Let's Talk About Transitions: Part One - PreK through Middle School
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[00:00:00] 

Aleia Mastroianni: Hi everyone and welcome back to SpecialEd, IEPs, 504s, Oh my: Conversations with DCSEAC. In today's episode, we're talking about something that so many of our families experience and we all basically lose sleep over it. School transitions for our students with special needs. Moving from one school to another can bring up a lot of questions and worries and fears.

Will the new team understand my kiddo, will the support stay in place? What if things change? These transitions can feel emotional and overwhelming even when they're a positive step forward. Because this topic is so important and because our conversation was so full of valuable information, we decided to split it into two separate episodes.

In today's episode, part one, we're focusing on the earlier transitions, moving from pre-K to elementary school and from elementary school to middle school. We'll be sharing our own stories as parents, the anxieties we felt, what surprised us, and practical tips that helped us along the way. Part two will air next week and we'll continue the conversation, but we'll be talking about the transitions from [00:01:00] middle school to high school and high school into Bridge programming.

And we'll also touch on that really big transition out of the public school system and into adulthood. Our goal with both episodes is to help families feel more prepared, less alone, and a little more confident as they navigate these big milestones with their children. So let's get into it.

Hi everyone. Welcome back to another SpecialEd, IEPs, 504s, Oh my: Conversations with DCSEAC. I'm your host, Aleia Mastroianni I'm so happy that today I'm being joined by two of our other board members, Kelly and Meredith.

Hi Kelly. 

Kelly Mayr: Hi. Thanks for having me. I'm Kelly Mayr and I am also in DCSEAC and my role is a liaison to other committees. 

Aleia Mastroianni: And hi Meredith. 

Meredith Daly: Hey guys. Yep. I'm the other co-host of the podcast. 

Aleia Mastroianni: We're excited. Today is a little bit different than some of our more recent podcasts. Rather than having a guest come in, the three of us are gonna chat, parent [00:02:00] to parent on school transitions.

This is a stressful time for every parent. Regardless of what programming your child may be in, this is something that our stomach churns about. Let's normalize that. It's very normal to feel anxious about it, but then it can be even more anxiety driving when we're talking about special needs and IEPs and new schools.

I know that at every single transition I've been through I've been nervous, even though I know that it's gonna be okay. So we wanted to share tips and tricks on how to transition between each level of schooling.

So let's get into it. Kelly, let me ask you, because you have so many children in our district. 

Kelly Mayr: I do. 

Aleia Mastroianni: I'm sure you've been through this many a time. Tell me a little bit about how school transitions has been for you. 

Kelly Mayr: So I have nine children and the vast majority of them have been on IEPs or 504s or even ALPs.

And transitions are very stressful each time, honestly. I think if we go in order of the transitions the transition from preschool to kindergarten was [00:03:00] definitely very stressful for me. Think for some people, if you have a child in a center-based program, you go from preschool, which is with their typical peers.

And then they start talking about center-based programs and maybe as a parent, you don't know what that is. 

Meredith Daly: Mm-hmm. 

Kelly Mayr: And you don't know what that looks like. And you're thinking, wait, is my kid gonna be in a separate room separate from all the friends they made in preschool, even if we stay in the same building?

So I think that's a stressful time. And then when you have students in mild, moderate, what I was being told in preschool was developmentally appropriate, right? Mm-hmm. That these are things kids at the age of five should be doing. And then I went to the kindergarten night and they handed me a list of things that my kid was, you know, would be helpful if they knew how to do, like tie their shoes and write their names and know their address and know their alphabet.

I was like, wait, because there was kind of a big disconnect. In fact, I took the list to the preschool team and said, so just so you know, when we go to the kindergarten meeting, this is what's being handed [00:04:00] out. And they did not know that. And this was in the same building, just right across the hall.

So that was an interesting conversation to have. 

Aleia Mastroianni: I have a sort of interesting, similar but opposite.

We were in a preschool, it was a high needs preschool classroom, but was also with gen ed peers. And at that time I had no idea what centers were. I thought my daughter's gonna go from preschool to a regular kindergarten class and I was terrified.

I could see her skills and I didn't know that, that she could transfer over to an SSN classroom. And honestly it was maybe two days before the end of preschool that they were like, " Oh no. You're, you don't have to suddenly exist", which our mild mod kids do! 

