WEBVTT

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Welcome to Pawprint Academy, your blueprint to

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raising better dogs. My name is Ryan, and I am

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your host, alongside my co -host, Brianna. Hi.

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And together, we're bringing you real -world

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training insights built on leadership, structure,

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and proven methods. But this show is a lot more

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than just teaching your dog to sit or stay. It's

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about building trust, creating calmness, and

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becoming the kind of leader that your dog truly

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needs. We do that with our three -pillar method

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of trust, obey, and perform. Thanks for being

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here on this journey with us. Let's get started.

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Hey there, welcome to episode four, affection

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versus leadership. How too much love creates

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chaos. Good evening, everybody. This is Ryan.

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I am joined today. We've got a full house in

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here. We've got Brianna on the mic. Hello. Hello.

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Now we have Brianna on the mic. Here I am. And

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we've got Melody. Hi. And we've also got Nick.

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How's it going? So tonight, Nick is our guest

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and our guest co -host tonight. He brings years

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and years of military working dog experience

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from a couple of different, I guess, like individual...

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Nick, you got to jump on the mic before I butcher

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this. So no worries. A lot of like individual

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areas within the military, right? But I would

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love for you to kind of explain your background

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before I end up going down three different rabbit

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holes at once and get stuck in all of them. No,

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no worries. Absolutely. So long story short,

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my background started back in 2017 as a working

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dog handler. I'm in the Marine Corps and I've

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been Like I said, a military working dog handler

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since 2017. And then I have been, I'm a former

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special operations multipurpose canine handler

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as well. Throughout my tenure, I've been working

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with, you know, specialized search dogs, which

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are, you know, single purpose dogs that they

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only work for explosive detection. I've also

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worked with patrol dogs, bomb dogs, excuse me,

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I'm sorry. drug dogs and then uh tracking dogs

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as well uh tracking actually is one of my one

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of my favorite things that i've had to do because

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that's a that's a pretty it's a pretty cool uh

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pretty cool skill set pretty cool to see the

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dogs you know actually like get into that like

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you know genetics and like they're just natural

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like desire to go and find something so Awesome.

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So I'm going to try to kind of drive this forward,

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but really encompass it like I want you to jump

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in because there's a lot of these things. So

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we obviously focus on pet dogs and a lot of the

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leadership and things that we try to cover in

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the in Pawprint Academy is really geared towards

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those pet dogs. But I think what's really cool

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about having you on is going to be. how interrelated

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leadership is and these intangible skills that

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we try to teach dogs. It's not just sit down,

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stay calm, but those things that build the temperament

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of the dog, the confidence of the dog and build

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the relationship where you, you have a dog that

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wants to listen to you. And I feel like we're

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more important to have a dog that wants to listen

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to you than when like, it's like mission critical

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and like people, you know, lives are on the line.

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It's a lot different than like, my dog will not

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come in from going to the bathroom and I cannot

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get them to come back in through the store. Cause

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to those dogs even like sit and down. I mean,

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like, is there a reason? I don't know. Um, well,

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I mean, yeah, I think, I think they're definitely

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all interconnected. And I mean, as we, uh, as

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we dive into this, uh, I think there's going

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to be a lot of, uh, correlations between both

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the pet side and the working dog side. So, uh,

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looking forward to that. So I am for, for sure

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are going to have a couple of questions along

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the way. And so I'll try to kind of address those

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to you or to the trainers as we go. I have a

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kind of a, a good outline for the, uh, the episode,

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but, uh, as you see, uh, these interrelated things

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that like pop up, I would love for you to just

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jump in and, and, uh, and own that space. Sounds

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good. Cause you definitely have like the experience

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to do that. Um, also, so Melody's back. Um, so

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this is Melody's first appearance on the official

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podcast for paw print Academy, but, uh, she is

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a regular, um, around here. She has just been

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crazy busy with a whole bunch of different pet

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sitting and, and dog training, different places

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and things like that. So that's a market, right?

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I mean, you could run an entire business. Yeah.

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Really? Apparently. Wow. Cause I think kids go

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back to school and then everyone's like, let's

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get in our last vacations now. I don't know what

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it is, but September. Yeah. Nice. So Melody works

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for the company, but she does her, she kind of

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does her own like. in -home and in -house pet

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sitting for dogs that either their owners don't

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want them, maybe the dog's reactive, maybe the

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dog has special needs, maybe the dog has special

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medication or whatever, or their owners don't

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want them to go to a traditional kennel space

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or something like that, right? Yeah, yeah. So

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she's never here. I'm never here, but I'll be

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here more in October. Cool. So we'll get you

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on some more of those episodes. But all right.

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So that kind of catches us up to where we are.

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So the core idea for tonight, talking about affection

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versus leadership. And it's a concept that we

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have touched on before, but definitely not to

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the degree we're going to talk about it tonight.

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So our core idea. for this evening is that love

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alone does not raise a balanced dog and you can

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this is gonna right you fight me on this but

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you can over love your dog and not build the

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relationship that you think you're building right

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so at no point am i sitting here and telling

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you that Well, you can over love your dog and

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then just the love is going to make your dog

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explode or something bad is going to happen because

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of it. No, it's more of the lost opportunity

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that you could be using that love and affection

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to build your relationship in a way that like

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makes sense to your dog and builds clarity. And

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a lot of times when we use affection, how humans

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interact and how humans like to receive affection.

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dogs don't always respond to that in the same

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way, right? And so dogs aren't always going to

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get the same message out of that. And so without

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leadership, affection often ends up fueling this

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like byproduct, which turns into anxiety, let

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alone like entitlement. And then that kind of

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segues into just like chaos in the home. And

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that comes from this lack of these, this foundation.

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So tonight we're going to talk about how we can

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still love our dogs and we can still throw affection

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at them and we can still, we can still flood

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them with affection. But if we just do a couple

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of things first and build off of that, then the

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affection amplifies our relationship with those

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dogs rather than detracts from it. All right.

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So, Major point number one on my outline. I am

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going to try to keep myself reined in because

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I want to go down all these different rabbit

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holes. But affection without boundaries creates

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confusion. Now, with boundaries, boundaries we've

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talked about before and boundaries will always

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be those left and right limits that keep the

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dog knowing that and being confident that they

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can perform the way that. is appropriate and

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in a way that you want them to right without

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boundaries the dog is just you know just whiffing

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the the the baseball bat and and whiffing at

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the ball and maybe they hit a home run sometimes

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maybe they get a single and maybe they just strike

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out and we want to try to build something that

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the dog can be confident in right from the get

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-go um and so with that right dogs need clarity

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more than they need constant praise or petting

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i would assume so um before we really go down

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the trainer route with this right nick i want

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to ask you i well so first of all on the working

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dog side like do you guys even use affection

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is there even is there affection that comes into

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play absolutely in this because i'm pretty sure

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that most people have in their heads that like

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oh military working dog no no you don't like

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those are not those are those are like uh x over

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the the cuddle no yeah it's a absolutely true

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on that uh you know thought process uh however

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it is very uh yeah it is quite contrary um you

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know in specific my dog uh he had When I first

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got him, he had such a severe outing issue that,

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and he didn't really care for food. We even tried,

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you know, withholding food for a little bit of

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time before we did. And we tried to use that

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as rewarding or as a reward for him. And, you

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know, he didn't really care for that. It wasn't

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really, you know, getting that target behavior

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that, you know, it wasn't reinforcing the target

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behavior at the time. So what I found was that

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for the first few months that I had my dog, he

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actually was. solely on a physical praise um

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and that kind of goes into like you know your

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primary and secondary reinforcements primary

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you know being food water shelter sex um and

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then your secondary reinforcements you know that's

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where like the toys food and praise comes in

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or like in physical praise comes into play and

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um on the working dog side of things like it's

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it's a constant flow of you know hey like where's

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this where's the hierarchy of rewards here and

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which which reward honestly just fits the fits

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the behavior and then fits the target like as,

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as much as possible. Because, you know, like

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when, you know, when we're doing a shoot house,

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I want my dog to be calm and level headed. So

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if I'm trying to give my dog a Kong, you know,

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I give my dog a Kong and the next thing, you

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know, he drops it and now it's flying all over

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the place. He's on a hip lead and getting dragged.

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I'm getting dragged all over the place. Um, you

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know, food. Yeah. I can keep food on me, but

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you know, it's just imagining like breaking down

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a door and shooting in a house and then like

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throwing a Kong for your dog. They're so annoying.

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yeah they are that's a it's definitely something

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for sure um but yeah so a lot of times i uh you

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know me specifically everyone has you know as

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everyone knows there's a thousand different ways

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to do this uh me in specific though i do enjoy

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you know using physical praise for a more level

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-headed um you know uh reinforcement because

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it does and it calm breeds calm and so because

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food's a stimulant right okay that's where i

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was going with that It's like say it louder for

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those in the back. Food is a stimulant. Right.

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And so we on the on the less serious side, when

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we're teaching a dog to walk next to you, we

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are we oftentimes try to do that completely food

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less. Right. Yeah. Just using reinforcing words

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and using real low. uh, energy amounts of praise

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in order to keep the dog kind of focused on what's

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going on versus like amping them up. So, um,

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but right. Just picturing that whole thing in

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my head. I'm like, right. You are, I'm sure amping

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this dog up to the max already. The dog's through

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the roof. Last thing you need is a Kong coming

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out and just all right. So I thought I immediately

00:13:28.419 --> 00:13:32.279
went back to golden retrievers that we had in,

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in pairs. And, The boy, like he was so overstimulated

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all the time. Like we couldn't even use food

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in half his situations because he was just, it

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was chaos. Right. And we couldn't, we couldn't

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use affection either. Right. You couldn't use

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anything because he was just living life and

00:13:49.769 --> 00:13:52.490
loved everything. Full golden. And so, right.

00:13:52.590 --> 00:13:55.470
All the time. And then his sister, on the other

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hand, it's like, you try to give her food, you

00:13:57.950 --> 00:13:59.529
try to give her something, but you know what?

00:13:59.830 --> 00:14:03.720
Ball. Every time. You pull out a ball. Ball was

00:14:03.720 --> 00:14:09.419
her entire life. Yeah. No. Uh, so, so dogs need

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clarity. And how would you say in, right. To

00:14:15.740 --> 00:14:19.139
kind of keep the, to like reign this in, in your

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environment and kind of the environment that

00:14:21.019 --> 00:14:23.580
you just talked about, like, how do you, how

00:14:23.580 --> 00:14:25.940
do you even keep clarity in a, in a situation,

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in a situation like that? I know we're going

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to go a little bit off of the, the affection

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versus leadership, but I feel like in that moment,

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It's you're looking for mostly leadership and

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a lot of clarity. Yeah. So, I mean, it honestly,

00:14:37.559 --> 00:14:39.259
everything is, you know, each and every one of

00:14:39.259 --> 00:14:41.220
us know here, it's, it comes down to the foundational

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skill sets and the, uh, the amount of time you

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put into the training itself, because, uh, you

00:14:46.259 --> 00:14:48.440
know, before you're able to introduce all these

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different, you know, distractions and different

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variables, having that solid foundation. And

00:14:53.519 --> 00:14:55.720
as you were talking about earlier, just having

00:14:55.720 --> 00:14:58.580
that differentiation of like, Hey, praise versus

00:14:58.580 --> 00:15:02.529
play versus, uh, just simply. just just having

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a left and right lateral limits on where to go

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and how to how to comprehend things because like

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dogs don't speak english they don't speak spanish

00:15:09.289 --> 00:15:11.289
they don't speak any other language they go off

00:15:11.289 --> 00:15:14.029
of physical and kind of verbal cues that you

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know that we give to them so uh just having solid

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foundations really like going straight down to

00:15:19.789 --> 00:15:23.129
that yeah and so when we when we talk about foundation

00:15:23.129 --> 00:15:27.049
in you know, family dog training, we're always

00:15:27.049 --> 00:15:29.090
talking about like leading from the front and,

00:15:29.110 --> 00:15:31.730
and showing the dog clear communication, like

00:15:31.730 --> 00:15:34.450
standing still while you use a verbal cue and

00:15:34.450 --> 00:15:37.809
then moving to reinforce it versus moving and

00:15:37.809 --> 00:15:40.590
talking and rewarding and touching the dog all

00:15:40.590 --> 00:15:43.350
at the same time. So yeah, that a hundred percent

00:15:43.350 --> 00:15:46.769
that, that, that is how we, I mean, we. build

00:15:46.769 --> 00:15:49.350
clarity kind of the same way, but probably to

00:15:49.350 --> 00:15:51.690
a significantly lesser degree. It's all, it's

00:15:51.690 --> 00:15:53.029
all through. I was actually just having this

00:15:53.029 --> 00:15:54.870
conversation earlier with someone else about,

00:15:54.990 --> 00:15:59.009
about pets is dogs are all dogs just, you know,

00:15:59.009 --> 00:16:01.990
to, to each, to each their own. And, you know,

00:16:01.990 --> 00:16:03.570
it's, it's kind of the same as people, you know,

00:16:03.590 --> 00:16:06.629
everyone has different ceilings, so to say, don't

00:16:06.629 --> 00:16:08.230
get me wrong. Everyone, everyone and every dog

00:16:08.230 --> 00:16:10.490
is capable of, you know, achieving amazing things,

00:16:10.509 --> 00:16:13.169
but each and every dog, you know, there's, there's

00:16:13.169 --> 00:16:15.629
so many dogs that try to get into the military

00:16:15.629 --> 00:16:19.330
every year. And, uh, most dogs don't have the,

00:16:19.350 --> 00:16:21.870
they just don't have the genetics to, you know,

00:16:21.870 --> 00:16:25.769
make it. And it's to no, no fault of their own.

00:16:25.809 --> 00:16:27.590
There's, I bet there's a few pets out there that

00:16:27.590 --> 00:16:30.509
could probably do it as well. Um, but it's, it

00:16:30.509 --> 00:16:32.049
really comes down to genetics on that aspect

00:16:32.049 --> 00:16:34.649
too. Right. Cause they test them so early that

00:16:34.649 --> 00:16:36.750
like the immediate signs, if they have it, they're

00:16:36.750 --> 00:16:39.500
like, nope. Yeah. We can't have it. There's,

00:16:39.500 --> 00:16:41.179
there's, there's tests out there that, you know,

00:16:41.179 --> 00:16:43.019
you could literally look at the dog, give it

00:16:43.019 --> 00:16:44.919
10 seconds and you could tell if that dog has

00:16:44.919 --> 00:16:48.139
it or not. Yeah. To a small extent, not, not

00:16:48.139 --> 00:16:52.940
the fullest, but yeah. All right. So, um, how

00:16:52.940 --> 00:16:56.620
about timing? Right. We're, we'll go kind of

00:16:56.620 --> 00:17:00.159
back to the affection side, but, um, as I'm kind

00:17:00.159 --> 00:17:03.360
of like picturing all this, the timing of your

00:17:03.360 --> 00:17:07.150
reward and, uh, as you were working with your

00:17:07.150 --> 00:17:09.349
dog right the timing of that affection is like

00:17:09.349 --> 00:17:11.990
supremely important right timing is everything

00:17:11.990 --> 00:17:16.349
so right and so you're using it as a as a reinforcer

00:17:16.349 --> 00:17:18.390
for whatever it is that you're trying to do uh

00:17:18.390 --> 00:17:22.390
in my point um i think that we often use affection

00:17:22.390 --> 00:17:26.789
because we're using it like for a normal dog

00:17:26.789 --> 00:17:29.690
owner sitting at home with their dog we use affection

00:17:29.690 --> 00:17:35.950
in the same way that like a human would like

00:17:35.950 --> 00:17:39.690
affection right and so petting and cuddling and

00:17:39.690 --> 00:17:41.269
all of those things that's like the affection

00:17:41.269 --> 00:17:45.309
that we're talking about and when we give that

00:17:45.309 --> 00:17:49.990
sometimes we get off on the timing and so we

00:17:49.990 --> 00:17:54.349
inadvertently reinforce the wrong message to

00:17:54.349 --> 00:17:56.950
the dog and so that's what we're like kind of

00:17:56.950 --> 00:17:59.549
going to go talk about here um because i think

00:17:59.549 --> 00:18:04.220
that rewarding even using affection And, and

00:18:04.220 --> 00:18:06.440
you used it very successfully with your dog is

00:18:06.440 --> 00:18:07.980
what you were talking about. But if you would

00:18:07.980 --> 00:18:10.599
have used it at the wrong time, it wouldn't have

00:18:10.599 --> 00:18:13.579
been useful. Oh, absolutely not. So on the pet

00:18:13.579 --> 00:18:18.299
dog side, we often do it when like for a reactive

00:18:18.299 --> 00:18:20.519
dog, when the dog gets scared. Yeah. Dog gets

00:18:20.519 --> 00:18:23.839
scared of something and we scoop them up and

00:18:23.839 --> 00:18:25.819
oh, there, there, there. It's okay. It's okay.

00:18:25.900 --> 00:18:30.779
It's okay. And we have just created a reinforcing

00:18:30.779 --> 00:18:34.690
event to what it was. that they were just scared

00:18:34.690 --> 00:18:37.490
of or worried about or upset about. Right. Gabe's

00:18:37.490 --> 00:18:40.569
like the prime example at a dog group like two

00:18:40.569 --> 00:18:43.809
weeks ago. Somebody, he got scared because all

00:18:43.809 --> 00:18:45.710
the dogs started barking at the ice cream truck

00:18:45.710 --> 00:18:48.190
and he doesn't bark. So he was just terrified

00:18:48.190 --> 00:18:50.599
that everybody else was barking. And then for

00:18:50.599 --> 00:18:53.619
the rest of the class, he was so weird and thrown

00:18:53.619 --> 00:18:55.940
off. And he was like shaking and couldn't get

00:18:55.940 --> 00:18:58.059
out of his own head because the dog's barking.

