WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:03.960 So imagine building a multimillion dollar global 00:00:03.960 --> 00:00:06.240 empire, right? But you build it on a literal 00:00:06.240 --> 00:00:08.759 suicide pact. Right. It sounds like a movie plot. 00:00:09.039 --> 00:00:12.220 It really does. You claw your way out of the 00:00:12.220 --> 00:00:15.279 absolute darkest corners of addiction. You cultivate 00:00:15.279 --> 00:00:18.019 this massive, intensely loyal cult following 00:00:18.019 --> 00:00:21.980 based on a deeply abrasive, totally anti -establishment 00:00:21.980 --> 00:00:23.800 aesthetic. And then at the very height of your 00:00:23.800 --> 00:00:26.140 power, you just completely tear that image down. 00:00:26.339 --> 00:00:28.719 Exactly. You tear it down to publicly preach 00:00:28.719 --> 00:00:32.640 the gospel. It's wild. It is. Welcome to today's 00:00:32.640 --> 00:00:35.600 Deep Dive, everyone. We are pulling from a really 00:00:35.600 --> 00:00:38.859 comprehensive Wikipedia documentation of the 00:00:38.859 --> 00:00:42.200 underground hip hop duo Suicide Boys. We're going 00:00:42.200 --> 00:00:44.960 to chart a course through their history, their 00:00:44.960 --> 00:00:47.259 sprawling discography, and honestly, their really 00:00:47.259 --> 00:00:49.560 intense personal lives. Yeah. And we really need 00:00:49.560 --> 00:00:51.740 to set the stakes for this right from the opening 00:00:51.740 --> 00:00:54.140 minute. Because when you look at the raw data 00:00:54.140 --> 00:00:56.780 of their careers, you know, this goes way beyond 00:00:56.780 --> 00:00:59.740 a typical music industry biography. This is a 00:00:59.740 --> 00:01:02.960 profound case. study in the mechanics of extreme, 00:01:02.960 --> 00:01:06.200 like, do or die motivation. It's a look at the 00:01:06.200 --> 00:01:08.780 deeply destructive psychological traps of sudden 00:01:08.780 --> 00:01:12.040 fame. And ultimately, it's a story about the 00:01:12.040 --> 00:01:15.359 radical, almost dangerous pursuit of personal 00:01:15.359 --> 00:01:17.519 truth. Yeah. And if you are listening to this 00:01:17.519 --> 00:01:20.480 right now and thinking, I don't listen to abrasive 00:01:20.480 --> 00:01:22.439 underground rap, what could this possibly have 00:01:22.439 --> 00:01:25.030 to do with me? Just stick around. Yeah, definitely 00:01:25.030 --> 00:01:27.530 stay with us. Because to understand how they 00:01:27.530 --> 00:01:30.349 built a global hip -hop empire, we actually have 00:01:30.349 --> 00:01:32.870 to look at the incredibly mundane, dead -end 00:01:32.870 --> 00:01:35.170 reality they were trying to escape. Right. A 00:01:35.170 --> 00:01:37.609 reality that, honestly, a lot of people can probably 00:01:37.609 --> 00:01:40.069 relate to. To understand why millions of people 00:01:40.069 --> 00:01:42.310 connected with their extreme messaging, we have 00:01:42.310 --> 00:01:44.689 to travel back to 2013 to the suburbs of New 00:01:44.689 --> 00:01:47.209 Orleans. Exactly. Yeah. So the foundation of 00:01:47.209 --> 00:01:50.129 this duo is two first cousins. You've got Scott 00:01:50.129 --> 00:01:52.310 Arseneau, Jr., who produces and raps under the 00:01:52.310 --> 00:01:55.349 name Scrim. and Aristos Petrou, known as Ruby 00:01:55.349 --> 00:01:58.250 de Cherry. Right, Scrim and Ruby. Yeah. And what 00:01:58.250 --> 00:02:01.329 is really striking about their origins is how 00:02:01.329 --> 00:02:04.069 completely at odds their backgrounds are with 00:02:04.069 --> 00:02:06.650 that terrifying edgy image they would eventually 00:02:06.650 --> 00:02:09.129 become famous for. Oh, it's night and day. It 00:02:09.129 --> 00:02:12.169 is. I mean, Scrim was a DJ who essentially bought 00:02:12.169 --> 00:02:15.250 his first laptop with drug money. He went to 00:02:15.250 --> 00:02:18.189 Delgado Community College, DJ'd local parties, 00:02:18.310 --> 00:02:22.240 and spent three long years working retail. Doing 00:02:22.240 --> 00:02:24.919 what exactly? Selling used furniture. Selling 00:02:24.919 --> 00:02:27.340 used furniture. Wow. And he didn't even leave 00:02:27.340 --> 00:02:30.150 that furniture job to pursue music, right? He 