Welcome to Pawprint Academy, your blueprint to
raising better dogs. My name is Ryan, and I'll
be your host for this journey. I've got my trusty
co -host here, Brianna. Hello. And together,
we're bringing you real -world training insights
built on leadership, structure, and proven methods.
We record this podcast with live clients on the
line in one take with live, unscripted questions
and answers. At the end of the day, this podcast
is a lot more than just teaching your dog to
sit or stay. creating calmness, and becoming
the kind of leader your dog truly needs. We do
that with our three pillar method of trust, obey,
and perform. Together, we'll show you how these
three pillars shape every step of training. Thanks
for being here. Let's get started. All right.
Hey, everybody. Episode 23 coming at you. Separation
anxiety versus separation frustration. Knowing
the difference because it matters. Right. So
today we're talking about the difference between
these two things that we get calls all the time
for. My dog absolutely hates being on, you know,
by themselves. Okay. Well, there's different
things that that they can be. And it's easy to
say things and words that we use in the human
vernacular that's like, oh, well, it's anxiety.
Yeah. Well, anxiety is a very human type emotion.
I saw it on Inside Out. And it's a real person.
The concept, though, doesn't always completely.
align to your dog yeah sometimes they're just
frustrated sometimes they're unhappy or dissatisfied
for a reason that we could meet and relieve some
of that so -called anxiety that we point the
finger at yeah all right so to uh remind anyone
who is uh or hasn't been here in a while the
um The chat window is open. So for our live clients
that are on the line with us on the Zoom call,
you can drop a message into there if we're babbling
and talking. And I'll answer it as they come
up. I've got it up there. And then we will work
our way through here. Super exciting development.
I've got a statistic today. Oh, fun. We have...
Got 170 listens to the podcast in the last 30
days. Nice. So that's exciting. Yeah, that's
exciting. Slowly climbing the mountain. Slowly.
We explained it on the intro, but this call is
recorded. And so anything you say might end up
on a recording. Can it be used against you? Yeah,
absolutely. The goal is not to stick it to somebody.
The goal is to have a group discussion at points
so that everybody can learn from other, you know,
people in their individual situations. Right.
Because not all of our clients know each other,
you know, they don't ever, you know, or not always
interact. I mean, at group they do, but a lot
of times like. We see all of you guys separately,
but we see so many of the same kind of behaviors
or things going on with the same or with each
of your dogs. But it's the same kind of baseline,
you know, behaviors. Yeah, absolutely. Lila says
congrats. Oh, thanks. The. Yeah, absolutely.
Additionally, it's sometimes. difficult to flip
back and forth from dog trainer mode to dog owner
mode and think about things from a typical owner's
like perspective because we're the crazy ones
who like do this 24 7 so that is not lost on
us we're by far certainly not perfect we have
four dogs of our own and they are Wild and crazy
in all of the same ways at times for sure. Right.
And each in their own way. And each in their
own way. They're all living, breathing things.
So we mess it up all the time. But sometimes
we forget what it was like to not know a lot
of the answers or not even the answers, but just
like the direction. Yeah, because for sure I
was like a young kid with a dog and I was like,
this thing is so fun. And then I was like, this
thing is not fun anymore. And just had no idea
like what to do with that. Whereas now we're
dog trainers and we have a little French bulldog
that we still scratch our heads like, what is
she doing? I just have no idea. She like laid
in the sun today and baked herself for a while.
And I was like, we're just going to go with that.
Yeah. She's kind of like a little cow. Yeah.
All right. The core idea for tonight as we roll
into this is that not all dogs that struggle
being left alone have separation anxiety. Not
all of them. Many experience separation frustration.
Many of them experience just boredom. Yeah. And
some of them don't mind. Right. And then some
of them don't mind. Right. Some of them like
to be left alone. But. These things look similar,
but they require very different approaches. So
tonight we're going to kind of go down the road
of diagnosing which one's which, talking about
the differences between the two. I'd love to
hear if you're listening tonight and you're live
on the call, if you think of something that you'd
like to share, by all means, I will open it up
for that sharing. And let's talk about it. Okay.
