Hello everybody, welcome to episode one. So today
I'm going to be talking about something that
has recently caught my interest. It is Norma
Shearer being cast as Scarlett O 'Hara early
on in the film's production. Now, you might be
wondering who the heck is Norma Shearer, or if
you know old Hollywood, you might be like, I
didn't know she was cast as Scarlett, or you
might know what I'm talking about, but if you
don't, She was at least being considered for
the role of Scarlett early on. And I'm not exactly
sure what happened. It's very unclear. But in
1938, on June 24th, she was in the newspaper
as having. been given the role of Scarlett even
though that wasn't completely true because if
you read David Selznick's memos during the time
he doesn't really say anything about that and
also everybody pretty much already knew about
Clark Gable being read at that point but Norma
Shearer was more out of left field for people
they were like what the heck And one big point
of contention that people had was that she was
a little bit too old for the role because she
was in her mid -30s. And Scarlett, at the end
of the novel, is only 28, and it's been 12 years
of her life. So obviously she's older than Scarlett
ever was, and people were kind of like, why would
you cast somebody who is that old? And also she
was known for playing kind of more demure roles.
is what I can gather. I'm not an expert on Norma
Shearer. So the reason this caught my interest
is because I was looking on the Harry Ransom
Center's website. They are this wonderful, wonderful
museum, and they have a huge treasure trove of
Gone with the Wind content, a lot of which they've
put online. They've digitized a lot of old documents
and transcribed them because some of this handwriting
is really hard to read. So I was reading a lot
of these old letters and things. There's lots
of great stuff on there. But I saw the section
labeled protests. And I was like, what are people
protesting? And I clicked on it. And it was mostly
about Norma Shearer. And I was like, why did
people care so much? And also, do I want to read
these? I mean, I don't know anything about her.
And also, clearly, she didn't get the role. So
who cares? But I'm so glad I read them because,
oh my gosh, these letters of protest are so funny.
They are absolutely hysterical, at least to me.
People were so mad that she was Scarlett. And
honestly, it reminded me a lot of today. So the
episode today is just going to be me mostly reading
these letters. A little more context, on July
7th, a little later, there was another newspaper
article published where Norma Shearer stated
that she didn't find Scarlett very sympathetic
in the last half of the book, so she kind of
wanted to change that a bit. And of course, people
were really protective about the book, and they
were big fans of it, so they got really mad about
that. Yeah, if you hear any references to that,
that is what they are talking about. Now, I don't
know how true any of this was. I mean, obviously
she was never ever cast and she wasn't signed
to the role. I know she wasn't. Somebody correct
me if they know more about this. From my understanding,
no, like this never happened. And also why would
she do an interview saying she wanted to change
things? So it's really just a big mystery to
me, but let's read some of these letters. So
the first one is kind of tame, but let's start
with this one because this will give you like
the general flavor of it. It goes, Dear Mr. Selznick.
May I congratulate you on your excellent choice
of Clark Gable for the role of Rhett Butler.
I would also like to say that I'm rather disappointed
to hear that Norma Shearer will play Scarlett
O 'Hara. Miss Shearer is one of my favorites,
but I feel she is not suited to the role, nor
the role to her. I was hoping your final choice
would be Clara Bow. (Okay, I don't know if that's
Clara Bow or Clara Bow. Sorry.) What a team, Clara
Bow and Clark Gable. What a story, gone with
the wind. And then it is signed, disappointed
and how. And the way that people sign these letters
is pretty much the funniest part of all. So that's
kind of what they were like. So let's read a
slightly funnier one. All right, this is from
June 24th, 1938, apparently. Dear sir, please
give the public a break and give us a Scarlett
O 'Hara as Margaret Mitchell requested her to
be. Katherine Hepburn is the one for the role.
Shearer is too old. Shearer is too blah. Lacks
the fire and impetuosity of an O'Hara. I'm one.
I should know. We personally feel your picture
shot with her in the lead. Feel the pulse of
the public and be guided by that reaction. Very
truly, the ghost of Scarlett O 'Hara. Yeah, it's
the ghost of Scarlett O 'Hara writing to Selznick.
