WEBVTT 00:00:00.360 --> 00:00:03.580 Hello everybody and welcome back to Fiddle Dee 00:00:03.580 --> 00:00:06.599 Dee. Today we are going to be talking about the 00:00:06.599 --> 00:00:10.140 book and it's a question that I've seen a lot 00:00:10.140 --> 00:00:13.019 of people talk about. The question is whether 00:00:13.019 --> 00:00:17.420 Ashley Wilkes leads Scarlett on. So this would 00:00:17.420 --> 00:00:20.579 mean that he kind of leads her to believe that 00:00:20.579 --> 00:00:24.260 she has a chance with him. and that he doesn't 00:00:24.260 --> 00:00:27.000 love Melanie. So we're going to be examining 00:00:27.000 --> 00:00:31.199 today whether he really is responsible in any 00:00:31.199 --> 00:00:33.820 way for the way Scarlett pursues him. Because 00:00:33.820 --> 00:00:36.960 I have seen a lot of people in this fandom who 00:00:36.960 --> 00:00:41.060 hate Ashley. They think that he is just a terrible 00:00:41.060 --> 00:00:46.479 character, such a schmuck, pathetic. It kind 00:00:46.479 --> 00:00:48.920 of strikes me as odd because I do like Ashley, 00:00:49.100 --> 00:00:51.100 but I wanted to know where these people were 00:00:51.100 --> 00:00:53.420 coming from. So I chose this topic today so I 00:00:53.420 --> 00:00:55.840 could kind of go back and go over the scenes 00:00:55.840 --> 00:00:59.259 where Ashley and Scarlett are together and analyze 00:00:59.259 --> 00:01:03.460 those for anything that might be construed as 00:01:03.460 --> 00:01:06.239 leading her on. I've also seen people defend 00:01:06.239 --> 00:01:08.340 Ashley before and say, no, he doesn't lead her 00:01:08.340 --> 00:01:10.640 on at all. And weirdly enough, I think that the 00:01:10.640 --> 00:01:12.819 book actually addresses this at certain points. 00:01:13.310 --> 00:01:15.810 So we're going to go through all of Ashley's 00:01:15.810 --> 00:01:19.409 major scenes in the book and kind of talk about 00:01:19.409 --> 00:01:21.950 whether he was right or wrong in the way that 00:01:21.950 --> 00:01:24.810 he handled things and also how he really feels 00:01:24.810 --> 00:01:29.469 about Scarlett and Melanie. So let's start from 00:01:29.469 --> 00:01:32.530 the very beginning. So the first we hear about 00:01:32.530 --> 00:01:36.680 Ashley is. in a scene he's not present it's where 00:01:36.680 --> 00:01:38.939 scarlet is kind of thinking back to when she 00:01:38.939 --> 00:01:41.840 first fell in love with him he compliments her 00:01:41.840 --> 00:01:45.140 on looking grown up he comes home from europe 00:01:45.140 --> 00:01:48.579 and admires her and he spends time with her every 00:01:48.579 --> 00:01:52.540 week and this apparently makes her think oh he's 00:01:52.540 --> 00:01:58.379 in love with me so obviously they seem like they 00:01:58.379 --> 00:02:01.519 are kind of dating but then scarlet obviously 00:02:01.519 --> 00:02:04.459 too spends time with a lot of different bows 00:02:04.459 --> 00:02:09.539 around Tara so it's possible that what they had 00:02:09.539 --> 00:02:11.860 was truly innocent it's kind of hard to tell 00:02:11.860 --> 00:02:15.800 in Scarlett's point of view at this point but 00:02:15.800 --> 00:02:19.620 the first time we actually see Ashley is at the 00:02:19.620 --> 00:02:21.939 barbecue and he's not paying any attention to 00:02:21.939 --> 00:02:23.819 Scarlett he spends the whole time with Melanie 00:02:23.819 --> 00:02:26.900 he doesn't join her circle of admirers and then 00:02:26.900 --> 00:02:30.729 when he goes and he actually talks to her He 00:02:30.729 --> 00:02:35.250 looks at Charles with pity in his eyes when Scarlett 00:02:35.250 --> 00:02:38.849 says something ignorant. So this is an interesting 00:02:38.849 --> 00:02:43.550 part. It kind of makes it seem like Ashley is 00:02:43.550 --> 00:02:46.289 pitying Charles for being in love with Scarlett 00:02:46.289 --> 00:02:49.889 because possibly he is also in love with Scarlett. 00:02:50.050 --> 00:02:54.229 Or it could just be he pities Charles for loving 00:02:54.229 --> 00:02:56.810 someone who obviously is not in love with him. 00:02:56.889 --> 00:03:00.680 It's really hard to tell. which it is at this 00:03:00.680 --> 00:03:03.120 point. But then let's go on to the library scene, 00:03:03.319 --> 00:03:06.219 which is the biggest scene with Ashley in the 00:03:06.219 --> 00:03:10.280 beginning of the book. So Scarlett obviously 00:03:10.280 --> 00:03:13.300 tells Ashley, I'm in love with you, and I want 00:03:13.300 --> 00:03:16.000 you to marry me instead of Melanie, and I want 00:03:16.000 --> 00:03:19.259 you to run away with me right now. And we know 00:03:19.259 --> 00:03:21.400 Scarlett's being ridiculous in this scene, that 00:03:21.400 --> 00:03:23.879 it was a pipe dream, that she was kind of out 00:03:23.879 --> 00:03:26.240 of touch with reality and what Ashley wanted 00:03:26.240 --> 00:03:28.379 and who he really was. That is definitely... 00:03:28.560 --> 00:03:31.039 Definitely what this scene leads us to believe. 00:03:31.560 --> 00:03:34.560 However, some people criticize in this scene 00:03:34.560 --> 00:03:38.939 the way that Ashley approaches her. They think 00:03:38.939 --> 00:03:42.080 that maybe he should have been more firm, that 00:03:42.080 --> 00:03:45.460 he should have just told Scarlett straight up, 00:03:45.479 --> 00:03:49.580 like, hey, I'm in love with my soon -to -be wife 00:03:49.580 --> 00:03:52.000 and I'm not interested. So let's look at what 00:03:52.000 --> 00:03:57.120 he says. he teases her. Isn't it enough? You've 00:03:57.120 --> 00:03:58.900 collected every other man's heart here today. 