WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.279 Imagine just for a second, sitting down with 00:00:02.279 --> 00:00:04.980 your husband and making a promise. And not a 00:00:04.980 --> 00:00:07.759 promise to start a business or take a cross -country 00:00:07.759 --> 00:00:10.800 road trip or save up for a house. You look each 00:00:10.800 --> 00:00:13.439 other in the eye and make a literal life or death 00:00:13.439 --> 00:00:16.539 pact. Which is just so intense. Right. You vow 00:00:16.539 --> 00:00:19.399 that if you haven't made it in your chosen career 00:00:19.399 --> 00:00:21.699 by the time you turn 30, you are both going to 00:00:21.699 --> 00:00:25.079 take your own lives. Wow. No plan B. Just this 00:00:25.079 --> 00:00:28.620 ticking clock. a loaded deadline and a desperate 00:00:28.620 --> 00:00:30.980 need to escape the lives you're currently living. 00:00:31.280 --> 00:00:34.259 It is an incredibly jarring premise. Right. And 00:00:34.259 --> 00:00:36.060 I mean, what's crucial to understand here is 00:00:36.060 --> 00:00:37.880 that this wasn't it wasn't a metaphor. Right. 00:00:37.960 --> 00:00:40.759 It wasn't just some edgy posturing. It was a 00:00:40.759 --> 00:00:44.619 very real agreement made back in 2013 by two 00:00:44.619 --> 00:00:47.140 cousins from New Orleans. But the contrast, like 00:00:47.140 --> 00:00:49.780 the contrast is what makes this so insane, because 00:00:49.780 --> 00:00:53.159 today that same duo is literally praying together 00:00:53.159 --> 00:00:55.380 before massive stadium shows and releasing music. 00:00:55.469 --> 00:00:58.390 Christmas a day. It's quite the pivot. It's massive. 00:00:58.609 --> 00:01:00.890 We are of course talking about Scott Arsenault 00:01:00.890 --> 00:01:03.950 Jr. and Aristos Petrou or you know better known 00:01:03.950 --> 00:01:07.109 to millions of people around the world as Scrim 00:01:07.109 --> 00:01:10.150 and Ruby to Cherry. Yes. Together they're the 00:01:10.150 --> 00:01:12.950 underground hip -hop powerhouse known as Suicide 00:01:12.950 --> 00:01:16.609 Boys. So welcome to the Jeep Dive. Glad to be 00:01:16.609 --> 00:01:18.900 here. To figure out how they pulled off one of 00:01:18.900 --> 00:01:22.079 the most radical, unexpected character arcs in 00:01:22.079 --> 00:01:25.359 modern music history, we're looking at a massive 00:01:25.359 --> 00:01:27.340 stack of sources today. We've got everything 00:01:27.340 --> 00:01:30.500 from their earliest, grimiest SoundCloud uploads, 00:01:31.079 --> 00:01:34.879 Billboard interviews, to legal documents from 00:01:34.879 --> 00:01:37.659 industry feuds. And that deeply revealing live 00:01:37.659 --> 00:01:40.620 stream from 2025. Yes, exactly. And you know, 00:01:40.620 --> 00:01:42.859 we're digging into this because even if underground 00:01:42.859 --> 00:01:45.200 hip hop or punk rap isn't anywhere near your 00:01:45.200 --> 00:01:48.099 daily rotation, Their story is really the ultimate 00:01:48.099 --> 00:01:50.959 case study in human reinvention. For you listening, 00:01:51.420 --> 00:01:54.019 it forces a profound question. Like, what actually 00:01:54.019 --> 00:01:56.219 happens when you build your entire identity around 00:01:56.219 --> 00:01:58.780 a no plan B, do or die mentality? And then you 00:01:58.780 --> 00:02:00.900 survive. Exactly. And then you actually survive. 00:02:01.180 --> 00:02:03.260 OK, let's unpack this. Because I want to pause 00:02:03.260 --> 00:02:05.680 on that for a second. Surviving really wasn't 00:02:05.680 --> 00:02:07.739 part of their original business model at all. 00:02:07.900 --> 00:02:10.599 No, not even a little bit. So to understand how 00:02:10.599 --> 00:02:13.979 they got to where they are now in 2026, we have 00:02:13.979 --> 00:02:16.719 to look at the mundane, everyday frustration 00:02:16.719 --> 00:02:19.780 that birthed that extreme pact. We're talking 00:02:19.780 --> 00:02:23.439 about two guys who were deeply deeply dissatisfied 00:02:23.439 --> 00:02:25.539 with their lives. Yeah, they were just stuck. 