00:18:58.180 --> 00:19:01.460
He hates other dogs barking. And he kept trying

00:19:01.460 --> 00:19:04.940
to cuddle up next to me and like touch my legs.

00:19:05.059 --> 00:19:06.619
And it's because he didn't really want to look

00:19:06.619 --> 00:19:08.599
at me or pay attention to me. But he wanted to

00:19:08.599 --> 00:19:11.000
know that I was like there. And I kept nudging

00:19:11.000 --> 00:19:14.039
him away. And not that he was so far away from

00:19:14.039 --> 00:19:15.559
me, but I was like, you're not going to lean

00:19:15.559 --> 00:19:18.339
on me. And I remember somebody, I think it might

00:19:18.339 --> 00:19:19.980
have been Lila, was like, why do you keep doing

00:19:19.980 --> 00:19:22.000
that? And I was like, because he's trying to

00:19:22.000 --> 00:19:24.720
find security in me, and I want him to feel confident.

00:19:24.759 --> 00:19:27.500
There's nothing going on. We're in a dog club.

00:19:27.640 --> 00:19:30.039
He's been here every time. An ice cream truck

00:19:30.039 --> 00:19:32.660
came by, threw all the dogs off. They barked.

00:19:32.920 --> 00:19:35.640
It's nothing to be scared of. And if in that

00:19:35.640 --> 00:19:37.859
moment, like I would coddle him and be like,

00:19:37.900 --> 00:19:40.259
it's okay. Or start petting him, showing him

00:19:40.259 --> 00:19:42.140
affection. I'm teaching him that. It's a change

00:19:42.140 --> 00:19:44.779
in body language. Right. Whatever he's trembling

00:19:44.779 --> 00:19:49.240
from, it's okay to do that when it's completely

00:19:49.240 --> 00:19:52.640
not. Yeah, exactly. I think, I think, uh, I wasn't

00:19:52.640 --> 00:19:54.799
at this, at this, uh, you know, uh, group session.

00:19:55.420 --> 00:19:57.359
But I definitely think, you know, in situations

00:19:57.359 --> 00:19:59.359
like that, because, you know, dealing with explosive

00:19:59.359 --> 00:20:01.140
breaching, a lot of times we could have some

00:20:01.140 --> 00:20:02.839
dogs that do get a little fearful from that.

00:20:03.140 --> 00:20:06.039
So it's weird. Yeah. It's one of the things that

00:20:06.039 --> 00:20:08.759
we do try to, you know. It sounds loud. It's

00:20:08.759 --> 00:20:12.200
a bomb going off. No big deal. But one of the

00:20:12.200 --> 00:20:13.960
things that we do, though, is we do try to offer

00:20:13.960 --> 00:20:16.359
replacement behaviors in place of that. If they're

00:20:16.359 --> 00:20:18.940
shying away from it, you know, trying to just

00:20:18.940 --> 00:20:20.980
introduce something fun into the environment

00:20:20.980 --> 00:20:23.150
that's going to make that dog. less reactive

00:20:23.150 --> 00:20:25.369
over that, you know, that negative stimulus,

00:20:25.609 --> 00:20:27.690
you know, just counter conditioning, whatever

00:20:27.690 --> 00:20:31.349
that, you know. negative thing is uh whatever

00:20:31.349 --> 00:20:33.230
whatever you know in this case it's the it's

00:20:33.230 --> 00:20:35.029
the dog's barking or the ice cream truck i don't

00:20:35.029 --> 00:20:36.289
know why you'd be scared of an ice cream truck

00:20:36.289 --> 00:20:38.470
all right he doesn't know what the song means

00:20:38.470 --> 00:20:41.349
yeah i know he's never gotten anything from there

00:20:41.349 --> 00:20:44.170
dog needs a pup cup yeah it was louder than the

00:20:44.170 --> 00:20:46.009
music in his head funny enough i've offered him

00:20:46.009 --> 00:20:47.869
pup cups it's like the one thing he won't eat

00:20:47.869 --> 00:20:50.230
he's like i'm not touching it it's it's weird

00:20:50.230 --> 00:20:54.109
but yeah no it's uh it's one of those things

00:20:54.109 --> 00:20:55.930
like we do that we have to do that a lot in our

00:20:55.930 --> 00:20:58.569
line of work so yeah so another thing was last

00:20:58.640 --> 00:21:01.200
Last weekend, we went to, like, a food truck

00:21:01.200 --> 00:21:03.500
rodeo at a big park, and he hates, like, food

00:21:03.500 --> 00:21:04.940
trucks because they have the big generators on

00:21:04.940 --> 00:21:06.319
the back, and there were, like, a ton of people

00:21:06.319 --> 00:21:08.839
there. A lot of noises. There's music and, yeah,

00:21:08.900 --> 00:21:12.359
just lots going on. And never three years ago

00:21:12.359 --> 00:21:14.960
would I have ever taken him to, like, an event.

00:21:15.000 --> 00:21:17.420
But I had three dogs to choose from, and I was

00:21:17.420 --> 00:21:20.180
like, I'm going to bring Gabe. And brought him,

00:21:20.339 --> 00:21:22.920
and he found French fries on the ground, and

00:21:22.920 --> 00:21:26.740
French fries are his lifelong love. He loves

00:21:26.740 --> 00:21:28.920
french fries. And so what did I do? I just started

00:21:28.920 --> 00:21:30.980
sprinkling food all over the ground while we

00:21:30.980 --> 00:21:33.220
were waiting in line. And by the time we were

00:21:33.220 --> 00:21:36.480
out of line, he was like, yeah, this is okay.

00:21:36.660 --> 00:21:39.099
This isn't so bad. And I'm like, yeah, that's

00:21:39.099 --> 00:21:41.819
what he needed was to just dive into food and

00:21:41.819 --> 00:21:43.400
search for it on the ground because he loves

00:21:43.400 --> 00:21:46.259
to sniff. And that was so good for him in that

00:21:46.259 --> 00:21:48.559
moment. I think he got the most out of it out

00:21:48.559 --> 00:21:52.019
of all three dogs I could have picked. Absolutely.

00:21:52.440 --> 00:21:54.579
That was like a replacement behavior then. So

00:21:54.579 --> 00:21:56.539
that was like a replacement behavior. Right.

00:21:56.599 --> 00:21:58.160
It's like sniff the ground. Don't pay attention

00:21:58.160 --> 00:21:59.420
to what's going on around you. So then it becomes

00:21:59.420 --> 00:22:01.140
a positive connotation. Right. Whether it's a

00:22:01.140 --> 00:22:03.660
distraction that they like or a replacement behavior.

00:22:04.059 --> 00:22:05.880
So one of the things I look at when I do like

00:22:05.880 --> 00:22:08.759
behavioral dogs is like box feeding and you dump

00:22:08.759 --> 00:22:10.500
a bunch of stuff in a box that they really want

00:22:10.500 --> 00:22:12.380
to eat and it cuts off all the visuals of the

00:22:12.380 --> 00:22:15.039
outside world. And so you have a dog that's not

00:22:15.039 --> 00:22:16.940
so stressed by all the visuals that it can see.

00:22:17.019 --> 00:22:19.539
It's just, they call it a dopamine box because

00:22:19.539 --> 00:22:21.880
they just get. bursts of dopamine in this box

00:22:21.880 --> 00:22:23.299
it's like they're eating they're eating they're

00:22:23.299 --> 00:22:24.920
eating they can't see anything that's going on

00:22:24.920 --> 00:22:27.599
around them so they tend to be less nervous and

00:22:27.599 --> 00:22:30.440
then you can build stimulus into that and start

00:22:30.440 --> 00:22:32.599
adding things that are a little scary but they're

00:22:32.599 --> 00:22:34.799
still getting those dopamine from from the food

00:22:34.799 --> 00:22:36.079
that they're eating and the treats they're getting

00:22:36.079 --> 00:22:39.740
in that box right and then in all these scenarios

00:22:39.740 --> 00:22:42.180
they're getting that like desensitization basically

00:22:42.180 --> 00:22:44.980
gradually so then it's to the point where you

00:22:45.359 --> 00:22:46.880
You don't even need to feel like, oh, should

00:22:46.880 --> 00:22:49.579
I coddle my dog? Right. And so, yeah, it's like

00:22:49.579 --> 00:22:52.619
I could have. Right. I could have in that moment

00:22:52.619 --> 00:22:55.460
in the food truck like rodeo thing been like,

00:22:55.519 --> 00:22:58.140
I'm just going to like pet him and like tell

00:22:58.140 --> 00:23:00.079
him it's OK and be like, you're such a good boy.

00:23:00.119 --> 00:23:03.380
You're a great job. But I did little to no talking

00:23:03.380 --> 00:23:07.180
to him. I didn't need to say anything other than

00:23:07.180 --> 00:23:10.400
stay right here next to me. And at one point

00:23:10.400 --> 00:23:11.960
a kid came up and was like, can I pet him? And

00:23:11.960 --> 00:23:13.400
I was like, no, he's really nervous right now.

00:23:13.519 --> 00:23:14.759
And they still like tried to pet him. And the

00:23:14.759 --> 00:23:16.279
parents were like, don't, he might bite you.

00:23:16.359 --> 00:23:17.980
And I was like, that's the last thing he would

00:23:17.980 --> 00:23:21.380
do, but, but maybe so back up. Right. Yeah. Yeah.

00:23:21.440 --> 00:23:23.319
He'll bite you. You don't got to run away and

00:23:23.319 --> 00:23:25.640
watch out. Right. You literally never touch anything

00:23:25.640 --> 00:23:28.980
with his mouth. Um, but it's like in those moments,

00:23:29.039 --> 00:23:31.619
you don't have to give your dog a command. You're

00:23:31.619 --> 00:23:34.579
just working through some of those things. And

00:23:34.579 --> 00:23:37.380
even if your dog is not fearful in those moments,

00:23:38.400 --> 00:23:40.619
If your dog is reactive and you do the same thing

00:23:40.619 --> 00:23:42.440
and you cuddle them and tell them it's okay and

00:23:42.440 --> 00:23:44.480
tell them they're a good boy and all of these

00:23:44.480 --> 00:23:47.660
words that we like to use, you're counteracting

00:23:47.660 --> 00:23:50.740
all of that in a negative way. Because you're

00:23:50.740 --> 00:23:54.589
giving them that affection and then... honestly

00:23:54.589 --> 00:23:56.369
you're just making it worse you're reinforcing

00:23:56.369 --> 00:23:59.130
how they feel yeah you're telling them that it's

00:23:59.130 --> 00:24:01.289
okay to feel that way gave me this attention

00:24:01.289 --> 00:24:03.690
when i was like this so i'm just gonna it's like

00:24:03.690 --> 00:24:06.130
almost over the top like a kid scraping his knee

00:24:06.130 --> 00:24:08.049
type of thing that we talked about before on

00:24:08.049 --> 00:24:10.849
here yeah but if you if it's just a minor you

00:24:10.849 --> 00:24:12.650
know just kind of keep going brush it off but

00:24:12.650 --> 00:24:15.609
if you're like oh baby then right then they over

00:24:15.609 --> 00:24:18.309
exaggerate like fake crying yeah it doesn't even

00:24:18.309 --> 00:24:19.869
really hurt because they're like i like what

00:24:19.869 --> 00:24:21.730
the attention i'm getting right because if it's

00:24:21.730 --> 00:24:23.529
like if your kid screams in a grocery store who's

00:24:23.630 --> 00:24:25.230
buying them the lollipop that they asked for

00:24:25.230 --> 00:24:30.390
raise your hand zero right nobody because if

00:24:30.390 --> 00:24:32.369
you do you're reinforcing the fact that that

00:24:32.369 --> 00:24:36.890
kid cried hard enough in a store to gain what

00:24:36.890 --> 00:24:39.509
they wanted which if it's affection then it's

00:24:39.509 --> 00:24:41.349
affection if it's a lollipop to a kid it's a

00:24:41.349 --> 00:24:44.529
lollipop but whatever they did right before that

00:24:44.529 --> 00:24:48.359
behavior is what got them that reward right and

00:24:48.359 --> 00:24:50.880
that i love that you brought it all full circle

00:24:50.880 --> 00:24:52.960
right back to the affection it took a long time

00:24:52.960 --> 00:24:55.839
it took a little bit but we got there um we went

00:24:55.839 --> 00:25:00.619
from reactivity back to um so but that's really

00:25:00.619 --> 00:25:03.319
really important is it like what happened right

00:25:03.319 --> 00:25:07.000
before you offered that affection in this case

00:25:07.000 --> 00:25:08.799
we're talking about affection but it works with

00:25:08.799 --> 00:25:11.079
reactivity this conversation works with everything

00:25:11.079 --> 00:25:14.190
because Dogs are very, very binary in their thinking,

00:25:14.329 --> 00:25:16.789
right? It's black and white, yes or no, ones

00:25:16.789 --> 00:25:21.589
and zeros. It's just they, like, I did this,

00:25:21.630 --> 00:25:25.130
then you did that. So those two must be related.

00:25:25.470 --> 00:25:30.289
Right. If I paw at you, you pet me. Right. Yep.

00:25:30.450 --> 00:25:37.289
That's a good one. So the idea that humans, we

00:25:37.289 --> 00:25:41.809
think, well, I'm doing this because. And then

00:25:41.809 --> 00:25:45.069
we justify it. Dogs don't do that. Dogs are like,

00:25:45.210 --> 00:25:47.069
well, what happened right before I got here?

00:25:47.769 --> 00:25:50.250
Right? And go ahead. I used to have a trainer

00:25:50.250 --> 00:25:52.910
back a few years ago. He used to tell me that

00:25:52.910 --> 00:25:56.869
dogs, they don't reason like how humans do. We

00:25:56.869 --> 00:25:59.230
all have the ability to be like, oh, well, this

00:25:59.230 --> 00:26:02.150
is hot because that's a fire. But a dog, they

00:26:02.150 --> 00:26:04.210
just associate everything. They don't, they just,

00:26:04.309 --> 00:26:06.269
oh, that thing burned me last time. I don't want

00:26:06.269 --> 00:26:07.630
to touch that. Like, they're not going to be

00:26:07.630 --> 00:26:09.569
like, oh, that's a fire. It's hot. Like, no,

00:26:09.589 --> 00:26:11.730
that's not how their brains work. So it's all

00:26:11.730 --> 00:26:15.130
dogs just work through association of, you know,

00:26:15.150 --> 00:26:18.369
past experiences and past events. And that's

00:26:18.369 --> 00:26:21.130
how we, that is how we train them, right? That's

00:26:21.130 --> 00:26:24.190
the gold standard. That's what we use to train

00:26:24.190 --> 00:26:27.390
dogs. The fact that they are such associated

00:26:27.390 --> 00:26:32.269
like creatures. So we can take a dog and associate

00:26:32.269 --> 00:26:35.950
them to a word that means you did good and a

00:26:35.950 --> 00:26:40.009
word that means no, try again. And then that's

00:26:40.009 --> 00:26:41.630
how you get a dog to sit. That's how you get

00:26:41.630 --> 00:26:43.329
a dog to down. That's how you get a dog to stay.

00:26:43.470 --> 00:26:45.910
All of these things. So we use that all the time.

00:26:46.089 --> 00:26:49.650
But the other side of it is you can also use

00:26:49.650 --> 00:26:54.190
it inadvertently and negatively impact your dog.

00:26:54.349 --> 00:26:55.970
Yeah. And so that's what we're talking about

00:26:55.970 --> 00:26:59.410
with this because too much free affection makes

00:26:59.410 --> 00:27:03.789
leadership feel optional. Right. And as soon

00:27:03.789 --> 00:27:06.950
as leadership is optional in the house and them

00:27:06.950 --> 00:27:11.289
following you is optional because maybe it's

00:27:11.289 --> 00:27:14.970
not required. Now you're playing catch up. Yeah.

00:27:15.089 --> 00:27:19.029
All right. And so to the trainers, right? Because

00:27:19.029 --> 00:27:22.289
you don't really have clients, right? But I'll

00:27:22.289 --> 00:27:24.789
let you jump in on this one too. What's an example

00:27:24.789 --> 00:27:27.730
of a client who accidentally rewarded problem

00:27:27.730 --> 00:27:31.730
behavior with affection and then ended up having

00:27:31.730 --> 00:27:34.849
to like undo that later? It's always, I don't

00:27:34.849 --> 00:27:36.910
even have a specific client, but I feel like

00:27:36.910 --> 00:27:38.750
in general, it's always. I mean, you don't have

00:27:38.750 --> 00:27:41.369
to call clients out. No, no. Well, I wouldn't

00:27:41.369 --> 00:27:45.339
know anyways, but a lot of the times. It's demand

00:27:45.339 --> 00:27:48.680
barking. So a lot of clients don't understand

00:27:48.680 --> 00:27:52.319
that it's demand barking. They're like the client

00:27:52.319 --> 00:27:55.299
or the dog is communicating with me, right? They

00:27:55.299 --> 00:27:58.619
want something. And so their life goal then at

00:27:58.619 --> 00:28:00.700
that point is to figure out what their dog wants.

00:28:01.240 --> 00:28:04.119
And so they will let them outside. And then the

00:28:04.119 --> 00:28:05.579
dog doesn't even go to the bathroom and it comes

00:28:05.579 --> 00:28:07.480
back in. And they're like, well, maybe they're

00:28:07.480 --> 00:28:10.420
hungry or thirsty or maybe they want a toy or

00:28:10.420 --> 00:28:13.180
maybe they want this or that. Right. So they...

