WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:03.240 Imagine mastering the English language so thoroughly 00:00:03.240 --> 00:00:06.799 that you win the Pulitzer Prize. You completely 00:00:06.799 --> 00:00:09.220 dominate the bestseller lists. Right. Universally 00:00:09.220 --> 00:00:11.400 hailed as a defining voice of your generation. 00:00:12.000 --> 00:00:15.380 Exactly. And then, right at the absolute peak 00:00:15.380 --> 00:00:17.120 of your career, you wake up one day and just 00:00:17.120 --> 00:00:20.579 decide, you know what? I am intentionally never 00:00:20.579 --> 00:00:22.600 going to write in English again. It sounds completely 00:00:22.600 --> 00:00:24.539 counterintuitive. It really does. You decide 00:00:24.539 --> 00:00:26.320 you're going to become a complete beginner in 00:00:26.320 --> 00:00:29.219 a language you barely even know. And that is 00:00:29.219 --> 00:00:32.299 exactly what Jhumpa Lahiri did. So welcome to 00:00:32.299 --> 00:00:34.560 today's Deep Dive. We are so glad you're here 00:00:34.560 --> 00:00:36.500 with us. Yeah, thanks for joining us. Because 00:00:36.500 --> 00:00:40.659 this really is one of the most fascinating artistic 00:00:40.659 --> 00:00:44.240 pivots of the modern era. It really is. So today, 00:00:44.479 --> 00:00:48.100 our sole source material is this incredibly comprehensive 00:00:48.039 --> 00:00:51.159 of biographical article that maps out Lahiri's 00:00:51.159 --> 00:00:54.159 whole evolution. And our mission for you on this 00:00:54.159 --> 00:00:57.159 deep dive is to basically trace that exact path. 00:00:57.159 --> 00:00:59.460 Right, from the very beginning. Yeah, how a child 00:00:59.460 --> 00:01:03.820 who was deeply burdened by this hyphenated identity 00:01:03.820 --> 00:01:06.400 grows up to become the preeminent voice for the 00:01:06.400 --> 00:01:08.840 Indian American experience, only to eventually 00:01:08.840 --> 00:01:11.799 and intentionally burn down her own established 00:01:11.799 --> 00:01:14.480 literary house just to build a new one from scratch. 00:01:14.659 --> 00:01:16.819 Do you really understand why she would do that? 00:01:17.579 --> 00:01:19.620 The overarching theme I want you to keep in mind 00:01:19.620 --> 00:01:22.219 today is this whole concept of belonging. Because 00:01:22.219 --> 00:01:25.000 Lahiri's life and really the mechanics of her 00:01:25.000 --> 00:01:28.040 writing, they're a lifelong study of what it 00:01:28.040 --> 00:01:30.280 actually means to be pulled between two completely 00:01:30.280 --> 00:01:32.359 different worlds. Oh, absolutely. It's all about 00:01:32.359 --> 00:01:35.099 how you navigate that tension and ultimately 00:01:35.099 --> 00:01:38.700 how you can use that exact friction to engineer 00:01:38.700 --> 00:01:40.920 a completely new reality for yourself. So let's 00:01:40.920 --> 00:01:42.599 actually look at where that friction begins, 00:01:42.840 --> 00:01:45.140 because, I mean, it started literally the moment 00:01:45.140 --> 00:01:47.920 she learned to speak. Right. She was born Milinjana 00:01:47.920 --> 00:01:51.239 Sudashana Lahiri in London to Bengali immigrants. 00:01:51.680 --> 00:01:55.420 And the family eventually settled in the US in 00:01:55.420 --> 00:01:57.760 Rhode Island when she was just three years old. 00:01:57.840 --> 00:02:00.379 Just a toddler. Yeah. But the linguistic divide 00:02:00.379 --> 00:02:03.000 in her childhood home was absolute. I mean, her 00:02:03.000 --> 00:02:05.280 mother was fiercely protective of their heritage. 00:02:05.379 --> 00:02:07.299 In fact, she was strictly forbidden from speaking 00:02:07.310 --> 00:02:09.969 any language other than Bengali at home until 00:02:09.969 --> 00:02:12.550 she was four years old. Which, you know, is a 00:02:12.550 --> 00:02:16.729 really profound way to wire a young brain. Her 00:02:16.729 --> 00:02:19.430 home wasn't just casually Bengali. It was an 00:02:19.430 --> 00:02:22.750 absolute sanctuary sanctuary. Yeah, her mother 00:02:22.750 --> 00:02:25.110 wrote Bengali poetry. They maintained these deep 00:02:25.110 --> 00:02:27.810 ties. They took trips back to Calcutta. But the 00:02:27.810 --> 00:02:29.830 moment Lahiri crossed the threshold of her front 00:02:29.830 --> 00:02:33.250 door and stepped outside. boom, she was instantly 00:02:33.250 --> 00:02:35.530 in America. It creates this immediate double 00:02:35.530 --> 00:02:38.169 life. And I imagine it's not just about knowing 00:02:38.169 --> 00:02:40.889 two languages, but literally having to map your 00:02:40.889 --> 00:02:44.969 brain to two conflicting sets of cultural expectations. 