WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:04.540 They did a survey that said 89 % of the answers 00:00:04.540 --> 00:00:08.019 delivered via LLMs are essentially earned media. 00:00:08.640 --> 00:00:12.660 That's a watershed moment in the PR industry 00:00:12.660 --> 00:00:14.460 in particular, but communications writ large. 00:00:14.660 --> 00:00:22.039 Guess who matters now, bitches? Welcome to Under 00:00:22.039 --> 00:00:24.579 Embargo, the podcast that says the quiet part 00:00:24.579 --> 00:00:27.539 out loud about PR, communications, and the chaos 00:00:27.539 --> 00:00:30.469 in between. Hosted by two of LinkedIn's most 00:00:30.469 --> 00:00:33.770 connected comms pros, Becca Chambers, a no BS 00:00:33.770 --> 00:00:37.450 corporate comms exec with raging ADHD, and Pari 00:00:37.450 --> 00:00:39.909 Hedrick, founder of tech PR firm Crackle PR. 00:00:40.329 --> 00:00:43.630 This show brings it all. Real talk, sharp insights, 00:00:43.789 --> 00:00:46.009 and the kind of industry truths they don't put 00:00:46.009 --> 00:00:49.810 in press releases. No fluff, no filters, no f***s 00:00:49.810 --> 00:00:52.810 given. This is Under Embargo. Let's get into 00:00:52.810 --> 00:00:58.689 it. Hello, everybody, and welcome back to the 00:00:58.689 --> 00:01:01.609 Under Embargo podcast. I am one half of your 00:01:01.609 --> 00:01:04.370 hosting team, Perry Hedrick, founder of Crackle, 00:01:04.430 --> 00:01:07.150 which is a tech PR agency. I'm joined, as always, 00:01:07.269 --> 00:01:10.489 by the illustrious Becca Chambers, who is CMO 00:01:10.489 --> 00:01:13.810 of Scale Venture Partners. And today we're pretty 00:01:13.810 --> 00:01:16.069 excited. I'm excited personally to introduce 00:01:16.069 --> 00:01:18.269 our guest, who I have known of and been in the 00:01:18.269 --> 00:01:21.329 same circles with for a bunch of years, not that 00:01:21.329 --> 00:01:22.930 many years, because, of course, we're still very 00:01:22.930 --> 00:01:26.400 young and very sprightly. But her name is Ginny 00:01:26.400 --> 00:01:29.159 Dietrich, and I'm sure many of you know who I'm 00:01:29.159 --> 00:01:31.019 talking about. But I'm going to introduce her 00:01:31.019 --> 00:01:33.019 anyway and explain what she does. But I would 00:01:33.019 --> 00:01:35.040 guarantee you probably 90 % of the people listening 00:01:35.040 --> 00:01:36.760 today already kind of have a sense for where 00:01:36.760 --> 00:01:40.980 this is going. So Ginny is a prolific author, 00:01:41.239 --> 00:01:45.640 community. owner of spin sucks she is an author 00:01:45.640 --> 00:01:49.159 of spin sucks the book she is an agency owner 00:01:49.159 --> 00:01:52.700 she is a podcaster she is probably most famously 00:01:52.700 --> 00:01:55.599 and most germane to today's discussion the chief 00:01:55.599 --> 00:01:57.980 architect really of the peso model which has 00:01:57.980 --> 00:02:00.719 been an underpinning at a lot of communications 00:02:00.719 --> 00:02:03.760 firms and you know, in the agency world for a 00:02:03.760 --> 00:02:06.140 long, long time. And I know that's gone through 00:02:06.140 --> 00:02:08.800 some interesting evolutions recently with the 00:02:08.800 --> 00:02:11.439 advent of AI. And so we'll get into all that. 00:02:11.520 --> 00:02:13.860 But I wanted to say welcome aboard today, Jenny. 00:02:15.539 --> 00:02:18.360 Thank you very much. Oh, wow. I'm doing a good 00:02:18.360 --> 00:02:24.110 job already. Outstanding. So, Jenny, I think 00:02:24.110 --> 00:02:26.650 I want to start with the elephant in the room. 00:02:26.710 --> 00:02:30.409 Everybody knows you as the architect of the Peso 00:02:30.409 --> 00:02:32.389 model. I actually told my staff today that I 00:02:32.389 --> 00:02:33.849 was going to do a podcast with you, and they're 00:02:33.849 --> 00:02:36.729 like, ah, Peso model, spin socks, that's awesome. 00:02:36.789 --> 00:02:39.490 You're going to have a great time. But for the 00:02:39.490 --> 00:02:41.689 two or three people that are going to be listening 00:02:41.689 --> 00:02:44.889 to this that aren't familiar yet with what that 00:02:44.889 --> 00:02:46.469 model is, would you mind just kind of taking 00:02:46.469 --> 00:02:49.530 us back to the beginning and how this formulated? 00:02:50.620 --> 00:02:52.419 And then we'll talk a little bit next about where 00:02:52.419 --> 00:02:55.039 it is today. Sure. Yeah. It's actually kind of 00:02:55.039 --> 00:02:56.599 funny because they say all the time, if I had 00:02:56.599 --> 00:03:00.199 known what it was going to do, I would have done 00:03:00.199 --> 00:03:05.039 things a lot differently. But I wrote about the 00:03:05.039 --> 00:03:07.159 Peso model in Spin Sucks, the book, which was 00:03:07.159 --> 00:03:09.060 published in 2014. So I was writing about it 00:03:09.060 --> 00:03:13.979 in 2013, right? Yeah. Really, what it was at 00:03:13.979 --> 00:03:17.280 that point was, and you'll appreciate this, especially 00:03:17.280 --> 00:03:23.300 you, Perry, as a PR firm owner. We did media 00:03:23.300 --> 00:03:25.580 relations, crisis, reputation, that kind of some 00:03:25.580 --> 00:03:27.900 events, things like that, right? And it was very 00:03:27.900 --> 00:03:32.180 traditional PR firm. And we had clients who were 00:03:32.180 --> 00:03:36.099 like, this is great whenever we had media coverage. 00:03:36.759 --> 00:03:39.580 and then they're like this sucks when there wasn't 00:03:39.580 --> 00:03:42.139 and they weren't what i found is that they weren't 00:03:42.139 --> 00:03:44.620 super willing to pay for the times that there 00:03:44.620 --> 00:03:46.800 wasn't any media coverage even though we needed 00:03:46.800 --> 00:03:49.819 that time to prepare for the next round right 00:03:49.819 --> 00:03:55.979 and i remember we had this huge event and we 00:03:55.979 --> 00:03:58.560 had the wall street journal on the front page 00:03:58.560 --> 00:04:00.560 right below the fold we had the front page of 00:04:00.560 --> 00:04:03.039 the la times we had harvard business review and 00:04:03.039 --> 00:04:06.270 forbes and fortune like the pinnacle of Meteor. 00:04:07.090 --> 00:04:10.669 Right. I mean, just like exactly what you want. 00:04:11.050 --> 00:04:14.349 And after those stories ran the very next day, 00:04:14.490 --> 00:04:17.129 I got a FedEx package from the CEO of the client. 00:04:17.589 --> 00:04:20.129 And I thought, oh, well, this is exciting. He's 00:04:20.129 --> 00:04:22.189 sending us like a congratulations. This is amazing. 00:04:22.689 --> 00:04:25.449 And I opened it up. And in the package is the 00:04:25.449 --> 00:04:27.610 New York Times with a post -it note on it that 00:04:27.610 --> 00:04:30.610 says, when are we getting in here? And I was 00:04:30.610 --> 00:04:37.850 like, oh. Yeah, no good deed goes on. Okay. So 00:04:37.850 --> 00:04:41.850 I really kind of that was the, you know, we've 00:04:41.850 --> 00:04:43.629 been thinking about things like what is this 00:04:43.629 --> 00:04:45.790 blogging thing? And how does social media affect 00:04:45.790 --> 00:04:47.490 what we do? You know, we've been thinking about 00:04:47.490 --> 00:04:49.410 it. And it was at that point that I said, we 00:04:49.410 --> 00:04:53.949 have to fill those valleys of no media coverage 00:04:53.949 --> 00:04:57.050 with other things that can actually help a business 00:04:57.050 --> 00:04:59.980 move forward. We added in social, we added in 00:04:59.980 --> 00:05:02.000 blogging, we added in inbound marketing, you 00:05:02.000 --> 00:05:04.620 know, all of the things that we added in so that 00:05:04.620 --> 00:05:08.160 by the time I wrote about it, it was really the 00:05:08.160 --> 00:05:11.699 idea that you could use, especially as a communicator, 00:05:11.759 --> 00:05:13.579 you could use paid, earned, shared and owned 00:05:13.579 --> 00:05:17.160 media to be able to have really consistent messaging 00:05:17.160 --> 00:05:19.980 across every platform so that no matter where 00:05:19.980 --> 00:05:23.259 your customer or your prospect saw you, it was 00:05:23.259 --> 00:05:26.180 the same. And that was the catalyst for it. Yeah. 00:05:26.259 --> 00:05:30.120 And so this is speaking to me. And I guess I 00:05:30.120 --> 00:05:34.759 have stolen from you the idea that whenever we're 00:05:34.759 --> 00:05:38.459 talking with prospects about having a PR campaign, 00:05:38.600 --> 00:05:41.569 a PR program, I'm always talking about how. the 00:05:41.569 --> 00:05:44.410 biggest challenge for the client agency relationship 00:05:44.410 --> 00:05:46.910 is to fill in those valleys in between the peaks. 00:05:47.149 --> 00:05:50.449 And I very often reference that specific language, 00:05:50.529 --> 00:05:52.629 but then talk about how you use things like the 00:05:52.629 --> 00:05:55.550 Peso model to be able to ensure that there's 00:05:55.550 --> 00:05:57.790 not these sort of like deafening silences in 00:05:57.790 --> 00:05:59.589 that you're hitting all the right places at the 00:05:59.589 --> 00:06:02.189 right time with the right messaging. But I digress. 