00:02:25.800 --> 00:02:28.699 Right. Like Scrim was hustling, literally selling 00:02:28.699 --> 00:02:31.099 drugs just to buy his first laptop so he could 00:02:31.099 --> 00:02:34.280 start DJing. He went to Delgado Community College, 00:02:34.620 --> 00:02:37.479 DJed some college parties, and ended up working 00:02:37.479 --> 00:02:40.500 at a used furniture store. Selling used furniture. 00:02:40.819 --> 00:02:43.199 Selling used furniture. And he held that job 00:02:43.199 --> 00:02:46.219 for three years, only to get fired simply because 00:02:46.219 --> 00:02:48.740 he got new tattoos on his hands. What's fascinating 00:02:48.740 --> 00:02:51.520 here is how it's such a grounded, frustrating 00:02:51.520 --> 00:02:55.900 reality compared to the larger -than -life, untouchable 00:02:55.900 --> 00:02:58.259 personas they would eventually adopt. Oh, absolutely. 00:02:58.379 --> 00:03:00.719 And Ruby's background is very similar in that 00:03:00.719 --> 00:03:03.360 sense. His father was a Greek Cypriot immigrant, 00:03:03.840 --> 00:03:05.759 actually a former soccer head coach who came 00:03:05.759 --> 00:03:07.860 to the US on an athletic scholarship. You're 00:03:07.860 --> 00:03:10.240 right, right. Ruby grew up playing violin and 00:03:10.240 --> 00:03:12.819 drums. And he eventually drummed in a local punk 00:03:12.819 --> 00:03:16.319 band called the Vaporats. But he was totally 00:03:16.319 --> 00:03:18.650 disillusioned. You know. Because the band just 00:03:18.650 --> 00:03:21.189 wasn't going anywhere. Exactly. His bandmates 00:03:21.189 --> 00:03:23.310 just didn't care enough about the future of the 00:03:23.310 --> 00:03:26.009 band. So he stuck working as a waiter at his 00:03:26.009 --> 00:03:29.490 dad's restaurant. And get this, he actually kept 00:03:29.490 --> 00:03:33.229 that waiting job all the way until 2015. Wait, 00:03:33.569 --> 00:03:36.990 2015? Yeah. Well, after Suicide Boys was already 00:03:36.990 --> 00:03:39.919 formed and actively releasing music. See, that 00:03:39.919 --> 00:03:41.819 actually makes me wonder about the psychology 00:03:41.819 --> 00:03:43.740 behind their pact, because people always talk 00:03:43.740 --> 00:03:46.020 about the do -or -die mentality in startup culture, 00:03:46.199 --> 00:03:48.219 right? Like, burn the boats, we have to succeed 00:03:48.219 --> 00:03:50.780 because there's no backup plan. The Silicon Valley 00:03:50.780 --> 00:03:53.379 mindset. Yeah, exactly. But this was a literal 00:03:53.379 --> 00:03:55.740 do -or -die incubator. It raises this question, 00:03:56.080 --> 00:03:58.819 does creating art under the literal threat of 00:03:58.819 --> 00:04:01.650 death make the art pure? Or does it just make 00:04:01.650 --> 00:04:03.569 it more desperate? Well, I think it does both. 00:04:03.889 --> 00:04:06.090 And honestly, that combination is exactly what 00:04:06.090 --> 00:04:08.629 made them so magnetic. You take scrimsier for 00:04:08.629 --> 00:04:10.949 hip hop production, and you smash it together 00:04:10.949 --> 00:04:13.210 with Ruby's punk rock apathy and aggression. 00:04:13.349 --> 00:04:17.269 It's a crazy mix. It is. The result was a completely 00:04:17.269 --> 00:04:20.550 uncompromising, genre -blending ethos. I mean, 00:04:20.610 --> 00:04:22.870 when you genuinely believe you are already a 00:04:22.870 --> 00:04:25.970 dead man walking, you aren't trying to fit into 00:04:25.970 --> 00:04:28.350 a radio -friendly box. You don't care about the 00:04:28.350 --> 00:04:30.389 radio. Right. You aren't worried about making 00:04:30.389 --> 00:04:32.889 A &R executives happy. You have zero to lose, 00:04:33.209 --> 00:04:35.410 which means you have total creative freedom. 00:04:35.829 --> 00:04:39.170 And we really need to look at how that nothing 00:04:39.170 --> 00:04:42.110 to lose energy translated into the actual mechanics 00:04:42.110 --> 00:04:44.730 of their rise, because they utilized the internet 00:04:44.730 --> 00:04:46.990 in a way that just wasn't possible a decade earlier. 