WEBVTT 00:00:33.200 --> 00:00:35.979 Welcome to Pawprint Academy, your blueprint to 00:00:35.979 --> 00:00:38.880 raising better dogs. My name is Ryan, and I'll 00:00:38.880 --> 00:00:41.780 be your host for this journey. I've got my trusty 00:00:41.780 --> 00:00:44.399 co -host here, Brianna. Hello. And together, 00:00:44.420 --> 00:00:46.259 we're bringing you real -world training insights 00:00:46.259 --> 00:00:49.020 built on leadership, structure, and proven methods. 00:00:49.659 --> 00:00:52.280 We record this podcast with live clients on the 00:00:52.280 --> 00:00:55.539 line in one take with live, unscripted questions 00:00:55.539 --> 00:00:58.340 and answers. At the end of the day, this podcast 00:00:58.340 --> 00:01:00.359 is a lot more than just teaching your dog to 00:01:00.359 --> 00:01:04.709 sit or stay. creating calmness, and becoming 00:01:04.709 --> 00:01:07.650 the kind of leader your dog truly needs. We do 00:01:07.650 --> 00:01:10.109 that with our three pillar method of trust, obey, 00:01:10.310 --> 00:01:13.569 and perform. Together, we'll show you how these 00:01:13.569 --> 00:01:17.090 three pillars shape every step of training. Thanks 00:01:17.090 --> 00:01:37.430 for being here. Let's get started. All right. 00:01:37.469 --> 00:01:41.390 Hey, everybody. Episode 23 coming at you. Separation 00:01:41.390 --> 00:01:46.469 anxiety versus separation frustration. Knowing 00:01:46.469 --> 00:01:49.769 the difference because it matters. Right. So 00:01:49.769 --> 00:01:52.609 today we're talking about the difference between 00:01:52.609 --> 00:01:55.670 these two things that we get calls all the time 00:01:55.670 --> 00:02:00.870 for. My dog absolutely hates being on, you know, 00:02:00.870 --> 00:02:03.370 by themselves. Okay. Well, there's different 00:02:03.370 --> 00:02:08.620 things that that they can be. And it's easy to 00:02:08.620 --> 00:02:12.580 say things and words that we use in the human 00:02:12.580 --> 00:02:16.180 vernacular that's like, oh, well, it's anxiety. 00:02:16.860 --> 00:02:21.460 Yeah. Well, anxiety is a very human type emotion. 00:02:21.840 --> 00:02:28.280 I saw it on Inside Out. And it's a real person. 00:02:28.900 --> 00:02:34.719 The concept, though, doesn't always completely. 00:02:35.870 --> 00:02:40.729 align to your dog yeah sometimes they're just 00:02:40.729 --> 00:02:45.050 frustrated sometimes they're unhappy or dissatisfied 00:02:45.050 --> 00:02:50.750 for a reason that we could meet and relieve some 00:02:50.750 --> 00:02:54.409 of that so -called anxiety that we point the 00:02:54.409 --> 00:02:58.789 finger at yeah all right so to uh remind anyone 00:02:58.789 --> 00:03:02.229 who is uh or hasn't been here in a while the 00:03:02.229 --> 00:03:09.580 um The chat window is open. So for our live clients 00:03:09.580 --> 00:03:11.879 that are on the line with us on the Zoom call, 00:03:12.000 --> 00:03:16.180 you can drop a message into there if we're babbling 00:03:16.180 --> 00:03:20.439 and talking. And I'll answer it as they come 00:03:20.439 --> 00:03:23.860 up. I've got it up there. And then we will work 00:03:23.860 --> 00:03:27.979 our way through here. Super exciting development. 00:03:28.219 --> 00:03:32.020 I've got a statistic today. Oh, fun. We have... 00:03:32.400 --> 00:03:39.319 Got 170 listens to the podcast in the last 30 00:03:39.319 --> 00:03:43.039 days. Nice. So that's exciting. Yeah, that's 00:03:43.039 --> 00:03:45.719 exciting. Slowly climbing the mountain. Slowly. 00:03:46.740 --> 00:03:51.400 We explained it on the intro, but this call is 00:03:51.400 --> 00:03:55.520 recorded. And so anything you say might end up 00:03:55.520 --> 00:03:58.180 on a recording. Can it be used against you? Yeah, 00:03:58.180 --> 00:04:05.960 absolutely. The goal is not to stick it to somebody. 00:04:06.020 --> 00:04:11.639 The goal is to have a group discussion at points 00:04:11.639 --> 00:04:15.719 so that everybody can learn from other, you know, 00:04:15.719 --> 00:04:18.060 people in their individual situations. Right. 00:04:18.079 --> 00:04:19.800 Because not all of our clients know each other, 00:04:19.920 --> 00:04:22.459 you know, they don't ever, you know, or not always 00:04:22.459 --> 00:04:25.680 interact. I mean, at group they do, but a lot 00:04:25.680 --> 00:04:28.509 of times like. We see all of you guys separately, 00:04:28.670 --> 00:04:31.110 but we see so many of the same kind of behaviors 00:04:31.110 --> 00:04:34.750 or things going on with the same or with each 00:04:34.750 --> 00:04:37.730 of your dogs. But it's the same kind of baseline, 00:04:37.910 --> 00:04:41.350 you know, behaviors. Yeah, absolutely. Lila says 00:04:41.350 --> 00:04:46.410 congrats. Oh, thanks. The. Yeah, absolutely. 00:04:47.370 --> 00:04:53.110 Additionally, it's sometimes. difficult to flip 00:04:53.110 --> 00:04:55.610 back and forth from dog trainer mode to dog owner 00:04:55.610 --> 00:05:01.769 mode and think about things from a typical owner's 00:05:01.769 --> 00:05:05.829 like perspective because we're the crazy ones 00:05:05.829 --> 00:05:10.990 who like do this 24 7 so that is not lost on 00:05:10.990 --> 00:05:15.209 us we're by far certainly not perfect we have 00:05:15.209 --> 00:05:18.040 four dogs of our own and they are Wild and crazy 00:05:18.040 --> 00:05:21.319 in all of the same ways at times for sure. Right. 00:05:21.379 --> 00:05:23.019 And each in their own way. And each in their 00:05:23.019 --> 00:05:25.360 own way. They're all living, breathing things. 00:05:26.319 --> 00:05:29.720 So we mess it up all the time. But sometimes 00:05:29.720 --> 00:05:33.839 we forget what it was like to not know a lot 00:05:33.839 --> 00:05:38.319 of the answers or not even the answers, but just 00:05:38.319 --> 00:05:41.410 like the direction. Yeah, because for sure I 00:05:41.410 --> 00:05:43.350 was like a young kid with a dog and I was like, 00:05:43.410 --> 00:05:45.370 this thing is so fun. And then I was like, this 00:05:45.370 --> 00:05:48.509 thing is not fun anymore. And just had no idea 00:05:48.509 --> 00:05:51.050 like what to do with that. Whereas now we're 00:05:51.050 --> 00:05:53.649 dog trainers and we have a little French bulldog 00:05:53.649 --> 00:05:55.569 that we still scratch our heads like, what is 00:05:55.569 --> 00:05:58.670 she doing? I just have no idea. She like laid 00:05:58.670 --> 00:06:00.670 in the sun today and baked herself for a while. 00:06:00.750 --> 00:06:02.230 And I was like, we're just going to go with that. 00:06:02.410 --> 00:06:06.829 Yeah. She's kind of like a little cow. Yeah. 00:06:07.509 --> 00:06:11.949 All right. The core idea for tonight as we roll 00:06:11.949 --> 00:06:15.290 into this is that not all dogs that struggle 00:06:15.290 --> 00:06:19.829 being left alone have separation anxiety. Not 00:06:19.829 --> 00:06:23.910 all of them. Many experience separation frustration. 00:06:25.329 --> 00:06:30.670 Many of them experience just boredom. Yeah. And 00:06:30.670 --> 00:06:33.089 some of them don't mind. Right. And then some 00:06:33.089 --> 00:06:34.930 of them don't mind. Right. Some of them like 00:06:34.930 --> 00:06:40.540 to be left alone. But. These things look similar, 00:06:40.660 --> 00:06:44.160 but they require very different approaches. So 00:06:44.160 --> 00:06:47.079 tonight we're going to kind of go down the road 00:06:47.079 --> 00:06:50.100 of diagnosing which one's which, talking about 00:06:50.100 --> 00:06:53.360 the differences between the two. I'd love to 00:06:53.360 --> 00:06:55.860 hear if you're listening tonight and you're live 00:06:55.860 --> 00:06:59.980 on the call, if you think of something that you'd 00:06:59.980 --> 00:07:03.920 like to share, by all means, I will open it up 00:07:03.920 --> 00:07:09.660 for that sharing. And let's talk about it. Okay. 00:07:13.199 --> 00:07:15.500 Separation anxiety and separation frustration. 