00:03:59.139 --> 00:04:01.639 You've always had my heart. You cut your teeth 00:04:01.639 --> 00:04:07.199 on it. And then he says, when she asks him if 00:04:07.199 --> 00:04:10.039 he cares about her, he says, yes. He said, Dully, 00:04:10.199 --> 00:04:15.419 I care. Now, this is kind of a weird line because 00:04:15.419 --> 00:04:18.680 he could just be saying, I care for you in a 00:04:18.680 --> 00:04:22.639 platonic way, or he could be kind of mentally 00:04:25.379 --> 00:04:29.060 anguished and dull and feeling like, oh, I'm 00:04:29.060 --> 00:04:31.180 attracted to her, but I don't know what that 00:04:31.180 --> 00:04:36.319 means. So he just doesn't know how he feels about 00:04:36.319 --> 00:04:39.000 Scarlet himself at this point. It could also 00:04:39.000 --> 00:04:43.300 be that. But whatever it is, Scarlet later in 00:04:43.300 --> 00:04:45.160 the novel ends up interpreting this line as, 00:04:45.199 --> 00:04:48.220 oh, you told me you loved me that day, when all 00:04:48.220 --> 00:04:51.920 he really said was that he cared. And those are 00:04:51.920 --> 00:04:57.250 not technically the same thing so that's another 00:04:57.250 --> 00:05:00.449 thing is does Ashley actually care about Scarlett 00:05:00.449 --> 00:05:04.470 so let's keep going in this scene he tells her 00:05:04.470 --> 00:05:07.310 he's going to marry Melanie he says must you 00:05:07.310 --> 00:05:10.110 make me say things that will hurt you so this 00:05:10.110 --> 00:05:12.649 kind of implies that he doesn't want to hurt 00:05:12.649 --> 00:05:15.389 her and that he is just trying to let her down 00:05:15.389 --> 00:05:19.329 easy by telling her oh you know you're you're 00:05:19.329 --> 00:05:22.579 such a wonderful person Scarlett How could I 00:05:22.579 --> 00:05:26.139 help loving you because you have such a zest 00:05:26.139 --> 00:05:28.699 for life and all of this? Just paying her these 00:05:28.699 --> 00:05:31.420 extravagant compliments. But it seems like it's 00:05:31.420 --> 00:05:35.480 kind of in a way to make her feel like she is 00:05:35.480 --> 00:05:40.399 not that she's not good enough for him, but that 00:05:40.399 --> 00:05:43.000 he could never love her in the way that she wants. 00:05:43.819 --> 00:05:48.290 So personally. I don't have an issue with Ashley 00:05:48.290 --> 00:05:51.470 in this scene in particular. I think that he 00:05:51.470 --> 00:05:55.810 definitely shows that he is marrying Melanie 00:05:55.810 --> 00:05:59.209 out of convenience, which isn't great and maybe 00:05:59.209 --> 00:06:01.149 doesn't give the best impression to Scarlett. 00:06:01.269 --> 00:06:04.149 But I think that he is being truthful here when 00:06:04.149 --> 00:06:07.069 he's telling her, hey, I can't marry you. And 00:06:07.069 --> 00:06:10.009 I think that him saying he cares is not the same 00:06:10.009 --> 00:06:13.889 as him saying that he loves her. And then later. 00:06:14.959 --> 00:06:18.060 She tells him he leads her on and he tells her 00:06:18.060 --> 00:06:21.620 to be fair. And then here's just a direct quote 00:06:21.620 --> 00:06:23.800 from the novel. He had never once crossed the 00:06:23.800 --> 00:06:25.939 borders of friendliness with her. And when she 00:06:25.939 --> 00:06:28.360 thought of this, fresh anger rose. The anger 00:06:28.360 --> 00:06:31.579 of her pride and feminine vanity. She had run 00:06:31.579 --> 00:06:34.439 after him and he would have none of her. He preferred 00:06:34.439 --> 00:06:36.759 a whey -faced little fool like Melanie to her. 00:06:37.839 --> 00:06:42.449 Okay, so this is what Scarlett... concedes in 00:06:42.449 --> 00:06:45.509 her mind that he did not lead her on even though 00:06:45.509 --> 00:06:48.769 the book flat out states oh you made me believe 00:06:48.769 --> 00:06:51.689 you were going to marry me scarlet and ashley 00:06:51.689 --> 00:06:54.250 both say to themselves oh he never did that so 00:06:54.250 --> 00:06:56.769 i think what the book wants you to believe at 00:06:56.769 --> 00:06:59.009 least at this point is that ashley did not lead 00:06:59.009 --> 00:07:02.930 scarlet on now let's go deeper into the book 00:07:02.930 --> 00:07:06.410 and see if that's still true later so weirdly 00:07:06.410 --> 00:07:10.269 enough um Ashley has no real dialogue at his 00:07:10.269 --> 00:07:12.990 wedding, so the next time we see him is at the 00:07:12.990 --> 00:07:16.290 Christmas furlough. This is when he comes home 00:07:16.290 --> 00:07:21.009 to Atlanta and Scarlett is there. When he greets 00:07:21.009 --> 00:07:23.490 her, he says, Oh, Scarlet, you pretty, pretty 00:07:23.490 --> 00:07:26.569 thing. Now, Ashley's a war hero. He's just come 00:07:26.569 --> 00:07:29.889 home, probably has a lot of trauma, and he is 00:07:29.889 --> 00:07:32.250 happy to see Scarlet. So maybe we can't really 00:07:32.250 --> 00:07:34.509 fault him for what he says or doesn't say right 00:07:34.509 --> 00:07:37.470 there. But then later, after he spent some time 00:07:37.470 --> 00:07:39.990 in Atlanta and he's saying goodbye to Scarlet, 00:07:40.009 --> 00:07:42.910 the first time he's alone with her, he really 00:07:42.910 --> 00:07:46.110 does start complimenting her all over again. 