WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:03.100 Imagine looking at your calendar, right? You 00:00:03.100 --> 00:00:05.679 circle your 30th birthday and you make a literal 00:00:05.679 --> 00:00:09.240 blood pact. Oh, wow. Yeah. And the terms of this 00:00:09.240 --> 00:00:11.960 pack are just, well, they're devastatingly simple. 00:00:12.199 --> 00:00:14.640 You have exactly 10 years to find a way to make 00:00:14.640 --> 00:00:16.980 a living through your art. Right. And if you 00:00:16.980 --> 00:00:19.640 fail, the backup plan isn't, you know, going 00:00:19.640 --> 00:00:21.660 back to a desk job or moving in with your parents. 00:00:21.739 --> 00:00:24.239 The backup plan is ending your own life. I mean, 00:00:24.559 --> 00:00:27.379 it completely replaces every ounce of traditional 00:00:27.379 --> 00:00:31.660 ambition with this very dark, fatalistic desperation. 00:00:31.940 --> 00:00:33.939 Exactly. The countdown clock isn't ticking toward 00:00:33.939 --> 00:00:36.979 a career milestone. It's ticking toward an absolute 00:00:36.979 --> 00:00:39.640 permanent end. And that visceral life or death 00:00:39.640 --> 00:00:42.539 countdown is exactly where our story begins today. 00:00:43.259 --> 00:00:46.119 So welcome to this deep dive. Today our mission 00:00:46.119 --> 00:00:49.840 is to track the unbelievable chronological and 00:00:49.840 --> 00:00:52.399 thematic evolution of the American hip -hop duo 00:00:52.399 --> 00:00:55.479 Suicide Boys. Which is just a massive wild journey. 00:00:55.679 --> 00:00:57.719 It really is. And even if you aren't a rap fan, 00:00:57.920 --> 00:00:59.200 you know, even if you don't listen to a single 00:00:59.200 --> 00:01:01.520 note of underground or extreme music, you really 00:01:01.520 --> 00:01:03.759 need to hear this. For sure. Because it's not 00:01:03.759 --> 00:01:06.120 a standard music industry biography at all. No, 00:01:06.200 --> 00:01:09.000 not even close. This is a master class in extreme 00:01:09.000 --> 00:01:12.019 commitment. It's a study in how to build a massive 00:01:12.019 --> 00:01:15.859 cult -like brand entirely on your own terms without 00:01:15.859 --> 00:01:18.099 a shred of help from the mainstream industry 00:01:18.099 --> 00:01:21.319 Yeah, completely DIY right and most importantly 00:01:21.319 --> 00:01:24.439 It's about having the raw courage to completely 00:01:24.439 --> 00:01:27.599 evolve your identity when your actual life depends 00:01:27.599 --> 00:01:30.599 on it We're gonna look at how two cousins from 00:01:30.599 --> 00:01:33.680 New Orleans built an empire on the darkest themes 00:01:33.680 --> 00:01:38.430 imaginable and then just recently in 2025, executed 00:01:38.430 --> 00:01:41.569 one of the most unexpected radical pivots in 00:01:41.569 --> 00:01:44.370 modern history. So OK, let's unpack this. Yeah, 00:01:44.469 --> 00:01:46.489 and to understand the sheer scale of that pivot, 00:01:46.609 --> 00:01:48.609 we really have to start at the absolute bottom. 00:01:48.670 --> 00:01:51.109 Right, before the sold out arenas. Exactly, before 00:01:51.109 --> 00:01:53.450 the arenas, before the billboard charts. We're 00:01:53.450 --> 00:01:55.930 looking at two cousins in Louisiana in the early 00:01:55.930 --> 00:01:58.469 2010s, whose lives were basically heading nowhere. 00:01:58.709 --> 00:02:00.810 And they were painfully aware of that fact. Let's 00:02:00.810 --> 00:02:02.489 look at who these guys actually were before the 00:02:02.489 --> 00:02:05.030 fame hit. because their early backgrounds were 00:02:05.030 --> 00:02:07.709 this fascinating study in contrasts, I think. 00:02:08.189 --> 00:02:10.650 Oh, definitely. So first you have Scott Arsenault 00:02:10.650 --> 00:02:13.469 Jr., who goes by the stage name Scrim, born in 00:02:13.469 --> 00:02:17.110 1989. OK. And he's buying his first laptop to 00:02:17.110 --> 00:02:19.789 produce music using money he made from selling 00:02:19.789 --> 00:02:23.389 drugs. Wow. Yeah. He's DJing parties at Delgado 00:02:23.389 --> 00:02:26.229 Community College, working at a used furniture 00:02:26.229 --> 00:02:28.550 store just to make ends meet until he gets fired 00:02:28.550 --> 00:02:31.330 for a very specific reason. Let me guess. He 00:02:31.330 --> 00:02:33.819 decided to get his hands tattooed. I mean, that's 00:02:33.819 --> 00:02:35.780 essentially a self -destruct button for a