Is this a honeybee we're talking about or is
it a yellow jacket? No, this is an aggressive
yellow jacket. Ooh. If it were an aggressive
yellow jacket, I might be able to take it. If
it's a honeybee, the answer is no because I'm
highly allergic and I would have to be doing
an EpiPen every single day. Okay. Yeah. Damn.
I don't think my body could take it. So yes to
pain, no to asphyxiation. Welcome to Under Embargo,
the podcast that says the quiet part out loud
about PR, communications, and the chaos in between.
Hosted by two of LinkedIn's most connected comms
pros, Becca Chambers, a no BS corporate comms
exec with raging ADHD, and Pari Hedrick, founder
of tech PR firm Crackle PR. This show brings
it all. Real talk, sharp insights, and the kind
of industry truth they don't put in press releases.
No fluff, no filters, no f***s given. This is
Under Embargo. Let's get into it. All right.
Welcome to today's episode of the Under Embargo
podcast, your favorite communications podcast,
obviously, with your favorite unhinged podcast
host. I am joined, as always, by PR's most opinionated
thought leader, Perry Hedrick, founder of Crackle
PR. And I'm Becca Chambers, CMO at Scale. Today,
we have a guest that I've actually known for,
let's go with many years. And I'm going to give
him a slightly longer intro than usual, just
because I know enough about him that I can do
it without having to do any research. But before
I do, let me just quickly introduce Ian Bain.
Ian, say hello to the audience. Hello, audience.
There you go. Now I'm going to give you your
long intro because the, let me start. Headline
for today is Ian is currently the Executive Director
of Strategy and Communications for the San Mateo
County Office of Education. That is a mouthful,
by the way, as far as title. What's the acronym?
Do you know the acronym? E -D -O -S -N -C for
the SMCO. I'm the comms leader. The strategy
bucket is everything else. SMCO. Love it. Okay.
But what makes Ian interesting, I mean, that
also makes Ian interesting, but what also makes...
God. But what also makes Ian interesting is over
the last 20 years, he has had this incredibly
ranging career arc that spans politics, tech
communications, both on the in -house side and
the agency side. And then now this public...
policy, I don't know what we call this, public
affairs, communications, whatever role on the
public side, which is super interesting. And
this is where everyone should really appreciate
this personal intro. Ian was once my boss 100
years ago, actually like 15 years ago, when I
was just a baby communicator in an exec comms
role in my first ever tech job. And not only
that, Ian was also the mayor of my town. And
that's Redwood City, by the way, in the Bay Area,
which is not only where I live now, it's where
I grew up. And I have a hundred year long family
history in this town. So this, you know, this
town means a lot. And Ian was the mayor of this
town. So it is this cool connection. Plus, he
was mayor during a time that. The Bay Area was
Redwood City specifically was going through a
little boom town because we're right smack dab
in the middle of Silicon Valley. So all of that
to say, I'm really excited to have you on the
show, Ian. You obviously have been my friend
and my former colleague, former mayor, and now
you are a current podcast guest. So with that,
let me ask you my very first question, which
is. Why all of the things? Why the path from
agency to in -house to becoming a mayor to now
working with the Department of Education? That's
a great opening question. And you neglected to
mention that I knew your grandparents before
I knew Becca. I think you were also her jujitsu
teacher, if I'm not mistaken. My spiritual guide.
No, sorry. Sherpa. I mean, you know, that's a
really open -ended question. And I'll just say
I'm someone who gets bored very easily. And so
I've always got to be doing something. You know,
my grandmother was the same way. And I just,
I feel like, you know, one job is never enough,
right? So. Amen. So you were doing multiple jobs
because you did the mayor thing while you were
there. I mean, in all seriousness, though, I,
you know, I grew up. learning that giving back
to your community was a noble thing to do and
i've always done that so even as i pursued my
career in corporate communications i felt like
it wasn't enough i wanted to give back to my
community i wanted to be able to see the difference
that i was making and so i managed to do a lot
of things using creative time management so before
we get too deep into the bio and the and the
q a i must ask you because becca put the gone
on the mantle, so we need to discharge it. How
was she as an employee back in the day? Becca
was awesome. I mean, we hit it off immediately.
I mean, it took us a while to piece together
that I knew her grandparents, but... You know,
Becca was doing presentations, executive communications,
and I appreciated, again, her attention to detail
and just, you know, her eye for what good design
looks like. And I actually think I learned some
things from her. She was great to work with.
Not to mention my winning personality, obviously.
And her humble demeanor, which is really, really
key. Very. Those go without saying. A quick aside
here again about Becca, and we'll get back on
track. So in the intervening years, you've probably
come to learn that she's neurodivergent and talks
about her challenges with the types of things
that I experience, having the same kind of affliction.
