WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.240 You know, imagine walking into your absolute 00:00:02.240 --> 00:00:05.500 favorite, like, grimy, stick -to -your -shoes 00:00:05.500 --> 00:00:07.820 dive bar. Oh yeah, the one you've been going 00:00:07.820 --> 00:00:10.480 to every weekend for years. Exactly. You go up, 00:00:10.800 --> 00:00:13.439 you order your usual cheap draft beer, but instead 00:00:13.439 --> 00:00:15.779 of sliding a frosty chipped mug down the sticky 00:00:15.779 --> 00:00:18.219 counter, the bartender hands you this perfectly 00:00:18.219 --> 00:00:22.239 balanced, incredibly complex artisanal cocktail. 00:00:22.420 --> 00:00:24.820 In like a crystal glass. Right, in a crystal 00:00:24.820 --> 00:00:27.589 glass. But, and here is the really crucial part 00:00:27.589 --> 00:00:30.829 of this scenario, when you take a sip, it somehow 00:00:30.829 --> 00:00:34.590 still tastes exactly like a sweaty, high -energy 00:00:34.590 --> 00:00:38.240 Friday night at your favorite dive. That is such 00:00:38.240 --> 00:00:40.840 a visceral image. I love that. It's a complete 00:00:40.840 --> 00:00:42.859 subversion of your expectations, but it still 00:00:42.859 --> 00:00:46.079 manages to, you know, deliver the exact emotional 00:00:46.079 --> 00:00:48.679 payload you walked in looking for. And that feeling 00:00:48.679 --> 00:00:51.899 of unexpected but perfectly executed evolution. 00:00:52.600 --> 00:00:54.520 Well, that's the central mission of today's Deem 00:00:54.520 --> 00:00:57.399 Dive. We are exploring a master class in how 00:00:57.399 --> 00:00:59.520 artists can completely break out of their own 00:00:59.520 --> 00:01:02.240 established molds. alienating the people who 00:01:02.240 --> 00:01:04.140 love them in the first place, which is so incredibly 00:01:04.140 --> 00:01:07.060 hard to do. It really is. So we've got a stack 00:01:07.060 --> 00:01:09.900 of archival reviews, liner notes and deep dive 00:01:09.900 --> 00:01:13.180 encyclopedias from the era, all focused on the 00:01:13.180 --> 00:01:16.640 2000 self -titled studio album by the American 00:01:16.640 --> 00:01:19.269 punk rock band Swing and Utters. And you know, 00:01:19.510 --> 00:01:21.310 even if you wouldn't normally consider yourself 00:01:21.310 --> 00:01:24.170 a punk rock aficionado, the creative mechanics 00:01:24.170 --> 00:01:27.290 at play on this record are just universally fascinating. 00:01:27.390 --> 00:01:30.069 Totally. It is this brilliant, hyper -focused 00:01:30.069 --> 00:01:33.310 case study in managing audience expectations 00:01:33.310 --> 00:01:36.049 while aggressively pushing your own boundaries. 00:01:36.409 --> 00:01:38.450 Setting the stage here, this album dropped on 00:01:38.450 --> 00:01:41.400 October 10th, 2000. It was released on Fat Rack 00:01:41.400 --> 00:01:44.000 Chords, and it was produced by the band alongside 00:01:44.000 --> 00:01:47.560 Ryan Green. Which is a huge detail. Right, because 00:01:47.560 --> 00:01:49.280 for anyone familiar with the musical landscape 00:01:49.280 --> 00:01:51.799 back in 2000, the Fat Rack Chords label came 00:01:51.799 --> 00:01:54.319 with a very specific iron -clad expectation. 00:01:54.579 --> 00:01:57.219 Yeah, this was the home of fast -paced, highly 00:01:57.219 --> 00:02:00.379 melodic skate bunk. Exactly. So you've got this 00:02:00.379 --> 00:02:02.780 established, hard -touring band, a legendary 00:02:02.780 --> 00:02:05.359 punk label, and you buy the CD, you pop it into 00:02:05.359 --> 00:02:07.420 your stereo, fully bracing yourself for that 00:02:07.420 --> 00:02:09.569 standard aggressive punk sound. And the band 00:02:09.569 --> 00:02:11.110 decides to give you something entirely different. 00:02:11.469 --> 00:02:13.949 Well, eventually they do. Right. Eventually being 00:02:13.949 --> 00:02:15.710 the operative word there. Yeah. Because they 00:02:15.710 --> 00:02:18.969 don't actually start the album with the new experimental 00:02:18.969 --> 00:02:21.210 sound they spent months developing. No, they 00:02:21.210 --> 00:02:23.270 don't. OK, let's unpack this because this is 00:02:23.270 --> 00:02:26.270 where the strategy gets brilliant. If you're 00:02:26.270 --> 00:02:29.610 an artist trying to pivot to a new sound, the 00:02:29.610 --> 00:02:32.050 first thing you present to the world is crucial. 