WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:03.500 The Podcast Learning Festival isn't another learning 00:00:03.500 --> 00:00:06.459 conference. It's the UK's first event dedicated 00:00:06.459 --> 00:00:09.980 to podcasting and workplace learning. Live recordings, 00:00:10.179 --> 00:00:12.880 practical sessions and real case studies. It's 00:00:12.880 --> 00:00:15.640 taking place in London on the 26th of February. 00:00:16.100 --> 00:00:31.059 Details are at podcastlearningfest .live Hello 00:00:31.059 --> 00:00:34.159 everyone and welcome to this episode, the Appearing 00:00:34.159 --> 00:00:36.200 on Video 1 of the Women Talking About Learning 00:00:36.200 --> 00:00:39.460 podcast. I'm Andrew Jacobs. In today's digital 00:00:39.460 --> 00:00:42.579 age, video has become an essential tool for communication, 00:00:42.939 --> 00:00:45.719 whether for social media, networking or professional 00:00:45.719 --> 00:00:48.920 presentations. Yet many people still struggle 00:00:48.920 --> 00:00:51.600 with the idea of appearing on camera. So to talk 00:00:51.600 --> 00:00:54.000 about this further, we have two fabulous guests. 00:00:54.859 --> 00:00:58.399 Our first guest is Leo Batchelor. Leo is a video 00:00:58.399 --> 00:01:01.289 and presenter. coach and former TV presenter, 00:01:01.570 --> 00:01:05.090 videographer and TEDx producer. Her strapline 00:01:05.090 --> 00:01:07.829 is Video Without the Cringe and she's passionate 00:01:07.829 --> 00:01:10.510 about helping service professionals get started 00:01:10.510 --> 00:01:14.609 with videos and to be themselves on camera. Our 00:01:14.609 --> 00:01:17.730 second guest is Sarah Pocklington. Sarah is on 00:01:17.730 --> 00:01:20.090 a mission to help everyone, especially women, 00:01:20.250 --> 00:01:23.370 show up on camera without the cringe, overthinking 00:01:23.370 --> 00:01:26.739 or the hate -how -I -look narrative. She's a 00:01:26.739 --> 00:01:30.200 speaker, facilitator, and coach with 30 years 00:01:30.200 --> 00:01:32.560 experience in learning and development. With 00:01:32.560 --> 00:01:35.040 a lifelong love of performing, she blends confidence 00:01:35.040 --> 00:01:37.879 and clarity with a no -nonsense approach to help 00:01:37.879 --> 00:01:40.719 business owners and teams build connection and 00:01:40.719 --> 00:01:43.519 real presence on camera. This was recorded in 00:01:43.519 --> 00:01:46.900 December 2025, and it is a magnificent conversation. 00:01:47.200 --> 00:01:50.879 So, settle back and enjoy. This is women talking 00:01:50.879 --> 00:01:54.260 about learning. This is Liu and Sarah talking 00:01:54.260 --> 00:01:57.760 about appearing on video. So Sarah, do you want 00:01:57.760 --> 00:02:00.079 to start us off? What was your video journey? 00:02:00.340 --> 00:02:04.299 Where did it all start? It actually started by 00:02:04.299 --> 00:02:09.319 accident. If you'd said to me two or three years 00:02:09.319 --> 00:02:12.120 ago I would be talking about people appearing 00:02:12.120 --> 00:02:16.300 on video, I would have said absolutely no way. 00:02:16.990 --> 00:02:19.150 And the first time I did, the only reason I ever 00:02:19.150 --> 00:02:21.349 did it was because I was challenged to do it 00:02:21.349 --> 00:02:25.849 as part of a group I was in. And there was a 00:02:25.849 --> 00:02:29.650 reward. There was a bonus if you did a live broadcast 00:02:29.650 --> 00:02:31.830 into the Facebook group. And I'm like, I'm going 00:02:31.830 --> 00:02:34.849 to have that. And I'll be totally honest. There 00:02:34.849 --> 00:02:36.830 was a bonus. I knew it was going to be a good 00:02:36.830 --> 00:02:42.610 bonus. And it was. And I did this live. into 00:02:42.610 --> 00:02:44.849 the facebook group and bearing in mind i spent 00:02:44.849 --> 00:02:46.710 my entire career in learning and development 00:02:46.710 --> 00:02:52.650 at the front of the classroom designing delivering 00:02:52.650 --> 00:02:55.370 facilitating running workshops and suddenly i 00:02:55.370 --> 00:02:58.710 was stood there and i'll call it the blinking 00:02:58.710 --> 00:03:01.990 red dot mine's actually blue looking at this 00:03:01.990 --> 00:03:04.949 dot and i went and it just felt really really 00:03:04.949 --> 00:03:09.800 odd and i did it And I enjoyed it. And then people 00:03:09.800 --> 00:03:12.620 started asking me, well, you were really good 00:03:12.620 --> 00:03:16.020 at it. How did you do that? And it made me, that's 00:03:16.020 --> 00:03:19.340 what got me thinking. And then I realized, and 00:03:19.340 --> 00:03:21.860 then I started to notice just how many people 00:03:21.860 --> 00:03:25.939 weren't doing it. And that's on social media, 00:03:25.939 --> 00:03:28.639 at business, at work, all that. It's just that 00:03:28.639 --> 00:03:30.379 people weren't doing it. And I was like, why 00:03:30.379 --> 00:03:34.159 aren't people doing it? And I'm sure we'll come 00:03:34.159 --> 00:03:37.289 back to that. later on but how did you get started? 00:03:37.849 --> 00:03:40.289 you what's your where's your interest from yeah 00:03:40.289 --> 00:03:43.150 so I was I was always petrified of public speaking 00:03:43.150 --> 00:03:46.610 and particularly around like sharing ideas and 00:03:46.610 --> 00:03:49.069 I remember as a teenager a friend of mine wanting 00:03:49.069 --> 00:03:52.030 to like play radio like pretend that we were 00:03:52.030 --> 00:03:54.330 radio hosts and it freaked me out so much so 00:03:54.330 --> 00:03:56.449 it was always it was like the furthest thing 00:03:56.449 --> 00:04:00.229 from my thoughts I started working at a stop 00:04:00.229 --> 00:04:02.430 -motion animation studio as a producer so I was 00:04:02.430 --> 00:04:05.569 making videos but of course never being on camera 00:04:05.569 --> 00:04:08.610 and the first time Well, I did a little bit at 00:04:08.610 --> 00:04:12.349 university, actually, because I did a lot of 00:04:12.349 --> 00:04:14.629 sport and I did a lot of wakeboarding. And there 00:04:14.629 --> 00:04:17.529 was like a Nike campaign about like engaging 00:04:17.529 --> 00:04:21.850 women more in sport and activity. And so they 00:04:21.850 --> 00:04:23.810 were talking to people about their sports. And 00:04:23.810 --> 00:04:26.449 so I could although I was scared about kind of. 00:04:26.839 --> 00:04:29.819 public speaking in that formal sense speaking 00:04:29.819 --> 00:04:33.220 about a sport that I loved and was enthusiastic 00:04:33.220 --> 00:04:36.060 and I wanted to get more women into it that actually 00:04:36.060 --> 00:04:38.779 was all right because it wasn't okay I've got 00:04:38.779 --> 00:04:40.220 to get this right and I've got to get it perfect 00:04:40.220 --> 00:04:43.480 it was just hey being excited and chatting about 00:04:43.480 --> 00:04:45.160 what you love so actually that was probably my 00:04:45.160 --> 00:04:48.439 very first experience of of getting on video 00:04:48.949 --> 00:04:51.050 But actually then when it came to like doing 00:04:51.050 --> 00:04:54.509 it myself and making videos myself, it's a whole 00:04:54.509 --> 00:04:57.029 nother world, isn't it? But I actually did a 00:04:57.029 --> 00:05:00.949 challenge called 100 Sports in 100 Days. And 00:05:00.949 --> 00:05:04.129 I basically, as the name said, did 100 consecutive 00:05:04.129 --> 00:05:07.350 sports in 100 consecutive days and filmed myself. 