WEBVTT

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Hello everyone and welcome to Once Upon a Time

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at the Oscars. You can't do that to me. You cannot

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do that. The show that takes you through every

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Best Picture nominee from 1927 to today. I'm

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Kyle. I'm Ryan. And we've been recording for

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30 seconds. We felt a little silly goofy. A little

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silly goofy. A little silly goofy. We talked

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about Mexican food and now we're... Un poco loco.

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Well, we talked about Mexican food and specifically

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on how I think you sometimes are a little worried

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about how they're going to perceive how Latin

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you are, of whether you like burrito tacos or

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any kind of specific Mexican delicacy. And meanwhile,

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I'm more of a un poco loco kind of guy. Right,

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right, right. Where I just kind of ride fast

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and loose. What is your Mexican order of choice?

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You said you love some carnitas. Is that what

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you said? The carnitas look good on the menu

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that I saw from you. This says a lot to my Hispanic

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heritage. I'm a big nachos guy, so not super

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Hispanic. But I do really like a chili relleno.

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Oh, my God. I love some chili poblanos. Oh, I

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love them. I don't think I should have said that.

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You're doing great, man. No, I don't think I

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should have. Welcome to Mi Casa. i'm having a

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good time um i love some chili poblanos i i love

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chili reynos um i really try to like here's my

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problem and i hope this like resonates with like

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white people everywhere cool i try my best to

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be honoring to the culture without sounding performative

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right right i worry sometimes like i have a co

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-worker named like uh alissa yeah but she like

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said like oh you can call me like elisa and i

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was like 100%. And were you like, oh, Alisa.

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No, no, no. Okay. That would be too much. But

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I do say Alisa, right? So sometimes I hear other

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people refer to her as Alisa. And I'm like, I

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hope you don't think I'm being performative.

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I'm just trying to, like, you know, honor what

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she told me. That, like, she wants to go by Alisa.

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And she was like, there's, like, five things

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I can go by. I don't mind. Anyways, I just try.

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I hope it doesn't come across as performative

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when I try to roll the L's. I cannot roll my

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R's for the life of me. That whole, like, I can't

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do it. Sure. Even that attempt, you can see how

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I can't do it. Yeah. But the L's with, like,

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Rayeno, like, I try to, like, Y it a little bit.

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Yeah, yeah. I try to do that, but I hope it doesn't

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come across as, like, look at this guy. I used

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to be really good at rolling my R's until I moved.

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to Georgia. And then I started home of the, get

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those rolling R's out of here. Exactly. Yeah.

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So I, I lost a little bit of, of my heritage,

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but I try to stay true to my family's culture.

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And every time, uh, like I go to work at the

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haunted house and I see the, the kids that work

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there, I walk up and I say, Hey, and they're

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like, go away. Uh, yeah, I'm not quite at that

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level. I, thankfully, uh, I would like to thank,

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uh, Tia Paca for ingraining that in my blood.

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Who do I have to thank for ingraining what I

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know? You, I guess, maybe? Anything I learn is

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going to be through you, so thank you. Oh, great.

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Good luck with that. Everyone's mad at me, and

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then I tell them it's Kyle. Oh, that's why. Yeah.

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Now we're mad at Kyle. Ay caramba. I'm trying

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so hard to be good. I'm trying so hard to be

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on pace. Hey, you know what has nothing to do

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with Mexican food? I was just about to say, you

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know what? One thing I love to do is when we

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start these episodes, we have like a segue. And

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I need everyone at home to know that this segue

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does not exist. There is no Venn diagram. We've

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never had a segue. No, I think we've done a pretty

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good job of segue in the past. Yeah. When we

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talked about Beauty and the Bounty and Captain

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Blood, we talked about pirates and everything.

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And like, how do you feel about pirates? That's

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true. I think we found good segues. into it.

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Yeah. This one, there is no Venn diagram. There's

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not even a circle. We have so much space between

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the circle of Mexican cuisine and Doddsworth.

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I got you here. I got you here. Okay. Doddsworth,

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he would not have the huevos rancheros for breakfast.

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Doesn't matter if he's in Mexico, he would still

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have the eggs and ham. That's true. So there

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you go. I was just about to say, I feel like

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he would over his wife, Fran, but... I think

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you're right. No, she would get whatever for

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breakfast. Oh, she would get whatever is the

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culture. Yes. Okay. You're absolutely right.

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So we're talking about Doddsworth today. This

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was a really interesting one. I'm excited to

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get into this with you because I think there's

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a lot to talk about with it, obviously. And of

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the first things to talk about, it's going to

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be the nominations. And we have seven nominations.

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That's a lot. By the way, hindsight, I did. Recently,

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one of my directors at my job recently celebrated

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six years of working at the company. Nice. We

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have a thing called Bonus League where we can

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send points of, hey, congratulations on this

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thing. Thanks for your help, whatever it is.

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And you can put a GIF underneath it. And a lot

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of people were doing it for that person saying,

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congratulations on six years. And it was GIFs

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of jokes about the number six. I was like, what

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could I do? And I said, you know. Something very

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heartfelt, like, thank you for your, like, leadership

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and everything. Like, I was very, like, sweet

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and honest about it. And for understanding my

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movie references at the end. And then the GIF

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that I used was a movie reference, and it was

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The Dark Knight. And it was when the Joker goes,

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like, when he's, like, being interrogated and

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asks how many of his cop buddies that he killed.

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He's like, yes. And I shared that. And at the

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time, it was, like, really funny. And as soon

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as I shared it, I was like, is that bad taste?

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I hope not. Only if you work at the police department.

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Only if I work at the... Which we don't. Spoiler

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for me. There you go. The seven nominations include

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Sound Recording, which was Thomas T. Moulton

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of Samuel Goldwyn Recording Studios. Art Direction

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was Richard Day. Screenplay was Sydney Howard.

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Supporting Actress was Maria Ospenskaya. Actor

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was Walter Houston. Director was William Wyler,

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someone that we'll be talking about for a long

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time to come, and kind of the introduction to

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the scene. Right? Of this figure. Yes. And Outstanding

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Production was on behalf of Samuel Goldwyn Productions.

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Pictures. Pictures. Yeah. Look at that. Samuel

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Goldwyn Pictures. I made it. You made it. Nice

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work, man. I will say, supporting actress for

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Maria Ospenskaya, when I was writing this name

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down for the first time, I looked at it and my

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eyes just went really wide. I was like, that

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is a lot of letters. Yeah, it is a lot. That

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is a lot of vowels that I have to get it through.

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Great name. I'm excited to talk about her. Yeah,

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me too. Are you familiar with her? I'm not familiar

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with her, and I'll be honest, this was a movie

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where the whole time I was like, when's this

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Maria Ospenskaya going to show up? She does take

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a while to show up. And when she shows up, she

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shows up, but it is very short. Yeah. So this

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film follows the story of Sam Dodsworth and his

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wife Fran, and he is a... automobile manufacturer

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like tycoon and he is he has just sold his company

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so he's saying goodbye to the lifestyle that

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he has lived for so many years and he and his

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wife decide to take a journey to england and

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they do so by ship and while they're on this

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cruise ship headed to england they begin to discover

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things about themselves and their relationship

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and kind of their needs so this This is really

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like a heavy, heavy drama that I did not anticipate

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when I first put it on. I thought it was going

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to be kind of fun and cute and a little silly,

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maybe with some like serious theming. You know,

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I think when we talk about. when we talk about

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movies with like one name, we think of it like

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a biopic, right? Like an Aerosmith, or even though

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it's the great Ziegfeld, Ziegfeld. And while

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this isn't like necessarily like a one -to -one

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biopic, it does kind of like, we would think

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Dodsworth. Okay, cool. So who is this about?

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That's a Dodsworth. But this is more of a kind

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of like an introspective look at relationships

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and marriage than it is like the individual of

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Dodsworth. So it's almost like Dodd's Worths

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is like what the name should be. Right, because

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you are following the two of the married couple,

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Sam and Fran, and that is Walter Houston and

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Ruth Chatterton, respectively. And it's, yeah,

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I just did not expect this to be as heavy. Before

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I get too far away from it, this is based on

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the Sidney Howard stage play from 1934, which

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was in turn based on the 1929 novel by Sinclair

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Lewis. Which, isn't there a Lewis Sinclair? There

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is a Lewis Sinclair. Threw me for a loop. But

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yeah, yeah. Initially, like my first thoughts

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on this movie is this is so heavy in a way that

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shies away from like melodrama that we've dabbled

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in so often on the podcast. And I think there's

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a lot here that makes this feel kind of elevated

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beyond most of the dramas we've covered. This

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feels kind of real. And grounded. It does. And

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I think it's because from the get -go, it's not

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very clear what we're doing. I think that there's

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kind of an exploration of that once they get

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on the cruise ship. Because up until this point,

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we see Sam come home. And we think this is kind

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of a movie about Sam. He is the titular Dodsworth.

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And we're going to follow him and his journey

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into retirement. And maybe how he gets back to

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it. Maybe how he loses everything. Who knows?

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But in reality, it's much more of like a personal

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drama between these two people. I guess what

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we should do is we should set this up. What we

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find is that, you know, the working man of Sam

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Dodsworth finds that he just wants to kind of

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see the things that he wasn't able to. He wants

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to travel. He wants to see the joys in things.

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He wants to look out in the horizon and see the

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beam of light coming from the horizon. The lighthouse.

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The lighthouse, right. He wants to see everything

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and experience it. And sure, it's cold up there,

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but he wants to be able to experience these things

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and meet people. And his wife, Fran, is much

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more interested in being embraced in the culture,

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in the lifestyle of the places that they go to.

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So she wants to be a socialite. She wants to

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be out and seen and heard. Sorry, the phrase

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that Taylor and I always use is see and be seen.

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is she wants to be the life of the party, but

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she also wants to see everything. And this creates

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complications for them because doing so as a

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woman means that you're going to have to be in

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the company of a man a lot of the times, right?

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She's not that outspoken, so she wants to be

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dancing with someone or going through these things

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with someone. The thing that kind of bothered

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me is that it's never really like, you know,

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we talk about these films having a misunderstanding

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where if only you two could have talked about

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this and figured it out. There wasn't really

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a scene for me that I caught where it was like,

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she was like, hey, I really want to do this.

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And he's like, no, I don't want to do that. I'm

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going to go out and look at this. Right. It was

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just more like two ships passing in the night.

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And then they just never really crossed over.

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I saw a lot of him inviting her, but not a lot

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of Fran inviting Sam. Yeah. And that introduction

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is enough to tell you here that I was a little

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split on this movie about halfway in. Because

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I think what the movie wants you to feel is they

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want you to see that these are two separate people

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who neither of them are in the wrong, but they

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are just moving away from each other. Right.

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And I think what the movie, at least for the

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first half, and I would argue a little into the

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second half too, I think this suffers from an

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issue of characterization. I think that this

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movie suffers from the Fran character. I think

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Sam seems pretty built out. And I like Sam a

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lot. I really enjoyed Walter Houston as Sam Dodsworth.

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Yes. And I enjoyed Ruth Chatterton as Fran. But

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she is more like... I'm trying to find the right

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way to put this. She is a freight train in this

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movie. And she is constantly moving towards something.

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But I felt that she was one of the most... Actually,

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I'm going to take that back. I think she's the

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most selfish character that we've talked about

00:12:01.809 --> 00:12:04.899
on this podcast so far. Interesting. And... When

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I say selfish, I don't just mean like, oh, yeah,

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she's just interested in this or whatever. I

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mean, every action, every impasse that they come

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at us as a couple comes from her own preference

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and even her own actions. Early on when they're

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on the cruise ship, she strikes up a conversation

00:12:20.000 --> 00:12:23.200
and a flirtation, admittedly, on her part with

00:12:23.200 --> 00:12:25.659
another man, the captain. And this is portrayed

00:12:25.659 --> 00:12:30.740
by Captain Lockhart by David Niven. Right. This

00:12:30.740 --> 00:12:34.039
innocent flirtation is mostly just dancing while

00:12:34.039 --> 00:12:36.879
her husband is on the deck looking at like, you

00:12:36.879 --> 00:12:39.940
know, everything there is to be seen. And she's

00:12:39.940 --> 00:12:42.159
flirting. They're having a good time. She goes

00:12:42.159 --> 00:12:44.700
back to like his room and they're talking and

00:12:44.700 --> 00:12:46.460
he kind of expects a little bit more out of the

00:12:46.460 --> 00:12:49.019
connection than she does, even though he is getting

00:12:49.019 --> 00:12:52.679
very close. And he has this accusation, kind

00:12:52.679 --> 00:12:54.740
of lightheartedly, but still an accusation of

00:12:54.740 --> 00:12:57.179
like, oh, this isn't really what you want. You're

00:12:57.179 --> 00:12:59.659
going to tease that you want this. But in reality.

00:13:00.200 --> 00:13:04.200
You just want like to be free. Right. And this

00:13:04.200 --> 00:13:07.759
accusation makes her feel like she can't go to

00:13:07.759 --> 00:13:09.879
England anymore because now this well -known

00:13:09.879 --> 00:13:12.100
captain is going to spread word about her and

00:13:12.100 --> 00:13:15.940
she can't fathom the idea, stand the idea of

00:13:15.940 --> 00:13:18.500
her being perceived this way by other people.

00:13:18.539 --> 00:13:21.730
So she then disrupts their entire plan. And it's

00:13:21.730 --> 00:13:23.370
no longer that we're going to England and enjoying

00:13:23.370 --> 00:13:26.210
ourselves and your retirement. It is now we have

00:13:26.210 --> 00:13:29.070
to go to Paris because I can't stand the idea

00:13:29.070 --> 00:13:31.549
of me making this mistake. But instead of trying

00:13:31.549 --> 00:13:33.529
to correct the mistake, it's avoiding it altogether.

00:13:34.070 --> 00:13:37.110
So that's only one instance of, I think, many

00:13:37.110 --> 00:13:39.850
that start showing her selfish nature of, well,

00:13:39.870 --> 00:13:42.169
hey, you did this. Like, you caused this. And

00:13:42.169 --> 00:13:44.110
now we have to pivot our plans because of your

00:13:44.110 --> 00:13:47.129
action. And there's much, much more to come.

