PR people need to step up to the plate and be
able to say like podcasts and sub stacks and
newsletters are really taking off. They're highly
engaged, highly opted in folks who will reach
your audience. You're never going to get on the
top tier podcast if you haven't done shitty podcasts.
You're never going to get on the best page if
you haven't been on smaller stages. You have
to go do these small things in order to get the
bigger things. AI has actually proven to be kind
of a boom for PR and comms generally, I think,
because there's so much slop out there. These
really heavy titles that people are paying a
ton of money for, head of content, head of comms,
head of, you know, because they need a quality
human being overseeing what the machines are
putting out. Welcome to Under Embargo, the podcast
that says the quiet part out loud about PR, communications,
and the chaos in between. Hosted by two of LinkedIn's
most connected comms pros, Becca Chambers, a
no BS corporate comms exec with raging ADHD,
and Pari Hedrick, founder of tech PR firm Crackle
PR. This show brings it all. Real talk, sharp
insights, and the kind of industry truth they
don't put in press releases. No fluff, no filters,
no f***s given. This is Under Embargo. Let's
get into it. Hello, everybody, and welcome back
to another episode of the Under Embargo podcast.
I'm Perry Hedrick, founder of Crackle, and as
always, I'm joined by the indefatigable Becca
Chambers, who is CMO of Scale Ventures. Today,
we have a pretty cool guest. I'm excited to meet
in person or, I guess, face -to -face with Meredith
Klein, who I have known, and she has been in
my circle on LinkedIn for years and years and
years, and we've been... uh fangirling and fanboying
with each other and cheering each other on through
a bunch of different iterations but uh marith
comes from a really storied background she was
let's see here she was director of public relations
at walmart which is no small little entity She
later was head of consumer and product comms
at Pinterest, another like banging, ridiculous
brand. And then very recently, she has started
out on her own venture, which we're going to
get into a little bit more. But Meredith in the
media is a substack that she writes, and she's
also a contributor to publications like Inc.
Magazine. So there's just a lot going on there.
So with that said, welcome, Meredith. Thank you
so much for having me. I respect and adore you
both. So this is the hat. Like, I love that.
That is the brand. Like I, that's how I know
you from not knowing you, but like, you know,
seeing you out there and very on brand. Cause
we're talking about it now. What's the deal with
the hat? Let's talk about the hat first. So it's
it's I wish it was a better story as a PR person.
But basically, like a few years ago, I was speaking
at a Reagan conference in Austin, Texas, and
very basic. I was like, I have to have a cowboy
hat to do that. Turns out I got a great profile
picture, made it, you know. few years and then
in april 2025 after about six months of trying
really hard to land a corporate job i said no
more i said uh i'm going to launch a sub stack
i've been talking about it on this platform people
are interested like i'm gonna you know throw
it like spaghetti to the wall and see what sticks
so i took the profile picture with the hat not
thinking anything of it uploaded it into chat
gpt said you know make an animated you know image
and call it meredith in the media spits it out
i said oh come on it gives back some images finally
land on one and then as i was doing the sub tabs
i kept using that same kind of hat image. Meredith
in the media, media news, media moves, media
happy hours, media collabs, just kind of came
synonymous. And I honestly, at that point, still
didn't think anything of it. And I went to a
Forbes Power Women's Summit, and I had three
different people come up to me and say, are you
Meredith from Meredith in the media? And I was
humbled. Yeah. Why? How'd you know? And they're
like, the hat. I'm like, oh, not me, the hat.
So I was like, wait a second. This might be making
fetch stick, if you will. Then a few weeks later,
I went to the Fast Company Innovation Festival.
Same thing. People were coming up to me with
the hat. And Brian Sazi, who's the executive
editor at Yahoo Finance and a good friend of
mine, texted me. He's like, the brown hat is
becoming synonymous with Steve Jobs' Black Turtle
deck and Bill Gates' glasses. And I'm like, oh,
my God. Like that's the recognition. Otherwise,
I'm just another PR girl that happens to have
blonde hair or brown hair or red hair. So it
became a thing. And people were commenting like
the iconic outfit, the iconic outfit. And what
I didn't realize was I was every time I was putting
out a post, I was putting it out with that brand,
the brown blazer, the hat, all of that. So it
became a thing. And now at this point, I posted
the other week without the hat. And I got a lot
of comments. I didn't even know what you looked
like without the hat. I'm like, well, I better
get an endorsement. I better get an endorsement
from hers or something because I'm going to have
some serious hat head going on. Do we know what
the brand of the hat is? Does the brand that
makes the hat know that you wear it and you made
it your thing? You know, they, this is actually
from Urban Outfitters. It's like something that
I had just bought, like to be kind of like cool
Ranchero hat. I have since worked with a few
actual cowboy hat makers, like the millinery,
um, Carly Lamanna, who made me a custom cowboy
hat that literally says Meredith in the media.
And she like steamed it and did whatever else
I'm up to about seven hats now. So, uh, you know,
cause I got to change it. Does part of you think
like, God damn it. Now I have to wear a hat everywhere
I go. Or are you embracing it? A little bit of
both. That's why I have so many different...
As long as I stay within the brown, black, cream,
and leopard print, that's within the brand of
the image, I'm good. Getting a few different
partnerships. I partnered with Shein, who gave
me a whole bunch of brown and black dresses that
I can wear, and having different conversations
with brands, just so that I can show up on brand,
but not look like I'm in the complete same thing.
I have had some agencies ask me if I'm coming.
in the outfit and i will wear the traditional
calvin klein you know brown jacket which like
my dry cleaner bill at this point she's like
you wear this all the time you have any other
clothes i'm like yeah it's hard to explain uh
but yeah so a rotation of outfits but trying
to trying to stay on the brand create the brand
um and i think it's really helpful uh in terms
of just like as a person i i like have to scream
about this because people always say like you
know say Say we were having this conversation
as a strategy a year ago and I said to you, hey,
you should wear the hat. And you're an executive
at a company saying, how is that going to help
us get any leads? And me describing a year from
now and state is something that nobody seems
to be able to comprehend. But like you just lived
it and you are a perfect example of why that
matters, because it doesn't. it's not your hat
isn't additive to your intelligence it's not
making you a smarter person but it is making
you more recognizable and distinguished from
a sea of sameness and so that your ideas then
can be the thing that stand out because people
are ready to listen to you because they remember
and um acknowledge who you are based on these
brand signals and i just i just needed to stop
and say that because it grinds my gears that
people don't seem to understand this Spoken like
a true CMO, and I take your advice on anything.
