The problem is, and if you can slack somebody
on a Friday night or Saturday night and say,
don't look at this until Monday, well, guess
what? They're already looking at it and they're
thinking about it all goddamn weekend until Monday.
So, right? It's like saying like, hey, do you
have 15 minutes? People are like, oh my God,
what is this call going to be about? Until that
15 minutes happens, people are like deer in headlights.
Welcome to Under Embargo, the podcast that says
the quiet part out loud about PR, communications,
and the chaos in between. Hosted by two of LinkedIn's
most connected comms pros, Becca Chambers, a
no BS corporate comms exec with raging ADHD,
and Pari Hedrick, founder of tech PR firm Crackle
PR. This show brings it all. Real talk, sharp
insights, and the kind of industry truths they
don't put in press releases. No fluff, no filters,
no f***s given. This is Under Embargo. Let's
get into it. Hey, everybody, and welcome back
to the Under Embargo podcast. I am one half of
your hosting team, Perry Hedrick, Crackle founder.
Obviously, you guys know Becca Chambers. She
is the other half that will be speaking momentarily.
But today, we are super excited to announce a
guest who's pretty heavy hitting in the world
of comms. Her lineup of career slaps looks like
a murderer's row of comms expertise. Her name
is Gab Farid. And she has got some news that
she's going to talk about today. But she also,
before we get to that point, has just finished
quite a stint at Bumble. There was VP of Global
Communications, which is no job for the faint
-hearted. Prior to that, she was at Slack. She
was Senior Director of Corporate, Internal, and
Executive Comms, another huge, huge role. And
then the list goes on and on. She was at Salesforce
in a comms capacity too. So we're really excited
to have you here today. There's a lot we can
talk about. Thanks so much, Perry and Becca.
I'm really happy to be on after listening over
the last couple of weeks since you've all launched.
So thanks for doing this. This is so exciting
that the comms industry just has, I feel like
so much like investment and oxygen and cool initiatives
that are happening that like our marketing friends,
no offense, Becca, I know you're a comms girly
at heart, but our marketing friends have had
forever. And now we're getting it in comms too.
So thank you for doing this. I'm so excited to
be here. Of course. And you said that so well.
It reminds me of one of the things that I say
on LinkedIn all the time. I was kind of one of
the early folks on LinkedIn. And I would always
say, you know, we're so great at elevating everyone
else, but we really suck at doing it for ourselves.
And it's so nice to see that there's a little
bit of a movement afoot here where people are
realizing that if we don't do it for ourselves,
who the hell is going to? So here we are. And
it's our responsibility, right? Like as people
who have a... platform and are the executives
in this industry gab you too like it is our responsibility
to share the wins of our team and what we're
doing because otherwise nobody's going to know
about it absolutely we're we're no longer being
the cobbler's children that's right correct so
it's kind of a nice segue um you know i kind
of want to get right to the the news piece of
what we're talking about here today because you
have some pretty interesting news and i haven't
seen a lot of people do a foray into the area
you're doing it in so um do you want to talk
about the new community that you're building
for comms professionals and and kind of give
us the genesis of what happened with that how
we got here and and where you're at yeah absolutely
perry and thanks so much for allowing me the
chance to talk about it because it is something
i'm truly excited about i have been working in
comms for the last 15 years in a variety of roles
from startups to big companies like salesforce
and bumble that you've mentioned and i'm recently
in a position where i just had a moment to just
like take a sit and be like, what do I like the
most about what I do? And what are the parts
that I am like uniquely really good at? Like,
I think media relations is great. I like media
relations, like writing. Cool. I like doing that.
But what I love to do is like manage my teams
and help them be better at comms and help them
be like, hey. guess what? You can have balance.
Like you can go to your Wednesday night bowling
league every single week. You do not need to
log on at 8 PM every single night. And I'm still
going to get you a path to promote it. Like here
are ways that you can be more productive without
just grinding out those hours and seeing all
these individuals that I've worked with over
the last 15 years grow in their career. grow
in their titles, grow in their autonomy, grow
in the trust that they've earned with their executives.
Like that has been my sweet spot and the part
that I've loved the most. And I was like, how
can I do that at scale? Because it's great to
have impact on the couple of people that I have
on my team. But there are so, so, so many people
that either have a manager who is too busy or
too senior. or maybe even too checked out to
grow them. And I know that because I have been
that manager where I'm like, oh, I wish I could
spend more time with you. But like, I have so
many things going on. I just can't do it. So
I've launched Off the Record. It's a community
for comms professionals to provide coaching.
So we're going to do monthly workshops, masterclasses,
so you can learn the latest of what's going on
in our industry. We're going to do one -to -many
coaching, which I'm calling office hours. So
you can bring a problem, a pitch, a plan. whatever
it is you're working on maybe you're debating
changing jobs maybe you're having a hard time
getting things approved internally whatever it
is and we can talk about it live um we're gonna
have a template library so people you know don't
have to start from scratch with building a pitch
or you know responding to a crisis or whatever
it is they're working on building in all hands
for internal comms folks, and a lot of other
elements of it. So I'm really excited for Off
the Record. We're going to open it in cohorts.
