WEBVTT 00:00:01.360 --> 00:00:05.240 A quick note before we start. On February 26th, 00:00:05.240 --> 00:00:08.199 2026, we're bringing together podcasters and 00:00:08.199 --> 00:00:10.380 learning professionals at St Mary's Sumner House 00:00:10.380 --> 00:00:12.560 in London for the Podcast Learning Festival. 00:00:13.339 --> 00:00:16.059 It's a chance to explore how audio storytelling 00:00:16.059 --> 00:00:19.039 is changing the way organisations learn, share 00:00:19.039 --> 00:00:22.780 knowledge and build capability. Early bird tickets 00:00:22.780 --> 00:00:26.339 are on sale at podcastlearningfest .live. The 00:00:26.339 --> 00:00:29.100 link is in the show notes. Right, let's get into 00:00:29.100 --> 00:00:44.000 it. Hello everyone and welcome to this episode, 00:00:44.240 --> 00:00:46.500 the Women Networks one of the Women Talking About 00:00:46.500 --> 00:00:49.579 Learning podcast. I'm Andrew Jacobs. When our 00:00:49.579 --> 00:00:52.200 audience suggested this topic, we knew immediately 00:00:52.200 --> 00:00:55.079 who we needed to ask to be on it. For an episode 00:00:55.079 --> 00:00:57.259 which explores people's apprehension of networking, 00:00:57.640 --> 00:00:59.619 setting up their own networks and finding the 00:00:59.619 --> 00:01:02.020 right tribe, we needed some excellent guests. 00:01:02.320 --> 00:01:05.060 And we have them. Our first guest is Sharon Green. 00:01:05.480 --> 00:01:08.099 Sharon is a professional interim, qualified coach 00:01:08.099 --> 00:01:11.730 and consultant at Kiara Consultancy. She runs 00:01:11.730 --> 00:01:13.950 projects that focus on people change, people 00:01:13.950 --> 00:01:17.670 technology and people experience. Sharon's main 00:01:17.670 --> 00:01:20.609 Pay It Forward passion project is running the 00:01:20.609 --> 00:01:23.790 HR Interim Networking Group, a global LinkedIn 00:01:23.790 --> 00:01:26.489 community providing peer -to -peer support for 00:01:26.489 --> 00:01:29.450 people professionals working as interims, coaches, 00:01:29.810 --> 00:01:32.750 consultants, contractors, solo entrepreneurs 00:01:32.750 --> 00:01:36.549 and freelancers. Our next guest is Helen Marshall. 00:01:37.290 --> 00:01:40.349 Helen is Head of Learning at Thrive and it is 00:01:40.349 --> 00:01:43.790 multifaceted. She leads the team of content designers 00:01:43.790 --> 00:01:46.250 and oversees the content they create as they 00:01:46.250 --> 00:01:48.090 strive to be responsive to the needs of their 00:01:48.090 --> 00:01:51.609 clients. Helen also works very closely with their 00:01:51.609 --> 00:01:54.390 content club and platform customers to figure 00:01:54.390 --> 00:01:57.590 out exactly how the content, campaigns and pathways 00:01:57.590 --> 00:02:00.030 can be used in the flow of customers' work to 00:02:00.030 --> 00:02:03.549 support their people. Helen created WomenIn, 00:02:03.769 --> 00:02:08.000 a WhatsApp community for women in L &D, HR, and 00:02:08.000 --> 00:02:11.400 people teams. Our third guest is Rhonda Martin. 00:02:11.939 --> 00:02:14.099 Rhonda's work sits across talent development, 00:02:14.400 --> 00:02:16.400 mentoring, coaching, and inclusive leadership. 00:02:16.719 --> 00:02:19.139 She leads on client relationships and stakeholder 00:02:19.139 --> 00:02:21.419 management, and she uses that commercial grounding 00:02:21.419 --> 00:02:23.599 to design and run mentoring, coaching, and senior 00:02:23.599 --> 00:02:26.080 leadership programs that actually work inside 00:02:26.080 --> 00:02:29.560 organizations, not just on paper. Alongside her 00:02:29.560 --> 00:02:31.919 consultancy work, Rhonda serves on the board 00:02:31.919 --> 00:02:34.360 of City Women Network as chair for corporate 00:02:34.360 --> 00:02:37.520 relationships. Before that, she chaired the mentoring 00:02:37.520 --> 00:02:40.180 programme for women in telecommunications, building 00:02:40.180 --> 00:02:42.979 a cross -industry network for the telecoms, media 00:02:42.979 --> 00:02:47.319 and technology sectors. Recorded in early November 00:02:47.319 --> 00:02:50.639 of 2025, this is Women Talking About Learning. 00:02:50.740 --> 00:02:54.900 This is Sharon, Helen and Rhonda talking about 00:02:54.900 --> 00:03:01.039 women networks. Wow, lovely to see you, Rhonda 00:03:01.039 --> 00:03:03.620 and Helen. I'm so excited for this conversation. 00:03:03.659 --> 00:03:07.069 How are you doing today? Oh, I'm really well. 00:03:07.169 --> 00:03:09.349 Thank you. I'm really happy to be here. My first 00:03:09.349 --> 00:03:11.310 one with yourself. So really good. Thank you. 00:03:11.710 --> 00:03:14.150 Yeah, also really good. And Rhonda, Sharon, lovely 00:03:14.150 --> 00:03:16.729 to see you both or meet you both. Obviously, 00:03:16.810 --> 00:03:19.669 Sharon, you and I have met online virtually previously, 00:03:19.930 --> 00:03:22.030 but Rhonda, you and I have only met for the first 00:03:22.030 --> 00:03:26.490 time today. So very excited to get into networking 00:03:26.490 --> 00:03:28.990 and what it means and what it means to us. And 00:03:28.990 --> 00:03:31.849 yeah, I suppose that's a great place to start. 00:03:32.219 --> 00:03:34.580 isn't it? What does it mean? Why did we want 00:03:34.580 --> 00:03:38.120 to come and talk about it today? And maybe we 00:03:38.120 --> 00:03:40.219 have different perceptions or very similar perceptions 00:03:40.219 --> 00:03:43.819 of networking. Yeah, it can mean different things 00:03:43.819 --> 00:03:47.139 to different people, can't it? So should we think 00:03:47.139 --> 00:03:48.900 about answering that question then, what it means 00:03:48.900 --> 00:03:51.620 to us? Yeah, I think that would be a great place 00:03:51.620 --> 00:03:55.080 to start. Rhonda, what's your feeling about the 00:03:55.080 --> 00:03:59.960 word network or networking? I love the word networking. 00:04:00.479 --> 00:04:03.620 And I think it means different things to meet 00:04:03.620 --> 00:04:07.580 different people. But I see a network and networking 00:04:07.580 --> 00:04:12.439 as just an extension of my life. So I look at 00:04:12.439 --> 00:04:16.120 them broadly into sort of two areas. The way 00:04:16.120 --> 00:04:18.740 I think about being in a network and wanting 00:04:18.740 --> 00:04:20.939 to join a network in my personal life. And then 00:04:20.939 --> 00:04:22.899 I look at networks from a business perspective. 00:04:23.800 --> 00:04:27.889 And in my role, in my day job. working for the 00:04:27.889 --> 00:04:30.410 pipeline. We do a lot of work developing women's 00:04:30.410 --> 00:04:33.389 careers and jobs, etc. But I know, and through 00:04:33.389 --> 00:04:36.629 my pro bono work as well, that being part of 00:04:36.629 --> 00:04:39.069 a community and a forum for all the people and 00:04:39.069 --> 00:04:41.850 myself is where people get a lot of support. 00:04:42.410 --> 00:04:45.610 So I'm going to pause there. So I see the world 00:04:45.610 --> 00:04:50.379 and word of networks as something... that looks 00:04:50.379 --> 00:04:52.199 very different for lots of different people. 00:04:52.319 --> 00:04:56.279 So businesses have ERGs, people have volunteer 00:04:56.279 --> 00:04:59.860 groups. So I think it's worth sort of unpicking 00:04:59.860 --> 00:05:02.259 a little bit about what a network means to different 00:05:02.259 --> 00:05:04.379 people at different times for different reasons. 00:05:05.220 --> 00:05:08.220 So that's my sort of opening reflection. And 00:05:08.220 --> 00:05:10.779 Helen, what does it mean for you and kind of 00:05:10.779 --> 00:05:13.399 why coming to this conversation? I'm curious. 