Hello everybody and welcome back to Fiddle Dee
Dee. Today we are going to be talking about the
book and it's a question that I've seen a lot
of people talk about. The question is whether
Ashley Wilkes leads Scarlett on. So this would
mean that he kind of leads her to believe that
she has a chance with him. and that he doesn't
love Melanie. So we're going to be examining
today whether he really is responsible in any
way for the way Scarlett pursues him. Because
I have seen a lot of people in this fandom who
hate Ashley. They think that he is just a terrible
character, such a schmuck, pathetic. It kind
of strikes me as odd because I do like Ashley,
but I wanted to know where these people were
coming from. So I chose this topic today so I
could kind of go back and go over the scenes
where Ashley and Scarlett are together and analyze
those for anything that might be construed as
leading her on. I've also seen people defend
Ashley before and say, no, he doesn't lead her
on at all. And weirdly enough, I think that the
book actually addresses this at certain points.
So we're going to go through all of Ashley's
major scenes in the book and kind of talk about
whether he was right or wrong in the way that
he handled things and also how he really feels
about Scarlett and Melanie. So let's start from
the very beginning. So the first we hear about
Ashley is. in a scene he's not present it's where
scarlet is kind of thinking back to when she
first fell in love with him he compliments her
on looking grown up he comes home from europe
and admires her and he spends time with her every
week and this apparently makes her think oh he's
in love with me so obviously they seem like they
are kind of dating but then scarlet obviously
too spends time with a lot of different bows
around Tara so it's possible that what they had
was truly innocent it's kind of hard to tell
in Scarlett's point of view at this point but
the first time we actually see Ashley is at the
barbecue and he's not paying any attention to
Scarlett he spends the whole time with Melanie
he doesn't join her circle of admirers and then
when he goes and he actually talks to her He
looks at Charles with pity in his eyes when Scarlett
says something ignorant. So this is an interesting
part. It kind of makes it seem like Ashley is
pitying Charles for being in love with Scarlett
because possibly he is also in love with Scarlett.
Or it could just be he pities Charles for loving
someone who obviously is not in love with him.
It's really hard to tell. which it is at this
point. But then let's go on to the library scene,
which is the biggest scene with Ashley in the
beginning of the book. So Scarlett obviously
tells Ashley, I'm in love with you, and I want
you to marry me instead of Melanie, and I want
you to run away with me right now. And we know
Scarlett's being ridiculous in this scene, that
it was a pipe dream, that she was kind of out
of touch with reality and what Ashley wanted
and who he really was. That is definitely...
Definitely what this scene leads us to believe.
However, some people criticize in this scene
the way that Ashley approaches her. They think
that maybe he should have been more firm, that
he should have just told Scarlett straight up,
like, hey, I'm in love with my soon -to -be wife
and I'm not interested. So let's look at what
he says. he teases her. Isn't it enough? You've
collected every other man's heart here today.
You've always had my heart. You cut your teeth
on it. And then he says, when she asks him if
he cares about her, he says, yes. He said, Dully,
I care. Now, this is kind of a weird line because
he could just be saying, I care for you in a
platonic way, or he could be kind of mentally
anguished and dull and feeling like, oh, I'm
attracted to her, but I don't know what that
means. So he just doesn't know how he feels about
Scarlet himself at this point. It could also
be that. But whatever it is, Scarlet later in
the novel ends up interpreting this line as,
oh, you told me you loved me that day, when all
he really said was that he cared. And those are
not technically the same thing so that's another
thing is does Ashley actually care about Scarlett
so let's keep going in this scene he tells her
he's going to marry Melanie he says must you
make me say things that will hurt you so this
kind of implies that he doesn't want to hurt
her and that he is just trying to let her down
easy by telling her oh you know you're you're
such a wonderful person Scarlett How could I
help loving you because you have such a zest
for life and all of this? Just paying her these
extravagant compliments. But it seems like it's
kind of in a way to make her feel like she is
not that she's not good enough for him, but that
he could never love her in the way that she wants.
So personally. I don't have an issue with Ashley
in this scene in particular. I think that he
definitely shows that he is marrying Melanie
out of convenience, which isn't great and maybe
doesn't give the best impression to Scarlett.
But I think that he is being truthful here when
he's telling her, hey, I can't marry you. And
I think that him saying he cares is not the same
as him saying that he loves her. And then later.
She tells him he leads her on and he tells her
to be fair. And then here's just a direct quote
from the novel. He had never once crossed the
borders of friendliness with her. And when she
thought of this, fresh anger rose. The anger
of her pride and feminine vanity. She had run
after him and he would have none of her. He preferred
a whey -faced little fool like Melanie to her.
