WEBVTT 00:00:11.510 --> 00:00:14.529 Hello everyone and welcome to this episode, the 00:00:14.529 --> 00:00:16.089 data one of the Women Talking About Learning 00:00:16.089 --> 00:00:20.010 podcast. I'm Andrew Jacobs. There is more data 00:00:20.010 --> 00:00:22.829 around us than ever before. The amount of data 00:00:22.829 --> 00:00:24.910 generated worldwide, for example, has soared 00:00:24.910 --> 00:00:30.109 from 2 Zetabytes in 2010 to a whopping 64 .2 00:00:30.109 --> 00:00:33.409 Zetabytes in 2020, which is more than the number 00:00:33.409 --> 00:00:37.390 of detectable stars in the cosmos. However, what 00:00:37.390 --> 00:00:40.140 are we doing with it and how useful is it? To 00:00:40.140 --> 00:00:42.560 help iron out these questions we have two amazing 00:00:42.560 --> 00:00:45.679 guests, one who uses data in marketing and the 00:00:45.679 --> 00:00:48.640 other who uses data in AI. Our first guest is 00:00:48.640 --> 00:00:51.579 Rebecca Oliver. Through her business name Juxtam 00:00:51.579 --> 00:00:54.000 Marketing Solutions, Rebecca helps start -ups 00:00:54.000 --> 00:00:56.460 and businesses launching new products or services 00:00:56.460 --> 00:00:59.140 build smart, human -first marketing strategies 00:00:59.140 --> 00:01:02.780 that actually connect. She specialises in go 00:01:02.780 --> 00:01:05.260 -to market plans that don't just attract customers 00:01:05.260 --> 00:01:08.319 but make people feel something. Her approach 00:01:08.319 --> 00:01:11.000 puts humans first, helping brands create marketing 00:01:11.000 --> 00:01:13.939 they're proud of and audiences proud to support. 00:01:15.519 --> 00:01:18.680 Our next guest is Rachel George. Rachel is a 00:01:18.680 --> 00:01:21.500 generative BI senior manager on the cutting edge 00:01:21.500 --> 00:01:24.379 of AI transformation within business intelligence. 00:01:25.299 --> 00:01:27.659 She is passionate about educating others in data 00:01:27.659 --> 00:01:30.340 and AI, creating an industry -leading data and 00:01:30.340 --> 00:01:33.019 AI summer school, which concluded its third year 00:01:33.019 --> 00:01:38.530 in 2025. recorded in July 2025. This is a fascinating 00:01:38.530 --> 00:01:41.730 conversation, so settle back and enjoy. This 00:01:41.730 --> 00:01:44.129 is women talking about learning. This is Rebecca 00:01:44.129 --> 00:01:48.530 and Rachel talking about data. Hi, Rachel. It's 00:01:48.530 --> 00:01:52.150 good to be in touch. I'm Rebecca. Hey, Rebecca. 00:01:52.549 --> 00:01:54.629 Yeah, this is exciting, isn't it, getting on 00:01:54.629 --> 00:01:57.250 the Women in Learning podcast? How are you doing? 00:01:57.890 --> 00:01:59.650 Yeah, I'm good. I'm glad it's Friday, another 00:01:59.650 --> 00:02:01.689 week down. Just excited for the weekend now. 00:02:01.730 --> 00:02:06.659 How about you? Yeah, absolutely. I can't believe 00:02:06.659 --> 00:02:10.340 it's already Friday afternoon, right? It's one 00:02:10.340 --> 00:02:12.939 of those weeks every week. Here we are talking 00:02:12.939 --> 00:02:14.620 about data. What else would you want to do on 00:02:14.620 --> 00:02:18.080 a Friday afternoon? I know, right? Who could 00:02:18.080 --> 00:02:21.439 ask for more? You know, I'm in a data role, so 00:02:21.439 --> 00:02:25.120 data is my life, which I'm enjoying. And so, 00:02:25.159 --> 00:02:27.460 yeah, why not get to sing its praises on a Friday 00:02:27.460 --> 00:02:29.539 afternoon? Oh, my gosh. I know. Tell me more 00:02:29.539 --> 00:02:33.879 about that. Yeah, so... I mean, I'm in the generative 00:02:33.879 --> 00:02:36.319 BI space right now, right? So I work in the AI 00:02:36.319 --> 00:02:39.960 center of excellence, literally where all the 00:02:39.960 --> 00:02:42.039 fun stuff is happening right now in data and 00:02:42.039 --> 00:02:46.759 AI. So super, super exciting. And interestingly 00:02:46.759 --> 00:02:48.840 in a space where there's not actually that much 00:02:48.840 --> 00:02:51.819 learning around what generative BI is or even 00:02:51.819 --> 00:02:55.080 how to do it as a job. So all the challenges 00:02:55.080 --> 00:02:58.500 absolutely at our feet where I'm working at the 00:02:58.500 --> 00:03:01.159 moment. How about you? Oh my gosh, I bet that 00:03:01.159 --> 00:03:04.189 is just... being right in the very infancy of 00:03:04.189 --> 00:03:07.409 a new thing is so exciting but also a bit daunting. 00:03:08.710 --> 00:03:11.930 So I'm coming from a marketing background so 00:03:11.930 --> 00:03:14.370 I use data a lot within my role as a marketing 00:03:14.370 --> 00:03:17.469 consultant and how data can fuel better marketing 00:03:17.469 --> 00:03:20.150 results, how data is at the fingertips of everybody 00:03:20.150 --> 00:03:22.810 in order to kind of make better decisions for 00:03:22.810 --> 00:03:25.669 businesses and the growth of businesses. But 00:03:25.669 --> 00:03:27.629 what is really exciting, and I suppose translates 00:03:27.629 --> 00:03:29.789 well to you, Rachel, is that AI and marketing 00:03:29.789 --> 00:03:33.250 is such a hot topic right now. It's all everybody's 00:03:33.250 --> 00:03:36.050 talking about on LinkedIn. It's definitely fueling 00:03:36.050 --> 00:03:37.590 better results because it's making everybody's 00:03:37.590 --> 00:03:39.530 lives easier. But obviously it's a bit daunting 00:03:39.530 --> 00:03:41.069 because we're all thinking, oh my gosh, I'm going 00:03:41.069 --> 00:03:45.069 to be taken over by a robot. What would your 00:03:45.069 --> 00:03:47.430 stance be on that, all the talk about LinkedIn? 00:03:47.569 --> 00:03:50.770 What do you think? Oh, of course. I mean, I think... 00:03:50.840 --> 00:03:53.699 everybody is feeling that same level of insecurity 00:03:53.699 --> 00:03:57.199 right now and including folks who are in data 00:03:57.199 --> 00:03:59.979 roles, including folks who are creating AI products 00:03:59.979 --> 00:04:02.939 or even thinking is an AI going to build this 00:04:02.939 --> 00:04:05.900 AI product for me and replace me at some point. 00:04:06.479 --> 00:04:08.740 So I think we're certainly not alone, although 00:04:08.740 --> 00:04:11.060 in very different industries. I'm kind of interested 00:04:11.060 --> 00:04:18.360 to see your kind of take on not only AI in marketing 00:04:18.360 --> 00:04:20.819 as, you know, all the content kind of generation 00:04:20.819 --> 00:04:23.019 that it's doing, which I'm sure is providing 00:04:23.019 --> 00:04:25.639 some of the insecurities there, but also from 00:04:25.639 --> 00:04:28.699 a data point of view, whether or not, you know, 00:04:28.939 --> 00:04:34.579 you're using any AI in that aspect of what you're 00:04:34.579 --> 00:04:37.000 trying to take from marketing as well. Yeah, 00:04:37.060 --> 00:04:39.810 no, that's a really interesting question. So 00:04:39.810 --> 00:04:42.649 the way I use AI is very much in the chat GPT 00:04:42.649 --> 00:04:44.810 space. So you'll probably blow my mind. There's 00:04:44.810 --> 00:04:48.170 way more to it than that. But yeah, so I'll use 00:04:48.170 --> 00:04:50.370 it to validate an idea. So if I've got an idea 00:04:50.370 --> 00:04:53.649 and I wanna make that come to life, I'll use 00:04:53.649 --> 00:04:58.470 it just to, I almost get the AI to ask me questions 00:04:58.470 --> 00:05:00.899 back. So. have you thought about this? Have you 00:05:00.899 --> 00:05:03.100 missed out this opportunity for this target audience? 