Kelly Mayr: They do. 

Aleia Mastroianni: Yes, they have to go and manage in, but I, it was like so relieving and I wish I'd known because there was so much anxiety about exactly that, looking at what a typical kindergarten classroom looks like. 

Meredith, what did you experience? 

Meredith Daly: So I think I had kind of a different experience. We actually did a transition meeting with both [00:05:00] SSN and Mild /Mod. They really did a great job explaining the difference between the SSN and then what he would be getting in the Mild /Mod And so I think I had a pretty good one, but I also had the most amazing SSN teacher at the elementary school. The school was just very proactive in that. And so I think, unfortunately it's not gonna be like that at every school, but we had a really positive experience attending the kindergarten meeting.

Aleia Mastroianni: That's a fantastic model. The fact that you got to meet with SSN and Mild Mod and they explained the difference. That's way more than I've heard anyone else had. I am very impressed with that.

Meredith Daly: I think it's because he was like that borderline IQ, right? . And so I think it was like that being the case now, the transition from SSN into Mild Mod has been a disaster ever since.

Aleia Mastroianni: Oh no. 

Meredith Daly: So, so you know, but just all that support going into kindergarten was like, amazing. And we held him back in kindergarten again, 'cause he had a really awful kindie class.

Kelly Mayr: which is also something that I've heard a lot in the community that parents are told they can't do.

Meredith Daly: Mm-hmm. 

Kelly Mayr: Because it's an [00:06:00] administrative decision, so it's up to the principal. Myself, I had a young son, he was August and they said if I tried to keep him in preschool, that he would lose all his services. So I did actually for him, opt to lose all his services and we went to a private preschool for an extra year and that was the best decision for that child.

But that can be a very difficult thing. So I don't want to set the expectation to parents that's easy to get accomplished. 

Meredith Daly: Yeah. Well, like it was kindergarten, same thing. They're like red shirt, he's August birthday as well.

Kelly Mayr: No I think it's actually an important conversation to have because a lot of parents, because they don't wanna give up services, will send them to kindergarten and then fully expect they'll be able to hold them back there and then they're told no.

Aleia Mastroianni: I was gonna say for our listeners, because it is something that comes up quite a bit, and because our kids have special needs, we are often talking about delays and things that make it feel like they're not ready to go up to the next level.

And if you're having those thoughts within your family [00:07:00] and with your school team talking about what is the benefit of retention? What are my choices? Because the school system almost always does not want to retain kiddos and they're going to tell you things. They're gonna say, "Hey, you're gonna miss Bridge", which is the 18 to 21. And 

Kelly Mayr: that is what I was told. 

Aleia Mastroianni: There are some scare tactics, I think, that are used and 

Kelly Mayr: Yeah, and it really depends on the principal. And so when they told me exactly what Aleia said, they said, " Oh, but you'd miss out on Bridge." Now, my child was nine at the time. I was like, Bridge? So of course I immediately set up an appointment to go see Bridge. And the principal of Bridge was like, "what high school does your child attend?" And I said, "well, my daughter's in elementary." She's like, "why are you here?" And I said, "well, if you're gonna bring it up at my IEP meeting, then I'm gonna find out all about it."

And so, and again, I did end up holding my daughter back, which is quite unusual, especially in the SSN program. She had very unique circumstances. She came from an orphanage and she did not have access to education for many years. So the principal agreed, but I don't wanna minimize the [00:08:00] difficulty of getting that accomplished.

Now if you have a student who is in the mild, moderate program receiving, speech or things like that, and you choose as a parent to go to a private preschool, just know that when you come back to the school, you can request an assessment. And it will kind of start the whole process over.

And they may or may not qualify, but for my particular situation, the benefit of time was the best thing I could give to my son. He is an adult now. I still stand by that decision. I had an opportunity with the next kid and I didn't hold her back 'cause I succumbed to pressure where they said no, she'll be bored and all these things.

And I will say that wasn't the right decision. And that did follow her through her career. Like she graduated at 17. So when you're making these decisions with our little tiny itty bitties it is hard to think ahead of puberty and driving and graduation. And whether they're the youngest or the oldest.