Okay, so this is what Scarlett... concedes in
her mind that he did not lead her on even though
the book flat out states oh you made me believe
you were going to marry me scarlet and ashley
both say to themselves oh he never did that so
i think what the book wants you to believe at
least at this point is that ashley did not lead
scarlet on now let's go deeper into the book
and see if that's still true later so weirdly
enough um Ashley has no real dialogue at his
wedding, so the next time we see him is at the
Christmas furlough. This is when he comes home
to Atlanta and Scarlett is there. When he greets
her, he says, Oh, Scarlet, you pretty, pretty
thing. Now, Ashley's a war hero. He's just come
home, probably has a lot of trauma, and he is
happy to see Scarlet. So maybe we can't really
fault him for what he says or doesn't say right
there. But then later, after he spent some time
in Atlanta and he's saying goodbye to Scarlet,
the first time he's alone with her, he really
does start complimenting her all over again.
He says, Scarlet, Scarlet, you are so fine and
strong and good, so beautiful. Not just your
sweet face, my dear, but all of you, your body
and your mind and your soul. And then he goes
on and says, I like to think that perhaps I know
you better than most people and that I can see
beautiful things buried deep in you that others
are too careless and too hurried to notice. Okay,
so I think Ashley's being genuine here and he
really does care about Scarlet and believes everything
that he says. So at this point, He knows that
Scarlett is in love with him. And he is still
paying her these compliments, which kind of goes
into the realm of, oh, maybe you should not be
saying this. Because Scarlett, if she had the
opportunity at this point, would definitely just
take Ashley away. She's unmarried. She's Charles's
widow. She's not really thinking forward to what
divorce would mean and how they would even go
about doing that. But she, in her mind, would
cheat with him over Melanie, at least as far
as like kissing, because she really wants him.
And he obviously must know that because she gave
him a beautiful gift, a sash. And she's super
nice around him. Now, maybe Ashley. thinks oh
she married someone else and i married someone
else so obviously scarlet knows that we can't
be together at this point but even so i think
that he should have been more cautious if that's
where his mind is at because she's this young
girl and he's an older guy and he's married to
melanie and he the last time he saw her they
didn't really part on good terms um at least
before the wedding she slapped him across the
face So in this situation, I think that he really
should not be so complimentary. And then obviously
the scene gets worse because Scarlett says, kiss
me goodbye. And it says his arms went around
her gently and he bent his head to her face.
At the first touch of his lips on hers, her arms
were about his neck and a strangling grip. So
this is Scarlett. I mean, she is initiating this
make out. I mean, he kisses her, but she asked
him to. For a fleeting, immeasurable instant,
he pressed her body close to his. Then she felt
a sudden tensing of all his muscles. Swiftly,
he dropped the hat to the floor and, reaching
up, detached her arms from his neck. No, Scarlet,
no, he said in a low voice, holding her crossed
wrists in a grip that hurt. And then she confesses,
I love you, and he just says goodbye and leaves.
And she feels that written on his face were his
love for her and joy that she loved him, but
battling them both were shame and despair. So
this kiss that they share here at the Christmas
furlough is obviously wrong. Even if Ashley doesn't
lead Scarlett on, this scene is obviously wrong.
And he is at fault here because he's married.
She's not. And he could easily have pushed her
away. Scarlett is at fault, too. I'm not saying
she's not. But. this scene convinces scarlet
that he is in love with her like him wanting
to kiss her she thinks of that as something romantic
and not something as purely sexual which is for
ashley it probably is however this scene i think
kind of implies he is a little bit in love with
her too i mean prior to it he gave her all these
compliments he thinks she's sweet and kind And
full of fire and energy. And he really admires
her. And he thinks she's beautiful. He always
calls her beautiful. So Ashley at this point
might really love Scarlett. Or at least the image
he has of her in his head. And that's where we're
kind of going to be going for the rest of this.
Because it is entirely possible that he... is
the same as scarlet he doesn't realize who he's
really in love with he's just in love with this
fantasy that he has of another person without
seeing them as they really are it's hard to tell
without ashley's point of view um but we'll talk
about that more when we get to the end so the
next scene between them um is a huge jump in
time ahead it's After a bunch of stuff has happened,
Scarlet is a changed person, and they are at
Tara after facing starvation and defeat, poverty,
all of this awful stuff they've been through.