Did you know or were you aware back then about
those? proclivities or does it make sense in
retrospect? Yeah, it makes more sense in retrospect.
I'd say probably not a lot of us knew a lot about
neurodivergence back then. But, you know, I think
we've learned a lot as a society. And, you know,
I have members of my family who are ADHD. And,
you know, so, yeah, I mean, I can see that about
Becca. I see some of those things in myself as
well. So I think that's part of the reason why
we hit it off. Perfect. Neurodivergent people
do tend to love other neurodivergent people for
what it's worth. Anyway, carry on. So can we
talk a little bit about the landscape where you
physically are? So you guys, Redwood City, heart
of Silicon Valley. I've lived out there for many,
many years. I've been gone now for about 10 years.
I'm curious to know what you're seeing from just.
a day in the life in that part of the world.
You know, when I left about 10, 12 years ago,
it was still pretty jamming on the tech scene.
Everybody was pretty bullish and buoyant and,
you know, social media was just kind of really
coming on strong. And then we had this sort of
colossal dip in the tech scene. We had Salesforce's
issues downtown. What's the, what's the vibe
out in that part of the world right now? Well,
that's a big question as well. So like Becca,
I grew up in this area, primarily on the peninsula,
lived in the East Bay for a little bit. And so
when I was growing up, this was kind of a normal
place, or at least I thought it was, where not
everything revolved around tech. My dad happened
to be a computer programmer, which is what brought
my parents to California. So I've always kind
of been tech adjacent, aware of it, but it didn't
really explode the way that it did. kind of took
over our economy until i think probably in the
90s yeah so you had people in my neighborhood
growing up who their parents were of all professions
and then that kind of like went away and then
everybody was in tech and then um you know like
you said the tech uh industry is kind of going
through some changes right now and i and what
i'm seeing is kind of a return to a variety of
different professions. I mean, I was in the tech
world until recently. I just joined the County
Office of Education in March after kind of reaching
a crossroads in my career and asking myself whether
I wanted to stay in the tech world. And it's
been really refreshing to see, you know. the
other side where you're not in the tech world.
So, you know, the community has changed. I'd
say, you know, from the standpoint of being on
the city council, watching this big development
boom that Becca alluded to, that boom has really
slowed down. And, you know, there are still buildings
being constructed, but we have a glut of office
buildings on the market. There are many buildings
that are empty right now. And still more being
built in real time. It's crazy. The construction
that was approved 10 years ago is now getting
done. Everyone works from home, so there's nobody
to occupy them. I think there's going to be a
return to office. There seems to be, at least
with developers, a prevailing view that we're
on the end of some pendulum swing. We're going
to swing back and then everybody's going to come
back to the office and buildings are going to
fill up again. We'll see about that. I think
some of the construction we're seeing right now
is hospitals and other types of buildings beyond
just tech offices. But you know what there's
not enough of is housing because the Bay Area
is very expensive to live. There's never enough.
And it's not the type of housing. The type of
housing that's being built is not the type of
housing that people are looking for. Also, to
answer your question earlier, Perry, like. the
pandemic totally changed the Bay area, like totally
changed, you know, went from San Francisco was
the place to be to nobody wanted to be in San
Francisco anymore. I think that has, there is
a shift back now, but it's like, because so many
people moved away from the city, not everybody's
going back, but there's a whole rush of new people
coming into the city. So I do feel like we're
kind of, and I think it's AI, this new kind of
energy that is reflective of, old san francisco
i think but it's like in the early days and um
i have yet to determine if that's a good thing
or a bad thing and we may be in this ai bubble
so we'll see it's hard to know what changes are
permanent and what are temporary too i mean yeah
yogi vera once said the hardest thing to predict
is the future right yeah well there's that i
happen to believe that the pendulum won't swing
back in the way that it was ever just because
It's like once you see something, you can't unsee
it. You can get some personal. When you have
a taste of personal liberty, you understand it's
delicious. And if you don't have to go into the
office five days a week, you tend to not want
to do that anymore. But isn't it like anything
where like when we're going through a transition,
we tend to go to the extreme, right? It's like.
One or the other. And what we're really doing
is we're just kind of like it's all kind of settling
out now. Well, there will be some people in offices,
some people not like we're not there yet to the
settled out version of that. But I don't think
it's going to like swing one way or the other.
I think it's just going to kind of like all of
it will be part of the landscape, you know, the
new norm. The new norm. So tell us about your
day job now, Ian. Walk us through what a typical
week looks like for you. You don't have to get
too granular, but give us like the big rocks.