00:05:13.779 --> 00:05:16.019 Yeah, and I think Rhonda, you're exactly right. 00:05:16.079 --> 00:05:19.079 That kind of... There's a lot of different nuances, 00:05:19.120 --> 00:05:22.519 I think, when it comes to what a network is or 00:05:22.519 --> 00:05:25.860 then people's perception of what that is and 00:05:25.860 --> 00:05:30.560 also the impact that they can have. So my perspective 00:05:30.560 --> 00:05:37.339 on this is I see real value in the types of conversations 00:05:37.339 --> 00:05:39.560 that you have with people and have done throughout 00:05:39.560 --> 00:05:43.120 my career. It's the foundation of any... good 00:05:43.120 --> 00:05:45.740 L &D professional I think is the ability to make 00:05:45.740 --> 00:05:49.980 strong relationships with people and so in my 00:05:49.980 --> 00:05:52.420 work when I've been doing that I've been thinking 00:05:52.420 --> 00:05:54.980 well actually it's not only useful from a that 00:05:54.980 --> 00:05:57.259 personal professional perspective within the 00:05:57.259 --> 00:06:00.480 I suppose confines of an organization but as 00:06:00.480 --> 00:06:04.750 you start to step outside of of that bubble the 00:06:04.750 --> 00:06:07.689 the value starts to amplify in terms of how you're 00:06:07.689 --> 00:06:10.290 networking who you're networking with the conversations 00:06:10.290 --> 00:06:12.509 you have the perspectives you can bring into 00:06:12.509 --> 00:06:15.110 your own work or then even your own business 00:06:15.110 --> 00:06:18.129 as well so it's that kind of amplification of 00:06:18.129 --> 00:06:22.110 knowledge and information um that can serve you 00:06:22.110 --> 00:06:23.970 as an individual in terms of your career but 00:06:23.970 --> 00:06:25.810 then also the perspectives that you can bring 00:06:25.810 --> 00:06:30.029 to those people um and I suppose my my real interest 00:06:30.029 --> 00:06:34.730 in this particular topic was because I'm founder 00:06:34.730 --> 00:06:37.089 of a particular network for women called Women 00:06:37.089 --> 00:06:40.850 In which is for women in L &D, HR and associated 00:06:40.850 --> 00:06:44.050 people spaces or anything associated with women 00:06:44.050 --> 00:06:48.709 in that space and so it's really important for 00:06:48.709 --> 00:06:53.370 me to recognise that actually this kind of opportunity 00:06:53.370 --> 00:06:56.370 for people to connect and to share ideas, to 00:06:56.370 --> 00:06:59.120 learn from each other, to grow together. is it 00:06:59.120 --> 00:07:01.000 was really needed when i set it up and it's clearly 00:07:01.000 --> 00:07:03.459 still needed now because we've escalated to over 00:07:03.459 --> 00:07:05.620 a thousand members and it's continuing to grow 00:07:05.620 --> 00:07:08.720 so there's a need there and so for me it's yes 00:07:08.720 --> 00:07:11.720 that personal professional angle but it's also 00:07:11.720 --> 00:07:16.000 the how can we contribute more to um lifting 00:07:16.000 --> 00:07:18.899 each other up to creating space for people and 00:07:18.899 --> 00:07:21.139 for sharing knowledge and for that diversity 00:07:21.139 --> 00:07:22.920 of thought that all of that brings there's probably 00:07:22.920 --> 00:07:24.420 even more that I could say but I'll stop there 00:07:24.420 --> 00:07:25.879 because I'm conscious I've been talking a while 00:07:25.879 --> 00:07:28.139 and Sharon I'd love to hear your thoughts on 00:07:28.139 --> 00:07:30.839 this as well well I mean so much of what you 00:07:30.839 --> 00:07:33.699 kind of both said kind of resonated really what 00:07:33.699 --> 00:07:36.860 a surprise that's why I'm here I think I think 00:07:36.860 --> 00:07:40.660 I probably had in maybe way back I probably had 00:07:40.660 --> 00:07:43.779 quite like a negative perception of networking 00:07:43.779 --> 00:07:47.649 I think And I think I probably felt that it was 00:07:47.649 --> 00:07:50.389 a certain type of thing and that I felt quite 00:07:50.389 --> 00:07:53.850 nervous about the thought of networking, if I'm 00:07:53.850 --> 00:07:55.829 honest. And I know that a lot of people who come 00:07:55.829 --> 00:07:59.110 to my network feel similarly. And so I think 00:07:59.110 --> 00:08:01.490 there is a little bit of a thing about the word 00:08:01.490 --> 00:08:04.050 and the connotations. But I think over time and 00:08:04.050 --> 00:08:06.230 over the course of my career, permanent being 00:08:06.230 --> 00:08:08.509 in a permanent world, but also being independent, 00:08:08.810 --> 00:08:11.050 I think I've come to kind of reframe it. And 00:08:11.050 --> 00:08:13.610 for me, it's kind of like when I break it down 00:08:13.610 --> 00:08:16.459 as. like making connections one conversation 00:08:16.459 --> 00:08:19.480 at a time, that feels slightly more manageable, 00:08:19.620 --> 00:08:22.600 a little less scary. I don't really feel that 00:08:22.600 --> 00:08:24.720 kind of dread like, you know, how you imagine 00:08:24.720 --> 00:08:26.779 going into a room full of people you don't know 00:08:26.779 --> 00:08:28.680 and that you're somehow meant to work the room. 00:08:28.939 --> 00:08:31.399 And there's these things that I think that can 00:08:31.399 --> 00:08:34.100 become attached to the words that I don't necessarily 00:08:34.100 --> 00:08:37.899 feel are helpful and facilitative. So for me, 00:08:37.919 --> 00:08:41.940 I'd probably say that calling it my community 00:08:41.940 --> 00:08:45.440 that I run. I've always been networked. I've 00:08:45.440 --> 00:08:47.379 always liked meeting people, a bit like you were 00:08:47.379 --> 00:08:49.220 saying, both Helen and Rhonda. For me, it's about 00:08:49.220 --> 00:08:51.659 an extension. I don't really see barriers between 00:08:51.659 --> 00:08:54.179 community and work. I just feel like it's always 00:08:54.179 --> 00:08:57.620 on. I had an interesting chat in the coffee shop 00:08:57.620 --> 00:09:00.600 yesterday with somebody, and we then connected 00:09:00.600 --> 00:09:02.980 on LinkedIn, which is completely random. For 00:09:02.980 --> 00:09:06.039 me, it's kind of a bit like just meeting people, 00:09:06.139 --> 00:09:09.600 basically. And I run a network, and I've got 00:09:09.600 --> 00:09:13.840 the words... network is called the HR intro networking 00:09:13.840 --> 00:09:15.779 community it's for people who are independent 00:09:15.779 --> 00:09:18.759 in a people space basically whatever they're 00:09:18.759 --> 00:09:22.120 doing coaching contracting freelancing solo entrepreneur 00:09:22.120 --> 00:09:25.120 whatever but for me the community and networking 00:09:25.120 --> 00:09:29.179 point is really important because for me it's 00:09:29.179 --> 00:09:33.139 a community vibe rather than a networking vibe 00:09:33.139 --> 00:09:35.500 but the two are connected so I'm here because 00:09:35.500 --> 00:09:40.240 it's personal and um whatever we call it I guess 00:09:40.919 --> 00:09:44.379 I think I see the benefits of amplification, 00:09:44.539 --> 00:09:49.299 connectivity, learning. For me, feeling a little 00:09:49.299 --> 00:09:52.279 bit less alone, I guess, when I'm on my own working 00:09:52.279 --> 00:09:55.779 independently, which is really important. And 00:09:55.779 --> 00:09:59.179 so, yes, those things are the reasons why I think 00:09:59.179 --> 00:10:02.320 they're so valuable. And particularly for women, 00:10:02.360 --> 00:10:04.750 I think. I think there's something about... Thinking 00:10:04.750 --> 00:10:06.710 