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Details are at podcastlearningfest .live Hello
everyone and welcome to this episode, the Appearing
on Video 1 of the Women Talking About Learning
podcast. I'm Andrew Jacobs. In today's digital
age, video has become an essential tool for communication,
whether for social media, networking or professional
presentations. Yet many people still struggle
with the idea of appearing on camera. So to talk
about this further, we have two fabulous guests.
Our first guest is Leo Batchelor. Leo is a video
and presenter. coach and former TV presenter,
videographer and TEDx producer. Her strapline
is Video Without the Cringe and she's passionate
about helping service professionals get started
with videos and to be themselves on camera. Our
second guest is Sarah Pocklington. Sarah is on
a mission to help everyone, especially women,
show up on camera without the cringe, overthinking
or the hate -how -I -look narrative. She's a
speaker, facilitator, and coach with 30 years
experience in learning and development. With
a lifelong love of performing, she blends confidence
and clarity with a no -nonsense approach to help
business owners and teams build connection and
real presence on camera. This was recorded in
December 2025, and it is a magnificent conversation.
So, settle back and enjoy. This is women talking
about learning. This is Liu and Sarah talking
about appearing on video. So Sarah, do you want
to start us off? What was your video journey?
Where did it all start? It actually started by
accident. If you'd said to me two or three years
ago I would be talking about people appearing
on video, I would have said absolutely no way.
And the first time I did, the only reason I ever
did it was because I was challenged to do it
as part of a group I was in. And there was a
reward. There was a bonus if you did a live broadcast
into the Facebook group. And I'm like, I'm going
to have that. And I'll be totally honest. There
was a bonus. I knew it was going to be a good
bonus. And it was. And I did this live. into
the facebook group and bearing in mind i spent
my entire career in learning and development
at the front of the classroom designing delivering
facilitating running workshops and suddenly i
was stood there and i'll call it the blinking
red dot mine's actually blue looking at this
dot and i went and it just felt really really
odd and i did it And I enjoyed it. And then people
started asking me, well, you were really good
at it. How did you do that? And it made me, that's
what got me thinking. And then I realized, and
then I started to notice just how many people
weren't doing it. And that's on social media,
at business, at work, all that. It's just that
people weren't doing it. And I was like, why
aren't people doing it? And I'm sure we'll come
back to that. later on but how did you get started?
you what's your where's your interest from yeah
so I was I was always petrified of public speaking
and particularly around like sharing ideas and
I remember as a teenager a friend of mine wanting
to like play radio like pretend that we were
radio hosts and it freaked me out so much so
it was always it was like the furthest thing
from my thoughts I started working at a stop
-motion animation studio as a producer so I was
making videos but of course never being on camera
and the first time Well, I did a little bit at
university, actually, because I did a lot of
sport and I did a lot of wakeboarding. And there
was like a Nike campaign about like engaging
women more in sport and activity. And so they
were talking to people about their sports. And
so I could although I was scared about kind of.
public speaking in that formal sense speaking
about a sport that I loved and was enthusiastic
and I wanted to get more women into it that actually
was all right because it wasn't okay I've got
to get this right and I've got to get it perfect
it was just hey being excited and chatting about
what you love so actually that was probably my
very first experience of of getting on video
But actually then when it came to like doing
it myself and making videos myself, it's a whole
nother world, isn't it? But I actually did a
challenge called 100 Sports in 100 Days. And
I basically, as the name said, did 100 consecutive
sports in 100 consecutive days and filmed myself.