00:02:30.150 --> 00:02:31.990 was fired. Yeah, he was fired because he got 00:02:31.990 --> 00:02:34.050 hand tattoos. Right. And we have to remember, 00:02:34.169 --> 00:02:36.710 in the early 2010s, getting your hands tattooed 00:02:36.710 --> 00:02:39.349 wasn't just like a trendy aesthetic choice. No, 00:02:39.389 --> 00:02:42.310 no, no. It was a physical permanent resignation 00:02:42.310 --> 00:02:44.710 letter from polite corporate society. It was 00:02:44.710 --> 00:02:47.949 this visceral marker of alienation that basically 00:02:47.949 --> 00:02:49.629 guaranteed you were never going to work in a 00:02:49.629 --> 00:02:51.689 traditional office. Absolutely. It was burning 00:02:51.689 --> 00:02:53.710 a bridge. Yeah. And then you look at his cousin, 00:02:53.830 --> 00:02:57.219 Ruby. His father, Pavlos, was a Greek Cypriot 00:02:57.219 --> 00:02:59.099 immigrant who actually arrived in the States 00:02:59.099 --> 00:03:01.439 on an athletic scholarship and became a soccer 00:03:01.439 --> 00:03:03.860 coach. Oh wow, I didn't know about the soccer 00:03:03.860 --> 00:03:07.560 scholarship. Yeah, so Ruby had a fairly... structured 00:03:07.560 --> 00:03:09.860 early life. He played the violin when he was 00:03:09.860 --> 00:03:12.719 seven, picked up the drums at 10, and eventually 00:03:12.719 --> 00:03:15.280 started playing in a local punk band called the 00:03:15.280 --> 00:03:18.560 Vapo Rats. Vapo Rats, great name. It really is. 00:03:19.120 --> 00:03:22.360 But right up until 2015, which is well into the 00:03:22.360 --> 00:03:25.340 lifespan of the Suicide Boys project, Ruby was 00:03:25.340 --> 00:03:27.879 still making his living working as a waiter at 00:03:27.879 --> 00:03:29.979 his father's restaurant. So they were basically 00:03:29.979 --> 00:03:33.800 two guys in their mid -20s. working dead -end 00:03:33.800 --> 00:03:36.819 jobs, dabbling in solo music projects that were 00:03:36.819 --> 00:03:39.319 going absolutely nowhere. They were nowhere fast. 00:03:39.520 --> 00:03:41.960 Right. And they were just suffocating under a 00:03:41.960 --> 00:03:44.900 profound dissatisfaction with the direction of 00:03:44.900 --> 00:03:47.680 their lives. I mean, Ruby was incredibly disillusioned 00:03:47.680 --> 00:03:49.659 with his punk band because his bandmates were 00:03:49.659 --> 00:03:51.599 just too apathetic. Yeah, they didn't have the 00:03:51.599 --> 00:03:54.919 drive he had. Exactly. And that shared boiling 00:03:54.919 --> 00:03:57.280 frustration between the two cousins became the 00:03:57.280 --> 00:03:59.280 catalyst for everything that followed. OK, let's 00:03:59.280 --> 00:04:01.120 unpack this because this is where it gets extreme. 00:04:01.419 --> 00:04:03.719 Very extreme. They channeled that frustration 00:04:03.719 --> 00:04:06.759 into a terrifyingly absolute commitment. They 00:04:06.759 --> 00:04:09.159 formed Suicide Boys under a literal blood pact. 00:04:09.539 --> 00:04:12.639 Yeah. A literal pact. The terms were simple, 00:04:12.659 --> 00:04:15.159 right? If their music career didn't grant them 00:04:15.159 --> 00:04:17.439 a viable way out of their current lives by the 00:04:17.439 --> 00:04:19.819 time they turned 30 years old, they would both 00:04:19.819 --> 00:04:22.899 commit suicide. Yeah. Scrim later described the 00:04:22.899 --> 00:04:25.740 moment in an interview as literally cutting their 00:04:25.740 --> 00:04:28.879 hands, bleeding, and making a pact that there 00:04:28.879 --> 00:04:32.509 was absolutely no Plan B. No plan B, it's the 00:04:32.509 --> 00:04:35.970 ultimate burning the boat scenario. We usually 00:04:35.970 --> 00:04:38.810 think of motivation as moving toward a reward, 00:04:39.269 --> 00:04:41.350 you know? You want the promotion, you want the 00:04:41.350 --> 00:04:43.930 corner office, so you work hard. Right, positive 00:04:43.930 --> 00:04:46.730 reinforcement. But they completely inverted that 00:04:46.730 --> 00:04:49.250 psychological mechanism. They metaphorically 00:04:49.250 --> 00:04:51.750 put a gun to their own heads and said, succeed 00:04:51.750 --> 00:04:55.430 or die. It is the most extreme possible version 00:04:55.430 --> 00:04:57.810 of stripping away your own safety net. It really 00:04:57.810 --> 00:04:59.689 is. Because if you don't have a backup plan to 00:04:59.689 --> 00:05:02.009 fall back on, you have no choice but to push 00:05:02.009 --> 00:05:04.490 forward. And from a psychological and frankly 00:05:04.490 --> 00:05:07.189 a branding perspective, that stake setting is 00:05:07.189 --> 00:05:09.430 exactly why their music resonated so deeply. 