WEBVTT 00:00:02.579 --> 00:00:06.259 When I was pregnant, I felt great. I had no symptoms, 00:00:06.379 --> 00:00:10.060 no flares. So on my own accord, I stopped all 00:00:10.060 --> 00:00:13.240 of my medications, which worked during my pregnancy. 00:00:13.439 --> 00:00:15.279 But then when my daughter was about, you know, 00:00:15.279 --> 00:00:18.140 three and a half, four months old, my body flared 00:00:18.140 --> 00:00:21.559 like with a vengeance. This is Nadia, who got 00:00:21.559 --> 00:00:24.780 diagnosed with ulcerative colitis at age 15 in 00:00:24.780 --> 00:00:27.710 Toronto, Canada. After managing her digestive 00:00:27.710 --> 00:00:31.429 disease for 25 years, Nadia received a colorectal 00:00:31.429 --> 00:00:35.070 cancer diagnosis in 2022. Today, she's telling 00:00:35.070 --> 00:00:37.929 us all about her IBD journey and how she navigates 00:00:37.929 --> 00:00:40.909 life with an ostomy. This is Talking S***, presented 00:00:40.909 --> 00:00:43.789 by Colitis Unfiltered. My name is Frank Tabering, 00:00:43.829 --> 00:00:46.810 and Nadia, welcome to the show. Thanks so much 00:00:46.810 --> 00:00:50.250 for having me. To set the context, I would like 00:00:50.250 --> 00:00:53.689 to start off and jump right into your IBD journey. 00:00:53.869 --> 00:00:56.469 So I think in a few sentences, if you could just 00:00:56.469 --> 00:00:59.710 give us an overview of the timeline from diagnosis, 00:00:59.789 --> 00:01:05.189 but also to how you are today. So I was diagnosed 00:01:05.189 --> 00:01:08.450 with IBD, specifically ulcerative colitis, when 00:01:08.450 --> 00:01:12.030 I was 15 years old. I was having some symptoms, 00:01:12.069 --> 00:01:14.650 you know, for a few months. And then when I finally 00:01:14.650 --> 00:01:18.430 had a colonoscopy just a couple weeks before 00:01:18.430 --> 00:01:22.530 my 16th birthday, that's when I got my IBD diagnosis. 00:01:22.609 --> 00:01:27.269 So I lived with IBD for about 25 years, right? 00:01:27.390 --> 00:01:30.510 I did, you know, clinical trials, different medications, 00:01:30.829 --> 00:01:35.730 all of that. 2022, I was diagnosed with colorectal 00:01:35.730 --> 00:01:39.530 cancer, early stages, and now I live with a permanent 00:01:39.530 --> 00:01:43.609 ileostomy. In the time sort of since your diagnosis, 00:01:43.609 --> 00:01:47.909 before your cancer diagnosis, were you in remission? 00:01:47.909 --> 00:01:50.810 Were you stable? Did you have flare -ups? Like, 00:01:50.890 --> 00:01:53.269 how did you feel over that long period of time? 00:01:54.049 --> 00:01:57.430 So it was a long period of very up and down. 00:01:57.530 --> 00:02:00.530 So with IBD, you know, flares can come at any 00:02:00.530 --> 00:02:04.409 time. And I went through quite a few of them, 00:02:04.469 --> 00:02:07.090 some of them, you know, more severe than others 00:02:07.090 --> 00:02:09.370 and treated, you know, with a number of different 00:02:09.370 --> 00:02:11.990 medications. So, you know, it was a constant, 00:02:12.050 --> 00:02:14.650 you know, roller coaster, right, of emotions 00:02:14.650 --> 00:02:18.349 for sure. And, you know, I did go through some 00:02:18.349 --> 00:02:21.189 periods of remission, you know, especially before 00:02:21.189 --> 00:02:23.689 my cancer diagnosis, I was at. Like, you know, 00:02:23.689 --> 00:02:26.250 a four and a half, almost five year remission, 00:02:26.289 --> 00:02:30.169 right? So that was a big win for me. And just, 00:02:30.270 --> 00:02:32.590 you know, it took a lot out of me emotionally, 00:02:32.830 --> 00:02:35.229 right? To be constantly, you know, worried about, 00:02:35.310 --> 00:02:37.150 you know, when I'm going to flare, if I'm going 00:02:37.150 --> 00:02:39.430 to flare and, you know, when that kind of the 00:02:39.430 --> 00:02:42.370 ball was going to drop. So what I like to do 00:02:42.370 --> 00:02:44.569 typically on this show is I would like to take 00:02:44.569 --> 00:02:46.229 the audience on a journey. And then usually I 00:02:46.229 --> 00:02:48.509 start with the past, you know, look at the present 00:02:48.509 --> 00:02:50.930 and then go into the future. So let's go back 00:02:50.930 --> 00:02:54.020 to the basics, essentially. What were your first 00:02:54.020 --> 00:02:56.639 symptoms, you know, that showed up where you 00:02:56.639 --> 00:02:58.680 thought, you know what, something is really wrong 00:02:58.680 --> 00:03:00.340 here. I better get this checked out. Take us 00:03:00.340 --> 00:03:02.960 through that a little bit. So my first symptoms 00:03:02.960 --> 00:03:06.340 were, you know, intense abdominal cramping, right? 00:03:06.439 --> 00:03:08.900 Having to use the washroom a lot, having, you 00:03:08.900 --> 00:03:11.620 know, blood in my stool. And, you know, the blood 00:03:11.620 --> 00:03:14.780 was like just so scary, a huge red flag. And, 00:03:14.860 --> 00:03:16.819 you know, that's when I knew this, something 00:03:16.819 --> 00:03:21.099 has to be checked. Putting yourself back into 00:03:21.099 --> 00:03:25.159 the moment where you were diagnosed, how did 00:03:25.159 --> 00:03:27.639 the doctor, if you remember, and especially you 00:03:27.639 --> 00:03:31.039 were 15, so you take these news completely differently 00:03:31.039 --> 00:03:34.520 than somebody age 29 like me or even older, how 00:03:34.520 --> 00:03:36.439 did the doctor break the news to you? Do you 00:03:36.439 --> 00:03:38.780 remember that? And also, what went through your 00:03:38.780 --> 00:03:43.590 mind at that very specific time? So I remember 00:03:43.590 --> 00:03:45.669 being in hospital and I remember, you know, my 00:03:45.669 --> 00:03:47.889 parents being with me, you know, I was still 00:03:47.889 --> 00:03:50.750 young, I was a minor. And so they told my parents 00:03:50.750 --> 00:03:53.710 as well as myself, like, I didn't know really 00:03:53.710 --> 00:03:56.110 