WEBVTT

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A lot of people don't think their self -talk

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is that bad. When I first say, you know, tell

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me about your self -talk, they're like, it's

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not that bad. But then when they start to pay

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attention, they start to realize, oh, wow, yeah,

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I do say a lot of negative things, like I can't

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do that, I'm too tired, I'm too sick, I'm not

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going to be able to, I'll never be able to. So

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all that negative self -talk, start to catch

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yourself. And when you catch yourself, stop and

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change it to something the opposite. And it's

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okay if the opposite sounds ridiculous. Today,

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I have the pleasure of speaking with Trina, who

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was diagnosed with Crohn's disease at age 37

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in Vancouver, Canada. Trina, welcome to the show.

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Thank you for having me. So we're going to talk

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a lot about body image, intimacy in today's episode.

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But before we get there, I'd like to take a step

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back and focus a little bit on your individual

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IBD journey. So tell me a little bit about when

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your symptoms began and how they eventually led

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to your IBD diagnosis. So it was actually in

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2008 when my symptoms began and it was a reaction

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to a pharmaceutical. I had taken Twinrix vaccine.

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It's Hep A, B, and it was recommended for working

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in a transition house. That's where I was working

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at the time with a lot of people with multiple

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barriers. So because they engaged in addiction

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and that kind of thing, it put me at a higher

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risk for Hep A or Hep B. So it was recommended.

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And at that time, I didn't know that. people

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ever had bad reactions to vaccines but I found

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out pretty fast that some people do sometimes

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and I was one of those people that time. My symptoms

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were just disabling and majority they centered

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around gastrointestinal issues and neurological

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issues. Doctors just weren't able to help me.

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I went on tons of different medications but none

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of them helped my my symptoms they just kind

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of masked them a little bit like I was on beta

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blockers because my heart would race so fast

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and I was on an antidepressant because I was

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so depressed because I was so sick and doctors

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I'm sure you've heard other guests say this and

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maybe it's happened to you will often gaslight

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you and suggest that it's all in your head So

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I was going through that. I was being told that

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it was all in my head. So the antidepressant

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was recommended to, you know, deal with my head

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problems. But that didn't make the symptoms go

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away. And I was on like salt taps, a few different

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medications, but none of them were helping me.

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And at that time, I think because... I didn't

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realize it was caused by the vaccine. And my

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doctor, even though he was the one who administered

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it, didn't catch that either. We didn't know

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what was causing my issues. So we were just going

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from specialist to specialist and getting tests

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run. And I think another really common experience

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of people with these issues is when you're first

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sick, you'll feel sick for a long time before

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your tests will come back. weird. It's like our

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bodies could just balance things out until we're

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so sick that they just can't balance things out

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anymore or something. I don't know. But my symptoms

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were really terrible, but my tests were always

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coming back normal. But four years into that,

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and actually I started to be able to manage my

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symptoms during that time by changing my diet.

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What had happened is I had developed food sensitivities

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that I didn't have before the pharmaceutical

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reaction. And so then I didn't realize that I

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still had them. So I was eating all those foods.

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And when I changed my diet and I went gluten

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-free and I cut out like food chemicals and processed

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foods, mostly that kind of stuff, I actually

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felt like 80 % better. It felt like a miracle

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at the time. But the gastrointestinal issues

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just continued. There was like constipation,

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then diarrhea, then constipation, a lot of like

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just stomach pain and bloating and rectal bleeding.

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And I was just told, eat more fiber. And I tried

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that, believe me. It didn't work. Yeah, we all

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did, right? So it just got worse and worse. In

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2012, so this is four years after of me struggling

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with these issues, I got really sick. And I felt

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kind of like a flu because I was vomiting and

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having diarrhea and feeling just very, very unwell.

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But it just didn't, wouldn't go away. And I had

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to go to work. I had to go back to work. you

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know, I was taking so much time off, but I was

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so, so ill. So I went to the hospital like two

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or three times and they did an x -ray and they

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said, you look a little gassy in your bowel,

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they said. So they sent me home with a laxative.

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And after I took the laxative, everything went

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really downhill from there. I became so sick

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that one morning my husband had took my our children

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to school and daycare. And I was lying in bed

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at home and I picked up my phone and I called

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my mom and I said, Mom, I think I'm dying. I

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feel like I'm dying. And she was on her way to

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work and she turned around and she came back

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and she called an ambulance and they came and

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got me and they took me to the hospital. And

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I had a really horrible experience there too,

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where they forced me to take more laxatives.

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They were basically just letting me die behind

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a curtain because I had a bowel perforation.

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And they didn't know it and they wouldn't run

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any tests until I agreed to take another laxative.

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But the first laxative had made me feel like

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I was going to die. So I didn't want to take

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it. But I finally gave in and it nearly killed

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me. That night I had to have 75 % of my large

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intestine removed. just so I wouldn't die because

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I had a hole in my bowel and it was like leaking

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poo into my body and then the bowel itself became

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ischemic. So then I had a temporary ileostomy

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for like four months and then they reconnected

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me and then I spent 10 years trying to avoid

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ever having an ostomy again and eventually got

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to the point where my What was left of my large

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intestine, no matter how hard I tried, I could

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not heal it. So eventually just realized the

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obstacle is the way and said, just give me the

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surgery because I can't live like this anymore.

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So they gave me the surgery. And that was huge

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for me because the first time I had the ostomy,

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I was so depressed and my life was like such

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a mess. And I hated the ostomy so much and had

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incredible insecurities around it. Like for that

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four months, I couldn't have a life at all. I

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cried every time it farted in front of someone

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because like they, the ostomies that have a bowel,

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not, not like, not your ostomies, but colostomies

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and ileostomies, they can fill with air. They

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can fart. You don't know what's going to happen.

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Like you can't clench your butt cheeks, you know?

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And it can be really embarrassing. And I didn't

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have the resources or the understanding to manage

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it at that time. So 10 years later, when I was

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faced with it again, I decided I wasn't going

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to allow myself to go through that again. During

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that first time, it was about three years from

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my surgery till I felt well enough to start to

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live again. And during that three years, I went

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through touch starvation. I became very spiritual

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because I really needed something to hold on

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to to get me through. And I became a really new

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person and started to see life in an entirely

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different way because... I couldn't live it.

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And so I knew if I ever had the chance to live

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it again, that I would just be so grateful. I

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would never take another minute for granted,

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you know. So coming out the other side, then

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kind of skipped a little bit in the middle. That

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is very integral to what I'm doing now. I left

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my husband when I was well enough because we

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didn't have a very good marriage. Hence the touch

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starvation. And once I was out of that marriage,

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I was living on disability, taking care of three

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children, still struggling with my health. And

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I needed a job that I could work that I wouldn't

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get fired. And I used to be a stripper years

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ago. So I went back to the strip club and I said,

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can I be your massage girl? And basically a massage

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girl in the strip club just gives like neck massages.

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walks around, gives neck massages, and you're

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self -employed, so I wouldn't get fired if I

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couldn't work because I was sick, and I could

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make enough money to help me live because disability

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wasn't enough to support my kids. So while I

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was doing that work, I literally would have,

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like, I'd be massaging these men in the strip

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club, and occasionally they would literally start

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crying and say, no one's touched me in so long.

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And I could relate because I went through that.

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And I just started to really have like the sensitivity

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for how people are suffering from not having

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touch in their lives. And it became something

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that just was important to me to advocate about.

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I didn't expect to become a coach, but years

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later, a few years later, I... Especially since

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I got the ostomy. I just started intimacy coaching

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about a year before, a couple years before the

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ostomy. But now, especially since I got the ostomy,

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I feel like people with disabilities especially

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struggle with getting their intimacy needs met

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and also with self -worth. And self -worth can

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block intimacy. So it's just so important to

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me to... try and help people overcome those issues

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that I've learned how to overcome. So that's

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kind of where I am now. I have an ostomy bag.

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I'm not scared about it farting. You know, I'm

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so still so grateful that I have life to live.

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And I feel that coaching people who are dealing

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with touch starvation or a lack of intimacy in

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their lives is really rewarding. Right, right.

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Well, that's quite a journey. And you just answered

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about five, six questions that I was going to

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ask you anyway, which is great. That kind of

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moved things along. And I do want to take one

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step back before we're going to dive in a little

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bit into what it is that you're doing today.

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So you had these surgeries. Obviously, you were

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one of those very unfortunate people that did

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not even have any time to... you know, emotionally

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process getting ready for surgery, or at least

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not your first surgery. And then you said, you

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know, you looked at your ostomy and you hated

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it. So my question for you about this journey,

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I think it was a 10 -year period that you described

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as well until you got to where you are today.

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How did your perception of your own body shift?

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And also, how long did it take you to feel grounded

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again, you know, based on seeing that ostomy,

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hating it, you know, and the surgeries that you

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had? Those are great questions. I think every

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person obviously goes through a grieving process

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when your body is changed, especially if you've

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taken pride in your body. And as someone who

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had been an exotic dancer for years, my body

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was how I made my money. I was very proud of

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my flat, perfect stomach. you know my athleticism

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so when i got really sick really frail i looked

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like a skeleton i would go to the hospital and

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be treated like i was a drug addict because i

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looked like I just walked in off the street.

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I was so skinny and frail. Not that drug addicts

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should be treated that way, but it was like I

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had to tell them I'm not a drug addict. You know,

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it's just ridiculous. But it was so hard at first.

