What is Center-Based Programming? === [00:00:00] dcseac_1_09-22-2025_100154: Have you ever wondered what center-based programming really means? In this episode, we're gonna sit down with special education teacher Laura Anglemeyer, and we're really gonna break it down: what are these centers, how do they support students? And really importantly, what is meaningful inclusion and why does it matter? If you've ever been confused about that term, center-based programs, this episode's for you Aleia Mastroianni: Welcome to another episode of SpecialEd, IEPs, 504s, Oh My: Conversations with DCSEAC. We are really excited because today we're going to talk about center-based programs. This is gonna be a large overview. We're not gonna get deep into the weeds. We're just gonna talk about what is it, what is this term? Why do we throw it around? What does it mean? How does it help kiddos? I am tickled pink because today joining us is Laura Anglemeyer and she is an SSN teacher at Sagewood Middle [00:01:00] School. She has been teaching for 31 years. All of those have been in special education. She has been at Sagewood Middle School for 26 years since it opened, right? Laura Anglemyer: Correct. Aleia Mastroianni: Awesome. So since forever. She was last year's winner of the Apple Award for Secondary Educator, which is huge honor. Super awesome, and so incredibly deserved. I'm so excited that we have Laura with us. Hi Laura. Laura Anglemyer: Well, hello. Aleia Mastroianni: Yay. I'm excited we're here and I appreciate you letting me take up some of your time to ask sort of a broad question just to help our parents understand. And for parents who haven't heard of this, don't worry about it. It's okay. I'll give a sort of broad overview of special education in our district. We have two big chunks: one is mild, moderate. That's gonna be the vast majority of our students and they're served in their general education classrooms. They might have pullouts, they might have an aide who comes in and supports them, [00:02:00] but for the majority of the time they are in their general education classroom. The other segment that serves students is what's called center-based programming, and that's why I brought Ms. Laura. How would you describe center-based programming? Laura Anglemyer: Center-based programming is where kids are placed in a program based on some sort of defining criteria. For example, my SSN background - they are the kids that are placed in the SSN program. I case manage my group of 13, 14 kids and I oversee their entire day in my room. I program for them and make sure all of their needs are met. Does that mean they're in my room all day? Absolutely not. They are out in the Gen Ed getting experiences out there, but they are center-based in the fact that I oversee a hundred [00:03:00] percent of their programming and making sure that each of their individual needs are met: whether that's behavioral, academic, some sort of a medical need. Anything that may encompass their needs throughout their day. There are also other self-contained programs in the district. Aleia Mastroianni: What are the other ones that we have? Or first, if you just say, what does SSN stand for? Laura Anglemyer: Oh, good point. Significant Support Needs. So those are for the kids with intellectual disabilities, cognitive delays, those type of things. Aleia Mastroianni: Yes. Laura Anglemyer: They would be in an SSN program. Aleia Mastroianni: That makes sense. What other center-based programs does our district have? Laura Anglemyer: Our district also has AN programs. Which stands for Affective Needs, and those kids have more, behavioral type needs, emotional needs. They need some more structure around that throughout their day. Aleia Mastroianni: So truth be told, first time I heard of Affective Needs, I had to look up the word affective. I was like, what does that even mean? And when I [00:04:00] looked up the definition, I'm like, oh, well that's a perfect description. I think it used to be called, was it called, it used to be social emotional? Laura Anglemyer: SED. Aleia Mastroianni: Yeah. Yeah. And I say there's another center-based program in Douglas County, but it's teeny tiny because it's just a pilot program. It's brand new. Do you know about this one? Laura Anglemyer: The one for kids with autism? Aleia Mastroianni: Yes. Yeah. So there's a whole, there's a new ASD center-based program. It's only in elementary schools right now. There's only four. The goal and the plan is to continue to pilot the program and it's been growing. Each year they add another school. We're not at middle school yet, which I'm really hopeful. Like Laura mentioned, each of these programs have really specific criteria to get into them. None of these are by choice or parent choice programs. Like, hi, I feel like my kid needs this level of support. Now, if you feel that way, you can have an IEP meeting and talk with your team and see, but each of 'em has a criteria. Laura already went over what some of those basic [00:05:00] criteria are that would have you placed in one of these programs and