00:07:16.160 --> 00:07:19.720 Not the same. Yep. Here we go. Lumping these 00:07:19.720 --> 00:07:23.019 issues together can sometimes lead you down the 00:07:23.019 --> 00:07:31.579 wrong path. So let's separate them. You didn't 00:07:31.579 --> 00:07:34.750 get it. All right. That's fine. Okay. So separation 00:07:34.750 --> 00:07:38.009 anxiety is driven. It's all right. So it's corny. 00:07:38.689 --> 00:07:42.129 Separation anxiety is driven by panic and emotional 00:07:42.129 --> 00:07:48.449 distress. Yep. This separation anxiety is like 00:07:48.449 --> 00:07:52.149 the big one. That's the one where it's like this 00:07:52.149 --> 00:07:56.110 dog cannot think through this. Yeah. Right. When 00:07:56.110 --> 00:08:00.160 we take a dog that's truly. got separation anxiety, 00:08:00.560 --> 00:08:04.060 we have to modify some of the training techniques 00:08:04.060 --> 00:08:06.420 that we use because you're not going to break 00:08:06.420 --> 00:08:10.180 through. Yeah. This dog is, is literally conditioned 00:08:10.180 --> 00:08:13.439 to be in this loop. And just like human anxiety, 00:08:13.639 --> 00:08:17.040 if you've ever experienced it, you can't just, 00:08:17.060 --> 00:08:20.839 you know, somebody can't yell at you to get you 00:08:20.839 --> 00:08:23.160 to snap out of it. Right. You just can't like 00:08:23.160 --> 00:08:27.300 turn it off immediately. Yeah, absolutely. um 00:08:27.300 --> 00:08:31.420 okay and then separation frustration is driven 00:08:31.420 --> 00:08:38.179 by unmet needs lack of structure boredom um a 00:08:38.179 --> 00:08:42.580 lack of uh appropriate decision points yeah right 00:08:42.580 --> 00:08:48.600 these are the things that grow and build frustration 00:08:48.600 --> 00:08:53.259 in a dog because they're like i have nothing 00:08:53.259 --> 00:08:58.529 to do or the person that i rely on to make those 00:08:58.529 --> 00:09:00.909 decisions is not here and i don't know how to 00:09:00.909 --> 00:09:05.830 like stand on my own four paws yeah i'm gonna 00:09:05.830 --> 00:09:11.509 cough oh no um and so i had to mute it real quick 00:09:11.509 --> 00:09:16.159 you're fine um going through the characteristics 00:09:16.159 --> 00:09:19.759 of both anxiety and frustration right so with 00:09:19.759 --> 00:09:22.039 anxiety a lot of times you're going to see a 00:09:22.039 --> 00:09:24.779 dog that can't stop pacing around vocalizing 00:09:24.779 --> 00:09:30.539 like whining and panting trying to escape and 00:09:30.539 --> 00:09:34.620 ultimately when you get severe separation anxiety 00:09:34.620 --> 00:09:37.500 can it can look like self -injury and like just 00:09:37.500 --> 00:09:40.779 they're so redlined that they they don't care 00:09:40.779 --> 00:09:43.820 whether they harm themselves or not thinking 00:09:43.820 --> 00:09:47.100 that just getting out of that situation will 00:09:47.100 --> 00:09:51.539 ease their emotions about it right um this is 00:09:51.539 --> 00:09:54.500 that like fight flight freeze yeah like all of 00:09:54.500 --> 00:10:01.559 their internal um genetics right are like you're 00:10:01.559 --> 00:10:03.639 fighting hormones at this point yeah their nervous 00:10:03.639 --> 00:10:06.759 system is just like off the charts right And 00:10:06.759 --> 00:10:08.940 then with frustration, a lot of times that looks 00:10:08.940 --> 00:10:12.159 like barking, chewing on things and destroying 00:10:12.159 --> 00:10:16.059 your home while you're gone. Couch pillows gone, 00:10:16.460 --> 00:10:20.200 like bedding gone. Right. And this is not a dog 00:10:20.200 --> 00:10:22.700 that is shaking like a leaf. Right. This is a 00:10:22.700 --> 00:10:27.759 dog that's like, I guess I'll do this. Yeah. 00:10:27.940 --> 00:10:30.919 I'm going to chew that. That looks fine. Right. 00:10:30.980 --> 00:10:35.149 Or let me say it different because. The same 00:10:35.149 --> 00:10:37.090 thing can happen, but let me say it differently 00:10:37.090 --> 00:10:40.850 in a human voice, right? Like, I don't have anything 00:10:40.850 --> 00:10:44.990 to do. I guess I'm going to chew on this. Those, 00:10:45.190 --> 00:10:49.789 sometimes you just say it a little, sometimes 00:10:49.789 --> 00:10:52.389 you say it a little bit differently and it trips 00:10:52.389 --> 00:10:56.250 a different trigger in a human brain. Yeah. Yeah, 00:10:56.289 --> 00:10:59.529 because we say things with tones, but dogs say 00:10:59.529 --> 00:11:02.950 things with barks and whines and different body 00:11:02.950 --> 00:11:06.350 language. rather than the words and the tone 00:11:06.350 --> 00:11:11.169 that we can use. But ultimately, treating frustration 00:11:11.169 --> 00:11:15.210 like anxiety can reinforce that dependence. Because 00:11:15.210 --> 00:11:19.909 if you feel that you constantly need to be with 00:11:19.909 --> 00:11:25.409 the dog or give the dog something to do, then 00:11:25.409 --> 00:11:30.389 you're trying to ease the frustration, but it 00:11:30.389 --> 00:11:32.799 can... it can build that separation anxiety where 00:11:32.799 --> 00:11:34.879 they learn to rely on you more and more and more 00:11:34.879 --> 00:11:38.240 and more and more. So that's where we tend to 00:11:38.240 --> 00:11:42.539 lean owners towards teaching a dog how to do 00:11:42.539 --> 00:11:44.980 nothing on their own and self -regulate and just 00:11:44.980 --> 00:11:51.039 relax without you having to ultimately just direct 00:11:51.039 --> 00:11:54.940 them all the time to relax. And in the beginning, 00:11:55.100 --> 00:11:58.240 that looks like telling the dog to relax. But 00:11:58.240 --> 00:12:00.740 eventually you start conditioning that and the 00:12:00.740 --> 00:12:06.100 conditioned relaxation becomes the dog's like 00:12:06.100 --> 00:12:11.059 go to of it's it's when it comes down to it. 00:12:11.580 --> 00:12:15.399 I'm going to go sciencey. Are you ready? I swear 00:12:15.399 --> 00:12:18.419 by next week I'm going to have the little little 00:12:18.419 --> 00:12:20.639 whiz noise. Right. The little whiz noise. Yeah. 00:12:20.639 --> 00:12:23.740 That would be cool. Right. I don't know if that's 00:12:23.740 --> 00:12:26.379 the wrong one. right it'll be like something 00:12:26.379 --> 00:12:28.220 like that yeah but i don't like that one because 00:12:28.220 --> 00:12:29.960 that's a scary one well it's a scary one but 00:12:29.960 --> 00:12:32.360 i'm gonna i'm gonna get it on the panel i like 00:12:32.360 --> 00:12:35.360 that we'll have a bill nye the science guy yeah 00:12:35.360 --> 00:12:39.340 so mine won't get as um in depth as yours get 00:12:39.340 --> 00:12:41.600 but when you look at a dog and you're talking 00:12:41.600 --> 00:12:45.539 about self -regulating and conditioning relaxation 00:12:46.990 --> 00:12:51.149 You look at balancing and flipping a dog between 00:12:51.149 --> 00:12:54.009 their parasympathetic and their sympathetic nervous 00:12:54.009 --> 00:12:58.509 system. Right. Crazy. Right. And when you look 00:12:58.509 --> 00:13:02.289 at those two, like that's where you have to look 00:13:02.289 --> 00:13:05.730 at how a dog reacts and whether you have to continue 00:13:05.730 --> 00:13:09.330 telling them to relax until they get to the point 00:13:09.330 --> 00:13:11.750 where it's just automatic. It's like your bell 00:13:11.750 --> 00:13:17.320 drool food. thing uh pavlov um i was like i can't 00:13:17.320 --> 00:13:20.980 remember yeah and so you're classically conditioning 00:13:20.980 --> 00:13:26.799 a mindset in a dog to where they can flip their 00:13:26.799 --> 00:13:31.379 brain to the off switch and really truly relax 00:13:31.379 --> 00:13:34.100 but it's not just relaxation it's balancing their 00:13:34.100 --> 00:13:38.850 nervous system yeah um i think that This episode 00:13:38.850 --> 00:13:44.210 is going to resound a lot with people. We saw 00:13:44.210 --> 00:13:49.509 and dog trainers talk about a lot the 2020 COVID 00:13:49.509 --> 00:13:54.409 time where it basically like reset the entire 00:13:54.409 --> 00:13:58.029 dog population to have separation anxiety. Right. 