00:06:02.250 --> 00:06:04.490 All right. So, Becca, do you have any questions 00:06:04.490 --> 00:06:06.029 before I go to the next piece, which is what 00:06:06.029 --> 00:06:08.689 happened now? Well, no, that was going to be 00:06:08.689 --> 00:06:11.209 what I was going to go to, too. So let's do it. 00:06:11.709 --> 00:06:15.470 So where are we now? You know, it's funny because 00:06:15.470 --> 00:06:19.129 it's been evolved and iterating throughout the 00:06:19.129 --> 00:06:21.189 years because a lot of things have changed, especially 00:06:21.189 --> 00:06:28.370 since 2014. In 2020, literally February 18th, 00:06:28.389 --> 00:06:30.790 2020, we launched the Peso Model Certification 00:06:30.790 --> 00:06:34.910 with Syracuse University. Oh, call me. Well, 00:06:34.930 --> 00:06:40.449 you know what happened after that. And so that 00:06:40.449 --> 00:06:43.449 was our like next big iteration was, you know, 00:06:43.449 --> 00:06:45.370 we have the certification and it's available 00:06:45.370 --> 00:06:48.470 to schools now. And one of the things that we 00:06:48.470 --> 00:06:50.829 found is that we were working really hard to 00:06:50.829 --> 00:06:54.579 working extraordinarily hard to help. people 00:06:54.579 --> 00:06:56.519 in the industry, and I hope this doesn't come 00:06:56.519 --> 00:06:58.439 across the wrong way, but to help people in the 00:06:58.439 --> 00:07:00.000 industry understand that this is where things 00:07:00.000 --> 00:07:02.540 were going. And we were met with a lot of resistance. 00:07:03.120 --> 00:07:05.699 And so we decided that maybe we would create 00:07:05.699 --> 00:07:08.199 the groundswell with students so that if they 00:07:08.199 --> 00:07:10.720 learned the Peso model and then they went into 00:07:10.720 --> 00:07:12.519 the workforce, they would understand that this 00:07:12.519 --> 00:07:15.939 is how communications has evolved and changed 00:07:15.939 --> 00:07:18.100 and they would help make that change, right? 00:07:18.259 --> 00:07:20.879 Can I stop you there? Yes. You talked about resistance. 00:07:21.000 --> 00:07:23.639 Yeah, what was the resistance? That was my question 00:07:23.639 --> 00:07:26.019 too. I'm just stealing all your questions, Becca. 00:07:26.120 --> 00:07:29.439 I know. No one wanted to do it. Everyone was 00:07:29.439 --> 00:07:32.620 like, PR is media relations. Like, we can't do 00:07:32.620 --> 00:07:37.060 this stuff. Or social media and content and paid 00:07:37.060 --> 00:07:40.040 is owned by marketing. And I was like, you guys. 00:07:40.459 --> 00:07:45.139 Yeah. It's, we should work together. Let's do 00:07:45.139 --> 00:07:47.600 this together. But it was, we were met with a 00:07:47.600 --> 00:07:50.279 ton of resistance. People just didn't want to 00:07:50.279 --> 00:07:53.129 change. And you know, I mean. Human beings don't 00:07:53.129 --> 00:07:55.410 make change unless there's a crisis. And so there 00:07:55.410 --> 00:07:58.470 wasn't anything until the pandemic that would 00:07:58.470 --> 00:08:02.050 force them to do that. Yeah, we were met with 00:08:02.050 --> 00:08:05.649 a lot of resistance. Interesting. So I cut you 00:08:05.649 --> 00:08:07.990 off in the middle of your stream of consciousness. 00:08:08.310 --> 00:08:12.529 Yeah. So we thought this idea of like the groundswell, 00:08:12.550 --> 00:08:15.029 of building the groundswell up. And so we launched 00:08:15.029 --> 00:08:17.949 it because of the pandemic and we couldn't, no 00:08:17.949 --> 00:08:19.889 one was going to buy an online course at that 00:08:19.889 --> 00:08:22.509 point. We went into schools and we offered it 00:08:22.509 --> 00:08:26.009 to schools as part of their learning. And I think 00:08:26.009 --> 00:08:28.810 now we're in, gosh, I don't even remember, maybe 00:08:28.810 --> 00:08:32.240 180. programs marketing advertising communications 00:08:32.240 --> 00:08:35.460 programs across the country a few around the 00:08:35.460 --> 00:08:37.379 world but mostly and we're talking specifically 00:08:37.379 --> 00:08:42.539 colleges yeah yeah yeah yeah mostly like upper 00:08:42.539 --> 00:08:45.960 level so junior senior a ton of graduate programs 00:08:45.960 --> 00:08:50.059 but some like usc syracuse University of Oregon, 00:08:50.200 --> 00:08:52.259 they have it for their juniors and seniors, and 00:08:52.259 --> 00:08:54.120 then almost everybody else does graduate. That's 00:08:54.120 --> 00:08:57.580 because USC and Syracuse have the best communication 00:08:57.580 --> 00:09:01.740 schools in the country. As a USC alum, I had 00:09:01.740 --> 00:09:04.240 to make that plug. You are right, though. It's 00:09:04.240 --> 00:09:07.720 true. It is the best. I did not see that coming, 00:09:07.820 --> 00:09:11.460 Becca. Undergrad and grad. So, yes, I'm going 00:09:11.460 --> 00:09:13.139 to pat myself on the back for that. You should. 00:09:13.259 --> 00:09:16.960 You should. Now you're LinkedIn famous and you 00:09:16.960 --> 00:09:19.480 can pat yourself on the back for that. So let's 00:09:19.480 --> 00:09:21.519 suppose I'm in a graduate program at one of the 00:09:21.519 --> 00:09:24.120 schools Becca didn't mention. One of the schools. 00:09:24.860 --> 00:09:28.720 One of the not so good schools. And I'm in the 00:09:28.720 --> 00:09:31.860 program. What am I ultimately taking away? If 00:09:31.860 --> 00:09:35.480 I follow assiduously the framework and get really, 00:09:35.539 --> 00:09:38.539 really smart, what do I enter the workforce with? 00:09:39.750 --> 00:09:43.190 It's a few things. One, you understand that marketing 00:09:43.190 --> 00:09:45.470 and communications, that line, you know, we used 00:09:45.470 --> 00:09:47.210 to say the line is really blurry and I think 00:09:47.210 --> 00:09:50.029 the line is just like dissolved. Now we are one. 00:09:50.149 --> 00:09:53.169 You have to work with your colleagues to be able 00:09:53.169 --> 00:09:55.789 to create consistent messaging across the platforms 00:09:55.789 --> 00:09:59.490 no matter what. And what we find is that when 00:09:59.490 --> 00:10:03.490 organizations have silos and they don't talk 00:10:03.490 --> 00:10:06.529 to one another. that they do things like a couple 00:10:06.529 --> 00:10:09.049 of years ago samsung launched a new phone during 00:10:09.049 --> 00:10:10.950 the super bowl and everybody was like oh this 00:10:10.950 --> 00:10:12.769 is awesome and they got their phones out and 00:10:12.769 --> 00:10:15.870 couldn't find the phone anywhere because the 00:10:15.870 --> 00:10:18.889 ad team the paid media team and the advertising 00:10:18.889 --> 00:10:24.110 agency didn't tell anybody that's so funny but 00:10:24.110 --> 00:10:27.509 it happens all the time all of the time it happens 00:10:27.509 --> 00:10:31.009 all the time so they go into the workforce understanding 00:10:31.009 --> 00:10:34.769 that we have to work together And PR is not just 00:10:34.769 --> 00:10:37.110 media relations. Marketing is not just social 00:10:37.110 --> 00:10:40.690 media. You know, it's reputation, it's brand 00:10:40.690 --> 00:10:42.909 building, all of the things that work together. 00:10:42.990 --> 00:10:46.070 Because as I said earlier, your prospect, your 00:10:46.070 --> 00:10:49.909 customer doesn't care if the marketing department 00:10:49.909 --> 00:10:52.009 or the communications department created the 00:10:52.009 --> 00:10:55.110 message. All they care is if I find something 00:10:55.110 --> 00:10:57.610 and I'm interested in it, can I find it where 00:10:57.610 --> 00:11:00.330 I get my information? Is it easy to buy? That's 00:11:00.330 --> 00:11:02.950 what they care about, right? thinking about it 00:11:02.950 --> 00:11:04.870 from that perspective they go into the workforce 00:11:04.870 --> 00:11:07.590 under having a really good understanding of that's 00:11:07.590 --> 00:11:10.169 what it's about and we should be working together 00:11:10.169 --> 00:11:13.250 as an integrated force to be able to help our 00:11:13.250 --> 00:11:17.129 our companies achieve the goals they need to 00:11:17.129 --> 00:11:20.529 yeah i think that's awesome so uh becca and i 00:11:20.529 --> 00:11:22.950 spent a lot of time talking with various guests 00:11:22.950 --> 00:11:26.730 about ai as you can imagine and that's fundamentally 00:11:26.730 --> 00:11:30.309 changing the game and how there's a little bit 00:11:30.309 --> 00:11:33.450 of a problem in corporate America in the sense 00:11:33.450 --> 00:11:35.409 that a lot of people are talking about how people 00:11:35.409 --> 00:11:38.009 coming out of college aren't necessarily landing 00:11:38.009 --> 00:11:39.889 at the places that they used to. And there's 00:11:39.889 --> 00:11:43.230 like a five year gap in hiring. Yeah. And we're 00:11:43.230 --> 00:11:45.549 hearing that all the time. And I'm positing without 00:11:45.549 --> 00:11:48.649 really any sort of empirical data on this, but 00:11:48.649 --> 00:11:50.889 that and Becca and I, I think, agree on this, 00:11:50.929 --> 