00:02:32.830 --> 00:02:34.979 So what do the swing and utters do? They hit 00:02:34.979 --> 00:02:37.939 you with track one. Track one, pills and smoke. 00:02:38.800 --> 00:02:40.719 It clocks in at a blistering two minutes and 00:02:40.719 --> 00:02:43.680 34 seconds. Now the archival reviews note that 00:02:43.680 --> 00:02:46.219 this album as a whole was deliberately moving 00:02:46.219 --> 00:02:51.159 toward a... a folkier sound. Right. But according 00:02:51.159 --> 00:02:53.479 to a contemporary review in the Pembroke Observer, 00:02:54.039 --> 00:02:57.620 this opening track is immediately so retro sounding 00:02:57.620 --> 00:02:59.939 that it could reel anyone back into the days 00:02:59.939 --> 00:03:02.520 of crash and burn English punk rock. It is just 00:03:02.520 --> 00:03:04.780 a relentless traditional punk track right out 00:03:04.780 --> 00:03:06.780 of the gate. It really is like an espresso shot 00:03:06.780 --> 00:03:10.000 to the nervous system. Short, jolting, and exactly 00:03:10.000 --> 00:03:12.099 what a longtime punk fan is craving. Yeah, it 00:03:12.099 --> 00:03:14.680 wakes you up. But I have to challenge this strategy 00:03:14.680 --> 00:03:17.599 for a second. Looking at this from a structural 00:03:17.599 --> 00:03:20.810 standpoint, If your entire artistic goal for 00:03:20.810 --> 00:03:24.990 this record is to pivot to a folkier, more complex 00:03:24.990 --> 00:03:28.669 sound, why on earth do you start with such an 00:03:28.669 --> 00:03:30.949 aggressive, traditional crash and burn track? 00:03:31.110 --> 00:03:33.629 I mean, it seems counterintuitive. Doesn't it 00:03:33.629 --> 00:03:35.849 just send incredibly mixed signals to the listener? 00:03:36.009 --> 00:03:37.849 It feels like a massive bait and sway. I see 00:03:37.849 --> 00:03:39.610 why you'd call it a bait and switch, for sure. 00:03:39.900 --> 00:03:42.099 But if we look at the psychology of music consumption, 00:03:42.439 --> 00:03:44.620 it operates more like a handshake. A handshake. 00:03:44.780 --> 00:03:46.360 Yeah, think about the relationship between a 00:03:46.360 --> 00:03:48.800 punk band and their audience in the year 2000. 00:03:48.860 --> 00:03:51.580 When an artist decides to dramatically pivot 00:03:51.580 --> 00:03:53.680 their style, especially in a subculture like 00:03:53.680 --> 00:03:55.979 punk rock, which has, you know, fiercely loyal 00:03:55.979 --> 00:03:59.120 and sometimes notoriously purist bands, you run 00:03:59.120 --> 00:04:01.759 a massive risk of immediate alienation. Oh, yeah. 00:04:02.060 --> 00:04:05.180 The accusation of selling out or abandoning your 00:04:05.180 --> 00:04:08.360 roots was like. a career death sentence back 00:04:08.360 --> 00:04:10.979 then. Exactly. So if the Swingin' Utters had 00:04:10.979 --> 00:04:13.580 opened this highly anticipated album with a slow 00:04:13.580 --> 00:04:16.740 acoustic folk ballad, a significant portion of 00:04:16.740 --> 00:04:19.300 their audience might have ejected the CD immediately. 00:04:19.620 --> 00:04:21.220 They would have assumed they accidentally bought 00:04:21.220 --> 00:04:24.259 the wrong record. Or worse, that the band had 00:04:24.259 --> 00:04:26.540 just turned their backs on the scene entirely. 00:04:26.800 --> 00:04:29.079 Ah, so they needed to prove they still had their 00:04:29.079 --> 00:04:32.160 edge. Right. Opening with Pills and Smoke is 00:04:32.160 --> 00:04:35.779 a tactical, deeply empathetic move by the band. 00:04:36.220 --> 00:04:38.180 It's their way of looking the listener in the 00:04:38.180 --> 00:04:41.300 eye and saying, hey, we are still us. We still 00:04:41.300 --> 00:04:43.699 have that fire. We still know how to play fast 00:04:43.699 --> 00:04:45.939 and loud. It reassures the existing fan base. 00:04:46.220 --> 00:04:49.300 It secures their trust. And once you've established 00:04:49.300 --> 00:04:51.480 that trust in those first two and a half minutes, 00:04:52.300 --> 00:04:55.060 the listener's defenses drop. They are suddenly 00:04:55.060 --> 00:04:57.379 much more willing to hold your hand and follow 00:04:57.379 --> 00:05:00.100 you into the strange uncharted territory that 00:05:00.100 --> 00:05:02.620 comes next. You give them the espresso shot so 00:05:02.620 --> 00:05:04.519 their eyes are wide open for the rest of the 00:05:04.519 --> 00:05:06.620 menu. Beautifully put. And the rest of that menu 00:05:06.620 --> 00:05:09.500 is incredibly dense, especially when you consider 00:05:09.500 --> 00:05:11.939 the physical constraints of this album. The whole 00:05:11.939 --> 00:05:15.730 thing. All 15 distinct tracks is crammed into 00:05:15.730 --> 00:05:19.290 a total runtime of just 36 minutes and 38 seconds. 