SLP- its more than the R sound === Meredith: [00:00:00] Imagine waking up one day and knowing exactly what you want to say, but being unable to form the words. For many of our children, this is a daily reality. Think about the last time you were totally misunderstood or that your child was misunderstood. Communication is the foundation of human connection. Yet for thousands, that foundation has cracks. Speech language therapy isn't about making everyone sound the same. It's about giving everyone the power to be heard. Grab your cup of coffee because today we're meeting with speech language in Douglas County. Hi everyone and welcome back to Special Ed IEPs, 504s, oh my Conversations with DCSEAC I'm your host Meredith, Joining me today are Cindy Stevenson and Annika Barton.~ Would you like to ~tell me about your role and what you do? Annika: I'm Annika Barton. I'm the Assistant Director of the Early Childhood Department. I [00:01:00] specialize in assessments. I oversee our child find assessment teams here in the district. We have five of them. And I am a speech language pathologist by background. I'm really excited to be here working with my friend Cindy to talk ~a little bit ~about this topic. Cindy: I am Cindy Stevenson. I am the speech language pathologist lead for the kindergarten through Bridge programs. ~And so ~I coach, mentor, and guide all of the SLPs, and I am thrilled to be with Annika. We've worked together for so many years that I love being able to problem solve and work with her. Meredith: ~I'm excited to have you. So starting out, ~we often hear that speech and language services is the front door to special education. Why is that? Annika: ~Yeah, that's a great question.~ ~So I really feel like ~speech and language is ~really ~one of the first. Outward signs that families can identify that something might not be going quite right ~for their, ~for their little one. ~And you know, ~everybody wants their kids to [00:02:00] walk and then to talk~ and, and ~kind of in that order. ~And so ~when something goes a little bit awry in ~that ~speech and language development, ~it ~families are pretty keenly aware of that. Or they have a family, friend, neighbor someone in the grocery store who comments on that ~doesn't sound quite right or is your child doing this? And so ~it ~just ~seems to be a really nice entry point into development for our families. Meredith: I agree. I think it is one of the most visible ones, and I was one of those parents myself ~where you're just.~ Stressing out about all of that. So when a parent notices their toddler isn't talking as much as their peers, ~as you were talking about, ~how does ~the ds, I'm sorry, ~Douglas County School District Child find act as the bridge rather than the barrier for these families? Annika: ~Yes. ~So we have amazing child find teams, ~as I, as I alluded to a little bit ago.~ And our child find teams really work to support families. ~Maybe ~who noticed that delay a little bit early, who are currently in early intervention that [00:03:00] birth to three part of services. We support those families to transition into preschool special education. ~We also, ~our child find teams, ~just ~evaluate students in that three to five age band before they hit kindergarten. So ~really ~my whole department exists to support kids and families in getting access to the supports that they need sooner before kindergarten. And Cindy, ~I, ~I think this is a nice place to bridge over into why we want to get that intervention in so soon. Cindy: ~Yeah. ~I think it's ~so ~important ~to have. ~Kiddos have exposure. ~I think looking at ~play and cognition in language, they all develop together. ~And so ~play, especially imaginative play is ~really ~important to learning those developmental skills that kiddos need to be able to access learning, especially reading as they get into elementary. ~And so ~we want ~to have ~them have access to lit rich language environments. ~That's so important in that play. ~We want ~to have ~them exposed to books and [00:04:00] print museums zoos, field trips, reading signs, talking about what they're doing. All of these things are gonna give them background knowledge to connect to ideas when they're reading. ~And so ~it's ~just so ~important that we grab them early and young and that they have that frequent rich exposure to language. Meredith: Lynni would agree with that. The earlier intervention for that reading piece. ~So ~as a parent that had a kiddo with delayed speech, the underlying issue was autism. ~So ~I know a lot of parents ~do ~come in to child find speech is ~like ~the first thing ~that is ~identified, but how are you having conversations with parents ~kind of.~ Once preschool entering kindergarten's happening where we're noticing there's ~a lot ~more support ~that's ~needed besides speech. Annika: ~Yeah, such a great point Meredith. ~That speech is sometimes that outward symptom. ~And ~there's so many reasons why that speech and the communication could be [00:05:00] delayed. ~Such is such a great point there.~ We support our families wherever they are, along that journey in preschool and ~really ~help those children learn the skills that they need to learn. ~But ~we're also helping our families understand. What is special education? What is development? What is the next step along that journey? And then ~just when we get 'em all settled in, ~it is time for the transition to kindergarten. ~And ~it can feel ~so ~big and scary for many of our families, but our preschool teams and our elementary teams. ~Really ~come together and walk alongside that family in their journey. Some families need a lot of support through that process and other families don't, and that's okay. ~But ~our preschool teams and our elementary teams. Really collaborate to talk about each individual student and what support they have been getting in preschool and what support they may need as they go to kindergarten. Cindy, do you wanna talk a little bit more about that? Cindy: ~Yeah, and ~I think those professional collaboration and conversations are ~so, so ~key~ and ~making sure that we know what [00:06:00] supports have been in preschool and how it's been successful~ knowing that.