00:05:09.509 --> 00:05:12.410 Yeah. This wasn't some dark edgy marketing gimmick 00:05:12.410 --> 00:05:14.689 cooked up by executives in a boardroom. Right, 00:05:14.750 --> 00:05:17.889 it wasn't manufactured. Exactly. The despair 00:05:17.889 --> 00:05:21.439 was a genuine reflection of their reality. And 00:05:21.439 --> 00:05:23.459 listeners, especially young listeners dealing 00:05:23.459 --> 00:05:26.779 with their own alienation, possess this incredible 00:05:26.779 --> 00:05:30.319 radar for inauthenticity. Oh, teenagers can smell 00:05:30.319 --> 00:05:33.139 fake angst from a mile away. They absolutely 00:05:33.139 --> 00:05:36.699 can. So the raw life or death foundation of Suicide 00:05:36.699 --> 00:05:39.899 Boys allowed them to forge this deeply authentic 00:05:39.899 --> 00:05:42.639 connection. The audience could feel that the 00:05:42.639 --> 00:05:45.100 desperation was real because the creators had 00:05:45.100 --> 00:05:47.060 literally bet their lives on it. And because 00:05:47.060 --> 00:05:50.790 they had no plan B, Their creative output wasn't 00:05:50.790 --> 00:05:53.990 just prolific, it was frantic. Oh, frantic is 00:05:53.990 --> 00:05:56.029 the perfect word. To explain how they broke through 00:05:56.029 --> 00:05:58.290 the noise of the internet, you can almost compare 00:05:58.290 --> 00:06:00.850 their early release strategy to a brute force 00:06:00.850 --> 00:06:02.910 cyber attack on the music industry's algorithm. 00:06:02.949 --> 00:06:04.829 That's a great way to put it. Right. Because 00:06:04.829 --> 00:06:07.310 starting in 2014, they didn't just like drop 00:06:07.310 --> 00:06:09.410 an EP and wait to see how it performed. They 00:06:09.410 --> 00:06:11.850 launched the Kill Yourself EP series and they 00:06:11.850 --> 00:06:14.410 systematically released 20 different iterations 00:06:14.410 --> 00:06:16.850 of it. Parts 1 through 20. Parts 1 through 20. 00:06:17.129 --> 00:06:20.500 That volume is staggering. I mean, alongside 00:06:20.500 --> 00:06:23.339 mixtapes and standalone releases, they were just 00:06:23.339 --> 00:06:26.759 flooding the underground scene. In 2015 alone, 00:06:27.180 --> 00:06:29.579 they released major projects like High Tide and 00:06:29.579 --> 00:06:31.899 The Snake's Nest, and My Liver Will Handle What 00:06:31.899 --> 00:06:34.579 My Heart Can't. Those titles alone are so evocative. 00:06:34.680 --> 00:06:36.800 They really paint a picture. But the real tipping 00:06:36.800 --> 00:06:39.839 point was a collaborative EP called Ooth Eyed 00:06:39.839 --> 00:06:42.399 Weaside. Oh, yeah, with Pouya. Right, working 00:06:42.399 --> 00:06:44.699 alongside an already -established South Florida 00:06:44.699 --> 00:06:47.930 rapper named Pouya. That project acted as this 00:06:47.930 --> 00:06:51.029 massive funnel, drawing a huge new audience into 00:06:51.029 --> 00:06:53.209 the dense musical universe they had been rapidly 00:06:53.209 --> 00:06:55.009 building. We should probably break down what 00:06:55.009 --> 00:06:57.209 that musical universe actually sounded like because 00:06:57.209 --> 00:06:59.649 it was entirely self -produced by Scrim, right? 00:06:59.790 --> 00:07:02.889 Under the pseudonym Bud Dwyer. Yes. but Dwyer. 