We have our thing. Becca is Becca from LinkedIn.
I am the this is the way guy, and you are the
how guy. We're all crushing it in our own ways.
But to the point you guys are both making, it
makes us instantly recognizable. People read
my post and they're like, oh, I know who that
is because I see his little sign off. That 100
% has separated me, as Becca says, from the sea
of sameness out there. And you are the fist guy
now. Every time I use it, I think of you. Yeah,
well, I have people constantly, like literally
five times a day, somebody will write a post
and like, and as Perry Hendrick says, this is
the way. At least they're giving you the credit
and not trying to whip it because we got a lot
of... Boy, a lot of people who are inspired by
your posts yet rip it. I actually, it was funny.
I did a post today with your friend, Becca, Corporate
Natalie, who I adore. She did this hilarious
spoof on interviewing for Bad Bunny Super Bowl.
And she had like a headband with like the trees.
And I actually did like a relatable post on,
you know, interviewing in today's corporate world.
And it's so true in terms of just, you know,
the copying and whatever. And I was very clear,
like, original video by you know corporate natalie
on tick tock link to it because like i know better
than to kind of rip it now was her video that
i was showing with my contacts but i gave the
credit there and that just doesn't happen it
doesn't again like you can have ideas that piggyback
off somebody else's ideas and it doesn't take
away from yours and so i don't understand why
people wouldn't give credit you know what i mean
i mean there is the copy paste plagiarist which
is a different story but like you know You can
still rip people's ideas and like put a little
bit of your own original spin on it and not be
called a plagiarist. And I don't see why. Attribution,
baby. It's easy. Why in 2025 are people so lazy
that they're copying and pasting people's content?
Like I cannot get over that. Like you have tools
at your disposal to hide your plagiarism at this
point. Like at least try a little bit. So I want
to talk a little bit about the pivot that you've
made from being, you know, within a big, large
corporate entity to now striking off on your
own with Substack and the Meredith Media thing.
And you got your hat and you got your whole jam
going. Talk to me about how that's going. Talk
to me about like what subscribers are looking
like. Like, give me a sense for what the cadence
of your every day is like relative to the world
that you used to live in. Yeah. So Meredith in
the media is something that just felt supernatural.
Obviously I had done 20 years in PR. So my media
Rolodex was pretty strong. You know, I'm on text
basis with a lot of the reporters. And with the
state of journalism, I was like, hmm, we could
really use a spotlight on journalists. And as
great as it is, as comms folks being like, here's
how you pitch, here's what you do. I'm like,
what if we heard it directly from the journalist's
mouth, right? Like, you know, every comms person
is great and has their own formula and there's
some tried and true practices. But I really wanted
to shine a spotlight on what journalists were
focused on, their careers, how to pitch them.
I mean, I'm still doing some consulting with
brands and like dying to get into some of these.
these major New York Times corner office type
things that are coming back. And I'm like, let's
pull the onion back on how actually that would
work, but not from me having placed a few corner
office columns, but from Jordan directly, right?
We're still working on her. So I really started
saying, understanding that I've been in PR for
20 years, I know the media landscape, but I want
to help PR folks better in the media landscape.
I launched Meredith in the Media. Every Monday,
I do a media interview. with a leading journalist.
I'm up to about 42 interviews since I launched
in May 2025. I also, throughout the week, try
to launch... media roundups and media news roundups.
So if there's media moves and people have new
beats or new outlets, I like to cover that. I
also like to cover the media news. Like when
Fast Company comes out with a new podcast by
design with Mark Wilson and Liz Stinson, I want
to make sure folks are covering that. I adore
Mark. He does great work and it's an opportunity
for PR folks. I also am trying to be really innovative.
I'm not the first and only person that's ever
posted interviews with journalists. So I... recently
launched live from the newsroom where I went
to Business Insider for a full day with a videographer,
sat in the 9 .30 meeting, went through all the
editorial meetings, got to sit with Jamie Heller,
who's the editor -in -chief, who's been absolutely
transformative there. And in the coming weeks,
once I've had about 10 hours to sift through
the content and pull it together, I'll be giving
that behind -the -scene peek. And it's really
meant to answer the questions of what is happening
happening in a newsroom are folks actually getting
your pitches turning and being like did you just
get becca's pitch too my god she's pitching everyone
right like i want to know all that kind of stuff
um and uh really an inside look and then i also
try to do spotlight so uh it's a lot of work
to do an interview. It's about five hours start
to finish for a single interview. So I also try
to do spotlights, whether it's sub stacks or
independent folks and just ask them a few questions,
drive some subscription for them. And the other
thing would just be really focusing on new and
interesting ways to bring PR folks insights that
they're just not getting. I mean, 20 years ago,
which is not so long ago, but I was going into
newsrooms. I was making calls. Perry, I know
we did the whole call exchange. I 100 % have
been roasted. on calls from producers when I
called them at the wrong time trying to get it
in. I didn't know better, but that certainly
shaped me. And I think, you know, with the pandemic
and folks working from home and remote work,
which I think is great, there's a one side of
it where you're not getting that shadowing expertise
where you're truly seeing how your boss who's
kind of been through it is doing PR and you're
not going into the newsroom as much. People are
scared of their own shadow. Nevertheless, they
don't want, you know, we had this conversation.
You know, Monica Earle from Duolingo did a post
about, you know, not finding contact information.
Yeah, people are not including their phone numbers
because they're terrified of getting that phone
call. Yeah, I love it. And it's so true. And
I have had so many opportunities and instances
where I've had to call a reporter and talk them
off the ledge of a bad story. And PR people now,
I mean, I don't want to, it's not a monolith.