00:13:58.029 --> 00:14:00.830 And now those dogs are like six. Right. So it's 00:14:00.830 --> 00:14:05.889 like a very common thing for this like midlife 00:14:05.889 --> 00:14:09.980 dog. to to have right like stage five clingers 00:14:09.980 --> 00:14:12.600 everybody has stage five clingers and they're 00:14:12.600 --> 00:14:16.840 like because we built this yeah yeah um so let's 00:14:16.840 --> 00:14:20.940 go through um why you know these common fixes 00:14:20.940 --> 00:14:24.000 that you can just you know google don't always 00:14:24.000 --> 00:14:30.379 work so um one excessive reassurance can uh can 00:14:30.379 --> 00:14:34.259 can build a dog's confidence but not in them 00:14:34.259 --> 00:14:39.919 yeah in you yeah which might throw you off because 00:14:39.919 --> 00:14:44.679 you're like well i i want them to you know right 00:14:44.679 --> 00:14:47.659 we always talk about you be the leader you you 00:14:47.659 --> 00:14:52.179 know lead your dog and and be in charge but yeah 00:14:52.179 --> 00:14:54.659 in this case you have to find a balance exactly 00:14:54.659 --> 00:14:56.379 because every dog is different and every little 00:14:56.379 --> 00:14:58.480 condition is going to be different right so in 00:14:58.480 --> 00:15:05.419 a dog that is showing this um this lack of confidence 00:15:05.419 --> 00:15:09.759 on their own four paws. Now we want to, we want 00:15:09.759 --> 00:15:13.779 to build that reassurance in them and their thought 00:15:13.779 --> 00:15:17.899 processes. Yeah. At least initially more than 00:15:17.899 --> 00:15:21.820 we build it just in us. Otherwise the dog just 00:15:21.820 --> 00:15:27.120 develops even more separation, frustration and 00:15:27.120 --> 00:15:30.399 or anxiety. Yeah. And I mean, we might mean well, 00:15:30.519 --> 00:15:33.519 but. A lot of times when it comes down to like 00:15:33.519 --> 00:15:36.360 that excessive reassurance, the number one phrase 00:15:36.360 --> 00:15:39.299 we hear owners say to their dogs is it's okay. 00:15:39.639 --> 00:15:42.639 Yeah. It's all right. It's okay. You're okay. 00:15:43.080 --> 00:15:45.500 But that dog doesn't know what that means. And 00:15:45.500 --> 00:15:49.860 you're giving tone and body language and emotion. 00:15:51.070 --> 00:15:53.149 That that dog can kind of feel and they're like, 00:15:53.169 --> 00:15:55.669 well, this seems off. Why are you telling me 00:15:55.669 --> 00:15:58.309 it's okay? You don't normally do that. Right. 00:15:58.330 --> 00:16:00.389 When nothing is happening, you don't come over 00:16:00.389 --> 00:16:02.009 here and go, it's okay. It's okay. It's okay. 00:16:02.090 --> 00:16:06.149 So obviously something is off. Yeah. The other 00:16:06.149 --> 00:16:09.529 problem with that is that if, let's say the dog 00:16:09.529 --> 00:16:11.429 does understand what you're saying and you're 00:16:11.429 --> 00:16:14.629 saying it's okay. Yep. What is the dog targeting 00:16:14.629 --> 00:16:18.610 as the source of what is okay? Right. Yeah. What 00:16:18.610 --> 00:16:21.580 are they engaged in? Right. And so a lot of times 00:16:21.580 --> 00:16:25.700 when the dog is in their like stressed state, 00:16:25.879 --> 00:16:29.259 you're telling them that what they're thinking, 00:16:29.360 --> 00:16:30.779 the way that they're thinking, the way their 00:16:30.779 --> 00:16:33.379 brain is racing, the way that whatever it is 00:16:33.379 --> 00:16:35.000 that they're scared of, you're telling them that 00:16:35.000 --> 00:16:40.039 that and their reaction to that is okay. Yeah. 00:16:40.419 --> 00:16:44.740 Basically reinforcing. Right. Whatever the emotion 00:16:44.740 --> 00:16:47.740 is. Correct. So we're going to talk about what 00:16:47.740 --> 00:16:50.279 we do for that in the next little section here, 00:16:50.340 --> 00:16:53.659 but we're going to frame this out. The next thing 00:16:53.659 --> 00:17:03.039 is constant following. I can't read what I wrote 00:17:03.039 --> 00:17:08.200 on that one. Constant following prevents independence. 00:17:08.980 --> 00:17:12.319 So when the dog just follows you around everywhere 00:17:12.319 --> 00:17:16.160 you go. And every time you go into another room, 00:17:16.259 --> 00:17:21.220 they come with you. Owners and humans, we look 00:17:21.220 --> 00:17:23.420 at that and we're like, oh, they love me. This 00:17:23.420 --> 00:17:26.779 is so good. Right. They just, they always just 00:17:26.779 --> 00:17:30.299 want to be close to me. And I agree. They do 00:17:30.299 --> 00:17:34.779 love you. There's nothing wrong with that. But. 00:17:36.299 --> 00:17:40.039 what is actually going on underneath the hood 00:17:40.039 --> 00:17:42.740 right you open it up and you're like oh look 00:17:42.740 --> 00:17:47.079 at this mess yeah because that dog and it's not 00:17:47.079 --> 00:17:49.599 all dogs it's not just because the dog walks 00:17:49.599 --> 00:17:51.779 around with you they have separation anxiety 00:17:51.779 --> 00:17:54.259 or frustration that's not what i'm saying but 00:17:54.259 --> 00:17:58.160 the subject of the of today's podcast is on those 00:17:58.160 --> 00:18:00.599 dogs right and that's how it can start correct 00:18:00.599 --> 00:18:05.180 so for these specific dogs When they are following 00:18:05.180 --> 00:18:07.839 you around, they never get the chance to just 00:18:07.839 --> 00:18:11.319 be by themselves, but you still be in the other 00:18:11.319 --> 00:18:15.619 room where they like, okay, you're home, but 00:18:15.619 --> 00:18:21.380 I'm not attached to you. Caesar Milan recommends 00:18:21.380 --> 00:18:26.900 a reference point in this super. super funny 00:18:26.900 --> 00:18:29.140 video if you ever look it up all of his videos 00:18:29.140 --> 00:18:31.779 are funny i swear we watch that sometimes just 00:18:31.779 --> 00:18:33.859 so we can like i love it but a lot of people 00:18:33.859 --> 00:18:36.579 have watched a lot of that right and it makes 00:18:36.579 --> 00:18:39.019 reached a lot of people so i like using those 00:18:39.019 --> 00:18:43.740 examples right it's a reference point um so the 00:18:43.740 --> 00:18:49.380 basically taking the dog and i'm jumping ahead 00:18:49.380 --> 00:18:51.880 to the solutions here but what we're going to 00:18:51.880 --> 00:18:55.069 talk about is We want to take a dog and put them 00:18:55.069 --> 00:18:59.369 in a point and then slowly move further and further 00:18:59.369 --> 00:19:01.269 away from them while they're still in that same 00:19:01.269 --> 00:19:04.769 spot. And then we can show them through repetition 00:19:04.769 --> 00:19:08.109 that, oh, I got farther away and then I came 00:19:08.109 --> 00:19:09.869 back. Yeah, that's like our threshold. And I 00:19:09.869 --> 00:19:10.950 got farther away and then I came back. Right. 00:19:11.089 --> 00:19:12.589 And we're going to talk about that whole process. 00:19:12.950 --> 00:19:18.450 But the concept of a dog not... adhering to a 00:19:18.450 --> 00:19:20.990 reference point, not knowing how to be on place, 00:19:21.210 --> 00:19:25.690 not accepting being put in their crate. Having 00:19:25.690 --> 00:19:29.609 to be attached to you, that Velcro dog syndrome, 00:19:29.829 --> 00:19:34.049 that builds all of these processes. Yeah. What 00:19:34.049 --> 00:19:38.549 is it in Monsters, Inc.? Code 19. Code 19. I 00:19:38.549 --> 00:19:41.309 don't think that's the number, but I can never 00:19:41.309 --> 00:19:45.009 remember. 23. 2319. 2319. That's right. There 00:19:45.009 --> 00:19:51.359 we go. Okay. Then the next thing is when we take 00:19:51.359 --> 00:19:56.900 a dog that has separation anxiety and we're not 00:19:56.900 --> 00:20:03.240 making a move on vets here, but a surgeon is 00:20:03.240 --> 00:20:07.900 paid to do surgery. A doctor typically wants 00:20:07.900 --> 00:20:09.920 to prescribe medication. A dog trainer wants 00:20:09.920 --> 00:20:14.220 to do training. A vet wants to give some medicine. 