what to expect. All I knew was that I was going 00:03:56.110 --> 00:03:58.889 to be having to take medication and take that 00:03:58.889 --> 00:04:03.020 medication daily. So to manage my disease. So 00:04:03.020 --> 00:04:06.120 it was scary. I have to say it was very scary 00:04:06.120 --> 00:04:09.300 because, again, I wasn't familiar at all with 00:04:09.300 --> 00:04:12.400 the with the diagnosis. So not having social 00:04:12.400 --> 00:04:15.840 media or anything at the time. Right. The Internet 00:04:15.840 --> 00:04:19.819 was not really, you know, a place for me to to 00:04:19.819 --> 00:04:24.160 search. So all I had really was my doctor. So 00:04:24.160 --> 00:04:26.000 that's actually a very good point because I always 00:04:26.000 --> 00:04:28.339 talk about educating yourself, especially if 00:04:28.339 --> 00:04:30.379 you have a doctor that might not go into too 00:04:30.379 --> 00:04:33.779 much detail, right? And then I would say people 00:04:33.779 --> 00:04:36.000 should be very careful about what they read on 00:04:36.000 --> 00:04:37.519 the internet as well. But with the lack of the 00:04:37.519 --> 00:04:39.360 internet, so you said you only had your doctor. 00:04:39.680 --> 00:04:42.740 Does that mean that your doctor was somebody 00:04:42.740 --> 00:04:45.019 that you could trust from the beginning, somebody 00:04:45.019 --> 00:04:48.259 that was proactive in terms of trying to attack 00:04:48.259 --> 00:04:50.620 the disease? What was your relationship with 00:04:50.620 --> 00:04:53.060 the doctor in the first, you know? months or 00:04:53.060 --> 00:04:57.199 years even at the beginning right because i also 00:04:57.199 --> 00:05:01.829 was so young i My only instinct was to just trust 00:05:01.829 --> 00:05:04.509 them and just do whatever they said. Right. I 00:05:04.509 --> 00:05:07.089 didn't really do too much of my own research 00:05:07.089 --> 00:05:09.730 at that time until I got a little bit older, 00:05:09.910 --> 00:05:12.269 until I was more familiar with different resources 00:05:12.269 --> 00:05:15.810 that were available to me. Right. There were 00:05:15.810 --> 00:05:18.850 some support groups that I found online. And, 00:05:18.870 --> 00:05:21.089 you know, through that, I also found, you know, 00:05:21.089 --> 00:05:23.310 someone that I actually went to high school with 00:05:23.310 --> 00:05:25.850 that also had the disease. And, you know, we 00:05:25.850 --> 00:05:27.870 ended up being in the same clinical trial like 00:05:27.870 --> 00:05:32.680 that. whole kind of thing so um that being said 00:05:32.680 --> 00:05:35.579 right like in terms of trusting my my physician 00:05:35.579 --> 00:05:38.519 at that young age yes i did have a lot of trust 00:05:38.519 --> 00:05:41.500 in my physician and i just kind of did whatever 00:05:41.500 --> 00:05:45.660 she told me to do at the time so we talked about 00:05:45.660 --> 00:05:48.199 it already 15 is a very young age especially 00:05:48.199 --> 00:05:51.480 to be confronted with such a this brutal disease 00:05:51.480 --> 00:05:55.079 if you look back not just age 15, but also the 00:05:55.079 --> 00:05:56.939 following years, sort of really those golden 00:05:56.939 --> 00:05:59.800 teenage years, how did you navigate the disease 00:05:59.800 --> 00:06:04.670 physically, but also mentally? At the time, I 00:06:04.670 --> 00:06:07.889 was super embarrassed and not open at all about 00:06:07.889 --> 00:06:11.970 my disease, especially because of the nature 00:06:11.970 --> 00:06:15.410 of the symptoms. I didn't share that with anybody. 00:06:15.610 --> 00:06:19.110 None of my friends knew. If I had a flare -up, 00:06:19.610 --> 00:06:23.269 I would just be away from school sick. I never 00:06:23.269 --> 00:06:25.750 disclosed what I was actually feeling or what 00:06:25.750 --> 00:06:30.379 I was actually going through. own turn like took 00:06:30.379 --> 00:06:33.160 a toll on me emotionally because I had to keep 00:06:33.160 --> 00:06:35.660 everything in I mean my family knew of course 00:06:35.660 --> 00:06:38.819 but it was hard to like you know keep all of 00:06:38.819 --> 00:06:42.279 these kind of like secrets so to speak from my 00:06:42.279 --> 00:06:46.060 close friends so then I'm assuming you also experienced 00:06:46.060 --> 00:06:48.540 this feeling that a lot of colitis patients experience 00:06:48.540 --> 00:06:50.560 no matter the age so this feeling of isolation 00:06:50.560 --> 00:06:54.139 and just wanting to be alone right yeah yeah 00:06:54.139 --> 00:06:57.750 that's for sure yeah so you had a period of 25 00:06:57.750 --> 00:07:00.110 years that you were, like I said, on and off 00:07:00.110 --> 00:07:04.250 remission, you know, and one thing that I kind 00:07:04.250 --> 00:07:06.170 of like to ask is because this is something that 00:07:06.170 --> 00:07:08.689 when I talk to people, they sometimes worry about, 00:07:08.829 --> 00:07:10.629 and this is sort of like burning through treatments, 00:07:10.769 --> 00:07:13.129 switching from one medication to the next. There's 00:07:13.129 --> 00:07:16.410 this trend that for people with severe colitis 00:07:16.410 --> 00:07:19.569 or moderate to severe colitis, very rarely you 00:07:19.569 --> 00:07:22.490 hear about them being on one treatment and that 00:07:22.490 --> 00:07:24.370 one treatment basically sticking with them for 00:07:24.370 --> 00:07:26.879 life. So could you... Quickly take us through 00:07:26.879 --> 00:07:29.300 some of the general treatments or medications 00:07:29.300 --> 00:07:31.920 that you went through, you know, over the years 00:07:31.920 --> 00:07:34.220 before you were diagnosed with colorectal cancer. 