00:28:13.759 --> 00:28:17.380
then strive to meet that goal of well the dog's

00:28:17.380 --> 00:28:20.299
barking so it obviously wants something and that

00:28:20.299 --> 00:28:22.420
may be true but the dog might just want your

00:28:22.420 --> 00:28:25.259
attention nine times out of ten the dog just

00:28:25.259 --> 00:28:27.019
wants your attention it doesn't need to go to

00:28:27.019 --> 00:28:28.779
the bathroom it doesn't need water it doesn't

00:28:28.779 --> 00:28:33.180
need food but when you give that dog the attention

00:28:33.180 --> 00:28:35.660
that it's seeking through barking you're meeting

00:28:35.660 --> 00:28:38.319
them right back where they wanted you to meet

00:28:38.319 --> 00:28:41.609
them and it's hey I'm barking I want something,

00:28:41.670 --> 00:28:43.470
I want something, I want something. Oh, you gave

00:28:43.470 --> 00:28:46.710
it to me, cool. Now I'm gonna do it every time.

00:28:46.950 --> 00:28:50.869
And then the dog builds in this pattern that

00:28:50.869 --> 00:28:53.390
we don't even realize, just like with threshold

00:28:53.390 --> 00:28:55.789
manners, I am number one on threshold manners

00:28:55.789 --> 00:28:58.069
of when we open the door and the dog just runs

00:28:58.069 --> 00:29:00.869
out, we have no problem until it's like the front

00:29:00.869 --> 00:29:03.769
door or we move and it's on a busy street or

00:29:03.769 --> 00:29:06.029
we're in an apartment and they can't run out

00:29:06.029 --> 00:29:08.470
the front door. And those are the patterns that

00:29:08.470 --> 00:29:11.079
we build that we don't realize until it's, Just

00:29:11.079 --> 00:29:13.039
a little too late. And then it's like, oh, I

00:29:13.039 --> 00:29:15.619
have a problem. All right. So mine is really

00:29:15.619 --> 00:29:19.200
quick. It's the dog that jumps on you. Every

00:29:19.200 --> 00:29:23.880
single time. The reason why a dog jumps on you

00:29:23.880 --> 00:29:25.920
and still jumps on you is because at some point

00:29:25.920 --> 00:29:29.720
in that dog's life, probably towards the beginning,

00:29:29.839 --> 00:29:35.400
someone was petting that dog. when they jumped

00:29:35.400 --> 00:29:37.000
up on them. Because it was short. Because it

00:29:37.000 --> 00:29:38.799
was short and it was cute and it was little and

00:29:38.799 --> 00:29:40.720
it wasn't really a problem. But now they're 80

00:29:40.720 --> 00:29:42.400
pounds and now it's kind of a problem. Now it's

00:29:42.400 --> 00:29:44.059
a problem. Now they're knocking down kids. Now

00:29:44.059 --> 00:29:46.920
they're plowing, yeah, plowing into things. No

00:29:46.920 --> 00:29:49.579
brakes. You got one, Melody? No. Because then

00:29:49.579 --> 00:29:52.460
I'm going to ask Nick. So not so much on the

00:29:52.460 --> 00:29:54.799
affection. I mean, it can be affection. But I'd

00:29:54.799 --> 00:29:57.640
be curious on the military side, is there an

00:29:57.640 --> 00:30:00.640
example of a time where you worked with a dog

00:30:00.640 --> 00:30:03.390
that like... started doing something no no you're

00:30:03.390 --> 00:30:08.710
still up uh but where you um an example of a

00:30:08.710 --> 00:30:12.329
dog that maybe you inadvertently reinforced and

00:30:12.329 --> 00:30:14.049
then you ended up with a behavior that you were

00:30:14.049 --> 00:30:16.109
like what where did this come from oh that's

00:30:16.109 --> 00:30:18.829
a solid question so but i want you to think about

00:30:18.829 --> 00:30:21.509
it while melody answers so uh well my answer

00:30:21.509 --> 00:30:23.089
is quick because it was going to be the jumping

00:30:23.089 --> 00:30:27.089
one and you probably know um a scenario i was

00:30:27.089 --> 00:30:29.869
thinking of but a lot of times people might want

00:30:32.050 --> 00:30:36.349
they'll accept affection and a behavior within

00:30:36.349 --> 00:30:39.109
context, but they don't want it in another. That's

00:30:39.109 --> 00:30:42.109
a good point. Right. That's a really good point.

00:30:42.170 --> 00:30:47.750
So within that situation was like, and the person

00:30:47.750 --> 00:30:50.150
knew she immediately knew she was like, yeah,

00:30:50.230 --> 00:30:52.210
I'm reinforcing the behavior that I'm asking

00:30:52.210 --> 00:30:56.400
y 'all to. um, help me correct. Yeah. So in that

00:30:56.400 --> 00:30:59.799
situation, because it was okay here, but we don't

00:30:59.799 --> 00:31:02.839
want her to jump on other people. Yeah. Or whenever

00:31:02.839 --> 00:31:06.539
she wants. So, you know, sometimes we will come

00:31:06.539 --> 00:31:10.579
up with a tailored plan and you've done that

00:31:10.579 --> 00:31:13.380
with Nala with the, you know, jumping, you know,

00:31:13.380 --> 00:31:15.619
yeah, on his arm. So sometimes we'll do a tailored

00:31:15.619 --> 00:31:17.599
thing, what she's talking about, or just, just

00:31:17.599 --> 00:31:20.430
real quick so we can explain it. So I have a

00:31:20.430 --> 00:31:24.150
process to allow my Belgian Malinois to jump

00:31:24.150 --> 00:31:26.930
up and get affection from me, right? And so she

00:31:26.930 --> 00:31:30.289
is not allowed to, one, demand it. So she doesn't

00:31:30.289 --> 00:31:33.069
come up to me and just jump on me. But I can

00:31:33.069 --> 00:31:36.069
put her in a strict heel, a foose, right, is

00:31:36.069 --> 00:31:38.890
the command that we use for her. And she stricks

00:31:38.890 --> 00:31:43.609
heels on the left side. And then I give her eye

00:31:43.609 --> 00:31:47.289
contact. And then I get focused and then I put

00:31:47.289 --> 00:31:49.789
my arm out in front of me and then I say, okay.

00:31:50.250 --> 00:31:52.930
And then she jumps up onto my arm with her two

00:31:52.930 --> 00:31:55.569
paws and then I can wrap my arm around her and

00:31:55.569 --> 00:31:58.710
like hug her and stuff. But it's all done from

00:31:58.710 --> 00:32:01.910
the side, not from the front. It's all done by

00:32:01.910 --> 00:32:05.009
me asking for it, me demanding that behavior

00:32:05.009 --> 00:32:07.930
basically from her. And so it's not something

00:32:07.930 --> 00:32:10.309
that she can initiate. And so this is where that

00:32:10.309 --> 00:32:12.630
clarity comes in for the dog so that they're

00:32:12.630 --> 00:32:16.130
not confused. Like, why am I allowed to do this

00:32:16.130 --> 00:32:19.890
similar jumping action with you, but not someone

00:32:19.890 --> 00:32:22.710
else? So that's perfect how you kind of, you

00:32:22.710 --> 00:32:26.569
know, you made it in the details and you controlling

00:32:26.569 --> 00:32:29.450
and initiating everything so that it is clear.

00:32:29.490 --> 00:32:31.630
And it's always the same process. It's always

00:32:31.630 --> 00:32:33.789
on the left side, always with eye contact, always

00:32:33.789 --> 00:32:37.130
with engagement. Then I offer the opportunity

00:32:37.130 --> 00:32:40.920
to do that, right? Yeah, super important. Nick,

00:32:41.039 --> 00:32:44.079
what you got? Yeah, that was a good question.

00:32:44.160 --> 00:32:45.680
I had to really think hard about that one, to

00:32:45.680 --> 00:32:48.079
be honest with you. Tune them off real quick.

00:32:48.259 --> 00:32:51.099
I don't want to single anyone's dog out in the

00:32:51.099 --> 00:32:55.220
past. No names. I think one of the most common

00:32:55.220 --> 00:32:57.859
ones that we have is with just about every one

00:32:57.859 --> 00:33:02.049
of our male dogs is marking. And that comes,

00:33:02.130 --> 00:33:04.230
like, where it becomes problematic for us is,

00:33:04.269 --> 00:33:06.230
you know, when we're doing detection lanes. More

00:33:06.230 --> 00:33:08.190
so than not, you know, it is more problematic,

00:33:08.309 --> 00:33:10.049
you know, when you have more male dogs running

00:33:10.049 --> 00:33:12.710
after. But taking, like, for the trainingism,

00:33:12.730 --> 00:33:15.609
like, yes, that is where, you know, you tell

00:33:15.609 --> 00:33:16.990
your dog to take a break or you just take him

00:33:16.990 --> 00:33:18.630
on a walk or, you know, whatever the case may

00:33:18.630 --> 00:33:21.869
be. And, you know, that dog, he's not actually

00:33:21.869 --> 00:33:23.970
relieving himself. He's just going and marking.

00:33:24.349 --> 00:33:26.910
Well, when I tell my dog to go and search, you

00:33:26.910 --> 00:33:29.109
know, whatever command that may be, when he goes

00:33:29.109 --> 00:33:31.259
out, you know sometimes he'll have to relieve

00:33:31.259 --> 00:33:33.640
himself and when he does relieve himself you

00:33:33.640 --> 00:33:36.559
know a lot of times the the handler will allow

00:33:36.559 --> 00:33:38.400
the dog to relieve yourself like relieve himself

00:33:38.400 --> 00:33:40.559
because at the end of the day like if i'm patrolling

00:33:40.559 --> 00:33:42.359
i'm if i need to use the bathroom i want to use

00:33:42.359 --> 00:33:45.079
the bathroom too um if given the opportunity

00:33:45.079 --> 00:33:48.660
uh but so all like a lot of times like we'll

00:33:48.660 --> 00:33:50.039
we'll give the dog the opportunity to do that

00:33:50.039 --> 00:33:51.759
and next thing you know it's like oh is he gonna

00:33:51.759 --> 00:33:53.880
pee and then you're like oh he just marked and

00:33:53.880 --> 00:33:56.720
then you're like ah and then and then as we talked

00:33:56.720 --> 00:33:59.380
about timing earlier because we didn't know he

00:33:59.380 --> 00:34:01.299
was gonna you know we didn't know he's in a mark

00:34:01.299 --> 00:34:03.099
we thought maybe he's gonna relieve himself we

00:34:03.099 --> 00:34:05.359
didn't correct that behavior now timing is off

00:34:05.359 --> 00:34:08.219
right and so since the timing is off you're like

00:34:08.219 --> 00:34:10.559
ah like if i correct him now he's like as he's

00:34:10.559 --> 00:34:11.860
already walking away it's like oh he's walking

00:34:11.860 --> 00:34:13.900
away i'm gonna correct him for walking away like

00:34:13.900 --> 00:34:15.800
that's that's improper timing you know you don't

00:34:15.800 --> 00:34:17.659
want to get that wrong wrong timing right so

00:34:17.659 --> 00:34:19.659
that's where we always talk about like punishment

00:34:19.659 --> 00:34:22.260
versus a correction right correction happens

00:34:22.260 --> 00:34:24.980
at in the moment right and punishment is afterwards

00:34:24.980 --> 00:34:27.460
we just don't recommend anybody punish your dog

00:34:28.010 --> 00:34:30.889
and punishing i think uh you know punishing it's

00:34:30.889 --> 00:34:33.329
always a i don't want to say it's a gray area

00:34:33.329 --> 00:34:35.690
because it's yeah right but we're also working

00:34:35.690 --> 00:34:38.230
at majorly different levels exactly yeah no no

00:34:38.230 --> 00:34:42.289
absolutely yes but um you know it's uh with that

00:34:42.289 --> 00:34:44.869
though with the whole marking yeah it's one of

00:34:44.869 --> 00:34:47.429
those like ah and then next thing you know you

00:34:47.429 --> 00:34:49.289
know, the dog did it two more times, but you

00:34:49.289 --> 00:34:51.070
know, you start to become more aware of it. Oh,

00:34:51.170 --> 00:34:52.829
he's about to do it again. And you give him like

00:34:52.829 --> 00:34:54.349
a quick little leash pull. Hey buddy, come on

00:34:54.349 --> 00:34:56.150
over here. You know, you're correcting that behavior.

00:34:56.610 --> 00:34:59.449
Um, so. Right. We, we do have clients with pet

00:34:59.449 --> 00:35:01.130
dogs. Sometimes I have males and they're like,

00:35:01.130 --> 00:35:02.730
you know, on our walk, they stop four or five,

00:35:02.789 --> 00:35:04.670
six, seven, eight, nine, 10 times. And it's like,

00:35:04.730 --> 00:35:07.530
cool. You get, you get three for me, three max.

00:35:07.750 --> 00:35:09.710
And then we're walking. And if you stop, I'm

00:35:09.710 --> 00:35:11.829
still walking. So you know what, you're, you're

00:35:11.829 --> 00:35:13.469
still coming with me. So you don't even have

00:35:13.469 --> 00:35:17.429
time to mark anymore. Yeah. Yeah. Okay, so next

00:35:17.429 --> 00:35:21.050
question. How do you explain to owners that dogs

00:35:21.050 --> 00:35:23.969
don't see cuddles the same way that people do?

00:35:25.869 --> 00:35:30.269
Anyone want to jump on that one? So I always

00:35:30.269 --> 00:35:32.969
look at it as like, I always compare it to kids.

00:35:33.550 --> 00:35:37.670
So if you look at a kid that only gets affection

00:35:37.670 --> 00:35:42.250
and no structure, most of the time you have a

00:35:42.250 --> 00:35:46.199
kid that is unruly. And does whatever they want

00:35:46.199 --> 00:35:52.559
until they get a consequence. When you have a

00:35:52.559 --> 00:35:56.320
kid that you build in structure with, the kid

00:35:56.320 --> 00:35:59.340
knows what to expect. And you see less of those

00:35:59.340 --> 00:36:01.400
unruly behaviors because they know what's going

00:36:01.400 --> 00:36:05.159
to come next. So for me, that's how I kind of

00:36:05.159 --> 00:36:09.539
always initiate the conversation in a comparable

00:36:09.539 --> 00:36:12.739
way. because if you just compare it in a dog

00:36:12.739 --> 00:36:14.780
way right it's like everybody just wants to cuddle

00:36:14.780 --> 00:36:16.559
their dog like that's why they bought the dog

00:36:16.559 --> 00:36:18.000
most of the time it's because it was cute and

00:36:18.000 --> 00:36:20.579
it was soft and it was fluffy and it looked at

00:36:20.579 --> 00:36:25.280
them with these sparkly eyes and and kids don't

00:36:25.280 --> 00:36:27.260
always do that because they're tearing up your

00:36:27.260 --> 00:36:30.199
stuff but the minute your dog tears up your stuff

00:36:30.199 --> 00:36:32.579
you're probably going to kind of look at it the

00:36:32.579 --> 00:36:35.619
same way and if you don't give that dog the structure

00:36:35.619 --> 00:36:38.639
that it needs You can show it as much affection

00:36:38.639 --> 00:36:40.679
as you want, but it's still going to do whatever

00:36:40.679 --> 00:36:45.280
it wants to. Yeah, good point. Yeah, I think,

00:36:45.300 --> 00:36:47.219
and we're not saying, like, don't cuddle your

00:36:47.219 --> 00:36:50.099
dog. It's just more of, this is probably leading

00:36:50.099 --> 00:36:53.860
into some other things, but a huge piece of this

00:36:53.860 --> 00:36:56.800
affection, I believe, is just literally the word

00:36:56.800 --> 00:37:00.280
calm. Yeah. So when your dog is calm, give it

00:37:00.280 --> 00:37:04.639
affection. Cuddle it. I mean, we already kind

00:37:04.639 --> 00:37:07.019
of touched on, you know, if we're tailoring things

00:37:07.019 --> 00:37:10.000
with the dog jumping in context. But generally,

00:37:10.239 --> 00:37:13.659
I would say, you know, like cuddling is fine

00:37:13.659 --> 00:37:16.940
as long as it's within. Four on the floor. Yeah.

00:37:17.440 --> 00:37:20.119
Yeah. Four on the floor. When the dog's calm.

00:37:20.280 --> 00:37:23.159
Yeah. Because otherwise, if you're petting it

00:37:23.159 --> 00:37:25.400
and giving it lots of affection when it's hyped

00:37:25.400 --> 00:37:29.630
up, then. expect it to expect that yeah every

00:37:29.630 --> 00:37:31.769
time you know every time yeah so you come in

00:37:31.769 --> 00:37:33.150
the door and you don't want it jumping on you

00:37:33.150 --> 00:37:36.829
then then don't pet it you know or cuddle it

00:37:36.829 --> 00:37:39.329
immediately afterwards right doing that some

00:37:39.329 --> 00:37:41.889
people don't just get that you just have to ignore

00:37:41.889 --> 00:37:44.710
your dog for a little bit like just a few minutes

00:37:44.710 --> 00:37:46.570
when you get in that front door and then you

00:37:46.570 --> 00:37:48.429
can cuddle them all they want once they relax

00:37:48.429 --> 00:37:51.880
i come out in the morning and i will walk one

00:37:51.880 --> 00:37:54.599
by one to all four of our dogs and give them

00:37:54.599 --> 00:37:57.159
cuddles if they held their place. But it's like,

00:37:57.159 --> 00:37:59.239
that's what I expect is for you to hold your

00:37:59.239 --> 00:38:00.559
place. I don't get to come out of the bedroom

00:38:00.559 --> 00:38:03.840
and you'd be like, oh my goodness. I want you

00:38:03.840 --> 00:38:05.760
to relax on your place and then I will come one

00:38:05.760 --> 00:38:08.239
by one. But if you break from your place while

00:38:08.239 --> 00:38:09.719
I'm petting another dog, you have to go back

00:38:09.719 --> 00:38:11.860
and you still don't get your pets yet. Yeah.