normal 00:02:35.780 --> 00:02:39.120 life, right? Especially in the early 2010s. Getting 00:02:39.120 --> 00:02:42.180 highly visible hand tattoos while working a retail 00:02:42.180 --> 00:02:46.080 job is a conscious decision to burn your bridges 00:02:46.080 --> 00:02:48.680 to traditional employment. Oh, 100%. The physical 00:02:48.680 --> 00:02:51.159 declaration that you refuse to participate in 00:02:51.159 --> 00:02:54.300 the normal corporate ecosystem. And then on the 00:02:54.300 --> 00:02:56.139 other side of the family, you have his cousin, 00:02:56.479 --> 00:02:59.240 Aristos Petrou, who goes by Ruby to Cherry. Right, 00:02:59.340 --> 00:03:02.020 and Ruby, born in 1990, has a completely different 00:03:02.020 --> 00:03:04.219 upbringing. Oh, so. While his father, Pavlos, 00:03:04.340 --> 00:03:06.759 is a Greek Cypriot immigrant who actually came 00:03:06.759 --> 00:03:08.620 to the U .S. on an athletic scholarship for the 00:03:08.620 --> 00:03:10.639 University of New Orleans, he became a soccer 00:03:10.639 --> 00:03:13.599 coach. Oh, interesting. Yeah, and Ruby is working 00:03:13.599 --> 00:03:16.960 as a waiter at his dad's restaurant. But musically, 00:03:17.379 --> 00:03:19.819 the kid is a prodigy. He's playing the violin 00:03:19.819 --> 00:03:22.259 at age seven, drums by ten. Quite the range. 00:03:22.460 --> 00:03:25.099 Seriously. And by the time he's a teenager, he's 00:03:25.099 --> 00:03:27.539 playing in local punk bands, most notably one 00:03:27.539 --> 00:03:30.680 called Vapo Rats. Vapo Rats. Great name. Right. 00:03:30.879 --> 00:03:33.460 But he's growing incredibly disillusioned because 00:03:33.460 --> 00:03:36.159 his bandmates simply don't care about the future 00:03:36.159 --> 00:03:38.340 of the group. They just lack the intensity he 00:03:38.340 --> 00:03:40.939 brings to the table. So by 2013, you have these 00:03:42.140 --> 00:03:45.780 They are creatively frustrated, deeply dissatisfied 00:03:45.780 --> 00:03:48.659 with the direction of their lives, and they realize 00:03:48.659 --> 00:03:51.080 they both want to take music seriously. Yeah. 00:03:51.300 --> 00:03:53.419 But they don't just, you know, shake hands and 00:03:53.419 --> 00:03:55.639 form a group. They form that pact we talked about 00:03:55.639 --> 00:03:58.159 at the top of the show. The blood pact. Yeah. 00:03:58.659 --> 00:04:01.000 Scrim described it later in an interview as literally 00:04:01.000 --> 00:04:03.759 cutting their hands, bleeding, and agreeing that 00:04:03.759 --> 00:04:05.360 if this didn't happen by the time they turned 00:04:05.360 --> 00:04:08.490 30... they were gonna kill themselves. It's so 00:04:08.490 --> 00:04:11.449 intense. He called it having no plan B. And, 00:04:11.629 --> 00:04:13.310 you know, in business, you always hear startup 00:04:13.310 --> 00:04:15.210 founders talk about burning the boats. Right, 00:04:15.210 --> 00:04:18.649 that old cliche. Exactly. The idea that you eliminate 00:04:18.649 --> 00:04:20.870 your safety net so you have no choice but to 00:04:20.870 --> 00:04:23.370 succeed. But instead of burning venture capital, 00:04:23.769 --> 00:04:26.470 they were staking their actual lives. So I have 00:04:26.470 --> 00:04:29.310 to ask you, does starting from a place of absolute 00:04:29.310 --> 00:04:32.970 fatalistic desperation create a different kind 00:04:32.970 --> 00:04:36.170 of art than starting from, say, pure ambition. 00:04:36.529 --> 00:04:39.290 Oh absolutely. What's fascinating here is that 00:04:39.290 --> 00:04:43.389 the no plan B mentality effectively removes the 00:04:43.389 --> 00:04:46.000 commercial filter. How do you mean? Well, think 00:04:46.000 --> 00:04:48.139 about the mechanics of the music industry. If 00:04:48.139 --> 00:04:49.980 your goal is to get rich and famous, you look 00:04:49.980 --> 00:04:51.740 at what's playing on the radio, you study the 00:04:51.740 --> 00:04:53.279 current trends, and you try to mimic them, right? 00:04:53.279 --> 00:04:55.220 Right. You try to please a record label executive. 