WEBVTT

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Welcome to Pawprint Academy, your blueprint to

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raising better dogs. My name is Ryan, and I'll

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be your host for this journey. I've got my trusty

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co -host here, Brianna. Hello. And together,

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we're bringing you real -world training insights

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built on leadership, structure, and proven methods.

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We record this podcast with live clients on the

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line in one take with live, unscripted questions

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and answers. At the end of the day, this podcast

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is a lot more than just teaching your dog to

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sit or stay. creating calmness, and becoming

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the kind of leader your dog truly needs. We do

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that with our three pillar method of trust, obey,

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and perform. Together, we'll show you how these

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three pillars shape every step of training. Thanks

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for being here. Let's get started. Episode 22,

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Countersurfing and Food Stealing. It's going

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to be great. Yeah. Stopping the habit at its

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source. So, unmuting that one. All right, we'll

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try this. So, today we are talking about countersurfing

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and the age old, the dog ate the steak. and ran

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off with it right as you're getting ready to

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go out for a grilling extravaganza and the the

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dog runs off with your food and you're like oh

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here we go i've even seen the ones where they

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eat the steak and they like turn around and they're

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like where did it go and the dog's already gone

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right it's already swallowed it too so i don't

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know not gonna not getting that one back um so

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the ah i was this this week has been crazy and

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so i i have no crazy statistics or crazy announcements

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for you tonight we're gonna jump right into it

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uh i do have the uh for the people that are dialed

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in and um joined on the zoom call i've got the

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chat window open so if you have questions throughout

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the time if there's something that's popped up

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but you don't want to like interrupt just go

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ahead and throw something into the chat and I'll

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try to answer it on the fly and then if I think

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on the we're going to open it up for questions

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and story time somewhere in the middle of this

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this one can in the right frame of mind can be

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a funny subject matter right if you're past every

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right yeah and not at the moment right but afterwards

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uh everybody's got a good story of when they

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turned around and their dog made out with their

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uh yeah with the steak yep all of those stories

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or the i don't know the burgers or whatever tacos

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yeah anything i'm out of here um for sure uh

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would be one of our dogs um But then not the

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other. But here we go. Yeah, go ahead and shake

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your head at me. You want to get started. Countersurfing

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and food stealing are a learned behavior. But

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it's one of those behaviors that gets reinforced

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instantaneously, real quick, because it's self

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-rewarding. So it's driven by opportunity. it

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has one of those immediate payoffs. So as soon

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as the dog does it once, they're like, oh, that

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was awesome. I'm for sure going to wait to do

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that again. So dogs steal food because it works.

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And ending the behavior requires both removal

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of the reinforcement event as well as controlling

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access and then teaching kind of those calm alternatives

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instead of relying on. Like a late correction,

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which is usually yelling and screaming at the

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dog as it runs off with your steak. Right. Because

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you don't usually catch them in the moment. And

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sometimes you're even later than that. Right.

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Because if you did, if you did, you probably

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would have just put your hand out and like prevented

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it from happening. Right. That's usually the

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problem is that you're you're not fast enough.

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Yeah. Usually there's too much distance involved

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there. Right. So let's we'll jump right into

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it. um will you jump right into it i'm trying

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to fix this chat window here yeah so um our major

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point number one is going to be why dogs counter

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surf and steal food which we've already kind

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of gone over right it's shaped by success and

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repetition so most of the time when you have

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a dog that ends up stealing something off the

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counter the very first time they pretty much

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learn immediately that they can keep doing it

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it's not that difficult and And there's a lot

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of cool stuff up there on the counter that they

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can't see all the time. Dogs that jump immediately

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kind of go to jumping on the counter. And so

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some of those things. And that's a learned behavior

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too, by the way. Yeah. Like just to call it what

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it is. Right. Dogs don't learn to stand on their

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rear paws just by themselves just because they

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balanced on it and it was cool. Right. They learned

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it because of something. Yeah. And that was either

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to get access to pets and hands and get closer

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to a person when they first started jumping or.

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to climb or to try to get closer to something

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that they wanted. Right. And when it comes to

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counter surfing specifically, like dogs are naturally

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like scavengers, right? They're born to just

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hunt and find their food. And so with that comes

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like a strong food motivation. That's why when

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we work with dogs, we always tell people. Cool.

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We are going to use treats and food primarily

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to teach behaviors because it's the number one

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way that dogs learn. Now, there's some dogs out

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there that aren't really food motivated. You

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guys probably aren't going to have a problem

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with counter serving unless you keep their toys

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or something that they really enjoy up there.

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They watch you put it up there. Right. And it's

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like, oh, I see where it is. I'm going to get

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that. So I would. But I want to also. Bring attention

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to the other side of counter surfing, which is

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it's not all about food. Right. Right. It's about

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whatever they find valuable. So you're right.

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So what you're talking about is a dog who's not

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food motivated. They might not steal your food,

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but a dog that finds something of value. Maybe

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they they find a they they see a pill bottle

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or something that you that they see you interact

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with on a daily basis. They have already determined

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because they've seen it over and over. They've

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determined that that thing is valuable. And then

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maybe they determine that if they were to take

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ownership of that thing, you would be very interested.

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Right. And so they do it out of engagement. Yep.

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That is another another big one for why dogs

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do it for sure. Because if you raise a big scene

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because your dog stole something off the counter,

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then they're like, well, that was kind of exciting.

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Yeah. So we've had a client deal with this with

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eyeglasses where the dog, it wasn't really counter

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surfing, but it was, it was couch surfing. It

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was side table surfing. The dog would even jump

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up on like the mantle of the fireplace. And it

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was a little, a little dog and would be able

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to jump up there in order to get it because it

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would immediately incite violence, a riot in

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the, in the house. And it was like, ah, you get

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back here. And, And that was fun. Yeah. That

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was really exciting. And so moving on to that,

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it's like inconsistent management a lot of the

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times teaches the dog that they can steal when

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you're not around because then there's basically

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no punishment. And if there is, it's so delayed

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that they're not connecting the punishment of

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whatever you're doing, yelling, telling them

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to get in their crate, kennel, whatever. to them

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stealing off the counter it's the same way that

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we talk about if your dog has an accident inside

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while you're gone and you come back and punish

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them for it by yelling at them putting them in

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their crate whatever it is the dog's not relating

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that punishment to them going to the bathroom

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on the floor an hour ago or whatever it was and

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dogs are naturally going to find and identify

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easy access points whether that's food or toys

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or whatever it is Whatever is easy. I mean, it's

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just like in the mammals, like second nature

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is to be lazy. Right. And every time they get

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it, they win. This is fun. This is easy. Right.

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It's easy access and it's very rewarding. Yeah.

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Just like barking when we talk about barking.

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Through multiple things. Through multiple pathways,

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I guess, is what I'm trying to draw attention

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to. It's not just rewarding to the dog because

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they got something. cool or potentially tasty

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they also got a huge reaction out of you right

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and the more that you build that value in you

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the more they get your attention the better in

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their mind Yeah. So that self -rewarding, just

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like we talk about with barking and things like

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that, instantly kind of strengthens and creates

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that habit for the long term. So then you kind

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of have some backpedaling to do as soon as the

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first instance sort of happens. Which brings

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us to major point number two. How? Right. Yeah.

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About how corrections don't. Corrections. Corrections

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are usually late in this frame. And they don't

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really fix the problem because they're just following.

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You're just in a reactionary frame of mind. Right,

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because inevitably the dog learns to do it all

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the time when you're not around. Because if you

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are going to punish the dog right then and there,

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then they're going to learn to do it if they

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can. when you're just not there and so then it

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becomes this sneaky thing where it's like well

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I only took my eyes off of them for two seconds

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and they ran in there or well I was you know

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in the bathroom and they went into the kitchen

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and I just like I can't have them next to me

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all the time right and that's where it comes

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down to cool but we always advocate for if you're

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if you can't keep your eyes on your dog they've

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got to be somewhere you need a management strategy

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yeah Yeah. And a management strategy. So I don't

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want to jump ahead too much. Let's still frame

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the problem. But a management strategy is going

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to help you avoid that whole process. Yeah, absolutely.

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So we've kind of determined and just by this

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layout, we're kind of cruising through this.

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But most corrections. Pretty much everyone who's

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dealing with this issue before they really get

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involved and treat it as a dog training issue.

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They're almost always just chasing the problem.

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Oh, yeah. Absolutely. And it's just it's a very

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natural thing to chase your steak as it exits

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the house. And I think a lot of times people

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sometimes I say sometimes I feel like a lot of

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the times. Owners fix it themselves by just going,

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well, I'm just never going to leave anything

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out on the counter. Right. That is a management

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strategy. That's the management strategy that

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most people go with. But then every once in a

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while they go, oh, dang it. I left that out and

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they destroyed it. I did that. And then it's

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like they put it on themselves, which to be fair,

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like, cool. If you want your dog to like free

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roam and do all the things and you're going to

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take responsibility for every now and then for

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getting something and your dog takes advantage

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of it. then cool like i i have no problem with

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it if you have no problem with it that's where

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we always come down to like your house is your

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house and your dog is your dog and you get to

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treat it however you want right but if it becomes

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a problem where you're like i need this fixed

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then there's several strategies that we can kind

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of go with right and Other than putting all your

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stuff away. Right. And the more that you make

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it a negative situation for the dog, the more

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that the dog kind of adapts to stealing the things

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quietly and secretively. Right. And then it's

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even harder. And they get faster because they

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learn. Right. That's where they're vacuuming

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the whole steak down and they don't even like

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chew it. And it's like, oh my goodness. That's

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also a learned behavior. Yeah. Is because most

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dogs would like. go and take it into the corner

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and then kind of chew on it and like work through

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it. The, the dogs that like gulp it down real

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fast. They know they're about to get it taken.

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They're like, I'm not supposed to have this.

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I gotta eat it. I gotta eat it now. Hurry. So

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true. Yeah. Um, the, what was I going to say?

00:14:06.720 --> 00:14:10.320
Um, right. Hold on. Who even knows? Who even

00:14:10.320 --> 00:14:14.080
knows? When it comes back down to, we talk about

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the yelling and getting upset at your dog, right?

