WEBVTT

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Welcome to Pawprint Academy, your blueprint to

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raising better dogs. My name is Ryan, and I'll

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be your host for this journey. I've got my trusty

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co -host here, Brianna. Hello. And together,

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we're bringing you real -world training insights

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built on leadership, structure, and proven methods.

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We record this podcast with live clients on the

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line in one take with live, unscripted questions

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and answers. At the end of the day, this podcast

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is a lot more than just teaching your dog to

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sit or stay. creating calmness, and becoming

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the kind of leader your dog truly needs. We do

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that with our three pillar method of trust, obey,

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and perform. Together, we'll show you how these

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three pillars shape every step of training. Thanks

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for being here. Let's get started. All right,

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good evening. Episode 14, The Recall. Why it

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fails and how to fix it. So tonight, today, we

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have a special guest joining us. Her name is

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Sierra, and she's the owner of Summit Kennels.

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She's a military veteran, a leader in the local

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dog training community, and someone whose experience

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really spans from... both the tactical canine

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world to helping everyday families build better

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dogs. And building better dogs has always been

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our mission as well. So it seems only natural

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to invite her to be part of the podcast. And

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her dedication to the craft of dog training and

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the impact she continues to make in our local

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region makes her an obvious leader in the dog

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training space and in the local area. So, Sierra,

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thank you for being here tonight. Yeah, thanks

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for having me. So tonight we are talking about

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the recall. And this is our second series on

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different dog training subjects. The first series

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obviously was the puppy foundations of raising

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puppies. And now we are moving into the realm

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of basic obedience. Basic is kind of a loose

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term, but obedience. Basic is basic right up

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until it's not basic anymore. And so tonight,

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the core idea that we're talking about is that

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recall is absolutely the most important safety

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command a dog will ever learn. And it fails when

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the dog does not understand the cue. Doesn't

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value coming back or it's been unintentionally

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poisoned. Like the cue has been unintentionally

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poisoned by the owner. Yep. And a reliable recall

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is built through clarity structure and also the

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rewarding speed. Yeah. And that is the tricky

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part. Right. Right. Timing is always the most

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important. Absolutely. So major point. Number

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one in our outline is why the recall fails. Before

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we even talk about exactly what to do here, let's

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talk about why it fails. Owners often think that

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a dog is just being stubborn. Most recall problems

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come from just kind of unclear... training patterns

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right um and sierra i know you um in our previous

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kind of interview here we were talking about

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clarity and our communication and uh certainly

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i would love for you to weigh in at at some point

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here on with your tie uh with your background

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in the tactical side right i'm sure that recall

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is like kind of a matter of life and death on

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on the the tactical canine side and so um i'd

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love for you to weigh in on that as we go through

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here um but let's let's talk about why why recall

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fails all right so many owners unintentionally

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poison the queue by and and and devalue the queue

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yeah by repeating whatever the command is while

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the dog ignores it yep and that's with any any

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command that we give kind of right it's like

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we always will tell you like don't just sit there

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and repeat the command yeah if they're not doing

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it and you're just sitting there saying come

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come come come the dog's not listening to you

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yeah and the 12th time you say it they're still

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not listening to you yeah So when a dog ignores

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it, right, we've got to do something different.

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And there's several different things to do. But

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initially, the first thing that we teach owners

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is that you've got to maintain accountability.

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Because if you don't have accountability of your

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dog, then they are allowed or they get inadvertently

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allowed to weigh in on whether they want to do

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it or not. And at that point we've lost control.

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Yep. And then what we start to do is we reinforce

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these bad repetitions for these bad reps. So

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we say come and the dog doesn't come. And, and

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then we're like, well, dang it. I'll say it again.

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And then it just makes the process worse. Right.

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And we continue down that. Yep. Cause if they

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can ignore you and still keep doing what they're

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doing, they're going to, if you can't hold them

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accountable. For what you've asked them to do.

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Yeah, absolutely. So dogs learn that ignoring

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the recall still eventually results in freedom

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or play or something that is positive. And at

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that point, that becomes a self -reward. So what

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I'm trying to kind of highlight here is that

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anything that we teach the dog with consistency

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and anything that we teach the dog that eventually

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rewards it makes it advantageous for the dog

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to repeat. And so this is where that concept

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when we first work with e -callers or we first

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work with a long line or whatever. We talk about

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how the more that you use it at the beginning,

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the less you'll have to use it later. And I often

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say something that seems very confusing is because

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I'll leave out that last part and be like, the

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more you use it, the more you don't have to use

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it. And it's like, well, that doesn't really

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make sense. But it does if you're talking about

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patterning, right? And the more that you hold

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that dog accountable. the less your dog will

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test the boundaries in requiring you to hold

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the dog accountable. Right. And I think inevitably

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like people a lot of the time will give their

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dog more freedom like too soon. They'll be like,

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oh no, they've got it. And then they unclip the

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leash and then they do it off of something that

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they haven't even practiced with before. And

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then they're like, well, I lost it. They don't

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have it. I think a lot of people don't realize,

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too, how much, like you said, you have to be

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consistent. Like the more you use it, the less

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you'll have to use it in the future. Yeah. I

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think a lot of people don't realize how long

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that actually is. Right. It's not just a week.

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Yeah. You can't say I've been using the e -collar

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for a week and. i'm good to go it's a much longer

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process and it's different for every dog a lot

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of dogs have that criminal mindset where it doesn't

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matter how much or how consistent inconsistent

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you use it it's just it's got to happen like

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you've got to use it um but yeah a lot of people

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don't realize how long right and and the way

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that we teach e -collar work right since we're

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on the subject right the way that we teach e

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-collar work is layering in the e -collar to

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the foundational communication of the dog so

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instead of using the e -collar as a negative

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only as corrections um i the science that i'm

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aware of that i've seen is we see a much lower

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efficacy across the board in e -collar work when

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it's only used for corrections versus when it's

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used proactively just like leash pressure yeah

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right e -collar on you know, command e -collar

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on dog, uh, obeys or does something. And then,

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and then a lot of people, yeah. And I, I teach

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it the same way. Like when I first start teaching

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it, it's just a reinforcement tool. That's all

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it is. It's just helping teach that command.

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Um, but like turnovers and things, people start

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to only use it as a correction and you actually

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start to see behaviors get worse or a lot of

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friction between. Both of them. So it's, yeah,

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it's mainly a reinforcement tool, not even a

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corrections. You definitely can use it as that

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correction, but. So, and then here's the next,

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the next point that I wrote down, which I would,

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I would love for you to weigh in on the tactical

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side, tactical canine side too. Cause I think

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owners can learn a lot from both sides, but recalls

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often fail. Because owners try them off leash

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too early or in the middle of a relationship

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crisis with the dog. And before we build a foundation

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or the proofing of the dog on a long line. So

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the long line is no one's. So it's a dog trainer's

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best friend, but it's no owner's best friend.

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I most. Almost every owner that I have ever talked

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to has no desire to put their dog on a long line.

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At that point, they're like, why isn't he just

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off leash? And I understand that. I understand

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it because it's an inconvenience and you got

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to police this up. You got to pull it up. It

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gets tangled. You got to run all of these things.

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But the amount of education that the dog learns

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from following that e -collar pressure. And never

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getting to mess up. Right. Right. Because at

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the point where the dog's like, actually, I'm

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going to blow this off. You have accountability

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in the most strong capacity. You're like, nah,

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no, you're not. Come back here. And you can literally

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reel them in hand over hand if you if need to

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be. So those repetitions are so, so, so important.

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Sometimes we talk to owners about that concept

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and we talk about it, but I don't know that it

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always comes through that that's so valuable.

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What is something that you've run into from Summit

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Kennels that, do you run into the same issue?

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Obviously, the people that are tuned in tonight

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are from our side of the business. What gives

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some clarity from your perspective on some of

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those things? So I think a big thing, which I

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see a lot with my clients that I work with when

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they are struggling with recall, a big one is

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timing. when whether they're on long line whether

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they're off leash marking them turning around

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and starting to come towards you you you have

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to mark that where a lot of people wait until

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that dog gets all the way to you or dogs get

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bored depending on like 30 feet like a dog can

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get bored on that way over if they haven't been

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like hey like yep yep like if you didn't mark

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that behavior they start to like oh am i doing

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it you can see them you can see the dog start

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to think so marking that turnaround and them

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coming towards you is so important and it's just

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reinforcing like hey yep that's what i want and

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then you can pay them when you get to you when

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you mark you don't have to pay right away when

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you've taught a dog what a marker is they've

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already been rewarded that is the reward but

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they just know what follows Yeah, that's a really

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good point. Yeah. And so just as a reminder,

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right, when we're talking about the markers,

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we're talking about that reward marker that says,

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good job, you did the right thing. And either

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right, there's two markers that we build into

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all of our training, we use a continuation marker

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or a terminal marker. And so we would encourage

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the continuation marker. If we're marking that

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behavior of them turning around, right, because

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we want good job, you're doing it right keep

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on going we want to continue that right and so

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that marker for us um for any of our clients

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that are listening is yes uh we use yes as a

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continuation marker and free as a terminal marker

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um so and many dog trainers do it do it differently

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um a lot of uh dog trainers will do good as a

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as a continuation and yes as a terminal um yeah

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no issue um The, um, so the marking though is

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really, really good. Why just, just lay it out,

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right? Why is marking at the moment that they

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turn around so important versus, I know you alluded

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to it with, right with the timing of the dog

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getting bored, but why, why is that kind of like

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the whole picture right there? Why is that so

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important to the dog? I think it's especially

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in the beginning phases. You are struggling with

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recall. When I'm first teaching it, like if I'm

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already struggling with a recall and say whether

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they're getting bored halfway or they're kind

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of unsure or I do, I teach all my dogs a tone

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recall. So when I'm pairing, it can be a little

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bit different or their first time on a long line,

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it's going to be new to them. So it's not going

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to be as efficient as it was on the six foot

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I just had them on. I think taking it back to

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the basics a little bit and acting like they

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don't know recall at all, marking it immediately.