So, yeah. Okay, next one. David Selznick, Hollywood,
California. Why didn't you select Mae Robson
or Sophie Tucker for the role of Scarlett O 'Hara?
I am sure either would be more acceptable than
Norma Shearer. For God's sake, if not for ours,
read the book. So for God's sake, God has a vested
interest in this. Love you, God. If you can find
one thing in common with Scarlett O'Hara and
Norma Shearer, age, looks, temperament, type,
I'll eat the book. Disgusted Southerner. Next
one. To whom it may concern, Norma Shearer as
Scarlett O 'Hara, too bad Marie Dressler passed
on as its apparent age means nothing, I predict
a complete flop. Not a fan. And that is all it
says. Very short. Publicity Department, Selznick
International Studios, Culver City, California.
Has someone gone balmy over there? Whoever thought
that Norma Shearer could play Scarlet? Your picture
will turn out with two Melanies. Only one will
be sweeter than the other. Disappointed. Dear
Sir, Y .O .Y. cast giggling, high -voiced Norma
Shearer as Scarlett O'Hara. She is not the type.
Only two persons could portray Scarlett O'Hara
and Rhett, and they are Bette Davis and Clark
Gable. A popular vote by persons who read and
loved the book would tell you this. If you use
Norma Shearer as the green-eyed, shrewd, rather
homely Scarlett of the calculating eyes, you'll
be a box office failure. I suppose you'll change
the book's ending, too, as The Good Earth. Movie
producers think the public can't read and their
version of a grand book must be choked down our
throats. No one but Bette Davis could play Scarlett
indignant. Okay, next one. Dear Mr. Selznick,
It would not be fair to you who have done wonderful
things to express myself as I feel, but when
you come out and say that Norma Shearer and Clark
Gable are to co-star in Gone with the Wind,
it is almost more than I can stand. You certainly
are not familiar with or fair to the South when
you think for a minute that Norma Shearer could
be a Scarlett. I am sure I have seen her for almost
twenty years on the screen, and even if she could
act the part, her age is very much against her.
You have dozens of stars who would be more suitable,
many of whom I could enumerate but won't. It
must be that she is financially interested or
you would show better judgment. If you could
hear how the people are expressing themselves,
you would say, let's forget the whole thing.
Personally, I am terribly disappointed. Signed,
a daughter of the South. Sorry, I was reading
wrong. Okay, July 19th. My dear Mr. Selznick.
Please do not ruin our gorgeous and sweet Norma
Shearer in such a part as Scarlett O 'Hara. She
is most unsuited. Ronald Coleman would make a
perfect Rhett Butler. Gable, terrible. Rosalind
Russell might do as Scarlett. Yours, a Norma
Shearer fan. I put that one in because I wanted
to show she did have fans. Like, poor Norma Shearer.
She probably got so many of these letters herself.
All right. Dear Mr. Selznick. I prefer Katharine
Hepburn for the part of Scarlett O 'Hara, but
Norma Shearer is not the type for that part.
You are a tool if you have NS. Wow. Dear sirs,
we, the people of the United States, in order
to form a more perfect motion picture gone with
the wind, implore you not to star Norma Shearer
as Scarlett O 'Hara. We think she is a splendid
actress, but she does not suit the part. Please
take this in mind. The public. Honored gentlemen,
please, please do not put Norma Shearer in Gone
with the Wind. My goodness, can't you see it
is absolutely impossible for Miss Shearer to
be Scarlet? She couldn't be Scarlet O 'Hara if
she tried a thousand years, and I don't see why
she lets you put her there. For her sake and
for the Lord's sake, put Katharine Hepburn in
instead. A citizen. So many people think God
is just going to have this huge problem with
this. I mean, I bet he would, too. Dear sir,
what's wrong? Norma Shearer as Scarlet? Why her
age alone bars her from the fiery youth, girly,
etc. that made Scarlet the grand character in...
And then it's just a blank line. I don't know
why. Why did she... Do pay to play the part to
keep a younger and capable person of securing
the part? What's wrong with you, producers? Open
your eyes. Get a new and younger coy person.
Forget Norma and leave her to Marie Antoinette,
etc. One of the many thousands disagree. Okay,
also, and in case you don't know, Norma Shearer
played Marie Antoinette, I think the year before.