00:05:03.620 --> 00:05:05.860 And also to validate stats. I literally used 00:05:05.860 --> 00:05:07.839 it before this phone call to work out how many 00:05:07.839 --> 00:05:10.899 women are in marketing, as opposed to men. 62 00:05:10.899 --> 00:05:14.139 % of women hold marketing roles. But just things 00:05:14.139 --> 00:05:15.920 like that. So I'm just using it as quick fire. 00:05:16.079 --> 00:05:17.759 Let me just double check this stat. Let me just 00:05:17.759 --> 00:05:22.660 work out this. And also I'll use it to represent 00:05:22.660 --> 00:05:24.540 sources as well. So like say, for example, I 00:05:24.540 --> 00:05:27.019 want to say something, but I want to... not say 00:05:27.019 --> 00:05:31.100 I found it on TikTok. I pulled this from this 00:05:31.100 --> 00:05:33.660 source, I'll ask ChatGPT to help that. So it'd 00:05:33.660 --> 00:05:35.439 be really interesting to know from your standpoint 00:05:35.439 --> 00:05:38.579 what else is out there other than ChatGPT and 00:05:38.579 --> 00:05:41.720 what is it that you do on a day to day? Oh, absolutely. 00:05:43.139 --> 00:05:46.019 I mean, in generative BI, to put it quite simply, 00:05:46.379 --> 00:05:50.180 we have the GenAI large language model conversational 00:05:50.180 --> 00:05:53.019 interface that you have with ChatGPT, but we 00:05:53.019 --> 00:05:56.550 put that over your traditional BI products. So 00:05:56.550 --> 00:06:00.370 instead of maybe getting like a summary or just 00:06:00.370 --> 00:06:03.009 pure kind of text -based output or even image 00:06:03.009 --> 00:06:06.470 generation, which we see really commonly out 00:06:06.470 --> 00:06:09.269 there in general population, you're actually 00:06:09.269 --> 00:06:12.689 seeing that the generative BI rather than the 00:06:12.689 --> 00:06:16.149 generative AI can analyze the data for you and 00:06:16.149 --> 00:06:19.730 can tell you a lot more stories about data and 00:06:19.730 --> 00:06:23.000 can do it in an instant. So instead of having 00:06:23.000 --> 00:06:25.699 to be an analyst and taking a long time to create 00:06:25.699 --> 00:06:30.899 an analytics package and to create a narrative 00:06:30.899 --> 00:06:33.680 around that, some of the tools that we're seeing 00:06:33.680 --> 00:06:36.579 from some of the big tech players are allowing 00:06:36.579 --> 00:06:40.459 you to do that in seconds instead of days. So 00:06:40.459 --> 00:06:44.860 really cool in terms of technology, but it's 00:06:44.860 --> 00:06:47.899 also in its infancy. So I don't imagine that 00:06:47.899 --> 00:06:49.620 that's going to be something super widespread. 00:06:50.139 --> 00:06:54.019 just yet, but yeah, we're at the forefront and 00:06:54.019 --> 00:06:56.680 doing our best to create some pretty cool stuff 00:06:56.680 --> 00:07:00.560 for our stakeholders. I'm sure that, you know, 00:07:01.699 --> 00:07:04.540 for your applications as well, would that make 00:07:04.540 --> 00:07:06.819 your life easier? Yeah, I mean, as soon as you 00:07:06.819 --> 00:07:08.300 said that, then I was like, wow, I mean, I've 00:07:08.300 --> 00:07:11.019 worked in marketing now for like 15 years. And 00:07:11.019 --> 00:07:13.000 the amount of times I've looked at an Excel sheet, 00:07:13.019 --> 00:07:14.759 I've just been like, what is this trying to tell 00:07:14.759 --> 00:07:18.040 me? Because And naturally you would think if 00:07:18.040 --> 00:07:20.000 you are kind of running a marketing campaign 00:07:20.000 --> 00:07:22.100 or you've been briefed with getting something 00:07:22.100 --> 00:07:23.759 out there, the first thing you would do is look 00:07:23.759 --> 00:07:25.600 at what data you already have and how you can 00:07:25.600 --> 00:07:29.779 make that into a story and spin that into X percent 00:07:29.779 --> 00:07:32.399 of whatever in order to make an angle for any 00:07:32.399 --> 00:07:35.279 PR or any marketing pieces. So you might at times 00:07:35.279 --> 00:07:37.639 are looking at a set of data thinking, how can 00:07:37.639 --> 00:07:39.899 I make this tell a story? Which it sounds like 00:07:39.899 --> 00:07:42.300 you're looking at tools that literally will pull 00:07:42.300 --> 00:07:43.879 out those stories for you and pull out those 00:07:43.879 --> 00:07:46.350 connections. And that is just so exciting. It's 00:07:46.350 --> 00:07:48.870 mind blowing. And I also think from the marketing 00:07:48.870 --> 00:07:50.910 space, we live in this world where there's so 00:07:50.910 --> 00:07:53.230 much pressure on us to get results. There's so 00:07:53.230 --> 00:07:57.930 much emphasis on almost like marketing just being 00:07:57.930 --> 00:08:00.589 social media. So let's create this amazing TikTok, 00:08:01.269 --> 00:08:03.269 but then you're not having enough time because 00:08:03.269 --> 00:08:06.129 you're constantly chasing the viral moments, 00:08:06.430 --> 00:08:09.069 the trends. There's not enough time in the data, 00:08:09.069 --> 00:08:11.529 analyze the data. So if there's tools that you're 00:08:11.529 --> 00:08:13.810 talking about that it does that for you at click 00:08:13.810 --> 00:08:16.029 of a button, then naturally we're just going 00:08:16.029 --> 00:08:17.689 to start getting better marketing results because 00:08:17.689 --> 00:08:19.850 we can still chase the trends and the viral moments, 00:08:19.850 --> 00:08:22.329 but we can support that with actual understanding 00:08:22.329 --> 00:08:24.709 of the data and what's going to land in terms 00:08:24.709 --> 00:08:26.769 of seasonality and getting better results. So 00:08:26.769 --> 00:08:29.170 that is like so exciting. I can speak from everybody 00:08:29.170 --> 00:08:32.889 in the marketing world. I'm absolutely buzzing 00:08:32.889 --> 00:08:36.429 that you said that Rebecca, because that thankfully 00:08:36.429 --> 00:08:39.610 for me just confirms what we're trying to do 00:08:39.610 --> 00:08:42.899 within my department. We're very much wanting 00:08:42.899 --> 00:08:46.279 to put the, the owners back on folks within the 00:08:46.279 --> 00:08:48.600 business, folks within their area of expertise 00:08:48.600 --> 00:08:50.620 to do the things that they're experts at without 00:08:50.620 --> 00:08:53.820 having to spend so much time crunching numbers. 