00:07:03.129 --> 00:07:05.569 And if you have never heard a Suicide Boys track, 00:07:05.829 --> 00:07:08.449 picture a collision of several distinct underground 00:07:08.449 --> 00:07:11.509 genres. You have cloud rap, which features these 00:07:11.509 --> 00:07:14.290 hazy, almost dreamlike, echoing beats that make 00:07:14.290 --> 00:07:16.670 you feel like you're floating. And then you layer 00:07:16.670 --> 00:07:19.310 that over, trap music, think heavy, rattling 00:07:19.310 --> 00:07:22.930 808 sub bass and rapid fire hi -hats. Then you 00:07:22.930 --> 00:07:25.449 inject the vocal delivery of punk rap, which 00:07:25.449 --> 00:07:29.160 is Aggressive, raw, heavily distorted. And then 00:07:29.160 --> 00:07:32.000 the lyrics. Right, the lyrics draw heavily from 00:07:32.000 --> 00:07:35.279 emo rap, focusing on deep introspection, emotional 00:07:35.279 --> 00:07:37.759 vulnerability, and depression. It was a wildly 00:07:37.759 --> 00:07:40.660 innovative alchemy of sounds, and it was heavily 00:07:40.660 --> 00:07:42.860 influenced by the regional aesthetic of Memphis 00:07:42.860 --> 00:07:46.600 rap, specifically 3 6 Mafia. Right. They actually 00:07:46.600 --> 00:07:49.220 sampled 3 6 Mafia's early tapes extensively. 00:07:49.439 --> 00:07:52.240 And while that practice drew some mixed reactions 00:07:52.240 --> 00:07:55.240 from former members like Gangsta Boo. Yeah, not 00:07:55.240 --> 00:07:57.959 everyone loved it. No, but the founding member 00:07:57.959 --> 00:08:00.899 Juicy J recognized their genius. He embraced 00:08:00.899 --> 00:08:03.439 them, mentored them, and even enlisted them to 00:08:03.439 --> 00:08:05.980 produce his own mixtapes. That's a huge cosign. 00:08:06.259 --> 00:08:08.959 Massive, which meant these two underground artists 00:08:08.959 --> 00:08:11.699 were suddenly producing tracks for massive mainstream 00:08:11.699 --> 00:08:14.660 names like Ace A Rocky and Cardi B. Okay, but 00:08:14.660 --> 00:08:16.959 wait, I have to stop and challenge the core of 00:08:16.959 --> 00:08:18.959 their aesthetic here. Sure, let's do it. Because 00:08:18.959 --> 00:08:22.100 alongside that musical innovation came an incredibly 00:08:22.100 --> 00:08:24.300 controversial, abrasive image. I mean, they were 00:08:24.300 --> 00:08:27.379 leaning heavily into satanic imagery and aggressively 00:08:27.379 --> 00:08:31.019 offensive, violent lyrics. Yes. If you have millions 00:08:31.019 --> 00:08:33.860 of depressed, alienated kids listening to you 00:08:33.860 --> 00:08:36.759 and you are constantly feeding them pentagrams 00:08:36.759 --> 00:08:40.179 and lyrics about suicidal ideation, I mean, isn't 00:08:40.179 --> 00:08:42.740 that just glorifying darkness for a paycheck? 00:08:43.220 --> 00:08:45.480 How does that actually help a listener who is 00:08:45.480 --> 00:08:48.070 struggling? That is a vital question. and it's 00:08:48.070 --> 00:08:50.250 one the artists themselves had to address frequently. 00:08:50.769 --> 00:08:52.970 What's fascinating here is that Scrim explicitly 00:08:52.970 --> 00:08:55.470 stated in interviews that the satanic imagery 00:08:55.470 --> 00:08:58.370 was never literal devil worship. Oh, really? 00:08:58.529 --> 00:09:00.970 Yeah. He described it as a metonym. A metonym. 00:09:01.250 --> 00:09:04.370 Right. A metonym is a figure of speech or a symbol 00:09:04.370 --> 00:09:07.009 where a thing is called not by its own name, 00:09:07.370 --> 00:09:09.549 but by the name of something intimately associated 00:09:09.549 --> 00:09:12.570 with it. For suicide boys, satanic symbols were 00:09:12.570 --> 00:09:14.870 a metonym representing their deep disgust with 00:09:14.870 --> 00:09:17.789 organized religion and a metaphor for the manipulative 00:09:17.789 --> 00:09:19.830 destructive effects of money and hard drugs. 00:09:20.009 --> 00:09:22.129 Okay, I see. They were using the most extreme 00:09:22.129 --> 00:09:24.990 visual symbols available to communicate extreme 00:09:24.990 --> 00:09:27.330 internal states. But does the average 15 -year 00:09:27.330 --> 00:09:29.870 -old scrolling SoundCloud understand what a metonym 00:09:29.870 --> 00:09:33.409 is? Or do they just see the darkness and internalize 00:09:33.409 --> 00:09:36.019 it? That is the risk. That is definitely the 00:09:36.019 --> 00:09:38.940 risk of utilizing shock value. However, you have 00:09:38.940 --> 00:09:40.940 to look at the function the music serve for the 00:09:40.940 --> 00:09:43.820 audience. Scrimm frequently referred to their 00:09:43.820 --> 00:09:47.879 recording process as therapy. Therapy? Interesting. 