So that's what they're talking about there. Although
Marie Antoinette, come to think of it, she's
kind of similar to Scarlett. So, I don't know.
I need to see her in that role, I think. How
in God's good name could you pick Norma Shearer
for the part of Scarlett O 'Hara? Why, a primary
school child could have told you that Miriam
Hopkins or Katherine Hepburn could have done
justice to the part. But Shearer? Boo! I wonder
if there is politics in Hollywood. Disgusted
fan. Alright, this one's kind of a weird start.
After all the time it took to select Scarlet
for Gone with the Wind, you certainly made a
boner. Miss Shearer may be alright in some pictures,
but of what a mistake you have made. Clark Gable
as Red, I am sure, will prove a splendid selection.
Miriam Hopkins is the lady to play Scarlett and
some eight or ten more stars, such as Hepburn,
Ginger Rogers, Betty Davis, Tallulah Bankhead,
Margaret Sullivan. I think by the time the picture
will be released, the people will have tired
of hearing of it and will not care to see it.
A movie fan. Well, they were definitely wrong
about that last part. Okay, this next one has
a lot of capital letters, so I will try to indicate
with my voice when those come up. All right.
Gentlemen, the world awaits with keen anticipation
the filmed version of Gone with the Wind. It
is the greatest story to sweep this country by
storm in a good many years. You've got a powder
box of drama with which to work and it should
be dynamite. But if you muff it, the popularity
of your productions is going to drop to zero
in the eyes of Mr. and Mrs. Public. What in the
name of heaven are you trying to do to Scarlett
O 'Hara by casting lovely but too sweet and noble
and refined Norma Shearer in the part? I have
still to meet a friend or acquaintance who thinks
it will be a successful arrangement, and believe
me, it has been a subject as common as the weather
between friends and strangers in these parts.
We don't want a refined and made over Scarlet.
Rumor also has it that you are making over the
story a great deal. We think this too is a grave
mistake. It would be far better to make it a
three or four hour sensation and charge double
prices than to cut out half the chapters in order
to cram that vibrant story into a two hour picture.
Whom do we suggest in lieu of the lovely Norma?
And she is one of our favorites ordinarily. Well,
anyone with a hot, cold, gray, green, or blue
eyes, not brown, and the suggestive figure. If
you get to the end of your list, dye Betty Davis's
hair coal black, lace her into a 17 -inch waist
bustled gown, and let her hop to it. But don't
make it refined! What do you think made the book
so popular? Fan. Yeah, that person was pretty
angry. Interesting take on... betty davis from
everybody i think she would have been a good
scarlet but we'll get into that more later okay
this is kind of a long one dear sir i have recently
heard the announcement that norma shearer is
to play the role of scarlet o 'hara my first
reaction was horror and i regret to say my second
and third were the same Of course, I realize,
as most people do, that probably a bit of pressure
was brought to bear on you, but even so, why
jeopardize the filming of a great American tale
by miscasting the most talked -of character that
has been created in this country in a decade?
Obviously, there are only two possible selections
for the part, at least actresses who are known.
One, Miriam Hopkins. Two, Tallulah Bankhead.
To be fair, I must admit Norma Shearer has been
cast in parts which I nearly fainted to even
think about, but when I saw the pictures I was
pleasantly surprised. However, in this instance,
I can anticipate no such revelation, nor can
half the metropolitan area. It truly is an error,
for can you yourself conceivably visualize Miss
Shearer with any of the guile or shrewishness
of Scarlet? Can you possibly imagine her whittling
a favor with a smile on her lips but flint in
her eyes? No, no, no. Those were all capital
exclamation points. Fundamentally, she is too
stereotyped. Her parts in the past have been
widely diversified, but there was always a concreteness
about the role for her to put her teeth in. But
Scarlet is elusive, subtle, blatant, detestable,
yet oddly understandable. And Norma Shearer has
neither the scope nor the shades to her playing
to... Her playing to portray a character of such
multifarious emotions. Sorry, that was kind of
a run -on sentence. Sincerely yours, Catherine
L. Beach. I think Catherine kind of hit the nail
on the head with describing Scarlett. She is
elusive, subtle, blatant, and detestable, but
oddly understandable. I mean, I think that really
describes her well. And also the things she said
about... having a smile on her lips but flint
in her eyes. That is so Vivien Leigh, if you
think about it. She does that perfectly. Okay,
I have one, two, three more. All right. My dear
Mr. Selznick, according to our movie scandal
columnists, the latest reports on Gone with the
Wind are that Rhett Butler will be played by
Clark Gable and Scarlett O 'Hara by Norma Shearer.