00:02:45.030 --> 00:02:47.129 Oh, completely. Different social rules, depending 00:02:47.129 --> 00:02:48.650 on which side of the front door you're standing 00:02:48.650 --> 00:02:51.569 on. And she actually picked up English incredibly 00:02:51.569 --> 00:02:55.409 fast, which her parents, especially her mother, 00:02:55.610 --> 00:02:58.110 deeply disliked. But the real collision happened 00:02:58.110 --> 00:02:59.750 when she started kindergarten. Right, the name 00:02:59.750 --> 00:03:02.110 issue. Yeah. Her teachers looked at her given 00:03:02.110 --> 00:03:05.550 names, Nilanjana Sudeshna, and essentially decided, 00:03:05.590 --> 00:03:07.849 you know, these are just too much work to pronounce. 00:03:07.949 --> 00:03:10.110 Which is so frustrating. It really is. So they 00:03:10.110 --> 00:03:12.590 just opted to use her home pet name, Jhumpa, 00:03:12.770 --> 00:03:15.250 instead. Because it was easier for them. And, 00:03:15.289 --> 00:03:18.550 I mean, that is a quiet, yet massive psychological 00:03:18.550 --> 00:03:20.800 event for a child. Okay, let's unpack this for 00:03:20.800 --> 00:03:22.439 a second because I was thinking about the mechanics 00:03:22.439 --> 00:03:25.199 of this and it's essentially an act of forced 00:03:25.199 --> 00:03:28.520 erasure. It's like imagine she arrived at school 00:03:28.520 --> 00:03:32.259 holding this beautiful, intricate, hand -woven 00:03:32.259 --> 00:03:35.900 family heirloom and society just slapped a generic 00:03:35.900 --> 00:03:38.539 plastic name tag over it because it was, you 00:03:38.539 --> 00:03:40.719 know, more convenient for the majority. That 00:03:40.719 --> 00:03:43.180 is a great way to conceptualize it. The convenience 00:03:43.180 --> 00:03:45.539 of the majority often dictates the identity of 00:03:45.539 --> 00:03:47.860 the minority. Exactly. And what's really fascinating 00:03:47.860 --> 00:03:51.419 here is how deeply Lahiri internalized that specific 00:03:51.419 --> 00:03:54.669 moment. She later recalled feeling that she was, 00:03:54.750 --> 00:03:57.009 and this is a direct quote from the source, causing 00:03:57.009 --> 00:03:59.770 someone pain just by being who you are. Wow, 00:04:00.229 --> 00:04:01.969 causing someone pain just by being who you are, 00:04:02.009 --> 00:04:05.909 that is heavy. Right. Imagine carrying that specific 00:04:05.909 --> 00:04:07.909 emotional architecture as a five -year -old. 00:04:08.289 --> 00:04:10.969 She felt this immense unresolvable pressure. 00:04:11.150 --> 00:04:13.750 Yeah, I can only imagine. She had be totally 00:04:13.750 --> 00:04:16.410 loyal to the old world of her parents. preserving 00:04:16.410 --> 00:04:19.750 their culture while simultaneously being flawlessly 00:04:19.750 --> 00:04:22.730 fluent and integrated into the new world. She 00:04:22.730 --> 00:04:24.990 realized very early on that she couldn't fully 00:04:24.990 --> 00:04:27.689 be either. without fundamentally disappointing 00:04:27.689 --> 00:04:30.350 the other. Which is just an impossible tightrope 00:04:30.350 --> 00:04:32.370 to walk. And, you know, it makes perfect sense 00:04:32.370 --> 00:04:35.029 that this very ambivalence, that deep discomfort 00:04:35.029 --> 00:04:38.290 with her own name, becomes the direct inspiration 00:04:38.290 --> 00:04:41.050 for her novel The Namesake years later. Oh, absolutely. 00:04:41.250 --> 00:04:43.910 The protagonist Gogol struggles with the exact 00:04:43.910 --> 00:04:46.670 same thing, having an unusual name that feels 00:04:46.670 --> 00:04:49.029 like this heavy, awkward garment he's forced 00:04:49.029 --> 00:04:51.370 to wear in public. Exactly. Gogol's struggle 00:04:51.370 --> 00:04:53.769 is Lahiri's struggle literally translated onto 00:04:53.769 --> 00:04:56.269 the page. But because she couldn't fully express 00:04:56.269 --> 00:04:58.449 that complexity out loud as a kid without causing 00:04:58.449 --> 00:05:00.649 friction, it kind of forced her inward. She had 00:05:00.649 --> 00:05:02.769 to find a space where she controlled the narrative. 00:05:03.089 --> 00:05:05.110 Which brings us to her secret life as a writer. 