doing those sports so it was kind of a bit of
a throwing myself in at the deep end if I commit
to doing this challenge I've got to make these
videos and again I was talking about sport so
it was easy and a lot of it wasn't me talking
it was doing activities so it's funny for me
the nerves were always about what I say but being
on camera wasn't wasn't the big deal it was like
what do you say really but that's been the area
that I found kind of most interesting is there's
the fear of of what we look like and showing
up but actually saying something without waffling
and being you know something that people care
about and get value from for me has always been
the the challenge for people um but also the
interesting bit I think where there's that that
opportunity to learn so yeah I think that's really
interesting because you'd you because you were
doing something that wasn't you directly in this
but it wasn't a hundred percent focus on you
but it was It was about you. You were in the
video. You were showing your skills. You were
trying out those different sports. And it was
something you were immersed in and felt comfortable
doing. The video became secondary. But it is
that sort of being in front of the camera, whether
you are doing it on your phone or you are maybe
talking to a remote audience. It is very like
the public speaking. side of things. It's very
much that, you know, a lot of people struggle
to stand on stage and talk to an audience. Historically,
it's been noted as one of the biggest fears that
people have. And there is a huge element of that
when we are doing video. And I think it's also
about just at this point, we're not just talking
about video creation here. We're talking about
recording ourselves on camera in some form or
being involved. So that could be a network meeting.
It could be a job interview. It could be content
that you're creating for your business, but you
are putting your face on camera and you are putting
yourself out there. And it's that combination
of the fear of public speaking. And for me, it
wasn't so much the, what am I going to say? It
was the, oh my God, that's my face. That's what
I look like. I'm putting my face on the screen.
Does anybody want to see that? Am I too old?
What are people going to think? And that judgment
piece was coming in. So you weren't just dealing
with the public speaking phase. You're dealing
with some internal stuff about your identity
and how comfortable you are being seen. And you
were comfortable being seen doing the sport.
We're not recording the... video for this conversation
today, but you and I are talking to each other
via a script. We're looking at each other on
camera. We're inside that little box. It's a
bit uncomfortable, isn't it? Yeah. And this is
what I guess, you're absolutely right. You hit
the nail on the head that video makes us more
self -conscious because we can see ourselves
and we're recorded and preserved in what we say.
But yeah, what you said about identity is spot
on. And that's what I love about video now is
that, yes, it's hard and it forces you to come
face to face with yourself and actually see yourself
back. But for me, that's where the opportunity
is, because when you see, OK, what you don't
like about yourself on screen, I often find it's
when I'm trying to be something I'm not. And
so that's how I try to approach it is if I see
something or I'm feeling about being on camera,
it's often because I have this. Yeah, I have
to be like X, Y or Z. Whereas when I get back
to, OK, I can just be myself. Suddenly what I
see, I like, but I don't like seeing like the
mask or the act or the fakeness. But we all do
it. I think we subconsciously do it, don't we?
Because there is this expectation of. Well, I
mean, certainly now video is so accessible and
cheap and it's everywhere now. But I mean, back
in the day, you know, certainly when I started,
when I started work at the animation studio,
like, yeah, it wasn't live action, but video
was expensive, so expensive. And you get one
shot at it and you can't do it on your phone.
You're like hiring a big production crew. So
there is this pressure to get it right that I
think we don't. get so much now, but we're still
in that space where it feels like we are and
there's this expectation. Whereas in reality,
you know, when you're filming anyway, you can
just delete it. If you don't like a shot you've
taken, delete it and do another one. That's absolutely,
yeah. I mean, I'm of an age where I didn't grow
up with cameras and I mean, my parents didn't
have a camera. So I don't have that. photographs
of me growing up and it's when I'm about 14,
15 and I get given my own camera and then suddenly
everything is recorded. But you had that thing
of you had your, what was it, 24 shots on the
camera. And I know I'm talking about sort of
old fashioned type photos here, but you know,
you were very careful what pictures you took.
But now with the digital age, you can do something
and you can redo it and you can redo it and you
can redo it. And sometimes the act of redoing
it is where the pressure comes from because you
are looking for the perfection. Yeah. And so
it is a lot easier from that point of view in
that we can get rid of what we don't like and
we can create something else. But actually getting
people to do it in the first place and understand
and be comfortable with, it's not about how you
look and how you sound and how you come across,
but it is. in your head about how you look and
how you sound and how you come across. And the
expectations, we were talking about this before
we started, the expectations, particularly on
women in terms of appearance and how they show
up and how they look. If you've got somebody
who is even mildly sensitive about how they look
and you then are putting them in a situation
where they're going to be on camera. So this
could be in a Zoom meeting at work. for example,
or maybe they're going to an online networking
event, there is a huge amount of pressure on
that person before they've even got started at
the what am I going to wear, what looks good.
