Welcome to Pawprint Academy, your blueprint to
raising better dogs. My name is Ryan, and I'll
be your host for this journey. I've got my trusty
co -host here, Brianna. Hello. And together,
we're bringing you real -world training insights
built on leadership, structure, and proven methods.
We record this podcast with live clients on the
line in one take with live, unscripted questions
and answers. At the end of the day, this podcast
is a lot more than just teaching your dog to
sit or stay. creating calmness, and becoming
the kind of leader your dog truly needs. We do
that with our three pillar method of trust, obey,
and perform. Together, we'll show you how these
three pillars shape every step of training. Thanks
for being here. Let's get started. All right,
good evening. Episode 14, The Recall. Why it
fails and how to fix it. So tonight, today, we
have a special guest joining us. Her name is
Sierra, and she's the owner of Summit Kennels.
She's a military veteran, a leader in the local
dog training community, and someone whose experience
really spans from... both the tactical canine
world to helping everyday families build better
dogs. And building better dogs has always been
our mission as well. So it seems only natural
to invite her to be part of the podcast. And
her dedication to the craft of dog training and
the impact she continues to make in our local
region makes her an obvious leader in the dog
training space and in the local area. So, Sierra,
thank you for being here tonight. Yeah, thanks
for having me. So tonight we are talking about
the recall. And this is our second series on
different dog training subjects. The first series
obviously was the puppy foundations of raising
puppies. And now we are moving into the realm
of basic obedience. Basic is kind of a loose
term, but obedience. Basic is basic right up
until it's not basic anymore. And so tonight,
the core idea that we're talking about is that
recall is absolutely the most important safety
command a dog will ever learn. And it fails when
the dog does not understand the cue. Doesn't
value coming back or it's been unintentionally
poisoned. Like the cue has been unintentionally
poisoned by the owner. Yep. And a reliable recall
is built through clarity structure and also the
rewarding speed. Yeah. And that is the tricky
part. Right. Right. Timing is always the most
important. Absolutely. So major point. Number
one in our outline is why the recall fails. Before
we even talk about exactly what to do here, let's
talk about why it fails. Owners often think that
a dog is just being stubborn. Most recall problems
come from just kind of unclear... training patterns
right um and sierra i know you um in our previous
kind of interview here we were talking about
clarity and our communication and uh certainly
i would love for you to weigh in at at some point
here on with your tie uh with your background
in the tactical side right i'm sure that recall
is like kind of a matter of life and death on
on the the tactical canine side and so um i'd
love for you to weigh in on that as we go through
here um but let's let's talk about why why recall
fails all right so many owners unintentionally
poison the queue by and and and devalue the queue
yeah by repeating whatever the command is while
the dog ignores it yep and that's with any any
command that we give kind of right it's like
we always will tell you like don't just sit there
and repeat the command yeah if they're not doing
it and you're just sitting there saying come
come come come the dog's not listening to you
yeah and the 12th time you say it they're still
not listening to you yeah So when a dog ignores
it, right, we've got to do something different.
And there's several different things to do. But
initially, the first thing that we teach owners
is that you've got to maintain accountability.
Because if you don't have accountability of your
dog, then they are allowed or they get inadvertently
allowed to weigh in on whether they want to do
it or not. And at that point we've lost control.
Yep. And then what we start to do is we reinforce
these bad repetitions for these bad reps. So
we say come and the dog doesn't come. And, and
then we're like, well, dang it. I'll say it again.
And then it just makes the process worse. Right.
And we continue down that. Yep. Cause if they
can ignore you and still keep doing what they're
doing, they're going to, if you can't hold them
accountable. For what you've asked them to do.
Yeah, absolutely. So dogs learn that ignoring
the recall still eventually results in freedom
or play or something that is positive. And at
that point, that becomes a self -reward. So what
I'm trying to kind of highlight here is that
anything that we teach the dog with consistency
and anything that we teach the dog that eventually
rewards it makes it advantageous for the dog
to repeat. And so this is where that concept
when we first work with e -callers or we first
work with a long line or whatever. We talk about
how the more that you use it at the beginning,
the less you'll have to use it later. And I often
say something that seems very confusing is because
I'll leave out that last part and be like, the
more you use it, the more you don't have to use
it. And it's like, well, that doesn't really
make sense. But it does if you're talking about
patterning, right? And the more that you hold
that dog accountable. the less your dog will
test the boundaries in requiring you to hold
the dog accountable. Right. And I think inevitably
like people a lot of the time will give their
dog more freedom like too soon. They'll be like,
oh no, they've got it. And then they unclip the
leash and then they do it off of something that
they haven't even practiced with before. And
then they're like, well, I lost it. They don't
have it. I think a lot of people don't realize,
too, how much, like you said, you have to be
consistent. Like the more you use it, the less
you'll have to use it in the future. Yeah. I
think a lot of people don't realize how long
that actually is. Right. It's not just a week.