00:09:48.019 --> 00:09:50.720 Yeah. Because when a listener is trapped in a 00:09:50.720 --> 00:09:53.720 dark psychological space, hearing someone else 00:09:53.720 --> 00:09:56.559 speak their most taboo, horrifying thoughts out 00:09:56.559 --> 00:09:58.899 loud isn't necessarily a glorification of those 00:09:58.899 --> 00:10:01.679 thoughts. For millions of fans, it functioned 00:10:01.679 --> 00:10:04.759 as a pressure release valve. Oh, like it externalizes 00:10:04.759 --> 00:10:07.139 the internal pain. Exactly. It's a form of extreme 00:10:07.139 --> 00:10:10.070 commiseration. When they named incredibly bleak 00:10:10.070 --> 00:10:12.330 songs after mundane local New Orleans streets 00:10:12.330 --> 00:10:14.850 like Audubon or Tulane, they were telling the 00:10:14.850 --> 00:10:17.210 global audience, we are sitting in the exact 00:10:17.210 --> 00:10:19.929 same darkness you are. The paradox there is just 00:10:19.929 --> 00:10:22.409 devastating though. The therapy of the music 00:10:22.409 --> 00:10:24.809 was acting as a life raft for their fans, but 00:10:24.809 --> 00:10:27.129 behind the scenes the reality of the creators 00:10:27.129 --> 00:10:29.350 lives was completely collapsing. It was falling 00:10:29.350 --> 00:10:32.570 apart. By 2018, they made the transition from 00:10:32.570 --> 00:10:35.629 underground phenomenon to mainstream success. 00:10:35.870 --> 00:10:39.190 Their debut studio album, I Want to Die in New 00:10:39.190 --> 00:10:41.929 Orleans, dropped and immediately hit the top 00:10:41.929 --> 00:10:45.730 10 on the Billboard 200. Huge moment. Huge. They 00:10:45.730 --> 00:10:49.750 launched massive nationwide gray day tours, packing 00:10:49.750 --> 00:10:52.710 out venues with artists like Denzel Curry. They 00:10:52.710 --> 00:10:54.669 achieved the exact thing that was supposed to 00:10:54.669 --> 00:10:57.110 save them from their 30th birthday suicide pact. 00:10:57.350 --> 00:10:59.870 And yet that very success almost killed them. 00:11:00.029 --> 00:11:02.580 Right. Here's where it gets really interesting. 00:11:02.799 --> 00:11:04.960 The transition from the underground to the mainstream 00:11:04.960 --> 00:11:07.399 is rarely smooth because the infrastructures 00:11:07.399 --> 00:11:09.539 are entirely different. In the underground, you 00:11:09.539 --> 00:11:11.360 operate like a pirate ship, right? You can grab 00:11:11.360 --> 00:11:13.820 a sample, wrap over it, and release it directly 00:11:13.820 --> 00:11:15.759 to your fans. Yeah, nobody's really policing 00:11:15.759 --> 00:11:18.759 it. But in the mainstream, you were dealing with 00:11:18.759 --> 00:11:21.799 corporate fleets and lawyers. In 2016, they released 00:11:21.799 --> 00:11:25.220 a massive track called Antarctica that sampled 00:11:25.220 --> 00:11:28.360 a song by the EDM producer, Deadmau5. Uh -oh. 00:11:28.440 --> 00:11:32.639 Yeah. Deadmau5 publicly accused them of copyright 00:11:32.639 --> 00:11:35.240 infringement for publicizing his intellectual 00:11:35.240 --> 00:11:37.820 property without consent. And that legal friction 00:11:37.820 --> 00:11:40.860 resulted in Antarctica, which is arguably one 00:11:40.860 --> 00:11:43.840 of their most emotionally resonant songs, being 00:11:43.840 --> 00:11:46.679 forcefully pulled offline for nearly four years 00:11:46.679 --> 00:11:49.299 before they finally cleared the sample in 2021. 00:11:49.659 --> 00:11:51.500 Four years is a lifetime in the music industry. 00:11:51.600 --> 00:11:54.200 It really is. But dealing with copyright lawyers 00:11:54.200 --> 00:11:56.659 was absolutely nothing compared to the personal 00:11:56.659 --> 00:11:59.370 toll the fame was taking. Think about a time 00:11:59.370 --> 00:12:01.649 you thought achieving a goal like getting a promotion, 00:12:02.009 --> 00:12:04.929 buying a house, moving to a new city would magically 00:12:04.929 --> 00:12:07.210 fix your baseline stress or unhappiness only 00:12:07.210 --> 00:12:09.490 to find out it just multiplied it. Yeah, fame 00:12:09.490 --> 00:12:12.669 acts as a massive amplifier, not a cure. Precisely. 