00:38:12.260 --> 00:38:14.940
You're the last one in line now. Absolutely.

00:38:14.940 --> 00:38:17.599
I think one of the big things to touch on for

00:38:17.599 --> 00:38:20.579
this too is, you know, it applies to both pets

00:38:20.579 --> 00:38:23.420
and for working dogs and any dog owner around

00:38:23.420 --> 00:38:27.679
is the key term of anthropomorphism. Excuse me

00:38:27.679 --> 00:38:29.099
if I'm saying it wrong. I love the way, no, you

00:38:29.099 --> 00:38:31.559
said it exactly right. I've tried to say this

00:38:31.559 --> 00:38:35.199
word before. I don't think I've caught it on

00:38:35.199 --> 00:38:37.679
the podcast, but I'm going to try to avoid. Great

00:38:37.679 --> 00:38:40.159
job, though. Keep going. That word is a mouthful.

00:38:40.159 --> 00:38:42.579
I mess it up every time. But for those of you

00:38:42.579 --> 00:38:44.960
listening that don't know exactly what anthropomorphism

00:38:44.960 --> 00:38:50.300
is, it is the ideals that animals have, humanistic,

00:38:50.300 --> 00:38:54.360
you know. features and thoughts. So, you know,

00:38:54.380 --> 00:38:57.139
Oh, my dog feels sad because of this. Oh, I didn't

00:38:57.139 --> 00:38:59.159
give my dog enough love. So my dog is upset.

00:38:59.400 --> 00:39:01.260
That's not how dogs think. Uh, you know, I'm

00:39:01.260 --> 00:39:02.519
sorry if I'm being a little too blunt for you.

00:39:02.860 --> 00:39:05.059
Um, but end of the day, your dog doesn't care

00:39:05.059 --> 00:39:07.400
if you're, if you're cuddling him or not. Um,

00:39:08.619 --> 00:39:10.840
written in realistically, uh, you know, as, as

00:39:10.840 --> 00:39:12.760
I kind of touched on earlier is, you know, that

00:39:12.760 --> 00:39:15.360
affection, uh, you know, you talked about it

00:39:15.360 --> 00:39:16.460
in one of your, one of your podcasts earlier

00:39:16.460 --> 00:39:18.659
is about that whole, it's, it's not always about

00:39:18.659 --> 00:39:21.940
pack mentality, but simply, Simply you being

00:39:21.940 --> 00:39:24.699
around your dog is just enough for that dog to

00:39:24.699 --> 00:39:27.800
already feel love, feel accepted. And that's

00:39:27.800 --> 00:39:29.699
really where like the big, you know, misconception

00:39:29.699 --> 00:39:33.699
of, you know, you know, physical love versus

00:39:33.699 --> 00:39:36.840
just the simple, oh, this person allows me like

00:39:36.840 --> 00:39:39.260
this, this being is allowing me to be with them

00:39:39.260 --> 00:39:41.920
in their domicile. Yeah. And that in itself.

00:39:42.429 --> 00:39:45.349
is, is, is miles like large for, for the, for

00:39:45.349 --> 00:39:48.550
animals. Um, so I think something like that is

00:39:48.550 --> 00:39:50.250
definitely big for, you know, the owners out

00:39:50.250 --> 00:39:52.750
there who do think that they need to give their

00:39:52.750 --> 00:39:55.329
dog all the attention in the world. Um, and then

00:39:55.329 --> 00:39:56.849
the second part that I kind of wanted to touch

00:39:56.849 --> 00:39:59.409
on too, was with all that, uh, the free love

00:39:59.409 --> 00:40:02.389
and, you know, not having, uh, established leadership

00:40:02.389 --> 00:40:04.929
might be showing my age when I say like the decade

00:40:04.929 --> 00:40:07.210
here, but the way I like to think of this one

00:40:07.210 --> 00:40:09.469
is, you know, if you look at, you know, children

00:40:09.469 --> 00:40:12.110
that grew up in the 1970s and before. you have

00:40:12.110 --> 00:40:14.150
your mom who would stay at home. Typically she

00:40:14.150 --> 00:40:17.070
would stay at home and she was never seen as

00:40:17.070 --> 00:40:20.110
a disciplinarian. And a lot of times, you know,

00:40:20.150 --> 00:40:21.570
you had a lot of those like, you know, you know,

00:40:21.570 --> 00:40:24.349
eight to like 13 year old boys from, and this

00:40:24.349 --> 00:40:25.949
is just stereotypes here that I'm speaking about

00:40:25.949 --> 00:40:29.489
that I think I understand is. these boys would

00:40:29.489 --> 00:40:31.650
just essentially run all over the mom and the

00:40:31.650 --> 00:40:33.210
mom would always say, wait till your father gets

00:40:33.210 --> 00:40:36.170
home. Father gets home and then next thing you

00:40:36.170 --> 00:40:38.469
know, those boys are acting right because they

00:40:38.469 --> 00:40:41.110
know what the father can do. Granted, completely

00:40:41.110 --> 00:40:44.250
different story from back then versus what's

00:40:44.250 --> 00:40:48.849
allowed and acceptable today. But it's a good

00:40:48.849 --> 00:40:53.329
metaphor in order to kind of conceptualize the...

00:40:54.049 --> 00:40:56.070
leadership so to say and i'm not saying you know

00:40:56.070 --> 00:40:58.989
if if you are a mom from you know 1970s or earlier

00:40:58.989 --> 00:41:01.349
i'm not by no means am i knocking you i'm just

00:41:01.349 --> 00:41:03.469
using it i'm a 90s baby though and i for sure

00:41:03.469 --> 00:41:06.630
heard that line exactly i for sure did and i

00:41:06.630 --> 00:41:09.010
was always straight laced when my dad came home

00:41:09.010 --> 00:41:11.389
i was like no no i'm not messing with him so

00:41:11.389 --> 00:41:13.710
to tie it in with with this next point and i'm

00:41:13.710 --> 00:41:16.550
going to try to keep this uh we we really strive

00:41:16.550 --> 00:41:19.010
to get into that like one hour like time block

00:41:19.010 --> 00:41:22.590
but we are we're covering a lot of really good

00:41:22.590 --> 00:41:26.309
information that I want. So it's not a problem.

00:41:26.349 --> 00:41:28.730
We, if we go over a little bit, but I'm going

00:41:28.730 --> 00:41:30.969
to tie this into our second point though, because

00:41:30.969 --> 00:41:34.190
our second point is leadership first followed

00:41:34.190 --> 00:41:38.710
by affection second. So this is the solution,

00:41:38.809 --> 00:41:40.349
right? So we talked about the problem. We've

00:41:40.349 --> 00:41:42.070
kind of framed out the problem, but what do you

00:41:42.070 --> 00:41:44.489
do about it? And, and the dog owners that are

00:41:44.489 --> 00:41:46.849
listening and they're like, Oh, cool. So Now

00:41:46.849 --> 00:41:48.750
I'm just messing it up because I'm hugging my

00:41:48.750 --> 00:41:51.670
dog. That is not what we're saying. But just

00:41:51.670 --> 00:41:56.630
put it second to you stepping up into that leadership

00:41:56.630 --> 00:41:59.409
role for the dog and everything else falls into

00:41:59.409 --> 00:42:02.889
place. And so what I mean is leadership builds

00:42:02.889 --> 00:42:06.389
trust and that makes affection more meaningful.

00:42:07.010 --> 00:42:12.230
When you lead the house, the dog respects leadership.

00:42:12.389 --> 00:42:17.079
Dogs value leadership and respect. Far more than

00:42:17.079 --> 00:42:18.840
they do affection. And that comes from their

00:42:18.840 --> 00:42:22.579
animalistic tendencies and their, you know, evolution

00:42:22.579 --> 00:42:26.239
as a breed, right? Regardless of their genetics

00:42:26.239 --> 00:42:31.119
are going to play this role. Their 98 or 99 %

00:42:31.119 --> 00:42:35.099
of their genome comes from wolves, right? And

00:42:35.099 --> 00:42:36.920
that doesn't mean they are a wolf, but it does

00:42:36.920 --> 00:42:41.900
mean that there is a direct descendant -like

00:42:41.900 --> 00:42:46.579
line here. And the concept that... every dog

00:42:46.579 --> 00:42:52.300
is built for and is able to lead themselves around

00:42:52.300 --> 00:42:55.260
the world is incorrect they will not and they

00:42:55.260 --> 00:42:59.300
are invariably are going to make decisions that

00:42:59.300 --> 00:43:01.519
you're either not going to expect or you certainly

00:43:01.519 --> 00:43:03.659
wouldn't make for them right you wouldn't make

00:43:03.659 --> 00:43:06.840
the same decision so you have to start with leadership

00:43:06.840 --> 00:43:09.400
that foundational leadership in the home of you

00:43:09.400 --> 00:43:13.710
asking for what you want you telling a dog hey,

00:43:13.750 --> 00:43:16.429
I would like you to come here or I would, hey,

00:43:16.489 --> 00:43:18.969
jump up here on the couch and come get this affection,

00:43:19.230 --> 00:43:23.750
right, is totally different than just swooping

00:43:23.750 --> 00:43:26.409
down on the dog right after they did something

00:43:26.409 --> 00:43:29.530
and you now reinforcing that with all of this

00:43:29.530 --> 00:43:32.789
love and affection. Have them do something. Have

00:43:32.789 --> 00:43:37.429
them come to you. Reward that recall. That's

00:43:37.429 --> 00:43:43.530
allowed. That's even useful. When, oh, he just

00:43:43.530 --> 00:43:46.590
doesn't know or he's a little scared or he's

00:43:46.590 --> 00:43:48.650
a little worried or he's this or he's that. And

00:43:48.650 --> 00:43:51.449
then we coddle the dog. That doesn't send the

00:43:51.449 --> 00:43:56.150
same message to the dog. So affection given after

00:43:56.150 --> 00:44:00.809
calm behavior reinforces balance. And a balanced

00:44:00.809 --> 00:44:03.800
dog is. Always what you want. You don't want

00:44:03.800 --> 00:44:06.960
a dog that's just spastic energy, high out the

00:44:06.960 --> 00:44:09.780
door, like they're at a 10 out of 10 all the

00:44:09.780 --> 00:44:13.840
time. I talk about how I tell clients all the

00:44:13.840 --> 00:44:17.300
time that a dog that is at a 10 out of 10 doesn't

00:44:17.300 --> 00:44:19.920
listen no matter what training they have. They

00:44:19.920 --> 00:44:22.360
can't. They cannot physically listen at a 10

00:44:22.360 --> 00:44:25.079
out of 10. And the concept is that if you watch

00:44:25.079 --> 00:44:27.139
competition dogs, and you can speak to it from

00:44:27.139 --> 00:44:30.219
the military dogs, Nick, but The goal is to train

00:44:30.219 --> 00:44:33.719
this dog to be at like a 9 .8. Right? Right.

00:44:34.380 --> 00:44:37.179
Just right on the fine line of, oh, it's almost

00:44:37.179 --> 00:44:40.500
at a 10. They're fully engaged. Oh, they're so

00:44:40.500 --> 00:44:42.420
excited. They're whatever. They're like ready

00:44:42.420 --> 00:44:45.260
to bite, ready to react. But they're not at a

00:44:45.260 --> 00:44:48.159
10. Because if they're at a 10. It doesn't matter

00:44:48.159 --> 00:44:50.460
what training they have. They're in an animalistic

00:44:50.460 --> 00:44:53.420
state where they are just subconsciously reactive.

00:44:53.599 --> 00:44:55.860
We like to call our dogs manageable monsters.

00:44:55.960 --> 00:44:58.440
There you go. Because, you know, they do, you

00:44:58.440 --> 00:45:00.059
know, for our dogs specifically when they're

00:45:00.059 --> 00:45:03.440
doing bite work, you know, they are so far into

00:45:03.440 --> 00:45:07.780
it. But having that just ounce of level -headedness

00:45:07.780 --> 00:45:10.860
to be able to hear me say out here, you know,

00:45:10.960 --> 00:45:13.599
that just having that little tiny little bit

00:45:13.599 --> 00:45:16.900
of... thought process in that dog's head. Um,

00:45:17.139 --> 00:45:19.059
you can't always have that. You know, you don't

00:45:19.059 --> 00:45:20.900
always want that 10 out of 10. Right. Right.

00:45:20.980 --> 00:45:24.340
And so we focus on building that emotional regulation

00:45:24.340 --> 00:45:27.940
into the dog so that they can interact and play

00:45:27.940 --> 00:45:30.079
and be excited and all of those things that we

00:45:30.079 --> 00:45:34.139
want, but at like a nine or an eight, right?

00:45:34.239 --> 00:45:36.679
Because we can, that way we have a little bit

00:45:36.679 --> 00:45:39.099
of headroom on that, right? We can go up just

00:45:39.099 --> 00:45:43.570
a little bit. Um, A great example to relate like

00:45:43.570 --> 00:45:47.469
your bite work to the pet dog is a dog who's

00:45:47.469 --> 00:45:51.130
like got the zoomies, right? And they are at

00:45:51.130 --> 00:45:55.550
a 10 and they are zooming around the house and

00:45:55.550 --> 00:45:57.590
they're so excited and this is the best day of

00:45:57.590 --> 00:46:00.210
their life and it's so much fun. And right as

00:46:00.210 --> 00:46:02.570
that's happening, right as they're in the middle

00:46:02.570 --> 00:46:05.929
of that zoom, nine times out of 10, most owners

00:46:05.929 --> 00:46:07.449
will be like, yeah, they don't listen at that

00:46:07.449 --> 00:46:10.769
moment, right? Right, how could they? They haven't

00:46:10.769 --> 00:46:14.110
been taught. So we can teach the dog that calmness.

00:46:14.130 --> 00:46:16.869
We can reinforce the calmness. We can use the

00:46:16.869 --> 00:46:19.590
affection in this case, relating it back. We

00:46:19.590 --> 00:46:23.449
use the affection to, to reinforce calmness.

00:46:24.309 --> 00:46:27.550
The dog will always be able to go back up, but

00:46:27.550 --> 00:46:30.369
teaching the dog to come down is really, really

00:46:30.369 --> 00:46:34.269
important. And so we want to use affection like

00:46:34.269 --> 00:46:38.090
to align with our goals for the dog. You can

00:46:38.090 --> 00:46:41.139
cuddle your dog. But do it when the dog is calm.

00:46:41.559 --> 00:46:44.860
Do it when the dog is paying attention. Do it

00:46:44.860 --> 00:46:48.099
when the dog gives you engagement. All of those

00:46:48.099 --> 00:46:51.119
things. So now you're using affection as a tool

00:46:51.119 --> 00:46:54.559
in the house. And you're cuddling your dog. You

00:46:54.559 --> 00:46:59.639
can do both. All right. Did you have something

00:46:59.639 --> 00:47:02.659
to add on it? So love paired with leadership.

00:47:03.579 --> 00:47:05.980
strengthens the relationship but it has to be

00:47:05.980 --> 00:47:08.280
paired with leadership not just by itself we

00:47:08.280 --> 00:47:10.559
don't just give the dog love and affection by

00:47:10.559 --> 00:47:13.400
itself with no boundaries and no leadership that

00:47:13.400 --> 00:47:17.679
by itself creates anxiety because the dog doesn't

00:47:17.679 --> 00:47:20.380
know what you're reinforcing Right. And it's

00:47:20.380 --> 00:47:22.500
just going to start picking out things. Maybe

00:47:22.500 --> 00:47:24.139
this was acceptable. Maybe this was acceptable.

00:47:24.219 --> 00:47:26.619
Why am I getting all of these pets right now?

00:47:26.679 --> 00:47:29.000
Why am I getting all of this? And they could

00:47:29.000 --> 00:47:30.940
have been just thinking in their head how bad

00:47:30.940 --> 00:47:33.420
they wanted to go murder that squirrel outside.

00:47:33.659 --> 00:47:35.719
Right. You don't know what you're reinforcing.

00:47:35.880 --> 00:47:38.960
So give them an activity. Ask them for a behavior

00:47:38.960 --> 00:47:41.760
and then reinforce it with your affection. Right.

00:47:41.840 --> 00:47:44.199
Gabe is the most anxious dog that we have. And

00:47:44.199 --> 00:47:47.760
he. We'll get affection mostly when he's on his

00:47:47.760 --> 00:47:50.440
place, but that's like the primary place that

00:47:50.440 --> 00:47:52.780
we give him affection where we will come over

00:47:52.780 --> 00:47:55.239
and we will give him some pets. Cause any other

00:47:55.239 --> 00:47:58.039
time he is like, what is that? Oh, what is that?