00:11:53.950 that there isn't a sufficient level of basic 00:11:53.950 --> 00:11:56.750 education about AI tools, how to use it, how 00:11:56.750 --> 00:12:00.139 to incorporate it into your life in the. in the 00:12:00.139 --> 00:12:03.139 scholastic world so that these you know young 00:12:03.139 --> 00:12:05.139 professionals are coming out kind of handicapped 00:12:05.139 --> 00:12:08.799 um i guess my question is what do you think of 00:12:08.799 --> 00:12:11.580 what i just said and how would you expand on 00:12:11.580 --> 00:12:14.419 that i i totally agree with you i mean most of 00:12:14.419 --> 00:12:15.879 them are being told they can't use it at all 00:12:15.879 --> 00:12:18.620 right they can't you can't use it they're being 00:12:18.620 --> 00:12:22.200 told and so stupid it's so stupid because this 00:12:22.200 --> 00:12:24.399 is where the world's going i mean it's like telling 00:12:24.399 --> 00:12:26.299 people they can't use the internet in the night 00:12:27.259 --> 00:12:29.879 i mean they did do that too right i know yeah 00:12:29.879 --> 00:12:35.899 i know yes yeah i mean yes you're absolutely 00:12:35.899 --> 00:12:40.019 right becca like this is is there a where does 00:12:40.019 --> 00:12:42.860 ai fall in the peso model right like and then 00:12:42.860 --> 00:12:47.240 is there going to be an evolution again like 00:12:47.240 --> 00:12:49.820 i mean we're in the midst of an evolution right 00:12:49.820 --> 00:12:53.990 so what's the next iteration Yeah, we actually, 00:12:54.070 --> 00:12:56.950 we evolved it last year a little bit to include 00:12:56.950 --> 00:13:00.090 AI, but it was very, if I, at the time, I think 00:13:00.090 --> 00:13:01.950 it was probably revolutionary. But if I look 00:13:01.950 --> 00:13:04.750 at it now, I'm like, oh, not, not quite there. 00:13:05.429 --> 00:13:09.190 And we did it like you, it was really how to 00:13:09.190 --> 00:13:12.529 use AI to get the outputs from the PASOL model, 00:13:12.590 --> 00:13:14.710 from a four -year PASOL model plan is essentially 00:13:14.710 --> 00:13:17.809 how it was in 24. The new iteration that I'm 00:13:17.809 --> 00:13:19.669 actually working on right now at MIT, I just 00:13:19.669 --> 00:13:22.029 had a. a one -to -one with our chief communications 00:13:22.029 --> 00:13:25.370 officer. And he's like, so when can we launch 00:13:25.370 --> 00:13:29.850 it? I'm like, I'm working on it. But the new 00:13:29.850 --> 00:13:34.389 iteration is it's completely ingrained. And, 00:13:34.429 --> 00:13:37.009 you know, we're looking at things like visibility 00:13:37.009 --> 00:13:40.169 engineering. So as you know, one of the things 00:13:40.169 --> 00:13:43.210 that we are finding is LLMs are using owned and 00:13:43.210 --> 00:13:46.610 earned media, especially so content. um media 00:13:46.610 --> 00:13:49.110 but not just not traditional media but newsletters 00:13:49.110 --> 00:13:51.529 sub stack podcasts things like that to get their 00:13:51.529 --> 00:13:54.149 information so if you're not cited it's probably 00:13:54.149 --> 00:13:56.009 because you're not doing those two things so 00:13:56.009 --> 00:13:58.190 we've ingrained ai in that from a visibility 00:13:58.190 --> 00:14:00.870 engineering standpoint and we've also ingrained 00:14:00.870 --> 00:14:03.429 it from the perspective of one of the things 00:14:03.429 --> 00:14:06.789 that in the very beginning with in the 2020 version 00:14:06.789 --> 00:14:09.570 of the certification especially we talked about 00:14:09.570 --> 00:14:13.399 building your content map around priority keywords 00:14:13.399 --> 00:14:15.659 and SEO and making sure that you were optimized 00:14:15.659 --> 00:14:17.860 for Google. Well, that's completely changed. 00:14:18.080 --> 00:14:21.460 So now it's about how do you optimize both for 00:14:21.460 --> 00:14:23.899 Google, because old people are still going there, 00:14:23.980 --> 00:14:30.960 and for AI. Do you think SEO is dead or dying 00:14:30.960 --> 00:14:34.879 or will be dead? I always hate to say that something's... 00:14:35.019 --> 00:14:38.419 dead but i it's definitely changing what's funny 00:14:38.419 --> 00:14:40.399 about this is if you had asked me this question 00:14:40.399 --> 00:14:42.580 three weeks ago i would have said yes and the 00:14:42.580 --> 00:14:44.759 reason i'm not saying yes right now is because 00:14:44.759 --> 00:14:47.340 a friend of mine did a linkedin poll last week 00:14:47.340 --> 00:14:50.460 and he asked people if they're where they're 00:14:50.460 --> 00:14:52.620 getting their information if it's google if it's 00:14:52.620 --> 00:14:55.740 ai if it's a combination and then there was a 00:14:55.740 --> 00:14:58.399 fourth one the majority of people still said 00:14:58.399 --> 00:15:01.539 google and i was like really Yeah, but they're 00:15:01.539 --> 00:15:06.100 getting the AI. Right, sure. From Google. But 00:15:06.100 --> 00:15:09.259 they're going to Google and Googling it. Yeah. 00:15:09.320 --> 00:15:12.240 I wonder how SEO is impacting Google outcome 00:15:12.240 --> 00:15:16.679 or AI is impacting the Google SEO algo too, right? 00:15:16.720 --> 00:15:19.279 It must be because it is coming from Gemini now. 00:15:19.440 --> 00:15:21.960 Yeah, it's interesting. Yeah, the whole world 00:15:21.960 --> 00:15:25.940 is just really, really crazy. And it's so fast 00:15:25.940 --> 00:15:28.919 moving. Remember how press releases were dead? 00:15:29.019 --> 00:15:31.320 And I've been screaming from the rooftops for 00:15:31.320 --> 00:15:32.659 years. You know, you don't need to put out a 00:15:32.659 --> 00:15:34.879 press release when you do a new website or when 00:15:34.879 --> 00:15:38.700 you hire a new CCO. They're back, baby! No one 00:15:38.700 --> 00:15:42.120 actually gives a shit, but turns out the data 00:15:42.120 --> 00:15:46.539 shows that AI does care. And those stupid listicles. 00:15:46.620 --> 00:15:48.019 And then you have to sort of structure your press 00:15:48.019 --> 00:15:53.299 releases now. So here we are. And yesterday or 00:15:53.299 --> 00:15:55.080 two days ago, I think I did a post on LinkedIn 00:15:55.080 --> 00:15:58.340 from a muck rack stat, which said they did a 00:15:58.340 --> 00:16:03.120 survey that said 89 % of the answers delivered 00:16:03.120 --> 00:16:07.360 via LLMs are essentially earned media. That's 00:16:07.360 --> 00:16:11.240 a watershed moment in the PR industry in particular, 00:16:11.340 --> 00:16:13.679 but communications writ large. Guess who matters 00:16:13.679 --> 00:16:21.019 now, bitches? Sorry, I just had to say it. That's 00:16:21.019 --> 00:16:26.820 right. By the organization as not a revenue driver. 00:16:27.240 --> 00:16:29.220 And I'm like, who's going to get your answers 00:16:29.220 --> 00:16:32.379 in LLMs, dude? Yeah, well, Gregory Gallant called 00:16:32.379 --> 00:16:37.539 PR a performance channel. Instead of a feel it 00:16:37.539 --> 00:16:40.639 in your gut channel. Right. Instead of the vibes, 00:16:40.779 --> 00:16:45.000 the vibes crew. The vibes. Yeah. Yeah. So Ginny, 00:16:45.019 --> 00:16:48.159 are you encountering folks at your agency who 00:16:48.159 --> 00:16:50.779 are coming to you specifically about the AI question 00:16:50.779 --> 00:16:53.360 and about the LLMs and where it fits in? Or is 00:16:53.360 --> 00:16:56.279 that still kind of here and there? You know, 00:16:56.320 --> 00:16:59.139 what's funny is we're not. We're the ones that 00:16:59.139 --> 00:17:01.620 are bringing it to them. Yeah. And we're finding 00:17:01.620 --> 00:17:06.019 that they kind of are like, oh, that's interesting. 00:17:06.220 --> 00:17:08.619 And so they haven't really. thought about it 00:17:08.619 --> 00:17:12.039 i was at in march i was at a client event an 00:17:12.039 --> 00:17:14.839 internal client event and they had a speaker 00:17:14.839 --> 00:17:19.799 who i will not name because it's somebody tech 00:17:19.799 --> 00:17:22.880 bro you will know and he stood up there for an 00:17:22.880 --> 00:17:25.339 hour and told them that if they didn't learn 00:17:25.339 --> 00:17:29.339 ai they would not have jobs in a year i mean 00:17:29.339 --> 00:17:31.640 full -on told them that and so they left that 00:17:31.640 --> 00:17:35.539 event completely scared um and so we've had to 00:17:35.539 --> 00:17:38.410 like calm everybody down and be like, okay, it's 00:17:38.410 --> 00:17:40.329 not true. Unless you work at Salesforce and they 00:17:40.329 --> 00:17:42.710 just laid off 30 ,000 people for AI, like that's 00:17:42.710 --> 00:17:46.430 not true. But we find that we're the ones that 00:17:46.430 --> 00:17:49.450 are bringing it to them. And most of our clients 00:17:49.450 --> 00:17:52.210 are saying, okay, this is interesting. We work 00:17:52.210 --> 00:17:56.029 with mostly Fortune 500. And so they are creating 00:17:56.029 --> 00:17:59.609 AI steering committees. And I myself am sitting 00:17:59.609 --> 00:18:01.569 on some of the AI steering committees for our 00:18:01.569 --> 00:18:05.240 clients to help