I don't want to say all, but. a little bit more
scared too. So Meredith in the media is really
like, okay, I'm trying to hit folks across sector,
across publication to really be like, what's
the best way to get on your radar? Tell me about
the new columns. How do we pitch you? We don't
have the relationship. Like, how do we get that
relationship? And I've gotten a lot of great
feedback on it really being transformative. So
we're at 70 ,000 monthly views, over 3 ,500 subscribers.
And we're just a baby less than a year. I have
a question, I guess, you know, you're, doing
all of this work that nobody's really doing anymore
to your point like everything has changed over
the past half a decade let's say what what is
different like other than like the you know interactions
as far as you know face to face and how has obviously
the media landscape has changed a lot how has
that changed the role of the pr person based
on what you're seeing and based on what journalists
are saying um i guess that's my question Yeah,
no, it's a good question. I mean, I totally understand.
You know, there's a lot of the rise of Substack.
It's really more a resurgence. Like Substacks
have been around for a very long time, like Casey
Newton, the platformer, super early on years
ago. We're just seeing a resurgence of it because
we're either seeing reporters getting forced
into it through layoffs, like Jeffrey Fowler
very sadly got laid off at the Washington Post.
Within the same breath of saying he got laid
off, he announced a new sub stack. Like it was
an immediate like switch to that. Joanna Stern,
one of like the legacy reporters for personal
tech at Wall Street Journal, just announced she's
going to be starting her own media company to
be determined if it's, you know, Beehive or,
you know, something else. But but super, you
know, exciting nonetheless. So what's different
is. this need for PR folks to understand and
be able to clearly articulate to their clients
the importance of an integrated media mix. And
I know that's not new either. I was trying to
pitch newsletters back in 2020 like, hey, we
got any information. They're like, not on the
website. I'm like, in the newsletter where people
opt in and want to get this feedback. Don't actually
go to the information. backslash weekend, but
get it into their inbox, right? So it's not that
it's new. It's that PR people need to step up
to the plate and be able to say like, okay, podcasts
and sub stacks and newsletters are really taking
off. They're highly engaged, highly opted in
folks who will reach your audience. And it's
a more action oriented audience. I'd rather reach.
3 000 people with the majority taking action
on that then maybe get a circ or uvm of 2 .78
million point five six seven eight i'm so tired
of like those numbers that's it though right
you have to be in more places now except for
those places have people who are actually the
people who want to engage with your stuff so
it's two sides of a coin but to your point like
that is far more effective to be speaking to
a small group of people that care about what
you're talking about than to a massive group
of people who probably don't. So, yeah. Yeah.
And I've got two reporters who told me this.
So Kaya Uriaf, who used to be at The Information,
now she's got her own, you know, publication,
Scalable. She said to me, the billion follower
era is over. Like folks are less concerned with
like massive amounts of followers, which is still
important in some degree, but more concerned
with like, where can they like authentically
relate to folks too, which is why you two have
been so huge following, but so successful because
you're so relatable. I'm like, I feel like. We're
speaking the same language. And then, you know,
I've had other reporters and now I'm blanking
out, but like other reporters who have literally
told me the dynamic shift is different. Right.
Like it's all about the audience. It's all about
who you're reaching. It's all about the relatability
to that. And the concept of content creator and
influencer is blurring a little bit. Right. So
I think that's really interesting, too. And I
talk about this a lot. Everybody is quick to
point out that traditional media is kind of withering
on the vine to some extent, which it is. There's
layoffs everywhere. That is definitely a thing.
But against that backdrop, there's been this
sort of atomization of all these people where
they've gone to these different locations, the
different platforms, the beehives. Pubstacks,
the podcast. So I'd argue there's actually probably
more opportunity than there was in the past.
It just takes a hell of a lot more individualization
and targeting and authenticity when you're doing
your outreach to get to those people to in aggregate
build that halo effect for the brand you rep.
So what does that mean? It means it's fucking
hard. I mean, it takes a lot more work. and a
lot more time and it's uncomfortable for the
big giant agencies who maybe aren't used to that
and are still trying to get paid by the hour
to go out there and infiltrate these little pockets
of influence it's a difficult world but it doesn't
mean sorry it doesn't mean you have to work harder
it just means you have to shift your strategy
right it means stop doing some of the stuff that
doesn't work anymore and i like that's the problem
is we're in this transitional phase where everybody's
adding sub stacks and podcasts and all of these
you know non -traditional media as kind of extras
to their comms plan when really they should be
focused on that. And the like old media strategy
should be the extra that they do when they have
time. Right. Yeah. Yes. Yes. And that's the thing
too. And so there's, there's the, the maturation
phase of like PR folks that are like for sub
stack or kind of, you know, anti sub stack, just
place them with their ways. It is like, woo,
like major scales. Like people ask me all the
time, how do I work with a sub stack journalist?
And I'm like, exactly the same way that you'd
work with a legacy journalist. You take someone
like Alex Conrad, who was at Forbes for 12 years
and now has Upstarts Media. He breaks a story,
breaks an embargo. That news is out there. He
still has the same background. He's still got
the same journalist integrity. He's still got
the same audience and influence. He's just doing
it on his platform. Alex Conrad, Upstarts Media,
Jason Del Rey, The Aisle, Alex Heath Sources,
Rich DeMuro. The list goes on of folks who have
come from massive legacy publications, who have
the classical journalism training, who've got
the ethics, who've got the following now doing
their own thing. So I even have some clients
who are like, well, we'd still like to be in
Forbes and Fortune. I'm like, OK, great. Right.
But like. We're going to also get you in like
the Sunday setup, which is a great newsletter
on leadership. And you should be in there. And
the folks that read it are probably going to
be interested in being part of what you've got
going on. And I think, you know, Becky, you were
going to say something, but that's the difference.
You've got to work smarter, but you've also got
to be able to articulate that. PR folks have
to be able to say to the client who's like, but
I want Wall Street Journal. Hey, like. But actually,
you're going to get more traction by getting
your content. As an in -house comms lady, which
I know you were for many years, but I want to
raise the pickle that I think most in -house
comms people are in, which is that their leadership
is saying, I want to be in the Wall Street Journal.