And it goes beyond the normal rules of what am
I going to wear because you can wear things in
person that you maybe are not quite so ideal
on camera or you think you can't wear certain
things on camera because somebody said, oh, you've
always got to wear block colours. And it's about
having that confidence. in yourself like you
say to show up as yourself that you don't have
to have your makeup done you don't have to have
your hair done but people feel that they do yeah
and then again it's that pressure before we've
even got the conversation started and people
are bringing all of that into the content yeah
definitely I almost the temptation has in the
past been certainly for me to want to put makeup
on or whatever but I actually actively don't
now majority of the time because it's not how
I show up in person like I'm lazy I'm too lazy
to do my makeup and you know having a sporty
background having makeup and then going for swim
or whatever isn't isn't necessarily conducive
but I guess for me it's very much I think the
temptation as we've said on camera is to right
I've got to put on this performance or this show
but actually for me it's like how can I be as
congruent when I'm on camera as I am in real
life yeah and so it's If I look all kind of dolled
up and perfect on camera and then in real life
I turn up all scruffy and no makeup, hair all
a bit crazy and wild. then then that's not for
people who meet me they're going to go oh something
doesn't fit and doesn't like it's not aligned
right so I actively don't but then saying that
I make sure I've got a good light right so it's
still being aware of of how you look but trying
to do it in a I don't know for me personally
it's in a non -dressy way and more of a maybe
kind of I guess using natural assets and just
being conscious of how things like lighting and
sound and all that kind of thing does impact
how well people can consume. and engage with
what you're saying. So it's an interesting balance.
And that's so interesting. Yeah, that's so interesting
because that's something that I talk about a
lot, both with organizations when we're talking
about how they can get people to engage in their
Zoom meetings, but also with business owners
who want to do more social media type content.
They want to get more visible. And it is about
understanding the basics. Most of us don't know.
Most of us have never had any training in how
to use an online platform. We've never actually
been on a course on how to use our phone and
make a video on our phone. Let's face it. And
there are people who cottoned on to that. and
said right people don't know how to do this so
I'm going to make my business showing people
how to make videos for social media like Instagram
or TikTok and they'll give you the tips and that's
where most people have had their learning from
and things like whilst I mean I don't always
wear makeup I do sometimes it for me it depends
on the type of meeting that it is it depends
on who I'm talking to it depends on how I'm feeling
it really depends on you know what would I do
if I was going in person that's my rule of thumb
if I would get dressed up to go and meet this
person whether it's a friend or a business meeting
I will get dressed up or not depend you know
it really depends on who it is rather than letting
that sort of oh my god I've got to get dressed
up this is for business I must look a particular
way yeah get on top of me but yeah if if you
show up as you if you are comfortable in what
you're wearing if you are comfortable with how
you are in that moment knowing how to use what
you've either got in your hand or on your desk
is key and things lighting i'm so pleased you
mentioned that it fixes so many things if you've
got good lighting and it and it's lighting that's
in front of you not behind you i mean we've all
seen those people that you know that sun halo
silhouette yeah i can't see your eyes yeah and
of course eye contact is a thing and if the lighting
is bad and i can't see your eyes we're never
going to connect um whether you are out on your
dog walk chatting to your phone on about today's
top tip on wellness or you are running a zoom
meeting for your team i can't see your eyes if
i can't see your face clearly the connection's
not going to build so lighting and the classic
for me is i as you can see the the listeners
can't but i wear glasses so i have to think really
carefully about where my lights are positioned
because otherwise i use a ring light i i'm in
danger of having ufos on my if i'm by a window
i get reflection on my glasses and and you can't
see we get so much information from people's
eyes yeah so we need to be able to see them so
so the lighting if you tweak nothing else if
i had to pick one thing that people could do
better it would be around sorting out your lighting
yeah Because it can be quite a relatively simple
thing that can make that big difference, isn't
it? But then I will also say, I guess sometimes
people then go the other way. They get so obsessed
with the technical side that, well, two things.