about the way I know we're here on a sort of 00:10:06.710 --> 00:10:08.389 podcast thinking about the networks in the context 00:10:08.389 --> 00:10:10.690 of women. But if we think about what's happening 00:10:10.690 --> 00:10:13.429 in the world and, you know, the challenges that 00:10:13.429 --> 00:10:16.750 organizations are facing around D .E. and I and, 00:10:16.789 --> 00:10:19.690 you know, all the headwinds coming from the USA, 00:10:19.750 --> 00:10:22.629 the Trump executive orders, etc. I think the 00:10:22.629 --> 00:10:25.250 role of. Being in a forum or a community, and 00:10:25.250 --> 00:10:27.230 we're using the phrase ERG in businesses, is 00:10:27.230 --> 00:10:30.669 becoming more and more important. I see that 00:10:30.669 --> 00:10:33.009 with my clients in the last few months because 00:10:33.009 --> 00:10:37.289 people need to be able to, you know, maybe six 00:10:37.289 --> 00:10:39.090 months ago, people could talk more freely about 00:10:39.090 --> 00:10:42.070 DE &I and inclusion. But I think the need for 00:10:42.070 --> 00:10:44.610 communities in business world has become even 00:10:44.610 --> 00:10:47.929 greater. They have a bigger role to play as networks 00:10:47.929 --> 00:10:50.009 in business life now than perhaps they did before 00:10:50.009 --> 00:10:53.289 because they need to be a safe space. that people 00:10:53.289 --> 00:10:56.809 can share, people can bring leaders in, you know, 00:10:56.809 --> 00:10:58.309 communities that people can bring leaders in 00:10:58.309 --> 00:11:00.710 to talk about. So I think the role of networks 00:11:00.710 --> 00:11:03.250 in tradition, you know, in corporate life, which 00:11:03.250 --> 00:11:05.649 I'm referring to here specifically, is really, 00:11:05.730 --> 00:11:07.669 really important, probably more important than 00:11:07.669 --> 00:11:10.509 ever before. And as an individual, you can grow 00:11:10.509 --> 00:11:12.929 your social capital. And I really like that word 00:11:12.929 --> 00:11:14.769 social capital when thinking about the networks 00:11:14.769 --> 00:11:18.250 that you belong to as well. Because if an organisation 00:11:18.250 --> 00:11:20.830 is struggling at the moment with many business 00:11:20.830 --> 00:11:24.169 issues, If the ERGs and the networks no longer 00:11:24.169 --> 00:11:27.750 exist, how are organisations going to know what 00:11:27.750 --> 00:11:30.330 communities and populations think? So I think 00:11:30.330 --> 00:11:33.730 there needs to continue and be more energy put 00:11:33.730 --> 00:11:36.769 around keeping the networks in the business life 00:11:36.769 --> 00:11:39.230 going and thriving. And I think there's a key 00:11:39.230 --> 00:11:41.370 critical piece that people don't talk about enough 00:11:41.370 --> 00:11:44.830 is networks, which is how they are led and managed. 00:11:45.049 --> 00:11:48.629 And that's another piece. Because I belong to 00:11:48.629 --> 00:11:51.009 the City Women's Network. I'm on the board of 00:11:51.009 --> 00:11:53.009 them. And I'm just mentioning that, that people, 00:11:53.090 --> 00:11:54.990 I've been on the board for many years there. 00:11:55.129 --> 00:11:57.690 But I know that as our leadership has changed 00:11:57.690 --> 00:12:00.049 and our style has changed and our focus has changed, 00:12:00.110 --> 00:12:02.370 our membership and outputs and outcomes change. 00:12:02.649 --> 00:12:04.990 So I'm just going to pause there. I think being 00:12:04.990 --> 00:12:07.389 part of a network is also part of, you know, 00:12:07.389 --> 00:12:09.070 looking at the leadership as well. You know, 00:12:09.070 --> 00:12:10.690 who's leading it and how well is it being led 00:12:10.690 --> 00:12:12.970 and what role can you play as an individual in 00:12:12.970 --> 00:12:16.519 that? yeah it's a really it's a really important 00:12:16.519 --> 00:12:20.039 aspect i think of i think historically and this 00:12:20.039 --> 00:12:22.740 is maybe a bit of a sweeping statement but when 00:12:22.740 --> 00:12:24.779 we when it comes to ergs and i'm particularly 00:12:24.779 --> 00:12:27.559 talking from my perspective of seeing ergs run 00:12:27.559 --> 00:12:29.759 across a variety of different customers and sectors 00:12:29.759 --> 00:12:34.700 industries that they're often seen as kind of 00:12:34.700 --> 00:12:39.179 a nice to have and they're there you create that 00:12:39.179 --> 00:12:41.240 space for people but there's no real strategy 00:12:41.240 --> 00:12:45.059 behind them and i would say that's that that's 00:12:45.059 --> 00:12:47.480 historically that's been the perspective but 00:12:47.480 --> 00:12:49.519 i'm totally with you ronda that now there seems 00:12:49.519 --> 00:12:52.340 to be a change in conversation and i and i wonder 00:12:52.340 --> 00:12:56.820 if that is being driven by that lack of i don't 00:12:56.820 --> 00:12:59.039 know community essentially for want of a better 00:12:59.039 --> 00:13:01.700 word that we're experiencing in the in the world 00:13:01.700 --> 00:13:04.279 in general and all of the bad stuff that's going 00:13:04.279 --> 00:13:07.059 on how is that impacting us and what maybe not 00:13:07.059 --> 00:13:09.460 even all the bad stuff but the the change in 00:13:09.460 --> 00:13:13.110 technology with thinking about AI and the fact 00:13:13.110 --> 00:13:15.870 that we're now leaning more into the human -ness 00:13:15.870 --> 00:13:18.909 of people, then actually we're seeing that value 00:13:18.909 --> 00:13:20.570 of bringing people together around particular 00:13:20.570 --> 00:13:22.710 topics and subjects in order to drive change. 00:13:23.070 --> 00:13:26.509 But we need visionary leaders and people who 00:13:26.509 --> 00:13:28.769 are going to be accountable for driving the strategy 00:13:28.769 --> 00:13:32.070 of those ERGs or community groups within an organisation 00:13:32.070 --> 00:13:35.210 to make sure that they're having an impact. And 00:13:35.210 --> 00:13:37.470 I think that kind of social capital angle you 00:13:37.470 --> 00:13:39.470 were talking about is definitely right. And I 00:13:39.470 --> 00:13:42.429 always remember Fiona Barron, who is one of the 00:13:42.429 --> 00:13:44.409 original members of the women in community who 00:13:44.409 --> 00:13:46.169 works for a company called T -minus currently, 00:13:46.309 --> 00:13:48.429 which is focused on equality in the workplace, 00:13:48.590 --> 00:13:53.049 saying that your network is your net worth. And 00:13:53.049 --> 00:13:57.330 I always love that phrase because it is that 00:13:57.330 --> 00:14:00.850 kind of. building a network amplifies the opportunities 00:14:00.850 --> 00:14:03.309 that you'll you'll have because you never know 00:14:03.309 --> 00:14:04.549 who you're going to meet if we're thinking about 00:14:04.549 --> 00:14:08.029 lnd specifically it's a very small it can suddenly 00:14:08.029 --> 00:14:10.350 feel like a very small place to be and you never 00:14:10.350 --> 00:14:12.970 know who you're talking to and the impact that 00:14:12.970 --> 00:14:15.210 that person's going to have so yeah we're touching 00:14:15.210 --> 00:14:17.629 a few points there but it whilst we're talking 00:14:17.629 --> 00:14:20.730 it also reminded me of time when a very anecdotal 00:14:20.730 --> 00:14:23.250 story but i was headed to a training session 00:14:23.250 --> 00:14:25.809 when i was i think this is when i was a phd student 00:14:25.809 --> 00:14:28.279 i was headed to a training session on a train 00:14:28.279 --> 00:14:31.279 it was a very busy train and