And Ashley is coming home from the war, where
I'm sure he saw a lot of horrors. So they are
at Tara, and we all kind of know what happens
in the paddock. They have this little makeout
scene, but let's look at what they say to each
other during this scene. okay so scarlet comes
to him for help about the taxes and he really
wants nothing to do with that he doesn't know
how to help and he's like i don't know what to
do i don't know how to help you um which irritates
scarlet but then as soon as they start talking
about love and running away together scarlet
becomes passionate again and she wants to convince
him to go to mexico with her or whatever So he
comforts her when she starts to cry. He says,
dear, my brave dear, don't you mustn't cry. And
before that, she tries to get him to tell her
that he loves her. And he says, no, I don't love
you. So obviously that is not leading her on.
But then it continues. She says, that's a lie.
And he says, even if it is a lie, it is not something
which can be discussed. So I think we kind of
have our answer here. Ashley is in love with
Scarlett, or at least he thinks he is. Because
if it was a lie, then he would just say, or if
it wasn't a lie, he would say, oh, no, I really
don't love you. I actually love Melanie. So clearly
he is in denial about really loving Melanie and
not loving Scarlett. In a way, at least. I mean,
I'm sure that when he's with Melanie, he does.
admire her and i guess he really does love her
but somehow he doesn't construe it as romantic
it's really hard to tell without ashley's point
of view where he's coming from in terms of melanie
but i think we can tell from this little line
here even if it is a lie that he feels he is
in love with scarlet and then obviously they
start kissing and then that convinces Scarlett
even more that Ashley will run away with her
and that he wants her it's only um loyalty and
reputation and stuff that keeps him with Melanie
um and then when you look at that it is a little
harder to fault Scarlett obviously she is awful
for doing this because Melanie's been so good
to her she knows how much Melanie loves Ashley
um and that she shouldn't be trying to take her
husband away. She knows better than that. But
Ashley really is making her think that her fantasies
about being in love with him are true. These
are two people who have these idealized images
of each other in their heads, and they want to
act on them, but they have absolutely no idea
what they are talking about and who the other
person really is. I think that from this scene,
we can kind of construe that Ashley now kind
of is leading her on. It's a little shakier at
the Christmas furlough. We're not really sure
what's going on there. But here we know, you
know, for sure that he is in love with her. And
in case there is any doubt, at the end of the
scene, she says, fine, or he says, fine, I'll
say it. I love you. I love you, your courage
and your stubbornness and your fire and your
utter ruthlessness. How much do I love you? So
much that a moment ago I would have outraged
the hospitality of the house which has sheltered
me and my family, forgotten the best wife any
man ever had, enough to take you here in the
mud like a... So, he tells Scarlet that he loves
her. And of course, that's... completely leading
her on so even if he wasn't before he now is
this is probably Ashley's worst moment in the
book I think but he won't leave Melanie for her
he is too much in denial about how much he loves
Melanie and he also just knows it's wrong he
doesn't want to have an affair with scarlet whereas
she is really willing to but because he won't
completely break it off because he still will
compliment her and such it's hard to really sympathize
from that point so let's go on to the next scene
that ashley is in um not the next scene he's
in but the next where they really have a conversation
so scarlet has married frank and she comes back
to Tara briefly while pregnant with Ella because
Gerald has died. So she needs to attend his funeral.
And while she is there, she asks Ashley to partner
with her in her sawmill. She says that she'll
give him half the business, that she'll make
allowances for him. She's giving him a job, a
way to come home for Melanie. And he tells her
that he cannot do it partially because he cannot
trust himself around her. So that's referencing
something that happened between them in the past.
He's trying to be completely honest with her,
but I think that with... Ashley he needs to realize
honesty with Scarlett is not the best policy
because Scarlett is taking that as oh he still
harbors this hidden love for me and I can get
him to run away with me eventually I can get
him to want to marry me we still have this deep
love for each other and it's so romantic and
passionate and sweet so if Ashley had just not
said anything at all and not been honest then
she might have been able to let him go. Like,
if he really cared about not having an affair,
then he should have just told her, hey, I love
Melanie. He should have completely lied to her
and not been as honorable as he thinks that he
has to be. And he also pays her compliments still.