These are hard discussions and we understand as parents, we don't know, right. We're just making the best decisions with the information we have at the time. 

Aleia Mastroianni: I'm [00:09:00] glad that we're bringing it up. If you guys have further questions or worries or wonders, because it certainly comes up, especially around preschool, should I retain, should I not, and then not always being sure that the information your school is giving you is 100% focused on what's best for my child and my family?

Kelly Mayr: Yes. 

Aleia Mastroianni: Know that it is not an easy path. You need to be open to different viewpoints. But in the end, you know your child. 

Kelly Mayr: Yes. 

Aleia Mastroianni: You know your family. And in the end always trust your instincts.

Kelly Mayr: And I would recommend doing what I did. If they're bringing up Bridge and saying, you'll give up a year of Bridge, which is valid, Bridge is amazing. And that is valid. Go check it out. I think it's part of the grieving process as well. And some of us who have children with special needs when they're little, because they're called developmentally delayed.

I thought that meant my child would catch up. 

Aleia Mastroianni: Yeah. 

Kelly Mayr: And so if I gave them more time, they would be fine. And that is not always the case. If my child has more of a significant disability, as some of mine do that disability doesn't [00:10:00] go away over time. And the delay is kind of, a confusing label to have, and that is a preschool label that usually goes away by the age of eight.

That's a time where I grieved. You know, that maybe there was more going on than just a simple speech delay, maybe had an intellectual disability. These are hard things for parents to go through. And these transitions seem to really highlight those kinds of things. And I know that the professionals maybe knew before I did. 

Aleia Mastroianni: Yeah. 

Kelly Mayr: I agree with what you said, Aleia, we have to make sure we're individualizing it to our student and our child and what their unique circumstances are. And always we remind parents that they are a member of the special education team. A very valuable member. And so don't be afraid to speak up. 

Aleia Mastroianni: As we're focusing on the preschool transition right now I like the bringing up of the global developmental delay, or GDD is one you might see. Because your kiddo's still young. They're young, we don't know.

The staff doesn't necessarily know. So many of the behaviors still fit into the realm of typical behaviors. Somewhere in that [00:11:00] spectrum. 

We're trying to make the best decision about something that we don't know yet. Global developmental delay does sound like a delay, but that is often a precursor to when, like Kelly said, when they're about eight, is when we can start applying intellectual disability as a disability label.

And that's not something that goes away. These are things that, you can make a lot of growth in those areas. And you can also make growth with an intellectual disability for sure. But it's a, it is still a forever, 

Kelly Mayr: It's a lifelong disability.

Aleia Mastroianni: Yes. We're about to move out of preschool transitions, but one thing we wanna highlight and we'll highlight at every level is that, previously, it used to be standard practice to have what was called a transition meeting. So first you'd have your IEP meeting where you get together, you make goals, you plans, things like that.

And then you would also automatically have a transition meeting where the two teams from each school would get together. So your pre-K staff and your elementary staff would get together. You would have a sort of a handoff meeting. Very useful, a good time to build relationships.

Our district has moved away from that being standard practice that they are not automatically applied [00:12:00] and scheduled. So we wanna make sure to let parents know you are definitely allowed to ask for a transition meeting. And I think that the school sites are so used to them that it's not out of pocket to them.

They don't think that this is an insane ask. You just say, Hey, you know, let's do this IEP meeting. We also like to have a transition meeting. And what's nice about the transition meetings, they're less focused on the very specific amounts of information that need to be covered within an IEP meeting. The IEP meeting also has to have a huge amount of staff there, by law, that has to be there. They're taking time away from their classrooms or duties to be there. A transition meeting is much more informal. You can talk more about the specifics of your kiddo and, hey, here's how this works, and that works. Rather than the cold hard, Okay. "we gotta get through all this IEP information." So if you're able, I encourage you to ask for one. It's a another touch point for relationship building, which in the end is, I think what matters most.

Kelly Mayr: So, having been in the [00:13:00] district for a few decades, this was standard. And then when it wasn't being offered, I did ask the question why. I was told that there was some litigation. We'll get into this a little bit more as we transition from elementary to middle, that the minutes, the special education minutes change quite a bit.