00:05:08.110 --> 00:05:10.610 doing those sports so it was kind of a bit of 00:05:10.610 --> 00:05:13.029 a throwing myself in at the deep end if I commit 00:05:13.029 --> 00:05:15.509 to doing this challenge I've got to make these 00:05:15.509 --> 00:05:18.949 videos and again I was talking about sport so 00:05:18.949 --> 00:05:21.490 it was easy and a lot of it wasn't me talking 00:05:21.490 --> 00:05:24.389 it was doing activities so it's funny for me 00:05:24.389 --> 00:05:28.129 the nerves were always about what I say but being 00:05:28.129 --> 00:05:30.649 on camera wasn't wasn't the big deal it was like 00:05:30.649 --> 00:05:33.649 what do you say really but that's been the area 00:05:33.649 --> 00:05:36.899 that I found kind of most interesting is there's 00:05:36.899 --> 00:05:38.959 the fear of of what we look like and showing 00:05:38.959 --> 00:05:42.579 up but actually saying something without waffling 00:05:42.579 --> 00:05:45.399 and being you know something that people care 00:05:45.399 --> 00:05:47.899 about and get value from for me has always been 00:05:47.899 --> 00:05:51.060 the the challenge for people um but also the 00:05:51.060 --> 00:05:53.079 interesting bit I think where there's that that 00:05:53.079 --> 00:05:55.699 opportunity to learn so yeah I think that's really 00:05:55.699 --> 00:05:58.079 interesting because you'd you because you were 00:05:58.079 --> 00:06:00.259 doing something that wasn't you directly in this 00:06:00.259 --> 00:06:02.339 but it wasn't a hundred percent focus on you 00:06:02.339 --> 00:06:06.360 but it was It was about you. You were in the 00:06:06.360 --> 00:06:09.220 video. You were showing your skills. You were 00:06:09.220 --> 00:06:11.839 trying out those different sports. And it was 00:06:11.839 --> 00:06:15.000 something you were immersed in and felt comfortable 00:06:15.000 --> 00:06:18.220 doing. The video became secondary. But it is 00:06:18.220 --> 00:06:21.480 that sort of being in front of the camera, whether 00:06:21.480 --> 00:06:25.120 you are doing it on your phone or you are maybe 00:06:25.120 --> 00:06:29.379 talking to a remote audience. It is very like 00:06:29.379 --> 00:06:32.370 the public speaking. side of things. It's very 00:06:32.370 --> 00:06:35.230 much that, you know, a lot of people struggle 00:06:35.230 --> 00:06:39.829 to stand on stage and talk to an audience. Historically, 00:06:39.870 --> 00:06:43.250 it's been noted as one of the biggest fears that 00:06:43.250 --> 00:06:46.990 people have. And there is a huge element of that 00:06:46.990 --> 00:06:51.470 when we are doing video. And I think it's also 00:06:51.470 --> 00:06:55.129 about just at this point, we're not just talking 00:06:55.129 --> 00:06:57.009 about video creation here. We're talking about 00:06:57.600 --> 00:07:00.540 recording ourselves on camera in some form or 00:07:00.540 --> 00:07:03.399 being involved. So that could be a network meeting. 00:07:03.480 --> 00:07:06.420 It could be a job interview. It could be content 00:07:06.420 --> 00:07:09.040 that you're creating for your business, but you 00:07:09.040 --> 00:07:12.319 are putting your face on camera and you are putting 00:07:12.319 --> 00:07:14.920 yourself out there. And it's that combination 00:07:14.920 --> 00:07:18.779 of the fear of public speaking. And for me, it 00:07:18.779 --> 00:07:21.420 wasn't so much the, what am I going to say? It 00:07:21.420 --> 00:07:24.620 was the, oh my God, that's my face. That's what 00:07:24.620 --> 00:07:26.740 I look like. I'm putting my face on the screen. 00:07:26.899 --> 00:07:30.399 Does anybody want to see that? Am I too old? 00:07:30.639 --> 00:07:32.779 What are people going to think? And that judgment 00:07:32.779 --> 00:07:35.899 piece was coming in. So you weren't just dealing 00:07:35.899 --> 00:07:37.839 with the public speaking phase. You're dealing 00:07:37.839 --> 00:07:41.319 with some internal stuff about your identity 00:07:41.319 --> 00:07:45.600 and how comfortable you are being seen. And you 00:07:45.600 --> 00:07:48.040 were comfortable being seen doing the sport. 00:07:48.439 --> 00:07:51.709 We're not recording the... video for this conversation 00:07:51.709 --> 00:07:54.629 today, but you and I are talking to each other 00:07:54.629 --> 00:07:57.250 via a script. We're looking at each other on 00:07:57.250 --> 00:07:59.990 camera. We're inside that little box. It's a 00:07:59.990 --> 00:08:04.790 bit uncomfortable, isn't it? Yeah. And this is 00:08:04.790 --> 00:08:06.870 what I guess, you're absolutely right. You hit 00:08:06.870 --> 00:08:09.050 the nail on the head that video makes us more 00:08:09.050 --> 00:08:11.009 self -conscious because we can see ourselves 00:08:11.009 --> 00:08:15.250 and we're recorded and preserved in what we say. 00:08:15.629 --> 00:08:17.910 But yeah, what you said about identity is spot 00:08:17.910 --> 00:08:20.829 on. And that's what I love about video now is 00:08:20.829 --> 00:08:23.350 that, yes, it's hard and it forces you to come 00:08:23.350 --> 00:08:26.290 face to face with yourself and actually see yourself 00:08:26.290 --> 00:08:28.490 back. But for me, that's where the opportunity 00:08:28.490 --> 00:08:32.250 is, because when you see, OK, what you don't 00:08:32.250 --> 00:08:35.409 like about yourself on screen, I often find it's 00:08:35.409 --> 00:08:39.149 when I'm trying to be something I'm not. And 00:08:39.149 --> 00:08:41.549 so that's how I try to approach it is if I see 00:08:41.549 --> 00:08:44.730 something or I'm feeling about being on camera, 00:08:44.750 --> 00:08:47.129 it's often because I have this. Yeah, I have 00:08:47.129 --> 00:08:49.950 to be like X, Y or Z. Whereas when I get back 00:08:49.950 --> 00:08:52.470 to, OK, I can just be myself. Suddenly what I 00:08:52.470 --> 00:08:55.090 see, I like, but I don't like seeing like the 00:08:55.090 --> 00:08:58.149 mask or the act or the fakeness. But we all do 00:08:58.149 --> 00:09:00.029 it. I think we subconsciously do it, don't we? 00:09:00.090 --> 00:09:03.350 Because there is this expectation of. Well, I 00:09:03.350 --> 00:09:05.730 mean, certainly now video is so accessible and 00:09:05.730 --> 00:09:07.889 cheap and it's everywhere now. But I mean, back 00:09:07.889 --> 00:09:10.269 in the day, you know, certainly when I started, 00:09:10.289 --> 00:09:11.950 when I started work at the animation studio, 00:09:12.049 --> 00:09:14.049 like, yeah, it wasn't live action, but video 00:09:14.049 --> 00:09:17.190 was expensive, so expensive. And you get one 00:09:17.190 --> 00:09:19.570 shot at it and you can't do it on your phone. 00:09:19.590 --> 00:09:22.090 You're like hiring a big production crew. So 00:09:22.090 --> 00:09:24.830 there is this pressure to get it right that I 00:09:24.830 --> 00:09:28.029 think we don't. get so much now, but we're still 00:09:28.029 --> 00:09:31.350 in that space where it feels like we are and 00:09:31.350 --> 00:09:33.429 there's this expectation. Whereas in reality, 00:09:33.590 --> 00:09:35.549 you know, when you're filming anyway, you can 00:09:35.549 --> 00:09:37.629 just delete it. If you don't like a shot you've 00:09:37.629 --> 00:09:40.769 taken, delete it and do another one. That's absolutely, 00:09:40.850 --> 00:09:44.350 yeah. I mean, I'm of an age where I didn't grow 00:09:44.350 --> 00:09:48.730 up with cameras and I mean, my parents didn't 00:09:48.730 --> 00:09:51.440 have a camera. So I don't have that. photographs 00:09:51.440 --> 00:09:54.539 of me growing up and it's when I'm about 14, 00:09:54.639 --> 00:09:57.039 15 and I get given my own camera and then suddenly 00:09:57.039 --> 00:09:59.100 everything is recorded. But you had that thing 00:09:59.100 --> 00:10:02.700 of you had your, what was it, 24 shots on the 00:10:02.700 --> 00:10:04.559 camera. And I know I'm talking about sort of 00:10:04.559 --> 00:10:07.580 old fashioned type photos here, but you know, 00:10:07.600 --> 00:10:09.460 you were very careful what pictures you took. 00:10:09.870 --> 00:10:12.549 But now with the digital age, you can do something 00:10:12.549 --> 00:10:14.450 and you can redo it and you can redo it and you 00:10:14.450 --> 00:10:17.710 can redo it. And sometimes the act of redoing 00:10:17.710 --> 00:10:19.269 it is where the pressure comes from because you 00:10:19.269 --> 00:10:21.570 are looking for the perfection. Yeah. And so 00:10:21.570 --> 00:10:24.110 it is a lot easier from that point of view in 00:10:24.110 --> 00:10:26.129 that we can get rid of what we don't like and 00:10:26.129 --> 00:10:28.950 we can create something else. But actually getting 00:10:28.950 --> 00:10:31.269 people to do it in the first place and understand 00:10:31.269 --> 00:10:34.769 and be comfortable with, it's not about how you 00:10:34.769 --> 00:10:36.769 look and how you sound and how you come across, 00:10:37.009 --> 00:10:40.919 but it is. in your head about how you look and 00:10:40.919 --> 00:10:43.940 how you sound and how you come across. And the 00:10:43.940 --> 00:10:47.159 expectations, we were talking about this before 00:10:47.159 --> 00:10:50.500 we started, the expectations, particularly on 00:10:50.500 --> 00:10:54.960 women in terms of appearance and how they show 00:10:54.960 --> 00:10:56.840 up and how they look. If you've got somebody 00:10:56.840 --> 00:11:01.240 who is even mildly sensitive about how they look 00:11:01.240 --> 00:11:02.980 and you then are putting them in