00:08:54.340 --> 00:08:56.460 And obviously you're going to still need folks 00:08:56.460 --> 00:08:58.980 who can do that. So we need folks to verify output, 00:08:59.139 --> 00:09:02.779 do the more complicated stuff. But if your, if 00:09:02.779 --> 00:09:06.019 your day role is being a marketing expert, but 00:09:06.019 --> 00:09:09.100 you have to spend a lot of hours analyzing stuff, 00:09:09.600 --> 00:09:12.480 that's absolutely where. this kind of generative 00:09:12.480 --> 00:09:15.019 BI solution can come in and just make, hopefully 00:09:15.019 --> 00:09:17.559 make your life a lot easier. Yeah. And I think 00:09:17.559 --> 00:09:21.059 that's it. I think, again, like I say, I'm talking 00:09:21.059 --> 00:09:22.879 a lot about LinkedIn, but it's where a lot of 00:09:22.879 --> 00:09:24.779 marketing people spend their time and offload. 00:09:25.440 --> 00:09:28.000 concerns. And I think there is a natural concern 00:09:28.000 --> 00:09:29.740 of, oh my gosh, but if I'm not spending hours 00:09:29.740 --> 00:09:31.179 looking at data spreadsheet, they're not going 00:09:31.179 --> 00:09:33.600 to need me in a full -time role. But then it's, 00:09:33.600 --> 00:09:36.080 I think the kind of luxury of marketing is that 00:09:36.080 --> 00:09:37.860 you might have all this data behind you. You 00:09:37.860 --> 00:09:40.279 might have all this kind of automation, but if 00:09:40.279 --> 00:09:41.919 you've not got a story and you've not got the 00:09:41.919 --> 00:09:45.460 human appeal, it's never going to land as cliche 00:09:45.460 --> 00:09:48.240 as it is people by people. And I think it's stepping 00:09:48.240 --> 00:09:51.759 away from, oh my goodness, this is a warning 00:09:51.759 --> 00:09:55.549 sign that these... automations are getting cleverer 00:09:55.549 --> 00:09:58.789 and better equipped but seeing it as a way that 00:09:58.789 --> 00:10:00.529 how can that help you but knowing that you're 00:10:00.529 --> 00:10:02.789 always going to be secure if you can sell a story 00:10:02.789 --> 00:10:06.690 on personality as well as data and backing. So 00:10:06.690 --> 00:10:09.250 yeah, no, it is an exciting space to be in but 00:10:09.250 --> 00:10:12.389 it doesn't stop the natural concerns of all the 00:10:12.389 --> 00:10:14.529 taking over the world. I'd like to think they 00:10:14.529 --> 00:10:17.690 can't always tell a really personal story and 00:10:17.690 --> 00:10:21.710 get that kind of really emotive language. which 00:10:21.710 --> 00:10:23.649 we're looking for, which I think chat GPT falls 00:10:23.649 --> 00:10:26.129 short sometimes. I think you can really tell 00:10:26.129 --> 00:10:28.850 when you can see a chat GPT post over an actual 00:10:28.850 --> 00:10:31.269 person's post with spelling mistakes and emotion 00:10:31.269 --> 00:10:35.509 and just that personal element that we all crave. 00:10:36.350 --> 00:10:38.809 Oh, yeah. And I mean, the way that a large language 00:10:38.809 --> 00:10:41.909 model works, right, is it gives you the most 00:10:41.909 --> 00:10:45.330 likely next word within a sentence. It's all 00:10:45.810 --> 00:10:48.490 really cool statistics. I say really cool statistics 00:10:48.490 --> 00:10:49.990 as if many other people will think statistics 00:10:49.990 --> 00:10:52.669 is cool, but in my point of view, it's really 00:10:52.669 --> 00:10:54.690 cool statistics. I love that Rebecca, you're 00:10:54.690 --> 00:10:59.590 on the same page as me here. The nature of statistics 00:10:59.590 --> 00:11:02.549 is never going to be 100 % accurate and because 00:11:02.549 --> 00:11:04.370 it's going to always give you that most likely 00:11:04.370 --> 00:11:05.830 next thing, it means that they're all going to 00:11:05.830 --> 00:11:09.009 sound the same. From a marketing point of view 00:11:09.009 --> 00:11:11.809 or from an exact summary point of view in your 00:11:11.809 --> 00:11:15.629 world or my world, just relying on AI outputs, 00:11:15.730 --> 00:11:17.909 you're just going to create an echo chamber of 00:11:17.909 --> 00:11:20.169 everything sounding the same. So like you say, 00:11:20.210 --> 00:11:24.289 having that personal input absolutely is still 00:11:24.289 --> 00:11:27.389 that USP of what humans can bring to it and is 00:11:27.389 --> 00:11:31.509 why AI, as excited as I am by it, being in an 00:11:31.509 --> 00:11:34.950 AI department is certainly for the foreseeable, 00:11:35.049 --> 00:11:38.490 always going to be a partner to help you do things 00:11:38.490 --> 00:11:42.590 for you rather than, you know, replacing entirely 00:11:42.590 --> 00:11:46.049 what we can do as people. Yeah, that's so exciting. 00:11:46.129 --> 00:11:49.350 I think one grey area for me as well is the like 00:11:49.350 --> 00:11:51.889 learning element. So I'll just say a statement 00:11:51.889 --> 00:11:54.190 now and you can correct me and absolutely elaborate 00:11:54.190 --> 00:11:58.269 on it. I'll just go for it. So for me, GPT, am 00:11:58.269 --> 00:12:00.850 I under the impression that and is it the right 00:12:00.850 --> 00:12:02.990 impression to be under that every time I'm asking 00:12:02.990 --> 00:12:06.350 a question, is it learning kind of my skill set 00:12:06.350 --> 00:12:08.490 and my understanding in order to be more intuitive 00:12:08.490 --> 00:12:11.980 next time I ask a question, it's almost preempting 00:12:11.980 --> 00:12:14.799 what the answer is going to be based on my previous 00:12:14.799 --> 00:12:18.200 conversations with it. Yeah, I think so. Certainly 00:12:18.200 --> 00:12:23.179 some of the more external tools are using that 00:12:23.179 --> 00:12:26.039 kind of feedback loop of you saying this isn't 00:12:26.039 --> 00:12:28.879 right as an answer or you're giving feedback 00:12:28.879 --> 00:12:32.840 to help retrain it to give that more personalised 00:12:32.840 --> 00:12:35.759 experience. But again, I don't think it's ever 00:12:35.759 --> 00:12:39.720 going to quite be perfect, right? It will always 00:12:39.720 --> 00:12:43.019 be always have slight levels of imperfection. 00:12:43.500 --> 00:12:45.840 I think that it's quite interesting. We're in 00:12:45.840 --> 00:12:49.500 a state of the world where we're constantly recommended 00:12:49.500 --> 00:12:51.799 things and everything is so hyper -personalized 00:12:51.799 --> 00:12:54.679 that with AI coming in, it's almost doing the 00:12:54.679 --> 00:12:57.019 opposite and making everything quite generic, 00:12:57.159 --> 00:12:59.179 right? So from a marketing point of view, that's 00:12:59.179 --> 00:13:02.100 got to be a challenge for yourselves where you've, 00:13:02.200 --> 00:13:03.899 I'm sure hyper -personalization is something 00:13:03.899 --> 00:13:07.679 that is quite difficult for you guys to have 00:13:07.679 --> 00:13:11.649 to... get through. And so I'm wondering whether 00:13:11.649 --> 00:13:13.750 or not that's still a challenge or if AI is helping 00:13:13.750 --> 00:13:16.269 or hindering that. Yeah, that's such a good question. 