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And over time we can kind of take that marker

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away from the immediate. And once they get to

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us or halfway, then market. And from there, but

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especially in the beginning phases, like I'm

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marking anything as soon as it happens. Got it.

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All right. The next thing. So owners sometimes

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call the dog for unpleasant things. And this

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damages the cue history. So when we talk about

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that, there's a lot of owners that we see that

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only call their dog when they want the fun to

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end. Dogs are having a great time. They're partying.

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They're chasing stuff. They're enjoying life.

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Our mean mom and dad come out and get involved

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and they're like, get back here, come. And at

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that point, now that recall is associated to

00:16:53.919 --> 00:16:58.340
something negative. Why, when you're talking

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about an impulsive creature, which all dogs are,

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why would that creature want to come back to

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you if they're already? they're already present

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for the party right you see it at the in the

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you're not invited to the party they're at the

00:17:13.220 --> 00:17:15.299
party yeah they're they're having the party they're

00:17:15.299 --> 00:17:17.660
not leaving they're not yeah they're like nobody's

00:17:17.660 --> 00:17:19.839
leaving the party before it's over right everyone

00:17:19.839 --> 00:17:22.140
can remember back to when they were like a teenager

00:17:22.140 --> 00:17:24.539
and they were at a party and their parents showed

00:17:24.539 --> 00:17:27.839
up and they were like oh crap And that wasn't

00:17:27.839 --> 00:17:29.779
a fun feeling. Right. Five more minutes. Five

00:17:29.779 --> 00:17:31.859
more minutes. Just two more minutes. Right. Just

00:17:31.859 --> 00:17:33.940
two more. Right. I'll be right there. It's the

00:17:33.940 --> 00:17:36.579
same concept though. Right. So if we don't ever

00:17:36.579 --> 00:17:40.819
throw the party or create the party for the dog

00:17:40.819 --> 00:17:45.259
to come and be part of, the dog's like, nah,

00:17:45.380 --> 00:17:47.039
you're boring. Even if you're not going to be

00:17:47.039 --> 00:17:48.859
the party though, it's like, let them go back

00:17:48.859 --> 00:17:50.720
to the party. Right. It's like, call them back

00:17:50.720 --> 00:17:52.619
and then be like, ah, just kidding. Go on back.

00:17:53.019 --> 00:17:54.720
Go back to the party. I was just, I just want

00:17:54.720 --> 00:17:56.519
to make sure you were still like paying attention

00:17:56.519 --> 00:17:58.960
here. And that's how we play tug. Right. And

00:17:58.960 --> 00:18:02.240
I try to teach that same concept with tug where

00:18:02.240 --> 00:18:04.819
people are like, oh, well, my dog doesn't drop

00:18:04.819 --> 00:18:07.799
it. Right. Or once they get a ball, once they

00:18:07.799 --> 00:18:09.200
get a tug, once they get whatever, they will

00:18:09.200 --> 00:18:12.859
not drop it. Right. Because when you taught them

00:18:12.859 --> 00:18:15.059
to drop or you told them to drop, then you ripped

00:18:15.059 --> 00:18:17.240
it away. And then you were like, yeah, yeah,

00:18:17.279 --> 00:18:20.539
yeah, yeah. Ha ha. And it's like, no, well, that

00:18:20.539 --> 00:18:23.519
wasn't. I wouldn't want to let go either. Right.

00:18:24.039 --> 00:18:26.380
Or you like took it away and then you're like,

00:18:26.480 --> 00:18:31.259
yeah, we're done. Yep. Well, what did we teach

00:18:31.259 --> 00:18:33.960
the dog just now? We showed them that when you

00:18:33.960 --> 00:18:37.339
let go, then the fun ends. Yeah. Well, that's

00:18:37.339 --> 00:18:40.319
not going to be very useful. So, um, or at least

00:18:40.319 --> 00:18:41.720
in the dog's mind, it's not going to be very

00:18:41.720 --> 00:18:43.460
useful for us. It's like, yeah, thank goodness.

00:18:43.579 --> 00:18:47.339
I finally got it. Right. Like just, just leave

00:18:47.339 --> 00:18:52.240
it alone. I've got whatever it was. But for the

00:18:52.240 --> 00:18:56.519
dog, it's like, oh, well, now that now it's no

00:18:56.519 --> 00:19:01.460
fun. Right. And it only takes once or twice for

00:19:01.460 --> 00:19:04.299
the dog to figure that out and be like, nah,

00:19:04.720 --> 00:19:07.960
I'm not done playing. Right. And if you're not

00:19:07.960 --> 00:19:10.579
the party, that's fine. But then your alternative

00:19:10.579 --> 00:19:13.180
is to just. their release is to go back to the

00:19:13.180 --> 00:19:14.920
party. It's like, cool, you're not the funnest

00:19:14.920 --> 00:19:16.859
thing. You don't have anything fun for them to

00:19:16.859 --> 00:19:18.940
do. You're not going to reward them real big.

00:19:19.200 --> 00:19:21.779
Cool. They come back, right back out. Right.

00:19:21.940 --> 00:19:26.200
Because sometimes what's out there is more exciting

00:19:26.200 --> 00:19:28.680
than what you are. So if you're not more exciting,

00:19:28.819 --> 00:19:32.140
then that's their reward. You've got to be. Another

00:19:32.140 --> 00:19:35.339
big one I see too is. People recalling their

00:19:35.339 --> 00:19:37.779
dog because the dog is out doing something bad.

00:19:38.019 --> 00:19:40.960
So your dog is digging or getting into something.

00:19:41.099 --> 00:19:43.680
And I've even done this with my own personal

00:19:43.680 --> 00:19:48.920
dog. Um, but you recall them over because they're

00:19:48.920 --> 00:19:51.240
being naughty and there's now there's no incentive

00:19:51.240 --> 00:19:54.960
for them because they get to you and now they're

00:19:54.960 --> 00:19:57.940
just getting corrected. Exactly. Yeah. That's

00:19:57.940 --> 00:20:00.180
definitely a big issue for sure is like nobody.

00:20:01.339 --> 00:20:05.460
Nobody, I think, really thinks or or acknowledges

00:20:05.460 --> 00:20:10.200
like practicing recall as an exercise. Just do

00:20:10.200 --> 00:20:12.900
it. Just call them in. Let them back out. Call

00:20:12.900 --> 00:20:14.880
them in. Let them back out. There doesn't have

00:20:14.880 --> 00:20:19.480
to be a purpose or a next step to your recall.

00:20:19.619 --> 00:20:23.240
Long before you need them. Right. Yeah. Just

00:20:23.240 --> 00:20:25.779
do it for fun. It should be the same thing as

00:20:25.779 --> 00:20:28.700
when we we are really big on like. Cool, have

00:20:28.700 --> 00:20:30.980
your dog go to place and relax on your place.

00:20:32.119 --> 00:20:34.180
If you're going to do that every day, why don't

00:20:34.180 --> 00:20:37.500
you do recall every day? It is because if you

00:20:37.500 --> 00:20:40.099
think about it, really, if you weren't ever just

00:20:40.099 --> 00:20:42.019
doing training drills, the only time you would

00:20:42.019 --> 00:20:44.559
recall your dog is if they were doing something

00:20:44.559 --> 00:20:48.200
naughty or they're finished playing, things like

00:20:48.200 --> 00:20:52.400
that. One of the things I do while I walk around

00:20:52.400 --> 00:20:56.039
and scoop the yard. Or walk around and do yard

00:20:56.039 --> 00:20:59.740
work is I have the dogs out and I'll call them

00:20:59.740 --> 00:21:03.480
one by one. Yep. Call them over. Throw a big

00:21:03.480 --> 00:21:05.660
party. Give them lots of pets and then be like

00:21:05.660 --> 00:21:09.660
break and send them away. Yeah. Just just constant

00:21:09.660 --> 00:21:12.299
because that's shaping. Right. I'm just shaping

00:21:12.299 --> 00:21:17.410
a command. Yeah. Right. And it's like. oh, I'm

00:21:17.410 --> 00:21:19.930
so proud of you. You came over here. Let me give

00:21:19.930 --> 00:21:22.750
you some love and some attention and okay, now

00:21:22.750 --> 00:21:24.630
I'm going to go back to being boring over here.

00:21:24.710 --> 00:21:26.049
Right, and I think it's just something people

00:21:26.049 --> 00:21:28.029
don't naturally think of, right? It's like if

00:21:28.029 --> 00:21:29.950
you want to recall your dog, there should probably

00:21:29.950 --> 00:21:31.730
be a reason or else you're just going to let

00:21:31.730 --> 00:21:36.170
them have fun. But there's nothing saying you

00:21:36.170 --> 00:21:39.589
can't practice that randomly with your dog. Just

00:21:39.589 --> 00:21:41.730
call them back and then let them go back out.

00:21:42.089 --> 00:21:45.430
There doesn't have to be this huge process. It's

00:21:45.430 --> 00:21:48.670
just Practice the same thing as if you wanted

00:21:48.670 --> 00:21:52.730
your dog to learn how to like high five, right?