as you do when the 00:14:31.279 --> 00:14:34.340 train stops everyone got up and tried to get 00:14:34.340 --> 00:14:36.039 off all at once instead of you know waiting like 00:14:36.039 --> 00:14:37.840 you should do on an airplane for all the lines 00:14:37.840 --> 00:14:40.100 in front of you to get off before you and it 00:14:40.100 --> 00:14:42.340 really annoys me when people do that so I stopped 00:14:42.340 --> 00:14:44.720 and then left let a lady off and she was like 00:14:44.720 --> 00:14:47.259 oh thank you so much she got off and then 10 00:14:47.259 --> 00:14:48.759 minutes later we ended up in the same training 00:14:48.759 --> 00:14:51.059 room together and she was actually the person 00:14:51.059 --> 00:14:53.500 delivering the training session and we were like 00:14:53.500 --> 00:14:55.399 oh hi and it was that kind of you never know 00:14:55.399 --> 00:14:56.960 the impact that you're going to have on someone 00:14:56.960 --> 00:14:59.139 and she was I really appreciated you letting 00:14:59.139 --> 00:15:01.539 me off the train and that had a real impact and 00:15:01.539 --> 00:15:03.759 it's a very small moment but it's things like 00:15:03.759 --> 00:15:05.220 that that you don't know who you're going to 00:15:05.220 --> 00:15:07.720 meet what impact you're going to have and how 00:15:07.720 --> 00:15:10.740 that person is going to amplify your journey, 00:15:10.779 --> 00:15:14.080 your story or vice versa that can also feed into 00:15:14.080 --> 00:15:16.980 that. So, yeah, lots of different different ideas 00:15:16.980 --> 00:15:19.100 that I think are worth unpicking. Sharon, I'd 00:15:19.100 --> 00:15:20.779 be keen to hear your perspective. Well, yeah, 00:15:20.919 --> 00:15:23.019 I was kind of I'm going to declare that I feel 00:15:23.019 --> 00:15:25.820 slightly uncomfortable with the word social capital 00:15:25.820 --> 00:15:30.789 and also the net. working network for me I guess 00:15:30.789 --> 00:15:34.009 and that's to do with me you know my kind of 00:15:34.009 --> 00:15:37.250 I guess my background you know my driver for 00:15:37.250 --> 00:15:40.950 running a community and also for what I think 00:15:41.829 --> 00:15:45.210 sometimes networking can be particularly I think 00:15:45.210 --> 00:15:47.710 for women I am going to gender it because we 00:15:47.710 --> 00:15:50.110 are on the women in learning podcast so so I 00:15:50.110 --> 00:15:52.769 think that there's something where that feels 00:15:52.769 --> 00:15:56.350 quite whilst I recognize that you can that it 00:15:56.350 --> 00:15:59.610 is about social capital on one level I think 00:15:59.610 --> 00:16:02.570 if I think if I personally viewed it through 00:16:02.570 --> 00:16:04.830 that lens all the time I think there's an element 00:16:04.830 --> 00:16:09.509 of avoiding the systemic you know challenges, 00:16:09.590 --> 00:16:12.789 I think, that women have, particularly networking 00:16:12.789 --> 00:16:15.909 within corporate organisations, where they might 00:16:15.909 --> 00:16:17.970 have an underrepresentation at board level, for 00:16:17.970 --> 00:16:21.250 example, where networking might be seen as a 00:16:21.250 --> 00:16:26.250 way of gaining career advancement, which is real, 00:16:26.350 --> 00:16:29.250 but also it doesn't necessarily facilitate some 00:16:29.250 --> 00:16:32.049 of the barriers to entry that I think are very 00:16:32.049 --> 00:16:35.129 real, not just for women, but for other underrepresented 00:16:35.129 --> 00:16:38.820 groups. etc so I think there's an element that 00:16:38.820 --> 00:16:41.360 makes me feel quite uncomfortable talking about 00:16:41.360 --> 00:16:44.500 it even though I recognize by the fact that I 00:16:44.500 --> 00:16:47.600 mean I run an unpaid network it started a very 00:16:47.600 --> 00:16:50.720 long time ago I saw it change during Covid particularly 00:16:50.720 --> 00:16:54.779 when I think people valued the connectivity even 00:16:54.779 --> 00:16:58.299 virtually rather than in real life so much more 00:16:58.299 --> 00:17:01.639 I think there's something in some of the words 00:17:01.639 --> 00:17:03.759 that we might use around it that feels quite 00:17:03.759 --> 00:17:06.420 transactional and almost like you get something 00:17:06.420 --> 00:17:08.660 from me Helen or you get something from me Rhonda 00:17:08.660 --> 00:17:12.480 and then I take back whereas I think that a community 00:17:12.480 --> 00:17:15.720 or a network is probably a bit more for me about 00:17:15.720 --> 00:17:18.920 connecting other people to other people for which 00:17:18.920 --> 00:17:20.880 I get a benefit which I might not necessarily 00:17:20.880 --> 00:17:24.880 be able to tangibly realize but it's just magic 00:17:24.880 --> 00:17:28.740 you know in a sense so I think there's an element 00:17:28.740 --> 00:17:32.650 of community building for me as opposed to and 00:17:32.650 --> 00:17:36.190 once I realized that I guess it freed me from 00:17:36.190 --> 00:17:37.990 some of the constraints I think that networking 00:17:37.990 --> 00:17:41.789 events have for me personally or my view of networking 00:17:41.789 --> 00:17:46.079 had for me personally so and there can be Yeah, 00:17:46.140 --> 00:17:48.599 I'm going to stop there, really, because for 00:17:48.599 --> 00:17:51.839 me, some of the things that are really intrinsic 00:17:51.839 --> 00:17:54.740 to my value on my brand, I guess, are around 00:17:54.740 --> 00:17:57.339 paying it forward. So when I invite people into 00:17:57.339 --> 00:17:59.819 my community or I talk about it, I don't really 00:17:59.819 --> 00:18:02.000 talk about it very much. But from here, people 00:18:02.000 --> 00:18:04.900 recommend people to join and then I give them 00:18:04.900 --> 00:18:07.859 some community blurb. And one of the words is 00:18:07.859 --> 00:18:10.400 like, you know, we have a pay it forward ethos. 00:18:10.400 --> 00:18:13.880 If that's your jam, come along. And it isn't 00:18:13.880 --> 00:18:16.849 everybody's jam, right? And that's OK, because 00:18:16.849 --> 00:18:19.829 there's tons of other networks that I'm really 00:18:19.829 --> 00:18:23.190 happy to publicise and share so that somebody 00:18:23.190 --> 00:18:26.769 will find their people, even if I'm not their 00:18:26.769 --> 00:18:29.890 people. So for me, it's about that, I guess. 00:18:30.089 --> 00:18:33.230 And so I'm wondering if you see any differences 00:18:33.230 --> 00:18:37.970 for women networking over, I mean, obviously 00:18:37.970 --> 00:18:40.769 we're all women, so we can talk from our perspective, 00:18:40.789 --> 00:18:42.730 but do you see any kind of gender differences 00:18:42.730 --> 00:18:46.200 there? Yeah, because there's a question that, 00:18:46.279 --> 00:18:48.839 yeah, there's a question which is coming in the 00:18:48.839 --> 00:18:50.019 chat and I don't know whether you'd seen that. 00:18:50.079 --> 00:18:52.519 And it's a good link into this, which is, you 00:18:52.519 --> 00:18:55.700 know, is, you know, is networking hard or different, 00:18:55.779 --> 00:18:59.720 easier for women? So I think we could build, 00:18:59.779 --> 00:19:02.680 let's think about that as well, because in my 00:19:02.680 --> 00:19:06.980 experience, I think women in, as a massive generalisation 00:19:06.980 --> 00:19:09.859 though, will be more open about seeking support. 