00:47:58.159 --> 00:48:02.320
Ah, what is that? And I was grinding his nails

00:48:02.320 --> 00:48:05.340
earlier today, which I very rarely do, but I

00:48:05.340 --> 00:48:07.719
have been working on with him and I grinded his

00:48:07.719 --> 00:48:09.440
nails earlier and he got the most affection,

00:48:09.559 --> 00:48:13.000
but at the right times. And I was super careful

00:48:13.000 --> 00:48:15.860
with that to not give him affection after I stopped

00:48:15.860 --> 00:48:19.179
grinding his nails or in the middle of changing

00:48:19.179 --> 00:48:22.380
his nails. Like I was giving him affection at

00:48:22.380 --> 00:48:25.900
the right moments when he had withheld and been

00:48:25.900 --> 00:48:28.679
like, okay, I can do this. And then was like,

00:48:28.820 --> 00:48:31.559
yes, that's a perfect way to do that because

00:48:31.559 --> 00:48:33.460
he's like not pulling away from me and he's not

00:48:33.460 --> 00:48:37.900
frantically trying to escape. So I think those

00:48:37.900 --> 00:48:39.639
are the things that a lot of people feel guilty

00:48:39.639 --> 00:48:41.940
for. But if you have a severely anxious dog,

00:48:42.139 --> 00:48:48.340
giving them affection is so not dangerous, but

00:48:48.340 --> 00:48:52.539
it can be so impactful on that dog and worsen

00:48:52.539 --> 00:48:56.360
it way more than it already is. Absolutely. I

00:48:56.360 --> 00:49:00.780
think my rescue dog at home, she is. My rescues

00:49:00.780 --> 00:49:05.280
are hard. Yeah. And she, long story short, she

00:49:05.280 --> 00:49:07.079
was found in a dumpster when she was a puppy.

00:49:08.280 --> 00:49:10.079
ASPCA saved her and all that good stuff. And,

00:49:10.099 --> 00:49:11.500
you know, same story how you were talking about

00:49:11.500 --> 00:49:12.960
earlier. She was cute, so we brought her home.

00:49:13.039 --> 00:49:14.880
Yeah. Next thing you know, she's not cute anymore.

00:49:15.099 --> 00:49:17.380
The hardest dogs. Oh, my goodness. They will

00:49:17.380 --> 00:49:19.940
test you. The amount of anxiety this dog has.

00:49:20.639 --> 00:49:22.659
And how I talked about earlier, timing is everything.

00:49:22.780 --> 00:49:25.780
You know, you try to calm the dog down with some

00:49:25.780 --> 00:49:28.619
pets. And, you know, just very easy, soothing,

00:49:28.739 --> 00:49:31.820
you know, reinforcements. And next thing you

00:49:31.820 --> 00:49:35.519
know, like, you're reinforcing some fear that

00:49:35.519 --> 00:49:37.639
she already, like, was just, you didn't even

00:49:37.639 --> 00:49:39.940
know she had. And you're just like, oh, my goodness.

00:49:40.260 --> 00:49:42.420
We find new things all the time. It's like he

00:49:42.420 --> 00:49:44.639
pulled out a GoPro one time and just, like, walked

00:49:44.639 --> 00:49:47.579
by him. And Gabe was just like, what is that?

00:49:48.000 --> 00:49:51.329
And I was like. Right, like who trains for like

00:49:51.329 --> 00:49:54.269
specifically a GoPro to be pulled out, right?

00:49:54.389 --> 00:49:56.409
It's like we've worked on so many things with

00:49:56.409 --> 00:49:59.269
Gabe and like trying our best to expose him to

00:49:59.269 --> 00:50:02.670
everything, but my man will find one thing to

00:50:02.670 --> 00:50:05.570
niche down on and he is like, that's actually

00:50:05.570 --> 00:50:09.690
really scary, I can't do it. I think that kind

00:50:09.690 --> 00:50:11.550
of just like plays into a little bit what we

00:50:11.550 --> 00:50:13.670
were talking about earlier where like everyone

00:50:13.670 --> 00:50:17.210
kind of has their cap and I think as trainers

00:50:17.210 --> 00:50:20.719
and as dog owners, We all need to have like realistic

00:50:20.719 --> 00:50:24.000
expectations on what our dog is truly capable

00:50:24.000 --> 00:50:28.300
of. Yeah. Truly capable of. Yep. So that is,

00:50:28.300 --> 00:50:29.960
that's definitely one of those, you know, boundaries

00:50:29.960 --> 00:50:31.840
that are, you know, they have to be made at some

00:50:31.840 --> 00:50:34.739
point and understood by everyone involved. Right.

00:50:34.820 --> 00:50:36.280
He's definitely the one that's taught me that

00:50:36.280 --> 00:50:38.179
because it's like, he's still fearful of a lot

00:50:38.179 --> 00:50:39.760
of things. And it's like, I've owned him for

00:50:39.760 --> 00:50:42.440
a while now and I'm a dog trainer, right? It's

00:50:42.440 --> 00:50:44.179
like, well, he should be like a hundred percent.

00:50:44.599 --> 00:50:48.239
He is one of those dogs that he will never be

00:50:48.239 --> 00:50:51.610
a hundred percent. He will always find something

00:50:51.610 --> 00:50:54.449
to be fearful of, whether he was genetically

00:50:54.449 --> 00:50:57.130
born like that or whether something happened

00:50:57.130 --> 00:50:59.230
to him from before I had him that I don't know

00:50:59.230 --> 00:51:00.929
what it was, and it was so terrible it's just

00:51:00.929 --> 00:51:04.150
carried over into everything. But he's one of

00:51:04.150 --> 00:51:07.469
those dogs that he'll never be 100%, but he has

00:51:07.469 --> 00:51:10.570
come so far that I don't think I could be more

00:51:10.570 --> 00:51:13.690
proud of that dog if I tried. He grabbed a ball

00:51:13.690 --> 00:51:16.449
the other day, for goodness sakes, and he has

00:51:16.449 --> 00:51:21.559
never touched one. And he's almost six. I love

00:51:21.559 --> 00:51:25.960
that. All right. So I'm going to take a quick

00:51:25.960 --> 00:51:31.219
break here and open it up for questions. So one

00:51:31.219 --> 00:51:35.480
of the things that I realized that we're as we

00:51:35.480 --> 00:51:37.280
go on this podcast journey, we're getting better

00:51:37.280 --> 00:51:40.460
at certain things. And and I need to continue

00:51:40.460 --> 00:51:43.960
to get better at other things. One thing we didn't

00:51:43.960 --> 00:51:46.559
cover at the beginning is how this podcast is

00:51:46.559 --> 00:51:49.179
structured differently. And I didn't explain

00:51:49.179 --> 00:51:52.960
that we have live clients on the line that are

00:51:52.960 --> 00:51:57.940
listening because this is a like a group pack

00:51:57.940 --> 00:52:00.159
leadership call that we do on a weekly basis

00:52:00.159 --> 00:52:04.329
for our clients. and they have been patiently

00:52:04.329 --> 00:52:05.929
kind of waiting in the background, but we're

00:52:05.929 --> 00:52:07.829
at like the 50 -minute mark, and I really want

00:52:07.829 --> 00:52:10.570
to give anybody who has a question an opportunity

00:52:10.570 --> 00:52:13.489
to ask, whether it's to the trainers or to Nick

00:52:13.489 --> 00:52:16.650
with his background on the military side. You

00:52:16.650 --> 00:52:19.949
guys are free to ask whatever comes to mind.

00:52:26.010 --> 00:52:28.849
And I still don't have the Jeopardy music, but...

00:52:29.420 --> 00:52:33.820
hi it's Lila hey Lila hi I have a question for

00:52:33.820 --> 00:52:38.039
Nick and I'm here for you what's up I was just

00:52:38.039 --> 00:52:40.880
wondering you were talking about how you have

00:52:40.880 --> 00:52:46.519
to give your like um explosive dogs a replacement

00:52:46.519 --> 00:52:49.480
behavior if they get afraid I was just wondering

00:52:49.480 --> 00:52:52.159
what that looked like in that sort of situation

00:52:52.159 --> 00:52:55.679
yeah so a lot of times uh you know when we're

00:52:55.679 --> 00:52:57.760
training you know uh you know when we're using

00:52:58.319 --> 00:53:00.679
you know, things like flashbangs, right? They're

00:53:00.679 --> 00:53:03.579
small explosives that we carry around and you

00:53:03.579 --> 00:53:05.760
throw it into a room and it makes a very large

00:53:05.760 --> 00:53:09.460
light and a very loud sound. Sometimes, you know,

00:53:09.480 --> 00:53:11.039
dogs, they're not going to be expecting it. They

00:53:11.039 --> 00:53:14.860
get scared of it. So in a situation like that,

00:53:14.940 --> 00:53:17.579
what we do is we'll replicate the precursors

00:53:17.579 --> 00:53:20.800
to that loud sound. So when you throw a flashbang,

00:53:20.860 --> 00:53:23.659
there's a metallic ping. And then you could hear

00:53:23.659 --> 00:53:25.980
it bouncing around before it, you know, makes

00:53:25.980 --> 00:53:28.679
that explosion. So a lot of times what we will

00:53:28.679 --> 00:53:31.219
do is we will just take a flashbang that's already

00:53:31.219 --> 00:53:33.239
been used and we'll put everything back together

00:53:33.239 --> 00:53:36.099
so we could replicate that exact sound. So this

00:53:36.099 --> 00:53:38.960
way, that dog, you know, he'll hear that precursor

00:53:38.960 --> 00:53:41.699
and then he's going to look to me. And this is

00:53:41.699 --> 00:53:43.280
where we come in as, you know, when we're doing

00:53:43.280 --> 00:53:45.579
these dry runs with them, we'll throw that flashbang

00:53:45.579 --> 00:53:47.619
and we'll, you know, we'll tell the dog, hey,

00:53:47.679 --> 00:53:50.840
sit, hey, down, hey, you know, do whatever I

00:53:50.840 --> 00:53:54.500
want you to do. And then when he does that, you

00:53:54.500 --> 00:53:57.179
make it like, hey, good job, buddy. You give

00:53:57.179 --> 00:53:59.159
him a toy in that situation when you're doing

00:53:59.159 --> 00:54:01.199
your practice runs. But then when you're doing

00:54:01.199 --> 00:54:03.400
the real thing, that's where that physical praise

00:54:03.400 --> 00:54:05.659
comes in because you're doing the real thing

00:54:05.659 --> 00:54:07.800
at this point. I have my hand that's right next

00:54:07.800 --> 00:54:09.619
to his head. Sometimes I'll try to give him a

00:54:09.619 --> 00:54:11.179
little, like I'll cover his ears a little bit.

00:54:11.480 --> 00:54:14.260
And then I'll give him, once that explosion goes

00:54:14.260 --> 00:54:16.619
off, if he gets a little startled, I'll just

00:54:16.619 --> 00:54:18.500
give him a little pet. Hey, it's all right. And

00:54:18.500 --> 00:54:21.480
put him back in that position. of you know the

00:54:21.480 --> 00:54:23.199
sit or the down whichever one i wanted to be

00:54:23.199 --> 00:54:27.019
in and then we move from there it's um so you

00:54:27.019 --> 00:54:31.260
give the dog a job exactly yes right so like

00:54:31.260 --> 00:54:33.780
brianna's that i've had a few people already

00:54:33.780 --> 00:54:35.920
call out brianna's favorite thing to talk about

00:54:35.920 --> 00:54:39.369
on the podcast is her threshold work Right. My

00:54:39.369 --> 00:54:42.010
favorite thing through the door. It's not my

00:54:42.010 --> 00:54:45.809
favorite at all. Right. My favorite thing to

00:54:45.809 --> 00:54:48.289
harp on is how important it is for dogs to have

00:54:48.289 --> 00:54:51.150
a job. Right. Because when you don't give the

00:54:51.150 --> 00:54:54.469
dog a job, why are you upset that they're choosing

00:54:54.469 --> 00:54:58.289
their own line of work? Exactly. Dogs love to

00:54:58.289 --> 00:55:00.150
follow. And if you're that leader that, you know,

00:55:00.150 --> 00:55:04.230
that dog needs, things will fall in line the

00:55:04.230 --> 00:55:06.789
way you want because you are the leader. Does

00:55:06.789 --> 00:55:10.329
that answer your question? it does thank you

00:55:10.329 --> 00:55:14.050
awesome thank you and nice i heard you uh ryan

00:55:14.050 --> 00:55:16.570
it started coming in my head give the dog a job

00:55:16.570 --> 00:55:18.590
right when he was saying that give the sit and

00:55:18.590 --> 00:55:22.250
the down yes i love that i love that yes that's

00:55:22.250 --> 00:55:25.329
my favorite thing to do now i it that is one

00:55:25.329 --> 00:55:27.969
of the lessons that uh has been the most influential

00:55:27.969 --> 00:55:33.449
on me with my dog training journey and uh like

00:55:33.449 --> 00:55:35.889
if you don't give the dog a job how can you expect

00:55:35.889 --> 00:55:38.869
them to How can you say they're doing the wrong

00:55:38.869 --> 00:55:44.110
thing? Yeah. Does anybody else have any questions

00:55:44.110 --> 00:55:45.690
here? And then we're going to drive on to our

00:55:45.690 --> 00:55:47.309
third point and then we'll wrap it up tonight.

00:55:52.269 --> 00:55:55.949
The silence is deafening. It's okay. We can move

00:55:55.949 --> 00:55:58.230
on. All right. We're going to move on to point

00:55:58.230 --> 00:56:03.030
number three. Affection as a reward, not a default.

00:56:03.659 --> 00:56:06.280
So when affection is tied to a good behavior,

00:56:06.460 --> 00:56:09.840
it becomes like this powerful training tool.

00:56:10.059 --> 00:56:13.440
But if it's not actually tied to a behavior,

00:56:13.800 --> 00:56:19.039
it can create something that's unknown. You don't

00:56:19.039 --> 00:56:21.760
know what it's going to create, right? So petting

00:56:21.760 --> 00:56:26.219
and praise should mark desirable states. And

00:56:26.219 --> 00:56:28.539
we can use that to kind of reinforce our calmness.

00:56:28.559 --> 00:56:31.360
We can use that to reinforce good behavior. We

00:56:31.360 --> 00:56:34.030
can use it to do a lot of things. But it can

00:56:34.030 --> 00:56:38.070
also, just like anything, a great amount of a

00:56:38.070 --> 00:56:42.349
power or a good tool can be used improperly and

00:56:42.349 --> 00:56:45.610
it can create a problem for us. So all that we

00:56:45.610 --> 00:56:48.650
are advocating for here is not that you don't

00:56:48.650 --> 00:56:51.210
ever pet your dog. It's just that you use the

00:56:51.210 --> 00:56:53.849
affection and just tie it to a good behavior.

00:56:55.769 --> 00:57:00.760
So dogs learn that. So that dogs learn that affection

00:57:00.760 --> 00:57:05.980
is earned rather than it just shows up randomly.

00:57:06.139 --> 00:57:09.619
So this is the same concept as when we use food

00:57:09.619 --> 00:57:15.639
or play. We use a tug or toy or a ball. And it

00:57:15.639 --> 00:57:18.420
makes sense to us in all these other aspects.

00:57:18.519 --> 00:57:20.000
It's like, well, of course, I don't want to give

00:57:20.000 --> 00:57:22.219
the dog food after they just pooped on the floor.

00:57:22.920 --> 00:57:28.119
But then we do that same thing. just renaming

00:57:28.119 --> 00:57:31.380
those two activities, right? We pet the dog that

00:57:31.380 --> 00:57:34.639
just jumped up on us. That is the same equivalent

00:57:34.639 --> 00:57:38.900
to giving the dog a treat right after it got

00:57:38.900 --> 00:57:42.119
done pooping on the floor. So don't do that.

00:57:42.639 --> 00:57:49.840
The default affection often teaches entitlement

00:57:49.840 --> 00:57:53.579
too. And this is a complicated topic that probably

00:57:53.579 --> 00:57:56.119
needs its own. podcast but when you work with

00:57:56.119 --> 00:58:01.059
entitled dogs there there is an army of angry

00:58:01.059 --> 00:58:02.920
people that i'm sure will shake their fists at

00:58:02.920 --> 00:58:05.480
me uh listening to this podcast at some point

00:58:05.480 --> 00:58:09.639
someday i mean as soon as we get over the hump

00:58:09.639 --> 00:58:16.280
of maybe like 20 listeners um when default affection

00:58:16.280 --> 00:58:22.380
uh Teaching entitlement. What does that mean?

00:58:22.500 --> 00:58:26.420
My dog can't be entitled. No, the dog doesn't

00:58:26.420 --> 00:58:29.880
think like that. They just respond to this or

00:58:29.880 --> 00:58:33.320
to that. That is not what my experience tells

00:58:33.320 --> 00:58:37.840
me. And I would love, Nick, you are a subject

00:58:37.840 --> 00:58:41.199
matter expert with well over a decade of experience

00:58:41.199 --> 00:58:44.780
on the highest level, like the highest trained

00:58:44.780 --> 00:58:49.059
dogs that... the military has and like in the

00:58:49.059 --> 00:58:51.860
special operations community, what is your take

00:58:51.860 --> 00:58:55.440
on entitled dogs? My dog is a perfect example

00:58:55.440 --> 00:59:01.019
of it. Um, as, uh, so my, he's now retired. Um,

00:59:01.260 --> 00:59:06.500
he is entitled to the sense of he now gets pets

00:59:06.500 --> 00:59:08.579
now that he is, I don't want to say just free

00:59:08.579 --> 00:59:11.780
pets whenever, but in his retirement, he has

00:59:11.780 --> 00:59:15.010
learned. From a variety of people that if he

00:59:15.010 --> 00:59:18.269
just goes up to them and nudges them, he's getting

00:59:18.269 --> 00:59:22.949
all the pets he wants. And that, that to me is

00:59:22.949 --> 00:59:25.989
one of the most, to me, this is just my own personal

00:59:25.989 --> 00:59:29.320
opinion. Uh, I, I hate that. I absolutely hate

00:59:29.320 --> 00:59:32.099
it. Nala does it. I hate it too. And, and you

00:59:32.099 --> 00:59:34.739
know, my dog, he's by no means a weak dog. Like

00:59:34.739 --> 00:59:38.579
he is like 60 pounds of pure muscle. So he is,

00:59:38.599 --> 00:59:41.199
he comes in and when he, you know, moves your

00:59:41.199 --> 00:59:43.860
hand saying, Hey, pet me. Right. He does it with

00:59:43.860 --> 00:59:46.199
meaning it. Like he's like, you're going to pet

00:59:46.199 --> 00:59:49.739
me. And that, that right there is that's entitlement.