it would never happen. Without your knowledge? Laura Anglemyer: Oh, a hundred percent. No. Aleia Mastroianni: There's a lot of meetings, a lot of testing. And one of the reasons we're so serious about it is it is a restriction of our LRE. So there's another term you might hear thrown around a lot, and that stands for the least restrictive environment. Which is in IDEA, the Individuals with Disability Education Act. LRE is really important. It's something that all of our IEPs focus on and all of our teachers are super aware of. So what does that mean to you when you try and work, "LRE" into your SSN classroom? Laura Anglemyer: Yeah, we look at that at every IEP, how much we can get the kids out into the general education environment, as much as possible. And every kid in our room we look at obviously individually. Aleia Mastroianni: Yeah. Laura Anglemyer: And we get them out into GenEd content classes, if at all possible, [00:06:00] with, modifications. But we want that to be purposeful and meaningful. We want our students to be gaining something from that experience. We don't want them to not learning something, not gaining something from that. They also get to go out to elective classes and participate in whatever they're interested in. Choir, they go to PE, any of those classes that they're interested in. And we also do a little bit of reverse inclusion with some of those elective classes. We have GenEd kids sign up to take our class as peer partners and those GenEd kids come in and assist our kids by taking them into those elective classes and supporting them in those classes. Aleia Mastroianni: I do love the reverse inclusion that happens here at Sagewood. It's a really special program. It doesn't happen at every school, but it really highlights one of my deep core beliefs, that the inclusion of our students makes [00:07:00] everyone better. Not just our students, but also their GenEd peers. Laura Anglemyer: Oh, absolutely. I mean, our students, our kids, they grow up. They're gonna become adults. They're gonna be out in the community and everybody needs to know how to accept and to interact with people with disabilities. And so might as well start at this age. And I think if the GenEd kids are willing to interact with, with our kids and get to know them here, they're just gonna be better humans when they get to be older and when they come across somebody with disabilities, when they, they get to be adults. I've seen this in action where the little elementary school that my daughter went to Franktown, and now here at Sagewood, the kids have known her, her forever, and they're not phased at all by her behavior. And I love it. Like, it's normal to them. And they're kind and respectful, all of her peers. And it's been taught for sure , [00:08:00] from the school and the environment, which I love. But I've had an experience where I brought my daughter to a different school that didn't have a special needs program. It was a charter school and they didn't have severe needs. My daughter was doing her normal thing and making lots of sounds and whatnot. Eventually we had to leave a room 'cause we were too distracting and the children, there were not mean at all, but you could tell they were shocked and surprised by her behavior and they were looking more and they were curious and maybe a little uncomfortable, which I don't, I'm not, that's okay. It's okay to be uncomfortable, but it was a real life dichotomy it for me, right in front of my face to say, oh my goodness, look at the kids who've been exposed, or had the privilege of going to school with my daughter, didn't phase them at all. And it just, it was such an interesting lesson for me that hit my heart. Oh, that's the reason I have stayed at Sagewood for 26 years is because of the way the community, our [00:09:00] staff, our administration and our student population receive, accept, embrace our kids with disabilities. They've just always been welcome. And they accept them for who they are. I mean, we walk through the halls and, you know, they give 'em high fives and they talk to 'em, but. Your daughter can walk through the halls and you know, yell out or do one of her scripts and it's just, everybody knows that's, Aleia Mastroianni: It's just normal. Laura Anglemyer: It's just who she is. Aleia Mastroianni: It's for the benefit of everybody. In the end, it's what we all want our kids to be, which is kind and accepting. As a parent of a child who is very obviously disabled. I don't ever hold it against other kids. I'm like, of course you're surprised. Of course you are. She's surprising. What she's doing is odd and surprising. I've been very pleased, watching inclusion happen right in front of my face and seeing how beneficial it's been. It's been pretty awesome. Which segues pretty nicely into a little topic I wanna talk about that [00:10:00] could have its whole own podcast. It ties into our center-based programs, which is meaningful inclusion. So inclusion is a word that's thrown around all the time in special education. Inclusion. Inclusion. What does that mean? And I