So the first cohort's opening in the middle of
June. I think by the time this comes out, it
could possibly be open or closed. If you're hearing
it and you want to join, email me at gab at joinofftherecord
.com. I will let you in. But yeah, we're really
excited about it. And the response has been amazing.
a lot of people who you know i was thinking about
is like the ideal comms person who i was building
this for have reached out to me and been like
i need this i'm lonely i'm working from home
i don't have the swivel chair moments i'm unable
to sit in my svp's office and learn from them
like i'm not overhearing phone calls of people
anymore like i used to or i never got that because
i'm 25 and i joined the workforce in the middle
of covet and i've never had co -workers so i'm
really excited to bring this cohort of you know
rising energetic you know, leaders or, you know,
soon to be leaders in communications across their
career spectrum, across agency, in -house consulting,
whatever it is. And really to be that, like,
I think my LinkedIn is like your comms BFF. So
like, just to really be that, that friend in
the office that everyone needs and no one really
has anymore. And, you know, just be that for
them. I got to say the, first of all, love the
messaging. I would expect nothing less from somebody
of your comms caliber, but really like I'm listening
to it and I'm like, accurate, accurate, dead
on, right? You nailed all of the pain points.
It's perfect. So just from somebody who is your
demographic, love it. The point about post COVID.
not having the swivel chair moments is the thing
and I talk about it and I don't I love the um
phrase swivel chair moments by the way I don't
think I've ever heard somebody say that before
um I used to just talk like you don't hear the
hallway chatter. You don't like by osmosis, you
don't get the info. And as a communications person,
like that is so, so important, right? To just
be kind of hearing and being around the other
people and getting to know people and getting
to like, I don't know, just all the little nuggets.
So I think what you are offering is something
that I'm not even sure some people realize that
they don't have, you know, like they might realize
that they need a coach or that they need more
help, but they. I think people don't even realize
how much they're missing from those little moments.
So I love this offering and yay. Thank you, Becca.
That means so much. And like, to your point,
like that's why like the office hours or the
coaching, I want to open it up to everyone. So
even if you don't have a question to bring in
that month or week or whatever we do, like you
got to listen to other people because you're
going to learn so much from that. And to your
point, like I was super lucky. My very first
agency job, I had. And this is something I want
to talk about with the cohort of people who join
off the record or whomever will listen to me
is like, when you are choosing a job. or when
you are interviewing, you are not just hoping
they pick you. You have to pick your manager
because your manager is the number one barrier
to your success or not success at a company and
in your career. And I was so lucky with my first
manager, Amy Saloom. Hello. I love you so much.
And her manager, Conroy Boxhill, they spent so
much time with me and growing me in those early
days at my first agency job. They spent. hours
with me just chatting how did we get that client
how did we work through that crisis how did you
handle when we really disappointed the ceo in
this media plan execution and the amount that
i got to learn by osmosis and directly from their
time investment which is never guaranteed was
the starting point of like a rocket ship of a
career and i am so grateful to them for that
i never could have known that that was important
but since i got that the first time i always
make sure I was also interviewing for the manager,
not just for the job. I heard an expression one
time, which was find yourself a manager who will
speak your name in a room full of opportunities.
And that was an epiphany for me early on before
I even started my company. It literally just
gave me chills. And like, you know, my previous
boss at Bumble, Lidiani Jones, is the epitome
of that person. And not just for you as a worker,
but she also was just such an exemplary figure
of a working mother, which Becca, I know that
you will appreciate as well. Like she had these
non -negotiables as a working mom that trickled
down and in a company like Bumble, where you
have so many women working there was so important,
you know, non -negotiables. She never missed
a birthday. So no work travel on her children's
birthdays. She never missed the first or last
day of school. And she always had dinner with
her family, which made it a little hard to schedule
APAC calls. I digress, but we had to work around
that because those were her non -negotiables
in order for her to be the successful executive
and be a mom there for her children. And you
know what? Now I have non -negotiables and now
my team has non -negotiables. And even though
they're not senior as she is, because she like
stood that ground and made that like a norm within
the company. Now people feel like I can set my
Slack message to time with family. Call it urgent.
No one ever calls. They don't call. They just
know not to expect a response from you right
away. And it's brilliant and it's tiny. And it's
these little micro things that we can do for
people to give that great example as a leader
for our team and pair you as the agency leader.
I hope you do the same thing. And I have no doubt
that you do because you have a no asshole client
rule. And I'm sure that that's the same as that
you are. uh also a no asshole boss role i'm sure
yeah well i was just going to say there's never
been one time since i started this company almost
five years now during the pandemic um that i've
never emailed or slacked anyone uh on a weekend
on a weekend night at night uh ever not once
um it can no it can wait until until monday that's
shocking to me i have to say but that's because
Not one. Hats off to you for that. That was one,
you know, thing that I got from Amy speaking
of her again back in the day was like, if it
can wait till tomorrow, it can wait till tomorrow.
There will always be something else that you
could do tonight. But if it can wait till tomorrow,
it can wait till tomorrow. Well, the problem
is if you can slack somebody on a Friday night
or Saturday night and say, don't look at this
until Monday. Well, guess what? They're already
looking at it and they're thinking about it all
goddamn weekend until Monday. So, right. It's
like saying like, hey, do you have 15 minutes?
People are like, oh my God, what is this call
going to be about? Until that 15 minutes happens,
people are like deer in headlights. Well, trigger
the anxiety attack. I can't commit to never ever
doing it in the future. So far, I have not had
to do it. And I hope that I never do. It tells
me you don't have a lot of crises at work, which
is very nice for you. I have to say, we are fairly
fortunate. We are not crisis free, but we don't
have these all -encompassing crises that I've
had in the bigger agency life. I was going to
say, I had at least two jobs that I basically
worked all weekend, every weekend, because there
was never not a crisis. It was just constant
crisis all the time. And man, that'll grind you
to death. I have to ask, how did you do that?