inform. help them understand 00:18:05.240 --> 00:18:07.619 how they how to use it from a marketing and communications 00:18:07.619 --> 00:18:11.420 perspective but most are not like they have co 00:18:11.420 --> 00:18:14.059 -pilot set up in their teams but you know what 00:18:14.059 --> 00:18:17.720 not this is gonna and i i'm sure i talked about 00:18:17.720 --> 00:18:20.099 this on another podcast so sorry to our listeners 00:18:20.099 --> 00:18:22.059 if you hear me rant about the same thing again 00:18:22.059 --> 00:18:25.220 but we aren't giving employees space to learn 00:18:25.220 --> 00:18:28.740 this we're not giving them time to dabble yes 00:18:28.740 --> 00:18:31.559 that's how you learn that's how all of us are 00:18:31.559 --> 00:18:34.140 learning right now anybody who's in expert right 00:18:34.140 --> 00:18:37.119 now is because they've spent the time to learn 00:18:37.119 --> 00:18:39.119 these new tools and they continue to because 00:18:39.119 --> 00:18:41.460 the tools change all the time. So if we want 00:18:41.460 --> 00:18:44.500 to expect organizations to become AI forward, 00:18:44.619 --> 00:18:47.319 we need to literally build into people's schedule 00:18:47.319 --> 00:18:51.099 time to go learn and use and fail and try and 00:18:51.099 --> 00:18:54.380 like waste time because I know I don't have time 00:18:54.380 --> 00:18:57.940 for this anymore and I need the time to go build 00:18:57.940 --> 00:19:00.200 my things. But instead I just default to the. 00:19:00.490 --> 00:19:04.329 to the non -ai workflows because that's already 00:19:04.329 --> 00:19:06.309 built and i can do it and i don't have to quote 00:19:06.309 --> 00:19:08.630 waste time but the wasted time is the learning 00:19:08.630 --> 00:19:11.150 time and i'm so frustrated by the fact that we 00:19:11.150 --> 00:19:12.930 want organizations to get there but we won't 00:19:12.930 --> 00:19:15.950 give them the time space resources to do it yeah 00:19:15.950 --> 00:19:20.609 interesting that you'll default to what's already 00:19:20.609 --> 00:19:23.490 exists because of time that's interesting i mean 00:19:23.490 --> 00:19:26.490 like here's a perfect example i have A lot of 00:19:26.490 --> 00:19:28.809 my stuff set up in Notion and there is Notion 00:19:28.809 --> 00:19:31.529 is a very powerful tool that I am only now kind 00:19:31.529 --> 00:19:34.609 of learning all of the ins and outs of. I need 00:19:34.609 --> 00:19:37.670 to go spend like hours and hours and hours to 00:19:37.670 --> 00:19:41.269 build the correct workflows in Notion. Instead, 00:19:41.390 --> 00:19:43.650 I just have pieces here and there that I then 00:19:43.650 --> 00:19:45.910 go back and use my old tools to kind of fill 00:19:45.910 --> 00:19:49.980 in the room and could just spend a week. focused 00:19:49.980 --> 00:19:52.900 on just this streamlining it the next six months 00:19:52.900 --> 00:19:55.059 would save so much time not doing the other things 00:19:55.059 --> 00:19:58.380 but i don't have that built -in time to go do 00:19:58.380 --> 00:20:00.599 that because you know there's fires burning everywhere 00:20:00.599 --> 00:20:03.059 else that i have to put out at all times so there 00:20:03.059 --> 00:20:09.200 are what what in comms shut up um so that's what 00:20:09.200 --> 00:20:11.119 frustrates me and as managers like we really 00:20:11.119 --> 00:20:13.480 should be yes encourage your employees to use 00:20:13.480 --> 00:20:16.150 ai and then not only give them the tools, but 00:20:16.150 --> 00:20:20.130 give them the time, right? Say block off Thursday 00:20:20.130 --> 00:20:22.769 afternoons to go dabble. And if nothing comes 00:20:22.769 --> 00:20:25.190 out of it too bad, and if something does great, 00:20:25.289 --> 00:20:27.069 share it with the team so we can all learn from 00:20:27.069 --> 00:20:30.109 it. You know, what's interesting about this Becca 00:20:30.109 --> 00:20:36.089 too, is I think like Perry and I definitely are 00:20:36.089 --> 00:20:38.250 old enough for this to remember this, but like 00:20:38.250 --> 00:20:43.019 my, my very. first boss. I'll never forget this 00:20:43.019 --> 00:20:45.039 as long as I live. She would come into the office 00:20:45.039 --> 00:20:47.700 every single day at eight o 'clock and she would 00:20:47.700 --> 00:20:50.180 put her fate on her desk and she would read the 00:20:50.180 --> 00:20:52.480 newspaper and the trade publications that our 00:20:52.480 --> 00:20:54.720 clients would be featured in every day. She spent 00:20:54.720 --> 00:20:56.960 an hour, her first hour every single day doing 00:20:56.960 --> 00:20:59.619 that. And I remember as a 22 year old young worker, 00:20:59.700 --> 00:21:02.059 I was thinking, well, I can't wait until I have 00:21:02.059 --> 00:21:05.500 time to spend an hour. You know what? She, she 00:21:05.500 --> 00:21:09.519 was so good at her job because of that. We didn't 00:21:09.519 --> 00:21:11.900 have to be in the office until nine. She came 00:21:11.900 --> 00:21:14.839 in every single day, an hour early, and that's 00:21:14.839 --> 00:21:17.380 what she spent her first hour on. So it's kind 00:21:17.380 --> 00:21:20.539 of the same thing. Like some people are going 00:21:20.539 --> 00:21:23.099 to learn it. Some people are not. But if you 00:21:23.099 --> 00:21:26.980 can carve out the first hour of your day or to 00:21:26.980 --> 00:21:29.319 your point, Becca, Thursday afternoons or something. 00:21:29.980 --> 00:21:32.599 and prove that there are applications for the 00:21:32.599 --> 00:21:34.519 business, you're going to be so much further 00:21:34.519 --> 00:21:36.460 ahead than you're worth. And it needs to not 00:21:36.460 --> 00:21:38.859 be like a one -time training or we're all going 00:21:38.859 --> 00:21:41.480 to go to the AI workshop. Today we will teach 00:21:41.480 --> 00:21:44.539 you AI. but that's what like it does feel like 00:21:44.539 --> 00:21:46.359 there's this we're gonna hire an ai consultant 00:21:46.359 --> 00:21:48.960 to come in and train us and then it's like okay 00:21:48.960 --> 00:21:52.099 you taught you gave people basic tools and understanding 00:21:52.099 --> 00:21:55.940 they still need to learn how to operationalize 00:21:55.940 --> 00:21:57.720 it for themselves and then in six months when 00:21:57.720 --> 00:22:00.220 everything's different how do they overcome that 00:22:00.220 --> 00:22:02.960 gap it's they have to keep perpetually learning 00:22:02.960 --> 00:22:05.700 and i just like that is a huge shift for a lot 00:22:05.700 --> 00:22:08.279 of people and i think that there is going to 00:22:08.279 --> 00:22:10.619 be i mean to your point earlier about tech bros 00:22:10.619 --> 00:22:12.619 saying if you don't learn ai you're gonna lose 00:22:12.619 --> 00:22:15.000 your job like i don't totally disagree with that 00:22:15.000 --> 00:22:18.400 because i think that they're easy like we had 00:22:18.400 --> 00:22:22.759 a recruiter on as one of our guests and She said 00:22:22.759 --> 00:22:25.460 it's not even that they ask about AI in interviews. 00:22:25.579 --> 00:22:28.180 It's expected. Like it is implied. It is implicit 00:22:28.180 --> 00:22:31.619 that you know how to bring AI into your role 00:22:31.619 --> 00:22:34.500 now because it's 2025 and this is where we're 00:22:34.500 --> 00:22:37.220 at. And I know I'm hiring and that's definitely 00:22:37.220 --> 00:22:38.900 one of the questions that I ask. And part of 00:22:38.900 --> 00:22:40.599 that is because I do want somebody who's going 00:22:40.599 --> 00:22:43.420 to bring in their ideas and how they use AI and 00:22:43.420 --> 00:22:45.839 help spread it to the team. Just like I'm going 00:22:45.839 --> 00:22:47.960 to take the stuff that I've learned and spread 00:22:47.960 --> 00:22:49.700 it to the teams. Like that's how we're all learning 00:22:49.700 --> 00:22:53.430 from each other and whatever. Yeah, like I kind 00:22:53.430 --> 00:22:55.769 of do think if you're not continually learning 00:22:55.769 --> 00:22:58.029 on this front, you're going to get left behind 00:22:58.029 --> 00:23:01.049 so fast that the that the learning curve to overcome 00:23:01.049 --> 00:23:05.109 it is going to be really hard. Yeah, I totally 00:23:05.109 --> 00:23:08.250 agree. Perry, you said something earlier about, 00:23:08.269 --> 00:23:10.710 you know, we've got this five year gap for kids 00:23:10.710 --> 00:23:13.009 coming out of college and into the workforce. 00:23:13.150 --> 00:23:16.490 And I think that's exactly right. And it's really 00:23:16.490 --> 00:23:19.660 about, you know, how if we're if. If colleges 00:23:19.660 --> 00:23:22.299 aren't allowing them to use it right now, which 00:23:22.299 --> 00:23:28.920 is ridiculous, how are we helping? Well, first 00:23:28.920 --> 00:23:33.039 of all, as parents, my kids are still in middle 00:23:33.039 --> 00:23:34.339 school. I think yours is a little bit older. 