00:05:19.529 --> 00:05:21.470 Which is an exceptionally tight window. I mean, 00:05:21.550 --> 00:05:23.290 if you do the math on that, they are giving themselves 00:05:23.290 --> 00:05:25.930 almost no room to breathe between ideas. So once 00:05:25.930 --> 00:05:29.250 that aggressive punk handshake is over, how quickly 00:05:29.250 --> 00:05:31.689 do they start cashing in that trust to experiment? 00:05:31.990 --> 00:05:33.810 Almost immediately. Yeah, the pivot hits hard. 00:05:34.110 --> 00:05:35.730 By the time we get to the third song watching 00:05:35.730 --> 00:05:38.670 the Wayfarers, the rug is completely pulled out 00:05:38.670 --> 00:05:41.139 from under you. The Pembroke Observer describes 00:05:41.139 --> 00:05:46.240 this specific track not as punk, but as a superb 00:05:46.240 --> 00:05:50.459 rockabilly country blues number. Such a shift. 00:05:51.040 --> 00:05:53.360 And furthermore, the San Antonio Express News 00:05:53.360 --> 00:05:56.339 notes that throughout the entire album, the band 00:05:56.339 --> 00:05:59.620 tosses in prominent elements of cow punk, folk 00:05:59.620 --> 00:06:02.689 rock, and melody. Cow punk is such a wonderfully 00:06:02.689 --> 00:06:05.350 evocative term from that era. It's fantastic. 00:06:05.670 --> 00:06:07.250 But so what does this all mean for the actual 00:06:07.250 --> 00:06:09.189 music? Because I have a major logistical question 00:06:09.189 --> 00:06:11.029 about the mechanics of this. OK, lay it on me. 00:06:11.350 --> 00:06:13.610 Watching the Wayfarers is literally one minute 00:06:13.610 --> 00:06:16.370 and 55 seconds long. Right. We also see subsequent 00:06:16.370 --> 00:06:18.829 tracks like Second Skin clocking in at one minute 00:06:18.829 --> 00:06:21.730 and 59 seconds and Another Day at one minute 00:06:21.730 --> 00:06:24.209 and 58 seconds. Super short. If you were trying 00:06:24.209 --> 00:06:27.420 to establish a rich... historically complex vibe 00:06:27.420 --> 00:06:30.779 like rockabilly, country blues or folk rock. 00:06:31.699 --> 00:06:33.959 How do you possibly do that in under two minutes? 00:06:34.860 --> 00:06:36.639 Traditional country and blues take their time. 00:06:36.819 --> 00:06:39.259 They simmer. They really do. Are they basically 00:06:39.259 --> 00:06:42.060 treating a country song like a punk song by just 00:06:42.060 --> 00:06:44.399 fast forwarding the tape or they like surgically 00:06:44.399 --> 00:06:47.449 removing the meandering parts? It's definitely 00:06:47.449 --> 00:06:50.009 the latter, and it's a fascinating look at musical 00:06:50.009 --> 00:06:52.149 architecture. It's not about playing faster. 00:06:52.149 --> 00:06:55.370 It's about ruthless distillation. Distillation. 00:06:55.829 --> 00:06:58.089 Yeah. Think about a traditional country blues 00:06:58.089 --> 00:07:01.269 or folk song. A lot of the runtime in those traditional 00:07:01.269 --> 00:07:04.790 genres is taken up by slow world building. Like 00:07:04.790 --> 00:07:07.910 what? You know, meandering narrative versus extended 00:07:07.910 --> 00:07:10.970 instrumental solos and a very relaxed, spacious 00:07:10.970 --> 00:07:13.689 tempo that lets the chords ring out. What the 00:07:13.689 --> 00:07:15.509 swing and utters are doing with a sub two minute 00:07:15.509 --> 00:07:17.959 track. like watching the Wayfarers requires an 00:07:17.959 --> 00:07:19.600 incredible amount of musical discipline. They 00:07:19.600 --> 00:07:22.259 are essentially trimming all the fat. Exactly. 