One, it becomes like an easy way to procrastinate
and perfectionism because it's like, I've got
to have all this kit. And I was working with
a kind of a friend and colleague of mine who
had bought all the kit and wanted to start doing
video. And he kept kind of going back to talking
about kit. We talked around in circles and I
was like, you know what, this is becoming a way
of you procrastinating versus, like you said,
what is good enough? What can you do simply and
easily rather than allowing that to... kind of
come in and and and take over and and i think
particularly you know stuff we see online and
you know i see a lot of it because it's in my
industry of like the very technical kind of people
who are coming at video from a technical point
of view like this is how you make a perfect video
and you should do this and you shouldn't do that
and all these rights and wrongs which are are
correct but they're often the advanced level
of video and things like that and getting on
camera versus right you know what lean startup
approach what's the minimum easiest thing you
can do to get on camera but lots of people like
focusing on it because it's a good way of procrastinating
it when actually going back to what we were saying
before what's stopping them is that it feels
a bit cringe and it doesn't feel like me and
all this kind of thing so yeah yeah it's really
really interesting that you've said that because
that's exactly what I find when I'm working with
people I ran a program last year which was basically
about building people's confidence to go live
in an in a live interview which would be live
streamed onto a social media platform and I always
started with the equipment and the technology
so how to get their lighting right think about
their background camera position that sort of
thing because that was the thing that people
were giving as the reason they didn't want to
do it yeah that was the number one reason people
didn't want to do it and then it would become
when I get a better microphone when I get my
new light oh I'm getting a new camera and it's
like well you've got your camera you've got your
microphone you've got your light now why aren't
you doing it what's the real reason so i think
the technology and the equipment is often used
as an excuse but you have everything you need
in your hand in your pocket so we know our phones
are so sophisticated now and we can do really
clever things with them and know just knowing
those basics about getting started and and you
know so good lighting looking at the camera that
type of stuff and then just talk yeah maybe start
with something like you did which was the doing
the sports stuff Because that was a nice bridge
into it. The easiest way, absolutely, of getting
on video, like you said, of stuff you can talk
about and you're excited to talk about. It seems
silly sometimes to say, but most people aren't
excited by what they're trying to talk about.
Yes, they might be committed or passionate about
it, but maybe they're trying to say it in a way
that's a bit flat or dry or very corporate or
very stiff rather than, what do you generally
like? energize to talk about and then that comes
across on camera and yeah you might not be perfect
and precise and concise and all this kind of
thing but you're that doesn't matter and and
that for me personally was the big shift in being
able to get on camera myself was when I went
you know what in my head growing up I was always
like oh my god I'm too much I'm scatty I'm you
know I got too much energy and like too much
excitement and I was always trying to like I
don't know, dull it down and be normal. Whereas
when I went, you know what? I do get carried
away and I do get overexcited, but actually for
the right people, that's quite infectious. And
it gives them permission to love what they do
rather than this thing of trying to be, yeah,
perfect. You can't, I don't know, maybe can you
be perfect and passionate at the same time? I
don't know. What are your thoughts? I think you
can be perfectly passionate, but I don't think
you'd be perfect. Passionate and passionate.
It's that expectation that people have built
around this. They see somebody else doing it
that has really high production values. And I
think there is a difference. It's not scientific,
but I tend to find that men generally are more
willing to just give it a go. But they're also
more likely to go and buy the expensive kit.
Whereas a lot of the women that I talk to, it's
like, how do I get started? How do I get over
this? Oh my God, I look terrible. And they talk
themselves out of it. So they're willing, they
want to give it a go, but they talk themselves
out of it. And it's when you show up as yourself
in person, people are drawn to you. The people
that like you and feel your energy and get what
you're about are drawn to you and they will come
towards you in the room at that networking event.