a situation 00:11:02.980 --> 00:11:05.840 where they're going to be on camera. So this 00:11:05.840 --> 00:11:08.440 could be in a Zoom meeting at work. for example, 00:11:08.580 --> 00:11:10.600 or maybe they're going to an online networking 00:11:10.600 --> 00:11:14.000 event, there is a huge amount of pressure on 00:11:14.000 --> 00:11:16.240 that person before they've even got started at 00:11:16.240 --> 00:11:18.580 the what am I going to wear, what looks good. 00:11:18.700 --> 00:11:21.779 And it goes beyond the normal rules of what am 00:11:21.779 --> 00:11:24.279 I going to wear because you can wear things in 00:11:24.279 --> 00:11:26.820 person that you maybe are not quite so ideal 00:11:26.820 --> 00:11:30.539 on camera or you think you can't wear certain 00:11:30.539 --> 00:11:32.679 things on camera because somebody said, oh, you've 00:11:32.679 --> 00:11:35.379 always got to wear block colours. And it's about 00:11:35.379 --> 00:11:39.100 having that confidence. in yourself like you 00:11:39.100 --> 00:11:41.360 say to show up as yourself that you don't have 00:11:41.360 --> 00:11:42.879 to have your makeup done you don't have to have 00:11:42.879 --> 00:11:45.100 your hair done but people feel that they do yeah 00:11:45.100 --> 00:11:47.080 and then again it's that pressure before we've 00:11:47.080 --> 00:11:49.659 even got the conversation started and people 00:11:49.659 --> 00:11:52.679 are bringing all of that into the content yeah 00:11:52.679 --> 00:11:56.980 definitely I almost the temptation has in the 00:11:56.980 --> 00:11:59.460 past been certainly for me to want to put makeup 00:11:59.460 --> 00:12:03.519 on or whatever but I actually actively don't 00:12:03.519 --> 00:12:06.679 now majority of the time because it's not how 00:12:06.679 --> 00:12:10.059 I show up in person like I'm lazy I'm too lazy 00:12:10.059 --> 00:12:12.080 to do my makeup and you know having a sporty 00:12:12.080 --> 00:12:14.519 background having makeup and then going for swim 00:12:14.519 --> 00:12:17.139 or whatever isn't isn't necessarily conducive 00:12:17.139 --> 00:12:20.059 but I guess for me it's very much I think the 00:12:20.059 --> 00:12:22.620 temptation as we've said on camera is to right 00:12:22.620 --> 00:12:24.320 I've got to put on this performance or this show 00:12:24.320 --> 00:12:27.100 but actually for me it's like how can I be as 00:12:27.100 --> 00:12:29.919 congruent when I'm on camera as I am in real 00:12:29.919 --> 00:12:34.279 life yeah and so it's If I look all kind of dolled 00:12:34.279 --> 00:12:37.019 up and perfect on camera and then in real life 00:12:37.019 --> 00:12:39.980 I turn up all scruffy and no makeup, hair all 00:12:39.980 --> 00:12:43.159 a bit crazy and wild. then then that's not for 00:12:43.159 --> 00:12:44.860 people who meet me they're going to go oh something 00:12:44.860 --> 00:12:47.039 doesn't fit and doesn't like it's not aligned 00:12:47.039 --> 00:12:50.399 right so I actively don't but then saying that 00:12:50.399 --> 00:12:53.440 I make sure I've got a good light right so it's 00:12:53.440 --> 00:12:57.700 still being aware of of how you look but trying 00:12:57.700 --> 00:12:59.919 to do it in a I don't know for me personally 00:12:59.919 --> 00:13:04.860 it's in a non -dressy way and more of a maybe 00:13:04.860 --> 00:13:07.419 kind of I guess using natural assets and just 00:13:07.419 --> 00:13:09.840 being conscious of how things like lighting and 00:13:09.840 --> 00:13:11.740 sound and all that kind of thing does impact 00:13:11.740 --> 00:13:15.940 how well people can consume. and engage with 00:13:15.940 --> 00:13:18.159 what you're saying. So it's an interesting balance. 00:13:18.340 --> 00:13:20.639 And that's so interesting. Yeah, that's so interesting 00:13:20.639 --> 00:13:22.279 because that's something that I talk about a 00:13:22.279 --> 00:13:25.820 lot, both with organizations when we're talking 00:13:25.820 --> 00:13:27.879 about how they can get people to engage in their 00:13:27.879 --> 00:13:30.279 Zoom meetings, but also with business owners 00:13:30.279 --> 00:13:33.159 who want to do more social media type content. 00:13:33.240 --> 00:13:36.899 They want to get more visible. And it is about 00:13:36.899 --> 00:13:40.820 understanding the basics. Most of us don't know. 00:13:40.899 --> 00:13:43.740 Most of us have never had any training in how 00:13:43.740 --> 00:13:46.340 to use an online platform. We've never actually 00:13:46.340 --> 00:13:48.519 been on a course on how to use our phone and 00:13:48.519 --> 00:13:51.740 make a video on our phone. Let's face it. And 00:13:51.740 --> 00:13:55.480 there are people who cottoned on to that. and 00:13:55.480 --> 00:13:57.320 said right people don't know how to do this so 00:13:57.320 --> 00:13:59.840 I'm going to make my business showing people 00:13:59.840 --> 00:14:03.259 how to make videos for social media like Instagram 00:14:03.259 --> 00:14:06.279 or TikTok and they'll give you the tips and that's 00:14:06.279 --> 00:14:08.179 where most people have had their learning from 00:14:08.179 --> 00:14:11.179 and things like whilst I mean I don't always 00:14:11.179 --> 00:14:13.700 wear makeup I do sometimes it for me it depends 00:14:13.700 --> 00:14:16.360 on the type of meeting that it is it depends 00:14:16.360 --> 00:14:18.539 on who I'm talking to it depends on how I'm feeling 00:14:18.539 --> 00:14:21.870 it really depends on you know what would I do 00:14:21.870 --> 00:14:24.129 if I was going in person that's my rule of thumb 00:14:24.129 --> 00:14:26.090 if I would get dressed up to go and meet this 00:14:26.090 --> 00:14:28.450 person whether it's a friend or a business meeting 00:14:28.450 --> 00:14:31.809 I will get dressed up or not depend you know 00:14:31.809 --> 00:14:35.750 it really depends on who it is rather than letting 00:14:35.750 --> 00:14:37.950 that sort of oh my god I've got to get dressed 00:14:37.950 --> 00:14:40.429 up this is for business I must look a particular 00:14:40.429 --> 00:14:45.100 way yeah get on top of me but yeah if if you 00:14:45.100 --> 00:14:47.539 show up as you if you are comfortable in what 00:14:47.539 --> 00:14:49.259 you're wearing if you are comfortable with how 00:14:49.259 --> 00:14:52.779 you are in that moment knowing how to use what 00:14:52.779 --> 00:14:55.320 you've either got in your hand or on your desk 00:14:55.320 --> 00:14:58.740 is key and things lighting i'm so pleased you 00:14:58.740 --> 00:15:01.860 mentioned that it fixes so many things if you've 00:15:01.860 --> 00:15:06.279 got good lighting and it and it's lighting that's 00:15:06.279 --> 00:15:08.700 in front of you not behind you i mean we've all 00:15:08.700 --> 00:15:11.139 seen those people that you know that sun halo 00:15:11.139 --> 00:15:16.929 silhouette yeah i can't see your eyes yeah and 00:15:16.929 --> 00:15:19.269 of course eye contact is a thing and if the lighting 00:15:19.269 --> 00:15:21.529 is bad and i can't see your eyes we're never 00:15:21.529 --> 00:15:24.549 going to connect um whether you are out on your 00:15:24.549 --> 00:15:27.990 dog walk chatting to your phone on about today's 00:15:27.990 --> 00:15:31.769 top tip on wellness or you are running a zoom 00:15:31.769 --> 00:15:34.409 meeting for your team i can't see your eyes if 00:15:34.409 --> 00:15:36.649 i can't see your face clearly the connection's 00:15:36.649 --> 00:15:39.289 not going to build so lighting and the classic 00:15:39.289 --> 00:15:42.210 for me is i as you can see the the listeners 00:15:42.210 --> 00:15:45.029 can't but i wear glasses so i have to think really 00:15:45.029 --> 00:15:46.950 carefully about where my lights are positioned 00:15:46.950 --> 00:15:49.649 because otherwise i use a ring light i i'm in 00:15:49.649 --> 00:15:54.129 danger of having ufos on my if i'm by a window 00:15:54.129 --> 00:15:57.929 i get reflection on my glasses and and you can't 00:15:57.929 --> 00:16:00.269 see we get so much information from people's 00:16:00.269 --> 00:16:02.750 eyes yeah so we need to be able to see them so 00:16:02.750 --> 00:16:06.629 so the lighting if you tweak nothing else if 00:16:06.629 --> 00:16:08.450 i had to pick one thing that people could do 00:16:08.450 --> 00:16:11.830 better it would be around sorting out your lighting 00:16:11.830 --> 00:16:15.539 yeah Because it can be quite a relatively simple 00:16:15.539 --> 00:16:17.259 thing that can make that big difference, isn't 00:16:17.259 --> 00:16:19.460 it? But then I will also say, I guess sometimes 00:16:19.460 --> 00:16:22.360 people then go the other way. They get so obsessed 00:16:22.360 --> 00:16:26.039 with the technical side that, well, two things. 