00:13:47.190 --> 00:13:49.029
But I think that's the first planting of that

00:13:49.029 --> 00:13:53.090
seed. Just looking at these two characters, what

00:13:53.090 --> 00:13:56.750
do you think of the characterizations and the

00:13:56.750 --> 00:13:58.769
way they were portrayed up to this point? Well,

00:13:58.809 --> 00:14:01.690
I think that in the first half of the movie,

00:14:01.789 --> 00:14:04.970
I was really into how the movie was showing,

00:14:05.190 --> 00:14:07.909
like you said, two people just kind of growing

00:14:07.909 --> 00:14:12.250
apart. And while she is more active, I think,

00:14:12.250 --> 00:14:16.129
in that dismantling than Sam is, I don't think

00:14:16.129 --> 00:14:20.639
she's portrayed immediately as villainous. I'd

00:14:20.639 --> 00:14:22.759
agree with that. That comes later. It does. I

00:14:22.759 --> 00:14:25.480
think my perception of her shifted a lot as the

00:14:25.480 --> 00:14:29.639
movie went on. But even her dancing and flirting

00:14:29.639 --> 00:14:32.179
and being with David Niven, I wasn't immediately

00:14:32.179 --> 00:14:36.700
like, oh, well, she's being reckless and she's

00:14:36.700 --> 00:14:38.879
out talking to whoever and this, that, and the

00:14:38.879 --> 00:14:42.139
other thing. I was like, okay, these are two

00:14:42.139 --> 00:14:45.240
people. He wants to leave his job. He's made

00:14:45.240 --> 00:14:48.419
that choice. Before they even get on the ship

00:14:48.419 --> 00:14:50.340
and you see them like in home together, there's

00:14:50.340 --> 00:14:53.460
like a minor moment where they bicker a little

00:14:53.460 --> 00:14:55.759
bit, but it's very lighthearted. And then friends

00:14:55.759 --> 00:15:00.039
come over to see them off to the ship in England.

00:15:00.559 --> 00:15:02.940
And they kind of like shoo them away. They end

00:15:02.940 --> 00:15:06.820
up offending them or kicking them out. And Sam

00:15:06.820 --> 00:15:09.659
and Fran, that scene ends with them like in love.

00:15:09.919 --> 00:15:13.639
They look very happy in love. So I really enjoyed

00:15:13.639 --> 00:15:17.320
how it felt like. Oh, they love each other, but

00:15:17.320 --> 00:15:19.460
there's something there that they can both kind

00:15:19.460 --> 00:15:22.700
of feel. And they're not—they're both trying

00:15:22.700 --> 00:15:24.860
to make choices for themselves. Sam wants to

00:15:24.860 --> 00:15:27.399
go to England. Fran wants to live a different

00:15:27.399 --> 00:15:30.259
lifestyle, but they're not ready to, like, speak

00:15:30.259 --> 00:15:33.899
that to each other. I was into that. I liked

00:15:33.899 --> 00:15:36.399
both of them at the start of this movie. I think

00:15:36.399 --> 00:15:39.259
I was—I'm in the same boat as you were, not intentional

00:15:39.259 --> 00:15:42.460
with the cruise of it all. I— The only thing

00:15:42.460 --> 00:15:45.620
is, I mean, I agree with you that it wasn't villainous.

00:15:45.620 --> 00:15:47.700
It wasn't portrayed as villainous here. I was

00:15:47.700 --> 00:15:50.820
annoyed by it. And like it was an annoying thing

00:15:50.820 --> 00:15:52.519
that she had to do. But that's in the character.

00:15:52.759 --> 00:15:54.720
You're right that the villainous like intention

00:15:54.720 --> 00:15:56.700
kind of comes later with some of the things that

00:15:56.700 --> 00:15:59.159
are to come. But even like, you know, this wasn't

00:15:59.159 --> 00:16:00.759
like something that she's hiding and she can't

00:16:00.759 --> 00:16:02.919
tell like Sam that she was, you know, I think

00:16:02.919 --> 00:16:06.360
other films, dare I say lesser films, would dare

00:16:06.360 --> 00:16:09.169
to just. Instead of her having the conversation

00:16:09.169 --> 00:16:11.350
with him, it would be something she hides, a

00:16:11.350 --> 00:16:13.590
shame that she has. It's not a shame that she

00:16:13.590 --> 00:16:15.389
has for other people to perceive her this way,

00:16:15.429 --> 00:16:17.330
but for her husband to perceive this way. But

00:16:17.330 --> 00:16:20.009
in reality, she's so close with her husband that

00:16:20.009 --> 00:16:22.169
almost without saying it, he's like, oh, you

00:16:22.169 --> 00:16:24.149
let this guy on, right? And he doesn't say it

00:16:24.149 --> 00:16:25.669
in an annoyed, like, how could you do this to

00:16:25.669 --> 00:16:27.450
me? But more like, oh, that happened, didn't

00:16:27.450 --> 00:16:32.330
it? And she's like, yes, but I can't be perceived

00:16:32.330 --> 00:16:35.169
this way. We can't let this happen. And he takes

00:16:35.169 --> 00:16:36.919
it really well. He's like, yeah, you know, I

00:16:36.919 --> 00:16:39.000
know nothing was ever going to happen, but he

00:16:39.000 --> 00:16:40.500
doesn't know that. So, of course, he's going

00:16:40.500 --> 00:16:42.700
to feel that way. And it was very level -headed.

00:16:42.820 --> 00:16:45.639
And it made me like Sam a lot. I really enjoyed

00:16:45.639 --> 00:16:48.559
Walter Houston in this. We haven't seen him pop

00:16:48.559 --> 00:16:51.740
up before, have we? No. Not in the major way,

00:16:51.759 --> 00:16:54.500
at least. Yeah. I really enjoyed his performance

00:16:54.500 --> 00:16:57.639
here. I think that a lot of the first half of

00:16:57.639 --> 00:17:00.259
this movie is kind of him having to be almost

00:17:00.259 --> 00:17:04.359
like a reconciliator. with his relationship and

00:17:04.359 --> 00:17:06.480
his wife. And then I think we see him take some

00:17:06.480 --> 00:17:08.259
more agency in the second half, and that's where

00:17:08.259 --> 00:17:10.960
I think he really shines. But he's doing a really

00:17:10.960 --> 00:17:13.140
good job in this. And for as much as I didn't

00:17:13.140 --> 00:17:16.099
like her character, I do think that the performance

00:17:16.099 --> 00:17:19.000
by Ruth Chatterton is pretty undeniable in that

00:17:19.000 --> 00:17:21.160
sense. But I do want to talk about something

00:17:21.160 --> 00:17:23.920
here, and it's that I did some research, and

00:17:23.920 --> 00:17:27.079
I guess there are some disagreements between

00:17:27.079 --> 00:17:30.230
Chatterton and Weiler. The director, William

00:17:30.230 --> 00:17:33.509
Wyler. There was some disagreements on the characterization

00:17:33.509 --> 00:17:38.470
of Fran. And specifically, I know Mary Astor.

00:17:38.470 --> 00:17:40.230
We haven't talked about her yet. Edith Courtright.

00:17:40.910 --> 00:17:44.849
She is a friend of both the Doddsworths here.

00:17:44.990 --> 00:17:48.250
No, I'm so sorry. Edith Courtright is the individual

00:17:48.250 --> 00:17:51.250
that we are introduced to later. Right. Correct.

00:17:51.390 --> 00:17:54.700
Okay. It's kind of Sam's. Interest. Interest,

00:17:54.700 --> 00:17:56.759
yeah. That we'll get to in a little bit. Kind

00:17:56.759 --> 00:17:59.160
of a jarring thing to say right now without talking

00:17:59.160 --> 00:18:01.079
about what happens in between. Right. But a later

00:18:01.079 --> 00:18:04.339
interest introduced is Edith Courtright. So Mary

00:18:04.339 --> 00:18:07.539
Astor, a really, by the way, we don't have a

00:18:07.539 --> 00:18:10.180
lot of time to get into this, but a fascinating

00:18:10.180 --> 00:18:12.759
individual to read about, about the set of this.

00:18:12.880 --> 00:18:15.220
She was going through a custody battle at the

00:18:15.220 --> 00:18:17.839
time of this. Yeah. And one of the only supports

00:18:17.839 --> 00:18:20.539
she had was Ruth Chatterton. So she and Ruth

00:18:20.539 --> 00:18:23.049
got very close. Yeah, I read that. She would

00:18:23.049 --> 00:18:25.950
work on set during the day and then at night

00:18:25.950 --> 00:18:27.710
she would go to court and Ruth would accompany

00:18:27.710 --> 00:18:30.450
her. That's right. Just crazy. Crazy. Absolutely

00:18:30.450 --> 00:18:33.410
nuts. So in this, they got very close. Mary Astor

00:18:33.410 --> 00:18:37.049
did write a novel or a biography about this later

00:18:37.049 --> 00:18:40.990
on. And in it, she wrote memoir is what I was

00:18:40.990 --> 00:18:43.569
looking for. In it, she wrote that Ruth Chatterton

00:18:43.569 --> 00:18:46.670
was hanging on to youth. Right. She was worried

00:18:46.670 --> 00:18:49.269
about getting older and she was really hanging

00:18:49.269 --> 00:18:51.369
on to the idea of like what it was to be younger.

00:18:52.169 --> 00:18:54.910
And she saw that in Fran and the characterization

00:18:54.910 --> 00:18:57.289
of Fran. So she really played that very strongly.

00:18:57.589 --> 00:19:00.549
There's a line early in the movie where she talks

00:19:00.549 --> 00:19:02.990
about like, you know, maybe it's halfway through.

00:19:03.289 --> 00:19:05.069
She mentioned something about like, you know,

00:19:05.109 --> 00:19:08.349
God forbid they mistake me for 30 or even 25.

00:19:08.769 --> 00:19:11.410
Right. And she's really trying to play that up,

00:19:11.490 --> 00:19:14.529
which there's a great, I believe there's a great

00:19:14.529 --> 00:19:17.130
reception or a great reaction from Sam where

00:19:17.130 --> 00:19:22.809
he's like, what? 25. Anyways, Wyler wanted to

00:19:22.809 --> 00:19:25.289
sympathize with Fran. He wanted the audience

00:19:25.289 --> 00:19:29.049
to be able to sympathize with Fran. But Ruth

00:19:29.049 --> 00:19:31.750
really wanted to play her more like a villainess.

00:19:32.170 --> 00:19:34.589
Interesting. And I'm interested in your thoughts

00:19:34.589 --> 00:19:37.549
on this, but my perception is that... Ruth Chatterton

00:19:37.549 --> 00:19:40.950
got away with this way more than Weiler did in

00:19:40.950 --> 00:19:47.089
the sympathetic sense. I didn't see Fran as very

00:19:47.089 --> 00:19:49.769
sympathetic throughout the second half. The first

00:19:49.769 --> 00:19:51.670
half of what you and I have discussed, I do.

00:19:52.109 --> 00:19:53.950
It's a little selfish, but I do see like, you

00:19:53.950 --> 00:19:55.769
know, okay, we're sympathizing with her a little

00:19:55.769 --> 00:19:59.230
bit here. But in her actions, we continue to

00:19:59.230 --> 00:20:02.450
see that I think personally that Ruth won out

00:20:02.450 --> 00:20:04.849
a little bit more and played her more villainous

00:20:04.849 --> 00:20:07.509
than she did sympathize. Yeah, and I agree that

00:20:07.509 --> 00:20:10.009
that is more evident in the second half of the

00:20:10.009 --> 00:20:12.390
movie. And I think it's kind of unfortunate because

00:20:12.390 --> 00:20:16.390
it's a much more interesting movie if it is her.

00:20:17.099 --> 00:20:21.000
I mean, it's the 1930s. If a woman wants a divorce

00:20:21.000 --> 00:20:24.180
from her husband, it's not an easy thing to do.

00:20:24.339 --> 00:20:28.400
It's very complicated. So I try and think of

00:20:28.400 --> 00:20:33.779
Fran as being in this unhappy marriage, and she's

00:20:33.779 --> 00:20:36.740
coming to terms with her age and her lifestyle,

00:20:36.839 --> 00:20:39.799
and she's kind of been riding the coattails of

00:20:39.799 --> 00:20:41.660
her husband throughout his successful career

00:20:41.660 --> 00:20:44.990
as an automobile manufacturer. And that's got

00:20:44.990 --> 00:20:46.849
to be difficult, you know, to come to terms with

00:20:46.849 --> 00:20:49.150
all of that. So I think it's a much more interesting

00:20:49.150 --> 00:20:51.849
story when you are able to be more sympathetic

00:20:51.849 --> 00:20:55.130
with that character. But I do think, especially

00:20:55.130 --> 00:20:58.529
towards the second half, she does lean much more

00:20:58.529 --> 00:21:00.910
villainous. And she starts doing things that

00:21:00.910 --> 00:21:05.410
are just blatantly obvious, especially when Sam,

00:21:05.549 --> 00:21:09.410
like, proposes a divorce and she is against it.

00:21:09.470 --> 00:21:12.079
I think at that point, it's like. hey, this is

00:21:12.079 --> 00:21:14.740
kind of what you want, and now you're almost

00:21:14.740 --> 00:21:19.240
like playing both sides of the field. Yeah, and

00:21:19.240 --> 00:21:21.220
you know, we've talked about movies, whether

00:21:21.220 --> 00:21:23.980
on the pod or just you and I off pod, where I

00:21:23.980 --> 00:21:26.500
feel like the way that characters are played

00:21:26.500 --> 00:21:29.380
by certain actors do turn me off the movie altogether,

00:21:29.619 --> 00:21:30.980
and I'm going to say, okay, well, it just wasn't

00:21:30.980 --> 00:21:33.690
effective. I'm going to continue to have issues

00:21:33.690 --> 00:21:37.630
with the characterization of Ruth. And I feel

00:21:37.630 --> 00:21:39.849
like the movie, you can feel the push and pull

00:21:39.849 --> 00:21:42.829
of Wyler really wants her to be sympathetic,

00:21:42.930 --> 00:21:45.049
but Ruth is just going to continue to play her

00:21:45.049 --> 00:21:47.309
as a villainess. Yeah. I think you can feel the

00:21:47.309 --> 00:21:50.170
push and pull of that. But even with that being

00:21:50.170 --> 00:21:51.950
the case, and I think that's throughout the movie,

00:21:52.089 --> 00:21:54.990
especially the first half, I want to say that

00:21:54.990 --> 00:21:57.529
this is a fascinating look at a relationship.