I want to be in Forbes. And the comms person
knows, actually, you need to focus on. these
independent journalists, podcasts, newsletters,
blah, blah, blah. But there is a massive disconnect
and a junior comms person or even a senior comms
person doesn't always have the ability to convince
said executive that. the new media strategy is
more important. So like, how do we arm the communications
people with whatever it is they need to be able
to convince their executives that they should
be going on podcasts and they should be spending
their time. doing interviews that are going to
end up in independent media rather than in...
One thing to add to that, it's not even just
the executives, it's the board that the executives
are important to. Because ultimately that's who
they're trying to impress. Non -coms people.
It's the people who don't have their finger on
the pulse of this, who aren't, you know, they
themselves subscribe to newsletters and sub stacks,
but still somehow don't understand that that's
where they need to reach their audience, you
know? So I don't know how we help with that mind
shift because that's a real problem. That's it's
a real problem. So the way that I used to, you
know, do this when newsletters first became a
big thing and like they're like, we're not on
Wall Street Journal. I'm like, but you're in
the newsletter that gets emailed to everyone.
I mean, I think one of the biggest things you'll
remember as a junior person, whenever you're
vetting something, it's like who's already been
on. So like minded examples of executives that
have been on sample of coverage, tone of whatever
else. I think one of the new metrics that I've
started sharing with clients is shareability.
So like might have. 3 ,500 subscribers, right?
Might have three likes on it. Let's please stop
measuring anything by like number of likes. Look
at the engagement, look at the impressions, but
saves and shareability. Like when I was at Pinterest,
saves was a huge metric because it meant like
saving it to take action on afterwards. That's
the same for, you know, I will bookmark a podcast
and I'm like, I got to listen to this for later,
right? So like people should be looking at -
That's what my kid is doing with this algo, by
the way. Saves and shares, same thing, but go
ahead. Yeah, it's huge. So I think we should
be looking at that. So like, if you look at some,
like, I remember when Parisa Cavillans left CNN
after 24 years being there, had worked with her
for years, you know, part of, you know, restructuring
being done, she launched Bagable. which is a
shopping sub stack. And I remember saying to
clients, oh, I'm going to pitch you for this
sub stack. It wasn't until I was like, look,
she's interviewed PacSun CEO, Brianna, and she's
interviewing Elf Beauty. Elf Beauty is one who
I would say is. always impressed me with their
level of media. They're always in Puck News and
they're always doing whatever else. And unfortunately,
what happens is those that are the trailblazers,
like, you know, are first to feast, if you will.
And then once everyone else figures it out, it's
like the water's muddy and it's much harder.
So I try to use those as examples. So the first
thing I say is I look at, look at the background.
Parisha started Bagable, but she's got 24 years
at CNN interviewing major CEOs. She's also just
done an interview with the CEO of PAC. Sun. Yes,
at the time, followers wasn't big. But imagine
the folks that are opting into this, reading
this. That's who you want to see your news, see
the thing. Easier said than done. It's still
a forever battle. I'm still chasing the tale
of Wall Street Journal and traditional news ever
after having gotten lots of, you know, it's not
even new media anymore. I can't even call it
integrated media. But, you know, Emma Hinchcliffe
at Fortune, who writes the MPW daily newsletter
and is a good friend said to me, you are going
to see traditional media looking at the independent,
seeing how they can be more scrappy and innovative
and creative. And you're going to see the independent
folks looking to try to emulate what's in traditional
media, which is so true, right? Like none, no
doubt that I have my eye on what are different
ways that I can bring a cheddar style, you know,
vignette. to meredith in the media because right
now i'm doing a lot of written texts right like
and and there's things that inspire me in the
newsroom that i want to be doing um from from
legacy they're trying to do more you're seeing
fast company and inc forbes has had contributor
model forever you're going to see more and more
of those lines blurred where they're bringing
folks of influence who they want to attract their
audiences onto legacy publications can i ask
you talk a lot about people that you've known
forever and you've been in this business for
a while and we all have and you know i have my
my friends sound like you have a lot of friends
in the media obviously um what would you say
to people that still think relationships are
the most important thing about um getting good
placements good articles good uh newsletters
is it is the relationship the thing or is the
story the thing or is it both before you answer
i would just say my take has always been that
relationships will get you a fair hearing because
you've earned the right to have someone listen.
But ultimately, it depends on the story because
your best friend is not going to just do you
a solid because you know him or her. But I want
to hear what you say because you know a lot of
really, really important folks in this industry.
Yeah. So I think relationships are important,
but I would never, ever, ever, ever, ever send
a relationship a nothing burger and waste their
time with it. So I do think the story is paramount.
You've got to have a good story. You could not
have a relationship and have a great story and
make a relationship because you have a great
story. That said, I also think it's easier to
get some feedback. So I will reach out to folks
that are friendlies and say like, hey, I've got
this story. Like, I think this could be great
for, you know, chip cutter. Like, what do you
think? Who should I send it to? And they'll respond
and be like, actually, this is better for Vanessa.
Like, do you want me to introduce you? So I will
use relationships to either say like, hey, inbound,
got an embargo, coming in, check your inbox at
12 and like tip folks off. And they're more likely
to respond to me. Even if they're like, hey,
this isn't a fit or whatever. But I will never
send a media, especially a friendly, something
that's an absolute nothing burger. They're going
to take when I do have a story less seriously.
And I don't want to burn that. So I'm really
big on like you have two clients, like you're
paying client at the moment and the media who
hopefully will be your client forever, no matter
where they go. So I'm really big on not burning
those media relationships. I do think relationships
are important. It's the reason why I just got
a story. I had a great story that was perfect
for TechCrunch, but I had never worked with the
editor. Basically sent out a pigeon carrier.
Couldn't get in touch with her. I'm like, I don't
know. Reached out. texted someone i worked with
at forbes hey got a story right up your alley
think it could be you if not you could be your
colleague immediately connected me via email
to the colleague work with them we ended up getting
a story same exact story was totally relevant
for tech crunch totally relevant for forbes that
was an instance where having the relationship
mattered but it was a good story So it's like
a hard, you know, I see a lot of posts on LinkedIn,
like hard against relationships or hard for relationships.