00:13:16.389 --> 00:13:17.710 I was actually speaking to a client the other 00:13:17.710 --> 00:13:20.029 day about that, about how we've spent so much 00:13:20.029 --> 00:13:22.570 time in this space of personalization, everything 00:13:22.570 --> 00:13:24.830 should be personalized. And then now we're going 00:13:24.830 --> 00:13:28.190 back to this place of just anything for a quick 00:13:28.190 --> 00:13:31.610 win, anything for a sweeping response, which 00:13:31.610 --> 00:13:35.129 obviously AI helps with. But if I come back to 00:13:35.129 --> 00:13:38.539 kind of my almost passion, like soul's purpose 00:13:38.539 --> 00:13:40.720 when it comes to marketing is that it's almost 00:13:40.720 --> 00:13:43.559 as though we're in a position now where marketing 00:13:43.559 --> 00:13:46.700 is deemed as a luxury and it's, if you can afford 00:13:46.700 --> 00:13:48.720 it, great. But if you can't afford it, get rid. 00:13:49.220 --> 00:13:52.659 And I think it's a hard space to be in, in the 00:13:52.659 --> 00:13:55.440 sense of maybe you just need to refine what it 00:13:55.440 --> 00:13:57.480 is you're doing from a marketing perspective. 00:13:57.559 --> 00:14:00.240 And if AI can help make that better, whether 00:14:00.240 --> 00:14:03.019 that is coming away from this personalization, 00:14:03.259 --> 00:14:06.379 but going more automated. If that's going to 00:14:06.379 --> 00:14:08.080 help you get better marketing results in the 00:14:08.080 --> 00:14:09.600 time that you've got and the resource you've 00:14:09.600 --> 00:14:12.500 got available, then it's just weighing up what's 00:14:12.500 --> 00:14:13.940 more important to you as a business, whether 00:14:13.940 --> 00:14:15.720 it's the personalization or getting things done 00:14:15.720 --> 00:14:18.059 quicker and within time and resource and infrastructure 00:14:18.059 --> 00:14:20.000 that you've got. Because a lot of businesses 00:14:20.000 --> 00:14:22.679 don't have the luxury to invest in more time 00:14:22.679 --> 00:14:24.179 when it comes to marketing. And unfortunately, 00:14:24.340 --> 00:14:27.960 we're seeing roles being lost. marketing departments 00:14:27.960 --> 00:14:30.019 being reduced. But yeah, I think it's just, it 00:14:30.019 --> 00:14:32.639 comes down to the person, especially on the marketing 00:14:32.639 --> 00:14:34.379 perspective, what's important to the business. 00:14:34.600 --> 00:14:36.220 Is it getting marketing results in a time that 00:14:36.220 --> 00:14:38.480 works or is it personalization that takes longer, 00:14:38.980 --> 00:14:40.679 but you're not going to be getting this kind 00:14:40.679 --> 00:14:46.080 of, this fixed flow of results through? Yeah, 00:14:46.399 --> 00:14:49.820 no, I absolutely appreciate that. And, you know, 00:14:49.919 --> 00:14:53.399 on that same scene with marketing almost being 00:14:53.399 --> 00:14:55.700 deemed as a luxury rather than a necessity for 00:14:55.700 --> 00:14:58.860 a lot of companies. Learning always falls into 00:14:58.860 --> 00:15:01.720 that bracket as well, right? It's one of the 00:15:01.720 --> 00:15:04.940 first things I've, in my experience, since joining 00:15:04.940 --> 00:15:06.600 the workforce, however many years ago, I don't 00:15:06.600 --> 00:15:08.659 really want to say on a public podcast, I'm joking, 00:15:09.220 --> 00:15:14.179 but learning also tends to take quite a cut, 00:15:14.179 --> 00:15:16.279 right? Well, yeah, I think it's so interesting 00:15:16.279 --> 00:15:19.139 talking about the AI and the mechanics of AI 00:15:19.139 --> 00:15:21.710 and how it can help, I think. It's so interesting 00:15:21.710 --> 00:15:23.269 as well to learn about the different ways of 00:15:23.269 --> 00:15:25.870 using AI to help our like everyday lives. And 00:15:25.870 --> 00:15:28.190 I don't know about you, Rachel, but I'm currently 00:15:28.190 --> 00:15:30.529 solo parenting for five weeks whilst my partner's 00:15:30.529 --> 00:15:34.929 working away on a big job. So I've got an almost 00:15:34.929 --> 00:15:36.950 two year old and a very, very hard work dog. 00:15:37.809 --> 00:15:40.629 So I actually am using AI to help me do some 00:15:40.629 --> 00:15:43.049 meal preps. I'm like going in there and I'm like, 00:15:43.269 --> 00:15:45.019 can you... prep me some meals that are going 00:15:45.019 --> 00:15:47.940 to be for one person, not going to leave wastage 00:15:47.940 --> 00:15:49.779 of food because it's really hard cooking for 00:15:49.779 --> 00:15:52.179 one. So I'm just using it in everyday life as 00:15:52.179 --> 00:15:53.919 well. So although I'm seeing the benefits of 00:15:53.919 --> 00:15:56.580 using it for my role in marketing, but also like 00:15:56.580 --> 00:15:59.440 just everyday life gets surviving. Like you can 00:15:59.440 --> 00:16:02.120 save me a weekly food shop plan and just do it 00:16:02.120 --> 00:16:06.279 for me within seconds. I'm loving that. Sorry, 00:16:07.120 --> 00:16:09.600 say that again. Do you use AI on a personal level? 00:16:09.929 --> 00:16:13.350 Oh, yeah. I think I use AI more than I realize, 00:16:13.370 --> 00:16:19.690 to be honest. I try and be a good, sustainable 00:16:19.690 --> 00:16:22.230 person and not use it instead of a Google search, 00:16:22.409 --> 00:16:25.629 but I do definitely still use it, especially 00:16:25.629 --> 00:16:29.389 to help me craft things and help with inspiration. 00:16:29.570 --> 00:16:32.330 I'm quite a numbers person. I come from a maths 00:16:32.330 --> 00:16:34.950 background, a data background, so if I'm trying 00:16:34.950 --> 00:16:40.519 to do a LinkedIn post or... If I'm trying to 00:16:40.519 --> 00:16:44.279 come up with something and create a LinkedIn 00:16:44.279 --> 00:16:46.299 post, which was, I think, the best example of 00:16:46.299 --> 00:16:48.480 that. If I'm trying to create a LinkedIn post, 00:16:48.580 --> 00:16:51.519 then I'll use it to help me structure it and 00:16:51.519 --> 00:16:54.399 to give feedback on whether or not this is useful 00:16:54.399 --> 00:16:57.559 or whether or not people will actually want to 00:16:57.559 --> 00:17:03.279 hear it. I definitely use it for that kind of 00:17:03.279 --> 00:17:05.829 point of view. I haven't used it for recipes. 00:17:05.990 --> 00:17:07.390 My husband's the one who does the cooking in 00:17:07.390 --> 00:17:11.710 the household. And I'll suggest maybe he tries 00:17:11.710 --> 00:17:15.210 some AI recipes. We'll see what we can come up 00:17:15.210 --> 00:17:17.910 with. Yeah, definitely do it. And then for like 00:17:17.910 --> 00:17:20.230 exercise plans as well. If I want like a low 00:17:20.230 --> 00:17:22.349 calorie recipe, I'll say, can you swap this out 00:17:22.349 --> 00:17:25.130 and make it low -cal? So I'm having all these 00:17:25.130 --> 00:17:27.509 conversations with ChatGPT and I'm like, what's 00:17:27.509 --> 00:17:30.549 the world come to? I'm like, let me just ask 00:17:30.549 --> 00:17:35.359 ChatGPT really quick. What I do, I do really 00:17:35.359 --> 00:17:37.539 like using, if I do a normal Google search, I 00:17:37.539 --> 00:17:40.500 do often just look at the Gemini summary that 00:17:40.500 --> 00:17:42.779 comes up rather than actually looking at the 00:17:42.779 --> 00:17:46.059 links. I wonder how Google's customers are enjoying 00:17:46.059 --> 00:17:49.099 people doing that and not getting the click throughs. 