00:16:26.100 --> 00:16:28.980 One, it becomes like an easy way to procrastinate 00:16:28.980 --> 00:16:30.919 and perfectionism because it's like, I've got 00:16:30.919 --> 00:16:33.460 to have all this kit. And I was working with 00:16:33.460 --> 00:16:35.759 a kind of a friend and colleague of mine who 00:16:35.759 --> 00:16:37.679 had bought all the kit and wanted to start doing 00:16:37.679 --> 00:16:39.860 video. And he kept kind of going back to talking 00:16:39.860 --> 00:16:42.919 about kit. We talked around in circles and I 00:16:42.919 --> 00:16:46.120 was like, you know what, this is becoming a way 00:16:46.120 --> 00:16:48.879 of you procrastinating versus, like you said, 00:16:48.919 --> 00:16:51.679 what is good enough? What can you do simply and 00:16:51.679 --> 00:16:55.620 easily rather than allowing that to... kind of 00:16:55.620 --> 00:16:58.480 come in and and and take over and and i think 00:16:58.480 --> 00:17:00.720 particularly you know stuff we see online and 00:17:00.720 --> 00:17:02.320 you know i see a lot of it because it's in my 00:17:02.320 --> 00:17:05.259 industry of like the very technical kind of people 00:17:05.259 --> 00:17:06.859 who are coming at video from a technical point 00:17:06.859 --> 00:17:09.279 of view like this is how you make a perfect video 00:17:09.279 --> 00:17:11.039 and you should do this and you shouldn't do that 00:17:11.039 --> 00:17:13.940 and all these rights and wrongs which are are 00:17:13.940 --> 00:17:17.619 correct but they're often the advanced level 00:17:17.619 --> 00:17:21.210 of video and things like that and getting on 00:17:21.210 --> 00:17:24.569 camera versus right you know what lean startup 00:17:24.569 --> 00:17:26.930 approach what's the minimum easiest thing you 00:17:26.930 --> 00:17:29.930 can do to get on camera but lots of people like 00:17:29.930 --> 00:17:32.450 focusing on it because it's a good way of procrastinating 00:17:32.450 --> 00:17:34.650 it when actually going back to what we were saying 00:17:34.650 --> 00:17:37.490 before what's stopping them is that it feels 00:17:37.490 --> 00:17:39.329 a bit cringe and it doesn't feel like me and 00:17:39.329 --> 00:17:41.549 all this kind of thing so yeah yeah it's really 00:17:41.549 --> 00:17:42.849 really interesting that you've said that because 00:17:42.849 --> 00:17:45.269 that's exactly what I find when I'm working with 00:17:45.269 --> 00:17:48.730 people I ran a program last year which was basically 00:17:48.730 --> 00:17:51.569 about building people's confidence to go live 00:17:51.569 --> 00:17:54.349 in an in a live interview which would be live 00:17:54.349 --> 00:17:58.289 streamed onto a social media platform and I always 00:17:58.289 --> 00:18:01.970 started with the equipment and the technology 00:18:01.970 --> 00:18:04.369 so how to get their lighting right think about 00:18:04.369 --> 00:18:07.089 their background camera position that sort of 00:18:07.089 --> 00:18:09.069 thing because that was the thing that people 00:18:09.069 --> 00:18:11.509 were giving as the reason they didn't want to 00:18:11.509 --> 00:18:14.210 do it yeah that was the number one reason people 00:18:14.210 --> 00:18:16.509 didn't want to do it and then it would become 00:18:16.509 --> 00:18:19.230 when I get a better microphone when I get my 00:18:19.230 --> 00:18:22.069 new light oh I'm getting a new camera and it's 00:18:22.069 --> 00:18:23.589 like well you've got your camera you've got your 00:18:23.589 --> 00:18:25.670 microphone you've got your light now why aren't 00:18:25.670 --> 00:18:29.190 you doing it what's the real reason so i think 00:18:29.190 --> 00:18:31.430 the technology and the equipment is often used 00:18:31.430 --> 00:18:33.970 as an excuse but you have everything you need 00:18:33.970 --> 00:18:37.289 in your hand in your pocket so we know our phones 00:18:37.289 --> 00:18:39.710 are so sophisticated now and we can do really 00:18:39.710 --> 00:18:42.349 clever things with them and know just knowing 00:18:42.349 --> 00:18:45.430 those basics about getting started and and you 00:18:45.430 --> 00:18:47.269 know so good lighting looking at the camera that 00:18:47.269 --> 00:18:50.869 type of stuff and then just talk yeah maybe start 00:18:50.869 --> 00:18:53.289 with something like you did which was the doing 00:18:53.289 --> 00:18:57.380 the sports stuff Because that was a nice bridge 00:18:57.380 --> 00:19:02.259 into it. The easiest way, absolutely, of getting 00:19:02.259 --> 00:19:04.519 on video, like you said, of stuff you can talk 00:19:04.519 --> 00:19:07.180 about and you're excited to talk about. It seems 00:19:07.180 --> 00:19:11.539 silly sometimes to say, but most people aren't 00:19:11.539 --> 00:19:13.500 excited by what they're trying to talk about. 00:19:13.859 --> 00:19:15.920 Yes, they might be committed or passionate about 00:19:15.920 --> 00:19:18.019 it, but maybe they're trying to say it in a way 00:19:18.019 --> 00:19:20.619 that's a bit flat or dry or very corporate or 00:19:20.619 --> 00:19:23.240 very stiff rather than, what do you generally 00:19:23.240 --> 00:19:26.140 like? energize to talk about and then that comes 00:19:26.140 --> 00:19:29.660 across on camera and yeah you might not be perfect 00:19:29.660 --> 00:19:32.339 and precise and concise and all this kind of 00:19:32.339 --> 00:19:35.420 thing but you're that doesn't matter and and 00:19:35.420 --> 00:19:38.539 that for me personally was the big shift in being 00:19:38.539 --> 00:19:40.380 able to get on camera myself was when I went 00:19:40.380 --> 00:19:42.680 you know what in my head growing up I was always 00:19:42.680 --> 00:19:45.099 like oh my god I'm too much I'm scatty I'm you 00:19:45.099 --> 00:19:47.339 know I got too much energy and like too much 00:19:47.339 --> 00:19:50.460 excitement and I was always trying to like I 00:19:50.460 --> 00:19:52.460 don't know, dull it down and be normal. Whereas 00:19:52.460 --> 00:19:54.319 when I went, you know what? I do get carried 00:19:54.319 --> 00:19:56.920 away and I do get overexcited, but actually for 00:19:56.920 --> 00:19:59.160 the right people, that's quite infectious. And 00:19:59.160 --> 00:20:01.880 it gives them permission to love what they do 00:20:01.880 --> 00:20:05.480 rather than this thing of trying to be, yeah, 00:20:05.519 --> 00:20:08.380 perfect. You can't, I don't know, maybe can you 00:20:08.380 --> 00:20:10.420 be perfect and passionate at the same time? I 00:20:10.420 --> 00:20:12.180 don't know. What are your thoughts? I think you 00:20:12.180 --> 00:20:14.099 can be perfectly passionate, but I don't think 00:20:14.099 --> 00:20:16.319 you'd be perfect. Passionate and passionate. 00:20:17.950 --> 00:20:20.930 It's that expectation that people have built 00:20:20.930 --> 00:20:23.710 around this. They see somebody else doing it 00:20:23.710 --> 00:20:26.930 that has really high production values. And I 00:20:26.930 --> 00:20:30.589 think there is a difference. It's not scientific, 00:20:30.750 --> 00:20:35.289 but I tend to find that men generally are more 00:20:35.289 --> 00:20:38.250 willing to just give it a go. But they're also 00:20:38.250 --> 00:20:40.589 more likely to go and buy the expensive kit. 00:20:41.530 --> 00:20:43.670 Whereas a lot of the women that I talk to, it's 00:20:43.670 --> 00:20:46.089 like, how do I get started? How do I get over 00:20:46.089 --> 00:20:49.809 this? Oh my God, I look terrible. And they talk 00:20:49.809 --> 00:20:51.109 themselves out of it. So they're willing, they 00:20:51.109 --> 00:20:52.549 want to give it a go, but they talk themselves 00:20:52.549 --> 00:20:57.329 out of it. And it's when you show up as yourself 00:20:57.329 --> 00:21:01.880 in person, people are drawn to you. The people 00:21:01.880 --> 00:21:05.039 that like you and feel your energy and get what 00:21:05.039 --> 00:21:07.940 you're about are drawn to you and they will come 00:21:07.940 --> 00:21:10.720 towards you in the room at that networking event. 