00:04:55.560 --> 00:04:58.139 Exactly. But if your goal is just to justify 00:04:58.139 --> 00:05:00.680 your own existence before a self -imposed death 00:05:00.680 --> 00:05:02.939 sentence, you have literally nothing to lose. 00:05:03.079 --> 00:05:05.160 You aren't worried about radio play. That makes 00:05:05.160 --> 00:05:07.240 sense. You make exactly what you want, however 00:05:07.240 --> 00:05:09.980 harsh or abrasive or disturbing it is. And the 00:05:09.980 --> 00:05:13.339 paradox is that this absolute unfiltered authenticity 00:05:13.339 --> 00:05:16.639 is exactly what eventually drew millions of people 00:05:16.639 --> 00:05:19.519 to them. Yeah, that fatalistic origin birthed 00:05:19.519 --> 00:05:21.459 a sound that mainstream radio wouldn't touch 00:05:21.459 --> 00:05:24.000 with a 10 -foot pole. And yet, it turned out 00:05:24.000 --> 00:05:25.899 millions of people desperately wanted to hear 00:05:25.899 --> 00:05:27.939 it. How did they actually build this without 00:05:27.939 --> 00:05:31.000 a label, though? So, they built a completely 00:05:31.000 --> 00:05:34.339 self -contained ecosystem. They didn't wait for 00:05:34.339 --> 00:05:36.800 a label to understand them or give them a budget. 00:05:37.199 --> 00:05:40.459 They started their own independent label, G59 00:05:40.459 --> 00:05:43.689 Records. Wow. Just did it themselves. Yeah. And 00:05:43.689 --> 00:05:46.769 musically, they were entirely DIY. Almost their 00:05:46.769 --> 00:05:49.250 entire early discography was self -produced by 00:05:49.250 --> 00:05:52.350 Scrim, operating under the producer alias Bud 00:05:52.350 --> 00:05:54.290 Dwyer. And for those who might not be familiar 00:05:54.290 --> 00:05:56.610 with the nuances of underground hip hop, we should 00:05:56.610 --> 00:05:58.529 probably explain what this actually sounded like. 00:05:58.629 --> 00:06:00.589 Because it wasn't just standard rap. Not at all. 00:06:00.759 --> 00:06:02.980 They essentially took the heavy rattling bass 00:06:02.980 --> 00:06:06.120 and fast hi -hats of modern trap music, but they 00:06:06.120 --> 00:06:08.339 layered it with the agonizing distorted emotion 00:06:08.339 --> 00:06:11.420 of 90s grunge and punk rock. Yeah, that's a great 00:06:11.420 --> 00:06:12.860 way to describe it. It sounds like a haunted 00:06:12.860 --> 00:06:14.879 house playing out of a blown car speaker, you 00:06:14.879 --> 00:06:18.379 know? It's punk rap, emo rap, and it heavily 00:06:18.379 --> 00:06:20.639 borrows from a very specific regional sound. 00:06:21.160 --> 00:06:23.680 The Memphis rap scene, specifically the legendary 00:06:23.680 --> 00:06:27.100 group 3 -6 Mafia, that influence is crucial. 00:06:27.689 --> 00:06:30.649 Early on, the Suicide Boys sampled Three Six 00:06:30.649 --> 00:06:34.269 Mafia heavily. Right. They love that dark, lo 00:06:34.269 --> 00:06:37.310 -fi horror movie aesthetic of 90s Memphis rap. 00:06:37.870 --> 00:06:40.449 But, you know, it caused a massive divide among 00:06:40.449 --> 00:06:43.610 the original Three Six members. Really? Like 00:06:43.610 --> 00:06:46.230 who? Well, Gangsta Boo was highly critical of 00:06:46.230 --> 00:06:48.490 them, essentially accusing them of cultural theft 00:06:48.490 --> 00:06:51.709 and appropriation. But Juicy J, one of the founding 00:06:51.709 --> 00:06:54.329 members and absolute royalty in the Southern 00:06:54.329 --> 00:06:57.029 rap scene, completely embraced them. I mean, 00:06:57.110 --> 00:06:59.810 to understand how crazy that is, having Juicy 00:06:59.810 --> 00:07:02.529 J validate you in the underground rap world is 00:07:02.529 --> 00:07:04.129 like getting tapped on the shoulder by the Pope. 00:07:04.430 --> 00:07:06.529 Exactly. It's the ultimate cosign. He didn't 00:07:06.529 --> 00:07:08.589 just cosign them, though. He mentored them and 00:07:08.589 --> 00:07:10.670 actually had the Suicide Boys produce his own 00:07:10.670 --> 00:07:13.500 mixtapes. Yeah. But the sonic aesthetic was really 00:07:13.500 --> 00:07:15.959 only half the equation. The content of the music 00:07:15.959 --> 00:07:18.000 is what truly set them apart. Right, the lyrics. 00:07:18.300 --> 00:07:20.759 They weren't rapping about clubs, luxury cars, 00:07:20.879 --> 00:07:23.560 or wealth. They were rapping extensively about 00:07:23.560 --> 00:07:26.959 suicidal ideation, severe depression, and isolation. 