00:20:15.200 --> 00:20:19.700 They are medication based. And this day and age, 00:20:19.779 --> 00:20:24.099 vets are very, very, very much medication based. 00:20:24.579 --> 00:20:29.420 So you take a dog. Oh, he's got separation anxiety. 00:20:30.160 --> 00:20:33.579 Well, does he? Who diagnosed that? Right. The 00:20:33.579 --> 00:20:35.359 vet just has to go based off of what you're saying. 00:20:35.519 --> 00:20:38.059 Right. They don't get a chance and they're way 00:20:38.059 --> 00:20:40.380 too busy to like sit down and like go through 00:20:40.380 --> 00:20:43.789 a whole. you know, interview and figure out exactly 00:20:43.789 --> 00:20:47.230 what's going on. Yeah. I wish we could. I also 00:20:47.230 --> 00:20:49.349 wish I and I guess I've never like researched 00:20:49.349 --> 00:20:51.589 it before is like finding a holistic vet. You 00:20:51.589 --> 00:20:53.769 know, they have like holistic. Yeah, they exist. 00:20:53.910 --> 00:20:57.869 I don't know of any around here. But so where 00:20:57.869 --> 00:21:00.710 I'm going with this is we take a dog to a vet 00:21:00.710 --> 00:21:03.109 because they're having a problem. And the vet 00:21:03.109 --> 00:21:07.890 is oftentimes your first like ally in, you know, 00:21:07.890 --> 00:21:10.569 working. with your dog to work through issues 00:21:10.569 --> 00:21:14.289 um especially if the dog has done something crazy 00:21:14.289 --> 00:21:18.190 now the vet's like all right well let's put them 00:21:18.190 --> 00:21:22.890 on trazodone let's put them on right um yeah 00:21:22.890 --> 00:21:28.690 dog version of prozac um the where we're going 00:21:28.690 --> 00:21:33.450 with this is that medication then is in the mix 00:21:34.029 --> 00:21:38.789 It changes hormone balance. It masks the symptoms. 00:21:39.069 --> 00:21:42.630 And it puts you in a position where, how are 00:21:42.630 --> 00:21:44.950 you ever going to work through it? Because you 00:21:44.950 --> 00:21:48.269 have squashed it down. Now, if that works for 00:21:48.269 --> 00:21:50.390 you, then that works for you. That's fine. Also, 00:21:50.390 --> 00:21:53.369 if it's a temporary solution to get you past 00:21:53.369 --> 00:21:57.109 something, then yeah. Right. But at some point, 00:21:57.130 --> 00:22:01.660 we've got to confront the monster. Right. When 00:22:01.660 --> 00:22:04.299 your dog is on medication, especially some of 00:22:04.299 --> 00:22:06.779 the hard hitting medication that does completely 00:22:06.779 --> 00:22:10.880 shut down or change drives hormones and nervous 00:22:10.880 --> 00:22:16.259 system thought process. Your your hill that you're 00:22:16.259 --> 00:22:19.160 trying to get to the top of gets larger. Yeah. 00:22:19.380 --> 00:22:23.099 Yep. OK. And then I want to talk about the one 00:22:23.099 --> 00:22:26.819 that you skipped. Also, emotional departures 00:22:26.819 --> 00:22:31.839 raise arousal. So with that, it's. When you think 00:22:31.839 --> 00:22:34.559 about a dog that has separation anxiety and you 00:22:34.559 --> 00:22:37.059 go to put your shoes on and your dog automatically 00:22:37.059 --> 00:22:40.400 already starts panting and pacing and whining, 00:22:40.480 --> 00:22:43.660 you get your keys and it gets louder and more 00:22:43.660 --> 00:22:48.880 intense or you start getting upset. And if your 00:22:48.880 --> 00:22:51.740 dog starts portraying those, like it may emotionally 00:22:51.740 --> 00:22:54.559 like dysregulate you, which then emotionally 00:22:54.559 --> 00:22:56.920 dysregulates your dog. And so then it's like 00:22:56.920 --> 00:23:03.559 this whole effect thing. We have seen people 00:23:03.559 --> 00:23:07.059 before do this and it's like, cool, they will 00:23:07.059 --> 00:23:10.059 say something to the dog or they'll start talking 00:23:10.059 --> 00:23:11.539 to the dog and they're like, I'll be right back, 00:23:11.539 --> 00:23:13.400 buddy. And they start like petting them and doing 00:23:13.400 --> 00:23:16.299 all of these things. Imagine if you dropped your 00:23:16.299 --> 00:23:19.200 kid off at kindergarten on their first day and 00:23:19.200 --> 00:23:22.079 you started crying and you were like hugging 00:23:22.079 --> 00:23:24.980 them and didn't want to like let go. the emotional 00:23:24.980 --> 00:23:28.119 state of that child is now going to match your 00:23:28.119 --> 00:23:30.660 emotional state. If they were fine when you got 00:23:30.660 --> 00:23:32.819 out of the car, but you started getting upset, 00:23:33.119 --> 00:23:35.819 well, they're like, well, my mom's upset. I should 00:23:35.819 --> 00:23:38.940 probably be upset too. Why is she upset? I don't 00:23:38.940 --> 00:23:41.960 know, but now we're both upset. That's how you 00:23:41.960 --> 00:23:43.400 have to look at it when you have a dog that's 00:23:43.400 --> 00:23:45.920 like, well, don't leave me. I want to go with 00:23:45.920 --> 00:23:51.920 you. I have seen people that have let the dog 00:23:52.460 --> 00:23:56.599 like control their lives because they lived in 00:23:56.599 --> 00:23:59.700 an apartment or in a townhome and if they left 00:23:59.700 --> 00:24:03.259 their dog barked to the point where like their 00:24:03.259 --> 00:24:06.220 landlord was like if you don't fix it like you 00:24:06.220 --> 00:24:11.779 have to move um and so they would have someone 00:24:11.779 --> 00:24:15.480 hired to come over to their apartment or it would 00:24:15.480 --> 00:24:18.480 think it was a townhome um come over to her townhome 00:24:18.960 --> 00:24:22.759 like every day and spend the day with her dog 00:24:22.759 --> 00:24:27.039 like spend the day not just like drop -ins to 00:24:27.039 --> 00:24:28.839 let them out to go to the bathroom it's like 00:24:28.839 --> 00:24:35.799 because the dog could not be alone why why would 00:24:35.799 --> 00:24:37.759 they not go with a crate i think at one point 00:24:37.759 --> 00:24:39.640 it was a wire crate they had a bad experience 00:24:39.640 --> 00:24:42.940 and they like nixed crates completely and then 00:24:42.940 --> 00:24:46.160 it became an instance where they got a crate 00:24:46.890 --> 00:24:50.509 The dog would get so crazy when she went to go 00:24:50.509 --> 00:24:52.569 put him in the crate that he would injure himself 00:24:52.569 --> 00:24:55.410 or her in the process because he knew that that 00:24:55.410 --> 00:24:56.950 was the signal that she was going to leave him 00:24:56.950 --> 00:25:00.150 alone. She ended up having to take him to the 00:25:00.150 --> 00:25:03.769 gym with her. She took that dog everywhere because 00:25:03.769 --> 00:25:08.500 she felt as though she could not leave him. And 00:25:08.500 --> 00:25:12.859 it got really extensive. She eventually got extensive 00:25:12.859 --> 00:25:15.839 training for him, but it took a long time to 00:25:15.839 --> 00:25:20.220 even convince her to get help for that dog. And 00:25:20.220 --> 00:25:22.240 it was like, that dog is not mentally healthy. 00:25:22.539 --> 00:25:26.579 That dog doesn't want to feel that way and shouldn't 00:25:26.579 --> 00:25:29.059 have to feel that way. And this is where the 00:25:29.059 --> 00:25:32.160 whole conversation, it does get emotional because 00:25:32.160 --> 00:25:36.720 no one wants... No one that I've ever talked 00:25:36.720 --> 00:25:40.640 to, no one calls a professional dog trainer and 00:25:40.640 --> 00:25:43.240 then is like, yeah, I really don't care about 00:25:43.240 --> 00:25:46.200 my dog, so I want to pay for training. That's 00:25:46.200 --> 00:25:50.440 not real. So everyone that we talk to always 00:25:50.440 --> 00:25:53.160 loves their dog. By the time they've reached 00:25:53.160 --> 00:25:56.599 out to me, they're seeking out a dog trainer. 