WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.080 It was a guy with a turtleneck that came into 00:00:02.080 --> 00:00:06.459 our office and it was in a room with no windows, 00:00:06.580 --> 00:00:09.919 no access to anybody. I was the only one with 00:00:09.919 --> 00:00:13.779 a key. He had chained the device to a table that 00:00:13.779 --> 00:00:17.719 couldn't move and I wasn't supposed to show what 00:00:17.719 --> 00:00:20.480 I was working on to anyone, not even to talk 00:00:20.480 --> 00:00:23.899 about it with my husband. And about a few weeks 00:00:23.899 --> 00:00:28.100 after I finished it, it turns out that... That's 00:00:28.100 --> 00:00:30.719 the app that got keynoted by Steve Jobs on stage. 00:00:30.879 --> 00:00:34.020 And all of a sudden, Thomson Reuters got 30 million 00:00:34.020 --> 00:00:37.859 new users because they've decided to pre -install 00:00:37.859 --> 00:00:42.780 the app on iPads. Welcome to Under Embargo, the 00:00:42.780 --> 00:00:45.340 podcast that says the quiet part out loud about 00:00:45.340 --> 00:00:47.899 PR, communications and the chaos in between. 00:00:48.590 --> 00:00:51.250 hosted by two of LinkedIn's most connected comms 00:00:51.250 --> 00:00:54.530 pros, Becca Chambers, a no BS corporate comms 00:00:54.530 --> 00:00:58.030 exec with raging ADHD, and Pari Hedrick, founder 00:00:58.030 --> 00:01:01.170 of tech PR firm Crackle PR. This show brings 00:01:01.170 --> 00:01:04.310 it all. Real talk, sharp insights, and the kind 00:01:04.310 --> 00:01:06.590 of industry truths they don't put in press releases. 00:01:06.969 --> 00:01:10.870 No fluff, no filters, no f***s given. This is 00:01:10.870 --> 00:01:15.650 Under Embargo. Let's get into it. Welcome to... 00:01:16.159 --> 00:01:18.980 the Under Embargo podcast. I am your host, Becca 00:01:18.980 --> 00:01:21.640 Chambers. I'm the CMO of Scale Venture Partners. 00:01:22.019 --> 00:01:26.019 My co -host, Perry Hedrick, who you will notice 00:01:26.019 --> 00:01:30.180 is absent today. So I'm doing this solo for the 00:01:30.180 --> 00:01:33.640 first time. ever, although I have an excellent, 00:01:33.980 --> 00:01:36.939 I guess we can call Alina my co -host today, 00:01:37.040 --> 00:01:39.900 although she is also my guest. So no judgment 00:01:39.900 --> 00:01:44.260 of me trying to host the show alone, but I am 00:01:44.260 --> 00:01:47.280 super excited for today's guest. She has one 00:01:47.280 --> 00:01:49.739 of the most compelling founder journeys that 00:01:49.739 --> 00:01:52.239 I've heard, and I've actually heard a lot of 00:01:52.239 --> 00:01:55.420 founder journeys. So Alina Vandenberg is the 00:01:55.420 --> 00:01:59.299 co -founder and co -CEO of Chili Piper and her 00:01:59.299 --> 00:02:02.780 path to building a very respected, one of the 00:02:02.780 --> 00:02:05.079 most respected names in revenue tech is pretty 00:02:05.079 --> 00:02:07.659 amazing. So I will dig into some of her background 00:02:07.659 --> 00:02:11.099 in the podcast. So no spoilers now. But Alina 00:02:11.099 --> 00:02:13.419 has been hustling since she was eight years old. 00:02:13.520 --> 00:02:15.639 She's an immigrant with a master's in computer 00:02:15.639 --> 00:02:19.259 science, and she's had her apps featured. by 00:02:19.259 --> 00:02:22.300 the likes of Steve Jobs himself. And she's founded 00:02:22.300 --> 00:02:25.319 a company with her husband. And they are now 00:02:25.319 --> 00:02:27.860 reimagining how B2B revenue teams are operating 00:02:27.860 --> 00:02:30.759 and solving really complicated business problems. 00:02:31.240 --> 00:02:33.539 And if you've been on LinkedIn for any amount 00:02:33.539 --> 00:02:35.460 of time, you're sure to have seen Alina there 00:02:35.460 --> 00:02:38.060 because she's building a super authentic brand 00:02:38.060 --> 00:02:40.719 that I love. And that's how I found her and started 00:02:40.719 --> 00:02:42.599 following her. So I'm really happy to have her 00:02:42.599 --> 00:02:47.030 here. Welcome to Under Embargo. Thank you, Becca. 00:02:47.189 --> 00:02:50.229 It feels a privilege for a nerd like me to be 00:02:50.229 --> 00:02:54.189 invited on a communication podcast. No, it's 00:02:54.189 --> 00:02:56.229 my privilege. I'm so happy to have you here. 00:02:57.229 --> 00:02:59.770 Well, let me just, can I just have you kind of 00:02:59.770 --> 00:03:03.289 introduce yourself and Chili Piper and, you know, 00:03:03.310 --> 00:03:08.150 maybe just a little bit about your journey? As 00:03:08.150 --> 00:03:10.830 you said, I started working ever since I can 00:03:10.830 --> 00:03:14.520 remember. I didn't know that I wanted to become 00:03:14.520 --> 00:03:17.099 an entrepreneur, but I started working because 00:03:17.099 --> 00:03:22.000 I had to. And I thought my dream would be to 00:03:22.000 --> 00:03:25.860 climb the ladder in corporate America, which 00:03:25.860 --> 00:03:29.199 I did. I started working as an intern at Thomson 00:03:29.199 --> 00:03:31.139 Reuters and I worked for Bloomberg and some other 00:03:31.139 --> 00:03:36.259 publicly traded company. And I realized that 00:03:36.259 --> 00:03:40.639 what I really love is building things. And I 00:03:40.639 --> 00:03:42.840 wanted to see if I can start a company where 00:03:42.840 --> 00:03:46.259 I can just do that. So it's an ongoing experiment. 00:03:47.919 --> 00:03:52.819 What was the first thing that you built? When 00:03:52.819 --> 00:03:56.439 I started my first job here in America at Thomson 00:03:56.439 --> 00:04:00.560 Reuters, it was an application for news for Thomson 00:04:00.560 --> 00:04:02.960 Reuters on the iPad. It was before the iPad was 00:04:02.960 --> 00:04:05.259 launched. There was a guy with a turtleneck that 00:04:05.259 --> 00:04:09.819 came into our office. It was in a room with no 00:04:09.819 --> 00:04:13.379 windows, no access to anybody. I was the only 00:04:13.379 --> 00:04:16.620 one with a key. He had chained the device to 00:04:16.620 --> 00:04:20.920 a table that couldn't move. And I wasn't supposed 00:04:20.920 --> 00:04:23.439 to show what I was working on to anyone, not 00:04:23.439 --> 00:04:26.819 even to talk about it with my husband. And about 00:04:26.819 --> 00:04:30.259 a few weeks after I finished it, it turns out 00:04:30.259 --> 00:04:33.600 that that's the app that got keynoted by Steve 00:04:33.600 --> 00:04:36.160 Jobs on stage. And all of a sudden, Thomson Reuters 00:04:36.160 --> 00:04:40.370 got 30 new... million new users because they've 00:04:40.370 --> 00:04:45.129 decided to pre -install the app on iPads. That 00:04:45.129 --> 00:04:49.769 is amazing. Okay, so I need to know more about 00:04:49.769 --> 00:04:52.910 this. So you were building it for the iPad, but 00:04:52.910 --> 00:04:55.610 you didn't really know that you were building 00:04:55.610 --> 00:04:57.509 it for the iPad. You just knew you were building 00:04:57.509 --> 00:05:01.129 it for this kind of secret thing. Did you know 00:05:01.129 --> 00:05:04.040 it was going to... Sorry, go ahead. It was like 00:05:04.040 --> 00:05:07.199 in a metal chain, so I could see the device, 00:05:07.319 --> 00:05:09.240 but we didn't know the name of it. We didn't 00:05:09.240 --> 00:05:11.699 know what's going to happen to it. It was under, 00:05:11.899 --> 00:05:15.560 yeah. Well, as Apple always is, right? Everything 00:05:15.560 --> 00:05:18.379 is like super secretive. Did you, so you had 00:05:18.379 --> 00:05:21.079 just kind of like working specs that you needed 00:05:21.079 --> 00:05:24.300 to work like with, right? To be able to create 00:05:24.300 --> 00:05:27.480 a thing. Well, it was the beginning, right? So 00:05:27.480 --> 00:05:29.899 they didn't really have like guidelines for it. 00:05:30.120 --> 00:05:34.279 They didn't. quite know what precisely the apps 00:05:34.279 --> 00:05:37.000 on it would look like. But we did have the iPhone 00:05:37.000 --> 00:05:39.279 as an example. And so it was somewhat easier 00:05:39.279 --> 00:05:42.480 imagining how to take that to a larger screen. 00:05:43.120 --> 00:05:46.360 But still, it was a lot of fun to kind of develop 00:05:46.360 --> 00:05:49.120 without much distraction. Yeah, that's super 00:05:49.120 --> 00:05:50.620 cool. And did you have any idea it was going 00:05:50.620 --> 00:05:52.779 to be on the stage? Or was that a surprise? No 00:05:52.779 --> 00:05:56.240 idea. No, no idea. That's so cool. I was definitely 00:05:56.240 --> 00:05:59.740 surprised. What was your reaction when that happened? 00:06:00.959 --> 00:06:03.879 Oh my gosh, I thought that I made it to America. 