00:21:57.890 --> 00:22:00.410
It is. And this is not one that is full of, I

00:22:00.410 --> 00:22:02.329
mean, there is some melodrama, but it's not like

00:22:02.329 --> 00:22:05.849
misunderstandings and a comedy of errors. There

00:22:05.849 --> 00:22:09.609
is very little humor in this movie. It is pretty

00:22:09.609 --> 00:22:12.630
stark. Yeah. And I think that's really interesting.

00:22:12.910 --> 00:22:15.309
This is kind of unbelievable that this came out

00:22:15.309 --> 00:22:18.789
in 1936. Especially with the theming, like there's

00:22:18.789 --> 00:22:21.809
infidelity all over this movie. There's quite

00:22:21.809 --> 00:22:25.890
a bit of, what would you call it? Indecency,

00:22:26.029 --> 00:22:29.869
like implied at different moments. Implied is

00:22:29.869 --> 00:22:31.730
a really interesting word here because I think

00:22:31.730 --> 00:22:34.769
that's up into now what we would see. We talked

00:22:34.769 --> 00:22:36.490
a lot about like, well, you know, at this point,

00:22:36.509 --> 00:22:38.849
if anything is suggested, we take that as that's

00:22:38.849 --> 00:22:41.470
happened. Sure. And production code, we feel

00:22:41.470 --> 00:22:43.170
like that's just a straight up, like that's not

00:22:43.170 --> 00:22:45.069
going to be mentioned anymore. I think this is

00:22:45.069 --> 00:22:48.500
the, this movie. Dodsworth is the first time

00:22:48.500 --> 00:22:52.180
that we have actually seen a jump to the phrase

00:22:52.180 --> 00:22:56.220
make love. Okay. Yeah. Because we're jumping

00:22:56.220 --> 00:23:00.240
ahead here. But at one point, Ruth finds herself

00:23:00.240 --> 00:23:04.920
with a individual. Oh, what was his name? Arnold

00:23:04.920 --> 00:23:07.019
Iceland. Thank you. I even wrote him down here.

00:23:07.079 --> 00:23:08.619
Why didn't I see that? Portrayed by Paul Lucas.

00:23:08.720 --> 00:23:10.500
Thank you so much. So she finds herself with

00:23:10.500 --> 00:23:13.640
Arnold Iceland. While they're in France, we see

00:23:13.640 --> 00:23:16.299
Sam saying, I'm just not happy. We got to go

00:23:16.299 --> 00:23:17.960
back home. And she's like, well, I want to stay

00:23:17.960 --> 00:23:19.980
here. So why don't I just stay here and take

00:23:19.980 --> 00:23:22.240
in the sights by myself, just me, solo, no one

00:23:22.240 --> 00:23:25.829
else. And you head home and it'll be okay. And

00:23:25.829 --> 00:23:28.130
she's already met Arnold at this point. So she

00:23:28.130 --> 00:23:29.789
has an idea of what's going to happen here. He

00:23:29.789 --> 00:23:32.529
doesn't. And he agrees to go home. So she enjoys

00:23:32.529 --> 00:23:35.450
the company of Arnold Iceland in France while

00:23:35.450 --> 00:23:38.150
he heads home and kind of realizes how much of

00:23:38.150 --> 00:23:41.609
his life was dependent on Fran. And while he's

00:23:41.609 --> 00:23:43.410
doing this, she's living the life with Arnold

00:23:43.410 --> 00:23:46.609
Iceland. And he knows that she's married. She

00:23:46.609 --> 00:23:48.710
knows that she's married. And she gets a letter

00:23:48.710 --> 00:23:51.509
from her husband. And there is a... I kind of

00:23:51.509 --> 00:23:52.930
want to say beautiful scene, even though I hate

00:23:52.930 --> 00:23:55.250
the implication of it, where she receives a letter.

00:23:55.390 --> 00:23:57.650
He says like, hey, you got to read it. He's kind

00:23:57.650 --> 00:24:01.210
of like a very emotional scoundrel. Yes. Where

00:24:01.210 --> 00:24:02.710
he's like, hey, we can move forward with this

00:24:02.710 --> 00:24:04.190
affair and everything, but you should read that

00:24:04.190 --> 00:24:06.430
letter from your husband. Yes. Because it's probably

00:24:06.430 --> 00:24:08.009
important for you to make amends with what we're

00:24:08.009 --> 00:24:10.930
about to do. And she does. And then he helps

00:24:10.930 --> 00:24:14.190
her burn it. And there's a great scene where

00:24:14.190 --> 00:24:17.920
you can see the letter being burnt. And there's

00:24:17.920 --> 00:24:21.859
no kid gloves, no safety way of doing this. She

00:24:21.859 --> 00:24:24.400
is holding the letter. He pulls out a lighter,

00:24:24.500 --> 00:24:26.819
lights it, and then they gently just let it go.

00:24:26.960 --> 00:24:29.180
I know this scene was taken multiple times because

00:24:29.180 --> 00:24:31.180
Wyler wanted to get it kind of like dancing through

00:24:31.180 --> 00:24:34.500
the wind. Yeah. And he gets it the best way he

00:24:34.500 --> 00:24:36.200
could have without being able to control this.

00:24:36.339 --> 00:24:38.180
But it's a great scene of it kind of like flowing

00:24:38.180 --> 00:24:40.660
in the wind and a representative of their marriage

00:24:40.660 --> 00:24:43.460
of like burnt and then like left behind completely.

00:24:43.539 --> 00:24:46.839
Yeah. But it's this scene. where Paul Lucas'

00:24:47.039 --> 00:24:50.980
Arnold Iceland mentions, like, you know, I will

00:24:50.980 --> 00:24:53.819
make love to you. And, like, there's no hinting

00:24:53.819 --> 00:24:55.920
anymore. Right. There's no, hey, I've enjoyed

00:24:55.920 --> 00:24:58.299
being here with you. He says the phrase that

00:24:58.299 --> 00:25:01.440
he's going to make love to her. And to my recollection,

00:25:01.460 --> 00:25:03.019
this is the first time that we've heard this

00:25:03.019 --> 00:25:05.220
really embraced in that way. Yeah, I don't recall

00:25:05.220 --> 00:25:07.579
it being that blatant. There's a lot of, like,

00:25:07.619 --> 00:25:10.039
being together. I'm trying to think of different

00:25:10.039 --> 00:25:11.940
phrases that were used, but nothing that blatant,

00:25:11.940 --> 00:25:13.920
you're right. We had breakfast this morning,

00:25:14.019 --> 00:25:15.799
if you know what that means. Bringing back the

00:25:15.799 --> 00:25:18.160
Ernst Lubitsch of it all. Exactly, yeah. No,

00:25:18.259 --> 00:25:22.039
that's a great point, and I think that is an

00:25:22.039 --> 00:25:24.660
example of, like, how serious this movie is.

00:25:24.839 --> 00:25:27.660
They don't dance around any of these ideas. They

00:25:27.660 --> 00:25:31.250
are definitely happening. Before we move on from

00:25:31.250 --> 00:25:33.269
that scene, I want to point out, correct me if

00:25:33.269 --> 00:25:35.170
I'm wrong, but when she reads the letter, they

00:25:35.170 --> 00:25:37.710
don't show the contents of the letter on screen

00:25:37.710 --> 00:25:40.950
for you to read. Yes. It's just her reading the

00:25:40.950 --> 00:25:44.910
letter. That's correct. I love that so much because

00:25:44.910 --> 00:25:47.630
you don't have to know what it says. It is a

00:25:47.630 --> 00:25:51.349
rare opportunity in these early sound movies

00:25:51.349 --> 00:25:55.210
where they're not hearkening back to the silent

00:25:55.210 --> 00:25:56.970
picture days where they say, okay, now there's

00:25:56.970 --> 00:25:59.900
text on screen and you read it. Ironically, I

00:25:59.900 --> 00:26:02.079
miss from movies a little bit in the modern sense.

00:26:02.640 --> 00:26:05.140
But you get to see her read this letter and react.

00:26:05.380 --> 00:26:08.839
And there's a good pause where it's like 10 to

00:26:08.839 --> 00:26:11.819
15 seconds of her reading this letter in real

00:26:11.819 --> 00:26:14.940
time. And you just get to sit there with her

00:26:14.940 --> 00:26:17.480
and her emotions. You don't know what it says

00:26:17.480 --> 00:26:20.119
for sure, but deep down, you know what it says.

00:26:21.130 --> 00:26:23.789
I love that scene, even more so than the burning

00:26:23.789 --> 00:26:25.910
of the letter. I loved her reading the letter.

00:26:26.029 --> 00:26:28.170
Yeah, this was great. And there's a little bit

00:26:28.170 --> 00:26:31.450
of a hint from Arnold who has read the letter.

00:26:31.529 --> 00:26:33.690
Right. Right. He's read it and he kind of needs

00:26:33.690 --> 00:26:35.509
her to be able to make peace with this and read

00:26:35.509 --> 00:26:39.450
it. And so there's an implication that her husband

00:26:39.450 --> 00:26:41.529
is reaching out saying like, hey, I miss you.

00:26:41.630 --> 00:26:44.589
Like, I wish you were home. How are things? When

00:26:44.589 --> 00:26:46.890
are you coming back? And for her, she can take

00:26:46.890 --> 00:26:50.049
this and it's. not clear to us but we get an

00:26:50.049 --> 00:26:52.890
idea that this is a oh well i need to continue

00:26:52.890 --> 00:26:56.390
to be here and that is her active decision although

00:26:56.390 --> 00:26:58.529
i would argue she's already decided this in her

00:26:58.529 --> 00:27:01.589
head this is her like full declaration of i'm

00:27:01.589 --> 00:27:04.910
going to be in this relationship and she embraces

00:27:04.910 --> 00:27:07.849
with arnold and the letter falls to the wayside

00:27:07.849 --> 00:27:12.210
and we see a surprise visit from sam after this

00:27:12.210 --> 00:27:16.160
where he comes to visit fran and This part's

00:27:16.160 --> 00:27:18.200
a little muddy for me. I will admit that I think

00:27:18.200 --> 00:27:20.059
I may have just missed a scene or two, but it

00:27:20.059 --> 00:27:23.119
sounds like there was a co -worker from the company

00:27:23.119 --> 00:27:26.960
that Sam had, the automobile company. And he

00:27:26.960 --> 00:27:29.759
said, hey, I've seen your wife with another man,

00:27:29.960 --> 00:27:32.440
this Arnold Iceland guy. You might want to look

00:27:32.440 --> 00:27:36.160
into this. And he then goes back to France, surprises

00:27:36.160 --> 00:27:38.799
her, and not just surprises her with his appearance,

00:27:38.940 --> 00:27:41.200
but surprises her with also inviting Arnold.

00:27:42.090 --> 00:27:44.589
And the three of them have a conversation. And

00:27:44.589 --> 00:27:46.829
I will say that this is when the movie for me

00:27:46.829 --> 00:27:49.170
was like solidified and how fascinating it was,

00:27:49.210 --> 00:27:51.069
is that it was not one of those movies where

00:27:51.069 --> 00:27:52.750
it's like, when I get my hands on this guy, I'm

00:27:52.750 --> 00:27:55.690
going to absolutely destroy him. This was a completely

00:27:55.690 --> 00:28:00.170
like cordial, like communicative sequence where

00:28:00.170 --> 00:28:04.009
Sam was not interested in destroying anyone or,

00:28:04.089 --> 00:28:06.250
hey, you got to fix this right now. He was like,

00:28:06.289 --> 00:28:08.710
we got to sort this out. And he invites Arnold

00:28:08.710 --> 00:28:11.089
and the three of them, instead of like yelling

00:28:11.089 --> 00:28:13.829
at each other, are like standing slash sitting.

00:28:13.910 --> 00:28:17.130
I think she's sitting. But Arnold and Sam are

00:28:17.130 --> 00:28:19.569
standing and they don't have a conversation in

00:28:19.569 --> 00:28:20.910
front of her. It's like the three of them are

00:28:20.910 --> 00:28:22.710
having a conversation. And I thought this was

00:28:22.710 --> 00:28:24.170
honestly, I didn't know if this was going to

00:28:24.170 --> 00:28:26.569
go into like a polygamy type thing, like a conversation

00:28:26.569 --> 00:28:28.730
of them discussing that. But like it was a very

00:28:28.730 --> 00:28:33.210
open conversation of him being like, look. clearly

00:28:33.210 --> 00:28:35.309
I've caught you in this. Like you've lied about

00:28:35.309 --> 00:28:37.130
this. You're lying about it right now, but clearly

00:28:37.130 --> 00:28:39.269
I've caught you in it. And we got to figure this

00:28:39.269 --> 00:28:40.809
out. This is where you mentioned, he's like,

00:28:40.869 --> 00:28:42.769
do we just need a divorce? What do we need in

00:28:42.769 --> 00:28:46.109
this? And she then kind of goes back to this

00:28:46.109 --> 00:28:47.710
selfish thing of like, oh, I don't know what

00:28:47.710 --> 00:28:50.730
I was thinking. Yes, you were. It didn't really

00:28:50.730 --> 00:28:53.509
mean anything. Yes, it did. Like we know that

00:28:53.509 --> 00:28:55.369
she's not telling the truth about this. Maybe

00:28:55.369 --> 00:28:58.470
she's trying to convince herself. But then this,

00:28:58.549 --> 00:29:01.109
to me, immediately switches back over to the

00:29:01.109 --> 00:29:04.130
selfishness of she and Sam get a little closer.