00:25:57.390 --> 00:26:00.369 They've already passed a few steps. They've tried 00:26:00.369 --> 00:26:02.750 some things. They've tried some things and they 00:26:02.750 --> 00:26:05.329 really care about their dog. So there's no part 00:26:05.329 --> 00:26:07.210 of this that we're like, ah, these owners, blah, 00:26:07.309 --> 00:26:10.430 blah, blah. Everyone that we work with loves 00:26:10.430 --> 00:26:14.910 and cares about their dog. Yeah. But we have 00:26:14.910 --> 00:26:19.289 to understand that the love and affection can't 00:26:19.289 --> 00:26:22.089 rule that relationship. Right. When people end 00:26:22.089 --> 00:26:25.069 up reaching out to us as they're like. final 00:26:25.069 --> 00:26:28.369 resort or, you know, their next step that they 00:26:28.369 --> 00:26:31.970 feel like they need to take. It typically comes 00:26:31.970 --> 00:26:35.829 down to they love their dog so much that they 00:26:35.829 --> 00:26:38.529 can't show them tough love. And that's what the 00:26:38.529 --> 00:26:42.710 dog needs in order to feel like they can function 00:26:42.710 --> 00:26:46.230 in everyday life. Right. And tough love is also 00:26:46.230 --> 00:26:51.150 just renamed like, you know, calm. Right. Rock 00:26:51.150 --> 00:26:56.650 solid leadership. Yeah. You know what is good 00:26:56.650 --> 00:27:01.250 for your dog. Yeah. More than they do. Yep. Absolutely. 00:27:01.250 --> 00:27:03.609 And so even though they are short -sighted and 00:27:03.609 --> 00:27:06.990 they can't see it. It could be right in front 00:27:06.990 --> 00:27:09.170 of their face, but they can't see it. You have 00:27:09.170 --> 00:27:11.450 to guide them through that door. Right, because 00:27:11.450 --> 00:27:13.109 if your dog looked at a chocolate bar and was 00:27:13.109 --> 00:27:14.509 like, I'm going to eat that, for sure you're 00:27:14.509 --> 00:27:16.450 going to stop them because you know that it's 00:27:16.450 --> 00:27:18.930 not good for them. Right, grapes. Toxic to dogs. 00:27:19.130 --> 00:27:21.930 You're not supposed to have grapes. And you will 00:27:21.930 --> 00:27:23.890 tell them no for that. They love grapes. But 00:27:23.890 --> 00:27:29.869 if your dogs don't love grapes. They love anything 00:27:29.869 --> 00:27:32.049 that they can eat most of the time. I got a call 00:27:32.049 --> 00:27:35.069 about all the grapes that this dog ate. And it 00:27:35.069 --> 00:27:36.710 was like, what do I do? There was something wrong 00:27:36.710 --> 00:27:41.490 with that dog. All right. Back on track. Continue. 00:27:41.609 --> 00:27:44.490 I don't actually know what I was about to say 00:27:44.490 --> 00:27:48.170 now. It went away that quick. Oh, the chocolate 00:27:48.170 --> 00:27:50.390 bar. You're going to tell them no for that, right? 00:27:50.490 --> 00:27:53.259 Because you understand that it's unhealthy. But 00:27:53.259 --> 00:27:55.319 what I want people to start, like, picking up 00:27:55.319 --> 00:27:57.119 on, and I always, like, play, like, the brain 00:27:57.119 --> 00:27:59.740 games with the dogs and stuff and, like, deal 00:27:59.740 --> 00:28:02.259 with, like, the crazy behavior because that's 00:28:02.259 --> 00:28:05.039 what I like is I like to see a dog, like, go 00:28:05.039 --> 00:28:07.839 from being so, like, mentally unhealthy to being 00:28:07.839 --> 00:28:11.539 like, oh, my gosh, I'm alive and the sun is shining 00:28:11.539 --> 00:28:16.000 and everything is okay today. And there's a... 00:28:16.279 --> 00:28:18.319 there's a huge impact that you can make on a 00:28:18.319 --> 00:28:21.079 dog, but nobody looks at a dog that's stressed 00:28:21.079 --> 00:28:26.440 and thinks that they're mentally like suffering 00:28:26.440 --> 00:28:30.799 or, or in mental crisis. Right. But we will look 00:28:30.799 --> 00:28:34.880 at a human who's like laying in bed all day or 00:28:34.880 --> 00:28:37.440 has a problem regulating themselves. And it's 00:28:37.440 --> 00:28:40.180 like, Oh, well they have like mental health, 00:28:40.240 --> 00:28:44.660 like issues. So to dogs, like it's, it's different 00:28:44.660 --> 00:28:47.740 for sure. It's, certainly not the same thing 00:28:47.740 --> 00:28:50.839 and doesn't have all the medications that humans 00:28:50.839 --> 00:28:53.599 have for whatever their brain things are but 00:28:53.599 --> 00:28:56.619 we're not doctors we don't know yeah i'm not 00:28:56.619 --> 00:28:59.619 a doctor i have no idea i don't know yeah but 00:28:59.619 --> 00:29:04.019 i i still want people to look at dogs and and 00:29:04.019 --> 00:29:08.380 know that the tough love training side that we 00:29:08.380 --> 00:29:10.859 come from is because we want to see dogs that 00:29:10.859 --> 00:29:13.630 are mentally healthy yeah We want dogs to feel 00:29:13.630 --> 00:29:17.349 safe and secure and okay with their lives and 00:29:17.349 --> 00:29:19.690 not have to be stressed or scared or worried 00:29:19.690 --> 00:29:23.410 and all of those things. Yeah, 100%. All right. 00:29:23.430 --> 00:29:26.250 So at this point, I want to open it up. If anybody 00:29:26.250 --> 00:29:29.769 wants to jump in with a story or something to 00:29:29.769 --> 00:29:33.589 add on this whole subject, I'll give it just 00:29:33.589 --> 00:29:39.160 a minute. But it'd be great to hear some. other 00:29:39.160 --> 00:29:42.119 angles of it. I'm sure that we've left out or 00:29:42.119 --> 00:29:46.059 missed some little things, but that's where sometimes 00:29:46.059 --> 00:29:49.940 people fill in the gaps for us. And if not, no 00:29:49.940 --> 00:29:54.940 problem. We can, we can drive right along. Let's 00:29:54.940 --> 00:30:02.359 give it another second here. All right. I will 00:30:02.359 --> 00:30:04.359 throw it in the chat window. If you think of 00:30:04.359 --> 00:30:08.339 something that you want to contribute. And we 00:30:08.339 --> 00:30:11.359 will drive forward with here's the meat and potatoes. 00:30:11.960 --> 00:30:17.319 This is what we're going to. Hold on a second. 00:30:21.440 --> 00:30:27.440 OK, cool. All right. The meat and potatoes of 00:30:27.440 --> 00:30:31.200 tonight is how do we fix this? What do we do 00:30:31.200 --> 00:30:38.609 about it? So. The overarching solution here. 00:30:38.670 --> 00:30:43.109 It's going to sound so basic, though. No one 00:30:43.109 --> 00:30:44.410 wants to hear this. Nobody wants to hear it. 00:30:44.450 --> 00:30:47.230 Just turn it off. Turn the podcast off. Dogs. 00:30:47.829 --> 00:30:54.029 Your dog has to learn how to be calm by themselves. 00:30:54.349 --> 00:30:59.089 By themselves. Right. And now how do we do that 00:30:59.089 --> 00:31:02.349 is the million dollar question. And that's usually 00:31:02.349 --> 00:31:04.289 why people end up reaching out to dog trainers. 