Yeah, so the big rocks are I oversee our communications
team, which is a small team that does things
like press releases and updating the website
and more recently doing a lot of video about
the programs that the county office does. Because
prior to joining the county office, even though
I knew the superintendent, some of the board
members, I couldn't tell you what the county
office did. And so I'm spending a lot of time
getting the word out about what we do and how
we're supporting schools. especially in this
time when local education is more important than
ever. Come back to that piece. I also oversee
the environmental literacy team. So that's a
team that teaches teachers how to teach environmental
literacy to kids. We work with a nonprofit called
10 Strands, and we developed a statewide curriculum
on environmental literacy. And and then the strategy
part of my title, I think, refers to a few things.
So first of all, I advise the superintendent
and the board on a number of issues. And that's
where my elected experience comes in handy, because
both our superintendent and the board are elected.
And that creates some interesting dynamics that
I think I'm uniquely qualified to help navigate.
And then, you know, again, I like to refer to
the strategy bucket as kind of like. other duties
as a sign like basically whatever the superintendent
needs me to do kind of gets lumped into the strategy
bucket but um i do think uh i was gonna ask you
what what are the the bureaucratic layers like
uh relative to the corporate world i'm not looking
for you to throw your your current gig under
the bus in any way but my understanding is generally
it's a little harder to get things moved through
is that accurate it's it's different And this
is the first government agency that I've worked
for full time. We talked about the fact that
I served part time on the city council, but I
wasn't an employee of the city of Redwood City.
So as a government agency, you do need to think
a little bit differently, particularly when it
comes to spending money, because we're accountable
to the taxpayers, which is a big part of the
reason why I want the taxpayers to know what
we're doing and the programs that we're running.
but yeah there are a lot of little things that
i kind of took for granted in the corporate world
like for example uh you know taking a colleague
out to lunch and expensing it Here, we can't
do that. If I go out to lunch with a colleague,
we split the bill. It comes out of our pockets.
I have an employee. You go together and forage
for berries and eat them together. Yeah. Yeah.
Well, you know, I understand it. It's, you know,
it's taxpayer money, especially at a time when,
you know, education is under scrutiny. You know,
we have to be very careful about that sort of
thing. But in terms of the bureaucracy. Again,
it's different, but I think if you have the right
personality, you know how to push things forward,
how to drive projects, you can push through a
lot of that. For example, when I came here, I
heard a lot about how our website wasn't very
good and we needed a new website. And it was
some old technology, really clunky on the back
end. And I approached it the way that I would
in the private sector. And I said, OK, I'm going
to get three vendors to pitch me. I'm going to
invite people into those pitches. I'm going to
ask a bunch of questions, kick all the tires
and everything. Working closely with our IT department,
we got, by the time I joined, to the time we
launched your website was four months and people
who didn't come from the private sector who were
working here at the county office are like how
did you do that yeah I mean, even in the private
sector, that is a highly impressive timeline
as somebody who's building a website right now
and continue to delay my launch date. Well done.
I take it back. I misspoke. It was five months.
But still, that's light speed when it comes to
a government agency. And I think it's finding
the right people to partner with. What do you
need to do? Which hurdles do you need to jump
through? And kind of like looking ahead and thinking,
how do I get ahead of that? You know, and I think
it's, you know, a part of it is just the culture
I came from where, you know, everybody was hard
driving and fast moving. Well, that actually
leads me to one of my questions that I had for
you. And what has been the biggest mindset shift
or the hardest thing to kind of learn or relearn
or change about? the way that you work because
you have this long career and now you're doing
something completely new the hardest thing well
you know i think um so first of all everyone
i work with has been super nice and welcoming
i'd say the hardest thing for me is that branding
is not well understood at the county office and
so i've had to do a lot of education about you
know why we need to do things a certain way use
certain colors look and feel logo placement and
that's just not something that comes naturally
to people who have grown up in education and
so there's there's been a lot of education about
why we need to do these things and why i tend
to focus so much on things that maybe don't seem
that important to to some folks around here i
think i can envision almost like a parks and
rec type show that you guys can do where you're
the corporate you know outsider joining the uh
joining the government group and the clash and
the hilarity that ensues A whole episode just
on vendor procurement. Maybe I'll write a TV
show about it. I mean, I'd watch it. Talk about
AI in your world. So obviously AI is eating the
world, but in corporate America in particular,
government, not so much. They're typically slower
to adopt and all that. What's the posture like
where you work? Are you using AI? To what extent
is there sort of fear about it? What's the story?
That's a lot of questions rolled in. Let me ask
15 more real quick. Let me just say that, you
know, so I think, you know, so the county office,
part of our role is, you know, we don't oversee
the school districts, but we guide the districts.