You will find yourself in conversations with
them. And people think that that doesn't happen
when we're on camera, when we're doing virtual
conversations and recording meetings. Well, recording
videos is a one way thing, but people will engage
with watching that video and then come back to
you. But if you can bring your energy and that's...
a lot of what i do with people is focus on who
is it that turns up in person and how do we get
that person to turn up on the camera definitely
and there is a there is a bit you said about
being scatty and and a bit too much but actually
that works on camera because you do need to generate
more energy when you're on the camera because
there is a loss as the message is transmitted.
I can't be more scientific than that, but it's
the idea that energy does dissipate as it goes
through the lens. So show up as yourself. I'm
quite bubbly. I'm quite animated. I use my hands
a lot when I'm delivering talks. I tend to move
around a lot. So I've created a setup for me
at home that allows me to do that. So I'm standing
up as I'm talking to you now. A lot of people
get locked into that. I'm at my desk. I need
to sit down. record this yes yeah and and that's
very much yeah come I guess coming at things
from a production background as well that's something
I've very much seen is we because a lot traditionally
people who would make videos would be a video
professional right and they have their production
process of how it's how they're taught what the
the traditional values of how you make videos,
but also what makes it easy for them to edit
and produce, right? And then the person on camera
gets kind of slotted into that process, but often
they're not necessarily, they don't necessarily
fit into that mold that the person's made, which
is often, right, set up a camera on a tripod,
nice and static. The person sits there with perfect
lighting, big camera, all this kind of stuff
around them. And that inherently feels unnatural
for most people, for sure. Yes. Whereas something
I'm trying to do a lot more of. and it is almost
think about the person first. Like, yeah, how
does the person naturally communicate? And like
you said, if like you and like me too, I use
my hands a lot. I like moving around. Like I
always have lots of energy. So sitting still
and rigid doesn't work. So it's going right.
How can I create a filming process that enables
me to be big in my gestures and things like that,
which is often not a static camera in a rigid.
of position with me sitting at the desk. It's
a walk and talk, for example. So yeah, I find
it really fascinating that how we balance this.
both the, I guess, the public speaking, the communication
side, combined with the video production, the
technical side, and how they are interlinked.
But we often go technical first, and then us
afterwards, rather than let's bring that up first
and design around it, which I don't hear or see
many people doing. But I think there's a big
opportunity in it. And I think there's people
as well that will say, well, what I do doesn't
work on video. I'm about meditation and calmness
and stuff like that. So, you know, I do want
to be sitting down. I do want to have that studio
effect. And I think what you've just said there,
you know, when you work with somebody like yourself,
you can get them to help you to create that in
a way that maybe you can't create on your own
at home because you can give them a bigger space,
for example. can help them with the lighting
and and help them to create the the ambience
that they would have as part of it well it's
all right for you because you're doing training
and they'll say video isn't for me because but
i think if they actually talk to somebody there
are lots of different ways of using video and
sometimes having the professional is absolutely
what you want Yeah, you're right. And because
we default too much to or certainly in the space
that I work with, people often go, well, I have
to do knowledge sharing videos and I have to
be the expert and give my top tips on how you
do X, Y and Z. And if you're a coach or a facilitator,
for example, you don't your approach of how you
support people day to day is not to tell them
what to do. Often it's to create the space for
them to find their own answers. It's to ask questions.
It's to be curious. And this goes. counter to
I'm the expert on this and this is what you should
do rather than exactly as you said okay how can
you be that inquisitive curious person asking
questions on video okay in theory you'd go well
you've got no one speaking back so you can't
but there absolutely are ways you know for example
you ask that question and then you share examples
like like most people would in a in a session
right you'd you'd ask the question and then maybe
you'd go well I'll say I'll give you an example
and then we'll go around the room and everyone
else can share but there's always that setting
the scene at the beginning, isn't there? Absolutely.