00:06:03.879 --> 00:06:07.519 I was interviewed by the New York Times. We were 00:06:07.519 --> 00:06:11.259 in Times Square. The app was everywhere. I even 00:06:11.259 --> 00:06:15.139 have a picture of it. I couldn't believe my luck. 00:06:15.300 --> 00:06:17.199 I could barely speak English, but here I was 00:06:17.199 --> 00:06:22.040 in New York Times. Totally. Did that have a profound 00:06:22.040 --> 00:06:25.379 impact on your career? Just that moment, kind 00:06:25.379 --> 00:06:29.430 of? Did that help launch you? It gave me a lot 00:06:29.430 --> 00:06:33.589 of confidence for sure. If I could do this fast, 00:06:33.769 --> 00:06:38.470 what else did I have in me? Totally. What a cool 00:06:38.470 --> 00:06:45.029 moment. So you are from Romania. How did you 00:06:45.029 --> 00:06:50.490 make your way here? My husband imported me. That's 00:06:50.490 --> 00:06:53.149 the short answer. Where's your husband from? 00:06:54.339 --> 00:06:57.620 He's French, but he was living here for a long 00:06:57.620 --> 00:06:59.980 time and he had the American citizenship. Nice. 00:07:00.040 --> 00:07:03.959 Did you meet him here? No, I met him in Romania. 00:07:04.540 --> 00:07:08.019 Oh, okay. All right. Very nice. And did you guys 00:07:08.019 --> 00:07:13.779 found your company in the US or in Romania? So 00:07:13.779 --> 00:07:17.680 the company we started together in 2016 and he 00:07:17.680 --> 00:07:20.540 was a serial entrepreneur. So he started many 00:07:20.540 --> 00:07:22.220 companies. Some of them went bankrupt. Some of 00:07:22.220 --> 00:07:25.000 them did well. And he said, you know, with this 00:07:25.000 --> 00:07:26.600 talent that you have in product, you should start 00:07:26.600 --> 00:07:29.519 a company. You should try to start a company 00:07:29.519 --> 00:07:32.019 with me. And he kept insisting and insisting 00:07:32.019 --> 00:07:34.379 and insisting. And eventually I said, fine, I'll 00:07:34.379 --> 00:07:38.379 do it, but only if I'm the CEO. Nice. So how 00:07:38.379 --> 00:07:41.519 did Chili Pfeiffer come to be? Like, why that 00:07:41.519 --> 00:07:49.420 business? I didn't quite know what we will do. 00:07:49.519 --> 00:07:52.319 I didn't have a master plan like most entrepreneurs. 00:07:52.459 --> 00:07:55.959 I just knew that I loved building things and 00:07:55.959 --> 00:08:01.339 especially my brain works best when the complexities 00:08:01.339 --> 00:08:04.920 of the software are hard to crack. In this case, 00:08:04.939 --> 00:08:06.720 enterprise software is really, really complicated 00:08:06.720 --> 00:08:10.199 to figure it out. And I was seeing, at the time 00:08:10.199 --> 00:08:12.680 I was working with Oracle, I was working with 00:08:12.680 --> 00:08:16.600 Salesforce and I felt, you know, And B2B software 00:08:16.600 --> 00:08:18.879 is usually boring. I don't want to build boring 00:08:18.879 --> 00:08:22.360 software, but I want to see if I can use my B2C 00:08:22.360 --> 00:08:25.620 kind of talent and apply it to the boring software. 00:08:25.879 --> 00:08:28.720 And I was just curious. I really was just curious 00:08:28.720 --> 00:08:31.680 to see what can be done and if I can use my talent 00:08:31.680 --> 00:08:35.840 there. And what do you think the biggest kind 00:08:35.840 --> 00:08:40.620 of like technical challenges have you helped? 00:08:41.100 --> 00:08:45.759 overcome in that space using your B2C minded 00:08:45.759 --> 00:08:51.860 brain? I literally went and I applied principles 00:08:51.860 --> 00:08:54.899 from B2C buying experience into the B2B world 00:08:54.899 --> 00:09:00.580 and made sure that, you know, when we want something 00:09:00.580 --> 00:09:03.100 as consumers, we press the button on Amazon Prime 00:09:03.100 --> 00:09:06.330 in three seconds is at our door. And B2B is a 00:09:06.330 --> 00:09:08.309 lot more complicated. You go to somebody's website, 00:09:08.549 --> 00:09:10.350 you have to figure out who you're supposed to 00:09:10.350 --> 00:09:13.309 talk to, you have to wait for them. On the seller 00:09:13.309 --> 00:09:15.090 side, there's a buying group, which is harder 00:09:15.090 --> 00:09:20.149 to wrangle and then move towards the right parts 00:09:20.149 --> 00:09:22.190 of the funnel. So it's a lot more complicated. 00:09:22.190 --> 00:09:25.490 And I figured that there's a way to improve that 00:09:25.490 --> 00:09:29.070 buying experience. And there are still a lot 00:09:29.070 --> 00:09:31.779 of things that can be improved. nine years into 00:09:31.779 --> 00:09:36.120 it, I still think that there are a million ways 00:09:36.120 --> 00:09:40.100 to improve it. For sure. I mean, I have an example 00:09:40.100 --> 00:09:42.600 just from this week. I am evaluating some vendors 00:09:42.600 --> 00:09:46.360 for some software that I want. And one of the 00:09:46.360 --> 00:09:48.419 vendors, I was able to get a demo immediately. 00:09:48.940 --> 00:09:52.620 Great. The other one, I just want a demo. You 00:09:52.620 --> 00:09:54.820 know, I just want to see it so that I can evaluate. 00:09:54.940 --> 00:09:56.740 And I haven't been able to get an email back. 00:09:57.039 --> 00:09:58.990 And it's like, I just want to see the... the 00:09:58.990 --> 00:10:01.169 damn product. You know, I don't want to wait. 00:10:01.230 --> 00:10:02.490 I don't want to talk. I don't even want to talk 00:10:02.490 --> 00:10:04.009 to somebody. I just want to play with it myself, 00:10:04.210 --> 00:10:06.769 you know? And instead I have to wait. Am I going 00:10:06.769 --> 00:10:08.690 to be able to talk to somebody? I don't know. 00:10:08.750 --> 00:10:11.990 It's like, I'm going to end up abandoning even 00:10:11.990 --> 00:10:15.389 like seeing that product just because it's this 00:10:15.389 --> 00:10:19.610 whole long process and dance and whatever. And 00:10:19.610 --> 00:10:22.710 I just want to maybe buy the product, but no, 00:10:22.769 --> 00:10:25.029 it's a whole thing. I totally agree. I'll have 00:10:25.029 --> 00:10:27.269 to call them after our conversation to make sure 00:10:27.269 --> 00:10:29.730 that they buy Tilly Piper. Seriously. I know. 00:10:29.830 --> 00:10:31.490 I'm going to be like, hey, I've got somebody 00:10:31.490 --> 00:10:36.009 for you. Maybe improve your buying process. But 00:10:36.009 --> 00:10:39.409 I feel the same way actually about marketing 00:10:39.409 --> 00:10:43.090 in B2B. Like I think the way that people market 00:10:43.090 --> 00:10:47.129 B2B products is this like very stiff, whatever. 00:10:47.190 --> 00:10:52.340 And it doesn't need to be. We can do consumer 00:10:52.340 --> 00:10:54.580 marketing. We can take principles from consumer 00:10:54.580 --> 00:10:57.039 marketing and use that in B2B marketing. You 00:10:57.039 --> 00:11:00.659 know, we can have a more human centric marketing. 00:11:02.279 --> 00:11:04.360 I don't know what the word I'm looking for is, 00:11:04.440 --> 00:11:07.700 but the way that we talk to people doesn't need 00:11:07.700 --> 00:11:11.600 to be this very like business stuffy thing that 00:11:11.600 --> 00:11:14.019 we've always done. I don't know the enterprise 00:11:14.019 --> 00:11:16.840 voice that we're used to. I'm so over it. And 00:11:16.840 --> 00:11:21.879 I wish that. more enterprises would take a lesson 00:11:21.879 --> 00:11:24.179 from the consumer brands that are just having 00:11:24.179 --> 00:11:26.559 more fun with their marketing, you know? I think 00:11:26.559 --> 00:11:32.419 we could all agree. I 100 % agree with you. So 00:11:32.419 --> 00:11:36.259 you have described yourself as a miserable employee. 00:11:37.919 --> 00:11:41.700 What are red flags that told you that you needed 00:11:41.700 --> 00:11:45.129 to build your own thing? A couple of things. 00:11:45.169 --> 00:11:48.509 One is I love traveling and I couldn't stand 00:11:48.509 --> 00:11:53.450 being stuck in one location under a neon light 00:11:53.450 --> 00:11:57.230 without any access to nature or any of those 00:11:57.230 --> 00:12:00.830 things. I think that when you're more of a creative 00:12:00.830 --> 00:12:03.070 type and you get your ideas when you walk or 00:12:03.070 --> 00:12:05.370 when you're changing environment, it's a lot 00:12:05.370 --> 00:12:10.009 more conducive to better work. The second one. 00:12:10.509 --> 00:12:12.970 was related to decision making in large corporations. 00:12:13.210 --> 00:12:16.950 You get to climb the ladder if you really get 00:12:16.950 --> 00:12:19.250 good at politics. And I started getting good 00:12:19.250 --> 00:12:21.269 at that, but I didn't like that that was the 00:12:21.269 --> 00:12:24.009 case. I felt that there has to be a better way 00:12:24.009 --> 00:12:26.090 where talent is the one that gets at the top. 00:12:26.409 --> 00:12:29.950 And that's what I'm aiming to do at Chili Piper 00:12:29.950 --> 00:12:31.789 as well, where all decisions are transparent. 