00:12:12.830 --> 00:12:15.169 The money they were making didn't solve the deep 00:12:15.169 --> 00:12:17.049 depression they had been rapping about for five 00:12:17.049 --> 00:12:19.830 years. It simply provided infinite capital to 00:12:19.830 --> 00:12:21.970 fund the addictions they were using to numb that 00:12:21.970 --> 00:12:26.230 depression. Exactly. And late in 2018, rumors 00:12:26.230 --> 00:12:28.889 actually started swirling that Suicide Boys had 00:12:28.889 --> 00:12:31.669 broken up after a series of highly ominous tweets. 00:12:31.750 --> 00:12:34.269 I remember that. The fans were panicking. They 00:12:34.269 --> 00:12:36.230 eventually clarified that the group was still 00:12:36.230 --> 00:12:38.470 together, but they were dealing with severe personal 00:12:38.470 --> 00:12:41.379 crises, specifically surrounding Scrim. Both 00:12:41.379 --> 00:12:43.740 Cousers were struggling immensely, but Scrim's 00:12:43.740 --> 00:12:46.940 addiction to hard drugs brought him to a terrifying 00:12:46.940 --> 00:12:49.740 rock bottom. He admitted in an interview that 00:12:49.740 --> 00:12:52.480 at one point his addiction were so all -consuming 00:12:52.480 --> 00:12:54.879 that he was literally luring people on Craigslist 00:12:54.879 --> 00:12:58.559 just to rob them, solely to feed his habit. Unbelievable. 00:12:58.620 --> 00:13:00.500 They had all the money, all the fame, billboard 00:13:00.500 --> 00:13:02.500 charting albums, and he is robbing strangers 00:13:02.500 --> 00:13:04.899 on the internet just to survive the day. You 00:13:04.899 --> 00:13:07.460 cannot out -achieve your internal demons. You 00:13:07.460 --> 00:13:09.860 really can't. The very pain that built their 00:13:09.860 --> 00:13:12.519 empire is now systematically dismantling it. 00:13:12.639 --> 00:13:14.399 Which brings us to the radical pivot of their 00:13:14.399 --> 00:13:16.860 story. Yes, the pivot. If the first half of their 00:13:16.860 --> 00:13:19.179 career was defined by chasing a destructive escape, 00:13:19.500 --> 00:13:21.259 the second half, running right up to where we 00:13:21.259 --> 00:13:25.080 sit today in 2026, is defined by a shocking total 00:13:25.080 --> 00:13:28.779 paradigm shift. A complete 180. Yeah. It began 00:13:28.779 --> 00:13:32.580 with the basic need to survive. In February 2019, 00:13:33.080 --> 00:13:35.639 Scrim, fully committed to getting sober, utilizing 00:13:35.639 --> 00:13:38.299 12 -step programs and intensive therapy. Go for 00:13:38.299 --> 00:13:41.009 him. And the following year, in October 2020, 00:13:41.549 --> 00:13:43.570 after an intervention organized by their management, 00:13:44.049 --> 00:13:47.350 Ruby checked himself into a rehab facility. Today, 00:13:47.629 --> 00:13:49.710 Ruby remains sober aside from smoking marijuana. 00:13:49.899 --> 00:13:52.759 That period of intense personal healing obviously 00:13:52.759 --> 00:13:54.899 required a hiatus, but when they returned to 00:13:54.899 --> 00:13:57.419 the studio, their output proved that sobriety 00:13:57.419 --> 00:13:59.580 didn't kill their creative drive. Not at all. 00:13:59.820 --> 00:14:02.059 They released a string of highly successful projects 00:14:02.059 --> 00:14:04.360 that maintained their massive commercial momentum. 00:14:04.720 --> 00:14:06.879 You Had Long Term Effects of Suffering in 2021 00:14:06.879 --> 00:14:09.639 and Sing Me a Lullaby, My Sweet Temptation in 00:14:09.639 --> 00:14:12.559 2022. Yeah, both huge albums. They even dropped 00:14:12.559 --> 00:14:15.799 the Yin Yang tapes in 2023, which was a fascinating 00:14:15.799 --> 00:14:18.580 creative exercise where they fully adopted a 00:14:18.580 --> 00:14:22.200 lo -fi Memphis vocal style. It proved they could 00:14:22.200 --> 00:14:24.059 still experiment and push boundaries without 00:14:24.059 --> 00:14:26.860 the drugs. And by 2024, they dropped New World 00:14:26.860 --> 00:14:28.840 Depression, further solidifying their reign. 