00:07:22.540 --> 00:07:25.620 They are extracting the absolute core essence 00:07:25.620 --> 00:07:28.560 of the genre. They take the specific melodic 00:07:28.560 --> 00:07:31.779 hooks, the distinct rhythmic bounce of rockabilly, 00:07:32.259 --> 00:07:35.000 or the harmonic structure of a country blues 00:07:35.000 --> 00:07:37.959 progression, and they strip away every single 00:07:37.959 --> 00:07:41.779 second of excess. They condense a sweeping six 00:07:41.779 --> 00:07:44.939 -minute musical tradition into a dense... tightly 00:07:44.939 --> 00:07:48.339 coiled punk rock structure. It's incredibly difficult 00:07:48.339 --> 00:07:51.279 to execute because you have no time to slowly 00:07:51.279 --> 00:07:52.959 build a move. Right, you just have to drop them 00:07:52.959 --> 00:07:55.620 in. You have to establish the entire sonic landscape, 00:07:55.839 --> 00:07:58.160 the groove, and the attitude within the first 00:07:58.160 --> 00:08:00.019 three seconds of the track. Okay, that actually 00:08:00.019 --> 00:08:02.300 completely changes how I view a two minute song. 00:08:02.660 --> 00:08:04.360 It's not that they don't have enough material 00:08:04.360 --> 00:08:06.860 to write a longer song. It's that they've compressed 00:08:06.860 --> 00:08:08.980 a massive amount of material until it's diamond 00:08:08.980 --> 00:08:11.980 hard. Yes. The brevity isn't a lack of ideas. 00:08:12.100 --> 00:08:14.589 It's a hyper concentration of them. And that 00:08:14.589 --> 00:08:16.870 compression changes the way the listener processes 00:08:16.870 --> 00:08:19.529 the genre. You get the flavor of country without 00:08:19.529 --> 00:08:21.470 the fatigue. And speaking of that flavor, here's 00:08:21.470 --> 00:08:23.990 where it gets really interesting. To actually 00:08:23.990 --> 00:08:27.750 physically create these authentic country folk 00:08:27.750 --> 00:08:30.709 and rockabilly sounds, they didn't just play 00:08:30.709 --> 00:08:32.809 standard electric guitars and drums with a twang. 00:08:32.909 --> 00:08:35.230 No, they went all in. They brought in an absolute 00:08:35.230 --> 00:08:37.990 arsenal of highly unusual instruments for a punk 00:08:37.990 --> 00:08:41.740 band. The San Antonio Express News explicitly 00:08:41.740 --> 00:08:44.840 points out how the band stretches their boundaries 00:08:44.840 --> 00:08:47.779 by incorporating the upright bass, the violin, 00:08:47.899 --> 00:08:50.000 the piano, the cello, and the mandolin. That 00:08:50.000 --> 00:08:52.620 is a staggering list of instrumentation for an 00:08:52.620 --> 00:08:55.200 album released on a skate punk label in 2000. 00:08:55.399 --> 00:08:58.120 And so much of this massive sonic shift is being 00:08:58.120 --> 00:09:01.539 driven by one guy, Darius Korski. Yeah, his workload 00:09:01.539 --> 00:09:04.299 was insane. According to the album's liner notes, 00:09:04.539 --> 00:09:06.279 Korski isn't just playing guitar and singing. 00:09:06.679 --> 00:09:09.019 He is credited with playing the accordion, the 00:09:09.019 --> 00:09:11.899 organ, the viola, and the violin. He is acting 00:09:11.899 --> 00:09:14.779 like a one -man folk orchestra hiding inside 00:09:14.779 --> 00:09:17.169 a punk rock band. That is the perfect analogy. 00:09:17.529 --> 00:09:19.389 And building that orchestra wasn't an isolated 00:09:19.389 --> 00:09:22.029 effort. The band really opened their studio doors 00:09:22.029 --> 00:09:24.649 to outside guest musicians to physically achieve 00:09:24.649 --> 00:09:27.049 this vision. They brought in an entire roster. 00:09:27.190 --> 00:09:29.769 You have Max Butler, who plays pedal steel guitar 00:09:29.769 --> 00:09:31.830 and mandolin. You have Pat Johnson on piano. 00:09:32.070 --> 00:09:33.909 Mikey Porter playing the cello. Right. And a 00:09:33.909 --> 00:09:36.289 guy named Rock and Lloyd Tripp laying down the 00:09:36.289 --> 00:09:39.169 authentic upright bass specifically on watching 00:09:39.169 --> 00:09:42.210 the Wayfarers. Even Ryan Green, who co -produced 00:09:42.210 --> 00:09:44.289 the album, jumps out of the control room to play 00:09:44.289 --> 00:09:46.409 percussion. But, you know, bringing all these 00:09:46.409 --> 00:09:48.690 instruments into the same room raises a really 00:09:48.690 --> 00:09:50.870 important question about the physical mechanisms 00:09:50.870 --> 00:09:53.190 of the music. What do you mean by that? Think 00:09:53.190 --> 00:09:55.250 about the emotional baggage and the physical 00:09:55.250 --> 00:09:58.070 reality of how these specific instruments are 00:09:58.070 --> 00:10:00.629 traditionally played. When you picture a cello 00:10:00.629 --> 00:10:04.350 or a tetl steel guitar, what kind of sonic environment 00:10:04.350 --> 00:10:07.169 usually comes to mind? Usually. Something sweeping. 