00:21:10.819 --> 00:21:12.660 You will find yourself in conversations with 00:21:12.660 --> 00:21:15.440 them. And people think that that doesn't happen 00:21:15.440 --> 00:21:18.240 when we're on camera, when we're doing virtual 00:21:18.240 --> 00:21:21.700 conversations and recording meetings. Well, recording 00:21:21.700 --> 00:21:24.779 videos is a one way thing, but people will engage 00:21:24.779 --> 00:21:27.259 with watching that video and then come back to 00:21:27.259 --> 00:21:30.019 you. But if you can bring your energy and that's... 00:21:30.170 --> 00:21:32.730 a lot of what i do with people is focus on who 00:21:32.730 --> 00:21:35.609 is it that turns up in person and how do we get 00:21:35.609 --> 00:21:38.529 that person to turn up on the camera definitely 00:21:38.529 --> 00:21:41.269 and there is a there is a bit you said about 00:21:41.269 --> 00:21:43.950 being scatty and and a bit too much but actually 00:21:43.950 --> 00:21:47.509 that works on camera because you do need to generate 00:21:47.509 --> 00:21:49.349 more energy when you're on the camera because 00:21:49.349 --> 00:21:52.609 there is a loss as the message is transmitted. 00:21:53.150 --> 00:21:55.490 I can't be more scientific than that, but it's 00:21:55.490 --> 00:21:58.150 the idea that energy does dissipate as it goes 00:21:58.150 --> 00:22:01.230 through the lens. So show up as yourself. I'm 00:22:01.230 --> 00:22:04.309 quite bubbly. I'm quite animated. I use my hands 00:22:04.309 --> 00:22:06.849 a lot when I'm delivering talks. I tend to move 00:22:06.849 --> 00:22:09.710 around a lot. So I've created a setup for me 00:22:09.710 --> 00:22:13.230 at home that allows me to do that. So I'm standing 00:22:13.230 --> 00:22:15.950 up as I'm talking to you now. A lot of people 00:22:15.950 --> 00:22:19.089 get locked into that. I'm at my desk. I need 00:22:19.089 --> 00:22:22.509 to sit down. record this yes yeah and and that's 00:22:22.509 --> 00:22:25.309 very much yeah come I guess coming at things 00:22:25.309 --> 00:22:27.990 from a production background as well that's something 00:22:27.990 --> 00:22:31.549 I've very much seen is we because a lot traditionally 00:22:31.549 --> 00:22:33.970 people who would make videos would be a video 00:22:33.970 --> 00:22:36.009 professional right and they have their production 00:22:36.009 --> 00:22:39.269 process of how it's how they're taught what the 00:22:39.269 --> 00:22:41.609 the traditional values of how you make videos, 00:22:41.670 --> 00:22:43.789 but also what makes it easy for them to edit 00:22:43.789 --> 00:22:47.210 and produce, right? And then the person on camera 00:22:47.210 --> 00:22:50.990 gets kind of slotted into that process, but often 00:22:50.990 --> 00:22:53.250 they're not necessarily, they don't necessarily 00:22:53.250 --> 00:22:56.809 fit into that mold that the person's made, which 00:22:56.809 --> 00:22:59.490 is often, right, set up a camera on a tripod, 00:22:59.609 --> 00:23:01.730 nice and static. The person sits there with perfect 00:23:01.730 --> 00:23:03.349 lighting, big camera, all this kind of stuff 00:23:03.349 --> 00:23:05.230 around them. And that inherently feels unnatural 00:23:05.230 --> 00:23:07.910 for most people, for sure. Yes. Whereas something 00:23:07.910 --> 00:23:10.980 I'm trying to do a lot more of. and it is almost 00:23:10.980 --> 00:23:14.279 think about the person first. Like, yeah, how 00:23:14.279 --> 00:23:17.380 does the person naturally communicate? And like 00:23:17.380 --> 00:23:19.839 you said, if like you and like me too, I use 00:23:19.839 --> 00:23:22.079 my hands a lot. I like moving around. Like I 00:23:22.079 --> 00:23:24.480 always have lots of energy. So sitting still 00:23:24.480 --> 00:23:26.619 and rigid doesn't work. So it's going right. 00:23:26.759 --> 00:23:30.779 How can I create a filming process that enables 00:23:30.779 --> 00:23:34.519 me to be big in my gestures and things like that, 00:23:34.579 --> 00:23:38.019 which is often not a static camera in a rigid. 00:23:38.480 --> 00:23:40.500 of position with me sitting at the desk. It's 00:23:40.500 --> 00:23:43.420 a walk and talk, for example. So yeah, I find 00:23:43.420 --> 00:23:46.299 it really fascinating that how we balance this. 00:23:46.829 --> 00:23:49.289 both the, I guess, the public speaking, the communication 00:23:49.289 --> 00:23:53.250 side, combined with the video production, the 00:23:53.250 --> 00:23:57.069 technical side, and how they are interlinked. 00:23:57.069 --> 00:24:01.069 But we often go technical first, and then us 00:24:01.069 --> 00:24:03.890 afterwards, rather than let's bring that up first 00:24:03.890 --> 00:24:07.210 and design around it, which I don't hear or see 00:24:07.210 --> 00:24:09.750 many people doing. But I think there's a big 00:24:09.750 --> 00:24:12.200 opportunity in it. And I think there's people 00:24:12.200 --> 00:24:15.740 as well that will say, well, what I do doesn't 00:24:15.740 --> 00:24:19.880 work on video. I'm about meditation and calmness 00:24:19.880 --> 00:24:22.420 and stuff like that. So, you know, I do want 00:24:22.420 --> 00:24:25.059 to be sitting down. I do want to have that studio 00:24:25.059 --> 00:24:26.680 effect. And I think what you've just said there, 00:24:26.880 --> 00:24:29.000 you know, when you work with somebody like yourself, 00:24:29.279 --> 00:24:32.500 you can get them to help you to create that in 00:24:32.500 --> 00:24:35.160 a way that maybe you can't create on your own 00:24:35.160 --> 00:24:38.700 at home because you can give them a bigger space, 00:24:38.980 --> 00:24:41.599 for example. can help them with the lighting 00:24:41.599 --> 00:24:44.799 and and help them to create the the ambience 00:24:44.799 --> 00:24:47.839 that they would have as part of it well it's 00:24:47.839 --> 00:24:49.519 all right for you because you're doing training 00:24:49.519 --> 00:24:52.200 and they'll say video isn't for me because but 00:24:52.200 --> 00:24:54.180 i think if they actually talk to somebody there 00:24:54.180 --> 00:24:56.259 are lots of different ways of using video and 00:24:56.259 --> 00:24:57.859 sometimes having the professional is absolutely 00:24:57.859 --> 00:25:00.170 what you want Yeah, you're right. And because 00:25:00.170 --> 00:25:03.069 we default too much to or certainly in the space 00:25:03.069 --> 00:25:04.829 that I work with, people often go, well, I have 00:25:04.829 --> 00:25:06.569 to do knowledge sharing videos and I have to 00:25:06.569 --> 00:25:08.829 be the expert and give my top tips on how you 00:25:08.829 --> 00:25:13.329 do X, Y and Z. And if you're a coach or a facilitator, 00:25:13.390 --> 00:25:17.089 for example, you don't your approach of how you 00:25:17.089 --> 00:25:19.849 support people day to day is not to tell them 00:25:19.849 --> 00:25:22.509 what to do. Often it's to create the space for 00:25:22.509 --> 00:25:25.450 them to find their own answers. It's to ask questions. 00:25:25.450 --> 00:25:28.779 It's to be curious. And this goes. counter to 00:25:28.779 --> 00:25:31.819 I'm the expert on this and this is what you should 00:25:31.819 --> 00:25:34.220 do rather than exactly as you said okay how can 00:25:34.220 --> 00:25:37.240 you be that inquisitive curious person asking 00:25:37.240 --> 00:25:40.019 questions on video okay in theory you'd go well 00:25:40.019 --> 00:25:41.720 you've got no one speaking back so you can't 00:25:41.720 --> 00:25:44.900 but there absolutely are ways you know for example 00:25:44.900 --> 00:25:47.640 you ask that question and then you share examples 00:25:47.640 --> 00:25:50.200 like like most people would in a in a session 00:25:50.200 --> 00:25:52.559 right you'd you'd ask the question and then maybe 00:25:52.559 --> 00:25:54.220 you'd go well I'll say I'll give you an example 00:25:54.220 --> 00:25:56.119 and then we'll go around the room and everyone 00:25:56.119 --> 00:25:58.230 else can share but there's always that setting 00:25:58.230 --> 00:25:59.890 the scene at the beginning, isn't there? Absolutely. 