Yeah. You can't say I've been using the e -collar
for a week and. i'm good to go it's a much longer
process and it's different for every dog a lot
of dogs have that criminal mindset where it doesn't
matter how much or how consistent inconsistent
you use it it's just it's got to happen like
you've got to use it um but yeah a lot of people
don't realize how long right and and the way
that we teach e -collar work right since we're
on the subject right the way that we teach e
-collar work is layering in the e -collar to
the foundational communication of the dog so
instead of using the e -collar as a negative
only as corrections um i the science that i'm
aware of that i've seen is we see a much lower
efficacy across the board in e -collar work when
it's only used for corrections versus when it's
used proactively just like leash pressure yeah
right e -collar on you know, command e -collar
on dog, uh, obeys or does something. And then,
and then a lot of people, yeah. And I, I teach
it the same way. Like when I first start teaching
it, it's just a reinforcement tool. That's all
it is. It's just helping teach that command.
Um, but like turnovers and things, people start
to only use it as a correction and you actually
start to see behaviors get worse or a lot of
friction between. Both of them. So it's, yeah,
it's mainly a reinforcement tool, not even a
corrections. You definitely can use it as that
correction, but. So, and then here's the next,
the next point that I wrote down, which I would,
I would love for you to weigh in on the tactical
side, tactical canine side too. Cause I think
owners can learn a lot from both sides, but recalls
often fail. Because owners try them off leash
too early or in the middle of a relationship
crisis with the dog. And before we build a foundation
or the proofing of the dog on a long line. So
the long line is no one's. So it's a dog trainer's
best friend, but it's no owner's best friend.
I most. Almost every owner that I have ever talked
to has no desire to put their dog on a long line.
At that point, they're like, why isn't he just
off leash? And I understand that. I understand
it because it's an inconvenience and you got
to police this up. You got to pull it up. It
gets tangled. You got to run all of these things.
But the amount of education that the dog learns
from following that e -collar pressure. And never
getting to mess up. Right. Right. Because at
the point where the dog's like, actually, I'm
going to blow this off. You have accountability
in the most strong capacity. You're like, nah,
no, you're not. Come back here. And you can literally
reel them in hand over hand if you if need to
be. So those repetitions are so, so, so important.
Sometimes we talk to owners about that concept
and we talk about it, but I don't know that it
always comes through that that's so valuable.
What is something that you've run into from Summit
Kennels that, do you run into the same issue?
Obviously, the people that are tuned in tonight
are from our side of the business. What gives
some clarity from your perspective on some of
those things? So I think a big thing, which I
see a lot with my clients that I work with when
they are struggling with recall, a big one is
timing. when whether they're on long line whether
they're off leash marking them turning around
and starting to come towards you you you have
to mark that where a lot of people wait until
that dog gets all the way to you or dogs get
bored depending on like 30 feet like a dog can
get bored on that way over if they haven't been
like hey like yep yep like if you didn't mark
that behavior they start to like oh am i doing
it you can see them you can see the dog start
to think so marking that turnaround and them
coming towards you is so important and it's just
reinforcing like hey yep that's what i want and
then you can pay them when you get to you when
you mark you don't have to pay right away when
you've taught a dog what a marker is they've
already been rewarded that is the reward but
they just know what follows Yeah, that's a really
good point. Yeah. And so just as a reminder,
right, when we're talking about the markers,
we're talking about that reward marker that says,
good job, you did the right thing. And either
right, there's two markers that we build into
all of our training, we use a continuation marker
or a terminal marker. And so we would encourage
the continuation marker. If we're marking that
behavior of them turning around, right, because
we want good job, you're doing it right keep
on going we want to continue that right and so
that marker for us um for any of our clients
that are listening is yes uh we use yes as a
continuation marker and free as a terminal marker
um so and many dog trainers do it do it differently
um a lot of uh dog trainers will do good as a
as a continuation and yes as a terminal um yeah
no issue um The, um, so the marking though is
really, really good. Why just, just lay it out,
right? Why is marking at the moment that they
turn around so important versus, I know you alluded
to it with, right with the timing of the dog
getting bored, but why, why is that kind of like
the whole picture right there? Why is that so
important to the dog? I think it's especially
in the beginning phases. You are struggling with
recall. When I'm first teaching it, like if I'm
already struggling with a recall and say whether
they're getting bored halfway or they're kind
of unsure or I do, I teach all my dogs a tone
recall. So when I'm pairing, it can be a little
bit different or their first time on a long line,
it's going to be new to them. So it's not going
to be as efficient as it was on the six foot
I just had them on. I think taking it back to
the basics a little bit and acting like they
don't know recall at all, marking it immediately.
And over time we can kind of take that marker
away from the immediate. And once they get to
us or halfway, then market. And from there, but
especially in the beginning phases, like I'm
marking anything as soon as it happens. Got it.
All right. The next thing. So owners sometimes
call the dog for unpleasant things. And this
damages the cue history. So when we talk about
that, there's a lot of owners that we see that
only call their dog when they want the fun to
end. Dogs are having a great time. They're partying.