00:10:08.210 --> 00:10:12.450 Cinematic, slow, melancholic, very emotionally 00:10:12.450 --> 00:10:14.870 heavy. You picture someone in a concert hall 00:10:14.870 --> 00:10:17.950 playing long, sustained notes. Right. They're 00:10:17.950 --> 00:10:20.470 traditionally instruments of longing and wide 00:10:20.470 --> 00:10:22.970 open spaces. Now, imagine taking the inherent 00:10:22.970 --> 00:10:25.409 melancholy and the sweeping, slow nature of a 00:10:25.409 --> 00:10:29.210 cello and forcing it into a fast -paced, aggressive, 00:10:29.450 --> 00:10:32.429 two -minute punk track hitting 180 beats per 00:10:32.429 --> 00:10:34.710 minute. That sounds like a disaster. It would 00:10:34.710 --> 00:10:37.370 be, unless the musicians entirely rethink the 00:10:37.370 --> 00:10:39.309 physical mechanics of the instrument. How do 00:10:39.309 --> 00:10:42.700 you rethink a cello? Normally, a cello uses long, 00:10:42.899 --> 00:10:46.360 drawn -out legato bowing to create those weeping, 00:10:46.659 --> 00:10:49.899 sustained sounds, but you can't do that over 00:10:49.899 --> 00:10:52.200 a frantic punk drum beat. The sound would just 00:10:52.200 --> 00:10:54.860 turn to mud. It would just get lost in the mix. 00:10:55.340 --> 00:10:58.139 Exactly. So the cellist has to switch their technique 00:10:58.139 --> 00:11:01.480 entirely, often utilizing staccato bowing, which 00:11:01.480 --> 00:11:04.360 are short, sharp, highly aggressive strokes. 00:11:04.940 --> 00:11:07.820 They essentially turn a melodic string instrument 00:11:07.820 --> 00:11:10.840 into a percussive one. Oh, wow. They are physically 00:11:10.840 --> 00:11:12.759 chopping at the strings with the bow to match 00:11:12.759 --> 00:11:15.460 the snare drum. I see. They are physically weaponizing 00:11:15.460 --> 00:11:18.159 the classical instruments to survive in a punk 00:11:18.159 --> 00:11:20.840 environment. That is exactly the friction that 00:11:20.840 --> 00:11:23.539 makes this album work. That forcing of contradictory 00:11:23.539 --> 00:11:26.539 elements to share the exact same small two -minute 00:11:26.539 --> 00:11:29.179 space is where true musical innovation happens. 00:11:29.320 --> 00:11:31.679 They aren't just layering a pretty cello over 00:11:31.679 --> 00:11:34.950 a loud punk song. They are redefining how the 00:11:34.950 --> 00:11:37.049 cello functions within the rhythm section of 00:11:37.049 --> 00:11:39.490 a rock band. Spot on. It's like they took that 00:11:39.490 --> 00:11:41.649 dive bar we talked about at the beginning and 00:11:41.649 --> 00:11:43.549 suddenly they've crammed a classically trained 00:11:43.549 --> 00:11:45.990 string quartet into the corner booth next to 00:11:45.990 --> 00:11:48.389 the jukebox and told them to keep up with the 00:11:48.389 --> 00:11:50.750 punk rock playing on the speakers. And against 00:11:50.750 --> 00:11:53.649 all odds the combination is seamless. But bringing 00:11:53.649 --> 00:11:55.529 in all these different instruments and all these 00:11:55.529 --> 00:11:58.190 guest musicians leads us into another really 00:11:58.190 --> 00:12:01.250 fascinating layer of the album's architecture. 00:12:01.490 --> 00:12:05.080 The voices. Yes. We have to talk about the sheer 00:12:05.080 --> 00:12:08.440 variety of literal voices we hear, because the 00:12:08.440 --> 00:12:10.440 instruments aren't the only things rotating in 00:12:10.440 --> 00:12:12.740 and out of the spotlight on this record. The 00:12:12.740 --> 00:12:15.299 vocal duties and the songwriting credits are 00:12:15.299 --> 00:12:17.799 incredibly shared. It operates much more like 00:12:17.799 --> 00:12:20.460 a collective than a traditional band. Let's look 00:12:20.460 --> 00:12:23.539 at the breakdown from the credits. Darius Koski 00:12:23.539 --> 00:12:26.139 is recognized as the primary songwriter for the 00:12:26.139 --> 00:12:29.480 album, but Max Huber steps up to the plate and 00:12:29.480 --> 00:12:32.700 writes three distinct tracks. The note... will 00:12:32.700 --> 00:12:36.320 success spoil Rock Hunter and The Green Glass. 