00:05:05.509 --> 00:05:08.970 Yes. As a child, she committed what she calls 00:05:08.970 --> 00:05:12.230 her very first dishonest act, which was stealing 00:05:12.230 --> 00:05:14.990 extra notebooks from the school supply closets. 00:05:15.069 --> 00:05:17.470 I love that detail. Right. She would take them 00:05:17.470 --> 00:05:20.329 and write fiction in secret, mostly stories about 00:05:20.329 --> 00:05:24.410 the victims of mean girls. And she never ever 00:05:24.410 --> 00:05:27.329 showed them to adults. The stealing of the notebooks 00:05:27.329 --> 00:05:30.949 is incredibly telling. It highlights that for 00:05:30.949 --> 00:05:33.850 her, the act of writing felt transgressive. Yeah, 00:05:33.889 --> 00:05:36.029 like she wasn't supposed to be doing it. Exactly. 00:05:36.470 --> 00:05:38.889 It wasn't some hobby she proudly shared. It was 00:05:38.889 --> 00:05:41.370 a private sanctuary, a place where she alone 00:05:41.370 --> 00:05:44.290 made the rules, completely free from the expectations 00:05:44.290 --> 00:05:47.160 of both her parents and her teachers. She was 00:05:47.160 --> 00:05:49.079 already practicing looking at the world from 00:05:49.079 --> 00:05:51.519 an alien perspective. I mean, she even self -published 00:05:51.519 --> 00:05:53.899 a book for a school contest at age nine called 00:05:53.899 --> 00:05:56.379 The Life of a Weighing Scale. Oh, right. And 00:05:56.379 --> 00:05:58.459 it is written entirely from the perspective of 00:05:58.459 --> 00:06:01.079 a bathroom scale, which is just a brilliant metaphor 00:06:01.079 --> 00:06:03.759 for observation without participation. You just 00:06:03.759 --> 00:06:05.980 sit there and quietly measure the weight of the 00:06:05.980 --> 00:06:08.360 people who step on you. That's so profound for 00:06:08.360 --> 00:06:11.519 a nine -year -old. It is. But as she got older, 00:06:11.519 --> 00:06:14.839 you know, into her teens and 20s, that quiet 00:06:14.839 --> 00:06:17.899 confidence kind of evaporated. She faced serious 00:06:17.899 --> 00:06:20.540 burnout. She really did. She went to Boston University, 00:06:20.740 --> 00:06:23.379 eventually collecting multiple degrees. But she 00:06:23.379 --> 00:06:26.279 was deeply ambivalent about academia. Yeah, she 00:06:26.279 --> 00:06:28.519 was living in a rented room, working a bookstore 00:06:28.519 --> 00:06:30.939 register. Right. Just typing out story fragments 00:06:30.939 --> 00:06:33.439 on a typewriter when she was completely alone 00:06:33.439 --> 00:06:36.899 and facing this massive wall of rejection from 00:06:36.899 --> 00:06:39.439 literary magazines. She even worked on unpaid 00:06:39.439 --> 00:06:41.759 interest. at a magazine writing these really 00:06:41.759 --> 00:06:44.319 flattering little items about consumer products. 00:06:44.480 --> 00:06:47.100 Yeah, it's almost the ultimate hollow use of 00:06:47.100 --> 00:06:50.560 language. Using your voice to sell blenders or 00:06:50.560 --> 00:06:53.120 whatever when you have this massive cultural 00:06:53.120 --> 00:06:55.300 narrative inside you just waiting to get out. 00:06:55.360 --> 00:06:57.439 It perfectly captures the struggle of the emerging 00:06:57.439 --> 00:07:01.519 artist. The desire to create is burning inside, 00:07:02.139 --> 00:07:04.259 but you are still searching for the courage to 00:07:04.259 --> 00:07:06.319 actually put your authentic voice onto the page 00:07:06.319 --> 00:07:09.300 and risk being seen. And the turning point finally 00:07:09.300 --> 00:07:12.500 comes in her late 20s. She audaciously asks to 00:07:12.500 --> 00:07:14.639 sit in on a creative writing class at BU that 00:07:14.639 --> 00:07:16.839 she wasn't even enrolled in. Talk about taking 00:07:16.839 --> 00:07:19.459 a leap. Yeah, and the director makes an exception 00:07:19.459 --> 00:07:22.639 for her. And then at age 30, everything just 00:07:22.639 --> 00:07:25.959 clicks. She writes the story A Temporary Matter. 00:07:26.319 --> 00:07:28.819 It becomes the anchor for her debut short story 00:07:28.819 --> 00:07:31.120 collection, Interpreter of Maladies, which is 00:07:31.120 --> 00:07:34.000 published in 1999. And it is an absolute phenomenon. 