You do have to have a good story no matter what,
but the relationship will help a little. Isn't
it the same idea as like having a warm intro
to like a job that's open? Like they're not going
to hire a shitty person just because their friend
recommended them, but they might take the call,
right? They might say, okay, I'll interview that
person or because I trust you, you know, there
is some trust put on whatever. But I think this
idea that like, yeah like journalists are just
doing like favors for their friends and like
especially in this time when like they already
have 9 ,000 things they need to cover that they
don't have time to cover. Like they're going
to just add your crappy favor into the mix is
such a. Well, it's kind of funny. A lot of people
just don't know that everybody has access to
lists of reporters. Like anybody can get access
to a database of reporters. You can pitch them.
It's just, you don't know how to do it. Yeah.
Right. It's not like we're in the mafia. We call
them these favors. I'm like, Nunzio is going
to slip you a, you know, $50 milk and get that
story. hey tony i got something i also think
with the fishes this goes back to the like being
in more places like most of the thing most of
the media that i've been quoted in almost all
of it has been because a journalist has found
me because of my content that is out in the ether
or my thoughts or my thought leadership or my
podcast or whatever so it goes to the like flywheel
of yeah maybe doing this crappy podcast does
have value because six months from now, somebody
from the Washington Post is going to watch it
and be like, oh, she has a perspective on the
thing I want to talk about. And I swear that
is where I've gotten my best media coverage is.
almost all of the coverage that I've had, like
personal coverage, is because people have found
my thought leadership out in the internet world,
LinkedIn, podcast, whatever. So it's not me pitching
the media. It's them finding their sources because
they're like, oh, this person has an interesting
perspective that I want to include in my article
or whatever. So I don't remember where I was
going with that. No, just so I think you're right
in terms of the importance of doing content,
no matter if it's a big podcast or a small one,
it's where you place and disseminate that content,
which is to your earlier point, meeting readers
where they are in their content journey. So,
for example, Andy Incencio, who's been a reporter
at the Associated Press for 24 years, actually
told me that one of the ways she finds new sources
is through LinkedIn comments. So she might work
six months on a story for AP. sit on LinkedIn
and a brand, a CEO might write great story, but
you didn't think about XYZ angle. And she's like,
that's really interesting. I then reach out to
them, like, tell me more about XYZ angle. And
all of a sudden she has a new source, a new story
through LinkedIn where she published her work.
Another example is clients are often asking me,
you know, we want to get on Guy Raz, how I built
this. That's kind of like the Mecca. Awesome.
Super hard to get, right? If and when you do
get Guy Raz, where are you posting it? You're
posting it on LinkedIn. You're posting it on
your Facebook, X, Instagram, whatever you're
doing. So you're taking that content and then
putting it on different channels to be found.
How people find content is the key takeaway here.
It's not that you got on Guy Raz. That's great.
but but where are they seeing it my i know when
i post on facebook it's like all of my like aunts
from you know florida and all over my mom and
dad's friends it's usually kid pictures but they're
like wow mary are you a journalist is she a journalist
cindy right so it's like you know you got to
kind of manipulate a little bit for the channels
but they wouldn't have seen my Guy Raz podcast
if I didn't post it on Facebook because they're
not going to Guy Raz. Or if I'm posting on Instagram,
that's where I'm like, I'm like feeling myself
a little bit. I got my best picture and I'm posting
it for my friends who are like, slay girl, go
after it, right? Like you're meeting folks at
different, you know, areas of where they're doing
the content. So to the PR folks and the executives
and the boards who are like, Wall Street Journal
or bust, well, you're busting. You busted because
like, actually you're not, if you're not going
to get on that, you're not going to be found
elsewhere. And then your content is just not
on there. You might as well just like post a
corporate blog. Exactly. And there's two things
I want to double down on with that one going
on a shitty podcast where you still get video
clips of you saying intelligent things is still
very useful, usable content, right? Go make some
clips and go share it and all of the places and
go be. out there um the second thing being you're
never going to get on the top tier podcast if
you haven't done shitty podcasts you're never
going to get on the best if you haven't been
on smaller stages so like you have to go do these
small things in order to get the bigger things
anyway so like look at it as practice i don't
know but against that backdrop too is the llm
thing we keep talking about becca The way that,
you know, ChatGPT, Perplexity, Claude, Gemini,
they are using in their citations all these instances
of earned media across podcasts and Substack
and Reddit and you name it. And so in aggregate,
the recency of those things is what elevates
you to the answer section when people are looking
for your stuff at the point of need. So like
your practice is actually very beneficial in
real time to you being found and discovered for
more opportunities. There's also a whole brand,
personal brand. executive brand founder brand
conversation in this, which is if I Google Becca
chambers now, what comes up is like a description
of me that I have written about myself and put
out into the world. So like I have curated the,
who is Becca chambers response from LLMs because
I've put enough of who is Becca chambers out
into the world. If everyone just spent more time
doing that as individuals, as brands, whatever
you can kind of. create the story, the answer
response that people are getting from LLMs in
a much more packaged paragraph answer than it
used to be with a bunch of random links, right?
And I just think like people are underestimating
how important that is when someone says, you
know, who is Perry Hedrick? And it just says,
Perry is blah, blah, blah, blah. And it's exactly
the description you want it to be. Well, I do
that too, Becca. And I start with... Often confused
for Brad Pitt. Yes. Perry Hedrick is, and I just
go deeper and deeper. That's what I got. Yeah.
I knew you looked familiar. Yeah. I get Ronald
Reagan quite a bit. I want to switch gears a
little bit quickly. So two things I want to talk
about. One is community, which I'll get to next.
But the first thing I want to say is. I think
you in some ways have flipped the model, Meredith,
in the sense that the majority of folks travel
from being a reporter, journalist over into the
dark side PR land. And you've kind of zigged
when other people are zagging and become a little
more of a sort of citizen journalist almost about
the journalists, even though you still do PR
and you still have brands. I'm wondering. Do
you attribute the success you're having to the
fact that it's such an unusual thing that no
one is doing that? Or to some other thing, just
like namely your love of inside baseball when
it comes to the media? Is doing the opposite
of what most people do helping you stand out
in this sea of sameness we always talk about?