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And that just drawing attention back to it. Because

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we always say negative attention is still attention

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to a dog. And at no point does it matter whether

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you're upset or not. The dog thinks that it's

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fun and exciting and that they got your attention

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somehow. Yeah. Whether they wanted the item off

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the counter or not. Yeah. yeah and it just puts

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you at odds with your dog yeah and your dog is

00:14:43.500 --> 00:14:50.720
like i'm gonna be sneaky yeah and then unfortunately

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you get the the the next version of owners that

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are like oh it's they're being sneaky about it

00:14:57.740 --> 00:15:01.620
oh it's cute oh it's funny oh it's this oh it's

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that and then that just continues to to ramp

00:15:04.200 --> 00:15:10.659
up yeah Okay, so we talked about yelling. The

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next one to talk about is inconsistency, right,

00:15:14.639 --> 00:15:19.399
with our consequences. Sometimes we, you know,

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this is where it kind of goes into what I was

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just talking about, where there's sometimes when

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people, like, laugh about it. Some people are

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like, oh, my gosh, that's, they. They came out

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of nowhere or they did something and it was like

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cute. It was funny. Well, now there's a time

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or two that is happening and the dog's not getting

00:15:45.059 --> 00:15:47.559
corrected for it or the dog's not getting the

00:15:47.559 --> 00:15:51.679
same negative reinforcement. And it only takes

00:15:51.679 --> 00:15:55.700
an inch to then want to squeeze it out a mile.

00:15:55.840 --> 00:15:58.820
Yeah. And then the dog's like, this is inconsistent.

00:15:58.980 --> 00:16:01.340
I'm going to keep doing this. Right, because

00:16:01.340 --> 00:16:02.879
if sometimes you get upset and you put them in

00:16:02.879 --> 00:16:05.720
their kennel, or sometimes you get upset and,

00:16:05.799 --> 00:16:08.860
I don't know, just yell at them, or the next

00:16:08.860 --> 00:16:12.000
time you just don't do anything because whatever

00:16:12.000 --> 00:16:15.659
they got into wasn't important, then you're just

00:16:15.659 --> 00:16:18.460
telling the dog, like, yeah, it's okay. Oh, nope,

00:16:18.539 --> 00:16:20.419
it's not okay. And the dog doesn't understand

00:16:20.419 --> 00:16:23.019
whether the item they stole is okay or not okay,

00:16:23.200 --> 00:16:25.639
or whether them jumping up on the counter was

00:16:25.639 --> 00:16:28.580
okay or not okay. So there's always the differences

00:16:28.580 --> 00:16:40.240
of that as well. And then the punishment is,

00:16:40.860 --> 00:16:46.820
I'm trying to think of how I can say it. So punishment

00:16:46.820 --> 00:16:50.299
can, we can go down a couple of different roads

00:16:50.299 --> 00:16:55.700
with punishment, but the congruency behind punishment

00:16:55.700 --> 00:16:59.230
is really, really important. I don't think that

00:16:59.230 --> 00:17:04.029
you can ethically punish your dog inconsistently.

00:17:04.670 --> 00:17:07.630
And so I was trying to think of how I can say

00:17:07.630 --> 00:17:13.990
that. Punishing your dog by yelling at them in

00:17:13.990 --> 00:17:16.529
this instance and then by throwing something

00:17:16.529 --> 00:17:20.230
at them in this instance and then by grabbing

00:17:20.230 --> 00:17:22.809
them and trying to wrestle things out of their

00:17:22.809 --> 00:17:28.210
mouth in this instance creates confusion. It's

00:17:28.210 --> 00:17:30.849
not consistent and it doesn't create clear communication.

00:17:31.130 --> 00:17:34.170
And so what we want to do is we want to really

00:17:34.170 --> 00:17:40.349
create some significant management that can lead

00:17:40.349 --> 00:17:46.109
to clear communication and defined consequence.

00:17:46.890 --> 00:17:49.170
Right, and setting your dog up for success. Because

00:17:49.170 --> 00:17:50.710
if you're just going to let your dog free roam

00:17:50.710 --> 00:17:52.890
and leave a steak on the counter and think that

00:17:52.890 --> 00:17:54.690
your dog's just going to have the self -control.

00:17:55.519 --> 00:17:57.619
To be like, no, no, I'm not supposed to eat that.

00:17:57.680 --> 00:18:01.240
They don't think that way. They're not in any

00:18:01.240 --> 00:18:04.839
way, shape, or form going, I don't actually want

00:18:04.839 --> 00:18:06.960
that steak on the counter. It's fine. I don't

00:18:06.960 --> 00:18:12.500
need that. I don't want it. Right. Yeah, it's

00:18:12.500 --> 00:18:16.460
a losing strategy to set your dog up with some

00:18:16.460 --> 00:18:20.119
of the most exciting or most rewarding things

00:18:20.119 --> 00:18:23.900
that they could have in their mind and then be

00:18:23.900 --> 00:18:27.119
like, I'm fine. We're going to train for you

00:18:27.119 --> 00:18:31.700
to not choose those things. That usually loses.

00:18:32.319 --> 00:18:40.279
Yeah. So we'll jump into management here in just

00:18:40.279 --> 00:18:43.220
a second. What I want to do is I want to just

00:18:43.220 --> 00:18:46.859
take a moment and open it up for anybody who

00:18:46.859 --> 00:18:52.859
has had a experience like that. What types of,

00:18:52.859 --> 00:18:57.279
so we've talked about food. We talked about toys.

00:18:57.480 --> 00:19:00.819
We talked about the eyeglasses or just other

00:19:00.819 --> 00:19:05.359
things that people have found are not people,

00:19:05.460 --> 00:19:09.059
but dogs have found important. What are some

00:19:09.059 --> 00:19:14.859
things that any of you listening have dealt with?

00:19:15.519 --> 00:19:19.019
Does anybody want to share? Hey, this is Jenny

00:19:19.019 --> 00:19:22.970
with cash. Hey, Jenny. Hey, Jenny. Hey. We're

00:19:22.970 --> 00:19:25.210
struggling with toilet paper, whether it's on

00:19:25.210 --> 00:19:28.910
the roll, in the toilet, on a counter, in a basket,

00:19:29.150 --> 00:19:32.869
a trash can. He just seems to really love toilet

00:19:32.869 --> 00:19:34.910
paper, used or clean, whether we're using it

00:19:34.910 --> 00:19:37.970
to blow our nose or just, and I'm pretty sure

00:19:37.970 --> 00:19:39.569
you can hear him in his crate right now, but

00:19:39.569 --> 00:19:43.250
we're really struggling on toilet paper. Okay.

00:19:44.839 --> 00:19:47.680
And that's just something that he like steals

00:19:47.680 --> 00:19:51.180
and helps himself to around the house. Yeah,

00:19:51.299 --> 00:19:54.059
he eats it. He takes it in the backyard. We've

00:19:54.059 --> 00:19:56.000
tried the treat, you know, trying to find something

00:19:56.000 --> 00:19:58.799
with a higher value. But whether it's clean or

00:19:58.799 --> 00:20:01.880
used for makeup wipe off for the kids, he just

00:20:01.880 --> 00:20:04.059
loves it. Right, because at that point you're

00:20:04.059 --> 00:20:05.400
trying to trade him and he's like, well, no,

00:20:05.420 --> 00:20:07.839
no, what I have must be valuable. It's way better.

00:20:08.000 --> 00:20:10.119
And it's just Charmin. It's not like it's anything

00:20:10.119 --> 00:20:17.849
with fragrance. Nice. Sorry. We found tampons,

00:20:17.890 --> 00:20:20.809
kitchen utensils. Yeah. The randomness thing

00:20:20.809 --> 00:20:23.869
is he never takes our food off the counter. It

00:20:23.869 --> 00:20:27.730
is like one time he did, but really it's more

00:20:27.730 --> 00:20:31.589
paper products. Okay. Interesting. We thought

00:20:31.589 --> 00:20:33.309
that was pretty interesting because we do like

00:20:33.309 --> 00:20:35.509
a lot of ground beef and chickens and dinners

00:20:35.509 --> 00:20:39.920
and stuff. No issue. But toiletry is our big

00:20:39.920 --> 00:20:44.240
thing. Right. Didn't you say that before he came

00:20:44.240 --> 00:20:46.259
to you that he was with college kids and they

00:20:46.259 --> 00:20:49.180
kept him in the bathroom a lot? Yes. So that's

00:20:49.180 --> 00:20:51.500
why we're thinking there's a correlation in regards

00:20:51.500 --> 00:20:53.720
to that, because that's maybe one thing he could

00:20:53.720 --> 00:20:56.500
always get his hands on. Right. Yeah. And shred.

00:20:56.660 --> 00:21:00.859
And it's kind of like fun. We just don't know

00:21:00.859 --> 00:21:03.240
how to keep it out of the way of him. We try

00:21:03.240 --> 00:21:06.359
putting it underneath the sink, but he also knows

00:21:06.359 --> 00:21:09.680
how to open doors very well. Right. But I can't

00:21:09.680 --> 00:21:13.480
not keep Tulip in the bathroom. All right. Well,

00:21:13.480 --> 00:21:17.500
let's put a pin in that just temporarily, and

00:21:17.500 --> 00:21:19.140
we're going to talk about some different management

00:21:19.140 --> 00:21:21.519
strategies, and then we can open it back up and

00:21:21.519 --> 00:21:25.339
be like, cool, did we give you any ideas? Perfect.

00:21:26.480 --> 00:21:28.900
dial that in even a little more does anybody

00:21:28.900 --> 00:21:31.700
else have anything that they've dealt with toilet

00:21:31.700 --> 00:21:34.740
paper is a good one yeah that's a good one um

00:21:34.740 --> 00:21:38.559
hey guys it's me fatima hey fatima i don't i

00:21:38.559 --> 00:21:41.380
already told you this story so um with bubba

00:21:41.380 --> 00:21:46.240
he is super food driven um so we i have like

00:21:46.240 --> 00:21:50.599
as i told you some shrimp on the counter in the

00:21:50.599 --> 00:21:53.799
kitchen and i walked away for like A few seconds,

00:21:53.960 --> 00:21:57.279
just a few seconds. And I come back and he's

00:21:57.279 --> 00:22:00.740
already like jumped up, took the shrimp, put

00:22:00.740 --> 00:22:04.880
it down. He was munching on it. And he was enjoying

00:22:04.880 --> 00:22:07.160
the heck out of that shrimp. And I was making

00:22:07.160 --> 00:22:11.220
it for dinner for friends. And I was so mad.

00:22:11.359 --> 00:22:13.279
I didn't even know what to do at that point.

00:22:13.299 --> 00:22:16.240
If I should laugh, you know, scream at him. And

00:22:16.240 --> 00:22:18.579
he just he just sat there when he saw me looking

00:22:18.579 --> 00:22:22.029
at him and just. Just stop. Like, damn, I know

00:22:22.029 --> 00:22:24.829
I'm caught. It's like, what? I thought it was

00:22:24.829 --> 00:22:28.549
for both of us. Right. So he's just super food

00:22:28.549 --> 00:22:31.450
driven. Like, even if I'm sitting down at the

00:22:31.450 --> 00:22:34.509
dining table and eating, he will just either

00:22:34.509 --> 00:22:39.009
jump up to try to sniff and take a bite or sit

00:22:39.009 --> 00:22:41.109
there waiting for me. Like, he's looking at me

00:22:41.109 --> 00:22:43.069
like, mom, could you just drop some food? Like

00:22:43.069 --> 00:22:47.240
anything. But that was one of. The encounters

00:22:47.240 --> 00:22:51.019
I had with him, I was devastated. Oh, yeah. That's

00:22:51.019 --> 00:22:52.859
the moment where it's like, I'm just going to

00:22:52.859 --> 00:22:54.880
walk away. Right. I'm just going to take a minute.