00:25:59.990 --> 00:26:02.710 And I think there's also some very common mistakes 00:26:02.710 --> 00:26:06.769 that people make. And I know the one that I see 00:26:06.769 --> 00:26:10.769 most often, and it's not so much a mistake as 00:26:10.769 --> 00:26:14.289 a technique that people can develop. And that's 00:26:14.289 --> 00:26:17.839 the whole looking at the camera. thing because 00:26:17.839 --> 00:26:20.299 a lot of people make and we do it because we're 00:26:20.299 --> 00:26:22.779 programmed to look at faces so because we want 00:26:22.779 --> 00:26:24.619 to feel like we're talking to somebody we tend 00:26:24.619 --> 00:26:27.279 to talk talk to the screen more than we talk 00:26:27.279 --> 00:26:30.660 to our cameras yeah and getting into the habit 00:26:30.660 --> 00:26:32.539 of talking to your camera rather than looking 00:26:32.539 --> 00:26:34.680 at the person or when you're recording on your 00:26:34.680 --> 00:26:37.619 phone looking at the camera on your phone rather 00:26:37.619 --> 00:26:41.650 than at your face on the screen will make a massive 00:26:41.650 --> 00:26:44.029 difference and it will change how people view 00:26:44.029 --> 00:26:45.849 that video because they'll think they're being 00:26:45.849 --> 00:26:49.230 looked at. What would you, what do you see as 00:26:49.230 --> 00:26:53.329 the most common mistake or a technique that people 00:26:53.329 --> 00:26:56.230 could start to adopt and practice that could 00:26:56.230 --> 00:26:59.670 really shift their... Yeah, I think we've kind 00:26:59.670 --> 00:27:01.589 of touched on it already. But for me, the biggest 00:27:01.589 --> 00:27:04.369 mistake is when people have this rigid format 00:27:04.369 --> 00:27:06.970 that they feel they have to fit into rather than 00:27:06.970 --> 00:27:09.930 finding their way. And that's often when the 00:27:09.930 --> 00:27:13.690 cringe comes in. So, I mean, often I always start 00:27:13.690 --> 00:27:16.589 with when it comes to talking to camera. It's 00:27:16.589 --> 00:27:18.539 like, right, go for a walk. Go and do a walk 00:27:18.539 --> 00:27:21.660 and talk style as a just give it a go. And for 00:27:21.660 --> 00:27:24.039 some people, it doesn't work for everyone. But 00:27:24.039 --> 00:27:26.660 that's probably the biggest where people often 00:27:26.660 --> 00:27:28.900 get the biggest breakthrough is, oh, I can do 00:27:28.900 --> 00:27:31.400 it when I walk. And when I'm, you know, because 00:27:31.400 --> 00:27:33.460 then they don't have to look at the camera all 00:27:33.460 --> 00:27:35.099 the time. They don't have to stare down the lens. 00:27:35.220 --> 00:27:37.759 They can look around. They're looking off screen 00:27:37.759 --> 00:27:40.119 and it's far more natural. So I think that's 00:27:40.119 --> 00:27:42.000 like I said, it doesn't work for everyone. But 00:27:42.000 --> 00:27:44.059 for some, it's like, oh my God, why didn't I 00:27:44.059 --> 00:27:46.660 just think of this? It feels so obvious once 00:27:46.660 --> 00:27:49.680 you've done it, really. So that's probably like 00:27:49.680 --> 00:27:52.460 the biggest thing. We talked about, yeah, getting 00:27:52.460 --> 00:27:55.359 too obsessed with the technical side. I think 00:27:55.359 --> 00:27:57.079 also, and I guess another thing, and I'm going 00:27:57.079 --> 00:27:58.960 to probably upset some marketing people saying 00:27:58.960 --> 00:28:01.579 this, but often people think about their audience 00:28:01.579 --> 00:28:04.680 too much. And that's not to say don't, but when 00:28:04.680 --> 00:28:07.400 you're getting started, often there's so much 00:28:07.400 --> 00:28:10.839 emphasis on, well, how do I add value and what 00:28:10.839 --> 00:28:12.960 will they like to hear and all this kind of thing 00:28:12.960 --> 00:28:16.299 that we get so, it's almost like we're so obsessed 00:28:16.299 --> 00:28:18.980 with kind of pleasing everybody else that we 00:28:18.980 --> 00:28:22.859 lose our center. we lose ourself and we're like, 00:28:22.940 --> 00:28:25.579 okay, what do I want to say? And therefore, that's 00:28:25.579 --> 00:28:27.880 often why people will come across quite flat 00:28:27.880 --> 00:28:31.099 because they're trying to give to others without 00:28:31.099 --> 00:28:35.980 having any energy or belief or passion themselves 00:28:35.980 --> 00:28:39.319 to give with. So again, yeah, it's counterintuitive, 00:28:39.319 --> 00:28:41.380 but I often say, you know what? Be selfish. In 00:28:41.380 --> 00:28:44.140 your early videos, be super selfish. Film what 00:28:44.140 --> 00:28:46.970 you want to talk about, what lights you up. Have 00:28:46.970 --> 00:28:49.470 some fun with it and don't worry too much about 00:28:49.470 --> 00:28:52.529 the audience. Further down the line, yes, you 00:28:52.529 --> 00:28:55.349 can start tweaking and going, what actually will 00:28:55.349 --> 00:28:57.069 people get value from? But at the beginning, 00:28:57.269 --> 00:28:59.670 don't worry. That's how we all start off in life. 00:28:59.710 --> 00:29:04.369 As kids, we play with the toys and watch the 00:29:04.369 --> 00:29:07.190 movie that interest us. And then that shapes 00:29:07.190 --> 00:29:09.109 us and that often leads into, OK, well, what, 00:29:09.150 --> 00:29:11.009 you know, at school you can kind of go out, well, 00:29:11.069 --> 00:29:13.809 what degree should I do or what A -level should 00:29:13.809 --> 00:29:16.470 I do? But actually, you've kind of got to enjoy 00:29:16.470 --> 00:29:18.049 it because if you don't enjoy it, you're not 00:29:18.049 --> 00:29:20.470 going to last very long. Yeah, you might have 00:29:20.470 --> 00:29:21.950 an amazing and you might really hit the nail 00:29:21.950 --> 00:29:24.049 on the head for a lot of people. But if you can't 00:29:24.049 --> 00:29:26.029 be consistent with it, then it's not going to 00:29:26.029 --> 00:29:27.950 have the long term benefit, really, I guess. 00:29:28.569 --> 00:29:30.309 that people are looking to get from from video 00:29:30.309 --> 00:29:32.849 and communication in general and I think it's 00:29:32.849 --> 00:29:34.529 about remembering why you're making the videos 00:29:34.529 --> 00:29:37.569 because videos give us an opportunity to introduce 00:29:37.569 --> 00:29:40.589 ourselves to people to be in a room with people 00:29:40.589 --> 00:29:43.710 when we can't physically be in a room and so 00:29:43.710 --> 00:29:46.670 if so there is a pressure to do it because otherwise 00:29:46.670 --> 00:29:49.089 we feel that we're missing out on an opportunity 00:29:49.089 --> 00:29:52.990 but the person who shows up needs to be the person 00:29:52.990 --> 00:29:55.390 who would show up in person I was saying before 00:29:55.390 --> 00:29:58.829 so so I love that tip about start with something 00:29:58.829 --> 00:30:03.089 that really that is easy for you to do even if 00:30:03.089 --> 00:30:05.990 it's just in introducing yourself and the words 00:30:05.990 --> 00:30:08.410 that i just used there even if it's just that 00:30:08.410 --> 00:30:10.309 that doesn't sound that sounds like i'm diminishing 00:30:10.309 --> 00:30:12.529 it but it's such an important place to start 00:30:12.529 --> 00:30:14.410 if you come on and you introduce yourself with 00:30:14.410 --> 00:30:17.259 that energy with with your hair all windswept 00:30:17.259 --> 00:30:18.920 because you've been out in the rain walking your 00:30:18.920 --> 00:30:21.420 dog. People who've been out this morning in the 00:30:21.420 --> 00:30:24.960 rain walking their dog will immediately be drawn 00:30:24.960 --> 00:30:27.019 to you. It's like, here is somebody that lives 00:30:27.019 --> 00:30:29.319 in my kind of world. So it's a great way for 00:30:29.319 --> 00:30:33.099 you to show who you really are. And you're allowed 00:30:33.099 --> 00:30:36.359 to be who you really are because that's who people 00:30:36.359 --> 00:30:38.759 are going to engage with. Yeah. And what you 00:30:38.759 --> 00:30:40.299 said there kind of really hits the nail on the 00:30:40.299 --> 00:30:41.880 head that a lot of the time, all of this stuff 00:30:41.880 --> 00:30:43.420 we're talking about with video is permission, 00:30:43.640 --> 00:30:47.299 like permission. to be yourself, permission to 00:30:47.299 --> 00:30:49.619 be windswept, all those kind of things. And I 00:30:49.619 --> 00:30:53.119 think there's an opportunity where maybe in the 00:30:53.119 --> 00:30:55.819 past that there wasn't the permission. Whereas 00:30:55.819 --> 00:30:59.359 now with videos becoming more, you know, especially 00:30:59.359 --> 00:31:02.180 AI videos becoming perfect and polished and all 00:31:02.180 --> 00:31:04.059 this kind of stuff. Whereas actually the stuff 00:31:04.059 --> 00:31:07.819 that does well is the authentic, the messy, the 00:31:07.819 --> 00:31:10.759 rough, because then people know that it's real. 00:31:11.279 --> 00:31:13.740 Right. And you're saying about being windswept. 