Cause working all weekend, every like, I'm trying
to think of someone in off the record told me
that, like, I don't know what I would say to
them other than like, get another job. That's
what happened. I mean, so I'm, I would say I'm
probably a lot like you, um, as a leader and
I advocate for people to have pretty strong boundaries
in, um, You call them non -negotiables, but whatever
they are, you should be allowed to have boundaries.
No is an acceptable answer to things, right?
Obviously, you need to learn where no is good
and where no is bad. You have to learn the right
to say no sometimes. I say no a few times, yeah.
I don't even remember what I was going to talk
about. What were you talking about? Like working
all weekend. How did you do it? Oh, working all
weekend, right. In this one job that I'm thinking
of, I had a pretty large team. And part of the
reason why I worked all weekend was to shield
them from having to work all weekend. And that
was the job that I learned that being a manager
is 90 % emotional labor, right? Like that is
such a huge piece of what my job was. And in
that job is when I really realized that like...
to your point i needed my job is to focus on
the team and see what i can do to help them do
their jobs grow in their careers blah blah blah
blah blah and then my goal was to change things
so that we could get rid of the constant weekend
grind. But when you work somewhere where there's
constant crises, you don't say something on this
because this is something that I've been like
noodling in my head and you bring it up by like
my working all weekend was to like shield everyone
else. So we're saying like these headlines about
people that are eliminating this like manager
class of people, which like, again, another reason
for off the record, because you're going to have
even less time with the boss to help you. But
like, okay, my husband's in sales. He has a sales
manager. His sales manager doesn't also have
a quota. His sales manager's number one, two,
three, four, and five job is to build up his
sales team, manage the people and help them through
getting the deals. But in comms, we don't do
that. So you have a full -time job. And then
you also have the full -time job of managing
the people who also have their full -time job
and then their full -time job of managing people.
And that's just the, I don't know the solution
to that. It's not like we're going to get more
people because we have to like prove that AI.
No, we had less people. Well, Harry's replacing
his children and mother with AI, which Brill,
by the way, very genius. I need a more sycophantic
parents in my life. Grandma ran away. She had
to run away. Anyway, so it's just that emotional
labor. I remember when I first became a people
manager and then COVID happened. I mean, I just
remember just crying at the end of the day because
it was just. 12 straight hours of being a therapist
and then having my job to do after that too.
And we don't talk about that enough. So thank
you Becca for like talking about that and bringing
that up and just kind of another reason of wanting
to build this community is like, you're not alone.
Like these are real big things you're dealing
with. Honestly, I don't even think it's unique
to comms. It's definitely not unique to sales
and maybe the sales managers of my life will
email me and say. Actually, we have a ton of
emotional labor, too. And I'm sure that that's
the case. But you don't also have a quota. So
you don't also have this whole job. It's not
like that's the thing is like the the the management
of the team and the helping the team and all
of that shouldn't be the afterthought when you
have extra time, which in comms you have you
don't have extra time. That should be part of
the job description. And should be rewarded for
you to spend the time. And it's not just like
your weekly one -on -ones, which frankly, I think
we should probably abolish one -on -ones and
figure out a more productive way to have mentorship
or build in, I guess, the... the leadership team
pieces. Um, and I, I think, you know, large companies
do it better, but you know, I've mostly worked
at small scrappy places where it is literally
just like you learn by doing. And, um, then I
was, I was knocked off my feet by. the emotional
labor aspect. No one had prepared me for that,
I guess. And I'm an empath anyway. So yeah. And
no one rewards you for it. I remember I said
this one time and then someone repeated it back
to me. So it like stuck was like, I never got
promoted for the fact that I had no attrition.
Like no one ever left my team and my team was
happy and no one ever, I never got a bonus for
that. I always use that as a data point too.
I'm like, no one's ever quit my teams. Like,
oh my God. Like why? I don't get anything. I
don't get anything for that. Like you reward
people. Like you said, sales gets rewarded for
things like that, but we don't in comms. To your
point though, you know what you get from that
is you get people that at your next job, you
can go and hire because they want to work. You
are a magnet. You take them with you to and fro.
I mean, I, yes, that, and that is not nothing.
Like, I think part of the reason I've been so
successful was because I had like a bench of
amazing people to call on. And a future job.
Yeah. And they're like, yes. So important. And
like delineates, like good bosses from not great
bosses. Yeah. I don't want to say bad bosses,
but we've all had a bad boss too. Is like, my
value is not that I'm good. It's that my team
is good. Team is good. I know. Sorry, go ahead.
No, if they can't stand in front of leadership
and be. excellent. And I have to like jump in
or take credit for their work. You vom never
going to do that. Like my value is in them. And
sometimes some CEOs and executive leaderships
don't see that. And I say, well, what are you
doing? If your team is doing all of this, like,
no, no, no, no. Again, finding a great boss.
Like you need to find an exec leadership team
who sees the value of your team rising and being
able to do so much because like. What if I get
hit by a boss? What if I want a bus? You don't
see the value you bring in terms of building
that team until they see you in action at another
table. And to your point, you don't get rewarded
for building a team that never leaves you. Well,
guess what? Eventually you're going to leave
and they see you kicking ass somewhere else.
And they're like, ah, I could have stopped that.
I could have rewarded that, but it's a little
too little, a little too late. So I want to ask
you a question about the community here again.