00:07:46.149 --> 00:07:50.350 He says, Scarlet, Scarlet, you are so fine and 00:07:50.350 --> 00:07:53.310 strong and good, so beautiful. Not just your 00:07:53.310 --> 00:07:56.009 sweet face, my dear, but all of you, your body 00:07:56.009 --> 00:07:58.930 and your mind and your soul. And then he goes 00:07:58.930 --> 00:08:01.310 on and says, I like to think that perhaps I know 00:08:01.310 --> 00:08:03.389 you better than most people and that I can see 00:08:03.389 --> 00:08:06.110 beautiful things buried deep in you that others 00:08:06.110 --> 00:08:09.610 are too careless and too hurried to notice. Okay, 00:08:09.689 --> 00:08:11.730 so I think Ashley's being genuine here and he 00:08:11.730 --> 00:08:14.550 really does care about Scarlet and believes everything 00:08:14.550 --> 00:08:20.129 that he says. So at this point, He knows that 00:08:20.129 --> 00:08:24.269 Scarlett is in love with him. And he is still 00:08:24.269 --> 00:08:27.170 paying her these compliments, which kind of goes 00:08:27.170 --> 00:08:32.370 into the realm of, oh, maybe you should not be 00:08:32.370 --> 00:08:37.590 saying this. Because Scarlett, if she had the 00:08:37.590 --> 00:08:39.889 opportunity at this point, would definitely just 00:08:39.889 --> 00:08:42.509 take Ashley away. She's unmarried. She's Charles's 00:08:42.509 --> 00:08:46.440 widow. She's not really thinking forward to what 00:08:46.440 --> 00:08:48.799 divorce would mean and how they would even go 00:08:48.799 --> 00:08:54.399 about doing that. But she, in her mind, would 00:08:54.399 --> 00:08:57.919 cheat with him over Melanie, at least as far 00:08:57.919 --> 00:09:01.320 as like kissing, because she really wants him. 00:09:01.440 --> 00:09:05.259 And he obviously must know that because she gave 00:09:05.259 --> 00:09:09.639 him a beautiful gift, a sash. And she's super 00:09:09.639 --> 00:09:12.740 nice around him. Now, maybe Ashley. thinks oh 00:09:12.740 --> 00:09:14.419 she married someone else and i married someone 00:09:14.419 --> 00:09:17.639 else so obviously scarlet knows that we can't 00:09:17.639 --> 00:09:22.000 be together at this point but even so i think 00:09:22.000 --> 00:09:24.480 that he should have been more cautious if that's 00:09:24.480 --> 00:09:27.120 where his mind is at because she's this young 00:09:27.120 --> 00:09:30.779 girl and he's an older guy and he's married to 00:09:30.779 --> 00:09:35.700 melanie and he the last time he saw her they 00:09:35.700 --> 00:09:38.700 didn't really part on good terms um at least 00:09:38.700 --> 00:09:40.679 before the wedding she slapped him across the 00:09:40.679 --> 00:09:46.019 face So in this situation, I think that he really 00:09:46.019 --> 00:09:49.480 should not be so complimentary. And then obviously 00:09:49.480 --> 00:09:51.779 the scene gets worse because Scarlett says, kiss 00:09:51.779 --> 00:09:54.700 me goodbye. And it says his arms went around 00:09:54.700 --> 00:09:56.919 her gently and he bent his head to her face. 00:09:57.419 --> 00:10:00.279 At the first touch of his lips on hers, her arms 00:10:00.279 --> 00:10:02.620 were about his neck and a strangling grip. So 00:10:02.620 --> 00:10:07.080 this is Scarlett. I mean, she is initiating this 00:10:07.080 --> 00:10:10.120 make out. I mean, he kisses her, but she asked 00:10:10.120 --> 00:10:12.799 him to. For a fleeting, immeasurable instant, 00:10:12.860 --> 00:10:15.820 he pressed her body close to his. Then she felt 00:10:15.820 --> 00:10:18.460 a sudden tensing of all his muscles. Swiftly, 00:10:18.460 --> 00:10:20.480 he dropped the hat to the floor and, reaching 00:10:20.480 --> 00:10:23.700 up, detached her arms from his neck. No, Scarlet, 00:10:23.720 --> 00:10:25.919 no, he said in a low voice, holding her crossed 00:10:25.919 --> 00:10:29.860 wrists in a grip that hurt. And then she confesses, 00:10:29.860 --> 00:10:32.379 I love you, and he just says goodbye and leaves. 00:10:32.919 --> 00:10:36.360 And she feels that written on his face were his 00:10:36.360 --> 00:10:38.440 love for her and joy that she loved him, but 00:10:38.440 --> 00:10:42.259 battling them both were shame and despair. So 00:10:42.259 --> 00:10:44.720 this kiss that they share here at the Christmas 00:10:44.720 --> 00:10:48.320 furlough is obviously wrong. Even if Ashley doesn't 00:10:48.320 --> 00:10:50.539 lead Scarlett on, this scene is obviously wrong. 00:10:50.620 --> 00:10:52.899 And he is at fault here because he's married. 00:10:53.299 --> 00:10:56.299 She's not. And he could easily have pushed her 00:10:56.299 --> 00:10:58.539 away. Scarlett is at fault, too. I'm not saying 00:10:58.539 --> 00:11:04.429 she's not. But. this scene convinces scarlet 00:11:04.429 --> 00:11:07.090 that he is in love with her like him wanting 00:11:07.090 --> 00:11:10.309 to kiss her she thinks of that as something romantic 00:11:10.309 --> 00:11:13.990 and not something as purely sexual which is for 00:11:13.990 --> 00:11:18.929 ashley it probably is however this scene i think 00:11:18.929 --> 00:11:21.970 kind of implies he is a little bit in love with 00:11:21.970 --> 00:11:24.610 her too i mean prior to it he gave her all these 00:11:24.610 --> 00:11:27.789 compliments he thinks she's sweet and kind And 00:11:27.789 --> 00:11:30.590 full of fire and energy. And he really admires 00:11:30.590 --> 00:11:32.570 her. And he thinks she's beautiful. He always 00:11:32.570 --> 00:11:37.850 calls her beautiful. So Ashley at this point 00:11:37.850 --> 00:11:41.230 might really love Scarlett. Or at least the image 00:11:41.230 --> 00:11:44.009 he has of her in his head. And that's where we're 00:11:44.009 --> 00:11:46.129 kind of going to be going for the rest of this. 00:11:46.269 --> 00:11:52.059 Because it is entirely possible that he... is 00:11:52.059 --> 00:11:54.940 the same as scarlet he doesn't realize who he's 00:11:54.940 --> 00:11:57.399 really in love with he's just in love with this 00:11:57.399 --> 00:11:59.500 fantasy that he has of another person without 00:11:59.500 --> 00:12:02.539 seeing them as they really are it's hard to tell 00:12:02.539 --> 00:12:06.500 without ashley's point of view um but we'll talk 00:12:06.500 --> 00:12:10.139 about that more when we get to the end so the 00:12:10.139 --> 00:12:15.259 next scene between them um is a huge jump in 00:12:15.259 --> 00:12:18.230 time ahead it's After a bunch of stuff has happened, 00:12:18.350 --> 00:12:20.929 Scarlet is a changed person, and they are at 00:12:20.929 --> 00:12:25.110 Tara after facing starvation and defeat, poverty, 00:12:25.309 --> 00:12:28.090 all of this awful stuff they've been through. 