They're chasing stuff. They're enjoying life.
Our mean mom and dad come out and get involved
and they're like, get back here, come. And at
that point, now that recall is associated to
something negative. Why, when you're talking
about an impulsive creature, which all dogs are,
why would that creature want to come back to
you if they're already? they're already present
for the party right you see it at the in the
you're not invited to the party they're at the
party yeah they're they're having the party they're
not leaving they're not yeah they're like nobody's
leaving the party before it's over right everyone
can remember back to when they were like a teenager
and they were at a party and their parents showed
up and they were like oh crap And that wasn't
a fun feeling. Right. Five more minutes. Five
more minutes. Just two more minutes. Right. Just
two more. Right. I'll be right there. It's the
same concept though. Right. So if we don't ever
throw the party or create the party for the dog
to come and be part of, the dog's like, nah,
you're boring. Even if you're not going to be
the party though, it's like, let them go back
to the party. Right. It's like, call them back
and then be like, ah, just kidding. Go on back.
Go back to the party. I was just, I just want
to make sure you were still like paying attention
here. And that's how we play tug. Right. And
I try to teach that same concept with tug where
people are like, oh, well, my dog doesn't drop
it. Right. Or once they get a ball, once they
get a tug, once they get whatever, they will
not drop it. Right. Because when you taught them
to drop or you told them to drop, then you ripped
it away. And then you were like, yeah, yeah,
yeah, yeah. Ha ha. And it's like, no, well, that
wasn't. I wouldn't want to let go either. Right.
Or you like took it away and then you're like,
yeah, we're done. Yep. Well, what did we teach
the dog just now? We showed them that when you
let go, then the fun ends. Yeah. Well, that's
not going to be very useful. So, um, or at least
in the dog's mind, it's not going to be very
useful for us. It's like, yeah, thank goodness.
I finally got it. Right. Like just, just leave
it alone. I've got whatever it was. But for the
dog, it's like, oh, well, now that now it's no
fun. Right. And it only takes once or twice for
the dog to figure that out and be like, nah,
I'm not done playing. Right. And if you're not
the party, that's fine. But then your alternative
is to just. their release is to go back to the
party. It's like, cool, you're not the funnest
thing. You don't have anything fun for them to
do. You're not going to reward them real big.
Cool. They come back, right back out. Right.
Because sometimes what's out there is more exciting
than what you are. So if you're not more exciting,
then that's their reward. You've got to be. Another
big one I see too is. People recalling their
dog because the dog is out doing something bad.
So your dog is digging or getting into something.
And I've even done this with my own personal
dog. Um, but you recall them over because they're
being naughty and there's now there's no incentive
for them because they get to you and now they're
just getting corrected. Exactly. Yeah. That's
definitely a big issue for sure is like nobody.
Nobody, I think, really thinks or or acknowledges
like practicing recall as an exercise. Just do
it. Just call them in. Let them back out. Call
them in. Let them back out. There doesn't have
to be a purpose or a next step to your recall.
Long before you need them. Right. Yeah. Just
do it for fun. It should be the same thing as
when we we are really big on like. Cool, have
your dog go to place and relax on your place.
If you're going to do that every day, why don't
you do recall every day? It is because if you
think about it, really, if you weren't ever just
doing training drills, the only time you would
recall your dog is if they were doing something
naughty or they're finished playing, things like
that. One of the things I do while I walk around
and scoop the yard. Or walk around and do yard
work is I have the dogs out and I'll call them
one by one. Yep. Call them over. Throw a big
party. Give them lots of pets and then be like
break and send them away. Yeah. Just just constant
because that's shaping. Right. I'm just shaping
a command. Yeah. Right. And it's like. oh, I'm
so proud of you. You came over here. Let me give
you some love and some attention and okay, now
I'm going to go back to being boring over here.
Right, and I think it's just something people
don't naturally think of, right? It's like if
you want to recall your dog, there should probably
be a reason or else you're just going to let
them have fun. But there's nothing saying you
can't practice that randomly with your dog. Just
call them back and then let them go back out.
There doesn't have to be this huge process. It's
just Practice the same thing as if you wanted
your dog to learn how to like high five, right?
If you wanted your dog to learn how to high five,
you'd be working with them multiple times a day
to teach your dog to learn how to high five.
Just build the recall and just keep doing it
with your dog. Yeah. Absolutely. So then the
next thing owners sometimes call. Well, so we
talked. No, I'm sorry. I was off on my my cursor
moved here. Distracting environments. OK, so
distracting environments can overwhelm dogs that
typically only work indoors. Yeah. So sometimes
we have plenty of people that just don't have
a lot of land. They don't have a big yard or
they don't even have a fenced in yard. Right.
And so, right. Yeah. They, they're in an apartment.
They go outside and they just have the dog park.
Yeah. Right. And inevitably those are the owners
that they have worked with the recall only indoors.