00:23:34.519 --> 00:23:37.000 But how do we as parents encourage the use? But 00:23:37.000 --> 00:23:40.240 then how are we as business leaders encouraging 00:23:40.240 --> 00:23:45.259 the application of that 22 to 27 -year -old so 00:23:45.259 --> 00:23:48.809 that they can come to work? and get different 00:23:48.809 --> 00:23:51.089 job experience than I think the three of us got 00:23:51.089 --> 00:23:56.049 when we started our careers in using AI and learning 00:23:56.049 --> 00:23:58.829 to prompt it and learning to edit it and thinking 00:23:58.829 --> 00:24:01.369 more strategically and creatively about it than 00:24:01.369 --> 00:24:04.109 to just write a news release. yeah i think it's 00:24:04.109 --> 00:24:05.829 an interesting question i think in some ways 00:24:05.829 --> 00:24:07.670 things are pretty cyclical you talked about how 00:24:07.670 --> 00:24:09.569 people weren't ready for what you brought to 00:24:09.569 --> 00:24:11.589 the table with the peso model and integrating 00:24:11.589 --> 00:24:14.450 all these various aspects because to your point 00:24:14.450 --> 00:24:16.730 pr is like media relations like that's what it 00:24:16.730 --> 00:24:18.509 is they weren't willing to expand their mind 00:24:18.509 --> 00:24:21.170 their horizons beyond that little piece um and 00:24:21.170 --> 00:24:23.609 i vividly remember i was vp marketing at shift 00:24:23.609 --> 00:24:26.069 communications uh in san francisco for a bunch 00:24:26.069 --> 00:24:28.930 of years back in the early 2000s and i remember 00:24:28.930 --> 00:24:30.910 when social media was kind of like popping up 00:24:30.910 --> 00:24:33.720 and Not only our company, but many companies 00:24:33.720 --> 00:24:35.859 that I knew were saying, like, get the hell off 00:24:35.859 --> 00:24:38.240 of these platforms like Twitter. Stop wasting 00:24:38.240 --> 00:24:41.160 your time on all these things and focus instead 00:24:41.160 --> 00:24:44.680 on Excel spreadsheets. That's still a narrative 00:24:44.680 --> 00:24:47.619 in a lot of organizations. Yes. And the more 00:24:47.619 --> 00:24:50.630 things change, the more they stay the same. And 00:24:50.630 --> 00:24:52.990 I feel like we're there again. And I feel like 00:24:52.990 --> 00:24:54.589 there's a difference this time, which is that 00:24:54.589 --> 00:24:56.670 many of the people who are my age and your age, 00:24:56.809 --> 00:25:00.869 Jenny, like in the early 30s, are just not interested 00:25:00.869 --> 00:25:04.809 or willing to do what it takes or to empower 00:25:04.809 --> 00:25:06.809 other people to do what it takes to learn the 00:25:06.809 --> 00:25:08.349 AI. They just want to pretend it doesn't goddamn 00:25:08.349 --> 00:25:11.369 exist. Maybe one or two smart people to come 00:25:11.369 --> 00:25:14.799 in and just do the AI. There is nobody in the 00:25:14.799 --> 00:25:17.140 middle. Everyone is either on the like, God F 00:25:17.140 --> 00:25:20.000 this AI. Like it's just overhyped, whatever, 00:25:20.220 --> 00:25:21.700 blah, blah, blah. I'm not going to deal with 00:25:21.700 --> 00:25:24.500 it. Or you are frantically learning because you 00:25:24.500 --> 00:25:25.940 feel like you're going to get left behind. Like 00:25:25.940 --> 00:25:27.920 there is nobody in the middle. You are on one 00:25:27.920 --> 00:25:29.480 side of the spectrum of the other. My husband 00:25:29.480 --> 00:25:32.759 is on the like, what's Chad GPT side because 00:25:32.759 --> 00:25:34.660 he just doesn't need it in his life. And his 00:25:34.660 --> 00:25:36.940 key works at a hospital. They are now like bringing 00:25:36.940 --> 00:25:39.299 in people to come and like teach them whatever, 00:25:39.400 --> 00:25:42.509 whatever. I'm sure. Yeah. My, in my world, I 00:25:42.509 --> 00:25:44.950 have nobody teaching me shit, but I am like anxious 00:25:44.950 --> 00:25:47.430 about getting left behind. So I'm trying to like 00:25:47.430 --> 00:25:49.890 keep up and learn and see who's what online and 00:25:49.890 --> 00:25:52.210 what my communities are using and asking my friends 00:25:52.210 --> 00:25:55.490 what they're using. Because I, I just, I fear 00:25:55.490 --> 00:25:58.549 being, you know, the one who doesn't have the 00:25:58.549 --> 00:26:00.349 tool that's going to save the day or whatever. 00:26:01.029 --> 00:26:05.009 On the other end of the spectrum from your husband, 00:26:05.109 --> 00:26:08.150 Becca. So Jenny, do you know Chris Penn, Christopher 00:26:08.150 --> 00:26:10.910 Penn? Oh yeah. Okay, right. Good friend, known 00:26:10.910 --> 00:26:12.349 him for years. He used to work at ship back in 00:26:12.349 --> 00:26:13.849 the day, blah, blah, blah, blah. He did a blog 00:26:13.849 --> 00:26:16.990 post today, I think, or yesterday. Not a blog 00:26:16.990 --> 00:26:19.930 post, a LinkedIn post about how people think 00:26:19.930 --> 00:26:22.730 that AI is limiting creativity. For him though, 00:26:22.910 --> 00:26:25.589 it's been, he's 10X'd his creativity because 00:26:25.589 --> 00:26:28.210 he has learned the tools so well that he does 00:26:28.210 --> 00:26:31.269 all the mundane. I feel the same way. And he 00:26:31.269 --> 00:26:33.609 has been wickedly more creative than he ever 00:26:33.609 --> 00:26:36.430 has been, including like designing, you know, 00:26:36.450 --> 00:26:38.750 five more pieces of software. I'll tell you why. 00:26:39.359 --> 00:26:41.500 i know why the difference is is somebody who 00:26:41.500 --> 00:26:43.819 uses ai as a tool and somebody who uses ai as 00:26:43.819 --> 00:26:46.519 a replacement for their work and that's the difference 00:26:46.519 --> 00:26:48.880 because ai does replace your creativity when 00:26:48.880 --> 00:26:52.779 you decide make a slide that explains this thing 00:26:52.779 --> 00:26:54.779 and then you just take that slide and use it 00:26:54.779 --> 00:26:56.380 because it looks nice and it says what it's supposed 00:26:56.380 --> 00:27:00.259 to instead if you use it as a tool for helping 00:27:00.259 --> 00:27:06.079 you um like bring to life whatever is in your 00:27:06.079 --> 00:27:09.319 brain, then it is a creativity enhancer. And 00:27:09.319 --> 00:27:10.720 I just think it's - Part of what he was saying 00:27:10.720 --> 00:27:13.279 is that you're either a creator or you're not. 00:27:13.420 --> 00:27:15.940 And a lot of people who are not are just deferring 00:27:15.940 --> 00:27:18.859 to the tools, but people who can't help but create, 00:27:19.000 --> 00:27:21.839 this has been a major boom for them. They've 00:27:21.839 --> 00:27:24.700 been so much more prolific in all the things 00:27:24.700 --> 00:27:27.539 they want to get to next. They can finally get 00:27:27.539 --> 00:27:29.539 to those things instead of wading through the 00:27:29.539 --> 00:27:32.750 bullshit. An analogy is like people, we go back 00:27:32.750 --> 00:27:34.690 to the early days of the internet. It's when 00:27:34.690 --> 00:27:36.789 the difference between somebody using the internet 00:27:36.789 --> 00:27:39.910 as a research tool to like learn more stuff and 00:27:39.910 --> 00:27:42.369 synthesize information and people who just copy 00:27:42.369 --> 00:27:44.730 and paste from Wikipedia and post, put it in 00:27:44.730 --> 00:27:47.809 their report, right? That's the difference. And 00:27:47.809 --> 00:27:50.690 I do think that there are just some people who 00:27:50.690 --> 00:27:53.009 want to use it as a easy button and some people 00:27:53.009 --> 00:27:55.930 who see it as a boon to what they already can 00:27:55.930 --> 00:27:59.309 do. In the very beginning when I was using it 00:27:59.309 --> 00:28:01.309 and kind of, I was like, oh, what is this? And 00:28:01.309 --> 00:28:04.529 I'm testing it out. The most valuable thing it 00:28:04.529 --> 00:28:08.349 has done for me is stopped my procrastination. 00:28:08.450 --> 00:28:11.910 Totally. Because now I'm like, okay, I've got 00:28:11.910 --> 00:28:13.809 a big project. I've got to start. And I just 00:28:13.809 --> 00:28:17.279 throw it into one of my AI tools. usually chat 00:28:17.279 --> 00:28:20.200 GPT first and say, I've got to start this big 00:28:20.200 --> 00:28:22.680 project. Can you help break it down into smaller 00:28:22.680 --> 00:28:25.680 chunks and like assign it out? And it does it. 00:28:25.740 --> 00:28:27.680 And then all of a sudden the project's done and 00:28:27.680 --> 00:28:30.079 I don't have to worry. It doesn't sit. Trust 00:28:30.079 --> 00:28:33.480 me. I literally move it from day to day to day. 00:28:33.859 --> 00:28:37.039 I'm with you. I will literally put in like, I 00:28:37.039 --> 00:28:40.240 can't start this project because I'm tired and 00:28:40.240 --> 00:28:42.380 I need an idea. yeah and it will give me something 00:28:42.380 --> 00:28:44.839 and even if it's not the right idea correct enough 00:28:44.839 --> 00:28:47.279 to like get going i totally agree like i always 00:28:47.279 --> 00:28:49.460 say it's like an adhd person's best friend because 00:28:49.460 --> 00:28:51.900 or you can't organize your thoughts but you have 00:28:51.900 --> 00:28:54.349 all of the thoughts like just dump them And then 00:28:54.349 --> 00:28:56.150 it will organize them for you. Oh my God. You 00:28:56.150 --> 00:28:58.690 know how much time that saves me? Dump my thoughts 00:28:58.690 --> 00:29:00.910 and have it organize them into like a way somebody 00:29:00.910 --> 00:29:03.910 else can read. Oh my God. Lifesaver. For me, 00:29:03.950 --> 00:29:06.529 probably one of the biggest uses that I find 00:29:06.529 --> 00:29:09.529 valuable is the connecting the dots between disparate 00:29:09.529 --> 00:29:12.250 ideas or related ideas for that matter. So one 00:29:12.250 --> 00:29:14.029 of the people that works for me, his name is 00:29:14.029 --> 00:29:15.869 James Gerber. He was my first hire at Crackle. 