00:31:05.369 --> 00:31:10.650 The answer to the question is they learn calmness 00:31:10.650 --> 00:31:17.309 by being alone. Yep. And then we just modify 00:31:17.309 --> 00:31:20.930 it and we change it and we add duration and distance 00:31:20.930 --> 00:31:24.230 and some distraction and we build impulse control 00:31:24.230 --> 00:31:26.990 and all of these things so that then the dog 00:31:26.990 --> 00:31:32.150 can be alone. Yeah. And that's literally the 00:31:32.150 --> 00:31:34.680 solution. Yeah, because the number one thing 00:31:34.680 --> 00:31:37.660 you could do when you bring a dog home is put 00:31:37.660 --> 00:31:40.720 their kennel space somewhere with a little bit 00:31:40.720 --> 00:31:44.759 of distance from you. Yeah. Because that automatically 00:31:44.759 --> 00:31:47.640 just teaches them right from the get -go. It's 00:31:47.640 --> 00:31:50.200 like, hey, cool. We have time together, but then 00:31:50.200 --> 00:31:53.700 we have time apart. Yeah. And we see a lot of 00:31:53.700 --> 00:31:56.420 times with multi -dog households that people 00:31:56.420 --> 00:31:59.579 got the other dog so that the other dog wouldn't 00:31:59.579 --> 00:32:03.390 be alone. Yeah. It was like, well. yeah there's 00:32:03.390 --> 00:32:07.890 we are right we supported right most a lot of 00:32:07.890 --> 00:32:10.950 people get the second dog so that their first 00:32:10.950 --> 00:32:15.490 dog doesn't have to exhibit separation frustration 00:32:15.490 --> 00:32:18.049 or two at the same time they get two together 00:32:18.049 --> 00:32:20.910 and they're like well we wanted two so that they 00:32:20.910 --> 00:32:23.630 can stay together right so they can stay together 00:32:23.630 --> 00:32:26.009 yeah right and there's other things that come 00:32:26.009 --> 00:32:28.009 up we've talked about those in some other episodes 00:32:28.009 --> 00:32:30.529 but when you get two dogs so that they can play 00:32:30.529 --> 00:32:34.180 together and then you put them together 24 -7, 00:32:34.220 --> 00:32:40.180 and they live outside together in an outside 00:32:40.180 --> 00:32:45.640 yard or an area or whatever, what are the odds 00:32:45.640 --> 00:32:48.500 that they're going to listen to you when you 00:32:48.500 --> 00:32:51.059 want them to do something? You're like the least 00:32:51.059 --> 00:32:54.700 exciting thing. Everything that the dogs do is 00:32:54.700 --> 00:32:57.299 way more fun, way more exciting. They speak the 00:32:57.299 --> 00:32:58.799 same language. Because they make the rules. They 00:32:58.799 --> 00:33:00.740 make the rules. They do what they want during 00:33:00.740 --> 00:33:03.650 the day. And so you've created a totally different 00:33:03.650 --> 00:33:05.829 issue. That's not the one we're talking about, 00:33:05.910 --> 00:33:08.609 though, so I'll get back on track. Okay. The 00:33:08.609 --> 00:33:13.450 separation part. When you are kenneling a dog 00:33:13.450 --> 00:33:17.490 with another dog in the house, we highly recommend 00:33:17.490 --> 00:33:20.809 that you separate them. Yeah. It doesn't have 00:33:20.809 --> 00:33:24.269 to be forever, right? Depending on your house, 00:33:24.329 --> 00:33:26.049 you might not have that room where you're like, 00:33:26.230 --> 00:33:28.190 oh, cool, I can just put a dog in this room and 00:33:28.190 --> 00:33:29.809 a dog in that room. That might not work for you. 00:33:29.990 --> 00:33:32.410 I get it. But put something between them. Yeah. 00:33:32.589 --> 00:33:35.329 You know, put some piece of furniture, put one 00:33:35.329 --> 00:33:37.029 on one side of the couch, one on the other. Yep. 00:33:37.289 --> 00:33:41.329 Whatever it is that you do, you want to create 00:33:41.329 --> 00:33:45.569 some distance because that's going to help you 00:33:45.569 --> 00:33:49.210 out in the long run. All right. So then the next 00:33:49.210 --> 00:33:53.069 step here, we want to teach short structured 00:33:53.069 --> 00:33:58.170 absences starting in the same room. If it's that 00:33:58.170 --> 00:34:03.380 bad. Yeah. We start really small, like place 00:34:03.380 --> 00:34:09.260 in the same room. Place is awesome for teaching 00:34:09.260 --> 00:34:13.599 impulse control and teaching and reversing this 00:34:13.599 --> 00:34:19.780 separation, anxiousness and frustration. To go 00:34:19.780 --> 00:34:23.179 back to the Cesar Millan thing, the reference 00:34:23.179 --> 00:34:28.880 point. It's place. It's place. Imagine you put 00:34:28.880 --> 00:34:32.119 a place bed, though, to explain what this is 00:34:32.119 --> 00:34:34.460 and how you can use it, apply it to your house. 00:34:34.900 --> 00:34:39.059 It's really, it's a useful concept. You want 00:34:39.059 --> 00:34:41.880 to make the place bed the center, the epicenter 00:34:41.880 --> 00:34:46.519 of that room. And then you're going to draw imaginary 00:34:46.519 --> 00:34:50.550 lines. around the place, but getting further 00:34:50.550 --> 00:34:52.789 and further. Yeah. Just like a target. If you 00:34:52.789 --> 00:34:56.050 were looking at it from the top and they're imaginary, 00:34:56.269 --> 00:35:00.630 don't, don't, don't draw. So the, um, we draw 00:35:00.630 --> 00:35:02.769 these lines a little bit bigger, a little bit 00:35:02.769 --> 00:35:05.570 bigger, a little bit bigger. Now what we do is 00:35:05.570 --> 00:35:09.369 we start on the interior line and we start trying 00:35:09.369 --> 00:35:12.989 to cross that line. And as your dog stays on 00:35:12.989 --> 00:35:16.090 their place, we reward them. And then you can 00:35:16.090 --> 00:35:19.489 go to the next line. And as their dog stays on 00:35:19.489 --> 00:35:22.190 their place, we can increase our distance, our 00:35:22.190 --> 00:35:26.329 distraction and our duration. Those are the three 00:35:26.329 --> 00:35:30.550 ways that we proof place. And in proofing place, 00:35:30.730 --> 00:35:36.090 we increase the ability for the dog to go. I 00:35:36.090 --> 00:35:40.750 didn't die. My mom and my dad, they went over 00:35:40.750 --> 00:35:44.489 there and then they came back for me and they 00:35:44.489 --> 00:35:50.670 were really excited. That I did this. Now we 00:35:50.670 --> 00:35:54.510 reinforce that. Yeah. Okay. So then you go further 00:35:54.510 --> 00:35:58.050 and further and further and further until eventually 00:35:58.050 --> 00:36:01.809 you can go to the front door and back. You can 00:36:01.809 --> 00:36:05.349 go outside and then back. And then we start. 00:36:06.000 --> 00:36:08.360 You know, closing a door and then we count to 00:36:08.360 --> 00:36:10.880 three and then we open the door and we go back 00:36:10.880 --> 00:36:12.800 in and then we go outside and we count to five. 00:36:12.920 --> 00:36:15.079 The biggest mistake that we usually make here 00:36:15.079 --> 00:36:18.760 is that we get like five steps away and then 00:36:18.760 --> 00:36:20.980 we're like, wow, they're doing so good. Let me 00:36:20.980 --> 00:36:24.039 walk into the other room. Yeah. That's like you 00:36:24.039 --> 00:36:27.480 went too hard, too fast. And then your dog breaks. 00:36:27.519 --> 00:36:32.280 And now you have in for or reinforced a bad habit 00:36:32.280 --> 00:36:34.769 instead of a good one. Yeah. Dogs are pattern 00:36:34.769 --> 00:36:38.070 based. So the more that we enforce the good habits, 00:36:38.110 --> 00:36:40.550 the less bad ones we'll have to deal with because 00:36:40.550 --> 00:36:42.750 they'll die out naturally. Right. And eventually 00:36:42.750 --> 00:36:44.929 like you test your dog, right? And teach them 00:36:44.929 --> 00:36:48.449 the difference between staying and not staying. 00:36:48.590 --> 00:36:51.469 But in the very beginning, the more successful 00:36:51.469 --> 00:36:54.530 that you set the dog up for, or the more success 00:36:54.530 --> 00:36:56.969 that you set the dog up for, the faster that 00:36:56.969 --> 00:37:02.159 they're going to learn. Yeah. So. Using that 00:37:02.159 --> 00:37:06.079 same concept, but using plates, place beds, crates, 00:37:06.239 --> 00:37:11.579 or just defined areas like the mantle of a fireplace 00:37:11.579 --> 00:37:17.599 or the couch or a rug or a carpet square. All 00:37:17.599 --> 00:37:21.360 of those things have definitive borders and you 00:37:21.360 --> 00:37:25.500 can hold your dog accountable to stay on them. 00:37:26.329 --> 00:37:28.650 then you slowly build that duration, distance, 00:37:28.769 --> 00:37:31.110 and distraction in, and you slowly get further 00:37:31.110 --> 00:37:35.010 and further away through those concentric circles. 