Because the way the classes are structured and the format is just very different. And this can be very concerning to parents because they feel my child's disability didn't change. How come it went from 360 minutes a month to 180? And things like that. So what I heard was there was some litigation around that.

And so then the district decided not to do transition meetings, which I thought was a weird way to manage that. But I've been told, you know, all the way up the chain of command and special education that well, you can always request one, which is something I know, but, uh, I think that is a bit of a barrier to access because there are parents they don't know that, or they're just overwhelmed trying to get through their days and to put one more thing on them, feels not great. And I've heard frustration from [00:14:00] teams that say, well, I don't even know what happens, say at the middle school. And so as a teacher, they would like 

Aleia Mastroianni: Yes. 

Kelly Mayr: To go over and especially if they're new to our district, like what does the building look like?

Is there a sensory room? They don't know these things. So, I don't know if that's something that will come back, but we are using our voice to really encourage parents to ask for these and to really advocate for that. It's powerful and necessary and it certainly eases my mind every time.

Aleia Mastroianni: I think a misunderstanding on why the hours change, and there's a very real reason why the hours change, I think that in my humble opinion, we should just do a better job of educating parents saying, Hey, let me tell you why. And sort of this podcast, why do the minutes change? Because elementary school is vastly different than high school. So course the way we deliver special education is very different. I think that it's worth taking the time to educate families.

I like Kelly, that you brought up wanting also to build those relationships between the feeder sites that we do have staff that changes all the time. I'm really lucky [00:15:00] that I, right now my daughter's transitioning from middle to high and the two teachers, two SSN teachers know each other really well.

They're really friendly. They communicate a lot. So I'm like, oh, this is so wonderful. But that's not always the case or you have a new teacher. Or you are coming from a different district or things like that.

Kelly Mayr: Well, and Meredith has a unique opportunity right now that it's not a typical transition, but transition nonetheless. 

Meredith Daly: I was also gonna bring up like the middle school concern, right? Like fifth graders are gonna go in middle school next year, and I don't even know if the schools know what that caseload's gonna look like.

And so if parents were to request these transition meetings. Do they know who's covering that? So that's also a logistic thing and it's new to the district. I think we give a little grace on that. But I can definitely see those Highlands Ranch schools that are fifth grade next year, sixth grade going into middle school, that just being kind of bonkers. And they would be like, well do the best we can, but they don't know what that looks like, either. 

Kelly Mayr: They don't, but they are telling me, 'cause I have a fifth grader on an IEP, and of course I requested a transition meeting. [00:16:00] And I did run into the chair of the department at one of the information nights and she said, I haven't forgotten.

I'm working on it. And you're right Meredith, they are trying to figure things out. And so I'm having lots of grace because absorbing an entire grade level that has never been up there before, can be a little tricky. And transition meetings typically happen towards the end of the year.

Like that is something that you see in April and May. 

Aleia Mastroianni: What Kelly and Meredith are talking about is up in Highlands Ranch we have schools that are consolidating. So we have three schools that are closing and consolidating into three other schools.

And we also have sixth grade moving out of elementary school and moving up to middle school. And so beyond just the normal transitions,

Kelly Mayr: So many transitions, 

Aleia Mastroianni: If you've been aware of what's happening in our district, this has been talked about and it's big and emotional for all of our communities.

And extra concerning and emotional for our kiddos that are in special education as well. 

Kelly Mayr: So Meredith, do you have any unique insight about how are you as a parent of someone [00:17:00] on an IEP, what is that transition looking like? 

Meredith Daly: Right. I'm luckily on the parent transition team with the school.

So I'm the school that's closing and I'm bringing it to light, like, Hey, I know we might not know caseloads yet. Can, are you, when are you guys gonna know that? I know they were waiting for open enrollment and kind of seeing those numbers and what that looks like. And so I have been talking to like my special education staff and the principal.

It's like, parents might want these transition meetings, building's brand new. It's a unique situation. And so they're admitting like, they're not sure what those caseloads look like. So I'm encouraging them to like, as soon as you guys know. I'm gonna be requesting a meeting. So just having open communication with my special education staff, the principal.