00:07:35.180 --> 00:07:38.600 Yeah, sure. So when I first was diagnosed, I 00:07:38.600 --> 00:07:41.920 was on a 5 -ASA anti -inflammatory drug called 00:07:41.920 --> 00:07:47.000 Pentassa. So I did that. I was on Imuran. Prednisone 00:07:47.000 --> 00:07:49.819 was prescribed to me for flare -ups, you know, 00:07:49.819 --> 00:07:52.040 and then, you know, it came to a point where 00:07:52.040 --> 00:07:55.779 prednisone wasn't really... working so much like 00:07:55.779 --> 00:08:00.399 for in my flares, right? So I switched to biologic 00:08:00.399 --> 00:08:03.560 medications. So the first biologic I did was 00:08:03.560 --> 00:08:07.740 in a clinical trial for Humira. That didn't really 00:08:07.740 --> 00:08:10.980 work for me personally. So then I went for, you 00:08:10.980 --> 00:08:13.279 know, another few years of, you know, eating 00:08:13.279 --> 00:08:16.240 a specific diet, trying different medications, 00:08:16.500 --> 00:08:19.160 trying natural remedies, doing all of the things. 00:08:19.439 --> 00:08:23.129 And, you know, I had When I was pregnant with 00:08:23.129 --> 00:08:26.730 my daughter, after I had her, I had one of the... 00:08:27.360 --> 00:08:30.920 most severe flare -ups I've ever had that lasted 00:08:30.920 --> 00:08:35.179 you know almost a year because I was just trying 00:08:35.179 --> 00:08:37.759 to do like so many things to try to get out of 00:08:37.759 --> 00:08:39.960 that flare which you know some things helped 00:08:39.960 --> 00:08:42.600 but eventually ended up going on a different 00:08:42.600 --> 00:08:45.980 biologic which was Remicade and Remicade worked 00:08:45.980 --> 00:08:49.179 for me for you know for again four or five years 00:08:49.179 --> 00:08:51.480 then I you know became resistant to that medication 00:08:51.480 --> 00:08:56.370 and that's when I was in my final, you know, 00:08:56.370 --> 00:08:59.330 clinical trial, final medication before remission, 00:08:59.330 --> 00:09:02.549 sorry, before my colorectal cancer diagnosis, 00:09:02.750 --> 00:09:08.460 which was RINVOC. Very rarely do I find stories 00:09:08.460 --> 00:09:12.039 or even information about pregnancy and ulcerative 00:09:12.039 --> 00:09:14.720 colitis and flaring. So I'm very interested to 00:09:14.720 --> 00:09:18.600 learn how you navigated pregnancy with colitis. 00:09:18.799 --> 00:09:21.059 Of course, you don't have anything to compare 00:09:21.059 --> 00:09:23.220 it to a pregnancy without colitis right before, 00:09:23.379 --> 00:09:27.259 but how did you navigate flaring or dealing with 00:09:27.259 --> 00:09:29.980 all the medication? Just take us through that 00:09:29.980 --> 00:09:32.909 a little bit. When I was pregnant, I felt great. 00:09:33.029 --> 00:09:37.289 I had no symptoms, no flares. So on my own accord, 00:09:37.509 --> 00:09:41.029 I stopped all of my medications, right? Which 00:09:41.029 --> 00:09:43.570 worked during my pregnancy. But then when my 00:09:43.570 --> 00:09:45.149 daughter was about, you know, three and a half, 00:09:45.169 --> 00:09:48.509 four months old, my body flared like with a vengeance. 00:09:48.750 --> 00:09:53.090 You know what I mean? So, yeah. It was your decision 00:09:53.090 --> 00:09:54.730 essentially to stop the medications. It's not 00:09:54.730 --> 00:09:56.549 like the doctor recommended it. Like you could 00:09:56.549 --> 00:09:58.570 have stayed on the medications throughout the 00:09:58.570 --> 00:10:02.340 pregnancy without any. Brisk, right? That's right. 00:10:02.919 --> 00:10:05.039 You mentioned that you went through high school, 00:10:05.039 --> 00:10:07.480 I believe, right? With somebody that had colitis 00:10:07.480 --> 00:10:11.240 as well. Do you feel like having that relationship 00:10:11.240 --> 00:10:13.720 or that connection with that person, that was 00:10:13.720 --> 00:10:16.799 sort of a springboard for you to open up about 00:10:16.799 --> 00:10:19.279 the disease more? Or was there something else 00:10:19.279 --> 00:10:22.820 in life, maybe just... just getting older, that 00:10:22.820 --> 00:10:25.340 enabled you to actually come out of your shell, 00:10:25.460 --> 00:10:27.759 to sort of beat your loneliness and to also openly 00:10:27.759 --> 00:10:30.519 speak about the disease more. When did that happen 00:10:30.519 --> 00:10:34.960 and why did it happen? Because of what? The person 00:10:34.960 --> 00:10:36.740 that I mentioned that I went to high school with, 00:10:36.799 --> 00:10:38.559 we ended up finding each other when we were in 00:10:38.559 --> 00:10:40.840 the clinical trial. So it was many years after 00:10:40.840 --> 00:10:43.500 high school was over. And so we just came to 00:10:43.500 --> 00:10:46.419 learn that we both had colitis in high school, 00:10:46.519 --> 00:10:49.669 but we both didn't know. Right. So we both had 00:10:49.669 --> 00:10:52.590 the same approach of, you know, not telling anybody, 00:10:52.750 --> 00:10:54.990 keeping it a secret, you know, being embarrassed, 00:10:55.330 --> 00:10:57.889 feeling lonely. We all we shared all of those 00:10:57.889 --> 00:11:01.210 sentiments. But in high school, you know, I started 00:11:01.210 --> 00:11:04.870 dating my now husband. Right. And, you know, 00:11:04.889 --> 00:11:08.350 I remember flaring pretty early in our relationship 00:11:08.350 --> 00:11:11.470 and I. He was the actual first person, you know, 00:11:11.490 --> 00:11:14.509 outside of like my immediate family that I told 00:11:14.509 --> 00:11:18.549 about my diagnosis. And ever since then, he's 00:11:18.549 --> 00:11:20.710 never, you know, judged me for it. He's never 00:11:20.710 --> 00:11:25.330 always like took care of me. So I am very grateful 00:11:25.330 --> 00:11:28.269 for that. So in terms of, you know, having somebody 00:11:28.269 --> 00:11:31.210 to talk to, not somebody that actually had the 00:11:31.210 --> 00:11:33.730 disease, but I did have him, you know, to talk 00:11:33.730 --> 00:11:36.470 to and to navigate like, you know, through some 00:11:36.470 --> 00:11:38.970 of the emotions. that I was having, you know, 00:11:38.990 --> 00:11:42.990 outside of like my family. So you had periods 00:11:42.990 --> 00:11:45.649 of remission during those 25 years, but you had 00:11:45.649 --> 00:11:49.460 your flares and. I'm very active on the Reddit 00:11:49.460 --> 00:11:51.799 community because you really have, it's a space 00:11:51.799 --> 00:11:54.360 where people who are afraid to speak about it, 00:11:54.399 --> 00:11:57.080 I guess, you know, around peers, family, this 00:11:57.080 --> 00:11:59.019 is where they go to to ask questions. And one 00:11:59.019 --> 00:12:00.879 of the questions that I just come see pop up 00:12:00.879 --> 00:12:03.559 again and again is, hey, I'm flaring or have 00:12:03.559 --> 00:12:05.759 my first flare or this flare is worse. How do 00:12:05.759 --> 00:12:07.480 you guys deal with it? What are your tips and 00:12:07.480 --> 00:12:10.980 tricks? So how did you navigate flares? Every 00:12:10.980 --> 00:12:14.120 time I speak about IBD, I always say that IBD 00:12:14.120 --> 00:12:17.379 is not a cookie cutter disease, right? So everybody... 00:12:17.929 --> 00:12:21.129 is affected by IBD differently and what works 00:12:21.129 --> 00:12:23.190 for one person may not work for the next. So 00:12:23.190 --> 00:12:25.590 that's the beauty of having like an online community 00:12:25.590 --> 00:12:28.429 or support system because you can see, you know, 00:12:28.429 --> 00:12:31.629 what works for one person may not work for another, 00:12:31.730 --> 00:12:33.970 but it gives you that, you know, opportunity 00:12:33.970 --> 00:12:37.039 to try something you may not have tried. already 00:12:37.039 --> 00:12:40.500 right so when I would be flaring first thing 00:12:40.500 --> 00:12:43.019 I would do you know is just eat a very plain 00:12:43.019 --> 00:12:47.139 simple diet right ensuring you know lots of fluids 00:12:47.139 --> 00:12:49.679 and you know nutritious foods like for example 00:12:49.679 --> 00:12:52.799 like bone broth or you know things that are easy 00:12:52.799 --> 00:12:55.620 to eat easy to digest things that don't upset 00:12:55.620 --> 00:12:58.759 my you know digestive system because it's already 00:12:58.759 --> 00:13:02.850 you know on high alert so you know that those 00:13:02.850 --> 00:13:05.330 would be like my basic like tips and tricks and 00:13:05.330 --> 00:13:07.830 trying to avoid stress ensuring you know you 00:13:07.830 --> 00:13:10.370 get enough rest because you know even in a flare 00:13:10.370 --> 00:13:12.450 -up it's hard to rest as well because you're 00:13:12.450 --> 00:13:14.990 always running to the washroom you're waking 00:13:14.990 --> 00:13:17.309 up in the middle of the night going to the washroom 00:13:17.309 --> 00:13:20.330 so like you're you're constantly constantly tired 00:13:20.330 --> 00:13:23.370 right so ensuring that you get a lot of rest 00:13:23.370 --> 00:13:26.029 and you know a lot of nutrients is really key 00:13:26.620 --> 00:13:30.480 So definitely from what I'm hearing is you centered 00:13:30.480 --> 00:13:33.039 the management of your flares around dietary 00:13:33.039 --> 00:13:36.799 adjustments and making sure that you don't sort 00:13:36.799 --> 00:13:39.360 of worsen any symptoms based on what you eat. 00:13:39.940 --> 00:13:42.360 Maybe looking at your experience with colitis, 00:13:42.360 --> 00:13:46.620 but also going through colorectal cancer, how 00:13:46.620 --> 00:13:51.259 has this misadventure, if I can call it that, 00:13:51.379 --> 00:13:55.980 changed you as a person? So I think personally, 00:13:56.200 --> 00:14:00.059 like having my cancer diagnosis and then my living 00:14:00.059 --> 00:14:03.159 with an ostomy has kind of really enabled me 00:14:03.159 --> 00:14:06.940 to want to share my story even more. Right. When 00:14:06.940 --> 00:14:10.820 I had IBD, you know, there's always the possibility 00:14:10.820 --> 00:14:14.700 of the outcome to have an ostomy. Right. Because 00:14:14.700 --> 00:14:17.179 when you you don't respond anymore to treatment 00:14:17.179 --> 00:14:20.480 or, you know, you flare up severely, you would. 00:14:20.840 --> 00:14:24.039 you know, may end up with an ostomy. So that 00:14:24.039 --> 00:14:26.139 was always on my mind. And I have to say, like, 00:14:26.200 --> 00:14:28.620 even when I was diagnosed with cancer and I knew 00:14:28.620 --> 00:14:31.720 I was going to have ostomy surgery, I was initially 00:14:31.720 --> 00:14:34.460 less concerned about the cancer and more concerned 00:14:34.460 --> 00:14:36.720 about living with an ostomy because of the negative 00:14:36.720 --> 00:14:41.639 stigma that I myself had associated with ostomies, 00:14:41.679 --> 00:14:44.539 right? Like, you know, me being judged for it. 00:14:45.519 --> 00:14:47.899 how the way that it looked, if it was smelly, 00:14:47.899 --> 00:14:50.559 right? Like how I was going to manage my ostomy. 00:14:50.679 --> 00:14:54.360 But I, you know, I had started my Gutsy Girl 00:14:54.360 --> 00:14:57.700 Diaries, you know, Instagram account prior and 00:14:57.700 --> 00:15:00.500 blog prior to my colorectal cancer diagnosis. 00:15:00.559 --> 00:15:03.600 So, you know, already having a platform to share 00:15:03.600 --> 00:15:06.179 with others in the same, you know, situation 00:15:06.179 --> 00:15:10.039 or caregivers in the same situation really helped 00:15:10.039 --> 00:15:13.000 me to, you know, navigate through my diagnosis. 00:15:14.409 --> 00:15:16.909 You mentioned it. There's a lot of stigma around, 00:15:17.090 --> 00:15:21.090 you know, living without intestines. So let's 00:15:21.090 --> 00:15:24.850 break that stigma down. How are you living with 00:15:24.850 --> 00:15:28.370 this today? And are you limited? Is there something 00:15:28.370 --> 00:15:32.509 that you cannot do? And also, do you still have 00:15:32.509 --> 00:15:35.809 issues sometimes? Because again, for some people, 00:15:35.889 --> 00:15:38.669 it's like having surgery is not necessarily a 00:15:38.669 --> 00:15:41.009 cure, right? For IBD, it can still be present. 