00:12:36.659 --> 00:12:38.740 And there's also an outside writer credited simply 00:12:38.740 --> 00:12:41.240 as O 'Brien who penned the track Eddie's Teddy. 00:12:41.620 --> 00:12:44.039 And that shared creative responsibility extends 00:12:44.039 --> 00:12:47.679 directly to the microphone. Johnny Bonnell is 00:12:47.679 --> 00:12:50.399 historically recognized as the main lead vocalist 00:12:50.399 --> 00:12:53.879 for the band, but he steps aside multiple times 00:12:53.879 --> 00:12:56.720 on this record. He really does. Max Huber sings 00:12:56.720 --> 00:12:59.240 lead vocals on the note, which is a two minute 00:12:59.240 --> 00:13:02.549 and 51 second track. Darius Koshotsky takes the 00:13:02.549 --> 00:13:05.350 lead on watching the Wayfarers, and he also sings 00:13:05.350 --> 00:13:07.590 lead on the longest track of the entire album, 00:13:07.870 --> 00:13:10.190 My Glass House, which stretches all the way out 00:13:10.190 --> 00:13:12.570 to three minutes and 28 seconds. Which, when 00:13:12.570 --> 00:13:15.409 you consider the overall 36 -minute runtime, 00:13:15.710 --> 00:13:19.269 makes My Glass House basically a sprawling cinematic 00:13:19.269 --> 00:13:21.450 epic. It practically takes up a whole side of 00:13:21.450 --> 00:13:23.730 a cassette tape by their standards, and the rotation 00:13:23.730 --> 00:13:26.389 goes even further. Spike Slauson, the bass player, 00:13:26.549 --> 00:13:28.370 steps up to the mic to sing lead on the green 00:13:28.370 --> 00:13:30.629 glass. And doesn't he also switch instruments? 00:13:30.769 --> 00:13:33.490 He does. Slauson steps entirely out of his role 00:13:33.490 --> 00:13:36.049 as the bassist to play guitar on two tracks, 00:13:36.450 --> 00:13:38.710 Scum Grief, which is two minutes and 19 seconds, 00:13:39.029 --> 00:13:42.029 and Teen Idle Eyes at two minutes and 25 seconds. 00:13:42.149 --> 00:13:45.029 It is a remarkable game of musical chairs within 00:13:45.029 --> 00:13:47.549 the studio. But I have to play Devil's Advocate 00:13:47.549 --> 00:13:49.509 here for a second and push back on this structure. 00:13:49.529 --> 00:13:51.889 Go for it. With so many cooks in the kitchen, 00:13:52.909 --> 00:13:55.100 you know... You have four different lead singers 00:13:55.100 --> 00:13:58.639 taking turns across these 15 tracks, guys swapping 00:13:58.639 --> 00:14:01.200 their primary instruments, guest cello players, 00:14:01.539 --> 00:14:04.220 outside writers dropping in. Doesn't an album 00:14:04.220 --> 00:14:07.100 risk entirely losing its identity? It's a fine 00:14:07.100 --> 00:14:10.299 line. Does it stop feeling like a cohesive singular 00:14:10.299 --> 00:14:13.220 statement from a rock band and start feeling 00:14:13.220 --> 00:14:16.399 more like a compilation album or a chaotic mixtape 00:14:16.399 --> 00:14:18.059 put together by a bunch of different artists? 00:14:18.259 --> 00:14:21.279 That is a very valid concern. In fact, with a 00:14:21.279 --> 00:14:23.919 lesser band or a less defined overarching vision, 00:14:24.240 --> 00:14:25.879 a compilation album is exactly what this would 00:14:25.879 --> 00:14:27.820 sound like. It would be a mess. Right. But in 00:14:27.820 --> 00:14:29.559 the case of this Swing and Utters record, the 00:14:29.559 --> 00:14:31.860 sheer chaos of the structure is actually the 00:14:31.860 --> 00:14:34.080 glue holding it together. I'm not sure I follow. 00:14:34.539 --> 00:14:37.419 How does chaos act as glue? If we connect this 00:14:37.419 --> 00:14:39.700 back to the one man folk orchestra concept we 00:14:39.700 --> 00:14:42.159 just discussed, the instrumentation on this album 00:14:42.159 --> 00:14:45.299 is already deeply unconventional. You have accordions 00:14:45.299 --> 00:14:48.139 bouncing against distorted power chords, cellos 00:14:48.139 --> 00:14:50.440 trying to keep up with crash and burn punk drums, 00:14:50.740 --> 00:14:53.159 pedal steel guitars sliding through two minute 00:14:53.159 --> 00:14:56.480 micro songs. Exactly. The sonic landscape is 00:14:56.480 --> 00:14:59.360 inherently unpredictable because the music itself 00:14:59.360 --> 00:15:01.620 is pulling from so many different geographical 00:15:01.620 --> 00:15:05.620 and historical directions. Having a single solitary 00:15:05.620 --> 00:15:07.720 voice trying to narrate the whole thing might 00:15:07.720 --> 00:15:11.340 actually feel inauthentic. Oh. Like one single 00:15:11.340 --> 00:15:14.820 tour guide trying to expertly explain five different 00:15:14.820 --> 00:15:17.139 countries on the same bus tour wouldn't work. 00:15:17.580 --> 00:15:19.820 But if you have a rotating panel of locals stepping 00:15:19.820 --> 00:15:21.600 up to the microphone. That's a great way to look 00:15:21.600 --> 00:15:24.600 at it. By utilizing multiple vocalists, the band 00:15:24.600 --> 00:15:27.159 actually anchors the chaotic energy of the music. 