00:21:52.809 --> 00:21:54.490
If you wanted your dog to learn how to high five,

00:21:54.549 --> 00:21:56.250
you'd be working with them multiple times a day

00:21:56.250 --> 00:21:57.970
to teach your dog to learn how to high five.

00:21:58.430 --> 00:22:01.069
Just build the recall and just keep doing it

00:22:01.069 --> 00:22:06.599
with your dog. Yeah. Absolutely. So then the

00:22:06.599 --> 00:22:09.440
next thing owners sometimes call. Well, so we

00:22:09.440 --> 00:22:13.160
talked. No, I'm sorry. I was off on my my cursor

00:22:13.160 --> 00:22:17.140
moved here. Distracting environments. OK, so

00:22:17.140 --> 00:22:20.460
distracting environments can overwhelm dogs that

00:22:20.460 --> 00:22:25.339
typically only work indoors. Yeah. So sometimes

00:22:25.339 --> 00:22:27.740
we have plenty of people that just don't have

00:22:27.740 --> 00:22:30.250
a lot of land. They don't have a big yard or

00:22:30.250 --> 00:22:32.529
they don't even have a fenced in yard. Right.

00:22:32.549 --> 00:22:35.009
And so, right. Yeah. They, they're in an apartment.

00:22:35.109 --> 00:22:38.450
They go outside and they just have the dog park.

00:22:38.569 --> 00:22:42.109
Yeah. Right. And inevitably those are the owners

00:22:42.109 --> 00:22:46.529
that they have worked with the recall only indoors.

00:22:46.809 --> 00:22:50.809
Yep. And when we only train indoors, then we

00:22:50.809 --> 00:22:53.809
go outside and suddenly we're in the most distracting

00:22:53.809 --> 00:22:59.359
environment that the dog has ever been. Dogs

00:22:59.359 --> 00:23:04.700
who are super smell oriented or they were bred

00:23:04.700 --> 00:23:09.019
in their genetics for hunting or tracking or

00:23:09.019 --> 00:23:14.240
trailing. Those dogs, they're just the type of

00:23:14.240 --> 00:23:17.779
dog that they are is when they're around wildlife

00:23:17.779 --> 00:23:23.190
or they've got smells. They've got. um we have

00:23:23.190 --> 00:23:26.750
like little ponds and things around where we

00:23:26.750 --> 00:23:30.269
live where we have a lot of geese right um and

00:23:30.269 --> 00:23:33.109
also like you have to go into like dog sense

00:23:33.109 --> 00:23:36.109
when you're dealing with like dogs that are unaltered

00:23:36.109 --> 00:23:38.670
and dogs that are altered there's a difference

00:23:38.670 --> 00:23:41.250
there in like the sense that they pick up and

00:23:41.250 --> 00:23:43.730
the sense that they will like follow yeah for

00:23:43.730 --> 00:23:48.569
sure but uh goose poop is a huge one around here

00:23:48.569 --> 00:23:52.650
where we do our like group classes and stuff

00:23:52.650 --> 00:23:55.549
over at this playground near our neighborhood.

00:23:55.750 --> 00:24:00.710
And I tell you what, the dogs, when the flock

00:24:00.710 --> 00:24:03.789
of geese have been through, it's like the most

00:24:03.789 --> 00:24:06.410
distracting environment for dogs just across

00:24:06.410 --> 00:24:08.029
the board. I don't know what it is, but they're

00:24:08.029 --> 00:24:10.250
like, oh my gosh, I never smelled so much stuff.

00:24:11.250 --> 00:24:19.369
Super crazy. All right. What would you say, Sierra,

00:24:19.509 --> 00:24:22.029
I'll put you on the spot a little bit, with the

00:24:22.029 --> 00:24:25.150
most common mistakes that you see owners make

00:24:25.150 --> 00:24:28.609
that like poison or weaken the recall queues?

00:24:33.349 --> 00:24:36.349
Definitely, well, calling when they're in trouble.

00:24:36.490 --> 00:24:41.069
That's a big one. But just the way, the amount

00:24:41.069 --> 00:24:43.329
of recall that they do, like they don't do it

00:24:43.329 --> 00:24:48.460
enough. they go out and about or like you said

00:24:48.460 --> 00:24:50.539
like training in the backyard training in the

00:24:50.539 --> 00:24:52.500
house like my dog recalls great in the house

00:24:52.500 --> 00:24:55.240
or vice versa i've had clients where they do

00:24:55.240 --> 00:24:58.480
all their training out in new environments right

00:24:58.480 --> 00:25:01.640
reverse they will not recall in the house like

00:25:01.640 --> 00:25:04.240
the dog will be sitting on the couch and they're

00:25:04.240 --> 00:25:07.119
like maxie come here and the dog just looks at

00:25:07.119 --> 00:25:09.759
them so same thing like you can have complete

00:25:09.759 --> 00:25:12.559
opposite It's really just a good point. Lifestyle.

00:25:12.579 --> 00:25:15.240
Yeah. So that, and that's a concept that we,

00:25:15.259 --> 00:25:17.619
I try to explain on the, on the, the science

00:25:17.619 --> 00:25:20.819
side that is called, uh, there's a word for that.

00:25:20.859 --> 00:25:24.059
It's called generalization. And so in dog training,

00:25:24.180 --> 00:25:27.180
the concept of generalization is teaching a dog

00:25:27.180 --> 00:25:31.940
that the recall is the same process inside as

00:25:31.940 --> 00:25:37.359
outside as at the park, as out back as. Sit or

00:25:37.359 --> 00:25:40.279
down is the same thing. We see this a lot with

00:25:40.279 --> 00:25:47.799
place and with, what would you say? It's place

00:25:47.799 --> 00:25:50.960
and down, I think. Down is probably the other

00:25:50.960 --> 00:25:54.700
one. Where a dog could be like, you could train

00:25:54.700 --> 00:25:57.220
down 10 ,000 times when you're on the carpet

00:25:57.220 --> 00:26:00.619
and then all of the sudden you're on a hardwood

00:26:00.619 --> 00:26:02.640
floor and you're like down and the dog's like,

00:26:02.779 --> 00:26:04.160
I don't even know what you're talking about.

00:26:05.069 --> 00:26:08.430
And you're like, what? You know how to down.

00:26:08.529 --> 00:26:10.950
And this is what makes people frustrated is that

00:26:10.950 --> 00:26:13.190
because they go out to a brewery or they go out

00:26:13.190 --> 00:26:15.990
in public and now they're on a linoleum floor

00:26:15.990 --> 00:26:18.470
or they're on a tile floor or something. And

00:26:18.470 --> 00:26:20.869
they're like down. And then their dog's like

00:26:20.869 --> 00:26:24.170
being stubborn. I'm using air quotes. Right.

00:26:24.269 --> 00:26:26.089
It's like they're being stubborn. And it's like,

00:26:26.089 --> 00:26:29.109
well, but you you've never had them down on a

00:26:29.109 --> 00:26:31.230
on a tile floor before. Right. It's just a little

00:26:31.230 --> 00:26:33.420
weird. And the dog's right. The dog's like. I

00:26:33.420 --> 00:26:35.680
never heard that word before. I don't know what

00:26:35.680 --> 00:26:40.940
you're talking about. But that is the dog compartmentalizing

00:26:40.940 --> 00:26:44.559
away from that general concept, which is down

00:26:44.559 --> 00:26:46.920
is the same here as down is there as down is

00:26:46.920 --> 00:26:49.400
there. And I just explain it as it's just a different

00:26:49.400 --> 00:26:52.480
picture. You can look at a picture, a black and

00:26:52.480 --> 00:26:54.900
white photo or a color photo. They look very

00:26:54.900 --> 00:26:58.740
different, but still the same, right? And if

00:26:58.740 --> 00:27:02.950
you're not filtering that, and it was the first

00:27:02.950 --> 00:27:05.430
time and you didn't understand the difference

00:27:05.430 --> 00:27:08.750
between color and black and white, you'd be like,

00:27:08.769 --> 00:27:12.089
no, those are different photos. But if you look

00:27:12.089 --> 00:27:14.690
at the details and the shapes and you kind of

00:27:14.690 --> 00:27:16.569
like put it spatially together, you're like,

00:27:16.630 --> 00:27:19.710
oh, it's the same photo, just no color. Same

00:27:19.710 --> 00:27:22.220
thing for the dog. Yeah. Yeah. But I think a

00:27:22.220 --> 00:27:23.859
lot of owners are just reluctant to work their

00:27:23.859 --> 00:27:25.680
dogs through that. Right. It's like they just

00:27:25.680 --> 00:27:28.460
like they see their dog not do it or they're

00:27:28.460 --> 00:27:32.339
just mildly like anxious or uncomfortable. And

00:27:32.339 --> 00:27:34.420
the owners are like, oh, they don't know how

00:27:34.420 --> 00:27:37.019
to lay down anymore. Yeah. It's like, no, no,

00:27:37.019 --> 00:27:39.359
just work. Just slow down and work them through

00:27:39.359 --> 00:27:41.799
it. Just like tell them down. Give them leash

00:27:41.799 --> 00:27:44.140
pressure. Work them. Work them through it. They're

00:27:44.140 --> 00:27:46.710
going to lay down as long as. You understand

00:27:46.710 --> 00:27:48.750
that there's nothing that's going to like kill

00:27:48.750 --> 00:27:50.890
them, right? Because I work with a lot of nervous

00:27:50.890 --> 00:27:52.890
dogs. So most of the time they're like, no, no,

00:27:52.930 --> 00:27:54.849
I'm not laying down out here. Yes, but yeah,

00:27:54.950 --> 00:27:58.390
reactive dogs. Yeah. Dogs with anxiety, like

00:27:58.390 --> 00:28:01.309
they're already going to struggle in new environments.