PR comms, I think, is a little unique in the
sense that especially during COVID and since
everyone is a bit of an island and they don't
have that mentorship and they don't have that
osmosis and they don't have those water cooler
conversations or those swivel chair moments.
Is part of this community almost like therapy
for the people who need it? And I don't mean
that in a trite sort of throwaway line way. It
kind of feels like that is a piece of this is
people need to almost commiserate. with other
people about the multi -headed hydra of a challenge
that's coming at us right now in terms of shrinking
media, AI, outlandish expectations, like all
of that. Are you viewing it through that lens
at all? Or is that me putting onto your community
something that doesn't exist? I want it to be
what the members need it to be. And I think that
the part, it's interesting, yes, to answer your
question very simply. But like a lot of my time
right now is spent planning these monthly workshops
or masterclasses and building out the template
library. And, you know, there's a lot of time
intensity in making all of those plans. But I
think that actually six months from now, when
I serve in the members and they say, what's going
to be the most valuable part of it, it's going
to be each other. It's not going to be me. It's
going to be connecting with the other like -minded
people, finding that commissary support that
it's not just me type of, you know. moments within
that literal community, the literal technology
that connects the people together, that allows
them to chat, message, call, come together. And
I can only bring the people to the table. They're
the ones who are going to make it great. And
that's why this is like an organism that's going
to be oxygenated and created better by the types
of people that it attracts, which Perry and Becca,
I think you guys have paved the way for people
like me to be like this. I am just being 100
% authentically myself. I want to attract the
type of membership who vibes with what I have
to give because I don't want to code switch.
I don't want to filter. I just want to 100 %
do and be me. I think that's going to attract
people like you both and like me and, you know,
these, this rising kind of cohort of comms leaders
soon to be leaders about to be leaders, want
to be leaders, et cetera. And, um, they're going
to get a lot out of each other for that. So just
like, if, if you guys are hearing this and you
like, like Perry and you like Becca and you like
what you hear from me, like there's a lot of
us here and like, hopefully we can come together
in a place like off the record or, you know,
other communities that exist in comms and you
can get that support. um perry i'll never forget
multi -headed hydra yes yes yes i i think also
and i've been talking a lot about this lately
and i actually think i just wrote a post about
it but i write post in the middle of the night
and then don't remember it community is the vehicle
for everything now right now like everybody is
I'm not a joiner. I mean, I look like I'm a joiner
because I do a lot of stuff. But if somebody's
like, hey, do you want to join the Pickleball
League? I'm a hard no on that just because I
don't like having things like that schedule in
addition to all of my other things. But I found
in the past two years, I am joining a ton of
communities and I am active in them. And that
is not me usually. And the reason why is because
We need that right now. And when I need a agency,
I'm going to go ask my community first before
I go out, or I need to hire somebody, which right
now I am hiring. Guess who I'm asking first?
Everybody in my communities behind closed doors,
because that is off the record. That's the safe
space. Those are the people that I know and trust
that have been curated that, you know. If I need
a specific thing, it's for this community. If
I need something else, it's that community. And
I know exactly the place to go for the thing
that I need. And it's not just one. I don't just
have the one community, right? Like I have a
cybersecurity marketing community. I have a VC
marketing community. I have a just general CMO.
And like those things really matter. And to your
point, having the one that is for communications
people who are. looking for community, there's,
there's a thing, there's an appetite there. Yeah.
Yeah. And we're all seeing like the rise of the
group chat, you know, as like being the trusted
source of information, you know, Becca and Perry,
you probably have this too, but like the parents
of the kids, my daughter is in school with. is
probably my favorite group chat. Like you need
a landscaper or you need, you know, a donation
or you need support on something like that is
the place people go. And it is such a lovely
space and place. And we've had that in our personal
lives for a long time. And now that we've lost
the work bestie, we've lost that person we go
to lunch with. We don't like walk to coffee down
the street with people anymore because we're
not in the office. We gotta build it and work.
And it's great to hear that you're a part of
a lot. And like, kind of to that point, you said
you have the VC one, you have the marketing one,
like, There's space for a lot of these places
in comms too. And appetite for it. Yes. It's
not like it's too saturated right now. Like if
people say that, right, like there's a community
for everything and there's, and it's like, I
don't know, I have a need for things that don't
exist yet. So there's white space there. You've
got to find the one that fits with what you are
looking for. And there are some communities that
are, yeah, for your vibe. your vibe and i mean
sorry i interrupted you but like that was what
you said earlier is like you don't need to be
everything to everyone because there's a different
comms community who's going to be the like buttoned
up whatever boring one i wrote a linkedin post
a few days ago like almost every topic i've written
the post on so i can always like oh i wrote a
post about that but but i wrote a post about
how um people might be surprised to learn that
I've never been a part of like PR associations.
I don't subscribe to PR week. Like I don't do
all this sort of like corporate stuff, which
is not a knock on it. It's just never been my
safe space. And I've always kind of been outside
of those lines. And I guess what I'm saying about
this group that you're making is it seems a little
bit more about like my kind of jam where I don't
want the stuffiness of everybody looking at name
placards and trying to schmooze and like work
their way up a ladder. I want to just have real,
to your point, authentic and just. honest conversations
about, let's face it, the plight that many of
us feel we're in at this moment in time. And
I think that's a refreshing thing that the corporate
stuff can't really offer you. Yeah. And Perry,
to your point on that, and I read that post and
I was like, yeah, me too. Because it's funny,
I could show you the screenshot text messages
of reaching out to mentors and previous bosses
and chief communications officers being like,
I'm struggling. i don't know what to do next
i'm not sure like i'm i'm the head of comms at
this company i like a lot of pressure is on me
there's a multi -headed hydra of crisis pillowing
on me every single day like where do i go who
do i turn to And no one has a response. And so
it's like, I built this because I needed it.