Separation anxiety and separation frustration.
Not the same. Yep. Here we go. Lumping these
issues together can sometimes lead you down the
wrong path. So let's separate them. You didn't
get it. All right. That's fine. Okay. So separation
anxiety is driven. It's all right. So it's corny.
Separation anxiety is driven by panic and emotional
distress. Yep. This separation anxiety is like
the big one. That's the one where it's like this
dog cannot think through this. Yeah. Right. When
we take a dog that's truly. got separation anxiety,
we have to modify some of the training techniques
that we use because you're not going to break
through. Yeah. This dog is, is literally conditioned
to be in this loop. And just like human anxiety,
if you've ever experienced it, you can't just,
you know, somebody can't yell at you to get you
to snap out of it. Right. You just can't like
turn it off immediately. Yeah, absolutely. um
okay and then separation frustration is driven
by unmet needs lack of structure boredom um a
lack of uh appropriate decision points yeah right
these are the things that grow and build frustration
in a dog because they're like i have nothing
to do or the person that i rely on to make those
decisions is not here and i don't know how to
like stand on my own four paws yeah i'm gonna
cough oh no um and so i had to mute it real quick
you're fine um going through the characteristics
of both anxiety and frustration right so with
anxiety a lot of times you're going to see a
dog that can't stop pacing around vocalizing
like whining and panting trying to escape and
ultimately when you get severe separation anxiety
can it can look like self -injury and like just
they're so redlined that they they don't care
whether they harm themselves or not thinking
that just getting out of that situation will
ease their emotions about it right um this is
that like fight flight freeze yeah like all of
their internal um genetics right are like you're
fighting hormones at this point yeah their nervous
system is just like off the charts right And
then with frustration, a lot of times that looks
like barking, chewing on things and destroying
your home while you're gone. Couch pillows gone,
like bedding gone. Right. And this is not a dog
that is shaking like a leaf. Right. This is a
dog that's like, I guess I'll do this. Yeah.
I'm going to chew that. That looks fine. Right.
Or let me say it different because. The same
thing can happen, but let me say it differently
in a human voice, right? Like, I don't have anything
to do. I guess I'm going to chew on this. Those,
sometimes you just say it a little, sometimes
you say it a little bit differently and it trips
a different trigger in a human brain. Yeah. Yeah,
because we say things with tones, but dogs say
things with barks and whines and different body
language. rather than the words and the tone
that we can use. But ultimately, treating frustration
like anxiety can reinforce that dependence. Because
if you feel that you constantly need to be with
the dog or give the dog something to do, then
you're trying to ease the frustration, but it
can... it can build that separation anxiety where
they learn to rely on you more and more and more
and more and more. So that's where we tend to
lean owners towards teaching a dog how to do
nothing on their own and self -regulate and just
relax without you having to ultimately just direct
them all the time to relax. And in the beginning,
that looks like telling the dog to relax. But
eventually you start conditioning that and the
conditioned relaxation becomes the dog's like
go to of it's it's when it comes down to it.
I'm going to go sciencey. Are you ready? I swear
by next week I'm going to have the little little
whiz noise. Right. The little whiz noise. Yeah.
That would be cool. Right. I don't know if that's
the wrong one. right it'll be like something
like that yeah but i don't like that one because
that's a scary one well it's a scary one but
i'm gonna i'm gonna get it on the panel i like
that we'll have a bill nye the science guy yeah
so mine won't get as um in depth as yours get
but when you look at a dog and you're talking
about self -regulating and conditioning relaxation
You look at balancing and flipping a dog between
their parasympathetic and their sympathetic nervous
system. Right. Crazy. Right. And when you look
at those two, like that's where you have to look
at how a dog reacts and whether you have to continue
telling them to relax until they get to the point
where it's just automatic. It's like your bell
drool food. thing uh pavlov um i was like i can't
remember yeah and so you're classically conditioning
a mindset in a dog to where they can flip their
brain to the off switch and really truly relax
but it's not just relaxation it's balancing their
nervous system yeah um i think that This episode
is going to resound a lot with people. We saw
and dog trainers talk about a lot the 2020 COVID
time where it basically like reset the entire
dog population to have separation anxiety. Right.