But they don't know. They don't know yet. They just got the grades and so they're just figuring out those numbers. So it still seems a little early. And my IEP meeting is next week. I'm gonna have to request another one, probably ongoing. Definitely going to be going put it [00:18:00] in the IEP this year. Put it in the IEP. If it changes. 

Aleia Mastroianni: I'm telling you though, Meredith, a hundred percent.

I'm like, you don't realize how much you're doing. And I know it's annoying to document everything, but I'm like, but what this document isn't showing yet is how much you do do. Mm-hmm. to keep this child regulated. And I'm like, I want. That to be obvious to everybody, I want this document to be an actual representation. This is not aspirational. This is not, 

Kelly Mayr: I like that. I need anybody to be able to pick up that document and implement it. And because we know there's a lot of turnover in special education, and if it's not written in a way that someone who doesn't know my child or doesn't know them well, can't pick it up and implement it, we have a problem. 

Meredith Daly: Exactly. That's my concern. Right. Yeah. They're using a speech to text device my son, it's not in his IEP. And I'm like, we're going to a new school. No one's going to know.

Aleia Mastroianni: So for our listeners and parents, a little tip and trick that we've learned at those transition meetings, make [00:19:00] sure that your team, especially if you're going from like elementary, where they've worked with your child for such a long time, they know them so well, and I promise you there's a million things they're doing to accommodate and support your kiddo.

But often those don't necessarily show up in the IEP, they're just things that are happening in the school site. As parents, we're like, Hey, can we please document that? Can we please show that in the IEP? Because the goal is that the new teacher getting this IEP has a really good representation of who your kiddo is, but also the, all the things that have been put in place to help them be successful.

Like Kelly said, someone who doesn't know your kiddo should be able to pick it up, see it and say, okay, this is a really good map for how to help support this kiddo. So don't be afraid to say, can we beef this up a little bit? Can we mention that you also do this and this?

And there's places in the parent input section. There's places in the accommodation. Current levels is another area. A personal tip, I have found success in saying could I write a little paragraph? If you feel like it's good, you can copy paste it in there. 

Kelly Mayr: Parents actually are always allowed to do that. You can do an entire letter [00:20:00] about your child. In fact a lot of special education advocates and professionals think that is an incredibly important thing to do. You can talk about their history or you can talk about what works for them or you can talk about successes you've had. But I would encourage all parents to do that. 

Aleia Mastroianni: All right. Bing. Learning moment for me right now. I didn't know this was like, something that you absolutely could just say, Hey, copy paste this into the IEP, please.

Kelly Mayr: Well, I can't remember parent perspective. I can't remember. There's a name for it. 

Aleia Mastroianni: Parent input I think is possibly the section. 

Kelly Mayr: Yes. And so, I would encourage everybody to do that. You certainly know your child better than anybody else on the team.

Meredith Daly: Right. Because they're always like strengths focused and you know, that's their mindset. But sometimes I'm just like, be real. So yeah, that's a great advice. Like, like this is the real picture. Like yes, they have their strengths, but also they have all these other things.

Aleia Mastroianni: And sometimes when you let the team know that, because they can feel a little uncomfortable 'cause they don't know how you're gonna feel about it. But I let the team know, Hey, cold hard facts. I want this to be a real representation of what my kiddo looks like. I use that document with her doctors. I use that with Developmental [00:21:00] Pathways. It actually becomes a paper trail that I've had since preschool. So that when I'm trying to apply for services, when she's an adult, I have documentation. 

Kelly Mayr: And that becomes very important. And we'll touch on that later in the podcast as we transition to adulthood. But that stuff is really important.

It's difficult. You don't want, but you really don't wanna sugarcoat it for lots of reasons. 

Aleia Mastroianni: I found the best way about it is to let your team know so that they know , I want this to be very real. So they feel less inhibited about, am I gonna hurt feelings, or do I need to, dance around this a little bit?

Because every parent's different. But for me, I want it to be very real. 

Kelly Mayr: As the kids get older, it's a little easier to have that honest conversation. When your kids are transitioning from the preschool to elementary or even just from year to year in early elementary.

Sometimes parents aren't ready. 

Right. Sometimes staff's not ready. Over time I think it's a little bit easier to say Yes, I know my kid is really sweet. Thank you. Can we move into the nitty gritty of what needs to happen?