00:04:47.089 --> 00:04:50.689 Oh, the SoundCloud era. Yeah. In June 2014, they 00:04:50.689 --> 00:04:53.769 released a three -track EP called Kill Yourself 00:04:53.769 --> 00:04:57.230 Part One, The Suicide Saga. They put it on SoundCloud 00:04:57.230 --> 00:04:59.610 and Bandcamp, and then they just kept going. 00:04:59.790 --> 00:05:02.290 They didn't stop. No. They released nine more 00:05:02.290 --> 00:05:04.230 iterations of that Kill Yourself series in the 00:05:04.230 --> 00:05:06.730 following months alone. How does a duo even produce 00:05:06.730 --> 00:05:08.829 that much music that fast? Well, they did it 00:05:08.829 --> 00:05:12.170 by exploiting the completely lawless DIY nature 00:05:12.170 --> 00:05:14.089 of the SoundCloud ecosystem at that time. Because 00:05:14.089 --> 00:05:17.310 it was the Wild West. It really was. In the traditional 00:05:17.310 --> 00:05:19.930 commercial world, releasing an EP takes months 00:05:19.930 --> 00:05:24.170 of planning, clearing samples, marketing, distribution. 00:05:24.910 --> 00:05:28.290 But in 2014 SoundCloud, there were no gatekeepers. 00:05:28.600 --> 00:05:31.040 You just upload it. Exactly. You just make a 00:05:31.040 --> 00:05:33.519 track in your bedroom, drag the audio file into 00:05:33.519 --> 00:05:35.759 your browser, and it's instantly available to 00:05:35.759 --> 00:05:38.060 the entire world. Now it's wild. And Scrim produced 00:05:38.060 --> 00:05:40.430 all the beats himself. often using the pseudonym 00:05:40.430 --> 00:05:43.149 Bud Dwyer, which, by the way, is a very dark 00:05:43.149 --> 00:05:46.069 homage to the Pennsylvania politician who infamously 00:05:46.069 --> 00:05:48.949 took his own life on live television in the 1980s. 00:05:48.990 --> 00:05:51.250 Which definitely cements the grim aesthetic they 00:05:51.250 --> 00:05:53.189 were going for. But let's talk about the actual 00:05:53.189 --> 00:05:55.610 sound, because it's highly specific. Yeah, it 00:05:55.610 --> 00:05:58.529 is. They were heavily influenced by 90s Memphis 00:05:58.529 --> 00:06:01.319 rap. Specifically groups like Three Six Mafia, 00:06:01.480 --> 00:06:03.279 for anyone who doesn't know, Memphis rap from 00:06:03.279 --> 00:06:05.879 that era is characterized by this very lo -fi, 00:06:06.079 --> 00:06:09.500 gritty cassette tape hiss, heavy 808 bass beats, 00:06:09.699 --> 00:06:11.879 and really dark, almost horror movie inspired 00:06:11.879 --> 00:06:14.019 lyrics. But pulling from that sound actually 00:06:14.019 --> 00:06:16.319 got them into some hot water, right? It did, 00:06:16.439 --> 00:06:19.800 yeah. Using those specific stylistic markers 00:06:19.800 --> 00:06:22.480 and samples, drew some very mixed reactions from 00:06:22.480 --> 00:06:25.139 the originators. Former Three Six Mafia member 00:06:25.139 --> 00:06:27.720 Gangsta Boo was highly critical of them. Really? 00:06:27.899 --> 00:06:30.120 Yeah, she felt like they were co -opting a culture 00:06:30.120 --> 00:06:33.019 and a sound that just wasn't theirs. But on the 00:06:33.019 --> 00:06:36.240 flip side, founding member Juicy J fully embraced 00:06:36.240 --> 00:06:39.199 them. Oh, interesting. He actually mentored Suicide 00:06:39.199 --> 00:06:42.920 Boys and even had them produce his mixtapes featuring 00:06:42.920 --> 00:06:46.079 massive mainstream artists like AAP Rocky and 00:06:46.079 --> 00:06:49.160 Cardi B. That's a huge cosign. But, you know, 00:06:49.220 --> 00:06:51.339 the friction didn't stop with Memphis rap legends. 00:06:51.839 --> 00:06:54.379 The DIY method of just grabbing audio and throwing 00:06:54.379 --> 00:06:56.819 it online eventually collided head on with the 00:06:56.819 --> 00:06:59.319 corporate music industry. Oh, the Deadmau5 situation. 