Scarlett talks about how she's really ashamed
to let him see her because she's pregnant and
she feels ugly and like she's betrayed him. And
he says, damn your looks, you're always beautiful
to me. So that is even more passion and even
more leading her on because he Maybe he doesn't
realize he is. I think that what's important
to Ashley is always being genuine, always really
expressing where his heart comes from. And I
think that there are people like that in this
world who really don't realize that sometimes
the best way to be honorable is to lie so that
you don't make other people feel like they have
a chance at something they have absolutely no
chance at because we know he's never going to
leave Melanie for her. so poor scarlet here well
not poor scarlet exactly she shouldn't have been
carrying on after this married man but you do
pity her a little bit in this scene because ashley
is just feeding into the narrative over and over
so you can kind of understand where both of them
are coming from but i think that ashley at this
point really if he was committed to staying with
Melanie needed to not say anything anymore just
stop talking to Scarlett in such a lover -like
way okay so obviously Melanie comes in Ashley
is convinced to come to Atlanta but he's not
happy there he hates running the sawmill Scarlett
is less and less impressed with him and she sees
how unhappy he is and wants to fix it but doesn't
know how so then let's move on to The next big
scene between them. Which is after Scarlett has
married Rhett. After Scarlett marries Rhett.
She has Bonnie. And the first time that she goes
back to the mill. Ashley kind of confesses to
her that he's jealous. Somewhat. So let's see
what happens in this scene. Hold on just a second.
Okay. So Scarlett starts talking about the convicts
and how Ashley needs to be harsher with them,
give them a couple of good licks and so on, and
just really awful things. And Ashley is convinced
that it is Rhett who has made her this way. So
up to this point, Scarlett's always been sweet
and charming around him. She's never really shown
this other side of her, or at least Ashley has
never noticed it. But now that he is noticing
how ruthless she can be, He feels that it is
Rhett Butler who is to blame, that because he's
her husband, he's kind of turned her into the
same person that he is. And he accuses him of
brutalizing her. So if we look at this scene,
just as Scarlett sees it, it is kind of like,
oh, Ashley, you are. putting your nose in into
matters that have absolutely nothing to do with
you and you're just jealous. And he does say
that he can't stand to think of Rhett touching
Scarlett. So that kind of implies that the two
of them being together drives him crazy. At least
that's how Scarlett takes it, too, because she,
after this, is so touched by what he said and
just feels it was so romantic that she tells
Rhett she wants to kick him out of her bedroom.
So Ashley definitely caused a rift in their marriage.
But I am going to take a second here to kind
of defend Ashley. So from Ashley's perspective,
Scarlett is this sweet girl who is in love with
him. And Rhett Butler is somebody that he knows
was a food speculator during the war, who he
thinks never fought in the army, which to him
is bad. He knows that Rhett owns a brothel. He's
a murderer. And more recently, he convinced Scarlett
to change the sign on her store to something
that meant let the buyer beware. And she did
it out of ignorance. So that is a direct incident
that Ashley is involved in because he's the one
who tells Scarlett what it really means. And
I think that this scene kind of hints at the
fact that Ashley knows or thinks Rhett mistreats
his wife. He thinks that Rhett is awful to Scarlett,
that Scarlett just married him for money and
he's a really bad person and she's a really good
person. So obviously he's a little delusional
because Scarlett is just as bad as Rhett in many
respects and they are quite similar people. But
you can kind of see from his perspective why
he's unhappy. However, it doesn't make it right
because he causes this rift that drives the two
of them apart. And obviously, Scarlett and Rhett,
it's their fault too. They don't know how to
handle things between the two of them. But just
talking in terms of Ashley Wilkes, he definitely
crossed a boundary here. And he does seem to
know that because he says, I apologize most humbly,
Scarlet. I've been insinuating that your husband
is not a gentleman, and my own words have proved
that I'm not one. No one has a right to criticize
a husband to a wife. I haven't any excuse except,
except, I haven't any excuse at all. And then
it says, all the way home in the carriage, Scarlet's
mind raced. No excuse at all except, except that
he loved her. So here we go again. He's done
yet another thing that makes her think he's in
love with her. But from Ashley's perspective,
he is in love with Scarlett. So let's go on to
the mill scene. This is the scene where they
get caught together and Atlanta believes that
the two of them are committing adultery. Even
though it never really went that far, it's more
been an emotional affair. that Ashley most of
the time refuses to reciprocate. At the same
time, they were caught hugging. Now, to put this
in a modern perspective, if you were convinced
that, let's say you're India Wilkes. Say you're
convinced that your sister -in -law's sister
-in -law is in love with your brother and that
they are having some sort of affair. or at least
you suspect, and then you walk into a room where
the two of them are hugging, and there's nobody
else in the room with them, and it's not a brief
hug. They are standing there, it seems, embracing
each other. You might think it was kind of weird.
Now, when you read the scene, it is pretty innocent.