Aleia Mastroianni: That's a great transition.

I'm gonna pull us out of transitioning from pre-K into [00:22:00] elementary and jump us forward. And we're gonna look at that next big transition, which is coming out of elementary into middle school. And there's so many things to think about and that might change. And I'm gonna start with the first one: when your children are transitioning from pre-K into elementary, there's still a lot of unknowns. Where are we gonna fall? How are you gonna respond? Your disabilities might show up or present differently. Often by the end of elementary school, very frequently, you'll have a better idea of the level of impact or the level that your disability is going to impact your education. Also if you have something like an intellectual disability or a more severe disability, by the time you get to the end of elementary school, the content that's being covered in your core gen ed classes is very quickly separating from that student's ability. For example, I have a daughter in SSN, and that's for significant support needs.

So in kindergarten and first grade, she was able to spend more time in her gen ed classroom because they were going over the alphabet or beginning reading or things that [00:23:00] she was able to participate in more. By the end of fifth grade, it would've been a disservice to her to have her body sitting in a general education classroom for no purpose other than her sitting in there. It was a much better use of her time for her to be educated in her SSN classroom where the content could be at the level she was able to get. So when you're doing this transition depending on if they're in a center program, if they're not, we might start to see a bigger divergence from, Hey, I'm in gen ed most of the time, possibly you'll be in your center. You might have more pullouts, or you might have the exact opposite. Maybe your kiddo has improved so dramatically throughout elementary school that you might be looking for more general education inclusion. And then to add on top of all of it, usually by middle school we're switching into moving through different periods.

We're not in a single classroom, we're moving all around the school. So, lemme start with Meredith. Have you gone to a middle school transition yet, or are your kiddos too young?

Meredith Daly: They're still young, but I've heard from a lot of parents, all this anxiety about going into middle school, even the parents that don't have kids on [00:24:00] the IEPs. Just like that independence piece is huge. And I think that's the biggest struggle that I've heard is that expectation that the kid is responsible for themselves and there's less contact with the parents. And I think that's a shocker once they're in middle school, because if you have a mild, moderate kid, I think that expectation's still gonna be independence. But also Kelly's brought up in previous podcasts, what pillars have you set up to support my child to be that independent?

And so I'm gonna let Kelly segue into her amazing discussion on this because she has great advice.

Kelly Mayr: I have done this many times. Yes, it is a scary transition, right? Every time. And I encourage parents visit the school as much as possible. Luckily now a lot of the middle schools have coffees with the principal.

The more you can get your body into the building, it's helpful. The way the service model, as Aleia said, changes in our mild, moderate populations. We have pull out classes. We also have team taught classes [00:25:00] where there is a special educator and a general education teacher in the classroom at the same time.

And there are students on IEPs in the classroom and there are lots of students without IEPs in the classroom. And then there's center-based programs and in the center based program typically you might be included in general education for science and social studies and specials if that works for your student.

And never be afraid to assert that my child benefits from this or that. It is the I in IEP is individual, so we never wanna lose sight of that. When they say to you, as Meredith pointed out that your child needs to advocate for themselves. Your child needs to be independent and communicate with the teacher themselves.

My response is typically, " awesome, how have we worked on those skills for my child?" What is the school doing to support the scaffolding necessary for my child to acquire those skills? And again, we're gonna do this in a nice way and we're working with teams, but don't let them shut you down.

It is a very different experience having had kids in all [00:26:00] different levels of programming in our district. I used to have a lot more interaction with, say, the educational assistant that worked with my daughter in her SSN program. You go to middle school, there are many educational assistants and you don't really have any interaction with them.

If you utilize transportation you don't see them. And so it does take a little bit more for the parent. Reach out more, but don't take the blanket answer, " oh, they just need to advocate for themselves." Especially, I think as Meredith pointed out before that, as we're transitioning fifth graders into middle school, this can be a pretty big adjustment.

Aleia Mastroianni: I love that you're talking about that, Kelly, because I know that even our typical kiddos, one of the big goals that they have for middle school is for the students to start taking over responsibility, or they like to call it executive functioning, or giving them planners, and a lot of kids struggle. All of a sudden for the parents, and this is still talking about gen ed we go from a huge amount of communication to it purposely being less, maybe dramatically too quickly, less. So [00:27:00] with that being a focus for middle school, and then let's try and apply that concept to our students who have special needs.