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Like it was so hard to see my stomach destroyed,

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the scars. Like even after the ostomy was reversed,

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I had no belly button. I had extremely bad scars.

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A few years later, I went back and had scar revision

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surgery, which made the scar a little bit less

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hideous, but still quite hideous. But what actually

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made the difference for me to become more confident

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was taking risks. I had to risk being naked in

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front of a lover. I had to risk, you know, being

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rejected. I had to see for myself that people

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wouldn't be repulsed by me. You know, and because

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I'd been in the adult entertainment industry

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and I'd spent a lot of years nude modeling even,

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I decided that... I especially after the recent

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ostomy that I was going to like do a lot of photo

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shoots. So, you know, with my bag showing and

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feeling confident. But even before that, when

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it was just the scars between my two big surgeries,

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then that was that took me like being in a relationship.

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So leaving my marriage where I never was touched,

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starting a new relationship with someone and

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and getting over my fear of them seeing my scars.

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Really. And then not being rejected. So I think

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there is another way of going about that now.

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Because with my second ostomy surgery, I started

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to go through all the fears again. I'm going

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to be repulsive. No one's going to want to have

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sex with me. My partner's going to leave me.

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All of those thoughts started to come again.

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And that time, I was able to address those emotions

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and those feelings before my surgery. So that

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when I had it, it was really smooth sailing.

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And I did that by using visualization, which

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is just so powerful. But literally like visualizing

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myself doing all the things that I was scared

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I wouldn't be able to do, including imagining

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myself making love. But in all of my visualization,

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having the bag. and it being fine and it being

00:15:36.720 --> 00:15:39.259
great and it not even me not even noticing it

00:15:39.259 --> 00:15:42.419
there and just visualizing myself living my life

00:15:42.419 --> 00:15:47.019
happy go lucky with my bag transformed how I

00:15:47.019 --> 00:15:49.620
experienced having the bag it sounds so simple

00:15:49.620 --> 00:15:52.899
and it sounds like impossible that it made such

00:15:52.899 --> 00:15:54.980
a big difference but it was literally within

00:15:54.980 --> 00:15:59.080
days that I started to unclench and my fears

00:15:59.080 --> 00:16:00.620
started to go away and I started to feel like

00:16:00.620 --> 00:16:03.399
I already had had the surgery even though I hadn't

00:16:03.399 --> 00:16:05.960
had it yet That's how powerful visualization

00:16:05.960 --> 00:16:09.100
is. So with my clients, my coaching clients,

00:16:09.240 --> 00:16:13.139
I'll often try to like skip the whole taking

00:16:13.139 --> 00:16:15.879
risks first, you know, and let's go straight

00:16:15.879 --> 00:16:19.340
to your feelings, your emotions. What are you

00:16:19.340 --> 00:16:21.460
visualizing? What are you affirming to yourself?

00:16:21.759 --> 00:16:25.120
And then that can give you a really big jumpstart

00:16:25.120 --> 00:16:27.120
before you start going out and risking having

00:16:27.120 --> 00:16:32.039
people see you and see your body. So you just

00:16:32.039 --> 00:16:33.539
mentioned clients and you mentioned earlier,

00:16:33.639 --> 00:16:35.220
of course, that you sort of transitioned into

00:16:35.220 --> 00:16:38.460
this new purpose in your life, right? To coach

00:16:38.460 --> 00:16:41.860
others and really focus on intimacy. What does

00:16:41.860 --> 00:16:47.120
an intimacy coach do exactly in the context of

00:16:47.120 --> 00:16:51.080
chronic illness or disabilities in general? The

00:16:51.080 --> 00:16:54.460
reason I focus on people with disabilities is

00:16:54.460 --> 00:16:59.019
because most people in coaching or even in therapy,

00:16:59.899 --> 00:17:03.360
aren't disabled. And so they can't relate. And

00:17:03.360 --> 00:17:05.759
I've been in that position of trying to access

00:17:05.759 --> 00:17:10.240
care or therapy from people who just don't understand

00:17:10.240 --> 00:17:12.900
what it's like. They haven't been through it.

00:17:12.920 --> 00:17:16.240
Often they haven't, they aren't, haven't like

00:17:16.240 --> 00:17:19.079
gotten as evolved as I am because of what I've

00:17:19.079 --> 00:17:21.980
been through. And I'll feel like I'm not really

00:17:21.980 --> 00:17:25.630
getting from them what I need. For instance,

00:17:25.789 --> 00:17:27.450
you know, when you're sick and you're trying

00:17:27.450 --> 00:17:31.450
to explain it to someone, a normie, a normie

00:17:31.450 --> 00:17:35.289
who's never been sick. And they say something

00:17:35.289 --> 00:17:37.769
dumb or really rude because they really have

00:17:37.769 --> 00:17:40.970
no idea what to say. Or you go through a major

00:17:40.970 --> 00:17:43.430
surgery like what I went through and there are

00:17:43.430 --> 00:17:46.410
friends that just suddenly disappear. And it's

00:17:46.410 --> 00:17:49.890
not because they don't like me anymore. It's

00:17:49.890 --> 00:17:52.750
because they don't know what to say. They don't

00:17:52.750 --> 00:17:55.269
know how to relate. It's like if someone you

00:17:55.269 --> 00:17:59.549
know has their child or their parent die. You

00:17:59.549 --> 00:18:02.069
know, you'll see so many people hightail it out

00:18:02.069 --> 00:18:04.029
of there because they just don't know how to

00:18:04.029 --> 00:18:06.789
relate. They don't know how to talk. And then

00:18:06.789 --> 00:18:09.769
if you are disabled and someone says something

00:18:09.769 --> 00:18:14.170
wrong to you and you react poorly, like, why

00:18:14.170 --> 00:18:16.670
did you say that? You know, now you're pushing

00:18:16.670 --> 00:18:19.730
them away even more. And and it's not that they

00:18:19.730 --> 00:18:22.390
are intending usually it's not that they're intending

00:18:22.390 --> 00:18:25.150
to be offensive. They're just don't know what

00:18:25.150 --> 00:18:27.869
to say. Right. But I kind of went off on a tangent

00:18:27.869 --> 00:18:30.009
there. But as someone who's been through this

00:18:30.009 --> 00:18:34.089
stuff, I can I can like say things. I can even

00:18:34.089 --> 00:18:37.069
say it be a little more edgy. I can even be a

00:18:37.069 --> 00:18:38.789
little more crude, kind of like you're talking

00:18:38.789 --> 00:18:43.390
shit podcast because you're you're talking about

00:18:43.390 --> 00:18:50.819
literally, you know, human. stuff. And a lot

00:18:50.819 --> 00:18:54.779
of people who are having problems with ostomies

00:18:54.779 --> 00:18:57.000
or things that have to do with bodily fluids

00:18:57.000 --> 00:19:00.619
or sex, it's very uncomfortable to talk to someone

00:19:00.619 --> 00:19:03.619
who has no idea what they're going through and

00:19:03.619 --> 00:19:06.960
has never been through it. So in that way, I

00:19:06.960 --> 00:19:11.460
can relate to people. I don't have to worry too

00:19:11.460 --> 00:19:15.089
much about what I say because I... I know what's

00:19:15.089 --> 00:19:18.009
offensive. Like if someone tells me a gross story,

00:19:18.170 --> 00:19:22.430
I'm not going to act disgusted, you know, for

00:19:22.430 --> 00:19:26.549
instance. But definitely having a background

00:19:26.549 --> 00:19:28.710
in the adult entertainment industry and then

00:19:28.710 --> 00:19:32.250
going through my health journey, I'm the type

00:19:32.250 --> 00:19:35.869
of person that my clients tell me they just feel

00:19:35.869 --> 00:19:38.730
really comfortable to say anything. And that's

00:19:38.730 --> 00:19:43.309
kind of the key, right? Absolutely. So we agree

00:19:43.309 --> 00:19:47.150
that most people who are going through these

00:19:47.150 --> 00:19:50.269
types of IBD journeys, surgeries, ostomies, obviously

00:19:50.269 --> 00:19:52.309
a whole bunch of issues that they're dealing

00:19:52.309 --> 00:19:55.650
with, insecurities, body image issues. And then,

00:19:55.670 --> 00:19:57.750
of course, like you mentioned, touch starvations

00:19:57.750 --> 00:20:02.210
and sort of fears about being intimate in the

00:20:02.210 --> 00:20:05.809
future, having sexual relations, et cetera. How

00:20:05.809 --> 00:20:09.700
do you help someone? that approaches you who

00:20:09.700 --> 00:20:13.900
is convinced that their body is now unattractive

00:20:13.900 --> 00:20:18.500
or unlovable because of their ostomy? Yeah, unfortunately,

00:20:18.599 --> 00:20:22.180
I can't convince them. It's something they have

00:20:22.180 --> 00:20:25.839
to do for themselves. All I can do is help them

00:20:25.839 --> 00:20:30.799
learn strategies and techniques to change their...

00:20:31.109 --> 00:20:34.450
perspective of themselves and that's by using

00:20:34.450 --> 00:20:39.029
like self -talk strategies visualization also

00:20:39.029 --> 00:20:46.029
on my end pep talks and you know sharing stories

00:20:46.029 --> 00:20:50.849
to provide context so if it's like for instance

00:20:50.849 --> 00:20:56.109
I have a client who is he's struggling with walking

00:20:56.109 --> 00:21:01.319
due to a disability as he gets older he's looking

00:21:01.319 --> 00:21:03.920
at having to use a cane. He actually has a cane.