Yep. And when we only train indoors, then we
go outside and suddenly we're in the most distracting
environment that the dog has ever been. Dogs
who are super smell oriented or they were bred
in their genetics for hunting or tracking or
trailing. Those dogs, they're just the type of
dog that they are is when they're around wildlife
or they've got smells. They've got. um we have
like little ponds and things around where we
live where we have a lot of geese right um and
also like you have to go into like dog sense
when you're dealing with like dogs that are unaltered
and dogs that are altered there's a difference
there in like the sense that they pick up and
the sense that they will like follow yeah for
sure but uh goose poop is a huge one around here
where we do our like group classes and stuff
over at this playground near our neighborhood.
And I tell you what, the dogs, when the flock
of geese have been through, it's like the most
distracting environment for dogs just across
the board. I don't know what it is, but they're
like, oh my gosh, I never smelled so much stuff.
Super crazy. All right. What would you say, Sierra,
I'll put you on the spot a little bit, with the
most common mistakes that you see owners make
that like poison or weaken the recall queues?
Definitely, well, calling when they're in trouble.
That's a big one. But just the way, the amount
of recall that they do, like they don't do it
enough. they go out and about or like you said
like training in the backyard training in the
house like my dog recalls great in the house
or vice versa i've had clients where they do
all their training out in new environments right
reverse they will not recall in the house like
the dog will be sitting on the couch and they're
like maxie come here and the dog just looks at
them so same thing like you can have complete
opposite It's really just a good point. Lifestyle.
Yeah. So that, and that's a concept that we,
I try to explain on the, on the, the science
side that is called, uh, there's a word for that.
It's called generalization. And so in dog training,
the concept of generalization is teaching a dog
that the recall is the same process inside as
outside as at the park, as out back as. Sit or
down is the same thing. We see this a lot with
place and with, what would you say? It's place
and down, I think. Down is probably the other
one. Where a dog could be like, you could train
down 10 ,000 times when you're on the carpet
and then all of the sudden you're on a hardwood
floor and you're like down and the dog's like,
I don't even know what you're talking about.
And you're like, what? You know how to down.
And this is what makes people frustrated is that
because they go out to a brewery or they go out
in public and now they're on a linoleum floor
or they're on a tile floor or something. And
they're like down. And then their dog's like
being stubborn. I'm using air quotes. Right.
It's like they're being stubborn. And it's like,
well, but you you've never had them down on a
on a tile floor before. Right. It's just a little
weird. And the dog's right. The dog's like. I
never heard that word before. I don't know what
you're talking about. But that is the dog compartmentalizing
away from that general concept, which is down
is the same here as down is there as down is
there. And I just explain it as it's just a different
picture. You can look at a picture, a black and
white photo or a color photo. They look very
different, but still the same, right? And if
you're not filtering that, and it was the first
time and you didn't understand the difference
between color and black and white, you'd be like,
no, those are different photos. But if you look
at the details and the shapes and you kind of
like put it spatially together, you're like,
oh, it's the same photo, just no color. Same
thing for the dog. Yeah. Yeah. But I think a
lot of owners are just reluctant to work their
dogs through that. Right. It's like they just
like they see their dog not do it or they're
just mildly like anxious or uncomfortable. And
the owners are like, oh, they don't know how
to lay down anymore. Yeah. It's like, no, no,
just work. Just slow down and work them through
it. Just like tell them down. Give them leash
pressure. Work them. Work them through it. They're
going to lay down as long as. You understand
that there's nothing that's going to like kill
them, right? Because I work with a lot of nervous
dogs. So most of the time they're like, no, no,
I'm not laying down out here. Yes, but yeah,
reactive dogs. Yeah. Dogs with anxiety, like
they're already going to struggle in new environments.
And then you start throwing all of these tasks
at them. And it's just not going to happen. Right.
We had a lesson just the other night where the
dog went down 10 feet away from the owner in
the same room in their home. But they were just
so like kind of anxious that they were like,
no, no, I'm not going to lay down over here.
And it's like, no, no, we're going to work through
it. We're going to lay down over here. It's fine.
All right. Next question. How do you explain
self -rewarding behaviors so that owners understand
why their dog keeps running instead of coming,
so to speak? So if I'm recalling a dog and self
-rewarding is recall, they don't. And they continue
to do whatever they're doing. They're just self
-rewarded. Right, because they don't have to.
At any point, whether, well, if you have a dog,
you're a trainer. Whether you don't know how
that dog either does or doesn't view you as that
trainer leader. But as a trainer, you always
need to be in that position to be able to reward.
Reinforce and correct. So when you can't control
an outcome, whether you have a leash on or you
have that e -collar on, your dog's going to test
you eventually at some point. Yeah, always, right?
They're always just like, maybe today's the day.
Maybe now. Maybe I can do it now. And you never
get a day off. You really just don't because
it only takes one time to turn into two and two
times to turn into three. And by about three
or four, that habit has been like, man, actually
you, then you get into this, this like the selective
reward concept with dogs where it's incredibly,
it builds a dog's drive. If you reward them intermittently,
right? Like it makes them want it even more.