00:06:59.459 --> 00:07:01.800 Here's where it gets really interesting. In 2016, 00:07:02.160 --> 00:07:05.319 the massive EDM producer, Deadmau5, went after 00:07:05.319 --> 00:07:07.360 them for copyright infringement over their breakout 00:07:07.360 --> 00:07:10.279 track, Antarctica. Right. The song heavily sampled 00:07:10.279 --> 00:07:13.399 Deadmau5 and Cascade's track, I remember, and 00:07:13.399 --> 00:07:16.060 Deadmau5 publicly blasted them for using his 00:07:16.060 --> 00:07:18.449 intellectual property without consent. And this 00:07:18.449 --> 00:07:20.149 perfectly highlights the culture clash we're 00:07:20.149 --> 00:07:22.769 talking about. In the commercial music business, 00:07:23.009 --> 00:07:25.269 you have to pay upfront to use someone else's 00:07:25.269 --> 00:07:28.009 audio that's called clearing a sample. Yeah. 00:07:28.009 --> 00:07:30.649 Deadmau5 operates in that highly regulated commercial 00:07:30.649 --> 00:07:34.069 space. Suicide Boys were operating in this underground 00:07:34.069 --> 00:07:36.769 where sampling is just viewed as a fundamental 00:07:36.769 --> 00:07:38.829 part of the artistic process. It's just what 00:07:38.829 --> 00:07:42.350 you do in hip hop. Exactly. Because the law is 00:07:42.350 --> 00:07:45.120 the law. Suicide boys had to pull Antarctica 00:07:45.120 --> 00:07:48.420 off streaming platforms. It stayed gone for almost 00:07:48.420 --> 00:07:50.379 four years before they finally got the legal 00:07:50.379 --> 00:07:52.740 clearance to put it back up in 2021. But see, 00:07:52.879 --> 00:07:55.000 an uncleared sample is almost quaint compared 00:07:55.000 --> 00:07:57.360 to what the media was actually hyper focused 00:07:57.360 --> 00:08:00.019 on. The lyrics. The real controversy was their 00:08:00.019 --> 00:08:02.579 lyrical content and their imagery. We're talking 00:08:02.579 --> 00:08:05.839 explicit graphic discussions of suicidal ideation, 00:08:06.139 --> 00:08:09.519 severe depression, heavy drug use and blatant 00:08:09.519 --> 00:08:13.699 satanic imagery. Very abrasive stuff. Very. To 00:08:13.699 --> 00:08:16.620 a casual observer or a concerned parent, it looked 00:08:16.620 --> 00:08:19.660 incredibly dangerous. But I want to push back 00:08:19.660 --> 00:08:22.139 on the initial perception of the duo here, because 00:08:22.139 --> 00:08:24.220 Scrim actually addressed the satanic stuff in 00:08:24.220 --> 00:08:26.939 an interview, and he claimed it wasn't literal 00:08:26.939 --> 00:08:29.459 devil worship. He called it a metonym. Right. 00:08:29.519 --> 00:08:32.220 A metonym is a literary device where you use 00:08:32.220 --> 00:08:35.779 one concept to stand in for another related concept, 00:08:36.259 --> 00:08:38.220 like saying Wall Street. when you really mean 00:08:38.220 --> 00:08:41.039 the financial industry. Exactly. He explained 00:08:41.039 --> 00:08:44.000 that all the satanic imagery, the inverted crosses, 00:08:44.059 --> 00:08:47.659 the 666s, was just a metaphor for the negative 00:08:47.659 --> 00:08:50.159 manipulative effects of money and drugs. That 00:08:50.159 --> 00:08:52.399 makes a lot of sense. And it was also a blatant 00:08:52.399 --> 00:08:55.019 rebellion against organized religion. It was 00:08:55.019 --> 00:08:57.940 shock value, absolutely, but there was a specific 00:08:57.940 --> 00:09:00.000 philosophical point behind it. It wasn't just 00:09:00.000 --> 00:09:01.980 edge for the sake of edge. But understanding 00:09:01.980 --> 00:09:04.179 that distinction is really crucial to understanding 00:09:04.179 --> 00:09:07.259 why their fans are so intensely loyal. Because 00:09:07.259 --> 00:09:09.519 they got it. They got it. While the mainstream 00:09:09.519 --> 00:09:11.740 media looked at Suicide Boys and saw something 00:09:11.740 --> 00:09:14.179 offensive and destructive, their cult following 00:09:14.179 --> 00:09:16.379 experienced something completely different. To 00:09:16.379 --> 00:09:19.720 the fans, this music was therapy. Suicide Boys 00:09:19.720 --> 00:09:22.379 were mainstreaming conversations about deep depression, 00:09:22.799 --> 00:09:26.399 anxiety, and hopelessness within hip hop. A genre 00:09:26.399 --> 00:09:28.960 that historically hasn't always left a lot of 00:09:28.960 --> 00:09:31.399 room for that kind of profound vulnerability. 