00:28:01.329 --> 00:28:03.269
And then you start throwing all of these tasks

00:28:03.269 --> 00:28:06.579
at them. And it's just not going to happen. Right.

00:28:06.640 --> 00:28:08.680
We had a lesson just the other night where the

00:28:08.680 --> 00:28:10.940
dog went down 10 feet away from the owner in

00:28:10.940 --> 00:28:12.819
the same room in their home. But they were just

00:28:12.819 --> 00:28:15.279
so like kind of anxious that they were like,

00:28:15.319 --> 00:28:16.660
no, no, I'm not going to lay down over here.

00:28:16.740 --> 00:28:18.259
And it's like, no, no, we're going to work through

00:28:18.259 --> 00:28:19.640
it. We're going to lay down over here. It's fine.

00:28:20.400 --> 00:28:23.160
All right. Next question. How do you explain

00:28:23.160 --> 00:28:26.359
self -rewarding behaviors so that owners understand

00:28:26.359 --> 00:28:29.859
why their dog keeps running instead of coming,

00:28:30.039 --> 00:28:34.930
so to speak? So if I'm recalling a dog and self

00:28:34.930 --> 00:28:38.950
-rewarding is recall, they don't. And they continue

00:28:38.950 --> 00:28:40.509
to do whatever they're doing. They're just self

00:28:40.509 --> 00:28:43.170
-rewarded. Right, because they don't have to.

00:28:43.450 --> 00:28:47.069
At any point, whether, well, if you have a dog,

00:28:47.130 --> 00:28:49.750
you're a trainer. Whether you don't know how

00:28:49.750 --> 00:28:52.529
that dog either does or doesn't view you as that

00:28:52.529 --> 00:28:56.069
trainer leader. But as a trainer, you always

00:28:56.069 --> 00:28:58.809
need to be in that position to be able to reward.

00:29:00.970 --> 00:29:04.150
Reinforce and correct. So when you can't control

00:29:04.150 --> 00:29:07.190
an outcome, whether you have a leash on or you

00:29:07.190 --> 00:29:11.029
have that e -collar on, your dog's going to test

00:29:11.029 --> 00:29:13.410
you eventually at some point. Yeah, always, right?

00:29:13.509 --> 00:29:16.289
They're always just like, maybe today's the day.

00:29:16.650 --> 00:29:20.430
Maybe now. Maybe I can do it now. And you never

00:29:20.430 --> 00:29:23.630
get a day off. You really just don't because

00:29:23.630 --> 00:29:28.750
it only takes one time to turn into two and two

00:29:28.750 --> 00:29:31.569
times to turn into three. And by about three

00:29:31.569 --> 00:29:35.869
or four, that habit has been like, man, actually

00:29:35.869 --> 00:29:40.450
you, then you get into this, this like the selective

00:29:40.450 --> 00:29:44.730
reward concept with dogs where it's incredibly,

00:29:44.769 --> 00:29:51.109
it builds a dog's drive. If you reward them intermittently,

00:29:51.170 --> 00:29:54.089
right? Like it makes them want it even more.

00:29:54.170 --> 00:29:57.730
If you're like every four times you don't reward

00:29:57.730 --> 00:30:01.339
your dog. it drives it just in mammals in general,

00:30:01.440 --> 00:30:05.160
right? That like 80, that like 75 to 85 % rule

00:30:05.160 --> 00:30:09.059
where if you succeed or sorry, if I flip this,

00:30:09.119 --> 00:30:14.980
if a mammal fails 15 % of the time, it drives

00:30:14.980 --> 00:30:18.779
them even harder to succeed just in general.

00:30:19.660 --> 00:30:24.160
And that comes from the fact that if in, in mammalian

00:30:24.160 --> 00:30:27.500
in the brain, if you succeed every single time,

00:30:27.900 --> 00:30:31.579
And you're rewarded every single time. The value

00:30:31.579 --> 00:30:35.359
of that reward starts to drop over time. And

00:30:35.359 --> 00:30:40.200
so the concept that they have done it, they're

00:30:40.200 --> 00:30:42.980
like, I hear it all the time. Yeah, my dog's

00:30:42.980 --> 00:30:47.680
about 80%. Yeah. That's a real dangerous ratio

00:30:47.680 --> 00:30:51.140
for the dog to fail at because it's right exactly

00:30:51.140 --> 00:30:55.480
where the science says that it builds the most

00:30:55.480 --> 00:30:59.509
drive. for the dog to do what they want. Where

00:30:59.509 --> 00:31:04.349
they're like, well, if I ignore you 15 % of the

00:31:04.349 --> 00:31:08.609
time and I get away with it, it makes them want

00:31:08.609 --> 00:31:12.970
to ignore you more. And that's why it's so important

00:31:12.970 --> 00:31:17.829
that we nail recall every time. Because it doesn't

00:31:17.829 --> 00:31:19.690
take very many times for the dog to be like,

00:31:19.769 --> 00:31:23.859
eh, actually. I really was having a great time

00:31:23.859 --> 00:31:25.900
by myself. It's like teenagers sneaking out at

00:31:25.900 --> 00:31:27.440
nighttime, right? It's like if you don't catch

00:31:27.440 --> 00:31:28.819
them the first time. If you get away with it

00:31:28.819 --> 00:31:31.059
once or twice, you're going to do it again for

00:31:31.059 --> 00:31:32.759
sure. And then if it's like you get caught the

00:31:32.759 --> 00:31:34.460
first time you sneak out, you're like, dang,

00:31:34.519 --> 00:31:35.819
I didn't get away with that. I'm never going

00:31:35.819 --> 00:31:39.839
to get away with it. Right? Yep. 100%. Okay.

00:31:40.000 --> 00:31:43.819
So the next point, building a strong foundation.

00:31:43.900 --> 00:31:48.220
A reliable recall is earned through gradual progression,

00:31:48.440 --> 00:31:52.640
consistent patterns. and high value reinforcement

00:31:52.640 --> 00:32:00.019
so where do we go with this one start with a

00:32:00.019 --> 00:32:05.200
long line to prevent the rehearsal of the bad

00:32:05.200 --> 00:32:07.700
stuff right because if they've done it once they're

00:32:07.700 --> 00:32:09.380
going to do it again and you have to be able

00:32:09.380 --> 00:32:14.210
to stop the bleeding right in order to fix it

00:32:14.210 --> 00:32:17.069
that's why we tell people who have reactive dogs

00:32:17.069 --> 00:32:19.089
and they're like my dog barks at every dog that

00:32:19.089 --> 00:32:22.410
they walk by and we're like cool step one stop

00:32:22.410 --> 00:32:25.430
walking your dog right because it's like why

00:32:25.430 --> 00:32:27.430
are you walking them why are you walking them

00:32:27.430 --> 00:32:30.349
if every time every time you go out there there

00:32:30.349 --> 00:32:32.990
i was like have you had a good walk in the last

00:32:32.990 --> 00:32:35.569
like month and you're like no then don't do it

00:32:35.569 --> 00:32:38.519
stop stop it right Don't do it again. Because

00:32:38.519 --> 00:32:40.700
you're adding to the hemorrhage, right? You're

00:32:40.700 --> 00:32:42.920
just bleeding out over there and no one's doing

00:32:42.920 --> 00:32:46.859
anything about it. Nobody. But it's easy to sit

00:32:46.859 --> 00:32:49.200
here with a microphone in front of my face and

00:32:49.200 --> 00:32:50.980
be like, well, just don't walk your dog. But

00:32:50.980 --> 00:32:53.019
then people are like, well, but what do I do?

00:32:53.319 --> 00:32:55.339
Right. It's emotionally charged. Right. And so

00:32:55.339 --> 00:32:58.400
there's no part of that that's lost on us, right?

00:32:58.680 --> 00:33:01.779
But there's so many other things you can do.

00:33:02.890 --> 00:33:04.569
Because let's just call it what it is, walking

00:33:04.569 --> 00:33:06.829
your dog. And I'm going to shut this rabbit hole

00:33:06.829 --> 00:33:08.890
down before we go all the way down here because

00:33:08.890 --> 00:33:13.230
we talked about walking last week. But walking

00:33:13.230 --> 00:33:22.789
your dog is not an effective means of exercising

00:33:22.789 --> 00:33:30.200
them. It is the most convenient for sure. I got

00:33:30.200 --> 00:33:31.980
it. And the most widely known. And the most widely

00:33:31.980 --> 00:33:34.339
known and the most adopted. Taking my dog for

00:33:34.339 --> 00:33:41.079
a walk. But dogs, even fat dogs, are significantly

00:33:41.079 --> 00:33:44.500
more efficient at walking than we are. And so

00:33:44.500 --> 00:33:49.480
it's worth having the conversation. Why are you

00:33:49.480 --> 00:33:52.299
walking them? What are you accomplishing? Because

00:33:52.299 --> 00:33:55.880
if it's truly just for their exercise, we can

00:33:55.880 --> 00:33:59.910
do other things. If it's truly just for them

00:33:59.910 --> 00:34:06.829
to get outside, we can do other things. And if

00:34:06.829 --> 00:34:14.289
the other and then the big three exercise for

00:34:14.289 --> 00:34:18.150
them to get outside and see things. And then

00:34:18.150 --> 00:34:21.050
the third one is because I like walking. Right.