~ Kindergarten is a different environment. ~And it looks so, so different, ~but there's also maturation that occurs over summer. It's amazing to see how much these kids grow in that short time period. ~And so ~having that information, documenting that, having those contacts and that collaboration ~really ~is key to our successful transition. ~And then we also, ~when they get into kindergarten. ~We start to learn them. And ~if we're seeing that their program's not matching what their needs are, then we ~come back to it, ~gather as a team, and we adjust it. Nothing is set in stone and ~so ~we wanna make sure that we're walking alongside the family and ~really ~meeting ~the, ~the students' needs. ~One of the things that ~I've noticed ~over the last couple of years is that a lot of times ~families will have a kiddo in preschool. That has an IEP and then they choose to take ~kind of ~a gap year ~mm-hmm. ~Before they go to kindergarten. ~And so ~that brings up ~a lot of ~questions for the families of what happens when we ~do decide to ~go to kindergarten. We've had an IEP. Is that still active? ~How do we start that process again? And so ~that's where the elementary school team~ really ~looks at the evaluation ~and they look ~and determine is it ~really ~[00:07:00] reflective of what the student is presenting like now? If it is, then we're gonna create an interim IEP. That's kind of a temporary IEP while we get to know the student and then we'll write a new one within the next 30 days to update goals and services ~to match the student's needs. ~But if we see that the evaluation really isn't reflective of what the student is presenting on and we feel like we want more information, then we're gonna go ahead and get parents permission to initiate an evaluation. ~And kind of go through that entire IEP process. ~We really just wanna make sure that we're supporting families and students where they need to be ~at that point. ~ Meredith: ~I love that you did bring that up. ~On the other side of it, I hear other peers and friends and they're always like, I hope they don't get held back because of their speech. That does seem to be a fear, their child can't go to kindergarten because ~they're not speaking at a rate that a, that's a weird way to say it, but ~they're not speaking at the developmental level of some of their peers. Cindy: ~And ~I think that's a common fear. We want the best for our kids as parents, right? ~And so I think just ~being rest assured [00:08:00] that you have professionals in the elementary school building that are gonna walk alongside them. Sometimes as SOPs, we will go in and ~we'll flood the kindergarten class and will ~be a part of their centers and ~will be ~a rotation where the kids come through so that they're provided those services in the classroom. Other times we're gonna do pullout. Because attention is an issue ~when you're a little bit little, ~it's hard to pay attention with lots of things going around. And so sometimes those pullout services are better. But we spend a lot of time collaborating with our kindergarten teachers and making sure that they have strategies for those kids that are still developing some of those sounds, but may not need as intensive instruction as pullout services from an SLP. We can provide them some strategies and then we'll work alongside them if. The kiddos aren't making the progress and we can move forward and get them more intensive instruction. Annika: ~Right. ~That's a great point, Cindy, to ~really ~think about the individualized supports for students. ~Again, ~it goes back to knowing what's the reason for that [00:09:00] communication delay. ~What else is that ~what else is happening for that student, for that learner as we go forward? My ~favorite, ~favorite phrase is that kindergarten is ready for the student, not the student is ready for kindergarten. And I think that holds. ~So, so true ~for our friends with communication delays, ~no matter.~ ~The reason is that ~it's our job as adults to make sure that kindergarten is ready to meet the needs. Of that learner and not the ~way or ~other way around. ~Now ~with the little caveat, of course, we want our students to learn and grow and progress, and we want them to get as close to age, typical as possible based on their own needs. ~But ~especially when we think about stepping out of the preschool play-based world, half day programming. ~Or not quite as long of programming, ~even our full day classrooms and stepping into kindergarten. We ~as grownups ~have to work hard to make sure that those environments are ready for our students. Cindy: ~Well, and ~I think ~we also do a really good job of ~our kindergarten teachers are amazing professionals, ~and I wanna give a shout out to them. Yeah. ~They do such a good job of teaching our kiddos how to do school. ~Mm-hmm. And ~so much of kindergarten is ~just ~learning those routines and those [00:10:00] social expectations. Meredith: ~That's true. ~We do have a great kindergarten team in my experience. So how about moving from kindergarten into first grade? Are there other transitions and changes in speech and the kind of expectations a parent should, ~oh sorry. Is there an expect, should a parent, ~how should a parent expect services to kind of change throughout the elementary timeframe? 'cause I know my son. It was very focused on how to say words ~until a certain point, ~and now he's talking a lot better. And now we're working more on social engagement. How does that change throughout that first grade to fifth grade? Cindy: ~Gosh, that's a really good question. And of course ~my first thought is it's really individualized. ~Onto ~what the student needs. ~And so ~we ~really ~focus on ~what is, ~what are the deficits that are ~really ~getting in their way ~to be able ~to access education? ~And when I say education, I'm thinking ~academically as well as socially. ~And so ~sometimes that first hurdle ~that we need to get over ~is those speech sounds. ~And ~being able to communicate [00:11:00] clearly. ~And ~then we start looking more at the grammatical structures and the social interaction. ~I think ~as we go from first grade up into the higher grades, fourth, fifth, and sixth, we're ~really ~starting to look more at those higher level language skills. ~Mm-hmm. ~As well as the social. Inferencing predicting, understanding, main idea and details~ how to ~work as a group and ~to ~collaborate. A lot of times ~as ~they're coming in, they're doing ~a little bit ~more parallel play, and they're still trying to figure out that collaborative interaction piece. Understanding how peers are ~under, you know, ~perceiving your words and your actions and how all of those things go together. ~Anna, did you have anything else to add to that?