I needed a place in a space where I could go,
where I could be vulnerable, where I could ask,
like, I don't even want to say dumb questions,
but be like, yeah, I may be VP. I may have been
VP of communications at Bumble, but that doesn't
mean I wasn't Googling like how to do. Like what
to do now, right? Like, yeah, like things just
got, even when I was at Bumble, you know, at
a certain point, you know, the CMO was on maternity
leave. I took over influencer, social, celebrity,
brand activations, and like physical, you know,
pop -ups like at the US Open. And I was like,
can I say something though to that point, what
you just said? And I feel this way about AI right
now. Like we, you and I were both. heads of comms
at companies, right? We are the first heads of
comms ever to exist in the landscape that we
live in right now. So literally no one has ever
done this job. And I feel like we need to remind
ourselves of that because like we're looking
around for help, but like we are the people who
are the experts at this because nobody has ever
had this job before. The experts don't know.
You're building the plane as you fly it. Nobody
knows shit about AI. The people who are the experts
are just the ones who are talking about how they're
using it, right? I mean, there are some people
who are experts by - trade and whatever, whatever.
But like the marketing leaders who I see who
are, you know, doing keynotes about AI, they're
not an expert at AI. They're just sharing how
they're using it because they are using it. And
I feel like that's how we need to look at what
our jobs are now is like, we're the ones paving
the path. And what you're doing is so awesome
because you are saying, I just walked this road
and now I'm going to help you all as you're walking
your road, because these are the pain points
that I saw, but like, nobody has been in this
job. And because no one has been in it, it doesn't
mean that I am the foremost authority on AI and
comms. There's a good chance that there's some
assistant account executive, you know, at an
agency who's using it far better than all of
us. Like let's raise up their voice. Let's in
a community that off the record can help them
do that. I'm going to learn more, far more than
that. When you're a senior leader, like you're,
you don't have as many opportunities to learn.
And like, I actually get frustrated sometimes
because you know, I want a team that will push
back and challenge and whatever, because otherwise
it's just me up there alone, like telling people
to do things. I'm not learning anything anymore.
If that's the case, I'm just sitting on my throne,
barking orders and like, what's fun in that,
you know? Absolutely. And I even, I'm talking
about this in my free masterclass that I'm doing,
which is on like growing as a comms leader and
like kind of the secrets that I've learned along
the way and pushing back on your leader. is such
a scary thing to do but i promise you it is the
most brilliant move that you can make because
just because they're in charge doesn't mean they
can see everything you can from your seat that's
why you're there that's why you're in that seat
and like um one of the best direct reports i've
ever had in my life speaking of one -on -ones
becca she did a good job at one -on -ones like
she used them as debate opportunities where i
would be like hey like you don't need to spend
as much time on that like i know everyone let's
look over here and she's like Here's all these
things you haven't thought about before. I learned
so much from her. And I attribute so much of
my success from learning from her, even though
I was her boss. There's no ego here. We're all
just trying to be better. And I definitely spoke
her name in rooms of opportunity, no doubt. Like
I said, I'm hiring right now. And one of my main
bullets is I need somebody who's going to be
a thought partner to me, who's actually going
to bring ideas and share with me or say, no,
that's stupid. Let's not do that because X, Y,
or Z. Have an opinion, damn it. I've always said,
and you guys, I'm sure would agree that the client
isn't always right. And in fact, if they are,
why would they need you? Like, what is the point
of that? And thought partner is a great way to
say that we're on equal footing here. I'm not
looking to be anyone's vendor. I'm looking to
be your partner. And the moment that trust is
broken, I think we don't have much left, right?
You hire someone to be an expert at something,
right? Like, that's the point. Like, they bring
expertise. So I don't know. It drives me nuts.
So I want to talk a little bit about the AI world
again, because I think there's a confluence of
two things that are uniquely interesting as it
relates to your community, Gab, which is, so
I've recently been on the bandwagon about AI,
talking about how it's actually an opportunity
in this, like, world of horror that we have.
Large language models actually prioritize earned
media over paid and over owned. And they prioritize
also communities. So the community piece is actually
interesting for people. And I think we're seeing
more and more people gravitate toward communities
just organically, but it's going to ultimately
help with their personal brand and elevate their
company brand. But AI might just be an opportunity
for those of us who are. you know, feeling chagrin
about the lack of opportunity if we look at it
through the lens of earned media and community.
And those two things together can be really,
really, really powerful. And I'm just wondering,
to what extent have you thought about the AI
piece as it relates to your community? Is there
like a track or is there like sort of like a
wing of your community where you're going to
be focusing on that issue? Or is it still too
new to say? So interestingly, yesterday, I heard
a panel where they said something like there's
no such thing as a tech reporter anymore. And
there's only AI reporters. And now it's almost
like so much that it's all AI that now they're
just back to be calling tech reporters again.
And so I kind of think about that way. It's like,
there's nothing that's not AI right now. But
Perry, now you've given me some ideas because
I had ideas. Like my initial vision was that
when you joined off the record, you would get
access to all these custom GPTs that would help
like you easily build a briefing book or something.