If you're like every four times you don't reward
your dog. it drives it just in mammals in general,
right? That like 80, that like 75 to 85 % rule
where if you succeed or sorry, if I flip this,
if a mammal fails 15 % of the time, it drives
them even harder to succeed just in general.
And that comes from the fact that if in, in mammalian
in the brain, if you succeed every single time,
And you're rewarded every single time. The value
of that reward starts to drop over time. And
so the concept that they have done it, they're
like, I hear it all the time. Yeah, my dog's
about 80%. Yeah. That's a real dangerous ratio
for the dog to fail at because it's right exactly
where the science says that it builds the most
drive. for the dog to do what they want. Where
they're like, well, if I ignore you 15 % of the
time and I get away with it, it makes them want
to ignore you more. And that's why it's so important
that we nail recall every time. Because it doesn't
take very many times for the dog to be like,
eh, actually. I really was having a great time
by myself. It's like teenagers sneaking out at
nighttime, right? It's like if you don't catch
them the first time. If you get away with it
once or twice, you're going to do it again for
sure. And then if it's like you get caught the
first time you sneak out, you're like, dang,
I didn't get away with that. I'm never going
to get away with it. Right? Yep. 100%. Okay.
So the next point, building a strong foundation.
A reliable recall is earned through gradual progression,
consistent patterns. and high value reinforcement
so where do we go with this one start with a
long line to prevent the rehearsal of the bad
stuff right because if they've done it once they're
going to do it again and you have to be able
to stop the bleeding right in order to fix it
that's why we tell people who have reactive dogs
and they're like my dog barks at every dog that
they walk by and we're like cool step one stop
walking your dog right because it's like why
are you walking them why are you walking them
if every time every time you go out there there
i was like have you had a good walk in the last
like month and you're like no then don't do it
stop stop it right Don't do it again. Because
you're adding to the hemorrhage, right? You're
just bleeding out over there and no one's doing
anything about it. Nobody. But it's easy to sit
here with a microphone in front of my face and
be like, well, just don't walk your dog. But
then people are like, well, but what do I do?
Right. It's emotionally charged. Right. And so
there's no part of that that's lost on us, right?
But there's so many other things you can do.
Because let's just call it what it is, walking
your dog. And I'm going to shut this rabbit hole
down before we go all the way down here because
we talked about walking last week. But walking
your dog is not an effective means of exercising
them. It is the most convenient for sure. I got
it. And the most widely known. And the most widely
known and the most adopted. Taking my dog for
a walk. But dogs, even fat dogs, are significantly
more efficient at walking than we are. And so
it's worth having the conversation. Why are you
walking them? What are you accomplishing? Because
if it's truly just for their exercise, we can
do other things. If it's truly just for them
to get outside, we can do other things. And if
the other and then the big three exercise for
them to get outside and see things. And then
the third one is because I like walking. Right.
But that's okay. You can walk. But you don't.
Have to take your dog. Yeah. Because your dog's
not good at it. Right. And you're reinforcing.
Over and over. These behaviors. That are driving
you crazy. Yep. But you're. You're telling me.
Right. You're. You're. You're saying that. This
isn't working. But. You feel trapped. Like you
have to do it. And that's where we come in with
like. Cool. Let's. Let's talk about some other
options. You don't have to do it. You don't have
to do it. And. And I'm not. Saying that I'm not
standing here or sitting here saying that in
a way that's like. I can't believe you didn't
think of this. I want to set you free and be
like, no, you don't have to. You don't have to.
There's so many other things we can do. Let me
teach you how to play with your dog. Let me teach
you how to engage with your dog. Let me teach
you how to how to play. Go on sniff. Let me teach
you how to, you know, work through some hide
and go seek. Yeah. Right. There's so many other
things that we can do with our dogs. We don't
have to walk them if you got a crazy reactive
dog on walks. Right. I know I'm on the full belief
that like people should go through a two hour
like orientation in order to adopt a dog or like
get a dog. Cause it's like, we take classes for
so many other things. It's like, why don't we
take classes on how to like have your dog? Like
some people don't have never had a dog, right?
They adopt a dog. And then it's like, well, what
do I do with this thing? Right. And how are how
legitimately how are they supposed to know? Right.
We have books and books and books and books and
like classes and classes and classes and whole
like entire things on like when you have a kid,
this is what you do with it. Yeah. But nobody
is out here screaming to the world what you do
with your dog when you get it. And you're like,
I've never had a dog. What do I do with this
thing? Right. And what's worse is they don't
even end up speaking English. So with the with
the kids, at least they like. They grow up and
they can like talk to you. They can tell you
what they need. But the dogs never do. The dog
is still just like, I'm just looking at you.
Right. I don't know. I'm just trying to tell
you. I've been looking at you for 10 years and
I just keep looking at you. I'm never going to
learn. I'm just going to keep looking at you.
So I understand. I really understand the issue
here, right? There's no part of this that I'm.