00:09:31.960 --> 00:09:34.059 They were speaking a language of pain that millions 00:09:34.059 --> 00:09:36.500 of kids felt but just didn't know how to articulate. 00:09:36.679 --> 00:09:39.580 So they build this massive cult following by 00:09:39.580 --> 00:09:42.399 giving a voice to hopelessness. But this brings 00:09:42.399 --> 00:09:45.519 us to a massive thematic collision. The success. 00:09:45.659 --> 00:09:48.879 Right. What happens to the art when that hopelessness 00:09:48.879 --> 00:09:51.279 starts generating millions of dollars? It's a 00:09:51.279 --> 00:09:55.299 huge problem. By 2018, their fame is skyrocketing. 00:09:55.480 --> 00:09:58.159 Their debut studio album, I Wanna Die in New 00:09:58.159 --> 00:10:00.559 Orleans, drops in September and hits the top 00:10:00.559 --> 00:10:03.320 10 on the Billboard 200. Huge numbers. They are 00:10:03.320 --> 00:10:05.379 getting platinum records. Eventually songs like 00:10:05.379 --> 00:10:07.399 And to Those I Love Thanks for Sticking Around 00:10:07.399 --> 00:10:10.120 would hit over half a billion streams. But the 00:10:10.120 --> 00:10:12.039 terrifying reality was that the suffering in 00:10:12.039 --> 00:10:15.500 their music wasn't an act. It was actively destroying 00:10:15.500 --> 00:10:17.940 them. Yes. The wealth didn't cure the underlying 00:10:17.940 --> 00:10:20.779 issues at all. It just funded them. Behind the 00:10:20.779 --> 00:10:22.779 scenes, the addiction that fueled so much of 00:10:22.779 --> 00:10:25.179 their music was spiraling completely out of control. 00:10:26.220 --> 00:10:29.120 Scrim made a horrifying admission in an interview 00:10:29.120 --> 00:10:32.600 later on. He revealed that the physical and psychological 00:10:32.600 --> 00:10:35.679 grip of his drug addiction was so severe, he 00:10:35.679 --> 00:10:38.299 would actually lure people from Craigslist. to 00:10:38.299 --> 00:10:41.320 rob them just to get money for drugs. Wait, really? 00:10:41.440 --> 00:10:44.139 At the height of their fame, he's robbing people 00:10:44.139 --> 00:10:46.720 off Craigslist? Just to feed the habit. That 00:10:46.720 --> 00:10:49.740 is so incredibly bleak. It shows you exactly 00:10:49.740 --> 00:10:52.879 how addiction actually rewires the brain. It 00:10:52.879 --> 00:10:56.320 overrides logic, success, and morality entirely. 00:10:56.720 --> 00:10:59.600 And it inevitably started fracturing the group. 00:10:59.679 --> 00:11:02.159 Yeah, things started falling apart. In late 2018, 00:11:02.379 --> 00:11:04.720 there were heavy rumors that Suicide Boys had 00:11:04.720 --> 00:11:07.039 officially broken up after some really ominous 00:11:07.039 --> 00:11:09.559 tweets. went out. Management had to step in and 00:11:09.559 --> 00:11:11.539 clarify that they hadn't broken up, but that 00:11:11.539 --> 00:11:13.779 Scrim was dealing with severe personal issues. 00:11:13.860 --> 00:11:16.159 They had reached the breaking point. Think about 00:11:16.159 --> 00:11:18.980 the irony here. The pact they raid in 2013 was 00:11:18.980 --> 00:11:21.379 to end their lives if they didn't succeed. Right. 00:11:21.620 --> 00:11:24.419 Now they had succeeded beyond their wildest dreams, 00:11:24.419 --> 00:11:27.080 but the drug addicted lifestyle they cultivated 00:11:27.080 --> 00:11:28.940 to cope with the pressure was going to kill them 00:11:28.940 --> 00:11:31.120 anyway. The deadline was still there. The deadline 00:11:31.120 --> 00:11:33.139 was still looming, just in a different form. 00:11:33.840 --> 00:11:38.919 Something had to give. So in February 2019, Scrim 00:11:38.919 --> 00:11:43.100 made the choice to live. He got sober, committing 00:11:43.100 --> 00:11:45.759 heavily to 12 -step programs and therapy. And 00:11:45.759 --> 00:11:47.720 Ruby's turning point followed shortly after. 