00:22:54.880 --> 00:22:57.259
I had to calm down. I had to calm myself. Shrimp

00:22:57.259 --> 00:23:00.920
is expensive. Right? Shrimp is not a cheap one

00:23:00.920 --> 00:23:04.299
to steal. No, it's not. I was like, you know

00:23:04.299 --> 00:23:06.259
how much this is? This is like 30 bucks, dude.

00:23:06.299 --> 00:23:08.619
You just throw it down the drain. No, I can't

00:23:08.619 --> 00:23:11.839
use it. But yeah, that was that was one of the

00:23:11.839 --> 00:23:13.859
encounters with him over the counter. He loves

00:23:13.859 --> 00:23:16.740
to jump up on there and look if there's food.

00:23:16.779 --> 00:23:19.559
But hopefully now with the training, he's doing

00:23:19.559 --> 00:23:22.059
better and not going into the kitchen as much.

00:23:22.160 --> 00:23:24.640
But he still has like those little moments where

00:23:24.640 --> 00:23:27.119
he doesn't like he sees me distracted for one

00:23:27.119 --> 00:23:29.099
second. Then he runs and I'm just like, no. And

00:23:29.099 --> 00:23:32.819
then he runs back. he's like right that's the

00:23:32.819 --> 00:23:37.359
that was the getting sneaky thing that I was

00:23:37.359 --> 00:23:40.619
talking about right they start they're like they're

00:23:40.619 --> 00:23:45.880
watching I'm gonna be sneaky they start being

00:23:45.880 --> 00:23:49.930
ornery right I think our Dutch Shepherd is one

00:23:49.930 --> 00:23:53.430
of the main offenders of like, oh, mom and dad

00:23:53.430 --> 00:23:55.529
aren't watching. I'm going to do something crazy.

00:23:56.130 --> 00:23:58.349
He's like, oh, I'm going to go bother that dog.

00:23:58.450 --> 00:24:00.769
Or if we have the kids working with him, he's

00:24:00.769 --> 00:24:03.089
like, oh, I'm going to try to wrestle. And then

00:24:03.089 --> 00:24:05.430
we come out of nowhere and he's like, oh, oh,

00:24:05.470 --> 00:24:07.609
my parents are here. Oh, gosh. Oh, gosh. Right.

00:24:07.990 --> 00:24:10.069
Right. Accountability has entered the building.

00:24:10.190 --> 00:24:15.420
Yeah. That's pretty much him. Hopefully he gets

00:24:15.420 --> 00:24:17.920
out of that habit because I do not want to be

00:24:17.920 --> 00:24:20.000
losing any more shrimp. Well, we will talk about

00:24:20.000 --> 00:24:24.240
how to. Thanks for sharing. Awesome. So let's

00:24:24.240 --> 00:24:26.779
jump into that. I'm going to bring this guy back

00:24:26.779 --> 00:24:28.819
up. Before we even touch on that, though, I want

00:24:28.819 --> 00:24:30.599
to mention like one more thing that we haven't

00:24:30.599 --> 00:24:33.180
even touched on that. I mean, I've seen videos

00:24:33.180 --> 00:24:37.289
of is when. You get a dog that counter surfs

00:24:37.289 --> 00:24:40.630
and you have the stoves with the knobs on the

00:24:40.630 --> 00:24:43.089
front and dogs have accidentally turned those

00:24:43.089 --> 00:24:46.190
on. Right. And it's like caught things on fire.

00:24:46.269 --> 00:24:47.930
There's been like things on top of the stove,

00:24:48.069 --> 00:24:51.309
whatever, whatever you may have. But those are

00:24:51.309 --> 00:24:53.309
instances that people don't think of either where

00:24:53.309 --> 00:24:55.549
it's like that's a safety issue. It's not even

00:24:55.549 --> 00:24:58.230
it doesn't even come down to like, oh, my dog

00:24:58.230 --> 00:24:59.509
ate something off the counter. It's like, oh,

00:24:59.529 --> 00:25:01.490
my dog set my house on fire. Right. You know,

00:25:01.490 --> 00:25:04.619
that happened recently. There was. i don't know

00:25:04.619 --> 00:25:07.119
i'm trying to remember different i just watched

00:25:07.119 --> 00:25:10.599
a video recently where a dog accidentally um

00:25:10.599 --> 00:25:12.640
caught something on fire right there's a bunch

00:25:12.640 --> 00:25:14.400
of them right now with the batteries going around

00:25:14.400 --> 00:25:16.440
where the dogs there was one with like an electric

00:25:16.440 --> 00:25:18.619
like a heated glove and the dog was chewing on

00:25:18.619 --> 00:25:20.900
the glove and it had the battery thing in it

00:25:20.900 --> 00:25:22.859
and it combusted and like caught on fire and

00:25:22.859 --> 00:25:25.599
the dogs are all like ah we gotta get out of

00:25:25.599 --> 00:25:28.039
here right But there are a lot of those instances

00:25:28.039 --> 00:25:30.079
that like we don't think of right off the bat.

00:25:30.200 --> 00:25:31.900
Like we talk about counter -serving and we're

00:25:31.900 --> 00:25:33.640
like, oh, well, it steals the steak off the counter.

00:25:33.720 --> 00:25:36.660
But there are definitely like safety issues that

00:25:36.660 --> 00:25:40.740
we, you know, didn't touch on yet that can happen

00:25:40.740 --> 00:25:43.500
for sure if you're not, you know, careful in

00:25:43.500 --> 00:25:46.740
managing. Yeah. No, for sure. Okay. So let's

00:25:46.740 --> 00:25:50.680
jump into that. So stopping the stealing part.

00:25:52.509 --> 00:25:55.029
Definitely requires like management, but it also

00:25:55.029 --> 00:26:00.789
requires clear alternatives. It's similar to

00:26:00.789 --> 00:26:07.130
in one of the ways we stop jumping is by teaching

00:26:07.130 --> 00:26:10.450
a dog a pattern or a behavior that is literally

00:26:10.450 --> 00:26:15.509
impossible for them to do that and jump at the

00:26:15.509 --> 00:26:19.750
same time. Yeah. Right. By teaching a behavior

00:26:19.750 --> 00:26:24.410
that's inversely proportional to the issue that

00:26:24.410 --> 00:26:27.430
you're having, it's kind of a management strategy

00:26:27.430 --> 00:26:32.210
in and of itself. The first one, let's hit the

00:26:32.210 --> 00:26:34.869
low -hanging fruit or those really close targets

00:26:34.869 --> 00:26:41.309
first. Remove the food access and remove it from

00:26:41.309 --> 00:26:43.930
those counters and tables and things that the

00:26:43.930 --> 00:26:50.509
dogs can jump on. A close eye on things is great

00:26:50.509 --> 00:26:53.809
right up until you can't keep an eye on it. Right.

00:26:53.910 --> 00:26:57.869
And that's usually when these problems, you know,

00:26:57.869 --> 00:27:05.450
inject themselves into your life. So how I would

00:27:05.450 --> 00:27:12.170
apply that concept to managing a dog who gets

00:27:12.170 --> 00:27:17.579
access to those things. I'm thinking of a solution.

00:27:17.720 --> 00:27:19.900
Sorry. And I said that wrong. Let me back up

00:27:19.900 --> 00:27:23.859
a second. How I would apply that to cash specifically

00:27:23.859 --> 00:27:28.859
with a dog who is rating the toilet paper is.

00:27:30.799 --> 00:27:36.740
And this might be tricky because he can close.

00:27:36.759 --> 00:27:40.019
Right. Because he can open the doors. Right.

00:27:41.420 --> 00:27:48.480
Different. Different. Waste baskets that are

00:27:48.480 --> 00:27:52.779
more difficult to get into. Right. Something

00:27:52.779 --> 00:27:56.859
with a top to it or something that requires like

00:27:56.859 --> 00:27:59.079
actually using fingers and hands in order to

00:27:59.079 --> 00:28:02.519
open and then to deposit something into that

00:28:02.519 --> 00:28:07.660
waste basket can. potentially and i'm not trying

00:28:07.660 --> 00:28:11.019
to insult your intelligence whatsoever on on

00:28:11.019 --> 00:28:12.779
this subject but we're just going to talk about

00:28:12.779 --> 00:28:17.000
it in uh in general with those the easiest solutions

00:28:17.000 --> 00:28:20.680
and the hardest totally uh expect that you've

00:28:20.680 --> 00:28:22.660
worked through some of these things right um

00:28:22.660 --> 00:28:25.059
being able to open doors being able to open doors

00:28:25.059 --> 00:28:31.119
is tricky yeah um and they're uh things that

00:28:31.119 --> 00:28:36.529
um replacing um just popping out one of the hinges

00:28:36.529 --> 00:28:43.329
with a hinge that is spring loaded um you could

00:28:43.329 --> 00:28:46.990
safety those little knobs that cover your doorknob

00:28:46.990 --> 00:28:49.529
depending on the door depending on the type of

00:28:49.529 --> 00:28:53.329
doorknob either replacing um the doorknob with

00:28:53.329 --> 00:28:56.609
something that can't be opened as easy or there

00:28:56.609 --> 00:29:01.579
are multiple child proofing types of um covers

00:29:01.579 --> 00:29:05.680
and things that can go on there. And then looking

00:29:05.680 --> 00:29:09.680
at the cabinets themselves, if that's something

00:29:09.680 --> 00:29:13.920
that can be opened, there are different types

00:29:13.920 --> 00:29:19.299
of cabinet hardware that ideally could be just

00:29:19.299 --> 00:29:22.140
unscrewed with one or two screws in the back

00:29:22.140 --> 00:29:28.200
and swapped out. Or there are numerous child

00:29:29.019 --> 00:29:35.160
proof uh proofing type things that um you can

00:29:35.160 --> 00:29:38.140
put those little clips um you like screw them

00:29:38.140 --> 00:29:40.819
into the inside of the cabinet and then they

00:29:40.819 --> 00:29:42.740
create kind of like a little pressure switch

00:29:42.740 --> 00:29:45.019
you gotta like reach your fingers in there and

00:29:45.019 --> 00:29:47.579
push down on in order to open up the cabinets

00:29:47.579 --> 00:29:52.180
little things like that um can be one way that

00:29:52.180 --> 00:29:57.390
we can handle those things um okay so That's

00:29:57.390 --> 00:30:00.910
just removing access or controlling access to

00:30:00.910 --> 00:30:07.190
the actual items. Then the next thing is let's

00:30:07.190 --> 00:30:16.509
talk a impossible, a differential behavior that

00:30:16.509 --> 00:30:22.609
is impossible or incongruent. So place. Place

00:30:22.609 --> 00:30:26.890
is a great one. Place can be held either voluntarily

00:30:26.890 --> 00:30:32.490
or involuntarily with a dog. You can, when we're

00:30:32.490 --> 00:30:37.390
first training a dog to stay on place, we will

00:30:37.390 --> 00:30:42.670
use a tether. And we did a podcast with, we talked

00:30:42.670 --> 00:30:45.029
about tethered place, but we'll just hash it

00:30:45.029 --> 00:30:48.970
out real fast. Tethered place is where you take

00:30:48.970 --> 00:30:51.730
a place bed and you're in the process of teaching

00:30:51.730 --> 00:30:56.299
your dog to place. But you need accountability.