00:07:34.100 --> 00:07:37.839 Oh, massive. It sells 600 ,000 copies and wins 00:07:37.839 --> 00:07:40.519 the Pulitzer Prize for fiction. Which just catapults 00:07:40.519 --> 00:07:43.930 her from a struggling academic to the absolute 00:07:43.930 --> 00:07:46.149 center of the literary world. But here's where 00:07:46.149 --> 00:07:48.050 it gets really interesting. We assume it was 00:07:48.050 --> 00:07:50.490 universally loved, right? But didn't it actually 00:07:50.490 --> 00:07:52.870 get a pretty mixed reception back in India? Yeah, 00:07:52.910 --> 00:07:55.029 it did. And this is where the reception of the 00:07:55.029 --> 00:07:57.910 book reveals the exact cultural fault lines she 00:07:57.910 --> 00:08:00.610 was writing about. How so? Well, American critics 00:08:00.610 --> 00:08:03.410 absolutely lauded the book for its elegant prose. 00:08:04.009 --> 00:08:06.689 But back in India, the reception wasn't nearly 00:08:06.689 --> 00:08:09.629 as universally glowing. Some reviewers were actually 00:08:09.629 --> 00:08:12.089 quite upset. They felt she didn't paint Indians 00:08:12.089 --> 00:08:15.730 in a positive idealized light. And this reaction 00:08:15.730 --> 00:08:18.410 gets to the very heart of the diaspora experience. 00:08:19.110 --> 00:08:21.250 When an immigrant community establishes itself 00:08:21.250 --> 00:08:24.990 in a new country, there is often a deep nostalgic 00:08:24.990 --> 00:08:28.569 desire to project a frozen, idealized version 00:08:28.569 --> 00:08:30.730 of the homeland. Right, like an unbroken image. 00:08:30.990 --> 00:08:33.950 Exactly. But Lahiri wasn't writing propaganda. 00:08:34.169 --> 00:08:37.309 She was showing the messy, deeply flawed human 00:08:37.309 --> 00:08:40.470 reality of these characters. Marital infidelity, 00:08:40.970 --> 00:08:44.399 profound grief, disconnection. For some readers 00:08:44.399 --> 00:08:46.899 back in India, exposing that dirty laundry to 00:08:46.899 --> 00:08:49.299 a Western audience felt like an act of betrayal. 00:08:49.580 --> 00:08:51.940 Which perfectly mirrors that childhood realization 00:08:51.940 --> 00:08:53.980 we talked about earlier. Once again, she was 00:08:53.980 --> 00:08:55.919 causing pain just by being who she was, just 00:08:55.919 --> 00:08:58.120 by writing the truth as she observed it. But 00:08:58.120 --> 00:09:00.740 instead of retreating into safer, more idealized 00:09:00.740 --> 00:09:03.259 territory, she just doubles down on the messy 00:09:03.259 --> 00:09:05.960 reality for her next major work, The Namesake. 00:09:06.139 --> 00:09:08.419 She really does. And the actual genesis of this 00:09:08.419 --> 00:09:10.960 novel relies on a mechanism that is almost impossible 00:09:10.960 --> 00:09:13.440 to believe. It was heavily influenced by a real 00:09:13.440 --> 00:09:15.659 story from her own family history. This story 00:09:15.659 --> 00:09:19.059 is wild. It is. Her father's cousin was involved 00:09:19.059 --> 00:09:22.059 in a catastrophic train wreck in India. And the 00:09:22.059 --> 00:09:24.480 only reason he survived the wreckage was because 00:09:24.480 --> 00:09:27.240 rescue workers spotted a beam of light reflecting 00:09:27.240 --> 00:09:30.279 off the watch he was wearing. It is just a staggering 00:09:30.279 --> 00:09:33.700 image. It really is. And Lahiri takes that visceral 00:09:33.700 --> 00:09:37.179 family lore and engineers it into fiction. In 00:09:37.179 --> 00:09:39.600 the namesake, the protagonist's father is saved 00:09:39.600 --> 00:09:42.279 in a very similar train wreck. Right. But instead 00:09:42.279 --> 00:09:45.059 of a watch, a rescuer's flashlight eliminates 00:09:45.059 --> 00:09:47.120 a fluttering white page of a book he happened 00:09:47.120 --> 00:09:49.460 to be reading by the Russian author Nikolai Gogol. 00:09:49.639 --> 00:09:52.519 And this life -changing trauma is the specific 00:09:52.519 --> 00:09:55.299 reason he names his son Gogol in America. And 00:09:55.299 --> 00:09:57.360 if we look at why that specific narrative choice 00:09:57.360 --> 00:10:00.220 works so well, it's because it perfectly encapsulates 00:10:00.220 --> 00:10:02.379 the mechanics of the immigrant experience. Yeah, 00:10:02.440 --> 00:10:05.799 how random it all is. Exactly. Survival and assimilation 00:10:05.799 --> 00:10:08.659 often come down to completely absurd, random 00:10:08.659 --> 00:10:11.610 collisions of culture. A Bengali man in India 00:10:11.610 --> 00:10:14.549 is saved because a flashlight hits a page written 00:10:14.549 --> 00:10:17.470 by a 19th century