00:29:04.170 --> 00:29:06.009
And he's like, by the way, we're going to be

00:29:06.009 --> 00:29:08.470
grandparents. And she's elated at this news.

00:29:08.529 --> 00:29:10.529
She's so happy to hear, like, you know, my baby's

00:29:10.529 --> 00:29:12.349
having a baby. Like, we got to be there. We got

00:29:12.349 --> 00:29:15.569
to go back home for. And I think he mentions,

00:29:15.650 --> 00:29:18.160
I think Sam mentions. You're taking the news

00:29:18.160 --> 00:29:20.619
of like being a grandmother really well or something.

00:29:20.660 --> 00:29:23.079
He reminds her that this doesn't just mean that

00:29:23.079 --> 00:29:26.359
she has her baby's having a baby, but that she's

00:29:26.359 --> 00:29:28.559
going to be a grandmother. Right. And it's when

00:29:28.559 --> 00:29:30.880
he kind of introduces this idea to her that you

00:29:30.880 --> 00:29:33.400
see her kind of like almost like a possession.

00:29:34.119 --> 00:29:36.119
taking over of like the realization of getting

00:29:36.119 --> 00:29:38.500
older. Right. And this is where I think Ruth

00:29:38.500 --> 00:29:41.440
is really channeling what Mary Astor brings up

00:29:41.440 --> 00:29:44.960
in that memoir in that she is leaning very heavily

00:29:44.960 --> 00:29:47.519
into the age and like the idea of getting older.

00:29:47.640 --> 00:29:51.180
Yeah. And this woman who has just exclaimed how

00:29:51.180 --> 00:29:53.839
excited she is to be with her daughter and support

00:29:53.839 --> 00:29:56.920
her daughter in this actively decides that she

00:29:56.920 --> 00:29:59.470
is not going to go back home. Right. And she

00:29:59.470 --> 00:30:02.109
is going to continue to stay away from home to

00:30:02.109 --> 00:30:05.950
avoid being seen as a woman of age that can be

00:30:05.950 --> 00:30:10.069
a grandmother. Yeah. That whole scene is very

00:30:10.069 --> 00:30:14.390
heartbreaking. It is. And I do really like how

00:30:14.390 --> 00:30:17.490
it doesn't turn into like a yelling match. It's

00:30:17.490 --> 00:30:20.750
interesting. There is like a good bit of yelling

00:30:20.750 --> 00:30:23.650
in this movie from Sam. Oh, yeah. To a point

00:30:23.650 --> 00:30:27.089
where there's a noise complaint. Right. Oh, man.

00:30:27.309 --> 00:30:29.309
What a good scene when they're having that conversation

00:30:29.309 --> 00:30:34.950
in the hotel room. And every argument in this

00:30:34.950 --> 00:30:38.049
movie, I think, is what solidifies this as such

00:30:38.049 --> 00:30:41.789
a grounded, real experience for me. Because when

00:30:41.789 --> 00:30:45.630
he gets that noise complaint, like, he's raising

00:30:45.630 --> 00:30:47.549
his voice, he's yelling, and then he goes to

00:30:47.549 --> 00:30:49.470
the phone, he answers it, hangs up, and he's

00:30:49.470 --> 00:30:50.950
like, we got a noise complaint. And she's like,

00:30:51.029 --> 00:30:53.950
great. And then they're whispering to each other.

00:30:54.359 --> 00:30:56.279
And they're still, like, arguing. And this is

00:30:56.279 --> 00:30:58.759
what I love about Walter Houston's performance.

00:30:58.900 --> 00:31:01.000
Maybe it's just the characterization of Sam Dodsworth.

00:31:01.579 --> 00:31:05.900
And I think it's something I recollect or I relate

00:31:05.900 --> 00:31:09.579
to in that he gets off the phone and there's

00:31:09.579 --> 00:31:11.140
no, like, what do you mean noise complaint? Like,

00:31:11.140 --> 00:31:12.599
he's not mad at this guy. He's like, okay, heard,

00:31:12.720 --> 00:31:15.000
understood. Yeah. Hangs up. He comes over and

00:31:15.000 --> 00:31:17.160
he's not like, so to be continued tomorrow or,

00:31:17.200 --> 00:31:18.980
you know, let's get out of here and talk about

00:31:18.980 --> 00:31:21.819
this. He's like, all right, so. obviously it's

00:31:21.819 --> 00:31:23.420
important we continue this conversation. So why

00:31:23.420 --> 00:31:25.059
don't we do it in like a more mild manner? Like,

00:31:25.160 --> 00:31:28.160
you know, us talking like this. And in more or

00:31:28.160 --> 00:31:30.440
less words, he says that. It's not just like,

00:31:30.539 --> 00:31:32.839
okay, so tell me what's going on. So the fact

00:31:32.839 --> 00:31:35.019
that he's like staying here, he's not like getting

00:31:35.019 --> 00:31:36.859
too emotional about like, you've cheated on me.

00:31:36.920 --> 00:31:38.240
You've done this. Like, how could you do this?

00:31:38.500 --> 00:31:40.079
He's more like, all right, let's figure this

00:31:40.079 --> 00:31:42.200
out. Like he is committed and he wants to make

00:31:42.200 --> 00:31:44.480
this work. And that's what makes this so frustrating

00:31:44.480 --> 00:31:47.470
of a watch. And not in, like, a bad way. But

00:31:47.470 --> 00:31:49.250
it's frustrating because you see this man who

00:31:49.250 --> 00:31:51.869
is, like, clearly trying to make this work. Even

00:31:51.869 --> 00:31:54.349
in his wife's infidelity. You can say that, like,

00:31:54.430 --> 00:31:56.289
he had a hand in whatever and, like, not being

00:31:56.289 --> 00:31:58.009
available to his wife and dancing or whatever.

00:31:58.329 --> 00:32:00.890
But, like, he's trying to make it work. And she

00:32:00.890 --> 00:32:04.509
is just defying any chance of opportunity. Sure.

00:32:05.450 --> 00:32:07.869
Man, even after all of that, I still am very

00:32:07.869 --> 00:32:11.670
sympathetic to Fran. That's interesting. But

00:32:11.670 --> 00:32:14.539
this was about... I think this was very close

00:32:14.539 --> 00:32:17.000
to no point of a point of no return. Yeah. Well,

00:32:17.059 --> 00:32:19.019
I don't think we're there just yet. The phone

00:32:19.019 --> 00:32:21.960
incident is earlier in the movie than when she

00:32:21.960 --> 00:32:26.380
is discovered with Arnold. Yes. So I think at

00:32:26.380 --> 00:32:28.119
the Arnold thing, that's when I'm like, okay,

00:32:28.200 --> 00:32:31.380
this is, this is like the last straw and things

00:32:31.380 --> 00:32:34.559
need to change now. And it's when she says, well,

00:32:34.599 --> 00:32:36.660
I'm not going back home that I was like. Okay.

00:32:36.660 --> 00:32:39.539
Well then, then you need to like move forward

00:32:39.539 --> 00:32:41.819
with that then, you know? So maybe that was the

00:32:41.819 --> 00:32:45.339
moment where I was like, okay, it's, it is selfish,

00:32:45.400 --> 00:32:48.299
but I'm still understanding of why you need to.

00:32:48.859 --> 00:32:52.160
be away but then you have to like cut ties you

00:32:52.160 --> 00:32:54.359
have to say okay we will get divorced and like

00:32:54.359 --> 00:32:57.640
i will live my life yes or you know to me even

00:32:57.640 --> 00:32:59.759
i was like even if you decide this you have to

00:32:59.759 --> 00:33:01.500
have a conversation with your daughter yes and

00:33:01.500 --> 00:33:03.259
you need to like tell her all of this but it

00:33:03.259 --> 00:33:05.680
is implied that she does not have communication

00:33:05.680 --> 00:33:08.859
at home and it is just sam relaying all this

00:33:08.859 --> 00:33:11.900
over to their daughter this is a good time to

00:33:11.900 --> 00:33:14.660
mention that earlier on uh on that cruise ship

00:33:14.660 --> 00:33:16.779
when they're going to england when fran was having

00:33:16.779 --> 00:33:19.839
this run -in with captain lockhart We saw that

00:33:19.839 --> 00:33:21.819
Sam, while he's trying to enjoy everything about

00:33:21.819 --> 00:33:23.920
what's happening around him and more intellectual

00:33:23.920 --> 00:33:27.960
talk, he comes into contact with someone named

00:33:27.960 --> 00:33:30.859
Edith Courtright. Now, this is portrayed by Mary

00:33:30.859 --> 00:33:33.519
Astor, as we mentioned previously. And she is

00:33:33.519 --> 00:33:39.059
a widower or divorcee? Divorcee. She's a divorcee.

00:33:39.180 --> 00:33:42.480
And they have a conversation. It is innocent.

00:33:42.619 --> 00:33:44.799
You can see that there's a connection being built.

00:33:44.900 --> 00:33:49.589
But there is no... pursue between the two of

00:33:49.589 --> 00:33:51.890
them right there is no hey we should continue

00:33:51.890 --> 00:33:54.089
this and like make this work she mentions where

00:33:54.089 --> 00:33:57.430
she lives and he notes this but there's never

00:33:57.430 --> 00:34:00.130
like a longing on his part afterwards of like

00:34:00.130 --> 00:34:03.279
oh i should have done this instead and Later

00:34:03.279 --> 00:34:07.740
on, when we see, like, you know, that Fran has

00:34:07.740 --> 00:34:10.199
decided to, like, stay and not go back home,

00:34:10.340 --> 00:34:13.579
we see that Sam says, well, I want to travel

00:34:13.579 --> 00:34:15.300
and I want to get around. So why don't I try

00:34:15.300 --> 00:34:17.820
traveling and see what this is like? And we see

00:34:17.820 --> 00:34:20.860
him traveling on his own. We see him not having

00:34:20.860 --> 00:34:23.219
a partner and not seeking a partner from anyone,

00:34:23.340 --> 00:34:25.920
but just traveling. And in this, he ends up,

00:34:25.940 --> 00:34:29.889
I think, is it Italy? Oh, I forget where he ends

00:34:29.889 --> 00:34:32.510
up, if I'm honest. It's definitely like surrounded

00:34:32.510 --> 00:34:35.530
by water. So I don't know why, but for some reason,

00:34:35.550 --> 00:34:37.050
I'm like, it's either Greece or Italy. I think

00:34:37.050 --> 00:34:41.250
it's Italy. But he ends up running into Edith.

00:34:41.429 --> 00:34:43.630
And he and Edith have a conversation and they

00:34:43.630 --> 00:34:45.929
start enjoying the company of each other more

00:34:45.929 --> 00:34:49.449
and more. And I think this is the dichotomy between

00:34:49.449 --> 00:34:54.159
the two of we see. fran rushing into all these

00:34:54.159 --> 00:34:56.579
relationships to where it's not like hey the

00:34:56.579 --> 00:34:58.519
two of us are in love it's more we are in this

00:34:58.519 --> 00:35:01.519
moment together and that's it where i think that

00:35:01.519 --> 00:35:05.099
we see sam and edith as much more of a genuine

00:35:05.099 --> 00:35:07.679
connection right and they find themselves like

00:35:07.679 --> 00:35:10.119
oh are we is this going to happen like do we

00:35:10.119 --> 00:35:12.599
need to like look into doing this but at this

00:35:12.599 --> 00:35:14.239
point he's embraced that even though he doesn't

00:35:14.239 --> 00:35:17.599
have a full divorce um or no i'm so sorry he

00:35:17.599 --> 00:35:20.860
does have a we skipped a thing There's a character

00:35:20.860 --> 00:35:25.539
named Kurt von Oberstdorf. Gregory Gay is the

00:35:25.539 --> 00:35:28.619
actor behind him. And we'll skip through this

00:35:28.619 --> 00:35:31.019
pretty quickly. That is an individual that Fran

00:35:31.019 --> 00:35:32.699
starts hanging out with to see more. Her next

00:35:32.699 --> 00:35:36.260
man. Her next man, really, yeah. And at one point,

00:35:36.280 --> 00:35:39.380
he proposes. And he says, hey. I really want

00:35:39.380 --> 00:35:40.980
to get together. I think this is something we

00:35:40.980 --> 00:35:43.239
should do. She doesn't take it very seriously

00:35:43.239 --> 00:35:46.320
at the time. But when she's confronted about

00:35:46.320 --> 00:35:48.719
this from Sam, she feels like he's been like

00:35:48.719 --> 00:35:51.119
stalking her or something. He hasn't. He's just

00:35:51.119 --> 00:35:54.059
come home. They have this loud argument about

00:35:54.059 --> 00:35:57.320
this. And she says, you know what? I am actually

00:35:57.320 --> 00:35:58.760
going to take him up on his proposal. We're going

00:35:58.760 --> 00:36:00.440
to get married and I am fully getting a divorce

00:36:00.440 --> 00:36:02.820
from you. Right. And that gives Sam the release

00:36:02.820 --> 00:36:04.860
that he needs to go and travel the world and

00:36:04.860 --> 00:36:07.360
do what he wants to do. And he does this. And

00:36:07.360 --> 00:36:10.480
that's what leads to Edith. But meanwhile, and

00:36:10.480 --> 00:36:12.000
I want to cut to you on this because I'd love

00:36:12.000 --> 00:36:15.139
to hear your thoughts. Meanwhile, we see Fran

00:36:15.139 --> 00:36:19.679
continuing this marriage or engagement with Kurt

00:36:19.679 --> 00:36:24.139
von Oberstdorf. Now, Kurt has some riches behind

00:36:24.139 --> 00:36:27.780
him. He comes from a long line. And she is then

00:36:27.780 --> 00:36:32.039
introduced by Kurt to the Baroness von Oberstdorf.

00:36:32.559 --> 00:36:34.860
And I would love to hear your thoughts on this

00:36:34.860 --> 00:36:37.860
scene. Well, the Baroness is Kurt's mother. Yes.