00:12:33.500 --> 00:12:35.179 Everyone can make a decision that changes the 00:12:35.179 --> 00:12:37.600 business. Anyone can contribute. It doesn't matter 00:12:37.600 --> 00:12:39.019 where you are in the ladder and everything is 00:12:39.019 --> 00:12:43.139 transparent. So everybody sees everything. And 00:12:43.139 --> 00:12:47.200 it's one big experiment, but I do believe that 00:12:47.200 --> 00:12:52.120 it's a lot more, it's a better system in which 00:12:52.120 --> 00:12:53.700 everybody feels like they're contributing as 00:12:53.700 --> 00:12:55.720 opposed to just people who are louder or who 00:12:55.720 --> 00:12:58.340 are more astute from a political standpoint. 00:12:59.450 --> 00:13:03.429 For sure. I mean, oftentimes the quiet, thoughtful 00:13:03.429 --> 00:13:06.070 people are the ones who don't have their voices 00:13:06.070 --> 00:13:08.889 heard, but are the ones who have like super important 00:13:08.889 --> 00:13:12.870 perspectives. But how are you fostering that 00:13:12.870 --> 00:13:17.330 culture and making sure that those quieter voices 00:13:17.330 --> 00:13:20.690 are having their voices heard as part of this? 00:13:21.710 --> 00:13:25.210 We have actually documented it in an OceanDoc 00:13:25.210 --> 00:13:28.250 because all my CEO friends ask me about how we 00:13:28.250 --> 00:13:29.970 make decisions because it's very unusual. And 00:13:29.970 --> 00:13:34.210 we have this thing, we call it a decision memo. 00:13:34.370 --> 00:13:37.210 So it's a Google Doc. And we have thousands of 00:13:37.210 --> 00:13:39.250 thousands of such documents. And everyone can 00:13:39.250 --> 00:13:42.009 create a decision about anything. Could be our 00:13:42.009 --> 00:13:45.190 pricing, could be who we're going after. So our 00:13:45.190 --> 00:13:49.149 segments, our ICP, could be what's the right 00:13:49.149 --> 00:13:52.149 org structure for their particular team. So they 00:13:52.149 --> 00:13:54.110 start with a problem statement and then they 00:13:54.110 --> 00:13:56.529 start why they need to fix that problem now and 00:13:56.529 --> 00:13:59.210 then potential options on how to solve that problem. 00:13:59.529 --> 00:14:03.210 And those documents, nobody in the company can 00:14:03.210 --> 00:14:05.149 make a decision without starting such a document. 00:14:05.429 --> 00:14:09.110 And those documents are open to anyone. Anyone 00:14:09.110 --> 00:14:12.850 can contribute with options and thoughts. For 00:14:12.850 --> 00:14:14.809 each one of these decisions, we have what's called 00:14:14.809 --> 00:14:19.549 a consensus caller. Not it's a vote, but everybody 00:14:19.549 --> 00:14:22.970 gets input back into the decision. And then there's 00:14:22.970 --> 00:14:24.830 a consensus that needs to happen. So if you have 00:14:24.830 --> 00:14:26.909 voices that are completely against the solution, 00:14:27.090 --> 00:14:29.570 then you have to make sure that their view is 00:14:29.570 --> 00:14:35.129 respected and that you include their data, et 00:14:35.129 --> 00:14:37.789 cetera, so that the decision can move in the 00:14:37.789 --> 00:14:40.190 best direction. And we have deadlines because 00:14:40.190 --> 00:14:42.990 otherwise the decision can stall forever. And 00:14:42.990 --> 00:14:45.110 you can put like a two hour deadline or 30 minutes 00:14:45.110 --> 00:14:47.929 deadline, like a few minutes, a few days deadline. 00:14:48.889 --> 00:14:52.450 And we've got used to documenting everything, 00:14:52.590 --> 00:14:56.570 rationalizing everything and seeing more options 00:14:56.570 --> 00:14:59.289 than maybe it's possible at the first glance. 00:15:00.090 --> 00:15:04.029 That's super interesting. When you bring new 00:15:04.029 --> 00:15:07.990 employees on, how do you like onboard them into 00:15:07.990 --> 00:15:12.320 this system? At the beginning, it's very overwhelming 00:15:12.320 --> 00:15:14.259 because you have all sorts of decisions kind 00:15:14.259 --> 00:15:17.179 of flying everywhere all the time. And you feel 00:15:17.179 --> 00:15:21.820 like things are moving very fast. But after a 00:15:21.820 --> 00:15:23.600 while, they get used to it and they contribute 00:15:23.600 --> 00:15:25.000 and they can start their own decision making. 00:15:25.320 --> 00:15:28.019 And it's very empowering because usually you 00:15:28.019 --> 00:15:29.559 join a company and you feel like you're just 00:15:29.559 --> 00:15:33.860 a cog in the machine. And at Chili Piper, everybody 00:15:33.860 --> 00:15:38.019 takes ownership over things. Not everybody survives. 00:15:38.200 --> 00:15:40.460 Not everybody survives. But those that do are 00:15:40.460 --> 00:15:44.419 very resilient and action -oriented. How large 00:15:44.419 --> 00:15:47.539 is Chili Piper? How many people? So we're in 00:15:47.539 --> 00:15:50.860 38 countries. And so that's why the decision 00:15:50.860 --> 00:15:53.600 -making process has to be written. We're in different 00:15:53.600 --> 00:15:55.799 time zones and with very different culturally. 00:15:56.460 --> 00:16:00.320 And that's kind of the beauty of it. Right now, 00:16:00.340 --> 00:16:03.879 we have 140 employees that are human and then 00:16:03.879 --> 00:16:08.649 thousands of AI agents. Yeah, I like that you 00:16:08.649 --> 00:16:12.870 couched it like that, that you have the human 00:16:12.870 --> 00:16:15.309 employees and then you have your agents as well. 00:16:15.549 --> 00:16:19.889 And do you have humans running the agents? We 00:16:19.889 --> 00:16:25.529 have agents running the humans. It's all included. 00:16:25.990 --> 00:16:29.350 Where do you have the AI? What parts of your 00:16:29.350 --> 00:16:35.220 business do you have AI most? Where are the agents 00:16:35.220 --> 00:16:37.799 most automating, I guess, right now? What part 00:16:37.799 --> 00:16:41.940 of the business? It's a lot on the GTM functions. 00:16:42.159 --> 00:16:44.759 I actually wrote another Notion doc exactly with 00:16:44.759 --> 00:16:46.820 examples of all the agents that we've built. 00:16:47.159 --> 00:16:50.600 Really? Can you share it? Is it shareable? I 00:16:50.600 --> 00:16:53.340 can share both Notions. No, no, no. I would love 00:16:53.340 --> 00:16:57.679 to see it. Keep updating them, yeah. We have 00:16:57.679 --> 00:17:02.379 Slack channels where everybody can build agents. 00:17:03.159 --> 00:17:07.039 And it's actually part of the promotion process. 00:17:07.200 --> 00:17:08.880 If you want to get promoted at Chili Piper, you 00:17:08.880 --> 00:17:10.579 have to show that you've built pages, that you're 00:17:10.579 --> 00:17:12.759 innovative, that you're thinking about how to 00:17:12.759 --> 00:17:16.759 improve your activities. And anybody can volunteer. 00:17:16.759 --> 00:17:20.299 Anybody can volunteer for ideas. And yeah, it's 00:17:20.299 --> 00:17:23.619 very organic and a little bit chaotic, but it's 00:17:23.619 --> 00:17:27.160 also fun. I love that, though, because, you know, 00:17:27.200 --> 00:17:31.440 if you work somewhere that... AI is just not 00:17:31.440 --> 00:17:34.380 in the DNA of the company. And you'd start like, 00:17:34.460 --> 00:17:38.079 if I were to start building agents or a team 00:17:38.079 --> 00:17:40.500 at a company were to start building agents and 00:17:40.500 --> 00:17:43.200 you were to start saying, this is how people 00:17:43.200 --> 00:17:45.920 are getting promoted or this is a way that is, 00:17:45.960 --> 00:17:49.259 this is a path towards promotion. It really does 00:17:49.259 --> 00:17:52.670 create, I don't know. It gives people something 00:17:52.670 --> 00:17:55.650 that they can tangibly do that's adding value 00:17:55.650 --> 00:17:58.410 to the business that they can go do and learn 00:17:58.410 --> 00:18:00.829 on their own. That isn't something they don't 00:18:00.829 --> 00:18:02.289 have to go take a class. Right. They don't have 00:18:02.289 --> 00:18:04.329 to go take a leadership course or they don't 00:18:04.329 --> 00:18:07.109 have to hope that that their boss is going to 00:18:07.109 --> 00:18:09.769 give them a promotion because they've hit some, 00:18:09.769 --> 00:18:16.329 you know, maybe they hit a goal that is. potentially 00:18:16.329 --> 00:18:19.130 tangible or intangible. It's like there are some 00:18:19.130 --> 00:18:22.289 real things that you're saying, these are value 00:18:22.289 --> 00:18:24.730 adds to the business and all of the people are 00:18:24.730 --> 00:18:26.410 going and doing it. And like you said, it creates 00:18:26.410 --> 00:18:28.630 this kind of organic movement of people adding 00:18:28.630 --> 00:18:30.990 value for each other and everybody's learning 00:18:30.990 --> 00:18:34.029 from it. It's not just like, oh, I did one thing 00:18:34.029 --> 00:18:36.170 that's creating a better process. Like everybody 00:18:36.170 --> 00:18:39.390 is learning how to be better at their jobs and 00:18:39.390 --> 00:18:40.849 then they'll be better at their jobs in their 00:18:40.849 --> 00:18:42.869 next job too, right? Because they're all learning 00:18:42.869 --> 00:18:47.119 how to. build a better plane, I guess, for lack 00:18:47.119 --> 00:18:50.420 of a better analogy. And we will learn a lot 00:18:50.420 --> 00:18:52.460 better by doing than by reading about it, you 00:18:52.460 --> 00:18:55.539 know, so it's a lot more actionable. Totally. 