And so we have a role to play in teaching classrooms
how to use AI. We have a role in teaching classrooms
about our teachers, school districts about school
safety and how to prevent some of the abuses
of AI. And I also personally use AI as a tool
in things like some of the videos that are on
our website. And just a couple of examples of
that. I'm working on a video about paraeducators,
like what is the job of a paraeducator and why
would you want to do that job? And that's a bit
tricky because if you're not familiar with paraeducators,
they work with kids who have significant disabilities,
which, you know, it can be a hard job. So you
don't want to scare people off, but you don't
want to glamorize it at the same time. So I basically
I started with a job description and I started
working that into a video script. And I'm going,
you know what, I'm really struggling with this.
And I put it through AI and I said, turn this
into a two minute video script. And when it came
back, it was actually. pretty good and so i i
massaged it and then i put it through another
tool an ai voice generator tool and that voice
came back as you know really good and so now
i've got a voiceover for a video that is in production
and that's enabled us to really speed the process
of telling the story about what we do and that's
how we kill video production in america gang
we have we have an in -house multimedia designer
and he's awesome. And so we collaborate and his
job's not going anywhere. Yeah, I tease, but
that is really cool. I like what you do. What
tool did you use for your voiceover? I used a
tool called 11 Labs. Yeah, 11 Labs. Yep. And
the AI voices just keep getting better and better.
Totally. I originally used it as a tool just
to kind of draft videos and go like, okay, how
does this sound? and then we would pay a service
called voice talent now to do a human voiceover
and so you know we would do like there's one
on our home page about the county office that's
a human voiceover but some of them we've actually
done that and go you know what the ai voice is
actually better than the voiceover we paid wow
so some of them are ai some of their are humans
and i uh you know i challenge you to tell the
difference that's yeah are you in the are you
in the office every day I come to the office
every day. So the county office has a policy
that after six months, you can work one day a
week remotely. But since I live in Redwood City
and the county office is here in Redwood City
in the shores, I just come in every day. It's
just easier. Do you constantly run into people
that you knew from being mayor? As a matter of
fact, well, so I knew our superintendent when
she was running for superintendent. And I was
actually vice mayor at the time. And we sat down
and it was a competitive race. And a lot of my
colleagues were endorsing her opponent. But I
sat down with her and said, you know, she's the
right choice. I asked her a bunch of tough questions.
I interviewed her, never thinking I would be
working for her in the future. And then I also
knew, again, several of our board members. And
turns out I also know some people here in the
office who I'd worked with when they were principals
at local schools or one person worked in the
HR department in the city of Redwood City. So
I came in here knowing a handful of people. It's
good to be mayor. You know, it doesn't hurt.
And the most important thing about this job is
because part of it's externally facing, I go
to events, I speak on behalf of the county office.
I already know all of our board of supervisors.
I know many of the school board members and city
council members. And so that gives me a big advantage
doing those. What's the relationship like with
the local media? I would imagine that's under
your purview, too. And can you talk a little
bit about what that sort of ebb and flow is?
Yeah. And, you know, that's another advantage
I have is because I worked with a lot of the
local media when I was on the city council. Yeah.
And then, of course, you know, I just know about
media relations in general. And so I have those
relationships. I recently sat down with the editor
of one of the papers and we talked about all
the things that he was interested in. I talked
about all the things that we were doing and they've
given us some really good coverage on programs
that really weren't getting coverage before.
Are you pitching them? Yeah. Yeah. So, I mean,
I'm selective about the stories I pitch. So,
for example, in April, we won a Green Achiever
Award from California Green Ribbon Schools. And
that's for all the sustainability work that we've
done. And so we had a big celebration here at
the county office. We had a couple hundred people.
We had the state superintendent come. And so
I called up the reporter and I said, hey, we're
having this big to do here. And so we got some
coverage on that. And we recently did an e -bike
safety handbook. And so I called several local
reporters. We got lots of stories out of that.
I like to say we got lots of mileage out of that
story. So, yes, I'm practically – That must have
been one hell of a press cycle. You know what
I'm saying? Thank you. Awesome. My wheels are
turning now. You should do PR. You guys put the
brakes on it. But, yeah, I mean – Like I said,
prior to joining the county office or interviewing
for the county office, I didn't know about a
lot of these things. So I'm really passionate
about getting these stories out there so people
know the good work we're doing. When we worked
together, we worked in cybersecurity, which is
just a cluster F of crisis comms on a regular
basis. We also worked at McAfee when John McAfee
was murdering people and stuff. Crisis is in
our blood at this point. What does crisis comms
look like in the public sector in your current
role? Part of what we do is we work towards safe
schools and communities. So after the tragedy
at Sandy Hook in 2012, county leaders came together
and said, you know what, we've got to come up
with a series of protocols for all the bad things
that could happen on a school campus. And so
the county office has really led the way and
we've developed something we call the Big Five.