Right. And so only saying come one time. And
then guiding in with the long line. That's one
huge one for me, right? It's we can say it until
we're blue in the face. But if you just say come,
no, come, come, come, come. The dog didn't hear
you on the first one, second one, third one.
You could say it 17 times. The dog didn't hear
you a single time. If you are not using your
leash to hold your dog accountable and show them,
it's like you're working with your dog, right?
You're not working against your dog. You're working
with your dog, and that's what the leash is for,
to show them what you are asking. And if they're
going to blow you off, then you still have the
leash, e -collar, whatever you're using. But
if you don't have any tool, then of course your
dog's going to, you know. do whatever it wants
to do in that moment and to be fair like it is
what it is like a child is going to do the same
thing and i think we graduate dogs to adulthood
far too soon when they're we're like nope they
got it but you know they're ready to leave the
nest no they're not they need guidance yeah for
two three four years, depending on what breed
you have. If you have a lab, you're like six
years in and they're still like 18 months old,
but hate that for you. But depending on the breed
of dog, like some dogs need more than others.
And I think that's where breed research and things
like that come into play where you have to know
what, what kind of dog that you have. right and
the the concept of some dogs need more than others
it's there's just no way around it right there
and i'm sure that you more than others i'm sure
that you've seen it and i would love for you
to weigh in on it on the the tactical canine
side right because some dogs need more than others
right and i'm sure you probably saw it in even
more pronounced um than some pet dog owners are
like yeah my dog won't sit and it's like And
you're at a whole other level. Right. And it's
not even just, like, the breed, too. A lot of
it is, like, the genetics of that breed. Because
I've worked with a lot of different breeds. And,
for instance, like, my Border Collies growing
up, they all come from, like, working lines.
constantly go go go and i've seen border collies
who are perfectly fine with sleeping all day
every day on the couch like yeah it's very important
to obviously you can't get it with every dog
but when you are kind of seeking out like the
breeds and where you're getting them from you
you need to pay attention to those lines and
like what they've done because that is a huge
part of who that dog is going to be right and
i think i think the whole like adopt don't shop
thing became a huge like trend too right so now
we have all these like mixed breeds going on
that people weren't familiar with even like one
breed and now there's like 12. yep and then there's
no way that you mix three four different breeds
and have a genetically stable dog in any way
shape or form no matter what so automatically
off the bat if you have more than two breeds
in the dog like you're gonna have to work that
dog through things like i don't know if you guys
have seen this might just be something i've experienced
but with like the golden doodles oh my gosh the
doodles are wild that's just a prime example
i swear every doodle i have worked with has had
some Major anxiety issues. I have told him that
I want a shirt that says, like, doodles keep
us in business. Because those doodles are running
rampant around here. But that's just a perfect
example of, like, the breeding. Yeah. Just know,
like, that shouldn't. Yeah, it should not be
a thing. It should not be a thing. It shouldn't.
I know. I'm dying over here. The doodles do keep
us in business, though. I'm telling you. That's
so cute, though. And the other half of the business
is like the golden retriever, which is half of
the golden doodle. So it's like, man, those goldens
will get you. It's because they're so pretty.
They're so pretty. The show line golden retrievers
are so pretty. All right. So top tip here. Reward
at the handler, never midway. And so we can.
Reward the dog with our praise during. Right,
marking. And we can mark at the very beginning
when they turn to us, but let them come all the
way to you exactly the same way every time, then
reward. Right, because how are you even going
to reward halfway? Well, so I guess what I'm
looking at with that would be like giving them
a terminal marker halfway. Ah, gotcha. Right.
So at the point where like they're on the way
and then you're like break or on the way and
you're like free or whatever it is. Right. We
don't really want to encourage that. We want
the dog to come all the way back to us so that
we maintain the same pattern. Right. And I will
say it over and over and over again. But if you're
recalling your dog off of something that's fun
and you are like, Max, come. That dog's going
to blow you off. Because one, you don't sound
fun. It doesn't sound like he's going to have
a party when he gets to you. Yeah. And you have
to pay attention to the situation and the tone,
right? If you're going to say come and you're
not like, Max, come! Right? The difference in
that tone right there is super important to a
dog. Yeah. Because if you're saying it in a fun
way, then they're expecting something fun. Yeah.
So always paying attention to that. All right.
So we talked about what we teach owners about
saying come only once. I'm going to throw out
a caveat to that. Right. So we talk about we
only want to say the cues once. However, just
like we can say sit and then the dog sits and
we can say good sit, good sit. The reason why
we can say sit. while they're sitting is because
they're literally sitting. And we can always
pattern a movement or a command that the dog
is in the process of doing. And so what that
means is that we can also pattern come while
the dog is actively in the process of the come.
So that means we could say, Dexter, come. And
as he's making movement, as he's running towards
me, I can be like, yeah, come, come. Great job.
I can encourage him and get real excited. Right.