Russian author, and that random 00:10:17.470 --> 00:10:19.730 chain of events dictates the identity of a kid 00:10:19.730 --> 00:10:23.629 born decades later in America. Lahiri takes these 00:10:23.629 --> 00:10:26.769 hyper -specific, almost mythic family stories 00:10:26.769 --> 00:10:31.750 and uses them to explain the very universal chaotic 00:10:31.750 --> 00:10:34.740 nature of cultural identity. But that intense 00:10:34.740 --> 00:10:36.940 focus on the parents generation, you know, the 00:10:36.940 --> 00:10:39.299 trauma of the initial arrival, that could only 00:10:39.299 --> 00:10:41.539 sustain her for so long. Right, because things 00:10:41.539 --> 00:10:45.120 change. Yeah. Once those immigrant parents establish 00:10:45.120 --> 00:10:47.899 their roots, the psychological friction naturally 00:10:47.899 --> 00:10:50.559 shifts to their children. And you see Lahiri's 00:10:50.559 --> 00:10:53.519 writing pivot right alongside them. In 2008, 00:10:53.799 --> 00:10:56.220 she drops her short story collection Unaccustomed 00:10:56.220 --> 00:10:59.179 Earth. A huge moment. And it accomplishes something 00:10:59.179 --> 00:11:01.840 practically unheard of in publishing. It debuts 00:11:01.840 --> 00:11:03.980 at number one on the New York Times bestseller 00:11:03.980 --> 00:11:06.919 list. Which, that cannot be overstated. Short 00:11:06.919 --> 00:11:09.019 story collections simply do not debut at number 00:11:09.019 --> 00:11:11.879 one. It is a testament to her absolute commercial 00:11:11.879 --> 00:11:13.940 and cultural command at that specific moment 00:11:13.940 --> 00:11:15.799 in time. Right. She has the culture in the palm 00:11:15.799 --> 00:11:18.620 of her hand. But the thematic focus has completely 00:11:18.620 --> 00:11:20.899 shifted. She's no longer looking primarily at 00:11:20.899 --> 00:11:22.659 the first generation parents desperately trying 00:11:22.659 --> 00:11:25.059 to hold on to the joint family tradition. She 00:11:25.059 --> 00:11:27.279 turns her lens directly onto the second and third 00:11:27.279 --> 00:11:30.039 generations. Yeah, the kids. So what does this 00:11:30.039 --> 00:11:32.580 all mean for you listening? It's like her characters 00:11:32.580 --> 00:11:34.639 have finally been given permission to leave the 00:11:34.639 --> 00:11:37.399 nest. They aren't focused on collective survival 00:11:37.399 --> 00:11:40.759 anymore. for stepping outside the constraints 00:11:40.759 --> 00:11:43.120 and responsibilities of their parents' immigrant 00:11:43.120 --> 00:11:46.259 community to figure out who they are as distinct 00:11:46.259 --> 00:11:49.019 individuals. That is exactly the psychological 00:11:49.019 --> 00:11:51.779 shift taking place. When the first generation 00:11:51.779 --> 00:11:54.379 arrives, the daily goal is collective survival 00:11:54.379 --> 00:11:56.860 and preserving the old ways. Right. Keep everyone 00:11:56.860 --> 00:12:00.259 safe together. Exactly. But as succeeding generations 00:12:00.259 --> 00:12:03.120 assimilate and achieve economic and social stability, 00:12:03.659 --> 00:12:06.740 the existential dread changes. Lahiri's fiction 00:12:06.740 --> 00:12:10.259 adapts to reflect this. The conflict is no longer 00:12:10.259 --> 00:12:12.679 just about clashing with America. It's about 00:12:12.679 --> 00:12:15.679 individual neuroses, marital malaise, and the 00:12:15.679 --> 00:12:17.500 burden of freedom. The burden of freedom, yeah. 00:12:17.620 --> 00:12:19.539 Her characters are navigating a landscape where 00:12:19.539 --> 00:12:22.970 the old maps no longer apply. And this is where 00:12:22.970 --> 00:12:25.690 the story takes a turn that is genuinely mind 00:12:25.690 --> 00:12:28.389 -bending. Because just as her characters are 00:12:28.389 --> 00:12:31.389 embarking on these totally alien stages of development, 00:12:32.110 --> 00:12:33.950 wandering out of the fortress into the unknown, 00:12:34.529 --> 00:12:37.330 Jhumpa Lahiri makes a radical, real -life decision 00:12:37.330 --> 00:12:40.929 to do the exact same thing. Right. In 2012, she 00:12:40.929 --> 00:12:43.490 packs up her husband and two kids, leaves her 00:12:43.490 --> 00:12:46.509 life in Brooklyn, and moves to Rome. A complete 00:12:46.509 --> 00:12:49.049 uprooting of her established reality. And it 00:12:49.049 --> 00:12:52.480 isn't just a change of scenery. dismantles her 00:12:52.480 --> 00:12:55.179 artistic identity. She decides she is going to 00:12:55.179 --> 00:12:57.820 write exclusively in Italian. Just incredible. 