So those are things like shelter in place, lockdown.
All sorts of things like that. And we work very
closely with local law enforcement and school
districts and city council members to ensure
that everyone's following these protocols. And
now we're exporting those to other communities
like Monterey and Marin have adopted these as
well. So, I mean, I think you can imagine the
scenarios. I'd rather not get into what we. can
anticipate or prepare for here. But, you know,
let's just say I feel like we're better prepared
for those emergencies, God forbid, than other
communities across the nation have been in the
past. other than those like major events that
we shall not name for sake of sanity are there
like day -to -day like crises that pop up in
your world or is it really just kind of the big
things you hope never happen well no no big crises
like the founder being a person of interest in
a murder investigation Yet. But no, you know,
we do have, you know, small things that come
up or I won't say small things, but there are
things that happen on school campuses that, you
know, they can blow up and turn into some big
thing. One of the schools in our district, they
actually did work with an anonymous reporting
tool to say, hey, there's a student who's threatening
violence. And they went to that student's home
and they actually did find weapons in that home.
So we do deal with things like that. I'm hoping
every day that we don't have a major incident
that we have to deal with. But we have had some
issues like that that we've had to deal with.
I have one follow on and then Perry, I'll shut
up because I know you've been trying to get a
question in. Anytime there is some newsworthy
event in a school in your county, does that go
to you? Is that how it works? So some of the
districts have their own school communicators.
And we work very closely with those communicators
coordinating messages. And they know that I'm
here for them as a sounding board. But they operate
independently because their boards are elected
and then they appoint their superintendents and
the superintendent chooses the communicator.
In smaller districts, they don't have school
communicators. So those districts, they... rely
on me more heavily. And so my predecessor, I
know during COVID, they were calling her office
constantly asking for guidance on communications.
So it hasn't been quite that active. It's more,
you know, we're in a good place right now where
thankfully we're not dealing with an ongoing
crisis. We're trying to help the schools and
the districts get the word out about what they're
doing and helping them become better communicators
with their communities. So I'm going to enjoy
that as long as it lasts. If, God forbid, things
flip and we have to deal with a crisis, they
all know that I'm here for them. So I was wondering,
you talked about teaching kids environmental
literacy and you talked a lot about, you know,
preparing people for the future. I'm wondering
what your view of is of some. sort of AI literacy
in the early years. And it's a reoccurring theme
on this podcast where Becca and I talk with a
lot of different people about how, in our view,
people coming out of school are generally woefully
unprepared for the reality that's going to smack
them across the face in corporate America, where
AI is just dominating everything and people at
the junior levels are getting kind of wiped out.
Well, how do you how do you view some sort of
AI literacy at the younger levels, given that
there's also ethical concerns that you have to
grapple with? Yeah. Again, this is a huge topic
that you could slice and dice a number of different
ways. I do think that students need to have at
all ages an understanding of what the tools are
and how they should be used. And so I think there's
a role for the county office to provide more
guidance to the districts. I mentioned we did
that e -bike handbook. I think we have the opportunity
to do an AI handbook. But the problem is, like,
how do you slice it? Because you can look at
it through the lens of curriculum. You can look
at it through the lens of school safety. You
can look at the lens of, you know, tools you
can use. So I can envision, and I'm not speaking
for the county office when I say this, but I
can envision a scenario where teachers in the
classroom... have a kid write an essay in the
classroom. And then they say, okay, now run that
essay through AI and see what it comes back with
for refinement. And then on top of that, they
say, okay, like now refine it based on the AI.
And I think that could teach kids how to use
tools effectively and also learn from it. Because
I do believe that kids could learn by doing that
process and then come out of the schools knowing
how to use certain tools. Like when it comes
to writing, for example. But, you know, at the
same time, there's also the angle of, you know,
we got to teach kids how to use it responsibly,
which is, you know, I think that's an even bigger
challenge, which is, you know, there are, you
know, face swapping tools and things like that.