I would say yes. You know, I get a lot of pitches
from comms folks wanting me to interview their
CEO or executive. I'm like, hey, thanks for the
pitch. Super interesting. Only interview media.
Meredith and the media. Right. Like and I'm I'm
I'm true to sticking to that niche. You've got.
Axios. You've got PR Week. You've got PR News.
You've got Provoke. You've got tons of comms
communications. There's tons of amazing comms
newsletters, great comms folks that have stuff
that they're putting out there. And that's important.
And they're interviewing comms professionals
and getting the take. And there's a need for
that. And it's interesting. But less and less
folks are interviewing journalists. Again, I'm
not the first and I'm not the last. Can't forget
folks like Chris Rauch, who launched Talking
Biz News years and years ago. And it used to
be the Bible for me when he'd come out with media
news. And I still keep in touch with him. And
now he actually covers my news, which is surreal
and interesting. He's a great guy. But, you know,
it's it's really unique. And oftentimes reporters
say to me. Thank you for doing this. This is
so fun. No one's ever wanted to interview me.
No one's ever wanted to spotlight me. I'm always
behind the pen, right? So I think... One, journalists,
first of all, they see the landscape and they
understand how important their personal brand
is. It's the reason Business Insider launched
a follow button. They recognize we want people
to follow the voice, follow the talent. It's
also why you're seeing more multimedia where
Twitter's like, I'm not going to work on the
story for nine months and then not shout it for
the rooftop. I'm going to have to figure out
how to do the TikTok model. So me being able
to say like, hey, I want to shine a spotlight.
on your work on the new column on the new format
like congrats wall street journal you just hit
1 million followers on tick tock i reached out
to julia i'm like it's actually really interesting
let me know if you can get approval within three
minutes she's like that was quick they want you
to cover it like there is this hunger to not
only put a spotlight on the journalists um but
on the work that they're doing because as much
as like you know there's an independent boom
journalism is so important and we can't lose
sight of the fact like we can't have more wall
washington post situations happen we need Wall
Street Journal. We need New York Times. We need
these legacy folks and all the talented staff
behind them. But we need to kind of bifurcate
what's happening with kind of the integrated
media mix. And what I'm trying to do is shine
a spotlight on those reporters, their career,
their hard work, you know, what they're trying
to do, as well as give the traditional folks
like a chance to really succeed. So when the
Fast Company does come out with a by design podcast
or Business Insider comes out with First Trade,
which is their new financial newsletter. I want
folks to know about that because I want them
to succeed. I want PR folks to succeed and get
their clients coverage. And I want the... publications
to be rewarded for continually innovating and
coming up with new and innovative ways to reach
their audience so i think why it's working really
well pr people benefit and are learning and getting
coverage for their clients and publications are
getting a spotlight shown on the work and the
journalists that are doing i think it's more
important now than ever also by the way like
just given how fractured the media landscape
is how shit on the media are right now how fast.
It's all changing all the time. Like you need
people who are just focused on that. And so I
think it's both admirable and timely that you're
doing this, uh, helpful for lots of folks. So
very awesome. So I want to kind of parlay what
we're talking about here into a question about
what's next for what you're doing. So I know
you're a year, a year young. Um, you're still,
uh, what are we in baby, baby years? You're still,
Oh, you're only 12, 12 months. Um, But but is
there a longer term play that you have in mind?
In particular, I'm thinking you would be uniquely
qualified to do what some folks have begun doing,
which is to build a community around what you've
done, like a subscription type model for, you
know, comms pros. And maybe it's also a. a journalism
thing where you have, you know, two sort of partitions
and there's interplay between the two and like
maybe it becomes a lead sharing thing or a story
pitching thing or is that at all in your product
roadmap? And if not, is it now? Yeah, it definitely
is more and more. It started out as just something
where I was like. I love the media. I've got
a lot of friends there. This would be really
cool to do. It was born out of my own curiosity
on what Substack was and how to work with it
and became really good. But now that I've grown
again, 3 ,500 subscribers, 70 ,000 monthly views
and really. journalist pitching me, you know,
hey, do you want to break my news? Or, you know,
we've got this new podcast. Like, do you want
to be the one to scoop it? That's super cool.
And that's been like my like, you know, 360 moment
where I'm like, I don't think I've realized like
how. big this has become so quickly. So I have
thought about ways to monetize. I mean, it's
largely free. I do have paid subscribers. So
I've got about like 180 paid subscribers out
of the lot. I've done the math and I'm like,
wait a second, I could be making $1 million if
I did paid. But I think it's kind of part and
parcel. I'm in hyper growth mode. I need to give
some of that content for free. Some of it will
be behind a paywall. I want to always give the
media interviews for free because I want to encourage
the shareability. We talked about that being
an important metric. I wouldn't paywall something
and be like, hey, now share that with your family
and friends. Like I talked to Josh Schaefer at
Barron's and we talked about like the you're
writing for the fridge. And we talked about the
importance of like, you know, when you get a
news article, you know, your mom puts it on the
fridge. Like this is the same thing. People are
still really excited to get coverage on them.
They want to share it with others. So the media
interviews will always be free. Auto paywalled
after three weeks when like, you know, the kind
of everything sizzled down. And if PR folks are
like, hey, I'm interested in that interview with
Steve Bertoni for September. Now you got to pay
a whopping nine dollars to get access to it.
But, you know, I think the other thing I'm thinking,
too, as, you know, more and more media are looking
to integrate. For example, I'm on Inc. Magazine
and it links to Meredith in the media. That's
a huge get for both of us. Right. And I will
talk about it and cross post about it. And in
terms of the next steps for that, I think. maybe,
maybe waiting to have the right conversations.
Like, you know, I don't want to be like, what's
my exit strategy. I'm not that big of a deal.