00:18:55.680 --> 00:18:58.799 I'm particularly, I would love to see all of 00:18:58.799 --> 00:19:01.039 the ways that you're using AI in your go -to 00:19:01.039 --> 00:19:02.940 -market. Can you share a couple examples? Like 00:19:02.940 --> 00:19:05.220 what are some interesting or like maybe some 00:19:05.220 --> 00:19:09.940 recent examples of automation that you've done 00:19:09.940 --> 00:19:13.700 in your go -to -market motions? So we have something 00:19:13.700 --> 00:19:16.660 unusual in that we push all our data from our 00:19:16.660 --> 00:19:18.640 sales force, from our marketing automation, and 00:19:18.640 --> 00:19:20.920 from our product all in one place. We use Noflake. 00:19:21.000 --> 00:19:23.700 And as a result, we can make a lot of inherences 00:19:23.700 --> 00:19:26.359 around what makes for a great customer, what 00:19:26.359 --> 00:19:28.059 makes for a great customer that sticks, what 00:19:28.059 --> 00:19:30.319 are the characteristics. And we always feed that 00:19:30.319 --> 00:19:32.759 back to the top of the funnel, to the accounts 00:19:32.759 --> 00:19:35.599 that we target. So there are a lot of data components 00:19:35.599 --> 00:19:38.079 that we gather with AI agents to make sure that 00:19:38.079 --> 00:19:42.210 the scoring is correct. It keeps evolving with 00:19:42.210 --> 00:19:44.250 the right kind of accounts. And right now, something 00:19:44.250 --> 00:19:49.210 that I'm working on is making sure that we have 00:19:49.210 --> 00:19:51.029 a lot of partners. So we work with a lot of agencies 00:19:51.029 --> 00:19:53.509 and we work with a lot of product partners as 00:19:53.509 --> 00:19:56.230 well. Whenever in our ecosystem there are new 00:19:56.230 --> 00:19:58.250 prospects or new customers, make sure that they 00:19:58.250 --> 00:20:00.809 are nurtured, like the right buyer in the right 00:20:00.809 --> 00:20:04.670 company is nurtured with them understanding how 00:20:04.670 --> 00:20:07.230 Chili Piper and Gong work together or Chili Piper 00:20:07.230 --> 00:20:10.140 and G2 work together. And that also happens with 00:20:10.140 --> 00:20:12.660 AI agents because we identify which persona could 00:20:12.660 --> 00:20:16.559 be best suited for a nurture campaign. And we 00:20:16.559 --> 00:20:19.759 automate the process like with evergreen automatic 00:20:19.759 --> 00:20:22.119 campaigns as well on that front. That's something 00:20:22.119 --> 00:20:25.059 that I'm working on myself right now. That's 00:20:25.059 --> 00:20:28.720 very cool. Yeah, I really want to see your notion. 00:20:28.940 --> 00:20:31.099 I'm particularly interested right now. It just 00:20:31.099 --> 00:20:34.819 feels like every day I see some new go -to -market 00:20:34.819 --> 00:20:38.950 use case that somebody's doing. CMO is coming 00:20:38.950 --> 00:20:43.369 up with an interesting way of automating a different 00:20:43.369 --> 00:20:46.589 part of go -to -market. And so I love that people 00:20:46.589 --> 00:20:48.630 are starting to create lists of this and I'm 00:20:48.630 --> 00:20:51.170 eager to start taking, I don't know, smart people 00:20:51.170 --> 00:20:53.710 classes because I'm not nearly as smart as other 00:20:53.710 --> 00:20:56.710 people that are figuring this out. We're all 00:20:56.710 --> 00:20:58.490 trying to figure it out, Becca. We're all trying 00:20:58.490 --> 00:21:00.569 to figure it out. But I actually think that's 00:21:00.569 --> 00:21:03.210 the beauty of right now is I see people online 00:21:03.210 --> 00:21:05.809 who are like... take my course. I'm an expert. 00:21:05.910 --> 00:21:08.210 And I'm like, you're a liar. Nobody's an expert 00:21:08.210 --> 00:21:12.029 right now. Literally nobody. And that's why it's 00:21:12.029 --> 00:21:15.369 so beautiful right now, because nobody knows 00:21:15.369 --> 00:21:18.210 what they're doing and everyone is just trying 00:21:18.210 --> 00:21:20.250 to figure it out. And in two years, we're going 00:21:20.250 --> 00:21:22.309 to look back and be like, wow, we had no idea 00:21:22.309 --> 00:21:25.009 what we were doing, but like the people who are 00:21:25.009 --> 00:21:26.569 playing with it right now are going to be the 00:21:26.569 --> 00:21:28.569 ones who are experts in five years, just because. 00:21:29.329 --> 00:21:31.450 tinkering right we're trying to figure it out 00:21:31.450 --> 00:21:34.430 we're like getting into the weeds and starting 00:21:34.430 --> 00:21:37.150 to learn how the pieces fit together and i don't 00:21:37.150 --> 00:21:40.910 know i think it's as a as a like i'm not nearly 00:21:40.910 --> 00:21:44.609 as big of like a tech nerd as you are but like 00:21:44.609 --> 00:21:47.849 i like getting into the like how does it work 00:21:47.849 --> 00:21:53.970 part of it not just into the put an input in 00:21:53.970 --> 00:21:57.490 get an input out piece of it because It helps 00:21:57.490 --> 00:22:00.710 me, I guess, with my process. So I love this 00:22:00.710 --> 00:22:06.369 space. So let me ask you, since I found you on 00:22:06.369 --> 00:22:09.069 LinkedIn, I will pivot there a little bit. How 00:22:09.069 --> 00:22:14.309 did you start LinkedIn -ing and building your 00:22:14.309 --> 00:22:17.390 LinkedIn presence? And was that just kind of 00:22:17.390 --> 00:22:20.210 an organic thing? Like you just like it? Or was 00:22:20.210 --> 00:22:24.990 that a business decision? Tell me about that. 00:22:26.879 --> 00:22:29.079 I very much like three years or four years ago, 00:22:29.140 --> 00:22:32.220 I was your typical tech founder that would avoid 00:22:32.220 --> 00:22:34.200 eye contact and would not want to be in front 00:22:34.200 --> 00:22:36.500 of press or in front of journalists or anything. 00:22:37.519 --> 00:22:39.720 Very much so. Very much so. I was terrified of 00:22:39.720 --> 00:22:41.880 any kind of being on stages or anything like 00:22:41.880 --> 00:22:45.500 that. First, I felt like my English was awkward. 00:22:45.640 --> 00:22:48.319 Second, I felt like the words that I was using 00:22:48.319 --> 00:22:51.740 were limited. I just didn't feel like I had anything 00:22:51.740 --> 00:22:54.779 to say, really. So as a result, I was just terrified 00:22:54.779 --> 00:22:58.329 of social media. Until I decided that I'm just 00:22:58.329 --> 00:23:01.029 going to force myself. I'm going to force myself 00:23:01.029 --> 00:23:03.990 and just feel comfortable with pressing the publish 00:23:03.990 --> 00:23:08.269 button until just that felt less terrifying. 00:23:08.869 --> 00:23:12.849 And I learned a lot more by just posting every 00:23:12.849 --> 00:23:14.869 day and feeling uncomfortable than I did from 00:23:14.869 --> 00:23:17.410 reading any other books on communication on social 00:23:17.410 --> 00:23:30.279 media. The courage, but it took about 12 months 00:23:30.279 --> 00:23:34.140 or so. Everyday posting. I feel like I want to 00:23:34.140 --> 00:23:36.400 just like clip that clip right there because 00:23:36.400 --> 00:23:39.200 that is like the perfect, like, I don't know, 00:23:39.220 --> 00:23:42.799 30, 60 seconds of everyone I ever try to convince 00:23:42.799 --> 00:23:45.440 to start posting on LinkedIn. They give me the 00:23:45.440 --> 00:23:48.220 whole like, yeah, but like, you're still comfortable 00:23:48.220 --> 00:23:50.619 writing or showing up on camera or whatever. 