~ Annika: I ~just ~love to listen to you talk about how our students learn and grow. ~I mean, the cool thing about speech and language is that. ~We've studied speech and language ~for the for forever, ~so we know what the steps are and ~kind of ~what the building blocks are that kids need to learn and grow through. ~So ~you have to have enough words ~in order ~to build sentences and ~you have to have ~enough variety in your words to build ~set ~sentences. ~And so speech is really cool in that, you know, ~we know ~how kids and ~how typical [00:12:00] development goes ~and for the most part. Okay. ~Even if it's delayed, kids still need to learn all of those same steps and processes as they go through their journey. But Cindy's exactly right. ~We, ~we learn the words and then we learn how to use those words. And then ~we use, ~we figure out how to. Understand what we're reading ~because that's just another layer of words, ~but we have to learn how to do things in spoken language before we can understand them in written language, whether that's in reading or in writing. You can't do things in writing that you can't speak. And so ~it's, we, ~we know the progressions over time ~and, ~and so families really need to ask those hard questions. What's next? For my child ~as we go through here, ~how do we practice this? ~That sort of thing and, ~and watch the IEP or watch the services change as their child learns and grows. Cindy: ~I'd love, ~I think another piece that I see as kids get older, we do a lot more collaborative services. ~Yeah. ~We're collaborating with mental health. ~Yeah. ~On those social emotional pieces. I loved to collaborate with my special [00:13:00] education teacher for those language kiddos. If they're reading, I wanna be there to help them understand if they're writing, I wanna ~be able to ~help them ~be able to ~produce it orally so that it can translate to that writing. Meredith: ~I love that. And ~I think sometimes parents don't always understand ~like ~how much speech is a part of other things ~that ~their child is learning and developing. ~How about ~if a child is needing to utilize a device? Are you ~the. ~The department that would help support that communication. Cindy: ~You know, ~we are ~really ~blessed to have a specific department to ~kind of ~help ~all of ~our SLPs throughout the district with those device users. We have a Swaaac team. They're a consultative team and they're amazing ~and wonderful ~and talented, ~and ~they have ~really ~jumped in ~like both. Full, like deep end ~into that world and they ~really ~enjoy that. They have so much skills in that, but they help us as much as we need or as little as we need. ~And just ~like Annika was saying, language develops in this typical [00:14:00] pattern. ~It's no different for. ~Or a kiddo that's using a device language is language. It still follows that same pattern. The modeling on the device is critical ~and so a lot of times ~not only are we teaching the student how to access and communicate with their device, but we're teaching other professionals in the building how to model and model and model ~that is just so, so key ~because we need to increase that modeling so that they really can have functional language. Meredith: ~Oh, that's awesome. That's really like great to hear. ~How about middle school? ~It's a social mind filled. And you kind of touched a little bit on this, but ~how are the speech language pathologists helping students navigate ~like unspoken words, like ~sarcasm or shifting from, ~you know, ~six different teachers? Cindy: ~You know, ~there's a lot that goes into middle school. I think of middle school as this ~just ~unique group of people because ~there, ~there's ~a little bit of ~articulation that's still there because sometimes we see those lingering rs that haven't quite remediated. But then we also have higher level language and ~we have the ~social skills. It's ~really ~amazing to watch the growth in social skills and how much they solidify in middle [00:15:00] school because they're all together in elementary school and even sometimes our higher functioning autism kids can pretty much hang in elementary school. ~Mm-hmm. ~But then they get to middle school and about day three. Everybody else has taken this huge jump and sometimes our kids with those deficits, with the pragmatics, they're still ~kind of ~trying to figure things out. ~And ~so we spend a lot of time working on recognizing facial expressions gestures, body language, tone of voice. Understanding ~what our ~facial expressions ~look like, our ~tone of voice ~reading, ~social context. We also do ~what I call ~code switching, where we learn how to communicate with different professionals and different people. How I'm going to talk to my peers is ~gonna be very, very ~different than how I communicate with a teacher. I can use ~all of my fun ~slang and ~I can ~say six, seven as much as I want to my peers, but if I'm gonna. Talk to my teacher. I need ~to use almost more a standardized English pattern, almost like I would in writing. And so I need to be able ~to code switch and we do ~a lot of ~supporting with our middle school kids ~in lots of different ways. A lot of times ~our [00:16:00] SLPs will push in, in Strats classes ~to be there ~to support ~that ~language and ~that ~vocabulary. They will push into our effective needs classrooms and our SSM classrooms to work on ~those ~social skills. Sometimes we'll pull out and ~we'll ~do collaborative groups with our mental health. ~Again, ~for those social skills, we do ~a lot of ~role play video modeling, ~having ~purposeful activities. ~Where the kids are involved. ~Lunch Bunch is a great place to work on social skills where the kids will come and eat lunch with the SLP and ~a bunch of ~peers, and then we can work on conversations and how to stay on topic and how to maybe chew with our mouth closed. ~That's helpful. ~Sometimes LPs have put together ~like ~game clubs where the kids will come and play games. There's a lot of social skills that happen ~just ~within a game. Anika, can you think of anything else that I've missed? Annika: ~Oh my gosh, ~Cindy, that was incredible. ~And ~I ~just ~keep remembering that preschoolers and middle schoolers are pretty much the same types of human beings, and we're working on the same things. ~And you know, I, I often kind of jokingly say, but I, but ~I [00:17:00] believe it to be true that middle school is where we refine our skills, right? ~So ~we might have the language. To use, but we just don't use it quite right. ~And ~I feel like middle school is where a lot of those supports are all about refinement tone. ~I mean, and ~that's true for every middle schooler, not just our middle schoolers who ~happen to ~have some delays in the communication domain everybody is working on. Just trying to manage friends versus grownups and then the multiple grownups and tone and non-verbals ~and all of that. So I sometimes talk about middle, we, ~we learn in elementary and ~we ~refine as we go into secondary ~being ~middle school and high school. Meredith: Is there a difference between what you're supporting in middle school and high school? Cindy: ~I would say ~yes, that refinement is even bigger. ~And I guess I look at, like Annika was saying, ~preschool and middle school is the same. ~I typically say ~high school and middle schoolers ~or ~and preschoolers are the same. They just have bigger bodies. But they kind of react the same. If they [00:18:00] get grumpy, you either feed them or put them down for a nap. ~True.