00:12:28.570 --> 00:12:30.950 And Ashley is coming home from the war, where 00:12:30.950 --> 00:12:34.470 I'm sure he saw a lot of horrors. So they are 00:12:34.470 --> 00:12:36.830 at Tara, and we all kind of know what happens 00:12:36.830 --> 00:12:40.769 in the paddock. They have this little makeout 00:12:40.769 --> 00:12:42.950 scene, but let's look at what they say to each 00:12:42.950 --> 00:12:50.929 other during this scene. okay so scarlet comes 00:12:50.929 --> 00:12:55.070 to him for help about the taxes and he really 00:12:55.070 --> 00:12:58.809 wants nothing to do with that he doesn't know 00:12:58.809 --> 00:13:00.269 how to help and he's like i don't know what to 00:13:00.269 --> 00:13:03.149 do i don't know how to help you um which irritates 00:13:03.149 --> 00:13:05.929 scarlet but then as soon as they start talking 00:13:05.929 --> 00:13:08.309 about love and running away together scarlet 00:13:08.309 --> 00:13:11.710 becomes passionate again and she wants to convince 00:13:11.710 --> 00:13:15.409 him to go to mexico with her or whatever So he 00:13:15.409 --> 00:13:17.929 comforts her when she starts to cry. He says, 00:13:18.029 --> 00:13:21.769 dear, my brave dear, don't you mustn't cry. And 00:13:21.769 --> 00:13:24.950 before that, she tries to get him to tell her 00:13:24.950 --> 00:13:29.110 that he loves her. And he says, no, I don't love 00:13:29.110 --> 00:13:32.690 you. So obviously that is not leading her on. 00:13:32.769 --> 00:13:34.830 But then it continues. She says, that's a lie. 00:13:35.029 --> 00:13:38.110 And he says, even if it is a lie, it is not something 00:13:38.110 --> 00:13:41.070 which can be discussed. So I think we kind of 00:13:41.070 --> 00:13:43.509 have our answer here. Ashley is in love with 00:13:43.509 --> 00:13:45.990 Scarlett, or at least he thinks he is. Because 00:13:45.990 --> 00:13:51.809 if it was a lie, then he would just say, or if 00:13:51.809 --> 00:13:53.690 it wasn't a lie, he would say, oh, no, I really 00:13:53.690 --> 00:13:56.029 don't love you. I actually love Melanie. So clearly 00:13:56.029 --> 00:14:00.590 he is in denial about really loving Melanie and 00:14:00.590 --> 00:14:06.669 not loving Scarlett. In a way, at least. I mean, 00:14:06.690 --> 00:14:08.950 I'm sure that when he's with Melanie, he does. 00:14:09.579 --> 00:14:12.419 admire her and i guess he really does love her 00:14:12.419 --> 00:14:15.740 but somehow he doesn't construe it as romantic 00:14:15.740 --> 00:14:17.960 it's really hard to tell without ashley's point 00:14:17.960 --> 00:14:21.379 of view where he's coming from in terms of melanie 00:14:21.379 --> 00:14:23.419 but i think we can tell from this little line 00:14:23.419 --> 00:14:27.720 here even if it is a lie that he feels he is 00:14:27.720 --> 00:14:30.500 in love with scarlet and then obviously they 00:14:30.500 --> 00:14:34.029 start kissing and then that convinces Scarlett 00:14:34.029 --> 00:14:37.110 even more that Ashley will run away with her 00:14:37.110 --> 00:14:41.370 and that he wants her it's only um loyalty and 00:14:41.370 --> 00:14:43.730 reputation and stuff that keeps him with Melanie 00:14:43.730 --> 00:14:48.769 um and then when you look at that it is a little 00:14:48.769 --> 00:14:51.470 harder to fault Scarlett obviously she is awful 00:14:51.470 --> 00:14:53.590 for doing this because Melanie's been so good 00:14:53.590 --> 00:14:56.529 to her she knows how much Melanie loves Ashley 00:14:56.529 --> 00:15:00.860 um and that she shouldn't be trying to take her 00:15:00.860 --> 00:15:03.840 husband away. She knows better than that. But 00:15:03.840 --> 00:15:08.159 Ashley really is making her think that her fantasies 00:15:08.159 --> 00:15:11.299 about being in love with him are true. These 00:15:11.299 --> 00:15:15.259 are two people who have these idealized images 00:15:15.259 --> 00:15:18.200 of each other in their heads, and they want to 00:15:18.200 --> 00:15:21.600 act on them, but they have absolutely no idea 00:15:21.600 --> 00:15:25.200 what they are talking about and who the other 00:15:25.200 --> 00:15:31.940 person really is. I think that from this scene, 00:15:32.039 --> 00:15:35.019 we can kind of construe that Ashley now kind 00:15:35.019 --> 00:15:39.600 of is leading her on. It's a little shakier at 00:15:39.600 --> 00:15:41.419 the Christmas furlough. We're not really sure 00:15:41.419 --> 00:15:44.779 what's going on there. But here we know, you 00:15:44.779 --> 00:15:46.600 know, for sure that he is in love with her. And 00:15:46.600 --> 00:15:49.440 in case there is any doubt, at the end of the 00:15:49.440 --> 00:15:55.480 scene, she says, fine, or he says, fine, I'll 00:15:55.480 --> 00:15:58.370 say it. I love you. I love you, your courage 00:15:58.370 --> 00:16:00.250 and your stubbornness and your fire and your 00:16:00.250 --> 00:16:02.990 utter ruthlessness. How much do I love you? So 00:16:02.990 --> 00:16:05.110 much that a moment ago I would have outraged 00:16:05.110 --> 00:16:07.370 the hospitality of the house which