00:11:48.019 --> 00:11:50.360 In October 2020, following an intervention by 00:11:50.360 --> 00:11:53.039 their management team, Ruby checked himself into 00:11:53.039 --> 00:11:56.169 a drug rehab facility. Wow. He's remained sober 00:11:56.169 --> 00:11:58.129 from hard drugs since then, though it's worth 00:11:58.129 --> 00:12:00.070 noting he's been open about the fact that he 00:12:00.070 --> 00:12:02.889 still smokes marijuana. But the core dynamic 00:12:02.889 --> 00:12:05.509 of their lives fundamentally shifted. It had 00:12:05.509 --> 00:12:07.549 to. Which begs the question, so what does this 00:12:07.549 --> 00:12:10.190 all mean? If your entire brand, your aesthetic, 00:12:10.490 --> 00:12:12.549 the literal name of your group, and your deep 00:12:12.549 --> 00:12:15.450 connection with millions of fans is built on 00:12:15.450 --> 00:12:18.230 active self -destruction, How do you continue 00:12:18.230 --> 00:12:20.169 making music when you decide you actually want 00:12:20.169 --> 00:12:22.389 to live? If we connect this to the bigger picture, 00:12:22.470 --> 00:12:25.049 it's an incredibly difficult pivot. They couldn't 00:12:25.049 --> 00:12:27.529 just put a new coat of paint on the Suicide Boys 00:12:27.529 --> 00:12:29.769 brand. Right. It wouldn't work. Getting sober 00:12:29.769 --> 00:12:32.070 meant they had to strip the house down to the 00:12:32.070 --> 00:12:35.330 studs and pour a completely new foundation, even 00:12:35.330 --> 00:12:38.509 if the fans only wanted the old house. It touches 00:12:38.509 --> 00:12:41.610 on that toxic myth of the tortured artist. That 00:12:41.610 --> 00:12:44.730 you need pain to make good art. Exactly. The 00:12:44.730 --> 00:12:47.179 idea that great art requires suffering. And if 00:12:47.179 --> 00:12:49.779 you heal your trauma, you lose your edge. It 00:12:49.779 --> 00:12:51.919 actually took a hiatus of over a year to figure 00:12:51.919 --> 00:12:54.360 this out. Yeah. When they came back in August 00:12:54.360 --> 00:12:57.179 2021 with the album Long Term Effects of Suffering, 00:12:57.659 --> 00:13:00.210 they were surviving. but openly acknowledging 00:13:00.210 --> 00:13:02.990 the scars. And the incredible thing is the fans 00:13:02.990 --> 00:13:04.889 stayed with them. They racked up more platinum 00:13:04.889 --> 00:13:07.250 plaques. They launched these massive Gray Day 00:13:07.250 --> 00:13:10.269 arena tours year after year, bringing out huge 00:13:10.269 --> 00:13:12.669 guests. It was a massive success. But nothing 00:13:12.669 --> 00:13:15.309 could have prepared the music world for what 00:13:15.309 --> 00:13:16.990 happened next. We're moving into the current 00:13:16.990 --> 00:13:20.350 era, 2024 through 2026, and the evolution is 00:13:20.350 --> 00:13:23.639 just shocking. It began subtly with their aesthetics, 00:13:24.019 --> 00:13:26.559 really. Back in 2017, Scrim actually covered 00:13:26.559 --> 00:13:29.000 up an inverted cross tattoo on his forehead with 00:13:29.000 --> 00:13:32.340 a pitchfork. OK, yeah. But by 2024, he was openly 00:13:32.340 --> 00:13:34.299 talking about covering up that pitchfork with 00:13:34.299 --> 00:13:36.580 a crucifix. OK, wait, let me play devil's advocate 00:13:36.580 --> 00:13:39.279 here, because... When artists make a drastic 00:13:39.279 --> 00:13:41.620 pivot like this, especially moving toward religion, 00:13:42.279 --> 00:13:44.240 a lot of people immediately assume it's a PR 00:13:44.240 --> 00:13:46.299 stunt, right? Oh, sure. Or a grift. Exactly. 