00:59:50.159 --> 00:59:53.639
It's demand behavior. Right. And so, uh, I, what

00:59:53.639 --> 00:59:56.880
I want to ask because. someone listening to this

00:59:56.880 --> 00:59:59.199
for the first time is going to be like oh you

00:59:59.199 --> 01:00:00.980
don't like it when your dog comes and asks for

01:00:00.980 --> 01:00:04.900
pets why what is the reason right because as

01:00:04.900 --> 01:00:07.780
a dog trainer we look at this as like so that's

01:00:07.780 --> 01:00:10.860
just the the surface level issue but what it

01:00:10.860 --> 01:00:14.659
creates is this like second and third level issue

01:00:14.659 --> 01:00:17.940
so why don't you like that behavior because it's

01:00:17.940 --> 01:00:19.980
demand behavior okay it's the same what is that

01:00:19.980 --> 01:00:22.139
segue to or like what does it create it segues

01:00:22.139 --> 01:00:24.280
to a whole bunch of problems it segues to the

01:00:24.280 --> 01:00:26.699
dog was like, well, I did this and I got that.

01:00:26.780 --> 01:00:29.159
So if I do this, I'm going to get this. And then

01:00:29.159 --> 01:00:34.320
I can talk them into like metaphorically doing

01:00:34.320 --> 01:00:39.099
things how I want. And that doesn't fly with

01:00:39.099 --> 01:00:43.679
me. So how I would explain it is it's like sleeping

01:00:43.679 --> 01:00:49.539
in the bed or it's like doing a lot of different

01:00:49.539 --> 01:00:51.599
things that owners like to do for their dogs,

01:00:51.659 --> 01:00:55.929
right? And by itself, Those things are usually

01:00:55.929 --> 01:01:00.409
okay. But at the moment where you're coming and

01:01:00.409 --> 01:01:04.969
hiring a professional dog trainer and potentially

01:01:04.969 --> 01:01:09.909
paying a lot of money to fix these other issues

01:01:09.909 --> 01:01:13.289
in the house, but then we look and we're like,

01:01:13.409 --> 01:01:16.550
but the dog just comes up to you, literally like

01:01:16.550 --> 01:01:20.090
moves your hand away from what you're doing or

01:01:20.090 --> 01:01:24.030
jumps on your laptop when it's on your lap. right

01:01:24.030 --> 01:01:27.690
this was a recent one like the dog jumps up onto

01:01:27.690 --> 01:01:30.690
your lap right pushes the buttons like basically

01:01:30.690 --> 01:01:33.929
pause hit the screen and moves your laptop out

01:01:33.929 --> 01:01:38.369
of your lap so that you'll pet them well at what

01:01:38.369 --> 01:01:42.710
point do you do you not think that that is related

01:01:42.710 --> 01:01:46.449
to the dog pulling on the leash in order to go

01:01:46.449 --> 01:01:50.429
off and smell this mailbox when they walked by

01:01:50.429 --> 01:01:52.829
it It's the same thing. It is the same thing.

01:01:53.030 --> 01:01:54.469
And if you wouldn't accept it from your child

01:01:54.469 --> 01:01:56.170
when you're trying to talk on the phone with

01:01:56.170 --> 01:01:58.150
your boss or trying to talk with your friend

01:01:58.150 --> 01:02:02.369
and your child's not stopping interrupting, then

01:02:02.369 --> 01:02:05.090
why would you accept that from your dog? Creating

01:02:05.090 --> 01:02:08.369
that attention seeking and then just going off

01:02:08.369 --> 01:02:11.630
on another tangent, some dogs that I've experienced,

01:02:11.750 --> 01:02:16.809
they are on some level of having separation anxiety.

01:02:17.400 --> 01:02:20.239
or insecure attachments so that's a whole nother

01:02:20.239 --> 01:02:22.559
thing so then you're just feeding into that right

01:02:22.559 --> 01:02:25.039
um so that's a whole nother just going back to

01:02:25.039 --> 01:02:27.800
like you're in control it has to be when you

01:02:27.800 --> 01:02:31.219
say and when the dog's calmer so not not when

01:02:31.219 --> 01:02:33.219
it you know demanding is not just demand barking

01:02:33.219 --> 01:02:35.539
like you've said it's right you know nudging

01:02:35.539 --> 01:02:37.460
you licking i hate the licking i'm just gonna

01:02:37.460 --> 01:02:41.820
say and um so they they may go and just like

01:02:41.820 --> 01:02:44.679
lick your leg constantly um try to find your

01:02:44.679 --> 01:02:47.599
hand and lick it and So I would make it a point

01:02:47.599 --> 01:02:50.039
to ignore them and then give them, you know,

01:02:50.039 --> 01:02:51.900
maybe a replacement behavior and then give them

01:02:51.900 --> 01:02:54.219
attention when they're calm. But you do have

01:02:54.219 --> 01:02:56.059
to be really careful with the balance of that

01:02:56.059 --> 01:02:59.340
because some of the dogs that are more so maybe

01:02:59.340 --> 01:03:02.219
have like an insecure attachment, you might have

01:03:02.219 --> 01:03:07.400
to just only like say something and or pet them,

01:03:07.420 --> 01:03:10.769
but not both type of thing. because they'll get

01:03:10.769 --> 01:03:12.889
riled up really easily and then they start demanding

01:03:12.889 --> 01:03:15.170
it you know so you just have to be careful with

01:03:15.170 --> 01:03:17.630
the dogs that seek the attention more than food

01:03:17.630 --> 01:03:20.489
yeah basically right because nala will do it

01:03:20.489 --> 01:03:22.730
but she's just like hey pet me i really love

01:03:22.730 --> 01:03:25.389
you like that's her whole thing gabe will do

01:03:25.389 --> 01:03:28.869
it just the same and but his is insecure he's

01:03:28.869 --> 01:03:31.250
like hey i'm kind of uncomfortable can you just

01:03:31.250 --> 01:03:33.949
like pet me and it's like no i'm i'm not gonna

01:03:33.949 --> 01:03:36.929
pet either of them In hindsight, I'm going to

01:03:36.929 --> 01:03:40.670
tell both of them, no, Nala, because you're not

01:03:40.670 --> 01:03:43.550
in charge of me. Get out of here. And two, because

01:03:43.550 --> 01:03:46.190
she will try to bully her way through any situation.

01:03:46.449 --> 01:03:48.829
She's like, I'm a pro. She's a very assertive

01:03:48.829 --> 01:03:53.469
dog. She's like, just do it. And Gabe, on the

01:03:53.469 --> 01:03:55.150
other hand, is just uncomfortable with everything.

01:03:55.230 --> 01:03:57.570
And he's like, just please, I don't know, save

01:03:57.570 --> 01:03:59.909
me from whatever is going on. And I'm like, no,

01:03:59.949 --> 01:04:02.409
I'm not going to comfort you. Go lay back on

01:04:02.409 --> 01:04:05.519
your place, like I said. All right, so the gold

01:04:05.519 --> 01:04:10.360
standard question, and then jump in here before

01:04:10.360 --> 01:04:13.440
I go down that one. To kind of just add into

01:04:13.440 --> 01:04:15.800
that, too, it's just really establishing that,

01:04:15.920 --> 01:04:18.119
you know, as black and white as this may sound,

01:04:18.239 --> 01:04:22.739
is the dog is subservient to you. And, you know,

01:04:22.739 --> 01:04:26.900
take it as you will. But, I mean, really having

01:04:26.900 --> 01:04:28.880
those boundaries and well -defined lines of,

01:04:28.940 --> 01:04:32.699
hey, I am in charge and you are not. That's a,

01:04:32.760 --> 01:04:34.400
that's really where it comes down to for, you

01:04:34.400 --> 01:04:37.559
know, for dog owners out there. Right. So we,

01:04:37.579 --> 01:04:39.780
I think we talked about this on the first episode

01:04:39.780 --> 01:04:42.619
was that like you, you're, you're not in a democracy

01:04:42.619 --> 01:04:45.519
with your dog. Right. And because your dog doesn't

01:04:45.519 --> 01:04:48.119
have voting rights and it can't because you're

01:04:48.119 --> 01:04:50.760
telling it to do all of these things, all these

01:04:50.760 --> 01:04:52.920
other times, and you're expecting it to listen.

01:04:53.099 --> 01:04:56.719
But then when we get into bed and we're cuddling,

01:04:56.719 --> 01:04:59.300
we're now equals. Right, that doesn't make sense

01:04:59.300 --> 01:05:03.340
to the dog. And if it makes sense to you, I promise

01:05:03.340 --> 01:05:06.139
you it's not thought about the same way by your

01:05:06.139 --> 01:05:08.300
dog. Right, the dog does not think you're its

01:05:08.300 --> 01:05:11.219
bestie. Like we're not besties here. It's like

01:05:11.219 --> 01:05:13.900
somebody has to lead. And if it's not you, it's

01:05:13.900 --> 01:05:16.260
the dog. Yeah. And a lot of times dogs just step

01:05:16.260 --> 01:05:18.139
up into that role. I talk about this all the

01:05:18.139 --> 01:05:21.440
time at private lessons is the dog is not trying

01:05:21.440 --> 01:05:24.940
to subvert you. The dog is not trying to alpha

01:05:24.940 --> 01:05:27.400
roll you or all of these other things that have

01:05:27.400 --> 01:05:30.019
become like popular and conversation in the dog

01:05:30.019 --> 01:05:32.679
training community recently. The dog is just

01:05:32.679 --> 01:05:35.880
like, are you going to you going to do you going

01:05:35.880 --> 01:05:38.639
to do something about that? No. OK, well, I'll

01:05:38.639 --> 01:05:40.739
take care of it. And then they make a decision.

01:05:40.940 --> 01:05:44.320
Right. And. Nine times out of 10, that decision

01:05:44.320 --> 01:05:47.840
that they made is not what you wanted. Right.

01:05:48.380 --> 01:05:51.619
And so going back to like the affection category,

01:05:51.920 --> 01:05:55.380
affection for a dog can be a resource. And so

01:05:55.380 --> 01:05:58.320
sometimes we see pet dogs that resource guard,

01:05:58.480 --> 01:06:01.559
they're humans. And it's because they get all

01:06:01.559 --> 01:06:04.079
of the structure, the love, the affection from

01:06:04.079 --> 01:06:06.739
that human, because that's a human that's home

01:06:06.739 --> 01:06:09.400
all the time. We got into COVID and we saw a

01:06:09.400 --> 01:06:12.699
huge wave of people working from home. And with

01:06:12.699 --> 01:06:15.280
that, we saw a huge wave of dogs with anxiety

01:06:15.280 --> 01:06:18.380
and separation anxiety and resource guarding

01:06:18.380 --> 01:06:21.340
of their humans and their spaces because that's

01:06:21.340 --> 01:06:23.619
where they were all the time. And now we have

01:06:23.619 --> 01:06:25.780
this thing where it's like, well, the dog is

01:06:25.780 --> 01:06:28.619
resource guarding me. Well, you're the one that

01:06:28.619 --> 01:06:30.360
works with it. You're the one that pets it. You're

01:06:30.360 --> 01:06:32.179
the one that shows it everything that it needs.

01:06:33.000 --> 01:06:35.699
Of course, that's what it's going to end up doing

01:06:35.699 --> 01:06:38.539
because just like food and just like toys, affection

01:06:38.539 --> 01:06:42.230
is just another resource for a dog. That. I can't

01:06:42.230 --> 01:06:44.190
believe that I didn't put that point in the outline,

01:06:44.389 --> 01:06:46.389
but I am so glad that you brought it up. You're

01:06:46.389 --> 01:06:52.849
welcome. Great job. To go down this rabbit hole,

01:06:52.889 --> 01:06:55.510
I think it's super, super important. So let's

01:06:55.510 --> 01:06:59.329
define this. When we're talking about affection

01:06:59.329 --> 01:07:02.369
as a resource, if that dog, just like if you

01:07:02.369 --> 01:07:04.610
leave the dog's food out and they can go and

01:07:04.610 --> 01:07:07.849
get the food whenever they want, if they're able

01:07:07.849 --> 01:07:11.889
to come up to you and demand, and assert themselves

01:07:11.889 --> 01:07:15.730
and produce that resource i .e the affection

01:07:15.730 --> 01:07:18.929
they're able to get that resource when they want

01:07:18.929 --> 01:07:23.389
you become a resource that they can potentially

01:07:23.389 --> 01:07:27.989
become guarding of right and so it's not always

01:07:27.989 --> 01:07:32.869
and so then right and so then suddenly you get

01:07:32.869 --> 01:07:34.929
a dog that's like exhibiting some aggressive

01:07:34.929 --> 01:07:37.269
behavior in and around the house and you can't

01:07:37.269 --> 01:07:41.280
figure it out right but If you start to really

01:07:41.280 --> 01:07:43.739
dial those in, you start to figure out, oh, well,

01:07:43.920 --> 01:07:48.659
when I go and give, maybe the affection is to

01:07:48.659 --> 01:07:50.500
the wife or to the husband or either one, but

01:07:50.500 --> 01:07:53.760
then the husband and wife go and embrace and

01:07:53.760 --> 01:07:57.019
suddenly the dog is like having a fit. Right.

01:07:57.360 --> 01:08:01.960
Because they're getting this contact affection

01:08:01.960 --> 01:08:05.639
that the dog sees as, hey, that's mine. Yeah.

01:08:06.179 --> 01:08:10.309
Right. That's a really, really good point. I

01:08:10.309 --> 01:08:11.989
can't believe that I missed it. So good job.

01:08:12.269 --> 01:08:14.610
I hate it all here. Right. Resource guarding.

01:08:15.030 --> 01:08:17.409
It can create resource guarding. All right. So

01:08:17.409 --> 01:08:21.329
now the golden question. How do you teach clients

01:08:21.329 --> 01:08:25.310
to use affection strategically? And I would love

01:08:25.310 --> 01:08:27.229
for, even though you don't have clients, I'd

01:08:27.229 --> 01:08:29.310
love for you to weigh in on that because like

01:08:29.310 --> 01:08:32.470
this is like, so what do we do? What would we

01:08:32.470 --> 01:08:38.779
have people do? So we've said this before, which

01:08:38.779 --> 01:08:43.880
is just a simple concept to remember, is first

01:08:43.880 --> 01:08:47.260
this, then this. It's very simple, you know,

01:08:47.260 --> 01:08:51.199
not giving the dog affection until it's done

01:08:51.199 --> 01:08:55.239
what you've expected of it to do. And also not,

01:08:55.279 --> 01:08:58.199
you know, not giving it affection when it's overstimulated,

01:08:58.279 --> 01:09:00.899
overreactive, hyped up, whatever, when it's calmer.

01:09:01.159 --> 01:09:04.340
So yeah, just basics, literally first this, then

01:09:04.340 --> 01:09:10.079
this. Nice. Nick? Yeah, no, I mean, I think you

01:09:10.079 --> 01:09:12.020
definitely hit it on the head there. But one

01:09:12.020 --> 01:09:14.640
of the things that I think that could, you know,

01:09:14.640 --> 01:09:16.460
help dog owners out there, because I mean, I

01:09:16.460 --> 01:09:17.960
catch myself thinking about it all the time too,

01:09:18.100 --> 01:09:21.340
is establish a routine for yourself. And when

01:09:21.340 --> 01:09:23.979
you're able to give that dog, you know, some

01:09:23.979 --> 01:09:26.899
kind of physical attention. So like for me, for

01:09:26.899 --> 01:09:28.420
example, one of the things that I do when it

01:09:28.420 --> 01:09:31.329
comes to, you know, physical. attention not physical

01:09:31.329 --> 01:09:33.770
praise or anything like that just attention uh

01:09:33.770 --> 01:09:37.409
to the dog is every once in a while at night

01:09:37.409 --> 01:09:40.250
um when my wife and i are laying on the couch

01:09:40.250 --> 01:09:42.489
uh she hates when the dogs are on the couch i

01:09:42.489 --> 01:09:44.949
don't really care so for the most part dogs don't

01:09:44.949 --> 01:09:49.149
go on the couch but my working dog he uh will

01:09:49.149 --> 01:09:51.529
usually just be laying in his bed And when he's

01:09:51.529 --> 01:09:53.909
nice, calm, and usually he's not nice and calm

01:09:53.909 --> 01:09:55.409
in the house. He is, like, always looking for

01:09:55.409 --> 01:09:56.510
something to do, always trying to find something

01:09:56.510 --> 01:09:58.989
to destroy, always trying to find a kid's toy.