And I had to like, I had too many things and
I had to like trim them down and like focus on
what I could launch. And I could always launch
other things later. But I never thought about
actually using the actual community as a learning
data source for a owned kind of off the record
AI bot that you could talk to in the same way
that like ChatGPT pulls from Reddit to give you
responses. So thanks for the business idea. Appreciate
it. I have an idea for you also, by the way.
why don't you have a place where people in the
community can share GPTs? So you guys can build
them for each other and share them with each
other, like a GPT library repository that are
like comms focused. Obviously you'll have the
ones you provide, but then make it a peer sharing
situation. Yes. And that is the strategy I had
for the template library. So I have a couple
that will be ready and I'm going to do a new
drop every month, like a kit. you know, an internal
comms kit that has like, you know, top to bottom,
like start the template. But what I really think
is going to be valuable is the community contributions
to the template library. And now we're going
to open up to GPTs as well, or at least prompts
or something that people can use so they can
just like speed up their work and have more time
doing the things that they actually love to do,
either in their job or in their personal life.
One thing that you might want to consider if
you haven't already, and you may have, do you
know Dave Gerhardt and his exit five community?
It's for B2B marketers specifically. And it's
as heavy on SAS specifically, but one of the
things that he has done all along, I've always
thought was really super brilliant was say to
the people that would potentially join his communities.
Like, and by the way, just tell your job that
you're joining a community for B2B and you can
expense it. Meaning. You just go to your, go
to your employer and they'll get you in that
community with their blessing, pay for it. So
it's on them. And it's a learning experience,
which it is. And it's kind of a win -win for
everyone. So it absolutely falls within learning
and development budgets. I have a template that
people can download to send to their boss to
get them to pay for it. And, you know, actually
like that kind of brings me to pricing, which
like was. the most challenging part and at least
to get started like you just got to start somewhere
and then you can evolve as time goes perry i'm
sure you've discovered this in your agency fee
structure as well but like i wanted it to be
a number that could easily be covered by an l
d budget but also like that wouldn't be too painful
out of pocket if someone wanted to pay for or
needed to pay for it and then as i was thinking
and reflecting and becca reading like a lot of
your content about how still the job market is
really hard for a lot of people i'm also going
to do something called like a job loss protection
so like if you lose your job for any reason um
no questions asked your next three months are
free like i'm just gonna cover it because you
shouldn't have to lose your community when you've
also lost your job and there's a good chance
your job paid for this and now you don't have
an income and now you know so i just Sorry to
interrupt. What about for people who don't have
jobs who want to join? Like, do you have, let's
give them their first three months. And it's
like, cause again, you know, it's communities
are great from the people that are inside them.
And I want to, you know, um, there's not a lot
that I will take from the Facebook model, but
what I will take is that there's so much value
in, in getting people bought in on the idea and
then sort of figuring out like the strategy later.
the people who are most motivated to join communities
are the people who are looking for jobs do you
know what i mean so like also if that is like
that's a good pipeline for you come have your
first three months for free once you get a job
get your work to pay for it you're in now like
plus they can network with each other help find
future employers testimonial gold i mean they're
in your community getting jobs I know. I love
it. I want to come visit your community sometime.
So please. Please do. Like, yes, you will both.
Can I get like a free pass to come visit? Oh,
absolutely. And we do a workshop, a masterclass
of training, or just like a Becca love session.
LinkedIn -ing, not being cobbler's children,
whatever it is. And Perry, I know that's actually
how I originally reached out about this is I
was like, will you come to a workshop with us?
I have all these ideas. Also, the podcast is
great. Could I come on it? And you're like, yes.
So I appreciate that. Hell to the yeah. Get on
here. Hell to the yeah. This is a perfect segue
because I'm going to move to our creepy end questions.
No, they're not creepy. Only one creepy question.
All right. One or two of them are a little creepy,
but in a good way. oh god rapid fire as we like
to call them not creepy questions although i
guess we could rebrand them as such so are you
ready let's go okay what is a myth or misconception
about communications that drives you crazy i
know you asked this one a lot and i should have
been more prepared because like A hilarious thing
that's happened to me in this, and I'm not answering
the question yet. I know it's called rapid fire,
but here I go with a long answer. I haven't been
doing like the level of prep that I make my executives.
Never, never. We waste that energy on our executives
for sure. I think, I think anything that expects
a level of measurement similar to marketing absolutely
drives me crazy. I am though on a mission to,
to master public relations. metrics. And Perry,
I'm sure you have to do this for my agency all
the time. I would love to give off the record
people like some sort of, this is how you do
it. Because I think we as an industry talk about
like measuring is so hard, but like people aren't
exactly like telling me how to do it instead.
So I think clear, defined measurement from like
the work that we do to drive sales, that doesn't
exist. And that drives me crazy. I know this
is rapid fire and I'm going to take this a little
bit far afield, but the interesting thing that
I have found throughout my career is we have
made dashboards. We have come up with proprietary
algorithms. We have hooked up to your backend
to measure who's coming to your website from
where we've done so many, so many things. And
what I've really found, and this is just true,
that as long as you have a checkbox, you could
cover this, this, this, this, this, this, this,
this, the executives like. You got the measurement.
Sweet. But they never want to look at it again.
They really don't want to see it that much. They
just want to maybe have it, can do it, and they
can put it in a board presentation at the end
of the course. That is the truth. But they don't
actually want to look at it, dig through it,
and parse it. They just want to know you got
it. They don't even care about the data that
means anything. They just want to see numbers.