00:29:15.890 --> 00:29:18.109 I always say when I'm introducing him, it's kind 00:29:18.109 --> 00:29:21.180 of like the same. It's kind of the same spiel, 00:29:21.200 --> 00:29:23.599 but it's true, which is there's a lot of PR people 00:29:23.599 --> 00:29:27.039 and communications people that have knowledge 00:29:27.039 --> 00:29:28.599 about what they do. Like they're knowledgeable 00:29:28.599 --> 00:29:31.579 about PR, all that stuff. But precious few people 00:29:31.579 --> 00:29:34.180 have wisdom about the ability to connect the 00:29:34.180 --> 00:29:36.779 dots and spot the trends and all those types 00:29:36.779 --> 00:29:39.779 of things. And you either have that ability innately 00:29:39.779 --> 00:29:41.579 or you just kind of don't. You don't really teach 00:29:41.579 --> 00:29:45.259 somebody that. And I feel like AI for me has 00:29:45.259 --> 00:29:48.730 become. my quicker ability to do what I just 00:29:48.730 --> 00:29:51.470 said, which is I'll put in two unrelated ideas 00:29:51.470 --> 00:29:53.589 and say, what are the connections between these 00:29:53.589 --> 00:29:57.130 two things that I am not seeing? How can I illuminate 00:29:57.130 --> 00:29:59.109 this in a way that actually does make sense for 00:29:59.109 --> 00:30:01.029 this particular industry? Is there anything there? 00:30:01.150 --> 00:30:04.029 And it really has become a thought partner in 00:30:04.029 --> 00:30:06.710 that way. I'm not using the writing. I'm not 00:30:06.710 --> 00:30:10.170 using word for word. I'm just sparking ideas 00:30:10.170 --> 00:30:12.150 and thoughts that I can go off on a tangent with 00:30:12.150 --> 00:30:14.549 myself. To your point, Becca, about being ADHD, 00:30:14.910 --> 00:30:18.829 I am that too. I need sometimes the help of having 00:30:18.829 --> 00:30:22.170 something to ping off of and give me positive 00:30:22.170 --> 00:30:24.130 or negative feedback to that idea. And I feel 00:30:24.130 --> 00:30:26.349 like that's what's been brilliant for me as an 00:30:26.349 --> 00:30:28.130 agency owner and as somebody who's taking higher 00:30:28.130 --> 00:30:30.829 level strategy for clients and not like tactical 00:30:30.829 --> 00:30:35.289 in the weed stuff. Janine, have you seen any 00:30:35.289 --> 00:30:38.769 amazing use cases of AI for comms functions? 00:30:40.230 --> 00:30:44.029 One of the things that we launched probably eight 00:30:44.029 --> 00:30:47.809 months ago for a client is a compass. And what 00:30:47.809 --> 00:30:51.029 it does is it takes all of the social media listening, 00:30:51.309 --> 00:30:53.990 all of the media mentions and media listening, 00:30:54.210 --> 00:30:59.089 all the analytics every week and pulls it into 00:30:59.089 --> 00:31:02.619 a report. through Looker Studio. And then we 00:31:02.619 --> 00:31:06.059 put that into AI and we ask it for three things. 00:31:06.579 --> 00:31:09.720 What do we need to be worried about? What trend 00:31:09.720 --> 00:31:13.299 is happening and what's new? And it gives us 00:31:13.299 --> 00:31:17.400 a really nice look. And sometimes it says there's 00:31:17.400 --> 00:31:20.220 nothing in one of those categories. Or sometimes 00:31:20.220 --> 00:31:22.819 it says here are all the things. There was something 00:31:22.819 --> 00:31:26.039 about three months ago that came up that there 00:31:26.039 --> 00:31:28.420 was a dark corner of the web talking about something. 00:31:29.019 --> 00:31:32.579 And the AI said, this is happening and we think 00:31:32.579 --> 00:31:36.500 it's going to explode. And it did. And because 00:31:36.500 --> 00:31:39.259 of that, like it was, it was literally a dark 00:31:39.259 --> 00:31:40.859 corner of the web. It wasn't something that as 00:31:40.859 --> 00:31:42.480 human beings, we would have even paid attention 00:31:42.480 --> 00:31:45.700 to. And it started to trickle into the more, 00:31:45.819 --> 00:31:51.849 like it started trickling to Reddit. And we were 00:31:51.849 --> 00:31:54.190 prepared for that before it became a crisis because 00:31:54.190 --> 00:31:56.730 of the AI. So we call it the compass. It comes 00:31:56.730 --> 00:31:58.329 out every week. It goes all the way straight 00:31:58.329 --> 00:32:00.710 up to the top of the leadership and everybody 00:32:00.710 --> 00:32:03.910 sees it. And it's phenomenal. That's really cool. 00:32:04.309 --> 00:32:07.609 I want that. Do you sell that to other people 00:32:07.609 --> 00:32:09.289 or is that like a proprietary? You keep it in 00:32:09.289 --> 00:32:12.609 -house? I mean, I could sell it to other people. 00:32:13.609 --> 00:32:16.029 I would like to buy two compasses, please. I 00:32:16.029 --> 00:32:17.950 was going to say, everybody hit up Vinny. Vinny's 00:32:17.950 --> 00:32:19.569 going to need a lot of business after this airs. 00:32:20.359 --> 00:32:26.880 I would like three compasses. Amazing. That's 00:32:26.880 --> 00:32:28.619 very, very cool. What do you use to build that 00:32:28.619 --> 00:32:30.799 kind of stuff? Like how, how does one do that? 00:32:31.079 --> 00:32:34.319 So it does take, so you have, we have the social 00:32:34.319 --> 00:32:36.759 media monitoring tool. We have the media monitoring 00:32:36.759 --> 00:32:40.420 tool. We have all the analytics. It, it all drives 00:32:40.420 --> 00:32:43.480 into look, looker studio. And then the report 00:32:43.480 --> 00:32:47.279 comes out. We put that into the copilot instance 00:32:47.279 --> 00:32:51.160 that we have inside their firewall. um and you 00:32:51.160 --> 00:32:52.880 know we've we've been training it for eight months 00:32:52.880 --> 00:32:55.619 now so it's starting it's it can do all those 00:32:55.619 --> 00:32:57.420 things without much prompting but in the beginning 00:32:57.420 --> 00:32:59.039 we had to do a lot of prompting and training 00:32:59.039 --> 00:33:01.339 and making sure that it was getting the right 00:33:01.339 --> 00:33:04.539 things but it definitely we it's uh something 00:33:04.539 --> 00:33:07.220 in the dark dark corners and we as humans we 00:33:07.220 --> 00:33:08.880 never would have seen that we wouldn't have seen 00:33:08.880 --> 00:33:12.940 it until it hit reddit that's crazy yeah That 00:33:12.940 --> 00:33:16.059 is crazy. So what do you think is the next big 00:33:16.059 --> 00:33:18.539 thing coming down the pike with AI that's going 00:33:18.539 --> 00:33:20.900 to affect you and your clients' lives? Have you 00:33:20.900 --> 00:33:23.259 thought about, I know you're always iterating 00:33:23.259 --> 00:33:25.779 and tinkering and changing. Is there any like 00:33:25.779 --> 00:33:27.640 sort of looming threat on that? Maybe we should 00:33:27.640 --> 00:33:30.380 ask Compass this. What looming threat on the 00:33:30.380 --> 00:33:32.599 horizon or opportunity is on the horizon that 00:33:32.599 --> 00:33:34.740 you're already keyed into? And if the answer 00:33:34.740 --> 00:33:36.819 is you're just kind of living day to day with 00:33:36.819 --> 00:33:39.400 this stuff, that's where I'm at. So don't feel 00:33:39.400 --> 00:33:42.259 pressured to give a profound answer there. I 00:33:42.259 --> 00:33:47.920 was just reading in the Atlantic that they think 00:33:47.920 --> 00:33:51.720 an AI bubble is coming. And then I saw that Gartner, 00:33:51.779 --> 00:33:54.000 you know, in their hype cycle has put AI in the 00:33:54.000 --> 00:33:56.640 trough of disappointment. So I think we're going 00:33:56.640 --> 00:34:00.519 to see sort of that, you know, people will stop 00:34:00.519 --> 00:34:03.319 investing in AI for a little bit while, you know, 00:34:03.359 --> 00:34:07.039 the pet .com of the internet era goes away. And 00:34:07.039 --> 00:34:09.440 then it'll start to come back up again. So I 00:34:09.440 --> 00:34:12.829 think that that's... what's happening next at 00:34:12.829 --> 00:34:16.230 a macro level. So how that affects us is your 00:34:16.230 --> 00:34:18.969 tools may change. Some of your favorite tools 00:34:18.969 --> 00:34:22.550 may go away. I think, Becca, to your point earlier 00:34:22.550 --> 00:34:24.230 where you were talking about, I have to try all 00:34:24.230 --> 00:34:25.989 these things. I think it's going to become consolidated 00:34:25.989 --> 00:34:28.050 so you don't have to try all the things all the 00:34:28.050 --> 00:34:31.250 time. And we've seen that. We saw that with the 00:34:31.250 --> 00:34:32.769 internet. We saw it with social media. I think 00:34:32.769 --> 00:34:35.719 we'll see it here too. That, I think, in the 00:34:35.719 --> 00:34:37.900 next 12 to 18 months is going to be the big thing 00:34:37.900 --> 00:34:39.860 where things will some things will die. Some 00:34:39.860 --> 00:34:41.960 things will be consolidated and you'll come out 00:34:41.960 --> 00:34:44.219 with some. Yeah, we're already hearing about 00:34:44.219 --> 00:34:46.059 companies that are beginning to hire back some 00:34:46.059 --> 00:34:48.159 of the people they've shed because they're realizing, 00:34:48.380 --> 00:34:50.139 hey, you might need a couple of humans here to 00:34:50.139 --> 00:34:52.079 run this shit. Right. So that's interesting. 