00:34:22.190 --> 00:34:25.909
But that's okay. You can walk. But you don't.

00:34:26.119 --> 00:34:30.260
Have to take your dog. Yeah. Because your dog's

00:34:30.260 --> 00:34:32.699
not good at it. Right. And you're reinforcing.

00:34:33.579 --> 00:34:37.380
Over and over. These behaviors. That are driving

00:34:37.380 --> 00:34:41.380
you crazy. Yep. But you're. You're telling me.

00:34:41.619 --> 00:34:44.719
Right. You're. You're. You're saying that. This

00:34:44.719 --> 00:34:47.900
isn't working. But. You feel trapped. Like you

00:34:47.900 --> 00:34:50.320
have to do it. And that's where we come in with

00:34:50.320 --> 00:34:52.099
like. Cool. Let's. Let's talk about some other

00:34:52.099 --> 00:34:54.079
options. You don't have to do it. You don't have

00:34:54.079 --> 00:34:57.210
to do it. And. And I'm not. Saying that I'm not

00:34:57.210 --> 00:34:59.809
standing here or sitting here saying that in

00:34:59.809 --> 00:35:02.469
a way that's like. I can't believe you didn't

00:35:02.469 --> 00:35:05.570
think of this. I want to set you free and be

00:35:05.570 --> 00:35:08.309
like, no, you don't have to. You don't have to.

00:35:08.349 --> 00:35:10.289
There's so many other things we can do. Let me

00:35:10.289 --> 00:35:12.289
teach you how to play with your dog. Let me teach

00:35:12.289 --> 00:35:13.829
you how to engage with your dog. Let me teach

00:35:13.829 --> 00:35:17.269
you how to how to play. Go on sniff. Let me teach

00:35:17.269 --> 00:35:21.309
you how to, you know, work through some hide

00:35:21.309 --> 00:35:24.030
and go seek. Yeah. Right. There's so many other

00:35:24.030 --> 00:35:26.099
things that we can do with our dogs. We don't

00:35:26.099 --> 00:35:28.739
have to walk them if you got a crazy reactive

00:35:28.739 --> 00:35:31.880
dog on walks. Right. I know I'm on the full belief

00:35:31.880 --> 00:35:33.699
that like people should go through a two hour

00:35:33.699 --> 00:35:36.480
like orientation in order to adopt a dog or like

00:35:36.480 --> 00:35:38.619
get a dog. Cause it's like, we take classes for

00:35:38.619 --> 00:35:40.139
so many other things. It's like, why don't we

00:35:40.139 --> 00:35:43.239
take classes on how to like have your dog? Like

00:35:43.239 --> 00:35:45.300
some people don't have never had a dog, right?

00:35:45.380 --> 00:35:47.579
They adopt a dog. And then it's like, well, what

00:35:47.579 --> 00:35:49.909
do I do with this thing? Right. And how are how

00:35:49.909 --> 00:35:52.710
legitimately how are they supposed to know? Right.

00:35:52.789 --> 00:35:55.250
We have books and books and books and books and

00:35:55.250 --> 00:35:57.449
like classes and classes and classes and whole

00:35:57.449 --> 00:36:00.289
like entire things on like when you have a kid,

00:36:00.389 --> 00:36:03.590
this is what you do with it. Yeah. But nobody

00:36:03.590 --> 00:36:06.489
is out here screaming to the world what you do

00:36:06.489 --> 00:36:08.230
with your dog when you get it. And you're like,

00:36:08.369 --> 00:36:10.210
I've never had a dog. What do I do with this

00:36:10.210 --> 00:36:13.030
thing? Right. And what's worse is they don't

00:36:13.030 --> 00:36:16.269
even end up speaking English. So with the with

00:36:16.269 --> 00:36:19.280
the kids, at least they like. They grow up and

00:36:19.280 --> 00:36:21.239
they can like talk to you. They can tell you

00:36:21.239 --> 00:36:23.480
what they need. But the dogs never do. The dog

00:36:23.480 --> 00:36:26.360
is still just like, I'm just looking at you.

00:36:26.400 --> 00:36:27.760
Right. I don't know. I'm just trying to tell

00:36:27.760 --> 00:36:29.019
you. I've been looking at you for 10 years and

00:36:29.019 --> 00:36:31.559
I just keep looking at you. I'm never going to

00:36:31.559 --> 00:36:32.159
learn. I'm just going to keep looking at you.

00:36:32.960 --> 00:36:39.840
So I understand. I really understand the issue

00:36:39.840 --> 00:36:42.320
here, right? There's no part of this that I'm.

00:36:42.820 --> 00:36:48.130
Right. And so only saying come one time. And

00:36:48.130 --> 00:36:50.670
then guiding in with the long line. That's one

00:36:50.670 --> 00:36:54.710
huge one for me, right? It's we can say it until

00:36:54.710 --> 00:36:58.789
we're blue in the face. But if you just say come,

00:36:58.969 --> 00:37:04.929
no, come, come, come, come. The dog didn't hear

00:37:04.929 --> 00:37:06.250
you on the first one, second one, third one.

00:37:06.429 --> 00:37:08.449
You could say it 17 times. The dog didn't hear

00:37:08.449 --> 00:37:11.739
you a single time. If you are not using your

00:37:11.739 --> 00:37:14.960
leash to hold your dog accountable and show them,

00:37:15.059 --> 00:37:16.960
it's like you're working with your dog, right?

00:37:17.039 --> 00:37:19.840
You're not working against your dog. You're working

00:37:19.840 --> 00:37:22.780
with your dog, and that's what the leash is for,

00:37:22.840 --> 00:37:26.039
to show them what you are asking. And if they're

00:37:26.039 --> 00:37:28.860
going to blow you off, then you still have the

00:37:28.860 --> 00:37:32.079
leash, e -collar, whatever you're using. But

00:37:32.079 --> 00:37:35.760
if you don't have any tool, then of course your

00:37:35.760 --> 00:37:38.650
dog's going to, you know. do whatever it wants

00:37:38.650 --> 00:37:43.329
to do in that moment and to be fair like it is

00:37:43.329 --> 00:37:45.409
what it is like a child is going to do the same

00:37:45.409 --> 00:37:49.909
thing and i think we graduate dogs to adulthood

00:37:49.909 --> 00:37:55.210
far too soon when they're we're like nope they

00:37:55.210 --> 00:37:58.409
got it but you know they're ready to leave the

00:37:58.409 --> 00:38:02.369
nest no they're not they need guidance yeah for

00:38:02.369 --> 00:38:05.750
two three four years, depending on what breed

00:38:05.750 --> 00:38:08.090
you have. If you have a lab, you're like six

00:38:08.090 --> 00:38:10.349
years in and they're still like 18 months old,

00:38:10.409 --> 00:38:14.309
but hate that for you. But depending on the breed

00:38:14.309 --> 00:38:18.969
of dog, like some dogs need more than others.

00:38:19.070 --> 00:38:22.130
And I think that's where breed research and things

00:38:22.130 --> 00:38:24.190
like that come into play where you have to know

00:38:24.190 --> 00:38:27.610
what, what kind of dog that you have. right and

00:38:27.610 --> 00:38:30.630
the the concept of some dogs need more than others

00:38:30.630 --> 00:38:33.190
it's there's just no way around it right there

00:38:33.190 --> 00:38:36.070
and i'm sure that you more than others i'm sure

00:38:36.070 --> 00:38:38.309
that you've seen it and i would love for you

00:38:38.309 --> 00:38:40.610
to weigh in on it on the the tactical canine

00:38:40.610 --> 00:38:44.690
side right because some dogs need more than others

00:38:44.690 --> 00:38:48.210
right and i'm sure you probably saw it in even

00:38:48.210 --> 00:38:53.210
more pronounced um than some pet dog owners are

00:38:53.210 --> 00:38:56.170
like yeah my dog won't sit and it's like And

00:38:56.170 --> 00:38:59.510
you're at a whole other level. Right. And it's

00:38:59.510 --> 00:39:01.730
not even just, like, the breed, too. A lot of

00:39:01.730 --> 00:39:04.949
it is, like, the genetics of that breed. Because

00:39:04.949 --> 00:39:06.769
I've worked with a lot of different breeds. And,

00:39:06.789 --> 00:39:09.909
for instance, like, my Border Collies growing

00:39:09.909 --> 00:39:11.909
up, they all come from, like, working lines.