That's always allowed. Yeah. All right. How do
we explain how? So we've explained the importance
of long lines, but. Why are long lines so important
to just like cap failure? One, because it gives
you the length to let the dog feel the sense
of freedom, right? I think that's one thing that
people also don't get in the habit of is if you're
going to recall your dog from four or six feet
inside, things like that, the dog's not going
to recall from 50 feet because you jump from
six feet to 50. Yeah. And you move outside. The
long line gives them those, like those invisible
lines of freedom, right? It's like we move from
six feet to 10 to 15 to 30 to 40 to 50. In those
gradual increments. So that the dog learns, oh,
at 30 feet, I was successful. Cool. Give them
some more rain. Yeah. At 40 feet, I was successful.
So those are the things that the long lines are
going to come in handy for where people don't
get a sense of. And for Sierra, I do have a question
for you because I was going to say I was going
to talk about our methods for making the recall
exciting and rewarding. But I talk about those
all the time. What are. Hello. What are what
are your methods for making a recall exciting
and rewarding? I love especially the toy. It's
your go -to. I use like with the ball on the
rope, whatever you specifically call it. Dogs
who love engaging like that. I do a lot of like
play drills with that beforehand, but it's a
great way to start teaching fetch too because
a lot of dogs don't even know how to bring like
a toy back. So that's a great way too. Like I'll
give them the recall command here, whatever.
As soon as they come, I'm marking it and then
chucking a toy. Yeah. All right. Major point
number three, proofing the recall for the real
world. So when we are training. For a specific
command, we have to proof that command. And so
a dog's recall is not really complete until it
works with distractions and distance and real
life conditions. Now, it is impossible to train
for every single real life condition for sure.
However, we can do the best that we can by doing.
We can do the best that we can by increasing
distractions, distance, and duration. We call
that the three D's of dog training, right? So
distractions, distance, and duration. Those are
the things that we always try to build into every
dog's recall, their sit, their down, their all
of their commands, right? And there is a, for
sure a process for this, but at the same time,
there will always be, specific situations that
you just can't plan for. One of the things I've
ran into recently is horses. I have no horses
here. And so I have not trained any dogs with
horses, but one of my clients has horse or has
horses near them. And that has recently become
an issue. And it's like, cool. Well then I'm
going to come out and I'm going to help with
that, but we're going to use all of these same
things. yeah to to work through that right right
because yeah we can't prove for every single
instance everybody's living situation is different
we always you know we work through things like
place and things like that at you know dogs graduations
you know um and so those are the things we can
kind of work through with people in their own
home but everybody's setup is different everybody's
outside yard looks different everybody's inside
of their house looks different you know some
people can't fit crates where you know they need
to or anything like that but it doesn't mean
that the same things don't apply to that dog
and it doesn't mean that we have to teach something
like 100 new to the dog just because it seems
like it's a new instance yeah absolutely um so
once once the foundation's strong we want to
gradually add All of those different things,
right? Add our distance, add our distractions,
and slowly increase the environmental complexity.
When we do our board and train programs and we
do other types of programs, we want to slowly
allow the dogs or allow the humans to, I guess,
the best way to say it is to kind of very slowly
on -ramp the the dogs into and move them into
these harsher environments and what that looks
like when we talk about that generalization concept
we have to we have to show the dog that the same
rules apply here as they did where they were
when they were with us and that can that can
be a process right and it's different for every
dog but that's why we i guess i mean there's
just no there's no perfect way to do that because
every dog is going to be different right um that
aside we're we're talking through the best practices
there are for sure these one -off situations
where Look, we're just going to have to work
through it. I don't have a perfect solution for
everything. And I don't want to sit behind this
microphone and make it sound like I can solve
every issue or proactively solve every single
issue. But we can apply all of these basics.
We can be brilliant in the basics and we can
overcome. all of those obstacles one at a time.
So using structured games, and that's what Sierra
was talking about. So using structured games
to build speed and, and then in using that speed
as a reward itself, dogs, every dog has ADD.
Just, just imagine that every dog has ADD. I
know it's not exact, right? But, um, Imagine
that every dog does because when they're sitting
there or standing there or laying there, their
brain is going. They are looking at everything.
They're taking everything in all the time. So
the concept that I'm going to just say, good
job, you're doing good. Already that dog had
like six different thoughts. about what they
wanted to do with their day so we have to be
more exciting than that um a couple of tips that
we can do these are specific drills that we can
use down the speed roll okay so restrained recall
all right what that looks like is where one person
takes the dog and kind of holds it lightly, right?
Not, not by the leash, but literally holds the
dog and someone else calls the dog. It's real
excited, really excited, throwing a party, having
a great time. They want the dog to come over
to them and have a party with them. And you're
holding the dog back. And the dog's like, let
go of me. Come on. I got to get over there. And
then as the excitement builds and builds and
builds, you finally give a definitive come. command
and the person that's holding the dog lets go
of them that's called a restrained recall and
the dog inevitably will book it over there and
it builds anticipation in the dog's mind and
it builds drive for the dog to want to run back
to you to the other person all right um uh the
other one that i've got is ping pong recall So
you can pattern this really, really fast. You
get a high value treat or toy or something that
the dog really wants. You get two of them. You
divide it up between two people and you ping
pong them back and forth. You go, Dexter, come.