And now those dogs are like six. Right. So it's
like a very common thing for this like midlife
dog. to to have right like stage five clingers
everybody has stage five clingers and they're
like because we built this yeah yeah um so let's
go through um why you know these common fixes
that you can just you know google don't always
work so um one excessive reassurance can uh can
can build a dog's confidence but not in them
yeah in you yeah which might throw you off because
you're like well i i want them to you know right
we always talk about you be the leader you you
know lead your dog and and be in charge but yeah
in this case you have to find a balance exactly
because every dog is different and every little
condition is going to be different right so in
a dog that is showing this um this lack of confidence
on their own four paws. Now we want to, we want
to build that reassurance in them and their thought
processes. Yeah. At least initially more than
we build it just in us. Otherwise the dog just
develops even more separation, frustration and
or anxiety. Yeah. And I mean, we might mean well,
but. A lot of times when it comes down to like
that excessive reassurance, the number one phrase
we hear owners say to their dogs is it's okay.
Yeah. It's all right. It's okay. You're okay.
But that dog doesn't know what that means. And
you're giving tone and body language and emotion.
That that dog can kind of feel and they're like,
well, this seems off. Why are you telling me
it's okay? You don't normally do that. Right.
When nothing is happening, you don't come over
here and go, it's okay. It's okay. It's okay.
So obviously something is off. Yeah. The other
problem with that is that if, let's say the dog
does understand what you're saying and you're
saying it's okay. Yep. What is the dog targeting
as the source of what is okay? Right. Yeah. What
are they engaged in? Right. And so a lot of times
when the dog is in their like stressed state,
you're telling them that what they're thinking,
the way that they're thinking, the way their
brain is racing, the way that whatever it is
that they're scared of, you're telling them that
that and their reaction to that is okay. Yeah.
Basically reinforcing. Right. Whatever the emotion
is. Correct. So we're going to talk about what
we do for that in the next little section here,
but we're going to frame this out. The next thing
is constant following. I can't read what I wrote
on that one. Constant following prevents independence.
So when the dog just follows you around everywhere
you go. And every time you go into another room,
they come with you. Owners and humans, we look
at that and we're like, oh, they love me. This
is so good. Right. They just, they always just
want to be close to me. And I agree. They do
love you. There's nothing wrong with that. But.
what is actually going on underneath the hood
right you open it up and you're like oh look
at this mess yeah because that dog and it's not
all dogs it's not just because the dog walks
around with you they have separation anxiety
or frustration that's not what i'm saying but
the subject of the of today's podcast is on those
dogs right and that's how it can start correct
so for these specific dogs When they are following
you around, they never get the chance to just
be by themselves, but you still be in the other
room where they like, okay, you're home, but
I'm not attached to you. Caesar Milan recommends
a reference point in this super. super funny
video if you ever look it up all of his videos
are funny i swear we watch that sometimes just
so we can like i love it but a lot of people
have watched a lot of that right and it makes
reached a lot of people so i like using those
examples right it's a reference point um so the
basically taking the dog and i'm jumping ahead
to the solutions here but what we're going to
talk about is We want to take a dog and put them
in a point and then slowly move further and further
away from them while they're still in that same
spot. And then we can show them through repetition
that, oh, I got farther away and then I came
back. Yeah, that's like our threshold. And I
got farther away and then I came back. Right.
And we're going to talk about that whole process.