00:12:58.019 --> 00:13:00.159 She publishes an essay in the New Yorker called 00:13:00.159 --> 00:13:02.740 Teach Yourself Italian. She releases her first 00:13:02.740 --> 00:13:05.240 book written entirely in Italian called In Altar 00:13:05.240 --> 00:13:08.399 Parole, or In Other Words, then come as a novel 00:13:08.399 --> 00:13:10.620 whereabouts in a collection called Roman Stories. 00:13:11.000 --> 00:13:13.240 She starts translating other Italian authors 00:13:13.240 --> 00:13:15.299 and then she actually begins translating her 00:13:15.299 --> 00:13:17.639 own Italian work back into English. It is an 00:13:17.639 --> 00:13:19.799 incredible artistic reinvention. I gotta say 00:13:19.799 --> 00:13:21.580 though, I stra - I struggle with this Italian 00:13:21.580 --> 00:13:24.000 pivot. From a purely artistic standpoint, it 00:13:24.000 --> 00:13:26.320 almost feels like self -sabotage. You mean? Well, 00:13:26.480 --> 00:13:29.019 why would a writer who has literally won the 00:13:29.019 --> 00:13:31.720 Pulitzer Prize for her mastery of English suddenly 00:13:31.720 --> 00:13:34.399 abandon it? Isn't that like an Olympic swimmer 00:13:34.399 --> 00:13:36.460 deciding they will only compete in gymnastics 00:13:36.460 --> 00:13:39.580 from now on? What is the actual psychological 00:13:39.580 --> 00:13:42.200 payoff that justifies losing her greatest asset? 00:13:42.799 --> 00:13:45.519 Well, it looks like sabotage if you only view 00:13:45.519 --> 00:13:48.759 language as a tool for success. But if we connect 00:13:48.759 --> 00:13:51.000 this to the bigger picture of her entire life, 00:13:51.460 --> 00:13:53.919 it actually makes a profound sort of sense. Okay. 00:13:54.080 --> 00:13:55.620 Think about the friction we've discussed from 00:13:55.620 --> 00:13:58.419 her childhood. Her entire existence was defined 00:13:58.419 --> 00:14:02.190 by a linguistic tug of war. English was the language 00:14:02.190 --> 00:14:04.750 of her massive public success and American assimilation, 00:14:05.350 --> 00:14:07.649 but Bengali was the language of her private guilt 00:14:07.649 --> 00:14:10.269 and familial obligation. Oh, I see. She was always 00:14:10.269 --> 00:14:12.129 carrying the heavy baggage of representation 00:14:12.129 --> 00:14:14.450 in both of those languages. Ah, so there was 00:14:14.450 --> 00:14:16.769 no neutral territory. She was always serving 00:14:16.769 --> 00:14:19.169 a master either the American literary establishment 00:14:19.169 --> 00:14:22.690 or her Bengali heritage. Precisely. Choosing 00:14:22.690 --> 00:14:25.230 a third language Italian was a way for her to 00:14:25.230 --> 00:14:28.529 finally find a neutral ground. A space with zero 00:14:28.529 --> 00:14:31.450 familial baggage and zero societal expectations. 00:14:31.649 --> 00:14:33.909 It makes a lot of sense. It's less like a swimmer 00:14:33.909 --> 00:14:36.789 suddenly changing sports, and more like a master 00:14:36.789 --> 00:14:39.750 architect deciding to build a house using only 00:14:39.750 --> 00:14:41.850 unfamiliar materials they found in the woods. 00:14:42.830 --> 00:14:45.769 By intentionally limiting her vocabulary, she 00:14:45.769 --> 00:14:48.830 forces herself to rely purely on the raw emotional 00:14:48.830 --> 00:14:51.490 architecture of the story, rather than hiding 00:14:51.490 --> 00:14:56.230 behind flowery masterful prose. It is a profound 00:14:56.230 --> 00:14:58.690 exercise in vulnerability. She is intentionally 00:14:58.690 --> 00:15:01.529 stripping away her commercial clout to experience 00:15:01.529 --> 00:15:04.789 the authentic raw struggle of learning anew. 00:15:05.190 --> 00:15:07.250 Italian was a blank canvas where she wasn't causing 00:15:07.250 --> 00:15:10.389 anyone pain or letting anyone down just by speaking. 00:15:10.570 --> 00:15:13.129 Exactly. It's an act of ultimate artistic liberation. 