00:39:12.820 --> 00:39:15.199
constantly go go go and i've seen border collies

00:39:15.199 --> 00:39:17.300
who are perfectly fine with sleeping all day

00:39:17.300 --> 00:39:19.500
every day on the couch like yeah it's very important

00:39:19.500 --> 00:39:22.239
to obviously you can't get it with every dog

00:39:22.239 --> 00:39:24.760
but when you are kind of seeking out like the

00:39:24.760 --> 00:39:26.679
breeds and where you're getting them from you

00:39:26.679 --> 00:39:28.599
you need to pay attention to those lines and

00:39:28.599 --> 00:39:31.179
like what they've done because that is a huge

00:39:31.179 --> 00:39:34.690
part of who that dog is going to be right and

00:39:34.690 --> 00:39:37.889
i think i think the whole like adopt don't shop

00:39:37.889 --> 00:39:41.210
thing became a huge like trend too right so now

00:39:41.210 --> 00:39:43.329
we have all these like mixed breeds going on

00:39:43.329 --> 00:39:46.170
that people weren't familiar with even like one

00:39:46.170 --> 00:39:49.610
breed and now there's like 12. yep and then there's

00:39:49.610 --> 00:39:53.820
no way that you mix three four different breeds

00:39:53.820 --> 00:39:57.320
and have a genetically stable dog in any way

00:39:57.320 --> 00:40:01.079
shape or form no matter what so automatically

00:40:01.079 --> 00:40:03.380
off the bat if you have more than two breeds

00:40:03.380 --> 00:40:06.099
in the dog like you're gonna have to work that

00:40:06.099 --> 00:40:07.960
dog through things like i don't know if you guys

00:40:07.960 --> 00:40:10.099
have seen this might just be something i've experienced

00:40:10.099 --> 00:40:13.559
but with like the golden doodles oh my gosh the

00:40:13.559 --> 00:40:17.260
doodles are wild that's just a prime example

00:40:17.260 --> 00:40:19.940
i swear every doodle i have worked with has had

00:40:19.940 --> 00:40:23.510
some Major anxiety issues. I have told him that

00:40:23.510 --> 00:40:25.630
I want a shirt that says, like, doodles keep

00:40:25.630 --> 00:40:29.170
us in business. Because those doodles are running

00:40:29.170 --> 00:40:32.190
rampant around here. But that's just a perfect

00:40:32.190 --> 00:40:36.389
example of, like, the breeding. Yeah. Just know,

00:40:36.489 --> 00:40:38.150
like, that shouldn't. Yeah, it should not be

00:40:38.150 --> 00:40:39.969
a thing. It should not be a thing. It shouldn't.

00:40:39.969 --> 00:40:44.710
I know. I'm dying over here. The doodles do keep

00:40:44.710 --> 00:40:50.340
us in business, though. I'm telling you. That's

00:40:50.340 --> 00:40:53.440
so cute, though. And the other half of the business

00:40:53.440 --> 00:40:55.940
is like the golden retriever, which is half of

00:40:55.940 --> 00:40:59.599
the golden doodle. So it's like, man, those goldens

00:40:59.599 --> 00:41:01.079
will get you. It's because they're so pretty.

00:41:01.219 --> 00:41:03.920
They're so pretty. The show line golden retrievers

00:41:03.920 --> 00:41:09.699
are so pretty. All right. So top tip here. Reward

00:41:09.699 --> 00:41:13.980
at the handler, never midway. And so we can.

00:41:15.050 --> 00:41:18.070
Reward the dog with our praise during. Right,

00:41:18.110 --> 00:41:20.889
marking. And we can mark at the very beginning

00:41:20.889 --> 00:41:24.969
when they turn to us, but let them come all the

00:41:24.969 --> 00:41:28.210
way to you exactly the same way every time, then

00:41:28.210 --> 00:41:30.590
reward. Right, because how are you even going

00:41:30.590 --> 00:41:32.730
to reward halfway? Well, so I guess what I'm

00:41:32.730 --> 00:41:34.929
looking at with that would be like giving them

00:41:34.929 --> 00:41:38.030
a terminal marker halfway. Ah, gotcha. Right.

00:41:38.760 --> 00:41:41.420
So at the point where like they're on the way

00:41:41.420 --> 00:41:43.480
and then you're like break or on the way and

00:41:43.480 --> 00:41:46.340
you're like free or whatever it is. Right. We

00:41:46.340 --> 00:41:48.980
don't really want to encourage that. We want

00:41:48.980 --> 00:41:51.480
the dog to come all the way back to us so that

00:41:51.480 --> 00:41:55.659
we maintain the same pattern. Right. And I will

00:41:55.659 --> 00:41:59.039
say it over and over and over again. But if you're

00:41:59.039 --> 00:42:01.360
recalling your dog off of something that's fun

00:42:01.360 --> 00:42:07.320
and you are like, Max, come. That dog's going

00:42:07.320 --> 00:42:11.110
to blow you off. Because one, you don't sound

00:42:11.110 --> 00:42:14.190
fun. It doesn't sound like he's going to have

00:42:14.190 --> 00:42:17.789
a party when he gets to you. Yeah. And you have

00:42:17.789 --> 00:42:20.989
to pay attention to the situation and the tone,

00:42:21.090 --> 00:42:24.090
right? If you're going to say come and you're

00:42:24.090 --> 00:42:27.489
not like, Max, come! Right? The difference in

00:42:27.489 --> 00:42:29.710
that tone right there is super important to a

00:42:29.710 --> 00:42:32.889
dog. Yeah. Because if you're saying it in a fun

00:42:32.889 --> 00:42:35.369
way, then they're expecting something fun. Yeah.

00:42:35.989 --> 00:42:39.059
So always paying attention to that. All right.

00:42:39.079 --> 00:42:42.840
So we talked about what we teach owners about

00:42:42.840 --> 00:42:45.900
saying come only once. I'm going to throw out

00:42:45.900 --> 00:42:50.340
a caveat to that. Right. So we talk about we

00:42:50.340 --> 00:42:55.679
only want to say the cues once. However, just

00:42:55.679 --> 00:42:59.900
like we can say sit and then the dog sits and

00:42:59.900 --> 00:43:04.539
we can say good sit, good sit. The reason why

00:43:04.539 --> 00:43:07.579
we can say sit. while they're sitting is because

00:43:07.579 --> 00:43:11.980
they're literally sitting. And we can always

00:43:11.980 --> 00:43:18.880
pattern a movement or a command that the dog

00:43:18.880 --> 00:43:23.320
is in the process of doing. And so what that

00:43:23.320 --> 00:43:29.119
means is that we can also pattern come while

00:43:29.119 --> 00:43:34.659
the dog is actively in the process of the come.

00:43:35.920 --> 00:43:40.260
So that means we could say, Dexter, come. And

00:43:40.260 --> 00:43:43.900
as he's making movement, as he's running towards

00:43:43.900 --> 00:43:47.360
me, I can be like, yeah, come, come. Great job.

00:43:47.480 --> 00:43:51.360
I can encourage him and get real excited. Right.

00:43:51.699 --> 00:43:57.380
That's always allowed. Yeah. All right. How do

00:43:57.380 --> 00:44:02.920
we explain how? So we've explained the importance

00:44:02.920 --> 00:44:07.420
of long lines, but. Why are long lines so important

00:44:07.420 --> 00:44:12.860
to just like cap failure? One, because it gives

00:44:12.860 --> 00:44:18.179
you the length to let the dog feel the sense

00:44:18.179 --> 00:44:20.380
of freedom, right? I think that's one thing that

00:44:20.380 --> 00:44:24.239
people also don't get in the habit of is if you're

00:44:24.239 --> 00:44:26.119
going to recall your dog from four or six feet

00:44:26.119 --> 00:44:28.880
inside, things like that, the dog's not going

00:44:28.880 --> 00:44:32.079
to recall from 50 feet because you jump from

00:44:32.079 --> 00:44:36.360
six feet to 50. Yeah. And you move outside. The

00:44:36.360 --> 00:44:41.119
long line gives them those, like those invisible

00:44:41.119 --> 00:44:43.719
lines of freedom, right? It's like we move from

00:44:43.719 --> 00:44:48.099
six feet to 10 to 15 to 30 to 40 to 50. In those

00:44:48.099 --> 00:44:51.199
gradual increments. So that the dog learns, oh,

00:44:51.239 --> 00:44:54.159
at 30 feet, I was successful. Cool. Give them

00:44:54.159 --> 00:44:57.320
some more rain. Yeah. At 40 feet, I was successful.

00:44:57.500 --> 00:45:00.260
So those are the things that the long lines are

00:45:00.260 --> 00:45:02.019
going to come in handy for where people don't

00:45:02.019 --> 00:45:07.360
get a sense of. And for Sierra, I do have a question

00:45:07.360 --> 00:45:10.880
for you because I was going to say I was going

00:45:10.880 --> 00:45:13.199
to talk about our methods for making the recall

00:45:13.199 --> 00:45:16.599
exciting and rewarding. But I talk about those

00:45:16.599 --> 00:45:24.039
all the time. What are. Hello. What are what

00:45:24.039 --> 00:45:26.300
are your methods for making a recall exciting

00:45:26.300 --> 00:45:32.210
and rewarding? I love especially the toy. It's

00:45:32.210 --> 00:45:34.510
your go -to. I use like with the ball on the

00:45:34.510 --> 00:45:37.750
rope, whatever you specifically call it. Dogs

00:45:37.750 --> 00:45:40.809
who love engaging like that. I do a lot of like

00:45:40.809 --> 00:45:42.510
play drills with that beforehand, but it's a

00:45:42.510 --> 00:45:44.070
great way to start teaching fetch too because

00:45:44.070 --> 00:45:46.769
a lot of dogs don't even know how to bring like

00:45:46.769 --> 00:45:49.489
a toy back. So that's a great way too. Like I'll

00:45:49.489 --> 00:45:52.510
give them the recall command here, whatever.

00:45:52.769 --> 00:45:55.550
As soon as they come, I'm marking it and then

00:45:55.550 --> 00:46:01.800
chucking a toy. Yeah. All right. Major point

00:46:01.800 --> 00:46:04.679
number three, proofing the recall for the real

00:46:04.679 --> 00:46:08.980
world. So when we are training. For a specific

00:46:08.980 --> 00:46:12.880
command, we have to proof that command. And so

00:46:12.880 --> 00:46:16.079
a dog's recall is not really complete until it

00:46:16.079 --> 00:46:19.159
works with distractions and distance and real

00:46:19.159 --> 00:46:23.019
life conditions. Now, it is impossible to train

00:46:23.019 --> 00:46:27.000
for every single real life condition for sure.