00:17:49.319 --> 00:17:52.619 But yeah, I definitely kind of do that a lot 00:17:52.619 --> 00:17:54.900 more often, I think, than using chat myself, 00:17:54.920 --> 00:17:57.500 because yeah, I try not to, unless I feel like 00:17:57.500 --> 00:17:59.599 I need an AI to really help me with something, 00:17:59.619 --> 00:18:03.279 I do try not to overuse it, right? Yeah, no, 00:18:03.319 --> 00:18:05.019 I think that's that's exactly it. You could definitely 00:18:05.019 --> 00:18:08.559 overuse it and become so reliant on it. But I 00:18:08.559 --> 00:18:10.000 think that's so interesting what you just said 00:18:10.000 --> 00:18:11.900 there. Like, for example, if I'm asking ChatTPT 00:18:11.900 --> 00:18:15.359 for a list of recipes, I'm not visiting the moneymaker 00:18:15.359 --> 00:18:18.240 pages of different e -commerce websites having 00:18:18.240 --> 00:18:20.119 recipes on there in order to catch audiences' 00:18:20.460 --> 00:18:23.099 intent and get them to purchase what they're 00:18:23.099 --> 00:18:24.880 selling. So that's so interesting, isn't it, 00:18:24.880 --> 00:18:26.380 to think that we're actually taking away the 00:18:26.380 --> 00:18:29.640 opportunity for businesses to grow. My mind's 00:18:29.640 --> 00:18:31.980 whirling now of like, I'm sure that the agencies 00:18:31.980 --> 00:18:34.140 out there or people who specialize in that, in 00:18:34.140 --> 00:18:36.299 ensuring that people still visit in third party 00:18:36.299 --> 00:18:38.420 websites and not just landing on ChatTPT and 00:18:38.420 --> 00:18:40.819 going nowhere else. But yeah, it's so interesting. 00:18:41.160 --> 00:18:43.640 I feel like, how do you find it working within 00:18:43.640 --> 00:18:44.980 data? Because I feel as though when I was doing 00:18:44.980 --> 00:18:47.019 my research ahead of the podcast, it's such an 00:18:47.019 --> 00:18:49.140 underrepresented space to be in when it comes 00:18:49.140 --> 00:18:52.160 to women in data. Do you find that? Is that relative 00:18:52.160 --> 00:18:57.059 to your role? Oh yeah, 100%. I'm in the AICOE, 00:18:57.079 --> 00:18:59.700 which couldn't be more of a central place for 00:18:59.700 --> 00:19:04.980 data and AI, right? And within my team, I'm the 00:19:04.980 --> 00:19:08.619 only woman in leadership, which comes with its 00:19:08.619 --> 00:19:11.359 challenges, right? It's nice to have other women 00:19:11.359 --> 00:19:13.740 to talk to. You know, I don't speak to as many 00:19:13.740 --> 00:19:15.460 in the day as I would like. So Rebecca, this 00:19:15.460 --> 00:19:17.339 is a nice treat for me on a Friday afternoon. 00:19:18.349 --> 00:19:20.789 privileged to be here and be that for woman for 00:19:20.789 --> 00:19:25.509 you. No, absolutely. And, you know, I've only 00:19:25.509 --> 00:19:28.349 been in this leadership position since officially 00:19:28.349 --> 00:19:31.250 since October last year. And I've definitely 00:19:31.250 --> 00:19:35.369 noticed that the way in which I communicate and 00:19:35.369 --> 00:19:38.710 the way in which I am performing within that, 00:19:38.710 --> 00:19:41.490 that space. is changing and I don't know if that's 00:19:41.490 --> 00:19:43.430 because I'm developing more as a leader or if 00:19:43.430 --> 00:19:45.869 it's because I'm just becoming more used to being 00:19:45.869 --> 00:19:49.509 in an all male background or all male team. Whereas 00:19:49.509 --> 00:19:52.890 if you're a woman in data, you're kind of used 00:19:52.890 --> 00:19:54.910 to often being one of few women in the room. 00:19:55.069 --> 00:19:57.990 I'm pretty sure it's something like one in nine 00:19:57.990 --> 00:20:06.710 people within a room in data are female. And 00:20:06.710 --> 00:20:09.130 yeah, that comes with its challenges, right? 00:20:09.190 --> 00:20:11.750 But I think that the most important thing that 00:20:11.750 --> 00:20:15.990 we can do as women in data is to pave the way 00:20:15.990 --> 00:20:19.910 for more women to have data careers and to join 00:20:19.910 --> 00:20:23.369 us on our journeys. I'm very conscious that being 00:20:23.369 --> 00:20:25.670 the only woman on my leadership team, and by 00:20:25.670 --> 00:20:28.630 the way, this is not something that any of my 00:20:28.630 --> 00:20:31.029 male peers or my bosses have made me feel directly. 00:20:31.089 --> 00:20:32.890 This is not direct feedback that I've received. 00:20:33.279 --> 00:20:35.579 But I certainly feel a level of responsibility 00:20:35.579 --> 00:20:39.039 that me performing well isn't just about me performing 00:20:39.039 --> 00:20:42.660 well. If I perform well, I show that women can 00:20:42.660 --> 00:20:46.579 also perform well. I love that. Yeah. I feel 00:20:46.579 --> 00:20:48.140 like there's always that hidden pressure, isn't 00:20:48.140 --> 00:20:51.019 there, in a woman in a man's world, so to speak. 00:20:51.019 --> 00:20:52.500 And I don't mean that negatively. I just mean 00:20:52.500 --> 00:20:55.519 that in, like you say, one in nine. And we have 00:20:55.519 --> 00:20:58.240 that hidden almost like pressure, don't we, to 00:20:58.240 --> 00:21:01.369 represent. And I think it is a... wrongly or 00:21:01.369 --> 00:21:03.210 rightly you feel like you ought to lead the way 00:21:03.210 --> 00:21:05.430 and shine the light for the the upcoming women 00:21:05.430 --> 00:21:07.750 behind you that it's okay you can do well and 00:21:07.750 --> 00:21:11.190 you do fit perfectly within this space that immediately 00:21:11.190 --> 00:21:13.250 when people think about data or tech we think 00:21:13.250 --> 00:21:16.309 of males and then I just think, well, it doesn't 00:21:16.309 --> 00:21:17.849 have to be the case because we've got Rachel 00:21:17.849 --> 00:21:21.069 out there flying the flag. Absolutely. Angie, 00:21:21.210 --> 00:21:23.630 Rebecca, you know, we're all flying this flag 00:21:23.630 --> 00:21:26.230 together, right? We're fighting the same fight. 00:21:26.309 --> 00:21:28.430 I mean, I was quite impressed earlier when you 00:21:28.430 --> 00:21:32.230 said, did you say 62 % of marketing roles are 00:21:32.230 --> 00:21:35.549 filled with women? Like that must be, I would 00:21:35.549 --> 00:21:38.190 love for us to do like a Freaky Friday. and not 00:21:38.190 --> 00:21:40.069 just have a chat on a Friday, but actually do 00:21:40.069 --> 00:21:41.869 a Freaky Friday and be in each other's shoes 00:21:41.869 --> 00:21:44.430 for a day or two. I'd love to know what that 00:21:44.430 --> 00:21:45.930 feels like because I don't think I've ever had 00:21:45.930 --> 00:21:48.490 that in my career. Yeah, it's so interesting. 