Yeah, like, oh, okay, you have data that shows
something. Totally. Can you make a freaking pie
chart that'll impress the board? Yes or no? Dashboard
me. Yeah. That's true. All right, let's move
on. I'm with you. I love that, though. um and
for to I always tell people like it's always
very bespoke, like it depends on your goals,
right? So if you can create some sort of a menu
of like, here are the kinds of things you can
measure, here's how to do it and pick and choose
what works for your company. I think that's a
great idea. Yeah, I think bespoke is the right
thing. Like I remember one product launch we
did at Bumble where like my number one measure
of success was that there wasn't a misconception
about the product that they like got that single
message right. And so I was like, 87 % of the
articles got this message right. And like, that
was my thing. I don't know if that's what the
executives cared as much about, but I was head
of comms, so I was supposed to define what success
was. And thankfully, I worked with a leadership
team that allowed me to do that. We have a client
right now that wants to talk to us about ad value
equivalency. I'm not kidding. I'm not kidding.
It's happening right now. All right, move on.
Okay. You get to erase one corporate buzzword
from existence. What is it? Okay. I actually
did think about this one. And it's kind of an
old one, but it's the word operationalize. It
was one that we used in my enterprise SaaS startup
days so much. And we also pretended we were a
UK based company for like half a minute there.
And so we would spell operationalize with an
S instead of a Z. And I hated it and I wanted
it to disappear altogether. And then I think
everyone says, you know, like the thrilled and
excited, you know, it's so funny. I also am like,
good morning to everyone, except for those who
say thrilled and excited in press releases. But
when I was like launching off the record, I am
so excited. I am enthralled. So it's like, it's
so funny that like, I can be like, duh, duh,
duh, you know, about all these things. But when
it comes to me, I'm like, I'm just super excited.
A hundred percent. I always say like I would
fire myself if I was my own like PR slash whatever
person, just because like I don't use any strategy
for my own stuff. I spend that, I leave all that
at work, I guess. If you represent your court,
yourself in court, you have a fool for a client.
There you go. Exactly. Okay. You're about to
give a presentation in front of 50 ,000 people.
What is your walkout song? Ooh, uh, am I allowed
to say Kendrick Lamar? Not like us. Yeah. Okay.
That song, like I have been just so deep since
before the Superbowl, but since the Superbowl
halftime performance, especially like I am, I
am in many deep Reddit threads, YouTube rabbit
holes. I am here for it. So, um, and it has to
be the explicit version, obviously. I love it.
Best answer yet, in my humble opinion. I'm really
into peekaboo right now from Kendrick. Well,
I wouldn't even say right now for like the last
like six months because it's like a dopamine
song for me. It's great. So if you guys haven't
listened to that, highly recommend if you need
a little energy boost. Okay. If you had to do
a TED talk about anything but communications,
what would it be? Personal finance. So little
tweaks and strategies you can make to start getting
in control of your money and spending. Wow. Comms
expert and personal finance expert. Those two
things don't usually stick together all that
much. Math and comms. I shouldn't have been in
comms. So it's funny. IAP tested out of math
and science in college. um i should have gone
into math and science and i like didn't do as
well on like the english kind of part of things
but like i don't know if i'm a masochist or something
but like that's what i went into oh this is hard
for me like let me work on that i love numbers
but um if anyone wants my first personal finance
tip it's very easy it's saved at the beginning
of your paycheck not at the end whatever lands
into your debit or your like checking account
that's the money you can spend because you've
already saved on the front end So I have to ask
you this. I know we're trying to do rapid fire
here, but these are so interesting. Your answers
are interesting. So in your community, is there
a path or a lane to talk about the personal finance
piece? I think that would be goddamn fabulous.
Yeah, I'm actually have it like set up as one
of the workshops this fall is like, yeah, because
like, again, like. And it's so funny. It's like,
I just kind of want to do whatever I want to
do right now. And I love talking about personal
finance. So we're going to do a session on it.
We'll probably mix it in with like productivity
hacks, like little things like, um, here's one.
So I'm a hundred percent always on do not disturb.
100 % of the time, but there are certain people
that can interrupt my do not disturb. And those
people change. So right now my baby is with a
babysitter. She's a pastor on my do not disturb,
but she's not going to be on it over the weekend
when he's not with her. So like little things
like that. It's not just about comms. Again,
I feel like this community could kind of be for
anybody, but I'm obviously focused on comms,
but yeah, we'll do, we'll do personal finance.
We'll do productivity. We'll do non -comms things
because it's what I feel like talking about.
Love it. This show is kind of like that. We'll
talk about comms. We'll go way over here and
way over there. Cause we can. I love how you
guys are like new episodes whenever we feel like
it. Yes. Well, like work doesn't stop when you
leave work, right? Especially comms people. Like
we're just, you know, it's, it's all intertwined.
So you have to be able to talk about all the
things with your community. Anyway. Okay. You
get one, you get to use one emoji for the rest
of your life. Which one? it's like this hands
one like oh you know like with the like hands
like the high the double high five yeah i i don't
see it as a double high five that's so weird
i see it as almost like a like a bow down like
you know like hand raised like you are really
i always just thought it was like a double like
you know what's funny perry is like Slack did
these global surveys on emoji usage and how different
countries interpret emojis in different ways.
And now I'm realizing like, I maybe have been
doing my favorite emoji wrong. Maybe we need
to like do a poll on this. This is fascinating.
Yeah. You think it's like, Jesus, take the wheel
kind of thing. I mean, and maybe a lot of people
think that most of the time I'm telling Jesus
to take the wheel when I'm just going like. Girl,
you got it. You are amazing. Hail. Bow down.