00:31:13.740 --> 00:31:16.940 I did one, yeah, a few weeks back and it was 00:31:16.940 --> 00:31:19.480 kind of all over the place because, and I purposely 00:31:19.480 --> 00:31:21.420 did it in the wind and I knew the audio would 00:31:21.420 --> 00:31:24.880 be terrible because with all the wind, but actually 00:31:24.880 --> 00:31:29.119 it was great because it was a bit crazy and a 00:31:29.119 --> 00:31:32.069 bit exciting and different. And, you know, we 00:31:32.069 --> 00:31:35.009 talk about visual hooks, but actually, yeah, 00:31:35.109 --> 00:31:38.630 you get that when you're not perfect in those 00:31:38.630 --> 00:31:41.210 spaces, really. And at the end of the day, video 00:31:41.210 --> 00:31:45.789 is a tool. It is a tool. But I think it's a tool 00:31:45.789 --> 00:31:48.089 that does come with a little bit of baggage. 00:31:48.329 --> 00:31:50.869 And really, I think you and I are here to sort 00:31:50.869 --> 00:31:52.970 of reduce the baggage that comes with it, particularly. 00:31:53.720 --> 00:31:56.259 for women because most of the people I talk to 00:31:56.259 --> 00:31:59.480 about this are women. Most of them say, I do 00:31:59.480 --> 00:32:02.039 feel pressure to be on camera. I don't know what 00:32:02.039 --> 00:32:04.839 to say. I'm worried about being laughed at. I'm 00:32:04.839 --> 00:32:07.299 worried about looking stupid. So they start their 00:32:07.299 --> 00:32:10.440 videos with, oh, sorry, I look such a mess or 00:32:10.440 --> 00:32:12.160 sorry, I didn't have time to put my makeup stuff 00:32:12.160 --> 00:32:14.960 on. And it's like, no. You don't need to do that. 00:32:15.000 --> 00:32:17.519 You might feel like you want to do that. But 00:32:17.519 --> 00:32:19.859 honestly, until you point it out to somebody, 00:32:20.160 --> 00:32:22.380 nobody's even noticed. And if they have noticed, 00:32:22.440 --> 00:32:26.779 they go, oh, great, a real human being. Somebody 00:32:26.779 --> 00:32:30.559 I can relate to and identify with. But it does 00:32:30.559 --> 00:32:32.839 come with pressure. So trying to reduce that 00:32:32.839 --> 00:32:34.880 baggage, reduce that pressure. I think that's 00:32:34.880 --> 00:32:36.839 what we're both all about. Yeah, definitely. 00:32:37.059 --> 00:32:39.900 But some of it, I think, you know, where maybe, 00:32:39.900 --> 00:32:42.799 not always, but maybe kind of women are kind 00:32:42.799 --> 00:32:44.900 of maybe more sensitive to it, I guess, is I 00:32:44.900 --> 00:32:48.119 think, you know, is maybe being more receptive 00:32:48.119 --> 00:32:53.339 to how we are going to be received and how kind 00:32:53.339 --> 00:32:56.279 of that expectation of wanting to make sure we're 00:32:56.279 --> 00:33:00.240 doing a good job and not boring people and are 00:33:00.240 --> 00:33:04.720 concise and also. you know, maybe sensitive to 00:33:04.720 --> 00:33:07.539 how people will respond and how our message is 00:33:07.539 --> 00:33:11.579 going to land. Whereas if we, so it becomes tricky 00:33:11.579 --> 00:33:15.460 to, there's more going on in your head to, okay, 00:33:15.519 --> 00:33:17.400 how will this land? Will they agree? Will they 00:33:17.400 --> 00:33:19.920 get it? Am I going to be too bossy if I'm giving 00:33:19.920 --> 00:33:23.109 top tips? Is it, you know? It's that perception 00:33:23.109 --> 00:33:26.589 to it, which means there's a million one. OK, 00:33:26.630 --> 00:33:27.950 I've got to do this, this, this and this rather 00:33:27.950 --> 00:33:30.809 than just screw it. I'm going to be myself and 00:33:30.809 --> 00:33:33.430 like it. And so I don't think it exclusively 00:33:33.430 --> 00:33:36.210 applies to video. It just obviously shows up 00:33:36.210 --> 00:33:39.210 in video because we see and hear ourselves. And 00:33:39.210 --> 00:33:41.529 because it's there's that permanence to it when 00:33:41.529 --> 00:33:43.769 it's recorded and captured and then maybe shared 00:33:43.769 --> 00:33:46.130 beyond that. And so it's that element of judgment, 00:33:46.230 --> 00:33:48.849 which, again, is something that often women face 00:33:48.849 --> 00:33:51.579 in the workplace, in business generally. more 00:33:51.579 --> 00:33:54.539 than men not exclusively but generally more than 00:33:54.539 --> 00:33:58.200 men but I think all of this really I guess like 00:33:58.200 --> 00:34:00.400 we said at the beginning there's this big pressure 00:34:00.400 --> 00:34:02.700 and we see people online doing all this stuff 00:34:02.700 --> 00:34:05.910 but it really is about starting small And in 00:34:05.910 --> 00:34:09.690 some ways that, yes, the algorithm and kind of 00:34:09.690 --> 00:34:11.969 LinkedIn getting harder and all this kind of 00:34:11.969 --> 00:34:14.570 stuff is quite tricky. And it's often a reason 00:34:14.570 --> 00:34:17.170 for people to kind of not do it or to worry about 00:34:17.170 --> 00:34:18.510 doing it because they've got to get it right. 00:34:18.769 --> 00:34:20.530 But I actually think in some ways when you're 00:34:20.530 --> 00:34:22.690 starting out, it's a good thing because you can 00:34:22.690 --> 00:34:24.809 go, you know what? And I'll often say to people, 00:34:24.949 --> 00:34:26.829 OK, let's do some videos. But you know what? 00:34:26.949 --> 00:34:28.909 And if they're worried about that judgment, I 00:34:28.909 --> 00:34:31.429 go, in all honesty, probably not many people 00:34:31.429 --> 00:34:33.030 are going to see it. Right. When you first start 00:34:33.030 --> 00:34:35.480 making videos in the nicest. way they're going 00:34:35.480 --> 00:34:37.519 to be a bit rubbish right it's like when you 00:34:37.519 --> 00:34:39.860 first play tennis for the first time you are 00:34:39.860 --> 00:34:42.500 going to be rubbish it would be terribly arrogant 00:34:42.500 --> 00:34:45.099 to assume you're not going to be right so it's 00:34:45.099 --> 00:34:47.920 like you've got because you've not refined your 00:34:47.920 --> 00:34:49.719 message you've not refined your style you're 00:34:49.719 --> 00:34:51.860 not refined your presenting you're going to get 00:34:51.860 --> 00:34:54.179 a few your you know your supporters your fans 00:34:54.179 --> 00:34:56.039 your friends giving you a like and that kind 00:34:56.039 --> 00:34:58.019 of stuff but it's mostly going to get ignored 00:34:58.019 --> 00:35:00.159 by the algorithm because you've not finessed 00:35:00.840 --> 00:35:03.320 And it's only by doing, and I very much love 00:35:03.320 --> 00:35:06.179 the idea of like the lean startup approach in 00:35:06.179 --> 00:35:08.960 the context of communication and video and building 00:35:08.960 --> 00:35:12.639 your style on social media. Over time, you will, 00:35:12.860 --> 00:35:16.619 as you get better, more people will engage. And 00:35:16.619 --> 00:35:19.079 then, and by which time you won't be so nervous, 00:35:19.159 --> 00:35:22.150 you won't be. you'll be more on it and you'll 00:35:22.150 --> 00:35:24.150 have nailed what works and what doesn't for other 00:35:24.150 --> 00:35:27.289 people but you only find that by starting and 00:35:27.289 --> 00:35:29.190 too many people are like they're all in their 00:35:29.190 --> 00:35:31.210 head and they're like I have to work out my message 00:35:31.210 --> 00:35:33.650 I have to work out my style I have to look perfect 00:35:33.650 --> 00:35:36.510 and all of this stuff not only stops them but 00:35:36.510 --> 00:35:39.869 also you can't work it out right you can only 00:35:39.869 --> 00:35:43.309 work it out in reality and this is what I find 00:35:43.309 --> 00:35:46.230 so interesting about video is it's like a dance. 00:35:46.349 --> 00:35:48.469 Like we all get obsessed with, right, how do 00:35:48.469 --> 00:35:51.809 I be the perfect tango dancer, right? And I'm 00:35:51.809 --> 00:35:53.730 kind of getting my steps and all this kind of 00:35:53.730 --> 00:35:56.110 stuff. But a tango is danced with two people, 00:35:56.170 --> 00:35:59.030 right? And so there is that interplay. And yes, 00:35:59.090 --> 00:36:01.449 you learn your steps first, but then you've got 00:36:01.449 --> 00:36:03.750 to get out in the real world and dance with your 00:36:03.750 --> 00:36:06.510 audience and step on each other's toes and get 00:36:06.510 --> 00:36:09.449 it wrong. And then you'll start to flow together. 