00:07:27.220 --> 00:07:29.560 I mean, they released over 10 iterations of an 00:07:29.560 --> 00:07:32.240 EP series literally called Kill Yourself. And 00:07:32.240 --> 00:07:34.040 the numbers they did on these incredibly dark 00:07:34.040 --> 00:07:37.600 tracks are staggering. Their track, Paris, has 00:07:37.600 --> 00:07:41.019 over 184 million views on YouTube. That's wild. 00:07:41.000 --> 00:07:44.600 and a deeply melancholic song called and to those 00:07:44.600 --> 00:07:48.579 I love thanks for sticking around hit over 544 00:07:48.579 --> 00:07:51.600 million streams on Spotify. Yeah, it's so important 00:07:51.600 --> 00:07:54.480 to understand how rare that subject matter was 00:07:54.480 --> 00:07:57.079 in the broader hip hop landscape at the time. 00:07:57.540 --> 00:07:59.560 Scrim made a really poignant distinction in an 00:07:59.560 --> 00:08:01.319 interview, actually. What did he say? He said, 00:08:01.579 --> 00:08:03.560 people interpret it as negative music, but for 00:08:03.560 --> 00:08:06.660 them, it was therapy through music. OK, I have 00:08:06.660 --> 00:08:08.240 to push back on that idea for a second. Sure. 00:08:08.480 --> 00:08:10.319 Because we see a lot of artists, especially in 00:08:10.319 --> 00:08:13.810 the internet age, monetizing angst. it can become 00:08:13.810 --> 00:08:16.910 a very lucrative aesthetic. Oh, absolutely. Sadness 00:08:16.910 --> 00:08:19.730 sells. Right. When you realize that being sad 00:08:19.730 --> 00:08:21.930 sells merchandise, it's easy to lean into it. 00:08:22.370 --> 00:08:25.170 So how do you distinguish between an artist... 00:08:25.209 --> 00:08:27.449 Using depression as a marketing gimmick to sell 00:08:27.449 --> 00:08:30.810 hoodies versus genuine therapy through music 00:08:30.810 --> 00:08:33.129 That is the defining question for this entire 00:08:33.129 --> 00:08:35.629 genre I think and the proof of their authenticity 00:08:35.629 --> 00:08:38.610 really comes down to specificity specificity 00:08:38.610 --> 00:08:41.809 Yeah, they weren't using vague generalized sad 00:08:41.809 --> 00:08:44.950 lyrics that anyone could project onto They were 00:08:44.950 --> 00:08:48.230 grounding their pain and their actual grim reality 00:08:48.230 --> 00:08:51.210 using highly specific New Orleans references 00:08:51.210 --> 00:08:54.049 Okay, like they named songs after local streets 00:08:54.049 --> 00:08:58.289 like Bon into Lane. It wasn't some curated hot 00:08:58.289 --> 00:09:00.470 topic version of sadness. It was real. It was 00:09:00.470 --> 00:09:02.809 like watching someone bleed out in real time 00:09:02.809 --> 00:09:05.389 on a microphone. And millions of listeners who 00:09:05.389 --> 00:09:07.330 were secretly bleeding in the same way suddenly 00:09:07.330 --> 00:09:09.409 realized they weren't alone. The audience could 00:09:09.409 --> 00:09:11.049 just tell they weren't playing characters. But 00:09:11.049 --> 00:09:13.389 here is the terrifying paradox of making therapy 00:09:13.389 --> 00:09:16.960 music, right? When you get rich and famous for 00:09:16.960 --> 00:09:19.220 rapping about severe drug use and depression, 00:09:19.740 --> 00:09:22.200 you suddenly have unlimited funds to buy the 00:09:22.200 --> 00:09:24.279 exact drugs that are killing you. It's a deadly 00:09:24.279 --> 00:09:27.299 cycle. The raw honesty that built their fan base 00:09:27.299 --> 00:09:30.159 wasn't just an artistic choice. It was a real 00:09:30.159 --> 00:09:33.299 -time documentary of a downward spiral. The lifestyle 00:09:33.299 --> 00:09:35.460 caught up with them. And the reality of that 00:09:35.460 --> 00:09:38.570 journey was incredibly grim. Both Scrim and Ruby 00:09:38.570 --> 00:09:40.909 struggled deeply with drug addiction as their 00:09:40.909 --> 00:09:44.409 fame skyrocketed. Scrim actually admitted in 00:09:44.409 --> 00:09:47.129 a really raw interview on the platform, No Jumper, 00:09:47.429 --> 00:09:49.629 that at one point his addiction was so severe 00:09:49.629 --> 00:09:52.509 he was luring people on Craigslist just to rob 00:09:52.509 --> 00:09:55.289 them, purely to feed his habit. That's horrifying. 00:09:55.440 --> 00:09:58.620 It is. The morality of the situation had completely 00:09:58.620 --> 00:10:00.940 eroded under the weight of the addiction. And 00:10:00.940 --> 00:10:03.799 alongside the addiction came massive public controversies. 