~ Annika: It's ~so ~true. Cindy: ~It's so true. But we ~language becomes really real in high school just like it is in preschool, where it's really functional and real and they need to be able to communicate. In high school, it's the same thing. We need to refine so that they have functional language and social skills so that they can ~go on and ~do the rest of their life. ~And do whatever they wanna do. ~We wanna give them ~all of those ~foundational skills. We wanna ~be able to ~teach them, ~again, more of that ~flexibility and adaptation as to who they're speaking to and how they're going to speak to them. ~And ~that's, ~again, ~gonna translate into ~that ~writing. We want ~to be able ~to refine ~more of those ~social emotional skills ~of ~empathy and ~complex ~social interactions dating. How to navigate that, how to ask somebody on a date, how to deal with it if they reject you. ~A lot of those things. ~Vocabulary, understanding ~that ~academic vocabulary. ~A lot of times we talk about ~tier two vocabulary, ~which kind of. ~Spans ~all con ~content areas. But ~then ~you also have subject specific vocabulary ~that ~tier three vocabulary ~where ~if I'm talking about photosynthesis, [00:19:00] it's really just a science thing. Whereas if I'm saying quadratic equations, ~I'm looking at that ~math ~and those ~are not gonna translate between subjects. It's ~just so, ~so functional. ~And I guess ~I love that part of high school is it ~just ~becomes ~so ~real and we want ~to be able ~to help them be successful, to get into college, to get jobs and to navigate their social relationships. Meredith: I love that the little dating, how to ask him on a date, ~like ~scariest thing ever. So it'd be nice. Just have that ~little ~extra support. Cindy: Like there's a lot of people that need that ~anymore. ~ Meredith: ~Yeah. ~We're all a little socially awkward. ~So ~you talked about bridge, but not every student is qualified for Bridge. ~How, so? It's a two-parter. How would you, ~if a student still would need services. But don't qualify for Bridge. ~Do you ~make recommendations for graduation on what they can do to advocate for themselves if they're going to college or trade school or anything else in the community? Are you giving them some resources to utilize~ 'cause ~obviously ~like ~you can't mandate it and then we'll move into Bridge ~'cause that's a different kind of support.~ Cindy: ~Yeah, it is. So ~yeah, we do work closely. We do give families [00:20:00] resources. A lot of times we'll help the kids learn how to advocate for some of those accommodations ~that they've had ~because those can move on with them into college. And I know that colleges ~have, ~a lot of times they'll hook 'em up with a peer mentor to be able to help 'em with some of those executive. Functioning things that they may need ~for some of our kids. ~And ~we just, ~we become a resource, and I know several of our secondary SLPs where kids will continue to reach out to them for help and guidance even after they've graduated. And so I think that relationship building is probably one of the biggest things, is that they know that we are there and a resource for them. Meredith: Oh, I love that. That's sweet. ~And it's, ~it's reassuring to ~also ~hear ~like. ~There's gonna be support in college. They ~just ~need to know how to ask for that 5 0 4 support ~with that person coming out and, and oh my God, it's ~ Annika: ~incredible to listen to this because. As I, ~I'm just thinking about a student's journey over the PK 21 Spectrum and all the support and love that we pour onto families in the preschool age band ~really ~shifts and becomes agency and advocacy to our high school and [00:21:00] our bridge students. And it's not any less love, it's just aimed at a different place. ~And it's just so cool. ~I have goosebumps~ just kind of ~thinking about how Douglas County ~wraps their ~wraps, their loving care and attention around these students ~and ~throughout their whole journey. It's incredible. Meredith: I agree. ~Yeah.~ Cindy: I think one of our big resources for our kiddos that may not qualify for Bridge is swap. I can't remember. ~It's work. ~Something else. Annika: ~School. ~School to work Alliance program. Cindy: ~Yeah. There we go. And that's really wonderful. And ~I ~also ~love that we have a variety of high schools to meet ~all kinds of ~kids' needs. ~You know, ~we have our traditional high schools, ~we have ~trade schools~ we have ~alternative schools night schools ~and things like that.~ We ~just ~have lots of resources to help our kiddos follow their passions and their dreams. Meredith: ~Yeah, ~legacy has several of those ~wonderful ~programs ~as well. ~Can you talk ~a little bit ~about support through Bridge? Cindy: ~Oh my gosh. ~Bridge holds a special place in my heart. ~I think ~it is one of the most. Enjoyable places to be because you are working on real life, ~doing it, applying it ~with these kids, whether it's social [00:22:00] skills, ~because they are still navigating social relationships ~or how to get a job, how to follow through. If ~somebody tells me, ~my employer tells me to do something and I don't wanna do it, how am I gonna react to that? How am I gonna advocate if I. Don't quite understand and we're going to job sites, ~we're going on ~field trips that are collaborative. I love it when they go to the store and they've made a grocery list and they're buying things and then they come ~home ~and ~they have to follow the directions or not home, but to the bridge where ~they have to follow the directions and they have to make the meal and then they sit down and eat it. There's ~just ~so many wonderful things. I think it's the epitome of a rich language environment. Meredith: ~So ~you touch on a lot of things ~that like multiple. And you, ~you said you interact a lot with other professionals ~and so, mm-hmm. ~That sounds ~a lot ~like ~even ~OT being involved with a lot of what you're talking about ~as well.