But the concept of a dog not... adhering to a
reference point, not knowing how to be on place,
not accepting being put in their crate. Having
to be attached to you, that Velcro dog syndrome,
that builds all of these processes. Yeah. What
is it in Monsters, Inc.? Code 19. Code 19. I
don't think that's the number, but I can never
remember. 23. 2319. 2319. That's right. There
we go. Okay. Then the next thing is when we take
a dog that has separation anxiety and we're not
making a move on vets here, but a surgeon is
paid to do surgery. A doctor typically wants
to prescribe medication. A dog trainer wants
to do training. A vet wants to give some medicine.
They are medication based. And this day and age,
vets are very, very, very much medication based.
So you take a dog. Oh, he's got separation anxiety.
Well, does he? Who diagnosed that? Right. The
vet just has to go based off of what you're saying.
Right. They don't get a chance and they're way
too busy to like sit down and like go through
a whole. you know, interview and figure out exactly
what's going on. Yeah. I wish we could. I also
wish I and I guess I've never like researched
it before is like finding a holistic vet. You
know, they have like holistic. Yeah, they exist.
I don't know of any around here. But so where
I'm going with this is we take a dog to a vet
because they're having a problem. And the vet
is oftentimes your first like ally in, you know,
working. with your dog to work through issues
um especially if the dog has done something crazy
now the vet's like all right well let's put them
on trazodone let's put them on right um yeah
dog version of prozac um the where we're going
with this is that medication then is in the mix
It changes hormone balance. It masks the symptoms.
And it puts you in a position where, how are
you ever going to work through it? Because you
have squashed it down. Now, if that works for
you, then that works for you. That's fine. Also,
if it's a temporary solution to get you past
something, then yeah. Right. But at some point,
we've got to confront the monster. Right. When
your dog is on medication, especially some of
the hard hitting medication that does completely
shut down or change drives hormones and nervous
system thought process. Your your hill that you're
trying to get to the top of gets larger. Yeah.
Yep. OK. And then I want to talk about the one
that you skipped. Also, emotional departures
raise arousal. So with that, it's. When you think
about a dog that has separation anxiety and you
go to put your shoes on and your dog automatically
already starts panting and pacing and whining,
you get your keys and it gets louder and more
intense or you start getting upset. And if your
dog starts portraying those, like it may emotionally
like dysregulate you, which then emotionally
dysregulates your dog. And so then it's like
this whole effect thing. We have seen people
before do this and it's like, cool, they will
say something to the dog or they'll start talking
to the dog and they're like, I'll be right back,
buddy. And they start like petting them and doing
all of these things. Imagine if you dropped your
kid off at kindergarten on their first day and
you started crying and you were like hugging
them and didn't want to like let go. the emotional
state of that child is now going to match your
emotional state. If they were fine when you got
out of the car, but you started getting upset,
well, they're like, well, my mom's upset. I should
probably be upset too. Why is she upset? I don't
know, but now we're both upset. That's how you
have to look at it when you have a dog that's
like, well, don't leave me. I want to go with
you. I have seen people that have let the dog
like control their lives because they lived in
an apartment or in a townhome and if they left
their dog barked to the point where like their
landlord was like if you don't fix it like you
have to move um and so they would have someone
hired to come over to their apartment or it would
think it was a townhome um come over to her townhome
like every day and spend the day with her dog
like spend the day not just like drop -ins to
let them out to go to the bathroom it's like
because the dog could not be alone why why would
they not go with a crate i think at one point
it was a wire crate they had a bad experience
and they like nixed crates completely and then
it became an instance where they got a crate
The dog would get so crazy when she went to go
put him in the crate that he would injure himself
or her in the process because he knew that that
was the signal that she was going to leave him
alone. She ended up having to take him to the
gym with her. She took that dog everywhere because
she felt as though she could not leave him. And
it got really extensive. She eventually got extensive
training for him, but it took a long time to
even convince her to get help for that dog. And
it was like, that dog is not mentally healthy.
That dog doesn't want to feel that way and shouldn't
have to feel that way. And this is where the
whole conversation, it does get emotional because
no one wants... No one that I've ever talked
to, no one calls a professional dog trainer and
then is like, yeah, I really don't care about
my dog, so I want to pay for training. That's
not real. So everyone that we talk to always
loves their dog. By the time they've reached
out to me, they're seeking out a dog trainer.