00:15:41.129 --> 00:15:45.899 So how are you doing? And what is life like for 00:15:45.899 --> 00:15:50.500 you in this situation? So overall, I have to 00:15:50.500 --> 00:15:53.220 say my ostomy gave me my life back, right? A 00:15:53.220 --> 00:15:55.919 lot of things that I would be fearful of doing 00:15:55.919 --> 00:16:00.350 with IBD. I now can do with my ostomy like for 00:16:00.350 --> 00:16:03.850 example you know going on a road trip or you 00:16:03.850 --> 00:16:06.789 know going to a concert and you know not having 00:16:06.789 --> 00:16:10.009 to worry about urgency or you know finding a 00:16:10.009 --> 00:16:12.809 bathroom or that kind of thing right I mean there 00:16:12.809 --> 00:16:15.649 are still like the challenges that I have with 00:16:15.649 --> 00:16:18.029 my ostomy in terms of you know dealing with ostomy 00:16:18.029 --> 00:16:20.450 leaks or you know finding the right appliance 00:16:20.450 --> 00:16:22.669 and ensuring like you know I have the right products 00:16:22.669 --> 00:16:25.190 and being prepared you know there's all of that 00:16:25.190 --> 00:16:29.580 but as a whole Right. Like, you know, health 00:16:29.580 --> 00:16:33.120 wise, I am so much better. Right. My inflammation 00:16:33.120 --> 00:16:37.200 is so much lower. My energy levels are so much 00:16:37.200 --> 00:16:39.779 higher. Right. Because, you know, I no longer 00:16:39.779 --> 00:16:44.360 have active IBD. Right. Although I do have other 00:16:44.360 --> 00:16:49.360 IBD associated, you know, symptoms or conditions. 00:16:49.720 --> 00:16:54.500 Right. I don't have like. that urgency, right? 00:16:54.580 --> 00:16:57.919 And I think like for anybody with IBD or even 00:16:57.919 --> 00:17:00.919 IBS, that feeling of urgency is like one of the 00:17:00.919 --> 00:17:04.859 worst, worst feelings, right? And I remember 00:17:04.859 --> 00:17:07.140 after my surgery, like being in hospital and 00:17:07.140 --> 00:17:09.880 kind of finding it weird, like that I didn't 00:17:09.880 --> 00:17:13.299 feel that, right? Because I was so used to always 00:17:13.299 --> 00:17:17.039 being like so nervous, so tense, right? Because 00:17:17.039 --> 00:17:19.819 of that urgency feeling and it's just terrible. 00:17:19.880 --> 00:17:24.250 So I don't miss it. Right. Yeah. And so this 00:17:24.250 --> 00:17:26.170 is very interesting because you feel something 00:17:26.170 --> 00:17:27.750 for so long, you do something for so long and 00:17:27.750 --> 00:17:29.069 all of a sudden from one day to the next, it 00:17:29.069 --> 00:17:31.670 ceases to exist. How long did it take you to 00:17:31.670 --> 00:17:34.349 actually get used to, well, the lack of that 00:17:34.349 --> 00:17:37.650 feeling and this new feeling that you had? If 00:17:37.650 --> 00:17:39.950 I had to say something, I would say like six 00:17:39.950 --> 00:17:42.369 months, right? Because sometimes too, like even 00:17:42.369 --> 00:17:44.829 like the whole adjustment with, you know, having 00:17:44.829 --> 00:17:47.009 an ostomy and doing different things with my 00:17:47.009 --> 00:17:49.230 ostomy, right? Like I had to take it like... 00:17:49.609 --> 00:17:52.029 Little things at a time, like, for example, traveling 00:17:52.029 --> 00:17:55.670 or going swimming or, you know, just because 00:17:55.670 --> 00:17:58.890 I wanted to ensure that I kind of understood 00:17:58.890 --> 00:18:01.890 everything that went along with with having the 00:18:01.890 --> 00:18:04.670 ostomy. Right. So, yeah, I would say about a 00:18:04.670 --> 00:18:07.150 six month period, like it took me to really feel 00:18:07.150 --> 00:18:11.470 like, oh, wow, like I, you know. I don't have 00:18:11.470 --> 00:18:13.910 to go to the washroom like I used to kind of 00:18:13.910 --> 00:18:16.549 thing or I don't have those those feelings that 00:18:16.549 --> 00:18:20.930 I used to. So we can summarize this again. And 00:18:20.930 --> 00:18:23.589 I think it's very important to focus on this 00:18:23.589 --> 00:18:26.250 is like living with an ostomy is actually completely 00:18:26.250 --> 00:18:30.630 okay, right? Yes, it is. It is. I mean, it does 00:18:30.630 --> 00:18:34.390 have its challenges, but overall, it's very possible. 00:18:34.490 --> 00:18:37.670 And you can, you're not limited in doing anything 00:18:37.670 --> 00:18:39.509 that you don't want, you know what I mean, that 00:18:39.509 --> 00:18:42.049 you want to do. During that period, and especially 00:18:42.049 --> 00:18:44.210 getting used to the ostomy as well, how has that 00:18:44.210 --> 00:18:48.900 impacted like your Your own body image and also 00:18:48.900 --> 00:18:51.460 your relationship with your husband, in what 00:18:51.460 --> 00:18:54.079 ways has that sort of impacted you or affected 00:18:54.079 --> 00:18:58.420 you? So, you know, for me, it was a very personal 00:18:58.420 --> 00:19:01.259 thing, right? Like I do share about my ostomy 00:19:01.259 --> 00:19:03.599 online. I do show my ostomy online. That took 00:19:03.599 --> 00:19:06.480 a while as well. But, you know, my husband never 00:19:06.480 --> 00:19:10.019 made me feel uncomfortable or anything like that. 00:19:10.079 --> 00:19:11.920 Like he always embraced it. I mean, he always 00:19:11.920 --> 00:19:14.640 like does my ostomy pouch changes with me, like, 00:19:14.660 --> 00:19:18.009 you know. And it's just that extra level of, 00:19:18.009 --> 00:19:22.130 you know, care and support is, you know, so, 00:19:22.289 --> 00:19:25.049 so important. Right. And navigating, you know, 00:19:25.049 --> 00:19:28.210 even through IBD, through any kind of like, you 00:19:28.210 --> 00:19:31.150 know, health concern or health issue, I think 00:19:31.150 --> 00:19:33.970 is super