00:21:04.039 --> 00:21:07.079
He probably should be using it already, but it's

00:21:07.079 --> 00:21:09.740
a block for him. It's a fear. It's an insecurity.

00:21:09.880 --> 00:21:12.559
It makes him feel like he's weak if he uses it.

00:21:13.819 --> 00:21:18.980
And so what we talked about, for instance, is

00:21:18.980 --> 00:21:22.400
doing the visualization of imagining himself

00:21:22.400 --> 00:21:26.259
using his cane. And it's not a problem. And it's

00:21:26.259 --> 00:21:28.079
not a pain in the ass. And nobody looks down

00:21:28.079 --> 00:21:30.940
on him. And imagining himself feeling strong

00:21:30.940 --> 00:21:34.519
and proud and using his cane and walking into

00:21:34.519 --> 00:21:37.700
the different situations of his life, depending

00:21:37.700 --> 00:21:40.920
on what the specific... situation that the person

00:21:40.920 --> 00:21:43.440
is trying to avoid we can go through like the

00:21:43.440 --> 00:21:46.519
visualization of it there's also like walking

00:21:46.519 --> 00:21:49.240
through uh worst case scenarios which i find

00:21:49.240 --> 00:21:51.880
really helpful where we actually walk through

00:21:51.880 --> 00:21:54.240
what if what's the worst thing that could happen

00:21:54.240 --> 00:21:58.299
if if you take this risk and then what and then

00:21:58.299 --> 00:22:03.500
what and often it's manageable even if the worst

00:22:03.500 --> 00:22:05.799
thing happens it's manageable and it's worth

00:22:05.799 --> 00:22:09.950
the risk But I mean, a lot of touch starvation,

00:22:10.089 --> 00:22:13.509
a lot of people with touch starvation are married.

00:22:14.490 --> 00:22:20.190
So a lot of the coaching I do is if I have a

00:22:20.190 --> 00:22:23.650
male client, it's on like how to understand your

00:22:23.650 --> 00:22:28.750
woman, your wife's mind, so that you can attract

00:22:28.750 --> 00:22:32.789
more intimacy back into your relationship. And

00:22:32.789 --> 00:22:36.210
there is such a misunderstanding between. men

00:22:36.210 --> 00:22:38.730
and women especially because we just we we are

00:22:38.730 --> 00:22:42.009
wired differently so that could really create

00:22:42.009 --> 00:22:44.329
a block in especially long -term relationships

00:22:44.329 --> 00:22:48.769
once that kind of excitement wears off you know

00:22:48.769 --> 00:22:53.430
like attracting touch and intimacy into your

00:22:53.430 --> 00:22:59.609
life can be as simple as like imagining you're

00:22:59.609 --> 00:23:02.710
sending out love energy for just one whole day

00:23:03.099 --> 00:23:06.000
You know, there's just all these different techniques.

00:23:06.559 --> 00:23:11.339
A big part of the fear of intimacy, it's not

00:23:11.339 --> 00:23:15.839
just usually intimacy. It seeps into other parts

00:23:15.839 --> 00:23:19.200
of the life. So some of the small risks people

00:23:19.200 --> 00:23:21.700
could take might not be intimacy related at all.

00:23:22.299 --> 00:23:26.420
They might just be like, go to a party or, you

00:23:26.420 --> 00:23:28.839
know, invite your friend out for dinner or something

00:23:28.839 --> 00:23:32.480
like that. And then increasing opportunities

00:23:32.480 --> 00:23:35.180
for non -sensual touch, which is so important

00:23:35.180 --> 00:23:39.420
because especially in relationships where there's

00:23:39.420 --> 00:23:42.339
a lack of intimacy, when you increase that non

00:23:42.339 --> 00:23:44.460
-sensual touch, sometimes that can be enough

00:23:44.460 --> 00:23:47.500
to start to bring the desire back into the relationship.

00:23:48.059 --> 00:23:51.119
What's non -sensual touch for people who've never

00:23:51.119 --> 00:23:54.220
heard of this? Yeah, I'm so used to saying non

00:23:54.220 --> 00:23:56.759
-sensual because you can't say sex on Instagram.

00:23:59.920 --> 00:24:03.279
But basically non -sexual. So, you know, hugging

00:24:03.279 --> 00:24:06.460
without expecting sex, rubbing someone's back,

00:24:06.700 --> 00:24:08.759
giving them a massage without expecting sex,

00:24:08.960 --> 00:24:12.319
having a 20 second hug, resting your hand on

00:24:12.319 --> 00:24:14.839
their leg, touching their face and giving them

00:24:14.839 --> 00:24:19.819
a kiss or, you know, things that don't aren't

00:24:19.819 --> 00:24:22.539
the wife or the husband aren't thinking this

00:24:22.539 --> 00:24:24.799
is going to lead into sex right now. Gotcha.

00:24:25.160 --> 00:24:27.579
Gotcha. Okay. So you've been talking a lot about.

00:24:27.869 --> 00:24:31.329
touch starvation. And I'm very keen to know,

00:24:31.470 --> 00:24:33.289
based on your personal experience and specifically

00:24:33.289 --> 00:24:37.730
for your IBD clients, is there a major discrepancy

00:24:37.730 --> 00:24:41.109
between genders, you know, male, female? Is it

00:24:41.109 --> 00:24:44.990
pretty balanced? Based on my experience and my

00:24:44.990 --> 00:24:47.430
clients, I would say that there are more men

00:24:47.430 --> 00:24:51.930
who are touch starved. For instance, like...

00:24:52.279 --> 00:24:54.559
Women are more likely, especially if they have

00:24:54.559 --> 00:24:57.680
young children, to be constantly getting hugged,

00:24:57.680 --> 00:25:00.400
having their child on their hip, having, you

00:25:00.400 --> 00:25:02.619
know, their children touching them all the time.

00:25:02.640 --> 00:25:05.519
In fact, a lot of mothers can be like over -touched.

00:25:05.599 --> 00:25:08.160
Like, I just don't want anyone to touch me right

00:25:08.160 --> 00:25:11.880
now, you know? And whereas like you won't maybe

00:25:11.880 --> 00:25:13.960
see that as much with the father who's out of

00:25:13.960 --> 00:25:18.019
the home and providing and not getting as much

00:25:18.019 --> 00:25:22.420
of that kind of touch in his life. That would

00:25:22.420 --> 00:25:26.400
provide a discrepancy there. Also, what I find

00:25:26.400 --> 00:25:29.839
is that women maybe don't realize that they need

00:25:29.839 --> 00:25:32.299
touch as much or they don't prioritize it as

00:25:32.299 --> 00:25:36.680
much. So there's two kind of aspects to that.

00:25:36.779 --> 00:25:40.740
One is where they have just, they've just...

00:25:42.839 --> 00:25:45.599
use it or lose it. They haven't used it and they've

00:25:45.599 --> 00:25:47.559
lost it. You know what I mean? They just, they

00:25:47.559 --> 00:25:50.160
get so accustomed to not having it in their life

00:25:50.160 --> 00:25:51.980
and they just get used to their life being that

00:25:51.980 --> 00:25:54.160
way. And it's just, they don't think they need

00:25:54.160 --> 00:25:57.779
it. But they don't realize how important it is.

00:25:57.799 --> 00:26:01.160
And actually they're, you know, their likelihood

00:26:01.160 --> 00:26:04.220
of getting sick, their likelihood of having any

00:26:04.220 --> 00:26:06.980
kind of problems increases when they don't have

00:26:06.980 --> 00:26:10.259
touch and intimacy in their lives. The one thing,

00:26:10.259 --> 00:26:13.079
other thing is like women are more likely to

00:26:13.079 --> 00:26:15.579
hug their friends. They're more likely to like

00:26:15.579 --> 00:26:18.460
sit close to their friend and like cuddle and

00:26:18.460 --> 00:26:21.299
watch a movie. They're more likely to have emotional

00:26:21.299 --> 00:26:24.299
bonding with their friends. So women are experiencing

00:26:24.299 --> 00:26:27.740
more intimacy that's not necessarily touch usually

00:26:27.740 --> 00:26:31.920
than men. But like in my case, and in a lot of

00:26:31.920 --> 00:26:33.940
people who are sick, you're not having those

00:26:33.940 --> 00:26:36.119
bonding moments with your friends. You're not,

00:26:36.119 --> 00:26:38.500
you know, you're not even being touched by your

00:26:38.500 --> 00:26:41.859
children, whatever. So that touch could just

00:26:41.859 --> 00:26:44.799
go completely out the window. Men, on the other

00:26:44.799 --> 00:26:48.339
hand, they usually prioritize intimacy. And the

00:26:48.339 --> 00:26:52.140
reason for that is because men access their emotional

00:26:52.140 --> 00:26:54.920
connection and their bonding through physical

00:26:54.920 --> 00:26:58.380
intimacy. So you're much more likely to have

00:26:58.380 --> 00:27:02.039
a really emotional bonding conversation with

00:27:02.039 --> 00:27:05.480
a man after you've had some physical intimacy.

