the bus
again. When they're tracking both up and below
and things like that. So I feel like just for
kind of leading through all the different seasons,
I would argue that that is more important based
on location. Location, location, location. Plus,
I think that it's the first time that the kids
really see Hopper as someone that they can trust
and connect with and not just like another adult.
Yeah, that's true. That's absolutely true. Okay,
we'll go with that one. So now it's time to crack
open an encyclopedia because it is, as Elijah
Wood once said, no, how could we have known category
where we discuss the most important information
disseminated to the fandom over these last three
episodes. Which you've got. Yes, Eleven opened
the gate when trying to make contact with the
Demogorgon. We've talked about this so much,
but yes, absolutely. I mean, that's like the
most vital piece of information that is passed
along during these episodes is that that is how
this gate was opened. Yeah. There's still so
much we don't... We've talked about this. We
don't understand about it. I know. It's crazy.
So keep that in mind for season five. Eleven
opens the gate. She's that powerful. Yes. Time
to keep your horses safe. It is the I'm gonna
make him an offer he can't refuse category of
best lines. I absolutely love, she's our friend
and she's crazy. I, if this other line didn't
happen, Sierra, I would be 100 % with you. That
that is the best line. But it's unacceptable
when compared to the police station secretary
who's talking. to nancy about jonathan after
he beats up steve and she cooks on this line
when she says you know she's like tell your boyfriend
and nancy's like what he's he's not my boyfriend
what would make you say that and she goes yeah
she's she's putting ice into like some sort of
handkerchief or towel or something uh because
it's the 80s and they haven't made ice packs
apparently uh and she she goes Only loves make
you that crazy sweetheart and then hands her
the ice pack and that damn stupid. It's amazing.
And that's absolutely the best line in which
you cannot. Fair enough. Thank you. Also, I will
point out that right after that, Nancy immediately
takes all the credit for the ice because she
hands the ice to Jonathan and she goes, found
some ice. No, you didn't. You were handed it
while being given a life lesson by a random woman.
Oh, gosh. Dust off that old card deck. Get ready
to shuffle. It's our Joker category. For who
is the MVP of this episode, I have three choices
for you, Sierra. Okay. All right, I'm ready.
Nancy Jonathan, who do the whole figuring out
to go into a tree hole. Yeah. Get the Demogorgon,
understand that it's attracted to blood, all
that sort of stuff. You've got Dustin, who's
the one who does all the math figures for the
sensory deprivation tank, which confirms Barb's
death and Will's being alive. Or, and I think
I would go with this guy. Just pound for pound
impact, which is just my favorite way to think
about MVPs, is Mr. Clark. Because he, in this,
explains the entire premise of punching through
to different dimensions and giving them the clues
of gravitational pull and electromagnetic pulses
and all that stuff. He's not on the screen for
very long, but he's absolutely vital to them
actually being able to go and do anything. So
he's not necessarily the basket maker, but he's
the playmaker. Yeah. Hmm. Hmm. Hmm. Wow. Those
are three very good options. You know, we may
have to go with Mr. Clark for this one. Because
without him, it's not understood how any of this
works or how you would get there or how anything
would get through or how you would connect to
it. He's also the one that tells them how to
make... It's with the flea on the tightrope.
And he tells them how to make the stupid deprivation
tank thing. True. Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.
Yeah. Gotta be Mr. Clark. It's gotta be Mr. Clark.
Okay, Mr. Clark, MVP, which is crazy. Wild. It's
wild that he gets an MVP vote and award. But
he does. Yes, indeed. Well, Sam, it's time to
clean up your evil lair and get ready for our...
was the turkey all along? Category four. What
is the biggest takeaway viewers should leave
with in preparation for season five? You guessed
it. There is still more going on than we can
fully understand. Eleven opened the gate to the
Upside Down. The lab already knew the Upside
Down was there because they're trying to make
contact. So... How do they know about the Upside
Down? Eleven, is she grown specifically for the
purpose of reaching through to the Upside Down,
or were there other purposes for her? There's
so much going on in kind of her still, like,
we get a lot more information about her backstory,
but we still don't fully understand kind of what
happened to jumpstart this specific them. Making
contact with the upside down and how that involves.
Yeah, I it's really, you know, it's great fodder
for podcasting. It is a little frustrating, though.
And we get a little bit of this answer in season
four. We know that they there are being trained
to do psycho stuff because of. because Brenner's
interested in that. We know from the play, what
I said earlier, I don't want to spoil it again
in case people skipped over that, that Brenner
has some real reasons why he's invested in the
Upside Down, that he kind of knows where it is
-ish. And, you know, we've got all the Vecna
information, so Eleven is grown to sort of do
what Vecna was doing before Vecna was uncontrollable,
before they put in Vecna's little, hey, stop,
stop doing this technology. But there's just
a lot more that I feel like needs to be disseminated.
Exactly how did the gate get opened? Is it the
fear? Is it the scream? Is it Eleven losing control?