has sheltered 00:16:07.370 --> 00:16:09.990 me and my family, forgotten the best wife any 00:16:09.990 --> 00:16:12.649 man ever had, enough to take you here in the 00:16:12.649 --> 00:16:18.049 mud like a... So, he tells Scarlet that he loves 00:16:18.049 --> 00:16:21.149 her. And of course, that's... completely leading 00:16:21.149 --> 00:16:24.690 her on so even if he wasn't before he now is 00:16:24.690 --> 00:16:27.669 this is probably Ashley's worst moment in the 00:16:27.669 --> 00:16:31.950 book I think but he won't leave Melanie for her 00:16:31.950 --> 00:16:35.629 he is too much in denial about how much he loves 00:16:35.629 --> 00:16:39.759 Melanie and he also just knows it's wrong he 00:16:39.759 --> 00:16:41.759 doesn't want to have an affair with scarlet whereas 00:16:41.759 --> 00:16:45.340 she is really willing to but because he won't 00:16:45.340 --> 00:16:47.659 completely break it off because he still will 00:16:47.659 --> 00:16:52.159 compliment her and such it's hard to really sympathize 00:16:52.159 --> 00:16:54.940 from that point so let's go on to the next scene 00:16:54.940 --> 00:16:59.600 that ashley is in um not the next scene he's 00:16:59.600 --> 00:17:01.360 in but the next where they really have a conversation 00:17:01.360 --> 00:17:07.160 so scarlet has married frank and she comes back 00:17:07.160 --> 00:17:11.200 to Tara briefly while pregnant with Ella because 00:17:11.200 --> 00:17:14.119 Gerald has died. So she needs to attend his funeral. 00:17:14.259 --> 00:17:18.160 And while she is there, she asks Ashley to partner 00:17:18.160 --> 00:17:23.920 with her in her sawmill. She says that she'll 00:17:23.920 --> 00:17:25.859 give him half the business, that she'll make 00:17:25.859 --> 00:17:28.599 allowances for him. She's giving him a job, a 00:17:28.599 --> 00:17:32.940 way to come home for Melanie. And he tells her 00:17:32.940 --> 00:17:37.440 that he cannot do it partially because he cannot 00:17:37.440 --> 00:17:40.420 trust himself around her. So that's referencing 00:17:40.420 --> 00:17:42.380 something that happened between them in the past. 00:17:42.500 --> 00:17:44.500 He's trying to be completely honest with her, 00:17:44.559 --> 00:17:47.559 but I think that with... Ashley he needs to realize 00:17:47.559 --> 00:17:50.400 honesty with Scarlett is not the best policy 00:17:50.400 --> 00:17:54.380 because Scarlett is taking that as oh he still 00:17:54.380 --> 00:17:57.299 harbors this hidden love for me and I can get 00:17:57.299 --> 00:18:00.619 him to run away with me eventually I can get 00:18:00.619 --> 00:18:03.000 him to want to marry me we still have this deep 00:18:03.000 --> 00:18:05.819 love for each other and it's so romantic and 00:18:05.819 --> 00:18:10.579 passionate and sweet so if Ashley had just not 00:18:10.579 --> 00:18:13.839 said anything at all and not been honest then 00:18:14.929 --> 00:18:17.250 she might have been able to let him go. Like, 00:18:17.309 --> 00:18:19.710 if he really cared about not having an affair, 00:18:19.970 --> 00:18:22.650 then he should have just told her, hey, I love 00:18:22.650 --> 00:18:25.170 Melanie. He should have completely lied to her 00:18:25.170 --> 00:18:28.549 and not been as honorable as he thinks that he 00:18:28.549 --> 00:18:33.750 has to be. And he also pays her compliments still. 00:18:34.730 --> 00:18:37.109 Scarlett talks about how she's really ashamed 00:18:37.109 --> 00:18:40.349 to let him see her because she's pregnant and 00:18:40.349 --> 00:18:43.269 she feels ugly and like she's betrayed him. And 00:18:43.269 --> 00:18:45.390 he says, damn your looks, you're always beautiful 00:18:45.390 --> 00:18:51.990 to me. So that is even more passion and even 00:18:51.990 --> 00:18:55.740 more leading her on because he Maybe he doesn't 00:18:55.740 --> 00:18:58.220 realize he is. I think that what's important 00:18:58.220 --> 00:19:01.579 to Ashley is always being genuine, always really 00:19:01.579 --> 00:19:04.299 expressing where his heart comes from. And I 00:19:04.299 --> 00:19:07.059 think that there are people like that in this 00:19:07.059 --> 00:19:10.079 world who really don't realize that sometimes 00:19:10.079 --> 00:19:14.000 the best way to be honorable is to lie so that 00:19:14.000 --> 00:19:17.319 you don't make other people feel like they have 00:19:17.319 --> 00:19:19.180 a chance at something they have absolutely no 00:19:19.180 --> 00:19:21.140 chance at because we know he's never going to 00:19:21.140 --> 00:19:25.250 leave Melanie for her. so poor scarlet here well 00:19:25.250 --> 00:19:29.549 not poor scarlet exactly she shouldn't have been 00:19:29.549 --> 00:19:33.470 carrying on after this married man but you do 00:19:33.470 --> 00:19:36.289 pity her a little bit in this scene because ashley 00:19:36.289 --> 00:19:38.869 is just feeding into the narrative over and over 00:19:38.869 --> 00:19:42.609 so you can kind of understand where both of them 00:19:42.609 --> 00:19:45.569 are coming from but i think that ashley at this 00:19:45.569 --> 00:19:50.039 point really if he was committed to staying with 00:19:50.039 --> 00:19:53.779 Melanie needed to not say anything anymore just 00:19:53.779 --> 00:19:56.359 stop talking to Scarlett in such a lover -like 00:19:56.359 --> 00:20:01.400 way okay so obviously Melanie comes in Ashley 00:20:01.400 --> 00:20:03.380 is convinced to come to Atlanta but he's not 00:20:03.380 --> 00:20:06.420 happy there he hates running the sawmill Scarlett 00:20:06.420 --> 00:20:09.960 is less and less impressed with him and she sees 00:20:09.960 --> 00:20:12.420 how unhappy he is and wants to fix it but doesn't 00:20:12.420 --> 00:20:18.279 know how so then let's move on to The next big 00:20:18.279 --> 00:20:22.059 scene between them. Which is after Scarlett has 00:20:22.059 --> 00:20:25.759 married Rhett. After Scarlett marries Rhett. 