00:46:27.099 --> 00:46:33.900
However, we can do the best that we can by doing.

00:46:37.039 --> 00:46:39.559
We can do the best that we can by increasing

00:46:39.559 --> 00:46:43.599
distractions, distance, and duration. We call

00:46:43.599 --> 00:46:47.460
that the three D's of dog training, right? So

00:46:47.460 --> 00:46:50.420
distractions, distance, and duration. Those are

00:46:50.420 --> 00:46:53.139
the things that we always try to build into every

00:46:53.139 --> 00:46:57.199
dog's recall, their sit, their down, their all

00:46:57.199 --> 00:47:00.699
of their commands, right? And there is a, for

00:47:00.699 --> 00:47:03.719
sure a process for this, but at the same time,

00:47:03.719 --> 00:47:09.059
there will always be, specific situations that

00:47:09.059 --> 00:47:12.659
you just can't plan for. One of the things I've

00:47:12.659 --> 00:47:17.019
ran into recently is horses. I have no horses

00:47:17.019 --> 00:47:20.179
here. And so I have not trained any dogs with

00:47:20.179 --> 00:47:23.079
horses, but one of my clients has horse or has

00:47:23.079 --> 00:47:26.059
horses near them. And that has recently become

00:47:26.059 --> 00:47:30.739
an issue. And it's like, cool. Well then I'm

00:47:30.739 --> 00:47:32.460
going to come out and I'm going to help with

00:47:32.460 --> 00:47:34.880
that, but we're going to use all of these same

00:47:34.880 --> 00:47:38.159
things. yeah to to work through that right right

00:47:38.159 --> 00:47:40.320
because yeah we can't prove for every single

00:47:40.320 --> 00:47:42.800
instance everybody's living situation is different

00:47:42.800 --> 00:47:45.500
we always you know we work through things like

00:47:45.500 --> 00:47:49.079
place and things like that at you know dogs graduations

00:47:49.079 --> 00:47:52.880
you know um and so those are the things we can

00:47:52.880 --> 00:47:54.739
kind of work through with people in their own

00:47:54.739 --> 00:47:58.059
home but everybody's setup is different everybody's

00:47:58.889 --> 00:48:01.190
outside yard looks different everybody's inside

00:48:01.190 --> 00:48:03.329
of their house looks different you know some

00:48:03.329 --> 00:48:06.650
people can't fit crates where you know they need

00:48:06.650 --> 00:48:10.269
to or anything like that but it doesn't mean

00:48:10.269 --> 00:48:12.190
that the same things don't apply to that dog

00:48:12.190 --> 00:48:14.030
and it doesn't mean that we have to teach something

00:48:14.030 --> 00:48:17.469
like 100 new to the dog just because it seems

00:48:17.469 --> 00:48:21.710
like it's a new instance yeah absolutely um so

00:48:21.710 --> 00:48:25.070
once once the foundation's strong we want to

00:48:25.070 --> 00:48:28.369
gradually add All of those different things,

00:48:28.449 --> 00:48:30.710
right? Add our distance, add our distractions,

00:48:30.769 --> 00:48:34.210
and slowly increase the environmental complexity.

00:48:34.369 --> 00:48:39.949
When we do our board and train programs and we

00:48:39.949 --> 00:48:43.829
do other types of programs, we want to slowly

00:48:43.829 --> 00:48:53.030
allow the dogs or allow the humans to, I guess,

00:48:53.690 --> 00:48:56.590
the best way to say it is to kind of very slowly

00:48:56.590 --> 00:49:05.170
on -ramp the the dogs into and move them into

00:49:05.170 --> 00:49:10.530
these harsher environments and what that looks

00:49:10.530 --> 00:49:13.889
like when we talk about that generalization concept

00:49:13.889 --> 00:49:19.170
we have to we have to show the dog that the same

00:49:19.170 --> 00:49:24.139
rules apply here as they did where they were

00:49:24.139 --> 00:49:28.780
when they were with us and that can that can

00:49:28.780 --> 00:49:30.760
be a process right and it's different for every

00:49:30.760 --> 00:49:36.039
dog but that's why we i guess i mean there's

00:49:36.039 --> 00:49:38.579
just no there's no perfect way to do that because

00:49:38.579 --> 00:49:43.820
every dog is going to be different right um that

00:49:43.820 --> 00:49:48.860
aside we're we're talking through the best practices

00:49:48.860 --> 00:49:51.960
there are for sure these one -off situations

00:49:51.960 --> 00:49:54.440
where Look, we're just going to have to work

00:49:54.440 --> 00:49:58.139
through it. I don't have a perfect solution for

00:49:58.139 --> 00:50:02.639
everything. And I don't want to sit behind this

00:50:02.639 --> 00:50:05.920
microphone and make it sound like I can solve

00:50:05.920 --> 00:50:09.780
every issue or proactively solve every single

00:50:09.780 --> 00:50:15.420
issue. But we can apply all of these basics.

00:50:16.280 --> 00:50:19.280
We can be brilliant in the basics and we can

00:50:19.280 --> 00:50:22.909
overcome. all of those obstacles one at a time.

00:50:24.349 --> 00:50:27.630
So using structured games, and that's what Sierra

00:50:27.630 --> 00:50:29.909
was talking about. So using structured games

00:50:29.909 --> 00:50:37.510
to build speed and, and then in using that speed

00:50:37.510 --> 00:50:42.409
as a reward itself, dogs, every dog has ADD.

00:50:42.449 --> 00:50:45.530
Just, just imagine that every dog has ADD. I

00:50:45.530 --> 00:50:50.429
know it's not exact, right? But, um, Imagine

00:50:50.429 --> 00:50:53.829
that every dog does because when they're sitting

00:50:53.829 --> 00:50:58.050
there or standing there or laying there, their

00:50:58.050 --> 00:51:02.449
brain is going. They are looking at everything.

00:51:02.610 --> 00:51:05.929
They're taking everything in all the time. So

00:51:05.929 --> 00:51:10.789
the concept that I'm going to just say, good

00:51:10.789 --> 00:51:15.730
job, you're doing good. Already that dog had

00:51:15.730 --> 00:51:19.059
like six different thoughts. about what they

00:51:19.059 --> 00:51:22.360
wanted to do with their day so we have to be

00:51:22.360 --> 00:51:26.619
more exciting than that um a couple of tips that

00:51:26.619 --> 00:51:29.139
we can do these are specific drills that we can

00:51:29.139 --> 00:51:34.260
use down the speed roll okay so restrained recall

00:51:34.260 --> 00:51:37.820
all right what that looks like is where one person

00:51:37.820 --> 00:51:42.820
takes the dog and kind of holds it lightly, right?

00:51:42.920 --> 00:51:45.500
Not, not by the leash, but literally holds the

00:51:45.500 --> 00:51:48.860
dog and someone else calls the dog. It's real

00:51:48.860 --> 00:51:52.480
excited, really excited, throwing a party, having

00:51:52.480 --> 00:51:54.780
a great time. They want the dog to come over

00:51:54.780 --> 00:51:57.480
to them and have a party with them. And you're

00:51:57.480 --> 00:51:59.460
holding the dog back. And the dog's like, let

00:51:59.460 --> 00:52:03.019
go of me. Come on. I got to get over there. And

00:52:03.019 --> 00:52:07.079
then as the excitement builds and builds and

00:52:07.079 --> 00:52:12.119
builds, you finally give a definitive come. command

00:52:12.119 --> 00:52:15.480
and the person that's holding the dog lets go

00:52:15.480 --> 00:52:18.820
of them that's called a restrained recall and

00:52:18.820 --> 00:52:22.639
the dog inevitably will book it over there and

00:52:22.639 --> 00:52:25.920
it builds anticipation in the dog's mind and

00:52:25.920 --> 00:52:31.219
it builds drive for the dog to want to run back

00:52:31.219 --> 00:52:36.659
to you to the other person all right um uh the

00:52:36.659 --> 00:52:39.559
other one that i've got is ping pong recall So

00:52:39.559 --> 00:52:42.880
you can pattern this really, really fast. You

00:52:42.880 --> 00:52:45.719
get a high value treat or toy or something that

00:52:45.719 --> 00:52:49.000
the dog really wants. You get two of them. You

00:52:49.000 --> 00:52:51.239
divide it up between two people and you ping

00:52:51.239 --> 00:52:54.079
pong them back and forth. You go, Dexter, come.

00:52:54.659 --> 00:52:57.139
And Dexter runs over there. I give him a treat.

00:52:57.460 --> 00:52:59.539
Brianna is over on the other side and she's like,

00:52:59.619 --> 00:53:02.929
Dexter, come. And then he runs over there. Gets

00:53:02.929 --> 00:53:05.429
a treat. Dexter come and he runs over here and

00:53:05.429 --> 00:53:08.110
he gets a treat and he just runs back and forth,

00:53:08.150 --> 00:53:10.590
back and forth, back and forth as fast as you

00:53:10.590 --> 00:53:14.710
can do it. Getting treats. That's another really

00:53:14.710 --> 00:53:18.570
great drill to work with with a dog. All right.

00:53:18.650 --> 00:53:21.010
We already talked about never calling the dog

00:53:21.010 --> 00:53:24.510
for punishment or unpleasant events. We always

00:53:24.510 --> 00:53:28.469
want to really protect the cues value. We don't

00:53:28.469 --> 00:53:33.789
want to devalue the cue. Right. Of come or here.