00:27:06.019 --> 00:27:09.519
Whereas women, we tend to like need that bond

00:27:09.519 --> 00:27:14.420
before we feel desire. So kind of recognizing

00:27:14.420 --> 00:27:17.599
those differences. And men, because they're so

00:27:17.599 --> 00:27:21.599
unlikely to ask for help, their friends aren't

00:27:21.599 --> 00:27:25.559
like giving them hugs. And so if their wife starts

00:27:25.559 --> 00:27:28.980
rejecting them, they can internalize that as

00:27:28.980 --> 00:27:32.099
something wrong with them. They start to doubt

00:27:32.099 --> 00:27:36.200
their ability in the bedroom, and then they won't

00:27:36.200 --> 00:27:39.299
ask for it. A woman, if she feels like her man's

00:27:39.299 --> 00:27:41.119
not touching her enough, will usually eventually

00:27:41.119 --> 00:27:45.740
ask for it. But a man is less likely. Once he's

00:27:45.740 --> 00:27:47.740
been rebuffed a few times, he's less likely.

00:27:47.799 --> 00:27:51.000
Or what could happen too is he doesn't understand

00:27:51.000 --> 00:27:55.710
how to get his wife. in the mood or, you know,

00:27:55.710 --> 00:27:58.250
get that kind of reaction from women. And so

00:27:58.250 --> 00:28:00.730
he'll behave in ways that will actually push

00:28:00.730 --> 00:28:03.809
it away more, you know? Well, of course, of course.

00:28:04.049 --> 00:28:08.549
So you talked a little bit about, you know, your

00:28:08.549 --> 00:28:12.170
own fears, potentially insecurities, especially

00:28:12.170 --> 00:28:16.329
when talking about intimacy post -surgery. What

00:28:16.329 --> 00:28:20.920
I... What are the most common fears that you

00:28:20.920 --> 00:28:25.559
see people have before initiating intimacy post

00:28:25.559 --> 00:28:29.099
-surgery? With ostomies, I think two big ones.

00:28:29.319 --> 00:28:34.619
Will the bag fart? And will the bag leak? Those

00:28:34.619 --> 00:28:37.420
are the two big ones to do with ostomies. And

00:28:37.420 --> 00:28:40.859
I can quickly tell people how to handle that.

00:28:42.839 --> 00:28:48.549
So if the bag farts, you just go, oops. put your

00:28:48.549 --> 00:28:51.490
hand over it so it stops or so you can muffle

00:28:51.490 --> 00:28:55.769
it and just go oops and then keep going pretend

00:28:55.769 --> 00:28:57.670
it didn't happen after that because if you make

00:28:57.670 --> 00:29:00.089
a big deal out of it out of it that's going to

00:29:00.089 --> 00:29:02.609
make your partner uncomfortable that will it's

00:29:02.609 --> 00:29:04.230
not the fart that's going to kill the moment

00:29:04.230 --> 00:29:07.890
it's the it's your negative reaction that will

00:29:07.890 --> 00:29:10.410
kill the moment so if you can act like it's no

00:29:10.410 --> 00:29:13.809
big deal you're doing your partner a big favor

00:29:13.809 --> 00:29:16.549
like huge You don't want to make them uncomfortable

00:29:16.549 --> 00:29:19.829
by, like, being like, oh my god, I'm so embarrassed,

00:29:20.230 --> 00:29:24.130
you know? Just think of all the weird noises

00:29:24.130 --> 00:29:26.069
that happen during sex. Like, when we were young

00:29:26.069 --> 00:29:30.069
kids, sure, we'd laugh, like, oh, but as we get

00:29:30.069 --> 00:29:35.390
older, we're like, oops. And then with the bag

00:29:35.390 --> 00:29:39.869
leaking, it usually doesn't happen, number one,

00:29:39.890 --> 00:29:42.849
so. Don't worry too much about it. Number two,

00:29:42.910 --> 00:29:47.109
if it does happen, the majority of people that

00:29:47.109 --> 00:29:49.950
this has happened to report that their partners

00:29:49.950 --> 00:29:53.089
were not grossed out. They weren't. It didn't

00:29:53.089 --> 00:29:55.849
wreck their relationship. It didn't turn anyone

00:29:55.849 --> 00:29:59.250
off. And I've actually had it happen to me. And

00:29:59.250 --> 00:30:03.829
the person I was with just waited patiently while

00:30:03.829 --> 00:30:07.900
I went. dealt with it in the bathroom cleaned

00:30:07.900 --> 00:30:10.640
up yeah yeah and luckily for me it wasn't like

00:30:10.640 --> 00:30:13.799
a big usually if something starts to kind of

00:30:13.799 --> 00:30:16.380
go in that situation we could catch it before

00:30:16.380 --> 00:30:19.559
it's a you know a big mess or anything so it's

00:30:19.559 --> 00:30:21.619
not like it's the end of the world it's just

00:30:21.619 --> 00:30:26.099
it's just like oh shit literally um i i gotta

00:30:26.099 --> 00:30:29.660
go to the bathroom uh my bag is leaking and then

00:30:29.660 --> 00:30:32.660
you go you change your bag you come back you

00:30:32.660 --> 00:30:37.730
keep going Right, right. So what I'm getting

00:30:37.730 --> 00:30:39.130
from this, what I'm starting to pick up from

00:30:39.130 --> 00:30:42.029
based on what you're saying is that is it better

00:30:42.029 --> 00:30:45.029
to just be frank, be straightforward, be candid,

00:30:45.130 --> 00:30:47.569
potentially introduce a little bit of humor and

00:30:47.569 --> 00:30:49.410
things will kind of take care of themselves?

00:30:49.509 --> 00:30:51.450
Because it's still pretty tough, I think, for

00:30:51.450 --> 00:30:54.289
people to imagine that, hey, oh, just being casual

00:30:54.289 --> 00:30:56.950
will probably solve the problem. But that doesn't

00:30:56.950 --> 00:30:59.690
necessarily reassure me, right? Because I might

00:30:59.690 --> 00:31:03.349
be too embarrassed. Is it as... easy for people

00:31:03.349 --> 00:31:05.589
as you described also like well at first you

00:31:05.589 --> 00:31:08.950
kind of have to fake it right and if you're faking

00:31:08.950 --> 00:31:11.829
it if you're faking it for your partner right

00:31:11.829 --> 00:31:15.109
like ladies can understand this just just kidding

00:31:15.109 --> 00:31:19.730
um but if you're like if you're faking it because

00:31:19.730 --> 00:31:21.809
you don't want to make your partner or the other

00:31:21.809 --> 00:31:23.890
person feel uncomfortable it's a little easier

00:31:23.890 --> 00:31:26.630
you know if you know you're you're doing it for

00:31:26.630 --> 00:31:28.990
them like yeah you i mean i've turned bright

00:31:28.990 --> 00:31:33.619
red and went oops And then just keep going, you

00:31:33.619 --> 00:31:36.599
know, like, yeah, it's, it's embarrassing. Right.

00:31:36.720 --> 00:31:41.240
But if you remind yourself and also like, like

00:31:41.240 --> 00:31:43.640
think of it from the other perspective, if it

00:31:43.640 --> 00:31:47.319
was your partner and they had a bag and you're

00:31:47.319 --> 00:31:49.460
in the middle of having some fun and their bag

00:31:49.460 --> 00:31:52.640
farts and like, would, do you want them to start

00:31:52.640 --> 00:31:55.990
crying about it? I mean, literally, I would have

00:31:55.990 --> 00:31:58.730
started crying about it back in the day. So I'm

00:31:58.730 --> 00:32:01.430
not laughing at people who do cry because I know

00:32:01.430 --> 00:32:04.210
that feeling. But obviously, you don't want them

00:32:04.210 --> 00:32:06.910
to. You don't. You just want them to feel safe

00:32:06.910 --> 00:32:09.470
and comfortable with you and know that you're

00:32:09.470 --> 00:32:12.589
not going to judge them. Right. I mean, in the

00:32:12.589 --> 00:32:16.049
very unlikely situation, which it can happen

00:32:16.049 --> 00:32:21.849
if you're with a very. not nice person you could

00:32:21.849 --> 00:32:24.190
be with you could be with someone that's rude

00:32:24.190 --> 00:32:26.029
or mean and and you could go through something

00:32:26.029 --> 00:32:28.789
really bad because of that and if that's the

00:32:28.789 --> 00:32:33.190
case i mean i can't help but suggest that that's

00:32:33.190 --> 00:32:37.609
not your person you know of course yeah so you

00:32:37.609 --> 00:32:41.329
you talked about the actual acts of intimacy

00:32:41.329 --> 00:32:43.329
but getting there is a whole different story

00:32:43.329 --> 00:32:46.990
so i'd like to ask you now if we look at this

00:32:47.309 --> 00:32:50.849
From a practical point of view, what steps can

00:32:50.849 --> 00:32:55.390
couples take to rebuild a certain level of intimacy

00:32:55.390 --> 00:33:01.529
after long periods of IBD illness? Well, I'll

00:33:01.529 --> 00:33:05.930
start with like when someone's sick, right? Because

00:33:05.930 --> 00:33:09.190
when we're sick, people are scared. They don't

00:33:09.190 --> 00:33:11.869
know if they should touch us. they don't know

00:33:11.869 --> 00:33:14.109
if they can touch us, right? And sometimes they'll

00:33:14.109 --> 00:33:16.450
touch us, and the way they're touching us, it's

00:33:16.450 --> 00:33:19.029
either, you know, we can't handle it, or it's

00:33:19.029 --> 00:33:22.369
too much, or it's too, it tickles, or it hurts.