Is it just her punching through when she touched
the Demogorgon? That sort of stuff. I think that's
absolutely true. There's also some information
given about her powers, specifically. So Mike
and Dustin have this explanation as to what's
going on with Eleven to Joyce and the adults
and stuff. Mike says, Whenever she uses her powers,
she gets weak. Dustin adds, the more energy she
uses, the more tired she gets. Mike, but she's
drained. Dustin, like a battery. Joyce, how do
we make her better? So that's when we're introduced
to the sensory deprivation tanks and how Eleven
needs to be on one in order to tap into her sixth
senses, kind of, you know, to be better at doing
it. As you said, she does it with white noise
later, but the sensory deprivation certainly
helps the most. Doing that. But it is frustrating
because we don't really know for what reason
her senses need calming down. We don't know why.
Like, oh, I can now smell better because all
my other senses are turned off. Although people
say that's true. Is that just it? Is it that
simple or is it something else? You know, that
sort of stuff. I mean, if you've ever been driving
down a road and you need to pay attention to
what you're seeing, you turn the radio down.
That's true. Fair point. I concede defeat. But
it is the strange space that Stranger Things
sometimes lives in. It's a mixture of soft fantasy
and hard fantasy. And with all the science fiction.
the hard science fiction that they put in. This
is how this happens. It is frustrating sometimes
to get the soft fantasy when you're like, but
you're so good at the science fiction aspects.
Why is this so soft for the fantasy? Yeah. Also
another thing that we really learn and get some
information about is just that the upside down
has the same layout as real life and that people
can be. kind of tracked through it and somewhat
heard through, like, the veil, essentially, between
real life and the upside down. That definitely
comes into play in later seasons. You know, go
to the XYZ location, up or down, and, you know,
be able to interact through that and everything.
So I think that that is a very important thing
that we find out in these episodes, is just that
it's a mirrored... situation um and also being
able to hear through it uh more than through
lights or radio static or whatever the case may
be and actually be able to communicate through
super key yeah and and what like we've been saying
mr cork explains that we have this huge amount
of energy to create a hole through the barrier
to get to the upside down um That it would mess
with gravity, magnetic fields, etc. I do find
it fascinating that the Upside Down is exactly
the same layout, but as if it's... It bears all
these questions on like, okay, so is what happens
in Hawkins, does that set what's going on? As
soon as a house gets built in the Upside Down,
what's going on with that? Or is it just like,
did Vecna just recreate his old town? Because
when he gets there, what's happening with that?
So there's a lot of questions to be had. for
that as well, that I think that they'll answer
in Season 5, because we started to get some sort
of flash answers at the end of Season 4. Right.
Hopefully. Interestingly enough, the Veil of
Shadows in a D &D context is made up for the
show. Really? Yeah, so I did some sleuthing on
the internet. Veil of Shadows is not a Dungeons
& Dragons concept. However, it is clearly a reference
to both Shadow Veil and the Plane of Shadows.
But it is... Okay, okay. I think I was thinking
of the plane of shadows. It is alluding to D
&D. Like, actual, like, not D &D being used as
a mechanic to play, but like the actual Dungeons
& Dragons world. Right. Yeah, exactly. So that
I thought was fascinating. That is really interesting.
I guess it's just kind of like such a common,
I don't know about common, but it's a concept
that you see in a number of different fantasy
settings. And so I guess it just extrapolates
out that it would make a lot of sense for that
to exist. But yeah, that does kind of surprise
me that it specifically is not in there. Especially
when you know that Vecna is like an actual D
&D character. I hadn't realized that it was made
up for the show specifically. That was cool.
I thought that was neat. Yeah, no. That is cool.
Today's public service announcement. Are you
a switchblade wielding serial killer middle school
bully? Same! That's why I went to Dr. Brenner's
home for the criminally insane. He zaps the bully
right out of you. Well, thank you, listener schmissiners,
for listening to this episode of Fandom Schmandom.
If you'd like to discuss this episode or any
other episode we've done, please hit us up on
our social media channels. You can find us on
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us in the algorithms of other like -minded shmissioners
out there. And with that, we're out, y 'all.
Don't forget to tip your demogorgons. And fare
thee well! Fandom Schmandom was created by Sam
Williams and Ciara Obermark. The show is produced
by Aurelia Lieb. The editor is Brittany Fisher.
The music is by Jeremiah Alves. So I just got
like stuck in my throat for a second. Great start.
Great start. Welcome to Sierra dying. Yes. Okay.
I'm sure Brittany at this point is like, what
the hell is this going on? You guys have been
recording for 10 minutes and you haven't said
a single damn thing. Also, like, why do I have
to cut out all of this? Everything is coming
together, which might be good news for Jonathan,
Nancy, Hopper, and Joyce, but it's not for Dr.
Brenner, Mike, Luke, Luke, Luke, Luke DeSoleil.
We get Elle's powers more fully explored, explored
it. Oh my God. Sorry, cut that section. Britney,
I have 17 ,000 million apologies for you. I'm
very sorry. This is such a difficult episode
for you. If you don't skip through all the time
that we've told you to skip through and you end
up listening to all of our million apologies
in silence, then here's million and one apologies
for the chaos that is this episode. Hey, we did
it. Brittany, we did it. Brittany, we did it.
Brittany, I'm sorry.