00:30:56.380 --> 00:30:59.380
So you put the dog on a leash, you tie said leash

00:30:59.380 --> 00:31:03.900
with a couple of feet of extra to spare so that

00:31:03.900 --> 00:31:08.000
the dog can, I'm sorry, you tie the leash to

00:31:08.000 --> 00:31:11.859
something that's very heavy or immovable. Now

00:31:11.859 --> 00:31:16.819
the dog has a option of only going a couple of

00:31:16.819 --> 00:31:21.049
feet around the place bed. And what will inevitably

00:31:21.049 --> 00:31:25.529
happen is that you create a space where the place

00:31:25.529 --> 00:31:28.869
bed is the most comfortable and the most advantageous

00:31:28.869 --> 00:31:32.509
option for them. So they could lay down on the

00:31:32.509 --> 00:31:35.670
hard floor if they want to be obstinate or they

00:31:35.670 --> 00:31:39.509
could lay on this nice place bed. Well, it doesn't

00:31:39.509 --> 00:31:42.569
take very long for a dog to choose to, hey, I'm

00:31:42.569 --> 00:31:44.069
actually going to lay on this place bed. It's

00:31:44.069 --> 00:31:48.740
more comfortable. by them just making that decision

00:31:48.740 --> 00:31:51.420
you start to build that in their head and now

00:31:51.420 --> 00:31:55.119
they're like i want to lay on this place bed

00:31:55.119 --> 00:31:59.299
rather than the floor yeah now you've increased

00:31:59.299 --> 00:32:01.900
the value of that place bed and now we continue

00:32:01.900 --> 00:32:05.700
to like build value in that it's not it's not

00:32:05.700 --> 00:32:09.859
as simple as just just do this but We'll bring

00:32:09.859 --> 00:32:13.000
it up as this is a training method that we can

00:32:13.000 --> 00:32:16.900
use in order to hold our dogs accountable. This

00:32:16.900 --> 00:32:20.359
is the strategy that we use in our house. Our

00:32:20.359 --> 00:32:25.920
dogs, when they, a lot of times we let them run

00:32:25.920 --> 00:32:29.180
around and do whatever in the house. But at the

00:32:29.180 --> 00:32:31.619
point where they're not making appropriate decisions,

00:32:32.000 --> 00:32:36.000
well now they're either going to place or they're

00:32:36.000 --> 00:32:39.619
going in a crate. And those are our two management

00:32:39.619 --> 00:32:44.299
strategies for our house. If you're not going

00:32:44.299 --> 00:32:47.119
to make a responsible, mature decision and not,

00:32:47.119 --> 00:32:49.660
you know, mess with your brother over there.

00:32:50.099 --> 00:32:52.759
Well, then you're going to lay on your place

00:32:52.759 --> 00:32:56.740
bed. Yeah. That's it. Yeah. And then I'm going

00:32:56.740 --> 00:32:58.779
to hold you accountable through multiple different

00:32:58.779 --> 00:33:01.000
means, either through a tether, through a leash,

00:33:01.160 --> 00:33:05.450
through an e -collar or. at the end of all of

00:33:05.450 --> 00:33:08.349
that hierarchy i'm gonna put you in a crate yeah

00:33:08.349 --> 00:33:11.710
because you're not listening yeah and i mean

00:33:11.710 --> 00:33:16.210
i think that's a lot of the times like what helps

00:33:16.210 --> 00:33:18.730
dogs is like oh well i don't even get to be out

00:33:18.730 --> 00:33:21.349
if i don't like behave right they learn a level

00:33:21.349 --> 00:33:24.950
of respect where if you can't if you can't participate

00:33:24.950 --> 00:33:27.430
in how we're gonna act then you're gonna you're

00:33:27.430 --> 00:33:30.420
gonna go to your room By the time I've told you

00:33:30.420 --> 00:33:33.279
three times to go back to your place. Yeah. I

00:33:33.279 --> 00:33:34.599
don't have time for that. I don't have time for

00:33:34.599 --> 00:33:36.099
that. You're going in a crate. Yeah. I have stuff

00:33:36.099 --> 00:33:38.240
to do. Like I'm an adult. Like we have to move

00:33:38.240 --> 00:33:40.480
on. I can't just be like, no place, no place,

00:33:40.500 --> 00:33:43.380
no place. Right. And I can do it very emotionless.

00:33:43.380 --> 00:33:45.640
Yeah. Like I don't have to get mad about it.

00:33:45.700 --> 00:33:47.480
I don't, I'm not going to waste my time with

00:33:47.480 --> 00:33:49.500
it. Yeah. I've asked you three times. You're

00:33:49.500 --> 00:33:52.119
not staying on your place. Cool. All right. Kennel.

00:33:52.220 --> 00:33:54.619
Yeah. And then you, and then they go to their

00:33:54.619 --> 00:33:57.670
kennel. Right. And you close the door. And then

00:33:57.670 --> 00:34:01.009
I move on with my day. Yeah. And that's that's

00:34:01.009 --> 00:34:03.710
the end of it. There's no there's no like I don't

00:34:03.710 --> 00:34:06.329
set a timer. I don't set anything. They go in

00:34:06.329 --> 00:34:08.769
there until the next time in which I'm like,

00:34:08.869 --> 00:34:12.750
hey, I want to have my dogs out. Yeah. But there's

00:34:12.750 --> 00:34:15.429
no like, oh, well, I only put them in there for

00:34:15.429 --> 00:34:17.429
20 minutes. They're going to go in there until

00:34:17.429 --> 00:34:23.110
until I'm ready. Yeah. And and it's it's not

00:34:23.110 --> 00:34:26.110
a it's not abuse. It's not mean. It's not I'm

00:34:26.110 --> 00:34:29.949
not. Even giving them an attitude about it. I'm

00:34:29.949 --> 00:34:32.829
just like, all right, cool. Right. And dogs being

00:34:32.829 --> 00:34:35.670
on place for however long isn't a problem for

00:34:35.670 --> 00:34:37.869
dogs. Like we will let our dogs out and not give

00:34:37.869 --> 00:34:39.349
them anything to do. And eventually they just

00:34:39.349 --> 00:34:40.710
end up going on their places because they're

00:34:40.710 --> 00:34:42.590
like, well, I don't know what else to do. But

00:34:42.590 --> 00:34:44.989
like misbehaving is not an option. So I'm just

00:34:44.989 --> 00:34:47.429
going to like go over here and lay down or take

00:34:47.429 --> 00:34:50.610
a nap or do whatever. And inevitably it's like

00:34:50.610 --> 00:34:53.530
we let the dogs out of their kennels. We put

00:34:53.530 --> 00:34:56.199
them on place and then. They immediately like

00:34:56.199 --> 00:34:59.019
fall asleep. And to the point where it's like,

00:34:59.079 --> 00:35:01.840
cool, like that's their habit and their pattern

00:35:01.840 --> 00:35:04.340
that we've instilled in them is like when you

00:35:04.340 --> 00:35:06.599
go to your place, you're going there to chill

00:35:06.599 --> 00:35:08.659
until I tell you to get up otherwise. So they

00:35:08.659 --> 00:35:11.019
just go there and they check out. They're like,

00:35:11.099 --> 00:35:13.699
cool, let me know when I'm done. And inevitably

00:35:13.699 --> 00:35:16.480
an hour or so later, however long it is until

00:35:16.480 --> 00:35:19.199
I'm done, you know, doing my laptop work or whatever.

00:35:19.960 --> 00:35:22.639
And then we go outside and then usually we go

00:35:22.639 --> 00:35:26.340
into our kennels. So it's not a crazy like structure,

00:35:26.519 --> 00:35:30.519
but I'm telling them where to move and when to

00:35:30.519 --> 00:35:34.179
move. And that's what most people don't see it

00:35:34.179 --> 00:35:35.760
as. They're like, well, I have to do this, this,

00:35:35.780 --> 00:35:37.559
then this. You just have to guide your dog and

00:35:37.559 --> 00:35:39.760
tell them where you want them to go next. Yep.

00:35:40.139 --> 00:35:42.900
All right. So the next one is let's teach the

00:35:42.900 --> 00:35:46.820
dog some impulse control behavior around the.

00:35:48.360 --> 00:35:51.320
The variable, whatever the variable is that they

00:35:51.320 --> 00:35:56.159
are trying to get. Yeah. In the case of our examples,

00:35:56.340 --> 00:36:00.820
it's food. In the case of cash, that would be

00:36:00.820 --> 00:36:03.880
that would be teaching him impulse control around

00:36:03.880 --> 00:36:07.639
toilet paper. Yeah. In the case of the eyeglasses,

00:36:07.800 --> 00:36:11.159
it would be we introduce those eyeglasses while

00:36:11.159 --> 00:36:14.920
a dog is on place and I just handle the eyeglasses

00:36:14.920 --> 00:36:21.320
or I. Have the dog in a down. And I work with

00:36:21.320 --> 00:36:24.179
the dog. With sit and down. While I'm holding

00:36:24.179 --> 00:36:27.940
the eyeglasses. Or Jenny in your case. While

00:36:27.940 --> 00:36:30.019
a roll of toilet paper is sitting on the counter.

00:36:30.219 --> 00:36:32.760
And then it's in your hand. And then it's on

00:36:32.760 --> 00:36:36.619
the ground. And then it's on the right. We introduce.

00:36:37.760 --> 00:36:45.019
That trigger. Progressively. Starting way away.

00:36:45.739 --> 00:36:49.179
Starting. With distance, because that distance

00:36:49.179 --> 00:36:52.579
decreases the volume in that dog's mind. Of the

00:36:52.579 --> 00:36:55.360
distraction, yeah. Of the distraction. And then

00:36:55.360 --> 00:36:59.739
we slowly incorporate more and more distraction

00:36:59.739 --> 00:37:04.440
with that inciting variable. Right, and the process

00:37:04.440 --> 00:37:07.219
of it isn't to be like, cool, he's not going

00:37:07.219 --> 00:37:08.639
to eat the toilet paper because he's in a down.