00:21:48.650 --> 00:21:51.069 It's like you are. I find a lot of marketers 00:21:51.069 --> 00:21:52.609 that I speak to are women, but I think that's 00:21:52.609 --> 00:21:54.589 just naturally almost like an echo chamber of 00:21:54.589 --> 00:21:57.410 what is I'm looking for. But then when I was 00:21:57.410 --> 00:21:59.529 doing some more research into that, there's actually 00:21:59.529 --> 00:22:02.470 a stat that there's a difference between those 00:22:02.470 --> 00:22:07.019 within, generally speaking, 62 % of people within 00:22:07.019 --> 00:22:09.339 marketing roles are female. However, when it 00:22:09.339 --> 00:22:11.579 comes to the junior senior exec conversation, 00:22:12.079 --> 00:22:15.299 it actually changes to 69 % being in junior roles. 00:22:15.440 --> 00:22:16.940 So actually, when it comes to the leadership 00:22:16.940 --> 00:22:20.180 teams, it's predominantly men. And that to me 00:22:20.180 --> 00:22:22.579 was just eye opening because I just think, wow, 00:22:22.799 --> 00:22:26.660 it's almost as if, for whatever reason, women 00:22:27.200 --> 00:22:29.559 kind of enter their careers, the full of passion, 00:22:29.740 --> 00:22:32.039 full of enthusiasm, sole focus on careers, and 00:22:32.039 --> 00:22:33.799 then we get distracted for one reason or another, 00:22:33.880 --> 00:22:36.539 just natural growth and progression on a personal 00:22:36.539 --> 00:22:38.900 level. And then do we get to a point where we 00:22:38.900 --> 00:22:41.220 kind of settle or we don't push that kind of 00:22:41.220 --> 00:22:43.240 invisible ceiling further to get to those leadership 00:22:43.240 --> 00:22:46.059 roles? And so when I saw that stat on paper in 00:22:46.059 --> 00:22:49.039 front of me, I was like, it's so kind of relative 00:22:49.039 --> 00:22:50.920 to that's actually what's happening. But yeah, 00:22:51.039 --> 00:22:54.759 it's an interesting one that do we... not pushed 00:22:54.759 --> 00:22:56.660 that further to get to that leadership role. 00:22:57.099 --> 00:22:58.960 And I mean, personally speaking, I've been in 00:22:58.960 --> 00:23:01.119 junior roles in marketing and being rooms surrounded 00:23:01.119 --> 00:23:03.099 by men and never felt like I could have a voice. 00:23:03.500 --> 00:23:05.819 I've been in leadership roles in marketing, and 00:23:05.819 --> 00:23:07.480 being in rooms where I've had a little bit more 00:23:07.480 --> 00:23:09.339 confidence because I'm on the same level of them, 00:23:09.539 --> 00:23:11.259 but still being in positions where I've been 00:23:11.259 --> 00:23:13.640 spoken over, or I've been told, Oh, I'll just 00:23:13.640 --> 00:23:15.680 answer for Rebecca. And it's like, well, no, 00:23:15.880 --> 00:23:18.779 like, is that male female thing is that Is that 00:23:18.779 --> 00:23:21.619 evident of someone believing that because they're 00:23:21.619 --> 00:23:23.420 in a leadership role and male that they've got 00:23:23.420 --> 00:23:25.819 more say than a female? I don't know, but it's 00:23:25.819 --> 00:23:28.400 just the things you come across in your careers 00:23:28.400 --> 00:23:30.400 as a woman is completely different to what a 00:23:30.400 --> 00:23:34.519 male would come across. Absolutely. It's so challenging. 00:23:35.240 --> 00:23:37.779 And especially as you become more senior, you 00:23:37.779 --> 00:23:40.019 feel more obligated to try and call it out as 00:23:40.019 --> 00:23:43.220 well, right? So you want to try and role model, 00:23:43.380 --> 00:23:46.609 but you also want to help other women progress. 00:23:46.630 --> 00:23:49.309 You also want to call things out whilst not being 00:23:49.309 --> 00:23:52.529 seen as disruptive. It's a bit of a storm, right, 00:23:52.569 --> 00:23:56.430 to try and navigate through. I mean, one of my 00:23:56.430 --> 00:23:59.089 favorite things I think that I experienced very 00:23:59.089 --> 00:24:02.329 early in my career was this is when I was working 00:24:02.329 --> 00:24:06.259 for a tech company. We had an external woman 00:24:06.259 --> 00:24:10.319 come in and do like a woman in tech conversation 00:24:10.319 --> 00:24:15.160 with quite a few of us in the audience. And she'd 00:24:15.160 --> 00:24:16.960 worked with the likes of Bill Gates and Jeff 00:24:16.960 --> 00:24:19.960 Bezos, you know, some ridiculously senior guys. 00:24:20.039 --> 00:24:22.519 Couldn't get more senior in tech, right? And 00:24:22.519 --> 00:24:25.079 my favorite thing that she said was, quite frankly, 00:24:25.359 --> 00:24:28.200 none of them impressed me all that much. So if 00:24:28.200 --> 00:24:30.099 you sit there and think that they weren't that 00:24:30.099 --> 00:24:33.259 impressive, then that really helps you realize 00:24:33.259 --> 00:24:36.200 that you are also an expert. You have that seat 00:24:36.200 --> 00:24:39.000 at the table that you deserve and they're just 00:24:39.000 --> 00:24:44.059 a guy. You're just a person as well, right? And 00:24:44.059 --> 00:24:47.400 I brought that into a recent meeting I had. I 00:24:47.400 --> 00:24:49.500 had a meeting with someone very, very senior 00:24:49.500 --> 00:24:53.200 at Lloyds Banking Group and my boss was trying 00:24:53.200 --> 00:24:55.900 to kind of coach me and say, you know, this is 00:24:55.900 --> 00:24:57.279 senior person. We've got to make sure we do it 00:24:57.279 --> 00:24:58.859 right, but don't worry about it. And I was like, 00:24:58.859 --> 00:25:02.210 he's just a guy. And my boss is like, I mean, 00:25:02.390 --> 00:25:04.690 that's a great way of putting it. He is just 00:25:04.690 --> 00:25:06.289 a guy. He's a senior guy. So we want to do the 00:25:06.289 --> 00:25:08.490 right thing. But, you know, I think that having 00:25:08.490 --> 00:25:11.190 that kind of perspective can really help. But 00:25:11.190 --> 00:25:12.650 when you're in the moment, right, when you're 00:25:12.650 --> 00:25:14.049 in the moment, when you're in the room and you're 00:25:14.049 --> 00:25:18.009 being and you're being spoken over or or whatever, 00:25:18.910 --> 00:25:21.890 that kind of feeling and that pre -thought can 00:25:21.890 --> 00:25:24.650 very Much leave is quite quickly, can't it? But 00:25:24.650 --> 00:25:26.690 as long as we keep reminding ourselves of that, 00:25:26.890 --> 00:25:29.210 that can hopefully help. 100%. We all put our 00:25:29.210 --> 00:25:31.029 pants on one leg at a time, don't we? Let's be 00:25:31.029 --> 00:25:35.730 honest. Absolutely. We were all babies at one 00:25:35.730 --> 00:25:38.950 point. Yeah, 100%. And I think that's it. I think 00:25:38.950 --> 00:25:41.589 it's funny how I have a very similar approach 00:25:41.589 --> 00:25:43.750 when it comes to marketing. So I'll work with... 00:25:43.609 --> 00:25:45.670 B2B businesses and they'll say, oh, we don't 00:25:45.670 --> 00:25:47.150 want to be on TikTok. We don't want to go on 00:25:47.150 --> 00:25:49.710 Instagram or we don't, then our target audiences 00:25:49.710 --> 00:25:51.609 isn't there. I just think at the end of the day, 00:25:51.670 --> 00:25:53.230 we're all human. We're all scrolling at the end 00:25:53.230 --> 00:25:55.349 of the day. And like when you was talking there 00:25:55.349 --> 00:25:58.349 about how they're just a guy, like I think it's 00:25:58.349 --> 00:26:00.390 almost like taking away the meaning of, okay, 00:26:00.390 --> 00:26:03.670 they've got senior leader in their title or they're 00:26:03.670 --> 00:26:05.450 running a business, but we're all still human. 