They've already passed a few steps. They've tried
some things. They've tried some things and they
really care about their dog. So there's no part
of this that we're like, ah, these owners, blah,
blah, blah. Everyone that we work with loves
and cares about their dog. Yeah. But we have
to understand that the love and affection can't
rule that relationship. Right. When people end
up reaching out to us as they're like. final
resort or, you know, their next step that they
feel like they need to take. It typically comes
down to they love their dog so much that they
can't show them tough love. And that's what the
dog needs in order to feel like they can function
in everyday life. Right. And tough love is also
just renamed like, you know, calm. Right. Rock
solid leadership. Yeah. You know what is good
for your dog. Yeah. More than they do. Yep. Absolutely.
And so even though they are short -sighted and
they can't see it. It could be right in front
of their face, but they can't see it. You have
to guide them through that door. Right, because
if your dog looked at a chocolate bar and was
like, I'm going to eat that, for sure you're
going to stop them because you know that it's
not good for them. Right, grapes. Toxic to dogs.
You're not supposed to have grapes. And you will
tell them no for that. They love grapes. But
if your dogs don't love grapes. They love anything
that they can eat most of the time. I got a call
about all the grapes that this dog ate. And it
was like, what do I do? There was something wrong
with that dog. All right. Back on track. Continue.
I don't actually know what I was about to say
now. It went away that quick. Oh, the chocolate
bar. You're going to tell them no for that, right?
Because you understand that it's unhealthy. But
what I want people to start, like, picking up
on, and I always, like, play, like, the brain
games with the dogs and stuff and, like, deal
with, like, the crazy behavior because that's
what I like is I like to see a dog, like, go
from being so, like, mentally unhealthy to being
like, oh, my gosh, I'm alive and the sun is shining
and everything is okay today. And there's a...
there's a huge impact that you can make on a
dog, but nobody looks at a dog that's stressed
and thinks that they're mentally like suffering
or, or in mental crisis. Right. But we will look
at a human who's like laying in bed all day or
has a problem regulating themselves. And it's
like, Oh, well they have like mental health,
like issues. So to dogs, like it's, it's different
for sure. It's, certainly not the same thing
and doesn't have all the medications that humans
have for whatever their brain things are but
we're not doctors we don't know yeah i'm not
a doctor i have no idea i don't know yeah but
i i still want people to look at dogs and and
know that the tough love training side that we
come from is because we want to see dogs that
are mentally healthy yeah We want dogs to feel
safe and secure and okay with their lives and
not have to be stressed or scared or worried
and all of those things. Yeah, 100%. All right.
So at this point, I want to open it up. If anybody
wants to jump in with a story or something to
add on this whole subject, I'll give it just
a minute. But it'd be great to hear some. other
angles of it. I'm sure that we've left out or
missed some little things, but that's where sometimes
people fill in the gaps for us. And if not, no
problem. We can, we can drive right along. Let's
give it another second here. All right. I will
throw it in the chat window. If you think of
something that you want to contribute. And we
will drive forward with here's the meat and potatoes.
This is what we're going to. Hold on a second.
OK, cool. All right. The meat and potatoes of
tonight is how do we fix this? What do we do
about it? So. The overarching solution here.
It's going to sound so basic, though. No one
wants to hear this. Nobody wants to hear it.
Just turn it off. Turn the podcast off. Dogs.
Your dog has to learn how to be calm by themselves.
By themselves. Right. And now how do we do that
is the million dollar question. And that's usually
why people end up reaching out to dog trainers.