00:33:22.890 --> 00:33:25.430
I've created an intimacy guide for people with

00:33:25.430 --> 00:33:28.269
ostomies, and I'd like to create one for the

00:33:28.269 --> 00:33:31.950
partners of people with ostomies. And one thing

00:33:31.950 --> 00:33:34.630
I would really like partners to do is just to

00:33:34.630 --> 00:33:39.170
keep touching their sick spouse. keep touching

00:33:39.170 --> 00:33:42.690
them even if they push you away sometimes find

00:33:42.690 --> 00:33:46.910
out what they can tolerate if it's just a hand

00:33:46.910 --> 00:33:51.170
on the leg in the hospital bed if it's like light

00:33:51.170 --> 00:33:54.890
petting of the hair like give give them 10 minutes

00:33:54.890 --> 00:33:58.630
if that's all you can give you know longer would

00:33:58.630 --> 00:34:02.130
be great or more often maybe not even longer

00:34:02.130 --> 00:34:04.609
sometimes when you're sick having touch for too

00:34:04.609 --> 00:34:08.900
long is too much But often, maybe just a little

00:34:08.900 --> 00:34:12.539
more often, very light, tender, kind touch. And

00:34:12.539 --> 00:34:14.320
if they're like, that tickles, then you know

00:34:14.320 --> 00:34:18.219
it's too light. But if they say, don't touch

00:34:18.219 --> 00:34:20.659
me like that, don't give up. Don't give up and

00:34:20.659 --> 00:34:22.360
just be like, fine, I'm not going to touch you.

00:34:23.099 --> 00:34:27.400
Because we need to be touched. We just, we're

00:34:27.400 --> 00:34:32.460
really fragile and our... sensitivity, like the

00:34:32.460 --> 00:34:35.280
nerve endings of our skin are reacting differently

00:34:35.280 --> 00:34:38.719
right now, we still need to feel like you care

00:34:38.719 --> 00:34:42.199
about us. That's the main thing. And touch, even

00:34:42.199 --> 00:34:44.880
just a little bit of touch, just a tiny little

00:34:44.880 --> 00:34:48.039
bit of touch here and there when you're talking

00:34:48.039 --> 00:34:50.500
to your spouse is going to make a big difference.

00:34:50.860 --> 00:34:53.940
And then when, if you're trying to rebuild intimacy

00:34:53.940 --> 00:34:56.179
in a relationship that hasn't had it for a long

00:34:56.179 --> 00:35:00.380
time, Communication is really important, but

00:35:00.380 --> 00:35:05.039
I feel like often what will happen is it kind

00:35:05.039 --> 00:35:08.380
of backfires because in the moment, you know,

00:35:08.400 --> 00:35:11.139
one person will say something and the other person

00:35:11.139 --> 00:35:15.340
will take it the wrong way. Or there's just misunderstandings

00:35:15.340 --> 00:35:17.960
because we don't really speak the same language,

00:35:18.000 --> 00:35:22.199
especially in heterosexual couples. So what I

00:35:22.199 --> 00:35:25.670
suggest and what I encourage. the person i'm

00:35:25.670 --> 00:35:28.349
coaching to do is to start with the non -sexual

00:35:28.349 --> 00:35:32.059
touch and just to increase that same kind of

00:35:32.059 --> 00:35:33.699
touch like what I'm talking about if your spouse

00:35:33.699 --> 00:35:37.519
is sick like just increase touch so in my case

00:35:37.519 --> 00:35:40.119
I'm usually my most of my clients are the ones

00:35:40.119 --> 00:35:42.539
with the disability and they're not being touched

00:35:42.539 --> 00:35:45.320
anymore and they they start to internalize that

00:35:45.320 --> 00:35:47.619
they feel like it's because of my ostomy bag

00:35:47.619 --> 00:35:50.260
it's because I'm sick all the time it's because

00:35:50.260 --> 00:35:54.320
I'm not lovable I'm not worthy anymore in my

00:35:54.320 --> 00:35:57.219
partner's eyes and even if they don't verbalize

00:35:57.219 --> 00:35:59.460
that in their minds it's how they start to feel

00:36:01.090 --> 00:36:04.050
So it's kind of like hard sometimes for them

00:36:04.050 --> 00:36:06.010
to say, well, I'm the one who has to do the work

00:36:06.010 --> 00:36:08.909
now. And the work for them would be to start

00:36:08.909 --> 00:36:13.030
increasing emotional bonding and non -sexual

00:36:13.030 --> 00:36:15.949
touch in the relationship. So more long hugs,

00:36:16.070 --> 00:36:18.570
trying to get them for like 20 seconds at least,

00:36:18.570 --> 00:36:21.309
because that's when the hormones start getting

00:36:21.309 --> 00:36:24.969
released that calm us and make us feel like we're

00:36:24.969 --> 00:36:27.070
connecting to the person and we're bonding with

00:36:27.070 --> 00:36:31.519
the person. So 20 second hugs, you know, cuddling

00:36:31.519 --> 00:36:35.820
on the couch, foot massages, just touching, non

00:36:35.820 --> 00:36:38.659
-sexual touching, legs touching when you're sitting

00:36:38.659 --> 00:36:41.000
next to each other, things like that, building

00:36:41.000 --> 00:36:45.719
that up. And then women, if it's like, if it's

00:36:45.719 --> 00:36:50.980
a man, women really like to feel loved. like

00:36:50.980 --> 00:36:53.719
loved like give give her tell her she's sexy

00:36:53.719 --> 00:36:56.219
tell her she's beautiful pay attention to her

00:36:56.219 --> 00:36:59.019
in crowds in front of people that that those

00:36:59.019 --> 00:37:01.059
are the kinds of things that will make a woman

00:37:01.059 --> 00:37:05.340
feel that bond that connection that desire um

00:37:05.340 --> 00:37:07.920
that will bring her back and make her and it

00:37:07.920 --> 00:37:11.019
makes her not want to do it to please you. It

00:37:11.019 --> 00:37:12.880
makes her want to do it because she's feeling

00:37:12.880 --> 00:37:15.880
in love with you, you know? So that's, that's

00:37:15.880 --> 00:37:18.260
kind of the way to a woman's heart. With men,

00:37:18.380 --> 00:37:23.780
it's really about validation mostly because men,

00:37:23.860 --> 00:37:27.719
men are doing their best, but they're not getting

00:37:27.719 --> 00:37:31.639
a lot of feedback on it, I feel like. So appreciation

00:37:31.639 --> 00:37:35.960
for like how hard they work and saying thank

00:37:35.960 --> 00:37:42.480
you. And also, once you are in an intimate situation

00:37:42.480 --> 00:37:47.659
with a man, being open to your own pleasure,

00:37:47.780 --> 00:37:54.079
being unafraid to let go, you know, because that

00:37:54.079 --> 00:37:57.400
that's what really gets like men. Their biggest

00:37:57.400 --> 00:38:01.260
thing in the bedroom is like, how is she enjoying

00:38:01.260 --> 00:38:04.800
this? Women are like, does he think I look fat?

00:38:04.900 --> 00:38:07.889
You know. oh my God, he touched my stomach. He

00:38:07.889 --> 00:38:10.070
touched that roll on my stomach, you know, or

00:38:10.070 --> 00:38:11.849
something. That's the kind of thing that a woman

00:38:11.849 --> 00:38:13.650
will think that will take her out of the moment.

00:38:13.989 --> 00:38:17.250
And men will be taken out of the moment because

00:38:17.250 --> 00:38:19.530
they're like, am I pleasuring her? Is she happy?

00:38:19.630 --> 00:38:23.429
Is this working? Am I doing it right? And a lot

00:38:23.429 --> 00:38:25.530
of women don't realize it, but they're just too

00:38:25.530 --> 00:38:29.730
quiet, you know? Like just a little bit of feedback

00:38:29.730 --> 00:38:32.389
would make a big difference in their relationships,

00:38:32.570 --> 00:38:36.079
you know? And they'll see that being Having a

00:38:36.079 --> 00:38:41.420
little more verbal communication in those encounters

00:38:41.420 --> 00:38:44.239
actually can make it so much better. But people

00:38:44.239 --> 00:38:47.780
don't realize that because they fear to make

00:38:47.780 --> 00:38:50.300
noise. They fear to make a funny face. They fear

00:38:50.300 --> 00:38:54.280
to bend forward and have their stomach hang or

00:38:54.280 --> 00:38:57.019
their, you know, all the normal things of being

00:38:57.019 --> 00:39:00.639
human. But it's like instead of being in our

00:39:00.639 --> 00:39:04.119
fear, we need to get into our connection. Instead

00:39:04.119 --> 00:39:07.500
of focusing on does this person like what I'm

00:39:07.500 --> 00:39:09.780
doing or does this person like me, we should

00:39:09.780 --> 00:39:13.059
be focusing on how can I connect with this person.

00:39:13.840 --> 00:39:17.079
And then the connection is what will lead to

00:39:17.079 --> 00:39:21.460
the really amazing encounters, right? Right,

00:39:21.460 --> 00:39:25.219
right. When you began your answer, I sort of

00:39:25.219 --> 00:39:27.500
started to get this feeling that you certainly

00:39:27.500 --> 00:39:31.260
favored the touch more than the communication.