00:20:26.200 --> 00:20:29.839 She has Bonnie. And the first time that she goes 00:20:29.839 --> 00:20:34.259 back to the mill. Ashley kind of confesses to 00:20:34.259 --> 00:20:38.539 her that he's jealous. Somewhat. So let's see 00:20:38.539 --> 00:20:42.299 what happens in this scene. Hold on just a second. 00:20:45.059 --> 00:20:49.119 Okay. So Scarlett starts talking about the convicts 00:20:49.119 --> 00:20:51.299 and how Ashley needs to be harsher with them, 00:20:51.440 --> 00:20:54.500 give them a couple of good licks and so on, and 00:20:54.500 --> 00:20:57.339 just really awful things. And Ashley is convinced 00:20:57.339 --> 00:21:00.660 that it is Rhett who has made her this way. So 00:21:00.660 --> 00:21:03.539 up to this point, Scarlett's always been sweet 00:21:03.539 --> 00:21:06.160 and charming around him. She's never really shown 00:21:06.160 --> 00:21:09.079 this other side of her, or at least Ashley has 00:21:09.079 --> 00:21:11.359 never noticed it. But now that he is noticing 00:21:11.359 --> 00:21:15.000 how ruthless she can be, He feels that it is 00:21:15.000 --> 00:21:17.259 Rhett Butler who is to blame, that because he's 00:21:17.259 --> 00:21:19.519 her husband, he's kind of turned her into the 00:21:19.519 --> 00:21:23.039 same person that he is. And he accuses him of 00:21:23.039 --> 00:21:28.920 brutalizing her. So if we look at this scene, 00:21:29.039 --> 00:21:32.619 just as Scarlett sees it, it is kind of like, 00:21:32.720 --> 00:21:37.200 oh, Ashley, you are. putting your nose in into 00:21:37.200 --> 00:21:39.059 matters that have absolutely nothing to do with 00:21:39.059 --> 00:21:42.059 you and you're just jealous. And he does say 00:21:42.059 --> 00:21:44.440 that he can't stand to think of Rhett touching 00:21:44.440 --> 00:21:47.359 Scarlett. So that kind of implies that the two 00:21:47.359 --> 00:21:51.299 of them being together drives him crazy. At least 00:21:51.299 --> 00:21:53.880 that's how Scarlett takes it, too, because she, 00:21:53.960 --> 00:21:57.960 after this, is so touched by what he said and 00:21:57.960 --> 00:22:00.519 just feels it was so romantic that she tells 00:22:00.519 --> 00:22:01.960 Rhett she wants to kick him out of her bedroom. 00:22:02.799 --> 00:22:05.740 So Ashley definitely caused a rift in their marriage. 00:22:05.880 --> 00:22:08.420 But I am going to take a second here to kind 00:22:08.420 --> 00:22:11.839 of defend Ashley. So from Ashley's perspective, 00:22:12.140 --> 00:22:16.019 Scarlett is this sweet girl who is in love with 00:22:16.019 --> 00:22:19.039 him. And Rhett Butler is somebody that he knows 00:22:19.039 --> 00:22:22.880 was a food speculator during the war, who he 00:22:22.880 --> 00:22:25.819 thinks never fought in the army, which to him 00:22:25.819 --> 00:22:31.309 is bad. He knows that Rhett owns a brothel. He's 00:22:31.309 --> 00:22:35.809 a murderer. And more recently, he convinced Scarlett 00:22:35.809 --> 00:22:39.390 to change the sign on her store to something 00:22:39.390 --> 00:22:41.970 that meant let the buyer beware. And she did 00:22:41.970 --> 00:22:45.930 it out of ignorance. So that is a direct incident 00:22:45.930 --> 00:22:48.329 that Ashley is involved in because he's the one 00:22:48.329 --> 00:22:50.990 who tells Scarlett what it really means. And 00:22:50.990 --> 00:22:52.690 I think that this scene kind of hints at the 00:22:52.690 --> 00:22:56.730 fact that Ashley knows or thinks Rhett mistreats 00:22:56.730 --> 00:23:00.009 his wife. He thinks that Rhett is awful to Scarlett, 00:23:00.049 --> 00:23:02.089 that Scarlett just married him for money and 00:23:02.089 --> 00:23:04.210 he's a really bad person and she's a really good 00:23:04.210 --> 00:23:07.750 person. So obviously he's a little delusional 00:23:07.750 --> 00:23:11.410 because Scarlett is just as bad as Rhett in many 00:23:11.410 --> 00:23:15.390 respects and they are quite similar people. But 00:23:15.390 --> 00:23:18.710 you can kind of see from his perspective why 00:23:18.710 --> 00:23:20.970 he's unhappy. However, it doesn't make it right 00:23:20.970 --> 00:23:25.130 because he causes this rift that drives the two 00:23:25.130 --> 00:23:27.789 of them apart. And obviously, Scarlett and Rhett, 00:23:27.809 --> 00:23:30.769 it's their fault too. They don't know how to 00:23:30.769 --> 00:23:32.529 handle things between the two of them. But just 00:23:32.529 --> 00:23:35.609 talking in terms of Ashley Wilkes, he definitely 00:23:35.609 --> 00:23:37.890 crossed a boundary here. And he does seem to 00:23:37.890 --> 00:23:41.390 know that because he says, I apologize most humbly, 00:23:41.410 --> 00:23:43.630 Scarlet. I've been insinuating that your husband 00:23:43.630 --> 00:23:46.170 is not a gentleman, and my own words have proved 00:23:46.170 --> 00:23:49.150 that I'm not one. No one has a right to criticize 00:23:49.150 --> 00:23:52.369 a husband to a wife. I haven't any excuse except, 00:23:52.690 --> 00:23:56.509 except, I haven't any excuse at all. And then 00:23:56.509 --> 00:23:58.890 it says, all the way home in the carriage, Scarlet's 00:23:58.890 --> 00:24:02.089 mind raced. No excuse at all except, except that 00:24:02.089 --> 00:24:08.210 he loved her. So here we go again. He's done 00:24:08.210 --> 00:24:10.789 yet another thing that makes her think he's in 00:24:10.789 --> 00:24:13.970 