think, there's even been an overcorrect sometimes where they're like, well, if we're gonna include kids with disabilities or special needs, that means they should be in those GenEd classrooms as much as humanly possible. And as a younger parent, I remember thinking that when we were in elementary and being worried as I saw my daughter having less time in her GenEd classroom, but I don't think I understood at the time how the least restrictive environment or inclusion does change over her lifetime in school. What is the difference to you between inclusion and meaningful inclusion, and how do you guys try and implement that here? Laura Anglemyer: Meaningful inclusion to me is how much benefit are the SSN students and the GenEd students being in the [00:11:00] same classroom together? Are the SSN students gaining skills and gaining something from being in that environment? And are the General Ed students gaining something from the SSN student being in that environment? I selfishly like to have our SSN students in the SSN program to be working on their math, their reading, their writing, getting the skills that they need. Just like the General Ed kids are up in their classrooms, working on their grade level work. I want our kids down here getting their level work. Aleia Mastroianni: Because it's a little unfair, right? Isn't it? A little unfair to take, and again, families, we're talking about SSN right now, so these are profoundly impacted kiddos - to say, hey, for the sake of inclusion, I want you to sit in the Algebra One class. Laura Anglemyer: We're focused more on life skills and skills that kids are gonna need when they get out: shopping, working on dollar more skills, reading informational [00:12:00] text, making meaning from text, that kind of stuff. Not, you know, identifying all the countries, that kind of stuff. Aleia Mastroianni: Or let's dissect The Scarlet Letter and let's talk about cold fusion, something like that. Obviously if your kiddo is able to access that content, that is where they will be. But , it is also a disservice to a student to have them sit in a general education classroom that is so vastly beyond their capabilities that you are introducing potential for behaviors or backsliding or just feeling badly about themselves. Laura Anglemyer: Just wasting their time during their day when they could be getting valuable learning opportunities in the SSN room for the sake of just being around their general education peers, I think there's more ways to do that that would benefit them. Aleia Mastroianni: Like what are they gaining? I'll give you my short anecdote I had this lesson in elementary school when, [00:13:00] as we talk about the skill gap and it tends to grow, especially for our kids who are in SSN and have a cognitive disability. And I was asking our autism specialist, Peter, who's fantastic, who my daughter called Peter with green eyes. So that's the way I remember him. He was really kind and sat down and explained to the very anxious parent I was and, and said - Aleia, why would we have her sit in this math corner? She would be sitting there with nothing to do because she doesn't understand the content. She was essentially non-verbal at the time. We were working on keeping her clothes on and not yelling swear words, and she was just working at a very different level, and he taught me to ask what is, what is the purpose? Like what? What is the meaning? Of this inclusion, is it to literally just have her body be where general education bodies are, or should we use our time more wisely? And we did, we learned to say, hey when she's in her general education classroom, [00:14:00] we're working on staying in our seat, not yelling out, getting through several boxes of tasks. And she knew the exact amount of time she needed to be in there. And we had data that we could gather. We were looking and tracking how many times is she calling out, et cetera. And all of a sudden it became meaningful inclusion. And I learned that she gained more from her gen ed peers by going to recess and watching them. She loves to watch people and we could see her learning, whereas in her general education classroom, she just completely shut down or have huge scripting behaviors or things like that 'cause it was beyond her ability. Laura Anglemyer: Yeah. And the SSN room is able to provide the structures, the visuals. Not that you can't bring some of those into a GenEd classroom, but they're able to take the risks. They're able to maybe have some of the behaviors that they might need to have. They can take the sensory breaks, they're feel a little more free to fail. Aleia Mastroianni: Mm-hmm. You need [00:15:00] that. You need to, learning is vulnerable, right? Talk to me about forever peers. I love to talk to you about this. I bring it up all the time, but what do, what do they build here in this classroom? Laura Anglemyer: When they come to middle school we have sixth, seventh, and eighth grade here, and what I notice when they come to middle school, we have upwards to 20 some kids in our program, they finally have several kids