00:39:32.090 --> 00:39:33.690
And you mentioned it, you said communication

00:39:33.690 --> 00:39:36.909
is important, but, you know, because to most

00:39:36.909 --> 00:39:39.550
of us, we always hear about communicating. Communicating

00:39:39.550 --> 00:39:41.989
is so important. It's so crucial, right? But

00:39:41.989 --> 00:39:43.190
then, you know, towards the end, especially when

00:39:43.190 --> 00:39:45.030
you're talking about men, we talk about men,

00:39:45.190 --> 00:39:46.929
you know, giving compliments to women, you know,

00:39:46.929 --> 00:39:50.610
those are verbal responses and verbal affirmation.

00:39:50.630 --> 00:39:53.489
So there is communication there, right? So what

00:39:53.489 --> 00:39:56.809
I just want to make sure is that, and correct

00:39:56.809 --> 00:39:59.849
me if I'm wrong, but... favoring touch is probably

00:39:59.849 --> 00:40:02.230
a good starting point, but you don't give up

00:40:02.230 --> 00:40:05.710
on communication entirely, right? There are aspects

00:40:05.710 --> 00:40:08.070
of communication that are important, right, to

00:40:08.070 --> 00:40:11.469
maintain. I mean, I think communication is like

00:40:11.469 --> 00:40:15.510
the most important thing, honestly. But the problem

00:40:15.510 --> 00:40:21.809
is how we're communicating. And often when we're

00:40:21.809 --> 00:40:23.969
communicating, especially about this subject,

00:40:24.110 --> 00:40:29.000
feelings get hurt really easily. Or we say things

00:40:29.000 --> 00:40:32.119
in a way that the other person takes it different

00:40:32.119 --> 00:40:35.480
from how we actually mean it. And it just, like,

00:40:35.519 --> 00:40:38.639
for instance, like, imagine a man saying to a

00:40:38.639 --> 00:40:41.300
woman, like, I can't live without sex for the

00:40:41.300 --> 00:40:45.239
rest of my life. You know, like, when can I expect

00:40:45.239 --> 00:40:48.349
to have sex again? like I've been cleaning dishes

00:40:48.349 --> 00:40:50.530
every night for a week I just bought you that

00:40:50.530 --> 00:40:54.670
beautiful ring I you know I I work my ass off

00:40:54.670 --> 00:40:56.949
for you like and you don't won't even give me

00:40:56.949 --> 00:41:01.090
sex you know and like a woman isn't going to

00:41:01.090 --> 00:41:04.630
respond well to that that's communication but

00:41:04.630 --> 00:41:06.550
she's going to feel hurt she's going to feel

00:41:06.550 --> 00:41:08.610
upset she's going to that she's going to blame

00:41:08.610 --> 00:41:11.860
you Yeah, but what about when you were criticizing

00:41:11.860 --> 00:41:15.539
me for making that meal the other night? You

00:41:15.539 --> 00:41:20.079
know, or whatever, right? So in that way, communication

00:41:20.079 --> 00:41:25.260
has to be done delicately. It has to be done

00:41:25.260 --> 00:41:30.940
in a very vulnerable, open way. And I think understanding

00:41:30.940 --> 00:41:35.320
your partner. better can help you do that. Because

00:41:35.320 --> 00:41:38.260
if you don't understand why they might be pulling

00:41:38.260 --> 00:41:41.500
away, um, and, and the reasons are usually pretty

00:41:41.500 --> 00:41:45.199
typical in any situation. So it's not like, um,

00:41:45.300 --> 00:41:47.320
it's not like it's different for people with

00:41:47.320 --> 00:41:49.139
disabilities. We just feel like it's different

00:41:49.139 --> 00:41:52.500
because we feel like our disability is what's

00:41:52.500 --> 00:41:55.940
making someone not want to touch us, you know?

00:41:56.239 --> 00:41:59.679
Of course. Of course. So obviously to be able

00:41:59.679 --> 00:42:02.559
to be comfortable with intimacy and acts of intimacy,

00:42:03.309 --> 00:42:05.769
You kind of have to be comfortable with the body

00:42:05.769 --> 00:42:10.190
that you live in. You know, IBD surgeries, ostomies,

00:42:10.329 --> 00:42:14.530
it really does mess with the body image of the

00:42:14.530 --> 00:42:19.050
patients. What do you wish that people would

00:42:19.050 --> 00:42:24.210
understand better about a body that changes because

00:42:24.210 --> 00:42:28.849
of IBD? I think one of the biggest things that

00:42:28.849 --> 00:42:32.409
I wish... that people would understand and I

00:42:32.409 --> 00:42:37.329
really highly promote to all my clients. People

00:42:37.329 --> 00:42:43.050
who can't have penetrative intercourse often

00:42:43.050 --> 00:42:46.449
just give up. They give up. No one's ever going

00:42:46.449 --> 00:42:49.630
to want to have sex with this limp. you know

00:42:49.630 --> 00:42:51.849
or no one you know no man's ever going to want

00:42:51.849 --> 00:42:55.349
me because I can't do it so this this is like

00:42:55.349 --> 00:42:57.829
extreme these are people like they they fear

00:42:57.829 --> 00:42:59.530
they're never going to be able to have penetrative

00:42:59.530 --> 00:43:01.449
sex again and that means they can never have

00:43:01.449 --> 00:43:04.309
intimacy again and then there's the people who

00:43:04.309 --> 00:43:10.530
can do it that way but that's all they do let's

00:43:10.530 --> 00:43:15.110
get in there get out of there you know And so

00:43:15.110 --> 00:43:18.849
I like to promote a middle ground. If you can't

00:43:18.849 --> 00:43:22.030
obviously do penetrative sex, you find what you

00:43:22.030 --> 00:43:25.869
can do that works for you as a couple. But I

00:43:25.869 --> 00:43:30.289
like people to set aside a whole hour with no

00:43:30.289 --> 00:43:33.630
distractions, no phones, have some ambiance.

00:43:34.699 --> 00:43:37.119
Did I say that right? Ambience, ambience. Absolutely.

00:43:37.260 --> 00:43:40.739
No, ambience, yeah, that's great. And then spend

00:43:40.739 --> 00:43:45.440
a whole hour like dedicated to just naked hugging.

00:43:46.619 --> 00:43:48.719
Naked hugging. Naked hugging. Naked hugging,

00:43:48.880 --> 00:43:51.760
talking. Maybe you do make love, but if you do,

00:43:51.840 --> 00:43:55.780
don't walk away. Make sure you stay there for

00:43:55.780 --> 00:43:59.500
the full hour, you know, and dedicate that time

00:43:59.500 --> 00:44:02.960
to physical and emotional bonding. It builds

00:44:02.960 --> 00:44:06.289
the bond, right? Once you build the bond, like

00:44:06.289 --> 00:44:10.630
men, like we said, are more likely to be communicative.

00:44:10.650 --> 00:44:13.030
They're more likely to communicate and tell you

00:44:13.030 --> 00:44:16.110
their deepest fears and longings after they've

00:44:16.110 --> 00:44:18.250
experienced physical intimacy with you, because

00:44:18.250 --> 00:44:20.590
that's what releases the bonding hormones in

00:44:20.590 --> 00:44:24.650
men. But women need that conversation and that

00:44:24.650 --> 00:44:31.789
eye contact and the words of... affirmations

00:44:31.789 --> 00:44:34.730
of like beauty, you know, and desire, like you're

00:44:34.730 --> 00:44:37.489
so sexy and you look so good tonight and I love

00:44:37.489 --> 00:44:41.909
you in that dress. And so if we're lying there

00:44:41.909 --> 00:44:44.849
for a whole hour naked hugging and saying nice

00:44:44.849 --> 00:44:48.150
things to each other, it's pretty incredible

00:44:48.150 --> 00:44:52.050
what you can come out of with that. And it can

00:44:52.050 --> 00:44:55.429
be, it doesn't have to be like rules around the

00:44:55.429 --> 00:44:58.579
conversation or anything. You know, right. As

00:44:58.579 --> 00:45:01.280
long as nobody is the conversation police and

00:45:01.280 --> 00:45:03.539
everybody is respectful and kind and loving.

00:45:04.400 --> 00:45:08.480
You get through that whole hour and you walk

00:45:08.480 --> 00:45:11.079
out of the bedroom smiling or whatever room you're

00:45:11.079 --> 00:45:15.199
in. And it's just such so important. And it's

00:45:15.199 --> 00:45:18.500
so sad that I see so many women, especially who

00:45:18.500 --> 00:45:21.039
have kind of given up on intimacy in their relationships.

00:45:21.539 --> 00:45:24.519
And so many men who are like, what am I going

00:45:24.519 --> 00:45:28.699
to do now? I still believe that there's this

00:45:28.699 --> 00:45:32.219
cultural obsession out there with flat stomachs,

00:45:32.219 --> 00:45:34.840
right? And now we're looking at IBD and ostomies.

00:45:35.019 --> 00:45:38.880
It's not just a bag. It's scars, right? It's

00:45:38.880 --> 00:45:41.719
potentially, you know, bloating. How do you think

00:45:41.719 --> 00:45:45.400
that it hits women with IBD and ostomies differently?