00:15:27.360 --> 00:15:29.519 It makes the album feel less like an egotistical 00:15:29.519 --> 00:15:32.279 solo project hiding behind a band name and more 00:15:32.279 --> 00:15:35.080 like a living, breathing community of musicians. 00:15:35.139 --> 00:15:37.320 I love that. Furthermore, this collective approach 00:15:37.320 --> 00:15:40.240 reflects a deeply democratic ethos. that is central 00:15:40.240 --> 00:15:43.279 to the genre. A very traditional punk rock ethos. 00:15:43.600 --> 00:15:47.440 The most punk rock ethos imaginable. In standard 00:15:47.440 --> 00:15:50.059 corporate rock and roll, there is almost always 00:15:50.059 --> 00:15:53.460 a rigid, unbreakable hierarchy. The lead singer 00:15:53.460 --> 00:15:55.879 is the star, the lead guitarist is the moody 00:15:55.879 --> 00:15:58.879 co -star, and everyone else is just the replaceable 00:15:58.879 --> 00:16:00.840 backing band standing in the shadows. Right, 00:16:00.940 --> 00:16:03.399 the hired guns. But here, the bassist writes 00:16:03.399 --> 00:16:06.240 songs and plays guitar. The producer steps out 00:16:06.240 --> 00:16:08.440 of the booth to grab some percussion. The main 00:16:08.440 --> 00:16:11.799 songwriter sings lead on a few tracks, but happily 00:16:11.799 --> 00:16:14.080 steps back into the shadows to let the guitarist 00:16:14.080 --> 00:16:16.399 or the bassist take the mic. It's an ensemble 00:16:16.399 --> 00:16:18.879 cast where everyone is willing to experience 00:16:18.879 --> 00:16:21.399 a little bit of ego death. They step entirely 00:16:21.399 --> 00:16:24.259 out of their defined lanes for one singular purpose, 00:16:24.779 --> 00:16:27.139 to simply serve the song. Whatever the song needs 00:16:27.139 --> 00:16:29.600 in that exact two -minute window, whoever in 00:16:29.600 --> 00:16:32.120 the room can provide it. steps up. And that is 00:16:32.120 --> 00:16:34.080 what prevents the album from feeling disjointed. 00:16:34.360 --> 00:16:36.700 The unifying factor isn't a single recognizable 00:16:36.700 --> 00:16:39.960 voice. The unifying factor is the band's collective 00:16:39.960 --> 00:16:42.500 willingness to experiment and support each other's 00:16:42.500 --> 00:16:45.360 weirdest ideas. That is such a brilliant way 00:16:45.360 --> 00:16:47.120 to frame the architecture of what they built 00:16:47.120 --> 00:16:50.820 here in the studio. We've gone on quite a journey 00:16:50.820 --> 00:16:52.899 with this source material today. I really have. 00:16:53.080 --> 00:16:55.480 We started with this sheer adrenaline of pills 00:16:55.480 --> 00:16:57.639 and smoke, looking at how they gave the fans 00:16:57.639 --> 00:17:01.320 that retro crash and burn English punk rock handshake 00:17:01.320 --> 00:17:04.339 to build trust before making any sudden moves. 00:17:04.599 --> 00:17:07.299 The vital empathetic first step before the leap. 00:17:07.660 --> 00:17:10.160 Right. And then we watched them take that massive 00:17:10.160 --> 00:17:12.420 leap into the acoustic tightly coiled depths 00:17:12.420 --> 00:17:16.230 of cow punk and folk rock. We saw how condensing, 00:17:16.289 --> 00:17:19.589 sweeping genres like country blues into 1 minute 00:17:19.589 --> 00:17:22.609 and 55 second micro symphonies required stripping 00:17:22.609 --> 00:17:25.509 away all the excess fat. Finding the hard, melodic 00:17:25.509 --> 00:17:28.190 heart of the music. Exactly. We broke down the 00:17:28.190 --> 00:17:30.630 physical mechanics of that transition. We saw 00:17:30.630 --> 00:17:33.589 how they utilized an incredible, unlikely arsenal 00:17:33.589 --> 00:17:35.670 of instruments, the cellos, the mandolins, the 00:17:35.670 --> 00:17:38.890 accordions, and physically weaponized those slow, 00:17:39.049 --> 00:17:41.250 melancholic tools to keep up with an aggressive 00:17:41.250 --> 00:17:43.900 punk rock tempo. All while passing the microphone 00:17:43.900 --> 00:17:47.099 around a truly democratic, multi -vocalist collective? 