important. Right. And, you know, in 00:19:33.970 --> 00:19:36.990 terms of my body image, like it took me a long 00:19:36.990 --> 00:19:39.569 time to accept, you know, how my body would look. 00:19:39.609 --> 00:19:42.049 And even now, like looking back at old pictures 00:19:42.049 --> 00:19:44.640 where I don't have the ostomy like it. it's kind 00:19:44.640 --> 00:19:47.759 of foreign. Like I, sometimes I forget that how 00:19:47.759 --> 00:19:51.140 my body looked before. Right. But my husband 00:19:51.140 --> 00:19:54.019 says like, you know, sometimes I don't realize 00:19:54.019 --> 00:19:57.319 it, but you know, he says that I seem more confident 00:19:57.319 --> 00:20:01.519 in my, in my own skin or in my own body now than 00:20:01.519 --> 00:20:06.079 I did before surgery. So, you know, I feel like 00:20:06.079 --> 00:20:09.549 that's a positive thing. Right. And I'm not as 00:20:09.549 --> 00:20:12.730 embarrassed anymore as I was when I first got 00:20:12.730 --> 00:20:15.750 it. Like when I first got my ostomy couch, I 00:20:15.750 --> 00:20:18.329 was, I would dress in such a way to always kind 00:20:18.329 --> 00:20:21.849 of try to hide it or, you know, make, you know, 00:20:21.849 --> 00:20:26.230 look normal. Right. So, yeah, it's been, it's 00:20:26.230 --> 00:20:28.369 been quite a journey in terms of body image. 00:20:28.529 --> 00:20:30.890 You know, it's still a struggle every day, but 00:20:30.890 --> 00:20:35.369 overall it's good. Yeah. So when I. reflect on 00:20:35.369 --> 00:20:38.589 my own IBD journey and what I went through, I 00:20:38.589 --> 00:20:42.150 always look at ulcerative colitis or IBD as a 00:20:42.150 --> 00:20:46.730 blessing and a curse. In what ways do you relate 00:20:46.730 --> 00:20:51.890 to that train of thought? A blessing in the sense 00:20:51.890 --> 00:20:55.049 of, you know, it's kind of like a red flag or 00:20:55.049 --> 00:20:57.450 an alert that, you know, we... all have just 00:20:57.450 --> 00:21:00.230 one body and we really have to do our best to 00:21:00.230 --> 00:21:02.869 take care of it right and to nurture it and to 00:21:02.869 --> 00:21:06.190 give it what it needs to survive right like the 00:21:06.190 --> 00:21:09.970 body is like an amazing machine right and I think 00:21:09.970 --> 00:21:13.710 it's just so important to give it the care right 00:21:13.710 --> 00:21:16.809 and to you know Be mindful of what you put in 00:21:16.809 --> 00:21:19.609 your body. Make sure you move your body and keep 00:21:19.609 --> 00:21:22.269 it healthy. You know, certain things are outside 00:21:22.269 --> 00:21:25.109 of our control, right? Like an IBD diagnosis 00:21:25.109 --> 00:21:28.289 or a cancer diagnosis or, you know, certain illnesses. 00:21:28.369 --> 00:21:31.309 But what we can control and in terms of what 00:21:31.309 --> 00:21:33.650 we put inside our body and our output, I think 00:21:33.650 --> 00:21:37.640 is important. Very well put. I completely agree 00:21:37.640 --> 00:21:40.299 with you. For people that are out there that 00:21:40.299 --> 00:21:45.240 are struggling, who are afraid, who don't have 00:21:45.240 --> 00:21:49.079 the disease under control, what is your message 00:21:49.079 --> 00:21:55.019 to those people? So my message is, you know, 00:21:55.019 --> 00:21:59.519 one day at a time. Right. And to just focus on, 00:21:59.599 --> 00:22:03.000 you know, the things that are working. Right. 00:22:03.079 --> 00:22:05.940 Sometimes it's hard to, you know, kind of get 00:22:05.940 --> 00:22:09.339 out of your neck out of a negative mindset, like 00:22:09.339 --> 00:22:11.140 when you're in a flare and thinking, you know, 00:22:11.140 --> 00:22:12.700 I'm never going to get better. I'm never going 00:22:12.700 --> 00:22:15.279 to, you know, do the things that I want to do. 00:22:15.380 --> 00:22:18.720 Right. But to always, you know, persevere and 00:22:18.720 --> 00:22:22.710 to never give up. So you've been with IBD for 00:22:22.710 --> 00:22:25.769 a long, long time. And of course, times have 00:22:25.769 --> 00:22:28.910 changed. But in some areas, times have not changed, 00:22:29.049 --> 00:22:31.869 especially when it comes to misconceptions in 00:22:31.869 --> 00:22:35.809 regards to IBD, colitis, ostomy. What do you 00:22:35.809 --> 00:22:39.930 think are some common misconceptions about IBD 00:22:39.930 --> 00:22:43.390 out there still today? I think some common misconceptions, 00:22:43.609 --> 00:22:47.900 right, which I... I speak to as well, you know, 00:22:47.900 --> 00:22:50.099 the whole notion of like, you know, somebody 00:22:50.099 --> 00:22:53.579 like doesn't look sick, right? So, you know, 00:22:53.579 --> 00:22:56.119 sometimes it's questioned in terms of, you know, 00:22:56.119 --> 00:22:58.740 like, how come today you're able to go out and 00:22:58.740 --> 00:23:01.660 the next day you're not, right? Like, you know, 00:23:01.660 --> 00:23:04.539 so there's a lot of like, you know, misunderstandings 00:23:04.539 --> 00:23:08.559 or misconceptions around, you know, the nature 00:23:08.559 --> 00:23:11.000 of the disease, right? And, you know, how can 00:23:11.000 --> 00:23:14.799 it be like so up and down, right? And I think, 00:23:14.819 --> 00:23:20.140 you know, just having the opportunity to share, 00:23:20.240 --> 00:23:22.519 right. Just really gives perspective, right. 