00:36:37.980 --> 00:36:41.539
So he brings her over to what Fran believes is

00:36:41.539 --> 00:36:44.059
you're going to get, like, my mother's permission.

00:36:44.159 --> 00:36:45.780
Yeah, we're going to have some, like, tea and

00:36:45.780 --> 00:36:49.639
laugh and have a good time. Yes. And the Baroness,

00:36:49.699 --> 00:36:56.500
played by Maria Ospenskaya, is, like, very, very

00:36:56.500 --> 00:37:00.380
serious. Very cold. Very cold. Very cold. That's

00:37:00.380 --> 00:37:05.789
a great word. She is—there's no— sense of humor

00:37:05.789 --> 00:37:08.309
or anything behind her character. And she is

00:37:08.309 --> 00:37:13.650
quiet and reserved, but very, very stoic in a

00:37:13.650 --> 00:37:17.989
way. And Fran is trying to be like sweet and

00:37:17.989 --> 00:37:20.550
fun and, oh, hello, you're going to be my mother

00:37:20.550 --> 00:37:24.590
-in -law. And the Baroness is just not having

00:37:24.590 --> 00:37:27.570
it. And ultimately what you find out is she is

00:37:27.570 --> 00:37:30.789
not there to grant them permission of marriage.

00:37:30.849 --> 00:37:34.230
She's saying, no, you can't marry my son. I won't

00:37:34.230 --> 00:37:38.429
allow it. You are a divorcee, and you're also

00:37:38.429 --> 00:37:41.989
old. You know what I liked about this is, and

00:37:41.989 --> 00:37:43.989
the only thing that I take issue with just a

00:37:43.989 --> 00:37:46.050
little bit, she's all those things that you mentioned,

00:37:46.190 --> 00:37:50.309
but she's not vindictive. She's not ready to

00:37:50.309 --> 00:37:52.690
call her old. But she'll be like, so what if

00:37:52.690 --> 00:37:56.969
he wants kids? Right, right. She kind of alludes

00:37:56.969 --> 00:37:58.289
to it, where she's like, I'm not going to call

00:37:58.289 --> 00:38:01.630
you old, but what if this happens? Yeah. And

00:38:01.630 --> 00:38:05.510
I took this as... the baroness is being very

00:38:05.510 --> 00:38:07.750
like straightforward not straightforward but

00:38:07.750 --> 00:38:10.869
like very like realistic and meanwhile fran is

00:38:10.869 --> 00:38:13.489
still performative right fran is kind of like

00:38:13.489 --> 00:38:16.590
in this honestly it's almost like a drug haze

00:38:16.590 --> 00:38:18.369
of like she's like oh this is gonna work this

00:38:18.369 --> 00:38:19.849
is perfect like this is everything it needs to

00:38:19.849 --> 00:38:21.769
be and she's not stopping to think this through

00:38:21.769 --> 00:38:24.389
and she's like well yeah i mean like you know

00:38:24.389 --> 00:38:26.309
it's perfect everything's gonna be happy because

00:38:26.309 --> 00:38:29.159
i i'm willing it to be she's like great What

00:38:29.159 --> 00:38:31.179
about kids? Yeah. She's like, well, you know,

00:38:31.260 --> 00:38:33.559
he's going to, if he truly loves me, he'll love

00:38:33.559 --> 00:38:35.539
me with or without kids. She's like, all right,

00:38:35.559 --> 00:38:37.480
cool. So you're going to be like that. So let's

00:38:37.480 --> 00:38:40.159
be like this. You're old. Like you can't bear

00:38:40.159 --> 00:38:43.739
children. Right. And he needs an heir for like

00:38:43.739 --> 00:38:46.619
their lineage and all of that. Right. So, I mean,

00:38:46.619 --> 00:38:49.280
you're right. She's not vindictive, but she is

00:38:49.280 --> 00:38:52.960
cold enough that she knows exactly how to target.

00:38:53.449 --> 00:38:56.349
fran and and really kind of hurt her to to get

00:38:56.349 --> 00:38:58.250
her point across and i don't mean this to be

00:38:58.250 --> 00:39:00.949
cute for the name of her son but she's very curt

00:39:00.949 --> 00:39:04.090
yeah she's just very straightforward about this

00:39:04.090 --> 00:39:06.369
and again no part of it comes across as like

00:39:06.369 --> 00:39:09.550
you know what it really seems like to me i don't

00:39:09.550 --> 00:39:10.769
know if it seems like this or it's just kind

00:39:10.769 --> 00:39:14.230
of funny to think about but we talk about someone

00:39:14.230 --> 00:39:16.550
who is being played kind of like a villainess

00:39:17.039 --> 00:39:19.320
And then we see kind of like the person who won't

00:39:19.320 --> 00:39:21.199
let this go any further. Everyone has kind of

00:39:21.199 --> 00:39:23.139
allowed her to be this character and allowed

00:39:23.139 --> 00:39:24.780
her to be like a free spirit, do whatever she

00:39:24.780 --> 00:39:28.920
wants. This is the first real villain in Fran's

00:39:28.920 --> 00:39:32.659
story of like, I won't let you do this. I cannot

00:39:32.659 --> 00:39:34.460
let you do this because I'm just going to be

00:39:34.460 --> 00:39:36.599
straightforward with you. Even her husband, you

00:39:36.599 --> 00:39:38.820
see him being like, look, I kind of know this

00:39:38.820 --> 00:39:40.380
is going on, but if we just pretend that it's

00:39:40.380 --> 00:39:43.760
not, maybe it's okay. So this is the only roadblock

00:39:43.760 --> 00:39:46.940
she has actually met. Is this woman, and I think

00:39:46.940 --> 00:39:49.139
she's kind of a representative of time. You know,

00:39:49.159 --> 00:39:51.099
I think not only does she remind her of time

00:39:51.099 --> 00:39:54.780
in her age, but she literally tells her, you

00:39:54.780 --> 00:39:57.920
are old. Yes. You cannot do this. I do like that

00:39:57.920 --> 00:40:02.400
this, like, gut punch of, hey, this is a serious

00:40:02.400 --> 00:40:05.679
thing. Your age isn't just something that you're,

00:40:05.679 --> 00:40:08.940
like, fearful of because of, you'll look a certain

00:40:08.940 --> 00:40:12.199
way. Like, children is a big thing that you're

00:40:12.199 --> 00:40:14.530
going to. You come into the realization that

00:40:14.530 --> 00:40:18.070
maybe maybe you're getting past that age. And

00:40:18.070 --> 00:40:21.750
it's it's such a like solid gut punch. And it

00:40:21.750 --> 00:40:24.409
comes from another woman. And I think that is

00:40:24.409 --> 00:40:28.730
really expertly done in this movie. Are you familiar

00:40:28.730 --> 00:40:32.730
with Maria? I might be, but not by name. So she

00:40:32.730 --> 00:40:37.349
is Maliva in the Wolfman movie. She's the one

00:40:37.349 --> 00:40:40.849
that's like, beware the moon and the wolf's bane

00:40:40.849 --> 00:40:43.329
and all of that stuff. So she has a history in

00:40:43.329 --> 00:40:45.630
the Universal Monster movies as a really haunting

00:40:45.630 --> 00:40:51.150
figure and a character in the horrified board

00:40:51.150 --> 00:40:54.050
game that is constantly getting killed. And I

00:40:54.050 --> 00:40:56.070
need her to chill out because I lose a lot because

00:40:56.070 --> 00:40:59.789
of her. But yeah, it's always fun when a Universal

00:40:59.789 --> 00:41:03.960
Monster star pops up. And I think that... She

00:41:03.960 --> 00:41:06.940
is so perfectly cast when you know what she goes

00:41:06.940 --> 00:41:10.239
on to become. She definitely has that, like,

00:41:10.260 --> 00:41:13.260
creepy lady vibes. Well, I mean, it's worth noting

00:41:13.260 --> 00:41:15.219
that in terms of the characters of this movie,

00:41:15.280 --> 00:41:19.539
I have seven people written down. And she is

00:41:19.539 --> 00:41:22.539
the last one written down. But she got the nomination

00:41:22.539 --> 00:41:26.360
for Supporting Actress. She did, yeah. And actor

00:41:26.360 --> 00:41:28.980
Walter Houston also got the nomination for this.

00:41:29.079 --> 00:41:31.679
But we didn't see Ruth Chatterton. We didn't.

00:41:32.679 --> 00:41:35.519
I think it's less about her performance and more

00:41:35.519 --> 00:41:37.860
about her character. I think so, too. Because

00:41:37.860 --> 00:41:39.840
she is good in this. She's great. But again,

00:41:39.960 --> 00:41:42.980
I really do stand by that you can feel the movie

00:41:42.980 --> 00:41:45.659
or the character. Well, actually both. The movie

00:41:45.659 --> 00:41:47.800
and the character pushing and pulling on the

00:41:47.800 --> 00:41:50.360
intentions. Yes. I think this conversation that's

00:41:50.360 --> 00:41:53.519
had with Maria Ospenskaya, which is incredible.

00:41:53.699 --> 00:41:55.500
And I understand the supporting nomination for

00:41:55.500 --> 00:41:57.920
this. And you know that it's good when you know

00:41:57.920 --> 00:41:59.500
about this nomination. And the whole movie, you're

00:41:59.500 --> 00:42:01.380
like, where is this person? And when they show

00:42:01.380 --> 00:42:05.300
up in, I guess, the last 20 % of the movie. You're

00:42:05.300 --> 00:42:06.659
thinking, okay, well this better blow me out

00:42:06.659 --> 00:42:08.119
of the water if this is the first time you're

00:42:08.119 --> 00:42:10.079
being introduced. And it does. It's so good.

00:42:10.360 --> 00:42:12.480
You know that it's effective. She's really great

00:42:12.480 --> 00:42:17.320
in that. But that's a testament to how important

00:42:17.320 --> 00:42:21.179
this scene is and how well acted this is from

00:42:21.179 --> 00:42:23.659
both of them. That that's nominated. And also

00:42:23.659 --> 00:42:26.980
that this is a reminder of that time that Ruth

00:42:26.980 --> 00:42:28.679
Chatterton is playing behind the character of

00:42:28.679 --> 00:42:31.809
Age. Yeah. And and at this point, like that's

00:42:31.809 --> 00:42:34.329
kind of the lead into what will be the climax

00:42:34.329 --> 00:42:38.769
of the movie, because now Fran, this has ended

00:42:38.769 --> 00:42:42.269
for her this this neck of her journey. And she

00:42:42.269 --> 00:42:44.989
doesn't have anybody now. She's she's lost Arnold.

00:42:45.309 --> 00:42:49.349
She's lost Kurt. And the clock is ticking in

00:42:49.349 --> 00:42:51.510
her eyes and she's getting very, very nervous.

00:42:51.630 --> 00:42:54.070
And Sam, at this point, he is gone. And he's

00:42:54.070 --> 00:42:57.159
like, OK, well, this is this is life now. He

00:42:57.159 --> 00:42:59.239
still hasn't reached the point where he's ready

00:42:59.239 --> 00:43:01.719
to move on. He's just kind of living his life

00:43:01.719 --> 00:43:03.440
and enjoying it, and he's spending time with

00:43:03.440 --> 00:43:08.420
Edith Cartwright. And just as they are starting

00:43:08.420 --> 00:43:11.659
to get close and realize, you know, maybe we

00:43:11.659 --> 00:43:14.900
do want more with each other, he gets a call

00:43:14.900 --> 00:43:18.940
from Fran, and Fran is in hysterics. She's like,

00:43:19.139 --> 00:43:22.179
hey, I need you, really, is what she's getting

00:43:22.179 --> 00:43:26.070
at. I miss you. I loved this whole scene because

00:43:26.070 --> 00:43:28.690
he's not the first one to find this out. Right.

00:43:28.769 --> 00:43:32.030
It's Edith. And Edith hears from her housekeeper

00:43:32.030 --> 00:43:35.570
or whatever that there is a call coming from

00:43:35.570 --> 00:43:38.610
where, I forget exactly where it is, but it's

00:43:38.610 --> 00:43:42.389
where she knows that Fran has been. Right. So

00:43:42.389 --> 00:43:45.030
she knows this is Fran. And she almost tries

00:43:45.030 --> 00:43:48.000
to rush Sam out of the house. yeah to like avoid

00:43:48.000 --> 00:43:50.940
this but he goes back for something and like

00:43:50.940 --> 00:43:52.659
the phone rings again and he just kind of takes

00:43:52.659 --> 00:43:54.519
it or no i'm so sorry the housekeeper's like

00:43:54.519 --> 00:43:57.159
oh this is for uh sam and for doddsworth he's

00:43:57.159 --> 00:43:59.199
like oh cool let me take this call yeah and as

00:43:59.199 --> 00:44:02.480
he takes it you see his realization at the same

00:44:02.480 --> 00:44:04.420
time it's a great it's not a split diopter or

00:44:04.420 --> 00:44:07.320
anything but you can see uh edith's reaction

00:44:07.320 --> 00:44:09.519
in the corner while he's taking the call and

00:44:09.519 --> 00:44:10.800
both of them are kind of reacting at the same

00:44:10.800 --> 00:44:12.920
time she knows that once that call is picked

00:44:12.920 --> 00:44:16.889
up uh she's lost him and he knows this too And

00:44:16.889 --> 00:44:18.730
it's a sad realization of, well, I got to go

00:44:18.730 --> 00:44:21.090
be there because, you know, technically that's

00:44:21.090 --> 00:44:23.289
my partner and like my, my ex -wife, like I have

00:44:23.289 --> 00:44:25.769
to go be there for whatever. And he does this

00:44:25.769 --> 00:44:29.070
and it's heartbreaking and it's sad because you

00:44:29.070 --> 00:44:31.230
want to see this continue. But the thing that

00:44:31.230 --> 00:44:34.590
to me, I wasn't mad at this because shortly after

00:44:34.590 --> 00:44:38.889
we see him getting on the boat with Fran and

00:44:38.889 --> 00:44:41.429
as he tries to like make peace with this life,

00:44:41.570 --> 00:44:45.610
he realizes very quickly how high maintenance

00:44:45.610 --> 00:44:48.460
she is. And how she needs someone to care for

00:44:48.460 --> 00:44:51.639
her. Right. And this kind of harkens back to

00:44:51.639 --> 00:44:53.980
when he came home the first time and didn't have

00:44:53.980 --> 00:44:56.519
someone. He was like, oh, well, she usually does

00:44:56.519 --> 00:44:57.940
this for me. And your mother has this here. And

00:44:57.940 --> 00:44:59.260
why would you move this? And, like, my whole

00:44:59.260 --> 00:45:02.579
life is different now. And I hate that. And now

00:45:02.579 --> 00:45:05.000
he is seeing that this person needs so much from

00:45:05.000 --> 00:45:07.519
him. Oh, that door is open. It's so cold. Why

00:45:07.519 --> 00:45:09.440
do they keep that door closed? Or why don't they

00:45:09.440 --> 00:45:11.239
keep that door closed? And he's like, well, let

00:45:11.239 --> 00:45:12.539
me get you, like, a blanket or something. And,

00:45:12.579 --> 00:45:14.199
like, why don't we get you a coat? Or let's close

00:45:14.199 --> 00:45:17.000
it. And no matter what, she's just always upset

00:45:17.000 --> 00:45:20.360
at something. And she starts judging other people.