00:17:47.559 --> 00:17:49.640 Looking at the timeline of their career, this 00:17:49.640 --> 00:17:53.019 self -titled 2000 album sits perfectly as a bridge 00:17:53.019 --> 00:17:55.900 in their discography. It comes right after their 00:17:55.900 --> 00:17:58.660 1999 split album with Youth Brigade. Which is 00:17:58.660 --> 00:18:00.420 a great release, by the way. Oh, absolutely. 00:18:00.960 --> 00:18:03.660 And for anyone not steeped in punk history, a 00:18:03.660 --> 00:18:06.319 split is this great tradition where two different 00:18:06.319 --> 00:18:09.680 bands literally share a single physical record. 00:18:09.819 --> 00:18:12.279 taking up one side each. And you can see how 00:18:12.279 --> 00:18:15.319 this 2000 album clearly lays the creative groundwork 00:18:15.319 --> 00:18:17.740 for where the Swingin' Utters would go next with 00:18:17.740 --> 00:18:20.759 their highly acclaimed 2003 release, Dead Flowers, 00:18:20.980 --> 00:18:23.660 Bottles, Bluegrass, and Bones. It is the definitive 00:18:23.660 --> 00:18:26.440 sound of a band in absolute fearless transition. 00:18:26.779 --> 00:18:29.579 It really is. And I think... Whether you are 00:18:29.579 --> 00:18:31.440 listening to this deep dive right now to prep 00:18:31.440 --> 00:18:33.339 for a creative meeting in your own industry, 00:18:33.839 --> 00:18:35.799 or if you're just naturally curious about how 00:18:35.799 --> 00:18:38.900 art evolves, there is a massive, incredibly valuable 00:18:38.900 --> 00:18:41.460 lesson here. Oh, absolutely. The swing and utters 00:18:41.460 --> 00:18:43.759 prove that you do not have to let your past successes 00:18:43.759 --> 00:18:45.940 or the rigid expectations of your most loyal 00:18:45.940 --> 00:18:48.859 audience dictate your future experiments. You 00:18:48.859 --> 00:18:52.000 can honor exactly where you came from while aggressively 00:18:52.000 --> 00:18:54.490 exploring where you want to go. That's a powerful 00:18:54.490 --> 00:18:56.670 takeaway. But, you know, looking at the mechanics 00:18:56.670 --> 00:18:59.670 of this album makes me wonder about the landscape 00:18:59.670 --> 00:19:01.730 of music today. What do you mean? Think about 00:19:01.730 --> 00:19:04.390 the modern streaming environment. Back in 2000, 00:19:04.730 --> 00:19:06.990 you bought the physical CD, you put it in your 00:19:06.990 --> 00:19:09.230 car, and you were a captive audience for those 00:19:09.230 --> 00:19:12.430 36 minutes. The band controlled the journey from 00:19:12.430 --> 00:19:14.950 the aggressive punk handshake all the way to 00:19:14.950 --> 00:19:16.670 the cow punk experiment. Right, you had to let 00:19:16.670 --> 00:19:19.970 it play. But today, the Spotify algorithm demands 00:19:19.970 --> 00:19:22.970 absolute consistency. It punishes genre hopping. 00:19:23.730 --> 00:19:26.430 If you put a blistering punk track next to a 00:19:26.430 --> 00:19:29.009 two -minute acoustic cello -driven folk song 00:19:29.009 --> 00:19:31.829 on a playlist today, the algorithm gets confused 00:19:31.829 --> 00:19:34.809 and buries the artist. Wow, that's entirely true. 00:19:34.990 --> 00:19:38.119 So the question is... In our current era of hyper 00:19:38.119 --> 00:19:41.660 curated mood based playlists, is this specific 00:19:41.660 --> 00:19:45.000 type of fearless album length musical experimentation 00:19:45.000 --> 00:19:48.359 even commercially survivable anymore? Or has 00:19:48.359 --> 00:19:50.759 the technology quietly killed the artists ability 00:19:50.759 --> 00:19:52.880 to pull off a brilliant bait and switch on their 00:19:52.880 --> 00:19:56.519 own audience? Wow, that is exactly the kind of 00:19:56.519 --> 00:19:58.680 slightly terrifying paradigm shifting question 00:19:58.680 --> 00:20:00.980 you want to ponder over a craft cocktail in a 00:20:00.980 --> 00:20:03.049 dive bar. Thank you so much for joining us on 00:20:03.049 --> 00:20:04.930 this deep dive. Keep questioning the boundaries 00:20:04.930 --> 00:20:06.589 of your own playlists, and we will catch you 00:20:06.589 --> 00:20:07.109 on the next one.