00:37:35.409 --> 00:37:41.250 Yep. All right. Next, we start building calm 00:37:41.250 --> 00:37:45.570 routines. Your dog is very, very good at picking 00:37:45.570 --> 00:37:48.309 up on routines. Right. That's why when you put 00:37:48.309 --> 00:37:50.510 your shoes on and pick up your keys, they're 00:37:50.510 --> 00:37:55.179 already like... So we find those routines that 00:37:55.179 --> 00:37:58.820 we've already accidentally built excitement and 00:37:58.820 --> 00:38:03.500 anxiety in, and we start repeating them, but 00:38:03.500 --> 00:38:08.119 with calmness, in slow motion, with relaxation 00:38:08.119 --> 00:38:12.900 being the theme. And then we start building in 00:38:12.900 --> 00:38:18.099 some more duration in between the event that 00:38:18.099 --> 00:38:21.519 is spiking their... anxiety or their frustration 00:38:21.519 --> 00:38:25.260 yeah and the actual event that ends up taking 00:38:25.260 --> 00:38:29.659 place for example i pick up my keys and then 00:38:29.659 --> 00:38:32.500 i go to the door and i leave so now when i and 00:38:32.500 --> 00:38:35.059 the dog knows this so now when i pick up my keys 00:38:35.059 --> 00:38:39.420 they go crazy yep well so now i need to very 00:38:39.420 --> 00:38:43.300 calmly go pick up my keys and then very calmly 00:38:43.300 --> 00:38:47.780 go sit back down yeah and then very calmly go 00:38:47.780 --> 00:38:50.929 put my keys back And then go pet the dog. Yeah. 00:38:51.449 --> 00:38:54.730 And then do this over and over and over and vary 00:38:54.730 --> 00:38:59.650 it and modify it and change it until the keys 00:38:59.650 --> 00:39:05.030 are no longer a factor for ramping the dog up. 00:39:05.230 --> 00:39:07.150 Right. And the amount of time that that's going 00:39:07.150 --> 00:39:09.110 to take is going to depend on the dog and how 00:39:09.110 --> 00:39:11.250 like locked in they really are on your patterns 00:39:11.250 --> 00:39:14.650 because. I was talking to a friend about this 00:39:14.650 --> 00:39:17.110 today, and they're having a problem with their 00:39:17.110 --> 00:39:20.090 dog invading their space when they go to pet 00:39:20.090 --> 00:39:23.909 their second dog now. And she's like, well, I 00:39:23.909 --> 00:39:27.809 put my dog down off the couch when she does that, 00:39:27.869 --> 00:39:30.489 but she's still doing it. And I was like, right, 00:39:30.570 --> 00:39:32.550 well, how long has it been? And it's like, well, 00:39:32.610 --> 00:39:36.889 like a week. Right, that's not really long enough, 00:39:37.050 --> 00:39:39.409 because guaranteed she only does it maybe like 00:39:39.409 --> 00:39:43.500 once a day. Yeah. not multiple times the repetitions 00:39:43.500 --> 00:39:46.739 matter yeah and so it doesn't matter how long 00:39:46.739 --> 00:39:49.119 it is it could be a year well we did it for a 00:39:49.119 --> 00:39:51.579 year right it's like well how many times did 00:39:51.579 --> 00:39:54.380 it happen that year well three right okay well 00:39:54.380 --> 00:39:57.380 also if you're doing it sometimes but not other 00:39:57.380 --> 00:39:59.820 times that's going to break that pattern down 00:39:59.820 --> 00:40:03.460 correct and so what we also come into is We talk 00:40:03.460 --> 00:40:05.239 about the rules of threes with dogs and this 00:40:05.239 --> 00:40:07.139 is what I told her. I was like, you remember 00:40:07.139 --> 00:40:08.980 the rules of three? I told you three days, three 00:40:08.980 --> 00:40:10.420 weeks, three months. And she's like, oh yeah, 00:40:10.480 --> 00:40:13.139 that three month rule, that kicks hard. Right, 00:40:13.219 --> 00:40:16.920 it does. It's real. And I think the dogs have 00:40:16.920 --> 00:40:19.519 calendars in their kennels and they're like, 00:40:19.559 --> 00:40:22.420 I'm going to count it down. But when you're looking 00:40:22.420 --> 00:40:25.159 at changing a behavior and a pattern, give it 00:40:25.159 --> 00:40:28.550 three weeks. Don't do something for a week. and 00:40:28.550 --> 00:40:30.289 think that the dog's going to pick up on it will 00:40:30.289 --> 00:40:33.210 they maybe yeah it depends on what you do and 00:40:33.210 --> 00:40:36.530 how you do it with the dog but when you're looking 00:40:36.530 --> 00:40:39.030 at really changing a like structured behavior 00:40:39.030 --> 00:40:44.030 you have to be really you know insistent on how 00:40:44.030 --> 00:40:50.409 consistent you are when you are breaking those 00:40:50.409 --> 00:40:52.809 patterns down on a dog because they can build 00:40:52.809 --> 00:41:01.780 them up really strong yeah yeah Physical and 00:41:01.780 --> 00:41:03.800 mental needs. Yep, meeting physical and mental 00:41:03.800 --> 00:41:06.360 needs is next. So if you have a dog that's a 00:41:06.360 --> 00:41:08.519 high drive dog and like you've done nothing all 00:41:08.519 --> 00:41:10.880 day but be aloof with them and be like, oh, we're 00:41:10.880 --> 00:41:12.019 going to cuddle on the couch and then I have 00:41:12.019 --> 00:41:14.780 to leave and go to work. And your dog has a high 00:41:14.780 --> 00:41:17.539 drive, that dog's immediately going to have a 00:41:17.539 --> 00:41:23.079 hard time, right? And so if they're based towards 00:41:23.079 --> 00:41:25.219 separation anxiety, not every high drive dog. 00:41:25.849 --> 00:41:28.030 Um, we can put our high drive dogs in a kennel 00:41:28.030 --> 00:41:29.690 and they're like, oh, okay, cool. I'm going to 00:41:29.690 --> 00:41:33.090 relax. But, but that only came from doing that. 00:41:33.630 --> 00:41:35.710 Right. Over and over and over and over and over. 00:41:36.110 --> 00:41:37.750 Dexter's literally done it since he was two. 00:41:37.829 --> 00:41:40.949 And he still sometimes is like, oh, because he 00:41:40.949 --> 00:41:44.349 has like severe FOMO of like, well, I want to 00:41:44.349 --> 00:41:47.010 go out and play. It's not because he's anxious 00:41:47.010 --> 00:41:49.650 that we're literally like leaving. He's just 00:41:49.650 --> 00:41:52.769 like, well, I, I want to go. I want to bite something. 00:41:52.869 --> 00:41:54.610 Yeah. I want to go. I want to, I want to play. 00:41:56.230 --> 00:42:00.750 But if you don't meet physical and mental needs 00:42:00.750 --> 00:42:03.170 of a dog and then you put them in confinement, 00:42:03.429 --> 00:42:05.610 they're obviously going to have some of that 00:42:05.610 --> 00:42:09.530 anxiety and that frustration more drawn out. 00:42:09.730 --> 00:42:14.409 Yeah. And I'll lead into one of Bree's favorite 00:42:14.409 --> 00:42:20.550 questions in an evaluation is, well, what do 00:42:20.550 --> 00:42:23.210 you know about this breed and why did you choose 00:42:23.210 --> 00:42:28.809 them, right? Because they every dog is genetically 00:42:28.809 --> 00:42:33.550 predisposed to wanting and needing certain things. 00:42:33.630 --> 00:42:37.849 Yeah. If you have a little Australian Shepherd. 00:42:37.889 --> 00:42:44.590 Yeah. And you're crazy. And you're like, well, 00:42:44.690 --> 00:42:47.150 yeah, I just want her to live on the couch with 00:42:47.150 --> 00:42:50.690 me because I that's what I do. You know, I'm 00:42:50.690 --> 00:42:53.219 I just. I sit on the couch. I work from home. 00:42:53.280 --> 00:42:55.340 I don't go anywhere. I don't do anything. You 00:42:55.340 --> 00:42:57.320 got the wrong dog. Yeah, you got the wrong dog. 00:42:57.440 --> 00:43:00.920 Because and then it's cute. Right. And then we 00:43:00.920 --> 00:43:03.980 get the well, when guests come over and kids 00:43:03.980 --> 00:43:05.980 come over and there's other dogs or whatever, 00:43:06.079 --> 00:43:08.480 it runs around and it hops up and it's nipping 00:43:08.480 --> 00:43:11.460 at things. Right. Well, it's doing all the things 00:43:11.460 --> 00:43:16.119 that it's programmed to do. Right. Right. So 00:43:16.119 --> 00:43:19.460 you've got the mental and physical needs that 00:43:19.460 --> 00:43:23.019 we're talking about is specific to your dog. 00:43:23.179 --> 00:43:29.059 What do they find satisfying and fulfilling to 00:43:29.059 --> 00:43:32.460 do? And we need to let them do some of that. 00:43:32.679 --> 00:43:35.059 Yeah. And if you let them do that immediately 00:43:35.059 --> 00:43:39.400 before you leave, you'll have a better time. 00:43:39.500 --> 00:43:42.760 Yeah, for sure. You'll also just meet the dog's 00:43:42.760 --> 