The answer to the question is they learn calmness
by being alone. Yep. And then we just modify
it and we change it and we add duration and distance
and some distraction and we build impulse control
and all of these things so that then the dog
can be alone. Yeah. And that's literally the
solution. Yeah, because the number one thing
you could do when you bring a dog home is put
their kennel space somewhere with a little bit
of distance from you. Yeah. Because that automatically
just teaches them right from the get -go. It's
like, hey, cool. We have time together, but then
we have time apart. Yeah. And we see a lot of
times with multi -dog households that people
got the other dog so that the other dog wouldn't
be alone. Yeah. It was like, well. yeah there's
we are right we supported right most a lot of
people get the second dog so that their first
dog doesn't have to exhibit separation frustration
or two at the same time they get two together
and they're like well we wanted two so that they
can stay together right so they can stay together
yeah right and there's other things that come
up we've talked about those in some other episodes
but when you get two dogs so that they can play
together and then you put them together 24 -7,
and they live outside together in an outside
yard or an area or whatever, what are the odds
that they're going to listen to you when you
want them to do something? You're like the least
exciting thing. Everything that the dogs do is
way more fun, way more exciting. They speak the
same language. Because they make the rules. They
make the rules. They do what they want during
the day. And so you've created a totally different
issue. That's not the one we're talking about,
though, so I'll get back on track. Okay. The
separation part. When you are kenneling a dog
with another dog in the house, we highly recommend
that you separate them. Yeah. It doesn't have
to be forever, right? Depending on your house,
you might not have that room where you're like,
oh, cool, I can just put a dog in this room and
a dog in that room. That might not work for you.
I get it. But put something between them. Yeah.
You know, put some piece of furniture, put one
on one side of the couch, one on the other. Yep.
Whatever it is that you do, you want to create
some distance because that's going to help you
out in the long run. All right. So then the next
step here, we want to teach short structured
absences starting in the same room. If it's that
bad. Yeah. We start really small, like place
in the same room. Place is awesome for teaching
impulse control and teaching and reversing this
separation, anxiousness and frustration. To go
back to the Cesar Millan thing, the reference
point. It's place. It's place. Imagine you put
a place bed, though, to explain what this is
and how you can use it, apply it to your house.
It's really, it's a useful concept. You want
to make the place bed the center, the epicenter
of that room. And then you're going to draw imaginary
lines. around the place, but getting further
and further. Yeah. Just like a target. If you
were looking at it from the top and they're imaginary,
don't, don't, don't draw. So the, um, we draw
these lines a little bit bigger, a little bit
bigger, a little bit bigger. Now what we do is
we start on the interior line and we start trying
to cross that line. And as your dog stays on
their place, we reward them. And then you can
go to the next line. And as their dog stays on
their place, we can increase our distance, our
distraction and our duration. Those are the three
ways that we proof place. And in proofing place,
we increase the ability for the dog to go. I
didn't die. My mom and my dad, they went over
there and then they came back for me and they
were really excited. That I did this. Now we
reinforce that. Yeah. Okay. So then you go further
and further and further and further until eventually
you can go to the front door and back. You can
go outside and then back. And then we start.
You know, closing a door and then we count to
three and then we open the door and we go back
in and then we go outside and we count to five.
The biggest mistake that we usually make here
is that we get like five steps away and then
we're like, wow, they're doing so good. Let me
walk into the other room. Yeah. That's like you
went too hard, too fast. And then your dog breaks.
And now you have in for or reinforced a bad habit
instead of a good one. Yeah. Dogs are pattern
based. So the more that we enforce the good habits,
the less bad ones we'll have to deal with because
they'll die out naturally. Right. And eventually
like you test your dog, right? And teach them
the difference between staying and not staying.
But in the very beginning, the more successful
that you set the dog up for, or the more success
that you set the dog up for, the faster that
they're going to learn. Yeah. So. Using that
same concept, but using plates, place beds, crates,
or just defined areas like the mantle of a fireplace
or the couch or a rug or a carpet square. All
of those things have definitive borders and you
can hold your dog accountable to stay on them.
then you slowly build that duration, distance,
and distraction in, and you slowly get further
and further away through those concentric circles.