Imagine Norma Shearer as Scarlett. I'm actually
laughing, DOS, and not with you, but at you.
What's the matter with Eleanor Roosevelt being
signed for the part? Or Mae Robson, Patsy Kelly,
baby snooks? Just what are we to expect of this
production now? Well, at least I can be assured
of saving 50 cents and spending one night at
home when this picture is released. Anyway, thanks
to Warner Brothers for Jezebel with a really
swell cast and an actress who can portray a role
with ability and not because of a name. Oh, well,
we all have to make a living. Yours in disgust
and laughter, Roger Templeton, San Francisco.
I love that one. Yours in disgust and laughter.
I'm going to sign a letter that way one day.
Okay. Dear Mr. Selznick, of all the stupid choices
for parts, yours of Norma Shearer for Scarlet
takes the cake. I spend three months each year
in and around Hollywood. I have seen most of
the stars at some time or other. I have read
Gone with the Wind five times, and I'll be damned
if Miss Shearer fits in the picture whatsoever.
As great an admirer as I am of Norma Shearer,
she certainly is going to be miscast. How did
you ever come upon this decision anyway? I, for
one, will stay blocks away from the picture when
it plays San Francisco under the present setup.
And from what I have heard, there are hundreds
of others who share my opinion. You have four
girls in Hollywood who could and would take the
part very well. They are Katherine Hepburn, Margaret
Sullivan, Miriam Hopkins, and Paulette Goddard.
If Norma Shearer accepts the role of Scarlett,
she is going to do herself more harm than good,
and she will be gone with the wind. She just
isn't suited to the part and no revamping on
your part can alter that fact. If you are giving
Norma the break because it is your means of showing
your gratitude for some specific reason, for
God's sake, show it some other way before such
a fine person and lovely actress as Miss Shearer
loses all it has taken years to build up. Sincerely,
Oliver Campos, Irvington, California. So I think
it's funny. A lot of people are convinced Norma
Shearer is like completely going to lose her
reputation if she takes the role because she's
just going to be so bad that nobody's going to
want her again. She's going to lose all her credibility.
Okay, here's the last one. This one is short.
It's my favorite. A warning to David O. Selznick.
Your public sees clearer and clearer that disaster
looms nearer and nearer. When she's Scarlett
O 'Hara, she'll win the tiara for the screen's
biggest flop, Norma Shearer. A .L. Clarke. And
that reaches the end. Now, those are not all
of the ones I read. There are actually almost
200 of them, maybe more like 150. I actually
didn't get through every single one of them because
they kind of drifted off of the topic of her
after a while. But there are a lot of really
good ones. I also read one that I should actually
find. It was about Leslie Howard. Someone was
protesting him. And then there were a couple
protesting Paulette Goddard, which I thought
was interesting because I didn't know that it
was kind of out in the public that she was so
close to playing Scarlett. But some people were
concerned about her too. And it's so funny to
me. I mean, it's not surprising. Nobody ever
mentions Vivian Leigh, of course, when they're
talking about who should play Scarlet because
nobody knew who she was. So it kind of reinforces
this idea that when she got the part, she really
was this nobody that most people hadn't seen.
I know there was a yank at Oxford, which she
was in, and that was shown in America. So they
might have seen her in that, but most people
had never seen her. They didn't really have TV
at home most of the time, so they just didn't
know who she was. So all they really had to go
by were her pictures. And according to Margaret
Mitchell reading her letters, it seems like most
people were kind of happy about that because
they didn't want to have somebody who they were
just going to be judging by their previous performances.