And this probably less applies to our center-based classroom, but profoundly affects our mild mod kiddos who are trying to exist in these gen ed classrooms. And all of a sudden having these expectations for executive functioning, which falls right into the realm of their disability.

You should as a parent go in and say, Hey, I love that we're gonna have this expectation. But how are we supporting it? How are we 

Kelly Mayr: Teaching it? How are we teaching it? How are we preparing the student for that expectation? I mean, these are life skills and we want all our kids to have them. And so encouraging your student to email the teacher first. It's a mixed bag for whether you'll get a response or not. It's everybody's their own person. And as you go into middle school and high school, you have a lot of different teachers working with your student.

And some of them are great and they put things right into that grade book super fast, and you can see 'em. Some, wait more towards the end of the quarter this semester and you think we're doing great and then we crash and burn. So it is a learning [00:28:00] curve for parents and students together. And it's okay, especially if you have the protection of an IEP or a 504 to really say, Hey, I feel like my son or daughter is lacking these skills and what can we do as a team to build those skills up so that we are successful. Another thing I get from parents a lot is my kid really needs a study hall and I agree.

That'd be amazing. They don't exist in our district. Every class period has to have a curriculum attached to it in order to get credit for it. So there is not this study hall time. The high schools are building in some things late starts and things that you do have time to go meet with teachers twice a week. 

Aleia Mastroianni: Or sometimes homeroom, but there's still curriculum in homeroom. 

Kelly Mayr: There's curriculum homeroom now, so I know. So it's tricky. It's tricky to navigate. There are some tricks and as we get to high school, we'll talk about those, but middle school I think is the first time where boy, for parents, it's a big difference. Especially if you went to preschool in the same location as your elementary school you were there for seven years, most of these kids. That's a really long time. And now you're going to something new and it's different. [00:29:00] And understanding again, at your IEP meeting, the year before you transition, we would encourage you to request a transition meeting, ask what model do they feel is gonna be the best fit for my kiddo? Is it gonna be something where they are pulled out and go to a separate classroom to do strategies curriculum? Is it going to be a team taught model? Where there's two teachers. Right. Like my concern this year is as my fifth grader transitions, and he has autism and ADHD he utilizes the sensory room in his elementary school every day. He doesn't have to earn it. It is predictable. Same time every day. Well, is there a sensory room in middle school? I don't think so. 

Aleia Mastroianni: Maybe in the SSN classroom, but then is he allowed? 

Kelly Mayr: Probably not. Site specific. My daughter told me, having gone through there, there is a chill room. And which I didn't know. Yeah. Right. So it's good as parents to ask questions and she said there's a chill room. So is it a sensory specific room? Doesn't sound like it, but is it a chill room? Now, sometimes our people do better in middle school 'cause [00:30:00] getting up and walking after each class period is actually kind of regulating for some. 

Aleia Mastroianni: Like me, our ADHD-ers, let's represent. Mm-hmm. Being able to get up is nice. 

Kelly Mayr: Exactly. So, sometimes kids do better in that environment. so, we're not looking for trouble. We're just setting them up for success. 

Aleia Mastroianni: I like how you said that the sensory room is, I like to call it a need not a reward. 

Kelly Mayr: Yes. 

Aleia Mastroianni: And there's some things that my daughter needs that we were careful to write.

Like she needs someone to script back and forth with her, and if they don't, her behavior will escalate really quickly. Actually, it was one of our previous podcasts when we talked with Tanya Anglemyer about behaviors and we talked about needs that sometimes look like the adult is giving in to the child. And we're like, Nope, this is a need to get us back to that regulated space. And I feel like our IEPs represent that. They're like, this is what is needed. This is not a, maybe this isn't, oh, if it's, everything works out if we find the right staffing, we're like, Nope, this is a need. And moving into middle school, a couple of things I've [00:31:00] heard is sometimes when we ask for a daily activity from a general education teacher, I've heard some pushback on that where they're like, well, I can't sign their agenda every day. I can't.

To talk with your team, is this helping, is there a way that we can make this feasible with the teacher? But you are not the only mild mod student in that classroom. They are supporting many students on IEPs and 504s.