Kids will, you know, they'll make things that
are inappropriate to, you know. to blackmail
another kid and you know that's a that's a harder
issue to tackle yeah i almost view it as like
a like an ai survival guide that maybe encompasses
the best of all those buckets right where we're
we're we're arming you for what you are likely
to encounter in the world but we're also sort
of safeguarding you against the potential pitfalls
that you just described Well, survival guide
may even be a better word for it. And, you know,
I think, you know, the other thing to consider,
too, is how it's going to impact jobs in the
future, because it is taking away a lot of entry
level jobs, particularly in tech. And that's
where, you know, I think we've come to a realization
as a society that, you know, not all jobs are
in tech. Part of what we do is career technical
education, where we teach kids skills in different
industries, like, you know, let's say the maritime
industry. We've got a port in Redwood City and
there are a lot of jobs associated with the port
that don't necessarily require a college degree.
Those are things kids can learn in high school
to sort of future proof themselves against, you
know, all the jobs that AI is going to take away.
You know, I hate to be pessimistic about that,
but I think we're. we're on the verge of like
some real major market changes and we don't fully
understand what that's going to be yet. I also
think that's why it's important that AI is a
conversation in school. It can't just be like,
we can only teach kids how to be safe with it.
Like you have to teach them how to use it because
otherwise they will be left behind. Like they
should be the ones innovating in that space.
The way that kids were the ones innovating with
coding back when I was a kid and developing all
the first, you know software programs and then
um social media right like i think there's just
all of these waves of things that there is like
a ton of bad that can come and so us adults are
like oh no but if you give the kids the tools
and the guard rails and freedom i guess to uh
I think they will actually probably be the ones
leading the way in AI safety because they will
understand it better, you know? You know, and
I think hand in hand with learning the technology
needs to be ethics. You know, we need to teach
our kids right, wrong. And I do think there's
a role for schools to play, not just abdicating
that to parents and say, oh, parents know right
and wrong. It's like they don't always know right
and wrong. Well, because they sure as hell don't
know AI the way kids do. It's tough to be the
arbiter of morality when you don't even know
what they're talking about or using. Yeah. So,
I mean, I think that like teaching kids ethics
at the same time you teach them about technology
could possibly have some really positive benefits,
especially if those kids, if they want to go
on a career in coding, if they want to help influence
this future of AI. You know, I mean, I think
that's what we need to communicate to them is,
you know, look, AI is still young and we have
the opportunity to influence it for good or bad.
And you want to be on the side of good. How do
you think AI is going to affect the communications
industry writ large in, let's say, even five
years? Well, I think it's already impacting communications
jobs, again, particularly on the entry level.
But I really think on all levels, there are companies,
particularly less sophisticated tech companies,
who are going, you know what, we don't really
need a comms person because I can just... crank
out a press release. How long is that going to
last though? Like that might be like a bandaid
right now, but it's not effective. And at some
point people are going to stop doing things that
don't work. Right. Yeah. You're preaching to
the choir. That's why I said less sophisticated
companies. I think, you know, we, they, you know,
good, strong companies, we know they have effective
communicators like us in -house who understand
more than how to just write a press release.
And, you know, also, you know, teaching the executives
how to communicate better themselves. You know,
I think that the companies who do away with their
comms team are going to really pay the price
in a couple of years. You know, they'll just
be natural selection that takes place because.
they're not going to get their messages out the
way that they need to no i think that's right
and i think the uh the data are pretty clear
that some of the most happening brands right
now especially in tech they're bringing some
of the best reporters and comms pros in -house
right now because yes they're using these tools
but they're using really really talented, professional
communicators and writers to tame the machines,
essentially. So they use them as tools, which
is what they are. But the humans are going to
ultimately shape the direction of the company.
And I think that's a trend that's going to increase,
not decrease. And to your point, the less sophisticated
companies, they're whistling past the graveyard.
If they're just outsourcing everything to Claude
and ChatGPT, they're in for a very rude awakening,
is my view. That's a great way of putting it.
Oh, thank you. See? Okay, can I ask you kind
of, I mean, it's along these lines and it's one
of those, I guess, big questions that you can
only ask people who have had big careers. So
if you were going to, and you probably do give
advice to somebody who is early in their career,
pretend you're talking to me, the young Becca
that was in her 20s when you were my boss. But
now, what is the advice? Because the advice that
you would give 15 years ago is totally different
than advice you would give now, I assume. What
is the advice to the comms person for what to
do to be successful in their career? That's a
good question. I would say. diversify your skills.
Like don't just be a good writer, like learn
graphic design, learn how to use all the tools
to do all these things and understand the intersection
of how everything comes together to create a
great marketing program. Even just like within
communications, like understand all the other
functions, growth marketing, product marketing,
like know your stuff. Like, you know, if you
know your stuff, it comes through. And I'd say
the other thing is probably like understanding
at least a little bit about psychology, like
know how to read people, know how to understand
what their needs and desires are and and learn
how to tie your skills to their needs. I tell
people who are interviewing, it's like people
don't care about you and what you've done in
your career and your accomplishments, your awards.