00:45:46.329 --> 00:45:48.690
I think there is an obsession, just like you

00:45:48.690 --> 00:45:51.570
say, especially in popular media with having

00:45:51.570 --> 00:45:54.510
like a perfect stomach. Like every time a celebrity

00:45:54.510 --> 00:45:57.070
has even a little bit of bloating there, you

00:45:57.070 --> 00:45:59.409
know, are they pregnant? Do they need to lose

00:45:59.409 --> 00:46:02.090
weight? So that kind of pressure is definitely

00:46:02.090 --> 00:46:04.289
on women coming from the adult entertainment

00:46:04.289 --> 00:46:07.590
industry where like I had like this perfect flat

00:46:07.590 --> 00:46:10.030
stomach. I was pretty devastated when it was

00:46:10.030 --> 00:46:13.150
gone. And now I do. I struggle with clothing

00:46:13.150 --> 00:46:16.679
choices like I want. Do I wear? something that

00:46:16.679 --> 00:46:19.920
if my bag gets a little bit of air in it or anything

00:46:19.920 --> 00:46:22.320
that it won't be noticeable or do I just keep

00:46:22.320 --> 00:46:24.260
my eye on it all night so I can wear this really

00:46:24.260 --> 00:46:28.579
cute slimming dress so those are definitely considerations

00:46:28.579 --> 00:46:31.420
and it is hard then that's one of the things

00:46:31.420 --> 00:46:34.900
I'm trying to do by showing pictures of me half

00:46:34.900 --> 00:46:39.539
naked on my socials is to show my scars and show

00:46:39.539 --> 00:46:42.480
my bag and and it was hard I mean people say

00:46:42.480 --> 00:46:46.699
I make it look easy but it It's scary. It's scary

00:46:46.699 --> 00:46:51.099
to just expose myself like that. But I do want

00:46:51.099 --> 00:46:55.000
to normalize a little belly. I do want to normalize

00:46:55.000 --> 00:46:59.579
scars and a bag. But especially the belly, because

00:46:59.579 --> 00:47:04.960
every woman has a little bit of a belly as they

00:47:04.960 --> 00:47:07.909
get older. You know, and even some of the young

00:47:07.909 --> 00:47:11.929
women. I mean, that flat, youthful stomach that

00:47:11.929 --> 00:47:15.050
we had before we had babies and before our surgeries

00:47:15.050 --> 00:47:17.809
and before we got older, even if we didn't have

00:47:17.809 --> 00:47:19.750
surgeries, they're not going to be there forever.

00:47:19.969 --> 00:47:22.050
I mean, there are a few lucky older women you

00:47:22.050 --> 00:47:25.630
see that are just like buff. There's always a

00:47:25.630 --> 00:47:29.489
few lucky ones. Yeah, there's always a few. But

00:47:29.489 --> 00:47:31.710
the majority of us, we got a little bit more,

00:47:31.750 --> 00:47:36.809
you know, cushiony in the different places. When

00:47:36.809 --> 00:47:40.489
you have some people like me and other ostomates

00:47:40.489 --> 00:47:44.269
and other people with different bodies being

00:47:44.269 --> 00:47:47.550
comfortable and proud of how they look and being

00:47:47.550 --> 00:47:52.489
confident. And when you see other people responding

00:47:52.489 --> 00:47:55.610
to that positively, then it gives you more courage.

00:47:55.989 --> 00:47:58.510
And I have to say, and I have to admit this,

00:47:58.590 --> 00:48:02.800
as much as I hate social media. Now being very

00:48:02.800 --> 00:48:05.840
active in this field, especially also, you know,

00:48:05.880 --> 00:48:09.960
in my mission to raise IBD awareness, I am, it's

00:48:09.960 --> 00:48:12.739
really beautiful to see, you know, people like

00:48:12.739 --> 00:48:16.219
you and many more, especially women and men also,

00:48:16.280 --> 00:48:19.840
who actually are not afraid or no longer afraid

00:48:19.840 --> 00:48:23.480
to show their ostomies, to show their bags, right?

00:48:23.539 --> 00:48:26.199
To show themselves in bikinis. And, you know,

00:48:26.199 --> 00:48:27.739
I talk a lot about, I mean, we're not even going

00:48:27.739 --> 00:48:30.059
to dive into social media and insecurities related

00:48:30.059 --> 00:48:32.250
to social media with, you know, what people are

00:48:32.250 --> 00:48:35.269
posting. But, you know, when I see estimates,

00:48:35.510 --> 00:48:37.190
you know, sort of like just probably displaying

00:48:37.190 --> 00:48:40.230
themselves on social media and, you know, you

00:48:40.230 --> 00:48:42.510
actually take the time to read the comments,

00:48:42.550 --> 00:48:45.530
dive into the engagement. It's all about hope.

00:48:45.630 --> 00:48:47.710
It's all about inspiration. It's all about finding

00:48:47.710 --> 00:48:51.219
security. So there seems to be a movement. into

00:48:51.219 --> 00:48:53.699
very positive directions with people, men and

00:48:53.699 --> 00:48:56.199
women, becoming more comfortable and sort of

00:48:56.199 --> 00:49:01.079
really leading this inspiration to be okay with

00:49:01.079 --> 00:49:04.199
that new body that you find yourself in, right?

00:49:04.360 --> 00:49:07.559
And that's something beautiful to see. It helped

00:49:07.559 --> 00:49:10.960
me a lot. It did. It helped me a lot. And something

00:49:10.960 --> 00:49:13.880
I've also learned from doing my coaching is about

00:49:13.880 --> 00:49:17.139
how people who have been like poked and prodded

00:49:17.139 --> 00:49:19.420
our whole lives, it's very empowering for us

00:49:19.420 --> 00:49:22.699
to kind of take back control of how we show our

00:49:22.699 --> 00:49:26.820
bodies to people. And so in the process of doing

00:49:26.820 --> 00:49:31.139
photos and videos and exposing our bodies with

00:49:31.139 --> 00:49:34.079
our bags, we're actually taking back some of

00:49:34.079 --> 00:49:36.480
the control that we feel we've lost over our

00:49:36.480 --> 00:49:40.070
own bodies. Absolutely. Absolutely. So as we

00:49:40.070 --> 00:49:44.190
now come to closer to the end here, I want to

00:49:44.190 --> 00:49:47.469
finish with a few thoughts on empowerment, but

00:49:47.469 --> 00:49:49.429
also a couple of practical takeaways when it

00:49:49.429 --> 00:49:51.230
comes to body and intimacy, especially in the

00:49:51.230 --> 00:49:57.530
context of IBD. So tell me from you, the intimacy

00:49:57.530 --> 00:50:01.750
coach, what is one key mindset shift that you

00:50:01.750 --> 00:50:07.039
want every IBD patient to try? I mean, my biggest

00:50:07.039 --> 00:50:10.500
thing is the visualization. And it's where you

00:50:10.500 --> 00:50:15.219
literally imagine yourself living out all the

00:50:15.219 --> 00:50:19.159
things that you fear. But in your visualization,

00:50:19.239 --> 00:50:24.699
it all goes perfectly, perfectly well. Absolutely,

00:50:24.800 --> 00:50:28.639
100 % awesomely well. And you just keep visualizing

00:50:28.639 --> 00:50:31.719
that. And it's amazing what a difference it makes,

00:50:31.780 --> 00:50:35.739
like a huge difference. And then self -talk,

00:50:35.760 --> 00:50:38.219
I always have to mention. Self -talk is where

00:50:38.219 --> 00:50:43.239
everything begins. It is. So if I come to you

00:50:43.239 --> 00:50:45.699
as somebody who's very timid and kind of embarrassed

00:50:45.699 --> 00:50:51.940
and I asked you, okay, but in one or two sentences,

00:50:52.059 --> 00:50:55.980
how do I start visualization? Just like, how

00:50:55.980 --> 00:50:58.679
do I do this? What would you tell me? I would

00:50:58.679 --> 00:51:03.469
say, sit down, close your eyes. And then imagine

00:51:03.469 --> 00:51:08.170
a future scenario of the thing that you fear.

00:51:08.349 --> 00:51:11.489
So for me, for instance, I was scared of what

00:51:11.489 --> 00:51:13.489
it would be like to make love with an ostomy

00:51:13.489 --> 00:51:16.309
bag. I was scared I wouldn't be able to dance

00:51:16.309 --> 00:51:19.789
or go swimming or stand in front of a crowd and

00:51:19.789 --> 00:51:23.369
speak because what if it farted? I had all these

00:51:23.369 --> 00:51:26.500
fears before I had the second. the second surgery

00:51:26.500 --> 00:51:30.519
but when I visualized myself doing those things

00:51:30.519 --> 00:51:34.559
with the bag and everything went fine in each

00:51:34.559 --> 00:51:38.059
of those scenarios after a very short time of

00:51:38.059 --> 00:51:41.099
doing that just closing my eyes for five minutes

00:51:41.099 --> 00:51:44.559
or less a day and I even had a soundtrack I recommend

00:51:44.559 --> 00:51:46.960
having a soundtrack like something that you feel

00:51:46.960 --> 00:51:50.019
music that you feel empowered by and you listen

00:51:50.019 --> 00:51:53.780
to it while you visualize that. And I recommend

00:51:53.780 --> 00:51:56.559
having a script. So you do it exactly the same,

00:51:56.559 --> 00:51:59.460
the same visualization every time. So you're

00:51:59.460 --> 00:52:02.300
putting yourself into the same situations every

00:52:02.300 --> 00:52:05.760
time. And they might change slightly, but every

00:52:05.760 --> 00:52:08.280
time it comes out fine. And you don't let any

00:52:08.280 --> 00:52:10.739
bad come into your visualization. So you're not

00:52:10.739 --> 00:52:12.579
in the middle of making love with a bag and then

00:52:12.579 --> 00:52:17.199
it leaks. No. Sure. No, no, of course. Give me

00:52:17.199 --> 00:52:20.019
the same brief step -by -step for self -talk.