00:19:10.279 --> 00:19:14.180 And I observe. I observe my own experience that 00:19:14.180 --> 00:19:18.140 women might be sometimes feeling more. What's 00:19:18.140 --> 00:19:21.359 the word? In a male dominated culture, say in 00:19:21.359 --> 00:19:23.539 the workplace, they might historically in the 00:19:23.539 --> 00:19:25.779 years previously might have been less comfortable 00:19:25.779 --> 00:19:29.000 speaking up. There might be challenges in a male 00:19:29.000 --> 00:19:31.579 dominated culture, for example. So I think a 00:19:31.579 --> 00:19:35.660 lot of women will. find it easier to perhaps 00:19:35.660 --> 00:19:38.740 ask for support if there's a network specifically 00:19:38.740 --> 00:19:43.200 set up for themselves. I don't have the neuroscience 00:19:43.200 --> 00:19:47.680 data at my fingertips, but I continue to read 00:19:47.680 --> 00:19:52.599 that women respond differently under pressure 00:19:52.599 --> 00:19:57.539 and that we therefore might need to seek out 00:19:57.539 --> 00:19:59.980 the company of others to share those problems 00:19:59.980 --> 00:20:02.519 with. So is it different and easier for women? 00:20:03.069 --> 00:20:05.029 I find that quite difficult to be scientific 00:20:05.029 --> 00:20:07.829 in my evaluation of, but I know there's neuroscience 00:20:07.829 --> 00:20:10.150 to support the men and women learn and process 00:20:10.150 --> 00:20:13.009 communications and emotions differently. I guess 00:20:13.009 --> 00:20:16.150 the networks have been set up specifically for 00:20:16.150 --> 00:20:19.529 women in response to a need. You know, I think 00:20:19.529 --> 00:20:23.289 men, I think an answer could be, well, men and 00:20:23.289 --> 00:20:26.509 women learn and communicate differently. So actually 00:20:26.509 --> 00:20:29.690 that could be part of a more... That could lead 00:20:29.690 --> 00:20:32.369 to a more thorough answer to that question. I 00:20:32.369 --> 00:20:35.690 think maybe monocultures are at play when you're 00:20:35.690 --> 00:20:38.450 looking about how people communicate in organisations. 00:20:38.910 --> 00:20:42.210 If there's a very male -dominated culture, a 00:20:42.210 --> 00:20:44.890 women's network might appeal for obvious reasons 00:20:44.890 --> 00:20:46.609 because the women might want to be able to speak 00:20:46.609 --> 00:20:48.849 more freely. But I'm going to pause there. What 00:20:48.849 --> 00:20:51.309 do you, Helen, think, and Sharon, on that specific 00:20:51.309 --> 00:20:54.349 question about how much easier or different is 00:20:54.349 --> 00:20:58.279 networking for women? Yeah, well, what I've seen 00:20:58.279 --> 00:21:01.119 and what I've heard, certainly in the network, 00:21:01.279 --> 00:21:04.539 the community that I run, but also the communities 00:21:04.539 --> 00:21:08.220 that I know others run as well, is that the conversations 00:21:08.220 --> 00:21:12.420 wouldn't evolve or happen in the same way if 00:21:12.420 --> 00:21:16.079 they weren't women only. And I think that there's 00:21:16.079 --> 00:21:19.880 something around the safety that's created in 00:21:19.880 --> 00:21:22.980 those environments for people to say things, 00:21:23.079 --> 00:21:26.400 to surface things and not... have an element 00:21:26.400 --> 00:21:28.779 of fear hanging over them and I don't I don't 00:21:28.779 --> 00:21:30.440 necessarily like you Rhonda I don't necessarily 00:21:30.440 --> 00:21:33.240 know exactly what that is or why that is just 00:21:33.240 --> 00:21:35.660 that there is a need there to create a safe space 00:21:35.660 --> 00:21:38.539 for people I have faced personal challenge from 00:21:38.539 --> 00:21:42.579 people saying well if a man set up a male network 00:21:42.579 --> 00:21:46.099 everyone would be up in arms about it and I I 00:21:46.099 --> 00:21:48.900 actually really disagree on that. I think networking 00:21:48.900 --> 00:21:52.119 spaces for men are really needed and community 00:21:52.119 --> 00:21:55.160 groups to help men have the right conversations 00:21:55.160 --> 00:21:56.960 and talk more openly. Because to your point, 00:21:57.000 --> 00:22:01.000 Rhonda, women tend to be able to. have open and 00:22:01.000 --> 00:22:04.680 upfront and honest conversations about the depths 00:22:04.680 --> 00:22:06.880 of people's lives and the feelings and emotions 00:22:06.880 --> 00:22:10.640 that go along with that. And my perception is 00:22:10.640 --> 00:22:13.000 that men can sometimes struggle more to do that 00:22:13.000 --> 00:22:14.960 because of the societal pressures that have been 00:22:14.960 --> 00:22:17.900 put on them historically. So creating spaces 00:22:17.900 --> 00:22:22.349 for both is, I think, is required. when when 00:22:22.349 --> 00:22:24.529 it comes to I mean think I wonder or Sharon I 00:22:24.529 --> 00:22:26.390 can't remember whether it was which one of you 00:22:26.390 --> 00:22:28.450 it was but you mentioned about the nervousness 00:22:28.450 --> 00:22:29.990 that comes I think Sharon it was you talking 00:22:29.990 --> 00:22:33.089 about women in your community there's a nervousness 00:22:33.089 --> 00:22:35.410 that comes when you say the word networking I 00:22:35.410 --> 00:22:37.809 think that nervousness is the same for men and 00:22:37.809 --> 00:22:41.710 women and we we we have the perspective of because 00:22:41.710 --> 00:22:45.470 we run um female communities we see it more often 00:22:45.470 --> 00:22:48.109 that it is a women that are having that conversation 00:22:48.109 --> 00:22:51.250 but I've spoken to many male colleagues and they 00:22:51.250 --> 00:22:53.349 have the same concerns about I don't really like 00:22:53.349 --> 00:22:56.009 networking I don't want to do it but I don't 00:22:56.009 --> 00:22:58.130 know I don't know what what whether there's any 00:22:58.130 --> 00:22:59.990 differences that you've seen Sharon but I think 00:22:59.990 --> 00:23:01.829 it's really interesting it's really interesting 00:23:01.829 --> 00:23:04.410 to think about those female spaces are definitely 00:23:04.410 --> 00:23:07.569 needed and but the male spaces are as well and 00:23:07.569 --> 00:23:09.589 then those cross groups it just depends what 00:23:09.589 --> 00:23:12.579 the purpose of what you start for I run a cross 00:23:12.579 --> 00:23:16.700 -group, so my group is for anybody who works 00:23:16.700 --> 00:23:20.220 independently. But what I do notice is, and I 00:23:20.220 --> 00:23:24.420 do completely acknowledge the nervousness or 00:23:24.420 --> 00:23:27.519 the view of networking or the idea of it being 00:23:27.519 --> 00:23:31.799 a club that's quite closed and where you might 00:23:31.799 --> 00:23:34.299 be in an out -group rather than an in -group. 