00:23:50.700 --> 00:23:54.420 And I'm like, no. No, like I was I'm a I'm a 00:23:54.420 --> 00:23:56.700 comms lady. I'm a behind the scenes comms lady. 00:23:56.759 --> 00:23:58.460 Like I don't like being on camera. I don't like 00:23:58.460 --> 00:24:00.779 doing podcasts like I don't I never liked doing 00:24:00.779 --> 00:24:03.640 this stuff. I think LinkedIn is cringy, too, 00:24:03.720 --> 00:24:06.519 or I used to think it is cringy. But like your 00:24:06.519 --> 00:24:09.440 point, you just have to start right. Like there 00:24:09.440 --> 00:24:11.819 is a reason to do it. We all know that there 00:24:11.819 --> 00:24:15.680 is a benefit being out there and doing it. So 00:24:15.680 --> 00:24:19.420 once you start doing it, it becomes a little 00:24:19.420 --> 00:24:21.059 bit easier. and it becomes a little bit easier 00:24:21.059 --> 00:24:25.460 and you get positive back in like right people 00:24:25.460 --> 00:24:28.299 start to reflect back to you that there is um 00:24:28.299 --> 00:24:32.180 there is people are getting something out of 00:24:32.180 --> 00:24:34.200 it when you are putting something out there and 00:24:34.200 --> 00:24:37.619 when you start to hear from them oh i'm getting 00:24:37.619 --> 00:24:39.700 value out of what you're putting out there that's 00:24:39.700 --> 00:24:42.539 giving you the courage to do more of that and 00:24:42.539 --> 00:24:44.299 then you start to realize i don't have to be 00:24:44.299 --> 00:24:46.960 some polished perfect whatever they like the 00:24:47.690 --> 00:24:51.950 flawed version or they like the you know I have 00:24:51.950 --> 00:24:54.509 I am they like the immigrant story right or they 00:24:54.509 --> 00:24:57.049 like the tech founder story or they like whatever 00:24:57.049 --> 00:25:00.069 version of you you were worried to share in the 00:25:00.069 --> 00:25:02.829 first place and I just think that people need 00:25:02.829 --> 00:25:06.250 to get past the worry about cringe and just start 00:25:06.250 --> 00:25:09.109 doing it because after 12 months there you are 00:25:09.109 --> 00:25:13.359 suddenly you are you are full of courage and 00:25:13.359 --> 00:25:16.119 full of new communication skills and poised in 00:25:16.119 --> 00:25:18.099 a way that you never thought you would be. And 00:25:18.099 --> 00:25:20.700 I never would have guessed that you were not 00:25:20.700 --> 00:25:23.039 comfortable doing this because you seem like 00:25:23.039 --> 00:25:27.019 such a natural and like a content creator at 00:25:27.019 --> 00:25:29.779 heart online to me. I thought you were like all 00:25:29.779 --> 00:25:35.190 in on all of that. Seriously. No, no, no. Just 00:25:35.190 --> 00:25:38.650 posting every day was the best writing course. 00:25:38.829 --> 00:25:41.230 And right now I do find joy in it. Right now 00:25:41.230 --> 00:25:45.069 I actually enjoy it. But I was completely terrified 00:25:45.069 --> 00:25:49.390 and now it's more automatic. One thing that helped 00:25:49.390 --> 00:25:53.089 me a lot at the beginning was, and I don't know 00:25:53.089 --> 00:25:55.869 how I came up with it. I don't think I read it 00:25:55.869 --> 00:25:59.869 anywhere. I came up with it and it helped me 00:25:59.869 --> 00:26:02.369 a lot, was to imagine myself a few years back. 00:26:02.839 --> 00:26:06.180 and just write to myself. And I knew myself pretty 00:26:06.180 --> 00:26:08.380 well. And I would know that I don't like to read 00:26:08.380 --> 00:26:12.900 fluffy things, egocentric things, more things 00:26:12.900 --> 00:26:15.599 that would have been helpful to me in that stage 00:26:15.599 --> 00:26:18.539 of my life. And that made it a lot easier. I 00:26:18.539 --> 00:26:21.539 felt like I was writing letters to myself. That 00:26:21.539 --> 00:26:24.839 is such good advice. And I also tell people like 00:26:24.839 --> 00:26:27.220 when I write, pick one person to write to, like 00:26:27.220 --> 00:26:28.839 you said, like you're writing to your former 00:26:28.839 --> 00:26:31.500 self. I would write to somebody on my team, right? 00:26:31.599 --> 00:26:34.440 Like if I'm writing to somebody who needs advice 00:26:34.440 --> 00:26:37.819 from a leader, there you go. That's a person, 00:26:37.900 --> 00:26:42.000 not to the entire world. Do you write all of 00:26:42.000 --> 00:26:45.460 your own content? Yes, I've never had anybody 00:26:45.460 --> 00:26:48.759 editing or help me with content. I don't know 00:26:48.759 --> 00:26:51.519 if it was a good idea or not. No, it's totally 00:26:51.519 --> 00:26:53.539 authentic. That's why, I mean, that's why it 00:26:53.539 --> 00:26:57.089 works, really, truly. But, you know, I always 00:26:57.089 --> 00:26:59.829 ask CEOs, I've spent my career writing content 00:26:59.829 --> 00:27:03.529 for CEOs. So I'm always curious when CEOs do 00:27:03.529 --> 00:27:06.430 their own content. I think it's such an interesting, 00:27:06.670 --> 00:27:10.690 you know, it takes time, right? Content is a 00:27:10.690 --> 00:27:14.890 labor of love. Do you use AI to create content? 00:27:16.069 --> 00:27:19.849 So here's my process is very, very strange. Every 00:27:19.849 --> 00:27:23.309 evening when I put my kids to sleep around eight 00:27:23.309 --> 00:27:25.559 o 'clock. I sometimes fall asleep with them and 00:27:25.559 --> 00:27:28.740 I don't have any content. Or if I don't fall 00:27:28.740 --> 00:27:31.420 asleep, then I just think about something that 00:27:31.420 --> 00:27:33.599 has happened in that day and write it in my Apple 00:27:33.599 --> 00:27:37.539 Notes. And then in the morning, I reread because 00:27:37.539 --> 00:27:39.940 I have like an ongoing set of notes, which one 00:27:39.940 --> 00:27:42.740 feels more alive in me that particular morning. 00:27:43.240 --> 00:27:46.460 And I just take my notes and I post it. Your 00:27:46.460 --> 00:27:50.500 process is almost exactly the same as mine. Almost 00:27:50.500 --> 00:27:52.980 exactly the same. I have an ongoing Apple note 00:27:52.980 --> 00:27:55.579 that is just like full of random ideas. I call 00:27:55.579 --> 00:27:57.799 them my shower thoughts because it's like they 00:27:57.799 --> 00:27:59.980 come at the most inopportune times when I can't 00:27:59.980 --> 00:28:02.039 write a whole post. So I'll just like throw some 00:28:02.039 --> 00:28:04.920 of my thoughts in there and then I'll go scroll 00:28:04.920 --> 00:28:07.559 through them and be like, which one can I build 00:28:07.559 --> 00:28:10.000 out the rest of the ideas around right now? And 00:28:10.000 --> 00:28:12.839 then I'll post it. So that's funny. I love that. 00:28:12.980 --> 00:28:16.359 How old are your kids? They're six and four. 00:28:17.209 --> 00:28:20.589 Okay. Yeah. I have a 10 and eight year old, so 00:28:20.589 --> 00:28:22.950 I'm just ahead of you, but six and four, you're 00:28:22.950 --> 00:28:26.869 still in the, in the young, young era. Fun. I 00:28:26.869 --> 00:28:30.369 don't know how you do it as a, as a CEO. I'm 00:28:30.369 --> 00:28:33.470 hanging on. I don't know either. It's just chaos 00:28:33.470 --> 00:28:36.829 at all times. That's how, that's how you, it's 00:28:36.829 --> 00:28:41.349 just chaos at all times, all the time. Well, 00:28:41.369 --> 00:28:43.609 OK, so that actually brings me to another question. 00:28:43.670 --> 00:28:47.410 Like as a founder and your husband, also a founder 00:28:47.410 --> 00:28:51.589 and CEO, co -CEO, is there ever like moments 00:28:51.589 --> 00:28:54.269 where you're just like, this isn't going to work? 00:28:54.329 --> 00:28:57.670 Like what are we like? We can't do this. You 00:28:57.670 --> 00:28:59.670 know, like what have we gotten ourselves into? 00:28:59.789 --> 00:29:03.390 Do you ever feel like that? In my case, it's 00:29:03.390 --> 00:29:06.349 a little bit different because unlike other, 00:29:06.470 --> 00:29:09.670 I think that I talked to a lot of founders and. 00:29:10.240 --> 00:29:12.099 In our case, because we had a beautiful exit 00:29:12.099 --> 00:29:14.539 cash -wise, I don't feel like the pressure of 00:29:14.539 --> 00:29:20.619 finances or anything like that. And I just focus 00:29:20.619 --> 00:29:25.500 on the joy of building. And he loves it a lot 00:29:25.500 --> 00:29:27.680 as well. We can't imagine doing anything else. 00:29:27.720 --> 00:29:29.460 So I think I'm going to do this until I'm 150 00:29:29.460 --> 00:29:34.579 years old, which I know sounds weird, but I really, 00:29:34.640 --> 00:29:38.779 really like it. um that is the that's the dream 00:29:38.779 --> 00:29:41.180 right is like finding the thing that you love 00:29:41.180 --> 00:29:44.539 to do so much that you just want to do it forever 00:29:44.539 --> 00:29:48.339 that it doesn't sound weird that sounds ideal 00:29:48.339 --> 00:29:52.500 so good on you congratulations for finding that 00:29:52.500 --> 00:29:55.359 thing in life i'm happy i found what brings me 00:29:55.359 --> 00:29:59.160 the joy for real though especially especially 00:29:59.160 --> 00:30:03.039 when you are grinding in it but you still love 00:30:03.039 --> 00:30:05.440 it right like I think that's when you know that 00:30:05.440 --> 00:30:08.180 you found the thing that you love is when you 00:30:08.180 --> 00:30:13.119 can when you have to grind sometimes to the point 00:30:13.119 --> 00:30:15.819 that you're like exhausted and are giving up 00:30:15.819 --> 00:30:17.880 things in your life that you also love but you're 00:30:17.880 --> 00:30:20.640 still doing it because you love to do it that's 00:30:20.640 --> 00:30:24.160 and that's the joy I do I do want to caution 00:30:24.160 --> 00:30:29.950 because I don't want to sound like not in touch 00:30:29.950 --> 00:30:32.289 with reality. It's hard. Like I have roller coasters 00:30:32.289 --> 00:30:34.390 every day and they're like hard things happening 00:30:34.390 --> 00:30:37.970 every day that take me down and make me doubt 00:30:37.970 --> 00:30:41.569 on my capacity to handle it all. But even when 00:30:41.569 --> 00:30:44.109 those hard moments come, I just know that it's 00:30:44.109 --> 00:30:45.829 a signal that I'm learning something new and 00:30:45.829 --> 00:30:47.470 it's a painful moment, but I'm learning something. 