And Dexter runs over there. I give him a treat.
Brianna is over on the other side and she's like,
Dexter, come. And then he runs over there. Gets
a treat. Dexter come and he runs over here and
he gets a treat and he just runs back and forth,
back and forth, back and forth as fast as you
can do it. Getting treats. That's another really
great drill to work with with a dog. All right.
We already talked about never calling the dog
for punishment or unpleasant events. We always
want to really protect the cues value. We don't
want to devalue the cue. Right. Of come or here.
All right. What would you say is the best framework
for progressing from the backyard to a public
space? Or from inside to outside? What's your
process for building into that? I mean, I really
just rep it out multiple, multiple times in the
situation before moving on to a different one.
But it's small steps, right? It's inside. And
then it's... Not necessarily in the backyard,
but I typically go to like a concrete area after
that. Why do you like concrete? Because there's
less smells. Yeah. When you get into grass, you
got all sorts of stuff going on in there. You
got worms underneath there. You have all sorts
of stuff. And so you can't, you, it seems like
a small step right inside to outside in my own
yard, but it's a big step for a dog. And so inside
to outside on concrete or some sort of like pavement
is my next step. So I'll either use back patio,
front driveway. And then I will move into grass.
Once I have repped it out and done it so successfully.
that I feel like I can move 12 inches to the
right and be in the grass and still be successful.
But if that dog is still like not understanding
or not doing it every time that I rep it out,
I'm not going to move on past it. Gotcha. Yeah,
I like it. All right. So the next thing I've
got here is listener projects. So before I go
forward into listener projects, I'm going to
open it up here for listener questions. If you've
got a question, now is the time to ask. Throw
them out there. Throw them out there. Let me
know what you got. So far, so good on the Jeopardy
music. All right. No questions tonight. No problem.
If we. I was fully expecting to get at least
one question. That's all right, though. So let's
go into. Let me just double check. I want to
make sure that I didn't like somehow mute. No,
I think I got it right. I am not a professional
podcaster. I try so hard, but I'm the world's
hardest trier, but I'm just not always. I don't
always nail it here. All right. If anybody thinks
up a question before we are done here, just unmute
and go for it. Go for it to ask. I'm going to
talk through the listener projects. Project number
one, long line recall circuit. So clip your dog
into a 15 to 30 foot long line. Allow the dog
to drift away on some slack. Say, come one time.
Then pause. If the dog hesitates, go ahead and
start guiding him lightly with the long line.
Reward him at the handler. Get that reward, then
free. F -R -E -E, do a terminal. Marker word,
whatever that is. If that's yes for you, if it's
free for you, if you're using something else,
you're using a different language, throw it out
there. Complete about 10 reps and keep the energy
kind of upbeat, right? We don't want to be boring.
And I don't mean that offensively at all. I have
been there and done that many times and been
boring. And Brianna calls me out all the time.
This is like, I probably wouldn't. run over to
you either and it's like you know what that's
a good point you're right i gotta up the intensity
i gotta up the energy i gotta make the party
exciting yeah so keep the energy upbeat all right
project number two restrained recall game right
so have another person hold the dog gently while
you run about five to ten steps away you don't
have to get super far but have somebody hold
the dog nicely not rough not hard we're not grabbing
the dog You don't even have to hold the dog's
collar. You can just kind of bear hug him. You
know, just give him a hug. And then call your
dog. Come just once. While the helper releases
the dog after you call. Now, before you call
them, I want you to ramp up the energy. I want
you to call their name. I want you to talk to
them. I want you to use different tones of voices.
I want you to show them that, oh my gosh, something
exciting is about to happen. And then finally
say their name, say come. And then at that point,
you release the dog. So that during that whole
process, the dog's like, I kind of want to go
over there. I kind of want to go over there.
But you're not letting the dog go over there.
So they can't even initiate that. By them not
being able to go over there, they'll want to
go over there more. All right. And then reward
heavily for that speed and enthusiasm upon the
arrival of your dog. So when the dog gets there,
throw a party again. Make it even more exciting.
Go out of your way to show your dog how fun and
exciting it can be. All right. Last chance for
questions. Anybody got one? I for sure have the
volume up here. All right. If not, then we are
going to close it out for tonight. So thank you
very much for tuning in. This was episode 14
of Pawprint Academy, the recall and why it fails.
So if you got something to say. And you know
how we can do this better. Please leave us a
like, leave us a comment, leave us a review,
reach out to us. You can reach out to us, email
via phone, go to our website. All of those things
are posted on the, on every podcast platform
that I know of. So thank you for tuning in. Thank
you for being here. Thank you to Sierra from
Summit Kennels for being here tonight. I can't
think of anything else. You got anything? Nope.
That's all I got. Thanks, guys. Thanks, guys.
Good night. Have a good night.