00:23:34.359 --> 00:23:36.839 I think all of those things are kind of probably 00:23:36.839 --> 00:23:40.529 gender mutual. And when I was asking my community 00:23:40.529 --> 00:23:42.450 their thoughts on networking ahead of this, because 00:23:42.450 --> 00:23:44.210 I thought, oh, I'd be really curious to know 00:23:44.210 --> 00:23:47.970 what they think. There was lots of, oh, you know, 00:23:47.970 --> 00:23:50.890 I feel nervous coming into a room of people, 00:23:51.009 --> 00:23:53.230 you know, a stereotypical networking event, a 00:23:53.230 --> 00:23:55.829 big room of people I don't know, you know, and 00:23:55.829 --> 00:23:59.349 tips that they would share to kind of facilitate 00:23:59.349 --> 00:24:02.750 that, get over the nerves, etc. I mean, there 00:24:02.750 --> 00:24:07.579 was no difference in gender. And I get interesting 00:24:07.579 --> 00:24:09.440 feedback from both the men and the women that 00:24:09.440 --> 00:24:12.460 are in my community. But I do think that, I mean, 00:24:12.480 --> 00:24:17.140 I was reading some research ahead of our chat 00:24:17.140 --> 00:24:19.380 today because I thought, oh, well, I should really 00:24:19.380 --> 00:24:23.299 look at proper research, not just my anecdotal 00:24:23.299 --> 00:24:25.180 research of running a community for the last 00:24:25.180 --> 00:24:29.200 16 years or whatever. And there was some interesting 00:24:29.200 --> 00:24:32.319 stuff about how we group together, like similar 00:24:32.319 --> 00:24:34.240 people group together. And I can definitely see 00:24:34.240 --> 00:24:37.420 that in my... network i see more women probably 00:24:37.420 --> 00:24:39.519 than men and that's probably to do with the fact 00:24:39.519 --> 00:24:41.920 that i'm a woman you know um so there's this 00:24:41.920 --> 00:24:45.440 concept of you know us seeking out like like 00:24:45.440 --> 00:24:48.079 -minded people and so i think there's a responsibility 00:24:48.079 --> 00:24:50.880 when we run a community or a network or we bring 00:24:50.880 --> 00:24:53.339 people together about creating that safe space 00:24:53.339 --> 00:24:56.380 that allows people who may have varying feelings 00:24:56.380 --> 00:25:00.660 about coming together to feel safe um i do think 00:25:00.660 --> 00:25:02.519 there's probably some specific things particularly 00:25:02.519 --> 00:25:04.880 networking in real life that i was thinking about 00:25:04.880 --> 00:25:08.920 around safety that might be more women orientated 00:25:08.920 --> 00:25:11.799 than men just because of psychological not just 00:25:11.799 --> 00:25:14.059 psychological safety but actual physical safety 00:25:14.059 --> 00:25:16.940 you know like feeling safe within a network with 00:25:16.940 --> 00:25:21.359 a group of you know other people maybe a lot 00:25:21.359 --> 00:25:24.900 of men for example which I have felt myself and 00:25:24.900 --> 00:25:27.920 do notice but I do think there's an onus on when 00:25:27.920 --> 00:25:29.859 we build communities whether it's in the work 00:25:29.859 --> 00:25:32.599 or out to create that psychological safety and 00:25:32.599 --> 00:25:35.400 that safe space where everybody feels welcome 00:25:35.400 --> 00:25:39.720 yeah particularly people from out groups or underrepresented 00:25:39.720 --> 00:25:43.079 groups etc yeah I'm not sure where that leads 00:25:43.079 --> 00:25:47.859 us in the conversation Well, I think there's 00:25:47.859 --> 00:25:49.619 something that I think is important to, as we 00:25:49.619 --> 00:25:52.240 think about the impact or the role of networks 00:25:52.240 --> 00:25:54.740 and particularly women's networks, thinking about 00:25:54.740 --> 00:25:57.500 post -COVID and the fact that many of us had 00:25:57.500 --> 00:26:00.980 different experiences of working and being remote. 00:26:01.319 --> 00:26:04.099 And then looking at the intergenerational landscape, 00:26:04.279 --> 00:26:09.130 I see a lot of... let's call it the Gen Zs and 00:26:09.130 --> 00:26:12.130 the millennials, really, really just working 00:26:12.130 --> 00:26:14.730 very naturally with technology. And they were 00:26:14.730 --> 00:26:16.750 already talking, they looked at their networks 00:26:16.750 --> 00:26:18.890 differently than perhaps other generations and 00:26:18.890 --> 00:26:21.849 other population families might look at. So I 00:26:21.849 --> 00:26:23.269 think that's a consideration when you're thinking 00:26:23.269 --> 00:26:26.450 about the impact of women's networks, you know, 00:26:26.450 --> 00:26:29.569 the power of technology to connect people quickly 00:26:29.569 --> 00:26:33.250 might be more, might be easier for some age groups 00:26:33.250 --> 00:26:35.130 more than others, or might be more second nature. 00:26:35.640 --> 00:26:38.700 I see that a lot and particularly around the 00:26:38.700 --> 00:26:42.240 use of WhatsApp and that kind of thing. So I 00:26:42.240 --> 00:26:45.319 think if I was setting up a network now, I would 00:26:45.319 --> 00:26:47.400 be mindful of how people like to communicate 00:26:47.400 --> 00:26:50.400 and how people like to receive information, go 00:26:50.400 --> 00:26:53.400 to events and be streaming. And I think from 00:26:53.400 --> 00:26:57.109 an organisational perspective. running ERGs now 00:26:57.109 --> 00:26:59.990 so many I know from the work I do my clients 00:26:59.990 --> 00:27:03.170 will say well actually we want to stream this 00:27:03.170 --> 00:27:05.470 we want to download this we want to in a way 00:27:05.470 --> 00:27:07.269 that you might not have done maybe 10 years ago 00:27:07.269 --> 00:27:09.970 so I think that's a consideration as well and 00:27:09.970 --> 00:27:12.250 then the neurodiversity aspect to overlay over 00:27:12.250 --> 00:27:16.009 that as well which is another conversation but 00:27:16.990 --> 00:27:19.289 Yeah, I definitely agree with that, Rhonda, in 00:27:19.289 --> 00:27:22.089 terms of the type of technology or channels that 00:27:22.089 --> 00:27:24.890 are useful for people to interact with and what's 00:27:24.890 --> 00:27:27.430 going to work for different audiences and how 00:27:27.430 --> 00:27:30.750 you can also think about that from a networking 00:27:30.750 --> 00:27:33.569 perspective. I think I actually think a lot of 00:27:33.569 --> 00:27:35.430 L &D events specifically, obviously, because 00:27:35.430 --> 00:27:38.210 that's where I spend most of my time, are not 00:27:38.210 --> 00:27:41.089 doing a great job of that cross -generational 00:27:41.089 --> 00:27:45.359 gap filling. And we're still quite... old school 00:27:45.359 --> 00:27:47.460 when it comes to events come and if you look 00:27:47.460 --> 00:27:50.240 at kind of the actual events sector itself doing 00:27:50.240 --> 00:27:54.559 really great interactive experience driven conferences 00:27:54.559 --> 00:27:58.160 as an example and then it it it's it's not meeting 00:27:58.160 --> 00:28:00.259 people where they are so it has this kind of 00:28:00.259 --> 00:28:03.119 perception of it always almost causes that friction 00:28:03.119 --> 00:28:05.519 of what i mean i talk about this quite a lot 00:28:05.519 --> 00:28:07.599 in my own work but that friction between what 00:28:07.599 --> 00:28:09.420 people are expecting and what they're actually 00:28:09.819 --> 00:28:12.640 experiencing and so I definitely think channel 00:28:12.640 --> 00:28:15.619 matters particularly for engaging younger younger 00:28:15.619 --> 00:28:18.259 generations in in the right conversations and 00:28:18.259 --> 00:28:21.380 we've never been more globally connected as as 00:28:21.380 --> 00:28:25.059 a pop as populations and I think we we can potentially 00:28:25.059 --> 00:28:27.160 take that for granted a little bit that actually 00:28:27.160 --> 00:28:30.319 um it taking for take it for granted that we're 00:28:30.319 --> 00:28:32.680 not we're even more the possibilities of connection 00:28:32.680 --> 00:28:35.559 are even more at our fingertips but it's also 00:28:35.559 --> 00:28:39.349 that disadvantage of How do you know how to leverage 00:28:39.349 --> 00:28:43.529 that or utilize it and get the right information 00:28:43.529 --> 00:28:47.549 from those places as well? I think channel, I 00:28:47.549 --> 00:28:50.690 think it's kind of multi -channel for me. Multi 00:28:50.690 --> 00:28:53.109 -channel is about, is where it's at really. So 00:28:53.109 --> 00:28:55.450 some people I know in my network. So I've got 00:28:55.450 --> 00:28:57.990 like over 3 ,000 people in the network globally. 