00:37:09.039 --> 00:37:11.119
It's teaching him that just because toilet paper

00:37:11.119 --> 00:37:13.500
is there doesn't mean that he gets to eat it.

00:37:14.409 --> 00:37:17.030
So it's not always like, cool, if he goes after

00:37:17.030 --> 00:37:18.489
toilet paper, you tell him to lay down or something

00:37:18.489 --> 00:37:22.250
like that. It's just desensitizing dogs to the

00:37:22.250 --> 00:37:25.010
item that's there, right? Very good. That's what

00:37:25.010 --> 00:37:30.829
we were going for. We're not just training for

00:37:30.829 --> 00:37:33.690
the toilet paper. You're continuing to train,

00:37:33.829 --> 00:37:39.820
but with the presence of. The variable that seems

00:37:39.820 --> 00:37:41.840
to. Right. And that can apply to so many different

00:37:41.840 --> 00:37:43.780
things. It's like, well, if your dog's barking

00:37:43.780 --> 00:37:45.840
at other dogs, you start at a distance and you

00:37:45.840 --> 00:37:48.260
bring the dogs closer, but you're working the

00:37:48.260 --> 00:37:51.300
dog through things and engaging with them through

00:37:51.300 --> 00:37:55.000
those triggers. Yep. You know what time it is?

00:37:55.320 --> 00:37:58.239
What time? It's time for the science lesson.

00:37:58.440 --> 00:38:00.340
Oh, goodness. I thought you didn't have one of

00:38:00.340 --> 00:38:03.079
those. Oh, you just. Oh, my goodness. I didn't

00:38:03.079 --> 00:38:05.159
have an update. Right. You have science. Okay.

00:38:05.260 --> 00:38:08.639
Okay. Pull up your chairs. Quick science lesson.

00:38:08.800 --> 00:38:12.179
I have the last like four podcasts I've done

00:38:12.179 --> 00:38:14.519
really good at getting a quick science lesson

00:38:14.519 --> 00:38:21.300
in. Okay. And the words have fallen on the floor.

00:38:22.760 --> 00:38:27.300
All right. Okay. This science lesson is on classical

00:38:27.300 --> 00:38:33.539
conditioning. I want to refresh and talk about

00:38:33.539 --> 00:38:35.980
classical condition with toilet paper. Okay.

00:38:36.059 --> 00:38:40.699
Okay. Classical conditioning is that concept

00:38:40.699 --> 00:38:48.000
that we have instilled or installed a reaction

00:38:48.000 --> 00:38:53.119
in a dog that is uncontrollable in the dog. And

00:38:53.119 --> 00:38:58.539
we've related it to something either on purpose

00:38:58.539 --> 00:39:03.679
or accidentally. So classical conditioning, that

00:39:03.679 --> 00:39:08.070
concept of The dogs were salivating, the Ivan

00:39:08.070 --> 00:39:10.489
Pavlov experiment, the dogs were salivating because

00:39:10.489 --> 00:39:15.489
the food was presented. That salivating because

00:39:15.489 --> 00:39:20.429
the food was presented was never conditioned

00:39:20.429 --> 00:39:23.090
in the dogs. It just happened naturally. The

00:39:23.090 --> 00:39:25.230
dogs were just, they were like, oh, there's food.

00:39:25.369 --> 00:39:27.590
Okay, I'm going to, and they naturally salivated.

00:39:27.929 --> 00:39:31.389
But by ringing the bell, then giving the food.

00:39:31.840 --> 00:39:34.199
then ringing the bell then giving the food doing

00:39:34.199 --> 00:39:38.000
that a few times you started to condition the

00:39:38.000 --> 00:39:43.900
dog to the bell even though the bell before the

00:39:43.900 --> 00:39:47.260
experiment had nothing to do with the dogs and

00:39:47.260 --> 00:39:52.179
the dogs were not conditioned to it so the bell

00:39:52.179 --> 00:39:59.900
became the conditioned stimulus and the conditioned

00:39:59.900 --> 00:40:05.940
response to that was the salivating the dog can

00:40:05.940 --> 00:40:10.699
become and in this case talking about the exact

00:40:10.699 --> 00:40:15.239
issue was this dog was uh potentially allegedly

00:40:15.239 --> 00:40:21.480
stored in and lived in a bathroom where it may

00:40:21.480 --> 00:40:25.760
have had access to toilet paper and when it was

00:40:25.760 --> 00:40:30.519
stimulated to do anything It had access to toilet

00:40:30.519 --> 00:40:33.739
paper. The toilet paper can become the bell.

00:40:33.960 --> 00:40:38.699
Yeah. And so now the dog sees the toilet paper

00:40:38.699 --> 00:40:43.260
and goes through a stimulus type response to

00:40:43.260 --> 00:40:47.440
the toilet paper. Like this is highly valuable

00:40:47.440 --> 00:40:51.019
to me. But really initially it was probably because

00:40:51.019 --> 00:40:53.880
it was something else. Yeah. But now it's been

00:40:53.880 --> 00:40:58.969
conditioned to. reacting to the toilet paper

00:40:58.969 --> 00:41:01.750
yep and i want to draw attention to the fact

00:41:01.750 --> 00:41:05.510
that the toilet paper and his response to the

00:41:05.510 --> 00:41:08.409
toilet paper is not a controlled response he's

00:41:08.409 --> 00:41:12.530
not necessarily if if this is a classical conditioning

00:41:12.530 --> 00:41:17.510
issue he has no control over it this is something

00:41:17.510 --> 00:41:20.409
that gets built in and then the dog just reacts

00:41:20.409 --> 00:41:23.980
to this happens to the doorbells this happens

00:41:23.980 --> 00:41:27.400
to the the sound of the mailman coming to the

00:41:27.400 --> 00:41:29.599
door this happens to all of these different things

00:41:29.599 --> 00:41:32.960
initially there was no reaction and now there

00:41:32.960 --> 00:41:37.219
is so what i'm getting at is the way that we

00:41:37.219 --> 00:41:42.460
break down that concept is by getting the dog

00:41:42.460 --> 00:41:46.920
to start to relate The fact that there's toilet

00:41:46.920 --> 00:41:49.960
paper there and they're being held accountable

00:41:49.960 --> 00:41:53.219
to this other like set of stimulus. Yeah. Or

00:41:53.219 --> 00:41:55.940
this other concept. So I'm doing sit, I'm doing

00:41:55.940 --> 00:41:57.860
down, I'm doing crate, I'm doing all of these

00:41:57.860 --> 00:42:00.420
other things that I'm giving food and the toilet

00:42:00.420 --> 00:42:03.079
paper is right there and I'm not interacting

00:42:03.079 --> 00:42:06.639
with it. And we start to lower the value of the

00:42:06.639 --> 00:42:11.679
toilet paper. Yeah. There you go. Science lesson

00:42:11.679 --> 00:42:17.050
for the day. Right. Okay. Nice. Um, Where was

00:42:17.050 --> 00:42:20.750
I? We're being called to disengagement consistently.

00:42:21.489 --> 00:42:24.170
There you go. So that comes down to, right, you

00:42:24.170 --> 00:42:29.170
see the dog, you know, walking by the counter

00:42:29.170 --> 00:42:33.849
with food on it. You can calmly reward that and

00:42:33.849 --> 00:42:37.230
catch the moments where they are doing a good

00:42:37.230 --> 00:42:41.530
job. And then you also have to, have to, have

00:42:41.530 --> 00:42:44.989
to, have to ensure that stealing never pays off.

00:42:45.840 --> 00:42:49.460
because just like we tell owners if the dog pulls

00:42:49.460 --> 00:42:51.159
on a leash and gets to where it's going you're

00:42:51.159 --> 00:42:55.739
20 steps back the same applies to to stealing

00:42:55.739 --> 00:43:00.079
things if the dog gets paid one time for stealing

00:43:00.079 --> 00:43:03.539
they're going to do it again and again and again

00:43:03.539 --> 00:43:05.500
and they're going to try harder each and every

00:43:05.500 --> 00:43:10.389
time And that's that variable ratio reward schedule.

00:43:10.650 --> 00:43:13.570
Right. Science lesson from like two or three

00:43:13.570 --> 00:43:16.389
things back. I'll touch on like extreme circumstances

00:43:16.389 --> 00:43:19.630
real quick before we like move on to I think

00:43:19.630 --> 00:43:23.050
listener projects are next, which is crazy. We're

00:43:23.050 --> 00:43:25.909
cruising. Yeah. But one big thing I want to talk

00:43:25.909 --> 00:43:29.269
about is we always inevitably get the call or

00:43:29.269 --> 00:43:31.989
get to the point where the owner is like, well,

00:43:32.130 --> 00:43:35.420
they're only doing it when I'm not there. What

00:43:35.420 --> 00:43:39.500
do I do or how do I handle something if I'm not

00:43:39.500 --> 00:43:45.780
there? One, crate your dog. Right? Put them in

00:43:45.780 --> 00:43:48.460
a crate when you're gone. And not only so that

00:43:48.460 --> 00:43:50.440
they don't steal something, right? It's a hazard

00:43:50.440 --> 00:43:54.760
to the dog. The dogs do not have the brain capacity

00:43:54.760 --> 00:43:58.119
or knowledge to know what is going to kill them

00:43:58.119 --> 00:44:02.449
and what is not. A dog sees a grape. Grapes are

00:44:02.449 --> 00:44:04.889
toxic. They're going to eat it. It doesn't matter.