01:09:59.130 --> 01:10:00.909
You're retired, man. Yeah, exactly. You've got

01:10:00.909 --> 01:10:04.390
to chill. Give it a break. But when I see him

01:10:04.390 --> 01:10:07.369
laying down as we're watching TV, you know, it's

01:10:07.369 --> 01:10:09.149
like later in the evening, it's like, all right,

01:10:09.149 --> 01:10:10.649
cool, we're all calming down. That's when I'll

01:10:10.649 --> 01:10:15.069
invite him up on the couch. And he never goes

01:10:15.069 --> 01:10:18.109
on the couch on his own. It's just a routine

01:10:18.109 --> 01:10:21.350
that. I've established for A, myself, and then

01:10:21.350 --> 01:10:24.789
B, for him. You know, just establishing a good

01:10:24.789 --> 01:10:28.090
baseline foundation for rules, expectations,

01:10:28.250 --> 01:10:32.350
and then it does allow, like, for when I do,

01:10:32.430 --> 01:10:35.130
when he comes up on the couch with me, he understands

01:10:35.130 --> 01:10:37.130
that he goes on his back and he just gets all

01:10:37.130 --> 01:10:39.609
the pets he wants for a few minutes. And it is

01:10:39.609 --> 01:10:42.510
not unconditional either. He gets a few pets,

01:10:42.609 --> 01:10:44.250
and then when I'm done, hey, buddy, get off.

01:10:44.390 --> 01:10:47.510
Go back in your bed. And it's, it's a very simple

01:10:47.510 --> 01:10:50.390
understood task where it's black and white. And

01:10:50.390 --> 01:10:51.569
that's, I mean, as you talked about earlier,

01:10:51.649 --> 01:10:53.189
that's, that's what dogs need black and white.

01:10:53.590 --> 01:10:56.550
Yeah. Yeah. So I do a lot of like, I like to

01:10:56.550 --> 01:10:58.789
encourage like free shaping behaviors. So as

01:10:58.789 --> 01:11:01.069
soon as like a dog will lay down on its own or

01:11:01.069 --> 01:11:03.149
exhibit the calm behavior without me even like

01:11:03.149 --> 01:11:05.710
telling it to, that's when I will like go over

01:11:05.710 --> 01:11:07.569
and kind of like show some affection and be like,

01:11:07.609 --> 01:11:09.170
good, you finally calmed down. Like that's what

01:11:09.170 --> 01:11:13.489
I was looking for in order. to get this and so

01:11:13.489 --> 01:11:18.069
sometimes i will work in a variance between demanding

01:11:18.069 --> 01:11:21.789
or asking for the calm behavior for affection

01:11:21.789 --> 01:11:25.189
versus looking for them to just start exhibiting

01:11:25.189 --> 01:11:31.789
that on their own yeah and my take on it is create

01:11:31.789 --> 01:11:37.949
a sequence create a sequence where you ask to

01:11:37.949 --> 01:11:42.729
initiate that affection It could be simple. It

01:11:42.729 --> 01:11:45.550
could be complicated. I detailed how I do it

01:11:45.550 --> 01:11:49.970
with Nala. It could be whatever. Nick is talking

01:11:49.970 --> 01:11:53.189
about where he, once things have calmed down,

01:11:53.229 --> 01:11:58.529
then he invites him up. Just create something

01:11:58.529 --> 01:12:05.710
that the dog needs to do every time to set the

01:12:05.710 --> 01:12:11.100
conditions for you allowing or asking. For that

01:12:11.100 --> 01:12:13.979
behavior, which the behavior is now cuddles.

01:12:14.060 --> 01:12:17.000
The behavior is the affection, right? It's like,

01:12:17.060 --> 01:12:21.539
hey, will you sit? Oh, good job. Can you come

01:12:21.539 --> 01:12:24.300
over here in a heel? Oh, good job. Great job.

01:12:24.579 --> 01:12:27.579
All right, let me give you some love. Or, hey,

01:12:27.720 --> 01:12:31.319
don't just jump up onto the couch. Like, get

01:12:31.319 --> 01:12:38.899
off. Down. Good. Sit. Good job. Climb. Like,

01:12:38.899 --> 01:12:41.119
come up here to the couch. Like, let me love

01:12:41.119 --> 01:12:45.060
on you. But that creates something that the dog

01:12:45.060 --> 01:12:50.380
had to do. And that directly, that speaks a completely

01:12:50.380 --> 01:12:52.800
different language to the dog. Instead of the

01:12:52.800 --> 01:12:57.199
dog getting it because they wanted it, they did

01:12:57.199 --> 01:12:59.859
something and they were rewarded for it. And

01:12:59.859 --> 01:13:01.899
then they still got that affection. You still

01:13:01.899 --> 01:13:03.920
built that relationship, but you showed leadership

01:13:03.920 --> 01:13:06.180
at the very beginning. I think it's really, really

01:13:06.180 --> 01:13:08.500
important. That's, that should be kind of the,

01:13:08.520 --> 01:13:12.640
the, the way forward on that. Yeah. All right.

01:13:12.699 --> 01:13:19.840
Last one. What, so once an hour, I, I kind of

01:13:19.840 --> 01:13:21.779
already answered this one. What is an everyday

01:13:21.779 --> 01:13:25.960
routine where affection can be used? So let's

01:13:25.960 --> 01:13:29.079
talk about like what, where affection should

01:13:29.079 --> 01:13:32.600
be limited until after calm behavior. And we

01:13:32.600 --> 01:13:35.949
kind of alluded to that, right? But like, I think

01:13:35.949 --> 01:13:38.890
threshold I think when you walk in the door is

01:13:38.890 --> 01:13:41.529
probably the biggest one right if anyone else

01:13:41.529 --> 01:13:44.010
has one they can jump in but I know Brianna's

01:13:44.010 --> 01:13:47.489
all about oh go for it yeah I don't ever do anything

01:13:47.489 --> 01:13:50.310
involving a crate that has anything to do with

01:13:50.310 --> 01:13:53.689
more than like a calm behavior even if it's like

01:13:53.689 --> 01:13:57.149
letting them out of the crate specifically because

01:13:57.149 --> 01:13:58.930
a lot of people it's just like thresholds right

01:13:58.930 --> 01:14:00.949
it's like when somebody lets a dog out of a crate

01:14:00.949 --> 01:14:04.250
they're so excited but But why are you excited?

01:14:04.329 --> 01:14:05.850
Because you're going to breed excitement into

01:14:05.850 --> 01:14:07.590
that dog. And then it's just going to encourage

01:14:07.590 --> 01:14:09.670
the dog that busting out of that crate is the

01:14:09.670 --> 01:14:12.789
best thing that could have been a part of it.

01:14:12.850 --> 01:14:15.109
And then you're rewarding them just busting out

01:14:15.109 --> 01:14:17.529
of that door. Just like thresholds. Right. And

01:14:17.529 --> 01:14:20.189
so my example was going to be I walk in the door

01:14:20.189 --> 01:14:22.989
from a long day at work. If the dogs are already

01:14:22.989 --> 01:14:26.069
out or maybe that's where they are, they just

01:14:26.069 --> 01:14:28.609
kind of mill about during the day. And they're

01:14:28.609 --> 01:14:31.770
going to be excited to see you. There's no turning

01:14:31.770 --> 01:14:34.470
that off. You want your dogs to be excited to

01:14:34.470 --> 01:14:36.350
see you. That's usually something that's good

01:14:36.350 --> 01:14:40.270
that owners usually like. But how they swarm

01:14:40.270 --> 01:14:43.390
you or come up and jump on you or try to demand

01:14:43.390 --> 01:14:45.470
that behavior because they're like, oh my gosh,

01:14:45.609 --> 01:14:49.369
I'm so excited that you're here. That is where

01:14:49.369 --> 01:14:53.890
I would prohibit reinforcing that event with

01:14:53.890 --> 01:14:58.800
affection until calmness has ensued. At the point

01:14:58.800 --> 01:15:01.039
where calmness is ensued or, hey, go to your

01:15:01.039 --> 01:15:03.579
place. Hey, relax. Hey, why don't you lay down?

01:15:03.760 --> 01:15:07.899
Chill out. Relax. And then reward with that affection.

01:15:08.520 --> 01:15:11.619
Right. So with the crate, it's like when we come

01:15:11.619 --> 01:15:13.979
in the house, the doorbell goes off and the dogs

01:15:13.979 --> 01:15:16.579
are automatically like, somebody's home. And

01:15:16.579 --> 01:15:19.079
if we let the doorbell go off and every time

01:15:19.079 --> 01:15:21.039
we just want to go let the dogs out immediately.

01:15:21.869 --> 01:15:23.430
That's their new signal that they should get

01:15:23.430 --> 01:15:25.250
stoked because somebody's there to let them out.

01:15:25.329 --> 01:15:27.750
And it's the sound of the opening and closing

01:15:27.750 --> 01:15:31.590
of the doorbell. Yeah. And instead, I encourage

01:15:31.590 --> 01:15:35.369
you, yeah, just leave the dog there for a little

01:15:35.369 --> 01:15:37.729
bit. Let them relax from that heightened state

01:15:37.729 --> 01:15:39.890
of, oh, mom or dad is home. Somebody's home to

01:15:39.890 --> 01:15:42.670
let me out. And just wait until they're relaxed

01:15:42.670 --> 01:15:45.109
and then go let them out. So come home and do

01:15:45.109 --> 01:15:47.640
something first. Yeah. And the only other time

01:15:47.640 --> 01:15:49.619
I can really think that's a big one is maybe

01:15:49.619 --> 01:15:53.100
just transitions from like playtime. You'll tell

01:15:53.100 --> 01:15:56.560
them to break. Because that could so easily just

01:15:56.560 --> 01:15:59.819
bleed into you come inside and then they're doing

01:15:59.819 --> 01:16:01.239
zoomies inside the house or they're bringing

01:16:01.239 --> 01:16:03.739
their toy inside the house. So just being careful

01:16:03.739 --> 01:16:06.220
with those transitions like playtime when they're

01:16:06.220 --> 01:16:08.920
already hyped up. Having a clear definitive cues

01:16:08.920 --> 01:16:11.520
and routine where like we're done with this now

01:16:11.520 --> 01:16:15.119
and now we're back on to. you know you listen

01:16:15.119 --> 01:16:18.020
and we're not doing the affection now yep yeah

01:16:18.020 --> 01:16:21.619
love that um all right so we're gonna finish

01:16:21.619 --> 01:16:25.239
this up with our two projects so every podcast

01:16:25.239 --> 01:16:28.659
i come up with two listener projects uh listener

01:16:28.659 --> 01:16:32.279
project number one today is the calm petting

01:16:32.279 --> 01:16:36.859
rule so only pet your dog When they're calm and

01:16:36.859 --> 01:16:39.039
neutral, not when they're excited, not when they're

01:16:39.039 --> 01:16:42.699
crazy. And if you reach down and you pet your

01:16:42.699 --> 01:16:47.039
dog and then they go wild and crazy, maybe decide

01:16:47.039 --> 01:16:49.880
if you're okay with moving forward with this

01:16:49.880 --> 01:16:54.239
plan and just pull back your affection just temporarily.

01:16:54.880 --> 01:16:57.579
Let everything calm down and then give it back.

01:16:57.960 --> 01:17:02.800
But if you continue to reward as they ramp up,

01:17:02.859 --> 01:17:04.659
they're at a five, you started petting them,

01:17:04.760 --> 01:17:06.420
and then they're at a six and a seven and an

01:17:06.420 --> 01:17:09.640
eight and a nine, you're not doing them any favors

01:17:09.640 --> 01:17:12.560
by continuing that process. It might be fun to

01:17:12.560 --> 01:17:16.220
watch them be super excited, but remember that

01:17:16.220 --> 01:17:18.960
an excited dog is not necessarily a happy dog.

01:17:19.159 --> 01:17:23.500
A happy dog is not an excited dog. That is a

01:17:23.500 --> 01:17:27.060
different frame of mind for dogs. It doesn't

01:17:27.060 --> 01:17:29.260
do us any good to ramp them all the way up to

01:17:29.260 --> 01:17:31.619
10 because nothing good is going to come from

01:17:31.619 --> 01:17:37.579
that. If they jump, they paw, they whine for

01:17:37.579 --> 01:17:40.119
attention, just ignore them until they settle.

01:17:40.439 --> 01:17:45.239
And then mark that calmness. We use yes to mark

01:17:45.239 --> 01:17:47.859
that calmness and then provide the affection.

01:17:48.859 --> 01:17:52.720
Project number two, earned affection. Just pick

01:17:52.720 --> 01:17:56.609
a daily routine like feeding. going outside,

01:17:56.729 --> 01:17:59.970
coming out of the kennel, whatever it is, and

01:17:59.970 --> 01:18:03.590
require a sit or a down before offering your

01:18:03.590 --> 01:18:06.630
affection. The exact same way that we would do

01:18:06.630 --> 01:18:09.390
with food, a treat, a toy, any other condition

01:18:09.390 --> 01:18:13.449
reinforcer, but use the affection. Pair calm

01:18:13.449 --> 01:18:18.729
compliance with petting or praise to make the

01:18:18.729 --> 01:18:22.869
affection the reward. All right, so that is going

01:18:22.869 --> 01:18:24.829
to wrap up those two projects. The last little

01:18:24.829 --> 01:18:26.609
piece of this is I'm going to open it up real

01:18:26.609 --> 01:18:29.449
quick one more time for questions. If you guys

01:18:29.449 --> 01:18:31.909
have a question over anything that we talked

01:18:31.909 --> 01:18:35.369
about, any of the live listeners tonight, go

01:18:35.369 --> 01:18:37.689
ahead and get your questions in now. Go ahead

01:18:37.689 --> 01:18:41.010
and unmute and just talk right over me. I'm just

01:18:41.010 --> 01:18:46.409
going to kind of fill the silence here. If the

01:18:46.409 --> 01:18:49.649
question is related to Nick, just kind of direct

01:18:49.649 --> 01:19:00.050
it right to Nick. Questions going once. Go ahead.

01:19:00.210 --> 01:19:04.189
I think Cliff had a question. Cliff. How are

01:19:04.189 --> 01:19:07.930
you? How are you doing? Good. Okay. I don't have

01:19:07.930 --> 01:19:09.890
a question for Nick, but I do appreciate all

01:19:09.890 --> 01:19:13.149
of his service in the military. Thank you. I

01:19:13.149 --> 01:19:17.270
appreciate the support. Chinoa has gotten to

01:19:17.270 --> 01:19:22.079
the point where. I'm working. My wife is disabled,

01:19:22.239 --> 01:19:25.239
so she takes the dogs out in the living room

01:19:25.239 --> 01:19:27.960
while I'm working from home. But if I leave the

01:19:27.960 --> 01:19:29.560
door open, she knows I've gotten in the habit.

01:19:29.800 --> 01:19:31.579
I don't think this was anything we ever really

01:19:31.579 --> 01:19:34.439
addressed, but she's doing that where she jumps

01:19:34.439 --> 01:19:36.640
on me and wants the attention. I'm trying to

01:19:36.640 --> 01:19:39.220
work. Just every topic you brought up tonight.

01:19:40.079 --> 01:19:43.739
And she just wants me to pet her or touch her

01:19:43.739 --> 01:19:45.560
or something. And I'm like, I need two hands

01:19:45.560 --> 01:19:50.770
to type on this keyboard. So what is the response

01:19:50.770 --> 01:19:53.789
I should be giving to her just to put her in

01:19:53.789 --> 01:19:59.109
place? So I know that Chenoa, because obviously

01:19:59.109 --> 01:20:01.409
we've worked together on this, so I know that

01:20:01.409 --> 01:20:06.829
Chenoa has a little place bed, right? Yes. I

01:20:06.829 --> 01:20:10.869
would move that in with you, like into the same

01:20:10.869 --> 01:20:14.949
room so that she can see you, but not necessarily

01:20:14.949 --> 01:20:18.899
be on top of you. Okay. And then work through

01:20:18.899 --> 01:20:22.359
that place. Right. And initially when you move

01:20:22.359 --> 01:20:24.439
a place bed, this is an important dog training

01:20:24.439 --> 01:20:28.779
concept is just because a dog learns that place

01:20:28.779 --> 01:20:31.619
means like I'm supposed to lay in this place

01:20:31.619 --> 01:20:34.479
when it's over here. Sometimes when you change

01:20:34.479 --> 01:20:38.159
the events and you change the area, you may just

01:20:38.159 --> 01:20:41.819
have to like go back a step or two in order to

01:20:41.819 --> 01:20:45.680
reinforce. Hey, the same behavior is expected

01:20:45.680 --> 01:20:48.520
over here as it was over there. So just be ready

01:20:48.520 --> 01:20:51.420
for that. But I would move the place bed and

01:20:51.420 --> 01:20:58.140
use that as an alternative. Like, hey, I am telling

01:20:58.140 --> 01:21:00.840
you, no, you need to be on place. And then you

01:21:00.840 --> 01:21:03.439
have to hold her accountable to that. It will

01:21:03.439 --> 01:21:07.539
be annoying at first when we are like, well,

01:21:07.600 --> 01:21:10.319
I've told the dog what to do and they're not

01:21:10.319 --> 01:21:12.939
doing it. Well, now I have to get up. I have

01:21:12.939 --> 01:21:14.720
to take a moment. I have to put her back over

01:21:14.720 --> 01:21:17.260
there. But that's super, super important because

01:21:17.260 --> 01:21:21.399
if you don't hold Chenoa accountable, and coming

01:21:21.399 --> 01:21:26.739
from me training her, if you don't hold her accountable,

01:21:26.920 --> 01:21:31.279
she will find all of those weak points. But she

01:21:31.279 --> 01:21:33.619
does very, very, very good with place, and I

01:21:33.619 --> 01:21:36.079
know that she does well with place. So I know

01:21:36.079 --> 01:21:38.119
that we can work through that. Yeah, she will

01:21:38.119 --> 01:21:40.500
play with me. Sometimes she fights me tooth and

01:21:40.500 --> 01:21:42.720
nail, but it's like I told you the first time

01:21:42.720 --> 01:21:44.239
we met, which I think you said you were going

01:21:44.239 --> 01:21:47.380
to use in your training, that it's not the dog

01:21:47.380 --> 01:21:50.899
that's hard to train, it's their humans. Sometimes.