00:36:09.710 --> 00:36:12.929 So for me, it massively is about. starting small, 00:36:13.090 --> 00:36:16.710 having a go. I mean, a specific tip around this, 00:36:16.769 --> 00:36:18.329 I've had a couple of clients who have said, you 00:36:18.329 --> 00:36:20.090 know, that they're wanting to put stuff on LinkedIn, 00:36:20.090 --> 00:36:22.389 but they've started by putting stuff on TikTok 00:36:22.389 --> 00:36:24.130 because they don't really care about TikTok. 00:36:24.389 --> 00:36:26.210 And they're like, oh, it's so flippant and all 00:36:26.210 --> 00:36:28.230 this kind of stuff. They put it out there to 00:36:28.230 --> 00:36:30.269 kind of almost like their training wheels and 00:36:30.269 --> 00:36:32.429 their practice ground and their sandbox where 00:36:32.429 --> 00:36:34.690 they can try things out before they then move 00:36:34.690 --> 00:36:37.369 over to something more scary in inverted commas. 00:36:37.769 --> 00:36:40.710 like LinkedIn and professional networks. That's 00:36:40.710 --> 00:36:42.170 really interesting because I've had people who've 00:36:42.170 --> 00:36:44.050 come from LinkedIn and gone across to TikTok 00:36:44.050 --> 00:36:47.949 and it's taken off on TikTok because it allowed 00:36:47.949 --> 00:36:50.829 them to bring out their personality and to have 00:36:50.829 --> 00:36:53.579 their style. And I think from a getting started 00:36:53.579 --> 00:36:56.039 point of view, people often say to me, it's like, 00:36:56.139 --> 00:36:58.780 well, I need to learn it. I need to rehearse 00:36:58.780 --> 00:37:00.940 it. It needs, you know, we're back to that perfection 00:37:00.940 --> 00:37:05.320 thing. And what I tend to do with mine is I'll 00:37:05.320 --> 00:37:07.579 work out what I want to say. I'll say it out 00:37:07.579 --> 00:37:10.440 loud a couple of times before I record it. And 00:37:10.440 --> 00:37:14.300 then I'll record it. And then I post it. So I 00:37:14.300 --> 00:37:16.800 always have this thing that people get very hung 00:37:16.800 --> 00:37:19.559 up on the live element of it. It's like, I need 00:37:19.559 --> 00:37:21.380 to do one while I'm out walking the dog today. 00:37:21.619 --> 00:37:24.159 And they'll start by trying to do it live onto 00:37:24.159 --> 00:37:26.639 whatever platform. And it's just disastrous. 00:37:26.860 --> 00:37:29.239 It's just stressful and anxiety and it doesn't 00:37:29.239 --> 00:37:31.920 work and all that. So what I do is I do a couple 00:37:31.920 --> 00:37:34.320 of run -throughs for myself and then I press 00:37:34.320 --> 00:37:36.320 record, record it. And when I'm happy with the 00:37:36.320 --> 00:37:40.059 recording, that's when I post it to social media. 00:37:40.159 --> 00:37:43.639 So it's live. And it was done in one take, but 00:37:43.639 --> 00:37:46.840 it's not live in the, oh my goodness, I'm committed 00:37:46.840 --> 00:37:48.659 and I've forgotten what I was going to say and 00:37:48.659 --> 00:37:51.579 what's everyone going to think kind of way. So 00:37:51.579 --> 00:37:54.099 you don't, it is that answer. You don't actually 00:37:54.099 --> 00:37:56.599 have to be, it's live, but you don't have to 00:37:56.599 --> 00:38:00.199 be live into the platform. Yes. Yeah. as live. 00:38:00.340 --> 00:38:01.760 And then you've got, and you don't have to worry 00:38:01.760 --> 00:38:03.820 about technical things and all that kind of stuff 00:38:03.820 --> 00:38:06.139 as well. So yeah, absolutely. No, really good. 00:38:06.239 --> 00:38:08.860 So I think we're coming up to time. We're giving, 00:38:08.860 --> 00:38:12.679 given the checkered flag, like final lap. What, 00:38:12.739 --> 00:38:15.619 what would you say, I guess, kind of top takeaways, 00:38:16.019 --> 00:38:17.659 I don't know, one takeaway, three takeaways, 00:38:17.780 --> 00:38:20.219 whatever works for you, that people, for people 00:38:20.219 --> 00:38:23.179 getting started with video. Is to give it a go, 00:38:23.340 --> 00:38:27.159 find one thing that you think you can, that you 00:38:27.159 --> 00:38:30.739 can talk about with your passion your energy 00:38:30.739 --> 00:38:34.039 your personality because it's your personality 00:38:34.039 --> 00:38:37.059 that's going to make this video work definitely 00:38:37.059 --> 00:38:40.420 definitely I think my tip would be to to pick 00:38:40.420 --> 00:38:43.739 up your phone with no intention of posting and 00:38:43.739 --> 00:38:48.340 just talk to it and let all of the gobbledygook 00:38:48.340 --> 00:38:51.659 as it feels in our head all of it's get it all 00:38:51.659 --> 00:38:55.500 out right yeah I see a bit like you know in your 00:38:55.500 --> 00:38:56.840 head and all the thoughts of what you should 00:38:56.840 --> 00:38:58.539 and shouldn't do is a little bit like that that 00:38:58.539 --> 00:39:01.260 drawer full of all the crap that you you're like 00:39:01.260 --> 00:39:03.219 you know you should clear out it's like a drawer 00:39:03.219 --> 00:39:05.840 that's got everything exactly so my my starting 00:39:05.840 --> 00:39:08.360 point for people is is hit record do a 10 minute 00:39:08.360 --> 00:39:12.019 video of you just rambling right and but as you're 00:39:12.019 --> 00:39:15.639 rambling be sensitive to oh that bit felt quite 00:39:15.639 --> 00:39:18.460 good or oh that bit really didn't feel so good 00:39:18.460 --> 00:39:22.579 and then and that will guide you to oh maybe 00:39:22.579 --> 00:39:25.320 this is the topic topic xyz i can talk about 00:39:25.320 --> 00:39:28.400 easily but actually topic abc If I'm honest with 00:39:28.400 --> 00:39:30.460 myself, I don't really care. It's not my thing. 00:39:30.599 --> 00:39:35.179 So almost learn by doing and by feeling in a 00:39:35.179 --> 00:39:38.820 safe space before you worry about posting. And 00:39:38.820 --> 00:39:40.820 that removes some of the pressure. And by the 00:39:40.820 --> 00:39:42.699 time you get to there, you're comfortable talking 00:39:42.699 --> 00:39:44.360 to camera, really. So, yeah, we've got some good 00:39:44.360 --> 00:39:47.099 tips. Absolutely. I really like that idea. And, 00:39:47.119 --> 00:39:49.440 you know, just get it all out there and give 00:39:49.440 --> 00:39:52.059 it a go because you'll also pick up in there 00:39:52.059 --> 00:39:55.780 how you come across. And you will be coming across 00:39:55.780 --> 00:39:58.199 better in those bits where you are feeling really 00:39:58.199 --> 00:40:00.039 comfortable and really engaged with your topic. 00:40:00.099 --> 00:40:02.280 Then you will see the difference. Exactly. It's 00:40:02.280 --> 00:40:05.500 like use the tool to find your own answers rather 00:40:05.500 --> 00:40:07.420 than trying to wet them in your head. But yeah, 00:40:07.460 --> 00:40:10.380 good stuff. So it's been lovely chatting and 00:40:10.380 --> 00:40:13.699 hopefully people have got some insights and we 00:40:13.699 --> 00:40:15.500 might see, I don't know, if anyone is listening 00:40:15.500 --> 00:40:18.659 and posts their first video, please tag us in 00:40:18.659 --> 00:40:21.159 it because it's always lovely to see and hear 00:40:21.159 --> 00:40:24.440 when someone's stepped out of their comfort zone. 00:40:24.639 --> 00:40:26.239 So yeah, it'll be really good chatting. Absolutely. 00:40:26.360 --> 00:40:28.420 I mean, it's been an absolute joy talking to 00:40:28.420 --> 00:40:30.739 you today, Liu. Likewise. I can't believe where 00:40:30.739 --> 00:40:32.619 the time goes. They probably say that on every 00:40:32.619 --> 00:40:35.920 podcast ever. I really enjoyed it and thank you 00:40:35.920 --> 00:40:40.590 so much to everybody who listened. to this the 00:40:40.590 --> 00:40:43.789 journey of embracing video is unique for everyone 00:40:43.789 --> 00:40:47.090 i'm still not confident appearing on video that's 00:40:47.090 --> 00:40:51.070 why i do podcasts i have a face for radio and 00:40:51.070 --> 00:40:54.190 the voice some would argue a massive thank you 00:40:54.190 --> 00:40:56.670 to leo and sarah for sharing their personal journeys 00:40:56.670 --> 00:41:00.449 with video and offering valuable tips for overcoming 00:41:00.449 --> 00:41:03.409 common fears you'll find their details and all 00:41:03.409 --> 00:41:06.679 the links mentioned in the show notes We're back 00:41:06.679 --> 00:41:09.820 in a couple of weeks and next time it's the identity 00:41:09.820 --> 00:41:13.739 one. As always, thanks for listening and we'll 00:41:13.739 --> 00:41:14.500 see you again soon.