Wow. This is enlightening. Oh, my God. That's
hilarious. Perry gets to take the wheel now,
speaking of taking the wheel. Go ahead. Things
get real serious now. So if you listen to the
podcast, you may have heard this question, and
it has to do with hiccups and pinkies. Here's
a choice. You must either have hiccups for three
months straight, uninterrupted. You can't medicate
them away. You can't do anything. You must sleep
with hiccups. You must speak with hiccups. You'd
be on this podcast with hiccups around the clock
for three months. Three months. That's a long
time. Or you can get rid of that problem immediately
by severing your pinky. What do you choose and
why? I know you are team hiccups, Perry. It's
so weird because you talk like for your job.
and you have children and you have a wife and
you would just be hiccuping the whole time really
attached to your pinkies but like frankly they're
kind of useless i know i know i know i would
have bet a lot of money gab that you would have
said i'm keeping my pinky you're gonna cut your
pinky painful question did you invent this one
like this is like a weird torture chamber because
i am a wife invented somebody invented it in
perry's family i think i either heard it or we
invented it in my family sometime a while ago
but i i just It's great dinner table conversation.
You know, my sister told me that like, so she
was like a really baddie in high school and is
now like much better. And she says that sometimes
she's driving and she looks at her pinkies. This
is maybe TMI, but she like wants to cut them
off or how much she tortured my mom when she
was in high school. And so like, that's all I'm
thinking about is my sister driving her car,
looking at her pinkies and being like, I gave
them up for hiccups. Your sister going like this.
Now you have to change your hand emojis. Wait,
okay, okay, okay, okay. So here's what we're
going to do. It's all coming together. Get rid
of my pinkies, and then I'll change my favorite
emoji. I'm sorry for anyone not watching the
YouTube video. I know. We're just holding up.
The video, I mean, you really need the video
for this. Go back and go on YouTube and just
scroll to potential. You must listen to this
one. You must see. Any other like painful questions
you guys have for me? Well, we have the shark
one. Should we do the shark one? A minute left.
Go ahead. Pretty morbid at the end of the show.
All right. You can have a $100 million given
to you today to use as you've. Freely choose,
give it away, build a trust, do whatever you
want. Go on vacation, do whatever the hell you
want. $100 million. However, if you accept the
money, the day you turn 90, you will, no matter
what you do to avoid it, be devoured by a shark
until you're dead. One. thousand hundred percent.
I am taking this money. Um, I have like, this
is like a piece of advice that I give to all
the people. Um, because I guess as comms people,
we become so like, I'm going to bring it back
to comms, like a good comms person here. We,
um, we feel just like so much attachment to our
jobs and our companies because we are the protector
of the brand and I have to remind them. And sorry,
Perry, I know you like own an agency too, but
so I'm sorry that I'm going to say this, but
like. All we are to our jobs is a contractual
agreement where we give them our brain and many
hours a week and they put money into our Wells
Fargo account every other week. Like that's it.
That's the contract. That's the agreement. So
now what you're saying with those $100 ,000 is
like you eliminate this need for me to have this
contractual agreement with the company. And now
I have the freedom to do whatever I want, which
by the way, would probably be starting off the
record. So this is why this is a very exciting
time for me. The one problem though, 90s nice.
But I actually think we're about to live a lot
longer than that. But there's no guarantee that
I'm not going to get eaten by a shark anyway.
So I guess I'll take 100 million. Or die before
90. I'm worried I'm going to die every day. You
have to live until that point. All right, I'm
going to change this parameter. 85 years old.
85 years old. That's the time you're going to
get eaten by a shark. Yeah, I guess at the same
time, I want to understand how much AI is going
to make living at 85 awesome or not awesome.
You're going to be perfectly healthy at 85. perfectly
healthy grandkids whatever no i i definitely
i'm still taking the hundred million dollars
yeah because actually i think that knowing that
i'm going to die at a certain day is a very cool
way to live um because you can like do so much
and like set so much up and like I will meet
my grandkids. I may even meet great grandkids
by then. And then it's like, they're getting
to live their best life. They're like AI, future
world, where all they do is like, I don't know,
arts and crafts all day. I don't know what we'll
do when the robots take over. Plus, they have
a hundred mil from grandma. Well, and more because
I'm a personal finance girlie. You know, I'm
going to grow it. So the lie that I'd like to
think most of us tell ourselves is that we're
going to live forever. And the reality of actually
dying, especially on a specific date by a specific
animal with a ton of teeth. Sounds terrible.
I think it would happen quickly. Like you'd bleed
out pretty quick. So it's like, it'd be over.
If you live with an anxiety disorder every day,
like I'm worried about this all the time. Like,
I mean, seriously, like every day of my life,
I'm worried I'm going to get eaten by a shark.
I'm not even in the ocean. So like, come on.
You bleed out pretty quick, says Gab. And with
that, it's a wrap. Thank you, Carrie and Megan,
for having me. This was a great way to spend
a morning. Thank you. Seriously, this has been
so much fun. I am super excited for you and the
community, and I will definitely pop in there
at some point. Shoot me a little invite or something,
and maybe we will do, I don't know, a panel.
Maybe we'll get together and do a workshop, something
like that. Maybe we can do like a live podcast
where the members ask you all questions. That
would actually be pretty fun. We get to do whatever
we want because we're making it up. Whatever
we want. Greenfield opportunity. Love it. All
right. So this is fantastic. Thanks so much.
And have a good rest of your day.