00:15:13.830 --> 00:15:16.129 And the friction of translating her own Italian 00:15:16.129 --> 00:15:18.950 works back into English later on only highlights 00:15:18.950 --> 00:15:21.210 how completely she committed to that new linguistic 00:15:21.210 --> 00:15:23.960 architecture. And that boldness to step into 00:15:23.960 --> 00:15:26.120 completely uncomfortable territory, you know, 00:15:26.220 --> 00:15:28.360 to refuse to just play it safe and write another 00:15:28.360 --> 00:15:30.759 interpreter of maladies, it extends into how 00:15:30.759 --> 00:15:33.360 she interacts with the wider world today. Her 00:15:33.360 --> 00:15:35.220 influence has expanded far beyond the written 00:15:35.220 --> 00:15:37.539 page. Oh, definitely. For example, she worked 00:15:37.539 --> 00:15:39.779 as a consultant on the third season of the HBO 00:15:39.779 --> 00:15:43.039 series. In treatment, specifically advising the 00:15:43.039 --> 00:15:45.379 writers on how a Bengali widower might perceive 00:15:45.379 --> 00:15:47.919 life in Brooklyn. And right now, there's a highly 00:15:47.919 --> 00:15:50.399 anticipated Netflix adaptation of Unaccustomed 00:15:50.399 --> 00:15:53.500 Earth in development for 2025. She is actively 00:15:53.500 --> 00:15:56.139 shaping how these cultural narratives are visualized 00:15:56.139 --> 00:15:59.059 on screen, ensuring the nuances she spent her 00:15:59.059 --> 00:16:01.480 career mapping out are translated accurately 00:16:01.480 --> 00:16:04.460 to a mass audience. She is and. Part of wielding 00:16:04.460 --> 00:16:06.679 that kind of cultural influence today means that 00:16:06.679 --> 00:16:09.240 her actions outside of literature are heavily 00:16:09.240 --> 00:16:11.879 scrutinized. It's fascinating to see how she 00:16:11.879 --> 00:16:14.039 navigates her public platform now, especially 00:16:14.039 --> 00:16:16.960 given how polarized the global climate is. Right. 00:16:17.379 --> 00:16:19.440 And just to be extremely clear with you listening, 00:16:19.440 --> 00:16:21.240 as we look at this next part of her timeline, 00:16:21.600 --> 00:16:23.980 our goal today is strictly to map out the factual 00:16:23.980 --> 00:16:25.860 events from our source material to understand 00:16:25.860 --> 00:16:28.559 her public evolution. We are not weighing in 00:16:28.559 --> 00:16:31.159 or taking any political sides on the issues themselves. 00:16:31.299 --> 00:16:33.700 That's right. We are just looking at the facts 00:16:33.700 --> 00:16:36.279 presented in the article. And when you look strictly 00:16:36.279 --> 00:16:39.320 at the timeline in our sources, you see her making 00:16:39.320 --> 00:16:43.419 definitive public stances that are a stark evolution 00:16:43.419 --> 00:16:45.840 from the quiet, private writer she used to be. 00:16:45.899 --> 00:16:49.419 Yeah, quite a shift. In September 2024, Tahiri 00:16:49.419 --> 00:16:51.679 withdrew her acceptance of the Azamu Noguchi 00:16:51.679 --> 00:16:54.879 Award. This was a direct protest over the Noguchi 00:16:54.879 --> 00:16:57.799 Museum in New York, deciding to fire three employees 00:16:57.799 --> 00:17:00.559 who wore keffiyehs in solidarity with Palestine. 00:17:00.940 --> 00:17:02.940 And following that, a month later in October 00:17:02.940 --> 00:17:05.380 2024, the sources note she signed an open letter 00:17:05.380 --> 00:17:07.579 alongside several thousand other authors pledging 00:17:07.579 --> 00:17:10.539 to boycott Israeli cultural institutions. Exactly. 00:17:10.740 --> 00:17:12.900 So she is actively using the weight of her name, 00:17:12.960 --> 00:17:15.200 the very name she was once so embarrassed by, 00:17:15.660 --> 00:17:18.619 to participate in global discourse. She has absolutely 00:17:18.619 --> 00:17:21.160 moved from the role of a passive observer to 00:17:21.160 --> 00:17:23.710 an active participant. in the wider world. But 00:17:23.710 --> 00:17:26.150 what is truly compelling is that despite this 00:17:26.150 --> 00:17:28.849 global reach and public platform, she still views 00:17:28.849 --> 00:17:30.970 the actual genesis of her writing through an 00:17:30.970 --> 00:17:34.210 incredibly intimate, secluded lens. How so? Well, 00:17:34.210 --> 00:17:36.250 when she talks about the mechanics of her creativity, 00:17:36.730 --> 00:17:38.789 she doesn't just point to literary giants like 00:17:38.789 --> 00:17:41.410 Chekhov or Virginia Woolf. She points to the 00:17:41.410 --> 00:17:44.410 deeply personal act of diary keeping. Oh, right. 