~ So what is ~like ~the line. Is there a line to be like, you're ot, IMST? Like when you're doing some of those dual things. ~'cause like I'm, I'm like that's great. ~'cause ~like ~I think as a parent you're just like, well, what do you do? And then why is this other person doing the same thing? Just ~like ~from a parent's perspective. Cindy: ~Right. ~I think that is a fair [00:23:00] question because when we're doing all of those, if you take that cooking activity, there's ~a lot of ~blurry lines between what OT does and mental health and speech and language, ~you know, ~all of the fine motor things. OT is gonna take care of and we're gonna work together, but I'm gonna be standing alongside because we're gonna follow directions and ~we've gotta ~figure out what we need to buy, and ~we've gotta ~figure out how to talk to each other. The mental health is gonna be there for the emotional regulation and being able to communicate. There's that overlap between, ~you know. ~Speech and language and mental health. And so it becomes really collaborative. And if we're really doing it well as professionals, you can't tell who's which professional. Meredith: ~No, exactly. ~That's why ~like ~a parent's gonna be like, what? ~But ~why are all these people doing the same thing, ~essentially is like a parent's perfection. ~But that's what you want. You want them ~at that support all ~wrapped around your child. So it's not a bad thing, but I ~definitely ~can see a parent being like, why are you doing the same thing? Annika: ~I think, well, so we, ~we use a similar model in early childhood. It's called the Transdisciplinary Model. ~And ~the coolest thing about the transdisciplinary [00:24:00] model is that it is so student focused, so everyone who works with a child understands what that child needs are and ~what they, ~what they love, what their strengths are what they're really great at and what's a little bit harder. ~Because let's be honest, ~life doesn't happen in discipline silos. We don't only use our communication skills, ~you know, here in this world ~to do the things we are navigating, the social aspects, we are navigating the motor aspects, ~I mean. ~Every task that we do as a human being relies on our well-integrated brain to do multiple tasks together. So when the grownups surround themselves around a student and work on these real life aspects, ~I mean, ~cooking is math. Cooking is literacy, cooking is communication. Cooking is. Social in our world, where does everybody hang out when we have a meal in the kitchen? ~Right. ~So ~when we, ~when we break down the barriers between the adults, because that is more [00:25:00] like what real life is. The student benefits. So we use that same model in preschool and bridge is where we pull it all together and tie it all back up in the same sort of way. And it is incredible When it works students really do benefit from it. Meredith: I'm ~totally ~doing the heart with my hands right now. You can't see it, ~but love it.~ ~I guess like, so I mean it would usually be like identified early, like ~ a parent would usually come ~probably ~when their child's itty bitty, is it ever identified as a new support, like ~is ~a child who's never needed speech in elementary, is it ever needed in middle school or high school?? What does that look like? ~Yeah, it~ Annika: very well could be it. ~Very well could be. I mean, ~Meredith, let's go back to that question. Regardless of the age of the student child, find is a mandate for birth to 21. So if you live in Douglas County or you go to school in Douglas County. Child find exists to support you. And you can call my office ~even though my role is really over three to five, but ~my other role is to connect parents to where the support is. So it happens all the time where I'll get a phone call from ~a family member ~a parent who's looking for. ~Some ~support for their 8-year-old ~or who, however, ~and I just say, thank [00:26:00] you so much. ~I'm so sorry you're having a hard time. ~Here's who we're gonna talk to. That's my job as the child plan coordinator, is to connect families to. Resources and supports. ~Now ~you can skip me if your child is enrolled in a neighborhood school or ~even ~in a charter school, and you can go to your special education team and ask those questions ~as well.~ Cindy, do you wanna talk a little bit more about that? Cindy: ~Yeah, and ~I think that's a great place starting with. The special education team or ~even ~the general education teacher and talking about, Hey, I have some concerns. Who can I be connected to? ~And then having that, ~usually we'll pull together a meeting with all of our professionals and the parents to ~really ~talk about what are their concerns? How can we support, what are we doing? What can we do better to partner together~ to be able ~to help this student be successful? And sometimes. That ends in us signing consent and moving forward with an evaluation. And sometimes it's, Hey, let us try some of these ideas for a little bit and let's see what happens. ~But ~it's ~really ~tailored to what the student needs. We wanna make sure ~that ~they have access [00:27:00] to their education, but ~we ~also ~wanna ~keep them in the least restrictive environment. ~And so kind of ~balancing those two things is ~really, ~really important. Annika: ~Oh, such a great point, ~Cindy, ~to remember that ~not every question from a family results in an evaluation, but that doesn't mean the question shouldn't be asked. ~That's a great point right there. No, ~ Cindy: ~yeah. ~We love it when questions are asked. We wanna ~be able to ~be a resource and help~ and it's just truly ~a collaborative team approach to figure out how can we best support your kiddo. Meredith: Yeah, ~you brought up a good point with ~child find ~It ~is for all those ages ~to 20 ~zero to 22 and you would be ~the, ~a good area to go to. ~I don't know why that was the question, how it was worded like that. Sorry. I used AI to kind of like train my thought and that was a weird way to say it. So, ~so child find is where we go ~or a teacher, but what does that. I am just curious, I'm, I might not include it in the podcast, but I'm just ~curious, what would that look like? Like what is something that might come up that a child ~didn't, ~wasn't identified? Maybe in elementary needing speech services, but then like maybe middle school. ~This is just my own curiosity. What is, ~what is that? Annika: ~Ooh. ~Can I answer? Yes. Can I answer? ~Can I answer?