00:10:04.059 --> 00:10:07.059 Early on, they leaned heavily into satanic imagery, 00:10:07.100 --> 00:10:09.700 which obviously alienated a massive portion of 00:10:09.700 --> 00:10:11.879 the mainstream public. Right. Predictably. Now, 00:10:11.879 --> 00:10:13.899 Skrim later explained that this wasn't literal 00:10:13.899 --> 00:10:17.019 devil worship. He said it was a madey -nim, a 00:10:17.019 --> 00:10:19.320 symbol used to represent the negative, manipulating 00:10:19.320 --> 00:10:21.679 effects of money and drugs, and a reflection 00:10:21.679 --> 00:10:24.100 of his deep dislike for organized religion at 00:10:24.100 --> 00:10:25.970 the time. But you know, when you're touring the 00:10:25.970 --> 00:10:28.769 world with inverted crosses, the nuance of a 00:10:28.769 --> 00:10:31.129 metonym is usually lost on the general public. 00:10:31.470 --> 00:10:33.289 Exactly. And they were also facing devastating 00:10:33.289 --> 00:10:35.289 professional hurdles around this time, too, right? 00:10:35.289 --> 00:10:39.370 Yeah, huge ones. In 2016, the massive EDM producer 00:10:39.370 --> 00:10:42.750 Deadmau5 accused them of copyright infringement 00:10:42.750 --> 00:10:45.789 over their breakout song, Antarctica, which sampled 00:10:45.789 --> 00:10:49.470 his track, I Remember. For an independent artist, 00:10:49.730 --> 00:10:52.070 a copyright strike isn't just a slap on the wrist. 00:10:52.350 --> 00:10:56.210 It chokes off your revenue stream entirely. Deadmau5 00:10:56.210 --> 00:10:59.230 publicly lambasted them, and the song, which 00:10:59.230 --> 00:11:01.669 was one of their biggest hits, was forcibly pulled 00:11:01.669 --> 00:11:04.429 from the internet for four years. Yet, despite 00:11:04.429 --> 00:11:07.309 all the industry pushback, the real crisis was 00:11:07.309 --> 00:11:10.220 internal. By 2018, they released their debut 00:11:10.220 --> 00:11:12.940 studio album, I Want to Die in New Orleans. A 00:11:12.940 --> 00:11:15.840 huge milestone. It's a massive commercial success, 00:11:16.240 --> 00:11:18.659 hitting the top 10 on the Billboard 200. But 00:11:18.659 --> 00:11:20.460 right at the peak of this breakthrough, rumors 00:11:20.460 --> 00:11:22.919 start swirling through the fan base that the 00:11:22.919 --> 00:11:25.519 duo was breaking up. Yeah, I remember that. There 00:11:25.519 --> 00:11:28.000 are all these ominous, fragmented tweets being 00:11:28.000 --> 00:11:31.320 posted. But it turns out they weren't breaking 00:11:31.320 --> 00:11:34.629 up. The tweets were a public manifestation of 00:11:34.629 --> 00:11:38.250 Scrim's severe personal issues and his addiction 00:11:38.250 --> 00:11:40.809 reaching an absolute boiling point. And if we 00:11:40.809 --> 00:11:43.850 look at the mechanics of fame, this is the ultimate 00:11:43.850 --> 00:11:47.269 trap of the extreme artist. You build a massive, 00:11:47.590 --> 00:11:50.490 fiercely loyal following by sharing your darkest 00:11:50.490 --> 00:11:52.769 thoughts and your self -destructive behavior. 00:11:53.149 --> 00:11:55.769 Right. The audience bonds with your pain. They 00:11:55.769 --> 00:11:58.350 feel seen by your suffering. But what happens 00:11:58.350 --> 00:12:00.549 when that pain starts actually shutting down 00:12:00.549 --> 00:12:02.710 your organs? What happens when the aesthetic 00:12:02.710 --> 00:12:05.450 is no longer sustainable? It's the classic tragedy 00:12:05.450 --> 00:12:07.429 of the tortured artist. I mean, here's where 00:12:07.429 --> 00:12:09.889 it gets really interesting. When your fans love 00:12:09.889 --> 00:12:12.129 you specifically for your darkness and your substance 00:12:12.129 --> 00:12:15.049 abuse, how on earth do you step off the ride 00:12:15.049 --> 00:12:17.049 without losing the very audience that put you 00:12:17.049 --> 00:12:19.090 there? It's almost impossible. If you get healthy, 00:12:19.110 --> 00:12:20.850 do you lose your brand? Do you lose your livelihood? 00:12:21.149 --> 00:12:23.370 Audience expectations can become a cycle. psychological 00:12:23.370 --> 00:12:26.129 prison. Breaking that cycle requires risking 00:12:26.129 --> 00:12:29.029 everything you've spent years building. The fear 00:12:29.029 --> 00:12:31.970 is that if you change, if you go to rehab, you 00:12:31.970 --> 00:12:34.090 risk being called a sellout by the underground 00:12:34.090 --> 00:12:36.929 community that demands authenticity. But the 00:12:36.929 --> 00:12:40.320 grim reality is, if you don't change... you die. 00:12:40.659 --> 00:12:43.179 So faced with the reality of that 2013 death 00:12:43.179 --> 00:12:45.820 pact essentially coming due just in the form 00:12:45.820 --> 00:12:48.259 of an overdose instead of a bullet they chose 00:12:48.259 --> 00:12:50.740 life. Thank goodness. And over the last few years 00:12:50.740 --> 00:12:53.940 they executed a radical almost unthinkable thematic 00:12:53.940 --> 00:12:56.610 pivot. They stepped out of the prison. They really 00:12:56.610 --> 00:12:59.389 did. And it began with doing the incredibly hard, 00:12:59.649 --> 00:13:02.210 unglamorous work of recovery. Scrim got sober 00:13:02.210 --> 00:13:06.230 first in February 2019. He stepped away, utilized 00:13:06.230 --> 00:13:08.929 12 -step programs, and went into intensive therapy. 