Yep. All right. Next, we start building calm
routines. Your dog is very, very good at picking
up on routines. Right. That's why when you put
your shoes on and pick up your keys, they're
already like... So we find those routines that
we've already accidentally built excitement and
anxiety in, and we start repeating them, but
with calmness, in slow motion, with relaxation
being the theme. And then we start building in
some more duration in between the event that
is spiking their... anxiety or their frustration
yeah and the actual event that ends up taking
place for example i pick up my keys and then
i go to the door and i leave so now when i and
the dog knows this so now when i pick up my keys
they go crazy yep well so now i need to very
calmly go pick up my keys and then very calmly
go sit back down yeah and then very calmly go
put my keys back And then go pet the dog. Yeah.
And then do this over and over and over and vary
it and modify it and change it until the keys
are no longer a factor for ramping the dog up.
Right. And the amount of time that that's going
to take is going to depend on the dog and how
like locked in they really are on your patterns
because. I was talking to a friend about this
today, and they're having a problem with their
dog invading their space when they go to pet
their second dog now. And she's like, well, I
put my dog down off the couch when she does that,
but she's still doing it. And I was like, right,
well, how long has it been? And it's like, well,
like a week. Right, that's not really long enough,
because guaranteed she only does it maybe like
once a day. Yeah. not multiple times the repetitions
matter yeah and so it doesn't matter how long
it is it could be a year well we did it for a
year right it's like well how many times did
it happen that year well three right okay well
also if you're doing it sometimes but not other
times that's going to break that pattern down
correct and so what we also come into is We talk
about the rules of threes with dogs and this
is what I told her. I was like, you remember
the rules of three? I told you three days, three
weeks, three months. And she's like, oh yeah,
that three month rule, that kicks hard. Right,
it does. It's real. And I think the dogs have
calendars in their kennels and they're like,
I'm going to count it down. But when you're looking
at changing a behavior and a pattern, give it
three weeks. Don't do something for a week. and
think that the dog's going to pick up on it will
they maybe yeah it depends on what you do and
how you do it with the dog but when you're looking
at really changing a like structured behavior
you have to be really you know insistent on how
consistent you are when you are breaking those
patterns down on a dog because they can build
them up really strong yeah yeah Physical and
mental needs. Yep, meeting physical and mental
needs is next. So if you have a dog that's a
high drive dog and like you've done nothing all
day but be aloof with them and be like, oh, we're
going to cuddle on the couch and then I have
to leave and go to work. And your dog has a high
drive, that dog's immediately going to have a
hard time, right? And so if they're based towards
separation anxiety, not every high drive dog.
Um, we can put our high drive dogs in a kennel
and they're like, oh, okay, cool. I'm going to
relax. But, but that only came from doing that.
Right. Over and over and over and over and over.
Dexter's literally done it since he was two.
And he still sometimes is like, oh, because he
has like severe FOMO of like, well, I want to
go out and play. It's not because he's anxious
that we're literally like leaving. He's just
like, well, I, I want to go. I want to bite something.
Yeah. I want to go. I want to, I want to play.
But if you don't meet physical and mental needs
of a dog and then you put them in confinement,
they're obviously going to have some of that
anxiety and that frustration more drawn out.
Yeah. And I'll lead into one of Bree's favorite
questions in an evaluation is, well, what do
you know about this breed and why did you choose
them, right? Because they every dog is genetically
predisposed to wanting and needing certain things.
Yeah. If you have a little Australian Shepherd.
Yeah. And you're crazy. And you're like, well,
yeah, I just want her to live on the couch with
me because I that's what I do. You know, I'm
I just. I sit on the couch. I work from home.
I don't go anywhere. I don't do anything. You
got the wrong dog. Yeah, you got the wrong dog.
Because and then it's cute. Right. And then we
get the well, when guests come over and kids
come over and there's other dogs or whatever,
it runs around and it hops up and it's nipping
at things. Right. Well, it's doing all the things
that it's programmed to do. Right. Right. So
you've got the mental and physical needs that
we're talking about is specific to your dog.