~ Cindy: Yes. Annika: Pragmatic ~for it.~ Cindy: Anika. Annika: ~Pragmatic. So, ~pragmatics often kids can hang and use their social language through elementary, but by the time they hit middle school~ it, the, ~it just gets ~really, ~really hard. ~And so ~it might be a new referral for a kid who's flown under the radar for a little bit. ~And with kind of holding it all together, I will also tell you ~life [00:28:00] changes and sometimes our kids' actual brain neurological states change and it can look like a communication disorder. Anxiety can spike and you can end up with selective mutism, things like that that are all brain-based because development changes, ~humans change over time.~ ~And so I think ~those would be my first off the cuff. ~Answers right there. ~Pragmatics or ~a big actual ~a big actual change to the child themself. Cindy: ~Yeah. And ~I think I would ~just ~throw in ~there ~a traumatic event. Annika: Yes. ~Mm-hmm. ~That too. Cindy: ~Yeah. And ~that will change language abilities. ~So much. And so I think the other thing that ~I found ~was super fascinating ~when I worked on the autism team, like Annika was saying we have kids that are high functioning autism and they ~kind of ~fly under the radar until middle school. We also have another group that flies under the radar until they hit high school, ~and so. ~We have a ton of initial evals in high school, ~which is mind blowing, but we do. ~ Meredith: ~That's great. ~And it's like the autism kiddos that are like under the, ~so it's, ~so it's across the board that there's always ~this ~kids under the radar ~for whatever discipline ~and then they're later disidentified. I'm gonna keep that in because that's ~actually very ~interesting ~that you're getting lots of, ~so middle school, maybe not, but ~like ~high school, there's ~like ~an influx of this Cindy: ~both. It's kind of ~both. Both because social demands get [00:29:00] greater each time you move up and so do the language demands. ~And so ~they might ~be able to ~be okay in one or two ~of those ~settings, but by the third ~one, ~they may not, or they're ~just ~fine in elementary and by middle school it's like, wow, ~those are just ~too much for me. Meredith: ~Okay. Mm-hmm. So what, that's interesting. I'm sorry, I'm trying to like, this isn't on the paper, I'm trying to think how to word this, but like, ~so as a parent ~who's all of a sudden. Starting an, maybe this might be their first time, like ~starting an IEP ~'cause it's now identified. Like, ~how do you support them in understanding ~like ~your child can still graduate, they can still go do all these things. 'Cause I think a parent's gonna wanna be like, well, can they graduate? Are they gonna be okay in the real world? Cindy: ~Oh, ~I think that's ~such ~a good question because ~we, I think ~we encounter that through all levels. ~At any point I think ~one of the first discussions that we have is that special education looks way different than it did 30 or 40 years ago. ~Yes,~ Annika: yes. Cindy: ~And ~it is truly support. ~And I think the other thing that we're seeing is ~our two E kids are twice exceptional. ~You have some ~super intelligent kids, but they also have some needs ~where they need some support. And so ~how do we balance both of those and ~being able to ~get them the supports ~that ~they need, whether it's through direct services or accommodations. ~Or whatever it is to be able to help satisfy both ends of those. ~ Meredith: ~And you bring up another great point. ~We're gonna do another podcast with the two E folks, [00:30:00] but ~you know, ~parents are always talking about, ~you know, ~two e's kind of new to the district, but there's a lot of masking going on with these kiddos ~are, ~and we know ~that like, ~that's gonna be true psychologically and for their wellbeing. ~But I feel like that's something hard to mask. ~With language, are you noticing that they are masking maybe through middle school and then this is the influx in high school, like they are finding a way to navigate? ~Okay. ~And then that's when it's identified, or are we seeing that masking? Cindy: I think you can see it middle school and high school. Annika: ~I, that's what I was just gonna say. ~It totally depends upon the kiddo, right? ~So ~some kids can mask through third grade, some kids can mask through the start of middle school. Some kids can mask through high school and some kids can't. ~I think interestingly enough, and in my experience here, ~you were talking about those families who have that newly identified child kind of later. ~In the, in the educational spectrum, I suppose. And I honestly, ~my experience with those has been a sense of relief from the family. ~Just to go back to what you're talking about, about this masking, right? ~They've known and they've seen their child. Struggle ~or hang together ~or completely [00:31:00] meltdown in the home or something that just they aren't doing in the school environment. ~And so ~sometimes it ~actually ~is reassuring that there is ~some ~supports and services out here for my child. ~And ~my child doesn't have to struggle so significantly any further. So I've ~actually ~seen a lot of relief followed closely by the so what next questions. But there is a sense of just. Meredith: It makes sense Annika: ~that, that yeah, yeah.~ ~That sensemaking great words ~that sensemaking about these students who are such brilliant Masters. Meredith: That's Annika: mm-hmm. Cindy: ~Yeah. I think ~I liken it to having some kind of physical or medical issue, and you're going to the doctor and ~you like, you know, ~something's wrong and you keep searching. Meredith: Mm-hmm. Cindy: But when you finally get a diagnosis, it's like, ha. Okay. ~I'm~ Meredith: not crazy Cindy: now. I know what it is. ~I'm not crazy. ~Now what are we gonna do next? Meredith: ~Sorry. I just remembered my question. So, okay, so ~you're talking about the struggles at home. ~Sorry, this, I don't know where my brain went. Okay, so like a ~parents ~know, ~seeing the struggles at home, school's not seeing them ~can't, how can. Because it's, it's big.