00:14:29.279 --> 00:14:32.080 But the most shocking twist of their entire career, 00:14:32.759 --> 00:14:35.259 the moment that truly tested the loyalty of their 00:14:35.259 --> 00:14:38.779 fan base, arrived last year in 2025. This is 00:14:38.779 --> 00:14:41.360 the part that still blows my mind. Yeah. They 00:14:41.360 --> 00:14:43.860 released an album titled, Thy Kingdom Come in 00:14:43.860 --> 00:14:46.580 August, followed by a surprise Christmas release 00:14:46.580 --> 00:14:50.269 called, Thy Will Be Done. The duo completely 00:14:50.269 --> 00:14:53.409 abandoned their anti -religious stance. The visual 00:14:53.409 --> 00:14:56.330 and thematic transformation was staggering. Scrim 00:14:56.330 --> 00:14:58.830 physically covered up the iconic pitchfork tattoo 00:14:58.830 --> 00:15:01.590 on his forehead. He started wearing a diamond 00:15:01.590 --> 00:15:04.480 cross. During a livestream in April of 2025, 00:15:04.779 --> 00:15:07.159 he publicly revealed his conversion to Christianity. 00:15:07.360 --> 00:15:09.519 Just put it all out there. Yeah. He explained 00:15:09.519 --> 00:15:11.700 that surviving his addiction led him to a genuine 00:15:11.700 --> 00:15:13.720 belief in a higher power. And he didn't just, 00:15:13.720 --> 00:15:16.379 like, stumble into it emotionally. He spent years 00:15:16.379 --> 00:15:19.200 quietly listening to debates and studying apologetics. 00:15:19.460 --> 00:15:21.759 Which is the intellectual, historical, and philosophical 00:15:21.759 --> 00:15:24.240 defense of religious doctrines. Right. He treated 00:15:24.240 --> 00:15:26.860 it like a debate case. He analyzed the evidence 00:15:26.860 --> 00:15:29.799 for Christ and decided he believed it. He admitted 00:15:29.799 --> 00:15:32.059 he was terrified of being judged by his heavily 00:15:32.059 --> 00:15:34.940 anti -establishment fan base, but he stated he 00:15:34.940 --> 00:15:37.500 had seen enough miracles in his own recovery 00:15:37.500 --> 00:15:39.940 to feel no embarrassment. And it wasn't just 00:15:39.940 --> 00:15:42.340 Grimm operating on an island either. In a July 00:15:42.340 --> 00:15:45.600 2025 Billboard interview, Ruby was sporting a 00:15:45.600 --> 00:15:47.980 camel hat with Jesus written across the front, 00:15:48.440 --> 00:15:50.840 covered in ichthys symbols. The Jesus fish, right? 00:15:51.019 --> 00:15:53.659 Exactly. The classic Jesus fish symbol, which 00:15:53.659 --> 00:15:56.600 originated as a secret code used by persecuted 00:15:56.600 --> 00:15:59.840 early Christians. They openly shared that they 00:15:59.840 --> 00:16:02.820 now pray together before every single show. Scrim 00:16:02.820 --> 00:16:04.700 stated he firmly believes God put them in their 00:16:04.700 --> 00:16:07.399 position of immense influence to save a hundred 00:16:07.399 --> 00:16:09.919 thousand souls. The marketing shifted just as 00:16:09.919 --> 00:16:12.159 radically as the music. The album Art for Thy 00:16:12.159 --> 00:16:14.919 Kingdom Come featured walls of crucifixes and 00:16:14.919 --> 00:16:17.820 deep orthodox Christian iconography. Yeah, very 00:16:17.820 --> 00:16:20.669 striking visuals. They traded the dark glitchy 00:16:20.669 --> 00:16:23.429 music videos for a series of documentary style 00:16:23.429 --> 00:16:26.490 promos on YouTube that actually featured local 00:16:26.490 --> 00:16:30.090 church choirs and powerful real life testimonies 00:16:30.090 --> 00:16:32.690 from people in New Orleans. It is a complete 00:16:32.690 --> 00:16:35.230 and total inversion of their original aesthetic. 00:16:35.490 --> 00:16:38.289 Well, look at the broader landscape of the underground 00:16:38.289 --> 00:16:40.909 hip hop scene they operate in. It is a world 00:16:40.909 --> 00:16:44.870 built entirely. on being as dark, gritty, and 00:16:44.870 --> 00:16:46.970 anti -authoritarian as possible. Right. That's 00:16:46.970 --> 00:16:50.090 the whole brand. In that specific context, finding 00:16:50.090 --> 00:16:52.769 religion and getting completely sober is actually 00:16:52.769 --> 00:16:56.110 the ultimate most dangerous punk rock rebellion. 