What do they find satisfying and fulfilling to
do? And we need to let them do some of that.
Yeah. And if you let them do that immediately
before you leave, you'll have a better time.
Yeah, for sure. You'll also just meet the dog's
needs. So then that. act the the physical level
of frustration in the dog will automatically
go down yeah now you might not even notice some
of the other like symptoms yeah um or you might
right every dog is different so i'm not treating
any of these as like the silver bullet you just
do this and it's fixed yeah this is just the
process these are the steps The last one, I've
talked about it a couple of times, but we need
to increase the duration of anything that we're
using, everything that we're doing here, but
especially time in the crate. Yep. Separation
anxious and separation frustrated dogs. Almost
always. I don't want to say always. On a podcast
that anybody could listen to. But the concept
is that almost always these dogs, they do better
when you give them firm, definitive structure.
And a crate isolates them and forces them to
be by themselves. Which is not anything that
anybody loves to do. I totally understand. But
it's very often the right thing to do to guide
your dog and to lead your dog to a better life
overall. Yeah. So with that, I'm going to open
it up for questions before we get to listener
projects. So the line is open and I think. I
have our non -copyrighted Jeopardy music queued
up and ready to go. So if you've got a question,
now is your time. And then we'll move on to listener
projects. All right. Listener project number
one, independent sessions. So settle the dog
down on place or in a crate, reward the calm
behavior, and then just start practicing increasing
the distance a little bit further, a little bit
further, a little bit further until you can walk
outside, maybe with the door open and you continue
to use those continuation markers. that we've
talked about before, you probably didn't get
this far without knowing what marker words are.
But if you did, go back to, I think it's maybe
like episode three, I think we talked about marker
words. But reward your dog for spending time
away from you. That's the concept. Reward and
praise your dog for spending time away from you.
is important. All right. Number two, calm departure
routine. We want to remove the emotional craziness
from you leaving. You have to be strong for your
dog and you have to show the dog through your
body language, which is far and above what your
dog will listen to over your words and over just
random happenstance. your uh how you carry yourself
with your body language is going to be very important
so this is the time to suck it up buttercup and
we remove that emotional ritual from leaving
leave and return neutrally yep and if your dog's
not in a crate you don't put them in a crate
and you just let them roam around okay cool then
practice leaving Yeah. Practice leaving through
the door without them rushing the door, without
them freaking out. By the time that you go in
and out of that house 50 times, one, you'll be
ready for lunch. And two, your dog will probably
just go lay down because they're like, my mom
and dad have lost their minds. I don't know what
they're doing, but I'm going to go lay down because
this is weird. That is a step in the right direction.
Yep. And then you just reinforce it. Track your
progress also. Yeah, that's important. This is
really important. So we are building an app that
is, I kind of announced it last week. My target
is to release it for everybody on May 1st. But
this app is built around a journal and logging
feature. The whole thing is based on that. It
uses AI and uses a bunch of, there's like courses
and things and instruction that, you know, you
can access. It's totally free. There's, you know,
premium options for sure, but like everything's
free and you can use it. All the logging features
and the journal features are completely free
because I don't think that people use the journal
or use a journal enough. Yeah. It's 2026. Everybody's
got a phone on them. If I can make an app that
you literally can just pull out and click like
three buttons and log like, hey, this went well
or this went well or this didn't go well. My
dog had an accident. My dog had an anxious behavior.
My dog had this. My dog had that. If we can make
it easy, hopefully dog owners will do it more.
Yeah. Because keeping a log of your progress
is super, super important. With that, I will
close it out. You got anything else? No, that
was a good one. All right. Well, with that, I
will basically bid you good night. Thank you
for everybody that has tuned in. Thanks, guys,
for being on the call. We will have this episode
should go live next Monday. So where's that?
I'm real bad at the dates. Like four days. Yeah.
If you are listening to this, you found this
podcast and it helped you, give us a rating.
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comment. Let us know how we're doing. I'm always
trying to get better. Thanks, guys. Have a good
night. Good night.