love with her. But from Ashley's perspective, 00:24:14.210 --> 00:24:19.150 he is in love with Scarlett. So let's go on to 00:24:19.150 --> 00:24:22.109 the mill scene. This is the scene where they 00:24:22.109 --> 00:24:25.849 get caught together and Atlanta believes that 00:24:25.849 --> 00:24:28.730 the two of them are committing adultery. Even 00:24:28.730 --> 00:24:31.210 though it never really went that far, it's more 00:24:31.210 --> 00:24:35.039 been an emotional affair. that Ashley most of 00:24:35.039 --> 00:24:39.000 the time refuses to reciprocate. At the same 00:24:39.000 --> 00:24:42.559 time, they were caught hugging. Now, to put this 00:24:42.559 --> 00:24:46.500 in a modern perspective, if you were convinced 00:24:46.500 --> 00:24:50.900 that, let's say you're India Wilkes. Say you're 00:24:50.900 --> 00:24:55.519 convinced that your sister -in -law's sister 00:24:55.519 --> 00:24:59.819 -in -law is in love with your brother and that 00:24:59.819 --> 00:25:03.309 they are having some sort of affair. or at least 00:25:03.309 --> 00:25:06.829 you suspect, and then you walk into a room where 00:25:06.829 --> 00:25:08.809 the two of them are hugging, and there's nobody 00:25:08.809 --> 00:25:10.690 else in the room with them, and it's not a brief 00:25:10.690 --> 00:25:13.690 hug. They are standing there, it seems, embracing 00:25:13.690 --> 00:25:16.990 each other. You might think it was kind of weird. 00:25:17.170 --> 00:25:19.609 Now, when you read the scene, it is pretty innocent. 00:25:19.809 --> 00:25:23.130 He's mostly just comforting her while she cries, 00:25:23.170 --> 00:25:26.190 and perhaps a hug befits their long friendship 00:25:26.190 --> 00:25:31.809 that they purportedly had. I understand why India 00:25:31.809 --> 00:25:34.569 jumped to the conclusion that she did, and it 00:25:34.569 --> 00:25:37.589 kind of makes sense because they did make out 00:25:37.589 --> 00:25:40.730 in the past, so maybe they should face some consequences 00:25:40.730 --> 00:25:43.190 for that. Even though they hadn't been doing 00:25:43.190 --> 00:25:44.910 anything in this scene, it was only a matter 00:25:44.910 --> 00:25:46.869 of time before they had to pay for what they 00:25:46.869 --> 00:25:49.190 did in the past, if you believe in karmic justice 00:25:49.190 --> 00:25:55.650 like that. So, this scene, really, I don't think 00:25:55.650 --> 00:25:58.640 Ashley... does lead her on in i think it's way 00:25:58.640 --> 00:26:00.599 more of an innocent scene they have a kind of 00:26:00.599 --> 00:26:03.619 a deep conversation for scarlet about where they 00:26:03.619 --> 00:26:06.259 are trying to get in life and the past and what 00:26:06.259 --> 00:26:10.279 it means to them and such but the hug that they 00:26:10.279 --> 00:26:12.640 had was really just supposed to be a comforting 00:26:12.640 --> 00:26:17.559 one and i think at this point scarlet has a turning 00:26:17.559 --> 00:26:19.880 point because ashley doesn't do anything about 00:26:19.880 --> 00:26:23.180 the scandal And Ashley, too, also kind of has 00:26:23.180 --> 00:26:25.980 a turning point, most likely. He probably realizes 00:26:25.980 --> 00:26:30.059 that he is more in love with Melanie than he 00:26:30.059 --> 00:26:32.240 thought because we never see him and Scarlett 00:26:32.240 --> 00:26:35.420 together in a big scene again until Melanie dies. 00:26:35.680 --> 00:26:39.299 Well, actually, we do have a scene where they 00:26:39.299 --> 00:26:41.200 are with Rhett and Melanie together and they're 00:26:41.200 --> 00:26:44.079 all talking. But I mean, like a scene alone together 00:26:44.079 --> 00:26:46.480 doesn't come again until the ending of the book. 00:26:47.309 --> 00:26:49.289 So let's look at the ending of the book because 00:26:49.289 --> 00:26:53.390 this is when Scarlett makes all of her realizations 00:26:53.390 --> 00:26:56.210 about how she really feels about Rhett. But before 00:26:56.210 --> 00:27:00.289 that, she realizes that Ashley really loves Melanie. 00:27:01.369 --> 00:27:04.930 So let's take a look about what love really means 00:27:04.930 --> 00:27:09.029 in this book. Being in love with someone is not 00:27:09.029 --> 00:27:11.950 the same as loving somebody in a platonic way, 00:27:11.990 --> 00:27:16.420 according to this book. But it's a little confusing 00:27:16.420 --> 00:27:21.619 because does Ashley really love Melanie as a 00:27:21.619 --> 00:27:25.240 wife or just as his protector for everything 00:27:25.240 --> 00:27:30.079 that she's done for him? And obviously he was 00:27:30.079 --> 00:27:35.059 delusional about Scarlett. But was he in love 00:27:35.059 --> 00:27:37.720 with Scarlett too? Was he genuine? Was Scarlett 00:27:37.720 --> 00:27:39.680 genuine? Those are all pretty big questions. 00:27:39.759 --> 00:27:41.980 And you have to go back and think about what 00:27:41.980 --> 00:27:45.480 love really, really means. But what the book 00:27:45.480 --> 00:27:50.119 tells us, let's see. It says, Oh, Ashley, men 00:27:50.119 --> 00:27:52.059 are supposed to know such things, not women. 