00:52:20.480 --> 00:52:23.420
Self -talk is, first of all, catching yourself.

00:52:24.179 --> 00:52:26.119
And a lot of people don't think their self -talk

00:52:26.119 --> 00:52:28.599
is that bad. When I first say, you know, tell

00:52:28.599 --> 00:52:30.400
me about your self -talk, they're like, it's

00:52:30.400 --> 00:52:33.699
not that bad. But then when they start to pay

00:52:33.699 --> 00:52:36.099
attention, they start to realize, oh, wow, yeah,

00:52:36.199 --> 00:52:39.300
I do say a lot of negative things. Like, I can't

00:52:39.300 --> 00:52:42.780
do that. I'm too tired. I'm too sick. I'm not

00:52:42.780 --> 00:52:45.639
going to be able to. I'll never be able to. So

00:52:45.639 --> 00:52:49.000
all that negative self -talk, start to catch

00:52:49.000 --> 00:52:52.599
yourself. And when you catch yourself, stop and

00:52:52.599 --> 00:52:55.780
change it to something the opposite. And it's

00:52:55.780 --> 00:52:59.179
okay if the opposite sounds ridiculous. You know,

00:52:59.179 --> 00:53:01.719
if I'm like walking through the house and I bang

00:53:01.719 --> 00:53:05.599
my knee on something and I go, oh, I knew that

00:53:05.599 --> 00:53:09.760
was there. I'm so stupid that I stop and I go,

00:53:09.840 --> 00:53:13.579
I'm not stupid. I am incredibly intelligent.

00:53:13.900 --> 00:53:16.539
I'm the smartest woman on the planet. It makes

00:53:16.539 --> 00:53:21.380
me laugh. It rewires what I've just told my subconscious

00:53:21.380 --> 00:53:24.659
because our subconscious believes anything we

00:53:24.659 --> 00:53:28.400
repeatedly tell it. And so and then it gets me

00:53:28.400 --> 00:53:30.099
in a good mood. So I'm also having a positive

00:53:30.099 --> 00:53:34.039
emotion with that, you know, positive self -talk.

00:53:34.179 --> 00:53:36.760
And if you could catch yourself and do that every

00:53:36.760 --> 00:53:40.039
time you catch yourself, it makes such a big

00:53:40.039 --> 00:53:43.599
difference. Like you might spend, it might take

00:53:43.599 --> 00:53:46.000
a long time for you to be able to stop yourself.

00:53:46.739 --> 00:53:49.579
from saying the negative things you might catch

00:53:49.579 --> 00:53:51.340
yourself halfway through you might catch not

00:53:51.340 --> 00:53:53.019
even be able to catch it till you've already

00:53:53.019 --> 00:53:55.760
said it eventually you'll catch yourself before

00:53:55.760 --> 00:53:59.420
you say it but it takes learning to catch yourself

00:53:59.420 --> 00:54:02.800
and then saying the positive and then the other

00:54:02.800 --> 00:54:06.280
part of it is to have like a list of affirmations

00:54:06.280 --> 00:54:08.280
of all the things that you actually want to believe

00:54:08.280 --> 00:54:10.239
about yourself and just reading it every day

00:54:10.920 --> 00:54:12.940
I mean, it makes such a big difference. Like

00:54:12.940 --> 00:54:15.659
I used to, I've had the same affirmations for

00:54:15.659 --> 00:54:18.719
years and now I can look at my affirmation list

00:54:18.719 --> 00:54:21.719
and I actually believe almost everything on that

00:54:21.719 --> 00:54:24.539
list. You know, one of the things I don't believe

00:54:24.539 --> 00:54:29.300
is I'm a billionaire. That'll come later. Oh

00:54:29.300 --> 00:54:33.840
boy. But you know, like I do feel like I'm charming

00:54:33.840 --> 00:54:40.469
and I do feel like I'm irresistible. But I didn't

00:54:40.469 --> 00:54:42.409
feel that way when I started my affirmations.

00:54:42.530 --> 00:54:47.750
And they're so, so fascinating that we can program

00:54:47.750 --> 00:54:51.050
our subconscious to believe whatever we repeatedly

00:54:51.050 --> 00:54:53.630
tell it. It really is amazing. Like you just

00:54:53.630 --> 00:54:55.969
said, you didn't feel irresistible at one point,

00:54:55.989 --> 00:54:58.989
and it took a journey to get to the point where

00:54:58.989 --> 00:55:04.130
you feel it. So now, based on your... IBD journey

00:55:04.130 --> 00:55:07.469
based on your experiences, based on the work

00:55:07.469 --> 00:55:10.690
that you do as an intimacy coach. If you look

00:55:10.690 --> 00:55:14.010
back, what is one thing that you wish you had

00:55:14.010 --> 00:55:17.489
been told earlier about IBD in your journey?

00:55:18.070 --> 00:55:22.809
I guess, honestly, I think it really relates

00:55:22.809 --> 00:55:26.369
to my purpose of trying to help people with touch

00:55:26.369 --> 00:55:29.949
starvation. I wish that someone had told me that

00:55:29.949 --> 00:55:35.409
touch is a need, not a want. Because babies can

00:55:35.409 --> 00:55:38.230
literally die without it, and just because we

00:55:38.230 --> 00:55:40.710
grow up and become adults doesn't mean we don't

00:55:40.710 --> 00:55:44.309
need it anymore. And then I would have maybe

00:55:44.309 --> 00:55:47.949
made more of an effort to have my touch needs

00:55:47.949 --> 00:55:53.349
met, or at least understood why I was feeling

00:55:53.349 --> 00:55:56.150
the way I was feeling. Because when you're not

00:55:56.150 --> 00:55:58.809
touched for a long time, you might not consciously

00:55:58.809 --> 00:56:02.630
realize it, but you subconsciously... Begin to

00:56:02.630 --> 00:56:05.570
believe that you're not worthy of touch. And

00:56:05.570 --> 00:56:09.050
that can have really devastating impacts on your

00:56:09.050 --> 00:56:13.469
self -esteem and your health. Your final message

00:56:13.469 --> 00:56:19.110
to someone who feels unlovable because of Crohn's

00:56:19.110 --> 00:56:23.070
or colitis. You are not unlovable at all. You

00:56:23.070 --> 00:56:29.150
were put on this earth to be here and learn and

00:56:29.150 --> 00:56:33.750
you have a purpose. You're not dead yet. That's

00:56:33.750 --> 00:56:37.309
how I know. If you weren't supposed to do something

00:56:37.309 --> 00:56:40.090
or be someone, then you wouldn't still be here.

00:56:40.690 --> 00:56:44.369
So get off your ass. Stop feeling sorry for yourself.

00:56:45.469 --> 00:56:48.210
And get to work on whatever your purpose is.

00:56:48.369 --> 00:56:50.909
And if you can't do that without a little help,

00:56:51.030 --> 00:56:55.329
I'm here for you. Reach out. That's a perfect

00:56:55.329 --> 00:56:58.489
way to wrap things up. Trina, thank you so much

00:56:58.489 --> 00:57:02.190
for sharing your insight, for sharing your experience.

00:57:05.239 --> 00:57:07.480
coaching, but you're also active on social media.

00:57:07.619 --> 00:57:10.880
You're also podcasting. We're going to put all

00:57:10.880 --> 00:57:13.119
of that information in the show notes as well

00:57:13.119 --> 00:57:16.480
for our listeners to find you and seek you out.

00:57:16.820 --> 00:57:19.780
I wish you nothing but the best on your continuing

00:57:19.780 --> 00:57:21.500
journey. I think the insights that you provided

00:57:21.500 --> 00:57:24.099
today are really, really fascinating to me. And

00:57:24.099 --> 00:57:27.260
I think you'll agree with me and I don't want

00:57:27.260 --> 00:57:30.090
to put words in your mouth, but... Intimacy is

00:57:30.090 --> 00:57:31.849
not talked about enough, especially in relation

00:57:31.849 --> 00:57:34.309
to chronic illness. And I think the conversation

00:57:34.309 --> 00:57:38.349
today will at least kickstart some thinking or

00:57:38.349 --> 00:57:41.050
critical thinking. I think a lot of people that

00:57:41.050 --> 00:57:46.329
are going through body change and potential insecurities.

00:57:46.429 --> 00:57:47.969
So thank you so much for sharing your insight

00:57:47.969 --> 00:57:51.530
again. And I wish you nothing but the best. You

00:57:51.530 --> 00:57:53.630
as well. Thank you for having me. This has been

00:57:53.630 --> 00:57:57.630
wonderful. That's it for today's episode of Colitis

00:57:57.630 --> 00:58:00.570
Unfiltered. I'm Frank Klebering, and if this

00:58:00.570 --> 00:58:03.989
hit home or hit your gut, do us a favor. Subscribe

00:58:03.989 --> 00:58:07.150
to the show and follow us at Kaleidos Unfiltered

00:58:07.150 --> 00:58:10.489
on YouTube, Substack, Instagram, Threads, TikTok,

00:58:10.750 --> 00:58:13.389
and Reddit. We'll see you soon for more inspiring

00:58:13.389 --> 00:58:14.949
stories from the bathroom floor.