00:34:52.239 --> 00:34:53.559 The other thing that you said that was interesting 00:34:53.559 --> 00:34:56.860 was Gartner. Oh, my gosh. Gartner putting AI 00:34:56.860 --> 00:34:59.639 in the trough of disappointment is a little wacky. 00:34:59.659 --> 00:35:02.059 Right. Considering their market cap is tanking 00:35:02.059 --> 00:35:03.960 and they are like in the gutter with their stock. 00:35:04.039 --> 00:35:06.659 price gee i wonder who they could blame for that 00:35:06.659 --> 00:35:12.360 that is i do think that like data in this world 00:35:12.360 --> 00:35:15.639 is so interesting because on the one hand somebody 00:35:15.639 --> 00:35:18.440 still needs to produce the data right but on 00:35:18.440 --> 00:35:22.179 the other hand you don't need the people to synthesize 00:35:22.179 --> 00:35:26.329 it so or at least not in the way that a gardener 00:35:26.329 --> 00:35:28.590 was doing, but somebody still has to do the research, 00:35:28.809 --> 00:35:31.750 you know? So that's where it gets interesting 00:35:31.750 --> 00:35:34.789 because then the output is just the data, not 00:35:34.789 --> 00:35:38.489 the analysis of the data. Anyway, I just think 00:35:38.489 --> 00:35:40.710 this is such an interesting, all of these things 00:35:40.710 --> 00:35:42.869 are so interesting as like a turning point in 00:35:42.869 --> 00:35:45.989 the way that we do things. So tell us about your 00:35:45.989 --> 00:35:48.829 agency a little bit. I don't know a lot about 00:35:48.829 --> 00:35:50.750 it because I'm so focused on your spin suck stuff 00:35:50.750 --> 00:35:53.369 and the peso model and all that. What is your 00:35:53.369 --> 00:35:58.369 agency? Who do you serve? How big is it? We're 00:35:58.369 --> 00:36:02.170 a mid -sized agency. We actually, you know, for 00:36:02.170 --> 00:36:03.630 the longest time, like I said in the beginning, 00:36:03.750 --> 00:36:05.730 we were very traditional PR. And then we added 00:36:05.730 --> 00:36:09.610 in paid and shared and owned, of course. In the 00:36:09.610 --> 00:36:13.110 last probably, well, since the pandemic, we've 00:36:13.110 --> 00:36:16.349 become really Peso model focused. And so we don't 00:36:16.349 --> 00:36:19.860 actually do agency work anymore. We go in and 00:36:19.860 --> 00:36:22.260 we either do training, implementation, or licensing 00:36:22.260 --> 00:36:24.960 of the Peso model with Fortune 500 organizations. 00:36:25.239 --> 00:36:29.159 So we do a ton of training, teaching marketers 00:36:29.159 --> 00:36:31.579 and communicators what it is, how to use it, 00:36:31.659 --> 00:36:34.440 how to implement it, and what we find with big, 00:36:34.440 --> 00:36:37.340 big companies. as I'm sure you both have experienced, 00:36:37.519 --> 00:36:40.119 that they have a thousand agencies and nobody 00:36:40.119 --> 00:36:43.219 talks to one another. And it's really hard to 00:36:43.219 --> 00:36:45.480 implement something like this with all of those 00:36:45.480 --> 00:36:49.019 silos. And so we go and embed ourselves into 00:36:49.019 --> 00:36:52.239 those organizations as Peso integrators and bring 00:36:52.239 --> 00:36:55.380 all of them together. And it's been interesting. 00:36:55.460 --> 00:36:56.900 And in the beginning, I was like, I don't know 00:36:56.900 --> 00:36:58.659 if this will work because having come from a 00:36:58.659 --> 00:37:00.440 big agency, I worked for Fleischmann and Hillard 00:37:00.440 --> 00:37:04.150 for many years. I know how protective they are, 00:37:04.190 --> 00:37:07.510 right? Of their ideas and their content and their 00:37:07.510 --> 00:37:10.449 profit margins and all of that. But when you 00:37:10.449 --> 00:37:13.449 have the client saying, it's important that you 00:37:13.449 --> 00:37:16.030 all work together and here's an outside resource 00:37:16.030 --> 00:37:18.289 that's going to help you do that. It's been extremely 00:37:18.289 --> 00:37:21.550 effective. So ongoing consultation as well. So 00:37:21.550 --> 00:37:23.550 like once you get in with the training, you're 00:37:23.550 --> 00:37:26.989 ongoing with the, it's like annual, monthly, 00:37:27.250 --> 00:37:30.940 how do you work? it's multi -year i mean we have 00:37:30.940 --> 00:37:32.860 one client that just signed a contract through 00:37:32.860 --> 00:37:37.539 29 which is amazing um but what we're doing with 00:37:37.539 --> 00:37:41.699 them is a center of excellence so we had leaders 00:37:41.699 --> 00:37:44.019 nominate people from their team who can spend 00:37:44.019 --> 00:37:48.909 50 of their time on peso model learning I would 00:37:48.909 --> 00:37:50.869 love to work in an organization that would give 00:37:50.869 --> 00:37:53.789 me 50 % of my time to learn anything. To learn 00:37:53.789 --> 00:37:56.710 anything. Yeah. They're very, very, very progressive. 00:37:57.090 --> 00:37:59.929 So those people will spend all of their year 00:37:59.929 --> 00:38:02.949 with us. They'll go through the same training 00:38:02.949 --> 00:38:05.010 that my team goes through. They'll sit in all 00:38:05.010 --> 00:38:07.190 of the internal training that I do with my team. 00:38:07.269 --> 00:38:10.619 So we do three. monthly big trainings for the 00:38:10.619 --> 00:38:12.699 entire organization so they'll be part of that 00:38:12.699 --> 00:38:15.739 and by the end of next year the idea is that 00:38:15.739 --> 00:38:18.099 they'll be the subject matter experts internally 00:38:18.099 --> 00:38:20.619 as the center of excellence and then they can 00:38:20.619 --> 00:38:23.739 go and fulfill that role the peso integrator 00:38:23.739 --> 00:38:26.599 role internally it reminds me of the i think 00:38:26.599 --> 00:38:28.440 i mentioned this in a previous podcast too but 00:38:28.440 --> 00:38:30.099 it's like what if we spend all that money on 00:38:30.099 --> 00:38:32.780 training and our and those people leave but what 00:38:32.780 --> 00:38:34.900 if we don't spend any money on training and they 00:38:34.900 --> 00:38:43.599 stay that's and you know what the new version 00:38:43.599 --> 00:38:46.579 of that is perry linkedin or online social presence 00:38:46.579 --> 00:38:48.980 right well we don't want you online doing whatever 00:38:48.980 --> 00:38:51.820 because like then people are gonna like poach 00:38:51.820 --> 00:38:55.969 you also that's a very positive reflection of 00:38:55.969 --> 00:38:58.150 your brand also that is the way that people find 00:38:58.150 --> 00:39:00.010 out about your company or that you have a good 00:39:00.010 --> 00:39:02.809 culture or whatever whatever so like sit down 00:39:02.809 --> 00:39:06.429 anyway yeah 100 i i say this and i mean this 00:39:06.429 --> 00:39:09.010 to my to my staff i want them to be as active 00:39:09.010 --> 00:39:11.650 on on linkedin as possible sharing smart insights 00:39:11.650 --> 00:39:14.170 about the industry because i'm under no illusions 00:39:14.170 --> 00:39:15.789 that they will work with me until the end of 00:39:15.789 --> 00:39:17.630 time eventually they'll go somewhere else and 00:39:17.630 --> 00:39:19.980 when they do It's with my blessing between now 00:39:19.980 --> 00:39:22.900 and then you are building a halo effect on your 00:39:22.900 --> 00:39:25.699 brand and my brand. And I'm here for it. If you 00:39:25.699 --> 00:39:28.019 don't see that, you're not current. You do not 00:39:28.019 --> 00:39:32.079 get it. Totally. Totally. All right. I think 00:39:32.079 --> 00:39:35.900 it is time for us to segue into my personal favorite 00:39:35.900 --> 00:39:39.679 part of every show, which is our rapid fire questions, 00:39:39.780 --> 00:39:44.840 which this year or this season, we are bringing 00:39:44.840 --> 00:39:48.260 a one unhinged question per episode. perry is 00:39:48.260 --> 00:39:50.159 in charge of the unhinged questions i will ask 00:39:50.159 --> 00:39:52.880 you sometimes too we'll see how it goes i will 00:39:52.880 --> 00:39:56.639 ask you the entertaining questions so you get 00:39:56.639 --> 00:39:58.900 to erase one corporate buzzword from existence 00:39:58.900 --> 00:40:04.639 what is it impact oh wow why the long hesitation 00:40:04.639 --> 00:40:11.099 why it say more because you can't have an impact 00:40:11.099 --> 00:40:14.420 on something you can have impacted teeth A plane 00:40:14.420 --> 00:40:17.239 can crash on impact, but you cannot have an impact 00:40:17.239 --> 00:40:20.079 on something. You can affect something, but you 00:40:20.079 --> 00:40:27.320 cannot impact it. Dang. I remember impacted. 