00:28:58.170 --> 00:29:00.529 The majority are in the UK, then the Netherlands 00:29:00.529 --> 00:29:02.470 is the next biggest audience and then it spreads 00:29:02.470 --> 00:29:05.390 out plus Europe and then some kind of outliers 00:29:05.390 --> 00:29:08.910 both in US, Canada, South America and then the 00:29:08.910 --> 00:29:12.450 Far East. What I see is that people want a mix. 00:29:12.509 --> 00:29:16.690 So virtual in real life. So everything went virtual 00:29:16.690 --> 00:29:19.809 during COVID. The WhatsApp chats channels that 00:29:19.809 --> 00:29:22.509 I run connected to the community. Some people 00:29:22.509 --> 00:29:24.430 join them. Some people don't want that. They 00:29:24.430 --> 00:29:27.390 feel overwhelmed with information. Some people 00:29:27.390 --> 00:29:30.789 feel less tech savvy about using WhatsApp and 00:29:30.789 --> 00:29:36.150 searching on it. formulate tips to try and help 00:29:36.150 --> 00:29:38.329 people navigate it but some people just don't 00:29:38.329 --> 00:29:40.130 want it they're overwhelmed and they don't want 00:29:40.130 --> 00:29:45.450 it and then linkedin being a community area but 00:29:45.450 --> 00:29:48.190 then some people are having i guess second thoughts 00:29:48.190 --> 00:29:50.829 about that as a platform and so one of the consistent 00:29:50.829 --> 00:29:53.250 challenges i think is finding the light space 00:29:53.250 --> 00:29:56.910 and creating yeah whatever the space is whatever 00:29:56.910 --> 00:30:00.170 the tool is for me it's about creating that the 00:30:00.170 --> 00:30:04.329 safety the values the purpose and trying even 00:30:04.329 --> 00:30:07.109 as it grows so we started off as a pub group 00:30:07.109 --> 00:30:10.289 right very small meeting in real life and so 00:30:10.289 --> 00:30:13.990 even as it grows keeping the purpose the intent 00:30:13.990 --> 00:30:17.930 and the feeling i guess behind it to keep it 00:30:17.930 --> 00:30:20.250 going and sustaining it yeah and i think that 00:30:20.250 --> 00:30:23.089 if we bring it back to say learning because obviously 00:30:23.089 --> 00:30:24.869 this is a women talking about learning podcast 00:30:24.869 --> 00:30:28.849 then i guess um you know do we think And, you 00:30:28.849 --> 00:30:32.069 know, what do we think about networks for L &D? 00:30:32.170 --> 00:30:34.250 I mean, I'm going to declare my hand. I mean, 00:30:34.289 --> 00:30:38.630 I learn so much from listening to other people 00:30:38.630 --> 00:30:41.730 chatting about stuff I have no idea about. Right. 00:30:42.569 --> 00:30:46.730 And I benefit so much. So when people ask me, 00:30:46.769 --> 00:30:49.549 why do I run this network for free? I kind of 00:30:49.549 --> 00:30:52.319 like I'm getting all of this wisdom. from all 00:30:52.319 --> 00:30:54.500 of these people about stuff that I had no idea 00:30:54.500 --> 00:30:56.680 about. And it really makes me think about if 00:30:56.680 --> 00:30:59.599 I was back in house again, how my community building 00:30:59.599 --> 00:31:03.619 experience and expertise would really help internally, 00:31:03.819 --> 00:31:06.440 particularly around building communities of practice, 00:31:06.579 --> 00:31:11.339 for example, or getting people to connect across 00:31:11.339 --> 00:31:14.000 organisation, build skills together, learn from 00:31:14.000 --> 00:31:17.940 each other. So what do you think? But I think 00:31:17.940 --> 00:31:19.740 building on what you were saying, that bringing 00:31:19.740 --> 00:31:22.299 it back to skills specifically inside an organisation 00:31:22.299 --> 00:31:26.000 is a really interesting angle from the particular 00:31:26.000 --> 00:31:29.220 challenges. So I see that particularly smaller 00:31:29.220 --> 00:31:33.839 scale L &D teams, even individuals, because headcount 00:31:33.839 --> 00:31:36.500 and budgets have been cut so much, who are acting 00:31:36.500 --> 00:31:40.079 as individuals now, really crave that network 00:31:40.079 --> 00:31:42.880 to... challenge their best practice to challenge 00:31:42.880 --> 00:31:47.359 their ideas and to um think like to to say actually 00:31:47.359 --> 00:31:49.200 am i doing the right stuff for my organization 00:31:49.200 --> 00:31:51.839 and then when you come into the into a business 00:31:51.839 --> 00:31:55.720 and you're internal you can then say well actually 00:31:55.720 --> 00:31:58.750 that the the networks that people build and the 00:31:58.750 --> 00:32:00.970 opportunities we afford to our own employees 00:32:00.970 --> 00:32:03.589 internally can actually increase the chances 00:32:03.589 --> 00:32:05.430 of talent mobility and therefore filling skills 00:32:05.430 --> 00:32:09.349 gaps if we have that awareness of knowledge of 00:32:09.349 --> 00:32:12.769 depth of understanding of enhancing skills in 00:32:12.769 --> 00:32:15.069 certain ways across an organization through community 00:32:15.069 --> 00:32:17.009 and i think that's where the real impact comes 00:32:17.009 --> 00:32:19.829 certainly sharon for both you and i from that 00:32:19.829 --> 00:32:22.049 perspective of and ronda you might be included 00:32:22.049 --> 00:32:24.950 in this forgive me but that kind of building 00:32:24.950 --> 00:32:28.119 of We have that perspective of external community 00:32:28.119 --> 00:32:30.700 building and actually thinking about that internal 00:32:30.700 --> 00:32:33.859 perspective is hugely powerful and has so much 00:32:33.859 --> 00:32:38.019 potential, I think. Do you agree, Rhonda? Yes, 00:32:38.019 --> 00:32:40.940 I do. And I do agree with that. But I think I 00:32:40.940 --> 00:32:42.900 would just add to that that what I'm seeing is 00:32:42.900 --> 00:32:44.900 from the thinking about the learning community, 00:32:45.039 --> 00:32:47.400 you know, people in organisations looking at 00:32:47.400 --> 00:32:51.220 L &D and HR is they are, I think they are. They're 00:32:51.220 --> 00:32:53.059 bandwidth. They have less bandwidth. They've 00:32:53.059 --> 00:32:55.880 got to be really operational. Budgets are reduced. 00:32:56.440 --> 00:32:59.039 Everything, you know, everything is under increasing, 00:32:59.180 --> 00:33:01.279 you know, the challenges of transformation with 00:33:01.279 --> 00:33:04.380 performance. HR departments are really looking 00:33:04.380 --> 00:33:07.299 at how do I transform the organisation? But then 00:33:07.299 --> 00:33:09.119 we've also got to manage performance. I see all 00:33:09.119 --> 00:33:11.799 these tensions and then specifically they don't 00:33:11.799 --> 00:33:15.480 have access. always to have that strategic sounding 00:33:15.480 --> 00:33:18.000 board. So I think that would be, you know, thinking 00:33:18.000 --> 00:33:19.660 about what I think learning departments are facing, 00:33:19.720 --> 00:33:21.940 but that's a real sort of, I say it's a dilemma 00:33:21.940 --> 00:33:25.579 really, or polarity is managing that. So how 00:33:25.579 --> 00:33:27.400 can we help some of these people? I wonder what 00:33:27.400 --> 00:33:30.160 ways can we share them between us about maybe 00:33:30.160 --> 00:33:32.849 how networks can support these people? My advice 00:33:32.849 --> 00:33:35.650 is definitely join a network and that doesn't 00:33:35.650 --> 00:33:37.569 have to be a professional network. I think any 00:33:37.569 --> 00:33:41.349 sort of network or community group that resonates 00:33:41.349 --> 00:33:44.049 with you either personally or professionally 00:33:44.049 --> 00:33:47.109 is a great place to start because you have that 00:33:47.109 --> 00:33:50.650 ability to. As we said right at the beginning, 00:33:50.690 --> 00:33:52.829 to bring it full circle, to challenge your perspectives, 00:33:52.950 --> 00:33:56.190 to increase the connections you have with people 00:33:56.190 --> 00:33:58.809 and really kind of challenge your own thinking 00:33:58.809 --> 00:34:01.109 and your own ideas. And so if you haven't done 00:34:01.109 --> 00:34:03.410 that, that would be my first point of call. And 00:34:03.410 --> 00:34:05.430 then I think from an organizational perspective, 00:34:05.809 --> 00:34:08.409 a lot of particularly larger organizations are 00:34:08.409 --> 00:34:12.349 running ERGs and they're often side of desk projects. 