And I think there's also some very common mistakes
that people make. And I know the one that I see
most often, and it's not so much a mistake as
a technique that people can develop. And that's
the whole looking at the camera. thing because
a lot of people make and we do it because we're
programmed to look at faces so because we want
to feel like we're talking to somebody we tend
to talk talk to the screen more than we talk
to our cameras yeah and getting into the habit
of talking to your camera rather than looking
at the person or when you're recording on your
phone looking at the camera on your phone rather
than at your face on the screen will make a massive
difference and it will change how people view
that video because they'll think they're being
looked at. What would you, what do you see as
the most common mistake or a technique that people
could start to adopt and practice that could
really shift their... Yeah, I think we've kind
of touched on it already. But for me, the biggest
mistake is when people have this rigid format
that they feel they have to fit into rather than
finding their way. And that's often when the
cringe comes in. So, I mean, often I always start
with when it comes to talking to camera. It's
like, right, go for a walk. Go and do a walk
and talk style as a just give it a go. And for
some people, it doesn't work for everyone. But
that's probably the biggest where people often
get the biggest breakthrough is, oh, I can do
it when I walk. And when I'm, you know, because
then they don't have to look at the camera all
the time. They don't have to stare down the lens.
They can look around. They're looking off screen
and it's far more natural. So I think that's
like I said, it doesn't work for everyone. But
for some, it's like, oh my God, why didn't I
just think of this? It feels so obvious once
you've done it, really. So that's probably like
the biggest thing. We talked about, yeah, getting
too obsessed with the technical side. I think
also, and I guess another thing, and I'm going
to probably upset some marketing people saying
this, but often people think about their audience
too much. And that's not to say don't, but when
you're getting started, often there's so much
emphasis on, well, how do I add value and what
will they like to hear and all this kind of thing
that we get so, it's almost like we're so obsessed
with kind of pleasing everybody else that we
lose our center. we lose ourself and we're like,
okay, what do I want to say? And therefore, that's
often why people will come across quite flat
because they're trying to give to others without
having any energy or belief or passion themselves
to give with. So again, yeah, it's counterintuitive,
but I often say, you know what? Be selfish. In
your early videos, be super selfish. Film what
you want to talk about, what lights you up. Have
some fun with it and don't worry too much about
the audience. Further down the line, yes, you
can start tweaking and going, what actually will
people get value from? But at the beginning,
don't worry. That's how we all start off in life.
As kids, we play with the toys and watch the
movie that interest us. And then that shapes
us and that often leads into, OK, well, what,
you know, at school you can kind of go out, well,
what degree should I do or what A -level should
I do? But actually, you've kind of got to enjoy
it because if you don't enjoy it, you're not
going to last very long. Yeah, you might have
an amazing and you might really hit the nail
on the head for a lot of people. But if you can't
be consistent with it, then it's not going to
have the long term benefit, really, I guess.
that people are looking to get from from video
and communication in general and I think it's
about remembering why you're making the videos
because videos give us an opportunity to introduce
ourselves to people to be in a room with people
when we can't physically be in a room and so
if so there is a pressure to do it because otherwise
we feel that we're missing out on an opportunity
but the person who shows up needs to be the person
who would show up in person I was saying before
so so I love that tip about start with something
that really that is easy for you to do even if
it's just in introducing yourself and the words
that i just used there even if it's just that
that doesn't sound that sounds like i'm diminishing
it but it's such an important place to start
if you come on and you introduce yourself with
that energy with with your hair all windswept
because you've been out in the rain walking your
dog. People who've been out this morning in the
rain walking their dog will immediately be drawn
to you. It's like, here is somebody that lives
in my kind of world. So it's a great way for
you to show who you really are. And you're allowed
to be who you really are because that's who people
are going to engage with. Yeah. And what you
said there kind of really hits the nail on the
head that a lot of the time, all of this stuff
we're talking about with video is permission,
like permission. to be yourself, permission to
be windswept, all those kind of things. And I
think there's an opportunity where maybe in the
past that there wasn't the permission. Whereas
now with videos becoming more, you know, especially
AI videos becoming perfect and polished and all
this kind of stuff. Whereas actually the stuff
that does well is the authentic, the messy, the
rough, because then people know that it's real.
Right. And you're saying about being windswept.