00:40:27.579 --> 00:40:31.619 This impacted that. It just happened so often. 00:40:31.659 --> 00:40:32.900 I'm like, you know what? I'm just going to roll 00:40:32.900 --> 00:40:35.239 with it now. Yeah, at this point I did too, but 00:40:35.239 --> 00:40:38.360 I hate it. I feel like I need to rethink my word 00:40:38.360 --> 00:40:43.079 usage now. I'm shamed. Oh my God. Okay. Next. 00:40:43.099 --> 00:40:44.739 See, we learned something new in every episode. 00:40:45.440 --> 00:40:47.599 You're about to give a presentation in front 00:40:47.599 --> 00:40:50.400 of 50 ,000 people, a keynote style. What's the 00:40:50.400 --> 00:40:56.559 song you walk out onto the stage to? I'm going 00:40:56.559 --> 00:40:58.460 to say what the first song that popped into my 00:40:58.460 --> 00:41:01.639 brain. And this will tell you how my life is 00:41:01.639 --> 00:41:04.539 right now. Golden by the K -pop Demon Hunters. 00:41:06.920 --> 00:41:08.800 I don't know the song, but I know the K -pop 00:41:08.800 --> 00:41:10.639 Demon Hunters very well. I'm sure I know the 00:41:10.639 --> 00:41:13.179 song if I heard it, but my kids are equally as 00:41:13.179 --> 00:41:18.599 obsessed. I'm sure that's child -related. Deep 00:41:18.599 --> 00:41:21.440 breaths. It's the most watched movie ever on 00:41:21.440 --> 00:41:27.139 Netflix. Ever. Ever. Ever. They think the reason 00:41:27.139 --> 00:41:29.219 is because this is the first time they opened 00:41:29.219 --> 00:41:31.320 up the licensing so that you could make your 00:41:31.320 --> 00:41:34.500 own memes and things, and the kids just went 00:41:34.500 --> 00:41:39.420 wild. They went wild. Amazing. Amazing. Our producer 00:41:39.420 --> 00:41:41.380 Brian says almost every song from the soundtrack 00:41:41.380 --> 00:41:43.739 was in the top 20. That's crazy. Isn't that nuts? 00:41:43.960 --> 00:41:46.659 It's nuts. Amazing. Well, there you go. I guess 00:41:46.659 --> 00:41:48.219 everyone will be cheering when you walk out to 00:41:48.219 --> 00:41:52.659 that song. Okay. If you had to do a TED Talk 00:41:52.659 --> 00:41:56.719 on anything but Peso, communications, whatever, 00:41:56.940 --> 00:41:59.980 what would your topic be? The foster care system. 00:42:00.420 --> 00:42:06.389 Oh. Say more. We actually were foster parents. 00:42:06.469 --> 00:42:08.769 We adopted our 12 -year -old through the foster 00:42:08.769 --> 00:42:14.809 care system when she was a baby. And it is the 00:42:14.809 --> 00:42:22.190 most broken system. Well, let me rephrase that. 00:42:22.690 --> 00:42:26.170 Before January, it was the most broken system 00:42:26.170 --> 00:42:29.570 I think our country has. That's not the case 00:42:29.570 --> 00:42:33.409 anymore. But it's very, very broken. You know, 00:42:33.429 --> 00:42:35.929 when you are a foster parent, your job is to 00:42:35.929 --> 00:42:39.769 protect the kids. The law and the foster care 00:42:39.769 --> 00:42:41.590 system is set up to protect the parents, the 00:42:41.590 --> 00:42:45.050 biological parents, and it's hard to have those 00:42:45.050 --> 00:42:48.070 come together. So, you know, parents, biological 00:42:48.070 --> 00:42:52.269 parents can screw up massively many, many times 00:42:52.269 --> 00:42:54.730 over and still get their kids back whether or 00:42:54.730 --> 00:42:57.409 not they deserve it. And it's tough. It's really 00:42:57.409 --> 00:42:59.969 tough. Interesting. All right. Well, there you 00:42:59.969 --> 00:43:04.219 go. Yeah. Ted talk on foster system. Good on 00:43:04.219 --> 00:43:07.900 you for doing what you did. Yeah, I had to stop 00:43:07.900 --> 00:43:10.519 though. It's too much for my heart. Too much. 00:43:10.900 --> 00:43:16.500 Yeah. All right. You get to use one emoji for 00:43:16.500 --> 00:43:19.179 the rest of your life, but only one. Which one? 00:43:20.139 --> 00:43:24.260 The poop emoji. I think you're the first one 00:43:24.260 --> 00:43:27.800 to say that on this show. Ryan, can you please 00:43:27.800 --> 00:43:32.059 edit out that word? Thank you. I said cube on 00:43:32.059 --> 00:43:35.239 purpose. We need to have it like drop down like 00:43:35.239 --> 00:43:42.920 a graphic. This is a family podcast. Funny. I 00:43:42.920 --> 00:43:46.039 love it. All right, Perry, it's your turn. All 00:43:46.039 --> 00:43:49.739 right. I'm going to test a new one out and then 00:43:49.739 --> 00:43:51.460 we'll see how that goes. I may do another one, 00:43:51.539 --> 00:43:53.719 but I may just stop here. So these are always 00:43:53.719 --> 00:43:55.619 like a test of like, what do you prioritize? 00:43:57.340 --> 00:44:02.340 So Jenny, you can. Accept a check for $20 million 00:44:02.340 --> 00:44:06.559 today, tax free. You can do whatever you want 00:44:06.559 --> 00:44:10.039 with it until the end of time. But like most 00:44:10.039 --> 00:44:12.920 difficult choices, this one means that every 00:44:12.920 --> 00:44:15.699 single time from now on, whether you're in a 00:44:15.699 --> 00:44:17.840 restaurant, whether you're at a child's recital, 00:44:17.920 --> 00:44:20.199 whether you're in a business meeting, every time 00:44:20.199 --> 00:44:24.820 you laugh. you will laugh exactly like a donkey. 00:44:24.980 --> 00:44:29.260 As loud as a donkey, the hee -haw is going to 00:44:29.260 --> 00:44:36.059 be insane. So $20 million. But every time you 00:44:36.059 --> 00:44:39.420 laugh from now on, you will laugh exactly like 00:44:39.420 --> 00:44:45.940 a very loud jackass. I'm taking the $20 million. 00:44:46.420 --> 00:44:53.829 Absolutely. You too. I'm fine with it. One thing 00:44:53.829 --> 00:44:56.710 is true. You'll be the toast of every party. 00:44:56.809 --> 00:44:58.710 People are like, you've got to invite Ginny because 00:44:58.710 --> 00:45:00.829 she is going to make us all laugh our asses off. 00:45:01.590 --> 00:45:05.510 Absolutely. 100%. What would you do, Becca? What 00:45:05.510 --> 00:45:07.789 would you take the money? I would. I would take 00:45:07.789 --> 00:45:10.489 the money and I would laugh my ass off like a 00:45:10.489 --> 00:45:16.079 crazy drunken donkey. I'm here for it. It'll 00:45:16.079 --> 00:45:18.500 match my big teeth that everybody's always like, 00:45:18.500 --> 00:45:21.059 put those things away. And now I can just be 00:45:21.059 --> 00:45:25.559 like. As I'm looking at myself laughing here, 00:45:25.619 --> 00:45:27.840 I'm like, I already kind of laugh like a donkey 00:45:27.840 --> 00:45:30.539 anyway. It's not that big of a stretch. I know. 00:45:30.659 --> 00:45:32.780 I mean, you'll be rich. So who cares? All right. 00:45:32.820 --> 00:45:35.340 I can tell you, I had a business coach early 00:45:35.340 --> 00:45:38.639 on in the business that has the most infectious 00:45:38.639 --> 00:45:41.639 laugh. It's loud. It's boisterous. You knew if 00:45:41.639 --> 00:45:43.960 Brad was in the room and people loved it. So 00:45:43.960 --> 00:45:46.329 fine. I'll take the 20 million bucks. You can 00:45:46.329 --> 00:45:47.469 make fun of me. I get to hear you from down the 00:45:47.469 --> 00:45:51.170 hallway. That's right. No Jenny's coming. Just 00:45:51.170 --> 00:45:55.309 don't invite her to church. Or a funeral, yeah. 00:45:56.030 --> 00:45:58.110 Definitely not a funeral. Please not a funeral. 00:45:58.869 --> 00:46:01.889 If you cry, does it make the donkey sound too? 00:46:02.010 --> 00:46:04.250 Or just laugh? Just laugh. Because I feel like 00:46:04.250 --> 00:46:08.329 that would be embarrassing. Every time you laugh 00:46:08.329 --> 00:46:16.659 or cry, you sound like a donkey. That was a really 00:46:16.659 --> 00:46:19.000 good question. They were all really good questions. 00:46:19.219 --> 00:46:24.460 Well, I guess, Ginny, as PR people, we have to 00:46:24.460 --> 00:46:26.559 give you the floor for, is there anything you 00:46:26.559 --> 00:46:28.619 would like to share with our listeners or direct 00:46:28.619 --> 00:46:32.199 them to how to find you, how to get you to build 00:46:32.199 --> 00:46:37.119 them their compass? Yeah, I better create a form 00:46:37.119 --> 00:46:42.190 so you can order a compass. I'm kind of sad we 00:46:42.190 --> 00:46:43.949 don't do this every week. I'm not going to lie. 00:46:44.090 --> 00:46:47.710 This is awesome. And people can find us at spinsucks 00:46:47.710 --> 00:46:51.130 .com. Awesome. This has been fantastic. I'm so 00:46:51.130 --> 00:46:53.409 glad we finally got to meet. Me too. This is 00:46:53.409 --> 00:46:56.389 fantastic. Which is nice. And don't be a stranger. 00:46:56.510 --> 00:46:59.889 I know I will be reading your stuff as passionately 00:46:59.889 --> 00:47:02.030 as I always do. So keep up the good work. This 00:47:02.030 --> 00:47:05.230 is the way. Thanks, Jenny. Thanks. Thanks for 00:47:05.230 --> 00:47:06.530 having me. Bye -bye.