00:44:05.070 --> 00:44:08.409
They don't know. Just like a dog's going to eat

00:44:08.409 --> 00:44:10.730
something chocolate, right? They don't know that

00:44:10.730 --> 00:44:12.989
it's dangerous to them and they don't care. They

00:44:12.989 --> 00:44:15.110
can consume it. They're going to, even if it's

00:44:15.110 --> 00:44:18.329
inconsumable, they might try to consume it. Toilet

00:44:18.329 --> 00:44:21.889
paper. Right. And so one, it's a danger to the

00:44:21.889 --> 00:44:24.949
dog. And two, I already touched on like, it comes

00:44:24.949 --> 00:44:28.969
down to, they could turn on your stove or. anything

00:44:28.969 --> 00:44:31.469
else your water they could flood your house there's

00:44:31.469 --> 00:44:33.130
a lot of different things that we don't think

00:44:33.130 --> 00:44:36.010
about on the front end that can go horribly wrong

00:44:36.010 --> 00:44:40.929
by leaving our dogs out free one when they're

00:44:40.929 --> 00:44:43.190
not mature or responsible enough to handle so

00:44:43.190 --> 00:44:46.409
and a lot of times regardless of their age or

00:44:46.409 --> 00:44:49.349
maturity like it's just a safety hazard sometimes

00:44:49.349 --> 00:44:54.289
um most of the time and so that's one of the

00:44:54.289 --> 00:44:58.880
main things and then two When it comes down to

00:44:58.880 --> 00:45:05.440
the ultimate like sneaky dog, we look at, and

00:45:05.440 --> 00:45:09.019
is this the most convenient for you? But no,

00:45:09.199 --> 00:45:12.400
it's not. And it can get kind of tricky, but

00:45:12.400 --> 00:45:15.880
you have to put the tools to work that you have

00:45:15.880 --> 00:45:18.880
available. And it's 2026. And what are those

00:45:18.880 --> 00:45:23.260
tools? So one, setting up a camera, whether that

00:45:23.260 --> 00:45:26.570
be. your phone an extra phone a ring camera they

00:45:26.570 --> 00:45:29.349
sell cheap cameras on on amazon i'm sure that

00:45:29.349 --> 00:45:32.570
you can just like set up on your counter um and

00:45:32.570 --> 00:45:36.789
using an e -collar and i don't necessarily mean

00:45:36.789 --> 00:45:40.250
that you have to electronically stem your dog

00:45:40.250 --> 00:45:44.530
which is not shocking them it's a muscle stimulator

00:45:44.530 --> 00:45:49.760
um so A lot of times we go to e -collar because

00:45:49.760 --> 00:45:51.960
if you can't be in the presence of your dog and

00:45:51.960 --> 00:45:54.320
your dog has learned that every time you leave,

00:45:54.380 --> 00:45:58.300
they have access to whatever it is, then there's

00:45:58.300 --> 00:46:00.860
nothing there to reinforce that. And so you have

00:46:00.860 --> 00:46:03.340
to be able to have vision of what the dog is

00:46:03.340 --> 00:46:06.420
doing and you have to have the ability to hold

00:46:06.420 --> 00:46:09.320
the dog accountable without being present, which

00:46:09.320 --> 00:46:12.849
comes down to. There's no option outside of an

00:46:12.849 --> 00:46:15.110
e -collar where you can hold a dog accountable

00:46:15.110 --> 00:46:18.610
without a collar or a leash on. Right. And so

00:46:18.610 --> 00:46:22.489
what we're not going to be able to go into is

00:46:22.489 --> 00:46:25.769
all of the methods and ways that we can train

00:46:25.769 --> 00:46:29.730
a dog on an e -collar for tonight. However, an

00:46:29.730 --> 00:46:34.289
electronic collar, a remote collar, there are

00:46:34.289 --> 00:46:37.119
many, many, many different. versions and and

00:46:37.119 --> 00:46:40.880
things out there and uh inevitably people immediately

00:46:40.880 --> 00:46:44.340
go right to oh you mean a shock collar no we

00:46:44.340 --> 00:46:46.800
mean a collar that you have a remote control

00:46:46.800 --> 00:46:50.760
to and that you can somehow one way or another

00:46:50.760 --> 00:46:53.559
get your dog's attention and hold your dog accountable

00:46:53.559 --> 00:46:57.320
from a distance but also if you buy a $20 e -collar

00:46:57.320 --> 00:46:59.760
off amazon it is going to shock your dog so don't

00:46:59.760 --> 00:47:03.110
do that for sure for sure yeah don't If you need

00:47:03.110 --> 00:47:04.909
a recommendation, yeah, we can give you some,

00:47:05.010 --> 00:47:07.250
but it is not going to be the $20 ones off Amazon

00:47:07.250 --> 00:47:11.809
because nobody that is a trainer or in that category

00:47:11.809 --> 00:47:13.989
is going to trust one of those devices. Nope.

00:47:14.650 --> 00:47:22.090
I prefer equipment that your dog responds to

00:47:22.090 --> 00:47:25.179
that is so low that I can't even feel it. Right.

00:47:25.239 --> 00:47:28.320
We put e -collars on ourselves and owners when

00:47:28.320 --> 00:47:32.199
we talk about e -collars. But just because you

00:47:32.199 --> 00:47:33.900
put an e -collar on your dog does not mean also

00:47:33.900 --> 00:47:36.039
that you have to use the e -stem setting. With

00:47:36.039 --> 00:47:37.880
the collars that we use, there's a tone setting.

00:47:38.119 --> 00:47:40.460
Some dogs don't like it. And there's also a vibrate

00:47:40.460 --> 00:47:42.639
setting, which is really, really popular among

00:47:42.639 --> 00:47:45.039
owners that are like, well, no, no, I'm not going

00:47:45.039 --> 00:47:48.039
to do that. Yeah, 100%. So vibrate is also an

00:47:48.039 --> 00:47:50.119
option that dogs are highly responsive to a lot

00:47:50.119 --> 00:47:52.739
of the times. The concept is simply that you

00:47:52.739 --> 00:47:57.760
can... reach out yeah and touch your dog yep

00:47:57.760 --> 00:48:01.099
from a distance right right the same concept

00:48:01.099 --> 00:48:04.800
as being able to put a leash on them and it goes

00:48:04.800 --> 00:48:07.900
50 feet into the other room yeah and then you

00:48:07.900 --> 00:48:10.559
have a video camera it'd be the same concept

00:48:10.559 --> 00:48:12.679
except you're like thinking through the logistics

00:48:12.679 --> 00:48:14.639
here you're like well that would never work exactly

00:48:14.639 --> 00:48:17.960
50 feet away where you have a camera in your

00:48:18.829 --> 00:48:21.550
you know, your kitchen. And when the dog jumps

00:48:21.550 --> 00:48:24.449
up on the counter, you can give them leash pressure

00:48:24.449 --> 00:48:27.289
and say no. Yeah. Well, that's all we're doing

00:48:27.289 --> 00:48:29.269
with a leash, with a, with a knee collar. Right.

00:48:29.349 --> 00:48:30.889
But dogs are smart enough to where eventually

00:48:30.889 --> 00:48:32.510
they're not going to do it with you standing

00:48:32.510 --> 00:48:35.030
right there. So then you have to move on and

00:48:35.030 --> 00:48:36.909
you have to like outsmart the dog. And that's

00:48:36.909 --> 00:48:38.570
why we're talking about the super sneaky dog.

00:48:38.650 --> 00:48:41.889
Yeah. And it's not every dog. We, I mean, Dexter's

00:48:41.889 --> 00:48:45.590
almost two and one. He's never even had human

00:48:45.590 --> 00:48:50.039
food outside of, I've now, Given him one blueberry

00:48:50.039 --> 00:48:53.480
that he dissected and a strawberry that he loved.

00:48:54.260 --> 00:48:57.780
So I will every now and then cut something up

00:48:57.780 --> 00:48:59.559
for myself. And I'm like, I'm going to give these

00:48:59.559 --> 00:49:03.380
to the dogs to try. But he's always like, this

00:49:03.380 --> 00:49:05.519
is really weird. I don't I don't know what this

00:49:05.519 --> 00:49:09.579
is. This is not dog food. But he's the height

00:49:09.579 --> 00:49:13.630
of our counters. And he is never like. I'm going

00:49:13.630 --> 00:49:15.969
to jump up and try to get that. Because he's

00:49:15.969 --> 00:49:18.250
never been able to. Right. He's never been able

00:49:18.250 --> 00:49:20.530
to. Not even one time. Yeah. If you've never

00:49:20.530 --> 00:49:22.889
tried steak, you're not going to be like, well,

00:49:22.969 --> 00:49:24.929
that's delicious. Right. He doesn't know what

00:49:24.929 --> 00:49:28.010
it tastes like. Yeah. He smells it. Yeah. He'll

00:49:28.010 --> 00:49:29.309
put his nose up there. He'll put his nose up

00:49:29.309 --> 00:49:31.090
there and be like, oh, something smells good.

00:49:31.110 --> 00:49:32.949
Yeah, there's something up there. But that's

00:49:32.949 --> 00:49:36.090
the end of it. Yeah. Because he's never been

00:49:36.090 --> 00:49:41.670
able to learn that behavior. Yep. Yep. All right.

00:49:43.460 --> 00:49:45.739
Um, right. And then there's other dogs we haven't

00:49:45.739 --> 00:49:49.960
been as, uh, successful with because, you know,

00:49:49.960 --> 00:49:55.820
they, they, when, when I say, I have no idea

00:49:55.820 --> 00:49:57.480
what you're talking about. No, no, no, no. Yeah,

00:49:57.559 --> 00:50:01.980
yeah, yeah. Um, and there's other, uh, are like,

00:50:02.159 --> 00:50:12.449
um, I got nothing. Your words fell. I know they

00:50:12.449 --> 00:50:14.889
fell out and they, they fell on the floor. Um,

00:50:14.989 --> 00:50:17.250
the other, other dogs. So we have four dogs.

00:50:17.369 --> 00:50:19.449
Uh, let me just jump into this one. So we have,

00:50:19.469 --> 00:50:23.969
we have four dogs and, uh, Dexter is the one

00:50:23.969 --> 00:50:26.429
that has never like tasted human food. So we

00:50:26.429 --> 00:50:28.829
don't have that issue. Well, we have other dogs

00:50:28.829 --> 00:50:31.369
that have tasted human food and they're like,

00:50:31.489 --> 00:50:34.920
Hey, I, I want up there. So like our little Frenchie,

00:50:34.920 --> 00:50:38.019
she'll like climb your leg and be like, Hey,

00:50:38.139 --> 00:50:41.219
what do you got there? I want it. I want some

00:50:41.219 --> 00:50:43.739
of that. Right, that's all I was getting at.

00:50:43.820 --> 00:50:46.679
Right, and then also Nala before has had eggs,

00:50:46.880 --> 00:50:48.739
which we didn't know, but every time we crack

00:50:48.739 --> 00:50:50.659
an egg, she like comes around the corner and

00:50:50.659 --> 00:50:51.780
it's like, what are you looking at? And it's

00:50:51.780 --> 00:50:54.239
like, oh, right, I have eggs. Because she used

00:50:54.239 --> 00:50:55.719
to get fed. Right, we've never given her eggs,

00:50:55.860 --> 00:50:57.880
but she used to, yeah. Yeah, and they would crack

00:50:57.880 --> 00:50:59.280
an egg and give it to her. In her food, yeah.

00:50:59.599 --> 00:51:02.400
And so now she hears the eggs and she's like

00:51:02.400 --> 00:51:04.599
right there. Right, it's been like so many years

00:51:04.599 --> 00:51:06.619
since she's had eggs, but she still hears an

00:51:06.619 --> 00:51:09.010
egg and she's like, what is that? What is that

00:51:09.010 --> 00:51:10.909
an egg you're cracking over there? I know what

00:51:10.909 --> 00:51:12.610
that is. Right. But also like, we didn't even

00:51:12.610 --> 00:51:14.429
touch on the fact that like our management strategy

00:51:14.429 --> 00:51:16.769
alone also is like, no dogs are allowed in the

00:51:16.769 --> 00:51:19.710
kitchen because like, why, why would they be?