00:26:05.589 --> 00:26:08.670 We're all still doing the same things every day. 00:26:08.789 --> 00:26:10.950 Like we all are just trying to survive out here. 00:26:10.970 --> 00:26:14.849 Like, let's be honest. I think it is whenever 00:26:14.849 --> 00:26:16.410 you speak to anyone, as long as you speak to 00:26:16.410 --> 00:26:18.390 them with respect and understanding and you're 00:26:18.390 --> 00:26:20.549 just trying to articulate your point, then what 00:26:20.549 --> 00:26:24.269 can go wrong? Yeah, absolutely. Oh, yeah, we 00:26:24.269 --> 00:26:25.970 just had a question through, which is we live 00:26:25.970 --> 00:26:28.009 in a data age where we've had more data than 00:26:28.009 --> 00:26:30.849 we've ever had. How do we find the signal in 00:26:30.849 --> 00:26:33.789 the noise? I don't know how you interpretate 00:26:33.789 --> 00:26:36.170 that question, Rachel. Yeah, it's a very good 00:26:36.170 --> 00:26:39.130 question. I think that we've got a lot of data, 00:26:39.150 --> 00:26:41.690 but it doesn't necessarily mean it's of quality, 00:26:41.710 --> 00:26:45.440 right? And I think that's an easy trap that we 00:26:45.440 --> 00:26:47.599 can fall into is we've got so much data that 00:26:47.599 --> 00:26:51.000 can help give us, be it marketing signals or 00:26:51.000 --> 00:26:54.640 something else, right? To put it into your perspective, 00:26:54.759 --> 00:26:57.539 Rebecca, but really it's the whether or not the 00:26:57.539 --> 00:27:00.160 quality is there is the important thing. And 00:27:00.160 --> 00:27:03.519 that really, I think, makes a huge difference, 00:27:03.859 --> 00:27:05.500 particularly in the applications that I'm doing 00:27:05.500 --> 00:27:08.339 and creating general TBI products. People think 00:27:08.339 --> 00:27:10.420 that AI is going to fix data quality issues. 00:27:10.819 --> 00:27:15.329 People think that Data quality is just having 00:27:15.329 --> 00:27:17.950 enough rows in a data set, right? But it's not, 00:27:18.109 --> 00:27:20.509 it's about the ethics behind it. There's so much 00:27:20.509 --> 00:27:23.529 to data quality. I'm not sure if you've got some 00:27:23.529 --> 00:27:25.490 experience with this, Rebecca, within the marketing 00:27:25.490 --> 00:27:27.930 world, but I'd hedge my bets that you do, right? 00:27:28.470 --> 00:27:31.849 Yeah, 100%. And I think data quality is so interesting. 00:27:32.349 --> 00:27:35.369 So I, at one point in my career, worked in PR. 00:27:35.490 --> 00:27:37.289 So we would work on press releases and we would 00:27:37.289 --> 00:27:39.049 literally just throw out a Google consumer survey 00:27:39.049 --> 00:27:41.930 and ask for data on a certain subject. And we 00:27:41.930 --> 00:27:44.109 put that into a press release and we'd send that 00:27:44.109 --> 00:27:47.509 out to the masses of the press world and everyone 00:27:47.509 --> 00:27:49.230 would want to validate the data. So how many 00:27:49.230 --> 00:27:51.089 people did you ask? What survey tool did you 00:27:51.089 --> 00:27:53.809 use? Did it go to the UK only? And there was 00:27:53.809 --> 00:27:56.509 so much validation behind even trying to get 00:27:56.509 --> 00:27:58.950 that press release live within the media. And 00:27:58.950 --> 00:28:02.589 I just think now, especially from the marketing 00:28:02.589 --> 00:28:04.230 perspective, if you're ever working on a data 00:28:04.230 --> 00:28:07.849 set and you just, I don't know, said to ChatGPT, 00:28:07.990 --> 00:28:10.400 how do you determine this stat? Is that going 00:28:10.400 --> 00:28:12.559 to then stand up when you're having those conversations 00:28:12.559 --> 00:28:14.279 with the media, with the press, and they're questioning, 00:28:14.480 --> 00:28:16.160 where did that data come from? Can you find the 00:28:16.160 --> 00:28:19.119 source? And I think that data quality is so important 00:28:19.119 --> 00:28:21.680 when it comes to marketing or selling a product, 00:28:22.180 --> 00:28:25.220 especially when it's almost like, I'm struggling 00:28:25.220 --> 00:28:27.819 to find the word, but so for example, with collision, 00:28:28.200 --> 00:28:31.460 if you're trying to say your stats behind collision 00:28:31.460 --> 00:28:34.130 and it's not reputable, it's not. sourced properly, 00:28:34.210 --> 00:28:36.869 it's not come from a decent quality, and then 00:28:36.869 --> 00:28:39.410 you're selling that product to the common consumer. 00:28:39.650 --> 00:28:41.450 There's this integrity there that's not followed 00:28:41.450 --> 00:28:44.009 through. So I think data quality is so important 00:28:44.009 --> 00:28:46.769 when it comes to marketing and sales and consumer 00:28:46.769 --> 00:28:50.130 relationships and how you validate that. Again, 00:28:50.130 --> 00:28:52.670 I think this comes down to a learning opportunity 00:28:52.670 --> 00:28:55.670 for people within marketing. So you'll have junior 00:28:55.670 --> 00:28:57.569 marketers thinking, let's get our story out. 00:28:57.609 --> 00:28:59.809 Let's just ask ChatTPT for this stat or this 00:28:59.809 --> 00:29:02.740 piece of data and see what comes out. But an 00:29:02.740 --> 00:29:04.799 actual experienced marketer with knowledge and 00:29:04.799 --> 00:29:06.980 understanding of the AI world, which we're all 00:29:06.980 --> 00:29:09.380 still learning, would never use that as a way 00:29:09.380 --> 00:29:11.519 to market. You'd validate it with your own data. 00:29:11.940 --> 00:29:14.519 You would most likely start within your own data 00:29:14.519 --> 00:29:18.480 bank. So rather than asking third party for data, 00:29:18.519 --> 00:29:20.259 have a look at what you've got in your toolkit 00:29:20.259 --> 00:29:22.640 already. Have you got seasonality data? Have 00:29:22.640 --> 00:29:25.019 you got feedback from the sales team of when 00:29:25.019 --> 00:29:26.640 something boomed on the website? Are you looking 00:29:26.640 --> 00:29:29.420 at your own website analytics? Like the quality 00:29:29.420 --> 00:29:31.630 of the data should start at home. And if you 00:29:31.630 --> 00:29:34.289 can validate it because it's your own data, then 00:29:34.289 --> 00:29:35.829 you're going to have a stronger story to tell. 00:29:36.029 --> 00:29:38.529 But yeah, that is scary when it comes to the 00:29:38.529 --> 00:29:41.349 quality of the data. And I think in terms