00:30:47.589 --> 00:30:50.309 So I approach it with curiosity. It is a roller 00:30:50.309 --> 00:30:55.049 coaster with emotional ups and downs. But I still 00:30:55.049 --> 00:30:58.039 lean in with curiosity even when it's hard. Well, 00:30:58.079 --> 00:30:59.759 yeah. And it's worth it for you. Right. Because 00:30:59.759 --> 00:31:02.420 like, like you said, like it brings you joy and 00:31:02.420 --> 00:31:05.140 it's fulfilling. So again, it's like at the end 00:31:05.140 --> 00:31:11.500 of the day, that's what matters. So what is the 00:31:11.500 --> 00:31:14.680 future of Chili Piper? You know, if you had your 00:31:14.680 --> 00:31:17.940 magic eight ball, like what's the, what's the 00:31:17.940 --> 00:31:22.269 next five years? So as I was telling you, for 00:31:22.269 --> 00:31:25.869 me, it's one big experiment. I wonder if we can 00:31:25.869 --> 00:31:28.589 make this company work where everybody's thriving 00:31:28.589 --> 00:31:30.670 and everybody has as much fun as me and my co 00:31:30.670 --> 00:31:34.630 -founder in it. And we try to get the employees 00:31:34.630 --> 00:31:37.829 that find that where they love working remote 00:31:37.829 --> 00:31:40.089 on hard problems and it's their passion that 00:31:40.089 --> 00:31:42.509 they're working on and that they're growing and 00:31:42.509 --> 00:31:46.789 thriving. That's like my main priority. And then, 00:31:46.809 --> 00:31:50.880 of course, on the revenue front, we want to in 00:31:50.880 --> 00:31:53.440 five years, probably like 400 million in AR or 00:31:53.440 --> 00:31:57.940 so and employ as many happy employees as we can 00:31:57.940 --> 00:32:00.319 doing cool things in the agent orchestration 00:32:00.319 --> 00:32:03.160 space. Right now we're focusing on marketing 00:32:03.160 --> 00:32:05.559 and it's a lot of fun. That's so cool. Well, 00:32:05.619 --> 00:32:07.960 okay. So this is a communications podcast and 00:32:07.960 --> 00:32:10.319 what you're doing internally with your culture, 00:32:10.359 --> 00:32:13.180 this experiment that you talk about is like an 00:32:13.180 --> 00:32:16.500 internal communications case study in the making. 00:32:16.579 --> 00:32:19.539 Like this is an amazing thing that you're doing. 00:32:20.000 --> 00:32:22.480 So my first question is, do you have an internal 00:32:22.480 --> 00:32:25.339 communications person at your company who is 00:32:25.339 --> 00:32:30.859 helping you manage all of this or who is doing 00:32:30.859 --> 00:32:32.900 internal communications? Does that come from 00:32:32.900 --> 00:32:37.079 you? It's very funny, but I have a notion doc. 00:32:38.059 --> 00:32:40.500 The notion doc is your internal communications 00:32:40.500 --> 00:32:45.319 person. No, I have a notion doc that explains 00:32:45.319 --> 00:32:47.980 how we do this kind of stuff as well, because 00:32:47.980 --> 00:32:50.180 our culture is very unusual. We're very flat. 00:32:50.339 --> 00:32:52.740 So there's no need for an executive to communicate 00:32:52.740 --> 00:32:55.240 something because we're all kind of working together. 00:32:55.759 --> 00:33:00.839 And we kind of, our roles are quite fluid as 00:33:00.839 --> 00:33:03.880 well. So our alignment is fluid. And I wrote 00:33:03.880 --> 00:33:06.579 about it in a culture doc, in an ocean culture 00:33:06.579 --> 00:33:10.000 doc on how we kind of make it work because it's 00:33:10.000 --> 00:33:14.660 kind of, it's unusual. We spend tons of training, 00:33:14.859 --> 00:33:18.410 tons of time on training because of... on communication 00:33:18.410 --> 00:33:22.250 specifically, because we believe that, very much 00:33:22.250 --> 00:33:25.549 so, we believe that the reasons why companies 00:33:25.549 --> 00:33:28.509 break is because of lack of communication and 00:33:28.509 --> 00:33:32.369 also because there's conflict. And when conflict 00:33:32.369 --> 00:33:35.049 is uncomfortable, most people choose not to go 00:33:35.049 --> 00:33:38.450 and have a different opinion or butt heads. And 00:33:38.450 --> 00:33:41.490 we kind of eliminated that because we do the 00:33:41.490 --> 00:33:43.109 decision memos, but there are still people that 00:33:43.109 --> 00:33:46.240 have a very strong... opposing voice and you 00:33:46.240 --> 00:33:49.059 still want to make sure that they feel heard 00:33:49.059 --> 00:33:50.759 and that everybody's understood and everybody 00:33:50.759 --> 00:33:52.440 kind of understand the different points of view. 00:33:52.599 --> 00:33:55.259 So we do tons of training on it, tons of it. 00:33:55.680 --> 00:34:00.680 What does that training look like? It is based 00:34:00.680 --> 00:34:04.079 off of a book. So you've probably heard of it. 00:34:04.119 --> 00:34:06.960 Marshall Rosenberg wrote a book that's called 00:34:06.960 --> 00:34:09.869 Nonviolent Communication. It's one of the best 00:34:09.869 --> 00:34:13.469 selling. And he left behind him a nonprofit that 00:34:13.469 --> 00:34:16.210 also helps with nonviolent communication. Not 00:34:16.210 --> 00:34:19.269 that we're all violent in our words, but more 00:34:19.269 --> 00:34:23.030 helping with conflict of opinion, difference 00:34:23.030 --> 00:34:27.690 of opinions. And we have their coaches that are 00:34:27.690 --> 00:34:30.250 part of that foundation kind of coming with us 00:34:30.250 --> 00:34:32.409 and helping us with the systems, helping us with 00:34:32.409 --> 00:34:35.090 the groups. Even though we're remote, we do these 00:34:35.090 --> 00:34:37.489 trainings in person. We find that it's a lot 00:34:37.489 --> 00:34:39.250 more productive and quarterly we get together 00:34:39.250 --> 00:34:42.789 and train our team on trust building, on connection, 00:34:43.050 --> 00:34:46.030 conflict management and all of those things. 00:34:46.590 --> 00:34:49.150 I love this. I mean, I really do. You know, I've 00:34:49.150 --> 00:34:51.829 talked to a lot of companies and I've seen a 00:34:51.829 --> 00:34:55.110 lot of cultures and I've seen I could not agree 00:34:55.110 --> 00:34:57.650 with you more that the breakdown of culture comes 00:34:57.650 --> 00:35:00.809 from communication breakdown, lack of trust, 00:35:01.070 --> 00:35:04.269 lack of lack of psychological safety, lack of 00:35:04.269 --> 00:35:07.739 empowerment. And you are. Head on addressing 00:35:07.739 --> 00:35:12.340 those specific issues before people even get 00:35:12.340 --> 00:35:14.780 into their roles. You are literally like, hi, 00:35:15.039 --> 00:35:17.679 day one. Welcome to the company. We're going 00:35:17.679 --> 00:35:20.519 to train you on how to mitigate these problems. 00:35:20.760 --> 00:35:23.780 Oh, and also we're going to empower you with 00:35:23.780 --> 00:35:26.960 this decision making process that we have. Oh, 00:35:27.039 --> 00:35:29.159 and by the way, we're a flat organization. So 00:35:29.159 --> 00:35:32.639 your opinion matters. And, you know, if you need 00:35:32.639 --> 00:35:34.619 to. you know, talk to the people you need to 00:35:34.619 --> 00:35:36.559 talk to, you're able to talk to them like this 00:35:36.559 --> 00:35:41.059 is a it's an important, I think, experiment that 00:35:41.059 --> 00:35:44.559 you're running. And frankly, I think I would 00:35:44.559 --> 00:35:47.219 be very interested to see the results in a couple 00:35:47.219 --> 00:35:50.039 of years to see, you know, as you scale, as you 00:35:50.039 --> 00:35:53.280 become a 500 person company, thousand person 00:35:53.280 --> 00:35:58.449 company, 5000 person company. um how these processes 00:35:58.449 --> 00:36:02.449 start to you know how they stretch how they start 00:36:02.449 --> 00:36:06.369 to change or evolve as more people come into 00:36:06.369 --> 00:36:09.869 the mix do you think you know does that scare 00:36:09.869 --> 00:36:12.849 you does that excite you like what what do you 00:36:12.849 --> 00:36:18.869 think about that the scaling question is a very 00:36:18.869 --> 00:36:21.809 one that's on my mind a lot because i'm building 00:36:21.809 --> 00:36:24.630 out of agents and i just don't know what they're 00:36:25.389 --> 00:36:30.869 like how far the AI agents can go on what a human 00:36:30.869 --> 00:36:36.989 can do. And I actually wrote, I did, I was invited 00:36:36.989 --> 00:36:40.510 at Oracle two days ago to do a speech around 00:36:40.510 --> 00:36:43.309 AI agents in the org chart because mid -journey 00:36:43.309 --> 00:36:46.010 is at 300 million with 60 employees. Cursor has 00:36:46.010 --> 00:36:48.389 30 employees and they're also, I don't know, 00:36:48.409 --> 00:36:51.869 like 60 million now in AR. And like companies 00:36:51.869 --> 00:36:56.099 need less and less headcount. And on one side, 00:36:56.219 --> 00:36:58.699 that's terrifying because what does that even 00:36:58.699 --> 00:37:01.940 look like? Like where are humans kind of playing 00:37:01.940 --> 00:37:04.800 in that ecosystem? On the other side, I think 00:37:04.800 --> 00:37:08.199 there are a lot of exciting outcomes from it. 00:37:08.260 --> 00:37:11.099 I think that the companies will get smaller, 00:37:11.219 --> 00:37:13.219 but we will have more companies in the ecosystem. 