00:51:19.750 --> 00:51:22.030
You're not going to help me put dishes away or

00:51:22.030 --> 00:51:25.110
cook this food. So why are you even in the kitchen?

00:51:25.349 --> 00:51:28.269
So we have like boundaries where the dogs like

00:51:28.269 --> 00:51:30.969
step to the edge of the counter and they don't

00:51:30.969 --> 00:51:33.269
go past it. Nala likes to lay right there in

00:51:33.269 --> 00:51:37.090
the middle of the walkway. But it's the boundary

00:51:37.090 --> 00:51:40.030
of like, nope, go, go. I'm a big fan of go. And

00:51:40.030 --> 00:51:41.889
I know that that's not like an official command,

00:51:42.010 --> 00:51:44.590
but it's a cue that dogs can understand, especially

00:51:44.590 --> 00:51:47.590
when you do the like mom hand wave of like get

00:51:47.590 --> 00:51:50.590
back. And I always do the snap. I'm a snapper.

00:51:52.150 --> 00:51:55.150
But dogs can learn boundary lines. And you just

00:51:55.150 --> 00:51:57.050
teach them where they're allowed to go and where

00:51:57.050 --> 00:51:58.590
they're not allowed to go. And then it's like,

00:51:58.690 --> 00:52:00.230
cool, we're not even going to step foot in the

00:52:00.230 --> 00:52:01.849
kitchen. We're not even allowed in the kitchen.

00:52:02.269 --> 00:52:04.789
I don't even know what's over there. yeah i just

00:52:04.789 --> 00:52:06.389
didn't want to make it sound like we have such

00:52:06.389 --> 00:52:09.190
amazing dogs right we don't our dogs are awful

00:52:09.190 --> 00:52:12.030
some days we've never had to deal with any issues

00:52:12.030 --> 00:52:14.230
right oh yeah for sure we have and dexter still

00:52:14.230 --> 00:52:17.230
like every now and then he'll jump up on a kennel

00:52:17.230 --> 00:52:20.030
to be like is there something good up here and

00:52:20.030 --> 00:52:22.809
it's like no off right and he's very good about

00:52:22.809 --> 00:52:25.289
like oh okay here's no and he's like oh sorry

00:52:25.289 --> 00:52:29.230
okay but he's opportunistic he's still a little

00:52:29.230 --> 00:52:31.719
puppy right he's less than two getting close

00:52:31.719 --> 00:52:35.119
but less than two very large right and he just

00:52:35.119 --> 00:52:37.099
like he doesn't even jump right he just steps

00:52:37.099 --> 00:52:42.739
up it's like it's outrageous um but we're paying

00:52:42.739 --> 00:52:46.099
attention to him right and he's not just out

00:52:46.099 --> 00:52:49.840
of our sight doing whatever he wants and so yeah

00:52:49.840 --> 00:52:52.159
we we don't have perfect dogs there are some

00:52:52.159 --> 00:52:54.300
days where i'm like you know you know there's

00:52:54.300 --> 00:52:57.639
somebody else that would like to have you i would

00:52:57.639 --> 00:53:01.710
never but We don't have easy dogs. And when you

00:53:01.710 --> 00:53:04.429
have four, there's never moments at all times

00:53:04.429 --> 00:53:06.170
where you're like, man, these dogs are all so

00:53:06.170 --> 00:53:09.650
great. They pick their days of battles and violence.

00:53:09.889 --> 00:53:11.730
There's good days and bad days. Yeah. Everybody

00:53:11.730 --> 00:53:13.769
has good days and bad days. Today, they were

00:53:13.769 --> 00:53:17.630
all perfect angel babies. Perfect angels. No

00:53:17.630 --> 00:53:20.190
problem. We took hard naps on our place beds.

00:53:20.329 --> 00:53:22.710
I took a video of Dexter sleeping upside down.

00:53:22.829 --> 00:53:26.699
Love that. They did great. But. He tested me

00:53:26.699 --> 00:53:28.739
at first when he didn't have a collar or leash

00:53:28.739 --> 00:53:31.480
or anything on. I was like, oh, you got any accountability

00:53:31.480 --> 00:53:34.900
here? You going to tell me to go back? But after

00:53:34.900 --> 00:53:37.579
one time of being like, no, go back. I'm not

00:53:37.579 --> 00:53:39.699
playing around. He's like, okay, I'm just going

00:53:39.699 --> 00:53:42.699
to lay down. Right. But results are not always

00:53:42.699 --> 00:53:44.820
typical. Right. Those results are not always

00:53:44.820 --> 00:53:46.639
typical. Right. And sometimes it depends on the

00:53:46.639 --> 00:53:48.380
time of day, right? They get up and they choose

00:53:48.380 --> 00:53:50.199
violence. Right. And they're like, I don't know.

00:53:50.199 --> 00:53:52.800
He chooses violence every morning at 7 a .m.,

00:53:52.800 --> 00:53:56.920
if not a little bit before. he's one of those

00:53:56.920 --> 00:53:59.579
dogs. Like we, we knew the dog that we got and

00:53:59.579 --> 00:54:01.559
we knew he wasn't going to be an easy dog. There's

00:54:01.559 --> 00:54:03.860
easy dogs and there's not easy dogs. And it really

00:54:03.860 --> 00:54:05.780
just depends on the type of dog that you have.

00:54:05.980 --> 00:54:07.980
Yeah. But you have to be willing to figure out

00:54:07.980 --> 00:54:10.079
your dog and what works for them and what doesn't

00:54:10.079 --> 00:54:14.139
because every dog is managed differently and

00:54:14.139 --> 00:54:16.800
every dog has a different strategy that works.

00:54:18.380 --> 00:54:22.639
Love that. All right. Let's open it up for questions.

00:54:23.119 --> 00:54:29.500
So, um, If you have a question, now is your chance

00:54:29.500 --> 00:54:56.170
to ask it. Give you 10 seconds. all right no

00:54:56.170 --> 00:55:01.929
questions moving on to listener projects pulling

00:55:01.929 --> 00:55:07.670
it up and go place during meal prep so when you

00:55:07.670 --> 00:55:11.630
start working on a meal you can start to reinforce

00:55:11.630 --> 00:55:17.559
this concept of of guided like timelines in your

00:55:17.559 --> 00:55:21.239
house so when you go uh it is not impossible

00:55:21.239 --> 00:55:23.300
to train a dog that whenever you go into the

00:55:23.300 --> 00:55:24.980
kitchen and start working with food that they

00:55:24.980 --> 00:55:27.480
go to their place bed or they go into their crates

00:55:27.480 --> 00:55:29.559
or they go in the other room or whatever it is

00:55:29.559 --> 00:55:34.940
right dogs are pattern based so teach them through

00:55:34.940 --> 00:55:38.480
that that when you go into the kitchen you start

00:55:38.480 --> 00:55:41.019
working with food that they go to their place

00:55:41.019 --> 00:55:44.239
right because half of the people On this call

00:55:44.239 --> 00:55:46.400
and listening to the podcast afterwards, you

00:55:46.400 --> 00:55:47.840
didn't teach your dog that when you pick up the

00:55:47.840 --> 00:55:49.539
leash, you're going for a walk, but that your

00:55:49.539 --> 00:55:51.179
dog doesn't get excited when you pick up a leash.

00:55:51.380 --> 00:55:56.179
Yeah. Yep. So reward that calm holding on that

00:55:56.179 --> 00:55:58.659
place. So send your dog to place as soon as you

00:55:58.659 --> 00:56:02.519
start the food prep and then reward them intermittently.

00:56:03.700 --> 00:56:07.460
through those continuation markers. So we use

00:56:07.460 --> 00:56:10.460
yes and we use good as continuation markers.

00:56:10.579 --> 00:56:14.219
Continue to reward them intermittently as you're

00:56:14.219 --> 00:56:16.780
working through your food prep. And then release

00:56:16.780 --> 00:56:21.340
only after the food activities end. Listener

00:56:21.340 --> 00:56:25.800
project number two, kitchen boundaries. Just

00:56:25.800 --> 00:56:31.039
like we can teach a dog to stay off of or out

00:56:31.039 --> 00:56:33.400
from in front of a door that we're going to then

00:56:33.400 --> 00:56:39.420
open, we can also teach the dog that the kitchen

00:56:39.420 --> 00:56:43.519
is a boundary and that they don't enter it when

00:56:43.519 --> 00:56:48.380
you're doing things in the kitchen. So you can

00:56:48.380 --> 00:56:52.699
keep the counters clear and you can enforce a

00:56:52.699 --> 00:56:57.019
specific boundary. either putting a um like a

00:56:57.019 --> 00:57:01.840
a rug or a mat or a blanket or a towel or something

00:57:01.840 --> 00:57:07.280
down and that is now the new like line in the

00:57:07.280 --> 00:57:11.440
sand so to speak where hey you don't cross this

00:57:11.440 --> 00:57:16.760
line and just hold them accountable calmly and

00:57:16.760 --> 00:57:20.519
without emotion and teach them that hey This

00:57:20.519 --> 00:57:26.039
is the boundary. Supervise and manage that dog

00:57:26.039 --> 00:57:29.239
and their attention. Give them those other things

00:57:29.239 --> 00:57:33.079
to do. Go to your place. Go to a crate. Go chew

00:57:33.079 --> 00:57:35.760
on this bone over there in the living room. Whatever

00:57:35.760 --> 00:57:38.880
it is. And reward that common disengagement from

00:57:38.880 --> 00:57:44.280
trying to get into the kitchen. All right. That's

00:57:44.280 --> 00:57:48.280
all I got for tonight. Cool. No questions at

00:57:48.280 --> 00:57:53.969
all. All right. That is all I've got for tonight,

00:57:54.150 --> 00:57:57.909
so we will close it out. You got time for one

00:57:57.909 --> 00:58:01.769
more question? I sure do. I sure do. I wasn't

00:58:01.769 --> 00:58:04.289
sure how to ask it. I've been mulling it over

00:58:04.289 --> 00:58:10.010
while you did your little extra bit there. So

00:58:10.010 --> 00:58:12.329
let me just word vomit it, and then you guys.

00:58:13.079 --> 00:58:15.199
Tell me how I screwed this up. Have you heard

00:58:15.199 --> 00:58:17.159
most of this podcast? That's what I've been doing.

00:58:17.400 --> 00:58:20.840
That's my strategy most of the time. I can't

00:58:20.840 --> 00:58:22.860
find the words I dropped on the floor yet, okay?