of 00:29:41.349 --> 00:29:43.390 finding the noise and finding the right noise, 00:29:43.950 --> 00:29:45.730 I think it all comes down to your purpose, your 00:29:45.730 --> 00:29:47.930 why. From a marketing perspective, going back 00:29:47.930 --> 00:29:51.529 to that human element, if you're any kind of 00:29:51.529 --> 00:29:53.190 marketing material you put out there, it's all 00:29:53.190 --> 00:29:55.289 based on your purpose, your why, where did you 00:29:55.289 --> 00:29:59.450 start from, what you're trying to say. then your 00:29:59.450 --> 00:30:03.829 business should hold up in reputation if it's 00:30:03.829 --> 00:30:05.710 coming from the right place and the right integrity 00:30:05.710 --> 00:30:08.150 and not just because you're hoping to get a quick 00:30:08.150 --> 00:30:11.490 viral video out there or faking a stat just to 00:30:11.490 --> 00:30:13.730 get a click. Like, I'd hate to think that people 00:30:13.730 --> 00:30:16.369 do that, I'm sure they do. But yeah, I just think 00:30:16.369 --> 00:30:18.609 it always comes back down to the why you're doing 00:30:18.609 --> 00:30:20.490 something and then the quality of the data should 00:30:20.490 --> 00:30:24.690 represent that rather than quick fixes. Yeah, 00:30:24.809 --> 00:30:28.220 absolutely. We have a very similar challenge 00:30:28.220 --> 00:30:32.240 where, where I work. So I work for Lawyers Banking 00:30:32.240 --> 00:30:34.700 Group, right? So we've got a lot of customer 00:30:34.700 --> 00:30:37.039 data. That's a lot of sensitive customer data. 00:30:37.119 --> 00:30:39.420 So we have to make sure that the data we have 00:30:39.420 --> 00:30:42.980 is of high quality and is classified and governed 00:30:42.980 --> 00:30:47.240 and have all of these additional controls in 00:30:47.240 --> 00:30:50.099 place to make sure that we are operating in a 00:30:50.099 --> 00:30:54.579 really kind of safe and secure environment. absolutely 00:30:54.579 --> 00:30:58.000 data quality has to be at the forefront of what 00:30:58.000 --> 00:31:01.140 we do. Otherwise, it's that old analogy of if 00:31:01.140 --> 00:31:03.359 you put crap in, you'll get crap out, right? 00:31:04.640 --> 00:31:06.940 100%. So yeah, I feel like that's been so interesting. 00:31:07.019 --> 00:31:08.680 It's been eye -opening, definitely speaking to 00:31:08.680 --> 00:31:10.339 someone who's at the forefront of a tool that 00:31:10.339 --> 00:31:13.920 I use almost every day, or one of many future 00:31:13.920 --> 00:31:17.400 tools. But I think for me, for data and almost 00:31:17.400 --> 00:31:20.960 like... just as a final note in the marketing 00:31:20.960 --> 00:31:23.640 land of data would be that we need to invest 00:31:23.640 --> 00:31:26.599 in giving women who hold 62%, as we talked about 00:31:26.599 --> 00:31:29.640 throughout the podcast, of roles within marketing, 00:31:29.740 --> 00:31:32.900 just the space and the... the skill sets and 00:31:32.900 --> 00:31:35.119 the resource and the infrastructure in order 00:31:35.119 --> 00:31:37.519 to spend time in that space. So rather than just 00:31:37.519 --> 00:31:39.940 churning out lights on content for the sake of 00:31:39.940 --> 00:31:43.420 it, like let's allow them space and learning 00:31:43.420 --> 00:31:46.200 to develop their marketing abilities through 00:31:46.200 --> 00:31:49.099 data and what's available to them. Absolutely. 00:31:49.259 --> 00:31:53.500 I love that. Yeah. So I think my kind of final 00:31:53.500 --> 00:31:57.339 thoughts are we talked about data and AI a lot 00:31:57.339 --> 00:32:00.519 and for women in learning, something that I come 00:32:00.519 --> 00:32:03.839 across a lot is the imposter syndrome of getting 00:32:03.839 --> 00:32:07.819 into a data career. And I would say that right 00:32:07.819 --> 00:32:10.279 now, everybody in a data career is having some 00:32:10.279 --> 00:32:14.319 level of imposter syndrome thanks to AI. So we're 00:32:14.319 --> 00:32:17.019 no longer at a disadvantage naturally for having 00:32:17.019 --> 00:32:19.819 that imposter syndrome. Everyone is feeling it. 00:32:20.240 --> 00:32:23.799 This is a great opportunity to re -skill, up 00:32:23.799 --> 00:32:27.180 -skill and become an expert. There are so many 00:32:27.180 --> 00:32:30.059 things coming out there in the data and AI world 00:32:30.059 --> 00:32:32.799 that are new technologies that are really exciting 00:32:32.799 --> 00:32:36.700 and embracing them early and being at the forefront 00:32:36.700 --> 00:32:39.160 is going to be a very, very cool place to be. 00:32:39.200 --> 00:32:41.819 And I don't know when we'll have the next revolution. 00:32:42.000 --> 00:32:44.000 We're in the AI revolution now. Let's absolutely 00:32:44.000 --> 00:32:47.140 go for it. Yeah, 100%. Oh, thank you, Rachel. 00:32:47.299 --> 00:32:49.559 I really enjoyed that. Absolutely, Rebecca. It's 00:32:49.559 --> 00:32:52.799 great to meet you and to really understand from 00:32:52.799 --> 00:32:56.690 a specific... marketing perspective exactly where 00:32:56.690 --> 00:32:59.769 all of these kind of issues and challenges are 00:32:59.769 --> 00:33:02.829 coming from. I sit in the center, I have a slight 00:33:02.829 --> 00:33:06.430 idea, but actually hearing it from you has been 00:33:06.430 --> 00:33:09.029 super eye -opening. So thank you so much for 00:33:09.029 --> 00:33:12.750 your time today. Well, thank you. As Rachel and 00:33:12.750 --> 00:33:14.690 Rebecca closed their conversation, they left 00:33:14.690 --> 00:33:17.789 us with a clear message. AI isn't the end of 00:33:17.789 --> 00:33:21.309 human creativity. It's a new lens for it. The 00:33:21.309 --> 00:33:24.349 power of data and AI lies not in replacing people, 00:33:24.529 --> 00:33:27.210 but in amplifying what we do best. That's asking 00:33:27.210 --> 00:33:30.410 better questions, making smarter decisions and 00:33:30.410 --> 00:33:34.109 telling stories which connect. If you're rethinking 00:33:34.109 --> 00:33:36.690 how AI fits into your work, or how to use data 00:33:36.690 --> 00:33:38.930 without losing the human voice, we hope this 00:33:38.930 --> 00:33:42.349 episode will stay with you. Both of our guests 00:33:42.349 --> 00:33:44.609 have vast knowledge on this topic and left us 00:33:44.609 --> 00:33:46.930 with lots to think about. We're always keen to 00:33:46.930 --> 00:33:48.970 hear the thoughts of our listeners, so please 00:33:48.970 --> 00:33:52.309 do let us know. A huge thank you to both Rebecca 00:33:52.309 --> 00:33:54.589 and Rachel for their time and you'll find all 00:33:54.589 --> 00:33:56.710 their details along with links to the subjects 00:33:56.710 --> 00:33:59.910 that they spoke about in the show notes. We're 00:33:59.910 --> 00:34:02.650 back in a couple of weeks and next time it's 00:34:02.650 --> 00:34:06.289 The Fun One. As always, thanks for listening 00:34:06.289 --> 00:34:07.829 and we'll see you again soon.