~ ~Like ~they ~do ~want that relief. Are they going to need to seek outside speech if school's not seeing it? ~'cause ~it's not impacting them at school, but they're noticing [00:32:00] it. I mean obviously I think you would still want them to go to the team ~to talk to, ~to talk to the team, to be like, I'm noticing these things. But ~like, ~where does a parent go? ~'cause like ~maybe they might be ~con ~like, well I only do see it at home. Can I go to you? Yeah, Cindy: ~I think that's ~another ~really ~good point. ~I think there are a couple things. I think ~collaborating with the school team is really important. 'cause what if we are seeing it, we wanna be a help ~and a counterpart ~and a partner with that. ~But I think also ~what's really hard for us as SLPs is we have to ~kind of ~keep our world in an educational SLP. ~And that's where our world and our lens is. ~Is it educationally impacting the student academically or socially? When we go to graduate school, we are trained to work ~in all ~across our field, and we can be private, we can be medical, we can be home health, and we have ~really ~big hearts. ~And ~we got into this profession because we wanna help people. ~And we love to help people, but ~we do have to say, ~oh, ~this is the educational impact and ~yes, ~this is what the data is showing that we can provide services and they meet the criteria that Colorado Department of Education has [00:33:00] outlined. But in the private world or the medical world, I can work on a whole bunch of things. ~And so it's, ~it's kind of a balance. ~And so ~if. You bring your child to us and we say ~we're, ~yes, we agree, we see that, but it's not educationally impacting them or ~no, ~we don't see it at school. Then sometimes parents can ask for outside resources and we can give you a list and you can make a decision based on that. Meredith: I didn't realize there was, 'cause I just thought speech was like. It impacts everything. ~And so ~I ~just ~assumed it would be educational, but ~to loop that in, like ~I know occupational therapy ~definitely ~has ~like ~that line of educational versus you need to seek outside support. How can you explain what that is for speech? ~What is, ~you guys have a fine line or is it kind of blurry? 'cause now I'm, I didn't think of that. Annika: ~Yes. That's such a great question. ~It exists in the early childhood world too. ~So. ~Just like we were talking about those developmental milestones having speech that no one can understand is ~actually ~developmentally appropriate ~for, for a few minutes.~ ~And so it's imp and, ~and does that make it, impactful to your education? [00:34:00] Yes. But it's impacting every kid the same way. And so that's not something a child could qualify for. So we have to think about ~what, ~what that specific need is, whether it's speech, ~you know, ~articulation, or whether it's language or whether it's pragmatics and social. Cindy: Mm-hmm. Annika: ~And then ~we have to ~really ~think about. ~What is ~that layer of impact for that student and what would the treatment be? ~Right. So ~it isn't just impact, it's treatment and specially designed instruction. ~Mm-hmm. As well. ~It can't just be that there is a need or that there is a deficit. ~And yes, ~there are private SLPs that we'll work on and refine and fine tune all of the things. Long past where an educational SLP would continue to work on things ~for ~Cindy talked about those ~s ~That's one of 'em. Cindy: Oh yeah. That's what's gonna be my example is we can have our kids that are upper elementary to middle and high school that may still distort their s but. They still talk, ~they still under, you know, ~everybody [00:35:00] understands and their intelligibility is ~greater, ~greater than 80% ~and not, ~and we don't see it in their writing or their spelling. They're able to have that sound letter correspondence. They have a lot of friends. It's not educationally impacting them. And so that's something that a family would have to seek outside services. And I think it is the same thing like Annika said, for language. I'm not gonna worry about higher level language skills like inferencing and predicting with a first grader because that's not developmentally appropriate for them. Maybe sarcasm and idio. The same thing. But ~again, ~is it impacting them educationally? ~And I think remembering, ~I always tell my SLPs, we have a three-pronged approach. Does our body of evidence show that there is a deficit? ~Do, ~do they require specialized instruction from an SLP? ~Because there's overlap between some of those things and ~is it educationally impacting them? And that's how we make those decisions. Meredith: ~Okay, so okay. ~Parents ~out there so you, ~you can have concerns about your child and their speech. ~It's just like anything else. It has to be educational, like it has to be ~impacting them in the educational. Place. ~And so ~have a conversation with your team ~still, ~even if it's just you [00:36:00] seeing at home, to ~still at least ~see if they're seeing something similar and it's worth ~them ~approaching to see if they need services, ~but ~it doesn't sound like it's a bad thing if you need to go seek speech outside of the school. Because ~it's, ~it's impacting them differently. It's not an educational impact. ~And so ~I think it's ~just really ~important for us to. Say like the school's not supporting your child. This is the requirements for speech within the school and speech outside. ~'Cause ~I think sometimes parents don't feel supported ~when that is a case.~ ~'cause that's across the board for all occupations I think. ~ Cindy: ~Yeah. ~And I think that's kind of a blurry line in parents' heads as to why is it different? 'cause a speech language pathologist is a speech language pathologist, right. Meredith: ~Do you help with? That's a great eating at home too. ~Do you help with ~like ~feeding ~and stuff ~at school too, or is that ~like a ~occupational. Like Cindy: eating that one is OT will look at the getting the food to the mouth~ really ~in the educational setting. ~And I'll let Annika put her thoughts into this. Yeah. ~But we really don't have the right instrumentation ~to tell. ~What's going wrong with a swallow, we can have ~some ~observations of [00:37:00] gurgly speech or coughing or choking. Usually what I do is get the nurses involved because that's more medical. We would need to have a modified barium swallow study done to see where ~the, ~the swallow is breaking down. And as much as I ask the directors, ~they, ~they're not willing to buy that for me. ~And so,~ Meredith: okay, so that would ~just ~be ~like another, like ~that's more medical then it sounds like. Annika: ~Okay. Yes. Yeah. So ~that's a brilliant example of where speech is in the medical realm as opposed into the educational realm. ~And yes, ~we could go round and round and talk about how you have to. Be nourished to be a good learner. ~Right. ~And this school will accommodate for, and we will work with any parameters of said swallow studies ~or acco ~or food ~adapt ~adaptations or whatever it is. But~ in order to, we're, we are ~not treating those we are simply making accommodations for what already exists for a student. Meredith: Awesome. Cindy: Yeah. And voice falls under that same realm. Where a lot of times in the school setting looking at vocal quality, we really are going [00:38:00] to look at vocal hygiene and rest and accommodating, making sure they're close ~and things like that.