00:58:23.300 --> 00:58:27.519
So here it goes. All right. You guys said earlier

00:58:27.519 --> 00:58:30.840
we don't have time to correct passe three times

00:58:30.840 --> 00:58:33.340
and we put them in the crate. Yeah. Who's got

00:58:33.340 --> 00:58:36.059
time for that, right? Yep. Do it, do it, do it.

00:58:36.079 --> 00:58:39.039
Don't do it. Okay. Punishment, right? I'm putting

00:58:39.039 --> 00:58:42.239
them in the crate for a punishment. but we're

00:58:42.239 --> 00:58:45.340
training the crate to be the safe space, the

00:58:45.340 --> 00:58:49.119
feeding space. Yep. Now we're using the crate

00:58:49.119 --> 00:58:52.960
as a punishment or when we leave a year dog to

00:58:52.960 --> 00:58:56.579
choose on something, I don't trust you. How do

00:58:56.579 --> 00:59:00.840
I reinforce punishment versus safe space? I gotcha.

00:59:00.920 --> 00:59:05.219
Right. Remember my dog without, I don't even

00:59:05.219 --> 00:59:06.980
know what the punishment is other than kicking

00:59:06.980 --> 00:59:14.500
it or. Never. I know. I know. I know you don't

00:59:14.500 --> 00:59:16.440
kick. I know you don't kick your dog. So, yeah,

00:59:16.500 --> 00:59:19.639
I get it. But what is what is a punishment versus

00:59:19.639 --> 00:59:24.480
like a reward if I'm using the same space as

00:59:24.480 --> 00:59:33.099
both? Yep. Let me let me read. So I had was talking

00:59:33.099 --> 00:59:36.000
to Brianna about this actually earlier today.

00:59:36.880 --> 00:59:39.840
Because I think that one way that I sometimes

00:59:39.840 --> 00:59:43.519
word this in my head versus the way that it comes

00:59:43.519 --> 00:59:46.820
across might have created some of this confusion.

00:59:47.539 --> 00:59:50.840
Okay, so when you say that now, you know me and

00:59:50.840 --> 00:59:53.679
you know how I like to try to overthink and dissect

00:59:53.679 --> 00:59:57.239
and think forward. Am I doing that again instead

00:59:57.239 --> 01:00:00.139
of just thinking simple -minded that the dog

01:00:00.139 --> 01:00:03.800
is too stupid to know punishment versus reward?

01:00:04.099 --> 01:00:07.019
Because we know Cash is a smart dog. Right. But

01:00:07.019 --> 01:00:09.780
he's pushed every boundary we've put upon him

01:00:09.780 --> 01:00:13.730
trying to train him. And then some. Yeah, so

01:00:13.730 --> 01:00:16.329
I think for me, I don't know what Ryan's answer

01:00:16.329 --> 01:00:19.489
will be, but for me, it comes down to your attitude

01:00:19.489 --> 01:00:23.789
when you're putting him in the crate. So just

01:00:23.789 --> 01:00:26.329
like I know we had talked about off on the couch,

01:00:26.489 --> 01:00:31.190
right? And if you just go silent and just guide

01:00:31.190 --> 01:00:35.250
him off the couch, there's a difference in conflict

01:00:35.250 --> 01:00:37.869
there between your attitude with the dog, right?

01:00:38.050 --> 01:00:42.280
If the dog gets something or... you know, you're

01:00:42.280 --> 01:00:45.340
in the process of cooking dinner and they keep

01:00:45.340 --> 01:00:47.039
crossing the boundary, then you're not going

01:00:47.039 --> 01:00:49.840
to go, no, I told you not to go past that boundary

01:00:49.840 --> 01:00:51.760
and like correct the dog or anything, which when

01:00:51.760 --> 01:00:53.719
we talk about punishment, most of the time we

01:00:53.719 --> 01:00:55.539
either talk about correcting the dog in some

01:00:55.539 --> 01:00:58.380
way, whatever way people do it is entirely up

01:00:58.380 --> 01:01:01.099
to them. We teach. fair corrections with leashes

01:01:01.099 --> 01:01:03.699
and collars and things like that but we don't

01:01:03.699 --> 01:01:07.320
correct the dog for it we simply change the variable

01:01:07.320 --> 01:01:09.320
and the situation that we're putting the dog

01:01:09.320 --> 01:01:12.460
in but without emotion or any type of really

01:01:12.460 --> 01:01:15.179
punishment involved you're just changing the

01:01:15.179 --> 01:01:19.099
situation on them and super neutrally like it's

01:01:19.099 --> 01:01:22.820
like hey cool go to your place no place no place

01:01:22.820 --> 01:01:25.980
he breaks again and it's like cool now i'm just

01:01:25.980 --> 01:01:28.760
going to silently guide you to your crate And

01:01:28.760 --> 01:01:31.900
so what I was going to include on that is that

01:01:31.900 --> 01:01:35.980
what we have done by feeding the dog in their

01:01:35.980 --> 01:01:38.159
crate and by giving them treats in their crate

01:01:38.159 --> 01:01:41.239
and things like that is that we have created

01:01:41.239 --> 01:01:46.340
a neutral space. It's not about it being a rewarded,

01:01:46.500 --> 01:01:49.940
fun place to hang out that the dog will always

01:01:49.940 --> 01:01:53.900
want to go. It's just about removing the negativity.

01:01:55.079 --> 01:01:57.940
surrounding it so that it can be kind of a neutral

01:01:57.940 --> 01:02:04.780
zone then we can use that as once again a neutral

01:02:04.780 --> 01:02:09.800
type of stimulus so dog won't listen dog won't

01:02:09.800 --> 01:02:13.980
listen dog won't listen well okay then let's

01:02:13.980 --> 01:02:16.719
go over here and we'll go to this space instead

01:02:16.719 --> 01:02:22.420
yeah that is not the same as You'll see a lot

01:02:22.420 --> 01:02:24.320
of people grabbing them by the collar and just

01:02:24.320 --> 01:02:25.960
tossing their dog into the crate. Dragging them

01:02:25.960 --> 01:02:30.159
in there or trying to muscle them in and all

01:02:30.159 --> 01:02:31.400
of those things. That's not going to work with

01:02:31.400 --> 01:02:33.900
Cash, right? He's treat motivated to get into

01:02:33.900 --> 01:02:36.539
that crate. So I'm struggling with the fact that

01:02:36.539 --> 01:02:39.139
I'm rewarding him to get into the crate versus

01:02:39.139 --> 01:02:43.280
teaching him that it's a punishment for not following

01:02:43.280 --> 01:02:47.960
what we asked him to do. I gotcha. Is Cash on

01:02:47.960 --> 01:02:55.900
a leash or a lead or anything while he's in this

01:02:55.900 --> 01:02:58.639
space where you may need to interact with him?

01:02:58.960 --> 01:03:01.960
Are we still using those? No, right? We're not

01:03:01.960 --> 01:03:05.460
using the pinch caller 24 -7, but I'm thinking

01:03:05.460 --> 01:03:09.820
that it might be something that needs to go longer.

01:03:10.719 --> 01:03:16.500
It could, but... So ideally, we can use leash

01:03:16.500 --> 01:03:20.440
pressure, turning that pressure on and off to

01:03:20.440 --> 01:03:24.400
to kind of communicate with the dog, whether

01:03:24.400 --> 01:03:27.400
they're wearing, you know, a prong collar or

01:03:27.400 --> 01:03:30.019
a star mark collar or whatever kind of collar

01:03:30.019 --> 01:03:33.440
that they're wearing. We should still be able

01:03:33.440 --> 01:03:36.800
to use that leash pressure and guide the dog.

01:03:37.380 --> 01:03:40.539
That's that's the goal. And so if we're having

01:03:40.539 --> 01:03:44.300
an issue with that process, then that's a communication

01:03:44.300 --> 01:03:47.219
thing that we need to bolster up regardless of

01:03:47.219 --> 01:03:51.940
whether we're using the treat. Or like if he's

01:03:51.940 --> 01:03:54.480
only going in there for the treat, then I would

01:03:54.480 --> 01:03:56.380
say we've got a little more work that we can

01:03:56.380 --> 01:04:00.300
do whether we're involved with the crate or not,

01:04:00.480 --> 01:04:04.789
if that makes sense. It does. And I think that's

01:04:04.789 --> 01:04:07.550
something that maybe you and I need to work on

01:04:07.550 --> 01:04:11.070
next time you're here is to actually see the

01:04:11.070 --> 01:04:15.789
interaction between dinnertime versus the treat

01:04:15.789 --> 01:04:18.730
to go in the crate and the free to come out of

01:04:18.730 --> 01:04:23.289
it. Awesome. Yeah. So as we build more of that

01:04:23.289 --> 01:04:25.690
clear communication, we should see a decrease

01:04:25.690 --> 01:04:33.059
in that. reliance on treats in order to get in

01:04:33.059 --> 01:04:35.219
and out of the crate but i do see the confusion

01:04:35.219 --> 01:04:39.940
with we uh what i was not trying to say was that

01:04:39.940 --> 01:04:43.000
cool then i'm going to reward the dog with a

01:04:43.000 --> 01:04:46.980
treat to go in their crate like instead of going

01:04:46.980 --> 01:04:50.789
on their place so i can see that confusion No,

01:04:50.829 --> 01:04:53.469
I don't know. I appreciate it. I just was, again,

01:04:53.630 --> 01:04:56.150
you know how my brain functions. So I instantly

01:04:56.150 --> 01:04:59.090
start thinking 27 steps ahead. Yeah, no problem.

01:04:59.369 --> 01:05:02.929
Awesome. I love the interaction and I love the

01:05:02.929 --> 01:05:06.510
questions. I always prefer to talk through all

01:05:06.510 --> 01:05:08.650
the things. So thanks, Michael. Thanks for. No,

01:05:08.670 --> 01:05:12.429
we appreciate you guys so much. It's been such

01:05:12.429 --> 01:05:16.349
a valuable resource. We're almost there. We're

01:05:16.349 --> 01:05:20.980
just not quite. We're having a glass of wine

01:05:20.980 --> 01:05:26.139
tonight. Maybe two. I got it. You guys have a

01:05:26.139 --> 01:05:32.260
unique household dynamic. Yes, yes. All right.

01:05:32.340 --> 01:05:37.960
Well, with that, we will close out tonight. Thank

01:05:37.960 --> 01:05:42.119
you, everybody, for joining us. Thank you. And

01:05:42.119 --> 01:05:46.079
I appreciate everybody for tuning in and jumping

01:05:46.079 --> 01:05:49.039
on the call tonight. And if you are listening,

01:05:49.219 --> 01:05:53.239
thanks for making it all the way to episode 22.

01:05:53.579 --> 01:05:57.400
So thank you and good night. Good night.