00:45:20.400 --> 00:45:22.719
And he hates this, too. So he gets up and he

00:45:22.719 --> 00:45:24.860
decides, I'm leaving. I'm going to get off this

00:45:24.860 --> 00:45:27.159
boat as quickly as I can. And I'm going to Edith.

00:45:27.559 --> 00:45:31.019
And there's a great line that he has. And I can't

00:45:31.019 --> 00:45:32.780
remember the exact phrase of it. I have it. You

00:45:32.780 --> 00:45:35.739
have it? Yep. Okay. I did love this. Clearly,

00:45:35.739 --> 00:45:38.300
it resonated with you, too. Right. She mentions,

00:45:38.519 --> 00:45:41.239
you know, are you not the man I married? Are

00:45:41.239 --> 00:45:44.800
you not the man that I... Or that claims to love

00:45:44.800 --> 00:45:47.780
me. Yes. And he says, love has got to stop someplace

00:45:47.780 --> 00:45:52.400
short of suicide. And I think that's the moment

00:45:52.400 --> 00:45:54.320
where everything kind of clicks. And you're like,

00:45:54.420 --> 00:45:56.860
I think that's the last thing that's said. There

00:45:56.860 --> 00:45:58.260
might be someone that's like last person coming

00:45:58.260 --> 00:46:00.280
on the boat. But that's the last line between

00:46:00.280 --> 00:46:02.940
him or Fran. I believe you're right. Yeah. That

00:46:02.940 --> 00:46:06.679
is the end of their relationship. And it is.

00:46:06.719 --> 00:46:08.699
It's like everything clicks in that moment because

00:46:08.699 --> 00:46:12.210
you realize that. He was doing everything in

00:46:12.210 --> 00:46:16.809
his power to keep them together and happy, you

00:46:16.809 --> 00:46:19.329
know, to the extent of you go live in this other

00:46:19.329 --> 00:46:22.369
country by yourself and do whatever, you know.

00:46:22.369 --> 00:46:24.829
And when I find out that you've been unfaithful,

00:46:24.869 --> 00:46:26.809
I'm going to work through that with you too.

00:46:27.210 --> 00:46:30.889
And you know it's taking a toll on him, but you

00:46:30.889 --> 00:46:32.949
don't really see it. And I think this is a sign

00:46:32.949 --> 00:46:35.610
of the times as well where you don't see a man

00:46:35.610 --> 00:46:40.400
really be hit. massively by his emotions but

00:46:40.400 --> 00:46:42.659
you know that this is this has been weighing

00:46:42.659 --> 00:46:45.699
on him his entire life and now when he's finally

00:46:45.699 --> 00:46:48.900
found somebody that he's comfortable enough to

00:46:48.900 --> 00:46:52.000
to not only be with but to say goodbye to his

00:46:52.000 --> 00:46:54.679
previous life clearly that's taken a lot from

00:46:54.679 --> 00:46:58.920
him he finds edith and then fran shows up again

00:46:59.420 --> 00:47:01.860
And this is the moment where it's like the ultimate

00:47:01.860 --> 00:47:05.119
crossroad. Does he go back and take care of her

00:47:05.119 --> 00:47:10.360
again in her selfish ways, in her she only needs

00:47:10.360 --> 00:47:13.639
him when she's in distress or when somebody else

00:47:13.639 --> 00:47:17.320
isn't there? Or does he go live the life that

00:47:17.320 --> 00:47:21.440
he feels he deserves? And it's great that he

00:47:21.440 --> 00:47:24.579
comes to the realization that if he stays, it

00:47:24.579 --> 00:47:27.179
will eventually kill him. It's beautiful. It

00:47:27.179 --> 00:47:30.349
is beautiful. You know, a couple things about

00:47:30.349 --> 00:47:33.510
this I checked, because we talked about this.

00:47:33.550 --> 00:47:35.329
This is in the middle of the production code,

00:47:35.449 --> 00:47:37.469
right? This is not like, oh, it was just formed

00:47:37.469 --> 00:47:40.090
last year. This is happening. This has been happening.

00:47:40.389 --> 00:47:42.510
This is nothing new. This was shocking to us

00:47:42.510 --> 00:47:44.690
in a number of ways. A, the way that infidelity

00:47:44.690 --> 00:47:47.269
is portrayed. The way that it's not danced around.

00:47:47.369 --> 00:47:49.960
It is pretty, like... Not shown, but there's

00:47:49.960 --> 00:47:52.260
kissing between other people. There's the make

00:47:52.260 --> 00:47:55.440
love comment that's made. So this is, of all

00:47:55.440 --> 00:47:57.500
those things, this isn't where I'm leading, but

00:47:57.500 --> 00:47:59.800
it's a little related. This is the first time,

00:47:59.820 --> 00:48:02.219
this movie, that mid -code, a man walks out of

00:48:02.219 --> 00:48:04.940
a marriage without punishment. Right. Because

00:48:04.940 --> 00:48:07.679
she does say, well, I am going to go ahead and

00:48:07.679 --> 00:48:09.260
move forward with this other guy proposing. He's

00:48:09.260 --> 00:48:11.780
like, great, I'm leaving. And he leaves. And

00:48:11.780 --> 00:48:14.360
he leaves the country and travels. And there's

00:48:14.360 --> 00:48:18.119
no punishment shown of doing that in 1936, obviously

00:48:18.119 --> 00:48:20.320
a very different time. The other thing behind

00:48:20.320 --> 00:48:22.159
this, and I thought that was very interesting,

00:48:22.280 --> 00:48:24.280
but the other really interesting tidbit behind

00:48:24.280 --> 00:48:26.820
this movie is that we talked about how Walter

00:48:26.820 --> 00:48:30.420
Houston was nominated for Best Actor. And we

00:48:30.420 --> 00:48:33.360
also talked about how Maria Ospenskaya was also

00:48:33.360 --> 00:48:35.980
nominated for Best Supporting Actor, Actress.

00:48:36.599 --> 00:48:40.400
So this, along with My Man Godfrey, were the

00:48:40.400 --> 00:48:43.260
first films to be nominated for Best Actor and

00:48:43.260 --> 00:48:47.699
Supporting Actor or Actress. So those two films

00:48:47.699 --> 00:48:50.460
specifically were the first. To have a nomination

00:48:50.460 --> 00:48:53.139
in both an acting and a supporting? Correct.

00:48:53.280 --> 00:48:56.280
I see. That's awesome. Very cool. Obviously,

00:48:56.420 --> 00:48:58.079
it's something that's almost like a standard

00:48:58.079 --> 00:49:02.980
now in modern terms in 2020, post -2020. well

00:49:02.980 --> 00:49:04.500
before that too but i'm just saying modern times

00:49:04.500 --> 00:49:07.519
yeah uh we will see like you know when we talked

00:49:07.519 --> 00:49:10.440
about this uh at the oscar for the oscar ceremony

00:49:10.440 --> 00:49:14.219
of 1935 where we said that um you know it's very

00:49:14.219 --> 00:49:16.280
rare that we're going to see movies that were

00:49:16.280 --> 00:49:19.360
win for best picture but uh don't win anything

00:49:19.360 --> 00:49:22.039
else yeah right because everything else is kind

00:49:22.039 --> 00:49:24.280
of like a lead -up like a proof where's the evidence

00:49:24.280 --> 00:49:26.320
of how good the movie is yeah was it the acting

00:49:26.320 --> 00:49:29.760
was it the um under not under Below the line.

00:49:29.820 --> 00:49:32.400
Thank you. Below the line was the writing. Like,

00:49:32.400 --> 00:49:34.440
there's something that makes this movie a step

00:49:34.440 --> 00:49:35.940
above everything else. And you want to see that

00:49:35.940 --> 00:49:38.360
nomination. I think it's really interesting to

00:49:38.360 --> 00:49:40.619
see, like, the beginning of that. Yeah. Here.

00:49:40.880 --> 00:49:44.699
Yeah, I agree. I agree completely. The final

00:49:44.699 --> 00:49:48.119
shot of this movie, too, I love that even though

00:49:48.119 --> 00:49:51.119
the entire story hinges on Sam and Fran's relationship.

00:49:51.840 --> 00:49:55.420
Yes. The last shot is Mary Astor's face smiling

00:49:55.420 --> 00:49:58.510
and waving down to Sam. Because she sees that

00:49:58.510 --> 00:50:02.750
a boat is coming to her island where she is.

00:50:02.869 --> 00:50:06.409
And it's a reveal of, I think the mast is in

00:50:06.409 --> 00:50:09.090
the way. And once the boat turns, you can see

00:50:09.090 --> 00:50:13.050
it's a smaller boat. You see Sam is on the boat

00:50:13.050 --> 00:50:17.150
behind waving to her. And I think it's so great

00:50:17.150 --> 00:50:20.889
that they use Mary Astor here as Edith. Because

00:50:20.889 --> 00:50:24.780
she's thrilled that... OK, he's come back to

00:50:24.780 --> 00:50:27.019
me like I get him. There is that that level of

00:50:27.019 --> 00:50:29.619
it. But she's excited for him because this this

00:50:29.619 --> 00:50:32.739
means that he has made the choice on his own

00:50:32.739 --> 00:50:36.539
one to be with her, but also to give up that

00:50:36.539 --> 00:50:40.340
life that was weighing him down. And I just love

00:50:40.340 --> 00:50:43.320
that you see the happiness from her as an indicator

00:50:43.320 --> 00:50:47.760
of what is to come for Sam. Yes, I agree. And

00:50:47.760 --> 00:50:50.280
did you see that Mary Astor like this as well?

00:50:50.679 --> 00:50:52.679
I did, yeah, I read that. She was a big fan of

00:50:52.679 --> 00:50:54.159
it. Yeah, she wrote in her memoir how pleased

00:50:54.159 --> 00:50:56.780
she was that it ended with her for that exact

00:50:56.780 --> 00:50:58.840
reason. Yeah. Because you're right, the double

00:50:58.840 --> 00:51:00.900
meaning there is that, A, she's happy for herself

00:51:00.900 --> 00:51:02.880
that she gets to be with Sam, but I also think

00:51:02.880 --> 00:51:04.840
that it's that she's happy for him that he made

00:51:04.840 --> 00:51:07.440
a decision. Yes. And didn't just, like, feel

00:51:07.440 --> 00:51:09.920
like he had to be trapped. And you're seeing

00:51:09.920 --> 00:51:12.480
a woman who... Obviously cares so much about

00:51:12.480 --> 00:51:15.519
Sam in that moment in a way that Fran never did.

00:51:15.679 --> 00:51:18.940
So it's such a good choice to not end on Sam

00:51:18.940 --> 00:51:23.719
and to end on her. I agree. Beyond the story,

00:51:23.800 --> 00:51:26.019
like there was a lot in this movie that really

00:51:26.019 --> 00:51:29.500
impressed me. I've talked about like how grounded

00:51:29.500 --> 00:51:32.739
it feels and how it doesn't feel like a silly

00:51:32.739 --> 00:51:35.219
little melodrama. Like I think about Bad Girl

00:51:35.219 --> 00:51:38.179
and like. Bad Girl was fine. I think we both

00:51:38.179 --> 00:51:42.400
were okay on it. But it did feel a little cheesy,

00:51:42.460 --> 00:51:45.980
a little campy, a little goofy at times, even

00:51:45.980 --> 00:51:48.739
though the themes were very, very serious. This

00:51:48.739 --> 00:51:53.980
feels like there's no room for giggles or anything

00:51:53.980 --> 00:51:57.360
like that. And I really love that. I'm a big

00:51:57.360 --> 00:52:00.139
drama guy. And this is one of the first examples

00:52:00.139 --> 00:52:03.800
of like this type of drama. And man, I adored

00:52:03.800 --> 00:52:07.500
it. The sound. nomination here i also thought

00:52:07.500 --> 00:52:09.760
was interesting because it's obviously a drama

00:52:09.760 --> 00:52:13.539
there's not action and explosions going off but

00:52:13.539 --> 00:52:16.559
the arguments that do sound and feel very grounded

00:52:16.559 --> 00:52:20.639
and real i i love how much speaking over one

00:52:20.639 --> 00:52:23.860
another there is and i mean there are moments

00:52:23.860 --> 00:52:26.579
where fran is just kind of like spouting out

00:52:26.579 --> 00:52:30.429
like well you know i i want to be more like the

00:52:30.429 --> 00:52:32.670
the socialites and things and i want to eat what

00:52:32.670 --> 00:52:35.670
people in this country eat and sam is just like

00:52:35.670 --> 00:52:39.550
talking over her like a like a real couple does

00:52:39.550 --> 00:52:42.650
yeah and i think that element and having the

00:52:42.650 --> 00:52:44.889
clarity of those conversations come through still

00:52:44.889 --> 00:52:47.389
with the sound recording adds to the realism

00:52:47.389 --> 00:52:50.230
of the movie so i think it's one of the best

00:52:50.230 --> 00:52:53.239
examples of a sound recording nomination I think

00:52:53.239 --> 00:52:55.559
you're right. I think also the other example

00:52:55.559 --> 00:52:57.760
of this is whenever you have a moment in the

00:52:57.760 --> 00:53:00.900
movie that is alerting you to how loud it is,

00:53:00.940 --> 00:53:04.079
it needs to prove that. Yeah. So the noise complaint