And I I'm in PR. I still can't do math, but it's
like, uh, how do I, how do I figure out what,
you know, operationally this looks like, because
I would like this to be my full -time gig. I
would love to exclusively focus on this and,
you know, have it be paid. I just, I'm one person
right now outside of hiring a former ad week
editor, David Cohen, who's incredible and helps
me with my editing. and gives me that real journalism
kind of overlay, which I think is really important.
It's really only me and it's a ton of work in
addition to my day job. So I think until I can
kind of free up some of that capital or, you
know, get an investor who's interested in me
or, you know, like get some type of proposition
where it's like, hey, you should think about
like scaling this and here's how you would do
it. Right now I'm riding this wave of. one of
the first folks to be doing something cool and
unique. I'm having a ton of fun. Um, it's, it's
bringing me joy and purpose. Um, and I'm truly
helping people like the amount of emails and
texts and DMS I get of like, honestly, you're,
this is awesome, Meredith. Like it's transformative.
I've landed so much coverage that to me is so
worth it now that doesn't pay my bills or my
kids, you know, sports tuition. But, um, for
now I'm just loving it. And I think, um, Good
things come to those who wait. And right now
I'm going to wait for kind of the next big moment
while still spending the time doing the great
work. Love it. Fighting the good fight. And just
for the record, I've seen you more since you've
kind of ventured out on your own than I ever
did prior. So you're doing something right. I
see you all of the time and it's great. I've
been called indefatigable about six times in
the past few weeks. I'm like, I'd say so. You
might have been one of the six. I am very tired
for what it's worth. And it is a lot. But I mean,
I think that's another thing. And I think you
can both agree on this. Perception is really
important. Right. So you've got to be, you know,
everywhere and appearing everywhere. And, you
know, it can seem a little ick or cringe or folks
like. you got to keep doing it. Like go unabashedly
all in for me. Like this is my job, right? Like
if T -Mobile is going to fly me out, which they
did and pay me money to, you know, speak to their
incredible comms team and make them even smarter
than they already are. Like I got to be pumping
that content out and posting about that because
now I want others to reach out to me and do the
same. So advice for folks is just like. Don't
worry about what other people are thinking. In
your former life, when you're like, oh, I don't
want to be posting this picture of my face or
this or that, you've got to let all of that go.
I have a, dare I say, stronger LinkedIn fam community
of folks that I haven't really ever met in person
than when I post on Insta or Facebook and I get
a little bit of that backhanded compliment of
like, she's doing what? You can't worry about
that kind of stuff. You've got to keep focused
on what you're doing. And Becca, to your earlier
point, put it everywhere because everywhere will
then place you also like is your goal to impress
the people you went to high school with or your
current like co -workers or is your goal to like
open opportunities for yourself because if it's
the latter then like yeah sorry they can call
you cringe all day but like They can call you
cringe all the way to the bank or whatever that
term is. Whatever that, yeah, right. No, it's
so true. And again, like this has become, you
know, what I hope to be a business and it's going
to go from what I hope would be just, you know,
a sub stack newsletter to truly building, you
know. A media entity, a media empire. So last
question for me, and then we go do a little rapid
round thing. I'm just really curious to hear
what you're going to say about this. I get asked,
as does we all get asked the same kind of question,
like to talk to college classes and all that.
I do it. I love it. And lately, I have been thinking
about the question of what would I tell somebody
who said, should I or should I not get into public
relations or communications? I'm not going to
answer that question. I'm curious to see what
you would say to a young college person thinking
about getting into this space that we've been
in for so long now. What would you say? Yeah,
I would say. Yes. I think that communications
is the epicenter of every single business, no
matter the industry, if it's gas and oil, financial
service, healthcare, clear communication is paramount.
And we've seen it when it's gone really awry
and hasn't worked. And we've seen when it's worked
really well. So I think the up and coming generation
who, you know, wasn't raised on newspapers and
having inky hands, but rather is seeing everything
through what we're calling new media, but for
them is just media, podcasts, subsects, social
media. I think it's incredibly... interesting
for folks to get into. I think it's going to
be even more important. I think the skill set,
like my daughter is nine years old and will still
help me using CoverStar, social media, this,
that, the other. And I talk to her all the time
about the importance of clear communications
and being able to do it. Right now, we're working
on really hard homework where she has to dissect
thesis. I'm like, this is even hard for me. So
I think that the communications role, I would
still encourage. it because I think businesses
are always going to need a communicator at the
table to help them through the good, the bad
and the ugly. I think we've seen, you know, obviously
everyone saw the Katie Deaton, you know. desperately
seeking storytellers. And you've got Duolingo
had like 425 ,000 for like a head of comms role.
And we're like, oh my God, right? Like it's incredibly
lucrative and people are paying more and bigger
bucks to get good comms folks in here. Jobs are
obviously harder, but I think that I would encourage
folks to do it, whether they end up going in
-house agency or on their own, because someone's
always looking for someone, the amount of inbounds,
like, hey, I'm looking for kind of a freelance
publicist. The media engine will always be humming.
It's just going to look different. And the tools
that you bring to fix the car are going to look
different. And this next generation has the advantage
growing up as digital media. I think there is
a value to being more of a generalist than a
specialist these days as well, right? Like having
a broader tool set rather than just going really
super deep into like one niche, even within like
comms. So anyway. Just my quick. addition to
what you said meredith is that a year or two
ago i might have been like i don't know if it
makes sense to get in now because the media ecosystem
is shrinking so rapidly etc etc but AI has actually
proven to be kind of a boom for PR and comms
generally, I think, because there's so much slop
out there. And to your point about these really
heavy titles that people are paying a ton of
money for head of content, head of comms, head
of, you know, all those areas because they need
a quality human being overseeing what the machines
are putting out. Here's my question. Is it they
need one quality human being? And so like. all
of the junior roles are going to go away because
that's what I feel like is happening. That's
a different topic and it's a big one. It's like
they're making this one super comms role where
they're paying a lot and they want the best of
the best, but that person and AI at the expense
of... you know the rest of it yeah it's not gonna
work though because like think about like the
most senior role you were in back -to -back meetings
non -stop even if you had ai like when are you
going through when are you prompting ai spitting
that out reviewing it fact like i understand
i actually in one thing like i use ai often because
as a one -person band like i literally am like
need to quickly create something, need to pull
something. I will use it. For example, I pulled
together like, you know, who are the media that
would cover this? Half the media, like no longer
at that outlet or cover that beat. I had to physically
go, which I always do. And PR, good PR people
will always go to the website, physically look
and see when was our last article, go to their
LinkedIn, which isn't always up to, I'm looking
at like three different sources before I even
do the outreach. You know, Alana Samuels at time
was like, I enlisted in one of the great media
databases as a health care reporter. She's like,
I literally only cover, you know, family, this,
this and this. I don't cover and I get pitched
on everything because it literally just says.
healthcare reporter. So I think that you're still
going to need folks that are going to get in
there, do the work, make it happen, maybe less,
but then there's going to be different roles.