00:17:44.710 --> 00:17:46.809 She's kept diaries rigorously since her 20s, 00:17:46.890 --> 00:17:49.690 hasn't she? Yes. She explicitly calls her diaries 00:17:49.690 --> 00:17:53.009 the laboratory for the things she does. And she 00:17:53.009 --> 00:17:56.049 traces this specific devotion directly back to 00:17:56.049 --> 00:17:58.690 reading Anne Frank's The Diary of a Young Girl. 00:17:58.910 --> 00:18:00.990 Wow, Anne Frank. Yeah, that book was foundational 00:18:00.990 --> 00:18:04.549 for her. It taught Lahiri how a writer, even 00:18:04.549 --> 00:18:08.009 one trapped in a confined space can, as she puts 00:18:08.009 --> 00:18:11.869 it, inhabit life and space and listen to people 00:18:11.869 --> 00:18:14.630 and just see things. It is all about the discipline 00:18:14.630 --> 00:18:17.250 of supreme observation. That makes perfect sense 00:18:17.250 --> 00:18:18.829 of everything we've talked about today. From 00:18:18.829 --> 00:18:20.630 the little girl stealing notebooks to secretly 00:18:20.630 --> 00:18:23.609 write about mean girls, to the young woman observing 00:18:23.609 --> 00:18:26.410 the hidden grief of immigrant parents, to the 00:18:26.410 --> 00:18:28.509 established author observing her own mind as 00:18:28.509 --> 00:18:31.500 she struggles to learn Italian. It is all driven 00:18:31.500 --> 00:18:34.359 by that same mechanism of intense, almost clinical 00:18:34.359 --> 00:18:37.460 listening. It is the unifying thread of her entire 00:18:37.460 --> 00:18:40.940 existence. The diary is just the ultimate, unvarnished 00:18:40.940 --> 00:18:44.769 version of that observation. It has been an unbelievable 00:18:44.769 --> 00:18:47.650 evolution to trace today. Just to summarize the 00:18:47.650 --> 00:18:50.089 terrain we've covered for you listening, we started 00:18:50.089 --> 00:18:52.730 with a young girl who felt erased by a generic 00:18:52.730 --> 00:18:56.130 plastic name tag and watched her transform that 00:18:56.130 --> 00:18:59.630 specific childhood alienation into a Pulitzer 00:18:59.630 --> 00:19:02.789 winning career. We saw her document the changing 00:19:02.789 --> 00:19:04.970 psychological landscape of the Indian American 00:19:04.970 --> 00:19:07.970 experience, moving from the parents holding the 00:19:07.970 --> 00:19:10.750 cultural fortress to the children wandering out 00:19:10.750 --> 00:19:13.549 into the unknown. And ultimately we saw her pull 00:19:13.549 --> 00:19:16.210 off an incredible artistic rebirth by moving 00:19:16.210 --> 00:19:19.650 to Rome, abandoning her mastery of English, and 00:19:19.650 --> 00:19:22.410 adopting Italian as her new creative lifeblood. 00:19:22.569 --> 00:19:25.609 And stepping back to look at that entire trajectory 00:19:25.609 --> 00:19:28.309 raises an incredibly profound question, something 00:19:28.309 --> 00:19:29.970 I really want to leave you to mull over today. 00:19:30.210 --> 00:19:31.990 I love a good takeaway. Our sources note that 00:19:31.990 --> 00:19:34.309 Lahiri currently holds both British and American 00:19:34.309 --> 00:19:36.829 citizenship, and she formerly held an Indian 00:19:36.829 --> 00:19:39.950 passport. She has legal and familial ties scattered 00:19:39.950 --> 00:19:42.390 all over the globe. But when you look at the 00:19:42.390 --> 00:19:45.920 actual mechanics of her life... from secretly 00:19:45.920 --> 00:19:48.740 hoarding those notebooks as a child, to using 00:19:48.740 --> 00:19:51.880 her private diaries as a laboratory, to entirely 00:19:51.880 --> 00:19:54.799 adopting Italian as an adult simply to find a 00:19:54.799 --> 00:19:57.880 neutral ground where she could breathe. It changes 00:19:57.880 --> 00:20:00.539 how you define where she actually lives. It really 00:20:00.539 --> 00:20:02.500 does. It makes you wonder, for a writer like 00:20:02.500 --> 00:20:05.579 Yumpa Lahiri, does true citizenship even belong 00:20:05.579 --> 00:20:08.599 to a physical nation at all? Or does she actually 00:20:08.599 --> 00:20:10.619 reside entirely within the borders of language 00:20:10.619 --> 00:20:13.359 itself? Wow. Residing entirely within the borders 00:20:13.359 --> 00:20:15.059 of language itself. That brings it all the way 00:20:15.059 --> 00:20:16.700 back to that five -year -old girl in kindergarten 00:20:16.700 --> 00:20:19.680 holding on to that complex family tapestry, just 00:20:19.680 --> 00:20:21.519 waiting for the day she finally had the tools 00:20:21.519 --> 00:20:23.900 to write her own tags. Thank you for joining 00:20:23.900 --> 00:20:25.740 us on this deep dive. We'll catch you next time.