00:13:09.090 --> 00:13:11.029 And what about Ruby? Ruby followed about a year 00:13:11.029 --> 00:13:13.389 and a half later. He checked into a drug rehab 00:13:13.389 --> 00:13:16.629 facility in October 2020 after a serious intervention 00:13:16.629 --> 00:13:18.669 by their management team. You know, a lot of 00:13:18.669 --> 00:13:20.830 artists fear that getting sober will kill their 00:13:20.830 --> 00:13:23.309 creative edge. But for the Suicide Boys, removing 00:13:23.309 --> 00:13:25.809 the drugs basically remove the ceiling on their 00:13:25.809 --> 00:13:29.129 work ethic. Oh, they entered this massive creative 00:13:29.129 --> 00:13:31.230 renaissance. Totally. They dropped the album 00:13:31.230 --> 00:13:34.629 Long Term Effects of Suffering in 2021. In 2023, 00:13:34.649 --> 00:13:37.169 they released a four -part EP series called The 00:13:37.169 --> 00:13:40.269 Yin Yang Tapes that flawlessly captured that 00:13:40.269 --> 00:13:42.169 90s Memphis rap sound they had always loved. 00:13:42.309 --> 00:13:44.649 Yeah, that was huge for them. And they both launched 00:13:44.649 --> 00:13:47.529 major solo projects, too. Yeah. Ruby doing actual 00:13:47.529 --> 00:13:50.309 punk rock under the alter ego Duckboy and Scrim 00:13:50.309 --> 00:13:53.990 dropping a massive, sprawling 44 -song solo project 00:13:53.990 --> 00:13:58.000 in 2024 called Lone But the most profound shift 00:13:58.000 --> 00:14:00.279 wasn't just musical productivity. It was a deep 00:14:00.279 --> 00:14:03.039 philosophical and spiritual shift. Yeah. The 00:14:03.039 --> 00:14:05.759 duo that had built an empire on inverted crosses, 00:14:05.960 --> 00:14:08.980 pentagrams, and themes of eternal damnation began 00:14:08.980 --> 00:14:11.980 experiencing a very public, very earnest spiritual 00:14:11.980 --> 00:14:14.919 awakening. It is wild to track the physical manifestation 00:14:14.919 --> 00:14:17.100 of this. I mean, Scrim literally had an inverted 00:14:17.100 --> 00:14:19.460 cross tattooed on his forehead. A pretty permanent 00:14:19.460 --> 00:14:22.899 statement. Right. In 2017, he covered it up with 00:14:22.899 --> 00:14:26.610 a tattoo of a pitchfork. But then by 2024, he 00:14:26.610 --> 00:14:28.830 was openly considering covering the pitchfork 00:14:28.830 --> 00:14:31.250 with the traditional crucifix. Talk about a 180. 00:14:31.830 --> 00:14:34.870 And 2025 is really the watershed year for this 00:14:34.870 --> 00:14:38.830 evolution. In April of 2025, Scrim does a live 00:14:38.830 --> 00:14:41.470 stream and officially confirms his conversion 00:14:41.470 --> 00:14:43.850 to Christianity. Yeah. And he doesn't just say 00:14:43.850 --> 00:14:47.110 he found God, he explains the mechanism of his 00:14:47.110 --> 00:14:50.490 conversion. He tells his fans that he spent years 00:14:50.490 --> 00:14:53.110 studying Christian apologetics, listening to 00:14:53.110 --> 00:14:55.850 theological debates, actively trying to see if 00:14:55.850 --> 00:14:57.990 the historical and philosophical evidence of 00:14:57.990 --> 00:15:01.470 Christ was compelling. And he concluded that 00:15:01.470 --> 00:15:04.309 it was. He explicitly stated to his audience, 00:15:04.879 --> 00:15:07.120 I believe that journey of sobriety has led me 00:15:07.120 --> 00:15:09.100 to Christ. It's amazing. He even admitted on 00:15:09.100 --> 00:15:11.399 that stream that he initially feared judgment 00:15:11.399 --> 00:15:14.080 from his own fan base. He was terrified of how 00:15:14.080 --> 00:15:16.379 the underground edgelord culture would react 00:15:16.379 --> 00:15:18.759 to him finding religion, which makes sense. Yeah. 00:15:18.860 --> 00:15:21.039 But he noted that he had seen enough miracles 00:15:21.039 --> 00:15:23.399 in his own recovery, you know, surviving when 00:15:23.399 --> 00:15:25.379 he mathematically shouldn't have that he felt 00:15:25.379 --> 00:15:27.600 absolutely no embarrassment anymore. And it wasn't 00:15:27.600 --> 00:15:30.379 just Scrim having a solitary experience in July 00:15:30.379 --> 00:15:33.750 of 2025. The duo does a major interview with 00:15:33.750 --> 00:15:36.169 Billboard magazine. Ruby is sitting there wearing 00:15:36.169 --> 00:15:39.190 a camo cap with Jesus on the front and Christian 00:15:39.190 --> 00:15:42.070 fish symbols all over it. Scrim tells Billboard 00:15:42.070 --> 00:15:44.309 that it's his genuine belief God put them in 00:15:44.309 --> 00:15:46.529 this massive position of influence specifically 00:15:46.529 --> 00:15:49.190 to help people out of the dark. And Ruby agrees, 00:15:49.669 --> 00:15:51.690 adding a detail that would have been unthinkable 00:15:51.690 --> 00:15:54.529 five years prior. They actually pray together 00:15:54.529 --> 00:15:57.500 before every single show now. This completely 00:15:57.500 --> 00:15:59.940 redefined their artistic output. Just look at 00:15:59.940 --> 00:16:02.399 the timeline of their releases last year. In 00:16:02.399 --> 00:16:05.259 August 2025, they release a highly anticipated 00:16:05.259 --> 00:16:08.700 album titled, Thy Kingdom Come. The album art 00:16:08.700 --> 00:16:11.639 isn't gothic horror. It features orthodox Christian 00:16:11.639 --> 00:16:14.799 iconography and a wall of crucifixes. They promoted 00:16:14.799 --> 00:16:17.419 the album with long form YouTube episodes featuring 00:16:17.419 --> 00:16:20.379 actual church choirs and testimonies of local 00:16:20.379 --> 00:16:23.500 New Orleans converts. Then out of nowhere on 00:16:23.500 --> 00:16:26.299 Christmas Day 2025, they drop an unannounced 00:16:26.299 --> 00:16:28.960 project called Thy Will Be Done. I look at this 00:16:28.960 --> 00:16:31.179 and I think of it as a reverse Faustian bargain. 00:16:31.700 --> 00:16:33.500 You know the old blues myth of selling your soul 00:16:33.500 --> 00:16:35.320 to the devil at the crossroads to get famous? 00:16:35.580 --> 00:16:38.240 It's like they used the darkest, most demonic 00:16:38.240 --> 00:16:40.899 imagery possible to get the world's attention. 00:16:41.720 --> 00:16:43.740 And once they had the biggest underground megaphone 00:16:43.740 --> 00:16:47.080 on earth, once everyone was listening, they used 00:16:47.080 --> 00:16:50.720 that exact platform to promote recovery, sobriety, 00:16:50.940 --> 00:16:52.960 and faith. That's a great analogy. But I've got 00:16:52.960 --> 00:16:56.090 to ask. We all know how deeply cynical the internet 00:16:56.090 --> 00:16:59.669 can be. Why do you think their incredibly loyal, 00:16:59.950 --> 00:17:04.430 edgy, underground fan base accepted this massive 00:17:04.430 --> 00:17:07.970 pivot to Christianity and sobriety? Why didn't 00:17:07.970 --> 00:17:10.390 the fans just riot, write them off and call them 00:17:10.390 --> 00:17:12.869 sellouts? This raises a vital question about 00:17:12.869 --> 00:17:15.089 what audiences actually connect with in the long 00:17:15.089 --> 00:17:17.539 term. The through line here isn't the aesthetic 00:17:17.539 --> 00:17:19.920 of darkness. It's the mechanism of authenticity. 00:17:20.859 --> 00:17:22.400 Their fans didn't fall in love with them just 00:17:22.400 --> 00:17:24.059 because they talked about the devil or did hard 00:17:24.059 --> 00:17:25.619 drugs. They fell in love with them because they 00:17:25.619 --> 00:17:27.880 were brutally, uncomfortably honest about their 00:17:27.880 --> 00:17:30.519 internal state. When they were suicidal, they 00:17:30.519 --> 00:17:33.059 rapped about being suicidal. When they realized 00:17:33.059 --> 00:17:35.460 they were entirely powerless over their addiction 00:17:35.460 --> 00:17:38.279 and needed a higher power to survive, they were 00:17:38.279 --> 00:17:40.039 just as brutally honest about that. So it's the 00:17:40.039 --> 00:17:42.450 honesty that stayed the same. Exactly. They didn't 00:17:42.450 --> 00:17:45.910 change to be more commercial. I mean, if anything, 00:17:46.309 --> 00:17:48.470 dropping a Christian -themed album with Orthodox 00:17:48.470 --> 00:17:51.069 choir samples in the modern rap scene is deeply 00:17:51.069 --> 00:17:53.289 anti -commercial. Very true. They changed to 00:17:53.289 --> 00:17:55.910 survive. And the vulnerability of a tattooed, 00:17:55.910 --> 00:17:58.910 hardcore rapper admitting he needs