00:37:13.400 --> 00:37:15.559 So I think that a lot more people will start 00:37:15.559 --> 00:37:17.840 their own companies. They will not have to be 00:37:17.840 --> 00:37:20.809 bogged down with like... overhead with having 00:37:20.809 --> 00:37:22.949 100 people to work for them and they will just 00:37:22.949 --> 00:37:26.530 like administer the orchestration of agents and 00:37:26.530 --> 00:37:30.289 so forth. It's just so hard to predict what the 00:37:30.289 --> 00:37:32.429 world is going to look like with this kind of 00:37:32.429 --> 00:37:35.690 new structure in place. And I think a lot about 00:37:35.690 --> 00:37:39.809 how I would very much not want to be like a 22 00:37:39.809 --> 00:37:42.090 year old straight out of college right now, because 00:37:42.090 --> 00:37:46.420 like. On the one hand, yeah, it's exciting. Everything's 00:37:46.420 --> 00:37:48.239 new and you have an opportunity to kind of shape 00:37:48.239 --> 00:37:52.820 the next trend. But at the, on the other hand, 00:37:52.880 --> 00:37:56.320 it's like, how do you even decide what to do 00:37:56.320 --> 00:37:59.199 knowing that all of the skills that you've just 00:37:59.199 --> 00:38:01.940 acquired over the last four years might be completely 00:38:01.940 --> 00:38:04.199 meaningless in two years? I don't know. It's 00:38:04.199 --> 00:38:07.539 such a weird, weird place to be in the world 00:38:07.539 --> 00:38:09.400 right now. Like at least with us, like we have 00:38:09.400 --> 00:38:13.960 years of experience, work experience that. matters 00:38:13.960 --> 00:38:16.639 right like the experience counts for something 00:38:16.639 --> 00:38:18.699 new grads are like they don't have experience 00:38:18.699 --> 00:38:22.519 and the future I don't know it's such a weird 00:38:22.519 --> 00:38:24.440 such a weird time like you said we can't predict 00:38:24.440 --> 00:38:27.420 what's coming and I don't even know it's it's 00:38:27.420 --> 00:38:29.719 definitely it's definitely on my mind for my 00:38:29.719 --> 00:38:33.440 kiddos to prepare them for real life and it's 00:38:33.440 --> 00:38:36.840 it's hard to pick the type of things we put emphasis 00:38:36.840 --> 00:38:41.329 on but I still get back to teaching them how 00:38:41.329 --> 00:38:45.750 to build trust and how to learn to create their 00:38:45.750 --> 00:38:49.989 own compass of wisdom that allows them to kind 00:38:49.989 --> 00:38:52.369 of pivot and adapt. Because the only thing that's 00:38:52.369 --> 00:38:54.150 certain is that everything will be uncertain 00:38:54.150 --> 00:38:57.610 ahead of them. Totally. I've decided that the 00:38:57.610 --> 00:39:00.170 only thing that matters is being a good person 00:39:00.170 --> 00:39:03.050 and being adaptable. So those are the things 00:39:03.050 --> 00:39:07.869 in life that we can control, right? Okay, well, 00:39:07.949 --> 00:39:09.909 I'm going to go to our rapid fire questions since 00:39:09.909 --> 00:39:12.829 we're getting close to time. So let me pull these 00:39:12.829 --> 00:39:19.670 up. Okay. All right. So first rapid fire question. 00:39:20.289 --> 00:39:23.909 What is a myth or misconception about marketing 00:39:23.909 --> 00:39:28.150 or communications that drives you crazy? Well, 00:39:28.170 --> 00:39:30.750 when I started working in large corporations, 00:39:31.070 --> 00:39:32.969 I thought that I would only get good at communication 00:39:32.969 --> 00:39:36.710 if I read a lot of books on it. and I learned 00:39:36.710 --> 00:39:39.250 to use fancy words. Turns out the opposite was 00:39:39.250 --> 00:39:41.230 true. I don't need to use any fancy words, and 00:39:41.230 --> 00:39:44.070 all I have to do is keep practicing. So, yeah. 00:39:44.190 --> 00:39:47.590 Very true. I actually think people who use fancy 00:39:47.590 --> 00:39:49.989 words tend to sound like they're just trying 00:39:49.989 --> 00:39:52.710 to overcompensate for not really being great 00:39:52.710 --> 00:39:55.070 communicators. So, yeah, that's funny. Not saying 00:39:55.070 --> 00:39:58.889 much, yeah. Yeah. Okay, you get to erase one 00:39:58.889 --> 00:40:02.969 corporate buzzword from existence. What is it? 00:40:04.780 --> 00:40:07.199 So it's not a word, but it's a structure that 00:40:07.199 --> 00:40:10.159 I see a lot and I hate it, hate it. And it says, 00:40:10.280 --> 00:40:12.659 in today's fast -paced world, that's something 00:40:12.659 --> 00:40:15.760 that I hate. Well, it's the AI speak, right? 00:40:15.880 --> 00:40:18.460 It's like the beginning of every AI sentence. 00:40:18.860 --> 00:40:22.380 In today's blah, blah, blah. In today's evolving 00:40:22.380 --> 00:40:25.280 blah, blah. Yeah, totally agree. And every time 00:40:25.280 --> 00:40:28.519 I see it now, I'll just immediately ignore whatever 00:40:28.519 --> 00:40:32.780 comes after it. Dismiss it. Totally. Okay. You're 00:40:32.780 --> 00:40:35.500 about to give a presentation in front of 50 ,000 00:40:35.500 --> 00:40:37.880 people, and maybe you've actually done this before. 00:40:38.000 --> 00:40:42.659 What is your walkout song? They never ask me 00:40:42.659 --> 00:40:46.619 what walkout song I want. I do speak a lot, but 00:40:46.619 --> 00:40:49.500 I would love to have the, she's got it, baby, 00:40:49.719 --> 00:40:54.300 she's got it. Oh, that's a good one. I'm your 00:40:54.300 --> 00:40:58.280 Venus. Yeah, that one. Yeah, that's the one. 00:40:58.769 --> 00:41:01.269 Nice. I like that one. And they don't ask you 00:41:01.269 --> 00:41:04.389 what song you want? They don't put the song. 00:41:04.489 --> 00:41:06.429 I don't know why. And I've spoke so many times 00:41:06.429 --> 00:41:09.590 and I never get the song. Well, if you're ever 00:41:09.590 --> 00:41:12.389 at one of my conferences, you can pick your walkout 00:41:12.389 --> 00:41:14.670 song. There you go. And you can pick your walk 00:41:14.670 --> 00:41:17.449 off song too. So really you could have two songs. 00:41:20.329 --> 00:41:25.539 Okay. Speaking of speaking. If you had to do 00:41:25.539 --> 00:41:28.800 a TED Talk on anything but marketing or communications, 00:41:29.280 --> 00:41:33.440 what would your topic be? Well, I think I'm going 00:41:33.440 --> 00:41:36.300 to do a TED Talk soon. And my topic for sure, 00:41:36.300 --> 00:41:39.619 it would be around rebranding happiness. How 00:41:39.619 --> 00:41:42.420 a mom who built a billion dollar company hacks 00:41:42.420 --> 00:41:46.679 joy at scale. Talk a little bit more about that. 00:41:46.739 --> 00:41:52.610 I want to hear more. So I'm writing now my biography 00:41:52.610 --> 00:41:57.349 and my book and that's kind of been my theme 00:41:57.349 --> 00:41:59.750 throughout is how to find joy in everything that 00:41:59.750 --> 00:42:03.349 I do and in the worst possible circumstances. 00:42:03.489 --> 00:42:08.550 I've had a super weird upbringing and how that 00:42:08.550 --> 00:42:12.789 lift me up from what I was told that I can do 00:42:12.789 --> 00:42:16.409 or can't do. So it's a topic that's dear to my 00:42:16.409 --> 00:42:20.409 heart. Okay. Nobody tells you that a woman with 00:42:20.409 --> 00:42:23.230 two kids can run a company, a tech company, and 00:42:23.230 --> 00:42:26.070 nobody tells you that a kid that had nothing 00:42:26.070 --> 00:42:29.889 to eat as a child can come to us and do all these 00:42:29.889 --> 00:42:32.630 crazy things. So I just don't believe in limitations. 