00:16:56.250 --> 00:16:58.529 So what does this all mean? Like, I love that 00:16:58.529 --> 00:17:01.409 analogy. In a scene built on darkness, finding 00:17:01.409 --> 00:17:03.570 the light is the real rebellion. They essentially 00:17:03.570 --> 00:17:05.789 rebelled against their own rebellion. I love 00:17:05.789 --> 00:17:07.710 that phrasing. And if we connect this to the 00:17:07.710 --> 00:17:09.609 bigger picture, if we step back and view this 00:17:09.609 --> 00:17:13.309 entire timeline from 2013 to 2020, we see that 00:17:13.309 --> 00:17:15.190 their core mission actually never changed. How 00:17:15.190 --> 00:17:17.589 so? Back in 2014, their goal was to connect with 00:17:17.589 --> 00:17:19.109 people who are suffering, right? To make them 00:17:19.109 --> 00:17:21.650 feel less isolated in their pain. Yeah, the commiseration 00:17:21.650 --> 00:17:23.970 we talked about. Today, their method has simply 00:17:23.970 --> 00:17:26.470 shifted. Instead of commiserating with their 00:17:26.470 --> 00:17:28.430 audience in the darkness, they're actively trying 00:17:28.430 --> 00:17:31.390 to pull people into the light. We mentioned their 00:17:31.390 --> 00:17:34.230 solo side projects earlier, like Scrim's 2024 00:17:34.230 --> 00:17:37.410 album, Lonely Boy, and Ruby's punk -infused releases 00:17:37.410 --> 00:17:40.250 under the name Duck Boy. Right, right. They have 00:17:40.250 --> 00:17:42.490 consistently used their music to process their 00:17:42.490 --> 00:17:45.690 exact state of mind in real time. This pivot 00:17:45.690 --> 00:17:48.529 isn't some calculated marketing strategy. It 00:17:48.529 --> 00:17:51.630 is the honest, documented result of surviving 00:17:51.630 --> 00:17:53.890 the abyss. Whether you share those religious 00:17:53.890 --> 00:17:55.650 beliefs or not, you just have to acknowledge 00:17:55.650 --> 00:17:58.430 the immense courage it takes to look at a multi 00:17:58.430 --> 00:18:01.309 -million dollar empire you built on a very specific 00:18:01.309 --> 00:18:04.210 dark image, realize that image is literally killing 00:18:04.210 --> 00:18:06.329 you, and decide to tear it down to rebuild it 00:18:06.329 --> 00:18:09.869 in the light. It takes guts. They risked alienating 00:18:09.869 --> 00:18:12.809 an incredibly dedicated cult -like fanbase because 00:18:12.809 --> 00:18:15.369 they chose their personal documented truth over 00:18:15.369 --> 00:18:18.170 maintaining a safe, consistent brand. It is one 00:18:18.170 --> 00:18:20.329 of the most remarkable journeys of survival in 00:18:20.329 --> 00:18:22.970 modern music. Two guys selling used furniture 00:18:22.970 --> 00:18:25.509 and waiting tables turned a desperate blood pact 00:18:25.509 --> 00:18:28.890 into a global phenomenon. They systematically 00:18:28.890 --> 00:18:31.549 hacked the internet's attention span, survived 00:18:31.549 --> 00:18:34.230 the deepest trenches of addiction, and completely 00:18:34.230 --> 00:18:37.029 inverted their worldview from satanic shock value 00:18:37.029 --> 00:18:40.130 to Christian apologetics, all while maintaining 00:18:40.130 --> 00:18:43.049 their status as undeniable underground legends. 00:18:43.390 --> 00:18:45.269 Which leaves us with a really fascinating dynamic 00:18:45.269 --> 00:18:47.750 to observe as they continue to tour and release 00:18:47.750 --> 00:18:50.390 music today. It raises an incredible question, 00:18:50.630 --> 00:18:52.609 one that goes far beyond the mechanics of the 00:18:52.609 --> 00:18:55.230 music industry and touches on the very nature 00:18:55.230 --> 00:18:58.529 of human connection. What's that? When an artist's 00:18:58.529 --> 00:19:00.430 entire foundational brand is built on shared 00:19:00.430 --> 00:19:03.349 trauma, alienation, and darkness, what happens 00:19:03.349 --> 00:19:05.730 to their art and their audience? When the artist 00:19:05.730 --> 00:19:08.450 actually heals, can a cult following survive 00:19:08.450 --> 00:19:11.609 the salvation of its leaders? Man, that is the 00:19:11.609 --> 00:19:14.390 perfect question to leave things on. Think about 00:19:14.390 --> 00:19:16.589 what happens when you strip away your own safety 00:19:16.589 --> 00:19:19.329 net, free fall into the dark, and somehow manage 00:19:19.329 --> 00:19:21.750 to build an entirely new foundation out of the 00:19:21.750 --> 00:19:24.269 ashes. Thank you for joining us on this deep 00:19:24.269 --> 00:19:26.609 dive. Keep questioning the narratives, look for 00:19:26.609 --> 00:19:28.690 the mechanics behind the art, and keep seeking 00:19:28.690 --> 00:19:31.029 out the incredible human stories behind the music 00:19:31.029 --> 00:19:32.789 you listen to. Until next time.