00:53:35.250 --> 00:53:41.190
All right. What would you say is the best framework

00:53:41.190 --> 00:53:44.869
for progressing from the backyard to a public

00:53:44.869 --> 00:53:48.489
space? Or from inside to outside? What's your

00:53:48.489 --> 00:53:52.809
process for building into that? I mean, I really

00:53:52.809 --> 00:53:55.369
just rep it out multiple, multiple times in the

00:53:55.369 --> 00:53:57.829
situation before moving on to a different one.

00:53:57.909 --> 00:54:01.329
But it's small steps, right? It's inside. And

00:54:01.329 --> 00:54:05.079
then it's... Not necessarily in the backyard,

00:54:05.079 --> 00:54:09.539
but I typically go to like a concrete area after

00:54:09.539 --> 00:54:12.380
that. Why do you like concrete? Because there's

00:54:12.380 --> 00:54:14.820
less smells. Yeah. When you get into grass, you

00:54:14.820 --> 00:54:17.039
got all sorts of stuff going on in there. You

00:54:17.039 --> 00:54:19.519
got worms underneath there. You have all sorts

00:54:19.519 --> 00:54:24.239
of stuff. And so you can't, you, it seems like

00:54:24.239 --> 00:54:27.860
a small step right inside to outside in my own

00:54:27.860 --> 00:54:32.050
yard, but it's a big step for a dog. And so inside

00:54:32.050 --> 00:54:36.389
to outside on concrete or some sort of like pavement

00:54:36.389 --> 00:54:40.909
is my next step. So I'll either use back patio,

00:54:40.969 --> 00:54:45.789
front driveway. And then I will move into grass.

00:54:46.389 --> 00:54:50.269
Once I have repped it out and done it so successfully.

00:54:51.239 --> 00:54:53.179
that I feel like I can move 12 inches to the

00:54:53.179 --> 00:54:56.019
right and be in the grass and still be successful.

00:54:56.340 --> 00:54:58.699
But if that dog is still like not understanding

00:54:58.699 --> 00:55:02.260
or not doing it every time that I rep it out,

00:55:02.320 --> 00:55:05.559
I'm not going to move on past it. Gotcha. Yeah,

00:55:05.619 --> 00:55:09.360
I like it. All right. So the next thing I've

00:55:09.360 --> 00:55:12.539
got here is listener projects. So before I go

00:55:12.539 --> 00:55:15.820
forward into listener projects, I'm going to

00:55:15.820 --> 00:55:21.820
open it up here for listener questions. If you've

00:55:21.820 --> 00:55:25.280
got a question, now is the time to ask. Throw

00:55:25.280 --> 00:55:27.460
them out there. Throw them out there. Let me

00:55:27.460 --> 00:55:38.320
know what you got. So far, so good on the Jeopardy

00:55:38.320 --> 00:56:03.690
music. All right. No questions tonight. No problem.

00:56:04.150 --> 00:56:09.030
If we. I was fully expecting to get at least

00:56:09.030 --> 00:56:15.210
one question. That's all right, though. So let's

00:56:15.210 --> 00:56:18.110
go into. Let me just double check. I want to

00:56:18.110 --> 00:56:25.349
make sure that I didn't like somehow mute. No,

00:56:25.489 --> 00:56:29.860
I think I got it right. I am not a professional

00:56:29.860 --> 00:56:33.119
podcaster. I try so hard, but I'm the world's

00:56:33.119 --> 00:56:36.179
hardest trier, but I'm just not always. I don't

00:56:36.179 --> 00:56:40.639
always nail it here. All right. If anybody thinks

00:56:40.639 --> 00:56:43.679
up a question before we are done here, just unmute

00:56:43.679 --> 00:56:46.340
and go for it. Go for it to ask. I'm going to

00:56:46.340 --> 00:56:48.739
talk through the listener projects. Project number

00:56:48.739 --> 00:56:52.960
one, long line recall circuit. So clip your dog

00:56:52.960 --> 00:56:56.840
into a 15 to 30 foot long line. Allow the dog

00:56:56.840 --> 00:57:01.260
to drift away on some slack. Say, come one time.

00:57:02.019 --> 00:57:06.639
Then pause. If the dog hesitates, go ahead and

00:57:06.639 --> 00:57:08.699
start guiding him lightly with the long line.

00:57:09.639 --> 00:57:14.559
Reward him at the handler. Get that reward, then

00:57:14.559 --> 00:57:21.030
free. F -R -E -E, do a terminal. Marker word,

00:57:21.210 --> 00:57:23.409
whatever that is. If that's yes for you, if it's

00:57:23.409 --> 00:57:25.449
free for you, if you're using something else,

00:57:25.469 --> 00:57:27.309
you're using a different language, throw it out

00:57:27.309 --> 00:57:31.869
there. Complete about 10 reps and keep the energy

00:57:31.869 --> 00:57:35.289
kind of upbeat, right? We don't want to be boring.

00:57:35.369 --> 00:57:39.429
And I don't mean that offensively at all. I have

00:57:39.429 --> 00:57:42.889
been there and done that many times and been

00:57:42.889 --> 00:57:45.730
boring. And Brianna calls me out all the time.

00:57:45.769 --> 00:57:49.599
This is like, I probably wouldn't. run over to

00:57:49.599 --> 00:57:51.539
you either and it's like you know what that's

00:57:51.539 --> 00:57:55.139
a good point you're right i gotta up the intensity

00:57:55.139 --> 00:57:57.539
i gotta up the energy i gotta make the party

00:57:57.539 --> 00:58:01.679
exciting yeah so keep the energy upbeat all right

00:58:01.679 --> 00:58:05.320
project number two restrained recall game right

00:58:05.320 --> 00:58:08.300
so have another person hold the dog gently while

00:58:08.300 --> 00:58:11.280
you run about five to ten steps away you don't

00:58:11.280 --> 00:58:13.380
have to get super far but have somebody hold

00:58:13.380 --> 00:58:17.219
the dog nicely not rough not hard we're not grabbing

00:58:17.219 --> 00:58:19.130
the dog You don't even have to hold the dog's

00:58:19.130 --> 00:58:21.570
collar. You can just kind of bear hug him. You

00:58:21.570 --> 00:58:28.389
know, just give him a hug. And then call your

00:58:28.389 --> 00:58:34.909
dog. Come just once. While the helper releases

00:58:34.909 --> 00:58:38.349
the dog after you call. Now, before you call

00:58:38.349 --> 00:58:41.389
them, I want you to ramp up the energy. I want

00:58:41.389 --> 00:58:44.650
you to call their name. I want you to talk to

00:58:44.650 --> 00:58:47.389
them. I want you to use different tones of voices.

00:58:47.550 --> 00:58:50.690
I want you to show them that, oh my gosh, something

00:58:50.690 --> 00:58:56.489
exciting is about to happen. And then finally

00:58:56.489 --> 00:58:59.949
say their name, say come. And then at that point,

00:58:59.969 --> 00:59:03.050
you release the dog. So that during that whole

00:59:03.050 --> 00:59:05.130
process, the dog's like, I kind of want to go

00:59:05.130 --> 00:59:06.630
over there. I kind of want to go over there.

00:59:06.670 --> 00:59:09.170
But you're not letting the dog go over there.

00:59:09.250 --> 00:59:12.130
So they can't even initiate that. By them not

00:59:12.130 --> 00:59:14.469
being able to go over there, they'll want to

00:59:14.469 --> 00:59:18.909
go over there more. All right. And then reward

00:59:18.909 --> 00:59:24.230
heavily for that speed and enthusiasm upon the

00:59:24.230 --> 00:59:26.670
arrival of your dog. So when the dog gets there,

00:59:26.949 --> 00:59:31.309
throw a party again. Make it even more exciting.

00:59:32.150 --> 00:59:35.590
Go out of your way to show your dog how fun and

00:59:35.590 --> 00:59:39.639
exciting it can be. All right. Last chance for

00:59:39.639 --> 00:59:43.440
questions. Anybody got one? I for sure have the

00:59:43.440 --> 00:59:48.519
volume up here. All right. If not, then we are

00:59:48.519 --> 00:59:52.599
going to close it out for tonight. So thank you

00:59:52.599 --> 00:59:55.679
very much for tuning in. This was episode 14

00:59:55.679 --> 01:00:00.500
of Pawprint Academy, the recall and why it fails.

01:00:00.820 --> 01:00:05.400
So if you got something to say. And you know

01:00:05.400 --> 01:00:07.659
how we can do this better. Please leave us a

01:00:07.659 --> 01:00:09.659
like, leave us a comment, leave us a review,

01:00:09.840 --> 01:00:13.340
reach out to us. You can reach out to us, email

01:00:13.340 --> 01:00:17.219
via phone, go to our website. All of those things

01:00:17.219 --> 01:00:21.320
are posted on the, on every podcast platform

01:00:21.320 --> 01:00:25.500
that I know of. So thank you for tuning in. Thank

01:00:25.500 --> 01:00:28.179
you for being here. Thank you to Sierra from

01:00:28.179 --> 01:00:33.239
Summit Kennels for being here tonight. I can't

01:00:33.239 --> 01:00:34.679
think of anything else. You got anything? Nope.

01:00:34.699 --> 01:00:36.920
That's all I got. Thanks, guys. Thanks, guys.

01:00:37.059 --> 01:00:38.000
Good night. Have a good night.