00:42:32.789 --> 00:42:38.150 I believe in finding joy. So what's one tip you 00:42:38.150 --> 00:42:44.230 would give to somebody to help them find joy 00:42:44.230 --> 00:42:49.670 in everyday moments? It's complicated because 00:42:49.670 --> 00:42:51.409 I'm writing an entire book around it. But if 00:42:51.409 --> 00:42:55.230 I were just to sum it up to one thing, it would 00:42:55.230 --> 00:42:59.710 be to find self -compassion. A lot more self 00:42:59.710 --> 00:43:03.010 -love and self -compassion. I could not agree 00:43:03.010 --> 00:43:05.670 more. I always talk about how like my biggest 00:43:05.670 --> 00:43:09.429 gift to myself was giving myself more grace to 00:43:09.429 --> 00:43:14.130 just like. be, right? Like we are humans and 00:43:14.130 --> 00:43:17.650 self -compassion is such an important part of 00:43:17.650 --> 00:43:20.230 who we are. If we don't have compassion for ourselves, 00:43:20.469 --> 00:43:22.250 why would we expect other people to have compassion 00:43:22.250 --> 00:43:26.789 for us? So I love that. And I can't wait to read 00:43:26.789 --> 00:43:29.550 your biography. So what's the timing on that? 00:43:29.650 --> 00:43:32.849 When are you planning to finish writing it? I 00:43:32.849 --> 00:43:36.090 wrote it, but I'm just afraid to publish it. 00:43:36.170 --> 00:43:38.570 And I think that my fear on publishing comes 00:43:38.570 --> 00:43:41.449 from the fact that I've never written a book 00:43:41.449 --> 00:43:42.909 I've never written anything I've only started 00:43:42.909 --> 00:43:46.590 writing two years ago and I wonder if I let it 00:43:46.590 --> 00:43:48.730 maturate for one more year can I make it better 00:43:48.730 --> 00:43:52.550 so that's I would be happy to read a draft if 00:43:52.550 --> 00:43:55.690 you want somebody to give you an opinion seriously 00:43:55.690 --> 00:44:00.369 you don't have to insist I would love to but 00:44:00.369 --> 00:44:03.070 if you want an unfiltered opinion I have no filter 00:44:03.070 --> 00:44:05.030 and I would be happy to share my thoughts so 00:44:05.449 --> 00:44:07.389 Just putting that out there. That's the best 00:44:07.389 --> 00:44:09.409 type of communication. The one where you don't 00:44:09.409 --> 00:44:12.510 hold anything back. I do not have the ability 00:44:12.510 --> 00:44:14.829 to hold things back. Unfortunately, that is both 00:44:14.829 --> 00:44:19.289 a flaw and a good thing about me, I guess. I 00:44:19.289 --> 00:44:21.849 don't know what that looks like. I have the same 00:44:21.849 --> 00:44:25.039 problem, so I know. My mom used to joke that 00:44:25.039 --> 00:44:26.880 like if you wanted to find out, you know, if 00:44:26.880 --> 00:44:28.920 the neighbors have something going on, it's like 00:44:28.920 --> 00:44:30.840 just send Becca in. She'll find out all of the 00:44:30.840 --> 00:44:33.059 information because I have no filter and I will 00:44:33.059 --> 00:44:35.619 ask all of the inappropriate questions. But, 00:44:35.719 --> 00:44:40.139 you know, it's a good thing. OK, two more questions. 00:44:40.739 --> 00:44:43.760 You get to use one emoji for the rest of your 00:44:43.760 --> 00:44:49.039 life. Which one? It's the thinking one. That's 00:44:49.039 --> 00:44:50.960 what I use all the time because I'm always in 00:44:50.960 --> 00:44:55.050 deep thought. Yeah. I feel like there's two thinking 00:44:55.050 --> 00:44:56.750 ones. There's that one and then there's like 00:44:56.750 --> 00:44:59.469 the monocle. No, there's like a... The monocle. 00:44:59.469 --> 00:45:02.230 The monocle one. It's the monocle. Okay. Yep. 00:45:02.329 --> 00:45:04.349 I like the thinking. I like the thinking one. 00:45:04.409 --> 00:45:07.269 I use that one frequently. Okay. But I think 00:45:07.269 --> 00:45:09.010 we can't use emojis anymore because then people 00:45:09.010 --> 00:45:10.730 will think that we wrote it with AI. So I don't 00:45:10.730 --> 00:45:12.969 think we can use emojis. I use them all the time. 00:45:13.409 --> 00:45:17.269 And em dashes and Oxford commas. Everyone be 00:45:17.269 --> 00:45:22.510 damned. I refuse to let AI ruin my writing. AI 00:45:22.510 --> 00:45:25.130 has stolen my writing style, not the other way 00:45:25.130 --> 00:45:28.329 around. I think that's the case, yeah. That is 00:45:28.329 --> 00:45:31.070 totally the case. I take offense by everybody 00:45:31.070 --> 00:45:34.389 mocking the AI. Actually, I wrote about this 00:45:34.389 --> 00:45:36.650 today. What it really comes down to is people 00:45:36.650 --> 00:45:40.369 who have pattern recognition can recognize AI 00:45:40.369 --> 00:45:42.829 writing because of the patterns. It's not the 00:45:42.829 --> 00:45:46.650 em dashes or the emojis. It's the cadence of 00:45:46.650 --> 00:45:50.099 the writing. It's the cadence. People who don't 00:45:50.099 --> 00:45:52.460 recognize patterns in the same way need to have 00:45:52.460 --> 00:45:54.659 the tells, right? They need to know it's the 00:45:54.659 --> 00:45:58.199 em dashes. It's the emojis. It's the commas. 00:45:58.199 --> 00:46:01.400 But really, it's not those things. It's the cadence 00:46:01.400 --> 00:46:04.360 and the pattern. The whole thing, yeah. Wax on 00:46:04.360 --> 00:46:06.780 about this all day, but I will not. I will ask 00:46:06.780 --> 00:46:09.679 you Perry's unhinged question in the absence 00:46:09.679 --> 00:46:12.480 of Perry, because this is the question that we 00:46:12.480 --> 00:46:14.639 ask everybody at the end of our show. But I will 00:46:14.639 --> 00:46:17.159 caveat this with this Perry's unhinged question, 00:46:17.300 --> 00:46:23.340 which is. You can either have hiccups 24 -7 for 00:46:23.340 --> 00:46:25.460 three months. So while you're sleeping, while 00:46:25.460 --> 00:46:28.820 you're eating, while you're trying to work, hiccuping 00:46:28.820 --> 00:46:33.219 nonstop. Or you can chop off your own pinky. 00:46:33.320 --> 00:46:40.500 Either pinky, your choice. So the hiccuping is 00:46:40.500 --> 00:46:44.599 super pleasant. But it goes away. And it kind 00:46:44.599 --> 00:46:46.519 of reminds me from when I was pregnant and I 00:46:46.519 --> 00:46:48.280 was always awake at all times because I felt 00:46:48.280 --> 00:46:50.119 like all sorts of things were happening inside 00:46:50.119 --> 00:46:52.840 of my body. So I lived through it. I know I can 00:46:52.840 --> 00:46:56.679 do it. It depends. Then I keep my fingers. Perry 00:46:56.679 --> 00:46:58.760 would be so happy that you said that. He would 00:46:58.760 --> 00:47:02.019 be like, see, I told you, Becca. See, Alita's 00:47:02.019 --> 00:47:04.599 not crazy. Because I would cut off my pinky. 00:47:04.699 --> 00:47:08.500 There you go. I'm the... unhinged, nuts one who 00:47:08.500 --> 00:47:10.880 would cut off my pinky. And I will say it's because 00:47:10.880 --> 00:47:13.840 I have had hiccups for multiple days at a time 00:47:13.840 --> 00:47:16.500 and it really hurts and I cannot sleep and I 00:47:16.500 --> 00:47:19.739 would lose my mind after three months of having 00:47:19.739 --> 00:47:22.000 hiccups and I would have jumped off a bridge 00:47:22.000 --> 00:47:25.199 at that point. And so by that point, who needs 00:47:25.199 --> 00:47:26.780 a pinky if you've already jumped off a bridge? 00:47:27.099 --> 00:47:31.760 So there you go. That's true. That's true. Okay. 00:47:32.559 --> 00:47:36.099 Before we sign off, I would... Love to give you 00:47:36.099 --> 00:47:37.900 an opportunity. Is there anything that you would 00:47:37.900 --> 00:47:42.599 like to share, pitch, whatever, send people to 00:47:42.599 --> 00:47:49.619 before we log off for the day? I don't have any 00:47:49.619 --> 00:47:52.659 pitches, but I do have a deep desire to help 00:47:52.659 --> 00:47:55.199 with all my crazy experiments because whenever 00:47:55.199 --> 00:47:58.199 I share the type of things that I'm working on, 00:47:58.280 --> 00:48:00.880 someone always gives me feedback on what's... 00:48:01.159 --> 00:48:02.800 working and I was not working. And that's my 00:48:02.800 --> 00:48:05.780 best way of learning. So I do have a notion docs 00:48:05.780 --> 00:48:07.880 around all the things that I've spoken about 00:48:07.880 --> 00:48:11.260 and also around how we do our strategy for social 00:48:11.260 --> 00:48:14.800 media and deeper into my process for writing. 00:48:15.099 --> 00:48:17.199 And I can share all of that with you and we can 00:48:17.199 --> 00:48:19.019 put it in the description and maybe it helps 00:48:19.019 --> 00:48:22.420 someone. I would love that. So yes, please share 00:48:22.420 --> 00:48:25.860 with me and audience. I will add the links into 00:48:25.860 --> 00:48:28.900 the show notes so that you can go see Alina's. 00:48:29.500 --> 00:48:32.179 jillions of notions because she is apparently 00:48:32.179 --> 00:48:35.139 the notion queen. And I am super excited to dig 00:48:35.139 --> 00:48:37.039 into these myself because I think we all have 00:48:37.039 --> 00:48:39.659 a lot to learn here. Thank you so much for coming 00:48:39.659 --> 00:48:43.219 on the show. Sorry. Thank you, Becca. And for 00:48:43.219 --> 00:48:45.019 those that are listening and do not see like 00:48:45.019 --> 00:48:47.760 in YouTube, if you come find me on LinkedIn, 00:48:47.900 --> 00:48:50.300 I have it on the, at the top of my profile, it 00:48:50.300 --> 00:48:52.380 says visit my website and it goes deep into my 00:48:52.380 --> 00:48:54.760 notions as well. So if you're listening and you 00:48:54.760 --> 00:48:57.619 don't have to link, there's that option as well. 00:48:58.039 --> 00:49:00.699 There you go. Thank you so much. It's been great 00:49:00.699 --> 00:49:04.119 having you. Thank you Becca. It was a pleasure.