He's mostly just comforting her while she cries,
and perhaps a hug befits their long friendship
that they purportedly had. I understand why India
jumped to the conclusion that she did, and it
kind of makes sense because they did make out
in the past, so maybe they should face some consequences
for that. Even though they hadn't been doing
anything in this scene, it was only a matter
of time before they had to pay for what they
did in the past, if you believe in karmic justice
like that. So, this scene, really, I don't think
Ashley... does lead her on in i think it's way
more of an innocent scene they have a kind of
a deep conversation for scarlet about where they
are trying to get in life and the past and what
it means to them and such but the hug that they
had was really just supposed to be a comforting
one and i think at this point scarlet has a turning
point because ashley doesn't do anything about
the scandal And Ashley, too, also kind of has
a turning point, most likely. He probably realizes
that he is more in love with Melanie than he
thought because we never see him and Scarlett
together in a big scene again until Melanie dies.
Well, actually, we do have a scene where they
are with Rhett and Melanie together and they're
all talking. But I mean, like a scene alone together
doesn't come again until the ending of the book.
So let's look at the ending of the book because
this is when Scarlett makes all of her realizations
about how she really feels about Rhett. But before
that, she realizes that Ashley really loves Melanie.
So let's take a look about what love really means
in this book. Being in love with someone is not
the same as loving somebody in a platonic way,
according to this book. But it's a little confusing
because does Ashley really love Melanie as a
wife or just as his protector for everything
that she's done for him? And obviously he was
delusional about Scarlett. But was he in love
with Scarlett too? Was he genuine? Was Scarlett
genuine? Those are all pretty big questions.
And you have to go back and think about what
love really, really means. But what the book
tells us, let's see. It says, Oh, Ashley, men
are supposed to know such things, not women.
You should have seen so clearly that you loved
her all the time and only wanted me like Rhett
wants that Watling woman. So is this fair to
say? I have to wonder because it does seem to
me that from the previous passages we've read.
Ashley really was in love with Scarlett, and
he at least thought he was. He didn't understand
who she really was, but that's kind of the same
as Scarlett being in love with Ashley. And maybe
he mixed up that romantic love with just being
physically attracted to her. Maybe he mixed the
two of those things up in his mind, but I don't
think that it was intentional. I don't think
that he was just messing with her. I think that
he really thought, he was in love and that Scarlett
was a really good person and that the two of
them could be in love without doing anything
and that wouldn't make it wrong. So here's what
I think. I think, yes, in a way, Ashley does
lead Scarlett on. He does give her hope about
a relationship that's never going to happen.
But I think this was not done out of any sort
of malice. I think. that Ashley was not intending
to play with Scarlett. Normally, when we think
of somebody leading someone on, we think about
somebody who just thinks that it's fun to play
with people's emotions and kind of make them
fall in love with you, even if you don't feel
the same way. I don't think Ashley is doing that.
I think that he really thinks that he loves Scarlett,
but he doesn't really understand her in the same
way she doesn't understand him. So does that
make it great? No. Ashley, like I said, he's
one of those people who truly believes that if
you feel a certain way about somebody, you should
be honest with them about it because that's what
your honor leads you to do. And like I said,
he shouldn't have been honest with her as far
as he knew about thinking she was beautiful and
always complimenting her and calling her sweet
and wonderful and brave because that gave her
hope for something that wasn't going to happen.
And at the end of the day, he did kind of cheat
on his wife, not all the way, but somewhat of
the way. And this emotional affair he was having
was definitely morally wrong, especially considering
the person Melanie was. She was wonderful to
both Scarlett and Ashley, and they didn't treat
her that well behind her back. But... I think
that Ashley was aware of that. I think he knew
that what he was doing was wrong and he wanted
to distance himself from Scarlett when he was
trying to get away from Atlanta. He was trying
to take his wife and son to New York, but then
Melanie wanted to go to Atlanta and he placated
her in that way and bowed to what she thought.
I don't think Ashley made the right decisions
all the time, but I think it was mostly because
he was weak and because he didn't understand
people very well. That is kind of my thought
on him. Do I think that he led Scarlett on? Yes,
but I think he did so unintentionally. I don't
think he was a bad person, but I think he made
a lot of terrible decisions and that he should
have been more firm with Scarlett in telling
her that, hey, I'm not interested and I'm not
going to leave my wife for you. Looking at all
of these scenes in the book, you can kind of
understand Scarlett a little better. You can
see where she is coming from. And you can see
where he is coming from. And because they had
these idealized images of each other in their
heads, it all turned out to be this huge mess
where nobody is really aware of who they truly
love. So, of course, we all know that. But that
is my final thesis on Ashley. I hope you enjoyed.
I've seen a lot of people who hate him. I've
seen people who like him. But I'm very curious
to know what everybody else thinks. So thank
you for listening. If you got this far, see you
next time.