01:21:52.239 --> 01:21:54.380
She does good playing with me when I need her

01:21:54.380 --> 01:21:58.199
to. Yeah, she has her moments. But the other

01:21:58.199 --> 01:22:01.140
situation is we have had the flu bug run through

01:22:01.140 --> 01:22:05.399
our house. And, of course, we have a very energetic.

01:22:06.319 --> 01:22:10.840
eight month old bulldog and we both need to i

01:22:10.840 --> 01:22:13.180
mean i don't think i woke up for more than an

01:22:13.180 --> 01:22:15.619
hour on saturday and sunday oh my goodness and

01:22:15.619 --> 01:22:18.420
it was just very hard to you know you still have

01:22:18.420 --> 01:22:21.939
to obviously they still need you so sick or not

01:22:21.939 --> 01:22:25.100
you've got to still provide so is there i mean

01:22:25.100 --> 01:22:27.520
i i felt bad just kind of leaving her in the

01:22:27.520 --> 01:22:29.859
kennel for longer than usual but obviously this

01:22:29.859 --> 01:22:32.539
isn't gonna be a it shouldn't be a big issue

01:22:32.539 --> 01:22:36.810
should it have been or just I don't think that

01:22:36.810 --> 01:22:40.350
it's a, it's a big issue to intermittently leave

01:22:40.350 --> 01:22:43.010
a dog in a kennel longer than you normally do.

01:22:43.229 --> 01:22:46.210
And I know that you're not leaving her in there

01:22:46.210 --> 01:22:49.170
for like 12 or 14 hours at a time either. So,

01:22:49.170 --> 01:22:54.210
but I think that it is, I mean, if, did she have

01:22:54.210 --> 01:22:59.170
an accident in the crate? No. Right. So, I mean,

01:22:59.170 --> 01:23:03.500
she did, she did great. She does. Unless she

01:23:03.500 --> 01:23:05.520
has been sick to her stomach, she has a very

01:23:05.520 --> 01:23:08.399
sensitive stomach. I won't let her have anything

01:23:08.399 --> 01:23:11.380
else except for her kibble and the few types

01:23:11.380 --> 01:23:14.279
of treats that we allow her to have. She has

01:23:14.279 --> 01:23:16.159
a very sensitive stomach, and she gets anything

01:23:16.159 --> 01:23:19.000
else, and she will just, boom, it's a nightmare.

01:23:19.260 --> 01:23:21.279
And I definitely didn't want that during being

01:23:21.279 --> 01:23:24.039
sick. Yeah, yeah. No, I wouldn't do anything

01:23:24.039 --> 01:23:31.909
different. Here's the thing. regularly and consistently

01:23:31.909 --> 01:23:36.050
impacts the dog's learning process what you do

01:23:36.050 --> 01:23:41.189
once in a while has a significantly less of an

01:23:41.189 --> 01:23:45.140
effect and so at the end of the day You're not

01:23:45.140 --> 01:23:47.939
doing those things to, you're not leaving them

01:23:47.939 --> 01:23:51.319
in the kennel for a long time because you wanted

01:23:51.319 --> 01:23:54.760
to, like you literally have a, a, a health issue,

01:23:54.819 --> 01:23:58.739
right? Like, and, and she survived. She's, she's

01:23:58.739 --> 01:24:02.020
still fed. She still has water. She's still doing

01:24:02.020 --> 01:24:05.000
great. And she didn't even have an accident in

01:24:05.000 --> 01:24:07.260
the kennel. I would not feel guilty about that

01:24:07.260 --> 01:24:09.199
or, or feel like you're doing the wrong thing.

01:24:09.420 --> 01:24:12.840
Yeah, and when I feel like I can't physically

01:24:12.840 --> 01:24:15.439
like provide for the dogs, I will find ways to

01:24:15.439 --> 01:24:17.779
mentally stimulate them. So like food puzzles

01:24:17.779 --> 01:24:20.840
and giving them some decompression time with

01:24:20.840 --> 01:24:23.699
like chewing and sniffing and doing scatter feeding

01:24:23.699 --> 01:24:25.880
instead of feeding them in a bowl, right? Like

01:24:25.880 --> 01:24:27.420
putting it on your carpet and like spreading

01:24:27.420 --> 01:24:29.539
it all around to let them kind of work their

01:24:29.539 --> 01:24:31.500
way through it. Doing different things like that

01:24:31.500 --> 01:24:34.140
that can mentally stimulate the dog are always

01:24:34.140 --> 01:24:36.319
going to be better than physical stimulation.

01:24:37.359 --> 01:24:41.489
Okay. I did have one other question in regards

01:24:41.489 --> 01:24:44.210
to the potty training. I know this first incident

01:24:44.210 --> 01:24:48.109
was my own fault, but we get up at 6 .30 in the

01:24:48.109 --> 01:24:50.430
morning, and I let her out, usually 6 .30 to

01:24:50.430 --> 01:24:58.029
7, and she's outside parking. So I let her out.

01:24:58.069 --> 01:25:00.750
I find that I need to go stand out there to watch

01:25:00.750 --> 01:25:03.659
her, but this one morning I made a mistake. And

01:25:03.659 --> 01:25:05.800
I just let her in, and I fed her. We gave her

01:25:05.800 --> 01:25:07.920
a slow feeder now, so she's not just gobbling

01:25:07.920 --> 01:25:13.920
it all down. And so she came back in, and I went

01:25:13.920 --> 01:25:15.699
to work, and I was sitting there, and she was

01:25:15.699 --> 01:25:18.140
kind of sitting by me. And all of a sudden, she

01:25:18.140 --> 01:25:21.260
was gone. And Jen, of course, was sick, so I

01:25:21.260 --> 01:25:25.359
was trying to let her rest. And then she came

01:25:25.359 --> 01:25:27.439
in, and it was gone, and I just had this feeling

01:25:27.439 --> 01:25:30.340
like something's going down. And she had peed

01:25:30.340 --> 01:25:32.939
on the floor. My only saving grace is she usually

01:25:32.939 --> 01:25:35.640
likes to pee on the carpet. She peed on the linoleum.

01:25:35.659 --> 01:25:40.699
So I was very thankful for that. And then, you

01:25:40.699 --> 01:25:42.739
know, I, of course, cleaned it up, put her outside.

01:25:43.020 --> 01:25:46.180
Just, you know, I didn't raise my voice at her.

01:25:46.220 --> 01:25:47.659
I just, you know, she knew she had done wrong.

01:25:48.600 --> 01:25:53.140
And so then I brought her back in. And, you know,

01:25:53.159 --> 01:25:55.500
we had a little time with her. And then she...

01:25:56.039 --> 01:25:58.659
I went back to work and same thing. She was there

01:25:58.659 --> 01:26:00.520
and all of a sudden she was gone. And she came

01:26:00.520 --> 01:26:03.359
back in here and pooped. But she's like going

01:26:03.359 --> 01:26:05.460
to the back door because that's where she knows

01:26:05.460 --> 01:26:07.840
she needs to go out. But she's not letting me

01:26:07.840 --> 01:26:09.859
know that she needs to go out there. I know you

01:26:09.859 --> 01:26:12.260
guys had talked about, well, we need to give

01:26:12.260 --> 01:26:15.840
her her time that she goes out. So these were

01:26:15.840 --> 01:26:18.720
very unexpected things. But my only saving grace

01:26:18.720 --> 01:26:21.800
is she did it on the linoleum instead of the

01:26:21.800 --> 01:26:26.289
carpet. I gotcha. So we address that in three

01:26:26.289 --> 01:26:30.229
ways. So one, we let dogs out on a kind of a

01:26:30.229 --> 01:26:33.550
cyclical basis of a certain amount of time that

01:26:33.550 --> 01:26:36.609
we are confident that a dog is able to hold it.

01:26:36.770 --> 01:26:41.010
Number two, when we're not able to really like

01:26:41.010 --> 01:26:44.750
focus on the dog, we usually have a dog in place

01:26:44.750 --> 01:26:51.510
or in a crate. by that level of confinement can

01:26:51.510 --> 01:26:58.270
be kind of variant. But that allows us to then

01:26:58.270 --> 01:27:01.029
focus on what we're doing versus letting the

01:27:01.029 --> 01:27:03.689
dog, especially an eight -month -old puppy, who

01:27:03.689 --> 01:27:09.989
is going to inevitably make or get into trouble,

01:27:10.069 --> 01:27:12.210
right? Make a decision that you don't want or

01:27:12.210 --> 01:27:16.010
make a mistake. And then the third thing is that

01:27:16.720 --> 01:27:21.079
just dogs in general will once in a while make

01:27:21.079 --> 01:27:23.800
a mistake right or they'll do something wrong

01:27:23.800 --> 01:27:27.560
and be like uh whoops right and like pee or poop

01:27:27.560 --> 01:27:29.560
in their kennel and then they're like standing

01:27:29.560 --> 01:27:32.380
it and they're like oh well that was that was

01:27:32.380 --> 01:27:36.100
dumb i shouldn't have done that but that is also

01:27:36.100 --> 01:27:38.619
how they learn right as long as you're not creating

01:27:39.239 --> 01:27:42.880
a trend as long as we're not creating a a trend

01:27:42.880 --> 01:27:47.739
or seeing a continuation of that behavior i don't

01:27:47.739 --> 01:27:49.899
chalk up i don't put a lot of weight behind it

01:27:49.899 --> 01:27:52.939
at the point where she's continuing to do this

01:27:52.939 --> 01:27:55.840
well now you got to ask yourself is my structure

01:27:55.840 --> 01:27:59.079
in place and am i adhering to it and holding

01:27:59.079 --> 01:28:02.359
her accountable with that structure right and

01:28:02.359 --> 01:28:06.020
i think that that's pro i feel like the the wrapping

01:28:06.020 --> 01:28:08.989
back to the first question is that putting that

01:28:08.989 --> 01:28:12.550
place, if I'd had her there on a place and not

01:28:12.550 --> 01:28:15.529
allowed her to get off, then she would have,

01:28:15.529 --> 01:28:18.130
you know, she would have notified me, Hey, I

01:28:18.130 --> 01:28:21.449
really need to go outside. Right. So we have,

01:28:21.550 --> 01:28:25.390
we have dogs that it's called it's there's a

01:28:25.390 --> 01:28:27.550
syndrome, right? It's called like dirty dog syndrome

01:28:27.550 --> 01:28:31.170
where a dog will just use the bathroom, like

01:28:31.170 --> 01:28:33.970
in its space, which dogs don't typically do.

01:28:34.409 --> 01:28:38.770
And one way around that and to fix that, after

01:28:38.770 --> 01:28:41.609
like modifying other things is to put them in

01:28:41.609 --> 01:28:43.489
a position where they don't have that option

01:28:43.489 --> 01:28:46.609
so it's putting them into a down in their kennel

01:28:46.609 --> 01:28:49.630
or on a place bed or something like that so that

01:28:49.630 --> 01:28:53.529
then you you really know if there's a situation

01:28:53.529 --> 01:28:55.850
involved of where you need to let them out to

01:28:55.850 --> 01:28:58.010
the bathroom or whether they're just getting

01:28:58.010 --> 01:29:00.770
up so that they can cause a ruckus and do things

01:29:00.770 --> 01:29:03.550
right so that would be one of like my top solutions

01:29:03.550 --> 01:29:06.029
is put her on a place bed and put her in a down

01:29:06.029 --> 01:29:08.270
and if she breaks it down it's like you just

01:29:08.270 --> 01:29:10.430
keep putting her back into the down and if you

01:29:10.430 --> 01:29:13.310
you feel or know that she needs to go to the

01:29:13.310 --> 01:29:15.310
bathroom and it's been a long enough time where

01:29:15.310 --> 01:29:17.609
she's consumed an extra amount of food or water

01:29:17.609 --> 01:29:20.270
then take her out on a leash let her go to the

01:29:20.270 --> 01:29:22.989
bathroom but if she doesn't go it's not an option

01:29:22.989 --> 01:29:25.210
of playing it's an option of going to the bathroom

01:29:25.210 --> 01:29:26.789
and if you're not going to go we're going back

01:29:26.789 --> 01:29:28.270
inside and we're going to lay back down on the

01:29:28.270 --> 01:29:33.210
place but Right. Okay. And then, and also when

01:29:33.210 --> 01:29:35.989
they're in place that they start whining, do

01:29:35.989 --> 01:29:38.829
we just ignore that for the most part, unless

01:29:38.829 --> 01:29:42.289
it's a contingent or just like you'd said earlier,

01:29:42.350 --> 01:29:44.210
it's just a kid trying to get attention. Yeah.

01:29:44.210 --> 01:29:47.310
Yeah. If she starts whining and that you're good,

01:29:47.350 --> 01:29:50.130
if she starts whining, you have the opportunity

01:29:50.130 --> 01:29:53.149
right now while things are fresh to just. Ignore

01:29:53.149 --> 01:29:56.369
that and not react to it. If you do react to

01:29:56.369 --> 01:29:59.069
it and you do give her that engagement, you're

01:29:59.069 --> 01:30:02.409
going to reinforce the fact that she can whine

01:30:02.409 --> 01:30:04.270
and at least get your attention, even if it's

01:30:04.270 --> 01:30:06.489
negative. Right. That's what I always say is

01:30:06.489 --> 01:30:08.590
negative attention is still attention to a dog.

01:30:08.810 --> 01:30:11.869
Right. She's trying to do that, but trying to

01:30:11.869 --> 01:30:14.090
get your attention and engagement. That's why

01:30:14.090 --> 01:30:17.409
she's like trying to, you know, get your hand

01:30:17.409 --> 01:30:20.010
or whatever far away from the laptop. Right.

01:30:20.649 --> 01:30:24.590
And our whole routine between, of course, you

01:30:24.590 --> 01:30:26.130
know, all the travel we did this summer and then

01:30:26.130 --> 01:30:30.130
since we've been back from Tennessee, it's just

01:30:30.130 --> 01:30:32.630
been illness. And our whole routine's been off.

01:30:32.670 --> 01:30:35.270
She hasn't had her walks or anything. And then

01:30:35.270 --> 01:30:40.050
she developed a sore on her neck from her collar,

01:30:40.229 --> 01:30:44.210
I guess, got too tight and got punctured in there.

01:30:44.760 --> 01:30:47.939
So we've had to loosen that up cause you don't,

01:30:47.939 --> 01:30:50.520
you don't want that. And then, and then just,

01:30:50.619 --> 01:30:52.939
I would, I would get her right back on that schedule.

01:30:53.020 --> 01:30:54.819
The faster you get her back on that schedule.

01:30:54.880 --> 01:30:56.920
I know you guys have been sick. The faster you

01:30:56.920 --> 01:30:58.880
do that, the faster like things are going to

01:30:58.880 --> 01:31:00.819
return back to normal. She definitely needs that

01:31:00.819 --> 01:31:04.039
exercise cause she's, she's a puppy too. Well,

01:31:04.119 --> 01:31:06.100
I appreciate all your guys' help. I'm still waiting

01:31:06.100 --> 01:31:08.979
for those human classes where you can. The humans

01:31:08.979 --> 01:31:10.739
come and stay for three weeks to learn what they're

01:31:10.739 --> 01:31:13.180
supposed to do. All right. I gotcha. Thanks,

01:31:13.300 --> 01:31:15.800
Cliff. Thanks for the question. Thank you. Anybody

01:31:15.800 --> 01:31:18.380
else have a question for us tonight before we

01:31:18.380 --> 01:31:26.239
wrap it up? All right. We're going to start moving

01:31:26.239 --> 01:31:31.199
for the door here. I want to give a special shout

01:31:31.199 --> 01:31:35.899
out and thanks to Nick for coming to the podcast

01:31:35.899 --> 01:31:38.420
tonight and for taking your time. I really appreciate

01:31:38.420 --> 01:31:40.039
it. Thank you for having me. It was a great time

01:31:40.039 --> 01:31:43.960
being here. Thank you. Thank you for being so

01:31:43.960 --> 01:31:46.779
gracious and, and hanging out with the pet dog

01:31:46.779 --> 01:31:50.390
trainers for a little bit. I aspire to be one.

01:31:51.850 --> 01:31:55.069
Melody, thanks for showing your face back in

01:31:55.069 --> 01:31:57.930
the general neighborhood. It was great to be

01:31:57.930 --> 01:32:00.430
back. Thank you for having me. I appreciate you

01:32:00.430 --> 01:32:05.270
being here. So for wrapping it up tonight, I...

01:32:05.790 --> 01:32:08.289
Really appreciate everybody tuning in. If you

01:32:08.289 --> 01:32:12.930
get a chance, I would love to hear about how

01:32:12.930 --> 01:32:14.930
we're doing and what we can do better. If you

01:32:14.930 --> 01:32:18.510
got a comment or a concern, drop it in whatever

01:32:18.510 --> 01:32:22.310
way you're listening to this later. I'd also

01:32:22.310 --> 01:32:26.369
love, I think we have, we're up to like 25 podcast

01:32:26.369 --> 01:32:31.770
listeners. I'd love to have a review at some

01:32:31.770 --> 01:32:34.430
point. Let us know how we're doing. If we need

01:32:34.430 --> 01:32:37.279
to change things, We'll do our best. It's a work

01:32:37.279 --> 01:32:39.920
in progress, but we're here for it. Thanks for

01:32:39.920 --> 01:32:42.180
tuning in to Pauper and Academy. Good night.

01:32:42.279 --> 01:33:22.710
Good night. Good night. Good night. Recording

01:33:22.710 --> 01:33:22.989
stopped.