One of the ways I think they soften the transition to middle school is they work in what they call pods. And so you'll join a pod, rather than just going into the population of that middle school they usually with the same group of, I don't know, is it maybe 60 kids?

Kelly Mayr: I think it's about 120. But you do, you stay in a pod and you stay in one geographic area for everything but specials. It's supposed to be kind of like a school within a school. So it doesn't feel quite as overwhelming. So you're just walking across the hall from math to English or science.

It's a nice transition in, and then the next year you could be in a completely different pod. You could, the pods get mixed up every year, and that's kind of a good thing. 

Aleia Mastroianni: It's like a high school [00:32:00] light. It's intended to still give them that smaller feeling.

All of the kids they know in their pod have the same English teacher, the same science teacher, the same math teacher again, they're usually walking around just a little atrium area rather than the whole big campus. Except for their specials. And so when you are reaching out to the staff, their pod all knows each other.

They'll often send you newsletters from all the pod teachers to together. So parents know that is another little thing to help that transition.

Kelly Mayr: One thing we might wanna mention is that they will not change your pod. So if your best friend's not in there with you, you know, and your kid is crying and they're so sad. You know what, they're gonna work with them and work through it, but they are not gonna change your pod.

Aleia Mastroianni: Before we transitioned into high school, ' it sort of applies to both high school and middle school- something I've had to also embrace as a parent - allow that the system is there to try and help my child grow up as much as she is able. 

Kelly Mayr: Yes. 

Aleia Mastroianni: There are things that I can push as a parent where I'm like, Hey, this is absolutely critical.

We will not have a functional child without this. But also, letting my [00:33:00] normal mom heart that panics to take a breath and know that the educators who are there do this all the time. They're there to help transition our children. And to keep my mind open that the idea is also to build this independence.

But it is a fine line. And I almost feel like, especially if you had a fantastic elementary school, the time where you might have to be contacting the school or being a little more involved in advocating, especially if your child's in mild mod, is at that middle school level because suddenly your child's dealing with so many different teachers, with so many different expectations and so much more independence that's expected.

Kelly Mayr: And I would say some mistakes I have made as a parent are putting all sorts of supports in place, right?

I want extra time, I want preferential seating. I want 'em in the front of the class. I want them utilizing computers instead of writing. So I put all these things in place. And extended time for standardized testing. My children were angry because what happens if you put that into the IEP [00:34:00] is your child will be pulled into a separate location to take these standardized tests. It is typically with a whole group of other kids with often ADHD and autism, and they cannot leave until the extended time is over. So some of those things you have to think long and hard. We might say, I want their planner signed. And your child, who is now going through puberty, you know, awkward, middle school is always awkward. Is going, are you kidding me? You want me to go up to that teacher and have them sign it? Or you want that teacher coming over to my desk.

Aleia Mastroianni: And now everyone's staring at me.

Kelly Mayr: Exactly. I feel othered. So I think we have to be cognizant of they're part of this process too. And while we certainly want full supports in place, I have found my kids have the most success when they have buy-in. 

Aleia Mastroianni: So much. For our kids in mild mod, absolutely this is the point where they can start to be involved in the IEP. As we talk about high school, they actually want them to be there. I'll let you know, they don't have to be there the whole time. 'cause sometimes it's very hard to hear people talk [00:35:00] about all of your challenges all at once. So there is some flexibility there. But I agree Kelly, if starting to recognize them and their needs and asking them and if your child has chosen an accommodation, it's so much more valuable if they'll use it. If it something exactly they actually want. 

Kelly Mayr: Exactly.

Aleia Mastroianni: Hey parents. So we're gonna take a pause here and we are gonna save the rest of our conversation for next week. Thank you so much for joining us and spending time with us. We know that this is a big topic and it has a lot of emotions attached to it. We hope that today helped you feel a little bit more prepared, maybe a little less alone.

Make sure you join us next week for part two. We'll be keeping the conversation going, but we'll be talking about the transitions from middle school into high school, high school into bridge programming, and we're also gonna talk about that really big shift out of the public school system and into adulthood.

Lots of great information there. Until then, take care of yourself and we'll see you on the next one.