They care about what you're going to do for them.
You know, and so I always tell people that it's
like, understand, ask them, like, what are you
looking for? And then you tie your skills into
that. Well, that kind of goes into the psychology
piece. That is true for any transaction, right?
Anything. I want you to be on my podcast. What's
in it for you, right? You're not just going to
do it out of the goodness of your heart. Like
you are going to get some sort of. lift, content,
something fun, joy from seeing our faces. I'm
just doing it because I love you, Becca. Joy
from seeing your face in particular. It's the
joy. Yes. Anyway, I say that cheekily, but it's
true that, and that's the advice I give to people
who are like, how do you get people to have a
coffee talk with you or whatever? And it's like,
you don't just ping them randomly and say, hey,
can we have a coffee talk? It's like, you have
a... you create value for that person so that
they can create value for you. And I think in
your role, that's like the best thing anyone
can do, especially in a comms role where people
minimize you and think that you're just like
the words or shapes and colors person when it's
like. But I can actually add value to your life.
And here's how. Yeah, you can't just be the make
that pretty person. Is there a job that you desperately
wanted in and actively tried to get and didn't
get? Was there a heartbreak that that happened
to you professionally? You mean like a company
that I wanted to work? Any job at all? Anything
that you were like, damn it, that would have
been like ideal for me. Well, I mean, there have
definitely been jobs that I've interviewed for
that I really, really wanted and sometimes came
close to getting. But then in retrospect, I realized.
I dodged a bullet there. I think I can know some
of what I'm talking about. Totally dodged some
bullets. Yes. You know, so I mean, there's not
one that I look back, like I didn't interview
with Google in the early days or anything like
that. So there's nothing where I go like, you
know, darn, I missed out on that opportunity.
I mean, I do wish that I'd gotten into certain
companies and been able to reap some of the financial
benefits. I've never had the opportunity to go
through an IPO, for example. And I have worked
for pre -IPO companies that just never, never
really went anywhere. So, you know, it's like
I don't look back and go like, I wish that had
happened or this had happened. I'm actually just
kind of happy with where I am right now. Would
you do more politics? Like you did the mayor
thing and that is an elected official, right?
You had to campaign. And the reason why Ian knows
my grandparents is because my grandparents were
small business owners in Redwood City for many
decades. And so he was out doing the rounds and
meeting all of the small business owners to get
them to donate to his campaign and support him.
So would you do it again? Well, I'll just say.
I'm one of those people who believes in never
say never. I have no plans to run for office
in the future. Certainly, I'm not going to run
for city council again. I've been there, done
that, spent many years in the council more than
I want to say. A couple of years back, one of
the local papers was floating my name as a candidate
for county supervisor. And I got a lot of calls
from people, including people who are on the
board of supervisors saying, hey, would you consider
this? And I thought about it for a minute, but
actually. at the time, felt like it wasn't the
right time in my life. I was actually doing well
in my corporate career. And, you know, frankly,
the county supervisor position didn't pay what
I was making. And so I had to weigh my options
in terms of, like, you know, taking care of my
family's needs versus, like, my interest in serving
in public office. And so, again, never say never,
but no plans at this point. Well, I will vote
for you when you decide to run again. I appreciate
that. Okay. I'm going to pivot us to our rapid
fire questions, which Ian, I don't know if you've
watched or listened to our podcast. We do this
at the end of every show. We ask mostly the same
questions of everybody. Although this time I'm
adding a new question because I have a new one
that I think is relevant that I'm going to add
starting today, moving forward. But then Perry
asks a unhinged question that I don't even know
what it is. He's going to bring it. And I apologize
in advance for whatever it is. How dare you?
So first, easy ones. You get to erase one corporate
buzzword from existence. What is it? Corporate
buzzword. I don't know. Maybe take that offline.
Yeah, nice. That just sounds like you want to
fight with someone. Let's take this offline,
bro. I catch myself saying that. I'm like, oh,
God, stop it. I cringe when I say a lot of the
things, which I do all the time. Okay, you're
going to give a presentation in front of 50 ,000
people. What's the song you walk out to? Oh,
that's easy. The theme song from Shaft. What's
the theme song from Shaft? Oh, yeah. What do
they say, Shaft? Isaac Hayes. Yeah. Oh, my God.
That's interesting. Why that one? Because he
is one cool cat. Ah, nice. Like nothing says,
you know, coolness and swagger than that. That's
a good one. Okay, I like it. Okay, if you had
to do a TED Talk on anything other than communications
or politics, things you worked in, what would
it be? Okay, do I have to be an expert in this
subject? You're going to get up and do a TED
Talk. I don't know. You know what? I mean, I
can see, like we talked a lot about AI. I can
see use cases for applying AI to solve the world's
toughest challenges when it comes to climate
change, when it comes to foreign wars, you know.