00:13:46.720 --> 00:13:49.500 A grift to tap into a new demographic. Going 00:13:49.500 --> 00:13:52.299 from inverted crosses and anti -religious lyrics 00:13:52.299 --> 00:13:55.299 to wearing diamond cross necklaces and hats with 00:13:55.299 --> 00:13:58.659 crucifixes, that's a pro wrestling level reverse 00:13:58.659 --> 00:14:01.500 heel turn. It is a huge risk. A massive risk 00:14:01.500 --> 00:14:03.919 that could completely alienate their hardcore 00:14:03.919 --> 00:14:06.799 fan base. How do we know this isn't just a new 00:14:06.799 --> 00:14:09.669 persona? It's a fair question, and the full context 00:14:09.669 --> 00:14:12.049 came out during a marathon livestream, Scrim 00:14:12.049 --> 00:14:15.529 did in April 2025. And, you know, our goal here 00:14:15.529 --> 00:14:18.330 isn't to debate the theology or endorse a specific 00:14:18.330 --> 00:14:20.450 religion, but to look at the psychological mechanics 00:14:20.450 --> 00:14:22.789 of this shift. Right. What does it take for someone 00:14:22.789 --> 00:14:25.789 to entirely rewire their worldview? Yeah. Scrim 00:14:25.789 --> 00:14:27.929 explained that the process of addiction recovery, 00:14:28.389 --> 00:14:30.710 specifically the 12 steps which require acknowledging 00:14:30.710 --> 00:14:33.610 a higher power, opened a door for him. Initially, 00:14:33.669 --> 00:14:35.509 he just viewed the universe as his religion. 00:14:36.009 --> 00:14:39.129 But over a few years of sobriety, he started 00:14:39.129 --> 00:14:42.289 doing intense research. He talked about spending 00:14:42.289 --> 00:14:45.269 years listening to Christian apologetics. For 00:14:45.269 --> 00:14:47.830 anyone unfamiliar, apologetics is essentially 00:14:47.830 --> 00:14:50.149 the intellectual defense of religious faith. 00:14:50.889 --> 00:14:53.919 It's using logic historical evidence and philosophical 00:14:53.919 --> 00:14:57.460 arguments to defend belief rather than just blind 00:14:57.460 --> 00:15:00.580 faith. Exactly. He was listening to these complex 00:15:00.580 --> 00:15:03.620 theological debates, trying to figure out if 00:15:03.620 --> 00:15:05.840 the evidence for Christ was compelling enough 00:15:05.840 --> 00:15:08.399 for him to actually believe it. And his conclusion 00:15:08.399 --> 00:15:10.899 after years of this private research was, yes, 00:15:11.279 --> 00:15:13.610 he converted to Christianity. He even admitted 00:15:13.610 --> 00:15:15.990 on that stream that he was terrified of being 00:15:15.990 --> 00:15:19.149 judged by his own fans, which is wild to think 00:15:19.149 --> 00:15:21.850 about. It is. The same guy who used to rap about 00:15:21.850 --> 00:15:24.009 robbing people and worshipping the devil was 00:15:24.009 --> 00:15:25.570 scared of what his fans would think if he told 00:15:25.570 --> 00:15:27.929 them he found God. But he said he eventually 00:15:27.929 --> 00:15:30.590 saw enough miracles in his life and his recovery 00:15:30.590 --> 00:15:32.870 that he just wasn't embarrassed anymore. This 00:15:32.870 --> 00:15:34.850 raises an important point about the true nature 00:15:34.850 --> 00:15:37.370 of vulnerability. A lot of artists hide behind 00:15:37.370 --> 00:15:40.769 an edgy, dark facade because it's actually incredibly 00:15:40.769 --> 00:15:45.090 safe. It's an armor. Choosing authenticity, especially 00:15:45.090 --> 00:15:47.950 when that authenticity completely contradicts 00:15:47.950 --> 00:15:50.750 the persona that made you rich and famous, requires 00:15:50.750 --> 00:15:53.809 a profound level of bravery. And Ruby went through 00:15:53.809 --> 00:15:56.830 a transformation alongside him. Yeah, in a July 00:15:56.830 --> 00:16:00.629 2025 Billboard interview, Ruby is sitting there 00:16:00.629 --> 00:16:04.230 wearing a camo cap with Jesus written across 00:16:04.230 --> 00:16:07.269 the front in huge letters. Oh, wow. Yeah, complete 00:16:07.269 --> 00:16:09.509 with a cross and ichthys, symbols the Jesus fish 00:16:09.509 --> 00:16:12.129 all over it. In that interview, Scrim says he 00:16:12.169 --> 00:16:14.529 God put them in their current position to help 00:16:14.529 --> 00:16:17.690 people out. That's a huge shift. And Ruby completely 00:16:17.690 --> 00:16:19.750 agreed, saying, especially now more than ever, 00:16:20.129 --> 00:16:22.889 he even revealed that the two of them pray together 00:16:22.889 --> 00:16:25.649 before every single show. And they didn't just 00:16:25.649 --> 00:16:27.850 keep this as a behind -the -scenes personal change. 