00:53:04.079 --> 00:53:07.440
scene where they're arguing, you really do feel

00:53:07.440 --> 00:53:09.659
like it is shaking the room, like how much they

00:53:09.659 --> 00:53:11.639
are yelling at each other. So when that call

00:53:11.639 --> 00:53:14.269
comes in, you're like, yeah, totally. Like, oh

00:53:14.269 --> 00:53:16.530
man, it happens a little quickly for my taste,

00:53:16.570 --> 00:53:18.250
to be honest. It's like maybe 15 seconds after

00:53:18.250 --> 00:53:19.769
that they get a phone call that's like, hey,

00:53:19.869 --> 00:53:22.030
you're being too loud. Yeah. We received a noise

00:53:22.030 --> 00:53:23.349
complaint. I was like, that didn't happen in

00:53:23.349 --> 00:53:27.369
15 seconds. But you can, it's justified in the

00:53:27.369 --> 00:53:29.710
volume. And that's, again, the sound recording

00:53:29.710 --> 00:53:31.389
of like, they know to balance these things and

00:53:31.389 --> 00:53:33.409
you really have to like lean into this or have

00:53:33.409 --> 00:53:37.050
them scream louder to really convey the strength

00:53:37.050 --> 00:53:40.679
of like how loud this is. Yeah. So. I think in

00:53:40.679 --> 00:53:43.340
combination of talking over and multiple people

00:53:43.340 --> 00:53:45.619
in a room having a conversation, a similar thing

00:53:45.619 --> 00:53:48.039
of when Sam first comes home and he's almost

00:53:48.039 --> 00:53:50.039
grumpy at the idea of like things aren't ready

00:53:50.039 --> 00:53:51.639
for him and things aren't where he left them.

00:53:51.739 --> 00:53:53.460
You can kind of hear his daughter like trying

00:53:53.460 --> 00:53:56.219
to, okay, daddy, like calm down. Like it's going

00:53:56.219 --> 00:53:58.340
to be okay. While he's like freaking out, you

00:53:58.340 --> 00:54:00.440
can make out all these things. Yeah. So sound

00:54:00.440 --> 00:54:02.659
recording was very clear here. Oh, it's so good.

00:54:02.739 --> 00:54:05.639
And the scene again with the phone is incredibly

00:54:05.639 --> 00:54:09.480
written. The fact that that's an example. Of

00:54:09.480 --> 00:54:12.900
Sam's character, of letting the anger take control

00:54:12.900 --> 00:54:15.199
of him, but he's level -headed enough that when

00:54:15.199 --> 00:54:17.559
he does get that complaint, like, he brings it

00:54:17.559 --> 00:54:21.059
down. And the argument ramps back up again, just

00:54:21.059 --> 00:54:22.840
like it would in real life, but, like, that's

00:54:22.840 --> 00:54:26.719
such expert writing. Do you recall the scene

00:54:26.719 --> 00:54:28.820
where they're in a bedroom together and they

00:54:28.820 --> 00:54:32.599
get into an argument and he ends up looking for

00:54:32.599 --> 00:54:36.820
his cigarettes? Yes. So minor. But so good to

00:54:36.820 --> 00:54:39.460
have that in there to, again, make it feel like

00:54:39.460 --> 00:54:41.760
these are real people. They are having a real

00:54:41.760 --> 00:54:44.039
conversation, a real argument. I thought the

00:54:44.039 --> 00:54:48.360
writing was incredible. I don't mean to be a

00:54:48.360 --> 00:54:52.500
conspiracy theorist about this, but I say that.

00:54:52.920 --> 00:54:54.900
The only thing that stopped me from absolutely

00:54:54.900 --> 00:54:58.539
loving this movie was how the movie does feel

00:54:58.539 --> 00:55:02.800
at odds with itself of Ruth Chatterton, specifically

00:55:02.800 --> 00:55:06.300
the Fran Dotsworth character, and how the movie

00:55:06.300 --> 00:55:08.619
wants to portray her. And I think that if you

00:55:08.619 --> 00:55:10.639
look at the nominations, again, let's go through

00:55:10.639 --> 00:55:12.500
that. I mean, sound recording, art direction,

00:55:12.719 --> 00:55:16.340
but then let's focus on this. Best picture, screenplay,

00:55:16.539 --> 00:55:20.719
supporting actress, actor, director. I think

00:55:20.719 --> 00:55:24.650
that even the nominations, show that we are willing

00:55:24.650 --> 00:55:27.829
to give awards and recognition to just about

00:55:27.829 --> 00:55:31.110
everything and everyone except Ruth Chatterton

00:55:31.110 --> 00:55:34.170
yeah and I don't mean that's like a Ruth we hate

00:55:34.170 --> 00:55:36.150
you but I think that that is them looking at

00:55:36.150 --> 00:55:38.329
what works in the movie and what works in the

00:55:38.329 --> 00:55:41.349
movie is Maria Ospenskaya is incredible as the

00:55:41.349 --> 00:55:44.030
Baroness and she is a turning point in Ruth's

00:55:44.030 --> 00:55:47.889
character and it is it is a real I think I don't

00:55:47.889 --> 00:55:49.710
want to say condemnation but I think it's a real

00:55:49.710 --> 00:55:52.679
sign that in that scene that is a real turning

00:55:52.679 --> 00:55:56.840
point for that character, the nomination is going

00:55:56.840 --> 00:55:58.880
to the other person in that conversation and

00:55:58.880 --> 00:56:01.219
not Ruth. Same goes for Walter Houston. Same

00:56:01.219 --> 00:56:03.340
goes for the direction by William Wyler. And

00:56:03.340 --> 00:56:05.599
to your point, same goes for Sidney Howard in

00:56:05.599 --> 00:56:08.119
the screenplay. Like, I think it is so well written

00:56:08.119 --> 00:56:10.599
and so well directed, but it's just noticeable

00:56:10.599 --> 00:56:13.860
or it's assigned to me. That Ruth Chatterjee

00:56:13.860 --> 00:56:15.900
isn't nominated there? Because I think that is

00:56:15.900 --> 00:56:18.460
then recognized in this movie is fantastic, but

00:56:18.460 --> 00:56:21.199
there is an outlying factor that for me, at least,

00:56:21.199 --> 00:56:23.219
it's easy to read into what that might be. I

00:56:23.219 --> 00:56:26.420
wonder with the production code and all of that,

00:56:26.519 --> 00:56:30.840
if it is a sign of the times that we're not cheering

00:56:30.840 --> 00:56:33.860
for villains normally. The most you cheer for

00:56:33.860 --> 00:56:36.510
a villain is going to be in a horror movie. But

00:56:36.510 --> 00:56:38.550
a lot of those villains end up being sympathetic.

00:56:39.030 --> 00:56:41.530
Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde was nominated, but you

00:56:41.530 --> 00:56:44.710
have a character who is good, but then after

00:56:44.710 --> 00:56:48.630
the potion becomes evil. And I don't think that

00:56:48.630 --> 00:56:52.530
in the 30s audiences are cheering on villains

00:56:52.530 --> 00:56:56.829
to the extent of let's award characters that

00:56:56.829 --> 00:56:58.710
we don't like. And when I say villains, I don't

00:56:58.710 --> 00:57:00.130
mean like villains that are fun to root for.

00:57:00.230 --> 00:57:04.309
I mean like detestable villains. Yeah. And I

00:57:04.309 --> 00:57:09.159
would argue that. Fran is very unlikable in this

00:57:09.159 --> 00:57:12.159
movie. I would, by and large, say, well, let

00:57:12.159 --> 00:57:15.019
me rephrase that. I would agree, by and large.

00:57:15.239 --> 00:57:18.420
Like, I think that's right. But I do think that

00:57:18.420 --> 00:57:20.460
there are some exceptions. Charles Lawton was

00:57:20.460 --> 00:57:22.980
just nominated for his portrayal as Captain Blight

00:57:22.980 --> 00:57:25.239
in Mutiny on the Bounty, which, to the beginning,

00:57:25.320 --> 00:57:26.880
you might be able to say, okay, he has some,

00:57:26.900 --> 00:57:28.780
like, you know, you can defend him a little bit.

00:57:29.019 --> 00:57:32.260
By the last half of this movie, like... Really,

00:57:32.300 --> 00:57:34.880
once he survives the mutiny, you're just like,

00:57:34.940 --> 00:57:37.820
nope, this guy sucks. But is he fun? He's fun,

00:57:37.980 --> 00:57:41.840
sure. But then even the villain to Fran in this

00:57:41.840 --> 00:57:44.880
movie, like Fran would see Maria Ospenskaya as

00:57:44.880 --> 00:57:47.579
the villain of her story, and she gets nominated.

00:57:47.920 --> 00:57:50.119
So I think you're right, that we're not rooting

00:57:50.119 --> 00:57:51.860
for villains, but there are people who can have

00:57:51.860 --> 00:57:55.000
villainous qualities that will get nominated.

00:57:55.420 --> 00:57:58.780
And that too, I think if you are right, and I

00:57:58.780 --> 00:58:00.630
think you are. then I think that that speaks

00:58:00.630 --> 00:58:02.909
to what's wrong with this movie, is that she

00:58:02.909 --> 00:58:05.030
shouldn't be portrayed as this villainous person,

00:58:05.150 --> 00:58:06.929
which is clearly what Ruth Chatterton wanted

00:58:06.929 --> 00:58:09.929
to do here. And it should have been William Wyler's

00:58:09.929 --> 00:58:12.610
interpretation of there is some sympathy to her,

00:58:12.690 --> 00:58:14.789
and ultimately it's just a tragedy that she ended

00:58:14.789 --> 00:58:17.730
up in this place. Yeah. That's my thought. I

00:58:17.730 --> 00:58:20.369
think on a second watch through, I might even

00:58:20.369 --> 00:58:25.130
enjoy that towing the line element of it, because

00:58:25.130 --> 00:58:27.429
that kind of makes it feel real as well. Where

00:58:27.429 --> 00:58:30.389
it's like, this is a selfish person, but like

00:58:30.389 --> 00:58:34.269
their motives behind it, like fear of age and

00:58:34.269 --> 00:58:36.909
just being locked into something for the rest

00:58:36.909 --> 00:58:39.329
of their life. Like, I can be sympathetic towards

00:58:39.329 --> 00:58:42.650
that character at times. So, I don't know. I

00:58:42.650 --> 00:58:44.210
think on a first viewing, it's just like, yeah,

00:58:44.289 --> 00:58:48.309
I can't get into her because she does some despicable

00:58:48.309 --> 00:58:50.250
things. But yeah, I don't know. You want to get

00:58:50.250 --> 00:58:51.909
into ratings? I'd love to get into ratings. Man,

00:58:51.929 --> 00:58:55.550
I think this... Kind of story, just it always

00:58:55.550 --> 00:58:59.369
works well with me. And when I say this kind

00:58:59.369 --> 00:59:01.929
of story, I mean like you're really diving into

00:59:01.929 --> 00:59:04.909
characters here, you know, and getting into the

00:59:04.909 --> 00:59:07.809
daily lives of people that are going through

00:59:07.809 --> 00:59:11.690
this. I love that. And we didn't talk a whole

00:59:11.690 --> 00:59:14.789
lot about William Wyler, but he's doing very

00:59:14.789 --> 00:59:17.010
interesting things with the camera. That sounds

00:59:17.010 --> 00:59:20.429
like an understatement in a way. But like, I

00:59:20.429 --> 00:59:23.090
don't think the camera is ever... incredibly

00:59:23.090 --> 00:59:26.030
stationary in this movie. There's a really cool

00:59:26.030 --> 00:59:28.590
shot where the camera is set underneath a table

00:59:28.590 --> 00:59:33.329
in like a bar or restaurant. And we see Sam walk

00:59:33.329 --> 00:59:37.789
in, camera raises up above the table, and then

00:59:37.789 --> 00:59:39.989
it kind of goes left and right during a conversation.

00:59:40.170 --> 00:59:42.090
And it's not like, whoa, that was incredible.

00:59:42.550 --> 00:59:46.469
It's very elegant. Yes. And it's alive, you know?

00:59:46.469 --> 00:59:48.809
And that's what I love about this movie. It feels

00:59:48.809 --> 00:59:53.780
alive. It feels real. I like this way more than

00:59:53.780 --> 00:59:57.679
I expected. I gave it four stars. So I gave it

00:59:57.679 --> 01:00:00.920
three and a half, and I think it might be closer

01:00:00.920 --> 01:00:03.349
to four. But what I'm trying to do is I'm trying

01:00:03.349 --> 01:00:05.789
to wrestle with myself of where I want to land

01:00:05.789 --> 01:00:10.070
post -Ruth Chatterton. And again, this is a really

01:00:10.070 --> 01:00:11.829
unfortunate place to be in because it was a bad

01:00:11.829 --> 01:00:13.630
performance. You can just say, okay, bad performance,

01:00:13.710 --> 01:00:16.070
not good. It's a good performance. It's just,

01:00:16.090 --> 01:00:18.389
it's very muddied. And it makes the movie a little

01:00:18.389 --> 01:00:21.670
muddied in that. So to me, that's why it's harder

01:00:21.670 --> 01:00:23.949
to go just straight four stars. But having this

01:00:23.949 --> 01:00:26.010
conversation with you, it is not lost on me how

01:00:26.010 --> 01:00:28.309
much we praise this movie. And there's really

01:00:28.309 --> 01:00:31.679
nothing outside of the... the characterization

01:00:31.679 --> 01:00:35.440
of Fran that I think makes this difficult to

01:00:35.440 --> 01:00:38.059
make peace with four stars. So I think you're

01:00:38.059 --> 01:00:39.980
right about four stars. I rated it three and

01:00:39.980 --> 01:00:42.159
a half. I'm probably going to land at four to

01:00:42.159 --> 01:00:44.360
a point where when you were rating this on the

01:00:44.360 --> 01:00:47.659
podcast page for Letterboxd, I would go ahead

01:00:47.659 --> 01:00:50.159
and put four as like the median of two of us.