00:23:22.619 --> 00:23:25.400 For other people who may not know much about 00:23:25.400 --> 00:23:28.359 IBD that, you know, I kind of like a day in the 00:23:28.359 --> 00:23:31.099 life, right. That, you know, some days you can 00:23:31.099 --> 00:23:33.579 do all the things and other days you just really 00:23:33.579 --> 00:23:37.900 can't. Now, the last thing that I want to mention 00:23:37.900 --> 00:23:40.779 in regards to the past is if you could go back 00:23:40.779 --> 00:23:47.019 and you could speak to yourself, your, 15 year 00:23:47.019 --> 00:23:51.279 old on diagnosis day what would you say to yourself 00:23:51.279 --> 00:23:57.299 i think i would say to myself not to worry that 00:23:57.299 --> 00:24:01.319 everything will be okay and to always you know 00:24:01.319 --> 00:24:03.839 look at the bright side of things and to stay 00:24:03.839 --> 00:24:08.180 strong so sometimes keeping it short and simple 00:24:08.180 --> 00:24:10.920 is actually carries a lot more power than going 00:24:10.920 --> 00:24:13.539 into a long tirade so i i can appreciate that 00:24:14.079 --> 00:24:18.039 You are an advocate. You are doing your part 00:24:18.039 --> 00:24:20.599 in raising awareness. You mentioned you're active 00:24:20.599 --> 00:24:25.339 on Instagram. You started a blog and you named 00:24:25.339 --> 00:24:28.619 it the Gutsy Girl Diaries. Can you tell us a 00:24:28.619 --> 00:24:31.140 little bit about that, a little bit about what 00:24:31.140 --> 00:24:34.200 it is that you do and the ways that you try to 00:24:34.200 --> 00:24:37.880 support others with this condition or similar 00:24:37.880 --> 00:24:41.900 IBD? Yeah. So I started Gutsy Girl Diaries in 00:24:41.900 --> 00:24:45.460 2018 when I was in a severe flare up. And just 00:24:45.460 --> 00:24:48.079 when I was starting my clinical trial with Rindvog, 00:24:48.200 --> 00:24:53.359 I decided that I wanted to break the stigma and 00:24:53.359 --> 00:24:57.210 also put myself out there. And, you know. identifying, 00:24:57.230 --> 00:24:59.630 you know, what would I have wanted if I was just 00:24:59.630 --> 00:25:02.789 diagnosed, right? And going back to, you know, 00:25:02.809 --> 00:25:05.509 when I was 15, there was nothing available to 00:25:05.509 --> 00:25:08.430 me, right? And some people find it so hard to 00:25:08.430 --> 00:25:10.369 share, right? Like even when I post something, 00:25:10.490 --> 00:25:12.410 I'll get a lot of people who won't comment on 00:25:12.410 --> 00:25:14.690 the actual post, but they'll send me a private 00:25:14.690 --> 00:25:16.869 message because they don't feel comfortable, 00:25:17.109 --> 00:25:19.450 right? And that's the point, like creating, you 00:25:19.450 --> 00:25:21.849 know, a safe environment for people to share, 00:25:21.930 --> 00:25:25.980 to be open. And the word gutsy, I just got from, 00:25:26.000 --> 00:25:29.839 you know, before starting my actual page and 00:25:29.839 --> 00:25:32.039 like, you know, going on Instagram, going online, 00:25:32.180 --> 00:25:34.960 anything like that had gutsy associated with 00:25:34.960 --> 00:25:38.900 it, you know, referred to IBD, right? Right. 00:25:38.960 --> 00:25:41.940 Or something like that. So I just kind of used 00:25:41.940 --> 00:25:46.460 it as that. And I just went with it. And so, 00:25:46.500 --> 00:25:48.660 you know, I share my recipes. I share, you know, 00:25:48.660 --> 00:25:52.700 my day to day, what I do for exercise. you know, 00:25:52.700 --> 00:25:55.940 my treatments, that kind of thing. And, you know, 00:25:55.960 --> 00:25:58.019 it took me through like, you know, my colorectal 00:25:58.019 --> 00:26:00.039 cancer journey and living with an ostomy. And 00:26:00.039 --> 00:26:02.660 it's opened me to, you know, so many different 00:26:02.660 --> 00:26:05.640 connections and people and, you know, partnerships, 00:26:05.740 --> 00:26:08.359 you know, with, for example, Colorectal Cancer 00:26:08.359 --> 00:26:11.660 Canada and, you know, other people and other 00:26:11.660 --> 00:26:15.089 brands. Oh, that's really great. And so for everybody 00:26:15.089 --> 00:26:16.630 who's listening or watching, we're going to put 00:26:16.630 --> 00:26:18.730 links to all of that in the show notes as well. 00:26:18.769 --> 00:26:20.769 So you can check out Nadia's blog and connect 00:26:20.769 --> 00:26:24.390 with her individually as well. Do you have today 00:26:24.390 --> 00:26:29.390 any regrets when you think about disease management 00:26:29.390 --> 00:26:32.869 over the years, decisions that you took, maybe 00:26:32.869 --> 00:26:35.049 decisions that you followed from your doctor 00:26:35.049 --> 00:26:38.859 or doctors? Any regrets? I have to say, no, I 00:26:38.859 --> 00:26:41.859 don't. I know that, you know, when we talk about 00:26:41.859 --> 00:26:44.319 the doctor patient relationship, I think that 00:26:44.319 --> 00:26:47.150 that's. super important. And I had a really good 00:26:47.150 --> 00:26:49.609 relationship with my GI, you know, again, she's 00:26:49.609 --> 00:26:52.829 known me since I was first diagnosed at 15. And, 00:26:52.910 --> 00:26:55.869 you know, we had our rocky periods, you know, 00:26:55.890 --> 00:26:58.329 when I kind of didn't want to take my medication, 00:26:58.549 --> 00:27:00.309 I didn't want to do what she was telling me to 00:27:00.309 --> 00:27:03.089 do. So we would, you know, butt heads, but it 00:27:03.089 --> 00:27:06.069 ended up being a beautiful relationship in the 00:27:06.069 --> 00:27:09.730 end. And it really helped me advocate for myself, 00:27:09.910 --> 00:27:12.809 right? Because when you have that comfort with 00:27:12.809 --> 00:27:16.210 your practitioner, It makes, you know, you sharing 00:27:16.210 --> 00:27:19.670 exactly how you feel and your symptoms exactly 00:27:19.670 --> 00:27:23.910 how you are. That's makes it that much easier. 00:27:24.049 --> 00:27:28.509 Right. And I really feel that that's also kind 00:27:28.509 --> 00:27:32.130 of what saved me. Right. Because if I didn't 00:27:32.130 --> 00:27:34.690 feel as open to share with her when I was just 00:27:34.690 --> 00:27:37.410 kind of feeling kind of off and it wasn't really 00:27:37.410 --> 00:27:39.950 a flare and I don't know what I should do. Right. 