00:34:12.769 --> 00:34:16.769 So how can you leverage the network that you 00:34:16.769 --> 00:34:19.760 have around you to help you? to be strategic 00:34:19.760 --> 00:34:21.940 in what you're trying to deliver and really understand 00:34:21.940 --> 00:34:24.980 the business problems that exist within your 00:34:24.980 --> 00:34:27.820 particular environment and dig into. I know people 00:34:27.820 --> 00:34:29.500 will be trying to do that. So I'm not trying 00:34:29.500 --> 00:34:31.400 to be dismissive and suggesting that no one's 00:34:31.400 --> 00:34:33.880 doing that. But how can we make sure we're having 00:34:33.880 --> 00:34:36.780 an impact and communicating that impact effectively 00:34:36.780 --> 00:34:39.079 and leveraging the right relationships internally 00:34:39.079 --> 00:34:43.739 to amplify that perspective and that shift that 00:34:43.739 --> 00:34:45.760 might be happening? Rhonda, what about you? What 00:34:45.760 --> 00:34:48.610 are your top tips? So I'm just going to share 00:34:48.610 --> 00:34:51.269 networks that I think can be helpful when you're 00:34:51.269 --> 00:34:54.349 working in the kind of learning world. So I think 00:34:54.349 --> 00:34:57.190 finding out about trade associations, membership 00:34:57.190 --> 00:34:59.789 bodies, which are aligned to the work you do. 00:34:59.889 --> 00:35:02.489 And it could be functions or it could be sectors, 00:35:02.710 --> 00:35:04.690 you know, the Institute of Direct Marketing, 00:35:04.929 --> 00:35:07.269 the CIPD, the Institute of Chartered Accountants. 00:35:07.309 --> 00:35:10.269 They all run fantastic events for non -members, 00:35:10.309 --> 00:35:12.289 even if you're not a member. I would look at 00:35:12.289 --> 00:35:15.309 some of the LinkedIn groups. It's a nice place 00:35:15.309 --> 00:35:18.639 to start if you're feeling. more reticent about 00:35:18.639 --> 00:35:21.780 joining something actively in person. I think 00:35:21.780 --> 00:35:25.300 Eventbrite, which has found me, is a fantastic 00:35:25.300 --> 00:35:29.559 place where if you show interest in learning 00:35:29.559 --> 00:35:32.400 events in Manchester or D &I events in London, 00:35:32.500 --> 00:35:34.480 the algorithm finds things for you. I think it's 00:35:34.480 --> 00:35:37.320 incredibly effective. And I think there's nothing 00:35:37.320 --> 00:35:40.940 like good old -fashioned, the proverbial grapevine, 00:35:41.119 --> 00:35:44.300 reaching out, where do your colleagues go? Where 00:35:44.300 --> 00:35:46.489 do the people you want to... do business with? 00:35:46.550 --> 00:35:49.750 Where do they hang out? And where would you like 00:35:49.750 --> 00:35:53.610 to be? It's like, which communities would you 00:35:53.610 --> 00:35:56.530 like to belong to, even if you don't belong to 00:35:56.530 --> 00:35:59.090 them yet? And there is something also about why 00:35:59.090 --> 00:36:02.349 not set up your own? So I'm very much an intrapreneur. 00:36:02.369 --> 00:36:04.110 I'm always focusing about creating communities 00:36:04.110 --> 00:36:06.710 within businesses as well. Create your own network. 00:36:07.349 --> 00:36:09.949 And that could be another topic. So I think it's 00:36:09.949 --> 00:36:12.949 about taking some initiative. and just trying 00:36:12.949 --> 00:36:15.550 a few things. And it's always quite nice to go 00:36:15.550 --> 00:36:18.409 with someone, or it can be a good way to build 00:36:18.409 --> 00:36:20.050 relationships. If you wanted to say to someone, 00:36:20.090 --> 00:36:23.070 would you like to come with me to join this particular 00:36:23.070 --> 00:36:25.550 club or network? And I think it's all about, 00:36:25.610 --> 00:36:28.929 lastly, you put in, you get out what you put 00:36:28.929 --> 00:36:31.340 in. Yeah, that's such good advice, Rhonda. I 00:36:31.340 --> 00:36:34.460 completely agree with you. And yeah, I really 00:36:34.460 --> 00:36:37.199 also like that perspective of just try it, just 00:36:37.199 --> 00:36:39.760 experiment, just see what happens. And that's 00:36:39.760 --> 00:36:41.820 why Women In was formed, essentially, is that 00:36:41.820 --> 00:36:44.000 I picked up on a pattern and conversations that 00:36:44.000 --> 00:36:45.619 were happening and said, you know what, we're 00:36:45.619 --> 00:36:47.360 going to have to do something about this and 00:36:47.360 --> 00:36:49.460 just put something out there. And it's grown 00:36:49.460 --> 00:36:51.980 and amplified over time, but it was just that, 00:36:52.079 --> 00:36:54.239 let's just try something and see if it solves 00:36:54.239 --> 00:36:56.159 the problem. And you never know where it's going 00:36:56.159 --> 00:36:58.780 to lead. Great to speak with you, Helen and Sharon, 00:36:58.920 --> 00:37:01.900 and good to be exploring this topic more and 00:37:01.900 --> 00:37:04.119 look forward to continuing at another time. Yeah, 00:37:04.159 --> 00:37:06.320 it's been a great conversation. Rhonda, it's 00:37:06.320 --> 00:37:08.139 been lovely to meet you, Sharon. Great to reconnect 00:37:08.139 --> 00:37:11.079 again. And I hope this has resonated with some 00:37:11.079 --> 00:37:13.559 people and people find value from the conversation 00:37:13.559 --> 00:37:17.019 we've had. I certainly have. Great to be involved 00:37:17.019 --> 00:37:20.000 in this conversation, Helen and Rhonda, and see 00:37:20.000 --> 00:37:22.280 you on screen. I'm really looking forward to 00:37:22.280 --> 00:37:25.679 hearing the recording myself. What a great episode 00:37:25.679 --> 00:37:28.460 to finish this year on. We've recorded some awesome 00:37:28.460 --> 00:37:30.880 episodes this year and we have lots more to come. 00:37:31.699 --> 00:37:34.199 A massive thank you to Sharon, Helen and Rhonda 00:37:34.199 --> 00:37:36.380 for their insight into this topic and for their 00:37:36.380 --> 00:37:39.659 time in making this a brilliant recording. We're 00:37:39.659 --> 00:37:41.019 sure you want to connect with them afterwards 00:37:41.019 --> 00:37:43.420 and their details are in the show notes, along 00:37:43.420 --> 00:37:45.480 with information about how to connect with us 00:37:45.480 --> 00:37:47.760 here at Women Talking About Learning. Please 00:37:47.760 --> 00:37:49.739 do remember to like and subscribe to the podcast 00:37:49.739 --> 00:37:52.829 on your podcast player. It really does make a 00:37:52.829 --> 00:37:54.710 difference in helping people find and recommend 00:37:54.710 --> 00:37:59.969 us. As this is the last episode of 2025, we'd 00:37:59.969 --> 00:38:02.650 like to wish you a very happy Christmas and a 00:38:02.650 --> 00:38:06.210 successful and peaceful new year. We're back 00:38:06.210 --> 00:38:10.510 on January 6th, 2026, and next time it's the 00:38:10.510 --> 00:38:15.030 third sector one. As always, thank you for listening, 00:38:15.130 --> 00:38:16.949 and we'll see you again soon.