And I would love to talk about, you know, what's
possible if AI were applied in the right way
to change the world. I like that. That's like
existential. Yeah. um okay you only get to use
one emoji for the rest of your life which one
uh you know um i probably do the thumbs up more
than i should um i think i probably the one i
use probably the most is just the basic smiley
face i think like you know let's let's just have
a basic smile and smile. You're a vanilla emoji
user. And also very optimistic too. Like most
people are like, I use the melty face or I use
the poop emoji. You're like thumbs up and smile.
I'll be honest. Yeah. I'm not an emoji guy. I
only had one. I just use the basic smiley. Basic
bitch emoji user. Okay. This is my new question
for rapid fire questions. And what is your favorite
AI tool of the moment? Of the moment, I'm going
to go with 11 Labs. That's the voice tool that
I use. And they've just got a lot of different
types of voices and they're very realistic. And
it's fun to, you know, to hear what it says.
Solid. Put the words in its mouth and it'll say
it. And with that, I will hand it over to my
unhinged. uh co -host yeah well this is the most
important question of the podcast i think you
can sense the gravitas um that's about to come
your way so here's a hypothetical for you you
are free to enjoy 25 million dollars in cash
no taxes taken out you can take it put it right
in your bank and walk away right off into the
sunset enjoy it for the rest of your life in
exchange for one time per day Every single day
of your life until you die, you will be stung
by one bee. And not only that, you don't know
when it's going to happen. It'll happen maybe
when you're sleeping, maybe when you're in the
shower, maybe when you're at work and it'll be
filmed. The sting will be filmed and you'll be
covered. So there's no weirdness, but it'll be
filmed and your reactions will be posted on Instagram.
Every time you're stung once a day, it'll be
up on an Instagram that is wildly popular. I
almost feel like the latter part makes you want
to do it more because at least there's like a
positive outcome. You will be captured getting
stung uncomfortably as hell one time per day
until you die. And every day will be posted on
Instagram on a dedicated channel that is watched
by millions. You're creating excellent content.
I mean, yeah. You're answering for him. Let him
answer. I'm just, I'm adding context. And is
this a honeybee we're talking about or is it
a yellow jacket? No, this is an aggressive yellow
jacket. If it were an aggressive yellow jacket,
I might be able to take it. If it's a honeybee,
the answer is no, because I'm highly allergic
and I would have to be doing an EpiPen every
single day. Okay. Yeah. I don't think my body
could take it. So yes to pain, no to asphyxiation.
So you would get stung, surprise stung, every
single day for the rest of your life. I've been
stung by yellow jackets. It's manageable. If
I got stung by a bee, that would be a different
story. My body wouldn't be able to take it. Now
I understand why you have the shaft theme song,
because that's pretty badass. I'm not going to
get stung by a bee every day for the rest of
my life. That's not worth it. I don't even think
I would take it if somebody was going to like.
Scare me every day. Like I don't like being,
you know, like I don't even think I would take
it then. It's like not worth it for me to have
my nervous system. But imagine that. I mean,
I'm thinking of starting just an Instagram page
of just people getting stunk. I think that's
hilarious. I mean, that's what AI is for. You
could just have Sora make you videos all day
long. It's aggressive. It hurts, but no one's
going to die as long as you're not allergic.
So it's funny enough and just sadistic enough
to be catchy. Well, there you go. That's your
next business, right? Wasp influencer. Although
I did go down a deep dive of people who go and
like remove infestations from people's houses
and stuff. Those are crazy cool videos. You should
watch them if you haven't, where they go and
they like pull off like roof panels. And then
there's like these massive, massive like, you
know. Feet long beehives and they find the queen
and pull them out. They are so cavalier about
it too, these people. I've seen these videos.
I've gone down the same rat hole. I'd be like,
oh my God, how are you doing that? The whole
time you're watching it, you're just like, oh
my God, oh my God. Because not only are they
doing this with the bees, they're like, you know,
hanging off the side of a building while they
do it and like eating lunch. It's crazy. Yeah,
I'll pass on that job. Yeah, well. You have too
many other jobs. Yeah, especially jujitsu. You
got to diversify, but not that much. All right,
Ian, I'm going to give you the final word. Is
there anything you would like our viewers slash
listeners to know or take away? Be kind to each
other. You know, life's too short. And, you know,
we're all in this together. How about that? Smile
emoji and thumbs up emoji, my man. Thank you.