00:27:40.009 --> 00:27:43.980 You know, had I waited and, you know. my diagnosis 00:27:43.980 --> 00:27:46.079 with my cancer could have been a more severe 00:27:46.079 --> 00:27:49.680 one, right? So I think that, you know, patient 00:27:49.680 --> 00:27:53.980 advocacy is a huge thing that I speak to. And 00:27:53.980 --> 00:27:56.920 I think it's so important for everybody to have 00:27:56.920 --> 00:28:01.079 that comfort and that voice for themselves. Yeah, 00:28:01.079 --> 00:28:03.099 this is a very interesting take because I always 00:28:03.099 --> 00:28:06.000 speak about how important it is to have a gastroenterologist 00:28:06.000 --> 00:28:09.440 who's very proactive, right? Who listens to you, 00:28:09.460 --> 00:28:12.740 who acknowledges your concerns. But you raised 00:28:12.740 --> 00:28:14.740 an interesting point is that sometimes you actually 00:28:14.740 --> 00:28:17.539 have a doctor or GI that is very proactive, but 00:28:17.539 --> 00:28:20.400 it's the patient that is reluctant, right? Or 00:28:20.400 --> 00:28:22.599 sort of like comes back with some resistance. 00:28:22.799 --> 00:28:25.740 So having a very good relationship, I think will 00:28:25.740 --> 00:28:28.740 help break down that fear and that barrier. And 00:28:28.740 --> 00:28:31.779 this is what I advocate for most, you know, find 00:28:31.779 --> 00:28:33.839 yourself a proactive doctor. And if you have 00:28:33.839 --> 00:28:36.440 one, you find one, you're very lucky and listen 00:28:36.440 --> 00:28:38.759 to them in that case. You know, that means they 00:28:38.759 --> 00:28:41.329 really have the best at heart for you. 100 % 00:28:41.329 --> 00:28:43.829 and I feel like too like they will advocate for 00:28:43.829 --> 00:28:48.250 you as well right like because one hard thing 00:28:48.250 --> 00:28:50.869 that I had to deal with between my IBD diagnosis 00:28:50.869 --> 00:28:54.529 and my cancer diagnosis was that after my surgery 00:28:54.529 --> 00:28:59.069 I technically don't have IBD anymore right because 00:28:59.069 --> 00:29:02.190 you know ulcerative colitis affects the large 00:29:02.190 --> 00:29:05.849 colon only right and I wasn't going to be seeing 00:29:05.849 --> 00:29:10.059 her anymore so it was just a very emotional time 00:29:10.059 --> 00:29:12.640 with that as well because she became you know 00:29:12.640 --> 00:29:15.640 such an important part of my life right seeing 00:29:15.640 --> 00:29:19.180 her every six months right sharing you know all 00:29:19.180 --> 00:29:22.680 she saw me all through all my you know journey 00:29:22.680 --> 00:29:24.960 in life right like graduating university getting 00:29:24.960 --> 00:29:29.000 married having children right so it's just they 00:29:29.000 --> 00:29:31.980 become a part of you as well so i just feel like 00:29:31.980 --> 00:29:35.160 that is just so important And really amazing, 00:29:35.220 --> 00:29:36.960 I have to say, and I'm very happy that you got 00:29:36.960 --> 00:29:38.839 to experience this, is to actually be able to 00:29:38.839 --> 00:29:41.779 stick with one GI essentially through your entire 00:29:41.779 --> 00:29:44.279 journey over such a long period of time. That's 00:29:44.279 --> 00:29:48.920 really, really amazing. So stroke of luck. Yeah, 00:29:49.000 --> 00:29:51.599 we used to joke about like, you know, I'd say 00:29:51.599 --> 00:29:53.740 like, oh, it's 20 years, like I've been seeing 00:29:53.740 --> 00:29:55.180 you and she'd be like, oh, well, you're getting 00:29:55.180 --> 00:29:57.920 old, right? So, you know, we always had that 00:29:57.920 --> 00:30:02.680 like banter between us. So, and I feel like that 00:30:02.680 --> 00:30:06.990 also. It helped me to be more open as well. Love 00:30:06.990 --> 00:30:10.690 to hear it. So I want to part with you by looking 00:30:10.690 --> 00:30:13.150 ahead a little bit. And even though this question 00:30:13.150 --> 00:30:16.589 might be very, very hard to answer, I still like 00:30:16.589 --> 00:30:19.910 to get your feel for it. Do you think that we 00:30:19.910 --> 00:30:23.829 will see a cure to IBD in our lifetime? I really 00:30:23.829 --> 00:30:26.150 hope so. I really hope so because there's so 00:30:26.150 --> 00:30:29.029 many different advances in medicine and changes 00:30:29.029 --> 00:30:32.990 and, you know. opportunity of you know studying 00:30:32.990 --> 00:30:35.630 different aspects right and the more people share 00:30:35.630 --> 00:30:39.210 I feel the more opportunity there will be for 00:30:39.210 --> 00:30:42.069 a cure right because there's like I said IBD 00:30:42.069 --> 00:30:44.230 is not a cookie cutter disease so it's hard you 00:30:44.230 --> 00:30:47.109 know to manage every different aspect right that 00:30:47.109 --> 00:30:50.029 people feel so I really do hope that you know 00:30:50.029 --> 00:30:52.410 one day there is a cure because it is such a 00:30:52.410 --> 00:30:55.779 such a terrible disease. Nadia, thank you so, 00:30:55.839 --> 00:30:57.799 so much. I think this was a very inspiring conversation. 00:30:57.940 --> 00:31:00.900 I really love how open you are. And I love what 00:31:00.900 --> 00:31:02.880 you're doing as well with your Instagram, with 00:31:02.880 --> 00:31:05.539 your blog. So make sure everybody who's listening 00:31:05.539 --> 00:31:07.900 to check this out. And thank you so much again 00:31:07.900 --> 00:31:10.740 for being on the show today. Thank you so much 00:31:10.740 --> 00:31:13.920 for having me. That's it for today's episode 00:31:13.920 --> 00:31:16.859 of Talking S***, presented by Colitis Unfiltered. 00:31:17.339 --> 00:31:20.319 I'm Frank Tabering. And if this hit home or hit 00:31:20.319 --> 00:31:23.240 your gut, do us a favor. Subscribe to the show. 00:31:23.740 --> 00:31:26.299 And follow us at Kaleidos Unfiltered on YouTube, 00:31:26.500 --> 00:31:29.859 Substack, Instagram, Threads, TikTok, and Reddit. 00:31:30.140 --> 00:31:32.319 We'll see you soon for more inspiring stories 00:31:32.319 --> 00:31:33.539 from the bathroom floor.