their same age with similar abilities, and they finally have a group of true, true friends. They become friends. They start hanging out with each other on the weekends. They start doing multiple things outside of school. They get into the unified sports and they start having true peers, true friends for the first time, which is just fantastic. And I'm not saying they don't have friends in elementary school, but a lot of times when an elementary school might be K through six, there [00:16:00] might only be one other first grader, or one other fifth grader. And so they don't have as many kids their same, that age group. Aleia Mastroianni: And it's possible that those two first graders aren't gonna be super compatible. Sometimes, you know, their level of need or disability isn't super compatible, but you just have a greater variety here. And we talk about this a lot in a special needs mom group that I'm part of that has been magical for me. We've talked about the fact that a lot of our GenEd peers naturally move on. You know, the little kids who in fourth or fifth grade loved to play on the playground with our children have moved on and they should have, they've grown up. Their brain is doing different things. They're in clubs, they're in, things like that. And they'll go on to college and our kids are still here. I see the same kids at Unified, at Special Olympics, at all the different special needs events and as families we've been able to connect, the kids have been able to [00:17:00] connect, and these are their forever peers. They're real peers, and I've seen it beautifully here in middle school. And I love it. It's, this classroom is a safe, happy classroom and our kids have vastly different abilities in this classroom, and yet it works. Laura Anglemyer: They do. They understand each other. They understand the different needs in here. They're accepting and they're so cool together, and it's just amazing and I love to see them all go through here and then move on to high school together and just, they, they all talk about it. Well, when they get to high school, I'll make sure that everybody knows. That, you know, so and so needs this and so, and so needs that. And it's, it's just cool to see 'em make those connections and for the first time. Be excited about doing something with a friend, possibly outside of school or meeting them at the school dance or the school carnival. Aleia Mastroianni: People who aren't in our population don't understand that. It can be really [00:18:00] isolating to have a child with special needs, especially when they have big behaviors. And they feel the same way. It took me a while to connect to that concept that it's hard for her too. She's having a meltdown and it's embarrassing and it's huge. She's experiencing it too. It's not like she doesn't remember or understand that her behavior is not typical and here in a center we have the dignity and space to melt down sometimes and build connections with peers who aren't gonna be like, that wasn't the most shocking thing they've ever seen. It happens every day. So, we've touched some interesting spaces beyond just what does this center based program. We've sort of touched both sides. Like we want our kids in the least restrictive environment. But also, we don't want to just shove them into the least restrictive environment into a GenEd space. We wanna meaningfully include them. Laura Anglemyer: And sometimes I think it's how you look at it. Sometimes I feel that this SSN program, this self-contained program, can be their [00:19:00] least restrictive because this is where they can be themselves. I think sometimes the GenEd environment for some of these kids, not all of them, but for some of them I feel the general ed population is more restrictive for 'em because they're unable to express their needs. They're unable to maybe have that little meltdown they need to have. They're unable to really be who they are in that GenEd classroom because they're trying to conform so much to being who they're not out there. And then when they're in this classroom, they can just, they can show who they are. Aleia Mastroianni: Oh my gosh. Think I'm gonna cry a little bit. I've never heard it put that way ever. That is so beautiful. I am going to repeat that and repeat that. This is the least restrictive environment. Oh my gosh, Laura. People, she just hit my heart again. I really think it's beautiful and super true. Uh. This is why I [00:20:00] love Ms Laura Anglemyer. Ladies and gentlemen, parents out there. Thank you for joining our podcast today. Laura, thank you. Laura Anglemyer: You're welcome Aleia Mastroianni: for sharing your time with me. You're always the best. If you want more information about DCSEAC , we're at dcseac.org and you can also find us on YouTube and Instagram and Facebook and TikTok, all the places. If you want additional information about SSN programming from our district, I'll link in our show notes, the district website, and they have a blurb on the different center-based programming that we have. Thanks parents, will catch you on the next one.