We can talk about Vivian Leigh and her casting
a different time because that is a whole different
story, which is super interesting. But back to
Norma Shearer, just to give kind of a conclusion
to this whole story. So in this book I'm reading,
it's called The Scarlet Letters, compiled by
John Wiley Jr. It's a bunch of letters by Margaret
Mitchell. In the footnotes, there is one part.
where it tells us what Norma Shearer ended up
saying. So I'll just read it word for word. On
July 31st, Shearer issued a statement that she
was withdrawing from consideration for the role.
I have decided that I should not play Scarlet.
I am convinced that the majority of fans who
think I should not play this kind of character
on the screen are right. I appreciate tremendously
the interest they have shown. So that is really
classy, really polite thing to say, honestly.
That makes me really like her. But I think I
feel kind of bad for her, too, because she probably
got so many letters that were like that, like
the ones Selznick got that were like, don't do
this, you'll damage your reputation. No offense,
you're just not suited to this role, you know,
in that kind of vein. So I'm sure that was pretty
hard for her. And I'm glad she didn't get Scarlett,
I guess, because I'm glad Vivian Leigh got it.
But let's talk a little about the other actresses,
because they brought up so many in the letters.
They brought up Betty Davis and Katherine Hepburn
the most, but also Miriam Hopkins, Tallulah Bankhead.
Paulette Goddard, Margaret Sullivan, and there
were a few others. They got mentioned a lot too.
So as we know, Paulette Goddard, she almost got
it. Like there are so many screen tests of her.
Sorry, I'm out of breath. So many screen tests
of her auditioning for the role that it's almost
kind of like interesting that the public wanted
her because who knows if after the film, if they
would have. felt the same way I'm not saying
she would have been bad but like I wonder if
like after she had been cast how it would have
been met because unlike Vivian Lee people knew
who she was like they knew that she was an actress
and what she had done in the past so I just wonder
like For Vivian Lee, too, how many letters of
protest that got. Because I haven't read any
letters of protest about her, and I was kind
of looking for those. But like I said, that's
a topic for another day. I think Betty Davis
and Katharine Hepburn would have been pretty
good. I don't know. Well, they're tremendous
actresses, but I don't know if they could have
portrayed Scarlett exactly as she was in the
book. The reason I like Vivian Leigh so much
is because I think she perfectly captures this
balance between being imposing and intimidating
to people and then also very childlike. I think
she perfectly manages that balance. And she also
has that blend of sharp and delicate features
that Margaret Mitchell describes at the beginning
of the book. So I think she was just a perfect
Scarlett, but I don't know. I'm kind of biased.
The other actresses they mentioned, I don't know
as well. I did look up Norma Shearer after this.
She was in a movie called The Women from 1938.
I think it was directed by George Cukor. Hold
on, let me look that up. If you don't know, he
directed Gone with the Wind. He was one of the
directors. He didn't get credited in the end
because he quit. But The Women, 1939. Sorry,
did I say 1938? It was a 1939 movie. So same
year as Gone with the Wind. Yeah, it was directed
by George Cukor. And I found this scene with
her and Joan Crawford. And Joan Crawford seems
like she could have been a really good Scarlett.
And then Rosalind Russell was in it, too. I think
she was mentioned. Norma Shearer, Paulette Goddard,
Joan Fontaine, they were all in it. The gist
of the film is that the entire cast is female.
So it's a really interesting watch because it
has a lot of Scarlet rejects, so I recommend
that. Norma Shearer has a starring role if you
kind of want to see her in something. So, yeah.
I guess I'll end it here. That's what I wanted
to talk about today is this very random bit of
information that came to my attention, this whole
fiasco with Norma Shearer, which pretty much
everybody has forgotten about now because Vivian
Leigh was cast, so it didn't come to fruition.
It was certainly remembered by people who lived
during that time and they thought that it might
have happened. And, you know, all this drama,
all these passionate feelings people had were
for absolutely nothing because she wasn't actually
cast. It was fake news, basically. And she never
got the role. So, yeah. But thanks for listening.
If you got this far, let me know about your thoughts
on these letters, if you have any. I might just
be talking to myself for this whole podcast and
that is perfectly okay. But thank you for humoring
me and my creative outlet. I will see you next
time.