I did one, yeah, a few weeks back and it was
kind of all over the place because, and I purposely
did it in the wind and I knew the audio would
be terrible because with all the wind, but actually
it was great because it was a bit crazy and a
bit exciting and different. And, you know, we
talk about visual hooks, but actually, yeah,
you get that when you're not perfect in those
spaces, really. And at the end of the day, video
is a tool. It is a tool. But I think it's a tool
that does come with a little bit of baggage.
And really, I think you and I are here to sort
of reduce the baggage that comes with it, particularly.
for women because most of the people I talk to
about this are women. Most of them say, I do
feel pressure to be on camera. I don't know what
to say. I'm worried about being laughed at. I'm
worried about looking stupid. So they start their
videos with, oh, sorry, I look such a mess or
sorry, I didn't have time to put my makeup stuff
on. And it's like, no. You don't need to do that.
You might feel like you want to do that. But
honestly, until you point it out to somebody,
nobody's even noticed. And if they have noticed,
they go, oh, great, a real human being. Somebody
I can relate to and identify with. But it does
come with pressure. So trying to reduce that
baggage, reduce that pressure. I think that's
what we're both all about. Yeah, definitely.
But some of it, I think, you know, where maybe,
not always, but maybe kind of women are kind
of maybe more sensitive to it, I guess, is I
think, you know, is maybe being more receptive
to how we are going to be received and how kind
of that expectation of wanting to make sure we're
doing a good job and not boring people and are
concise and also. you know, maybe sensitive to
how people will respond and how our message is
going to land. Whereas if we, so it becomes tricky
to, there's more going on in your head to, okay,
how will this land? Will they agree? Will they
get it? Am I going to be too bossy if I'm giving
top tips? Is it, you know? It's that perception
to it, which means there's a million one. OK,
I've got to do this, this, this and this rather
than just screw it. I'm going to be myself and
like it. And so I don't think it exclusively
applies to video. It just obviously shows up
in video because we see and hear ourselves. And
because it's there's that permanence to it when
it's recorded and captured and then maybe shared
beyond that. And so it's that element of judgment,
which, again, is something that often women face
in the workplace, in business generally. more
than men not exclusively but generally more than
men but I think all of this really I guess like
we said at the beginning there's this big pressure
and we see people online doing all this stuff
but it really is about starting small And in
some ways that, yes, the algorithm and kind of
LinkedIn getting harder and all this kind of
stuff is quite tricky. And it's often a reason
for people to kind of not do it or to worry about
doing it because they've got to get it right.
But I actually think in some ways when you're
starting out, it's a good thing because you can
go, you know what? And I'll often say to people,
OK, let's do some videos. But you know what?
And if they're worried about that judgment, I
go, in all honesty, probably not many people
are going to see it. Right. When you first start
making videos in the nicest. way they're going
to be a bit rubbish right it's like when you
first play tennis for the first time you are
going to be rubbish it would be terribly arrogant
to assume you're not going to be right so it's
like you've got because you've not refined your
message you've not refined your style you're
not refined your presenting you're going to get
a few your you know your supporters your fans
your friends giving you a like and that kind
of stuff but it's mostly going to get ignored
by the algorithm because you've not finessed
And it's only by doing, and I very much love
the idea of like the lean startup approach in
the context of communication and video and building
your style on social media. Over time, you will,
as you get better, more people will engage. And
then, and by which time you won't be so nervous,
you won't be. you'll be more on it and you'll
have nailed what works and what doesn't for other
people but you only find that by starting and
too many people are like they're all in their
head and they're like I have to work out my message
I have to work out my style I have to look perfect
and all of this stuff not only stops them but
also you can't work it out right you can only
work it out in reality and this is what I find
so interesting about video is it's like a dance.
Like we all get obsessed with, right, how do
I be the perfect tango dancer, right? And I'm
kind of getting my steps and all this kind of
stuff. But a tango is danced with two people,
right? And so there is that interplay. And yes,
you learn your steps first, but then you've got
to get out in the real world and dance with your
audience and step on each other's toes and get
it wrong. And then you'll start to flow together.
So for me, it massively is about. starting small,
having a go. I mean, a specific tip around this,
I've had a couple of clients who have said, you
know, that they're wanting to put stuff on LinkedIn,
but they've started by putting stuff on TikTok
because they don't really care about TikTok.