01:00:51.039 --> 01:00:53.719
But yeah, I mean, this was just like a fascinating

01:00:53.719 --> 01:00:57.219
look. And I thought this was so much fun is almost

01:00:57.219 --> 01:00:59.389
the wrong word. But you do have fun watching

01:00:59.389 --> 01:01:02.329
this of like this very bleak movie that does

01:01:02.329 --> 01:01:03.929
not have a lot of humor in it. And there might

01:01:03.929 --> 01:01:06.269
be some like a slight chuckle of like the way

01:01:06.269 --> 01:01:09.210
that the characterization is of like the conversations

01:01:09.210 --> 01:01:11.949
between Fran and Sam. You talked about them talking

01:01:11.949 --> 01:01:14.230
over each other, him almost like a that's rich

01:01:14.230 --> 01:01:16.389
kind of thing of when she says it. And he's like,

01:01:16.449 --> 01:01:18.889
yeah, sure, that'll be the day. Like a chuckle

01:01:18.889 --> 01:01:21.469
or something, but nothing humorous and funny.

01:01:21.570 --> 01:01:23.989
And to be able to do that in an hour and 40 minutes

01:01:23.989 --> 01:01:27.389
and keep us invested throughout, that's a tough

01:01:27.389 --> 01:01:31.659
act. And this is just very ahead of its time.

01:01:31.719 --> 01:01:34.400
I think so, too. That I really, really appreciated.

01:01:34.639 --> 01:01:37.880
I think that's what a lot of our favorite directors

01:01:37.880 --> 01:01:40.579
feel like is ahead of their time. Yes. And William

01:01:40.579 --> 01:01:43.719
Wyler, to me, I've seen a few of his movies that

01:01:43.719 --> 01:01:47.139
aren't like standout stories a lot of the times,

01:01:47.199 --> 01:01:51.699
but they're done so elegantly that I fall in

01:01:51.699 --> 01:01:54.239
love. with the film itself. And you know what

01:01:54.239 --> 01:01:56.800
it is? I think I just landed on my frustration.

01:01:57.239 --> 01:01:59.900
It is such an honest movie. And I think everything

01:01:59.900 --> 01:02:01.460
else that we've seen up to this point that deals

01:02:01.460 --> 01:02:04.519
with divorce is such like a comedy of errors

01:02:04.519 --> 01:02:06.340
of like, oh, well, sure, it may end in divorce,

01:02:06.480 --> 01:02:08.019
but look at all these wacky ways that we got

01:02:08.019 --> 01:02:10.099
there. Maybe we think it's a divorce, but it's

01:02:10.099 --> 01:02:12.260
not. So it's a happy ending. And this does have

01:02:12.260 --> 01:02:14.739
a happy ending. But otherwise, it's a very honest,

01:02:14.940 --> 01:02:17.880
brutal movie. It is. And the characterization

01:02:17.880 --> 01:02:20.840
of Fran to me is the only thing that seems dishonest.

01:02:21.420 --> 01:02:23.280
And that's why the movie feels a little muddied

01:02:23.280 --> 01:02:25.219
is it's a movie that I think preaches honesty,

01:02:25.500 --> 01:02:28.300
not preaches it, but like it just feels so earnest

01:02:28.300 --> 01:02:31.780
and honest. And I feel like disconnection with

01:02:31.780 --> 01:02:35.019
the Fran character. I feel like Fran is so real.

01:02:35.500 --> 01:02:38.340
Oh, I disagree. She's doing stuff that's selfish.

01:02:38.420 --> 01:02:41.619
She's. Well, I think she is so, so much trying

01:02:41.619 --> 01:02:43.880
to be someone that she's not. And she's defying

01:02:43.880 --> 01:02:47.760
her own age and defying her own like self. She's

01:02:47.760 --> 01:02:50.659
Alice Adams, all grown up. sure and that's someone

01:02:50.659 --> 01:02:52.400
who's trying to be someone she's not yeah which

01:02:52.400 --> 01:02:55.420
is which is i'm not saying that her like fran

01:02:55.420 --> 01:02:59.179
is honest i think the portrayal of that character

01:02:59.179 --> 01:03:02.380
is a very real to me it's the fact that like

01:03:02.380 --> 01:03:04.599
the movie is so honest but that character is

01:03:04.599 --> 01:03:08.400
not so that's the the real confliction conflict

01:03:08.400 --> 01:03:10.519
that's the real conflict that i have with this

01:03:10.519 --> 01:03:13.059
movie is just like the the muddied of that and

01:03:13.059 --> 01:03:16.639
again It would be an easy three -star movie if

01:03:16.639 --> 01:03:18.340
I thought that was the movie's fault. It's not

01:03:18.340 --> 01:03:20.920
the movie's fault. It's my own. I can't connect

01:03:20.920 --> 01:03:22.780
with it. So I do think four stars is appropriate

01:03:22.780 --> 01:03:25.239
because I enjoyed this and this conversation

01:03:25.239 --> 01:03:28.079
so much. Man, this is my favorite type of movie

01:03:28.079 --> 01:03:31.500
because you're not saying, not you, but we're

01:03:31.500 --> 01:03:35.239
not saying pirates are so much fun. We're having

01:03:35.239 --> 01:03:41.150
a conversation about morality and just... emotion

01:03:41.150 --> 01:03:44.670
in a way and like how we feel about these characters.

01:03:44.750 --> 01:03:48.889
And that's what I want from a movie. So you brought

01:03:48.889 --> 01:03:50.769
it up earlier of like, when are we going to find

01:03:50.769 --> 01:03:53.309
one that I'm like, Hey, that was great. Yeah.

01:03:53.389 --> 01:03:56.170
This is it for me. Yeah. I really liked Doddsworth.

01:03:56.210 --> 01:03:58.710
That's awesome. I'm so glad because I really

01:03:58.710 --> 01:04:01.820
enjoyed. I think this is the, not this point

01:04:01.820 --> 01:04:03.980
specifically, but I think this week was the turning

01:04:03.980 --> 01:04:06.199
point in me of like, oh, this is really interesting.

01:04:06.400 --> 01:04:09.159
Yes. So I'm glad you felt that way. Do you want

01:04:09.159 --> 01:04:11.039
to get into double features? I do. We are running

01:04:11.039 --> 01:04:14.059
long. I'll dive into mine real quick. I went

01:04:14.059 --> 01:04:16.500
with Midwinter Break. It's a movie actually this

01:04:16.500 --> 01:04:20.659
year, 2026, directed by Pauly Finley. This is

01:04:20.659 --> 01:04:23.840
a movie starring, I think it's Isabel Hooper.

01:04:23.960 --> 01:04:28.059
I might be wrong about that. And Siren Hines.

01:04:28.500 --> 01:04:30.880
And they are all. Also an older couple that travels

01:04:30.880 --> 01:04:33.840
to Amsterdam for a vacation. And in it, they

01:04:33.840 --> 01:04:37.380
both uncover some pretty dark secrets that make

01:04:37.380 --> 01:04:40.980
them question their relationship. I'm going to

01:04:40.980 --> 01:04:42.619
go ahead and say I haven't seen this movie. I

01:04:42.619 --> 01:04:44.639
have a lot of interest in it. But the setup to

01:04:44.639 --> 01:04:46.059
it while I was watching Doddsworth was like,

01:04:46.119 --> 01:04:47.719
oh, man, this sounds so much like that movie

01:04:47.719 --> 01:04:50.019
I want to see in midwinter break. Did some research

01:04:50.019 --> 01:04:52.900
into it. And the idea of a couple being traveling

01:04:52.900 --> 01:04:55.079
across country to, like, different locations

01:04:55.079 --> 01:04:59.260
and dealing with the mortality of their relationship

01:04:59.260 --> 01:05:03.260
and their marriage, I thought, resembled so much

01:05:03.260 --> 01:05:05.340
of what's in Doddsworth that I want to go and

01:05:05.340 --> 01:05:08.199
cite this. Yeah. Midwinter break. That's awesome.

01:05:10.579 --> 01:05:12.239
Anything that you compare to this, I'm like,

01:05:12.320 --> 01:05:14.860
oh, I want to check that out. Which, again, I

01:05:14.860 --> 01:05:16.679
haven't seen it, but just from the synopsis and

01:05:16.679 --> 01:05:19.380
what I've seen of it, sounds so similar to this.

01:05:19.579 --> 01:05:22.400
And in tone, I imagine it's pretty matched. Doesn't

01:05:22.400 --> 01:05:25.039
seem like a comedy, I'll say that. I love not

01:05:25.039 --> 01:05:29.619
a comedy, Ryan. So I had something written down,

01:05:29.659 --> 01:05:31.179
but I'm going to end up saving it. I think this

01:05:31.179 --> 01:05:33.179
is the third time I've crossed it out and gone

01:05:33.179 --> 01:05:35.559
with something else. But just as you were talking,

01:05:35.860 --> 01:05:39.460
I decided to go with Wong Kar Wai's... 2000 film,

01:05:39.579 --> 01:05:42.039
In the Mood for Love. Yeah. Have you seen that

01:05:42.039 --> 01:05:44.000
movie? I haven't, but I'm so familiar with the

01:05:44.000 --> 01:05:48.500
visuals of it. Man, I love that movie. It is

01:05:48.500 --> 01:05:53.420
two people who are in current relationships with

01:05:53.420 --> 01:05:56.780
other people and they meet each other and slowly

01:05:56.780 --> 01:06:00.559
start to, you know, get close to each other,

01:06:00.679 --> 01:06:05.039
but they never move past a certain point. And

01:06:05.039 --> 01:06:07.670
I think it is just a... Beautiful example of

01:06:07.670 --> 01:06:11.349
like two people that are on very different paths.

01:06:12.010 --> 01:06:14.570
And if just like one thing was different, maybe

01:06:14.570 --> 01:06:17.190
things would work out. And I don't, you know,

01:06:17.210 --> 01:06:19.150
that's not a one -to -one here, but I think the

01:06:19.150 --> 01:06:22.630
emotion that it captures is very similar to things

01:06:22.630 --> 01:06:24.769
in Doddsworth. I'm really excited to see it.

01:06:24.789 --> 01:06:26.750
I've heard all the praise for it, and I've seen

01:06:26.750 --> 01:06:29.449
the criterion for it pretty often. Yeah. So I'm

01:06:29.449 --> 01:06:32.690
very excited to get into it. Is it one we'll

01:06:32.690 --> 01:06:35.389
talk about for, not best picture, but was it

01:06:35.389 --> 01:06:39.090
international? I honestly, I don't know. You

01:06:39.090 --> 01:06:42.280
know what? I got it right here. Nope. Okay. Well,

01:06:42.420 --> 01:06:45.519
it wasn't nominated, but it is something I'm

01:06:45.519 --> 01:06:49.880
excited to visit. So good. So good. I know we

01:06:49.880 --> 01:06:52.219
ran long on this one, but I think it was very

01:06:52.219 --> 01:06:56.079
exciting to talk about something like this. This

01:06:56.079 --> 01:06:58.280
is a movie that I anticipated us to talk about

01:06:58.280 --> 01:07:03.360
in the 80s, 90s, 2000s. Yeah. Not in 1936. So

01:07:03.360 --> 01:07:06.260
very cool. I think this is a diamond in the rough.

01:07:06.719 --> 01:07:09.360
I don't mean that to say these movies suck. I

01:07:09.360 --> 01:07:11.800
think it's just more so this is just a standout

01:07:11.800 --> 01:07:14.320
that we weren't going to see very much of in

01:07:14.320 --> 01:07:17.360
this time or to come. We had a rough spell for

01:07:17.360 --> 01:07:18.960
a little while, and I think this has helped me,

01:07:19.059 --> 01:07:22.000
especially. So it's a diamond in the rough in

01:07:22.000 --> 01:07:24.219
two ways, because you're right about that. But

01:07:24.219 --> 01:07:26.199
the other side, too, is that it's just one of

01:07:26.199 --> 01:07:27.769
these things that's not like the other. This

01:07:27.769 --> 01:07:30.010
is a very different movie for the Academy. And

01:07:30.010 --> 01:07:32.590
I love that. At the time, at least. Absolutely.

01:07:32.650 --> 01:07:36.010
I agree. So the next film we will be covering

01:07:36.010 --> 01:07:40.829
is Libeled Lady from 1936 as well. And this features

01:07:40.829 --> 01:07:46.489
two of our favorite actors and just their chemistry

01:07:46.489 --> 01:07:49.889
together. infallible also some i don't want to

01:07:49.889 --> 01:07:52.110
say introductions but some people that are going

01:07:52.110 --> 01:07:54.909
to be very important yeah so we'll we'll talk

01:07:54.909 --> 01:07:57.369
about them uh liable lady i'm very excited to

01:07:57.369 --> 01:07:59.010
talk about and that will be our next episode

01:07:59.010 --> 01:08:04.769
yes so uh emails all of your thoughts at outaopodcast

01:08:04.769 --> 01:08:07.469
at gmail .com and if you would like to support

01:08:07.469 --> 01:08:11.429
the show check out patreon .com slash outaopodcast

01:08:11.429 --> 01:08:13.949
you're able to support us but also you have access

01:08:13.949 --> 01:08:17.760
to all of our fun bonus material But that's going

01:08:17.760 --> 01:08:20.899
to do it. As always, I'm Kyle. I'm Ryan. And

01:08:20.899 --> 01:08:22.560
we'll see you at the movies.