God is, in 00:17:58.910 --> 00:18:01.809 its own way, just as raw and punk rock as their 00:18:01.809 --> 00:18:05.109 early lyrics about depression. The fans recognized 00:18:05.109 --> 00:18:06.950 the truth in it because it was the same truth 00:18:06.950 --> 00:18:08.710 -teller on the microphone. So what does this 00:18:08.710 --> 00:18:11.700 all mean for us? If we zoom out and look at the 00:18:11.700 --> 00:18:14.099 entire arc, we're talking about two cousins who 00:18:14.099 --> 00:18:16.900 started in a basement in 2013 with a literal 00:18:16.900 --> 00:18:20.599 suicide pact, a hard deadline to die. Yeah. They 00:18:20.599 --> 00:18:23.099 descended into the absolute worst depths of addiction, 00:18:23.720 --> 00:18:25.859 built a multi -million dollar cult falling out 00:18:25.859 --> 00:18:28.420 of their misery, and then, against all mathematical 00:18:28.420 --> 00:18:30.940 odds, chose to live. It's incredible. And not 00:18:30.940 --> 00:18:32.859 just live, but completely dismantle and rebuild 00:18:32.859 --> 00:18:36.029 themselves. By 2025, they're commanding the Billboard 00:18:36.029 --> 00:18:38.690 chart entirely on their own terms, dropping albums 00:18:38.690 --> 00:18:40.789 named Thy Kingdom Come and praying before they 00:18:40.789 --> 00:18:42.509 walk out to screen their lungs out to arenas 00:18:42.509 --> 00:18:45.450 full of fans. It stands as the ultimate study 00:18:45.450 --> 00:18:49.029 in radical personal evolution. It proves a concept 00:18:49.029 --> 00:18:52.269 that many people struggle with. You are never 00:18:52.269 --> 00:18:55.190 locked into your past brand, especially if that 00:18:55.190 --> 00:18:57.410 brand is destroying you from the inside out. 00:18:57.750 --> 00:19:00.119 I think the big takeaway for you... listening 00:19:00.119 --> 00:19:02.000 right now, whether you're trying to build a business, 00:19:02.559 --> 00:19:04.380 navigating a complex relationship, or just trying 00:19:04.380 --> 00:19:08.019 to figure out your own life, is that true lasting 00:19:08.019 --> 00:19:11.099 connection doesn't come from maintaining a polished, 00:19:11.500 --> 00:19:14.640 consistent facade. It comes from radical, sometimes 00:19:14.640 --> 00:19:17.740 deeply uncomfortable honesty. If you're struggling, 00:19:18.039 --> 00:19:20.099 be honest about it. Let people see the mess. 00:19:20.359 --> 00:19:22.880 And if you find a way out of the dark, have the 00:19:22.880 --> 00:19:24.680 courage to be honest about that too, even if 00:19:24.680 --> 00:19:27.259 it confuses or alienates the people who only 00:19:27.259 --> 00:19:29.819 knew the old you. You do not have to stay in 00:19:29.819 --> 00:19:31.700 the dark just because that's where people are 00:19:31.700 --> 00:19:34.759 used to finding you. It is a powerful real -world 00:19:34.759 --> 00:19:37.339 lesson in giving yourself permission to survive, 00:19:37.720 --> 00:19:39.819 regardless of the expectations placed upon you. 00:19:40.160 --> 00:19:42.059 Thank you for joining us on this deep dive into 00:19:42.059 --> 00:19:44.180 the incredible evolution of the Suicide Boys. 00:19:44.759 --> 00:19:46.480 But before we go, I want to leave you with a 00:19:46.480 --> 00:19:48.599 final thought to mull over, one that we haven't 00:19:48.599 --> 00:19:51.299 entirely answered today. OK. It goes back to 00:19:51.299 --> 00:19:54.460 that original desperate countdown clock. Now 00:19:54.460 --> 00:19:56.740 that Scrim and Ruby have achieved long -term 00:19:56.740 --> 00:20:00.000 sobriety, found their faith, and have publicly 00:20:00.000 --> 00:20:02.880 stated they are actively trying to save souls 00:20:02.880 --> 00:20:06.200 through their platform, what does the name Suicide 00:20:06.200 --> 00:20:09.059 Boys actually mean today? That's a good question. 00:20:09.279 --> 00:20:11.599 Does it stand as an ironic relic of who they 00:20:11.599 --> 00:20:14.079 used to be? A name they are just stuck with? 00:20:14.599 --> 00:20:17.740 Or is keeping that dark, violent name a permanent, 00:20:17.900 --> 00:20:20.480 necessary reminder to their fans and to themselves 00:20:20.480 --> 00:20:23.319 of exactly how deep the hole was that they managed 00:20:23.319 --> 00:20:25.240 to climb out of? That is something worth thinking 00:20:25.240 --> 00:20:26.660 about. We'll let you sit with that one. Take 00:20:26.660 --> 00:20:27.039 care, everyone.