And they're like, oh, it's so flippant and all
this kind of stuff. They put it out there to
kind of almost like their training wheels and
their practice ground and their sandbox where
they can try things out before they then move
over to something more scary in inverted commas.
like LinkedIn and professional networks. That's
really interesting because I've had people who've
come from LinkedIn and gone across to TikTok
and it's taken off on TikTok because it allowed
them to bring out their personality and to have
their style. And I think from a getting started
point of view, people often say to me, it's like,
well, I need to learn it. I need to rehearse
it. It needs, you know, we're back to that perfection
thing. And what I tend to do with mine is I'll
work out what I want to say. I'll say it out
loud a couple of times before I record it. And
then I'll record it. And then I post it. So I
always have this thing that people get very hung
up on the live element of it. It's like, I need
to do one while I'm out walking the dog today.
And they'll start by trying to do it live onto
whatever platform. And it's just disastrous.
It's just stressful and anxiety and it doesn't
work and all that. So what I do is I do a couple
of run -throughs for myself and then I press
record, record it. And when I'm happy with the
recording, that's when I post it to social media.
So it's live. And it was done in one take, but
it's not live in the, oh my goodness, I'm committed
and I've forgotten what I was going to say and
what's everyone going to think kind of way. So
you don't, it is that answer. You don't actually
have to be, it's live, but you don't have to
be live into the platform. Yes. Yeah. as live.
And then you've got, and you don't have to worry
about technical things and all that kind of stuff
as well. So yeah, absolutely. No, really good.
So I think we're coming up to time. We're giving,
given the checkered flag, like final lap. What,
what would you say, I guess, kind of top takeaways,
I don't know, one takeaway, three takeaways,
whatever works for you, that people, for people
getting started with video. Is to give it a go,
find one thing that you think you can, that you
can talk about with your passion your energy
your personality because it's your personality
that's going to make this video work definitely
definitely I think my tip would be to to pick
up your phone with no intention of posting and
just talk to it and let all of the gobbledygook
as it feels in our head all of it's get it all
out right yeah I see a bit like you know in your
head and all the thoughts of what you should
and shouldn't do is a little bit like that that
drawer full of all the crap that you you're like
you know you should clear out it's like a drawer
that's got everything exactly so my my starting
point for people is is hit record do a 10 minute
video of you just rambling right and but as you're
rambling be sensitive to oh that bit felt quite
good or oh that bit really didn't feel so good
and then and that will guide you to oh maybe
this is the topic topic xyz i can talk about
easily but actually topic abc If I'm honest with
myself, I don't really care. It's not my thing.
So almost learn by doing and by feeling in a
safe space before you worry about posting. And
that removes some of the pressure. And by the
time you get to there, you're comfortable talking
to camera, really. So, yeah, we've got some good
tips. Absolutely. I really like that idea. And,
you know, just get it all out there and give
it a go because you'll also pick up in there
how you come across. And you will be coming across
better in those bits where you are feeling really
comfortable and really engaged with your topic.
Then you will see the difference. Exactly. It's
like use the tool to find your own answers rather
than trying to wet them in your head. But yeah,
good stuff. So it's been lovely chatting and
hopefully people have got some insights and we
might see, I don't know, if anyone is listening
and posts their first video, please tag us in
it because it's always lovely to see and hear
when someone's stepped out of their comfort zone.
So yeah, it'll be really good chatting. Absolutely.
I mean, it's been an absolute joy talking to
you today, Liu. Likewise. I can't believe where
the time goes. They probably say that on every
podcast ever. I really enjoyed it and thank you
so much to everybody who listened. to this the
journey of embracing video is unique for everyone
i'm still not confident appearing on video that's
why i do podcasts i have a face for radio and
the voice some would argue a massive thank you
to leo and sarah for sharing their personal journeys
with video and offering valuable tips for overcoming
common fears you'll find their details and all
the links mentioned in the show notes We're back
in a couple of weeks and next time it's the identity
one. As always, thanks for listening and we'll
see you again soon.