~ But we ~again, ~don't have the right instrumentation to know if their vocal folds are doing what they're supposed to or if there's something else going on there that's more medical. Meredith: Okay, so closing thought. Do you have any, have Cindy: ~we ~blown your mind? Meredith: Yeah, ~like, yeah, 'cause like, you know, ~occupational therapy, it made sense and then I was like, speech is speech. Like obviously they're gonna do everything that my speech therapist is doing outside of school, but No. ~So you, no, but ~ Annika: ~no. And but Meredith that's such a good point though. ~So many of our families do have private providers and we do love to partner with the providers, but we are looking at the same child through different lenses. ~Mm-hmm. And so that's just an important point to remember that ~a speech pathologist ~will, ~will want to work with a private provider, but it might not be identical because the educational environment isn't the same as the home or the community environment. ~And so ~similar, I like to say aligned. We are rowing the boat in the same direction. ~But it might not be identical.~ Meredith: I like that you said that ~very well. ~Thank you. You're very speech languagey, ~so Aw, ~ ~You are, and you have such great energy too. I love it. ~Closing thoughts. What advice can you provide parents who [00:39:00] are wanting to work more with their kids? ~In this, I don't know. Sorry, let me think of that. Better closing thoughts with. ~Advice do you have for parents who wanna help assist their children with speech? Cindy: ~Oh gosh. ~My first line of defense is always. Talk to 'em. Model language, ~provide a rich language environment. ~Take 'em lots of places, talk about what you're doing. Read books to them. Go to the library, ~even if they're older, do those things. Just ~be there, ~be a part, ~be actively involved in their lives. Help them figure out how to read recipes and ~to ~write lists. ~And just all of ~those little things ~are really going to ~provide that foundation. As a kid growing up, my parents were both educators and we stopped at every museum, anywhere we went and every visitor center. ~And ~I swore I would never do that to my children. ~And ~then I grew up and I went to school to be speech, and ~I did, ~I realized that my parents were just being good parents and ~so I, ~I did the same with my kids, but that's my thing. Annika, what do you think? Annika: ~I mean, ~you nailed it, Cindy. ~So it is all about ~we learn language by hearing good language and by practicing with our language. ~So ~in ~whatever, and wherever and ~as many contexts as possible that is [00:40:00] exactly what the advice is. ~And you know, ~I always say that ~if, ~if your kid asks you a question and you don't know the answer, the answer isn't, I don't know. The answer is, let's figure it out together. Because there's so much to be learned~ in those places and spaces ~and our kids are just little sponges ~and.~ We ~literally ~rewire their brains by these connections ~that we have ~in our relationships ~and, ~and the things that we do with them ~and, ~and how we talk to them. So the more, the better. ~And we continue to go through. And if you don't know, ~if you have questions, ~ask the question. ~Ask someone who does know, find some support ~either with well.~ ~Carefully with other parents on the internet but, but ~with an SLP or with counselors for older students or with your child's teacher, with your child's childcare provider, ~just ~ask the questions. And if you ~continue to ~have that lingering ~kind of ~gut feeling ~in there ~that something might not be quite right, ask the questions. ~Yeah. Also, I do wanna say one more thing. Yes. ~If you are a family who speaks more than one language in your home, ~please ~keep speaking ~both, ~all the languages to your child. It is such a gift to be a multilingual learner and there's no evidence that says that learning one language makes you worse ~or poor ~at any other language. So [00:41:00] even if your child's struggling to learn language, speak all the languages because all language is equal language. Cindy: ~I like that. I wanna reiterate that. Yes, we love that. ~We love our ML kids and we want them to embrace that language and culture in all of the languages. Meredith: Do you ladies have anything else that you wanna share that you think is super important, relevant that you wanted to make sure you captured? Cindy: ~So the one thing ~I wanna make sure that parents know is that we really do have big hearts. We ~really truly ~want ~to partner and ~to help support their kids in any way that we can with our educational lens. Annika: ~Yep. We're here, ~we're here to have great conversations. We love kids. ~We love what we do. ~Speech language is the coolest field ever. ~And ~most speech paths know all the same things that Cindy and I talked~ with and ~about. And what we didn't ~even really ~touch on ~wholly ~is what we can do in literacy too. ~Yeah. So but I think that ~communication is such a gift. ~And. If, ~if you're wondering about it for your student or for your child, ask the question. Meredith: Be sure to [00:42:00] check the show notes for any resources that have been mentioned. You can also learn more about DCSEAC on our social media or go to our webpage, DCSEAC.org. If you like this podcast, please like, share, follow, and let other parents know about us. We're just trying to get conversations out there. If you have any suggestions, definitely let us know on those social medias, or even at info@dcseac.org, that's our email. We're really excited. We have lots of conversations that are coming up. So until next time, BYE.