00:43:46.019 needs. So then that. act the the physical level 00:43:46.019 --> 00:43:49.880 of frustration in the dog will automatically 00:43:49.880 --> 00:43:54.579 go down yeah now you might not even notice some 00:43:54.579 --> 00:43:59.500 of the other like symptoms yeah um or you might 00:43:59.500 --> 00:44:02.539 right every dog is different so i'm not treating 00:44:02.539 --> 00:44:04.639 any of these as like the silver bullet you just 00:44:04.639 --> 00:44:08.239 do this and it's fixed yeah this is just the 00:44:08.239 --> 00:44:13.599 process these are the steps The last one, I've 00:44:13.599 --> 00:44:16.460 talked about it a couple of times, but we need 00:44:16.460 --> 00:44:19.239 to increase the duration of anything that we're 00:44:19.239 --> 00:44:22.780 using, everything that we're doing here, but 00:44:22.780 --> 00:44:29.019 especially time in the crate. Yep. Separation 00:44:29.019 --> 00:44:35.400 anxious and separation frustrated dogs. Almost 00:44:35.400 --> 00:44:40.969 always. I don't want to say always. On a podcast 00:44:40.969 --> 00:44:44.989 that anybody could listen to. But the concept 00:44:44.989 --> 00:44:49.329 is that almost always these dogs, they do better 00:44:49.329 --> 00:44:54.050 when you give them firm, definitive structure. 00:44:54.590 --> 00:45:01.630 And a crate isolates them and forces them to 00:45:01.630 --> 00:45:05.550 be by themselves. Which is not anything that 00:45:05.550 --> 00:45:11.610 anybody loves to do. I totally understand. But 00:45:11.610 --> 00:45:18.630 it's very often the right thing to do to guide 00:45:18.630 --> 00:45:22.829 your dog and to lead your dog to a better life 00:45:22.829 --> 00:45:28.309 overall. Yeah. So with that, I'm going to open 00:45:28.309 --> 00:45:30.849 it up for questions before we get to listener 00:45:30.849 --> 00:45:37.329 projects. So the line is open and I think. I 00:45:37.329 --> 00:45:42.329 have our non -copyrighted Jeopardy music queued 00:45:42.329 --> 00:45:45.750 up and ready to go. So if you've got a question, 00:45:45.869 --> 00:46:01.469 now is your time. And then we'll move on to listener 00:46:01.469 --> 00:46:14.139 projects. All right. Listener project number 00:46:14.139 --> 00:46:18.739 one, independent sessions. So settle the dog 00:46:18.739 --> 00:46:22.500 down on place or in a crate, reward the calm 00:46:22.500 --> 00:46:27.179 behavior, and then just start practicing increasing 00:46:27.179 --> 00:46:30.260 the distance a little bit further, a little bit 00:46:30.260 --> 00:46:32.980 further, a little bit further until you can walk 00:46:32.980 --> 00:46:37.460 outside, maybe with the door open and you continue 00:46:37.460 --> 00:46:40.960 to use those continuation markers. that we've 00:46:40.960 --> 00:46:45.099 talked about before, you probably didn't get 00:46:45.099 --> 00:46:48.199 this far without knowing what marker words are. 00:46:49.219 --> 00:46:51.980 But if you did, go back to, I think it's maybe 00:46:51.980 --> 00:46:53.860 like episode three, I think we talked about marker 00:46:53.860 --> 00:46:59.400 words. But reward your dog for spending time 00:46:59.400 --> 00:47:03.780 away from you. That's the concept. Reward and 00:47:03.780 --> 00:47:08.619 praise your dog for spending time away from you. 00:47:10.349 --> 00:47:13.150 is important. All right. Number two, calm departure 00:47:13.150 --> 00:47:18.489 routine. We want to remove the emotional craziness 00:47:18.489 --> 00:47:23.090 from you leaving. You have to be strong for your 00:47:23.090 --> 00:47:25.889 dog and you have to show the dog through your 00:47:25.889 --> 00:47:29.070 body language, which is far and above what your 00:47:29.070 --> 00:47:33.190 dog will listen to over your words and over just 00:47:33.190 --> 00:47:37.949 random happenstance. your uh how you carry yourself 00:47:37.949 --> 00:47:40.230 with your body language is going to be very important 00:47:40.230 --> 00:47:45.369 so this is the time to suck it up buttercup and 00:47:45.369 --> 00:47:49.670 we remove that emotional ritual from leaving 00:47:49.670 --> 00:47:56.289 leave and return neutrally yep and if your dog's 00:47:56.289 --> 00:47:57.869 not in a crate you don't put them in a crate 00:47:57.869 --> 00:48:00.369 and you just let them roam around okay cool then 00:48:00.369 --> 00:48:03.000 practice leaving Yeah. Practice leaving through 00:48:03.000 --> 00:48:04.900 the door without them rushing the door, without 00:48:04.900 --> 00:48:09.860 them freaking out. By the time that you go in 00:48:09.860 --> 00:48:13.880 and out of that house 50 times, one, you'll be 00:48:13.880 --> 00:48:17.039 ready for lunch. And two, your dog will probably 00:48:17.039 --> 00:48:19.079 just go lay down because they're like, my mom 00:48:19.079 --> 00:48:21.920 and dad have lost their minds. I don't know what 00:48:21.920 --> 00:48:23.659 they're doing, but I'm going to go lay down because 00:48:23.659 --> 00:48:28.800 this is weird. That is a step in the right direction. 00:48:29.340 --> 00:48:33.360 Yep. And then you just reinforce it. Track your 00:48:33.360 --> 00:48:36.960 progress also. Yeah, that's important. This is 00:48:36.960 --> 00:48:42.780 really important. So we are building an app that 00:48:42.780 --> 00:48:48.139 is, I kind of announced it last week. My target 00:48:48.139 --> 00:48:51.880 is to release it for everybody on May 1st. But 00:48:51.880 --> 00:48:57.320 this app is built around a journal and logging 00:48:57.320 --> 00:49:00.409 feature. The whole thing is based on that. It 00:49:00.409 --> 00:49:03.389 uses AI and uses a bunch of, there's like courses 00:49:03.389 --> 00:49:05.449 and things and instruction that, you know, you 00:49:05.449 --> 00:49:08.269 can access. It's totally free. There's, you know, 00:49:08.269 --> 00:49:11.570 premium options for sure, but like everything's 00:49:11.570 --> 00:49:13.789 free and you can use it. All the logging features 00:49:13.789 --> 00:49:17.150 and the journal features are completely free 00:49:17.150 --> 00:49:21.750 because I don't think that people use the journal 00:49:21.750 --> 00:49:26.789 or use a journal enough. Yeah. It's 2026. Everybody's 00:49:26.789 --> 00:49:30.159 got a phone on them. If I can make an app that 00:49:30.159 --> 00:49:33.480 you literally can just pull out and click like 00:49:33.480 --> 00:49:37.460 three buttons and log like, hey, this went well 00:49:37.460 --> 00:49:40.599 or this went well or this didn't go well. My 00:49:40.599 --> 00:49:43.519 dog had an accident. My dog had an anxious behavior. 00:49:43.739 --> 00:49:47.400 My dog had this. My dog had that. If we can make 00:49:47.400 --> 00:49:50.119 it easy, hopefully dog owners will do it more. 00:49:50.320 --> 00:49:53.980 Yeah. Because keeping a log of your progress 00:49:53.980 --> 00:50:00.360 is super, super important. With that, I will 00:50:00.360 --> 00:50:03.239 close it out. You got anything else? No, that 00:50:03.239 --> 00:50:06.500 was a good one. All right. Well, with that, I 00:50:06.500 --> 00:50:09.800 will basically bid you good night. Thank you 00:50:09.800 --> 00:50:13.400 for everybody that has tuned in. Thanks, guys, 00:50:13.440 --> 00:50:18.460 for being on the call. We will have this episode 00:50:18.460 --> 00:50:23.579 should go live next Monday. So where's that? 00:50:24.199 --> 00:50:26.559 I'm real bad at the dates. Like four days. Yeah. 00:50:28.590 --> 00:50:31.010 If you are listening to this, you found this 00:50:31.010 --> 00:50:34.570 podcast and it helped you, give us a rating. 00:50:34.710 --> 00:50:39.489 I would love to collect stars around here. Give 00:50:39.489 --> 00:50:42.969 us a rating, leave us a review, or leave us a 00:50:42.969 --> 00:50:44.610 comment. Let us know how we're doing. I'm always 00:50:44.610 --> 00:50:47.090 trying to get better. Thanks, guys. Have a good 00:50:47.090 --> 00:50:47.690 night. Good night.