00:27:52.140 --> 00:27:54.500 You should have seen so clearly that you loved 00:27:54.500 --> 00:27:57.059 her all the time and only wanted me like Rhett 00:27:57.059 --> 00:28:00.599 wants that Watling woman. So is this fair to 00:28:00.599 --> 00:28:03.440 say? I have to wonder because it does seem to 00:28:03.440 --> 00:28:05.720 me that from the previous passages we've read. 00:28:06.269 --> 00:28:08.789 Ashley really was in love with Scarlett, and 00:28:08.789 --> 00:28:12.069 he at least thought he was. He didn't understand 00:28:12.069 --> 00:28:14.289 who she really was, but that's kind of the same 00:28:14.289 --> 00:28:16.730 as Scarlett being in love with Ashley. And maybe 00:28:16.730 --> 00:28:22.190 he mixed up that romantic love with just being 00:28:22.190 --> 00:28:24.690 physically attracted to her. Maybe he mixed the 00:28:24.690 --> 00:28:26.930 two of those things up in his mind, but I don't 00:28:26.930 --> 00:28:30.109 think that it was intentional. I don't think 00:28:30.109 --> 00:28:33.789 that he was just messing with her. I think that 00:28:33.789 --> 00:28:37.890 he really thought, he was in love and that Scarlett 00:28:37.890 --> 00:28:40.970 was a really good person and that the two of 00:28:40.970 --> 00:28:43.769 them could be in love without doing anything 00:28:43.769 --> 00:28:48.549 and that wouldn't make it wrong. So here's what 00:28:48.549 --> 00:28:52.289 I think. I think, yes, in a way, Ashley does 00:28:52.289 --> 00:28:55.269 lead Scarlett on. He does give her hope about 00:28:55.269 --> 00:28:57.210 a relationship that's never going to happen. 00:28:57.529 --> 00:29:01.390 But I think this was not done out of any sort 00:29:01.390 --> 00:29:05.960 of malice. I think. that Ashley was not intending 00:29:05.960 --> 00:29:08.319 to play with Scarlett. Normally, when we think 00:29:08.319 --> 00:29:10.880 of somebody leading someone on, we think about 00:29:10.880 --> 00:29:13.480 somebody who just thinks that it's fun to play 00:29:13.480 --> 00:29:17.140 with people's emotions and kind of make them 00:29:17.140 --> 00:29:18.880 fall in love with you, even if you don't feel 00:29:18.880 --> 00:29:21.380 the same way. I don't think Ashley is doing that. 00:29:21.480 --> 00:29:26.339 I think that he really thinks that he loves Scarlett, 00:29:26.400 --> 00:29:29.000 but he doesn't really understand her in the same 00:29:29.000 --> 00:29:32.619 way she doesn't understand him. So does that 00:29:32.619 --> 00:29:36.119 make it great? No. Ashley, like I said, he's 00:29:36.119 --> 00:29:39.740 one of those people who truly believes that if 00:29:39.740 --> 00:29:43.339 you feel a certain way about somebody, you should 00:29:43.339 --> 00:29:45.579 be honest with them about it because that's what 00:29:45.579 --> 00:29:48.440 your honor leads you to do. And like I said, 00:29:48.539 --> 00:29:51.279 he shouldn't have been honest with her as far 00:29:51.279 --> 00:29:53.440 as he knew about thinking she was beautiful and 00:29:53.440 --> 00:29:55.599 always complimenting her and calling her sweet 00:29:55.599 --> 00:29:58.640 and wonderful and brave because that gave her 00:29:58.640 --> 00:30:00.640 hope for something that wasn't going to happen. 00:30:01.000 --> 00:30:04.559 And at the end of the day, he did kind of cheat 00:30:04.559 --> 00:30:07.480 on his wife, not all the way, but somewhat of 00:30:07.480 --> 00:30:11.680 the way. And this emotional affair he was having 00:30:11.680 --> 00:30:14.380 was definitely morally wrong, especially considering 00:30:14.380 --> 00:30:17.920 the person Melanie was. She was wonderful to 00:30:17.920 --> 00:30:20.480 both Scarlett and Ashley, and they didn't treat 00:30:20.480 --> 00:30:24.690 her that well behind her back. But... I think 00:30:24.690 --> 00:30:27.450 that Ashley was aware of that. I think he knew 00:30:27.450 --> 00:30:29.130 that what he was doing was wrong and he wanted 00:30:29.130 --> 00:30:31.289 to distance himself from Scarlett when he was 00:30:31.289 --> 00:30:33.509 trying to get away from Atlanta. He was trying 00:30:33.509 --> 00:30:36.269 to take his wife and son to New York, but then 00:30:36.269 --> 00:30:39.190 Melanie wanted to go to Atlanta and he placated 00:30:39.190 --> 00:30:41.369 her in that way and bowed to what she thought. 00:30:41.509 --> 00:30:43.789 I don't think Ashley made the right decisions 00:30:43.789 --> 00:30:46.730 all the time, but I think it was mostly because 00:30:46.730 --> 00:30:50.569 he was weak and because he didn't understand 00:30:50.569 --> 00:30:55.700 people very well. That is kind of my thought 00:30:55.700 --> 00:30:58.480 on him. Do I think that he led Scarlett on? Yes, 00:30:58.480 --> 00:31:01.380 but I think he did so unintentionally. I don't 00:31:01.380 --> 00:31:03.960 think he was a bad person, but I think he made 00:31:03.960 --> 00:31:07.099 a lot of terrible decisions and that he should 00:31:07.099 --> 00:31:10.180 have been more firm with Scarlett in telling 00:31:10.180 --> 00:31:13.160 her that, hey, I'm not interested and I'm not 00:31:13.160 --> 00:31:17.420 going to leave my wife for you. Looking at all 00:31:17.420 --> 00:31:19.160 of these scenes in the book, you can kind of 00:31:19.160 --> 00:31:22.220 understand Scarlett a little better. You can 00:31:22.220 --> 00:31:26.519 see where she is coming from. And you can see 00:31:26.519 --> 00:31:30.259 where he is coming from. And because they had 00:31:30.259 --> 00:31:32.660 these idealized images of each other in their 00:31:32.660 --> 00:31:36.779 heads, it all turned out to be this huge mess 00:31:36.779 --> 00:31:39.980 where nobody is really aware of who they truly 00:31:39.980 --> 00:31:44.680 love. So, of course, we all know that. But that 00:31:44.680 --> 00:31:48.000 is my final thesis on Ashley. I hope you enjoyed. 00:31:48.299 --> 00:31:50.940 I've seen a lot of people who hate him. I've 00:31:50.940 --> 00:31:54.680 seen people who like him. But I'm very curious 00:31:54.680 --> 00:31:57.660 to know what everybody else thinks. So thank 00:31:57.660 --> 00:32:00.759 you for listening. If you got this far, see you 00:32:00.759 --> 00:32:01.200 next time.