00:16:28.169 --> 00:16:30.750 They made it the forefront of their art. In August 00:16:30.750 --> 00:16:33.350 2025, they released the album, Thy Kingdom Come. 00:16:33.590 --> 00:16:36.110 I remember that drop. The album cover featured 00:16:36.110 --> 00:16:39.549 a wall of crucifixes and Orthodox Christian iconography. 00:16:39.759 --> 00:16:42.740 The promo videos they put on YouTube were these 00:16:42.740 --> 00:16:45.080 seven to eight minute mini documentaries focusing 00:16:45.080 --> 00:16:47.700 heavily on Christian imagery, church choirs, 00:16:47.820 --> 00:16:50.500 and even featuring local New Orleans converts 00:16:50.500 --> 00:16:53.500 giving their testimonies. And then came the absolute 00:16:53.500 --> 00:16:56.000 wildest flex for a group historically called 00:16:56.000 --> 00:16:59.539 Suicide Boys. On December 25th, Christmas Day 00:16:59.539 --> 00:17:03.340 2025, they surprise dropped an unannounced project 00:17:03.340 --> 00:17:06.480 called Thy Will Be Done. On Christmas. On Christmas 00:17:06.480 --> 00:17:09.119 Day. Just think about the incredible distance 00:17:09.130 --> 00:17:11.569 two have traveled. We started this deep dive 00:17:11.569 --> 00:17:14.210 with two desperate cousins trapped in dead -end 00:17:14.210 --> 00:17:16.829 jobs in New Orleans making a literal blood pack 00:17:16.829 --> 00:17:19.529 to blow their own heads off by age 30. And today 00:17:19.529 --> 00:17:22.549 in 2026 they are a clean sober chart -topping 00:17:22.549 --> 00:17:25.369 artists running a multi -million dollar independent 00:17:25.369 --> 00:17:28.470 empire whose stated mission is to use their massive 00:17:28.470 --> 00:17:31.769 platform to help save others. It's a total subversion 00:17:31.769 --> 00:17:33.970 of their origin story. If you've ever felt trapped 00:17:33.970 --> 00:17:35.990 by a reputation you built for yourself in high 00:17:35.990 --> 00:17:39.069 school or at an old job imagine trying to break 00:17:39.069 --> 00:17:40.990 out of a reputation built in front of millions 00:17:40.990 --> 00:17:43.549 of hardcore fans. It's nearly impossible. But 00:17:43.549 --> 00:17:46.170 they proved that reinvention is always possible. 00:17:46.490 --> 00:17:49.609 You are never fully locked into the persona you 00:17:49.609 --> 00:17:52.589 created during your darkest times. You can change 00:17:52.589 --> 00:17:55.339 your mind. You can change your life. They survived 00:17:55.339 --> 00:17:58.559 the no plan B mentality, not by stubbornly sticking 00:17:58.559 --> 00:18:00.240 to the script they wrote when they were suffering, 00:18:00.400 --> 00:18:03.140 but by being willing to tear that script up entirely 00:18:03.140 --> 00:18:06.099 when it no longer served them. Exactly. But as 00:18:06.099 --> 00:18:08.220 we wrap up, there's a final thought I want to 00:18:08.220 --> 00:18:10.059 leave you with, leaning back into that tension 00:18:10.059 --> 00:18:13.299 we talked about earlier. We often think of authenticity 00:18:13.299 --> 00:18:16.000 as staying true to your roots. Right. But when 00:18:16.000 --> 00:18:18.640 an artist builds a massive, wildly successful 00:18:18.640 --> 00:18:21.819 brand entirely out of their own trauma, their 00:18:21.819 --> 00:18:25.829 addiction and their pain, Do we, the audience, 00:18:26.130 --> 00:18:29.589 truly want them to heal? Or are we, as consumers, 00:18:30.009 --> 00:18:32.349 just commodifying their suffering? That is the 00:18:32.349 --> 00:18:34.470 big question. Because Suicide Boys proved that 00:18:34.470 --> 00:18:37.130 true authenticity sometimes requires betraying 00:18:37.130 --> 00:18:39.309 your roots, alienating your fans, and killing 00:18:39.309 --> 00:18:42.369 your past self to save your actual life. It's 00:18:42.369 --> 00:18:45.430 a complex, heavy topic, but an incredibly important 00:18:45.430 --> 00:18:47.470 one. Thank you for taking this journey with us 00:18:47.470 --> 00:18:49.369 today. Thanks for joining the Deep Dive. We'll 00:18:49.369 --> 00:18:50.170 catch you on the next one.