10 years ago, they didn't have a social media
coordinator. 2010 was like 20, 2009, Twitter
came out, 2010, Pinterest came out. We didn't
have social media coordinators. Now there's chief
content officers. There's chief. I think there's
just going to be a shift in the title and the
skill sets. I still think there's a huge role
for PR. Tons of jobs by way of will be actual
job. Shit market now. No doubt. One of my posts
today. Shit market. But I do think it's just
going to change. And the roles that you didn't
have before, you now have. And now if they're
calling them storytellers versus account executives,
okay, you're a storyteller. I think if you're
positioned right and you're ahead of kind of,
or at least with the curve, then like I'm hiring
like crazy right now. I've been hiring up. storm.
My biggest challenge is finding quality candidates,
which I know is unfortunate. Praise Jesus. But
the market is a little rocky out there. But if
you're doing it right in your position properly,
I think for 2026, then it can be fantastic. All
right. Enough about me, Becca. It's on to the
most fascinating part of our show. Rapid fire.
Are you ready for some questions? You get to
erase one corporate buzzword from existence.
What is it? Unprecedented. Good one. Nice. Yeah.
Okay. It's just trauma from 2020. Yes. And like
AI, like the last five years is unprecedented.
It is unprecedented times. You're about to give
a presentation in front of 50 ,000 people. What
song do you walk out on the stage to? I live
for the applause, applause, applause. Lady Gaga,
I live for the applause, applause. I get down
with that. I like it. I don't think anybody's
chosen that before. She's the first guest that's
actually sung the song. That's true. Yeah. Walk
the walk, sing the song. Gold stars for you.
If you had to do a TED Talk on anything but journalism,
communications, PR, what would the topic be?
The importance of playing sports when you're
younger. I just think it's transformative. I
think it teaches you discipline, collaboration,
creativity, camaraderie, and that helps you in
all aspects of your life. My last question before
I hand it over to Perry's unhinged madness is
you get to use one emoji for the rest of your
life. Which emoji? Probably the tilted, like
hysterically crying one because you can't take
it too seriously. Crying or laughing. This is
like a Rorschach test. Like crying, laughing,
crying, laughing. Yeah, I've made mistakes a
few times, but the side crying, laughing, sobbing
forward is. I'm going to give the ridiculous
question of the day. And I'm actually going to
go to the throwback question because I'm genuinely
curious, Meredith, what you would say. I think
I know what your answer is going to be. Becca,
you might have a guess too, but. I'm going to
ask the question now. Let's see if I'm right.
All right. You have to have hiccups around the
clock for six months straight. You cannot avoid
them. No matter what you do, you will be sleeping
with hiccups. You'll shower with hiccups. You
will do workouts with hiccups, hiccups, hiccups,
hiccups. Six months. Can't get rid of them. Or
to alleviate this, you have to chop off your
pinky. Do you keep the six months of hiccups
around the clock or do you sever the pinky? I
could have never predicted that question in a
million years. What a crazy. It's kind of like,
do you, do you, it's like a few seconds. I probably
would do the hiccups for six months because you
know, like you, there's a lot of challenges and
hard times that you're going to go through, but
it's temporary and it's all about your mindset
and getting through. Whereas your pinky, that's
going to be forever. And it's going to hamper
my ability to. cook for my family, go skiing
with my kids, be able to type and make a living.
So I think that people are so focused on vanity
and what will people think if I'm pinkiless with
whatever else. But I think that I would endure
the hiccups, figure out ways to have conversations
with folks on why I have the hiccups and kind
of normalize the conversation. Normalizing hiccups,
ladies and gentlemen. And then kind of get through
it and laugh about it afterwards. I'm actually
very shocked. I thought for sure you were going
to chop your pinky off. Because you seem like
you just like you want to get this shit over
with, like get it done. I thought you would go
with the severing of the pinky. I'm relieved,
though, because there's no chance in a million
years I would chop my pinky off or any digit
ever, ever, ever. I would do hiccups for a year
if I had to to keep my digits. Becca, on the
other hand, has a different take on that. I would.
Chop, chop. We chop it. Yeah. That's a hard question.
Cause like the, the, the, the Aries firstborn
daughter born and raised in New Jersey definitely
wants to Tony Soprano chop it and move on with
my life. But I feel like I've gotten so much
more deep and philosophical that I'm kind of
like, well, wait a second. Right. Like, cause
I've gone through so many like ups and downs
where I'm like, okay, what's the lesson. I get
it now. Right. Like, and I just feel like everything's
kind of a test. So for me, like, I think I would
want to try to barrel through the hiccups knowing
that like, eventually they're gone, but the pinky's
gone forever. And just to be fair, I said this
to Becca before, but I would hate to be around
someone that like, if my wife had hiccups for
six months, I'd be like, I think I'm moving out
for several months because I cannot stand being
in the midst of you. There's that. Kudos to you.
All right. I think that concludes the program.
Thanks so much for coming on, Meredith. We had
a great time. Where can people find you if they
want to follow along, participate, pitch you?
Where can they find you? Absolutely. You can
follow me on Meredith in the Media on Substack.
Catch me on LinkedIn and follow my byline on
Inc. Magazine. Let's go. All right, buddy. Thanks
for coming on.